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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-23

---Logopened Wed May 23 00:00:26 2007
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03:56<boekabart>Rubidium: did you get a chance to check those town-name scenarios? I've been searching a bit more, but can't find a reason why it would go wrong....
04:06<@peter1138>turns out the town name type (language) is stored for each town
04:06<@peter1138>so you can infact have multiple languages in a game...
04:07<@peter1138>do you fancy doing some gui work?
04:07<boekabart>yes, multiple countries
04:07<boekabart>me, gui work?
04:07<@peter1138>an additional button to give a name a new randomized name
04:07<boekabart>eh. by the by, did you see the ttdpatch rivers thing?
04:07<@peter1138>for the scenario editor
04:07<@peter1138>yes, of course
04:08<@peter1138>you started, they started, they finished, you didn't ;p
04:08<boekabart>They finished??
04:08<@peter1138>well it's in the game
04:08|-|Jezral changed nick to TinoDidriksen
04:08<@peter1138>i understand there were a couple of bugs...
04:08<boekabart>They replaced canal gfx with river gfx
04:08<boekabart>that's all. And I didn't find the grf even
04:09<boekabart>implementation: if tileheight>sealevel { dont_flood }
04:09<@peter1138>well i doubt it works the same as your intentions
04:09<@peter1138>but to a player... 'rivers!'
04:09<boekabart>it's just an alternative canal gfx
04:09<@peter1138>what's your status? :)
04:10<boekabart>boss chasing me. no time.
04:11<@peter1138>someone tried to put a transaction through for that amount...
04:11<@Rubidium>how many times the GDP of the US is that?
04:12<Sionide>probably wouldn't let you do it
04:12<Sionide>but the exchange is roughly 2 ish so that's probably $100,000,000,000,000
04:12<@peter1138>97,302,149,171,609.27 USD
04:12<boekabart>which is about 7 times US GDP
04:12<Tefad>100 trillion eh?
04:12<@peter1138>it does it...
04:12<@peter1138>no, billion
04:12<Tefad>US trillion
04:13<boekabart>ne, 100.000 billion
04:13[~]Tefad shakes fists at those who make large numbers complicated
04:13<Sionide>peter1138, a uk 100 billion?
04:13<Sionide>Tefad, the US system doesn't make any sense at all
04:13<Tefad>makes sense to me
04:13[~]Tefad shrugs
04:13<Sionide>cos it changes when you get to a billion, for no reason
04:14<Tefad>ho so?
04:14<Tefad>1e3 thousand, 1e6 million 1e9 billion 1e12 trillion
04:14<Sionide>a uk billion, is a million million
04:15<Tefad>see that makes no sense to me
04:15<TrueBrain>isn't it an EU thingy? :)
04:15<Tefad>it's a non north america thing
04:15<Sionide>a thousand thousand is a 1,000,000...
04:15<Tefad>a million.
04:16<Sionide>thousand thousand = million. million million = billion.
04:16<Sionide>that makes sense
04:16<Sionide>a US thousand million, is a billion
04:16<Tefad>thousand thousand = million, thousand thousand thousdant is a billion, thousand thousand thousand thousand is a trillion.
04:16<Tefad>and i knew i'd screw one of those up.
04:16<Sionide>i also like to add, zillion, killian and jillion :D
04:17<Sionide>killion* duh
04:17<Tefad>no one really cares much after 1*10^12 anyway
04:17<Tefad>so trillion is as high as we can count without problems.
04:17<boekabart>peter1138: What exactly did you mean by the GUI thing?
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04:18<boekabart>change town name with a button, new random with 'new language' or 'same language' ?
04:18<Sionide>does that make, a UK trillion, a billion billion?
04:18<Tefad>it depends on your definition of sense
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04:18<Tefad>Sionide: i have no idea
04:18<@peter1138>boekabart: language as set in the settings
04:18<Sionide>many 0z
04:18<Tefad>but using your logic . .
04:18<Sionide>so tired
04:18<@peter1138>boekabart: i.e. ignore the town's existing language
04:19<@peter1138>UK billion is now the same as a US billion, due to common usage
04:19<Tefad>million is 1000*1000, billion is 10^12, trillion is 10^24?!
04:19<@peter1138>old usage is thousand, million, milliard, billion, billiard, trillion, trilliard...
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04:19<Tefad>what the
04:19<Tefad>i've never heard of -iard
04:19<Sionide>me neither
04:20<Sionide>what about...
04:20<@peter1138>of course not, you're an uneducated American ;-)
04:20<Tefad>har har
04:20<Sionide>kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta, exa
04:20<Tefad>those are SI
04:20<Sionide>i think those are right
04:20<Tefad>unless you're talking about bytes
04:20<Tefad>then they get screwy.
04:20<TrueBrain>doesn't make it less SI :)
04:20<boekabart>peter1138: I'll take a look; but for this it must first be possible to change the language in scen. editor
04:20<@peter1138>boekabart: yes... your first patch is fine for that
04:21<Tefad>TrueBrain: true, but it gets complicated depending on context
04:21<Tefad>and the new binary prefixes aren't accepted very well.. as most think of it as pedantic
04:21<TrueBrain>Tefad: simple solution: kiB MiB GiB TiB PiB
04:21<TrueBrain>you have no idea how much it is used over here
04:21<Tefad>people come after me for using them : )
04:21<@peter1138>49 terapounds?
04:22<Tefad>peter1138: uh.. wtf?
04:22<TrueBrain>Tefad: I refuse to not use them, and when someone says to me: kB, I assume 1000; so they addept fast :)
04:22<Tefad>yes, but you probably have weight somewhere
04:22<TrueBrain>I am just 70 kilo! :p
04:22<Tefad>i have dumb americans with authority and they get pissed.
04:22<TrueBrain>(bad joke)
04:23<TrueBrain>they can get pissed all they want, I refuse to use unclear statements :)
04:23<Tefad>well it is usually in casual chat environments this happens : )
04:23<@peter1138>drunk americans, eh?
04:23<TrueBrain>Tefad: true
04:23<TrueBrain>Tefad: and documentation
04:25<TrueBrain>but okay, time to find myself a shower
04:25<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: Karwei has lots of them
04:26<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I rather have one where I can stand naked under without being looked at by others (unless of course it is my gf)
04:29<Tefad>aww shy
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04:50<@peter1138>gah, my cyrus admin login isn't working :/
04:50<@peter1138>it's just being a normal login, heh
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05:17<boekabart>peter1138: How do you feel about the ttdpatch water by the way, I actually like the idea a lot. Combined with deep sea level, I think it's just the amount of realism ottd needs. it's not supposed to be a terrain/water simulation game.
05:18<boekabart>all dynamics make the game slower, are tricky to control... don't think we need them.
05:20<boekabart>ok so it's OK if I aim for those 2 in one, or would you rather see 2 separate patches (sealevel/rivers)
05:21<boekabart>they are kind of ... dependent... i'm afraid, they do need a lot of the same changes both.
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05:31<boekabart>you're the dev, your call.
05:31<Sacro>he's like, some kind of developer
05:33<boekabart>how kind he is, is the question actually :)
05:36<@peter1138>yay, my forward/back mouse thumb buttons work :D
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06:20<kaan>hi all
06:21<TrueBrain>(I like this game :))
06:22<@peter1138>oh, it's a game?
06:24<TrueBrain>oh, you didn't know :s
06:24<Eddi|zuHause3>how can million, milliard, billion, billiard, etc. thing make no sense to someone?
06:26<TrueBrain>too little, too late
06:26<Eddi|zuHause3>there, everyone except the stupid americans use it
06:26<TrueBrain>if you read a backlog, do it fully, or not at all :p
06:26<ln->!seen meush
06:26<_42_>ln-, MeusH ( was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 1 week 14 hours 45 minutes ago (15.05. 20:41) stating "Read error: Connection reset by peer" after spending 3 hours 30 minutes there.
06:27<TrueBrain>@seen MeusH
06:27<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: MeusH was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <MeusH> @kick Bjarni
06:27<Eddi|zuHause3>of course, the british have to act as the americans' pet again :p
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06:30<@Bjarni>hi guys
06:30<@Bjarni>anything interesting going on here?
06:31<@Bjarni>well. I decided to show up more or less just because I thought it could be cool to do so right now. The power company is doing some cable work, so I don't have any power
06:31<@Bjarni>and then I got the idea to go on IRC on UPS power
06:31<@Bjarni>just to try it :)
06:32<Eddi|zuHause3>you must be _really_ bored :p
06:32[~]SpComb gets to put his upses to the test quite often
06:32<TrueBrain>bah, my zoom-in stuff has glitches :(
06:33<@Bjarni>actually not. I have plenty to do, but I decided to try this anyway
06:33<Eddi|zuHause3>go play some "analogue" games, like the people did 100 years ago, before there was electricity :p
06:33<valhallasw>Bjarni: what about socializing with the people who are lynching you because they can't do their work? :+
06:33[~]Bjarni is at home preparing for an exam
06:33<SpComb>why does one ever IRC? Why does one spend money so as to be able to stay on IRC during powerouts? Who knows...
06:34<@Bjarni>actually it's not to stay on IRC. I entered AFTER the power died :p
06:34<@Bjarni>and the idea of the UPS is lightning protection, not IRC battery life
06:34<SpComb>so you shut down everything before the scheduled power outage and then later on decided to use up your USP battery instead?
06:34<@Bjarni>that's just a bonus
06:35<@Bjarni>didn't shut down anything
06:35<SpComb>we get powerouts frequently here -
06:35<@Bjarni>13,4 min
06:36<@Bjarni>I have been on battery power for like 15 minutes now
06:36<@Bjarni>considering they said it would take half an hour, I might have enough power to stay online all the time
06:36<SpComb>our school's network (but not zapotek) lasts 1-2 hours on ups power (one switch seems to go down after on hour, but others last up to two), although it doesn't help much with the six-second or four-hour power outages
06:37<@Bjarni>however since there is little going on here and I have to study, I don't feel like I should push my UPS to the limit
06:37<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: s/hour/day
06:37<SpComb>someone needs to invest in a small generator :P
06:37<SpComb>Bjarni: preseving uptime is always a good thing
06:37<@Bjarni>I can safe myself from starting generator power :p
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06:54<boekabart>TrueBrain: checking the 16x zoom bug?
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07:16<@Bjarni>power came back late
07:17<@Bjarni>it took them more than the 30 minutes they said :/
07:24<ln->maybe it was simply not windy enough
07:25<@Bjarni>the western part of the country is powered by windmills. We are still coal powered and nobody wants to pay for a cable to connect us to the windmills, so I will rule out the weather conditions
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07:32<Maedhros>hi *
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07:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9900 /trunk/src/ (11 files): -Codechange: Separate the variables for how to highlight a land area and what to do with it afterwards.
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08:12<Jerub>man that was satisfying
08:12<Jerub>playing on 'Hard' difficulty is more fun than I though.
08:13<Jerub>er thought.
08:13<Jerub>My coal train network (long distance coal is the only way to make money starting off) just turned into a very long oiltrain network.
08:14<Jerub>next thing to do is to take the mainlines to 4 instead of 2 tracks.
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08:34<Biff>group.h:27: Group* GetGroup(uint): Assertion `index < _Group_pool.total_items' failed.
08:34<@peter1138>doing what?
08:35<Biff>did nothing, just compiled up new version and the game crashes after 30 seconds or so
08:35<@peter1138>ok, please send me the savegame
08:35<Biff>ok, you want the core dump aswell?
08:37<Biff>dcc =)
08:38<Biff>oh, sorry
08:38<Biff>maybe i should put on web
08:38<Biff>1 sec
08:38<Biff>wait, should i zip it maybe?
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08:39<Biff>ok, bzip didnt do any good
08:39<Biff>i'll just leave it like that
08:40<@peter1138>it's compressed anyway
08:40<Biff>cool, i didnt know :-)
08:40<@peter1138>mmm, 30KB/s
08:41<Biff>i'll kill off bittorrent, it should hit 70KB/s at least
08:41<Biff>bad connection and big savegames are not the best combo
08:41<Eddi|zuHause3>that's faster as my download speed :p
08:41<Biff>i hope noone else tries to download it tho
08:42<Biff>then it will be even slower
08:42<Eddi|zuHause3>you could have uploaded it to the bugtracker instead :)
08:42<Biff>true, that would be wiser
08:43<Biff>or i could upload it to the university
08:43<@peter1138>30 seconds you say?
08:44<@peter1138>doing... nothing
08:44<Biff>something like that. took more like 1 minute now when i tried last
08:44<Biff>yeah, or just moving around on the map a bit
08:44<@peter1138>vehicle replacement
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08:45<@peter1138>i can fix that
08:45<Biff>i use the ukrs set btw, if that means something
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08:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9901 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: Decide what to do with selected land areas based on the specific variable, not how it was highlighted.
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08:59<arex\>How important are the coverage area for a station? Say I have a station that only covers one tile/square of a natural resource - how big a problem is that gonna be? :P
08:59<boekabart>afaik, it needs to cover 4 at least
09:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9902 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9898): Don't check group owner when adding a vehicle to the 'default' group.
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09:06<@peter1138>Biff: that's yours...
09:06<Biff>sweet, thanks. ill try
09:07<@Belugas>not really, boekabart. Some tiles of the industry/resource actually are producing stuff. Query tool can show that. So the coverrage of the station must touch a producing tile
09:08<boekabart>how about accepting? same thing?
09:08<boekabart>How do I submit a change to a translation, just noticed some wrong plurals in dutch
09:08<boekabart>Trein{P "" s} should be Trein{P "" en}
09:09<+glx>find the dutch translator and tell him
09:09<@Belugas>boekabart, accepting is nased on the same pattern, indeed
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09:10<boekabart>Schip{P "" s} Sch{P ip epen}
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09:14<Eddi|zuHause2>there used to be a translator channel, like #openttd.wt2 or so
09:15<@Belugas>wt2 is still available
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09:22<boekabart>Maedhros: could it be that you just broke the level-land tool?
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09:23<@peter1138>works for me
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09:24<boekabart>did I, then?
09:26<Maedhros>boekabart: works for me, too...
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09:30<Maedhros>i won't deny it's certainly possible i broke something though ;)
09:30<boekabart>compiling trunk
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09:36<boekabart>level land tool is broken
09:36<boekabart>in scenario editor at least
09:37<boekabart>in game it works
09:37<Maedhros>ah, the scenario editor
09:37<Maedhros>yeah, that's probably my fault
09:41<Maedhros>the demolish land tool is broken there too
09:41<@peter1138>why is it different in the scenario editor anyway...
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09:43<boekabart>peter1138: it's free there :)
09:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9903 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9901): Make the demolish and level land tools work in the scenario editor again.
09:44<boekabart>peter1138: done; rivers as in ttdpatch
09:44<boekabart>now I just need the gfx
09:44<@peter1138>use theirs!
09:44<boekabart>not published yet!
09:44<@peter1138>or not
09:44<boekabart>I asked permission, but they are not there yet
09:45<boekabart>2 issues left: cannot yet convert coast into waterfall, and cannot convert canal to river
09:45<boekabart>(the other way around works)
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09:49<boekabart>fixed both issues
09:49<XeryusTC>boekabart: canal -> river seems more "natural" than the other way around
09:50<boekabart>scenario editor: whatever :)
09:50<boekabart>ingame: we have to choose: either be able to convert river to canal (why??) or no conversions allowd
09:50<boekabart>currently, i think you can convert
09:51<Biff>peter1138: works great now
09:51<boekabart>yes, you can
09:52<boekabart>convert, that is. funny: it's 2x as expensive as building a new canal it seems
09:52<Eddi|zuHause2>you might make "river-coast" tiles unable to be passed by ships (i.e. needs at least 3 tiles wide rivers), then converting river to canal could make sense
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09:53<boekabart>eddi: true
09:54<boekabart>the opening screen canal is a river now
09:54<boekabart>(owner is water in that game)
09:55<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause2: I'd rather add a tiletype, shallow river or so, for that.
09:55<boekabart>actually, also for deep river, now it's determined 'by tileheight' (>sealevel), which I don't like
09:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm sure water has plenty of free bits for this :p
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10:00<Eddi|zuHause2>in the next step, one could introduce "small ships" which can run on shallow rivers, "big ships" which can run on deep rivers, and "huge ships" which can only run on ocean water
10:00<boekabart>like roadtypes, rivertypes
10:00<Haclet>Hi guys :)
10:00<boekabart>anyway, gotta run, this is what I've got so far:
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10:03<Haclet>I have question about Polish language. The code of text files is utf-8 , right?
10:04<Haclet>And when I switch to polish language - I don't see correct polish letters .
10:04<Eddi|zuHause2>since version 0.5.0
10:04<Eddi|zuHause2>there's a readme for that
10:04<Haclet>I am using last one from svn :)
10:04<boekabart>Haclet: use truetype font
10:05<Haclet>Okej - I'll read readme first :)
10:05<boekabart>small_font=arial , medium_font=arial large_font=arial in openttd.cfg
10:05<boekabart>the emty small_font= are already there
10:05[~]boekabart is gone
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10:53<arex\>To pick up AND deliver mail between two cities, but waiting for full trains, what orders do I have to use? Unload and Load in both cities?
10:53<hylje>full load
10:54<arex\>Only full load both places?
10:54<Noldo>unload is automatic to an accepting station
10:55<hylje>YA RLY
10:56<Sacro|Laptop>no wai
10:56<hylje>yes wai
10:56<@Bjarni>we need to improve spelling in this channel
10:56<@Bjarni>so it will become a human understandable language
10:57<hylje>a channel is a language nowadays?
10:57<@Bjarni>the language in here should be human understandable. The channel itself should not be a language :p
10:58<hylje>YA RLY
11:03<@peter1138>oh, ok
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11:12<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, switch the channel language to german :p
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11:18<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: I said human understandable :p
11:19<@Bjarni>but then again it's still an open question if Sacro is a human or not
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11:30<Maedhros>hi Wolf01
11:30<Maedhros>you might be interested in this: :)
11:31<Wolf01>hi Maedhros! i made what you wanted a week ago: rebuild the adjacent tiles
11:31<Maedhros>yeah, this patch allows that too :)
11:32<Wolf01>i added adjacent station support for roads, docks and airports too
11:32<@peter1138>inexpensive development...
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11:37<Maedhros>ooh, it's time for neighbours
11:39<@peter1138>oh dear
11:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9904 /trunk/ (config.lib readme.txt): -Codechange [FS#798]: Add OpenBSD support to configure (matthias)
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11:50<Wolf01>if you want to give a look
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11:59<Wolf01>why do you increased the savegame number? there is no need to save the adjoin stations with savegame
11:59<Wolf01>like buildonslopes
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12:01<Maedhros>no, but there is to add a patch option
12:02<Wolf01>you can always add it to the cfg
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12:02<Maedhros>no, everyone in a network game needs the same value ;)
12:03<Wolf01>oh, yes, i forgot that
12:04<Wolf01>mine don't require that because all players have it always enabled
12:04<Wolf01>just don't use ctrl when placing a station and you don't use the feature
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12:05<@peter1138>you might want it disabled in network games
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12:06<Wolf01>i wrote it exactly to have it enabled in network games :P
12:07<Wolf01>network/with ai
12:07<Wolf01>because of the lack of space around industries when all the players want to pick up/deliver at the same one
12:16<@peter1138>yeah, not everyone wants that
12:17<Wolf01>i know you are everyone ;) so i'm adding the patch option
12:19<Ammler>Will enhanced tunnels be possible in OTTD? (
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12:20<Ammler>but there is actually no patch availabe?
12:20<Maedhros>not yet, nope
12:21<@peter1138>one exists, but is not available...
12:22<Ammler>no nice:
12:22<@peter1138>no nice?
12:22<@peter1138>a bit confusing...
12:22<Maedhros>oooh :)
12:23<Ammler>hmm, just imagine what possible
12:23<@peter1138>well my patch just isn't ready yet
12:23<@peter1138>i was quite surprised to find a bus going down a railway tunnel, i must say :o
12:23<Ammler>ah, that means YOU are working on it, well :)
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12:24<Ammler>and that means, it will go to trunk fast
12:25<hylje>looks rather good
12:26<Ammler>hylje: would be revolution for hub building
12:26<hylje>would just make them a little smaller
12:26<Ammler>like newbridges
12:26<UndernotBuilder>do you know that with desolator's MediaX player applications can give instructions to the media player for playing foo track, change to bar one, etc.?
12:27<UndernotBuilder>we can use it to replace OTTD's media player when version 1.2 of MediaX is released
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12:29<Ammler>hylje: you don't need to double mainlinebridges (only 2 instead of 3 tiles)
12:30<hylje>but we need signaled tunnels and bridges to truly get rid of doubling
12:31<Ammler>oh no, than building hubs isn't realy challenge anymore
12:32<hylje>we'd up the ante
12:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9905 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Allow building new stations adjacent to existing stations by holding down control. Based on a patch by Wolf01.
12:33<Maedhros>Wolf01: there you go :)
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12:34<Wolf01>i was looking for a method to extend the stations in the adjoined area too
12:35<Wolf01>something like "start to drag over the station you want to get it stationID"
12:35<UndernotBuilder>Nice :D
12:36<UndernotBuilder>but instead of doing it why not code something more useful like newindustries?
12:37<Touqen>Isn't newindustries progressing?
12:37<Biff>peter1138: btw, there is a building in the samegave i gave you earlier that makes the game crash
12:37<Maedhros>isn't this useful?
12:37<Biff>if you click ? on it
12:37<UndernotBuilder>yes, but I see most useful newindustries
12:38<Maedhros>*shrug* i want to see newindustries too, but that doesn't mean i'm not going to look at anything else
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12:38<Wolf01>where are we arrived?
12:38<Noldo>0.6.0 Roadmap looks quite complete
12:39<UndernotBuilder>!wiki roadmap
12:39<Wolf01>[19:36:38] <UndernotBuilder> but instead of doing it why not code something more useful like newindustries?
12:39<Wolf01>[19:36:56] <Wolf01> but i think the simplest method is the Frostregen one: if you adjoin 2 or more stations, a popup appear to ask what station you want to extend
12:39<Wolf01>[19:37:12] <Wolf01> because i'm able to code only little things
12:39<Wolf01>[19:37:23] <Wolf01> you can see my failure with daylenght
12:39<Wolf01>i hate when mirc says "connected" but it isn't
12:39<Biff>Wolf01: dont use mirc then :-P
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12:44<@Belugas>[13:36] <Touqen> Isn't newindustries progressing? <--- little by little. Be sure you will all kow when it will be done
12:45<@Belugas>which means : wait and wait!
12:45<Touqen>I was just asking because UndernotBuilder was complaining.
12:46<@Belugas>it's ok, i just wanted to advise i'm still on it :)
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12:46<@Belugas>and i have to admit it's a tedious job
12:47<Wolf01>this time was the router
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12:48<Touqen>I'm sure.
12:48<Touqen>Out of boredom I tried hacking PBS onto YAPF
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12:49<Touqen>KUDr has a very interesting programming style.
12:49<hylje>in what way
12:50<Touqen>It's just non-obvious.
12:50<hylje>yapf is supposed to have performance
12:50<Touqen>You're point being?
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12:51<hylje>it ought to have non-obvious stuff that squeezes a bit more performance
12:51<Touqen>It's not so much that it's the speed optimizations that are non obvious. It's just the way he instantiates some things.
12:51<@Belugas>how far have you been, Touqen?
12:51<Touqen>It take a moment to really wrap one's head around it.
12:52<Wolf01>good work Maedhros, really more functional than my one
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12:53<Touqen>Belugas: w.r.t. to what?
12:54<Touqen>I have a redundant "to" in there.
12:54<@Belugas>[13:47] <Touqen> Out of boredom I tried hacking PBS onto YAPF <--- that
12:55<Touqen>The signallling is still a bit messed up and it doesn't clear the reservations at the right time.
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12:56<Touqen>So in terms of it "working" it currently doesn't really.
12:56<Touqen>Most of the time was spent figuring out yapf.
12:57<@Belugas>good good :)
12:57<@Belugas>keep it up :)
12:57<@peter1138>Biff: probably due to a change affecting ttrs3
12:58<@peter1138>Biff: so "don't do that"... it won't occur in new games
13:00<Biff>do any of the pathfinders check how much traffic there is?
13:00<@Rubidium>YAPF does
13:00<@peter1138>it shouldn't do
13:00<@Rubidium>by looking at red signals
13:01<Biff>just the next red signal? or the amount of red signals on a possible path?
13:02<hylje>both actually
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13:08<Maedhros>time to go and watch the football, i think
13:08<Maedhros>see you later
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13:11<Eddi|zuHause2>i think YAPF adds different penalties a) if the next signal is red, b) if the last signal is red, and c) if any of the next 10 signals are red
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>a) is there to choose a free path at a junction (if available), b) is there to choose a free platform, and c) is there for load balancing
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13:15<XeryusTC>Eddi|zuHause2: c
13:16<XeryusTC>a and b are done by different routines in YAPF IIRC
13:16<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you want to tell me with that?
13:17<XeryusTC>ill tell you that when i finaly get the relation between your previous lines :P
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13:47<boekabart>hmm what happened to my PC at work 40 minutes ago... rebooted spontaneously i guess
13:49<Wolf01>if windows i think is normal :P
13:50<hylje>automagical updates with automagical reboos
13:50<boekabart>at 8pm? hm, could be. log says connection reset by peer, not timeout, so wasn't a power-out
13:50<boekabart>probably an update, yes.
13:51[~]boekabart just spilled his drink all over himself. nice.
13:54<[3V]awaytyven>any way i can get the scenarios from the original TTDX? :>
13:56<@Rubidium>copy them from your CD to the scenario folder
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13:58<Wolf01>what is the Custom Bridge Heads status?
14:06<Wolf01>i have a little thought about train reversing or train-go-backward: make all trains double headed, for the single headed trains just put a brake wagon which act as unpowered engine
14:06<hylje>brake van!
14:07<hylje>mandatory brake vans!
14:08<Wolf01>so you should transfer the engine to the last wagon and let the train go backward
14:09<[3V]awaytyven>Rubidium, that's the problem, i can't find the cd :F
14:13<DiabloD3>what port does openttd use?
14:13<Wolf01>what's the command?
14:13<SpComb>!openttd port
14:13<_42_>SpComb: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
14:13<Wolf01>ok, thanks XD
14:22[~]DiabloD3 's server is up
14:22<DiabloD3>what a mess
14:22[~]DiabloD3 tries again
14:23<DiabloD3>2048 2048 maps are fucking huge
14:26<hylje>yes, really
14:27<DiabloD3>a nice small map
14:27<DiabloD3>for a quick play
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause2><Wolf01> i have a little thought about train reversing or train-go-backward: make all trains double headed, for the single headed trains just put a brake wagon which act as unpowered engine <- i don't remember ever seeing a train with a brake van
14:40<Eddi|zuHause2>also, not all trains should be able to go backwards
14:40<Wolf01>double headed can, single headed not
14:41<@Bjarni>all trains can go backwards. The question is if the driver can see anything or if it is part of an switching operation
14:42<Wolf01>in italy almost all passengers train have a special last wagon
14:42<@Bjarni>same here
14:42<Wolf01>i can't remember how is called
14:42<boekabart>with a cockpit?
14:42<hylje>trams have a hidden cockpit in the back
14:42<ln->here in turku (empty) passenger trains go backwards from the main station to the harbor every day.
14:43<ln->that's like 2..3 km
14:43<@peter1138>here there are no loco pulled passenger trains ;p
14:43<@peter1138>dmus ahoy :/
14:43<@Bjarni>I once reversed 6 km with 3 cars. It wasn't a planned event though :s
14:44<@peter1138>you broke the controls didn't you
14:44<@Bjarni>no I didn't
14:44<@peter1138>i can just imagine
14:44<@Bjarni>somebody else managed to prevent us from using a switch
14:45<@peter1138>"hmm, what does this lever do?"
14:45<@Bjarni>which makes moving the engine to the other end of the train really hard
14:45<@peter1138>HAMMER HORROR
14:45<@Bjarni>you know, when the order is incorrect and you lack switches, you start to talk about how much easier model railroading is xD
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14:47<@peter1138>it's easier to just play ttd
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14:47<hylje>with model railroads you can lift the vehicles with your hands, not quite so with ttd and rl
14:47<DiabloD3>or not. meh
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14:48<@Bjarni> <-- ROFL. Somebody made fun of the TT forum logo :D
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14:50<Eddi|zuHause2>the german railway (DRG) had steam engines with "Wendezugsteuerung" (i.e. ability to control the engine from the other end) before WWII
14:50<@Bjarni>I know
14:50<boekabart>that's impressive, how?
14:50<boekabart>long cables or telephone line to the actual machinist?
14:50<@Bjarni>they used robes to tell the fireman to increase or decrease power
14:51<boekabart>ropes iguess
14:51<@Bjarni>that would be considered too unsafe to be allowed today
14:51<@Bjarni>err, yeah
14:51<@Bjarni>typo :p
14:51<boekabart>or robes... i'm soo imagining that now
14:51<Eddi|zuHause2>it was like on ships, where the captain tells "full power" and in the machine room they react on it
14:51<@Bjarni>no they didn't
14:51<@Bjarni>well, not on the locomotives
14:51<@Bjarni>they used ropes. Kind of like the speed thing on steam ships
14:52<@Bjarni>when adding water to the boiler, I can easily imagine that the fireman misses the driver yelling stop
14:52<boekabart>they still do but now the ropes are called wires and the machinist is electronic
14:53<Eddi|zuHause2> <- i meant that thingie
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause2>the main problem was that the driver could control the brakes from the cabin, but not the throttle, so in case of an emergency brake, the engine could continue to push and derail the train
14:55<boekabart>if the fireman was slow to notice only
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14:58<Eddi|zuHause2>well, with emergency brakes, everything is supposed to happen within seconds
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14:58<[3V]awaytyven>anyone here not having any trouble at all that could host a saved game for me? :>
14:58<[3V]awaytyven>supposed to play with a friend, but neither of us can host (unstable uplink) :/
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15:11<ln->Bjarni: have you used Shark?
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15:22<Wolf01>[21:55:26] <Eddi|zuHause2> the main problem was that the driver could control the brakes from the cabin, but not the throttle, so in case of an emergency brake, the engine could continue to push and derail the train
15:22<Wolf01>and how a train can stop at a station then?
15:23<hylje>by braking really hard
15:23<Eddi|zuHause2>with regular braking (like at stations) you have plenty of time
15:24<Wolf01>but i never seen a train engine pushing at the max speed at a station when braking
15:24<Eddi|zuHause2>so the guy on the engine can react to the command "no throttle"
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15:25<@Bjarni><ln-> Bjarni: have you used Shark? <-- yes
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15:25<ln->it's a cool tool
15:25<@Bjarni>it does the job just like you want it to
15:26<hylje>does it have lazers on its head?
15:26<@Bjarni>I once found that it used 87% of the time in the cocoa video driver
15:26<@Bjarni>now it's way faster, like it's only using like 6%
15:27<@Bjarni>that's a really good example of when to use profiling to find the slowdown
15:27<DiabloD3>when do trains come in?
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15:28<@Bjarni>the scary thing is that 100% is all the time allocated to the game. So it's only 6% of the current load. Since the total CPU time decreased a lot, 1% in the first test != 1% in the last test, so it's really a whole lot faster now
15:30<@Bjarni><DiabloD3> when do trains come in? <--- that depends on where you are. If you are in Japan, then it's when the timetable says. If you are in Europe, then it's usually up to 5 minutes after the timetable tells. If you are in America, then you better get used to waiting
15:30<ln->this train has come in, and is already on its way out:
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15:30<DiabloD3>Bjarni: ...
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15:32<@Bjarni>ln-: I have seen pictures of that event before, but the story with it lacked. What happened?
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15:33<ln->dunno actually.. but it's a regularly used photo indeed.
15:34<@Bjarni> <--- this one is used once in a while as well
15:34<@Bjarni>they think it was due to ice in the brake system so when the driver tried to brake, nearly nothing happened
15:36<@Bjarni>the driver and the fireman jumped off before it hit the end of the track, so the only person, who were really unlucky there was a newspaper salesman (or I think it was a woman). That person could still be there in the picture (below the engine)
15:36<Ailure>that's a classic picture
15:37<@Bjarni>that's not a common cause of death: getting hit in the head by a train coming though a wall 10 meters over street level
15:37<Ailure>heh yeah
15:37<@Bjarni>this picture was used by the teacher when he said that it's important to ensure that the brakes are working
15:38<@Bjarni>and not to speed and to brake in proper time
15:38<@Bjarni>and all that stuff
15:38<Ailure>and this freeCiv match is amusing
15:38<Ailure>I researched all technology in the game :)
15:38<Ailure>the guy i'm playing against don't even have automobile..
15:38<@Bjarni>while the others still wants gunpowder?
15:38<Ailure>well we're only two in this game
15:39<Ailure>we did some 1 vs 1 games
15:39<Ailure>some games with computer players
15:39<Ailure>but since freeCiv's AI sucks
15:39<Ailure>I decided it would be more intresting with just us two
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15:39<DiabloD3>wrong window
15:40<@Bjarni>my brother once tried to play it. He thought he was doing well and had reached construction and stuff and all of a sudden Darwin's wonder were built
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15:40<@Bjarni>he lost
15:40<@Bjarni>the thing is that he likely did ok. It turned out that he played against some civ guru
15:40<Ailure>my weakness in the game
15:41<Ailure>is that I tend to be way too much of a builder and longterm player
15:41<@Bjarni>at the place where they actually made the game. I can't remember if the guy he played against actually coded it as well, but it's possible
15:41<Ailure>but it's fun nuking cities whoose only defender is musketeers :)
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15:42<Ailure>the modern tech tree in freeciv is boring
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15:42<@Bjarni>I once nuked a settler. I quickly pressed the key to move toward a city and the settler came in the way and I had already pressed the key when it came out of the fog of war... oops
15:42<@Bjarni>I did pollute his coal mine though
15:42<Ailure>I nuked one of thoose... ancient boats once
15:42<Ailure>by mistake
15:43<Ailure>luckily, a city was within blast radius
15:43<Ailure>but it was still annoying
15:43<Ailure>freeciv had some major improvments graphics wise I see
15:43<Ailure>only thing that did stand out as ugly as the nuclear blast xD
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15:44<@Bjarni>well this guy made a sneak attack on me, so I just decided to nuke some of his cities within range. I had way too many nukes. All of a sudden his surprise attack lacked backup and they even had to return to defend his homeland
15:44<@Bjarni>he attacked my weak island
15:44<Ailure>global warming can be used as a weapon too xD
15:45<Ailure>that's pretty much why my opponent is crippled
15:45<Ailure>in this latest game
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15:45<@Bjarni>but he was like "oh shit, I just attacked one town and this guy attacked me with 6 nukes the following round"
15:45<Ailure>he got hit pretty hard by the two global warmings
15:45<DiabloD3>civ emulates global warming now?
15:45<hylje>DiabloD3: civ2 had it
15:46<Ailure>it's slightly worse in freeciv
15:46<Ailure>and freeciv also have a seperate nuclear winter
15:46<Ailure>both things can happen too at once
15:46<hylje>whats the effect
15:46<hylje>sealevel, tundra?
15:46<DiabloD3>I want a realtime freeciv
15:46<Ailure>nuclear winter causes desert tiles and arctic tiles appear D:
15:47<Ailure>I do like realtime games
15:47<Desolator>DiabloD3: play cybernations
15:47<Ailure>but part of the charm with Civilization is that it's turnbased
15:47<hylje>zerg rush
15:47<Ailure>and I already play Cybernations xD
15:47<Ailure>myself I mean
15:47<Desolator>what's ur nation?
15:48<guru3>should i be able to see electrified rails?
15:49<Desolator>in open? yea, unless you disable them
15:49<guru3>how would i verify they'r enot disabled?
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15:49<guru3>because i just built some electrified track
15:49<guru3>and it doesn't have any cantenary
15:49<Ailure>how are you sure it's electrified?
15:49<Desolator>patches --> construction (or vehicles), at the bottom, see if "Disable electrified railways" is on
15:50<guru3>i can put an SH40 on the track
15:50<@Bjarni> <-- o_O Steam locomotives crashing into each other
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15:50<Desolator>well, does it appear separate in the rail menu?
15:50<@Bjarni>I guess they recorded this when they scrapped them
15:50<Ailure>disabling electric rails
15:50<Ailure>makes the electrified track disappear
15:50<Ailure>or rather
15:50<Ailure>the cantenary
15:51<guru3>that... doesn't really make sense
15:51<Ailure>I seen that movie
15:51<Ailure>it's neat
15:51<boekabart>DOH! just found out that canalsw.grf has water slopes...
15:51<Ailure>it probably was done for
15:51<Ailure>show mostly <<
15:51<Ailure>but it might been some engineering purpose
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15:52<@Belugas>night all. going home
15:52<Desolator>O.o steam locos exploded, never knew that, i thought that the tank would be flatted
15:52<Desolator>hey, anyone noticed that you can group trains in the nightlies? cool!
15:53<Desolator>now we need PBS, YAPF, Passenger Destinations
15:53<Ailure>it's been awhile since I last checked the nightlies xD
15:54<Wolf01>'night all
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15:54<Ailure>you can protect trains from being autoreplaced
15:54<Desolator> --> LOL!
15:56<@Bjarni> <boekabart> DOH! just found out that canalsw.grf has water slopes... <-- yeah. It's used for the middle part of the locks
15:57<DiabloD3>Desolator: group trains?
15:59<@Bjarni>Desolator: I once saw something like that on TV. It was some guy, who wanted to kill himself and when a railroad guy showed up to remove him right in front of a moving train, he wanted to take the railroad guy with him. The railroad guy then pulled him away by pulling his feet or they would both have been killed
16:00<@Bjarni> <-- somehow I like the Australian safety adverts better
16:01<@Bjarni>btw I once saw the last event happening in real life
16:01<Ailure>little bit too powerful D:
16:01<Ailure>it might make people afraid of trains
16:01<Ailure>people turn to dust as their soul fade away or something xD
16:02<@Bjarni>at one time I was at a station and a train was unloading passengers. Some of them decided to cross the tracks behind the train instead of using the tunnel. It turned out that there was a train in the other track passing through the station at around 100 km/h. It used the horn all the way though the station and had no chance to even slow down when they showed up
16:02<@Bjarni>it was a matter of a few sec
16:03<DiabloD3>and if this was america they would have sued the train station and won
16:03<Ailure>you get fined if you do that here
16:03<Desolator>Ailure, you call that powerful? THIS is powerful:
16:03<Ailure>I seen that one
16:04<Ailure>and hell, trains slow down here before they pass a sattion xD
16:04|-|Osai^2 changed nick to Osai
16:04<DiabloD3>see, why are people even allowed on the tracks
16:04<DiabloD3>I dont get that
16:04<Ailure>someone tried to suicide herself by lying down on the track
16:04<Ailure>they aren't in most countries
16:05<Ailure>there's like warnings everywhere between the platforms on my local train station
16:05<@Bjarni> <-- this is how it works in America o_O
16:05<DiabloD3>why in holy hell are we watching this?
16:06<@Bjarni><Ailure> and hell, trains slow down here before they pass a sattion xD <--- that depends on the station
16:06<Desolator>"But the drviver of this trucks certainly isn't (bright)" --> Agreed
16:06<Desolator>*driver *truck
16:06<DiabloD3>Bjarni: see
16:06<DiabloD3>theres an actual problem here
16:06<Ailure>it's like trains are made for crashing into car vehicles
16:06<@Bjarni>it mainly depends on the switches. If there are none (platform outside a station), then there are usually no speed restrictions
16:06<DiabloD3>the whatchamacallits should have came down earlier
16:06<Ailure>in most trains vs road vehicles
16:06<Ailure>the train is barely getting scratched
16:06<Desolator>Ailure: an express slowing down to pass a country station? no way
16:06<Ailure>though they probably derail
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16:06<Ailure>or can
16:07<@peter1138>Ailure: no, you saw that one
16:07<@Bjarni><Ailure> it's like trains are made for crashing into car vehicles <-- GG1 has the cab in the middle to protect the driver in case he hits a lorry
16:10<@Bjarni> <-- this train is not built to hit cars.... it derails o_O
16:10<Ailure>hah, I have no respect for people who uses paths dedicated to public transports :p
16:10<DiabloD3>there you go
16:10<DiabloD3>top gear
16:10<DiabloD3>discussion over
16:12<@Bjarni>Ailure: that's awesome
16:13<Ailure>indeed hehe
16:13<Ailure>my university have a similar system near it's main buildings 30 km away from here :p
16:14<Ailure>not automated, but makes it impossible for most road vehicles that isn't buses to pass
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16:16<@Bjarni>here they cleverly decided to make kind of like two rails for the busses to drive on. If you width of your axles aren't the same as the bus, then you fall into a pit
16:16<Ailure>they did something like that
16:17<Desolator>we need road vehicles that don't explode when a train hits them:
16:17<DiabloD3>I want to know what those trains are made of
16:17<Ailure>RC6 :)
16:18<Ailure>I wonder how well it does in crashes
16:18<Desolator>reinforced steel
16:18<DiabloD3>yeah, but what the fuck
16:18<DiabloD3>the train just /ignores/ the car
16:18<Ailure>train brakes badly
16:18<Ailure>especially freight trains
16:18<Ailure>so it might seem that way
16:18<Ailure>infact it might make it even worse if you try braking
16:19<Desolator>a train hits the car mostly with the buffers, which are damn hard, some made from titan
16:19<Desolator>a car is made from thin plates of steel
16:19<Desolator>compare reinforced steel (or even titan) travelling at 100 kph hit a car
16:20<@Bjarni>"when you are tie at the crossing, you lose" <-- that doesn't always apply to me :p
16:22<Desolator>Bjarni: don't take chances...
16:22<Desolator>you don't know when an express pax train could pop on you
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16:22<@Bjarni>Desolator: you missed the point. I guess it's most likely because you are unaware that I meant that I would be in the train
16:23<@Bjarni>but... it's not as solid as the US engines :/
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16:23<Desolator>another train coming down the line...kaboom
16:24<@Bjarni>that will never happen. We has some of the best security systems in the world to avoid that
16:24|-|Aitor [] has quit [Quit: Aitor]
16:24<@Bjarni>and interesting enough, whenever it happens, it often ends up with nearly no damage anyway
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16:25<Desolator>Bjarni: where are you from? (country)
16:26<Desolator>I guess you have this train type (iron ore) as swedish:
16:26<Sacro>Bjarni is netherlandian :p
16:27[~]Bjarni hits Sacro in the head with something really heavy
16:27<@Bjarni>there aren't anything to damage anyway :p
16:27<Sacro>:o me brian
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16:28<@Bjarni>Desolator: we use the same gauge as Sweden, but that's about it. We use different voltage in the catenary, different signals, different ATC and so on
16:28<@Bjarni>also we lack iron mines
16:29<Sacro>Bjarni: you have iron fields instead?
16:29<DiabloD3>wtf is an iron mine
16:29<Ailure>I never seen iron ore trains
16:29<DiabloD3>or an iron field
16:29<Ailure>but then they don't have mining operatios where I live
16:30<Ailure>I see plenty wood trains though
16:30<@Bjarni> <-- here freight trains looks like this instead
16:30<DiabloD3>I was thinking like a mine as in something that blows up
16:30<DiabloD3>so the question now is
16:30<DiabloD3>wtf is an iron field?
16:30<Ailure>Öresundståget :D
16:30<DiabloD3>I mean
16:31<DiabloD3>its not like I can go out into an open field and pick up chunks of rust
16:31<@Bjarni> <Ailure> I never seen iron ore trains <-- they are going between Kiruna and Narvik. It's such a far away place that we all know that they are there, but we haven't actually seen them ;9
16:31<DiabloD3>is anyone using openttd svn?
16:31<Ailure>Danish freight trains are diffrent
16:32<Sacro>mmm, danish bacon train
16:32<Ailure>most freight trains are using a RcX loco
16:32<DiabloD3>it refuses to start
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16:32<Ailure>and all Rc trains are electrical as far I know
16:32<@Bjarni><Ailure> Öresundståget :D <-- well, they are special. They can use both types of catenary and they have both Danish and Swedish ATC
16:32<Ailure>yeah heh
16:32<@Bjarni>actually EG can do that as well (The blue/yellow freight engine)
16:32<Desolator>I want flying trains in TTD, too!
16:32<Ailure>I have taken them a few times to Kristianstad
16:33<Ailure>and back
16:33<Desolator>Imagine a flying train with 150 carriages...extreme income if it's full
16:34<Ailure>I gotta love games where some vehicles dosen't have any kind of physics
16:34<DiabloD3>it went to the airport?
16:34<Ailure>and is just scripted
16:34<Ailure>well heh
16:34<Ailure>something went wrong with the scripting there
16:34<Ailure>probably one of thoose things you don't notice unless you screw around lots
16:34<@Bjarni><Ailure> and back <-- reminds me of when I had to pick something up in Helsingør. I took a train there, went to pick up what I had to do in a shop and went back to the same train when it left again 10 minutes later
16:35<@Bjarni>that was a quick trip :)
16:35<Ailure>sometimes I thought on taking train rides for fun
16:35<Ailure>mayhbe I do that in summer
16:35<@peter1138>"decided to went after the train" ...
16:35<Ailure>just going to kristianstad, eat lunch and get back
16:35<Ailure>I live in Hässleholm
16:35<@Bjarni>I'm sorry
16:36<Ailure>which is a pretty important hub apparently
16:36<Ailure>for trains
16:36<Desolator>This reminds me of a bus faster than a jet palne:
16:37<@Bjarni>I like how they made Kokkedal a bus hub and now a few years later the busses aren't going to it anymore, so it's a big empty bus parking lot next to the station
16:37<@Bjarni>some planning :p
16:37<boekabart>updated the deep water/river patch
16:38<Ailure>golden canals?
16:38<@Bjarni>did somebody take a leak into the canal?
16:38<boekabart>yeah, imagine they are yellowish river banks
16:38<boekabart>;) I guess I should stick to coding then, eh?
16:39<boekabart>anyway, needed smth to make the patch
16:39<Ailure>Well they would fit in the land of Oz clima te
16:39<Ailure>or something
16:39<Ailure>but I assume it's placeholder graphics
16:39<boekabart>yes they are of course
16:39<DiabloD3>whgat the fuck?
16:39[~]boekabart is falling asleep now
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16:53[~]Sacro hands skidd13 a damp cloth
16:56[~]skidd13 takes it and cleans the keyboard
16:59<skidd13>Anybody outa ther who used my orders-patch?
17:03<XeryusTC>skidd13: Alucard!
17:04<XeryusTC>your avatar
17:05<XeryusTC>Enma Ai > Alucard though :P
17:05<skidd13>It's quite late here. ;)
17:06<Ailure>or orders would be useful
17:06<Ailure>especially with depots
17:06<Ailure>although that might be tricky to program xD
17:06<Ailure>It would be useful for depots
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17:07<skidd13>I'm working on the GUI. l_blue_l is working on the backend (mostly)
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17:13<XeryusTC>im off, gn
17:14<skidd13>me too, gn
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17:30<DiabloD3>why the fuck wont openttd start
17:33<kaan>night all
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17:36<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: there are countless reasons why it won't start
17:37<DiabloD3>figured it out
17:37<DiabloD3>someone needs to quit fucking around with ./configure
17:37<DiabloD3>either distribute the goddamned or don't fucking bother
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17:37<@Rubidium>why would there need to be a
17:38<DiabloD3>because who the fuck wants to read a complex sh script?
17:38<DiabloD3>anyhow, the script at no point says its checking for SDL
17:39<@Rubidium>why would you need to?
17:39<DiabloD3>because it doesnt say at any point it couldnt find it
17:39<+glx>it says when it find or doesn't find it
17:39<DiabloD3>glx: not in the version in svn
17:39<+glx>or doesn't need it
17:40<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: what version are you talking about exactly?
17:40<DiabloD3>Rubidium: svn
17:40<@Rubidium>that is no version
17:40<DiabloD3>yes, and you need to learn how software development works.
17:40<@Rubidium>can I assume tags/0.3.4 ?
17:41<@Rubidium>because that's a svn version too
17:41<DiabloD3>don't get smart with me, kid.
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17:41<+glx>there is a line "checking SDL... " followed by "found" or "not found"
17:42<DiabloD3>well what the fuck
17:42<DiabloD3>where is it
17:42<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: there are lots of people using tags/0.5.1 and tell that they use the "svn version"
17:42<DiabloD3>Rubidium: then they arent using the svn version.
17:42<DiabloD3>they are using the svn version of last month or whenever it was tagged.
17:43<+glx>and this line is usually after the line saying "checking unicode..."
17:43<+glx>and before "checking COCOA..."
17:43<DiabloD3>no wonder I didnt see it
17:44<DiabloD3>tests are out of order
17:44<+glx>16th line for me
17:44<@Rubidium>how can the SDL check be out of order?
17:45|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:46<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: and you are probably referring to what is usually called "trunk" by developers that use SVN, not "svn version"
17:48<DiabloD3>Rubidium: technically HEAD, but that works too.
17:48<Eddi|zuHause2>more technically, trunk HEAD
17:48<DiabloD3>and its out of order because its an optional library feature checked before a system feature
17:48<Eddi|zuHause2>because every branch has its own HEAD
17:48<Jerub>you can use HEAD of a branch and that's still technically a version from svn :)
17:49<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: what is a system feature below SDL?
17:50<DiabloD3>actually I may be wrong
17:50<DiabloD3>wtf is 'cocoa' testing for?
17:50<DiabloD3>no, I mean for what
17:50<DiabloD3>and why the hell is it capitalized?
17:50<+glx>like GDI for windows
17:50<DiabloD3>glx: I've been coding in NS ever since Steve still worked at NextStep
17:51<DiabloD3>glx: I know what it is.
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, and i am internet expert for 20 years
17:51<DiabloD3>someone change the test for 'COCOA' to 'OSX video' or some other useful wording
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>what exactly is the point of your random bitching?
17:52<+glx>DiabloD3: no because there are many video drivers for osx
17:53<DiabloD3>glx: technically yes, but calling the check for the NS foundation in osx is just as meaningless
17:53<DiabloD3>at least if it says "OSX video" its obvious what its for
17:54<@Rubidium>so why no bitching about the naming for SDL?
17:54<DiabloD3>because it is SDL
17:55<DiabloD3>as far as I can tell, the only actual bug is it lets you compile openttd without dedicated-only and no video drivers
17:55<DiabloD3>which should be fixed
17:56<@Rubidium>isn't "WARNING: no video driver found, building dedicated only
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17:58<DiabloD3>Rubidium: which doesnt appear
17:58<DiabloD3>oh goddamnit!
17:59<DiabloD3>thats retarded!
17:59<DiabloD3>a) its not at the end
17:59<DiabloD3>b) it shouldnt get to the end and error and quit
17:59<Touqen>pathfinder is being wonky and I can't figure out why :/
18:00<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: so gcc is retarded too because it continues compiling when there is a warning?
18:00<DiabloD3>nope, thats what -Werror is for
18:01<@Rubidium>and why is something retarted when it isn't your so beloved automake/autoconf/autowhatever (crap)
18:02<DiabloD3>autoconf, and its because its virtually unmaintainable
18:02<DiabloD3>you may hate automake, and I ever agree with you
18:02<DiabloD3>but autoconf actually works right
18:03<@Rubidium>that totally depends on what you think is right
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18:05<DiabloD3>you write a better system that is easy to use, maintainable, doesnt use m4, and uses only sh.
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18:06<ln->with many projects, running the damn configure script takes longer than actually compiling.
18:06<Touqen>Do you think it would be a bad idea to disable the pathfinder when traveling across reserved junctions (since the intended route is known in advance and there isn't any reason to re-run the pf on every tile)?
18:07<Sacro|Laptop>Touqen: but how would you do it?
18:08<Touqen>Cache the tiles that the vehicle is intending to travel over, once the trains over the junction reenable the pf.
18:08<Sacro|Laptop>sounds kinda like PBS
18:09<Touqen>Well... yea
18:09<@Rubidium>caches aren't particulary safe if you don't save then in the savegame
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18:16<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: can you easily tell that some files should not be compiled under certain conditions with autoconf *and* have a script that shares the knowledge about the files to make project files for MSVC?
18:17<DiabloD3>Rubidium: yup, its easy to do
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18:17<DiabloD3>have autoconf process the Makefiles
18:17<DiabloD3>and you dont use project files with MSVC, you use microsoft style makefiles
18:17<DiabloD3>or you use gnu make and just call MSVC's compiler and linker instead
18:18<+glx>MSVC users usually know nothing about nmake
18:18<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: you still need the project files to be able to work in MSVC
18:19<DiabloD3>glx: you missed the obvious part
18:19<DiabloD3>people who dont know how to type ./configure && make in a shell shouldnt be compiling things
18:19<DiabloD3>this is why we distribute binaries, to keep the noobs out of trouble
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>/ignore DiabloD3
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never seen so much rubbish being talked in here
18:21<DiabloD3>Rubidium: microsoft has intentionally prevented you from having any sort of useful cross platform configuration done
18:21<DiabloD3>Rubidium: most projects opt to either use configure processed nmake makefiles, or just manually update the msvc project
18:22<DiabloD3>the ones that dont do either realize MSVC is a waste of time and gcc is all you ever need
18:22<Eddi|zuHause2>people use MSVC for its superior IDE, not for its compatible make system
18:22<DiabloD3>superior? wtf?
18:22<@Rubidium>we could ofcourse say, lets rip out the configure system and *only* use MSVC project files
18:22<DiabloD3>it sucks until you use vim for msvc.
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, you suck, i agree
18:25<Eddi|zuHause2>but i still fail to see a point
18:25<DiabloD3>well, you said it was a superior IDE, it never has been.
18:25<Touqen>As an _IDE_ it is.
18:25<Touqen>VIM is not an ide.
18:26<@Rubidium>ah well, too bad autoconf can't autoconf MSVC project files... so there's no real use for autoconf because it's "more maintainable" because it's obviously not when you want to have MSVC project files together with a makefile system that doesn't take ages to determine that you've got strcmp and memcpy
18:26<DiabloD3>you dont have to determine that
18:26<DiabloD3>use the standard "ansi c" test
18:26<DiabloD3>(and yes, about 5 billion projects fucking miss that test)
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18:27<@Rubidium>see, -5 billion for useability too ;)
18:27<DiabloD3>well, no, they failed to check in the autoconf manual for useful pre-existing tests
18:27<Eddi|zuHause2>is that a "short" billion or a "long" billion? :p
18:27<DiabloD3>Eddi|zuHause2: its still entirely too many
18:29<@Rubidium>DiabloD3: as if you are going to read the complete technical manual of your car before starting it; if you turn the ignition key and it works, your not going to search further how to make it work
18:30<DiabloD3>autoconf isnt made for idiotic end users
18:30<DiabloD3>its made for people who can read.
18:30<Eddi|zuHause2>DiabloD3: you miss the most important point of all: "never change a running system"
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18:37<@Rubidium>yay! ;)
18:42<eJoJ>There is a god ;)
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19:33<Sacro|Laptop>i don't understand yapf
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20:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r9906 /trunk/src/ (industry.h table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Add common properties for both industry and industry tiles specs
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21:12<staniel>hmm don't know if this is an error or not
21:13<staniel>but under the detail performance rating: minimum profit shows 0%, even though my lowest profit is ~16k
21:14<staniel>highest is 543k]
21:18<+glx>vehicle younger than 3 years don't count
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21:34<Jerub>I never knew this, but does "Load" for aircraft not wait for mail?
21:34<Jerub>That's the behaviour I observed today.
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21:46<@Belugas>working fine for me as we speak...
21:47<@Belugas>maybe you're too far from town
21:47<@Belugas>or maybe your plane is refited to something else than passeners
21:47<@Belugas>who knows...
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22:22<Jerub>hey, maybe that was it.
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23:31<staniel>Jerub: check the patches, under stations there is "Leave station when any cargo is full, if 'full load'
23:31<Jerub>oh, cool, thanks.
23:31<staniel>just noticed that
23:32<Jerub>I wonder what effect that has if you use a loco that can carry 8 bags of mail and a town creeps close to the station.
23:32<staniel>trying to figure out if htere is anyway to tweak the auto-renew to buy newer planes to replace old wons
23:32<staniel>ones even
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23:42<staniel>woo! figured it out finally
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---Logclosed Thu May 24 00:00:02 2007