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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-18

---Logopened Mon Jun 18 00:00:40 2007
00:19<Giddorah>G'morning everyone :)
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00:51<|Gekkko|>i just got the latest nightly
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00:52<Gekko>trams are disabled?
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03:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10196 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovenian.txt):
03:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-18 10:15:44
03:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: japanese - 2 fixed by ickoonite (2)
03:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 3 fixed by Necrolyte (3)
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05:27<TrueBrain>you guys are boring!
05:28<Gekko>No i"m not.
05:29<TrueBrain>proof me wrong ;)
05:30<Gekko>lol prove not proof
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05:31<Gekko>I like to fly planes upside down
05:31<Gekko>put that in OpenTTD
05:31<Rubidium>Gekko: trams are not enabled when you don't have a newgrf that adds trams
05:31<Gekko>Rubidium: I relised that :)
05:31<Gekko>wow nice typo I have there
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05:42<eekee>Can you make a truck with a null cargo, but refittable? I mean, could I make a GRF with chassis cab trucks refittable to carry wood / ore / coal/ etc?
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05:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10197 /trunk/src/ (45 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: replace int32 with CommandCost where appropriate.
05:48<Eddi|zuHause2>i see no reason why it shouldn't be
05:49<Gekko>eekee: sounds cool :)
05:50<Gekko>eekee: you could make them carry 2 passengers initially
05:50<Gekko>two seats :P
05:50<eekee>hehe ya
05:50<Gekko>if people actually use it, they're idiots :)
05:50<Gekko>or me...
05:50<Gekko>that sounds really cool though
05:51<Gekko>is there still a max. limit of vehicles that can be added to TTD?
05:51<eekee>I'm thinking of realism, & also freeing up road vehicle ID #s
05:51<Gekko>because that could be a way to minimize that problem.
05:51<Gekko>so you are on the same page as me :D
05:51<eekee>yep hehe, you can't actually /add/ any, only reuse numbers.
05:51<Gekko>goods truck could also be a food truck
05:51<Gekko>without looking odd.
05:52<eekee>Yeah & you can use 2nd company color to distinguish them. UKRS does that with it's train trucks
05:52<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, like the wagons in the DBSet, they can be refitted to a lot of stuff
05:52<Gekko>Iron Ore and Steel in one truck
05:53<Gekko>Paper rolls in an oil tanker? xD
05:53<Eddi|zuHause2>that wouldn't work very well...
05:53<Gekko>mail truck and a paper truck?
05:53<eekee>paper trucks in TTD are flat bed, so they go with steel, wood, etc
05:54<Gekko>that's daft
05:54<Gekko>wouldnt the paper blow away?
05:54<eekee>no it's on tonne+ reels :D
05:54<Gekko>I <3 Purno's 2cc railset
05:54<Gekko>which hasnt been released yet
05:55<eekee>ever visited a printing factory IRL? A real production one, not a museum keeping little old flatbed presses running
05:55<Gekko>yes i have
05:55<eekee>The paper reels an be 1-5 tonnes or more :D
05:55<Gekko>but I'm not quite away alright?
05:56<Gekko>not away
05:56<Gekko>my brain is away
05:56<eekee>okay, fair enough
05:56<Gekko>will there ever be a point where more vehicles could be added?
05:57<Eddi|zuHause2>if you program it...
05:57<eekee>someone sugested it in this thead in the TTDPatch graphics forums, & I think someone said it would break a lot of stuff. I'm always skeptical of such breakage claims, but they usually mean a lot more work would have to be put in
05:58<Gekko>because you'd have to tell everything that 5 isnt the last number
05:58<Gekko>7 is
05:59<Gekko>they'd all be like "BUT ITS BEEN 5 SINCE 1995! I AINT CHANGIN'."
05:59<Gekko>OpenTTD hits it with some trout, it's all good.
06:00<Gekko>10kb/s breaks my balls.
06:01<eekee>bahahahaha >D
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06:01<eekee>That's in the TTDPatch gfx forum since that's where the thread that gave me the idea was
06:02<Gekko>high five.
06:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10198 /trunk/src/fileio.h: -Fix (r10194): did not search all search paths.
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06:08<Purno>Gekko , thanks
06:09<Gekko>when do you think it will be nearly complete?
06:09<Gekko>couple of months?
06:09<Purno>can't say
06:09<Purno>the coder will have very little time the coming years
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06:11<eekee>years? New baby? New job?
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06:16<Gekko>release the unclean code and allow someone to fix it?
06:16<eekee>It's probably already in an accessable branch isnt' it?
06:17<eekee>Hey does OTTD support new industries? I ask because I loaded up the mars conversion grf & the industries retained the Toyland names and... squeaks... D:
06:17<Rubidium>not yet, but it's under development
06:17<eekee>ok cool
06:18<eekee>I can still rename industries & cargos with action 4 can't I?
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06:19<Maedhros>cargos yes, industries no
06:23<eekee>dang :/
06:23<eekee>ah well
06:27<eekee>Can I restrict the available bridges for each track type, or or change the bridge speed / cost / length settings?
06:28<@peter1138>^^ that's how far i got with documenting my plans for bridges :o
06:29<eekee>k :D
06:29<eekee>LOL ok
06:30<@peter1138>actually i have a little more than that
06:30<@peter1138>but only a little;)
06:31<eekee>ok hehe
06:31<@peter1138>but speed, cost & length are adjustable, iirc
06:31<@peter1138>track type restriction isn't
06:31<eekee>ahh cool cool
06:33<eekee>I'm checking what can be done now, because I'm making a lunar 'climate' & would rather make it & get it out there than wait for new features
06:34<Gekko>I'm out peeps, cya later
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06:40<Phazorx>lunar climate?
06:41<Phazorx>no plains or combustion engine, 1/6th of gravity?
06:41<Phazorx>and ability to throw cargo rather than transporting some tiles away :)
06:41<mikegrb>just don't throw it too hard, might go into orbit
06:42<Phazorx>... and there is no water too as well as treess
06:42<Phazorx>and instead of nlo crashing/disasters you get lunahod robbing your trains
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06:42<TheJosh>hey all
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06:45<eekee>Phazorx: :D I didn't think of throwing or lunahod, but ya!
06:45<Phazorx>well it will be boring w/o it
06:46<Phazorx>and instead of transmiter tower - appolo program remains and unremovable US banners
06:46<eekee>You want to code the throwing transport then? :D
06:46<Phazorx>actually i'd rather code something stats related
06:46<Phazorx>similar to long forgotten stats patch
06:47<eekee>fairy snuff
06:47<Phazorx>i have a feelign industries will be scarce there tho
06:48<mikegrb>a golf ball factory
06:49<eekee>Phazorx: so should towns.....
06:49<Ailure>imagine the industry chains
06:49<Phazorx>why ? little grays are crawling all other the place there
06:49<Ailure>if you had to include every minor industry in existance
06:49<eekee>hehe Ailure
06:49<Phazorx>i can see cheese mine being a part of some chain for sure btw :)
06:50<eekee>pffff XD
06:50<Phazorx>gotta give props to Mr Jules Verne
06:50<TheJosh>hey i just did a svn update (to 10178) and it wont compile anymore
06:50<eekee>ooh yum, blue brie
06:50<Phazorx>heh that answers whether we want to test your patch btw :)
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06:51<TheJosh>no it was comipling before the update
06:51<TheJosh>ill test with a vanilla build
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06:52<eekee>funny, I thought I grabbed 10179 with svn but it's reading as 10178
06:53<TheJosh>there is a configure option to change that
06:54<TheJosh>now its compiling, but when i go to update the other one again, I get 'inconsistant newlines' so annoying
06:54<TheJosh>./configure -r i think
06:54<eekee>ah, ty
06:54<hylje>eekee: if the nightly revision is a commit elsewhere than trunk, trunk gets inconsistent revisions
06:55<TheJosh>all thorough it? its such a pain
06:55<eekee>ah no big deal then
06:55<hylje>eekee: compile farm sets the exact revision
06:55<eekee>(not for me anyway)
06:55<TheJosh>it only happens to my texteff.cpp
06:55<hylje>and local copy gets it from svn, which thinks the trunk's rev is a bit lower
06:56<eekee>hylje: I often play with a friend who compiles fron svn
06:56<TrueBrain>[13:54] <hylje> eekee: if the nightly revision is a commit elsewhere than trunk, trunk gets inconsistent revisions <- what kind of gibberish are you talking?
06:56<eekee>svn-gibberish, I thought
06:57<eekee>Made some sense to me, the svn counting revisions whether or not they're in trunk, but maybe I've only half thought it through
06:58<TrueBrain>svn commits are global, no matter where they go
06:58<TrueBrain>so it happens that 'trunk' skips revisions from time to time
06:58<TrueBrain>but both 10179 and 10178 are in trunk
06:58<TrueBrain>also, the make-system knwos about it, and uses the last revision that was a commit to the trunk
06:58<eekee>Ah yes, what I thought was happening
06:58<hylje>it appears make uses the revision as in svn info
06:59<TrueBrain>(say, revision 1 and 3 are in trunk, but 2 and 4 are not, and you do a checkout, you get a compile with revision 3)
06:59<eekee>yeah that's what I understood hylje's statement to mean
06:59<TrueBrain>it has little to do with 'nightly revision' :s
06:59<hylje>just as planned
07:00<hylje>TrueBrain: the revision that is picked in compile-farm
07:00<TrueBrain>hylje: is always the latest version commited to the trunk
07:00<TrueBrain>which is always the version you get when you do a checkout at the same time
07:02<TrueBrain>in other words: if you tihnk you need to change the revision number manually, you did something wrong.
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07:03<hylje>sometimes when i update to a revision (svn up), the default configure's perceived revision is not the same as the revision given to svn up
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07:03<eekee>heh, if you grab the source tarball from the nightlies page you have to set the revision manually. Why is that?
07:03<TrueBrain>if you do not override the revision via configure, the make system always uses the right revision
07:03<TrueBrain>eekee: as it isn't a SVN checkout ;)
07:04<eekee>oh mew
07:04<TrueBrain>hmm, we might be able to fix that though...
07:04<TrueBrain>hmm, good one eekee
07:04<@peter1138>TrueBrain: then when somebody modifies it it won't show as M
07:04<TrueBrain>peter1138: very true
07:04<TrueBrain>so we might just want to postfix it with S or something
07:04<TrueBrain>as in: source-tarball
07:05<TrueBrain>so: opentd-r10101S
07:05<TrueBrain>at least gives a tiny bit more info
07:05<TrueBrain>no, useless
07:05<TrueBrain>you are right :)
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it also won't show M if they force the revision...
07:09<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: but in that case they are informed about the risk they are taking
07:09<TrueBrain>we can only advise people, never disallow it
07:09<TrueBrain>(the nature of Open Source ;))
07:12<Eddi|zuHause2>for that case, you could create a checksum over all source files... if it does not match, add an M
07:12<@peter1138>too much effort
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07:18<Smoovious>as long as we're talking revisions... whenever I compiled with vc2005, via svn, althought I haven't tried to compile in the past month, it always came up norev000... where would I set the rev?
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07:29<eekee>that's odd... you know rail & monorail have sprites of just the track in \ / | _ directions? Where's the equivalent maglev junctions?
07:29<Maedhros>no, just hard to see
07:29<Maedhros>most of the maglev track is actually the ground tile
07:30<Maedhros>the track itself is the black bars that go across the grey bit
07:31<eekee>I can't even find sprites for the black bars. *looks harder*
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07:40<eekee>Ahuh! I think I have them
07:41<eekee>yep: sprites 1169-1173 in trg1r
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07:43<eekee>ok brain derailed. I don't need the bars I need the track. *cuts out*
07:43<hylje>derailed :o
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07:54[~]eekee wonders whether to keep the ditches either side of maglev track or just lay the cut-out tracks on flat terrain for a slightly neater look
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08:30<Gekko>whats new coming to openttd
08:31<Biff>naked girls
08:31<Gekko>oh rly?
08:31<Gekko>on buses or what
08:32<Nickman>no, real naked girls ;)
08:32<Nickman>in 32bpp
08:32<dihedral>does autoclean_protected = 0 no protected companies get ignored, or their pass gets cleared right away?
08:32<SmatZ>Naked Girls tileset
08:33<dihedral>talking about 0.5.2
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08:33<Gekko>Nickman: :o
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08:34<SmatZ>Gekko: the reason why this thread exists ->
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08:37<SmatZ>nevermind, sometimes I try to be funny :(
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08:41<Gekko>why dont we turn boat #'ds into trains?
08:41<Gekko>;screw boats xD
08:41<Gekko>I <3 Trams.
08:42<Gekko>it got hit by a train twice >.>
08:45<eekee>trams you have to wait for the crashed one to go before letting it's clone leave the depot
08:46<eekee>otherwise the clone will wait behind the crashed one until it clears... and then move onto the tracks regardless of whether there's a train on them or not!
08:47<eekee>wierd lol
08:47<Gekko>take that serbian tram!
08:48<Gekko>any other tram grfs?
08:48<Gekko>serbian angers the blood
08:48<Gekko>slavic anglicised *shivers*
08:49<eekee>there's a german set, and a UK set under construction
08:50<Gekko>how hard is it to make a grf?
08:50<Gekko>i'd make an aussie tram set if itt was ewasy
08:51<Eddi|zuHause2>there's a tutorial on the ttdpatch wiki
08:52<Gekko>that wasnt my question.
08:52<Eddi|zuHause2>it is usually not hard to follow a tutorial :p
08:53<Eddi|zuHause2>and no, it is not an answer to your question, but a hint on how you can answer it yourself...
08:54<eekee>I followed that tutorial but used data from the Serbian set instead of the original, & made a couple other changes, came up with a refittable tram fairly easily. Took me time, & double-checking, but it wasn't hard as such
08:55<Gekko>how long did it take?
08:55<Gekko>my trams wil be green with the company stripe with medfium windows
08:56<eekee>afternoon & evening, for one tram. This is starting from knowing nothing about trams
08:56<Gekko>tomorrow, or 16 hours
08:57<Gekko>i shall attempt.
08:57<Gekko>linux for the win!
08:57<Gekko>time to learn xara, mtpaint & gimp
09:00<eekee>I'm using gimp, never even heard of the other 2.
09:01<eekee>I don't think gimp's ideal for paletized art, but I don't know if pain programs that are would be any good for the saturation & contrast changes I'm making
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09:09<Gekko>eekee: try mtpaint
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09:10<eekee>Gekko: Does it have layers? Because they're, like, my modus operandii
09:11<vertigo>Does someone know how to fix this "problem / bug"
09:12<Gekko>eekee: dunno, try it?
09:12<eekee>mew, k
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09:22<eekee>ere, anybody know if 1/6th gravity would mean 1/6th the tractive effort, for ordinary rail locos?
09:25<Phazorx>eekee: steem and disel wont work there btw
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09:25<eekee>Phazorx: you don't say? :)
09:25<Phazorx>and yes traction will be proportionaly smaller since friction is based on weight not mass
09:26<Phazorx>eekee: i meant they should not :)
09:26<eekee>muclear-powered steam engine.....
09:27<XeryusTC>Phazorx: most friction comes from air friction, not roll friction
09:27<Phazorx>train crash would mean end of game tho
09:27<XeryusTC>especially on the higher speeds
09:27<Phazorx>XeryusTC: eh... traction effort?
09:27<@peter1138>heh, vertigo...
09:27<@peter1138>but they left :/
09:27<eekee>XeryusTC: if it wasn't for roll friction, the train couldn't flipping start moving :D
09:27<Phazorx>and btw - another bonus
09:27<eekee>it's /that/ friction we're talking about
09:27<XeryusTC>eekee: barrings...
09:27<Phazorx>no air no resistance
09:27<eekee>I knoooooow!
09:28<Gekko>eekee: put a tr_ain in a vacuum
09:28<Phazorx>i meant that for XeryusTC as responce to his comment
09:28<Gekko>test theories.
09:28<Phazorx>there will be tons of air like friction there
09:28<eekee>oh sorry
09:28<Phazorx>due to dust
09:29<eekee>hmm, train vibration will kick up a bit....
09:29<Phazorx>so nice 'steam smoke' effect can be put to use even on mlevs
09:30<eekee>do you think a mag-lev will kick up much? I'm thinking mag-levs will be used a lot since the lift is cheaper & ordinary rails so much less effective
09:30<Gekko>trains to mars from earth lool.
09:30<Phazorx>well ground vibration will raise dust
09:30<Phazorx>wont matter what kind of poer source they use
09:30<Phazorx>mlev howvers right ?
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09:32<Phazorx>so theoretically there will be less physical dislocation of track in case of mlev
09:32<eekee>yeah, but it's kept up & pulled along by magnets in the track as well as the train.
09:32<eekee>Yeah, a little, but not much.
09:32<Phazorx>problem is - 1/6 of gravity means dust coulds hang for hours/days
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09:33<Phazorx>oh yeah... ramps
09:33<Phazorx>accelerating up will be same or harder issue, but maintaining sped will be 6 times easier
09:34<Gekko>lol flight
09:34<Gekko>from hills
09:35<eekee>Will have to limit maglevs to below the lunar escape velocity.... actually no, we won't! The track could pull down as easily as up
09:36<eekee>(remember it pulls left-right automatically in a self-correcting way too)
09:37<Phazorx>it will pull track as much up as train down
09:37<SmatZ>you dont need planes, you can just throw the goods from one place to another
09:37<Phazorx>and given amount of trains coopers games have - with some luck and resonance effect we can deorbit the moon :)
09:38<Phazorx>SmatZ: from and throw path - no doubt
09:38<Phazorx>however no one canceled mass along with gravity
09:38<Phazorx>meaning goods will be a bit.... damaged on arrival
09:39<Phazorx>desipte ease of takeoff :)
09:39<Gekko>Phazorx: no American spelling.
09:39<eekee>ooh... mag-lev accellerator launched 'planes'
09:39<Gekko>cancelled or nada :P
09:40<eekee>The americans have sane spelling lol
09:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10199 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: -Fix [FS#884, YAPF]: 'target_seen' flag that is set prematurely in some cases (1 tile long cached segment followed by target station) stops on assert (immeR)
09:40<Phazorx>sorry, lack of sleep affects my brainpowered spellchecker
09:40<Phazorx>and i rarely bother to correct mistakes anyway
09:40[~]eekee is British, has to put up with arcane wierdness introduced by a franglophillic royalty over the last few hundreds of years
09:41[~]Gekko is Australian, UK's alien offspring.
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09:41[~]Phazorx has excuse of being russian, and english being 3rd language :o)
09:43<eekee>Oh my nephews became Australian citizens recently. Their dad was born there, but his family moved away when he was like, 1 month old, lol
09:44<Gekko>i was 3 when ttd came out >.>
09:44<Gekko>8 when i played dos version
09:44<eekee>ever play toyland?
09:45[~]eekee guesses no, or not for long <_<;
09:45<eekee>heh ^^
09:45<Gekko>so gay.
09:45<Gekko>arctic <3
09:46<eekee>Arctic.. tropical... didn't like temperate so much, the green gets on my nerves after a bit
09:46<eekee>or used to, I've got hardened to such things, lol
09:47<Phazorx>stolen trees... thats's a one big reason to play temperate
09:47<Gekko>green makes me angry.
09:50<eekee>makes me feel a bit... sorta ill, especially in the shade that TTD temperate uses
09:51<eekee>Tropical's not so bad, but I still find I much prefer to look at the brown areas
09:54<Gekko>me too :)
09:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i hate the brown "grass" of arctic...
09:54<Gekko>i love the farms
09:54<Gekko>after i nuke em::
09:55<Eddi|zuHause2>i think we should get the alpine set supported...
09:55<Gekko>wait alpine
09:55<eekee>mmm, I find it a bit icky too
09:56<Gekko>thats pure snow.
09:57<Gekko>seen it i believe
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i think it requires newindustries
09:58<Eddi|zuHause2>and probably other stuff like varying snowline is not implemented
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09:59<@peter1138>it is actually
10:00<Eddi|zuHause2>cool... but it's just a minor feature :)
10:00<Gekko>i need sleep nowe
10:00<Gekko>ttyl guys b:)
10:00<@peter1138>yeah, and another one we stole ;p
10:01<Eddi|zuHause2>why invent new features if there are still so many to steal :p
10:05[~]eekee goes to research lunar dust
10:06<eekee>oh btw, I think we should steal ttdpatch features :) I'm gettign jealous of their grf lol!
10:08<@Belugas>not steal. Honnour their work by implementing it.
10:08<@Belugas>looks better ;)
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10:13<eekee>Yeah :)
10:13<skidd13>Is newgrf action5 type 09 supported?
10:13<skidd13>aka one way road arrows?
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11:00<Digitalfox>Hi everybody :)
11:01<TrueBrain>hi Digitalfox
11:03<Digitalfox>I'm starting a new game and some settings from 10199 are new to me, since I've been playing a savegame from the 95** revision and didn't update it since newgrf patch change ( caused me problems ).. What does "smooth viewport scrolling" does? Searched the wiki but it's not there yet..
11:04<TrueBrain>switch it on :)
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11:05<Digitalfox>TrueBrain: My idea was also to put the description on wiki, since it's not there :)
11:05<TrueBrain>then ask peter1138 :)
11:05<Digitalfox>But i'll try and see if i can understand what it does ;)
11:05<TrueBrain>peter1138 is all knowing :)
11:05<Digitalfox>yep :)
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11:09<Digitalfox>What is a good default service interval for aircraft when breakdown are disabled and my only care is accidents with aircraft?
11:10<Digitalfox>400 days?
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11:10<@peter1138>no servicing is necessary if breakdowns are disabled
11:11<izhirahider>Digitalfox, "smooth viewport scrolling": "deslocamento suave do ecrã quando usas o rato"
11:11<izhirahider>now try to cramp that up into a translation, impossible
11:11<Digitalfox>izhirahider: Oh ok :) Obrigado..
11:15<elmex>wow. i'm gone for one week and there is some weird bi-directional pbs floating around the wiki
11:15<TrueBrain>the wiki has many things
11:15<TrueBrain>is not really related to your not being here :)
11:20<Digitalfox>but peter1138, aircraft reliability doesn't influence accidents?? I thought so... :\
11:21<Digitalfox>I thought the lower more accidents would occur.
11:22<@peter1138>nope, it's just random
11:23<Digitalfox>oh ok, thanks for explaining :)
11:25<Smoovious>and if breakdown are diabled, also look to see if servicing is also disabled
11:26<@peter1138>that's a patch option, yeah
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11:35<stillunknown>What was the shortcut for transparency options?
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11:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10200 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add "shortcut" for !CmdFailed (CmdSucceeded).
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11:44<skidd13>Do one way arrows affect trams?
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11:45<Maedhros>skidd13: no
11:46<stillunknown>By design?
11:46<stillunknown>Or just happens to be that way.
11:46<skidd13>I wonderd cause arrows on rail crossings are permitted but on tram crossings allowed.
11:47<stillunknown>permitted == allowed
11:47<stillunknown>You're missing a not somewhere ;-)
11:47<skidd13>ups. permitted -> not allowed
11:48<Maedhros>they're ignored by design
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11:56<Wolf01>ok, again at work at brickland!
11:58<stillunknown>brickland is?
11:59<@peter1138>Wolf01's 32bpp toyland replacement
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12:01<stillunknown>But toyland is already perfect.
12:01<stillunknown>Perfectly broken that is ;-)
12:01<@peter1138>Wolf01's new 32bpp landscape
12:02<Wolf01>and houses and vehicles...
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12:09<TrueBrain>I wonder if he can get it finished, would be fun :)
12:13<Wolf01>eh, if i can finish the landscape i think i can finish the whole project
12:13<Wolf01>doesn't matter how much time
12:13<Wolf01>i take
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12:19<dihedral>TrueBrain: nearly got the openttdlib php class ready
12:20<dihedral>a class to query your server and get back stats, like the masterserver does
12:20<dihedral>i.e. for your own website
12:21[~]Rubidium is always going to like the C++ variant because that has a maintainability cost of about 0 :)
12:22[~]dihedral does not know c++ to be pleasing Rubidium in such a way :-P
12:23<dihedral>and as it was php before it was given to me, i am mainly doing a tidy up job
12:23<dihedral>besides it had already been removed from svn when i started working on it
12:24<dihedral>+ a c++ variant could be a little more tricky to include in webpages :-P
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12:26<Rubidium>dihedral: true, but the C++ has free maintainability; *if* you change the network game server querying protocol, the C++ variant only needs a svn up && make
12:26<TrueBrain>but the need for a PHP lib is understandable
12:26<TrueBrain>as not everyone can run a C++ application on his webhost ;)
12:26<Rubidium>true, very true
12:27<Rubidium>I've got nothing against the phplib, it's just that I like the C++ one because of maintainability
12:27<hylje>if people ran python on their webhosts you could have c++ libs for them
12:27<hylje>but no, you got php D:
12:28<Sacro>how do you stop nightlies from using My Documents?
12:28<hylje>you dont?
12:28<Sacro>well thats just stupid
12:29<+glx>Sacro: you get the next nightly :)
12:29<Sacro>and can i use 32bpp graphics now?
12:30<Sacro>and how do i add a load of grfs in1 go...
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12:36<stillunknown>sacro: yes and not sure if that's possible yet
12:39<@peter1138>1) yes, 2) edit yer config ;)
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12:58<Wolf01>omg... Ubuntu passed the Windows Genuine Advantage
13:01<Digitalfox>When using New terrain graphics " " i have this bug when building bridges " " Is this openttd bug or set bug coding? :\
13:02<Rubidium>looks like a newgrf bug
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13:03<Digitalfox>That screenshot is from build r10199..
13:04<Sacro>Wolf01: i passed WGA in ArchLinux months ago
13:04<Digitalfox>Rubidium: Should i post at Flyspray?
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13:04<@peter1138>test it in ttdpatch
13:04<@peter1138>if it still does it, bug the author :)
13:05<Rubidium>Digitalfox: a bug in the newgrf
13:05<Rubidium>but, test in ttdp to be sure
13:06<Digitalfox>I don't have a patch installation, so i will try to ask somebody :)
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13:16<Wolf01>is better to have corner tiles with the diagonal side cut or stepped?
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13:31<hylje>d'ya think fallout3 engine allows for trains?
13:33<|Jeroen|>when will the copy and past thingy be included in trunk ?
13:33<Smoovious>when people stop pestering about it? :P
13:33<|Jeroen|>but it's so sweet
13:35<Biff>what copy and paste thingy?
13:36<|Jeroen|>the one that is in miniin
13:37<|Jeroen|>real easy to re use crossings and stuff
13:37<Digitalfox>Well i just tested the new terrain grf with the last patch nightly and the bug is there also, so is a problem from the grf
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13:39<@Belugas>i kinda remember the copy/paste was not accepted because it makes the game to easy. But... maybe opinions have changed since then.
13:40<@Belugas>I will not use it myself, for the record...
13:40<@peter1138>me neither
13:40<eekee>I never make the same junction twice anyway, unless it's =X=
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13:41<@peter1138>was it actually copy & paste or just copy-this-bit-to-here?
13:42<@Belugas>iirc, the whole area is copied. can even be saved
13:42<@Belugas>and reapplied later
13:43<@Belugas>but i can be wrong
13:44<Wolf01> <- what do you think is better, the upper corner or the bottom corner?
13:44<Wolf01>hello Belugas :D
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13:44<@Belugas>hello Wolf01 :)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10201 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Replace Blitter::SetHorizontalLine with Blitter::DrawRect, as the former was only used by the rectangle drawing code anyway. This lets us draw rectangles in one go.
13:46<eekee>Wolf01: bottom corner
13:47<Nickman>yeah Wolf01, the bottem one
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13:51<Wolf01>uhm, i made a little mistake with studs, is better now:
13:51<Wolf01>(the upper one)
13:52<@Bjarni>ohh, a toyland that's actually a toyland :)
13:53<Smoovious>Toys-R-Us toys, or Helga's House of Pain toys?
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13:57[~]eekee doesn't want to /imagine/ a Helga's House of Pain grf XD;
13:57<hylje>naughty ttd
13:57<eekee>I have firends who are into that kinda stuff. Scares me, lol
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14:05<Smoovious>like... the gas ships, with the spherical tanks on it... a repaint would be perfect for them shipping silicone to breast implant factories... make them look like breasts with a nipple on top
14:07<eekee>ohhhhhhhhh D:
14:09<@peter1138>there are children here you know
14:09<@peter1138>like bjarni
14:10<Wolf01>and me
14:10<@Bjarni>breasts, boobs and similar words are too strong for Sacro, you know
14:11<hylje>its not like children have not seen nipples
14:11<hylje>chances are they have used them too
14:11<@Bjarni>even touched them?
14:11<@Bjarni>chances are that children has seen nipples in real life more recently than some people in here :P
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14:26<Wolf01>is somewhere a list of sprites with their number?
14:26<@peter1138>decode the trg files
14:26<@peter1138>in the big pcx with the sprites there are also numbers next to each sprite
14:26<Wolf01>that's what i'm trying to dodge ;)
14:27<TrueBrain>I am working on a website which lists them all
14:27<TrueBrain>only takes a bit of time
14:28<TrueBrain>there are 8060 images (including the grfs distributed with OpenTTD)
14:30<Nickman>how are things coming TrueBrain? :)
14:31<TrueBrain>little time
14:31<stillunknown>TrueBrain: exams?
14:32<TrueBrain>more the problem is my mood :)
14:32<TrueBrain>too much in love, too much already packing my shit to go on a holiday
14:33<stillunknown>I hope you get well soon.
14:33<TrueBrain>perfectly well, but tnx :)
14:33<stillunknown>love != well
14:34<@peter1138>get married
14:34<@peter1138>then you'll get over it ;)
14:34<eekee>Sacro: in the Mars conversion set extra, yeah
14:34<@peter1138>did george do that set by any chance?
14:35<eekee>not a clue
14:37<Wolf01>ok, if now i want to see how my graphics look ingame, what i must do?
14:37<TrueBrain>read docs/32bpp.txt most likely
14:37<@peter1138>read the documentation ;)
14:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10202 /branches/32bpp/: [32bpp] -Remove: removed the 32bpp branch, as it is outdated now (32bpp support is in trunk) Tnx to egladil and all others who worked on this for their hard work, it was priceless!
14:38<UnderBuilder>see you again 32bpp branch :)
14:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10203 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more moving things to blitter-layer: DrawLine
14:39<Wolf01>uhm. i don't have the 32bpp.txt file in the docs folder
14:39<TrueBrain>check SVN
14:39<Wolf01>why not include it in nightlies?
14:40<TrueBrain>because someone needs to update the script for it
14:40<TrueBrain>I guess that person is slightly lazy
14:40<Nickman>who is that person? ;)
14:42<TrueBrain>nuff said
14:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10204 /trunk/ -Fix: copy docs/32bpp.txt at 'make bundle'
14:44<Wolf01>uhm, i made: data\sprites\trgtr\number.png but seem to happen nothing
14:44<TrueBrain>a) did you start the 32bpp blitter?
14:45<TrueBrain>b) did you put in a real number for 'number'?
14:45<Wolf01>maybe i need to start the blitter
14:45<+glx>-b something
14:45<TrueBrain>-b 32bpp-simple
14:45<Wolf01>the number i put is the sprite id
14:45<+glx>looks right
14:45<TrueBrain>the sprite number as it comes in the grf I hope :)
14:46<TrueBrain>so < 1194 for toyland :)
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14:49<Wolf01>ok, now they appear
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14:53<+glx>Wolf01: you set offsets using pngcodec ?
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14:54<Wolf01>i only tried if they get loaded
14:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10205 /trunk/src/ (37 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: refactor returning of cost, so it can be more easily modified.
14:54<Wolf01>there's a binary of pngcodec?
14:55<+glx>I saw a zip on the forum
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14:57<@peter1138>beware, most image editors will remove the offsets
14:58<@peter1138>so if you make a change you'll need to reapply them
14:58<Nickman>so Wolf01, looking good or not those lego blocks? :D
14:58<Wolf01>eh, i'm trying to compile pngcodec, but it exits as soon i start it
14:59<Wolf01>and i need to put a "transparent" color for the sprites
14:59<Nickman>well, if you get it working, be sure to post some screens ;)
14:59<+glx>Wolf01: you type make?
14:59<+glx>try make.exe
15:00<@peter1138>Wolf01: it's png, it has an alpha layer, not a transparent colour
15:01<Wolf01>glx, doesn't work too
15:01<Wolf01>i'm making it with msys
15:02<+glx>hmm rename/remove make.bat and retry
15:03<Wolf01>no binaries now :/
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15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10206 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more moving things to blitter-layer: ScrollBuffer
15:09<Wolf01>mmh i can't set the transparency with graphics gale...
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15:15<Wolf01>looks cool also without offsets
15:15<Wolf01>at least the plain terrain
15:16<@peter1138>add transparency, select area to be transparent, cut it
15:16<@peter1138>though that depends on the editor, i suppose
15:17<Wolf01>yes is what i just done with photoshop
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15:21<stillunknown>Is it possible to make catenaries completely invisible?
15:22<ln->but then birds and insects will hit them.
15:22<AntB>electri-fried birdie....
15:23<Wolf01>what about invisible trees then?
15:23<AntB>floating birds nests, you just gotta hope they don't need to go
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15:24<AntB>if you get what I mean
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15:27<stillunknown>Wolf01: how?
15:27<Wolf01>there is a line to add in trees_cmd.cpp and a variable
15:28<Wolf01>and a patch option if you don't want to use my method to toggle the invisibility directly on the tranparency gui :P
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15:29<boekabart>Eddi|zuHause2: How do you translate 'during' to german?
15:29<boekabart>(or another native German speaker)
15:29<boekabart>'dauerend' ??
15:30<stillunknown>Wolf01: So the default game doesn't offer this option?
15:30<Progman>'w?hrend', but what is the whole context?
15:31<@peter1138>you could just diable elrails
15:31<boekabart>'the history of Firm X during five generations'
15:32<Progman>'Die Geschichte von Firm X ?ber f?nf Generationen'
15:32<boekabart>Progman: danke schoen!
15:32<Progman>whatever Firm X is ;)
15:33<boekabart>stimmt.. Krupp in this case
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15:35<SmatZ>funny, when OTTD crashes, music keep playing :)
15:35<SmatZ>but often, music doesn't even start - it starts just when I quit the game
15:36<SmatZ>I am using Linux, amd64
15:36<@peter1138>yeah, timidity sucks
15:36<@peter1138>it's probably waiting for sdl to release /dev/dsp or whatever
15:36<dihedral>hey guys
15:36<SmatZ>aha, I hoped there is a solution :(
15:36<dihedral>could i pop in a question?
15:37<dihedral>regarding the phplib i am working on
15:37<Rubidium>dihedral: didn't you already presented the question?
15:38<dihedral>sending PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO (2 if i am not mistaken) is not getting processed by 0.5.2 but is by trunk
15:38<SmatZ>Sir, may I have a question, Sir? :-)
15:38<dihedral>and you may call me dihedral
15:39<dihedral>i mean: there is not even a debug message saying the the ip sent in a query
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15:39<dihedral>any ideas anybody?
15:39<Rubidium>0.5.2 should process them too
15:39<dihedral>that's what i though
15:40<Rubidium>the network protocol hasn't changed since 0.5
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15:40<Rubidium>and 0.5 isn't very generous about debug-logging incoming packets
15:40<dihedral>do i have to send additional data, i.e. which client i want info for? as far as i understood the code, it send details regarding all players and clients
15:41<Wolf01> if there's somebody who can try them ingame, they need the offsets, i seem to have some problems
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15:43<@peter1138>well, set the offsets?
15:43<Wolf01>i cant :(
15:43<dihedral>Rubidium: when sending PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER every thing works as expected, on both
15:44<dihedral>0.5.2 and trunk
15:45<dihedral>just not when sending PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO
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15:46<Rubidium>yes, and the detail stuff seems to work on 0.5.2 (in game) too
15:46<dihedral>i know
15:46<dihedral>that is what i dont understand
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15:47<dihedral>unless it were tcp connections fetching that data in 0.5.2 but i doubt that were the case
15:48<Rubidium>nothing changed since 0.5, except a rewrite that made trunk more strict about the port the queries could be done on
15:48<dihedral>anyhow i can increase verbosity?
15:48<Rubidium>-d net=9
15:48<dihedral>oh - i though it only went up to 6
15:48<Rubidium>and that's all you're ever going to get without modifying the code
15:49<dihedral>well ... then i shall modify the code :-D
15:49<dihedral>thanks though :-)
15:49<Rubidium>trunk gives more info IIRC, but then again that isn't the one causing the trouble
15:51<@peter1138>Wolf01: nice ;)
15:51<Wolf01>screenshot? XD
15:58<Wolf01>ok, it look very good
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15:58<Rubidium>screenshot? XD
16:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10207 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the redundant player_money in favour of the money64, which is now renamed to player_money.
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16:01<Rubidium>looks less nasty that the original "background"
16:02<@Belugas>funny vision !
16:02<@Belugas>good job
16:03<@Belugas>if i may, maybe the slope tile could be a little darker, as the illusion of the slope is not really enforced.
16:03<@Belugas>personnal opinion
16:04<Wolf01>yes, when i'll finish all the slopes i'll add some light effects
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16:05<@Belugas>and i'm off for the day
16:05<@Belugas>bye bye
16:05<Rubidium>night Belugas
16:06<@Belugas>night all
16:06<Nickman>Wolf01, there seems to be something wrong with the "buttons" at the outer side of the tiles
16:06<Nickman>ther seem much more compressed then the inner ones
16:06<Nickman>creating some sort of grid
16:07<Nickman>or is this your intention?
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16:08<Wolf01>it is not my intention but i can't do it better, at least for now ;)
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16:10<Nickman>I think you need to move those outer a bit more to the center, about one pixel or so :D
16:11<stillunknown>Do arctic cities (in the valley) eventually refuse food as they grow?
16:12<Wolf01>i'll continue it tomorrow, now i must have some sleep, night everybody :)
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16:14<dihedral>Rubidium: quite odd, my running games dont respond, but a just compiled version did...
16:17<dihedral>i just restarted one of my games, and that now responds...
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16:19<Nickman>how come the "cntr + d" isn't available anymore?
16:19<dihedral>some sort of difference when a game was running for a few days and a just started server?
16:20<skidd13>XeryusTC: I updated the sprited for the US one way. Better?
16:20<XeryusTC>ill look later
16:20<XeryusTC>watching anime atm :P
16:21<Rubidium>dihedral: what os?
16:21<Rubidium>hmm, probably linux right?
16:21<stillunknown>Nickman: What should that do?
16:21<Nickman>isn't it suposed to double the zoom?
16:21<Nickman>or am i wrong? :D
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16:28<Rubidium>and from in-game it did work correctly on the "old" servers
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16:32<Eddi|zuHause2><Nickman> how come the "cntr + d" isn't available anymore? <- it conflicted with the new blitter code
16:32<dihedral>ingame nothing is odd
16:32<Nickman>ah, thought something like that Eddi|zuHause2 ;) thx
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>!openttd commit r10121
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>!openttd commit 10121
16:34<_42_>Commit by truelight :: r10121 /trunk/ (38 files in 6 dirs) (2007-06-12 20:24:12 UTC)
16:34<skidd13>can the default blitter be choosen by configure?
16:34<_42_>-Codechange: split renderer from rest of code; no longer any code directly accesses the video-buffer
16:34<_42_>-Add: added NULL blitter and renderer, which are always used for -vnull
16:34<_42_>-Add: dedicated driver doesn't blit nor render by default. Can be overruled by user. (-D -b 8bpp-optimized)
16:34<_42_>-Remove: removed CTRL+D from win32, which is incompatible with above
16:34<_42_>-Add: extended screenshot support for PNG and BMP
16:34<_42_>(...) (truncated)
16:35<Eddi|zuHause2>skidd13: make a "wrapper script" :)
16:35<Rubidium>export OPENTTD_ARGS="-b 32bpp" in your .bashrc
16:36<Eddi|zuHause2>i remember in DOS you could make a globle variable containing default command line options for certain programs
16:36<skidd13>export should work
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16:37<skidd13>!openttd commit HEAD
16:38<skidd13>!openttd revison
16:38<Eddi|zuHause2>without HEAD
16:38<Rubidium>skidd13: just join #openttd.notice and the latest revision is in the topic
16:43<stillunknown>An alias is a possibility as well.
16:44<Rubidium>oh, OPENTTD_ARGS only works with make run and make run-gdb by the way
16:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10208 /trunk/src/ (16 files): -Codechange: replace int32 with Money where appropriate.
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16:46<stillunknown>Rubidium: An alias is a possibility as well.
16:46<Rubidium>you already said that, however an alias doesn't really help with make run
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16:50<skidd13>If I use the alias I need to specify the configfile else my newgrf's are missing
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16:58<XeryusTC>skidd13: the new graphics are beter :)
16:58<skidd13>:) Hope they get coded
16:59<stillunknown>There are some practicality issues with 32bpp atm, but at least people can get started.
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17:02<SmatZ>Hello, I am trying to solve bug - is there anyone I could ask about some things?
17:02<SmatZ>especially track fences
17:05<dihedral>Rubidium: i think i may have a thought on why this is failing
17:05<dihedral>but i am not sure :-)
17:06<dihedral>could it be the client id?
17:06<dihedral>in r9719 this was updated from uint8 to uint16 for private messaging
17:06<stillunknown>SmatZ: most of the main devs are probably asleep
17:07<dihedral>forget it
17:07<dihedral>never said a thing
17:07<Rubidium>dihedral: then it shouldn't work in trunk either
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17:08<Rubidium>SmatZ: well, I'm still awake, but quite busy finishing some patches
17:08<dihedral>and then it should not work ingame either
17:08<Rubidium>but I guess I can answer a few questions in between
17:08<dihedral>though - if it works on a freshly started 0.5.2... i have not tried it with a trunk game running for a few days
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17:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10209 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy.h variables.h): -Fix/Codechange: forgot a few changes of int32 -> Money in the previous commit
17:11<skidd13>make after "./configure CC=gcc-4.2 CXX=gcc-4.2 CFLAGS=-O3 LDFLAGS=-O3" wont compile. If I run a bare configure before and start make, abort it and do the configure then it work
17:11<SmatZ>Rubidium: ok, I will ask tommorow, will try to solve it by myself :)
17:11<@peter1138>-O3 is not valid for LDFLAGS
17:12<@peter1138>is it?
17:12<skidd13>should be, but leaf it blank does not solve it.
17:13<skidd13>gcc-4.2 -I /home/skidd13/src/ottd_src/objs/lang /home/skidd13/src/ottd_src/src/endian_check.cpp -o endian_check
17:13<skidd13>/tmp/cc0Iv8rZ.o:(.eh_frame+0x11): undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0'
17:13<@peter1138>yes, gcc is not g++
17:14<Rubidium>compiling c++ with gcc fails in that way
17:14<skidd13>ups.. sure
17:15<skidd13>but why it does when I start a unadapted make before.
17:16<skidd13>"gcc-4.2 -O3 -DUNIX -DWITH_REV -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -W...." compiles successfull
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17:17<@peter1138>just tell it to use g++
17:17<skidd13>sure, but why it compiles right wth gcc.
17:18<@peter1138>you just pasted an error that shows it doesn't
17:20<+glx>skidd13: CXX=gcc-4.2 <-- try CXX=g++-4.2
17:20<skidd13>if you do just the "./configure CC=...", it works if you do "./configure" then make (Abort it after the first cpp starts to compile) then run "./configure CC=..." and after that make and it compiles too. Strange
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17:20<skidd13>glx: I know
17:22<skidd13>Never mind! I was irretated that It compiles with gcc too after I did it the way I described.
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17:25<SmatZ>I solved the problem - DrawCatenary() changes the offset while track is at a foundation
17:26<Rubidium>oh, you compiled the first object with g++ and then tried to link with gcc
17:26<skidd13>nope I compiled the first .o then break, and compiled and linked the rest with gcc and it works too.
17:27<skidd13>not by intention, just a coincidence. that I noticed.
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17:31<Rubidium>SmatZ: nice, so all issues you've found are solved now?
17:32<Rubidium>any idea whether the new sprite sorting algorithm uses way more CPU? Or does it still not really show up on profilings?
17:33<skidd13>whic one
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17:39<SmatZ>Rubidium: all I have encountered :)
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17:41<Rubidium>do the trees still need to be uncombined, or is that "issue" already solved by the other changes to the sprite sorter?
17:43<SmatZ>Rubidium: i will look at it
17:43<SmatZ>problem is that it is way slower :(
17:43<Rubidium>sorting combined the sprites is lower than uncombined sprites?
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17:46<SmatZ>I changed only the ViewportSortParentSprites() functions
17:47<SmatZ>I see...
17:47<SmatZ>the algorithm doesn't care if sprite is combined
17:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10210 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: make all money related variables 64 bits, so overflowing them should become a little harder.
18:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10211 /trunk/ (16 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add support for action 0F
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>i really hate that kind of commit message...
18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>because it tells you absolutely nothing if you do not know newgrf by heart
18:04<+glx>townname generators
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>see... "townname generator" is much more descriptive than "action 0F"
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>why not place that in the message, too?
18:05<+glx>too easy :D
18:08<SmatZ>Rubidium: the trees cannot be combined, it causes problems :(
18:09<Digitalfox>glx: Looking at the new code commit 10211 has, you had quite a work :|
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19:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10212 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix [FS#723]: money overflow bugs in many locations.
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21:49<Hendikins>Is it just me, or do serviced industries on maps that have very few industries *really* ramp the production up?
21:50[~]Hendikins is looking at a forest with 936 production near a coal mine with 540
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22:23<Phazorx>Hendikins: pruction increase is based on changing production of something once in a while
22:24<Phazorx>in case of smooth industries it is more leser changes and if it is off - less ore substantial ones
22:24<Phazorx>if you have 50 - chance of increasing production on any one of them is based on 1/50 chance of being selected 1st
22:24<Phazorx>if you have 5 that is 10 times larger
22:25<Phazorx>and on average each will have 10 time more chances to get affected
22:25<Phazorx>and the chance of positive affect is up to two times higher in case if it is being exploited with high rating
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22:40<mic>can anybody explain why all prototypes in ottd sources are written with "typedef"?
22:42<mic>typedef void f ( int a ) ;
22:50|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
22:53<Noldo>is that a real example
22:54<mic>crap :) i was wrong )
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22:56<mic>runned into lots procs definition and thought it was used for prototyping ))
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 19 00:00:14 2007