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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-03

---Logopened Sun Jun 03 00:00:17 2007
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02:56<Luukland>Heya, can someone tell me what i have to do to load a scenario on a dedicated server (Windows)
02:56<Luukland>It is something with -g "blabla.scn"
02:56<Luukland>but where do i type that?
02:56<@peter1138>on the command like
02:57<Luukland>in the dedicted server?
02:57<Luukland>or ingame?
02:57<@peter1138>no, from a command line
02:58<Luukland>:s /me does not understand >_<
02:58<@peter1138>command line. where you type commands.
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02:58|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
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03:02<Luukland>It works :)
03:02<Luukland>peter1138 may i thank you?
03:02<@Bjarni>it's mandatory
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03:07[~]Luukland graps his mp4k, and shoots on his server!!
03:07<Luukland>work you $%^*%**& thing!!
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03:14<@Bjarni>hi Wolf01
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03:20<OwenS>Hmm, I seem to be having a problem with Squirrel
03:20<OwenS>My signal has encountered an error....
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03:21<stillunknown>Anyone know a reliable (and simple) way to discover the number of unique vehicles (full trains, not cars)?
03:21<stillunknown>on a tile
03:21<Luukland>no idea :P
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03:27<@peter1138>FOR_ALL_VEHICLES ;p
03:30<Luukland>and Peter if my server says disconnected with error: 10054
03:30<Luukland>where can i find a list with those errors?
03:32<Luukland>nad further Rubidium?
03:32<Luukland>nv found it
03:33<stillunknown>peter1138: something a little less expensive
03:33<stillunknown>please ;-)
03:37<@Bjarni>stillunknown: that's one of the issues... there is no less expensive way
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03:43<stillunknown>Bjarni: Do you happen to know the best choice for a scaleable container datatype?
03:44<Noldo>which language?
03:45<stillunknown>C or C++
03:45<Noldo>c++ stdlib has many nice ones, what is your need?
03:47<OwenS>std::map, std::vector, std::stack/std::queue in some cases
03:47<OwenS>(I'm using a std::map at the moment...)
03:47<@Bjarni>I think it depends on what you want to use it for
03:47<OwenS>std::map: associative, std::vector: growable array, std::stack: LIFO stack, std::queue: FIFO stack
03:48<stillunknown>Noldo: Something that can expand itself without costing too much, array style
03:48<OwenS>std::vector then
03:48<stillunknown>Are the costs for that ok?
03:48<@Bjarni>it depends..
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03:48<Noldo>do you need random access?
03:48<@Bjarni>do you plan on expanding in the end of it or add just somewhere in the list
03:49<@Bjarni>and remove from the end or anywhere
03:49<@Bjarni>if it is in the end, then vector
03:49<@Bjarni>if you want to add/remove in the middle all the time, then list
03:49<stillunknown>I just plan to push back, and at the end dump the whole thing.
03:49<@Bjarni>then it's vector
03:49<OwenS>Then it should be fast enough
03:50<OwenS>If you can reasonably guess how big its gonna get, then tell it when you create it to help it be faster :P
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03:50<Nickman>hi all :)
03:51<@Bjarni>hi nick
03:51<Nickman>long time since I've been on the IRC channel :)
03:51<stillunknown>OwenS: it will be in the order of a few elements in most cases
03:51<OwenS>stillunknown: If you can reasonabl.y guess how big it's gonna get, add a couple and initialize it to that size
03:52<@Bjarni>stillunknown: usually if the number of elements is below 1000, then it doesn't matter much which container type you use. If it's below 100, then just pick one
03:52<Nickman>I'm off to lunch, be back in a few minutes ;)
03:52<stillunknown>I know, i have worked with std::vector before, just wasn't sure if the price was acceptable.
03:52<OwenS>Yay! Stage 2 of 4 of my programmable signals patch is functional!
03:52<OwenS>of 5, sorry
03:52<Noldo>OwenS: what are the stages?
03:52<@Bjarni>what would be an improvement to vectors in your case?
03:53<OwenS>1 = Get a NAND, 2 = Get it executing code, 3 = Make the code customizable, 4 = Make it save, 5 = Make it faster
03:53<OwenS>Not AND gate
03:53<Wolf01>OwenS, always at work at the nand signal patch? :D
03:53<OwenS>Wolf01: No, it's a complete replacement
03:54<Wolf01>yes in squirrel, but it is always the nand :D
03:54<OwenS>But, if you want a NAND, "if(exfree == exits) state = false; else state = true;"
03:54<OwenS>exitsfree. sorry :p
03:55<OwenS>Hmm, guys, how would you suggest I implement the way someone can set the code on a signal?
03:55<OwenS>I could add it to the toolbar, but it's useless for most signals
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03:56<Noldo>OwenS: make list of premade snippets and then you can select from those?
03:56<OwenS>Noldo: But sometimes you may want a completely custom signal
03:57<Noldo>OwenS: then add new and a window where you can type it
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03:57<OwenS>Noldo: I am. Just how would I add the way of opening that window
03:58<OwenS>I now have a Squirrel NAND =P
03:58<Noldo>or if you are lazy just import the snippets from text file that people can edit like a normal file
03:58<OwenS>No, I already know how to create that window. What I meant is, should I create a toolbar button, or...
03:59<Noldo>if you have the list where you can select. That should have add new and edit buttons
03:59<OwenS>I'm making this for a patchless trunk
04:00<OwenS>Bjarni: Any suggestions?
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04:05<Nickman>OwenS: Or you should make somthing that you can click on the signal when it is already placed, this will open up a window where you can enter the code?
04:05<OwenS>I don't know the OpenTTD code well enough...
04:06<Nickman>then I think the most lkely way is to be able to enter the code before you place it...
04:06<Vikthor>Nickman: This has a small problem both click and ctrl+click have already function assigned
04:07<boekabart>alt is no option
04:07<@peter1138>can't use alt
04:07<boekabart>shift is
04:07<Nickman>or maybe...
04:07<@peter1138>shift is estimate
04:07<OwenS>So all modfiers are used...
04:07<boekabart>so new button
04:07<boekabart>good morning btw :)
04:08<Nickman>you have to select a certein option from the signal building menu (like the buildoser) and when you then click on the signal, you get the edit window...
04:08<Nickman>good morning ;)
04:08<boekabart>no, that's 'estimate the ctrl action'
04:09<Nickman>Just make a "code" button just like the buldozer?
04:09<OwenS>How do I add a new toolbar button and tool then?
04:09<Nickman>so when it is selected and you click on the signal, the window pops up :)
04:09<Nickman>that's a good question :D
04:10<boekabart>OwenS: For a pretty straightforward example,
04:10<Nickman>What editor do you guys use for OpenTTD?
04:10<OwenS>Nickman: GEdit and Make :P
04:10<boekabart>look at my patch for town name languages
04:10<boekabart>(forum, development)
04:10<Nickman>Hehe, you really are hardcore ;)
04:10<Wolf01>OwenS, is very easy to add widgets now ;)
04:11<OwenS>Oh good =)
04:11<Nickman>Wolf01: you code on windows?
04:11<boekabart>Wolf01: why don't you use MSVC ?
04:11<Nickman>you compile with cygwin?
04:11<Nickman>or something else?
04:12<Wolf01>i hate IDEs, so i use notepad++ and mingw via msys
04:12<OwenS>boekabart: It only adds a button? Is the process the same for a toolbar?
04:12<Wolf01>cygwin compiles but the game has black windows
04:12<boekabart>OwenS: The patch you can check for an easy example:
04:12<boekabart>peter1138: Do you have time to take a look at it too? :)
04:14<Nickman>Wolf01: Do you need to set some special libraries to use or not? I remember having a hard time getting it to work in MSVC :)
04:15<Wolf01>with cygwin i got some troubles with libraries, with msys i followed the wiki and always worked
04:15<Nickman>ah :)
04:16<Nickman>I'll try it by going trough the wiki ;)
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04:23<Nickman>When I get more free time I'll start looking in to the OpenTTD code ;). Right now I'm having exams... :p
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04:32<OwenS>How do I get the rail toolbar window?
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04:33<Nickman>Wolf01: I think s omething whent wrong with my wget install ...
04:34<OwenS>No, I mean, from a PlaceRail_xx function, which doesn't get passed it as a parameter
04:34<Wolf01>you mean where is called the gui opening?
04:34<OwenS>No, I want to get a pointer to the shown rail toolbar's window
04:35<Wolf01>look in main_gui.cpp, maybe you find something there
04:36<Wolf01>arggghghghhg the city is eating my highway!!!
04:37<Nickman>Wolf01: I don't see a "usr" folder in my MYSYS folder, is this normal? since I created it...
04:37<Wolf01>just follow the wiki
04:37<Nickman>I am :p
04:37<Wolf01>i can't remember all the steps
04:39<stillunknown>Bjarni: Why can't trains just crash into themselves :-(
04:40<Nickman>Wolf01: I get this when running the wget sh script :
04:40<Nickman>This is at the end of the script, but I think the installed failed on the C compiler?
04:40<Wolf01>because so a train can crash into itself also in straight line
04:40<Wolf01>i pasted a link yesterday on this problem
04:41<Wolf01>Nickman, i'm the last person who can help you
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04:45<Rubidium>stillunknown: because in that case the wagons crash into the train too
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04:52<Wolf01>morning kaan
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04:54<Nickman>morning ;)
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04:56<OwenS>How do I send a string via DoCommand?
04:57<TheJosh>a real string, or a StringID ??
04:57<Rubidium>how long is the string?
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04:57<OwenS>A real string.I don't know how long - It's entered code. What max do you suggest?
04:58<TheJosh>whats it for?
04:58<OwenS>Programmable signals
04:58<TheJosh>why do they have a string anyway?
04:58<TheJosh>signal name?
04:58<OwenS>For the code?
04:58<TheJosh>ah ok
04:58<TheJosh>what language is the code in?
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04:59<TheJosh>and it shows just a text entry box?
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04:59<OwenS>TheJosh: Yep
04:59<Rubidium>80 characters (including '\0', so basically 79)
04:59<TheJosh>wouldnt some form of GUI be better?
04:59<Wolf01>the code won't fit in the textbox
04:59<OwenS>Most shouldn't be that complex
05:00<OwenS>If it is, well...
05:00<TheJosh>like a set of lines that and dropdowns, etc
05:00<OwenS>Noo, take too long
05:00<TheJosh>command dropdown with if, etc etc.
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05:00<OwenS>Take too long for someone to program a signal with
05:00<TheJosh>then youn can send numbers (CommandID)
05:00<TheJosh>depends how advanced they want. and if its that complex, 80 chars wont do
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05:01<OwenS>Well I can improve the entry method later
05:01<TheJosh>a little like the dynamic groups they want to have, with a list of conditions
05:02<TheJosh>also, then you dont need to put a squirrel parser into the game
05:02<OwenS>TheJosh: It's already in:P
05:02<OwenS>NoAI uses it
05:02<TheJosh>ah ok
05:02<TheJosh>i think you will want more than 80 chars. and I have no idea how to send through a DoCommandP
05:03<OwenS>Station GUI sets a _cmd_text before the DoCommandP... is that it?
05:03<Rubidium>and that may only be 80 characters long (including '\0')
05:04<TheJosh>that will suck a bit though, if you need to write a small program
05:04<OwenS>It doesn't have enough features ATM for it to be a problem, when it does, then i'll modify the send method
05:05<TheJosh>the DoCommandP system?
05:05<OwenS>No, i'll send it a different way... Maybe split it up into hunks or something
05:06<Rubidium>you can most likely condense the code dramatically by not sending the actual sourcecode
05:06<OwenS>But what do I send instead?
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05:06<Wolf01>OwenS, just send action codes
05:06<@Bjarni> <stillunknown> Bjarni: Why can't trains just crash into themselves :-( <--- because the game logics can't prevent this from happening. It would be bad to make random train crashes
05:06<TheJosh>ok i have a problem. how can I draw something at an arbirary position on the main viewport?
05:06<OwenS>Wolf01: Then I need to implement a custom Squirrel parser...
05:07<Rubidium>OwenS: how powerfull do you want the programmable signals to be?
05:07<Rubidium>as in: how much variables can they check
05:07<OwenS>Rubidium: I eventually want them to be able to query the state of any signal on the map
05:07<Wolf01>TheJosh, DrawSprite()
05:07<@Bjarni>as powerful as possible, I presume :)
05:08<TheJosh>Wolf01: i want to draw some lines
05:08<TheJosh>loading indicators (floating above the train while it loads)
05:08<boekabart>GfxDrawLine ?
05:08<Wolf01>you might need a grf and thd
05:08<Wolf01>ah, ok
05:08<TheJosh>trying, but it doesnt shopw up. ive got it in ViewportDoDraw (viewport.cpp)
05:09<TheJosh>just under the line where it draws all the strings
05:09<TheJosh>i tried draing a string but it doesnt show up
05:10<Wolf01>maybe because you need a WE_PAINT
05:10<Wolf01>it will be overwritten if draw before the viewport
05:11<TheJosh>its in the ViewportDoDraw. isnt that where the viewport _is_ drawn?
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05:11<stillunknown>Bjarni: I think i'm at the point were everything except rideing circles inside itself and turning around in a crossing with itself works
05:12[~]Bjarni wonders about making trains able to crash into themselves
05:12<@Bjarni>it will only happen on very poor designs
05:12<@Bjarni>so it would be kind of darwinism ;)
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05:15<TheJosh>Wolf01: its sortof working. the text appears, but disappears sometimes when you scroll
05:15<stillunknown>Bjarni: and i still need to improve the train detection algoritm, but that won't be the issue
05:15<stillunknown>for > 3 trains
05:15<Wolf01>i have the same problem with the OpenTTD writing on the intro gui, i had to put a background under it
05:16<Wolf01>but is really ugly... with rectangular shapes you can hide the whole background under the shape
05:16<TheJosh>is the background a picture?
05:16<Wolf01>no, is a window
05:16<TheJosh>is that in the scrolling background patch?
05:16<Wolf01>or better, a panel
05:17<TheJosh>what I want to do is have a small indicator above each train (when it is loading or unloading) showing how full it is
05:17<TheJosh>a small progress indicator
05:17<boekabart>TheJosh: Then draw it in the train drawing code
05:18<TheJosh>where is that?
05:18<boekabart>cmd_train.cpp i guess
05:18<TheJosh>this is new to me (i ususally work with towns)
05:18<TheJosh>looked there, thats the code for in the train edit window
05:18<boekabart>TheJosh: but I don't think you can actually call drawline there, it's way too early in the drawing process. That's where the sprites are just 'queued' to be drawn
05:19<boekabart>So you'll need grfs, probably
05:20<TheJosh>a grf for all 100 different percents that are in existance?
05:20<boekabart>actually you could see if you can find out (i don't know) how the train income 'popup' text is done, and do it in a similar way
05:21<boekabart>TheJosh: You're going to count pixels?
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05:21<boekabart>I guess 4-8 states of loading should do the trick right?
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05:21<TheJosh>actually the bar was probably going to be 50 px wide, so 1px / 2%
05:21<TheJosh>boekabart: perhaps
05:22<TheJosh>ill look at the popup text, that is a good idea
05:22<Rubidium>what about unloading and loading at the same time?
05:22<OwenS>What CharSetFilter would I use for all characters (Symbols, Letters, Numbers)?
05:24<TheJosh>i was just going to show a bar if the train state is loading
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05:25<Rubidium>TheJosh: but it is actually loading when still unloading other wagons
05:26<Rubidium>(with gradual loading)
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05:29<OwenS>TheJosh: In each carriage, set a flag to 0 when it arrives at a station. Then, set it to 1 when it starts loading, and only count it then?
05:30<TheJosh>it can be a 'how full' indicator, not 'how complete'
05:30<Wolf01>it should be "how full"
05:30<TheJosh>so it doesnt matter if its loading or unloading or both
05:30<TheJosh>but at this point i have no idea how to get it on there
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05:31<@peter1138>look at the ViewportAdd... functions
05:32<OwenS>And I have no idea why this assertion is failing :-(
05:32<OwenS>openttd: /home/oshepherd/Projects/openttd/prog/src/misc_gui.cpp:1162: void ShowQueryString(StringID, StringID, uint, uint, Window*, CharSetFilter): Assertion `realmaxlen < (sizeof(_edit_str_buf)/sizeof(_edit_str_buf[0]))' failed.
05:33<OwenS>The calling code is ShowQueryString(STR_SIGPROG_CODE, STR_SIGPROG_TITLE, 79, 180, railtb, CS_ALPHANUMERAL);
05:33<TheJosh>is an object your putting on a window outside the window?
05:33<skidd13>Another update for my order-gui-patch ... Now with textbtn's only... (Hope you're satisfied peter1138 & Rubidium) ;)
05:33<TheJosh>i once got assertions simmilar to that (i think) because i made the window smaller, but the sticky button was outside it
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05:34<@peter1138>OwenS: it means your length is longer than the edit text buffer
05:34<@peter1138>which is 64 chars iirc
05:34<OwenS>I was told it was 80...
05:34<OwenS>Oh no, thats DoCommand's max
05:34<@peter1138>no you weren't :)
05:34<TheJosh>meh im off cya round
05:34<TheJosh>thanks for the help
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05:36<Wolf01>the text boxex also take count of the width in pixels of the string, i had troubles inserting capital letters, but lower case ones were accepted
05:37[~]OwenS bumps up the buffer size
05:38<OwenS>O_o it only goes up to 36 characters
05:39<OwenS>... Which is 180 pixels, aah
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05:43<OwenS>CmdProgramSignal isn't getting called...
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05:55<Wolf01>uh somebody (me) forgot the transparency of the trees on the city roads
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05:57<Wolf01>what's better: tree ring transparency with roads infrastructure or houses?
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06:20<Wolf01>peter1138, i have 4 patches related to transparency gui to commit, can you give a look at them?
06:21<Wolf01>*please* ;)
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06:30<Wolf01> <-
06:32<boekabart>Wolf01: good work!
06:38<OwenS>I'm sending a command via DoCommandP, but it's not coming out the other end
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06:44<Wolf01>i have also an optimisation for the AddSortableSpriteToDraw function which require less lines for transparency and handle correctly the palette by itself, but i think that somebody don't want it
06:44<OwenS>Anyone got an idea?
06:45<Wolf01>OwenS, is multiplayer safe?
06:45<OwenS>DoCommandP is how you send a multiplayer safe command
06:45<Wolf01>but what you send is valid?
06:46<OwenS>Hmm... *thought*
06:49<Nickman>what did you send maybe?
06:49<OwenS>I forgot to save the tile clicked
06:49<OwenS>How do I get a Track from a given tile?
06:50<OwenS>Aah hang on, doesn't matter
06:50<Eddi|zuHause2>map accessors should be in rail_map.h
06:52<OwenS>I just need to find out if a prorgammable signal is on a tile
06:53<Nickman>if you have lot's op programmable signals, wont it slow down the game alot?
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06:53<OwenS>Nickman: Theoretically
06:53<OwenS>I don't envision there being too many
06:54<Nickman>how do you access the other signals that your programmable one depends one?
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06:54<OwenS>Nickman: I'm gonna make it so you can do GetSignalState(0xTILENUMBER) or something
06:56<Nickman>hi Brianetta :)
06:56<Nickman>Maybe you should be able to give the signals names of numbers?
06:57<Nickman>but on the other had, that could be the tile number :D
06:57<Eddi|zuHause2>OwenS: i'd suggest also a system of relative position, chances are that signals only depend on other signals near them
06:57<Nickman>most probably
06:57<Eddi|zuHause2>also, that might make things easier to copy-paste ;)
06:57<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause2: Yeah, i'm probably gonna make it so you can do GetDependency(n), where n is the order of the signal scanned
06:57<Wolf01>OwenS, rail_map.h lines 22-51
06:58<Nickman>or make a system where you can clickon a certain tile to get the tile number at once :)
06:58<OwenS>Nickman: About tile or something similar already exists
06:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you can get the tile number with the query tool, Nickman
06:58<Nickman>ah :)
06:58<Nickman>But i mean the tile number automatticly gets inserted into your current code? :)
06:59<OwenS>Thats hard
07:00<Nickman>it isn't first priority neither :)
07:00<OwenS>No, first priority is making it so it can't crash the game
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07:07<Nickman>so, how far do you think your progress is at the moment? :) I remember your first NAND signals :D
07:08<Wolf01>i rememer the flip flop i made with that patch
07:08<OwenS>The scripting engine is in. I'm currently getting it to set the script in the table
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07:09<Nickman>nice :)
07:10<Nickman>I wish I could compile OTTD again on my PC... but it always keeps on fighting :p
07:11<OwenS>OK, I just programmed a NAND signal in game =D
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07:16<Eddi|zuHause2>just that NAND signals are totally useless :p
07:16<Wolf01>nope, they are usefull for priority
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07:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you should do priority with other ways
07:17<Nickman>you can do almost anything with it, but it an't easy :D
07:17<Nickman>so does that mean it's working OwenS ? :)
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07:17<OwenS>Nickman: Pretty much. More client side erorr checking now
07:17<Nickman>ofcourse ;)
07:18<Wolf01>yes you should build a piece of track and some signals placed in a weird way
07:18<Nickman>haha :D
07:18<Nickman>with OwenS new patch priority should finally look normal :D
07:18<Nickman>I hope ;)
07:19<OwenS>Nickman: Dunno about that!
07:19<Nickman>why not?
07:19<Wolf01>it only takes less space
07:19<OwenS>I have a way it could be made smaller, but it needs some extra functions
07:19<Wolf01>OwenS, do you remember the signal cascading?
07:19<Eddi|zuHause2>ideally, you should be able to make priority signals without any additional tracks
07:20<OwenS>Wolf01: Yes. I'm gonna implement the counter on a per signal basis this time I think
07:20<OwenS>If I can
07:21<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause2: With the idea I have, yes
07:21<Wolf01>i think the best solution is to make one change per tick, so not all the signals are triggered in the same tick
07:21<Wolf01>causing some signals be in a quantum state
07:21<OwenS>Wolf01: OpenTTD signals are asynchronous
07:21<OwenS>That would be a massive rewrite
07:22<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: if the dependencies are cyclic, the signal code should error out (maybe have a red blinking state or something :p=
07:23<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause2: If it's like in the old patch, then it will pop up an error box
07:23<OwenS>And set them to red
07:23<Eddi|zuHause2>that's an option
07:24<Wolf01>no, that is not an option, i won't be able to build flip flops :P
07:25<Nickman>to bad :)
07:25<OwenS>Oscillators you mean? :P
07:25<OwenS>If you need an infinite loop you will want a relay :p
07:25<Wolf01>no, the flip flop, the exit is linked with the entrance in a loop which remembers an 8
07:26<OwenS>Wolf01: Do the signals always change though?
07:27<Wolf01>no, they change only if they get an input
07:27<OwenS>So theyre a loop, but a constant loop
07:27<Wolf01>a sort of
07:27<OwenS>if(!(GetSignalType(tile, TRACK_LOWER) == SIGTYPE_PROG) ||
07:27<OwenS> (GetSignalType(tile, TRACK_RIGHT) == SIGTYPE_PROG))
07:27<OwenS>Can anyone see the issue?
07:28<OwenS>I want to detect if a tile contains a programmable signal. It's always true =S
07:28<Eddi|zuHause2>what's the "!" doing there?
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07:29<Wolf01>but that is (!(A)||B)
07:29<Eddi|zuHause2>but it says !(A) || (B)
07:29<OwenS>Gotcha! Thanks
07:30<Eddi|zuHause2>and unary operators have the highest priority
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07:32<OwenS>OK, where can I hook to find out that a signal has been destroyed?
07:33<Rubidium>OwenS: what do you think yourself? It really looks like you don't look for it, but just start asking questions so other people are going to search for you.
07:34<Wolf01>Nickman, i just saw you run windows vista... good luck :)
07:34<Nickman>hehe :D
07:35<Nickman>to compile it you mean?
07:35<Nickman>OTTD doesn't like vista? :D
07:35<Wolf01>you need to set permissions on folders
07:35<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not like the functions are named "magic function 5B to modify feature FA" (->nfo :p)
07:36<Wolf01>no, vista don't like other softwares
07:36<Nickman>hehe :D indeed :)
07:36<Eddi|zuHause2>you can search for functions that have "signal" in the name
07:36<Nickman>what do you mean with the permissions?
07:36<Eddi|zuHause2>there aren't that many
07:37<Wolf01>programs can write only on "my folder" etc in documents and settings
07:37<Nickman>what if I run it as administrator
07:37<Wolf01>you can try
07:37<Nickman>I'll do that ;)
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07:41<OwenS>Rubidium: I dunno.. I guess i'm just too used to projects with every function documented in the Doxygen (Then again, theyre libraries...)
07:42<Rubidium>OwenS: maybe every *external* function documented
07:42<Nickman>when you use something like Visual studio you can request all those possible functions :)
07:42<OwenS>Generally, I don't work within the confines of the other projects much, so...
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07:43<Nickman>Wolf01: still getting the same errors... :(
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07:44<Wolf01>i don't know well vista, i tried it a little and then formatted and installed xp pro
07:44<OwenS>SetHasSignals... Will that be called in every case that a signal is removed?
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07:45<Wolf01>seem so
07:45<Nickman>I don't know... I like vista, but still some things bother me...
07:46<Nickman>but then again, in XP they also did :D
07:46<Nickman>Maybe I'll go back to Windows 98 :p
07:46<hylje>or just go ubunt
07:46<Rubidium>OwenS: you should not add code to the map accessors
07:46<Nickman>only problem with linux is that my webcam isn't supported... :(
07:46<hylje>oh noes!
07:46<Nickman>but it's the only thing :D
07:47<Nickman>and it sucks
07:47<Nickman>my girlfriend likes to webcam so...
07:47<hylje>go get a generic webcam and you're all set
07:48[~]OwenS hooks CmdRemoveSingleSignal
07:48<Wolf01>you might check this: HasSignalOnTrack(tile, track)
07:49<Nickman>what you mean with a generic one?
07:49<Wolf01>a logitech one ;)
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07:49<OwenS>Nickman: Ones which are rebranded by tonnes of companies :P
07:50<Nickman>I have one from Logitech... I would think they would be the ones with the most support :D
07:50<Zuu>Wolf01: Logitech Quick cam 5000 does not work ...
07:50<Nickman>but I guess I was wrong :)
07:50<Nickman>I have the 4000 one
07:51<Zuu>Well, the kernel module detects it after lot of work but the v4l-part don't work.
07:51<Wolf01>i have the lego webcam which is logitech compatible and works very well and almost driver-less ;)
07:51<Nickman>I did get it to work under ubuntu and aMSN
07:51<Nickman>but it only works once and then it stops...
07:51<OwenS>Wolf01: Thats not the one from the old mindstorms set is it?
07:51<Nickman>and that one time is during setup :D
07:51<Wolf01>yes is that
07:51<Nickman>that one was cool!
07:51<OwenS>The quality on that always sucked for me...
07:52<Nickman>yeah, quality wasn't that good, but it looks cool ;)
07:52<Nickman>I have a great webcam, but it has little to no support under linux which sucks!
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07:52<Wolf01>it was cool because it can follow my head automagically XD
07:53<OwenS>Wolf01: Which model RCX did you have? =P
07:53<Wolf01>1.5 and 2
07:53<OwenS>1.0 =P
07:53<Wolf01>1.0 was cool, it had the external power connector
07:53<OwenS>Actually, it sits above my head
07:53<OwenS>RCX 1.0? =S
07:54<Wolf01>it doesn't?
07:54<OwenS>It does, I forgot =P
07:54<OwenS>Serial number 036022 =P
07:55[~]Zuu goes out to the park to play beach volley ball :)
07:56<OwenS>Now, my question is, whats the correct way to add an extra hunk of data to the save file?
07:57<+glx>first step is savegame bump
07:57<OwenS>So theres no support for adding extra hunks in a given version? =(
07:58<Nickman>Maybe the savegame format should be changed to some XML format, that way you wont have to change the version anymore?
07:58<OwenS>XML? Eww!
07:58<Nickman>you can just check if everything is tehre
07:58<OwenS>I'm thinking of making it more IFF like
07:58<OwenS>Interchange File Format
07:58<+glx>and have very huge savegames
07:59<OwenS> <- Very old
08:00<OwenS>Store a list of chunks and their lengths, then the data in the chunks themselves. If the version doesn't understand a given chunk, bail out
08:02<Rubidium>OwenS: IFF looks like our savegame format
08:03<OwenS>It does? =O
08:03<OwenS>Hmm, a comment in saveload.cpp mentions RIFF... Riff is IFF, just with reversed byte orders
08:03<Rubidium>chuncks which then contain arbitrary data
08:06<Nickman>so, when will someone start a threaded OTTD? :D:D
08:06<Nickman>Or a multi core based version
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08:07<Rubidium>Nickman: when somebody can do all the game logic in the same order (on all clients/servers) and parallel
08:08<Nickman>It would actually mean a whole rewrite I guess :)
08:08<OwenS>Rubidium: I'm guessing I create a ChunkHandler and register it somewhere
08:08<Rubidium>Nickman: that's not a whole rewrite anymore. It's just starting from scratch.
08:09<Nickman>hehe indeed :D
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08:31<TheJosh>when games are saved, are the various structs etc just serialised? is there a way to add a parameter without killing the savegame? i probably dont need the parameter saved anyway
08:33<@peter1138>if you just add it to a struct then it won't matter
08:33<TheJosh>basically i am modifying AddTextEffect, so i can create another text effect for my train load info, but i am passing back an int handle so i can update the text effect later. i need to save this int handle in the train struct, but i dont want to kill the savegame.
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08:42<izhirahider>Can anyone show me a screenshot of a freight tram in OpenTTD?
08:42<izhirahider>How do they differ from a regular tram
08:43<@peter1138>presumably in graphics
08:43<@peter1138>and they carry freight instead of passengers
08:43<TheJosh>whats an articulated vehicle?
08:43<@peter1138>a vehicle that comes in multiple parts
08:43<Jerub>TheJosh: like a bus with 6 axels and an acordian section
08:43<Jerub>(in australia we call them banana busses)
08:44<TheJosh>i call them bendy busses (you from australia Jerub?)
08:44<TheJosh>that would look cool when it goes around a corner
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08:44<TheJosh>are they NewGRF only?
08:45<Joriz_laptop>Are there trams in OpenTTD? I thought they were only in locomotion
08:45<Nickman>they are in OpenTTD since a couple of days :)
08:45<Nickman>in the nightlies
08:45<Joriz_laptop>oh k
08:45<Joriz_laptop>are there screens in the forum
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08:46<izhirahider>Not much
08:47<izhirahider>But I can only spot regular trams (for passangers) not cargo (or freight)
08:47<izhirahider>I assume freight trams == cargo-other-than-passangers trams?
08:48<TheJosh>my patch works (well everything i have done so far -> is still locked at 25%, theres no actual calculations going on)
08:49<Nickman>so you get the graph to show?
08:50<TheJosh>nah, i am going with a text percentage instead
08:51<TheJosh>there is stacks of text drawing stuff in the code, but hardly any line stuff. i havent coded any drawing at all, just hooked text effects (the money values that rise when you make money)
08:52<Joriz_laptop>i really got a traffic jam with my vehicles. one way lanes should be added
08:52<TheJosh>they have been
08:52<TheJosh>ctrl-click a road
08:52<Joriz_laptop>i will try
08:53<Joriz_laptop>it doesnt work in the newest stable
08:54<OwenS>Joriz_laptop: New features don't get added to the stables
08:54<OwenS>Theyre just bugfixes
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08:54<OwenS>You need to use a nightly
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08:56<Nickman>TheJosh: To bad, a bar would have looked cool :D. Not that a text representation isn't ;)
08:56<TheJosh>Joriz_laptop: dont cry, nightlies are cool
08:57<TheJosh>Nickman: we can always add a bar later. no point spending adges making it cool, if the idea ends up sucking anyway
08:58<Nickman>You are right there :D
09:01<stillunknown>i wonder who actually uses the stable releases.
09:01<Nickman>indeed :D
09:03<Joriz_laptop>i do
09:03<Joriz_laptop>and much other people who play openttd online
09:03<Nickman>Nightliy's have alot more features
09:03<Nickman>that's true
09:03<Nickman>it IS a stable release afterall :)
09:03<Nickman>I used to have both running :D
09:05<Rubidium>stillunknown: just look at and you'll see most of the servers are non-nightlies
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09:13<TheJosh>i need to use a variable of type Vehicle inside the Vehicle class, but the compiler is complaining because its abstract. is there a way around this?
09:16<OwenS>OK, Squirrel VM cacheing is in =)
09:16<OwenS>Now all thats left is saving
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09:19<OwenS>If only there were some documentation on it...
09:22<TheJosh>my filling thing works...sortof
09:22<Rubidium>OwenS: that's the legacy of reverse engineered code
09:22<TheJosh>it only ever shows 0% or 100% (the update function is not getting called often enough)
09:22<TheJosh>but im going to bed now
09:22<TheJosh>cya all round
09:22<OwenS>Rubidium: Mmm, ndisasm
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09:24<OwenS>Hmm, I'm guessing I add my chunk handler arround saveload.cpp:1244, add it to the list arround 1262, and then write out the data
09:27<OwenS>The question is, whats a good chunk handler example?
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10:19<OwenS>Could you have written a more complex save system?!
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10:20<OwenS>Let me rephrase that: Couldn't you have written a less complex one
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10:23<Rubidium>it isn't that complex
10:23<OwenS>Without a manual it's nearly incomprehensible
10:23<TrueBrain>the correct reply would have been: Probably
10:24<_Mist_>or: "You're welcome to submit a better one yourself."
10:31<Nickman>just rewrite it owen? :)
10:31<OwenS>That would take forever...
10:31<Nickman>Is it that complex? :)
10:31<Kjetil>If it works... don't touch it
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10:32<Nickman>Improvements arn't that bad in my opinion :)
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11:07<stillunknown>kaan: i posted a new version of the caching patch, which *should* work on loops
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11:17<stillunknown>Anybody in the mood for some testing?
11:18<hylje>what is it
11:18<stillunknown>A train caching system to reduce collision detection load.
11:23<stillunknown>hylie: It's ok if you don't want to test ;-)
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11:26<stillunknown>Just unleash it on the largest/most complex savegame you have lying around.
11:26<hylje>i have a somewhat complex savegame
11:27<hylje>ill leave it running
11:34<hylje>appears to work this far, just fine
11:35<stillunknown>Only a few people try to break the system.
11:37<stillunknown>hylje: If you have time and are in the mood for breaking, try making all sort of weird constructions.
11:38<stillunknown>I tried several very strange situations, but you never know.
11:39<stillunknown>But that would require uncommenting some fprintf and see if everything stays correct.
11:39<stillunknown>But a long run would be good (i'm doing the same).
11:40<hylje>train that crosses itself four times in the same tile
11:40<hylje>seems to work
11:41<stillunknown>The fun bit would be to watch the occupancy level of the first engine.
11:41<stillunknown>In non loop conditions it should be 0.
11:42<stillunknown>In the patch (and code) there is commented fprintf, that displays the occupancy level of the tile in front of the first engine.
11:42<stillunknown>But i will check multiple crossing in one tile as well (at some point).
11:44<stillunknown>hylje: Don't worry if you find my words confusing.
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12:01<Rubidium>stillunknown: your algorithm fails in depots
12:01<hylje>heh several trains on a tile
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12:04<UndernotBuilder>luukland isn't here :(
12:05<UndernotBuilder>I want to join the tournament
12:05<Rubidium>stillunknown: your algorithm uses bits that aren't "free" in level crossings
12:07<stillunknown>Rubidium: I checked the landscape grid
12:08<stillunknown>As far as i can tell, they are free.
12:09<Rubidium>hmm, you're right... I was looking at the wrong row
12:09<Rubidium>though the landscape grid isn't always right
12:10<stillunknown>I will investigate the issues with depots, after i check another potential problem.
12:11<stillunknown>Rubidium: Do you know specifically what goes wrong in depots?
12:12<Rubidium>it's just that when you start two trains simultaniously, in trunk they crash instantly, with your patch once they reach the tile in front of the depot
12:12<Rubidium>(use the skip red signal button to start two trains)
12:15<Rubidium>your patch is going to fail horribly under MSVC with compile errors (using non-bools as bools)
12:16<Rubidium>char is not per definition signed
12:17<stillunknown>Were am i using non-bools as bools?
12:17<Rubidium>lots of places
12:17<Rubidium>for example if (u->next)
12:18<stillunknown>Why will that fail?
12:18<Rubidium>just ask somebody to compile your patch under MSVC
12:18<Rubidium>I know it will happen, don't know exactly why
12:19<hylje>stupid nonstandard compiler
12:19<Rubidium>hylje: MSVC is actually right about that
12:20<hylje>did i say any names? :-)
12:20<Rubidium>the C++ does not specify that NULL == false or !NULL == true
12:20<hylje>(yeah, context)
12:20<Rubidium>*C++ specification
12:21<hylje>is null neither?
12:22<Rubidium>well, stillunknown's code assumes NULL evaluates to false (or rather that non-NULL evaluates to true)
12:23<stillunknown>Thanks for the warning, eventually i'll clean those up.
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12:24<Rubidium>the comment of CountNumVehicles is just wrong; it's not returning the number of vehicles on the tile
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12:25<Unaimed>Is there a builtin shuffle function in openttd?
12:25<stillunknown>Rubidium: It should return the number of unique "whole" vehicles.
12:25<Unaimed>one dimensional array
12:25<Unaimed>of ints
12:26<Rubidium>maybe in the music playing code
12:26<Rubidium>stillunknown: but for vehicle on the given tile, it includes vehicles from neighbouring tiles too
12:27<Rubidium>ooh, that CountVehicles function is *ugly*
12:28<stillunknown>I could improve it, but do you have structurally better way?
12:29<Rubidium>well... the hash area is but ugly and way too large
12:30<stillunknown>I could verify if the vehicle is on the tile.
12:31<Rubidium>and you could use a container type that guarantees uniqueness instead of a vector and guaranteeing the uniqueness yourself
12:31<Rubidium>stillunknown: my problem with the "hash area to scan" is the fact that it's way too large
12:32<stillunknown>A FOR_ALL_VEHICLES is better?
12:33<Rubidium>hmm, that function also counts vehicles in tunnels/on bridges (and aircraft I think)
12:33<Rubidium>stillunknown: no
12:33<Rubidium>for all is even worse
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12:41<stillunknown>Rubidium: fortunately such scans are rare
12:41<stillunknown>does anyone know a prettier way for this?
12:42<stillunknown>if (u->next != NULL && u->next->next != NULL && u->next->next->next != NULL) {
12:42<Rubidium>why do you need to look that far to the back of the train?
12:42<kaan>short answer: no
12:42<Noldo>stillunknown: looks pretty enough
12:43<stillunknown>In certain cases i look through the entire train, this saves an entire loop to determine train length, since i only want to skip a few segments.
12:44<Noldo>saves how?
12:44<Rubidium>stillunknown: but why the initial 3?
12:45<stillunknown>They are behind the first engine, and could be on the same tile, yet cannot form a loop by themselves
12:45<Eddi|zuHause2>you don't even know the length of the train
12:46<Eddi|zuHause2>you could have e.g. 6 short wagons on the same tiles with newgrfs
12:46<stillunknown>Wagons can be that short?
12:46<Eddi|zuHause2>or 3 ultra long wagons
12:46<Progman>in ukset they are
12:47<Eddi|zuHause2>just assume wagons can be any length :)
12:47<kaan>this is turning in to quite a headache ;)
12:47<stillunknown>I can redesign this, just need to give it some thought.
12:48<stillunknown>kaan: I can see why noone tried before.
12:48<Wolf01>mmmh no commits today
12:49<kaan>simple truth might be that noone thought of it before
12:49<Rubidium>Wolf01: lies...
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>!openttd commit
12:50<_42_>Commit by rubidium :: r10029 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2007-06-02 21:07:03 UTC)
12:50<_42_>-Fix (r9923): trams should not/cannot turn on roadworks.
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>there were commits in the last 24h :)
12:51<TrueBrain>at least 1 reason to make a new nightly :)
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it's only 18:00 UTC
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12:56<TrueBrain>nightly runs at 20:00 CEST, but okay
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12:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i know, that is in 3 minutes
12:58<@peter1138>or 2
12:58<TrueBrain>sorry peter1138, it really is 2
12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>4! = 24
12:58<@peter1138>depending on which clock i look at :D
12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>peter1138: but it's not depending on your clock :)
12:58<tokai|noir>992 years until 3000 ;)
12:59<Eddi|zuHause2>tokai|noir: you plan on going to that party, too? :p
12:59<tokai|noir>depends on progress in science, but yes :)
13:00<stillunknown>Rubidium: i've put up another patch
13:01<tokai|noir>my latest computer toy: wondering how well OpenTTD will work on it (speed wise).
13:02<Eddi|zuHause2>what exactly is that?
13:02<tokai|noir>400mhz powerpc SoC evaluation thingy.
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13:05<Wolf01>i want to purchase a ipaq rw6815, will ottd run on it?
13:06<stillunknown>Bjarni: hello
13:06<Sacro|Laptop>Bjarni: helllo
13:06<tokai|noir>Wolf01: if it doesn't work you always can make it work :)
13:06<Wolf01>Bjarni: hellllo
13:07<@Bjarni>hi channel
13:07<Wolf01>me? i can only code simple things
13:08<stillunknown>Everyone has their flaws, i prefer to stay far away from (the) gui code.
13:08<@Bjarni>I used to say something like that as well
13:08<Sacro|Laptop>now Bjarni delves in and breaks things
13:08<@Bjarni>then I needed a GUI for autoreplace and there was nobody to make it, so I had to learn it the hard way
13:10<Kjetil>tokai|noir: If you can get some HW-acceleration on the graphics card it should work
13:11<stillunknown>Is anything in openttd gpu accelerated at all?
13:11<@Bjarni>stillunknown: don't end lines with */ when next line starts with /*
13:11<@Bjarni>just start the next line with *
13:12<@Bjarni>minor issue, but still... it's also fairly easy to correct ;)
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13:12<tokai|noir>Kjetil: will know more next weekend... need to build some proper temp. case first. ;)
13:13<Kjetil>stillunknown: accelerating SDL would help would help a lot me thinks
13:13<Sacro|Laptop>/* no comment */
13:14<stillunknown>Sacro|Laptop: what do you know?
13:14<Sacro|Laptop>stillunknown: i know lots of things
13:15<stillunknown>very funny, i mean about accelerating SDL
13:16<Sacro|Laptop>i know a fair bit
13:16<Sacro|Laptop>i'm learning SDL current
13:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i tried to run ottd unaccelerated once, it was very... well... you know :)
13:17<Eddi|zuHause2>2D acceleration helps a lot
13:17<stillunknown>Bjarni: still happy with the caching idea?
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13:32<@Bjarni>stillunknown: sorry... I just had something else to look at. I haven't read the new diff yet
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13:33<stillunknown>Bjarni: np
13:35<Sacro|Laptop>Bjarni: pron?
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13:47<@Bjarni>Sacro|Laptop: are you trying to say something dirty to me???
13:47<Sacro|Laptop>Bjarni: only if you'd like me to
13:47<@Bjarni>I DON'T
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13:49<@peter1138>here's something dirty
13:49<@peter1138>3rd rail
13:50<hylje>is it like third leg?
13:50<@Bjarni>err, if it's dirty, then the connection is poor
13:50<@Bjarni>we need to clean it
13:50[~]Bjarni hands a bucket of water and a brush to Sacro|Laptop
13:50[~]Sacro|Laptop sets to work polishing the 3rd rail
13:51<@Bjarni>so now Sacro|Laptop is polishing the long hard beam
13:51<Sacro|Laptop>indeed he is
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13:54<@Bjarni>stillunknown: the check to see if the tiles are inside the map... shouldn't that be asserts?
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13:54<stillunknown>That's just something i added due to a vague problem a long time, shouldn't even be needed now.
13:57<stillunknown>Bjarni: consider it gone
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14:10<kaan>oh my, you seem to be busy, ill drop by later
14:11<@Bjarni>stillunknown: I wonder if we could simplify the crossing code
14:12<stillunknown>Bjarni: the "moving status" trough the train seems to be needed
14:13<stillunknown>loops are a bitch to deal with
14:14<stillunknown>Bjarni: If you have specific ideas
14:14[~]Kjetil doesn't quite see the problem with rail loops
14:15<@Bjarni>stillunknown: PM
14:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10030 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#823]: one could build on (some) slopes when building on slopes was disabled.
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14:35<Sacro|Laptop>oh noes
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14:40<Sacro|Laptop>i'll leave you to ponder that one
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15:07<Thomas[NL]>I know it cant be used in game but it looks funny :P :
15:08<hylje>why not
15:09<Thomas[NL]>same sprites are used on sloped hills and if vehicles are taking over on de right road they drive over the lampposts
15:10<hylje>oh no
15:11<Thomas[NL]>like this
15:11<Wolf01>that's called road accessories, i think it is not so difficult to extend
15:11<TrueBrain> <- aint it pretty?
15:11<TrueBrain>the newest addition :)
15:12<Sacro|Laptop>ye gad
15:12<hylje>is dat sum 4bit color
15:12<Sacro|Laptop>TrueBrain: its very... arty
15:13<hylje>TrueBrain: you are fucking with the renderer for fun? :>
15:18<Phazorx>hylje: coopers chan plz
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15:21<UndernotBuilder>!seen luukland
15:21<_42_>UndernotBuilder, Luukland ( was last seen quitting #openttd 11 hours 25 minutes ago (03.06. 08:55) stating "Quit: Ik wacht, en ik wacht, al sinds februari wacht ik. Ik vraag mijn zelf af: hoelang moet ik nog wachten, want er lijkt geen einde aan te komen..." after spending 1 hour there.
15:21<TrueBrain>@seen luukland
15:21<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: luukland was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 49 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Luukland> *nm
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15:32<UndernotBuilder>@seen UndernotBuilder
15:32<@DorpsGek>UndernotBuilder: UndernotBuilder was last seen in #openttd 11 minutes and 0 seconds ago: <UndernotBuilder> !seen luukland
15:34<Sacro|Laptop>@seen Sacro|Laptop
15:34<@DorpsGek>Sacro|Laptop: Sacro|Laptop was last seen in #openttd 21 minutes and 51 seconds ago: <Sacro|Laptop> TrueBrain: its very... arty
15:34<Sacro|Laptop>@seen Sacro|Laptop
15:34<@DorpsGek>Sacro|Laptop: Sacro|Laptop was last seen in #openttd 6 seconds ago: <Sacro|Laptop> @seen Sacro|Laptop
15:34<TrueBrain>@kick Sacro|Laptop You are annoying
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15:35<Sacro|Laptop>nyoro~n :(
15:53<@Bjarni>you dirty bastard >_<
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15:54[~]Bjarni wonders if he should kick Sacro|Laptop
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16:07<Sacro|Laptop>how have they got 1.0?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>who prevents them calling it 1.0?
16:09<Sacro|Laptop>don't the devs here?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>why? if they fork it, they can call it whatever they want
16:11<Sacro|Laptop>does the channel registration run out next week?
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16:25<TrueBrain>more art! :)
16:25<Sacro|Laptop>ack MY EYES
16:29<Thomas[NL]>still no .deb package added to the download section of the site :(
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16:32<Rubidium>Thomas[NL]: that usually means that the person building those binary has other stuff with higher priorities than building the debian packages
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16:33<@Bjarni>luckily it's just a matter of typing "./configure && make" and then you can do without a .deb package
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17:56<Nickman>hi all
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21:55<Jerub>what really happens when two engines come together.
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 04 00:00:51 2007