Back to Home / #openttd / 2007 / 06 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-02

---Logopened Sat Jun 02 00:00:42 2007
00:06|-|Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:40|-|boekabart [] has joined #openttd
00:42[~]boekabart yawns good morning
01:37|-|Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
02:06|-|Draakon [] has joined #openttd
02:08|-|bencvt [] has left #openttd []
02:11|-|Zuu [] has joined #openttd
02:19|-|Draakon [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
02:44|-|XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
02:46|-|Purno [] has joined #openttd
02:47|-|Thomas[NL] [] has joined #openttd
03:11|-|TinoM [] has joined #openttd
03:19|-|peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
03:26|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
03:36|-|remus_ [] has joined #openttd
03:38|-|dihedral [] has joined #openttd
03:40|-|Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
03:50|-|setrodox [] has joined #openttd
03:52|-|boekabart [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:52|-|ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
03:52|-|boekabart [] has joined #openttd
03:52|-|Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
03:52|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
03:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10019 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Implement GRM for newcargos
03:58<stillunknown>peter1138: ping
03:59|-|Progman [] has quit [Quit: Progman]
04:00|-|RamboRonny [] has joined #openttd
04:05|-|Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
04:06|-|remus [] has joined #openttd
04:08<stillunknown>peter1138: that smatz person did some optimizations related to the hash map, were they bad?
04:08|-|remus_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:08<Noldo>what is GRM?
04:09|-|Progman [] has joined #openttd
04:09|-|HMage` [] has quit [Quit: HMage`]
04:09<Maedhros>grf resource management - designed to avoid conflicts between grf files
04:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10020 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#824]: GetNextVehicle() is invalid for anything that isn't a train.
04:18|-|Unaimed [] has joined #openttd
04:19|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
04:21<Unaimed>Does anyone know how to use the {P} (Plural Modifier) in strings?
04:23<Maedhros>Unaimed: have you seen this?
04:23<Unaimed>Thank you, i was looking in the strings help section
04:24<stillunknown>peter1138: ping-pong
04:26<@peter1138>no idea
04:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10021 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9560): memory "corruption" that could lead to a failure to load newgrfs.
04:26|-|ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
04:26<Rubidium>robotboy: is the problem with ausland.grf now solved?
04:54|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
04:55|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
05:02|-|skidd13 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
05:03|-|dihedral [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:03|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
05:15|-|skidd13 [] has left #openttd []
05:16|-|Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:18|-|lolman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:20|-|Nigel_ [~nigel@] has joined #openttd
05:22|-|Nigel [~nigel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:23|-|kaan [~Klaus@] has joined #openttd
05:24|-|HMage [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:26|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
05:33|-|peterbrett [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:34|-|peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
05:38|-|lolman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:39|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
05:44|-|peterbrett [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:45|-|Sleepie [] has joined #openttd
05:51<stillunknown>Bjarni: ping
05:57|-|Sleepie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:00|-||2rB [~Twofish@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:03|-|kaan [~Klaus@] has left #openttd []
06:10<robotboy>will I have to wait for the nightly?
06:11<Rubidium>if you can compile yourself you don't need to wait
06:12<Unaimed>Where/how does one submit a patch?
06:13<robotboy>ill go get buildottd
06:15<boekabart>Unaimed: post it on the forum, get people to like it, talk to devs here
06:15<Unaimed>so i shouldn't submit it to flyspray?
06:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10022 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10007): Set the type of multiheaded trains before the subtype.
06:17<robotboy>what version of .net does build ottd need?
06:20|-|Unaimed [] has quit []
06:21<Wolf01>can somebody commit these three little patches?
06:27|-|lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:36|-|Nigel_ changed nick to Nigel
06:38|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
06:42<Wolf01>mmmh, bug, you can remove roads also if you don't have money
06:44|-|TheJosh [] has joined #openttd
06:45|-|DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:46<TheJosh>Hey could someone point me in the right direction I wanted to add some code to the game (a patch) that would draw some lines and stuff on the main viewport. I want to be able to specify co-ords in isometric and have them worked out. what file should I look in?
06:46|-|dihedral [] has joined #openttd
06:47|-|dihedral [] has quit []
06:47|-|DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
06:48<TheJosh>basically i want to build a system that i call 'routes' where you can define lines that are drawn on the ground, and are basically a sign, but it covers an area (a line) rather than just a point
06:49<Eddi|zuHause3>if you want to draw stuff on the map, you should probably add a sprite
06:49<Eddi|zuHause3>like what the tile highlight code does
06:55|-|geoffk [] has joined #openttd
06:55|-|roboboy [] has joined #openttd
06:59|-|robotboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:02<@Bjarni>stillunknown: I think we need to work on your ping time :D
07:02<@Bjarni>it could improve
07:07<@Bjarni>are you madman2003?
07:07<stillunknown>Yes, i am.
07:07|-|glx [] has joined #openttd
07:07|-|mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
07:08<valhallasw>TrueBrain: where is the party? :P
07:09<@Bjarni>it could improve communication if we knew who is so paranoid that they have to use different names all over the place
07:09<@Bjarni>I bet you have a 3rd name on flyspray xD
07:09<stillunknown>I don't think so.
07:10<stillunknown>I don't actually remember why i choose a different irc name.
07:10<@Bjarni>also you picked 2003 in 2004 :p
07:11<stillunknown>I still use madman2003, just plug into a search engine ;-)
07:11<@Bjarni>"This concept cannot be applied to road, because there is no space in the map array there" <-- can't the road vehicle check if there is a train in the crossing using the train counter?
07:11<boekabart>ah, best thing about saturday: pizza for lunch
07:11<stillunknown>Bjarni: I forgot that road vehicles do not collide.
07:12<@Bjarni>they collide with trains
07:12<stillunknown>I remember now.
07:13<stillunknown>I will also look at the roadveh collision stuff.
07:13<stillunknown>Bjarni: Do you like the idea?
07:13<@Bjarni>the idea, yes
07:13<@Bjarni>also the benchmarks
07:14<@Bjarni>however I'm still not sure that it's bug free :s
07:14<stillunknown>Hence the: it could use some testing
07:14<TrueBrain>valhallasw: at mine place
07:14<boekabart>Bjarni: how many times did has a _committed_ patch been bugfree ;)
07:14<Eddi|zuHause3>hmm, technically, road vehicles collide with other road vehicles, just they slow down instead of crash
07:15<@Bjarni>boekabart: 273
07:15<valhallasw>The AHC regatta is 6th of june, too
07:15<boekabart>273 out of 10000 ;)
07:15<boekabart>TrueBrain: Why is the party in the middle of a working day :(
07:15<boekabart>higher treshold??
07:15<valhallasw>TrueBrain: 'zeilwedstrijd'? :p
07:15<TrueBrain>boekabart: becaue it means our OV is valid :p
07:16<TrueBrain>valhallasw: ah :)
07:19|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
07:21|-|sPooT [] has joined #openttd
07:21<stillunknown>TrueBrain boakabart: You expect him to know what an OV is (it's a card which can be either used during weeks or weekends, to travel to and from university/college/whatever)
07:21<stillunknown>They apparently have a week card, so they would have to pay for travel in the weekend.
07:23<TrueBrain>stillunknown: and why would you assume boekabart doesn't know what it is?
07:23<TrueBrain>stillunknown: I personally assume anyone living in The Netherlands knows what an OV is :p
07:24<valhallasw>TrueBrain: where is it, kamp duwo? :p
07:24<TrueBrain>valhallasw: haha, no, not really :p Around 15 minutes from Huygens by bike
07:31<stillunknown>Bjarni: The roadveh collision thing was easy.
07:31<stillunknown>and it works ;-)
07:31<@Bjarni>stillunknown: "if (GetPrevVehicleInChain(u) == NULL) {" <-- we have a front engine flag that's faster to check
07:32<@Bjarni>check train.h
07:32<@Bjarni>I even added a function to read it
07:32<@Bjarni>IsFrontEngine() or something
07:33<@Bjarni>GetPrevVehicleInChain() checks if a vehicle has next set to u. It's way faster to just read a bit in subtype in u :)
07:37<stillunknown>Bjarni: any other comments?
07:37<@Bjarni>loading old savegames...
07:38<@Bjarni>all the caches will be 0 when loading, so it can load ghost train issues
07:38<@Bjarni>trains passing though each other
07:38<Eddi|zuHause3>should be just a simple loop on loading
07:39<@Bjarni>also it's preferred to add {} after if(), even if it's only one line following. While it works without it, it's easier to read and (specially) to prevent future bugs
07:39<boekabart>stillunknown: I can remember the days I had an OV... Now I always have to PAY. (so i go by car most of the time)
07:39<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: something like that
07:40<@Bjarni>but the loop should only be when loading old savegames
07:41<@Bjarni>since the map (and therefore cache) is saved
07:42<Eddi|zuHause3>if (check savegame version) { loop } ... that one is pretty straight forward :p
07:42<@Bjarni>this would (at least in theory) also reduce the need for optimising the load loop since it will be called rarely and never when time matters (like when joining multiplayer games)
07:43<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: well, the loop thing is the interesting part
07:43<@Bjarni>the question is how to do it best
07:43<Eddi|zuHause3>i would not put a lot of thought in that...
07:44<@Bjarni>most likely by looping though all front engines and then walk though each train and increase the counter for each tile it passes
07:44<@Bjarni>just found a bug in the diff
07:44<@Bjarni>when two trains crash into each other, they will... crash (didn't expect that one coming :p ) and after a while the crashed train is cleared, yet it will not decrease the counter
07:45<stillunknown>That's intentional.
07:45<@Bjarni>even after it's cleared?
07:46<stillunknown>When train number 3 comes by, it will force a full check when leaving.
07:46<@Bjarni>if a tile contain 2 trains that crashes, the counter will be 2, even after the trains are gone
07:46<stillunknown>This will reset the counter to 0.
07:46<@Bjarni>what about the rear of both trains?
07:46<@Bjarni>the counter will be 1, then grow to 2 and after the trains leave, it will be 1 again
07:47<Eddi|zuHause3>which counter? after the vehicles are cleared, you do not know which tiles where occupied by the train
07:47<stillunknown>Above 3 trains, it will do a full check.
07:47<stillunknown>So it will find 1, minus one leaving.
07:47<stillunknown>is 0
07:48<@Bjarni>but the rear end of a crash train will be on tiles where the counter is 0
07:48<@Bjarni>counter is 1
07:48<Eddi|zuHause3>that is really dirty implementation...
07:48|-||2rB [~Twofish@] has joined #openttd
07:48<stillunknown>I will improve that.
07:49<@Bjarni>when clearing a crashed vehicle, you have to loop though all vehicles to count them on the tile in question
07:49<@Bjarni>it's a rare event (or at least should be), so it's ok
07:49<stillunknown>I know, just looking for the place were that happens.
07:50<@Bjarni>train_cmd.cpp has some function called clear crashed train or something
07:50<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, when clearing a crashed vehicle, you should only have to check wether the next vehicle in the train is on the same tile
07:50<Eddi|zuHause3>if not, decrease counter
07:50<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... the train could be self looping
07:50[~]Bjarni decides to actually open the source files instead of just the diff
07:50<Eddi|zuHause3>that won't work...
07:51<Eddi|zuHause3>so loop through all vehicles of the train
07:51<@Bjarni>no, it was called something else
07:51<@Bjarni>the last lines will delete the train when the counter reaches a certain point
08:03|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
08:04|-|Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:05<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> hm... the train could be self looping <-- I already thought about this. It will leave the tile and then come back to it. In such a case the train will be counted twice, so it's ok
08:05<@Bjarni>but that would leave another problem
08:06<@Bjarni>if it enters the same tile say 5 times and then leaves, it will count the number of trains in the tile, which will be only 1, but it will leave 4 times
08:06<Eddi|zuHause3>then you have to disallow this multiple counting
08:07|-|skidd13 [] has left #openttd []
08:07<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. if a train enters a tile, check, that it is not already on it, and if it leaves a tile, check also
08:07<Eddi|zuHause3>looping through a train should not be that expensive
08:11<@Bjarni>that's not a huge issue
08:11<@Bjarni>it will be an issue to check if the train in question is already on the tile when leaving though
08:12<@Bjarni>except if we make the trains double linked lists so it has a prev counter to increase speed when reading the previous vehicle
08:12|-|BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-193-217.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
08:12|-|BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-193-217.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
08:13|-|ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
08:18|-|DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:19<stillunknown>Bjarni: I can see one issue, if a train crosses itself (pretty rare) it will do collision checking, The problem is when a train crosses itself and another train is on the tile, this triggers the >=3 trains, which will only detect 2 trains, so when the crossed train leaves, it is set to zero. Another train could ride through that other train.
08:19<stillunknown>Very unlikely i suppose.
08:20|-|DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
08:20<@Bjarni>still a bug
08:20|-|graeme [] has joined #openttd
08:21<@Bjarni>the train can cross itself more than once on the same tile if somebody tries to break the game
08:21<@Bjarni>and as we know, people will do that
08:21<@Bjarni>people tries to break the game in all sorts of weird ways
08:21<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: doesn't a wagon have a link to the front engine?
08:21|-|redmonkey [~redmonkey@] has joined #openttd
08:21<Eddi|zuHause3>that removes the need for double linked list
08:23<@Bjarni>I suppose that the first pointer could be used here
08:23<@Bjarni>Vehicle *next; // next <-- now that's a wonderful comment :p
08:24<stillunknown>I wonder, can a train cross and still have another train on the tile.
08:24<Eddi|zuHause3>don't you love that kind of comments?
08:25<Eddi|zuHause3>Some_Type variable_that_does_something // variable of some type that does something
08:25<@Bjarni>stillunknown: highly unlikely, but we should be prepared for user stupidity
08:25<@Bjarni>also the counter should be correct when the train leaves
08:25<Tobin>"we should be prepared for user stupidity" <-- Damn skippy.
08:26<Tobin>Stupidity knows no bounds and people will push things if they think they can break them.
08:26<@Bjarni>let me put it this way: "user stupidity can figure out how to break the game and the stupid user will then do that over and over in multiplayer games"
08:27<@Bjarni>so it's a protect MP games issue
08:27<Eddi|zuHause3><stillunknown> I wonder, can a train cross and still have another train on the tile. <- sure, just have a double-track tile, and have the train loop on only one half, have the other train pass (or even loop) on the other half
08:28<@Bjarni>user stupidity always find a way :p
08:28<stillunknown>The only option i see, is going through the entire train when encountering >1 trains on a tile
08:28<redmonkey>which version of openttd is the closest to the original ttdlx?
08:28<stillunknown>And checking if another piece of the train is on the same tile.
08:29<stillunknown>minus the first 2 wagons, ofcource.
08:29<@Bjarni>redmonkey: 0.1.1, but then again it's buggy, so maybe not
08:29<@Bjarni>but why do you want TTD?
08:30<Eddi|zuHause3>most additional features can be disabled or ignored...
08:30<redmonkey>because there is no ttdlx for unix systems :)
08:30<@Bjarni>didn't really answer my question
08:30<@Bjarni>why do you want TTD when you can have OpenTTD?
08:31<Tobin>redmonkey: Checkout the earliest revision from SVN and see if it compiles for you.
08:31<Tobin>redmonkey: And be prepared to be disappointed. TTDLX was good but it's _very_ frustrating after using OTTD.
08:32<redmonkey>because i loved the old TTD game just the way it was. sure, OpenTTD is great too. but sometimes i just wanna play the original one
08:32<stillunknown>People would have been stunned in '94 if they got ottd instead of ttd.
08:32<Eddi|zuHause3>people would have been frustrated of ottd, because it runs much slower...
08:33<@Bjarni><stillunknown> People would have been stunned in '94 if they got ottd instead of ttd. <-- specially by the resolutions we play in today xD
08:33|-|TheJosh [] has left #openttd []
08:34<redmonkey>could you bugfix OTTD 0.1.1 without adding new features as a sideproject? that'd be great! and i know a lot of other people who'd love it too :)
08:34<Kjetil>Playing the original is just annoying. All the cool features are missing
08:34<@Bjarni>I don't think anybody will spend ages doing that
08:34<@Bjarni>also 0.1.1 is windows only
08:35<@Bjarni>you really has to use 0.2.2 or something before the ports became any good
08:36<@Bjarni>I really wonder by so many people downloaded 0.1.4 for OSX and nobody bug reported that it had hardcoded absolute paths to my 3rd party libs
08:36<@Bjarni>tells you something about most users :p
08:36<Tobin>Bjarni: Hardly anyone gives good bug reports.
08:36<@Bjarni>I didn't say good, I said *any*
08:36<@Bjarni>I didn't even get "this shit fails to start" or anything
08:38|-|graeme [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:38<redmonkey>it was just an idea :) but you're right. if i wanna play the original, i can play it in an emulator or something. OTTD is way more advanced and i'm looking forward to the new 32bit graphics.. they just look awesome!
08:39<Tobin>Heh, 32bit graphics. Been there played that. :)
08:39|-|kaan [~Klaus@] has joined #openttd
08:39<Tobin>And back before any of you youngin's had a chance to get your hands on it too. :P
08:40<Tobin>I don't think anything cam of the early work though.
08:40<Tobin>By early work I mean Mek's.
08:41<stillunknown>What the easiest (and cheapest) way to check if a tile has branches?
08:42<redmonkey>but please don't overload OpenTTD with too much new stuff. because then it wouldn't be TTD anymore.
08:43<stillunknown>They'll only ruin gameplay in favor of eye candy.
08:44<Maedhros>stillunknown: TracksOverlap(), probably
08:50|-|lolman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:50|-|graeme [] has joined #openttd
08:51<kaan>im going fishing :)
08:51|-|kaan [~Klaus@] has left #openttd []
08:54|-|pecet [] has joined #openttd
09:09|-|boekabart [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:10|-|roboboy [] has quit [Quit: Brooklyn's got a URL Rodger Bacon USB Firewire SVG Ebooks Wazniack Flowerpower iMac Phaser laser inkjet what you see aint what you get]
09:15|-|sPooT [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:20|-|HMage [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:24|-|sPooT [] has joined #openttd
09:29|-|Calamarain [] has joined #openttd
09:32|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
09:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10023 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
09:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r3218): When selling trains, if there were no wagons between multiheaded
09:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: engines the rear part could be checked despite having already been deleted,
09:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: triggering an assert.
09:47|-|Apocalipsys [~Apocalips@] has joined #openttd
09:52|-|elmex [] has joined #openttd
09:55|-|Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
09:57|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
10:06<nairan>grr im stuck
10:06<nairan>in wll
10:06<nairan>i fell down near bd at the lont road up to the bd fort and now im fown at the ground stuck in the floor
10:07<nairan>!commit 1000
10:07<nairan>wrong window
10:08<nairan>bad to write in the wrong cha
10:20|-|HMage [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:22|-|thgergo [] has joined #openttd
10:24|-|kaan [~Klaus@] has joined #openttd
10:32|-|peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
10:32|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
10:34|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:38|-|graeme [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:40|-|Osai [] has joined #openttd
10:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r10024 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Feature: [build windows] trains, road vehicles and ships can now be sorted by cargo capacity (planes already had this option)
10:44|-|Osai [] has quit []
10:47<_Mist_>aggregated cargo capacity?
10:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r10025 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp:
10:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: [build windows] sorting planes for capacity didn't check mail capacity. Now mail capacity is used if passenger capacity is the same
10:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: The sort will still resort to EngineID if both mail and passenger capacities are the same
10:48<@Bjarni>now that part should be ok
10:48<_Mist_>nice, nice
10:48|-|Rexxars [] has quit [Quit: edgepro: Why are you staring at my shoes? They're perfectly normal.]
10:48<@peter1138>git, i just compiled ;(
10:49<@Bjarni>it's just one cpp file
10:49<@Bjarni>no headers or lang files
10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>how do trains with multiple cargos get handled?
10:49<@Bjarni>it's in the build window
10:49<Phazorx>coopers server crashes again :/
10:49<Phazorx>diff problem tho
10:50<@Bjarni>so it just reads the same number as the one printed in the cargo capacity in the details part of the window
10:50<@Bjarni>so if it sorts cargo incorrectly, then it's because it's also printed incorrectly
10:50<@Bjarni>I think
10:51<@Bjarni>anyway it shouldn't cause any problems
10:51<@Bjarni>dualheaded engines are sorted with their combined capacities
10:52|-|Rexxars [] has joined #openttd
10:52<Maedhros>Phazorx: what's the problem this time?
10:53<Phazorx>peter1138 says iy is fixed already
10:54|-|TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
10:54<@peter1138>did i say that? :p
10:54<Phazorx>implied sorry
10:54<@peter1138>Maedhros: though i'm investing this multihead/wagon bug
10:54<Maedhros>ok, cool
10:55|-|moe [] has joined #openttd
10:55<@peter1138>investigating, of course
10:55<Phazorx>peter1138: did i misunderstoof that? #10020 does fix /src/train.h:234: Vehicle* GetNextVehicle(const Vehicle*): Assertion `v->type == VEH_TRAIN' failed.
10:56<Phazorx>investing time = investigating
10:56<Maedhros>Phazorx: it fixes one of them, yes...
10:56<Maedhros>was anyone selling an aeroplane when it happened?
10:57<Maedhros>alternatively, do you have disasters turned on?
10:57<Phazorx>disasters are off for sure
10:57|-|nairan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:57<Phazorx>selling a chopper apparently was the trigger
10:58<Phazorx>is it shared orders related?
10:58<Maedhros>ok, then it was fixed by r10020
10:58<hylje>great :)
10:58<Phazorx>heh coop should get renamed to beta test team
10:58|-|TinoM [] has joined #openttd
10:59<Maedhros>it's not to do with shared orders - it's calling GetNextVehicle which is only valid for trains on aircraft
10:59|-|pecet [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:59<Phazorx>i figured that, but i'm not familiar with what that function does
11:00<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: example, i have a train with 1 mail wagon, and 4 passenger wagons, then a train with 4 passenger wagons, and 1 mail wagon (same capacity, different order), how does this get compared?
11:00|-|redmonkey [~redmonkey@] has quit [Quit: bye! and keep up the good work guys!]
11:00<Maedhros>vehicles are linked lists - aircraft have 2 parts, trains have as many as you want
11:01<Maedhros>but trains also have articulated parts which are skipped by GetNextVehicle
11:01<Eddi|zuHause3>other example, i have a train with 2 livestock wagons, and 3 grain wagons, then one with 3 livestock wagons, 2 grain wagons (one capacity higher, one lower)
11:01<Maedhros>but to do that it needs to check v->subtype, which holds different values depending on the vehicle type
11:01|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
11:01|-|skidd13 [] has left #openttd []
11:01<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: it's the build window, so it's not the list of actual trains, but the available engines
11:01<@peter1138>i'm blaming bjarni on this one ;p
11:02<@peter1138>reverting r9973 makes the crash go away
11:02<Eddi|zuHause3>ah... then i misunderstood things... :)
11:02<Eddi|zuHause3>!openttd commit 9973
11:02<_42_>Commit by bjarni :: r9973 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2007-05-29 10:35:52 UTC)
11:02<_42_>-Cleanup: removed some code that kept both ends of a dualheaded engine in the same train (when moving wagons in a depot)
11:02<_42_> NormaliseTrainConsist() is called later in the same command and it will take care of this issue
11:03<@Bjarni>great, I fix one issue and then another one appears
11:03<@Bjarni>but I have yet to figure out what went wrong this time :/
11:03[~]Bjarni slaps hylje
11:04<@peter1138>Bjarni: triggered by building a multiheaded engine, putting a couple of wagons on it, then ctrl-moving all the wagons off, and then ctrl-moving them all back again
11:04<@peter1138>possibly other combinations, but that does it always, for me
11:09<@Bjarni>looks like the next pointer isn't set up like it should
11:09<@Bjarni>or something
11:11|-|lolman_ [] has joined #openttd
11:11<Eddi|zuHause3>is the normalise function called for both consists?
11:12|-|lolman_ [] has quit []
11:18|-|lolman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:18|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
11:31<Phazorx>multihead bug strikes coopers server again :/
11:31<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: yes, but that's not the problem
11:35<Maedhros>Phazorx: what happened this time?
11:36<Phazorx>selling turbotrain crashed it apparently
11:37<Maedhros>was it a multiheaded train without any carriages inbetween?
11:37<Phazorx>turbotrain is dualhead
11:38<Maedhros>did it have any carriages? and was someone selling it?
11:38<Phazorx>someone was selling it
11:38<Phazorx>cghecking on carriage status
11:38<Maedhros>it was probably fixed by r10023 :)
11:40<Phazorx>i guess we have to wait for nighty to figure it out
11:42<@Bjarni>hmm, one step closer to what goes on
11:43<@Bjarni>some cache isn't updated when moving the wagons OUT of the train and when it relies on the cache when adding them again, it asserts
11:45|-|lolman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:58|-|TinoM [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:58<Wolf01>is here a developer available to help me fixing the main title viewport scroll patch?
12:03|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
12:03<Thomas[NL]>what do you guys think of
12:04<Wolf01>look nice, but i prefer vertical signals at road sides :)
12:04<Noldo>The arrows look nice but the road it self not so much
12:04<Maedhros>Thomas[NL]: looks nice
12:04<Eddi|zuHause3>these arrows look really bad...
12:04<Eddi|zuHause3>rather put an arrow on each lane...
12:05<Thomas[NL]>I'll try that
12:05<Eddi|zuHause3>and on the sloped roads, they are off center
12:07<Thomas[NL]>they use the same graphics as the flat road, also in the "original" one-way arrows
12:08<@Bjarni>finally. Now I know what went wrong
12:08<@Bjarni>now the big question is how to fix it...
12:08|-|UndernotBuilder [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
12:08<@peter1138>revert that commit ;p
12:09<@Bjarni>because then we will be back to the bug that the previous commit fixed
12:10|-|TinoM [] has joined #openttd
12:12|-|Calamarain [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:13<UndernotBuilder>-Fix (r10008): Add articulated_vehicles.h to the project files.
12:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r10026 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
12:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: unlinking a rail vehicle didn't clear the first pointer
12:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: After r9973, this could cause some asserts as some vehicles could end up with first pointers to chains they didn't belong to
12:26<@Bjarni>Phazorx: this should solve your issue and it's in time for the next nightly build (in half an hour)
12:29<Thomas[NL]>Something like this Wolf01 ? (just one sign at a time not both on the same tile)
12:30<Wolf01>yes, i really like that
12:31<@Bjarni>remember roadsides should apply ;)
12:31<@Bjarni>it's not everybody, who drives on the left
12:31<Wolf01>that would be cool
12:33<@Bjarni>damn, what a stupid bug... I spent ages debugging, backtracing and source reading just to add one simple line >_<
12:34|-|KritiK [] has joined #openttd
12:36<@Bjarni>spending 90 minutes on entering 16 chars of code... that's one char every 5,6 minute o_O
12:37<Wolf01>i own you all, 4 hours to make one line of code like "if (st->owner != player) {"
12:38<Eddi|zuHause3>Thomas[NL]: the line on the front sign should have an angle. like the lines of the road
12:38<@Bjarni>Wolf01: nice one
12:38<@Bjarni>well, my line was just var = NULL;
12:38<Thomas[NL]>Eddi|zuHause3, your right
12:39<Eddi|zuHause3>Thomas[NL]: and you probably get issues with vehicles driving "over" the sign
12:39<Eddi|zuHause3>unless you handle them like rail signals
12:39<@Bjarni>he should
12:40<Phazorx>Bjarni: thanks
12:40<Wolf01>so.. this feature requires a patch
12:41<@Bjarni>usually new features has a strange demand for modifying the code ;)
12:43<Phazorx>heh as i justr said to coopers - i hate trams already w/o even seeing them
12:43<Phazorx>snowball effect is not very motivating
12:43[~]Sacro thinks he should have commit rights
12:43<Eddi|zuHause3>if you introduce code to handle road signs like rail signals, you also have no problem with traffic side, because you can just switch it
12:43<@Bjarni>snowball effect?
12:43<Maedhros>Phazorx: those bugs had nothing to do with trams :p
12:43<Phazorx>btw anyone looked into stillunknown idea?
12:44<@Bjarni>the caching thing?
12:44<Thomas[NL]>Eddi|zuHause3: I tried to make the line angled:
12:44<Phazorx>Bjarni: you change little thing that is supposed to be fine and discover whole chain of events tstarting from it
12:44<@Bjarni>I broke dualheaded engine because of some bug
12:44<Phazorx>Maedhros: exactly... but i figure implementing trams caused revamping od some common parts that uncovered old issues
12:45<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... not enough, i think, Thomas[NL]
12:45<@Bjarni>and the fix uncovered another bug
12:45<@Bjarni>and that fix caused this
12:45<Wolf01>Bjarni, you have 5 minutes to fix them :P
12:45<Phazorx>Bjarni - will cacghing make it into truck soon
12:45<Phazorx>i kinda liked performance boost of that
12:46<Eddi|zuHause3>Phazorx: there are still issues with some corner cases
12:46<@Bjarni>ahh yes, the original bug that I fixed was autoreplacing trains with 100 wagons
12:46<Phazorx>Bjarni: that fix for a fix of a fix reminds me of MS bugs -"there was an error diplaying an error for unknownn error"
12:46<@Bjarni>and that broke dualheaded engines
12:46<Wolf01>i wonder if caching will be extended to ships too
12:46<@Bjarni>fixing that broke something else regarding dualheaded engines
12:46<Phazorx>Bjarni: figures
12:46<Phazorx>but i still hate trams
12:47<Maedhros>you should probably hate articulated road vehicles instead ;)
12:47<@Bjarni>actually I didn't cause new bugs, I just made it easier to trigger bugs we already had in the code
12:47<moe>hmm where to make the one way roads active?
12:47<stillunknown>Phazorx: the main issue currently is that weird cases like trains going trough itself need to be handled.
12:47<Phazorx>"... I found the fork later. But we feelings are gone now"
12:47<Eddi|zuHause3>i love trams, hopefully, there will be a complete tram set...
12:48<stillunknown>trams made it into ottd?
12:48<moe>how to buld one way roads?(latest nightly (10015)
12:48<@Bjarni>some control thing
12:48<@Bjarni>I think
12:49<Maedhros>control click with the road building tool
12:49<Phazorx>ctrl + click
12:49<Zuu>ctrl-drag also works.
12:49<Phazorx>stillunknown: but there is hope right?
12:49<moe>thanks phazor
12:49|-|Zr40 [] has joined #openttd
12:49<stillunknown>Phazorx: Ofcource there is, but i'm still considering various solutions.
12:49<Phazorx>how about one way bridges?
12:50<@Bjarni> <Phazorx> stillunknown: but there is hope right? <-- well, it depends if I can figure out some outer rare cases where it will fail :p
12:50<Phazorx>stillunknown: i see... your efforts are gretly appreciated
12:50<Phazorx>Bjarni: coopers are good for figuring out rare cases when soemtihng that usualy works - fails
12:51<@Bjarni>we better get this one right from the start as it affect savegames and buggy data is saved
12:51<stillunknown>I agree.
12:51<@Bjarni>Thomas[NL]: the right one is still wrong :p
12:51<Thomas[NL]>yeah, don't look at that one :)
12:53<@peter1138>oooh, tram bug :D
12:53<@Bjarni>hurry up and fix it before the nightly builds
12:53<Maedhros>peter1138: you're good at finding these :)
12:54<@peter1138>basically, have a 'built-up' road with trees on it
12:54<@peter1138>build a tram track perpendicular across it, with no roads
12:54<@peter1138>the trees are still there, right on the tracks
12:54<stillunknown>One of the solutions i'm considering, is during VehicleEnterTile check for crossing track and occupancy > 1, then iterate trough train, if wagon is on same tile --> add a flag to vehicle (which can be increased when more crossings happen), the last wagon does the same and will remove the flag when the crossing ends.
12:55|-|Frostregen__ [] has joined #openttd
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>Thomas[NL]: the left one looks ok now
12:55|-|Frostregen__ changed nick to Frostregen_
12:56<@Bjarni>stillunknown: not good enough. Imagine a circle line where the train is 3 times as long as the tracks. It will drive on top of itself even on tiles without crosses
12:56<Maedhros>why is that trains can't crash into themselves again? they could in tto, as far as i remember...
12:56<stillunknown>Bjarni: But the train still has an end, which can detect if another section is on that tile
12:56<Eddi|zuHause3>no, they never crashed
12:57<@peter1138>damn, cs trams are too long
12:57<@peter1138>not articulated :(
12:57<Maedhros>no? oh, ok then
12:58<Phazorx>stillunknown: i'm not very familiar with the code - but what is the special case with train going thorugh itself?
12:58<Phazorx>and should that be handled in same fasion as any other colision?
12:58<stillunknown>Bjarni: so the last wagon and the first check each tile, if they are entering a tile that isn't a simple track and if a train is already present on that tile
12:58|-|DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Quit:]
12:59<stillunknown>phazorx: trains can ride through themselves, in circles if you want
12:59|-|Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:59|-|Frostregen_ changed nick to Frostregen
12:59<@Bjarni>trains can drive though itself on tiles that are simple tracks
12:59<Phazorx>stillunknown: is that on purpose?
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>stillunknown: the problem with a "flag" is, that it can run in circles multiple times
12:59<stillunknown>that flag would be a counter
13:00<Maedhros>Phazorx: well, it was done deliberately, yes
13:00<stillunknown>But i agree a circle situation could be problematic.
13:01<Phazorx>Maedhros: weird :)
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>but i have a suggestion
13:01|-|DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>if you count the multiple train multiple times
13:02<Eddi|zuHause3>and you have to recheck if the counter is >= 3
13:02<Eddi|zuHause3>you can walk through the train
13:02<Phazorx>wasnt that supposde to be 1bit counter?
13:02<stillunknown>the counter in the map is 2bits
13:02|-|lolman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:02<stillunknown>Since common situations do include 2 trains on one tile.
13:02<Phazorx>stillunknown: is that 1 flag 4 cases or 2 flags ?
13:02<Eddi|zuHause3>and if the tile of the next wagon is different than the tile on the current wagon
13:02<Phazorx>and what they would represent ?
13:02<Eddi|zuHause3>you can increase the counter again
13:03<Eddi|zuHause3>that way, the train will be counted multiple times even on recheck
13:03<@Bjarni>stillunknown: notice the last circle... it's normal tracks (no switches or crossings), yet the train is on top of itself
13:03<hylje>silly example is sillyyyyy
13:03<stillunknown>normal track is track that doesn't have branches
13:03<@Bjarni>yeah, but it's a matter of not leaving incorrect cache behind
13:04<stillunknown>But i see the problem of this situation.
13:06<Thomas[NL]>pretty much finished I think:
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>so you can have a function: RecheckTrain(front engine) { for each (wagon) {if (previous tile != this tile) { increase counter } } }
13:06<Eddi|zuHause3>Thomas[NL]: but still the issue is, that vehicles will not drive "behind" the sign, but "over" the sign
13:07<stillunknown>Eddi|zuHause3: I think so too, but i'm not 100% sure.
13:07<@Bjarni>the thing is: whatever we do, it shouldn't kill the performance boost or the whole idea is gone
13:07<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: circling trains should be rare
13:08<Thomas[NL]>Eddi|zuHause3, yes I know, but I don't think I'm the one to solve that :)
13:08<@Bjarni>but the conditions where we should check if they are circling isn't, unless we figure out how to do this right
13:08<Eddi|zuHause3>so if we could find an efficient check, if the train is circling
13:08<Maedhros>Eddi|zuHause3: only if they're drawn as ground tiles
13:09<@Bjarni>I think I have an idea
13:09<@Bjarni>just let it count each time a train passes
13:10<@Bjarni>and solve the issue when the counter reaches 3. When calculating what the counter should be when decreasing, find the front engine and loop though the train to count how many times it passes though the tile in question
13:10<@Bjarni>and make some clever device to ensure that each train is only counted once
13:11<stillunknown>You can keep a crossing counter in the train, were you could use a byte.
13:11<stillunknown>Or even larger.
13:11<@Bjarni>I was thinking about keeping the crossing counter in a function, so it only lives as long as it counts the number of trains on the tile
13:11<Eddi|zuHause3>you could have a flag in the front engine "circling", each time the engine enters a tile with count > 0, you check if it's circling (i.e. loop through all wagons), and each time the last wagon leaves a tile, and circling flag is set, recheck the flag
13:12<@Bjarni>and only call that function whenever the tile should be decreased and the count is 3
13:12<UndernotBuilder>what means 'GRM' in -Codechange: Implement GRM for newcargos
13:12<@Bjarni>then the only time we will really waste CPU cycles is when trains circle or when the count is 3, both rare cases
13:12<Eddi|zuHause3>[2007-06-02 11:09] <Maedhros> grf resource management - designed to avoid conflicts between grf files
13:13<hylje>i think we can even assert out on circling trains
13:13<hylje>its silly enough :-)
13:13<@Bjarni>that can break MP games
13:13[~]peter1138 asserts out hylje
13:13<hylje>yeah well, its nice for dos :)
13:13<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: asserts are for situations that (theoretically) can never occure
13:13<Phazorx>hmm... can someone englighten me on what the flag actualy represents?
13:13<stillunknown>Bjarni: what you want would require each car to check almost all other cars for matches.
13:13[~]Tefad asserts his EXPLICTIVE-DELETED
13:14<stillunknown>More efficient to let the first do the check and the last, and store in the train.
13:14<Kjetil>What kind of a exiting problem av we discussing ?
13:14<Eddi|zuHause3>hylje: e.g. train driving on a tile that has no rail
13:14<@Bjarni>stillunknown: it's in the case where the count is 3 and a reduction is requested, then it should count the trains to see if it should still be 3 or just 2
13:15<Eddi|zuHause3>but train circling is a situation that can occure by the game logic
13:16<stillunknown>Bjarni: It's a bad idea to let the same train count twice, better to let the train register once and unregister it's completely gone.
13:16<@Bjarni>stillunknown: actually how do you plan to figure out if it should be 3 or 2 when the count is 3 and a decrease is requested?
13:17<kaan>I think that counting the same train twice is a nice way to get to check for self collision
13:17<stillunknown>I made a function that uses the hash map, to count when needed.
13:17<@Bjarni>stillunknown: but in order to save CPU cycles, what would we gain most of? making a train count twice in this rare event or add some checks whenever a train enters or leaves a tile?
13:18<Eddi|zuHause3>kaan: actually, the self collision has no game effect, so we don't need to check it, but it is a corner case that kills the cache idea
13:18<kaan>actually, what ever the solution we should make a spin-off snake game out of it ;)
13:19<stillunknown>It is my understanding that the hashmap only gives one entry for a train, but i will have to check if that's an easy way out.
13:20<@Bjarni>the easy way out is not to do anything. We want the bugfree and fast way out of this one ;)
13:20<kaan>Bjarni, the conservative spirit personified :D
13:21<stillunknown>Bjarni: known corner cases need to be handled, preferably in a way that is not expensive the rest of the time
13:21<kaan>But you are right, a change like this should only be made once it is proven to have no ill effects at all
13:22<@Bjarni>stillunknown: and that's why I would put the extra CPU load on the case where the counter is 3 (rare) and don't care about the extra collision tests when the train crosses itself (even more rare)
13:23<@Bjarni>and prevent tests in more common cases
13:23<@Bjarni>like train entering/leaving tile
13:23<stillunknown>But this would still require some awareness of crossing itself.
13:24<kaan>that awareness is not that hard to acheive is it?
13:24|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:24<stillunknown>kaan: I have an idea, which i'm trying.
13:24<kaan>you know the start of the train and you know when the end is exiting
13:24<Phazorx>hmm.. different issue - why is there a train window oppening for many/all players when new train is created??
13:24<Phazorx>new kind of allert?
13:24<Phazorx>sorry recreated
13:25<kaan>so if the start of the train is on the same tile as a wagon that is not the end then we know that a crossing is in progress
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>stillunknown: have you considered my last idea?
13:26<stillunknown>You mean count the number of crossings?
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>not count
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>just flag
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. 1 bit
13:27<Eddi|zuHause3>counting is unnecessary
13:27<kaan>Phazorx: i havent got a clue, is there a bug report on it?
13:28<Wolf01> <- a patch for train collision is here, i don't know if it wokrs
13:28|-|Gorre [] has joined #openttd
13:28<stillunknown>Eddi|ZuHause3: good point
13:28<Eddi|zuHause3>the case is so rare, instead of saving the count, you can just recalculate it
13:28<Phazorx>kaan: i doubt it
13:28<Phazorx>i'm clarifiying if this is expected behavior or not
13:29|-|peterbrett [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:29<Phazorx>if any of devs will join coopers game- you'll see it after 5 min or so
13:29<@peter1138>yeah, problem is the window popping up is based on company, not network client
13:29|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:29|-|HMage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:29<Phazorx>so i take it is unplanned then
13:30<Phazorx>no biggie tho
13:30<@peter1138>unless it's a new one :p
13:32<Phazorx>peter1138: pops up when trains are manualy upgraded
13:32<Phazorx>as in park/sell/buy
13:32<Thomas[NL]>what do you say about: (it got flashy lights on the top :) )
13:32<@peter1138>new bug, not new vehicle
13:33<Phazorx>i figured that
13:33<Phazorx>i guess it can have "feature" status since it is not fatal :)
13:33<@peter1138>well afaik it's done that for a *long* time
13:33<Eddi|zuHause3>Thomas[NL]: looks fun, especially if it is animated :)
13:34<@peter1138>hmm, actually
13:34<@peter1138>it doesn't for me
13:34<Phazorx>peter1138: are you on cooop game?
13:34<Maedhros>Thomas[NL]: that'll look very weird for rvs driving through from the other side ;)
13:35<Thomas[NL]>Maedhros, ooh didn't think of that...
13:35<Wolf01>do competitors vehicles ignore the allowed direction of the road?
13:36<UndernotBuilder>updated to r10026 again by bugfixes?
13:36<Phazorx>peter1138: part of company?
13:36<UndernotBuilder>sorry wrong
13:36|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
13:36<@peter1138>same company yes
13:36<UndernotBuilder>what means 'GRM' in -Codechange: Implement GRM for newcargos
13:37<@peter1138>that same as it meant last time
13:39<Phazorx>peter1138: i see it when other do it
13:39<Phazorx>and when i do it -they see it :/
13:40<kaan>Could we use UndernotBuilders collision system for PBS?
13:41<Tefad>heh revision 10000..
13:41<Tefad>i remember the second svn reset
13:41<Tefad>the first one was a while ago
13:41<stillunknown>Anyone know of function which gives the trackbits for a specific tile number?
13:42<stillunknown>ignore that
13:42<kaan>sorry, not UndernotBuilder, but stillunknown of course *blush*
13:44|-|Mucht_ [] has joined #openttd
13:46|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
13:48|-|MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:50<Phazorx>peter1138: it looks like it happens when moving orders to reassigned car which beciome active engine ?
13:50<Phazorx>cuz if i sell 2nd engine 1st it does not happen
13:50<Phazorx>but if i seel primary - it pops up for most/all players
13:56|-|HMage` [] has joined #openttd
13:58|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
14:00|-|Sleepie [] has joined #openttd
14:02<Eddi|zuHause3><stillunknown> Anyone know of function which gives the trackbits for a specific tile number? <- i'd search in rail_map.h :)
14:03|-|HMage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:12|-|Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:15|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:18|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:19<izhirahider>How can I test trams to be able to see how they work? Do I have to download some extra thing?
14:20<@Bjarni>a tram grf file
14:20<izhirahider>If I get a tram grf file, will it always be available to construction, or do I need to activate an ooption somewhere
14:21<@Bjarni>it will appear in the game when the grf is active
14:22<@Bjarni>as a road type
14:22<@Bjarni>like there are multiple rail types
14:24<izhirahider>why isn't a tram grf included in the repo?
14:24|-|UndernotBuilder [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
14:25<Eddi|zuHause3>izhirahider: same as why there are no alternative railsets included
14:26<izhirahider>there are
14:26<izhirahider>electrical, monorail, maglev
14:27<Maedhros>those are railtypes, and that's because they were in the original game :p
14:28<izhirahider>ah, by railsets you mean same trains but with different namings and image representation
14:29<@peter1138>well no, different trains...
14:29<Sacro>i want 3rd and 4 rail
14:29<izhirahider>Where can I find the tram grf? The wiki doesn't say
14:29<Eddi|zuHause3>where you find all other grfs
14:29<@peter1138>Sacro: draw it and i'll make it
14:30<@Bjarni>Sacro: while you are at it, can you draw narrow gauge as well?
14:30<Maedhros>someone's already done that
14:30<@peter1138>well narrow gauge is already drawn
14:31<izhirahider>Please consider adding grfcrawler to
14:31<@Bjarni>you can do it
14:33<Eddi|zuHause3>if i load a narrow gauge railset, will narrow gauge replace a railtype, or add a railtype?
14:33<Maedhros>it's not possible to add railtypes yet
14:33<Sacro>fine, i'll draw some railtypes
14:33<Sacro>izhirahider: add it yourself :p tis a wiki
14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i thought the system was prepared for this
14:34<@Bjarni>not yet
14:38<Thomas[NL]>do these signs (left road) look a bit like this ?
14:39<Maedhros>it's not easy to make out the arrow - maybe you could make the sign more rectangular?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, looks more like a cross rather than an arrow
14:40<Eddi|zuHause3>pherhaps move the left and right white pixels a little more up
14:40<Sacro>one way should be a rectangle, no entry should be octagonal
14:40<Sacro>so you can differ when facing away
14:41<Eddi|zuHause3>no entry is round
14:41<Eddi|zuHause3>not octagonal
14:41<Sacro>stop is octagonal ><
14:41[~]Sacro fails at driving
14:41<@Bjarni>at driving as well???
14:42<Tefad>no entry is square with circle
14:42<Tefad>and white bar
14:42|-|RamboRonny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:42<hylje>Sacro fails in general
14:42<Sacro>Tefad: no entry should be round
14:42<Tefad>road signs are going to be interesting ; )
14:42<Tefad>US has different signs than EU
14:42<Eddi|zuHause3>Tefad: where do you live?
14:42<Tefad>no entry signs are rectangular with red circle and white horizontal bar in the middle
14:43|-|RamboRonny [] has joined #openttd
14:43<Tefad>sometimes "DO NOT \ ENTER" is written in the red margins of the circle
14:43<Tefad>yes, that's always on a rectangular sign
14:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the sign is round, not rectangular
14:43<Tefad>it's rectangular
14:44<Tefad>i've never seen it on a round sign in the US
14:44<Thomas[NL]>yeah I'll write Do no enter on the sign :P
14:44<hylje>DO NOT WANT
14:44<Tefad>i don't think i've seen round signs in the US
14:44<Tefad>other than RR crossing signs
14:45<Eddi|zuHause3> <- these also mean no entry, but not in combination with one-way roads
14:45<Eddi|zuHause3>most signs in europe are round
14:45<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: that means no vehicles
14:45<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro: exactly, vehicles may not enter
14:45<Sacro>going either way
14:46<@Bjarni>it's usually combined with a sign telling exceptions like busses, local residents or similar
14:47<Thomas[NL]>any better now?
14:47<Sacro> <- WEEEEEEEEE
14:47<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, better
14:48<Eddi|zuHause3>it's difficult on that scale :)
14:48<Thomas[NL]>indeed :)
14:48<Sacro>though i'd prefer the arrow to be on a vertical rectangle
14:49<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro: that forbids powered vehicles, but allows unpowered vehicles (bikes etc.)
14:49<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: yes i know
14:50<Thomas[NL]>I'll try Sacro
14:50<@peter1138>Sacro: re drawing railtypes, i do have a plan for adding them, see...
14:50<@peter1138>so it'll be useful...
14:50<hylje>its not like we have bicycle traffic here
14:51<Sacro>peter1138: oh? cos i know the LUSet would like 4 rail to run on
14:51<Sacro>and i think BRSet would use 3rd rail
14:52<Eddi|zuHause3>can i have overhead rail? ( :p
14:52<hylje>wuppertal is silly :-p
14:52<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause3: surely you just render the track after the train?
14:53<Eddi|zuHause3>although that is technically a tram
14:53<hylje>Sacro: and reasonably higher
14:55<Sacro>now shall i reboot into linux and do some graphics
14:56<izhirahider>How do I know if I'm using DOS or WIN grfs?
14:56<@peter1138>that just looks like a hanging monorail to me ;p
14:56<hylje>izhirahider: win grfs tend to have "w" appended to the filename before .grf
14:56<@Bjarni>izhirahider: if you see a lot of pink in the sprites, then it's the DOS ones
14:57<Thomas[NL]>Sacro, does this look more like a vertical rectangle?
14:58<Sacro>Thomas[NL]: it looks a bit better, yeah
14:58<Eddi|zuHause3>gets confused with the questionmark, i assume
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>as questionmarks are reserved for dynamic content
14:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i liked the previous one better
14:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: richk * r10027 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (313 files in 21 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r9506-10026
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>that was a huge commit :p
15:00<izhirahider>Bjarni, I see pink and brown
15:00<izhirahider>Mostly brown road, full of dots
15:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i have never seen a 500 revisions sync before :)
15:01|-|dihedral [] has joined #openttd
15:01<Eddi|zuHause3>most of the time, people would do 5 times 100 revisions
15:01<Eddi|zuHause3>or similar
15:03<@peter1138>richk is not known for his syncing skills :p
15:04<Sacro>ooh, he's still alive then
15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10028 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:
15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r2270/r2951): When deleting the first engine of a train with multiple
15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: engines, only reopen the train window if the player had the original train
15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: window open. This fixes 'random' windows opening for multiple players of the
15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: same company.
15:09|-|peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
15:09<hylje>i just had some random trainz popping up
15:09<Sacro>them are some old stats
15:10<@peter1138>freenode? hehe
15:11<Sacro>yeah, but the list of people too
15:11<Sacro>Celestar, Hackykid, DarkSSH
15:11<@peter1138>oh, you're still here. shame ;p
15:11<hylje>i expected that
15:11<Sacro>what happened to LoTP?
15:11<@peter1138>singaporekid, hehe
15:12<@Bjarni>heh, in those stats, everybody talks about OpenTTD, except Eddi|zuHause3 :p
15:12<Eddi|zuHause3>hehe :p
15:12<@peter1138>might've been talking about a track from ttd...
15:12<@Bjarni><Sacro> what happened to LoTP? <-- he took a hike and never returned
15:13<@Bjarni>or something
15:13<Eddi|zuHause3>"Statistics generated on Friday 26 January 2007" <- it's not exactly current
15:13<hylje>its on freenode
15:13<@Bjarni>you mean you like to be less off topic now?
15:13<@Bjarni>do anybody have an up to date one?
15:13<hylje>but i could generate
15:14<@peter1138>hee, official
15:14<@peter1138>i talk the most? :o
15:14<hylje>you just had three lines that
15:14<hylje>its more likely than you think
15:15<Sacro>^_^ wrote an average of 46.00 words per line.
15:15<hylje>i could top that
15:15<@Bjarni>"it's like denying you're human" <-- jez did that?
15:15<hylje>by faking a nickname and going "a a a..."
15:15<Eddi|zuHause3>Ailure talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 296 times! <- now that is impressive :p
15:15<hylje>Sacro couldn't decide whether to stay or go. 842 joins during this reporting period!
15:15<hylje>paste tiem
15:16<Sacro> newstats
15:16<hylje>magic stats
15:16<@peter1138>nick "i"
15:16<@peter1138> :/
15:16<hylje>what about you
15:16<@Bjarni>Bjarni spoke a total of 214766 words!
15:16<hylje>i mean
15:16<@Bjarni>heh, I use more words than peter1138
15:17|-|moe [] has quit []
15:17<hylje>u r teh bjarni!
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, someone should join the stats of TrueLight and TrueBrain
15:17|-|moe [] has joined #openttd
15:17<guru3>Sacro: :o
15:17|-|Tobin [] has joined #openttd
15:17<Sacro>he found us
15:17<guru3>i had no idea those were still updating
15:17<guru3>or really
15:18<guru3>i had no idea anyone was still using the domain
15:18<@Bjarni>It seems that Xera's shift-key is hanging: 10.5% of the time he/she wrote UPPERCASE.
15:18<@Bjarni>For example, like this:
15:18<@Bjarni> <Xera> XDDD
15:18<guru3>good old massive waste of cpu power
15:19<@Bjarni>Poor Sacro, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 32 times.
15:19<@Bjarni>I knew that
15:19[~]Bjarni slaps Sacro
15:19<@Bjarni>now it's 33 times
15:19[~]Sacro slaps Bjarni
15:19<guru3>CIA is sad lol
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni is a very aggressive person. He/She attacked others 40 times.
15:19<Eddi|zuHause3>32 times of that Sacro, i believe :p
15:19|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [there is no way that you should be allowed to attack me]
15:20|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:20|-|Bjarni kicked [#openttd] peter1138 [why not?]
15:20|-|Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
15:20|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
15:20[~]Sacro slaps Bjarni
15:20|-|elmex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:20<dihedral>how would i go about using tram roads in r 10002?
15:20<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: load a tram grf
15:20<dihedral>just thought i'd have a little peek at one of the nightleys
15:21<dihedral>makes sense
15:21<guru3>well i'm glad someone looks at the irc stats everynow and then
15:21<guru3>i'll just quietly fade into the backgrond again now
15:21[~]guru3 fades
15:21<moe>btw ther is a narrow gauge somewhere on grftracker
15:21<dihedral>neatly done guru3
15:21<moe>its fot ttd and ottd
15:22<@Bjarni>Ailure talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 291 times!
15:22<@Bjarni>Another lonely one was CIA-1, who managed to hit 221 times.
15:22<@Bjarni>CIA is lonely :D
15:22<guru3>for some reason i forgot to escape cia 1, 2, and 13
15:22<hylje>ailure just punctuates with return
15:22<guru3>that'll be fixed on the next update
15:22[~]guru3 fades again
15:22<Rubidium>CIA is still learning; speak after me: "...." ;)
15:24|-|Purno [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<@peter1138>yay, simutrans
15:31<@peter1138>yay, all my towns start off huge
15:33[~]Wolf01 is sad :(
15:34<@Bjarni>wanna play OpenTTD 0.9.1?
15:34<Wolf01>because i can't fix the bug
15:42|-|OwenS [] has joined #openttd
15:43<@Bjarni>bbl later. Power died :(
15:43|-|De_Ghosty [] has joined #openttd
15:43[~]Bjarni is once again happy for his UPS
15:43|-|Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:43<De_Ghosty>bump max player to 16 please :)
15:44|-|Quit [] has joined #openttd
15:46|-|Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
15:51|-|HMage` [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:52|-|thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:54<Thomas[NL]>hmm trams turn around on top of road-construction-sites.
15:55<Wolf01>i don't like trams turn-around too, i like more a turn-around in the center of the tiles
15:56<Rubidium>Wolf01: not going to happen when you want to be newgrf compatible
15:57|-|Gorre [] has quit []
15:59<@peter1138>saw the other day
16:02|-|peterbrett [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:02|-|Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:05<@peter1138>no aftermath pictures :(
16:05<stillunknown>Why doesn't vehicle have both next and prev pointers?
16:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10029 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9923): trams should not/cannot turn on roadworks.
16:10<Wolf01>they should go straight on the bulldozer or simply stop?
16:16|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
16:22<De_Ghosty>they should run down the bulldozer
16:23<Zuu>Nice thing with working with the hotkey-patch: learn all neat hotkeys I did not knew about.. :)
16:25<Rubidium>yup, quite understandable
16:26|-|Quit [] has quit []
16:26[~]Sacro dances to the prodigy :D
16:26<dihedral>Sacro: fuck the fucking fuckers
16:26<@peter1138>do do do de do do, do do do de do do, do do do do do do do do do do do de do do
16:27<Sacro>breathe the pressure, come play my game i'll test you
16:29<Thomas[NL]>How do you think about using signs as one-way road markers?
16:30<Maedhros>i'd rather use them than the arrows, personally :)
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>i like the signs
16:31[~]Sacro will brb
16:31<Thomas[NL]>So it may get into trunk some time :)?
16:32<Thomas[NL]>the coding
16:32<Eddi|zuHause3>i have no authority to decide that, unfortunately :p
16:33<Maedhros>you can already change the arrows using action 5, so it shouldn't be too difficult to support signs instead
16:33<Maedhros>s/instead/as well/
16:35<Thomas[NL]>ok great :)
16:35<Eddi|zuHause3>you need some information to decide if it should be drawn on the road (arrow) or in front of the road (sign), for correct sprite sorting
16:35<Maedhros>but now 'tis time for bed
16:35<Maedhros>see you all in a week :)
16:35<Thomas[NL]>good night
16:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know if the newgrf spec is prepared for that
16:39|-|Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:46|-|XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.]
16:47<kaan>oh man, Danmark-Sverige footballmatch has gone all wrong
16:48|-|geoffk [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:49<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't remember this being a football channel...
16:57|-|geoffk [] has joined #openttd
17:07|-|Thomas[NL] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:10|-|RamboRonny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:10|-|dihedral [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
17:22<Ailure>[22:14] <Eddi|zuHause3> Ailure talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 296 times! <- now that is impressive :p
17:23<Ailure>Heh, I have a tendancy to write severeal lines at once so i'm not really surprised.
17:24<stillunknown>Let's improve that stats.
17:25|-|RamboRonny [] has joined #openttd
17:26|-|Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:28|-|_Ben_ [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
17:38<OwenS>Guys, have you never considered using C bitflags instead of the GB/SB/HASBIT macros you have now?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause3>what do you mean?
17:43<OwenS>C has bitflag support in structures
17:43<OwenS>unsigned (char, etc) blah: 2, second: 1, third: 3, etc
17:44<OwenS>Packs them all into a byte
17:44|-|Ben_1 [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
17:44<OwenS>It's little known, but surprisingly well supported
17:44<Rubidium>it's considered, but never actually used (in trunk)
17:44<Rubidium>branches/map uses it
17:45<OwenS>Shame, it makes things so much neater
17:45|-|ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
17:46|-|_Ben_ [~Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:46<Rubidium>is there a guarantee in which order those 'bits' are stored (as per C++ specifications)?
17:46<OwenS>Theyre stored in order AFAIK. I know several small OS projects use them that way though, for processor structures
17:46|-|Apocalipsys [~Apocalips@] has left #openttd []
17:48<Rubidium>but do they care about binary compatability between big and little endian?
17:49<Rubidium>and moving bits around gets (probably) impossible
17:50<Rubidium>like you swapped bits 0..1 with 2..3 in your blah, second, third example
17:52|-|Ben_1 [~Ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:52<OwenS>Dunno about endianness issues
17:52<Rubidium>and using the same bits used in multiple tile types gets probably uglier too ( RT GetRailType(tile) { return IsTileType(tile, street) ? tile.street.rail_type : tile.rail.rail_type; } (also needs tunnels and bridges and stations)
17:52<OwenS>Although that won't matter for bytes
17:53<Rubidium>but not everything is bytesized
17:53<OwenS>Use a union and multiple sets of bit flags? Have a tile.all.rail_type or something similar
17:53<OwenS>Thats an issue
17:53<OwenS>It stores them in the system native order. I'm assuming it does already and you swap them?
17:54<Rubidium>that would "waste" four bits in everything that is not a level crossing, rail tunnel/bridge/station
17:54<OwenS>tile.rail. then
17:55<Rubidium>but then you have problems with stations (they are a different tile type)
17:55<Rubidium>and even per tile type you've got differences
17:55<Rubidium>like for road tiles
17:55<Rubidium>you've got "normal road", "level crossing" and "depot"
17:56<Rubidium>in the case of "normal road" you need 4 bits for each roadtype, in the case of "level crossing" you only need 1 bit to give the direction of both the rail and all roadtypes
17:59<Rubidium>and for "level crossings" you need to store 4 owners
18:02<Eddi|zuHause3>road, tram, rail, what is the 4th?
18:02<Rubidium>where the space that is used in "normal" roads fort the road owner, is the rail owner in a "level crossing" as it's way more important that the rail owner is always using the same bits than the road owner. This because road vehicles don't care about ownership, whereas train do care
18:02<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: a yet unspecified/unimplemented third roadtype
18:03|-|peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
18:03|-|peterbrett [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:04<stillunknown>Anyone who understands the "coordinate" system of the hash map?
18:04<stillunknown>(vehicle hash map)
18:04<Rubidium>I guess Chris does
18:07<Rubidium>coordinate system?
18:09|-|_Ben_ [~Ben@] has joined #openttd
18:10|-|dihedral [] has joined #openttd
18:10<Rubidium>I think it's in the "on screen" coordinate system; where it would be shown on the giant screenshot
18:10<dihedral>question :-)
18:10|-|TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:10|-|kaan [~Klaus@] has left #openttd []
18:10<_Ben_>Bit late, but well done for getting to r10000. really great stuff. Thanks to all who are working on it
18:11<dihedral>could the way a map is sent from server to client not be used to send grf files?
18:11<dihedral>or is the map data send in some paticular way?
18:11<TrueBrain>we need a FAQ....
18:11<OwenS>dihedral: I'm not an expert, but AFAIK all it does is send a save file?
18:12<OwenS>(Someone else can answer better)
18:12<TrueBrain>OwenS: you are correct
18:12<TrueBrain>dihedral: grfs can not be send, because of copyright issues
18:12<dihedral>i mean the new grf files... not the copyrighted ones
18:12<TrueBrain>I mean the newgrf files
18:12<TrueBrain>long blabla
18:12<TrueBrain>that is why we need a FAQ :p
18:12<Rubidium>those are copyrighted...
18:12<OwenS>TrueBrain: The copyright issue wouldn't land with OpenTTD however, if it sent newgrfs. It would land with the server owner
18:12<TrueBrain>that question comes around every.... 2 weeks now?
18:13<OwenS>They could turn it off if they wanted
18:13<Rubidium>OwenS: the problem is that most NewGRF authors have an explicit license that states that you cannot redistribute the NewGRF
18:13<dihedral>i did not know that those new grf files were copyrighted
18:14<Touqen>dihedral: The person who draws them owns the copyright
18:14<TrueBrain>okay, I made a boo-hoo, copyright was the wrong word, license is the correct one :)
18:14<Rubidium>allowing to do so would violate the license and harm the OTTD community more than the "good" you would have from autodownload
18:14<Touqen>Just like this sentence is copyrighted by me. :D
18:14<Wolf01>'night all
18:14|-|Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:14|-|lolman [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:14<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: everything is copyrighted
18:14<Touqen>Not everything.
18:15<dihedral>yeah - i also meant licensed
18:15<OwenS>I'd be surprised if anyone was that peed off about it sending automatically
18:15<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I just never get why they used such a license....
18:15<Eddi|zuHause3>the question is how far people will go to let copying occure anyway
18:15|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
18:16<OwenS>Hmm, it seems that i've finished stage one of 3 of my project =)
18:16<Touqen>Creative Commons!
18:16<Touqen>Your project being?
18:16<Eddi|zuHause3>Touqen: in germany, you cannot even voluntarily give away the copyright, you can just license it
18:16<OwenS>Thats why I like BSD...
18:17<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause3: but one can just not care and there aint an issue then either
18:17<Rubidium>TrueBrain: to quote PikkaBird: "...what I don't want is outdated versions of my grfs spread all over the internet, with people complaining to me about bugs that were fixed years ago, or asking silly questions about features which are explained on my website or wiki. Basically, it's a support-minimisation ploy, as well as quality control (making sure that when people go and download one of my grfs, they're getting the latest version)."
18:17<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: it does not matter what you care about, it's what the particular grf author care about
18:18<Touqen>sounds reasonable to me
18:18<TrueBrain>Rubidium: what was the result about the talk of adding a flag that indicates if distribution is allowed?
18:18<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause3: "one" as in the author
18:18<Rubidium>well, that "flag" would be violated within like 10 seconds from it being committed
18:19<TrueBrain>true, but at least we did our best...
18:19<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: but it is not for you to decide wether they should care or not
18:19<OwenS>openttd now quits normally as soon as it starts
18:19<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause3: just saying that they have the option to not care :-P
18:20<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: but that has nothing to do with the distribution
18:20<dihedral>how come one of these authers is able to say something is free and can be downloaded, just not redistributed
18:21<OwenS>dihedral: License agreements
18:21<dihedral>if something is free, it's free?
18:21<TrueBrain>dihedral: besides Public Domain, nothing is really 'free'
18:21<TrueBrain>just 'free of costs'
18:21<TrueBrain>OpenTTD isn't really 'free' either
18:22<dihedral>i like gpl
18:22<TrueBrain>if you make a modification and distribute the binary, you HAVE TO publish your source too
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>it is not about free, read the above statement, it is about reading readmes and version control and stuff
18:22<dihedral>TrueBrain: aint anything wrong with that
18:22<TrueBrain>dihedral: and I am not debating that :)
18:22<dihedral>although i though it was 'make available upon request'
18:22<OwenS>Thought about including libcurl and libunzip? =P So you can point the clients to download the GRFs from the author
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: there are enough people who violate the GPL
18:23<TrueBrain>dihedral: it is a tiny bit stronger :)
18:23<OwenS>TrueBrain: Actually, it does say make the source available on request (Legally without fail)
18:23<dihedral>actually i did not want to start a legal discussion here
18:23<Sacro>TrueBrain: there are several openttd related violations of the gpl
18:23<TrueBrain>but okay, a license can disallow redistriution, where they allow the rest to be 'free'
18:23<TrueBrain>Sacro: like? :)
18:23<Eddi|zuHause3>it also says you have to give contact information to send the request to
18:24<OwenS>Hmm.. Why the hell would it try to start up and not continue? =S
18:24<Sacro>TrueBrain: UIQ3 port, GP2X port
18:24<TrueBrain>Sacro: so someone should send them an email
18:24<TrueBrain>we did with the PocketPC port
18:24<Sacro>TrueBrain: yes...
18:24<dihedral>what about encoding the grf files from the server in the map when sending the data to the client so available for that connection?
18:25<Rubidium>dihedral: encoding in what manner?
18:25<OwenS>It would still legally be illegal..
18:25<dihedral>wrong word again
18:25<dihedral>but having the grf data available in the map file
18:25<TrueBrain>dihedral: by the license, nothing and nobody is allowed to redistribute the grfs, in any form :)
18:25<dihedral>i.e. grf is stored in the map
18:25<TrueBrain>it is not like if you scan a book, you can freely distribute it
18:25<TrueBrain>after all, you made it available in an other format (??)
18:25<Rubidium>dihedral: means embedding the GRF in the map, which means you're redistributing it
18:26|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>just live with the fact that this feature will not be implemented
18:26<OwenS>Guys, this is REALLY strange
18:26<Eddi|zuHause3>it has been discussed many dozen times
18:27<OwenS>OpenTTD is exiting before printing any messages, cleanly
18:27<dihedral>how about sending the client the source url from where it can be downloaded and the client gets it from there automatically?
18:27<TrueBrain>OwenS: even with -dall=9?
18:27<dihedral>redistributing the url in no way can be a legal issue
18:27<OwenS>TrueBrain: OK, not I have a tonne of output
18:27<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: that's what grfcrawler is for
18:27<TrueBrain>dihedral: see grfcrawler
18:28<TrueBrain>besides, PikkaBird won't have older versions available, so if you want to join a server which has
18:28<dihedral>sorry for blasting out so many questions :-S
18:28<TrueBrain>you are fucked!
18:28<TrueBrain>dihedral: write them down in a wiki page, so we can just point people to there next time :p
18:28<OwenS>Has the old PBS GRF been removed? :(
18:28<TrueBrain>I am serious in fact
18:28<OwenS>I was using it trmporarily
18:29<dihedral>TrueBrain: i would not believe it was anything else
18:29<Eddi|zuHause3>there was never a PBS grf
18:30<TrueBrain>btw, did you guys know that GPLv2 states this:
18:30<TrueBrain> a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
18:30<TrueBrain> stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.
18:30<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause3: I mean the one with the PBS signal in
18:30<Eddi|zuHause3>the PBS signal pictures are still there
18:30<Eddi|zuHause3>just they are not used
18:31<OwenS>Oh good
18:31<Zuu>TrueBrain: Does that include anything that is commited to svn?
18:31<TrueBrain>Zuu: no, as we in fact own our own copyright to the code :)
18:31<dihedral>well then
18:31<Sacro>i would assume that svn can cover that..
18:31<dihedral>good night guys
18:31<Zuu>TrueBrain: Phew :)
18:32<Eddi|zuHause3>OwenS: the last build that had "working" PBS was the miniin
18:32<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause3: I don't want PBS. I just want the graphic
18:32<TrueBrain>and besides, SVN in fact does keep track of exactly that, but rather less explicit :)
18:32<dihedral>and thanks for letting me bother you :-D
18:32<OwenS>Can someone point me to two free signal bits? =)
18:32<TrueBrain>but based on that rule, I think almost all patches and modifications out there violate GPLv2 :)
18:32<TrueBrain>night dihedral
18:32|-|dihedral [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
18:32<Eddi|zuHause3>like i said, the graphics are still there
18:32<Eddi|zuHause3>in nsignalsw.grf, or so
18:34<Eddi|zuHause3>TrueBrain: why? the patch files clearly contain all changes, and usually the files have a date of last change
18:34<TrueBrain>_stating_ that _you_ changed the files and the _date_ of any change
18:34<TrueBrain>patches miss the 'you' part and a 'date' of change :)
18:35<OwenS>Are M2 bits 3 and 7 free?
18:35<Eddi|zuHause3>sure, you can be overly pedantic :)
18:35<Rubidium>see landscape.html and landscape_grid.html
18:36<OwenS>I forgot M2 was a 16-bit number =P
18:36<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause3: it is what GPLv2 says :)
18:36<OwenS>But, 3 and 7 are free =D
18:37|-|Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:40|-|_Ben_ [~Ben@] has left #openttd [Leaving]
18:43<OwenS>Aah! It's a dedicated build
18:48|-|Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:51<OwenS>Oh good, stage one of programmable signals complete =)
18:53|-|Progman [] has joined #openttd
18:58|-|Osai [] has joined #openttd
18:58[~]OwenS installs Lua
18:59<OwenS>Nah... Luas more common
18:59<OwenS>And for how much codes involved, easy enough (They will look identical)
18:59<OwenS>And Lua doesn't have the class overhead
18:59<Rubidium>OwenS: look at the NoAI branch
18:59<TrueBrain>you should install squirrel if you want this thing to ever hit trunk :)
19:00<OwenS>In that case...
19:00<TrueBrain>all the ground work for SQ is done :p
19:00<Rubidium>you can even checkout squirrel from ottds svn
19:00<OwenS>I don't need no stinking groundwork :p
19:00<OwenS>Ooh.. Whats the SVN path?
19:01<TrueBrain>and again, you want to use our groundwork if you ever want this to hit trunk :)
19:01[~]OwenS checks out & builds
19:01|-|KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:01|-|Osai [] has quit []
19:01<OwenS>TrueBrain: For the ammount of code involved, does it really matter?
19:01<TrueBrain>the squirrel in SVN btw is slightly modified to work with OpenTTD
19:01|-|skidd13 [] has left #openttd []
19:02<OwenS>No configure? :O
19:02<TrueBrain>OwenS: NoAI branch contains all needed things to add SQ for anything fast
19:02<TrueBrain>like you can register your class to SQ in a very simple way
19:02<OwenS>I just need to create a state, execute a line of code and dispose of it as fast as possible
19:03<OwenS>I'm guessing theres supposed to be a ./configure? It won't compile...
19:03<TrueBrain>you might not want to do that, because of the overhead
19:03<TrueBrain>keeping the VM alive and excute it over and over
19:03<TrueBrain>might be much faster
19:03<OwenS>Otherwise I have to serialise the state to the save file though
19:03<TrueBrain>why would you?
19:03<TrueBrain>in your way you can not store any data either :)
19:04<OwenS>Because otherwise your signals might change behaviour after save+load since the state hasn't persisted and your signals were buggy
19:04<TrueBrain>but okay, just for fun, look around in NoAI SQ handling, you might like it :)
19:04<OwenS>I'll see how fast it is anyway
19:04<TrueBrain>Night all
19:04<OwenS>I would if Squirrel would build...
19:04<TrueBrain>look at NoAI branch to include it in default OpenTTD build system
19:04<OwenS>sqtable.h:21: error: cast from ‘SQRefCounted*’ to ‘SQInteger’ loses precision"
19:05<TrueBrain>good luck :)
19:05<OwenS>I'm guessing I need to tell it to compile for 64-bits...
19:05<OwenS>Aha! make sq64
19:07<OwenS>OK... someone tell me how to install Squirrel...
19:07<OwenS>(So GCC finds it)
19:09<+glx>you don't need to install it (in NoAI, it is compiled and linked into openttd)
19:10<OwenS>Hmm, so how do I link it to the trunk? :p
19:11|-|RamboRonny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:11<+glx>do it like in noai, there's an external in src, and the squirrel files are added to source.list
19:12<OwenS>Yeah, I saw
19:12<+glx>works well like that :)
19:13<OwenS>Hmm.. /home/oshepherd/Projects/openttd/prog/src/3rdparty/squirrel/sqstdlib/sqstdaux.cpp:2:22: error: squirrel.h: No such file or directory
19:15|-|Frostregen [] has quit [Quit: und weg]
19:16|-|setrodox [] has quit [Quit: Hapiness ;D]
19:17|-|Sleepie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17<OwenS>... =(
19:17|-|Frostregen [] has joined #openttd
19:19<+glx>atound line 808 in config.lib
19:19<+glx>(noai of course)
19:19<OwenS>Yeah, I scanned config.lib for sq
19:19<OwenS>I was naively looking for it in ./configure
19:22<OwenS>>.< It's still trying to cast a pointer to an integer
19:23<OwenS>Squirrel's API reminds me of Lua's :)
19:25<+glx>"Squirrel is inspired by languages like Python,Javascript and expecially Lua(The API is very similar and the table code is based on the Lua one)" <-- from :)
19:25<OwenS>I read... I learnt about Squirrel before
19:29<OwenS>Which order does sq_set expect it's parameters in?
19:29<OwenS>It doesn't say =(
19:34|-|Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:34|-|mikk36 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:35|-|mikk36 [] has joined #openttd
19:37|-|Frostregen [] has joined #openttd
19:47|-|OwenS [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies]
19:47|-|RamboRonny [] has joined #openttd
20:30|-|Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
20:37|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43|-|bencvt [] has joined #openttd
20:55|-|De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10|-|sPooT [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:10|-|CIA-1 [~CIA@] has quit []
21:18|-|RamboRonny [] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.3 - -]
21:24|-|CIA-1 [~CIA@] has joined #openttd
21:32|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
21:38<Ammler>grat for 10000
22:17|-|glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:20|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:21|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:37|-|Progman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48|-|shinobi001 [] has joined #openttd
22:50|-|Progman [] has joined #openttd
23:00|-|tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:03|-|tokai [] has joined #openttd
23:03|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
23:40|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:46|-|shinobi001 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
---Logclosed Sun Jun 03 00:00:17 2007