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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-19

---Logopened Tue Jun 19 00:00:14 2007
00:01|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
00:07<Phazorx>peter1138: ?
00:08<Phazorx>hash optimization seems to have great performance difference betwee number of engines in a train
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01:09<Phazorx>peter1138: i think it was my bad
01:09<Phazorx>still investigating
01:09<Phazorx>morning btw
01:09<@peter1138>"performance difference" doesn't mean much
01:10<Phazorx>peter1138: i doungraded chimeras to lev3
01:10<Phazorx>after that noticed that ttd started eating twice as much cpu
01:10<Phazorx>saved reloaded
01:10<Phazorx>and the effect was gone
01:11<Phazorx>since i dont feel like adding engines to 900 trains again - trying to use alt methods to figure out reason for spike
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02:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: celestar * r10213 /branches/gamebalance/ (163 files in 15 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r10100:10200 from trunk
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03:24<DJGummikuh>I just emerged openttd with timidity support (gentoo linux) because I wanted to try out the music... nevertheless, when I try to start the music, nothing happens..
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03:28<Gekkko>my PDA is sexeh
03:34<@peter1138>timidity sucks either way ;p
03:38<Gekkko>you're mocking my PDA!
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03:45<DJGummikuh>peter1138: is there any other way ot play the music?
03:45<DJGummikuh>and where is the music located anyways? I searched the game folder but found no music..
03:45<DJGummikuh>or is it wrapped inside a grf file?
03:46<@peter1138>it should be in the gm folder
03:46<@peter1138>next to data
03:47<DJGummikuh>I have data lang scenario scripts
03:47<stillunknown>Phazorx: performance difference how?
03:48<Haos>DJGummikuh: you need music files from original game
03:49|-|Haos changed nick to Caemyr
03:50<Phazorx>stillunknown: twice what it was before
03:50<Phazorx>but it seems to be somewhat random
03:50<Phazorx>i can not reproduce it
03:50<Phazorx>and save after reloading works fine
03:52<stillunknown>Why are you certain "this" is the cause?
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03:53<Phazorx>not certain
03:53<stillunknown>You have no savegame that reproduces it?
03:54<Phazorx>but actio sequence was - everything fine > park 900 trains > replace/add engines manually > unpark all trains
03:54<Phazorx>amount of "train tiles" is same
03:54<Phazorx>only thing changed is balanace between engines and cars
03:55<Phazorx>i have save game before downgrade
03:55<Phazorx>and after
03:55<stillunknown>You will need to find a simpler way to reproduce it, since this is rather vague.
03:55<Phazorx>however i only experienced problem after the change during same session
03:55<Phazorx>well i did similar things before - there was 3 major redesignns on that game
03:56<Phazorx>every time trains were parked and then released later
03:56<Phazorx>this time i also fiddled with engines/cars
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04:00<stillunknown>So you replaced a lot of first engines?
04:03<dihedral>my i bother someone and ask for a little help?
04:03<dihedral>regarding some fetched data with the phplib
04:03<valhallasw>don't ask to ask, ask ;)
04:03<stillunknown>Don't ask to ask, just ask.
04:04<dihedral>the file query.php is using openttd.class.php to query my Fair Play #3 server
04:04<Phazorx>stillunknown: 1sr engines were autoreplaces
04:04<dihedral>some information is slightly offset !!
04:04<Phazorx>i added missing ones
04:05<Gekkko>I want to make Australian Tram grfs
04:06<dihedral>details: company_value for "risto Transport" is already incorrect
04:06<dihedral>in game data is slightly heigher
04:06<DJGummikuh>dihedral: not realtime I assume
04:07<dihedral>udp connection is established as soon as you open query.php
04:07<dihedral>ie 2
04:07<dihedral>real time data :-)
04:08<dihedral>and if you look at "performance_history" in the output, that should be a 477
04:09<dihedral>feel free to open up 0.5.2 and check the data fetched in game for
04:12<dihedral>but thanks for the help
04:12<dihedral>at least to some extent
04:14<dihedral>problem was in RecvUint64
04:14<dihedral>as in $res += ord($packet['data'][$packet['pos']++]) << 64; does not belong there :-)
04:15<@peter1138>RecvUint64: i = RecvUint32; i |= RecvUint32 << 32;
04:16<mic>hello again :) i made a very use small and useful patch for openttd
04:16<mic>it is called "build *under* slopes"
04:16<DJGummikuh>mic: ?
04:17<dihedral>i thought slopes went the other way around
04:17<mic>it let remove or create built-on-slope cells then it is necessary
04:18<mic>without need to delete the cell itself
04:18<hylje>mic: screenshots please
04:19<DJGummikuh>mic: cool
04:19<DJGummikuh>so you can do landwork with roads and trainstuff on it?
04:20<mic>a little less :) you can create/modify/delete builT-on-slope cell if the cell allows
04:20<mic>have you encountered situations then somebody used sloped rails and you can not build tunnel under him?
04:21<DJGummikuh>mic: a dozen times
04:21<DJGummikuh>if that patch solves it thats cool :)
04:21<mic>(or you have dig down more or buiild bridge)
04:21<mic>this patch simply lets you remove the slope
04:22<stillunknown>But what happens to the stuff on top of that slope?
04:22<mic>have you encountered situation then u need to raise/lower 1 cell inside city?
04:22<XeryusTC>mic: so you can terraform under tiles that have foundations on them?
04:22<mic>or want tunnel inside city for example
04:23<DJGummikuh>XeryusTC: sounds that way
04:23<mic>with this patch you need only 1 buildings instead of many buildings to destroy
04:23<DJGummikuh>mic: two I woudl assume
04:23<mic>right right )
04:23<DJGummikuh>you need the tunnel and the slope downards to it
04:23<mic>XeryusTC: you can create/modify/delete foundation, without changing cell itself, if cell allows it :)
04:24<hylje>ie. no floating cells
04:24<mic>DJGummikuh: right :)
04:24<XeryusTC>mic: ah, that was implemented before, but DV deleted it because it didnt work half of the time IIRC
04:27<mic>i tested it, work correct, i hope always :)
04:27<@peter1138>ahh, like ttdpatch's "autoslope"
04:27<@peter1138>screenshots? :D
04:28<mic>i will try to make one )
04:28<@peter1138>^S isn't that hard ;)
04:28<dihedral>it works :-D
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04:41<dihedral>is TrueBrain or Rubidium around?
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04:57<mic>2x2 screenshots
04:59<hylje>so you can push industries to foundations too?
04:59<hylje>thats way great
04:59<Thomas[NL]>what rockground graphic is that?
05:00<Thomas[NL]>oh its the original :P
05:01<mic>can push down even transmitters )
05:01<mic>but only 1 cell, for foundation
05:02<mic>useful in cities, you don't need to buldorize many building if you need to lower land somethere
05:02<XeryusTC>ah yes, the old stuff that DV removed
05:02<XeryusTC>very usefull feature :)
05:05<Thomas[NL]>is it similar to ttdpatch's AutoSlope?
05:05<Eddi|zuHause3>funny that the two first pictures are "backwards" ;)
05:05<XeryusTC>Thomas[NL]: seems not
05:06<XeryusTC>it just allows you to make/remove foundations by terrafomring
05:06<Thomas[NL]>I never played ttdpatch with autoslope, how is it different?
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05:07<XeryusTC>autoslope allows you to terraform everywhere and industries etc just move along with the hills IIRC
05:07<XeryusTC>oh, it's the same :P
05:08<XeryusTC>confused with some other patch feature
05:08<Eddi|zuHause3>you're not supposed to actually move existing buildings
05:08<Thomas[NL]>any known bugs mic?
05:09<@peter1138>assuming it doesn't let you actually change the height of what's on the tile, i need a patch ;)
05:11<mic>have not tested a lot but i fixed all that i have seen (and i have seen a lot:)
05:11<mic>i does not change height ) but it was changing in first edit )
05:11<mic>could flood towns and industries
05:12<mic>if you lower factory with drag-lower it will usually keep 3 peeks on which factory will stand
05:13<mic>if factory is 3 blocks of 2x2
05:13<hylje>can all foundations be undoed?
05:13<mic>no of course )
05:13<mic>undoed - lowered?
05:13<hylje>i mean changed back
05:13<mic>yes :)
05:14<mic>can raise it all ban if you need
05:14<@peter1138>including the current terraforming bugs? heh
05:14<mic>ban->all :)
05:14<@peter1138>(you can terraform up but not down again in some places)
05:14<mic>dont know how i typed this )
05:14<mic>is it rails or not?
05:15<mic>(shit, "ban->back":)
05:15<mic>it was bugs with rails or with not rails?
05:15<@peter1138>yes, rails
05:15<@peter1138>on half/steep slopes
05:18<mic>i tested rails toom hope no bugs left :)
05:19<mic>this is tunnel in city
05:19<@peter1138>may i see the patch?
05:20<mic>one moment )
05:20<@peter1138>shame it's against 0.5.2
05:20<@peter1138>but never mind
05:20<mic>i should take... nightly?
05:21<hylje>latest trunk
05:21<@peter1138>latest trunk is best
05:22<XeryusTC>there's a huge difference between .5.2 and latest trunk IIRC
05:23<Phazorx>cpu 95%
05:23<hylje>your download is stuck?
05:23<Eddi|zuHause3>better than 105% :)
05:23<@peter1138>mic: make the patch anyway? :)
05:25<oxygene_> (you can terraform up but not down again in some places) <-- do you mean ?
05:25[~]Phazorx wants more optimization
05:25<@peter1138>oxygene_: yes
05:25<oxygene_>what about just removing "unsafe slopes" code?
05:25<@peter1138>no way :)
05:26<oxygene_>i did it locally and couldn't find anything "unsafe"
05:26<oxygene_>what's the point of it?
05:26<@peter1138>there's always something
05:26<@peter1138>usually some untested combination goes wrong
05:27<Rubidium>peter1138: that code just behaves wrong (it doesn't properly test for unsafeness)
05:27<oxygene_>i tried a lot of combinations =)
05:27<@peter1138>Rubidium: i know, but it does stop some illegal combinations, iirc
05:27<oxygene_>i'd like to see one illegal combination if you can think of one
05:28<Rubidium>I think Tron wanted that the slope of the foundation didn't change, it only wasn't implemented properly
05:28<mic>here the patch goes
05:29<@peter1138>yick, nasty downloaders
05:29<XeryusTC>oh, cyrilic
05:29<mic>only 5 secs delay to download )
05:30<Rubidium>yes, and no way to look at the patch in the browser; need to start an external editor
05:30<mic>it is all forced mime-types )
05:30<@peter1138>looks small though
05:31<@peter1138>+ /* bug: tunnel's exit can destroy rail on slope,
05:31<@peter1138>+ if rail has the same direction as the slope */
05:31<Eddi|zuHause3>you could just have uploaded it to, probably
05:31<mic>too lazy :)
05:31<mic>simply to type here :)
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05:32<@peter1138>oxygene_: yup, removing the unsafe bit allows you to terraform into tunnels
05:33<oxygene_>as far as i remember there was extra code to check for tunnels (?)
05:33<Eddi|zuHause3>"there is no tunnel" :p
05:33<Phazorx>stillunknown: is it possible to apply your patch on top of curent trunk
05:35<mic>there bugs with road destruction if it is half-road and it is build on non-steep slope with 1 raised corner. but this is not mine it already exists :)
05:36<@peter1138>half-roads are destroyed all over the place :o
05:36<mic>that is right that i am about )
05:36<@peter1138>i was confirming it, it's normal, heh
05:36<scia>op some i
05:37<mic>....with 2 bugs this patch was actually 10 lines :-))
05:38<@peter1138>heh, typical :)
05:39<scia>hmm, how did i type that...
05:40<scia>ah, a paste
05:40<mic>submit bug with tunnel?
05:42<@peter1138>if ( !IsNewCrappyRail )
05:42<@peter1138>nice variable names :p
05:51<mic>it is good that i removed some obsences from comments :)
05:53<SpComb>`rgrep fuck /usr/src/kernel-2.4.27-2/ | wc -l` or such
05:53<SpComb>kernel-headers has two
05:54<mic>only two :(
05:54<mic>dont mind )
05:54<stillunknown>Phazorx: No, and atm i don't see a need to update it.
05:55<Phazorx>stillunknown: i have 900 trains and oven temperature CPU on contrary :)
05:57<@peter1138>is that normal or after you made it "slow down" ?
05:57<stillunknown>Phazorx: provide the savegame, i'll profile it today or tomorrow, then i'll decide.
05:57<Phazorx>peter1138: i added more trains and CPU usage did not grew linearly
05:58<stillunknown>Profiling will reveal the bottleneck.
05:58<Phazorx>and i can not tell anything about normal anymore i tihnk i was mistaken in my calculation since i am trying diff builds and savegame but i dont see same picture as i saw a week ago
05:59<stillunknown>Just provide the savegame, a second opinion is never bad.
06:00<Phazorx>stillunknown: i was trying to make a case on situation vs load study
06:00<Phazorx>aint making sense no more
06:01<stillunknown>Do i have to hit you twice before you'll give me the savegame ;-)
06:01<scia>13:00:07 < Phazorx> aint making sense no more <-- so it makes sense?
06:01<Phazorx>i am tidiing it up hang on :)
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06:06<TheJosh>hey everyone
06:07<Phazorx> testcase.sav
06:07<oxygene_>could you point me to a website which describes how to change a sprite?
06:07<TheJosh>I would like to annouce the release of my latest patch, "Loading Indicators"
06:07<hylje>oxygene_: not shorthand, but you need grfcodec and an image editor
06:07<oxygene_>i just need a starting point to google for ;)
06:08<Phazorx>stillunknown: that is the safe for ya
06:08<oxygene_>but grfcodec sounds like one
06:08<stillunknown>Phazorx: url doesn't work
06:08<hylje>stillunknown: theres a space
06:08<mic>peter1138: found some bugs :) will fix.
06:08<mic>peter1138: that me do further with this patch?
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06:12<Caemyr>mic: i love this patch already
06:12<Caemyr>it overcomes some of the most pissing things in TTDLX
06:13<Caemyr>especially the second part:P
06:13<Caemyr>i would like to see it in trunk:)
06:13<mic>thanks :)
06:16<Biff>TheJosh: very nice
06:16<TheJosh>Biff: thanks
06:16<Maedhros>looks like a pretty nice and clean patch
06:16<Maedhros>i'll have to look over it again when less hungover though ;)
06:17<TrueBrain>morning all!
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06:19<TheJosh>TrueBrain: morning
06:20<TheJosh>Maedhros: after proucing a few crap patches and getting constantly flaming for style, i made sure this one was as perfect as I could before release
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06:40<mic>strange, AI is building such shit that any player can't )
06:41<TheJosh>should be artificial unintellegence
06:41<Eddi|zuHause3>i have seen screenshots of players titled like "worse than AI"
06:43<Eddi|zuHause3>"make something idiot proof and someone finds a better idiot"
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06:46<Phazorx>idiot proof, as well as warning labels are counteragents to evolution IMO
06:47<mic>look that stupid AI just built )
06:47<Thomas[NL]>my nightly uses the .cfg file of my standard installation where it first used the one in his own bin-directory, is this intended?
06:48<Phazorx>btw, with new .grf configuration, is there a wa to specifyroot for /data ?
06:48<Phazorx>cuz on windows with no symlinks it is a hassle to update grfs
06:50<hylje>Phazorx: xp supports directory symlinks
06:50<Thomas[NL]>first it used /home/***/openttd/bin/openttd.cfg (where I checkout and make latest svn) now it uses /home/***/.openttd./openttd.cfg
06:50<Phazorx>hylje: eh? how ?
06:51<Phazorx>my ln -s doesnt work ehre
06:51<hylje>vista supports proper symlinks
06:51<hylje>junctions. look em up
06:51<Phazorx>actualy i dont think i ever tryed it
06:51<Phazorx>and i do have w32 unixtools
06:52[~]dihedral is happy
06:52<hylje>for the record, FAT supported symlinks but MS decided to use the symlink allocated fields for long filenames
06:52<Phazorx>C:\GAMES\OTTD>ln -s data ../
06:52<Phazorx>ln: symbolic links are not supported on this system
06:54<dihedral>just still need to add the newgrf data :-)
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06:56<mic>is here a easy way to make screenshot of some point on dedicated server?
06:56<mic>some automated way
06:57<Phazorx>after reading that i dont think it is safe to use
06:57<ln->Phazorx: don't blame me for that.
06:57<Phazorx>so back to my question
06:57<Phazorx>is there a way to specify root of newgrf section somehow?
06:57<Phazorx>ln-: i;m nt to blame, i'm to figure out what can be done to make it back liek ti was ebfore
06:58<Phazorx>and not havign to maintaoin 20 copies of 30mbs of grfs
06:58<Eddi|zuHause3>mic: in 0.5.2, yes, nightly needs special blitter on startup
06:58<Eddi|zuHause3>you can use "scrollto" and "screenshot" commands, i believe
06:58<Eddi|zuHause3>Brianetta used that on his server for a "live webcam"
06:59<Phazorx>really ?
06:59<Phazorx>where did that go then
07:00<Phazorx>hylje: on that note, kidna sat to see vista, seeing the light in 2005 catching up with "ln -s" available in normal OSes for more than 20 years
07:00<Phazorx>make that 30 years actualy
07:01<hylje>its not like MS has boasted on technical superiority for the last 10 years
07:01<hylje>w95 was somewhat like it, though
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07:02<mic>if there is live web can for server, we could write javascript webclient then :)
07:06<dihedral>sounds a little nasty
07:06<dihedral>an applet would probably we a lot better
07:07<dihedral>anyway - the openttdlib only does udp querying
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07:09<Eddi|zuHause3>mic: it's not really "live", he took a screenshot like every 7 minutes
07:09<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm sure there's a thread about it in the forum
07:10<dihedral>there is a thread about a java client, yes
07:11<TrueBrain>too CPU intense to do it much more often than the 7 minutes :)
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07:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10214 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_base.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one in draw-rect-color-remapping (peter1138)
07:19<Phazorx>will it be hard to make a patch for replacing "." with config param for referencing data and save folders?
07:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10215 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_simple.cpp: -Fix r10214: forgot 2 cases of the same mistake
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07:25<Rubidium>Phazorx: probably not, but why would that be needed?
07:26<Phazorx>Rubidium: for windows users with no ln -s capability it would be very nice
07:27<Phazorx>untill recent builds i had one copy of grfs
07:27<Phazorx>with hardlinked config patrhs
07:27<Phazorx>now it doesnt take them and i have to make and maintain as many copies as i have builds
07:28<Rubidium>Phazorx: just dump the newgrfs in docs&settings/username/Documents/OpenTTD
07:28<Rubidium>then all builds should just get the newgrfs from there
07:28<hylje>omg! homedir!
07:28<Thomas[NL]>hmm some strange thing: when I launch openttd via terminal it uses the user's home directory openttd.cfg, if i doubleclick the executable it crashes but seems to use the resolution in the current directories openttd.cfg
07:29<hylje>Rubidium: so if i have my newgrfs and configs in ~/openttd/, recent build will see there first?
07:29<Phazorx>Rubidium: is that path documented anywhere ?
07:29<Rubidium>only when there isn't a openttd.cfg in your current working directory (will look for that also in ~/.openttd/
07:30<Thomas[NL]>stupid me, I used bin/openttd in the terminal and it looked for a cfg in bin ...
07:31<Rubidium>Phazorx: not yet
07:31<Thomas[NL]>eh in openttd NOT in bin i mean :)
07:32<Phazorx>Rubidium: are you sure that is the correct path?
07:33<Rubidium>start openttd with -d misc=4 as parameter and it'll show you a list on the console with the search paths it uses
07:33<hylje>Rubidium: quite many paths there
07:33<Rubidium>Phazorx: how did you compile?
07:34<Phazorx>Rubidium: mingw
07:35<Rubidium>ah, then you need to reconfigure manually, because the "old" setting for the personal dir was "" (don't use it), so it doesn't use the home dir. If you configure manually it will make you have a home directory.
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07:39<Phazorx>i tihnk it assumes ming's homedit :/
07:40<Rubidium>just look at the output when you start openttd with -d misc=4 as parameter
07:40<Phazorx>yup thanks
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07:48[~]peter1138 has 4 search paths? :o
07:49<Phazorx>noworki Rubidium :/
07:49<Phazorx>i see the proper path now
07:49<Phazorx>in -d 4 misc
07:50<Phazorx>and tried using it as root or ~/data
07:50<Phazorx>grfs arent loaded
07:51<XeryusTC>Phazorx: grfs dont need data/ anymore
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07:51<Phazorx>i dont know what they need since there are not docs so i decided it worth a try
07:53<Phazorx>hmm... my bad... workes now, but not quite sure whatehelped
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08:01<Biff>"cant clear this area, not enough money"
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08:02<Biff>,%2029th%20Jun%202035.png isnt there something wrong here?
08:04<mic>maybe you wrapped to negative?
08:04<mic>and how you want to clean in paused game?
08:05<Biff>i just took pause after the message came
08:05<Biff>i saw in the svn log that the data type of money has been changed, so i guess its related
08:12<Thomas[NL]>did you load a old save game in newest trunk? maybe that won't work
08:17<stillunknown>Phazorx: I did a test, collision checking is not the biggest problem.
08:18<Thomas[NL]>hmm, seems not the problem Biff, i used the money cheat to get about the same amount you got in that screen and I get the same error
08:20<Phazorx>stillunknown: what is ?
08:20<blathijs>Biff: Thomas[NL]: If it's reproducible, please post instructions and a savegame to flyspray
08:23<stillunknown>Phazorx: TrainController, LocoHandler, HashUpdates
08:23<stillunknown>Then comes collision enum
08:23<stillunknown>Going to try what happens if i increase the hashmap size.
08:24<Phazorx>i tihnk peter1138 tried
08:25<mic>depot.... that type of cell is it?
08:25<@peter1138>depends on the depot type
08:25<stillunknown>Phazorx: I think it's safe to say that there are no more easy improvements left.
08:25<@peter1138>rail depot is on a rail tile, etc
08:26<Phazorx>stillunknown: sad
08:26<mic>ok thanks
08:26<Phazorx>i gues that save has too many tracks?
08:26<stillunknown>Phazorx: It's probably the speed and the amount of trains, but this game should be playable.
08:27<Phazorx>stillunknown: well since i downgraded trains i can not say that vehicle speed has any relevance
08:27<Phazorx>and if you remember EvsL
08:28<Phazorx>which is twice as wide but half as long
08:28<Biff>blathijs: ok
08:28<Phazorx>with same amount fo trains it performs about 5 times better
08:28<@peter1138>i wonder what effect going back to the old hash table would have?
08:28<Phazorx>peter1138: slideshow?
08:29<Phazorx>one thing which i didnt get was nonelinearity in performance vs amount of trains
08:29<Phazorx>after icnreasing amount by 40% loaded doubled
08:29<stillunknown>I would like to note that an efficient integration of the hash code could improve performance.
08:30<Biff>savegame here, i cant post on flyspray later but no time now
08:30<SmatZ>stillunknown: hash algoritmh is rather good now, all entries have very similiar number of matching vehicles
08:32<stillunknown>Going from 7 to 8 bits does improve it a bit.
08:33<stillunknown>But the TrainLocoHandler and TrainController are the problem now.
08:33<@peter1138>yes, vehicles in each bucket
08:36<stillunknown>Possible optimizations lie in only checking certain things when entering a new tile.
08:38<@peter1138>train controller is... hmm
08:38<@peter1138>messy? :)
08:40<stillunknown>There's room for improvement.
08:40<stillunknown>Like checking for stations, waypoints, etc.
08:40<stillunknown>That can be done on entering new tile.
08:40<stillunknown>I think.
08:48<Thomas[NL]>wow, what harbour/station set is this? (pic comes from ISA's screenshots)
08:53<SmatZ>it is possible to cause desync of clients that connected after you have connected
08:54<SmatZ>because trains crash the first train it finds
08:54<Rubidium>technically yes
08:54<SmatZ>but client that connect after you have
08:54<SmatZ>may have different order of vehicles in the hash table
08:54<SmatZ>yes, I verified it...
08:55<SmatZ>you have the order in what order vehicles entered the tile, but anyone connecting after you have order based on vehicle ID
08:56<SmatZ>anyway, train crashing only the first train it encounters, it is probably not correct
08:57<mic>does city builds buildings on steep slope?
08:59<Rubidium>hmm, SmatZ actually, only the new clients could desync; the old clients are still in sync with the server
08:59<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes ...
09:00<SmatZ>Rubidium: only those who connected after you have connected and prepared the bad situation
09:00<SmatZ>it is not as harmful...
09:00<Rubidium>so it would be solved if the complete cache is sent over the network
09:00<SmatZ>well, this is not a nice thing to do :)
09:00<Rubidium>but then again, what's the chance that a train collides with two other trains?
09:00<Rubidium>at the same tile
09:01<Rubidium>same position even
09:01<SmatZ>you have to do that intentionally
09:01<Rubidium>would (I think) mean that the trains are already crashed
09:02<SmatZ>trains 1 and 2 are near, but diff > 6
09:02<SmatZ>when train 3 arrives, it crashes only train 1
09:03<SmatZ>but ... when you were on server before
09:03<SmatZ>and train 2 arrived earlier to that tile
09:03<SmatZ>then train 3 would crash train 2
09:03<SmatZ>because it is first in the hash table
09:04<SmatZ>hmm no :)
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09:06<SmatZ>Rubidium: when loaded, it crashes train 2, because it has higher vehicleID, and so it is first in the list ... but when playing and train 2 arrived first, it will crash train 1, because it will be first in the list
09:06<SmatZ>vehicles are added in the front of the list
09:07<SmatZ>this may cause desync...
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09:10<Digitalfox_>Hi everybody :)
09:11<Digitalfox_>I've been playing with newindustries in patch, and i must say that they look great and add a lot of new gaming, but nothing like openttd.. Just for changing the starting date of a game i have to search the faq to know how to change.. :\
09:12<Digitalfox_>Making the resolution work ok in my TFT is another problem..
09:13<Digitalfox_>Thankgod for openttd, and all the easy ways of making stugg work
09:15<Digitalfox_>But i now have a question, when openttd supports newindustries, all planes, road vehicles, ships and trains must be loaded with set's to have those cargo's or the default vehicles that came with openttd will be able to support this new cargo's?
09:16<Digitalfox_>Like having some kind of reffit..
09:19<@peter1138>yes, new vehicle sets must be loaded too
09:19<@peter1138>you could simply have a set that only set the cargo classes
09:21<@peter1138>SmatZ: i always wondered about that. of course it affected the old hash too, so i'm not too concerned currently ;)
09:30<SmatZ>peter1138: yes, I also found this problem while modifying the hash code :) but the solution wouldn't be in a hash table, but more like - if a vehicle to crash is found, then search all vehicles in the hash chain and crash them all, sorted by vehicle ID
09:30<SmatZ>it would be consistent and not causing any slowdowns
09:31<@peter1138>i had a patch to save the hash table somewhere
09:31<SmatZ>*crash them all = crash all of those the new vehicle would crash
09:31<@peter1138>fairly simple
09:31<SmatZ>I think better idea is to let users have their own hash tabel size
09:32<SmatZ>sending the hash table would need all to have the same hash table size...
09:32<SmatZ>and consuming a lot of bandwidth
09:32<@peter1138>not a lot
09:32<SmatZ>like 100s of kbytes, even mbytes...
09:33<@peter1138>not... really...
09:33<@peter1138>assuming the current size and a large game, less than 64KB
09:34<SmatZ>and taking care at byte order ... I think the idea of determined order of crashing is more suitable :)
09:34<@peter1138>save game already takes care of byte order
09:35<@peter1138>one thing that would be good is a network command "reset temp data" or something that the server sends when a client joins
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09:35<@peter1138>would help yapf a bit
09:35<SmatZ>I don't know yapf code :(
09:36<SmatZ>does it depend on the order of vehicles in the hash table, too?
09:36<@peter1138>ah, it has an internal cache
09:36<Rubidium>yapf's caches are invalidated at the beginning of each game tick
09:39<SmatZ>If I had to make a patch, I would use some determined order of crashing - it would solve the problem that only one train is crashed, when there should me crashed more at once
09:39<SmatZ>also, saving hash table into savefile would make it a bit bigger and incompatible with any future hash table changes ... also, clients couldn't have different hash table size than the server etc.
09:39<SmatZ>and if crashing the trains is the only reason to save the hash table...
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09:40<@peter1138>15:36 < SmatZ> If I had to make a patch,
09:40<@peter1138>sounds like you volunteered? ;)
09:41<SmatZ>I don't know English very well :)
09:41<SmatZ>maybe I could try
09:41<SmatZ>there won't be much coding about it
09:50<Touqen>It appears you know English well enough. Most native english speakers still can't grasp good vs. well and when each is supposed to be used.
09:53<oxygene_>good, you might be right
09:55<SmatZ>Touqen: thank you :)
09:57<stillunknown>train_cmd.cpp line 3273, does anyone know what the purpose of that loop is?
10:00|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:00<Rubidium>stillunknown: so the train moves multiple "steps"; it always moves per 1 game unit, but fast trains need to move multiple game units in a single tick
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10:03<SmatZ>Vehicle *coll = GetFirstVehicleInChain(realcoll);
10:03<SmatZ>if (IsFrontEngine(coll)) SetVehicleCrashed(coll);
10:04<SmatZ>coult coll not be a front engine?
10:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10216 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
10:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: palette animation always redid all palette entries, where in fact only a few indexes were needed
10:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: allow blitters to handle palette animation internally or even disable it; 8bpp uses video-backend for palette animation
10:05<Rubidium>SmatZ: in depots those lists of "free" wagons
10:05<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes ... this piece of code is from the train collision checker
10:06<Rubidium>the wagons in a depot are in the hash table too IIRC
10:06<stillunknown>SmatZ: trains have to collide with something, you don't teleport into another train
10:06|-|[BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@] has joined #openttd
10:06<Touqen>Or maybe you do.
10:06<Touqen>Haven't you seen The Fly?
10:09<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes, this is already solved by v->u.rail.track != TRACK_BIT_DEPOT ...
10:09<SmatZ>probably when a crashed vehicle disappears
10:09<SmatZ>there is not a train
10:11<SmatZ>stillunknown: I dont understand what you are talking about :(
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10:15<mic>...about some details with that patch
10:15<mic>is it ok to dig under channels?
10:15<stillunknown>SmatZ: There is always one front engine that crashes into another train, that's enough.
10:15<mic>i.e. channels-on-slopes?
10:16<mic>should channels-on-slopes be allowed? :)
10:17<Eddi|zuHause3>isn't it?
10:17<Noldo>you need a lock for it
10:18<hylje>channels with foundations
10:18<Noldo>sound a bit too heavy
10:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10217 /trunk/src/video/ ( sdl_v.cpp win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10216: forgot to declare 'blitter' in win32 and cocoa driver (tnx glx)
10:20<mic>channel is like an any other construction ) looks like sloped channels should be allowed too... hm )
10:20|-|Tino|R152 [Tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
10:21<@peter1138>oh, canals?
10:21<@Belugas>no. Chanel
10:22<SmatZ>nice, it seems to work even without evaluating crashes in a given order
10:22<SmatZ>i don't know the network code :(
10:24<mic>and i dont understand why canals are destroyed during terraformingwhile everything else except purchased land is not
10:24<Rubidium>SmatZ: the main question is whether Random is called when actually crashing the train, or whether random is called sometime later
10:24<Rubidium>on the vehicle tick for example
10:24<SmatZ>Rubidium: it happens in one tick
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10:25<SmatZ>and it doesn't matter if crashes 1->3->2 or 2->3->1 (vehicleID)
10:25<SmatZ> SetVehicleCrashed() doesn't call any network code, so it seems to work
10:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10218 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix r10216: more compile errors
10:27<Rubidium>SmatZ: rather that it doesn't call random or uses anything of the game state except the fact that it crashed, so it works
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10:33<pyrotechnick>OPENTTD IS AWESOME
10:33<pyrotechnick>i cant believe it has its own irc lol
10:33|-|DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@] has joined #openttd
10:33<pyrotechnick>no seriously are any developers in here?
10:34<Rubidium>nah :D
10:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10219 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#882,FS#890]: land under foundations was terraform when it shouldn't be terraformed.
10:35<TrueBrain>they are really annoying and stuff, never come here, and always bitch about things
10:36<pyrotechnick>as if
10:36<pyrotechnick>they are probably busy being awesome somewhere else if thats true
10:36<pyrotechnick>so is it like fully reimplemented in C?
10:36<TrueBrain>C++ even
10:36[~]Maedhros is *always* busy being awesome :p
10:36<pyrotechnick>what was it written in to start with
10:36<TrueBrain>Maedhros: true true :)
10:36<pyrotechnick>dude u typed that fast
10:37<pyrotechnick>i thort u had like a script or something
10:37<TrueBrain>pyrotechnick: try hitting enter after you reread your line ;)
10:37<TrueBrain>(not before ;))
10:37|-|[BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:37<pyrotechnick>it was all part of my plan
10:38<TrueBrain>but anyway, welcome to our channel
10:38<stillunknown>Maybe trains can be made more event driven (aka OnEnterNewTile), or is this impossible?
10:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10220 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp video/ video/win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10216: even more fuck-ups for non-SDL video backends
10:40<TrueBrain>oh, forgot to say: tnx glx for finding the bugs :)
10:43<@peter1138>a windows server just random did some updates and rebooted
10:43<SmatZ>here it comes -> , testfile ->
10:43<@peter1138>they're all set to manual only
10:44<hylje>peter1138: in that case, enjoy your AIDS
10:45<oxygene_>r10219 fixed the bug by not alowing to change the foundations?
10:45<helb>Hi, is there any way to disable using ~/.openttd/ for saving config file? I want to keep each version with its own openttd.cfg. I know that one way is edit it in source code, but i hope its not the only...
10:46<@peter1138>SmatZ: looks good
10:46<TrueBrain>./configure --without-personal-path I believe
10:46<TrueBrain>(see ./configure --help)
10:46<helb>Oh, thanks. :)
10:46<SmatZ>peter1138: thanks, I did not too many changes, rather moved the code
10:46<Rubidium>it's --without-personal-dir by the way or --personal-dir=""
10:47<SmatZ>should I open a bug at flyspray?
10:47<Sacro>TrueBrain: afaik it does it like that by default
10:47<TrueBrain>Sacro: no
10:47<Sacro>hmmm :\
10:47<TrueBrain>Rubidium: dir.. path... all the same ;)
10:47<@peter1138>SmatZ: change "if (tcc.num != 0) {" to "if (tcc.num == 0) return;" and you can save having to indent the last bit
10:48<helb>It seems to be ok, thanks. :)
10:50<SmatZ>peter1138: ok, is updated
10:52<@peter1138>hmm, the last bit in findtraincollideenum looks odd
10:53<SmatZ>+ if (IsFrontEngine(coll)) SetVehicleCrashed(coll); ?
10:53<@peter1138>oh now
10:53<@peter1138>forgot that did the whole chain
10:53<SmatZ>I am not sure, maybe it could be moved inside the if ( ! crashed )
10:54<@peter1138>yes i think so
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10:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10221 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: the one way sprites weren't drawn in the correct order, so they could remove the tramtrack in some cases.
10:57<SmatZ>peter1138: ok, is an updated version
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11:02<@peter1138>he's a patch machine
11:03<SmatZ>yes :)
11:04<hylje>good for us
11:04<SmatZ>if you are talking about rubidium :)
11:06<@Belugas>speaking of patches, this one is a nice one :
11:06<skidd13>yeah, but only few comments :(
11:07<@Belugas>true, it needs more comments
11:07<@Belugas>on the patch itself, i mean...
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11:13<mic>excuse me, may i ask a question?
11:14<hylje>ask, dont ask to ask
11:14<mic>if i have a TileIndex of some station tile, how can i get where it is directed?
11:14|-|Ammler [] has joined #openttd
11:14<mic>...where the exit is directed
11:15<@peter1138>... in station_map.h
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11:15<@Belugas>line 217
11:16<mic>thanks you
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11:23<mic>is it planned to build oilrigs in levels more then 0? or they always will be in sea?
11:26<@peter1138>always at sea i think
11:26<@peter1138>there might be 'deep water' at some point
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11:35[~]peter1138 tests SmatZ's patch
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11:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10222 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#892]: Only 2 trains could crash at one time as collision checking stopped on the first hit. This could cause desyncs in network games as the collision hash order is not guaranteed. (patch by B. N. Smatz)
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11:57<stillunknown>If the train handling functions were to be rewritten, what "style" would be used?
11:58<stillunknown>The same Train_Tick, TrainLocoHandler, TrainController style, or something else altogether?
12:00|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
12:01<Maedhros>how would you do it without Train_Tick?
12:01<stillunknown>I would keep train tick, but seperate event and tick driven actions as soon as possible.
12:02<stillunknown>Although i do not know if much is too be gained from that.
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12:03<@peter1138>v->Tick() ;)
12:04<stillunknown>I just want to hear people thoughts, before i even try.
12:05<@peter1138>what would you separate out?
12:06[~]Belugas is thinkingof hot black coffee pooring in its mug
12:07<@peter1138>then you'll separate the coffee from the mug by pouring it into yourself?
12:07<stillunknown>peter1138: I can't explain very well at this point, it's just that the combination of TrainLocoHandler and TrainController seems a bit strange.
12:09<stillunknown>It would mostly be an attempt to move some stuff off the tick based system.
12:09<stillunknown>And seeing if sanity improves by redoing those functions.
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12:12<stillunknown>So if anyone has any brilliant ideas, pm them to me as i'll be gone soon.
12:12<@peter1138>i've got a BRILLIANT idea
12:12<@peter1138>and i'm going to execute it right now
12:13<@peter1138>i'm going home :D
12:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10223 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix r10211: GCF_INIT_ONLY flag was never cleared
12:19<pyrotechnick>is Ludvig Strigeus here?
12:20<Wolf01>what do you think about a sort of animation of the brick-terrain when it gets cleared? like "fully brown-ish without studs>brown with some studs>green with some studs>normal"
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12:24<Thomas[NL]>now openttd check for a openttd.cfg from where the game is opened, isn't it better if it checks for a openttd.cfg in the directory of the executable?
12:25<Thomas[NL]>Wolf01, I think going suddenly from totally brown to green is now going to work very well
12:26<Wolf01>ok, now i have all the 4 side slopes and the plain tile
12:26<Wolf01>i only need the pngcodec
12:26<Rubidium>Thomas[NL]: it does, if it cannot find openttd.cfg in the working directory and your home directory
12:27|-|Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away
12:28<Thomas[NL]>when is checking the working directory useful?
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12:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10224 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#891]: the town road belongs to didn't get set properly when a town builds road over tram bits.
12:29<Hendikins>ottd is one of my favourite time killers when I'm stuck in business class on a flight to somewhere :)
12:30<Thomas[NL]>Rubidium, yes..?
12:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10225 /trunk/src/blitter/ (32bpp_base.hpp 32bpp_simple.cpp): -Codechange: move common Colour routines for 32bpp to the base class (and nick it colour, not color)
12:32<Rubidium>so you can have multiple testing "directories" using the same binary
12:32<Wolf01> a little preview of the slopes with the light effect
12:32<Rubidium>without much hassle
12:32<skidd13>Dev thoughts about "" please.
12:32<Thomas[NL]>ah that way
12:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10226 /trunk/src/ (3 files):
12:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add support for newindustry tiles drawing.
12:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Heavily based on Maedhros's newhouses implementation
12:33<Wolf01>:O newindustries :O
12:34<skidd13>one step closer....
12:34<@Belugas>a few thousand left...
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12:35<Wolf01>then, what do you think about that little preview?
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12:37<skidd13>Wolf01: looks nice... Aside will it be 32 or 8bit? Cause brickland could be 8bit due its color scheme
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12:39<Wolf01>mirc is a little stupid today
12:40[~]skidd13 repeats Wolf01: looks nice... Aside will it be 32 or 8bit? Cause brickland could be 8bit due its color scheme
12:40<Wolf01>i read that :)
12:41<Wolf01>and i answered "is 32bpp"
12:41<helb>Its planned as toyland replacement, right?
12:41<Wolf01>but seem that mirc disconnects about 30 seconds before it tell me it
12:41<skidd13>Wolf01: Cause of nfo or the lack of colors?
12:42|-|[BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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12:42<Wolf01>lack of colors
12:43|-|Nickman^Away changed nick to Nickman
12:43<Wolf01>maybe one day we can use our own nfo file to read the actioncodes without encoding all to a single grf
12:43|-|Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away
12:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10227 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Add: added 32bpp-anim blitter, a 32bpp blitter that does palette animation (at the cost of an animation-buffer to keep track of the 'm'-channel of all sprites)
12:45<TrueBrain>now you guys should be all happy and shit
12:45<pyrotechnick>oh we are
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12:46<boekabart>TrueBrain: you made that just now?
12:46<TrueBrain>boekabart: yes
12:46<TrueBrain>got to go
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12:50<@Belugas>skidd13 : i think the NOT_REACHED should be placed at the top
12:50<@Belugas>not sure... but i do thnk
12:51<@Belugas>nice use of SetWindowWidgetsDisabledState :D
12:54<mic>maybe somebody can help: i used GetRailStationTrack and GetRailStationAxis to existing station's cell, but they always returns 0 :(
12:55<skidd13>Belugas: thanks for overview
12:55<mic>station type is STATION_RAIL
12:55<@Belugas>np. But don't ask for functionnality, sorry, work@work... lunch time is over by now :(
12:55<Rubidium>TRACK_X and AXIS_X are 0
12:56<mic>excuse me, i am idiot ))
12:58<mic>tested only on 1-axised stations )
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13:19<Nickman>So Wolf01, how are the bricks coming? ;)
13:28<Wolf01>i have some alignment troubles, but i think i can manage it
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13:40<@Belugas>Wolf01, it looks nice
13:40<@Belugas>it must be so different than coding :D
13:40<Wolf01>yes i needed a pause :D
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13:56<Eddi|zuHause>omg. they killed peter...
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14:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10228 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#894]: why MSVC must always bitch about stuff?
14:05<dihedral>where can i find a lit of languages along with their value? (reagarding the server_lang)
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>with grep?
14:06<Rubidium>src/network/network.h ?
14:06<dihedral>yeah - why is it i never think of those things
14:06<Rubidium>because grep is "difficult"?
14:06<dihedral>yeah - right!!
14:07<dihedral>na - network.h is nicer :-P
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14:09<+glx>dihedral: settings.cpp has the "names" for cfg :)
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14:09<dihedral>makes sense does it not?
14:10<+glx>yep, dunno if these values are on the wiki though
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14:10<dihedral>well - the wiki aint as up 2 date as the code :-P
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause>well - update it :)
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14:41<nairan>umm for the non working grfs is the sign now wrong
14:41<nairan>the inner part is black instead of white with a ! in it
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14:45<dihedral>why is heightmap.h included twice in landscape.cpp?
14:45<+glx>is it?
14:46<dihedral>lines 6 and 25
14:46<peter1138>should to keep you on your toes
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14:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10229 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Cleanup: removed duplicate include (dihedral)
14:50<dihedral>glx: while you are at it
14:50<dihedral>you can do the same for /brances/0.5
14:50<+glx>will be done with backports :)
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14:56<Rubidium>glx: it will?
14:57<+glx>yes why not (landscape.c has the duplicate include too)
14:59<Rubidium>it's not like it's very important; about as important as adding comments and we don't backport them either
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15:00<+glx>right, but it's not a big thing
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15:38<skidd13>Am I correct or does this patch do autoslope?
15:39<Sug>thats what it seems
15:39<Sug>his name is a bit werid
15:43<Wolf01>yeah, i like the picture-story he made :D
15:46<peter1138>skidd13: any similarity to a feature known as 'autoslope' in ttdpatch is purely...
15:46<Wolf01>yes, that is build under slopes :P
15:47<Wolf01>i need to draw the last 4 tiles to finish the normal terrain :D
15:47<skidd13>I never played patch seriously... I heard only about autoslope... That's why I'm asking. ;)
15:49<@Belugas>by the way, isn't this a feature taht was developped a long time ago by OTTD in the old map branch ?
15:50<Wolf01>Belugas, they are talking too much...
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15:53<peter1138>it's not real anyway :)
15:53<@Belugas>no kidding... he faked it??
15:53<peter1138>shame really
15:53<Rubidium>he faked it by using foundations
15:54<Rubidium>it's not as the stuff in the old map branch (can't have foundations of 2 or more heightlevels)
15:54<peter1138>the old map branch did that? hmm
15:54<@Belugas>can we resurect it somehow?
15:54<@Belugas>yes, i still have some screenies somewhere
15:54<peter1138>easy. drop all work on trunk since ;)
15:55<Rubidium>peter1138: yes, it did, though drawing wasn't "fixed"
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15:55<skidd13>"Belugas: can we resurect it somehow? " --- I'd say svn co -r xxx LOL
15:56<Rubidium>-r isn't needed
15:56<@Belugas>a tiny way more complicated then that, i'm afraid :D
15:56[~]Wolf01 wonders that seem strange MB and his minions did not already posted on my topic about the brickland set... to ask why i decided to make it 32bpp instead of grf
15:58<@Belugas>simple answer : "because WE can"
15:58<peter1138>someone should teach the AI about build-on-slopes
15:59<@Belugas>damn... can't find those screenies
16:00<@Belugas>Rubidium, could it be you who gave me those screenies? I kinda remember we discussed it right after the tfc_newmap ending
16:01<Rubidium>ah well, lets checkout and see whether it (still) compiles
16:02<Rubidium>ooh, major compiler errors ;)
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16:05<@Belugas>i remember it did not compiled with MSVC. i tried to fix it. Tron was puzzled :)
16:05<@Belugas>"wtf is he doing?"
16:05<@Belugas>i wanted the cliffs in
16:06<Rubidium>it's good it isn't compiled with -Werror ;)
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16:11<Rubidium> <- that is the map branch
16:12<peter1138>that's almost cool
16:12<Rubidium>"some" drawing glitches remained
16:12<peter1138>is it also slow?
16:13<Rubidium>don't know
16:14<@Belugas>gaaa... it's awfully late...
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16:14[~]Belugas runs home
16:14<@Belugas>night all
16:14<Wolf01>night :)
16:15<Rubidium>night Belugas
16:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10230 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp lang/english.txt water_map.h): -Fix [FS#594]: terraforming wipes out canals. Now you always have to remove the canal before terraforming, instead of "just" removing the canal.
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16:21<skidd13>I get damned warnings with g++-4.2:
16:21<skidd13>src/misc/blob.hpp:240: Warnung: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>we recently discussed that it's probably a g++ bug
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>it's complaining about an internal optimisation
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16:37<skidd13>What about args for configure to select -O3 and -Os?
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16:43<Wolf01> people admire this ... ehm... beautifull fision!
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16:48<Wolf01>they look very good with the grey forum background:
16:49<peter1138>yeah, but... in game? ;)
16:49<Wolf01>eheh :D
16:49<peter1138>i do think athanasios is 'funny' though...
16:49<peter1138>" I am against any idea of replacing or worse removing toyland in OpenTTD"
16:49<Wolf01>i hope they align right in game, because i tried to put them close and seem so
16:50<peter1138>as if your package is automatically going to be put into trunk to replace toyland...
16:51<Wolf01>...since now to 5 years :P
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17:11<Wolf01>night people
17:11|-|Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:11<Nickman>We wan't bricks Wolf01.... :(
17:11<Nickman>damn, to late :p
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17:12<Nickman>peter1138, you think you can cut those tiles to see how they look ingame? :D
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17:14<Rubidium>Nickman: don't expect a swift reply from peter1138; he also went to bed a few minutes ago
17:14<Nickman>oeps :D
17:14<Nickman>well, I'll be off to bed soon... :D
17:16<Zr40>Rubidium, got a few minutes? :)
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17:26<Smoovious>Rubidium... bah... that figures... re:FS895... my dumb ass totally missed that. :( sorry for the waste of time
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17:37<dihedral>i think i shall get to bed
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17:39<dihedral>have a nice evening guys
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17:41<pyrotechnick>has anyone noticed that sometimes you get a news report like "supply problems cause [nothing] to announce immediate closure"
17:42<pyrotechnick>but othertimes the industry is still there and its name gets put into the news report
17:45<pyrotechnick>i imagine its because of lag in the message system, by the time its had a change to pop up as a news report the industry is already gone
17:45<pyrotechnick>and so there is no industry to get a name from, right>?
17:46<Rubidium>yup, that's it
17:51<pyrotechnick>i guess its pretty hard to fix then
17:51<pyrotechnick>because it would mean copying the industry name somewhere for later
17:51<pyrotechnick>unless when industries shutdown, they can still exist
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18:06<pyrotechnick>with the airport selection dialogue, sometimes all the accepted cargo rates doesnt fit in the window
18:10<SmatZ>in the "available road vehicles list" trams are not shown ... but in the "available trains" are shown all trains - normal, monorail, maglev
18:11<SmatZ>it is probably correct, but unexpected for me :)
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18:12<pyrotechnick>wat r trams?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>light railways that usually have their tracks laid on roads
18:13<pyrotechnick>but how do u make them?
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>use the nightly and a tram grf
18:14<pyrotechnick>that is freaking awesome
18:14<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
18:14<_42_>Sacro, if you can't see Bjarni here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
18:14<SmatZ>it is under the Build road menu - popup menu like Railway / Monorail / Maglev
18:14<pyrotechnick>anything i need to look out for in the nightlies?
18:15<SmatZ>you need svn and compile, or download at
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>there are lots of new features
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>starting with bridges over everything
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>over newhouses
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>to trams
18:16<Sacro>bridges over newhouseS?
18:16<pyrotechnick>yes thats what he said
18:16<pyrotechnick>not old houses just new ones
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>that is not what i meant :p
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>it's a weird ambiguousity (is that a word?)
18:18<SmatZ>I don't know if it is a word, but I understad what you said :)
18:18[~]Bjarni slaps Sacro
18:18[~]Sacro slaps Bjarni
18:19<@Bjarni>there is a £50 fine for highlighting me without reason
18:19<@Bjarni>pay up
18:19<Sacro>you just highlighted me for a slap
18:19<Sacro>i consider that worthy of a £100 fine
18:19<@Bjarni>you can't do that
18:19<@Bjarni>you aren't op
18:19<Sacro>who says?@
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>you're fine people alright :p
18:20<pyrotechnick>wats #openttd.wt2
18:20|-|Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:20<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
18:20<_42_>Sacro, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 6 seconds ago (19.06. 23:20) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 3 hours 25 minutes there.
18:20<Sacro>now he gets a message on his return :p
18:20<pyrotechnick>what is #openttd.wt2
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>you are truely evil, Sacro ... NOT! :p
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>pyrotechnick: a subchannel for web translator 2
18:21<pyrotechnick>oh ok
18:23<pyrotechnick>hey, algorithmatically, what makes a city grow?
18:24<+glx>depends on climate
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18:28<Phazorx>hmm... global grf path still doesnt work
18:28<Phazorx>i can see the fles but ottd fails to load them :/
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18:32<Phazorx>any ideas?
18:33<+glx>of course it should be in a data subdir
18:34<Phazorx>C:\GAMES\OTTD>ls "C:\Documents and Settings\Pavel\My Documents\OpenTTD\data\planesetw_459.grf" -la
18:34<Phazorx>-rw-rw-rw- 1 user group 133649 May 29 2005 C:\Documents and Settings\Pavel\My Documents\OpenTTD\data\planesetw_459.grf
18:34<Phazorx>i have it in both
18:36<+glx>and it finds ttd grfs?
18:36<Phazorx>the are in per build folders
18:36<Phazorx>cuz these differ
18:36<Phazorx>they dont
18:37<+glx>trg*.grf can be in the global one :)
18:37<Phazorx>but i dont know which default ones are openttds
18:37<Phazorx>i'll move them once it works
18:37<pyrotechnick>for some retarded reason which i find awesome, theres this one town in my game with like 10000 ppl in it while all the rest are more like 600
18:37<+glx>can you see it in newgrf add window?
18:38<Phazorx>now it doesnt start :/
18:39<Phazorx>and i am using stock nighty, not the one i compiled
18:41<+glx>does it says something?
18:42<Phazorx>it works if i move base grfs into /data of common folder
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18:44<+glx>using 10227?
18:46<Phazorx>works now tho
18:46<Phazorx>i dont get it however
18:47<+glx>remove openttd.cfg in global may help
18:47<Phazorx>global path?
18:47<+glx>in My Documents
18:48<Phazorx>i dont have any cfg there
18:48<Phazorx>only grfs
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21:35<@Belugas>nice work you did, btw
21:36<TheJosh>Thankyou. ill take that as you liking it?
21:39<@Belugas>yes indeed
21:41<TheJosh>now ofcourse theres the issue of geting it into trunk... :)
21:44<Digitalfox>What issue TheJosh ?? We just need to send some money to belugas, i'm sure he wouldn't mind :) Right Belugas ?? ;)
21:44<@Belugas>to be honest, TheJosh, i made myself a commitment to work exclusively on newindustries, which i do at the moment.
21:44<@Belugas>until it is done, i won't touch anyting else, no mattter how pleasant or good it may be
21:45<TheJosh>so Belugas, do you have paypal?
21:45<TheJosh>whats yoir prefferred currecncy?
21:45<@Belugas>in gold :)
21:46<TheJosh>my sisters boyfriend is a jeweller, i can get you some if you want
21:46<TheJosh>few grams
21:52<TheJosh>hmm, what other developers are on
21:53[~]TheJosh wonders the best way to suck up
21:56<TheJosh>so glx...
21:57<TheJosh>im just joking around have svn access right?
21:57<TheJosh>do you accept gold?
21:57<+glx>yes, but I don't have time :)
21:58<TheJosh>there must be someone here that will swap a commit for gold (or money)
21:58<+glx>at that time?
21:58<+glx>good luck :)
21:58<TheJosh>what time is it?
21:59<+glx>[04:59:04] <TheJosh> what time is it?
21:59<TheJosh>dang...ill come back in a few hours
22:00<TheJosh>what are you doing on the net at 5am?
22:00<+glx>heading for my bed :D
22:00<@Belugas>as I will shortly :D
22:01<TheJosh>when is a good time for people? tis midday here
22:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10231 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: MSVC project files
22:02<+glx>most devs are in CEST
22:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10232 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
22:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix(r1): _numof_industry_table never was composed of 12 entries. Only 11.
22:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: It never hurt before, but it would have...
22:03<TheJosh>CEST where?
22:03<@Belugas>i'm the only one on another continent (north america)
22:04<TheJosh>ah ok. well sleep well
22:04<+glx>night all :)
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22:05<@Belugas>same for me...
22:05<@Belugas>night all
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 20 00:00:47 2007