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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-05-24

---Logopened Thu May 24 00:00:02 2007
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00:21<staniel>im in love with the dinger 200
00:24<staniel>my best performer is netting me 1.5million a year
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00:28<Jerub>I'm still experimenting with the best ways to play this game.
00:28<Jerub>i was more than a little shocked to find out how much money I made moving passengers.
00:29<Jerub>and my problems with things like oil is that a) I make bucketloads of money, b) I need to run goods trains too, and c) I'm not good enough at designing high load intersections.
00:29<boekabart>don't be, the challenge isn't to make money, it's just to play and transport as much as you can
00:29<boekabart>and enjoy
00:29<Jerub>so do planes actually travel at their speed? or is it scaled back?
00:30<boekabart>not yet, i've understood
00:30<boekabart>they are working on it.
00:30<Jerub>Well, I'm certaintly enjoying.
00:30<Jerub>I'm playing on hard. It's good to be challenged.
00:31<Jerub>but the AI is terrible at Hard difficulty. it runs out of money and can't get a revenue stream going.
00:31<boekabart>try a 64x64 map on hard then, that might actually be a challenge
00:31<boekabart>the AI is terrible, period.
00:31<Jerub>Hard is defiantely a challenge.
00:31<Jerub>even on the 256x512 map I'm on.
00:31<Jerub>took me ages to get enough income to be able to build what I wanted to build.
00:31<boekabart>just make 1 long coal run, it'll supply all the cash you need
00:32<Jerub>boekabart: I ended up with 3 long coal runs. all to the same power station.
00:32<Jerub>that was fun :)
00:32<staniel>technically if you think about it though
00:33<staniel>about the planes speed, it shouldn't be able to travel the same speed as a road vehicle
00:33<staniel>with the curve of the earth, and the altitude that planes fly at....
00:33<staniel>makes it a much greater distance
00:33<staniel>then just doing the same stretch on flat land
00:34<boekabart>the scale in openttd isn't and will never be 'realistic'
00:34<staniel>ahh, but that could have nbeen the original idea
00:34<Jerub>Road vehicles are super frustrating.k
00:34<boekabart>you can come close by making a scenario of say your province, where you can get a 10 to 25 meter-per-square scale
00:34<Jerub>at least you can build multiple stations and join them in openttd
00:34<boekabart>max 51x51 km on 2048x2048 map
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00:35<Jerub>I mean multiple bus depots
00:35<boekabart>Jerub: no you don't, bus stops you mean
00:36<boekabart>51km -> and then you shouldn't use planes on a map that size :(
00:36<Jerub>bus stops
00:37<Jerub>bus loading bay, that's it.
00:38<Jerub>I sometimes use lorrys to take goods from a factory to a town that's close by.
00:38<Jerub>but the only positive benefit is it makes the town grow faster, it doesn't net me anything.
00:40<boekabart>costs you headaches. better transport the goods across the map to a far away city by trains. $$!
00:40<Jerub>on hard, breakdowns are so frequent :(
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00:42<Jerub>makes it interesting though.
00:42<boekabart>you need 4 line mainlines
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00:42<Jerub>you have to design train systems with the idea that you will need to route around trains.
00:42<boekabart>and 4 line mainlines suck without PDS
00:43<Jerub>is that on by default?
00:43<Jerub>I think I have YPF on...
00:43<boekabart>it's not there anymore
00:43<boekabart>was never implemented for YAPF and for NPF they say it was buggy
00:44<boekabart>actually it did crash trains once in a while when editing the network. totally realistic, IMHO :)
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01:52<marius->uhm, what's the advantage of the signs with "plates" on them? :>
01:54<marius->not too pro explanation i guess :F
01:54<marius->the advanced train-signals :p
01:58<boekabart>marius-: there is a good article on the about pre-signals
01:59<Jerub>there are signals, entry, combo and exit signals
01:59<Jerub>entry signals are only green if one of the exit signals are green.
02:00<Jerub>combo signals are exit signals at the same time as being entry signals.
02:00<boekabart>(for example: a train won't try to enter the station until one platform is empty
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02:01<Jerub>boekabart: I am curious about one thing with pre signals.
02:02<Jerub>I have situations where I have a platform with multiple tracks, and I want a train to wait at the entry until there is a platform free.
02:02<Jerub>so say I have this.
02:03<Jerub>{one way entry presignal} -> 4 {two way exit signals}
02:03<Jerub>then have a single normal 1 way signal for exiting the station.
02:03<Jerub>what happens?
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02:19<Biff>Jerub: that sounds correct
02:24<Jerub>Biff: what does it do? go red when the station is full?
02:24<boekabart>Jerub: yes
02:24<boekabart>it ignores the normal sing
02:25<boekabart>only = green when at least 1 EXIT (white vertical panel) signal is green
02:25<Jerub>okay, excellent.
02:25<Jerub>what happens when there are no exit signals? always green?
02:26<boekabart>try it
02:26<boekabart>i have no idea, but i think always green
02:26<boekabart>well not always, i think: behave like normal signal
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03:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9907 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: prepare the road gui for more road types.
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03:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9908 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp station.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: prepare the station picker for more road types.
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04:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r9909 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9897): Highlight road tunnels properly when building them.
04:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9910 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: prepare road building/removing commands for more road types.
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05:16<kaan>goodmorning all
05:19<Thomas[NL]>good morning
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05:52<hylje>i just visited the uitp conf
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05:52<Sionide>Rubidium, more road types eh? sounds interesting..
05:53<Sionide>is there a topic on this?
05:53<skidd13>I think it's because of trams.
05:54<Sionide>not motorways then?
05:55<skidd13>There was a tram patch a while ago. I think one of the devs has taken the job to complet it.
05:56<hylje>i believe more road types can get in later on
05:57<hylje>but for true road simulation we need gneric traffic
05:58<skidd13>How far are the new industries? Tourists are working already :)
05:59<@Rubidium>using statistics (like Wolf01 did) I estimate summer 2008
05:59<hylje>just in time for starcraft 2
05:59<Maedhros>tourists are generated by houses, so they have nothing to do with industries :)
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06:04<skidd13>What are the opinions of the dev's regarding my "new orders window" patch?
06:07<Maedhros>in my personal opinion, i far prefer text buttons to images
06:09<@Rubidium>imo the buttons aren't more clear than the current text.
06:10<skidd13>OK, I'll think over new icons.
06:11<@Rubidium>and the (extra) non-stop stuff doesn't get very clear either (adding go directly and 'stop everywhere')
06:13<@Rubidium>I'd say about that: remove the ttdp non-stop handling and have "go to" (normal behaviour), "go directly to" (don't stop at intermediate stations), "go via" (normal behaviour, but don't stop at the "via" station), "go directly via" (don't stop at intermediate and the "via" station)
06:14<boekabart>sounds good.
06:14<boekabart>very clear
06:14<boekabart>allthough go via (don't stop there but do stop at every other station on the way) is very weird)
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06:15<skidd13>Rubidium: Yes, sounds good. I'll give that a go.
06:16<@peter1138>go directly to == non-stop!
06:16<@peter1138>you will not change my non-stop
06:17<@peter1138>boekabart: "go via" is ttdp style non-stop :/
06:17<boekabart>peter1138: but admit that the current naming isn't always clear to the end user... maybe change the titles?
06:17<@peter1138>normal non-stop confuses some people who don't know what it means...
06:17<boekabart>exactly my point :)
06:17<@peter1138>non-stop is perfectly fine for native english speakers
06:17<@peter1138>whatever it gets translated to i don't care ;)
06:17<boekabart>non-stop , don't stop
06:18<boekabart>i have no idea actually which is 'non-stop' and which is "don't stop"
06:19<skidd13>I changed the naming because of the equal named patch one. Just a WIP.
06:19<@Rubidium>well, I don't care whether it's "non-stop" or "directly" and I'm not native English
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06:20<boekabart>no, non-stop is OK, but sometimes it means "don't stop" apparently ( Rubidium calls this via up there ).
06:20<@Rubidium>well, that's the problem with non-stop, it could also mean don't stop at the destination 'station'
06:21<boekabart>no, it can't mean that . in english. but in openttd sometimes it does.
06:21<boekabart>peter1138: agree?
06:21<@Rubidium>non-stop in ttdp means don't stop at the destination 'station' (IIRC)
06:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i would totally misunderstand the word "via"
06:22<boekabart>but you're not native english :)
06:23<Eddi|zuHause3><boekabart> actually it did crash trains once in a while when editing the network. totally realistic, IMHO :) <- PBS was rejected because it crashed trains WITHOUT editing the network.
06:23<Noldo>To Joensuu via Kouvola and Lappeenranta
06:24<Noldo>would mean that the final destination is Joensuu but it stops in Kouvola and Lappeenranta which are on the way
06:25<Eddi|zuHause3>that is exactly what i would read, too, but that is not the intended meaning here
06:25<Eddi|zuHause3>here it would mean "treat Kouvola and Lappeenranta as waypoints (don't stop there)"
06:26<hylje>Run through $STATION
06:27<Eddi|zuHause3>and i predict that a million other users will misinterpret it the same way
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06:28<Eddi|zuHause3>"pass through $STATION", i could live with that
06:29<hylje>well that's settled then
06:31<Eddi|zuHause3>"Vorsicht auf Gleis 3, eine Durchfahrt"
06:32<Eddi|zuHause3>[typical announcement on a german station]
06:32<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: re pbs: still, realistic :)
06:32<Eddi|zuHause3>but the game is not supposed to be realistic :p
06:33<boekabart>anyway.... it's gone for now
06:34<hylje>the game is business simulation
06:35<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the game is transport simulation
06:35<boekabart>yeah... in real life, it matters very much whether coal is delivered within 1 or 4 days... not
06:35<boekabart>i don't like the fact that speed is of so much relevance when transporting coal.
06:36<boekabart>or ore, wood
06:36<boekabart>for passengers, goods, yes. but raws... neh
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06:37<Eddi|zuHause3>i agree, raw freight should have practically no time dependence
06:37<hylje>warehousing! supply and demand!
06:37<Eddi|zuHause3>so you could order a freight train to wait on a track, and let a express passenger train pass it
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06:39<boekabart>peter1138: Changed the water transparency:
06:41<boekabart>well better.. and with existing sprites
06:41<skidd13>I've to go back to wok. cya
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06:42<hylje>boekabart: :o
06:42<hylje>i take it we can't tint the tiles darker depending on depth?
06:43<boekabart>in a perfect 32bpp world, of course we can :)
06:43<boekabart>well actually we can, but we need to add the darker water sprite then; and the edges will look... eh.
06:44<boekabart>and I'm not sure if the palette has deeper blues
06:44<boekabart>note that that shot is with transparency on; without it just looks all the same
06:44<hylje>maybe add that to the todo when we have proper 32bit
06:45<Eddi|zuHause3>boekabart: can the grid be finer and extend over all (sea) water?
06:46<boekabart>finer: needs new sprites. extend all over: yes, but I chose not to do that :)
06:47<boekabart>I used the normal 'selection' sprites
06:47<boekabart>with 'transparency' palette modifier
06:47<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i figured...
06:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i just really dislike it this way...
06:49<boekabart>did you see it before
06:50<Eddi|zuHause3>the last transparent water i saw was with the brown ground sprites
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06:56<Eddi|zuHause3>i believe the ground sprites and grid sprites should generally be separated
06:56<Eddi|zuHause3>so you can turn the complete grid on and off like a transparency effect
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06:57<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause3: good plan :)
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06:59<@peter1138>boekabart: now that is an interesting way of doing it
06:59<boekabart>do you like it?
07:00<boekabart>i've been playing with ways to do it for hours
07:00<boekabart>this came out the best :)
07:00<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, the thought is good, but the result is "improveable" :)
07:00<boekabart>better with thinner lines i guess
07:00<@peter1138>the sprites a...
07:00<@peter1138>exactly that
07:01<@peter1138>possibly with lines across the half slopes too
07:01<@peter1138>how many are needed? one of each tileh (er, Slope) i guess
07:01<hylje>actually i think the grid should "float" at sealevel while the terrain is shown as water tiles
07:02<boekabart>hylje: tried that, not as nice.
07:02<boekabart>actually i can't find tiles that look OK. only bare_land is somehow accetable.
07:03<Eddi|zuHause3>if you plan to extend the grid thing to land tiles, maybe a different line for each tile edge (two per tile) might be better
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07:03<@peter1138>nah, draw all edges
07:03<Eddi|zuHause3>so a half-slope coast tile could have different colours for the land part and the water part
07:03<@peter1138>but it can be a dotted line, such that when two edges are joined it looks like a single line
07:04<Eddi|zuHause3>why all edges? the two other edges will be drawn with the neigbouring tiles
07:05<Eddi|zuHause3>i think there's an 'h' missing :p
07:05<Eddi|zuHause3>english has totally weird spelling
07:06<Eddi|zuHause3>nothing is spelt like it is spoken
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07:22<Jerub>this is confusing
07:22<Jerub>I want to fund a water tower, but I can't seem to be able to
07:23<Jerub>"Site unsuitable"
07:23<Jerub>also, the message I get when I try to place it on a town building is "too close to another industry" which is a bit confusing too
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07:25<@peter1138>yeah, it needs to be built *on* a building... for some reason
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07:27<Jerub>oh, right
07:28<Jerub>so I had to build it on the far side of the town to the nearest other water tower
07:30<Jerub>and the water well I chose was of course the lowest producing one on the map
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07:39<Jerub>it went from 40 to 32
07:40<Biff>i get textures from the small airport on the intercontinental
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07:46<@peter1138>that's because the sprites are reused
07:50<boekabart>Is the following by design: when I build canals in scenario editor, they cannot be deleted (or overbuilt by dock/locks) in the game.
07:50<boekabart>This is a result of a change sometime in the past, where canals got owner_none instead of owner_water, when built in scenario editor
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07:54[~]boekabart hates his PC, rebooted twice in 15 minutes. hard.
07:54<boekabart>and yes it's a window PC.
07:54<boekabart>but I'm sure that has nothing to do with it
07:56<boekabart>did I miss the answer to my question?
07:57<boekabart>i'll keep waiting for it then ;)
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08:30<@peter1138>you're a legend now, boekabart :)
08:31<boekabart>i'd rather become a legend by making 32bpp or pbs. This is too easy :)
08:32<TrueBrain>I rather just see a high amount of money wired to my account :p
08:33<hylje>make it work and go do 32bpp for kewl water transparency and tinting effects
08:33<boekabart>Actually, I made a 32bpp thing just to be abel to do cool effects
08:34<boekabart>(search forum for them)
08:37<Osai^2>hi all
08:37|-|Osai^2 changed nick to Osai
08:37<boekabart>that was a fast sqrt!
08:38<boekabart>actually it must mean Osai==1 :)
08:38<TrueBrain>or 0
08:40<+glx>can't be 0 then*
08:40<Osai>I don't want to be 0
08:41|-|boekabart changed nick to nul1
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08:41<boekabart>i tried null
08:41<boekabart>not nul
08:41<boekabart>/null hello?
08:43<Biff>any reason why news that one ignores should be stored?
08:43<@peter1138>so you can go back and look at it
08:43<@peter1138>it still happened...
08:43<Biff>i dont want that to happen
08:43<Biff>it makes the backlog unusable for me
08:44<Biff>on a large map, there is so much spam, that its not practical to have everything there
08:44<Biff>maybe its just me
08:45<Biff>well, i patched it so they dont come up. but if people want it then its no use
08:45<Biff>maybe it could be configured
08:46<@Belugas>so basically, you would like to have the message history being filtered by messages that you turned off in message settings, if i read you well
08:46<Biff>Belugas: yes, thats what i did
08:46<@Belugas>sounds interesting
08:47<boekabart>make it a checkbox in the bottom, and done you are!
08:47<boekabart>it'll make you a legend, probably... :)
08:47<Biff>well, i did it in two ways, first i did it so it doesnt show the messages, but i think my last solution just to drop the messages are just as good
08:47<Biff>haha, i think not :-P
08:47<Biff>i just fixed something that annoyed me
08:48[~]boekabart the legend is going to fight traffic once again.
08:48<Biff>good luck
08:49<Biff>but do people really go back in old news that they have filtered?
08:53<Biff>maybe i should use the forum or something
09:10<@Belugas>personnally, i'll prefer to be able to toggle it on and off.
09:10<@Belugas>the reasons why some messages are not interesting at one point may not be tru latter in the game.
09:11<@Belugas>so having the option to go back is something to consider, imho
09:11<Biff>true, but the message capacity is a bit limited
09:12<Eddi|zuHause3>you might make that limit a little more dynamic while you are there :p
09:12<Biff>maybe something like, shift click on the back log to see all types of messages
09:12<Biff>Eddi|zuHause3: hehe, yeah
09:12<Biff>the news-items doesnt take all that much ram ;)
09:13<Biff>#define MAX_NEWS 30 is the current setting
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09:14<Biff>maybe it should be a linked list
09:15<Eddi|zuHause3>linked lists are cache nightmares
09:16<Biff>i didnt know
09:16<Eddi|zuHause3>because basically every time you go, you get a cache miss
09:16<Biff>yeah, i guess
09:17<Eddi|zuHause3>this rarely happens if you use dynamic arrays
09:17<Biff>uhh. dynamic arrays?
09:17<Biff>like an array list?
09:17<+glx>maybe use memory pool
09:18<Noldo>array that grows in size when needed
09:18<Eddi|zuHause3>no, like: if (array is full) { create new array of double size; copy existing entries}
09:19<Biff>Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, but isnt that also quite slow?
09:19<Eddi|zuHause3>if you do not have the luxury of a garbage collection, add "clear old array"
09:19<Eddi|zuHause3>Biff: no, because the memory is one block, you get harldy any cache misses when you iterate through the array
09:20<Biff>i see
09:20<TrueBrain> <- I made a modification for OpenTTD so everything is more art-alike
09:20<TrueBrain>you guys like it?
09:20<Eddi|zuHause3>that can't be good :p
09:21<@peter1138>nice ;p
09:22<Eddi|zuHause3>reminds me of some old games
09:22<Biff>realloc(3) Oo
09:22<Eddi|zuHause3>with 320x200 resolution
09:22<Eddi|zuHause3>and 16 colours
09:23<Biff>those were the days
09:23<Eddi|zuHause3>i believe EGA had a mode with 64 colours
09:27<+glx>CGA was better :P
09:27<+glx>4 colors
09:28<Eddi|zuHause3>i heard the real gurus could switch palettes in the middle of the screen :)
09:37<@peter1138>more commonly done on 8bit computers
09:37<@peter1138>on the fly resolution switching too
09:37<@peter1138>it is quite troublesome for emulators...
09:39<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, it's a feature long forgotten in the 32bit days :)
09:43<@peter1138>hmm, kaan's patch
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09:53<kaan>peter1138<- you called?
09:53<@peter1138>on the phone
09:53|-|boekabar1 changed nick to wboekabart
09:56|-|wboekabart changed nick to legend
09:56|-|boekabart changed nick to wboekabart
09:56|-|legend changed nick to boekabart
09:57<@Belugas>kaan, comment style wise : if comment is on its own line, without any code on it, please use /* blabla */
09:57<@Belugas>the // stuff is only used at the end of code line
09:57<@Belugas>although it's not like that everywhere, let's say we are trying to make the base code compliant
09:59<kaan>ok, ill change that then, im not that attached to // :)
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10:21<@peter1138>i'm reworking it anyway
10:22<@peter1138>you seem to have a penchant for deleting spacing lines though
10:22<@peter1138> }
10:22<@peter1138> bool VehicleNeedsService(const Vehicle *v)
10:23<kaan>didn't notice that :)
10:23<@peter1138>but don't worry about it
10:23[~]peter1138 compiles
10:25<@Belugas>most of the time, users do not look at their patch before publishing it. and even after :)
10:25|-|elmex [] has joined #openttd
10:26<+glx>even when you point out the "style" problems and unneded changes
10:26<kaan>heh, i did read it and notice the -} +} but i couldnt for my life find it and correct it
10:26<+glx>the diff tells you where it is
10:27<kaan>maybe i should enable line numbering :P
10:27<+glx>you don't have a "goto line" command?
10:27<kaan>who knows, MSVS is a big program
10:28<+glx>just type ctrl-g
10:28<kaan>oh :)
10:30<+glx>ctrl-r ctrl-w is useful too
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10:52<@peter1138>can't get non-front to break down :-(
10:52<@Rubidium>does it age?
10:53|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
10:55<@peter1138>no indiction atm
10:55<@peter1138>no indication atm
10:59<TinoM>d'oh ^^
10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>tip: /topic
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10:59<TinoM>ah, sorry, wrong channel ;)
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11:07<TrueBrain>hi MeusH
11:07<kaan>peter, it is useful to reenable black smoke on secondary to verify breakdowns
11:07<MeusH>hey, how's AI?
11:08<TrueBrain>slow :p
11:08<kaan>eighter that or you could disable service on secondary and then go look it up later
11:08<MeusH>how about other projects?
11:08<TrueBrain>slow :p
11:08<kaan>slow is good :)
11:08<TrueBrain>not really
11:08<TrueBrain>or rather: depends on who you ask :p
11:09<TrueBrain>if you ask my roommates, they would agree with you, as it means I have more time for them :p
11:09<kaan>well, if you refer to the sudden slowness of the head rev then its not too good
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11:11<@peter1138>kaan: yes
11:11<TrueBrain>for who ever is using git, we have some bad news, we are currently reimporting the whole SVN; make sure to make good backups of your git, and reclone/rebase when we are done :p
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11:13<Biff>hmmm, is there a way to list industries by type?
11:13<TrueBrain>click on the sort buttons
11:14<Biff>oh, just found the list industries window
11:14<Eddi|zuHause3>there should be filter buttons as well
11:16<Biff>yeah, probably
11:16<Biff>2048*2048 is a bit too big for me
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11:17<Eddi|zuHause3>just use the new "really extremely few industries" setting :)
11:18<Eddi|zuHause3>i should try a trunk game again, and constantly bitch about the lack of PBS :p
11:18<Biff>oh, is there something like that?
11:18<@Belugas>bitching? yes, constantly :P
11:19<Biff>i wrote that in <1s
11:19<Biff>no, i meant really extreme few industries
11:20<@Belugas>cannot go lower than that, sorry. The other option is no industries, and you watch them get built overtime
11:21<@Belugas>but be aware that the whle industry chain will not be available as a sudden...
11:21<@Belugas>like factories without farms and steel mills,
11:22<@Belugas>or steel mills without iron ore mines...
11:23<@Belugas>pretty amusing :) you're stuck at building up your network for passengers/mail only
11:24<Eddi|zuHause3>it's like you're starting in 1800 or so :)
11:25<Eddi|zuHause3>is the last DBSetXL release really 2 years old?
11:26<Sleepie>yep 5th may 2005
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11:27<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i only have TTRS v2
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11:34<@peter1138>vista business edition in qemu = fail
11:34<@peter1138>won't install :(
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11:36<SpComb>is buisness edition expensive enough to be legally used in a virtual machine?
11:39<@peter1138>hmm, seems to do more when starting it manually (rather than using qemu-launcher)
11:39<SpComb> o/
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11:39<boekabart>any can be used legally AS a vm os
11:39<boekabart>just might not be supported
11:40<Sionide>SpComb, shit hardware though..
11:40<Eddi|zuHause3>[2]+ Speicherzugriffsfehler bin/openttd (wd: ~/spiele/OpenTTD)
11:40<SpComb>Sionide: Dell provides linux support for said hardware, though
11:40<SpComb>which is quite something
11:40<Sionide>broadcom and ati
11:40<Eddi|zuHause3>(i was closing the newgrf window on the main menu)
11:40<@peter1138>Speicherzugriffsfehler? :p
11:41<Sionide>♫♪♩♬ Air Traffic - Charlotte
11:41<@peter1138>SpComb: heh, i just installed 7.04 the other day. works nicely
11:41<SpComb>peter1138: I'm planning on installing 7.04 some day, once I feel like booting out of windows
11:41<Eddi|zuHause3>(this probalby translates as "segmentation fault")
11:41<@peter1138>but my winxp partition won't boot in qemu either :(
11:42|-|Sacro^ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:44<@peter1138>hmm, vmware-player maybe...
11:44<Eddi|zuHause3>i think i can reproduce this
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11:45<Eddi|zuHause3>start game, open newgrf window, add grf, refresh list, choose a grf, add it, close newgrf window
11:45<Eddi|zuHause3>can anyone confirm this?
11:45<@peter1138>any grf?
11:45<Eddi|zuHause3>i think it works with any grf
11:46<@peter1138>works for me
11:46[~]peter1138 rereads :p
11:47<@peter1138>double free
11:47<@peter1138>doesn't happen every time though
11:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i have tried it multiple times, it crashes differently each time
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11:49<@peter1138>ok, vmware-player is crap
11:50<Wolf01>i agree, the workstation is really better :P
11:50<|Jeroen|>i like the server
11:51<hylje>to each its own
11:51<@peter1138>my win xp stuff only gets to Mup.sys :(
11:52<Wolf01>boekabart! great work with water levels! i really like this screenshot:
11:53<hylje>tt-forums finally got rid of that extra slash ?
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11:55<boekabart>Wolf01: thanks
11:55<boekabart>You actually like those golden canals!?
11:56<boekabart>dinner's served!
11:56<hylje>ual riverbanks
11:56<Biff>golden canals
11:56<boekabart>yes they are supposed to look like riverbanks
11:57<boekabart>:) placeholders of course
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11:57<Wolf01>yes, they are cool, maybe with a copper color to seem more like bricks (the grey seem stone) they may look better, but i like the transparent water more :D
12:03|-|glx|away changed nick to glx
12:07<@peter1138>rivers have bricks around them?
12:08<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe italian rivers :p
12:09<Wolf01>sometimes they have brick wharfs in cities
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12:10<hylje>maybe urban towns should have them
12:10<hylje>but outside urban area basic banks
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12:11<Noldo>similar to roads
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12:13<Thomas[NL]>you can make these brick-r wharfs by building a road on the slope :)
12:14<Eddi|zuHause3>he's talking about rivers, they should not have the need for slopes
12:15<Eddi|zuHause3>like canals
12:16<elmex>does transfer&full load make any senes?
12:17<skidd13>elmex: why not?
12:18<Eddi|zuHause3>not much, because you'll be picking up the cargo you just left there
12:19<elmex>ok, following setup: station B is built near a ore mine and it also gets transfered ore from elsewhere. so the transferd cargo and the cargo produced by the nearby industry mixes
12:19<elmex>will that result in a bug?
12:20<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, it might work meanwhile
12:20<elmex>would it work in 0.5.1?
12:20<Eddi|zuHause3>it used to not work, but someone did a transfer fix
12:20<Eddi|zuHause3>i just don't know how far that fix went
12:21<Eddi|zuHause3>it should be in 0.5.1
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12:29<Eddi|zuHause3>who can i beat senseless for the translation of the town road options?!?
12:29<@peter1138>they're not especially good in english ;p
12:30<Maedhros>pfft, you know where to find them :p
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12:35<kaan>is there any documentation to adding new strings to the lang files?
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12:36<Maedhros>kaan: yup, there is -
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12:38<skidd13>Is it possible to set a param to a string who is already set by a param?
12:39<kaan>Maedhros: thanks :)
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12:41<Desolator>can anyone help me with sourceforge?
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12:42<@Belugas>skidd13 : i don't get exactly what you mean
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12:44<skidd13>It's hard to describe it for me. I'll post a patch in my order window topic.
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12:47<Eddi|zuHause3>why does my self compiled openttd not have an openttd icon anymore?
12:50<@Belugas>skidd13, where/what should i look for?
12:52<skidd13>If I try to use this. The build crashes with "!invalid string id 0 in GetString". It seems the SetDParam(2, * and SetDParam(3, * are not accepted.
12:54<skidd13>A scenario: 1, STR_ORDER_GO_TO ; 2, STR_ORDER_TARGET_STATION ; 3, Station A ; 4, STR_EMPTY ; 5, STR_ORDER_ACTION_FULL_LOAD
12:54<@peter1138>not vim
12:56[~]peter1138 > home
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12:56<@Rubidium>in that case {STRING1} has to read 2 strings, when it can only read one, so the {STRING} becomes STR_EMPTY
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12:58<Biff>hmm, weird, did ./configure and make instead of building deb package, and now openttd doesnt read the home dir
13:00<Eddi|zuHause3>by default, openttd reads the binary dir, i believe
13:00<Biff>oh, weird
13:00<Eddi|zuHause3>you can change the paths where it searches for the config file with configure
13:00<Biff>yeah, i saw --personal-dir
13:00<Biff>but it should search in the users home folder
13:00<Eddi|zuHause3>so? specify ~
13:00<Biff>the normal deb-package of openttd does that
13:01<Biff>~ is not the home folder of every user
13:01<Biff>just me
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>~ is the home folder of the user that is logged in
13:01<Desolator>can anyone help me with sourceforge?
13:01<Biff>it will be expanded by bash, to /home/myuser/.openttd
13:01<Biff>then noone else can use it
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>use '~'
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>then bash will not expand anything
13:02<Biff>will that work?
13:02<Maedhros>i have a suspicion that openttd will have a fit if it sees that
13:02<Biff>you cant do fopen("~/something") in c
13:02<@Rubidium>just use --personal-dir=".openttd"
13:02<Biff>Rubidium: ah, thanks
13:02<@Rubidium>it's just the directory name for *in* the home directory
13:04<Biff>hmm, still it uses bin folder
13:06<Biff>maybe it will only work when i use enable-install
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13:07<@Rubidium>Biff: it should work (it did recompile OTTD, right?)
13:07<Biff>i did ./configure --personal-dir=.openttd; make clean && make
13:11<@Rubidium>Biff: try removing openttd.cfg from the binary dir and then start OTTD again (it might think: the directory is missing but I found the .cfg here, so take this dir)
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13:12<Biff>nope, didnt take
13:12<Biff>seems it only respects personal-dir when its installed or something
13:13<@Rubidium>hmm, that seems to be true
13:14<Biff>ok, guess i'll just symlink in the files then
13:14<@Rubidium>just move line 920 of config.lib to line 924
13:14<@Rubidium>and retry
13:15<Biff>glad it only takes 30 or so seconds to compile
13:16<Biff>yup, that worked
13:16|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
13:17<Biff>thanks :-)
13:17<Biff>i propose that should be the standard :P
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13:19<@Belugas>f***ing meeting :(
13:19|-|dihedral [] has joined #openttd
13:20<@Rubidium>Biff: the problem is that the default --personal-dir isn't an empty string
13:20<Biff>i thought it was empty
13:21<@Rubidium>no, it's .openttd by default, but only when you 'enable' installation
13:21[~]peter1138 ponders going back to work where it's nice & cool
13:21<@peter1138>kaan: ah... hehe, that's why you need to disable black smoke ;)
13:22<Biff>yes, i see the problem now
13:31<Ailure>how did whispers in IRC look now
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i still can't get openttd to use the icon
13:43<Eddi|zuHause3>it works with miniin, so it's probably a makefile rewrite thing
13:43<Wolf01>is possible to see the map size ingame?
13:44<Eddi|zuHause3>query-tool on the lowest tile?
13:45<Sacro|Laptop>Eddi|zuHause3: use the icon... how?
13:46<Eddi|zuHause3>in the title bar of the window, and the task bar
13:47<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, i got the icon in my gnome menu
13:50<Eddi|zuHause3>not the menu (where you start programs), in the task bar, or window list (where the running programs are listed)
13:50<@peter1138>which os?
13:50<Eddi|zuHause3>suse linux
13:50<@peter1138>then i don't see how the makefile rewrite is relevant
13:50<Eddi|zuHause3>it shows a default "X" icon now
13:51<Eddi|zuHause3>the file was moved
13:51<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe some path was not updated
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13:51<@peter1138>oh, maybe
13:52<Wolf01>would be cool if the map size is wrote in the minimap title bar
13:52<@peter1138>put that in your bin folder (so it's bin/media/openttd.32.bmp)
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13:56<Sacro|Laptop>that aint in the LSB is it?
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13:57<Eddi|zuHause3>yay, that works :)
13:59<@peter1138>i dunno, normally you'd embed an xpm
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14:00<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: why? i told you how to find out
14:00<@peter1138>who writes this crap...
14:00<Wolf01>because is nicer than query the game
14:01<Desolator>can anyone help me with sourceforge?
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14:03<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: "patch map_x" on the console
14:04<Wolf01>i know, but i want to see the game telling me the map sizes, map climate and my birth day on the minimap title :D
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... there are no ships available in 1920...
14:05<skidd13>peter1138: I updated the strings of my patch. Are they ok now (from the point of a native english speaking person)? ->
14:08<Wolf01> <- lol, this is the transmitter's hill, random game
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14:09<hylje>Wolf01: i was expecting a totatally elaborate hill in the middle of nowhere
14:09<hylje>but thats totally a lot of transmitters
14:10<Wolf01>and seem to not be the only one...
14:11|-|skidd13 changed nick to Skidd13|away
14:12<@peter1138>stupid screenshot
14:12<@peter1138>it won't scroll :(
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14:13<Wolf01>do you want the savegame?
14:13<kaan>peter1138: yeas the black smoke looks kind of lost sitting there on the tracks by itself :P
14:13<@peter1138>Wolf01: no ta
14:20<@peter1138>i wonder if it's "emulatable" with the normal smoke and a colour map
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14:36<Wolf01>what is the console command for setting the town road layout? i can't find it with list_patches
14:39<Skidd13|away>Wolf01: patch town_layout $number
14:39|-|Skidd13|away changed nick to Skidd13
14:40<Wolf01>thank you :)
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14:48<marius->anyone feel like starting a new game with me, coop company? :>
14:50<Haclet>Hey guy's ... Could you tell me how can I use svn to update with expected revison? I tried connect today Windows wersion with Linux - but I had Version Mismatch, and I need my snv version go back to 0.5.2.RC-1?
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14:50<@Rubidium>then you have to checkout tags/0.5.2-RC1 (revision doesn't matter) and not trunk
14:51<@Bjarni>just download the source tarball if you want a stable release
14:51<Haclet>sorki - could you write me command (as example)
14:51<Haclet>svn up -r ??
14:51<Haclet>and ?? should be ?
14:51<@Bjarni>svn co svn://
14:52<@Bjarni>followed by what you want to call your own dir
14:52<Haclet>ooo - is drfrent like cvs ... ....
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>with tags it should usually suffice to do "svn export"
14:52<@Bjarni>you could also use export instead of checkout (co), then it will not generate the .svn dir
14:53<Haclet>svn up tags 0.5.2-RC1
14:53<Haclet>At revision 9910.
14:53<Haclet>At revision 9910.
14:53<Haclet>nothing is changing :)
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>that won't work like this :p
14:54<Eddi|zuHause3>go into a new directory
14:54<Haclet>Eddi|zuHause3: and HOW - in CVS you can write: cvs up -r 1232 and all files will be replaced by this revison - and I know svn is more better - but I have no idea how can I do that
14:54<Eddi|zuHause3>and type exactly the command Bjarni told
14:55<@Rubidium>Haclet: 0.5.2-RC1 isn't based on trunk, it's based on a branch (and it even isn't a specific version of that branch)
14:55<Eddi|zuHause3>in svn you have branches, r1232 of trunk is not the same as r1232 of 0.5 branch
14:56<Eddi|zuHause3>you can do "svn switch <URL>", but i would not recommend that
14:56<Haclet>Okej - thenk
14:56<Haclet>thank you - I'll try letter - I have to go now.
14:56<Haclet>See you soon
14:57<+glx><Eddi|zuHause3> you can do "svn switch <URL>", but i would not recommend that <-- agreed (bad things can happen)
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i get wagons spontaneously disappearing...
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>but only when passing certain tiles
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>looks like only tiles of the form (1024+a)x(a) are affected (i have tracks through two of those)
15:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: what's your map size?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause3>512x2048, i think
15:05<@peter1138>a being?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause3>or the other way round
15:06<@Bjarni>I can see America just woke up
15:06<@Bjarni>I started getting spam
15:07<@Bjarni>I didn't get any spam all day, so I wondered if my new spam filter worked or not. Now I can see that it really works
15:07<@Bjarni>I guess that was the first time ever that I wanted to get spam :p
15:08<@Bjarni>btw I don't want any more spam. The test is over.. don't get any funny ideas :p
15:10<Wolf01>i receive about 14 messages of spam @day, normally i receive 1 or two
15:10<mikegrb>too late
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15:13<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: well, i can't replicate
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15:22<Wolf01>is the "pause on no clients" feature available on standard dedicated server or only with autopilot?
15:22<@peter1138>though it's "min_players"
15:22<Wolf01>ah, ok
15:22<Wolf01>so if 0 the game is paused
15:23<Wolf01>but the dedicated didn't tell me that the game is paused
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15:29<Eddi|zuHause3>no, if you set min_players=0, it gets never paused
15:29<Eddi|zuHause3>set it =1, so if you have <1 player, it gets paused
15:31<XeryusTC> :D
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15:33<Wolf01>server_bind_ip and connect_to_ip should be specified?
15:33<Wolf01>and what they do?
15:33<+glx>server_bind_ip only if the server has many ip
15:34<XeryusTC>server_bind_ip forces to listen on only 1 port or sth
15:34<+glx>connect_to_ip is like -n
15:34<+glx>and only for client
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15:52<@Bjarni>stupid car
15:53<@Bjarni>hiding when somebody wants to take a picture
15:53<@Bjarni>just like a little kid
15:53<@Bjarni>I bet you told it to do so :p
15:54<@Bjarni>we can't take those screenshots seriously. They aren't made with a human readable language :p
15:54<@peter1138>Bjarni: ...
15:55[~]Bjarni wonders if peter1138 thought that he was serious
15:55<@Bjarni>it's more interesting to actually hear how you manage to hide the cars
15:56<SpComb>does cloaking your cars cost extra energy?
15:56<@peter1138>Bjarni: why not scroll back to about an hour ago
15:57<@Bjarni>SpComb: most likely. And they can't move at full speed while cloaked :p
15:57<@Bjarni>peter1138: an hour ago... that was the transmitter hill screenshot :/
15:58<Eddi|zuHause3>1024+246=1270 (says bc, if anyone doubts my calculation skills)
15:58<@Belugas>[15:58] <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i get wagons spontaneously disappearing...
15:58<@Belugas>[15:58] <Eddi|zuHause3> but only when passing certain tiles
15:58<@Belugas>that, Bjarni
15:58<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: no, i misinterpreted it, that'sall :)
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16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r9911 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-24 23:07:47
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 2 fixed by WhiteRabbit (2)
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed by tucalipe (9)
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 30 fixed by thetitan (30)
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 34 fixed by Hadez (34)
16:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
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16:33<Jerub>that's a good feeling.
16:33<Jerub>adding a train to take goods from a oil refinery to a town already on your network, and that train brings in a profit of > it's cost in the first trip
16:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9912 /trunk/src/ai/ (default/default.cpp trolly/build.cpp trolly/pathfinder.cpp): -Fix: the AIs could build any road(station)s.
16:47<staniel>Jerub: thats why its called 'goods'
16:48<Sionide>tomorrow could be r10000 !
16:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i have never seen 80 commits in one day :p
16:49<Sionide>saturday then
16:49<mikegrb>well, all of 3
16:50<staniel>goods is like sex, better after it has been refined
16:50<Eddi|zuHause3>well... even if you get up to 10 commits a day (today were 7), you still have over a week, Sionide...
16:50<Sionide>d'oh :(
16:50<Sionide>we should have an irc party.
16:51<Eddi|zuHause3>get a life :p
16:51<staniel>speaking of that, where is she
16:51<Sionide>joking obviously
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16:53<Eddi|zuHause3>"she" == "miss .jpg" or "miss inflated doll"?
16:53|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
16:57<staniel>no she = a girl I knew from high school who is recently single
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16:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9913 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): -Update: the landscape documentation to reflect the changes to the road bits.
17:00<elmex>hmmm, some clients connecting to my servr seem to have problems, and the server said something about raising net_frame_freq
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17:01<Eddi|zuHause3>the higher net_frame_freq, the lower the used bandwidth
17:01<Eddi|zuHause3>but you also get higher "lag"
17:02<elmex>the client's bandwith?
17:02<elmex>the server has a pretty broad line
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>it's two-way traffic
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i believe
17:03<Eddi|zuHause3>some readme once said you should not set it above 3
17:03<Eddi|zuHause3>or the game gets practically unplayable
17:03<@Rubidium>elmex: for the client the download speed matters in the begin, for the server the upload speed matters
17:03<elmex>hmm, yes, 23 makes it a bit sloppy
17:04<elmex>hmm, well, i've had problems with someone trying to connect and somehow it took quite long for him
17:04<Eddi|zuHause3>well, on connection he has to download the entire savegame
17:04<Eddi|zuHause3>which can be several MB for large maps
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17:06<elmex>it's just 1.2mb and at least the servers upstream wasnt used my. well. whatever. maybe adjusting net_frame_freq helped. will found out tomorrow
17:06<elmex>thanks so far ;)
17:08<Eddi|zuHause3>well, after the initial savegame, traffic is like 3kb/s, if you set net_frame_freq to 3, it should be like 1/3rd that, so 1kb/s
17:09<elmex>well, the servers line has a capacity around 90kb/sec upstream
17:10<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but if the other guy has modem, or other programs running (like filesharing) ...
17:10<elmex>yes, thats propably the problem
17:11<elmex>heh, continuing save games on a different server is really a cool functionlity
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17:13<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, you can continue autosaves on your local computer and stuff
17:16<elmex>hm, i've had a weird effect iwth an autosave on my dedicated server. when i loaded the autosave it became a temperate climate (instead of subtropical which the game was originally)
17:16<elmex>when loading a non-autosave savegame it gets the climate right
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17:38<kaan>night all
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17:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r9914 /trunk/src/ (32 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: prepare GTTS and the pathfinders to handle multiple road types on a single tile.
17:42<elmex>hm,a ny way to configure the server after the config of a savegame?
17:44<@Rubidium>patches are configurable via rcon or from the console
17:45<@Rubidium>the other settings aren't changable in a dedicated server
17:46<elmex>well, i don't want to set them patch by patch,i mainly want to get the whole config from a savegame. the problem i have is basically: the server loads a savegame of different config than the one in openttd.cfg and when saving it sets the climate to something else an such stuff
17:47<@Rubidium>the climate of a saved game shouldn't change when a cfg is changed
17:48<elmex>well, i did this: saved a online game with climate subtropic and loaded it on my server with 'openttd -D -g save/a.sav'
17:48<elmex>worked great
17:49<elmex>but when i laod the autosaves then
17:49<elmex>the climate is temperate
17:49<elmex>(as set in the openttd.cfg of the server)
17:49<@peter1138>then the autosaves are of a different game
17:49<elmex>heh, they are not,the network is eactly the same
17:50<elmex>only that there is snow instead of desert
17:50<elmex>that could be the snowline eh?
17:52<elmex>that would still be a bug then... weird
17:53<elmex>i mean, look at that:
17:54<elmex>well 'nice' but it's not what i want :)
17:54<+glx>desert replaced by snow
17:54<elmex>yea, and temperate trees
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18:00<elmex>it's like the server merges the settings from openttd.cfg with the ones of the loaded savegame when saving
18:08<elmex>the problem seems to exist only with autosaves
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18:20<elmex>can't reproduce it with other savegames
18:20<elmex>only with that special one
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18:30<elmex>i guess the problem was some wierd interaction with reset_game_year and the servers config file ;-/
18:30<elmex>can't be
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19:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r9915 /branches/noai/ (160 files in 12 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk -r9815:9914
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20:26<Jerub>coworker is leaving us to go work on a pleasure yaught that gets chartered for 490k/week.
20:27<Jerub>I'm lucky to get 49k/year from my sea craft. I wonder if we could introduce pleasure liners to openttd :)
20:27<Jerub>you get more money the longer they stay at sea :p
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---Logclosed Fri May 25 00:00:37 2007