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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-06

---Logopened Wed Jun 06 00:00:06 2007
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00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10047 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-06 07:59:17
00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 58 fixed by knovak (58)
00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 3 fixed by Hadez (3)
00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 28 fixed by ThomasA (28)
00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 23 fixed by habell (23)
00:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 3 fixed by lorenzodv (3)
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01:11<roboboy>is there a way of extending my news history to beyond a save/autosave?
01:12<@peter1138>nope
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01:34<roboboy>ok
01:34<roboboy>would it be possible to allow it somehow?
01:39<@peter1138>probably
01:40<Rubidium>though not very usefull
01:41<Rubidium>100 years of new of 8 players, who wants that?
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02:10<roboboy>yeah it wouldnt be that usefull with max players, but sometimes I miss an important industry message because of the number of them, and it cant be seen after the game saves.
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02:22<roboboy>one question, can I update a GRF in the middle of a game?
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03:09<Nickman>hi all
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04:07<@peter1138>roboboy: yes
04:07<@peter1138>also, news messages aren't lost when the game is saved
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04:53<roboboy>ok
04:54<roboboy>it seems like that though
04:54<roboboy>as I cant seem to go far back, maybe im just getting too many messages
04:54<boekabart>this is officially the slowest discussion i've ever witnessed
04:55<boekabart>10 messages during >4 hours
04:55<roboboy>I have been in and out either eating doing homework or watching tv
04:56<boekabart>i can imagine the reasons ;). and peter1138 is actually working it seems :)
04:56<roboboy>yeah
05:07<@peter1138>news is only held for 3 items
05:07<@peter1138>er
05:07<@peter1138>30
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05:28[~]boekabart is going to some party somewhere
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05:29<roboboy>ok
05:29<roboboy>can that limit be made larger or as an option
05:32<Biff>its just a constant
05:32<Biff>so yes
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05:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10048 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r6455): Don't use override engine type for articulated wagon parts.
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07:36|-|TheJosh [~josh@d58-105-39-13.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:36<TheJosh>hey all
07:36<Nickman>hi
07:37<TheJosh>ok i have a quick c++ question.
07:39<TheJosh>in higher level languages, there is such a thing as a 'dynamic array'. they grow and shrink all by themselves. I know that it is possible to do this in c++ by creating a heap object, and keeping a 'length' parameter, and if you want to grow beyond that length, yo reallocate bigger and copy over all the data. the question is, how do you do this practically (in the scope of OpenTTD that is)
07:39<Biff>realloc() is something you often use for dynamic arrays
07:40<TheJosh>how does that work?
07:40<TheJosh>so you dont use new?
07:40<Biff>it expands or shrinks an array
07:40<TheJosh>wipe the data in it?
07:40<Biff>well, this is how it can be done in c, i dont know if c++ has some better method to do it
07:41<Biff>realloc(myarr,size*2) for instance
07:41<Biff>and it keeps the values
07:41<Noldo>in c++ stdlib there are nice dynamic containers
07:42<Noldo>vector is propably the closest to dynamic array
07:42<TheJosh>realloc is just like malloc
07:42<TheJosh>its currently a fixed array of a struct
07:42<TheJosh>i want it to start at 50 elements, and grow in increments of 50
07:42<TheJosh>most games wont reach 50 anyway, but i need the facility to grow to about 500 if need be
07:43<colle>you could write some kind of a linked list if you don't want to use the stdlib
07:43<Biff>if you use realloc you can accomplish that
07:43<Biff>linked lists are very slow if you iterate through them
07:44<TheJosh>about that. what is the fastest thing to iterate? an array and a for loop?
07:44<Biff>pretty much
07:44<Biff>then the array will be cached
07:45<TheJosh>cool thanks. i do a lot of programming in other languages (PHP mainly, as a job) and dynamic + associative arrays are taken for granted
07:45<Biff>the thing to remember is that what makes it slow is when you have to fetch stuff from memory, and its not cached
07:45<Biff>as will often be the case with linked lists
07:45<hylje>php ew
07:46<TheJosh>hylje: php is good for web stuff
07:46<TheJosh>Biff: you mean cached on the cpu?
07:46<Biff>TheJosh: yup, its nice in higher level languages, but thats why they are much much slower then c/c++ for alot of things
07:46<Biff>TheJosh: correct
07:46|-|ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:46<Biff>every memory request goes through the cpu
07:46<Biff>eh, through the cache
07:46<Biff>sorry :-)
07:46<TheJosh>Biff: i know, but imagine making a web program in c++
07:47<Biff>yeah, that would be fun :-P
07:47<Biff>its not really all that hard actually
07:47<hylje>TheJosh: developing for php is a pain
07:47<TheJosh>and the cpu can do lookahead? sorry i studied assembly when 386 was the big thing and the cpu didnt do anything cool
07:47<Biff>but i wouldn recommend it
07:47<TheJosh>hylje: i dont mind PHP
07:48<TheJosh>Biff: eBay is in c
07:48<Biff>there you go
07:48<hylje>wasnt ebay java-based?
07:48<TheJosh>i dont know now...mabey it has changed.
07:48<hylje>it used to use ISAPI
07:48<TheJosh>PHP is real good for building a site quickly
07:49<Biff>it would be alot of code tho
07:49<TheJosh>and talking to databases easily and stuff like that
07:49<Touqen>From what I can tell ebay still uses ISAPI
07:49<TheJosh>probably
07:49<Touqen>Which can be written in a number of things
07:49<hylje>Touqen: backwards compability
07:49<Biff>php is ok
07:49<hylje>i for one developed a blog app mostly from scratch in about three hours
07:49<Biff>i hope python will be more used for web stuff tho
07:49<TheJosh>i want to learn the php gtk extention...destkop apps
07:49<Touqen>php gtk is a joke.
07:49<hylje>django+python
07:49<Biff>i prefer python
07:50<Touqen>Literally.
07:50<TheJosh>Touqen: i know
07:50<hylje>php gtk? seriously?
07:50<eekee>lol heard of it
07:50<TheJosh>there is an extention to do _anything_ in php
07:50<Biff>TheJosh: why do you want to learn something you cant name one good program that uses?
07:50<TheJosh>Biff: quest for knowledge
07:50<hylje>i'd rather use python for desktop apps
07:50<TheJosh>i like learning things. not in a class and stuff, but teaching myself
07:50<Biff>how about learning gtk in for example python
07:51<Biff>i agree
07:51<Biff>but learn something that is worth learning
07:51<hylje>hell, i use python for about everything
07:51<TheJosh>my next thing is gtk in c++ once i get alright at c++ (thanks to OpenTTD)
07:51<TheJosh>i havent learnt python yet...perhaps next.
07:52<TheJosh>i know a lot of languages
07:52<eekee>Python's very easy to learn, IMHO
07:52<eekee>Either that or it happens to be compatible with my particular brain damage :d
07:53<hylje>:>
07:54<eekee>^^;
07:56<TheJosh>i just forgot i learnt scheme the other day and havent added a userbox wo my wikipedia account! panic! (not really, i dont use wikipedia much now)
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07:58<TheJosh>im gonna have to learn python now (i have to break 20 languages)
07:59<TheJosh>i am going to shut up now... i am meant to be working
08:00<TheJosh>and i talk way way too much!
08:00<Thomas[NL]>hmm is the wiki down?
08:01<TheJosh>entire website looks down
08:01<Thomas[NL]>www. does work for me
08:01<TheJosh>nope main is good, wiki looks dead
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08:05<+glx>!seen MiHaMiX
08:05<_42_>glx, MiHaMiX (~miham@xenon.bibl.u-szeged.hu) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 38 minutes ago (06.06. 12:26) stating "Ping timeout: 480 seconds" after spending 1 week 1 day 5 hours 13 minutes there.
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08:05<+glx><Thomas[NL]> hmm is the wiki down? <-- doesn't surprise me :)
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08:06<Thomas[NL]>glx, because?
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08:06<+glx>MiHaMiX hosts wiki, and some other services
08:07<+glx>if his connection is dead, the hosted thing are too ;)
08:07<Thomas[NL]>ah ok :)
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08:07<Thomas[NL]>I wonder how the r10000 party is going :)
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08:08<hylje>:o
08:08<hylje>there is a party?
08:10<ln-_>yeah, today.
08:10<ln-_>i think.
08:20<eekee>anyone know a good pixiel art program for Linux? I'm using the Gimp, &, well, it's passable & I'm familiar with it, but it's... a bit clunky
08:22<TheJosh>bit big for pixel editing?
08:24<TheJosh>what controlls a train while it is in a station? Vehicle::HandleLoading (veichle.cpp) seems to be only called when the train enters, and again when it leaves, and TrainController (train_cmd.cpp) does not appear to be called at all
08:30<eekee>TheJosh: I can't find the pallete dialog. I'm using the color picker instead but it pops up it's little information window over my work every time I use it.
08:30<eekee>other than that it's quite adequate
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08:34<TheJosh>main window > file > dialogs > palettes
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08:35<TheJosh>pick your palette, and you get colours you can select easy
08:35<eekee>ah, wonderfl, thanks
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08:36<TheJosh>i am also teaching myself gimp, after playing with Corel Photo Paint for ages, and Macromedia FIreworks
08:36<TheJosh>i like the gimp the most (and its easy to make extentions for)
08:37<+tokai>the only advance gimp has over photoshop is the price;)
08:37<TheJosh>gimp is pretty good i reckon
08:37<+tokai>its a bit uncomfortable to use, but i guess when you're linux only or short on bucks its the perfect choice
08:38<eekee>What I gather (I've never used Photoshop) is that the gimp is pretty good, but people seem to get more done with photoshop. Might be the large number of plugis avalable for ps
08:38<+tokai>a real pixel paint app for the modern OSes would be nice. U know.. something like DeluxPaint
08:39<eekee>yeah
08:39<TheJosh>hmm.
08:40<TheJosh>perhaps i will make that my first GTK+ project... i have been looking for something to do with GTK+ once i get better at c++
08:40<TheJosh>you wouldnt happen to know where the train loading code is?
08:40<eekee>I wouidn't, no
08:41<TheJosh>ung
08:42<Unaimed>perhaps BeginLoading is a place to start looking?
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08:42<TheJosh>looked there
08:43<Unaimed>LoadUnloadStation ?
08:43<TheJosh>i just had an idea. there was an old MiniIN patch that does something similar to what im doing. ill look at that
08:43<TheJosh>file?
08:44<Unaimed>LoadUnloadVehicle even
08:44<Unaimed>economy.cpp:1456
08:44<TheJosh>thanks
08:45<Unaimed>np, been getting used to following the code
08:45|-|DJGummikuh [~joey@clx-ac2-105-3.westend.com] has joined #openttd
08:45<DJGummikuh>hey which ports do I need to open in my firewall (tcp/udp) for OpenTTD to work?
08:46<Unaimed>The default is 3979.
08:46<Unaimed>for server hosting
08:47<Thomas[NL]>!port
08:47<eekee>wiki's back up
08:48<eekee>and the bot's down, lol
08:48<Eddi|zuHause2>!openttd port
08:48<_42_>Eddi|zuHause2: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
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08:49<DJGummikuh>oh I need tcp AND udp?
08:49<Eddi|zuHause2>it says that :)
08:49<DJGummikuh>well...
08:50<DJGummikuh>can someone please check if my server can be found? "DJGummikuh's playhouse" and if you can join it?
08:50<DJGummikuh>unfortunately I don't have a running client here right nwo to check myself
08:51<eekee>checking
08:52<TheJosh>you also may need to set up port forwarding, but i am not sure
08:52<DJGummikuh>no forwarding ^^
08:52<DJGummikuh>the iptables are running on the dedicated itself
08:52<eekee>DJGummikuh: found. version mismatch with me though ;0
08:53<DJGummikuh>?!?
08:53<eekee>:)
08:53<DJGummikuh>what version are you running?
08:53<eekee>r9963
08:53<DJGummikuh>hmm ok
08:55<Eddi|zuHause2>r7691M-MiniIN :)
08:56<Eddi|zuHause2>but i can see it, also.
09:01<blathijs>Greetings from the r10000 party!
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>i am pretty sure nobody else out there has my version number :)
09:01<Touqen>In your face
09:02<@Belugas>greetings to the party from the work farm , blathijs :)
09:02<@Belugas>say hi to everyone on my behalf!
09:02<Eddi|zuHause2>who can get me a teleportation device? :)
09:03<eekee>mew, what country, and what region of?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i even have two heisenberg compensators :)
09:04<eekee>^^;;
09:04<Eddi|zuHause2>honestly :)
09:05<Eddi|zuHause2>they are from some star trek card game... they were used as packaging material...
09:05<eekee>hehe!
09:07<Eddi|zuHause2>there also was a montgomery scott and an intrepid class ship (=voyager)
09:07<eekee>As packaging? dude
09:10<TheJosh>ok so why would this code not work?
09:10<TheJosh>int DeterminePercentTrainFilled(Vehicle *v) {
09:10<TheJosh>
09:10<TheJosh> int count = 0;
09:10<TheJosh> int max = 0;
09:10<TheJosh> do {
09:10<TheJosh> count += v->cargo_count;
09:10<TheJosh> max += v->cargo_cap;
09:10<TheJosh> } while ((v = v->next) != NULL);
09:10<TheJosh> return (count / max) * 100;
09:10<TheJosh>}
09:10<TheJosh>sorry about the big post
09:10<Eddi|zuHause2>TheJosh: paste.openttd.org
09:11<TheJosh>sorry
09:12<TheJosh>http://paste.openttd.org/82
09:12<TheJosh>always returns 0
09:13<Eddi|zuHause2>doesn't the code calculate such stats already with improved loading?
09:13<Eddi|zuHause2>count and max are integers
09:14<Eddi|zuHause2>so count/max is an integer division
09:14<Eddi|zuHause2>do (count*100)/max instead
09:14<TheJosh>ok thanks
09:14<+glx>and check for max != 0 before the div (just in case)
09:16<TheJosh>it works!
09:16<Eddi|zuHause2>of course it works :)
09:16<+glx>now try with an engine without wagons :)
09:17<TheJosh>not in this build
09:17<TheJosh>doesnt have that IF yet...
09:17<TheJosh>looks cool too, there is a floating percentage above the train
09:17<Nickman>if (max == 0) {
09:17<Nickman> return 0;
09:17<Nickman>}
09:18<Nickman>;)
09:18<Eddi|zuHause2>on one line without {}
09:18<stillunknown>Is there anything that would prevent simply adding a variable to the saveload table?
09:18<Nickman>don't know the coding conventions used so ;)
09:18<Eddi|zuHause2>you better read up on those :)
09:18<Nickman>or maybe throw an exeption if possible?
09:18<Eddi|zuHause2>they're in the wiki
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09:18<Nickman>yeah, but I havn't started coding anything so ;)
09:18<Nickman>don't worry :)
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09:19<Nickman>I'm in the middle of my exams right now...
09:19<Eddi|zuHause2>a min(max,1) should do also
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>err... MAX(max,1)
09:20<Eddi|zuHause2>i always pick the wrong one first :p
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09:23<stillunknown>MAX is a macro assume?
09:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i have seen those around, i don't know how they are called exactly...
09:24<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not like coding it would require more than 1 line and 2 minutes :)
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10:24<ln-_>http://www.linux.com/
10:24|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:26<@peter1138>BJARNI
10:27<hylje>ln-_: nice ads
10:29|-|Progman [~progman@p57A1EC3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:30<ln-_>what about BJARNI?
10:31|-|kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd
10:31<kaan>hi all
10:31|-|elmex [~elmex@e180064223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
10:32<hylje>BJARNI is cool
10:32<@Belugas>[11:28] <ln-_> what about BJARNI? <--- that usually means he did something very wrong in an attempt to fix a bug...
10:33<hylje>BJARNIsm
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10:37<skidd13>Is the output hiding (i mean stuff like "g++ -DUNIX -DWITH_REV -O2 -fomit-fram...") still in the new makefile?
10:37<@peter1138>yes
10:37<@peter1138>make VERBOSE=1
10:38<skidd13>I allway get the verbose variant. :(
10:39<@peter1138>make VERBOSE=0?
10:39<skidd13>Nope... Seems my bash didn't like it without verbose ;)
10:40<skidd13>didn't -> doesn't
10:41<skidd13>bash --version -> 3.1.17(1)-release
10:42<skidd13>or are for the hiding any special settings in the bashrc needed?
10:44<@peter1138>what does bash have to do with it?
10:45<skidd13>Cause I run make in bash !?
10:53<scia>:o
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11:25<ln-_>wtf: http://www.openttd.org/images/screens/r10000/r10000.png
11:26<@Belugas>cute, isn't it?
11:26<Touqen>weirdos
11:26<@Belugas>no
11:26<@Belugas>dedicated :D
11:26<Touqen>Same thing.
11:26<ln-_>it's cute, but how is it made? (assuming it's not made with adobe® photoshop®)
11:27<skidd13> real or fake?
11:27<Nickman>cool cake ;)
11:27<Touqen>Most bakerys have the ability to screen print onto cakes
11:27<@Belugas>a real cake, with a picture printed on a crust of sugar or wathever
11:27<Touqen>bakeries*
11:27<skidd13>awesome
11:27<Touqen>Like you can go and get someone's picture printed on their cake or whatever.
11:28<ln-_>cool
11:29<Tobin>Damnit, now I want cake.
11:29<Tobin>Night all.
11:29<hylje>delicious cake
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11:55<Wolf01>hello
11:56<@Bjarni>o_O
11:56<@Bjarni>why do we always join at the same time???
11:56<@Bjarni>are you stalking me?
11:56<Wolf01>yes
11:56<@Bjarni>...
11:56<stillunknown>Can an empty dedicated server be forced to run?
11:56<Wolf01>i'm behind the curtain
11:57<@Bjarni>stillunknown: I think so
11:57<Wolf01>set the min_clients to 0
11:57<Wolf01>in the cfg
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11:59<stillunknown>Wolf01: It's set to 0.
11:59<stillunknown>You are sure that should be it?
12:00<Wolf01>it should be the option you want
12:01<stillunknown>I find it odd, that i can't connect myself
12:01<@Bjarni>you should be able to do that
12:01<stillunknown>I desync before i'm even connected.
12:04<Wolf01>http://rafb.net/p/DrlZ4r57.html this is my cfg network section
12:06<Wolf01>if i set min_players to 0 the server continue to play
12:08<stillunknown>I can connect to an empty game, but i cannot connect to an existing (large) savegame.
12:08<Wolf01>just increase the max_join_time
12:09<@Bjarni>stillunknown: isn't PossibleRailDepot() the same as IsRailDepot()?
12:10<stillunknown>IsRailDepot asserts in !IsTileType(MP_RAILWAY)
12:10<stillunknown>It's like IsBridge and IsBridgeTile
12:10<stillunknown>One assumes rail, one doesn't.
12:10<@Bjarni>hmm
12:11<@Bjarni>+ return (IsTileType(t, MP_RAILWAY)
12:11<@Bjarni>+ && (GetRailTileType(t) == RAIL_TILE_DEPOT));
12:12<@Bjarni>wouldn't it be more like && IsRailDepot()?
12:13<stillunknown>Changed.
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12:14<@Bjarni>the point is that if somebody makes changes to depots and change IsRailDepot, then this function is already updated by using IsRailDepot()
12:15<stillunknown>I understand.
12:15<@peter1138>bjarni :D
12:16<@peter1138>Bjarni: vehicle.cpp:1863 is triggered
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12:19<@Bjarni>do we have any more details on this?
12:20<@peter1138>yeah
12:23<Wolf01>http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/electromagnetic_spectrum.png lol
12:23<stillunknown>Bjarni: Any other "last" comments?
12:25<@Bjarni>yeah
12:25<@Bjarni>I'm still reading
12:25<@Bjarni>I'm still wondering about TrainLeaveTile()
12:26<stillunknown>You need the unique tiles, then you need to determine the amount of cross points.
12:26<stillunknown>Which is a big difference from VehicleEnterTile.
12:28<stillunknown>Fortunately that part of the function is rarely reached.
12:28<@peter1138>Wolf01: was just looking at it :)
12:29<stillunknown>Bjarni: almost never in a normal network actually
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12:31<@Bjarni>btw I wonder about something else. How is trains in depots counted?
12:31<@Bjarni>I mean they are build, but they don't enter the tile
12:31<@Bjarni>they are just there
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12:32<stillunknown>if ( (IsTileType(v->tile, MP_RAILWAY) || IsTileType(v->tile, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE))
12:32<stillunknown> && (GetOccupancy(v->tile) > 1 || PossibleRailDepot(v->tile)) ) {
12:33<stillunknown>CheckTrainCollision(v);
12:33<stillunknown>Actually, that reminds me of something.
12:34<@peter1138>bah, i've got a problem
12:36<@peter1138>my dinner ran out ;(
12:37<@Bjarni>ran out?
12:37<@Bjarni>is it alive? :p
12:37<Phazorx>what controls how long trains stay on stations loading/unloading >?
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12:39<@Bjarni>+ if (IsTileType(tile, MP_RAILWAY) && GetOccupancy(tile) > 0
12:39<@Bjarni>+ && VehicleFromPos(tile, v, EnumCheckRoadVehCrashTrain) != NULL) { <-- but the && last on the previous line instead of first on this line (really minor issue)
12:39<Wolf01>[19:28:44] <peter1138> Wolf01: was just looking at it :)
12:39<Wolf01>eh what?
12:40<@Bjarni>Phazorx: There is a function for loading cargo... go look at it. Hint: it has the leave station sound playing
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12:42<stillunknown>Bjarni: i have more serious issue, a very strange regression, that i don't quite understand yet
12:43<@Bjarni>I don't think you will need to save freeze_cache
12:43<@peter1138>Wolf01|AWAY: XKCD
12:43<@Bjarni>it's false when you are outside ReverseTrainDirection(). Since you can't save when you are inside ReverseTrainDirection(), then it will always be false, making it pointless to save
12:48<stillunknown>stupid me, i changed IsRailDepot into IsRailWaypoint
12:49<@Bjarni>:P
12:49<Phazorx>Bjarni: i meant that patch flags affect it
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12:51<@Bjarni>bbl
12:51<stillunknown>Bjarni: btw, thanks for the depot, question, it uncovered that: IsTileType(v->tile, MP_RAILWAY) || IsTileType(v->tile, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE
12:52<stillunknown>wasn't needed and not enough
12:52<stillunknown>since that doesn't include stations and crossings
12:54<stillunknown>Bjarni: Now that that is out of the way, anything else?
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12:58<Wolf01>peter1138, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=XKCD what of those 4?
12:59<@peter1138>...
12:59<@peter1138>18:20 < Wolf01> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/electromagnetic_spectrum.png lol
12:59<Wolf01>(i think the first, is more train related)
12:59<Wolf01>aaaah
13:02<Wolf01>peter1138 you should know i'm a litte dull ;)
13:03<DJGummikuh>peter1138: LOL "space rays controlling steve ballmer"
13:04<Kjetil>That's why he has no hair on is head.. The hair was fucking with the reception
13:04<stillunknown>Bjarni has left me :-(
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13:08<@Bjarni>back
13:09<@Bjarni>stillunknown: did you see the && issue and the saving issue?
13:09<@Bjarni>or did you just look at the code and forget to read what I wrote in the channel ;)
13:10<stillunknown>Was it just that one && or more instances?
13:10<@Bjarni>one
13:10<stillunknown>That one is fixed, i will post the new diff, so you can see.
13:10<@Bjarni><Wolf01> peter1138 you should know i'm a litte dull ;) <-- I noticed that ages ago xD
13:10<@Bjarni>all humans are dull
13:12<stillunknown>Bjarni: new patch posted
13:14<@Bjarni>that's better
13:14<stillunknown>Bjarni: It's a shame not every piece of software is checked or made by a person like you.
13:15<stillunknown>You do ensure good code quality, which i can appreciate.
13:15<@peter1138>rofl
13:15<@Bjarni>LOL
13:15<stillunknown>I'm sure there's code on this planet which makes me cry.
13:16<Wolf01>lol
13:17<stillunknown>I wanted to say something nice for a change and people laugh :-( :-)
13:18<@Bjarni>it's not a matter of just saying something nice
13:19<@Bjarni>it's also WHAT you say xD
13:20<stillunknown>I just noticed one tiny thing, in the old savegame code.
13:20<stillunknown>So give me a minute.
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13:26<Wolf01>6 minutes...
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13:27<stillunknown>Sorry, i would like to do this the right way.
13:28<Wolf01>like me, but i say 2 or 3 days
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13:29<DJGummikuh>that is wrong
13:30<DJGummikuh>allthought I have my port opened up properly, I can't reach the server
13:30<DJGummikuh>!wiki port
13:30<DJGummikuh>!wiki openttd port
13:30<Wolf01>i needed 4 hours to write this: http://rafb.net/p/jxyZ7R22.html and maedhros did the same thing, but way better in less time
13:35<Wolf01>so you should know that what i make, is dome with a lot of sweat and headaches
13:41<stillunknown>Bjarni: are you here?
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13:49<stillunknown>Bjarni: updated diff posted, only change is in the savegame load algoritm
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14:02<stillunknown>Wolf01: practice makes perfect
14:02<Wolf01>yeah, is the second person who tell it ;)
14:02<Wolf01>*tell me
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14:07<Phazorx>first time i see that error: Too many names defined
14:08<Phazorx>there is a limit for renaming stations?
14:09<+glx>yes
14:09<Phazorx>is there a bypass?
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14:20<@Bjarni>AFAIK no
14:20<@Bjarni>at least not without coding and compiling
14:20<@Bjarni>stillunknown: the save line needs an extra space so it's aligned with the one next to it
14:21<@Bjarni>apart from that, it looks nice. Now you need people to test it
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14:26<stillunknown>Bjarni: extra space were?
14:26<stillunknown>exactly
14:27<stillunknown>SLE_CONDVARX(cpp_offsetof(Vehicle, u) + cpp_offsetof(VehicleRail, crossing_self), SLE_BOOL, 65, SL_MAX_VERSION),
14:27<stillunknown>that line?
14:28<eekee>Hey has anyone else noticed a bug in the nightlies (around 9963) where maglev bridges would have ordinary rail for one of their approaches and sometimes their length too? Has it been fixed?
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14:33<@peter1138>eekee: no
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14:35<eekee>peter1138: oh~ I've got that problem on a game I played a couple of years ago, recently dug out the save game & played it with r9897 (which was fine apart from a billion lost messages) and today loaded it up in 9963 with the symptoms described
14:37<@Bjarni><stillunknown> that line? <-- yes
14:37<eekee>Actually if I load up the save game from 2 years ago the bridges are fine
14:41<Wolf01>ooooook, seem that i fixed the OTTD writing in the title screen
14:41<Wolf01>this time only 2 hours
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14:48<TrueBrain>r10000 rules!!!!
14:48<Nickman>you partying? :)
14:49<TrueBrain>We just finished, but yeah
14:50<Nickman>cool
14:50<Nickman>how many people where there?
14:50<TrueBrain>enough :p
14:50<Nickman>how Was the cake ;)
14:50<TrueBrain>very nice :)
14:51<TrueBrain>now I am off :)
14:51<TrueBrain>bye all!
14:51<Nickman>cya ;)
14:53<hylje>what
14:53<eekee>there was a party, I believe
14:54<Wolf01>i hope the cake was good, i don't like so much that kind of cakes, but i would have liked that one
14:54<hylje>delicious cake
14:55<Sacro>cake?
14:55<Wolf01>http://www.openttd.org/images/screens/r10000/r10000_thumb.png
14:56<mikegrb>mmm cake
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14:58<eekee>Is there a program to extract the graphics from grfs, making image files?
14:59<@Belugas>it is called grfcoded
14:59<@Belugas>you can find it on ttdpatch's wiki
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14:59<stillunknown>Bjarni: What kind of testing is required before inclusion?
14:59<@Belugas>http://www.ttdpatch.net/grfcodec/
14:59<@Belugas>there
15:01<@Bjarni>stillunknown: verification that it will not assert would be a good start
15:01<@Bjarni>like in a zillion different games
15:02<eekee>ty Belugas
15:03<@Belugas>welcome :)
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15:18<stillunknown>Bjarni: How am i suppose to achieve that?
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15:22<XeryusTC><@Belugas> it is called grfcoded <- grfcodec, i make that mistake too when trying to compress/decompress :P
15:27<@Belugas>lol
15:28<eekee>hehe
15:29<eekee>I remembered hearing the name somewere, so 'translated'
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>stillunknown: prove your code correct :)
15:34<Wolf01>...don't beg the devs every 5 minutes... (i know something)
15:39<stillunknown>Wolf01: I only beg every 6 minutes ;-)
15:41<stillunknown>Is it acceptable to post a request in general openttd or is that frowned upon?
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15:44<@Bjarni><stillunknown> Bjarni: How am i suppose to achieve that? <--- trick somebody into testing your diff
15:45<@Bjarni>somebody already talked about one way to test this
15:45<stillunknown>The problem with multiplayer games is that everyone must have a modified build.
15:46<stillunknown>And somebody can hardly test a zillion savegames ;-)
15:47<Wolf01>'night all
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15:48<@Bjarni><stillunknown> And somebody can hardly test a zillion savegames ;-) <--- are you lazy or something???
15:48<@Bjarni>:P
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15:51<@Bjarni>I know that everybody has to have a custom build to test this on a network, but it kind of needs to be tested on network because if it causes desyncs, then we better know that before it's committed
15:52<+glx>stillunknown: that's why kaan suggested you ask coop players to test it :)
15:53<stillunknown>I asked Osai, he will test it on some kind of test server they run.
15:53<@Bjarni>good
15:53<@Bjarni>coop players also tend to know the game and will detect if it starts to behave oddly
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause>stillunknown: probably best if you provide a windows build on the forum
16:07<stillunknown>Eddi|zuHause: kind of hard to make without a windows box, but i suppose i can ask someone
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16:10<stillunknown>Is there a list of things that cause potential problems in network games?
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16:13<@Bjarni>both yes and no
16:14<@Bjarni>everything that affects gameplay can affect network games
16:15<@Bjarni>so if you managed to make the patch inconsistent so the cache isn't the same on both server and client, then you might end up with a cache of 1 on a tile with two trains
16:15<@Bjarni>I don't think that's likely though
16:15<@Bjarni>but if it's 1 on one computer and 2 on another one, then the trains crash one the latter, while they pass though each other on the first, which will cause a desync
16:16<stillunknown>But i desync before the game even starts, sometimes even on a normal build.
16:17<stillunknown>Is it possible that lacking newgrf, which are disabled cause problems?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>if it desyncs right away, it usually means that you screwed up saving/loading
16:25<valhallasw>what version are you using?
16:25<valhallasw>0.5 does not automagically check newgrfs iirc
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>the newgrf check is in 0.5
16:25<valhallasw>okay
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>and he's doing a patch for trunk
16:26<valhallasw>okay
16:26<valhallasw>ignore me then
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>that's supposed to optimise collision detection
16:27<valhallasw>stillunknown: have you added any new variables that need to be synced between server and client?
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16:33<@Bjarni><valhallasw> ignore me then <--- we always do that :p
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16:39<stillunknown>valhallasw: not that i know off
16:39<valhallasw>I just realized I missed the 10k-parteh
16:42<@Bjarni>too bad
16:42<@Bjarni>it appears to have been a blast
16:43<@Bjarni><valhallasw> stillunknown: have you added any new variables that need to be synced between server and client? <-- since I have looked at the diff and didn't find any, I would say that this is not the case
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18:09<skidd13>Rubidium: Any progress on my move orders patch?
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18:17<Rubidium>no (I'm just back from a long day of traveling and discussing)
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the party? :p
18:20<skidd13>ah
18:20<Rubidium>uhm...
18:25<skidd13>how was the cake? :)
18:25<Rubidium>very nice :)
18:27<skidd13>GN
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18:27<ln-_>ok, who was present at the party?
18:27|-|ln-_ changed nick to ln-
18:33<Ailure>:P
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>at least 3 people :)
18:40<ln->anyone arrested?
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>well, i was not there :)
18:41<+glx>http://www.stderr.nl/
18:43<ln->the party was held on quite a short notice...
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>it was like a week in advance...
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18:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10049 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: get rid of the SLE_WRITEBYTE obfuscation.
18:59<UndernotBuilder>What can be done for making servers use a 'standarized' revision so the servers use that one and not different ones and then getting more players to the nightlies?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>what?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>the "standard" revision will always be the current stable...
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>that's why it is the current stable
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19:01<UndernotBuilder>for example - server admins agree to use rXXXXX revision for their servers
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>there'd be no point in a stable if nobody used it
19:02<UndernotBuilder>that's because I don't use nightlies / want to get 0.6.0 released
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>so what is the problem?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>current stable is 0.5.2, if you use that, you will find the most compatible servers
19:03<UndernotBuilder>but there are less features in 0.5.2
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>so?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>trunk is by far not ready for 0.6.0
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>or rather, it is too soon after 0.5.0
19:04<UndernotBuilder>no trams, no one way roads, no other great features
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>but still, what is the problem?
19:05<UndernotBuilder>I want to play with more features
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>and what does that have to do with specific revisions?
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>if you find an unstable server, just get the revision that server runs
19:06<UndernotBuilder>because generally servers uses different revisions
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>that's what 'svn up -r XXXXX' is for
19:06<DJGummikuh>this does not make any sense
19:06<DJGummikuh>I allowed port 3979 udp and tcp
19:06<DJGummikuh>nevertheless I can't connect to the server
19:07<UndernotBuilder>and I don't want to download 3484189471 different revisions
19:07<@Belugas>UndernotBuilder : if nobody test the nightlies, how can we find all the bugs that are in it?
19:07<@Belugas>don't forget that nighlies will bring 0.6.0 and others as well...
19:07<UndernotBuilder>that's the point
19:07<DJGummikuh>only if I do iptables -F it works
19:07<DJGummikuh>btw
19:07<DJGummikuh>I have a strange bug with 0.5.2
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>UndernotBuilder: the point of a nightly is that it is a different one every night
19:07<UndernotBuilder>make the nightlies more popular
19:08<DJGummikuh>when on tracks from lower right to upper left, the coal lorrys for monorails appear full when they are empty
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>UndernotBuilder: then start your own nightly server
19:08<DJGummikuh>as soon as the train alters direction they appear empty again but as long as it travelles from upper left to lower right or vice versa they allways look full
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>and deal with all the issues that come with it
19:08<UndernotBuilder>and the others nightly servers?
19:09<@Belugas>what about them?
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19:09<UndernotBuilder>and also, I will not get too many clients like in stables
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>brianettas nightly was very popular
19:10<UndernotBuilder>and the others servers will not use always the same revision than my server
19:10<DJGummikuh>does someone here have a 0.5.2 running?
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>until he decided to stop it, because trunk got very little changes, while important features were developed in branches
19:10<DJGummikuh>and can tell me if it needs any other port than 3979 in tcp and udp?
19:10<@Belugas>DJGummikuh, no, sorry
19:10<@Belugas>but i will eventually check it
19:10<DJGummikuh>Belugas: yeah looks rather odd ^^
19:10<Rubidium>DJGummikuh: it doesn't, unless you want to run an advertised server
19:11<DJGummikuh>Rubidium: it already is advertised
19:11<DJGummikuh>dbg: [NET][UDP] We are advertised on the master-server!
19:11<DJGummikuh>well wait
19:11<DJGummikuh>that was before I started my firewall..
19:11<DJGummikuh>what ports do I need for an advertised server?
19:11<Rubidium>!openttd port
19:11<_42_>Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
19:12<DJGummikuh>Rubidium: I know that... but this info does not make my server appear when it should...
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>then you misconfigured your firewall
19:12<DJGummikuh>I have tcp and udp for 3979 activated and I don't need to declare any outgoing things
19:12<+glx>do you have a router?
19:12<DJGummikuh>glx: no
19:12<DJGummikuh>that's why I run iptables on the machine hosting the server ^^
19:12<DJGummikuh>it has a global ip
19:13<DJGummikuh>iptables -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT #OpenTTD
19:13<DJGummikuh>iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT #OpenTTD
19:13<DJGummikuh>that should be ok, no?
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>i did not try to configure iptables manually yet...
19:14<Rubidium>if it works without firewall *and* you didn't force the port to be different, that should be OK if it were the only lines, but other lines could kick OTTD packets on beforehand
19:14<+glx>DJGummikuh: I can see your playhouse server
19:14<DJGummikuh>odd
19:15<DJGummikuh>yes and now I even can access it... why couldn't I do so before? *confused*
19:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10050 /trunk/ (config.lib configure): -Codechange: make it a little easier to force a version number (for releases).
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>DJGummikuh: the order of the rules is often important
19:15<DJGummikuh>odd
19:15<DJGummikuh>Eddi|zuHause: I haven't changed anything
19:16<DJGummikuh>Eddi|zuHause: hmm...
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>they always say that :p
19:16<UndernotBuilder>but someone has a solution for my trouble?
19:16<DJGummikuh>maybe some of the admins of the net gone loco again -.-
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19:18<Eddi|zuHause>i always used the SuSEFirewall2 wrapper to configure iptables
19:19<DJGummikuh>Eddi|zuHause: well I'm more the old fashioned way and do it by hand.. that way I can be quite sure that (despite my own dumbness) nothing stands between what I WANT the firewall to do and what it actually DOES :D
19:20<@Belugas>UndernotBuilder, i don't think that the simple fact of using nightlies will push users away. Make it attractive with some nice features, like cool maps, a good set of grfs, thinkgs like that
19:20<@Belugas>advertise it on your signature,
19:20<@Belugas>let yourself visible
19:20<@Belugas>and do not care about the other servers, only yours
19:21<DJGummikuh>ah btw visible servers
19:22<DJGummikuh>you should really somehow forbid to add special chars as first char in the server name to push the server further to the top when listed by name
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19:22<Rubidium>DJGummikuh: then everybody would call his server aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
19:22<DJGummikuh>if you only allow letters to be the first char, this habit should go away
19:22<DJGummikuh>Rubidium: I don't think so
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>there are two basic ways to run a nigtly server: a) stop the game each night, update the binary, reload the game again, or b) start the game on one revision, and keep it until the game ends, then update for the next game
19:22<DJGummikuh>,.-'°FunnyServer°'-., doesn't look as stupid as
19:23<DJGummikuh>AAAAAAAAAAA Funny Server
19:23<Rubidium>still, who cares about that ordering?
19:23<DJGummikuh>Well I do since I need a way to find my server which starts with D
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>you could introduce a setting to ignore special characters when sorting
19:23<DJGummikuh>as an alternative you could implement something like a favorite list
19:24<DJGummikuh>or "recently played" or something similar
19:24<+glx>DJGummikuh: use connect_to in cfg
19:24<Rubidium>connect once manually to that server by entering it's IP or dns name
19:24<DJGummikuh>and then?
19:25<+glx>[servers] section is a good thing too
19:25<Rubidium>the next time it'll already be in the server list
19:25<DJGummikuh>oh
19:25<DJGummikuh>cool
19:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10051 /trunk/ (Makefile.src.in config.lib): -Add: git "version" detection so we've got at least some indication what version we're playing when using git ;)
19:37<@Belugas>http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/nice_forest.png
19:37<@Belugas>toumdedoum!
19:40<DJGummikuh>you made it?
19:41<Sleepie>Nice one :) is the space between the four parts usable for infrastructure or is it just eyecandy?
19:43<@Belugas>http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/cross_forest.png
19:43<@Belugas>nope
19:43<@Belugas>they are the creation of mr Pikka
19:43<DJGummikuh>what is so special about it that its worth a screenshot though?
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19:43<@Belugas>that is a little victory i had just a few minutes ago over newindustries !
19:44<DJGummikuh>what's newindustries? (sorry if this is a dumb question)
19:44<@Belugas>DJGummikuh, try to meet a forest like those two in the current game ;)
19:44<@Belugas>it's a grf specs that enables creating and/or modifying industries
19:45<@Belugas>ingame
19:45<@Belugas>we had newhouses recently, newindustries is the logical follow up
19:45<Sleepie>Belugas: ahh, Pikka's latest creations anyway really nice and even better to see them in a openttd game ;)
19:46<DJGummikuh>Belugas: well I have a rather large forest in my current game on my server.. looks like 2 forests put next to each other but is only one
19:47<Sleepie>DJGummikuh: are you sure it's only one?
19:47<DJGummikuh>Sleepie: well if I click on it, only one info window openes
19:48<Sleepie>DJGummikuh: hmm, even if you click at different edges? Perhaps you have a screenie of it?
19:49<DJGummikuh>Sleepie: if you have 0.5.2 handy you could simply join and check for yourself.. I'll double-check though
19:50<DJGummikuh>ok now two windows were opened
19:50<Sleepie>:P
19:50<DJGummikuh>hmm..
19:50<DJGummikuh>I would have bet money on that last time I checked there was only one forest.. :)
19:51<Sleepie>well no prob, I do that often when I make new maps
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>how far is it from this success to the "end-victory"? :p
19:51<@Belugas>there are only 2 versions of the forest ingame. one with 18 tiles, the other with 23. but none bare the same patterna s the two i've just shonw
19:53<DJGummikuh>ah yeah one other thing.. why aren't you on freenode?
19:54<DJGummikuh>right now I have to be on 4 irc servers because everybody is on his own irc server... that sucks
19:55<Rubidium>because there were some trouble with freenode for a very long time and at a point it was "enough" and we moved
19:55<DJGummikuh>hmm... problems with their policy or what?
19:56<+glx>register for PM is an example
19:57<@Belugas>this one for sure you don't see often around : http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/OilPowered.png
19:57<DJGummikuh>glx: actually I like that policy
19:57<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause : i still maintain my ETA : somewhere around fall
19:57<DJGummikuh>lol nice
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>fall gets nearer every day :)
20:00<@Belugas>yeah. but it's 3 months long :D
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20:12<Sleepie>time for bed, g'night all
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20:34<gass>hello there
20:34<gass>is the svn admin here?
20:34|-|geoffk [~geoffk@host86-130-159-207.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
20:34<gass>it's about trac
20:36<Rubidium>what's with trac?
20:37<gass>the problem that svn.openttd.org is facing is fixed in trac 0.10.4
20:37<gass>two concurrent resync attempts can leave the database in an inconsistent state
20:37<gass>and also give instability problems
20:38|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7575B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:38<Rubidium>does instability mean horribly slow?
20:38<gass>yes
20:38<+glx>the problem was ressource usage IIRC
20:39<gass>glx, yes ... i just remembered this problem in openttd ... we fixed this in trac 0.10.3 in debian, but it's fixed in trac 0.10.4
20:39<gass>i just tought you could try 0.10.4
20:40<gass>well ... cy
20:40<gass>off to bed
20:40<Rubidium>TrueBrain: ^ can you confirm that trac is fixed?
20:41<Rubidium>(don't expect response for the next at least 6 hours or so from TrueBrain)
20:41<gass>no ... i just remembered your case ... and decided to check with you
20:41<gass>well ... cya
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20:53<Sacro>Rubidium: when he sobers up?
20:54<Rubidium>that's not needed at all
20:57<Sacro>when he stops eating cake :p
20:58<Rubidium>boekabart took that
21:05<Sacro>lol
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 07 00:00:41 2007