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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-22

---Logopened Tue May 22 00:00:52 2007
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01:18<boekabart>heh
01:18<boekabart>here, http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Mainline_Junctions, they write 'important: don't join before split.' but then, the example only has join before split in fact
01:19<boekabart>.. coming from left to right, that is
01:20<@peter1138>heh
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01:48<boekabart>Why is 'town names' language greyed out? Do I need something?
01:48<@peter1138>...
01:49<@peter1138>you can't change it during a game
01:49<boekabart>ah yes
01:49<boekabart>obviously, but why can't i change it in scenario editor before i built any city?
01:49<@peter1138>probably just to be awkward
01:50<boekabart>:)
01:50<boekabart>there is no technical reason for it to be disabled?
01:51<staniel|desktop>probably not?
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01:55<@Rubidium>boekabart: when no towns have been built there is no technical reason, but it's probably useless to have lots of code to allow that
01:56<@Rubidium>when towns are built there is a technical reason
01:57<boekabart>Rubidium: what is that reason?
01:57<@Rubidium>duplicate townnames
01:57<boekabart>that's not checked by iterating all existing towns on town generation?
01:58<@Rubidium>if you change the language when you already have built towns you can get duplicate names
01:59<@Rubidium>the 'language' of the town names that is
02:00<boekabart>ok, so there is no check on-generate-town, because it's not necessary as long as the 'language' doesn't change, right?
02:01<@peter1138>actually
02:01<@peter1138>i'm sure it does check
02:01<boekabart>let me check ;)
02:09<boekabart>town_cmd.cpp, line 1322 does the check
02:09<boekabart>Made a patch and tested, changing town name scheme in scenario editor doesn't seem to create any issue at all
02:10<staniel>now when you change it back does it give the same names back?
02:10<boekabart>nope
02:11<Jerub>sounds good. perhaps a 'randomise town names' button should be added :)
02:11<@peter1138>what might be nice is a "rerandomize name" button for towns, in the scenario editor
02:11<@peter1138>lol
02:11<boekabart>switching back and forth between english and dutch, every time doing generate many towns, doesn't even HIT conflicting town names
02:12<staniel>boekabart: no, but that could be why it wasnt implemented before
02:12<boekabart>(the 'check duplicate' function never sees a duplicate so far)
02:13<staniel>wow, its only been 2 beers and I want to do karaoke :(
02:14<boekabart>staniel: what time zone are you in??
02:14<staniel>gmt-5
02:14<staniel>so its just after 3 in hte morning... monday morning
02:14<staniel>err tuesday morning
02:14<boekabart>ah, EST
02:14<staniel>yep
02:15<staniel>its gotta be the dutch beer that does it
02:15<boekabart>here CET it's a little early for beer... heavily on coffee atm
02:15<staniel>im terrible with timezones - CET is where?
02:16<Noldo>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zone
02:16<boekabart>central europe :) (from spain/france east to er, hungary, poland)
02:16<staniel>thank you noldo
02:16<boekabart>actually it's western europe -/- UK and Portugal
02:16<staniel>I knew someone would do that to me
02:17<staniel>ahh
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02:20<staniel>screw the karaoke, im gonna get the air guitar out lol
02:20<boekabart>careful not to break the snares!
02:21<staniel>lol
02:21<boekabart>strings, i mean
02:21<Jerub>I mentioned it earlier, I'm wondering if it's possible to play openttd at all without the original graphics.
02:22<Jerub>The reason I'm asking is because I want to know if it will be possible to put openttd on the olpc.
02:22<@Rubidium>it is possible once someone has made a complete replacement pack for the graphics
02:22<staniel>Jerub: kinda new to it, but I saw a listing of graphics that needed to be done
02:22<Jerub>Rubidium: So is anything possible right now? is it possible to at least use placeholder graphics?
02:23<boekabart>afaik, there is not even a full placeholder gfx set
02:23<Jerub>yow, that bites.
02:24<staniel>theres alot of graphics
02:24<@peter1138>not the right graphics though
02:24<staniel>and probably not too many artists working on it
02:24<@peter1138>just random bits here and there
02:24<boekabart>it's easy to do though, just extract all the orig grf's to PCX files, overdraw them by hand, re-gen GRF
02:24<boekabart>just an awful lot of work
02:25<@peter1138>boekabart: not sure that counts as original ;p
02:25<staniel>doesn't that violate some copyright laws?
02:25<Jerub>the olpc project has to keep everything 100% above board.
02:25<Jerub>but it doesn't matter if the graphics are totally crap and there's only 1 train.
02:26<Jerub>just provided it can be demonstrated to actually work.
02:28<boekabart>peter1138: by overdraw I mean, not with the same colors
02:28<Jerub>So there isn't even a placeholder set. surely that shouldn't be too hard to put together...
02:28<Jerub>you just need to know all the correct dimensions.
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02:29<@peter1138>Jerub: you are aware that openttd was originally disassembled from ttd, yes?
02:30<Jerub>peter1138: disassembled. as in reverse engineered?
02:30<@peter1138>yeah
02:30<Jerub>is it legal?
02:30<@peter1138>who knows
02:30<boekabart>it was done in sweden
02:30<boekabart>not in the US
02:30<staniel>lol
02:31<staniel>oh I love different counties for their laws
02:31<Jerub>okay, dang. I'll drop an email to the FSF and get them to give me a legal opinion before I proceed.
02:31[~]staniel loves being canadian
02:32<@peter1138>fwiw, debian used to not want it, but i think it's in unstable now
02:32<@peter1138>dunno with repository though
02:32<@peter1138>maybe non-free ;)
02:32<ln->contrib
02:32<@peter1138>ahh
02:33<boekabart>Jerub: Here a zip with all the original sprites in convenient 800x800 gif files: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/AllOttdSprites.zip
02:33<staniel>heh, that rms program is totally gonna fail on my system lol
02:33<boekabart>go ahead, make everyones day!
02:33<ln->@kick boekabart
02:33<boekabart>hey
02:33<@peter1138>@kick boekabart ?
02:33<@peter1138>heh
02:33<staniel>laggy bot?
02:34<boekabart>it's gif files, without nfo. totally useless
02:34<boekabart>it's derived work only
02:34<@peter1138>staniel: no privs ;p
02:34<staniel>lol ahh
02:34<@peter1138>who uses gif these days anyway
02:34<staniel>png ftw!
02:34<boekabart>ah, yes, could have used 8bpp png too
02:34<staniel>I wonder if any digital cameras use png...
02:35<boekabart>png is not too fit for photos
02:35<boekabart>anyway, i chose gif over pcx.
02:35<@peter1138>staniel: doubt it, they prefer their lovely raw formats :o
02:35<staniel>with the quality of my camera, bmp would work :P
02:35<boekabart>pcx is soooo 1975
02:35<boekabart>staniel: that's why your camera probably has an even better (10bits per color) RAW format, right?
02:36<staniel>nah, its only jpg I think...
02:36<Jerub>is there a decent page showing what happened with the reverse engineering?
02:42<@peter1138>not that i know of
02:44<staniel>is there a limit of how many boats can be moured (sp?) to a dock?
02:45<@peter1138>no
02:45<@peter1138>not yet
02:45<staniel>there a debate on that?
02:45<boekabart>is that also the reason why a can station have more than 1 loading dock for trucks, but not more than 1 dock ( since there's no need for that )?
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02:50<staniel>what the hell
02:51<staniel>thats the 3rd tim that damn jet has killed that oil refinery
02:56<boekabart>TrueBrain: I think I found a bug in 16x zoom: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/zoom_16x_bug.png
02:57<boekabart>do you see those pixels on the bottom edges ? after zooming, they are black, so they are not drawn apparently.
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03:00<boekabart>TrueBrain: Easier to see, dragged a red dialog over it so show which pixels are never drawn: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/zoom16x_bug_red.png
03:02<boekabart>BTW on my PC, 16x zoom on a 2048x2048 map scrolls perfectly fine on 1280x1024 resolution. PC: p4 2.4ghz
03:11<@peter1138>heh
03:11<@peter1138>if only :p
03:12<@peter1138>is it ok at 8x?
03:12<boekabart>yes
03:12<@peter1138>and indeed 2x or 4x
03:12<boekabart>just double checked that
03:12<@peter1138>or even 1x, hehe
03:12<boekabart>made bugreport on http://bugs.openttd.org/task/794
03:12<@peter1138>yes, i saw
03:12<boekabart>ok
03:12<@peter1138>#openttd.notice is useful ;)
03:13<@peter1138>ok, do i put up with windows being horribly slow here, or shall i boot from this ubuntu live cd i burnt this morning...
03:15<boekabart>i don't think it's a windows problem actually
03:15<boekabart>i think it's a blitter problem in fact
03:17<@peter1138>who ever said it was a windows problem?
03:18<@Rubidium>boekabart did
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03:25<boekabart>well I can only confirm it on windows
03:33<@peter1138>oic
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03:39<Kjetil>Good morning
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04:06<kornerr>hi
04:08<kornerr>cu
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05:37<@peter1138>right... who's used qemu?
05:37<Kjetil>!
05:37<@peter1138>what?
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05:38<Kjetil>If you refer to general use.. I have used it
05:38<@peter1138>is it possible to use a real harddrive instead of a file?
05:38<@peter1138>ah, yes, with permissions *doh*
05:39<Kjetil>Isn't a harddrive a file i *nix ? :P
05:39<Kjetil>in*
05:39<@peter1138>yes, just permissions
05:39<@peter1138>shame the image doesn't boot :/
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05:41<@peter1138>mup.sys :/
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07:27<yeti_>hi :)
07:27<yeti_>is the svn server down?
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07:31<boekabart>svn is indeed down it seems
07:32<boekabart>and truelight/truebrain is offline also
07:36<SpComb>the eweka network is down or somesuch
07:38<@orudge>Indeed
07:38<@orudge>tis a bit annoying, it's been good recently
07:38<@orudge>usually the outages aren't too long...
07:39<@orudge>so I hope they ought to have it fixed within 10 minutes or so
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07:42<Digitalfox>orudge: is tt forums also affected?? I can't access it..
07:44<boekabart>probably everything
07:44<SpComb>except zernebok.com :P
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07:45<@orudge>Yes, Digitalfox
07:45<@orudge>everything except aslan and phoenix.zernebok.com;p
07:45<Digitalfox>ok
07:47<Digitalfox>I didn't imagine almost all comunity sites were on the same provider :|
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07:48<@orudge>Well, not quite all... but all of the OpenTTD and tt-forums stuff is in the same datacentre, yes
07:48<@orudge>because it's us who pays for it all
07:48<boekabart>how does one donate, actually?
07:49<@orudge>I'd link to the site, but, well...
07:50<@orudge>but anyway, PayPal is the best way
07:50<@orudge>but you can also donate in a few other ways
07:51<ln->(if you are a female?)
07:51<Digitalfox>orudge: Do you have a estimated price you pay for all this each year?
07:52<@orudge>for tt-forums it's probably around 1000 eur/year or so, TL also pays a fair bit towards it
07:53<@orudge>ln-: are you? :p
07:53<ln->nope
07:53<ln->and i don't think i'll ever be.
07:54<ln->btw, "you" in the sentence was in the meaning "one".
07:54<ln->like above
07:54<@orudge>I figured that, yes
07:54<Digitalfox>Shit 1000€?? How do you 2 mqnqge to pay all this?? Sure there are donations, but do they even take care of 50% ?
07:54<@orudge>but I just thought I'd ask
07:54<@orudge>The donations do help cover it
07:54<@orudge>and the rest is sponsored by my company, and his
07:54<@orudge>and/or my own pocket
07:55<Digitalfox>Well.. just two words for you.. THANK YOU
07:55<@orudge>No worries, heh
07:55<@orudge>it's just annoying when it goes down...
07:56<Digitalfox>yeah
07:56<boekabart>merci beaucoup, danke schon, bedankt, grazie, multumesc!
07:56<boekabart>gracias too..
07:56<Digitalfox>obrigado
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07:57<@orudge>http://www.ams-ix.net/technical/stats/ <-- see the little blip on the graph at the end?
07:57<@orudge>that's eweka being dow
07:57<@orudge>n
07:57<@orudge>and it's still down, grr
07:58<boekabart>eweka is big?
07:59<@orudge>It is pretty big
07:59<@orudge>it seems only part of eweka is down, though
07:59<@orudge>conveniently enough the part we're on
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08:02<@orudge>aha
08:02<@orudge>they're back
08:02<Digitalfox>In the daily graph from 04 to 08 it seems there webstes stop having traffic
08:03<Digitalfox>+websites
08:03<SpComb>Digitalfox: note the scale on the left side
08:03<SpComb>100Gbit/s is the bottom of the graph
08:03<SpComb>250Gbit/s is the top
08:04<SpComb>but yes, it doubles towards the late afternoon/evening european time
08:04<boekabart>well it IS the biggest IX on the planet, isn't it?
08:04<Digitalfox>oh yeah you're right, but even so the trafic does became a really lot less
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08:05<boekabart>and we're back?
08:05<Digitalfox>It looks the pack time is 9PM
08:05<@orudge>we're hopefully back
08:05<Digitalfox>*peak
08:05<Digitalfox>nice
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08:45<yeti_>@ams-ix: hmmm... 250Gbit/s is really a lot, but i guess the traffic on "really big" points like the europe-US overseas line is much higher, no? do you know where to find out about traffic totals on trancontinental lines?
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10:48<Ailure>neat
10:48<Ailure>didn't notice there was new zoom levels XD
10:48<@peter1138>slow!
10:48<Ailure>a whole 256x256 map fits on the new zoom levels
10:48<Ailure>heh
10:49<Ailure>it only lags if I scroll fast
10:49[~]peter1138 'accidentally' checks out trunk on his 'new' desktop
10:49<hylje>:o
10:50<TrueBrain>peter1138: with what speed? :p (that 'new' desktop that is)
10:51<Ailure>although due to lost detail
10:51<Ailure>water looks like blinking blue globs
10:52<Ailure>glowing in that radioactive way
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10:53<Ailure>haha
10:53<Ailure>sounds still play as loud too
10:53<hylje>:p
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10:54<Ailure>How many samples can openTTD play at once?
10:54<Ailure>heh
10:54<Ailure>haha
10:54<Ailure>in a snowmap there's windsounds constantly
10:54<Tefad>enough to blow your speakers
10:54<Ailure>and the last sample dosen't even get time to stop before it starts another
10:55<Ailure>hmm
10:55<Ailure>ah yeah
10:55<Ailure>xD
10:55<Ailure>starting 30 boats at once
10:55<Ailure>is ouch
10:55<@peter1138>TrueBrain: athlon 2400 iirc
10:55<Tefad>ehehehehe.
10:55<@peter1138>TrueBrain: it's not new, it's just running linux instead of windows, heh
10:57<@peter1138>Ailure: 8
10:57<Ailure>heh
10:57<Ailure>still
10:57<Ailure>eight samples at once
10:57<Ailure>of the same sound
10:57<Ailure>sounds terrible :p
10:58<Tefad>it doesn't divide the signal correctly or something
10:58<Tefad>to avoid clipping.. bad algorithm or something
10:58[~]Tefad shrugs
11:00<Ailure>yeah it adds the signal to each other or osmething
11:00<Ailure>xD
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11:15<yeti_>are ttdpatch and openttd similar in their codebase or are they completely different?
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11:20<@Rubidium>grr...
11:20<yeti_>huh?
11:20<@Rubidium>stupid bounding boxes
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11:39<yeti_>bounding boxes in LaTeX/postscript/pdf? yep, that's pretty stupid stuff
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11:57<Eddi|zuHause2>he probably means bounding boxex in ottd
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11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>as to your question, ttdp and ottd are completely different projects, ttdp is written in assembler, and does not contain any code from the original game, while ottd is based on the original game code, ported to C(++)
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12:03<TrueBrain>"and does not contain any code from the original game" <- misleading :s
12:03<@peter1138>heh
12:03<@peter1138>yeah
12:04<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i do not really know anything about the structure of ttdp :p
12:04<TrueBrain>sometimes it is better to not talk, than to talk gibberish :)
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13:16<jaims>hi all
13:17<jaims>one question
13:17<jaims>i've just installed the deb package of open ttd
13:17<jaims>but doesn't start. Reason: no sample.cat
13:17<@peter1138>solution: obtain sample.cat
13:17<jaims>;-)
13:17<jaims>right
13:18<jaims>in the same place where i downloaded openttd?
13:18<HMage>no, you must own original transport tycoon deluxe
13:18<jaims>aha
13:18<jaims>ok
13:18<jaims>that's what i was thinking...
13:19<jaims>ok, thanks a lot
13:19<@peter1138>fcvo own, heh
13:19<jaims>just wanted to make sure
13:19<jaims>bye all, and thanks
13:19<@peter1138>bye
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13:20<@peter1138>mmm'kay
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13:50<Wolf01>hello
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13:55<Wolf01>is here somebody good with ssh tunnels?
13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>is that where trains go "toot toot"?
13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>:p
13:55<Wolf01>yes those
13:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i've never successfully used one...
13:57<Wolf01>i wanted to know how to connect to the web through an ssh tunnel, i can connect at all what i want (from work office i use it for irc)
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13:59<Wolf01>maybe if i don't specify the address before :80
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14:03<Wolf01>no, blank page :\
14:04<blathijs>Wolf01: Do you want to connect to a specific webserver through an ssh tunnel?
14:04<blathijs>Wolf01: Or to the entire internet using just one tunnel?
14:04<Wolf01>the second, the first i'm already able to do it :P
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14:07<Wolf01>i use puttyssh
14:09<blathijs>I'm not sure that ssh by itself can do that
14:09<blathijs>For the other end of the tunnel has no way of knowing where to connect to
14:10<Wolf01>i might need a proxy server
14:10<blathijs>yes, that would do the trick
14:10<blathijs>set up a simple proxy at the server end and connect your ssh tunnel to that
14:14<Wolf01>i have it already installed, but i never knew how to use it for http, i always used it for pop3 and smtp because of some old connection problems
14:29<blathijs>it's a SOCKS proxy then, I assume?
14:29<Wolf01>yes
14:31<Wolf01>all what it does now is to show my webserver homepage
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14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9898 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command.h group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp): (log message trimmed)
14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r9874): Many...
14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Group protection status wasn't changed via a command.
14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Group renaming didn't check group owner (and in fact changed the owner,
14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: just like renaming a sign...).
14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Added owner checks to other group commands.
14:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Invalidate window data after the command has been completed instead of after
14:49<@peter1138></spam>
14:50<boekabart>peter1138: About that patch that enables town name scheme changing in scenario editor....
14:50<boekabart>what do the rest of the devs think of it?
14:53<@peter1138>no idea. did you ask any?
14:53<@Rubidium>boekabart: as I said before, that could give duplicate names
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14:55<Wolf01>what about the adjoin stations patch instead?
14:56<@Rubidium>boekabart: just make a 2048x2048 map with lots and lots of towns in English, then change the language to Spanish
14:56<boekabart>Rubidium: No it can't
14:56<boekabart>i checked
14:57<boekabart>1) there is a check fn that checks dup names and 2) I did exactly that and the check fn didn't even ever 'hit' a dup
14:57<@Rubidium>boekabart: did you do the scenario I just gave you?
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14:58<@Rubidium>anyway, post me a link to the diff and I'll show you a savegame with duplicate names
14:58<boekabart>gave me?
14:58<@Rubidium>before you said: "Rubidium: No it can't"
14:59<@peter1138>disallow changing it if there are any towns
14:59<@peter1138>problem solved
15:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i agree... it's the same with changing road traffic side...
15:02<boekabart>that is done with AnyRoadVehiclesBuilt()
15:02<boekabart>Diff: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/TownNameLanguageInScenarioEditor_r9.diff
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15:06<@peter1138>i don't see a check for number of towns
15:08<boekabart>number, no, the dup-check IS already in the GenerateTownName function
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15:19<@peter1138>yes
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15:19<@peter1138>you're missing the point
15:20<boekabart>i'm afraid so
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15:20<+glx>townnames are just an int
15:20<boekabart>..which describes a combination of town-name-parts, right?
15:20<boekabart>a concatenation, in fact
15:21<+glx>different values can give the same name in a given language
15:21<@peter1138>not exactly, it's effectively a random seed
15:21<@peter1138>value, anyway
15:23<boekabart>but it seems a town in the end has a name which is a char*
15:23<boekabart>and those are dup-checked
15:23<boekabart>that's what I understand from the code
15:23<@peter1138>they're dup-checked... when a new town is created
15:24<hylje>you can create a new town midgame?
15:24<@peter1138>so if you have a dozen towns, then change the language, you could end up with a dozen towns with the same name
15:24<@Bjarni>no
15:24<@peter1138>(unlikely, but it's possible)
15:24<@peter1138>hylje: scenario editor
15:24<boekabart>but
15:24<boekabart>when changing the lang
15:24<Eddi|zuHause2>hylje: in the scenario editor you can, and there is a fund town patch
15:24<boekabart>the names didn't change of the existing towns?!
15:25<+glx>save and reload: they'll change
15:26<boekabart>aha, the names aren't saved in the savegame, just the int? ok then I stand corrected
15:26<boekabart>and then the IsAnyTownBuilt() check should be added
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15:40<Wolf01>'night
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15:42<Eddi|zuHause2>another option you could do would be to completely regenerate the names of all existing towns
15:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: and remove towns that it can't find a new name for?
15:44<Eddi|zuHause2>errr... :p
15:46<boekabart>or change savegame so it includes townname as string?
15:46<boekabart>what's actually wrong with that
15:47<boekabart>apart from bigger savegame
15:47<boekabart>i guess the same int is used in industries too? or is that checked runtime, closest town->name ?
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16:02<Eddi|zuHause2>err, i'd guess the industry stores a town ID
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>(i.e. a different int)
16:04<boekabart>so storing town name string in savegame wouldn't be impossible at all i guess
16:05<boekabart>- but the functionality to be able to change town name languages in scenario editor isn't worth that type of change imho -
16:07<boekabart>glx: They don't change on load
16:09<boekabart>The check is there
16:09<boekabart>I'm positive the diff is fine
16:10<boekabart>Here is a scenario to 'prove' it: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/TownNameLangs.scn
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16:21<boekabart>Rubidium: I did all the tests you told me to, and they all work fine
16:21<boekabart>save/quit/load : names are preserved fine
16:22<boekabart>2k x 2k map, many english, many dutch, many english, many romanian, many english : during generation, it finds conflicts and skips those, resulting scn doesn't seem to have conflicting names in it
16:22<boekabart>the 2k x 2k map: http://boekabart.googlepages.com/TownsInThreeLangs.scn
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16:25<boekabart>Rubidium: just checked that scn in play-mode, town directory doesn't show any dups
16:25<boekabart>world pop. 2 million :0
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16:33<boekabart>anyway, Rubidium, other devs: i posted the whole thing on the forum http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=588948#588948
16:34<boekabart>goodnight
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16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r9899 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-22 23:52:38
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 32 fixed by WhiteRabbit (32)
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 25 fixed by tucalipe (25)
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 6 fixed by thetitan (6)
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 32 fixed, 21 changed by ThomasA (53)
16:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 32 fixed, 3 changed by habell (35)
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17:03<mikk36[EST]>any of you guys watch 'Heroes' ?
17:04|-|mikk36[EST] changed nick to mikk36
17:04<Sionide>mikk36, me
17:04<mikk36>http://votepetrelli.com
17:04<mikk36>:P
17:04<Sionide>er yeah
17:04<mikk36>and a lot more :P
17:04<Sionide>www.lasvegasniki.com
17:04<mikk36>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_360_experience
17:04<Sionide>http://www.heroeswiki.com/
17:06<mikk36>how many seasons do you think there'll be ?
17:08<Sionide>4
17:09<Eddi|zuHause2>8
17:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i so had to laugh at the cliffhanger :p
17:09<mikk36>September 25, 10:29 PM
17:09<mikk36>How many seasons/scripts are plotted out?
17:09<mikk36>We have the first season mapped out in detail. Less so in the second season, but we have talked about where the show goes up to five seasons. That being said, I have learned that you really have to be open to letting a show take you where it wants to go. It is a living, breathing organism and it will speak to you if you listen.
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17:10<Eddi|zuHause2>it's so totally my new favourite series :)
17:10<Sionide>it's the most watched tv show amongst american 18-30 year olds
17:10<mikk36>been for months for me :)
17:10<Sionide>or some such statistic, can't remember it exactly
17:11<mikk36>and it broke 5 year-record too :P
17:11<Sionide>it is very good
17:11<mikk36>with it's first episode
17:11<Sionide>way better than crappy lost
17:11<mikk36>When the series premiered in the United States, it was the night's most-watched program among adults aged 18-49, attracting 14.3 million viewers overall and receiving the highest rating for any NBC drama premiere in five years.
17:11<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not hard to beat NBC ratings :p
17:11<mikk36>The second season of Heroes will consist of 24 episodes,[6] and the first season of new spinoff Heroes: Origins will include 6 episodes.[7]
17:12<mikk36>hmm, what's fox' record ?
17:12<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, i know about the planned spinoff
17:12<Sionide>should be awesome
17:12<mikk36>:)
17:12<Sionide>the level of interactivity in the show has been huge
17:12<mikk36>can't wait :P
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17:13<mikk36>and i love hdtv :P
17:13<Sionide>for example, the prima tech paper company's website having confidential files on, if you complete the interview process to become an employee
17:13<mikk36>too beautiful to look :P
17:13<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm still not over the thing with the license plate :p
17:13<mikk36>license plate ?
17:13<Sionide>mikk36, i stayed up all night last night to watch the finale, that's dedication for you
17:13<mikk36>hehe
17:13<mikk36>well, i don't live in the us nor canada
17:14<Sionide>i'm in the uk
17:14<mikk36>i watch it the next day here (shows "air" to torrents at ~5am)
17:14<Eddi|zuHause2>nobody of us is :p
17:14<mikk36>i don't have access to NBC either
17:14<Sionide>the show airs 2:00am local time, i had it downloaded by half 3
17:14<mikk36>which vers ?
17:14<mikk36>(MB ?)
17:14<Sionide>350
17:14<mikk36>bah :P
17:14<mikk36>i enjoyed the 1.1GB one :)
17:15<Sionide>pointless
17:15<mikk36>nah it aint
17:15<Sionide>on my laptop screen it is
17:15<mikk36>hehe
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it takes me 6-8 hours to get the 350MB version
17:15<mikk36>i watch it on my 17'' LCd
17:15<mikk36>o.O
17:15<mikk36>1.5 hours to get 1.1GB one
17:15<mikk36>here
17:15<Sionide>20 mins, 350mb
17:15<mikk36>comes in full speed from torrent
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17:15<mikk36>~215KB/s
17:16<mikk36>although, that is totally offtopic from the series :P
17:16<Sionide>there was a poll on facebook for who was going to stop sylar
17:16<Sionide>a little while ago
17:16<mikk36>well, hiro didn't do it alone :)
17:16<Sionide></spoilers>
17:16<Eddi|zuHause2>"22.05.07 04:25 - Filter Matched 'Heroes' Type: TVShow - Ep 1x23"
17:16<Sionide>for those who haven't yet seen it
17:16<mikk36>and the pic in the comic book was several episodes ago already
17:17<Eddi|zuHause2>"Download for: 6h 59m"
17:18<mikk36>anyway, i should go to sleep now
17:18<mikk36>01:18
17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>you should __not__ tell plot details in a public channel
17:18<mikk36>Eddi|zuHause2, good point :)
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17:19<mikk36>but... how could the comic book be wrong ? :D seems that isaac didn't see the future correctly ? :D
17:20<Eddi|zuHause2>"in constant flow the future is" [Yoda]
17:20<mikk36>:)
17:20<Eddi|zuHause2>(the actual phrase might be different)
17:20<mikk36>ever-changing
17:20<Eddi|zuHause2>(i never saw it in english)
17:21<mikk36>Always in motion, is the future
17:21<mikk36>that's the correct one
17:22<mikk36>http://fragme.blogspot.com/2006/10/star-wars-yoda-quotes.html
17:22<ln->what's the maximum tolerated episode number of Lost that can be discussed here?
17:23<mikk36>ok, good night :)
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>i have seen up to 3x21
17:26<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, i wanted to find out what this "Lost - The Answers" is about...
17:27<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is not about what the people in the active discussion talk about, the problem are the unsuspecting visitors that might read the log later
17:27<Eddi|zuHause2>in german free tv, season 3 did not even start yet
17:28<ln->the same problem here
17:28<ln->but i've seen up to 3x12
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17:31<Eddi|zuHause2>you do not ever want to have a lost spoiler... believe me
17:31<ln->i believe
17:32<ln->most likely finnish tv won't start showing season 3 until october november..
17:32<ln->+or
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, weird, apparently, ProSieben suspends broadcasting Desperate Housewives season 3, but not Grey's Anatomy season 3 (they started both season 3 right after season 2, without break)
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18:01<Haclet>Hi gays
18:01<Haclet>I just update last version OTTD from svn.
18:02|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-9-219.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
18:03<Haclet>And I am suprise - a lot changes, espesially I saw group in vechicles and colors for earn by vechicles
18:03<Haclet>The color how much train/bus earn each yeat (green, red) can be switch off?
18:04<Haclet>On my monitor in 1024x764 I see nothing .:) When the color was black - that was OK for me :)
18:05<@Rubidium>Haclet: you can turn the new vehicle list thing off in the gui
18:05<@Rubidium>in the patches, under interface
18:06<Haclet>Wait - I'll check
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18:08<Haclet>Ups :) I haven't seen it before :) I checked but I miss it :) Is on the end of the list :)
18:08<Haclet>Rubidium: Are you developer of OTTD ?
18:15<Eddi|zuHause2>in windows, you can pres Ctrl+D, then everything appears twice as big (if you have bad eyes :p)
18:16<Haclet>thx - but I am using linux
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>there exists a patch that also does that in linux, but it was not included in trunk
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i believe it was done by zevensoft
18:17<Haclet>Rubidium: Sorki for my question - I just read first line in variable.h :)
18:17<Haclet>You are developer ;) :) ;) :/
18:17<Haclet>I have an another question
18:17<+tokai>640x480 fullscreen on a 20" has nice magnification effect too.
18:18<Haclet>I am tring make my own new window in game - I greated widget, I added close button, title pannel,
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>i loathe switching resolutions, it tends to mess everything up
18:18<+tokai>Eddi|zuHause2: depends on the OS.
18:18<Haclet>And everything look nice - my window appears but when I am clicking to close button - nothing is happen
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>especially when applications exit abnormally
18:19<+tokai>Haclet: i guess u need to handle the close event and close the window manually.
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>tokai: that happened on every OS i tried
18:19<Haclet>and when I quit from game - I have segmentation error
18:20<+tokai>Eddi|zuHause2: on MorphOS you actually have 2 real screens in that case. which u can easily switch.. the desktop screen doesn't mess up then.
18:20<Haclet>I newbie in OTTD code - but I trying do it execly like another window are open,
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18:21<Haclet>I know there is some events - like WE_PAINT, WE_CLICK but I didn't find out how execly does it work :)
18:22<Haclet>Hmm - about screens - I have old monitor - But I would like to see screenshot from 20'' in 1024x768 :)
18:22<Haclet>Have anyone ?
18:23<Haclet>Rubidium: Are there still ?
18:23<+tokai>nope, my screen is bigger.
18:23<Haclet>tokai: what do U mean ?
18:23<+tokai>Haclet: i only can provide 21.3" WS screenshot ;)
18:23<+tokai>(aka 1680x1050)
18:24<+tokai>anyway.. time for sleep.
18:24<Eddi|zuHause2>i only have 1600x1200 screenshots
18:24<Haclet>tokai: could you give me some like, plase - to see it :)
18:25<Haclet>okej okej - I ment that I would like to see nice screenshots in high resolutions :) Have anyone in some website ?
18:25<Haclet>:)
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png
18:27<Haclet>Thx :)
18:27<@Rubidium>Haclet: there are many causes why it doesn't work/segfault and I don't like guessing
18:27<+tokai>http://binaryriot.dyndns.org/~tokai/1964.png
18:27<@Rubidium>nor do I have a lot of time
18:28<Eddi|zuHause2>i have some more screenshots, but i don't feel like finding out the names right now
18:28<+tokai>Eddi|zuHause2: safari doesn't like your URLs ;)
18:29<+tokai>cuts in front of the comma
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>what's wrong with them?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>aha
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>bad luck :p
18:29<Haclet>Rubidium: I don't ask to guess - but I thought, that I can create Window like others, but I was suprise.. I know I miss something - but at this moment I don't know what
18:29<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't remember the ascii code of the comma right now
18:30<Haclet>Nice screenshots :)
18:30<Haclet>But are you playing with this resolution - or you just made screenshot :)
18:30<+tokai>unicode is 2c
18:31<+tokai>should be identical to ascii AFAIR
18:31<Haclet>I couldn't play with this resolutions ;)
18:31<Haclet>I see nothing ;) [I have bad eyes :)]
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i play with this resolution
18:31<Eddi|zuHause2>but often i'd switch to Ctrl+D
18:31<Haclet>Hehe :)
18:31<+tokai>Haclet: sounds like u run the wrong resolution on your monitor
18:32<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd love separate x 1/2 zoom and gui-zoom
18:32<Haclet>tokai: no - I have old monitor ;) Compaq S510 :)
18:32<Haclet>And when I switch on 1024x768 It olmost OK - but small text is not OK :)
18:33<Eddi|zuHause2>i have a 21" tube monitor
18:33<+tokai>Haclet: whats that 15"?
18:33<Haclet>yeap :(
18:33<+tokai>+?
18:33<+tokai>well.. 800x600 is optimal resolution then
18:34<Haclet>I know :)
18:34<Eddi|zuHause2>i used to have a 14" monitor on 1280x960
18:34<+tokai>i know crazy ppl.. who run 1600x1200 on 17" ;)
18:34<Haclet>Tell me gays... When the game is in multiplayer mode - and noone is playing - the time goes normally, right?
18:34[~]HMage is not gay :)
18:34<+tokai>Eddi|zuHause2: crazy.
18:34<Haclet>Sorki :)
18:34<Eddi|zuHause2>Haclet: small tip: it's "guys", not "gays"
18:35<+tokai>gays just means happy ppl, no ?:)
18:35<HMage>lol
18:35<Haclet>gays = OTTD Comunity :)
18:35<HMage>omg
18:35<+tokai>http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay
18:36<Haclet>Okej - my mistake :)
18:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Haclet: there's an option to pause the server if there are less than x clients
18:36<Haclet>Hej - I apologise for this word ;)
18:37<Haclet>My english is not good sometimes. In normal speaking (not writting) sometimes people says "G...s" - but I though I wrote correct - but I made biiig mistake ...
18:38<HMage>Haclet: don't worry, we understood what you wanted to say, I just couldn't resist to have some fun along the way ;)
18:38<Haclet>HMage: It's OK - I am still improving my english skills ;)
18:38<Haclet>HMage: so how should be correct write ;)
18:39<+tokai>Only homophobias were offended.
18:40[~]Eddi|zuHause2 was offended :p
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18:40<Haclet>Eddi|zuHause2: I thougt about option - for example - server is running, people can play, time goes noramlly, when all players quit - the time stop, and will start again when players from all company will connect
18:40<Haclet>What do U think ?
18:40<Eddi|zuHause2>that is exactly what it already does
18:40<HMage>well, back to your question, Haclet, the time runs there as usual, unless you configure the server to pause the game with no clients
18:41<Haclet>Eddi|zuHause2: really :) Ups I have some good idea :) :)
18:42<HMage>you can: 1) edit your .cfg file, find a line with 'min_players', and change from 0 to 1 or 2, or more :)
18:42<HMage>2) open up console on server and write 'min_players 1', you can change 1 to another number.
18:42<Haclet>HMage: echhh - so thats mean I have to learn a lot about OTTD - I tried found this future but I didn't. :/
18:43<Haclet>HMage: But this give only minimum players for start game, right?
18:43<Haclet>But - for example you have below situation:
18:44<HMage>Haclet: this option is not in menu, you have to configure it via console on server or config file. This is a minimum number of players when the game will be unpaused.
18:44<Haclet>4 players are playing, 2 companies... - there are quit (for example min players are set to 2)
18:45<HMage>If you already know that all those 4 players are going to player there, then set min_players to 4.
18:45<HMage>are going to play*
18:45<Haclet>And now 2 players are connecting but in one company - And game will start, right? But
18:46<Haclet>Yes - I understand - but my question is - is there in OTTD option which allow only start game when player connect with difrent comany
18:46<+glx>yes even if they are in the same company the unpause limit is reached so the server unpauses
18:46<Haclet>companies ;)
18:46<Haclet>thx glx
18:46<Eddi|zuHause2>i am always tempted to scroll my own screenshots :p
18:47<+glx>me too ;)
18:47<HMage>Haclet: I'm not a developer, but I see no reason. The whole idea of building a company is that it will make profit even when nobody manages it.
18:47<+glx>but it opens a popup when I do that
18:47<Haclet>And tell me - how can become OTTD developer ? What is minimal requitments?
18:47<Haclet>HMage: You are right?
18:48<Haclet>!
18:48<Sionide>Haclet, being able to code an effective patch which does something useful
18:48<Eddi|zuHause2>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%204.%20Sep%201925.png
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18:48<Haclet>Sionide: But I have a lot of ideas, but where Can I check what is useful?
18:49<Sionide>can you code C++?
18:49<Haclet>HMage: Yes - but for example I can play ones on week
18:49<Sionide>(i think it's c++ or maybe c)
18:49<Haclet>Sionide: Not beginer, not master - but intermidate with STL
18:49<Sionide>depends on your ideas then i suppose
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18:50<Haclet>HMage: and somebody else can play more often - And he can growing his comapny - and mine is stady until I start play
18:50<Haclet>HMage: I though about option for server - you can switch on or off it :)
18:51<Eddi|zuHause2>you can always manually pause the server
18:51<Haclet>Sionide: thx
18:52<Haclet>Eddi|zuHause2: right, if you have access to it.
18:52<HMage>Haclet: In my opinion, even if someone becomes more competetive than your company, you'll have to catch up like in real world. That's the challenge.
18:53<HMage>competitive*
18:53<Sionide>Haclet, a web front end to a server would be quite cool perhaps
18:53<Haclet>HMage: I agree with you - its good chalange.
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18:54<Haclet>HMage: It was just my idea and question, and now I have point of view from you, and is not like mine - thats is OK.
18:54<Haclet>Sionide: Could you arond - I didn't understand (not enough english skills :P)
18:55<Haclet>HMage: I though that will be good option for server - but another give me some advices which I can do at this time
18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>Haclet: of course you have to have access to the server, you can hardly tell people on other people's servers when to not play the game
18:56<Haclet>Eddi|zuHause2: You are defenetly right.
18:57<HMage>if it's your server and you know everyone you're playing with, just pause the game and communicate with other players so all of you can continue later
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18:57<Haclet>HMage: right! The simple way is the best way.
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18:58<HMage>and then later, start the server, pause it if it's not, wait until everyone joins, then unpause
18:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you can also make cron jobs to pause and unpause the game at certain times
18:59<Haclet>Yes, but if I understand correctly. The first client who will connect to server - can be administaror of server, right?
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>so you can run a server that only unpauses on saturday and sunday, or only on the evenings of weekdays, or similar
18:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think so
19:00<Haclet>Eddi|zuHause2: wait, how - can I send message to server - if is running ?
19:00<+glx>using rcon
19:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never run a server, but brianetta has an autopilot, that can do a lot of stuff from remote
19:00<+glx>but you need the password
19:01<HMage>Haclet: the administrator of the server is the person who starts the server.
19:02<Haclet>glx: explain me, please - it is extended software - or with source ?
19:02<+glx>it's a console command of openttd
19:03<HMage>unfortunately I've got to go, have fun everyone :)
19:03|-|HMage changed nick to HMage`afk
19:03<Haclet>OK - but how can I use cron to run rcon - if rcon required console working under OTTD ?
19:04<Haclet>HMage`afk: bye - and thanks :)
19:04<Haclet>Is time to go for me too.
19:04<Haclet>I will apear ASAP here :)
19:05<Haclet>So thank you everybody for help and nice answers.
19:05<Haclet>See you sortly.
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19:34<Jerub>I tried playing on Hard this morning, and discovered that a max loan of 100,000 is actually quite hard.
19:34<Jerub>Really need to do things that generate instant profits.
19:34<Jerub>Any recommendations?
19:35<+glx>coal line
19:36<Jerub>I made the mistake of not leaving enough money for my locos when i did coal lines, maybe if I only did 1 train...
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20:02<Nigel_>Jerub: one train to start with, then expand
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20:16<Frostregen>maybe point-to-point with 1 loco first
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20:16<Frostregen>then expand to 2 way traffic, and add other locos
20:22<+glx>and repay loan as fast as you can
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---Logclosed Wed May 23 00:00:26 2007