| --- | Log | opened Wed Jun 20 00:00:47 2007 |
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| 02:28 | <dihedral> | good morning |
| 02:28 | <dihedral> | seems awfully quiet in here! |
| 02:35 | <hylje> | no |
| 02:35 | <hylje> | it is peaceful |
| 02:36 | <dihedral> | thats a way of putting it |
| 02:37 | <Rubidium> | the silence before the storm? |
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| 02:46 | <|Gekkko|> | I'm here |
| 02:46 | <|Gekkko|> | therefore the world will end |
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| 02:48 | <hylje> | :o |
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| 03:45 | |-| | Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 03:45 | <Chris82> | good morning |
| 03:45 | <Chris82> | is peter here? :) |
| 03:45 | <Chris82> | just read your reply: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=599123#599123, unfortunately it didn't fix the issue :( |
| 03:46 | <peter1138> | yes |
| 03:46 | <peter1138> | you need to up the saveload version too |
| 03:47 | <Chris82> | I did so, the savegame was made with 66 so I set the CONDVAR to from 66 and the SAVEGAME_VERSION is now 67 in saveload.cpp |
| 03:47 | <Chris82> | but I still get the error |
| 03:48 | <Chris82> | this seems very odd anyway, which unknown tag can the savegame containt when the old setting was S (i.e. do not store in savegame) |
| 03:49 | <peter1138> | huh? |
| 03:49 | <peter1138> | you need to set the CONDVAR to from 67 |
| 03:50 | <peter1138> | as it didn't exist in 66 |
| 03:50 | <Chris82> | ah ok :D |
| 03:50 | <Chris82> | let me try that |
| 03:52 | <Chris82> | perfect that did the job, thx for the quick help so early in the morning =) |
| 03:53 | <Phazorx> | hmm... can i profile ottd within mingw? |
| 03:54 | |-| | Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] |
| 03:57 | <peter1138> | probably |
| 03:58 | <Rubidium> | depends on whether you can actually profile anything in mingw ;) |
| 03:59 | <|Gekkko|> | the windows version is MinGW? |
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| 04:01 | <Chris82> | Does anybody know how to change the default size of a window with the better graphs patch? |
| 04:01 | <Chris82> | The standard windows seem pretty tiny on a big screen when opened |
| 04:02 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: that exactly is my question |
| 04:03 | <Maedhros> | Chris82: look for the static const Widget _<name> and WindowDesc arrays, and change the width and height there |
| 04:03 | <Phazorx> | |Gekkko|: yes, w32 |
| 04:03 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: sounds like a question for some mingw specialists and I don't think we've got them here |
| 04:04 | <Phazorx> | Kaan? |
| 04:04 | <Chris82> | thx, I think I found the correct line :) |
| 04:04 | <Maedhros> | Chris82: you'll have to change all the widget widths and heights too |
| 04:04 | <Maedhros> | yay for pixel-based guis ;) |
| 04:05 | <Phazorx> | yay for search and replace too :) |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | +static const WindowDesc _history_window_desc = { |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | + WDP_AUTO, WDP_AUTO, 640, 256, |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | I think this is the line for width and height? |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | it should draw all of the graph windows since they all open with the same size by default |
| 04:07 | <Maedhros> | it should do, perhaps, but i'm pretty sure it doesn't ;) |
| 04:16 | |-| | TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd |
| 04:16 | <TheJosh> | hey all |
| 04:25 | |-| | Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away |
| 04:28 | <Chris82> | Maedhros: Haha well that partially did what I wanted, it only increased the size of the graph itself |
| 04:28 | <TheJosh> | hey i am just interested, whats the demographic of players using different operating systems? |
| 04:28 | <Chris82> | the window has still the same size, so the borders are smaller than the graph and also the title bar |
| 04:29 | <TheJosh> | brb |
| 04:30 | <Rubidium> | TheJosh: very hard to determine; most Windows/OSX people download the binaries, most linux/unix users compile directly from subversion |
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| 04:31 | <Biff> | the linux-binaries takes some time to come out, so you often have to compile |
| 04:32 | <Chris82> | Rubidium: Then I am very constrasty to other people :D I am Windows fanatic, but I only compile OTTD myself :D |
| 04:33 | |-| | tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B8179C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd |
| 04:33 | <Phazorx> | i tihnk that is easy to determine amongsts active players by putting a poll on download page |
| 04:34 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: doesn't work, because a lot of people (especially linux) compile straight from subversion and therefor never see that page |
| 04:34 | <Phazorx> | svn probably has stats too |
| 04:35 | <Rubidium> | don't think it tells you the operating system |
| 04:36 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: this is the whole beauty of open source software |
| 04:36 | <Caemyr> | to compile it yourself |
| 04:37 | |-| | |Gekkko| changed nick to Gekkko |
| 04:37 | <Caemyr> | i`m also a WinNT fanboy, but i compile each new rev of ReactOS myself, even though it takes quite a lot of time... |
| 04:37 | <Caemyr> | i`m getting things ready to compile OTTD as well |
| 04:38 | <Rubidium> | setting up a working build environment under windows is pretty tricky, unless you use buildottd ofcourse |
| 04:38 | <Caemyr> | you have a building environment? |
| 04:39 | <Caemyr> | for win32/gcc? |
| 04:40 | <Rubidium> | well, a user made it. You can find it on the forum and sf.net |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | if only it works, i cant ask for more |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | what gcc can be used? |
| 04:42 | <Rubidium> | "any" |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | ah:) |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | great thx |
| 04:43 | <Rubidium> | as long as it's gcc-2.95 or more, but 4 is probably best |
| 04:43 | <Gekkko> | can the Win32 version be compiled from GNU/Linux? |
| 04:43 | <Caemyr> | yeah |
| 04:43 | <Caemyr> | 3.4.5 was pretty buggy |
| 04:43 | <Gekkko> | what about GNU/Hurd |
| 04:43 | <Gekkko> | :P |
| 04:43 | <Noldo> | Rubidium: 2.95 might not be good if someone has used stdlib containers |
| 04:43 | <Noldo> | c++ stdlib that is |
| 04:43 | <Maedhros> | it works - the morphos port is compiled with it |
| 04:44 | <Biff> | Chris82: you compile windows yourself? |
| 04:44 | <Biff> | ;) |
| 04:44 | <Rubidium> | gcc 2.95 gives a big load of warnings though |
| 04:45 | <Chris82> | Biff: Yes ;) *jk* |
| 04:45 | <Chris82> | An operating system is nothing that should be open source. |
| 04:45 | <Caemyr> | i`m still amazed seeing what you`ve done with good old ttdlx |
| 04:45 | <Biff> | Chris82: why not? |
| 04:46 | <Chris82> | I am primarily absolutely against open source. Games like OTTD is something ok, but Open Source Anti Virus Tools, Firewall, or even Operating Systems, noooo way I am ever gonna use that. |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: go away |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 04:46 | <Noldo> | your loss |
| 04:46 | <Biff> | Chris82: so, if the source code of windows would be open, you would delete windows? |
| 04:46 | <Chris82> | Yes, then I'd use Mac OS X |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | why |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | Mac OS X is partly Open Source |
| 04:46 | <Chris82> | I don't like the idea of every hacker in the world knowing the source code of all software I use |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | under a BSD licence |
| 04:47 | <Noldo> | Gekkko: mostly even |
| 04:47 | <Biff> | Chris82: go on, delete it. its partly open source already, alot of students etc have access to the source code of windows |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | lol Chris82 |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | reverse engineering |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | you wonder how you have your machine dying. |
| 04:47 | <Noldo> | Chris82: if it's well coded the source won't help |
| 04:47 | <Chris82> | I am computer science student, but it would be new to me that I get Windows Source Code access :D |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | seems that you are in the wrong profession |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | or going towards it anywho |
| 04:47 | <Noldo> | Chris82: is it's not well coded hiding the source won't help in protecting you |
| 04:48 | <Gekkko> | lol Noldo: Windows secret to security is the //fixme written all through out their source code |
| 04:48 | <Gekkko> | could you imagine Vista written in ASM? |
| 04:48 | <Chris82> | Assembler? |
| 04:48 | <Noldo> | Chris82: And can you tell if windows is well coded? |
| 04:48 | <Biff> | i call troll :-) |
| 04:49 | <Chris82> | No I can't tell because I don't even have the skills to code anything even closely as complex as Windows. |
| 04:49 | <peter1138> | lol |
| 04:49 | <Chris82> | When I see the source I wouldn't be able to tell it as well :p |
| 04:49 | <Biff> | Chris82: more then 1 person makes a operating system |
| 04:49 | <peter1138> | worst argument ever against opensource |
| 04:49 | <Gekkko> | peter1138: agreed. |
| 04:50 | <Gekkko> | I believe in kick ban :) |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | But speaking of source code, I gotta hurry to uni for my Java exercice :p |
| 04:50 | <Biff> | Gekkko: i belive in free speech |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | Thanks :) |
| 04:50 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Gekkko I too believe in kicks |
| 04:50 | |-| | Gekkko kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [I too believe in kicks] |
| 04:50 | |-| | Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd |
| 04:50 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 04:50 | <TrueBrain> | morning all |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | I have nothing against people who like open source |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | and I have nothing against Linux |
| 04:50 | <Noldo> | gekko belives in autorejoin |
| 04:50 | <Gekkko> | yep |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | it's just nothing that I want to use |
| 04:51 | <TrueBrain> | next time it is a ban for 2 minutes :p Mwhahahaha! |
| 04:51 | <Gekkko> | enjoy Vista Chris82 |
| 04:51 | <Gekkko> | lolol |
| 04:51 | <Chris82> | I do :) |
| 04:51 | <Gekkko> | <3 DRM |
| 04:51 | <TrueBrain> | Chris82: I have nothing against people who use Windows, I ust wish them good luck keeping it clean ;) |
| 04:51 | <Biff> | Chris82: so you propose that Windows is more secure then a Linux-based operating system? |
| 04:51 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you're *not* going to win this... |
| 04:51 | <Noldo> | Biff: now you are toning he down |
| 04:51 | <Noldo> | *him |
| 04:52 | <Chris82> | Depends on the user. If you're a computer noob a default Win Vista install is at least at a comparable level like Debian for example. |
| 04:52 | <Chris82> | And 99% of all computer users are noobs in my opinion. |
| 04:52 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: so you prefer an OS that no outsider can reviewed properly over an OS that can be reviewed properly by outsiders. |
| 04:52 | <Chris82> | I personally do yes, because I don't believe in all these calling home and NSA registry key theories =D |
| 04:53 | <Biff> | you dont belive in them, but noone can check it out |
| 04:53 | <TrueBrain> | Chris82: but you do suspect Open Source OSes doing that? |
| 04:53 | <Chris82> | I mean the Vista Firewall even blocks the Windows Activation in contrary to the XP Firewall, isn't that a nice improvement :D:D haha |
| 04:53 | <Gekkko> | I laugh at your communist theory. |
| 04:53 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you've got quite a misguided view of open source |
| 04:53 | <Rubidium> | nah, he believes that it is easier to exploit open source OSes than closed source OSes |
| 04:54 | <Gekkko> | I believe no matter what OS you're on, you're gonna get DoS'ed. |
| 04:54 | <Chris82> | That's more my point yes. |
| 04:54 | <Gekkko> | just depends on how your system copes |
| 04:54 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you're misguided, your view is based on nothing except your own assumptions and preconceptions.. |
| 04:54 | <Chris82> | No OS calls home or anywhere unless you got hacked or didn't de-activate all this user experience crap which is not only in Windows. |
| 04:54 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, maybe not if you use Tor? :P |
| 04:55 | <Chris82> | It's based on my experience with a Linux Server for 7 years. |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: lol go Tor |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | but I run a web server |
| 04:55 | |-| | Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | so no Tor for me |
| 04:55 | <Chris82> | Since I am no computer expert I got hacked 2 times! This didn't happen with my Win 2k3 Server yet which I have for about the same time. |
| 04:55 | <TrueBrain> | You can have a webserver and run Tor |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | noone try my IP, it's all closed right now |
| 04:55 | |-| | Nickman^Away changed nick to Nickman |
| 04:55 | <Chris82> | Although Windows is much less secure of course. |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | TrueBrain: didn't knwo that |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: tell me again why you are doing BSc? |
| 04:55 | <TrueBrain> | Chris82: haha, that is a bad example to say OpenSource is worse over some Closed Source ;) |
| 04:56 | <Chris82> | Why is it bad? |
| 04:56 | <TrueBrain> | that you just protected your installion poorly ;) |
| 04:56 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: and what was the reason you've got hacked? |
| 04:56 | <Sionide> | Chris82, a friend of mine used to have the same view as you, that it must be easier to hack into open source because you can see the source code, it took me about 10 minutes to convince him otherwise but i'm not wasting my time doing the same for you |
| 04:56 | <Chris82> | Servers are something where Linux and Windows actually share a bigger market |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: I thought it would be easier to hack too |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | but then I thought about it |
| 04:56 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, and saw the light |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | my own brain phases an argument |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | I <3 my brain |
| 04:56 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, the light of the bulb above your head going on, that is |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | it tells me things. |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | Example: I manage around N windows servers, and 4 * N ^ 2 Linux servers... the Windows servers need to reboot about every month, and are magicly rebooted once in the 3months... the linux servers run for over a year (then I do a kernel update) |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | Anyway gotta hurry to uni lecture starts in 15 mins :p |
| 04:57 | <Gekkko> | I haven't used Windows at all for 3 weeks |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | we can continue this later ;) |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | no, we want you to get late :p |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | don't you see? |
| 04:57 | <Gekkko> | I had to use it for gaming :P |
| 04:57 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, 2 years, heh |
| 04:57 | <Gekkko> | Wine was insufficient |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | haha then you don't know how fast I'm with my bike :p |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | c ya l8er |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | I want to see ;) |
| 04:57 | <Sionide> | Chris82, with IMglish like that - you'll never win an argument in your life! |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | TrueBrain: I love compiling a kernel |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | I find it exciting. |
| 04:58 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Sionide blablabla, now that is a nasty thing to say |
| 04:58 | |-| | Sionide kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [blablabla, now that is a nasty thing to say] |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | but I'm a weirdo. |
| 04:58 | |-| | Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 04:58 | <Sionide> | aw |
| 04:58 | <TrueBrain> | Gekkko: it is nice to compile kernels in general :) Just not nice to reboot all the time on production servers ;) |
| 04:58 | [~] | Sionide keeps quiet |
| 04:58 | <TrueBrain> | clients do not like that ;) |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | that's true |
| 04:58 | <Noldo> | Gekkko: I find it exiting too, I never know when my computer reboots from overheating |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | I'm about to setup a shell company |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | a small one |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | Cookie Shell |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | xD |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | bought teh domain and all. |
| 04:59 | <TheJosh> | csh |
| 04:59 | <TheJosh> | cksh |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 04:59 | <eekee> | \o ^^ |
| 04:59 | <TheJosh> | i prefer bash |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | the best part is: AMD Duron 800mhz with 386mb ram |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | lolol |
| 04:59 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | i had a computer once with 4mb or ram and a 25mhz processor |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | redhat 5, irc server |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | also ran samba and apache |
| 05:00 | <eekee> | A whole 25MHz? |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | dns name: 'snail' |
| 05:00 | <TrueBrain> | if it is an arm CPU |
| 05:00 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:00 | <TrueBrain> | you get a long way |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | 386 |
| 05:01 | <TheJosh> | or a 286 cant remember |
| 05:01 | <TrueBrain> | (only stating a MHz doesn't get you anywhere) |
| 05:01 | <eekee> | You won't run Linux on a 286 |
| 05:01 | <TheJosh> | this was linux 2.0 |
| 05:01 | <TheJosh> | if that needed a 386 then it was a 386 |
| 05:02 | <TheJosh> | brb: chickent |
| 05:02 | <TheJosh> | chickents |
| 05:02 | <TheJosh> | chickens...got it! |
| 05:02 | <eekee> | Yeah my first Linux was kernel 2.0.14 on an 8MB 486... 12MHz iirc, although I soom upgraded to 33MHz with VLB |
| 05:02 | <Gekkko> | so |
| 05:02 | <Gekkko> | do you think people will pay to use that system? |
| 05:02 | <Gekkko> | I don't limit what apps can be used |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | except nothing illegal |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | eggdrop, etc can be used |
| 05:03 | <eekee> | ooh, little bit maybe, ya |
| 05:03 | <peter1138> | did 486s ever come at 12MHz? |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | remote X for an extra $5 a month |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | :P |
| 05:03 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:04 | <eekee> | peter1138: yep. In fact, this had a 15-MHz chip soldered in underneath the PSU, and someone had "upgraded" it with a plug-in 12MHz |
| 05:05 | <hylje> | heh, upgrades |
| 05:05 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:07 | <eekee> | I put X on it & stuff segfaulted constantly until I added another 4MB of ram much later, against dire warning to never have more ram than half your swap. It ran fine |
| 05:07 | <TheJosh> | back |
| 05:07 | <eekee> | wb |
| 05:07 | <TheJosh> | 3 doz eggs |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | hmm |
| 05:08 | <TheJosh> | average production for a day |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | time to attempt ripping cds in Linux |
| 05:08 | <eekee> | ah ^^ |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | then I sadly have to reboot into Linux for iTunes. |
| 05:08 | <hylje> | no need to attempt |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | oh wait, I've got gtkpod. |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | huzzah |
| 05:08 | <TheJosh> | reboot? what does that mean again? i forget |
| 05:08 | <hylje> | dd if=/media/cdrom of=/home/gekko/ripped-cd |
| 05:09 | |-| | Sug [~graeme@88-104-118-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd |
| 05:09 | <TheJosh> | there are even tools for ripping audio to ogg |
| 05:09 | <hylje> | for the record, articulated tram |
| 05:09 | <eekee> | yay? |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | im using grip |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | im ripping with lame |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | it's for an iPod |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | iPods are lame. |
| 05:10 | <TheJosh> | ha ha |
| 05:10 | <eekee> | :) |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | I use a Palm PDA for my music |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | everything on my PDA is Open Source |
| 05:10 | <hylje> | pda? music? |
| 05:10 | <hylje> | eww |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | or freeware |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | or pirated. |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:10 | |-| | Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 05:10 | <eekee> | I wish my Zaurus hadn't broken |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | eww? |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | Palm TX is sexy |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | 2gb SD card |
| 05:10 | <TheJosh> | i have a computer for my music |
| 05:10 | <hylje> | i has n9300 |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | you cant go wrong |
| 05:10 | <TheJosh> | and an equaliser and 3 amps |
| 05:11 | <TheJosh> | serious home-made soundsystem, |
| 05:11 | <Brianetta> | openttd: command.c:529: DoCommandP: Assertion `res == res2' failed. |
| 05:11 | <Brianetta> | Server has exited |
| 05:11 | <Brianetta> | Boo. |
| 05:11 | <eekee> | TheJosh: nice ^_^ |
| 05:11 | <TheJosh> | i think res equals res2. |
| 05:11 | <hylje> | boo indeed |
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| 05:11 | <TheJosh> | eekee: thanks |
| 05:11 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: that looks nice |
| 05:11 | |-| | geoff_k [~geoff_k@host81-152-90-185.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
| 05:12 | <TheJosh> | one of my speakers died recently though. one of my real good loud bassy ones. works but is crap quality. may need a new driver :( |
| 05:12 | <TheJosh> | there goes $300 to $500 bucks |
| 05:12 | <eekee> | ahh :/ |
| 05:12 | <eekee> | ya |
| 05:12 | <dihedral> | ouch |
| 05:12 | <hylje> | enjoy your sound systems |
| 05:12 | <TheJosh> | ill open it up and check its not just a loose conection or a dead crossover |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | when it was working it was awsome though. i tested it recently, 103 db |
| 05:13 | <eekee> | My comp's linked up to an old Toshiba amp that probably dates from the mid-80s. That feeds into speakers which aren't bad, but both the amp & the speakers have a warm somewhat muddy tone so together they aren't very good |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | concert volume in a room |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | eekee: cool |
| 05:13 | <hylje> | amps dont really obsolete |
| 05:14 | <hylje> | like computers do |
| 05:14 | <TheJosh> | im down to 2 tweeters at the moment till i work out this big speaker |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | ^^ The alternative is my headphones, I got a pair of Sennheiser HD 590s I really like ^^ They have a sharp tone which balances the amp reasonably well |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | eep |
| 05:14 | [~] | geoff_k uses old realistic reciever amp |
| 05:14 | <TheJosh> | hope it works again, its a real nice one |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | hylje: yeah... the big capacitors in them just blow up eventually ^^; |
| 05:14 | <TheJosh> | 12 inch bass driver with a magnet about 15x15x15 cm |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | :O :D |
| 05:15 | <hylje> | cube magnet+ |
| 05:15 | <geoff_k> | with 2 b&w studio monitors which dont actualy belong on it and htey sound too hard with the bass |
| 05:15 | <eekee> | aw mew |
| 05:15 | <geoff_k> | they belog on my nad amp realy but i no used it for some time in the livingroom which also has been used for a while |
| 05:15 | <TheJosh> | hylje: its mega. the amp on number 3 out of 10 things start shaking |
| 05:15 | <Gekkko> | can anyone upload their df to somewhere for me |
| 05:15 | <Gekkko> | I'm too lazy to compile one myself right now |
| 05:16 | <Gekkko> | and busybox is angrying me |
| 05:16 | <TheJosh> | i used to have them under the couch and play halo and the couch would vibrate |
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| 05:16 | <eekee> | :D |
| 05:16 | <eekee> | Oh I HATE busybox lol |
| 05:17 | <Gekkko> | it is crappy as. |
| 05:17 | <Gekkko> | what is df part of? |
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| 05:17 | <Gekkko> | what gnu package |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | coreutils |
| 05:18 | <Gekkko> | no it's not |
| 05:18 | <eekee> | I got my Z & I was all like, "Flipping heck, I had bash 2.0 & a FULL set of tools on an 8MB, 12MHz 486 and they worked FINE, & this thing has 16MB & a 166MHz ARM, and I'm stuck with this busybox crap??? |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | output of df --help: |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | Report bugs to <bug-coreutils@gnu.org>. |
| 05:18 | <Gekkko> | but I compiled coreutils |
| 05:18 | <Gekkko> | it wasnt in it |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | so yes, it is |
| 05:19 | <Zr40> | which version? |
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| 05:19 | <Gekkko> | 6.9 |
| 05:19 | <Zr40> | I have 6.7 |
| 05:19 | <peter1138> | eekee: linux is certainly bloated these days :( |
| 05:19 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coreutils |
| 05:20 | <Zr40> | list contains df :) |
| 05:20 | <TheJosh> | you can always use LFS and then you can choose how bloated you want to make it |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | peter1138: I know. They put Gtk+ 2.0 in PDAs & apps take forever to start. It's horrible! |
| 05:20 | <geoff_k> | its bloated if you use ubuntu, i use slackware its not at all bloated runs well |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | TheJosh: I was gonna LFS my PDA. Never got round to it :J |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | $ gaze from `which df` |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | coreutils-5.94:/bin/df |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | coreutils-6.4:/bin/df |
| 05:20 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: I know |
| 05:20 | <Gekkko> | eekee: wht kiind of PDA |
| 05:20 | <TheJosh> | i started LFS but i got bored |
| 05:21 | <TheJosh> | and frustrated |
| 05:21 | <eekee> | Gekko Zaurus SL-5500, the bottom-line Zaurus, near-enough |
| 05:21 | [~] | SmatZ <-- Gentoo |
| 05:21 | |-| | Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd |
| 05:21 | <TheJosh> | i put gentoo on a machine i made for my sisters |
| 05:21 | <TheJosh> | they wanted windows but i have no money |
| 05:22 | <SmatZ> | I tried LFS, but Gentoo sems easier to handle |
| 05:22 | <TheJosh> | Gentoo is good |
| 05:22 | <TheJosh> | plenty of control, but a heap easier than LFS |
| 05:22 | <eekee> | I LFS's from the old mini-howto, & from the sources on aSUSE dvd-rom because I didn't have internet, but eventually I got very frustrated. Used Gentoo for a bit & then went to Source Mage |
| 05:23 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: it wouldnt copy because "Text file busy" |
| 05:23 | <Gekkko> | so I rmed half of /bin |
| 05:23 | <Gekkko> | that fixed that |
| 05:23 | <eekee> | haha! |
| 05:23 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: "Text file busy"? I've never heard of that error. |
| 05:24 | <Zr40> | but even so, Linux allows deletion of in-use files |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | I love that |
| 05:24 | <SmatZ> | :-D |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | also it hotswaps files |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | I changed irssi and it didnt log me out |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | I was like WTF?! |
| 05:24 | <eekee> | I think I might have had that error once. Prolly deleting something in-use on a vfat fs |
| 05:24 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:24 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: that's what I said :) |
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| 05:25 | <Zr40> | but the running irssi isn't magically updated without restarting it |
| 05:25 | <eekee> | I do remember once beign unable to delete an in-use binary on an ext2 fs. That was wierd |
| 05:26 | <Zr40> | eekee: perhaps it was locked in a weird way. |
| 05:26 | <eekee> | ya guess so |
| 05:26 | <Zr40> | eekee: next time that happens, try lsof | grep filename |
| 05:26 | <Zr40> | replace filename, of course |
| 05:26 | <Caemyr> | eekee: the slowest 486 was 33mhz |
| 05:26 | <Caemyr> | 486sx |
| 05:26 | <eekee> | never had much luck with lsof, but ty |
| 05:27 | <Caemyr> | no math coprocessor |
| 05:27 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10233 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix: 8bpp-optimized encoder fucked up if 255+ pixels in a row were non-transparent (tnx boekabart) |
| 05:27 | <eekee> | Caemyr: Maybe that was the first one they brought out, but you're neglecting budget ones |
| 05:27 | <Caemyr> | and linux cant run 286 as this cpu is unable to run in protected mode |
| 05:27 | <Caemyr> | eekee: nope |
| 05:28 | <TheJosh> | there must be a way...a lot of source hacking |
| 05:28 | <Caemyr> | 286 was 8-16 mhz |
| 05:28 | <SmatZ> | Caemyr: I have 486SX @ 25MHz |
| 05:28 | <Caemyr> | downgraded |
| 05:28 | <TheJosh> | the programmign ethos: "Hack it till it works" |
| 05:28 | <eekee> | Caemyr: oh.. fook, I not only had 12 & 15 (or was it 16) MHz 486s, but I had and knew of many 25MHz ones. Check your facts :) |
| 05:28 | <Caemyr> | ? |
| 05:28 | <TheJosh> | while (broken) { hackIt(); } |
| 05:28 | <eekee> | TheJosh: :D |
| 05:28 | <Zr40> | s/broken/true/ |
| 05:29 | <SmatZ> | :) |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | heheee |
| 05:29 | <Caemyr> | look, 386 were 16-40mhz |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | and? |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | GAH wtf |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | it mounted my ipod with trunticated filenames |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | lolol~1 crap |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | how do i fix thi |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | bah |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | s |
| 05:29 | <Caemyr> | and 486 was the next gen |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | and???? |
| 05:29 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: fat filesystem? |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | fat32 |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | should i precify that fact |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | tell it vfat |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | k |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | not msdos |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | now it font let me unmount |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | damn crappy crap apple |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | umount <dev> |
| 05:30 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: are you sure you mounted it as vfat as TheJosh says? only vfat supports long file names |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | mount <dev> -t vfat |
| 05:30 | <eekee> | Caemyr: stop working things out & check your facts. There is no logical accounting for marketting decisions, so that's the only way! |
| 05:30 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: blame microsoft, not apple |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: i just said mount |
| 05:30 | <Caemyr> | 25 mhz yeah |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: iPod = Apple |
| 05:30 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10234 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy |
| 05:30 | <Caemyr> | possible |
| 05:30 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: linux picks the first working filesystem |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | vfat = MS |
| 05:30 | <Caemyr> | but 16? |
| 05:30 | <Noldo> | :D nice commit message |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | vfat is fat16/32 + long filenames |
| 05:31 | <Caemyr> | a 486 mobo wouldn`t work on such fsb |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | msdos is the same but not longfilenames |
| 05:31 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: if you use the iPod on Windows, it's formatted as fat32 |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | GAH |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | it wont let me umount |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | even when i unplugged the ipod |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | "device busy" |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | -f |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | format it ext3 |
| 05:31 | <SmatZ> | http://www.cpu-world.com/info/id/Intel-80486-identification.html |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | close itunes |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | umount: forced umount of /dev/sdg2 failed! |
| 05:31 | <Zr40> | if you use it on Macs, it's formatted as hfs+ |
| 05:31 | <Caemyr> | well nvm |
| 05:31 | <Zr40> | TheJosh: the ipod doesn't support that :) |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | hack it till it works |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: yes it does |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | iPodLinux |
| 05:31 | <eekee> | *shrug* No acounting for marketting folk :) Do remember though, that a 15 or 16MHz 486 would be about as fast, internally, as a 33MHz 386. I dont' think the average user cared that the bus would b slower, lol |
| 05:32 | <Zr40> | so it becomes an expensive storage medium |
| 05:32 | <Caemyr> | i surrender |
| 05:32 | <eekee> | :) |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | ill return |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | reboot |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | because it wont umount |
| 05:32 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: what does dmesg say? |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | unless someone has an idea |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | how to really force it |
| 05:32 | <TheJosh> | unplug it |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | nothing of interest |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | TheJosh: I did |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | still wont umount |
| 05:32 | <eekee> | umount -f |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | i did |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | you cant unmount a removed volume |
| 05:33 | <Zr40> | umount -f *before* unplugging :) |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | I DID |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | i did it all |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | did you mount as root? |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | ye |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | umount as root? |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | ye |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | restart |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | gah |
| 05:33 | <SmatZ> | eekee: some of those UMC 80486 |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | that should never be an option |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | i know its non-linux but it works |
| 05:33 | <eekee> | I really hate when stuff won't umount |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | modifiy mtab |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | how so |
| 05:33 | <eekee> | yeah, only thing you have to restart for, lol |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | remove the line then its not mounted |
| 05:33 | <Zr40> | TheJosh: that doesn't solve it |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | ung |
| 05:34 | <TheJosh> | HACK |
| 05:34 | <Zr40> | TheJosh: especially on current kernels |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | lol TheJosh I did |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | lets try now |
| 05:34 | <Zr40> | as the kernel keeps an internal state of mount points |
| 05:34 | <eekee> | SmatZ: yeah, I think these chips were UMC... |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | ROFL |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | plugging the ipod into this pc reset it |
| 05:34 | <Zr40> | mtab is for backward compatibility |
| 05:34 | <eekee> | haha |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: this is one backward linux |
| 05:34 | <eekee> | mtab has some info that /proc/mounts doesn't |
| 05:35 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: I mean, for really old linuxes |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | I know. |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | it worked though |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | yay |
| 05:35 | <Zr40> | eekee: such as? |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | GAHGAHGAH |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | now gtkpod segfaults |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | I hate life. |
| 05:35 | <TheJosh> | restart dammit |
| 05:36 | <Gekkko> | I hate this |
| 05:36 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:36 | <Gekkko> | brb |
| 05:36 | |-| | Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] |
| 05:36 | <TheJosh> | or go to runlevel 1 then go back again |
| 05:36 | <Zr40> | that doesn't solve problems in the kernel |
| 05:36 | <Chris82> | back =D |
| 05:36 | <eekee> | Zr40: errrrr.. less than it used to :D but try this: cat /proc/mounts ; echo ; cat /etc/mtab |
| 05:36 | <Chris82> | I see your open source software works well today *g* |
| 05:37 | <Chris82> | I said I am quick on the bike :p |
| 05:37 | <eekee> | Zr40: also remember that /etc/mtab is POSIX, /proc/mounts isn't. The Un*x world is not confined to Linux |
| 05:37 | <Zr40> | eekee: what I said, compatibility |
| 05:37 | <eekee> | yeah |
| 05:37 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:37 | <Zr40> | eekee: the only difference I see is on the usbfs line in mtab |
| 05:37 | <Chris82> | This whole discussion is actually the bigger reason for me not to use Linux |
| 05:37 | <Zr40> | and usbfs is a linux thing :) |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | if you already have problems with this what do you think would all the average users do? |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: you spawned this discussion:P |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | actually no |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | well maybe a little |
| 05:38 | <Sionide> | Chris82, i don't have problems with mine.. mainly because i don't tinker with it an awful lot, so it doesn't break.. windows breaks if you tinker with it. |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | Windows users also seek help |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | all I said was saying that I am Windows fanatic but compile OTTD myself instead of downloading bins :D |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | but they rarely can describe their problem properly |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | yeah |
| 05:38 | <eekee> | Chris82: eh, we didn't used to have problems before the Cult of the New got involved, and personally I blame megacorps like Microsoft fot the cult of the new |
| 05:39 | |-| | |Gekkko| [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | then said that you wouldn`t use open source OS |
| 05:39 | |-| | |Gekkko| changed nick to Gekkko |
| 05:39 | <Gekkko> | hey hey |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | or any vital oss app |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | :) |
| 05:39 | [~] | Rubidium has much more problems and issues getting Windows to compile OpenTTD properly than Linux |
| 05:39 | <Chris82> | yeah I know but what's wrong with it, some people don't use open source os'es, other's do :D |
| 05:39 | <eekee> | I get a bit nervous when people say "compatibility for older linuxes" as if a feature which has worked well since the beginning of UN*X is going away D: |
| 05:39 | <Chris82> | luckily we live in a free world where neither Windows nore Linux is forced on us |
| 05:39 | <eekee> | :D |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:40 | <Sionide> | Chris82, that's a joke... surely? |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | omg it's Chris82 again |
| 05:40 | <Rubidium> | so, if "amount of problems someone has with an OS" is a manner to determine whether noobs have issues with it, then noobs have more issues with windows than with linux |
| 05:40 | <Chris82> | haha :D |
| 05:40 | <Chris82> | yeah my lecture didn't take as long as I thought |
| 05:40 | <Caemyr> | unless you buy a pc and they force you to have windows with it |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | 5 minutes? |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | you need to spend time studying |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 05:40 | <Caemyr> | for which you pay no matter you want it or not;P |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: you're German |
| 05:40 | <Chris82> | yes almost |
| 05:40 | <eekee> | I know a guy who quit his job because after acheiving impressive levels of efficiency with Linux, his boss suddenly forced Windows onto him |
| 05:41 | <Caemyr> | if not directly, then it`s included in the rig`s price |
| 05:41 | <eekee> | Caemyr: there's instructions for gettign the money back on your Windows licence, somewhere ont he web :) |
| 05:41 | <Chris82> | yeah a Dell with Windows the Win licence costs like 20 or 30 USD |
| 05:41 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:41 | <Chris82> | that's really not much |
| 05:41 | <Caemyr> | eekee: look at Vista |
| 05:41 | <Sionide> | Chris82, free software isn't just about the price |
| 05:41 | <eekee> | Caemyr: please don't make me ;.; |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | changing the component required you to purchase license again:P |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | and as I said I also have nothing against open source in general |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | eekee: there is?! |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | yes |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | I want a refund. |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | little nifty tools, games like OpenTTD they are awesome |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | you have:) |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | and I'll still use a pirated product. |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | you state that opensource applications are easier to hack:) |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | but an os, or an anti virus tool I want that closed source |
| 05:42 | <eekee> | Caemyr: I knooooow ;,,,,,; ;,,,,,,; I want to forget such evils exist in the world, pleeeeease!!!!! |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | which is 'complete bs' |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | NO! |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | Don't go there girlfriend |
| 05:42 | <Sionide> | Chris82, i'll say it again heh, your view is misguided |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | YOU MUST NOT |
| 05:42 | [~] | Gekkko clicks fingers 3 times. |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | misguided by who? |
| 05:43 | <eekee> | Chris82: then you're either an idiot or you've never heard of a decompiler |
| 05:43 | |-| | Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | i can see loads of pages |
| 05:43 | <Sionide> | Chris82, by your own assumptions and preconceptions |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | with WIN exploits |
| 05:43 | <Chris82> | I just speak from what I experienced with a Linux server for 7 years and then what I experienced with a Windows server for 6 years |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | why there arent such for linux? |
| 05:43 | <Gekkko> | gah gtkpod died. |
| 05:43 | <Gekkko> | f**k you gtkpod |
| 05:43 | <Chris82> | if there wouldn't be Linux exploits, there would be no hacked servers |
| 05:43 | <Gekkko> | roflsauce. |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | you argue in cycles |
| 05:43 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you're not differentiating between "Linux" and "any other free software applications you might run" |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | many are from PHP and such things, but still there are Linux stand alone servers hacked as well |
| 05:44 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: so, you got hacked twice with the Linux server? How were you hacked remains a valid question on whether the OS is to blame or the user or another application |
| 05:44 | <Gekkko> | if there wouldn't be Windows exploits, microsoft.com wouldn't get DoS'd so much |
| 05:44 | <Sionide> | Chris82, there are still windows stand alone server hacked as well... |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | the root account was hacked because a logging process was faulty |
| 05:44 | <Gekkko> | Port sniffing doesnt discriminate OS |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | I don't know the exact happenings |
| 05:44 | <Caemyr> | no matter if Linux or Windows |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | if I would have known about the "hole" I would have closed it |
| 05:44 | <Sionide> | Chris82, so you didn't install security upgrades? |
| 05:45 | <Caemyr> | around 90% of hacking is successfull due to user being a noob |
| 05:45 | <geoff_k> | its not aways the OS's fault soemone hacks it, its offen down to poor admin skills by the user for which im no expert for sure |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | I had an auto update function running |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | I have no time remoting all day long just to see if there are any security updates |
| 05:45 | <Caemyr> | and leaving a gate wide open to their system |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | yes I agree with that, most hacked servers are due to bad admin skills |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | and not necessarily the OSes fault |
| 05:45 | <Caemyr> | like running Admin/root |
| 05:45 | <geoff_k> | indeed |
| 05:45 | <Gekkko> | whats a good way to use an ipod on linux? |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | but in my opinion Windows is much easier to use than Linux |
| 05:45 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: what kind of logging process? |
| 05:46 | <Chris82> | and therefor less experienced users can achieve better results |
| 05:46 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: it is |
| 05:46 | <Maedhros> | Gekkko: gtkpod? |
| 05:46 | <Chris82> | if you're an expert Linux will work great for you |
| 05:46 | <Gekkko> | it keeps segfaulting |
| 05:46 | <Caemyr> | but it is not due to Windows being closed source |
| 05:46 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, gtkpod has worked for me in the past, other than that it just connects as an external usb disk.. |
| 05:46 | <eekee> | I dunno about servers. I just seeeeriously expect my OS to come with some form of MINIMAL guards that make viruses VERY DIFFICULT to write come BUILT IN and NOT inconvenience me significantly. Linux inherited that from Un*x, who inherited that from other multi-user OSs, who had that kind fo protection IN THE 60s!!!!! |
| 05:46 | <Chris82> | but the vast majority of computer users are no experts |
| 05:46 | <Caemyr> | and Linux being opensource |
| 05:46 | <Sionide> | Chris82, have you tried ubuntu on a desktop machine? |
| 05:46 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: there will be an opensource Windows, do not fear |
| 05:46 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you don't need to be an expert to run ubuntu |
| 05:46 | <Chris82> | and my first days with Linux were awful.... please check this dependency there, this conflict there |
| 05:47 | <Chris82> | whenever I installed one single application I had to solve 10 conflicts and check 50 dependencies |
| 05:47 | <Caemyr> | yeah its hard |
| 05:47 | <Chris82> | I know that's not as bad anymore, but it just makes the system complicated and time consuming |
| 05:47 | <Caemyr> | but look at the average windows user |
| 05:47 | <Sionide> | Chris82, it takes me 2 or 3 clicks maximum to install an application -_- |
| 05:47 | <Caemyr> | looking for help |
| 05:47 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: FreeBSD? |
| 05:47 | <Caemyr> | "My system doesnt boot. What do i do?" |
| 05:47 | <Chris82> | I mean I don't care if my text writing app starts 0,1 sec slower on Windows when I save a few hours maintaining my system |
| 05:47 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: that's just a stupid application installer; a proper one would solve almost all of those issues for you |
| 05:47 | <Gekkko> | and open source windows is called ReactOS |
| 05:47 | <geoff_k> | there are many distros you can run without dependancy issues, i have had no dependancy problems for a long time |
| 05:47 | <Chris82> | FreeBSD? no I was using Red Hat |
| 05:47 | <Gekkko> | no |
| 05:47 | <Gekkko> | I was saying |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | it never required challenge |
| 05:48 | <Sionide> | :\ |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | you said ports this |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:48 | <Chris82> | and another problem I had in connection with the server I am running |
| 05:48 | <eekee> | Windows? Help? I think every Windows computer shop out there uses a different technical vocabulary, and little of it makes sense to someone who grew up knowing the its-and-bytes internals of computers |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | sounds like you live for proprietary applicaiton |
| 05:48 | <Chris82> | whenever I tried to upgrade PHP or something like this it caused massive headaches and I ended up with a broken system many times after such an upgrade |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | enjoy wasting your cpu cycles |
| 05:48 | <Caemyr> | WinNT has some good sides |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | this argument is redundant. |
| 05:48 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: under windows I would be needing a lot of time to check and update each and every application I've got installed. Under Debian you just do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and it's done for you. |
| 05:48 | <Chris82> | when I want to upgrade PHP on my Windows Server I never had any problems |
| 05:48 | <Gekkko> | good night. |
| 05:49 | <geoff_k> | best way to avoid dependancy issues, is get a distro best fits your purpose i rely on 3 main distros to do things |
| 05:49 | <Caemyr> | best driver base ever existed |
| 05:49 | <eekee> | night |
| 05:49 | <Gekkko> | I'm not leavin |
| 05:49 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 05:49 | <Biff> | Chris82: apt-get dist-upgrade, and php is upgraded |
| 05:49 | <eekee> | oh lol |
| 05:49 | <Chris82> | yeah it works well in new Debian distros, I already said it's not as bad anymore |
| 05:49 | <Chris82> | that was a few years ago when I was using Red Hat and got crappy experiences with it |
| 05:49 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: define "new" please |
| 05:50 | <Chris82> | I just wanted to tell you where my "bad opinion" is coming from |
| 05:50 | <eekee> | fair enough |
| 05:50 | <Gekkko> | I love slapt-get |
| 05:50 | <Sionide> | Chris82, if you think it's that easy that hackers can look at the source code for my OS and hack into it, why hasn't somebody done it already? i've been running Ubuntu linux for 2 years ish, why hasn't somebody looked at the code and hacked into me yet? |
| 05:50 | <Gekkko> | it works with any OS |
| 05:50 | <Chris82> | new as in downloaded this year :D |
| 05:50 | <Gekkko> | i swear to go |
| 05:50 | <Gekkko> | d |
| 05:50 | <geoff_k> | i never upgrade either i rebuild services, but then my servers are on virtual machines |
| 05:50 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: because when someone abuses the source, someone patches it within minutes |
| 05:50 | <Gekkko> | thank God for Aspergers Syndrome |
| 05:50 | <Chris82> | Sionide, that's not an argument, I am running Windows for more than a decade and no one has hacked it as well |
| 05:51 | <Chris82> | normal desktop PCs are not hacked anyway unless a noob downloading dialers or stuff like that sits in front of it |
| 05:51 | <Maedhros> | err, no |
| 05:51 | <Caemyr> | firewall |
| 05:51 | <Maedhros> | my roommate once got a virus within 5 minutes of installing windows xp :p |
| 05:51 | <Caemyr> | but no windows |
| 05:51 | <Caemyr> | antivirus |
| 05:51 | <geoff_k> | or installing a load of freeware from silly places |
| 05:51 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: I've been using Debian since 2000 and even in those days it worked like it works now |
| 05:51 | <Maedhros> | without doing anything himself |
| 05:51 | <eekee> | heh, you run anything like ssh, you can watch the attempts being made to crack your password in your logs |
| 05:52 | <Chris82> | Rubidium: Yeah Debian is much better than Red Hat anyway or Fedora as it is called now |
| 05:52 | <Caemyr> | eekee: better to watch it live |
| 05:52 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: you said you've been hacked twice |
| 05:52 | <Caemyr> | its quite funny actually |
| 05:52 | <Chris82> | on Linux yes |
| 05:52 | <Chris82> | not on Windows |
| 05:52 | <Gekkko> | rofl. |
| 05:52 | <Caemyr> | i sometimes enable ftp server |
| 05:52 | <Gekkko> | high five for you |
| 05:52 | <eekee> | Caemyr: eh, no-one's got in in 2.5 years, or if they have they haven't found my system worth damaging |
| 05:52 | <Gekkko> | here's a clue: don't put ssh on port 22 |
| 05:52 | <geoff_k> | eekee, you can use ssh keys to prevent logins without the key you can't then |
| 05:52 | <Gekkko> | don't put ftp on whatever it's port is |
| 05:52 | <Caemyr> | to see some jerks do dictionary attacks |
| 05:52 | <Gekkko> | 21? |
| 05:52 | <Caemyr> | hah |
| 05:53 | <Chris82> | 21 yeah |
| 05:53 | <Rubidium> | oh, and I've been running multiple servers for about the same time and I've never had any breakins |
| 05:53 | <geoff_k> | i dot use ftp its bad |
| 05:53 | <eekee> | geoff_k: interesting, ty |
| 05:53 | <geoff_k> | dot/dont |
| 05:53 | <Caemyr> | 21 |
| 05:53 | <Caemyr> | why not? |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | scp for the win |
| 05:53 | <Sionide> | my ssh runs one time passwords... pretty difficult to hack that, even though the source is as open as anything |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | and ftp is insecure |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | and takes 10 steps to transfer one file |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | its on some wiki |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | ill get the link |
| 05:53 | <Caemyr> | you generate 32 char password |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | passphrase is the best |
| 05:53 | <Caemyr> | and see them sweating over it |
| 05:53 | <Chris82> | well my passwords are definitely not the problem they look like #23sHH#323?sdHH |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | something like |
| 05:53 | <Chris82> | and change every 2 weeks |
| 05:53 | <geoff_k> | ftp transfers passwords unencrypted same goes for http always use https |
| 05:53 | <eekee> | I had pure-ftpd running for a long stretch & no trouble :D |
| 05:53 | <Gekkko> | It rains more on a Sunday than a Monday. |
| 05:54 | <Chris82> | I am running BulletProof FTP |
| 05:54 | <Chris82> | but I don't think that's open source |
| 05:54 | <eekee> | then again, it wsan't like, and advertised server, but I could watch access attempts in the logs ^^;;; |
| 05:54 | <Caemyr> | but i must say i`m quite pleased of my win2k3 standart |
| 05:54 | <TheJosh> | what are the paramters for the gui widget WWT_IMGBTN |
| 05:54 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: do you pay for your Windows |
| 05:54 | <geoff_k> | i use sftp and windows users can conect using winscp which is damn nice tool |
| 05:54 | <Caemyr> | it`s perfect as a desktop:P |
| 05:54 | <Caemyr> | faster than xp |
| 05:55 | <Chris82> | Gekkko: Sometimes. Depends on if I am using an MSDNAA version or something like Vista Ultimate. |
| 05:55 | <Rubidium> | FTP is broken by design when you need authentication (period). |
| 05:55 | <Gekkko> | By that I mean you don't pirate it. |
| 05:55 | <Chris82> | I don't mind paying for it, I get very good and virtually free telephone support for it. |
| 05:55 | <Gekkko> | Do you pirate software Chris82? |
| 05:55 | <Chris82> | Ack @Rubidium |
| 05:55 | <Chris82> | No. |
| 05:55 | <Gekkko> | Have you ever installed pirated software Chris82? |
| 05:55 | <Chris82> | Even my Photoshop is an original :p |
| 05:55 | <Gekkko> | lol idiot. |
| 05:55 | <Chris82> | Yes. |
| 05:55 | <Caemyr> | :)) |
| 05:55 | <Caemyr> | sincere at least |
| 05:55 | <Gekkko> | Do you realise that they are crammed with keyloggers? |
| 05:56 | <Gekkko> | and trojans and rootkits? |
| 05:56 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:56 | <Chris82> | Why? The Adobe Suite only costs 300 bucks for students |
| 05:56 | <Gekkko> | only |
| 05:56 | <hylje> | "only" |
| 05:56 | <Maedhros> | "only" ?! |
| 05:56 | <Chris82> | and I can remove it from my taxes |
| 05:56 | <Gekkko> | I love the use of only. |
| 05:56 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: do you use windows? |
| 05:56 | <TheJosh> | i want to disable a WWT_IMGBTN |
| 05:56 | <TheJosh> | a button on the transperency gui |
| 05:56 | <Chris82> | I know that's not the right word, but I don't know how it is called |
| 05:56 | <Caemyr> | at all? |
| 05:56 | <Gekkko> | Caemyr: only at school, and even the I use PuTTY |
| 05:56 | <hylje> | Gekkko: pirate software is generally virus free |
| 05:56 | <Caemyr> | this is when a good antivirus comes in handy |
| 05:56 | <geoff_k> | Gekkko, try winscp |
| 05:56 | <Caemyr> | like Nod32 |
| 05:56 | <Gekkko> | hylje: the crack isnt |
| 05:56 | <Rubidium> | Gekkko: using putty to telnet ;) |
| 05:57 | <Chris82> | well tell me one Open Source software that is even closely as user friendly and good as Photoshop and Dreamweaver and Premiere :D |
| 05:57 | <Chris82> | then I might consider using this software |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: XaraXL |
| 05:57 | <Caemyr> | also a good IDS |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | Inkscape |
| 05:57 | <Caemyr> | like Jetico |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | GIMPshop |
| 05:57 | <Chris82> | does it work on Windows? |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | yes yes and yes |
| 05:57 | <hylje> | Gekkko: the crackers, scene groups usually, never plant malware on their products; cracks, keygens |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | hylje: that's what they want you to think |
| 05:57 | <Chris82> | good joke hylje |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | how do you think they crack the serials in the first place? |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | they stockpile them |
| 05:57 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:58 | <Chris82> | my dad is one of these computer noobs going to a crack site and having ten viruses per week :D |
| 05:58 | <hylje> | you can of course get your cracks from dodgy sites |
| 05:58 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:58 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: this is true |
| 05:58 | <Gekkko> | love the use of dodgy site |
| 05:58 | <Gekkko> | what kind of crack site isnt dodgy |
| 05:58 | <Chris82> | All crack sites are dodgy if you ask me :p |
| 05:58 | <Gekkko> | Pure cracks, courtesy of virii.ru |
| 05:58 | <Gekkko> | affiliate of trojan.ro |
| 05:58 | <Caemyr> | depends where do you get the pirated stuff from |
| 05:59 | <hylje> | due to what the cracker groups are, they do not have official sites per se |
| 05:59 | <Caemyr> | but this is not the good topic for discussion |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | why pirate when you can use Linux |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | my pc boots in 20 seconds flat. |
| 05:59 | <Chris82> | Well I don't like pirated software |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | no |
| 05:59 | <Chris82> | I either buy it or use free software |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | not Linux |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | GNU/* |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | screw the kernel |
| 05:59 | <hylje> | GNU/bsd? |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | any kernel is good. |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | GNU/kFreeBSD |
| 05:59 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: did you buy TTDLX? |
| 05:59 | <Chris82> | I tried to use Sun OS once it looked really nifty, but nothing runs on it :D |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | GNU/NetBSD |
| 05:59 | <geoff_k> | Gekkko, i agree i have no need for cracked stuff, linux does everything *i* need which is quite a lot |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | GNU/Hurd |
| 05:59 | <Gekkko> | GNU/Mach |
| 05:59 | <geoff_k> | i can do far more on linux than any windows box will let me |
| 05:59 | <eekee> | I'm more presonally inclined to screw GNU than the kernel :D |
| 05:59 | <Chris82> | Caemyr: Don't say you have a pirated copy of TTDLX =O =O |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: do you realise how ancient that is |
| 06:00 | <Chris82> | Shame on you ;) |
| 06:00 | <Caemyr> | nope |
| 06:00 | <Caemyr> | i`m asking Gekkko:) |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | Caemyr: my TTDX is DOS version |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | :D |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | I'm just that hardcore. |
| 06:00 | <Chris82> | yeah I have the dos version on diskettes :D haha |
| 06:00 | <hylje> | i wouldnt really put abandonware under piracy |
| 06:00 | <Chris82> | good old times |
| 06:00 | <Caemyr> | when did you buy it?:) |
| 06:00 | [~] | geoff_k wants to try gnu/hurd, im in progress of making space to get the iso's |
| 06:00 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, pfft i'm got TTDO on floppy disk at home |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | like 8 years ago in a $5 rack :) |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:00 | <peter1138> | i'd put abandonware under 'imagination' and 'figment of' |
| 06:00 | <Caemyr> | you are a Linux user arent you?:) |
| 06:00 | <Sionide> | i've** |
| 06:00 | <Gekkko> | me? |
| 06:01 | <eekee> | Peter's technically right :/ |
| 06:01 | <Sionide> | woah let's not get into this debate though.. |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | Linux stasi 2.6.18.1 #1 Thu Feb 1 23:05:39 PUP 2007 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 06:01 | <Chris82> | stasi? |
| 06:01 | <Chris82> | that's your username? |
| 06:01 | <hylje> | box name |
| 06:01 | <Chris82> | lol |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | boxname |
| 06:01 | <Caemyr> | rotfl |
| 06:01 | <Chris82> | ah |
| 06:01 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, get a kernal upgrade :P |
| 06:01 | <Sionide> | Linux sphinx 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Thu Jun 7 20:19:32 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 06:01 | <Caemyr> | nice |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | :) |
| 06:01 | <Chris82> | good name for a non calling home box :D haha |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: make me |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:01 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, make install you? |
| 06:01 | <Sionide> | lol -_- |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | you wouldnt dare |
| 06:01 | <hylje> | make love --not war |
| 06:01 | <Gekkko> | I'll nmap you |
| 06:02 | <Gekkko> | xD |
| 06:02 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, i'll... traceroute you! zomg i'm such a l33t hacker :D |
| 06:02 | <hylje> | z0mg |
| 06:02 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: NOES |
| 06:02 | <TrueBrain> | I smell 2 bans coming up... |
| 06:02 | [~] | Sionide quietens down again |
| 06:02 | <Chris82> | anyway let's end this debate and say nothing is better or worse, Linux and Windows both have its advantages and disadvantages and tastes are different, so this would be a never ending story :D |
| 06:02 | <Gekkko> | You'll find my secret stash of furniture porn! |
| 06:02 | <hylje> | FURniture |
| 06:02 | <hylje> | your secret is out |
| 06:02 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: you can't win |
| 06:02 | <Sionide> | haha |
| 06:02 | <eekee> | hehehehehehe |
| 06:02 | <Gekkko> | only opensource can |
| 06:02 | <Chris82> | I don't intend to win. |
| 06:03 | <Chris82> | I want peace ^:D lol |
| 06:03 | <Gekkko> | as open source has more pros than cons |
| 06:03 | <hylje> | so you win.. by losing? |
| 06:03 | <Chris82> | not for me |
| 06:03 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: go back to the 70's |
| 06:03 | <Gekkko> | make love not war. |
| 06:03 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:03 | <Chris82> | too complicated and time consuming, the software that I need is not available, games don't run well |
| 06:03 | <Maedhros> | Gekkko: drop it, please... |
| 06:03 | <Chris82> | anyway I said let's end it |
| 06:03 | <Biff> | WAR=0 make love |
| 06:03 | <Gekkko> | but but but but |
| 06:03 | <Rubidium> | I'll guess I must get Gekkko's IP address and do a `iptables -A INPUT -s <Gekko's IP> -j MIRROR` |
| 06:03 | <Chris82> | lol |
| 06:03 | <Rubidium> | then he may try to hack me |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | nah |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | I'm a lazy sod. |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | and if you hack me and erase everything |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | I won't die. |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | I have backups |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | backing up a 100mb partition isnt hard |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | easily done daily. |
| 06:04 | <Caemyr> | dvd-rw is a wondrous device |
| 06:04 | <hylje> | 100mb? what? |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | you wanna hear insanity? |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | I use my pc in root. |
| 06:04 | <TheJosh> | how could I disable a button based on a patch optoin? |
| 06:04 | <hylje> | you pervert |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | no user accounts whatsoever |
| 06:04 | <Rubidium> | Gekkko: question is how long you keep those backups |
| 06:04 | <eekee> | oh ah, that's bad! lol |
| 06:04 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: its ok if you know what you do |
| 06:04 | <Gekkko> | Caemyr: I know what I do. |
| 06:04 | <hylje> | no it isnt |
| 06:05 | <Caemyr> | this is my point |
| 06:05 | <TrueBrain> | it is never okay |
| 06:05 | <TrueBrain> | software have bugs |
| 06:05 | <Gekkko> | noone gives me reason why running root is bad |
| 06:05 | <hylje> | humans are by definition stupid |
| 06:05 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: i`m better |
| 06:05 | <TrueBrain> | software as root user with bugs means trouble |
| 06:05 | <geoff_k> | lvm snapshots are good for backing up volumes |
| 06:05 | <eekee> | what, and computers aren't? :D |
| 06:05 | <Caemyr> | i`m running admin account on my win2k3 desk right now |
| 06:05 | <hylje> | well |
| 06:05 | <Gekkko> | TrueBrain: backups = no trouble |
| 06:05 | <hylje> | thats because you can't run windows as user |
| 06:05 | <Caemyr> | you can |
| 06:05 | <Chris82> | Sure you can |
| 06:05 | <TrueBrain> | Gekkko: depends how long you keep backups |
| 06:05 | <hylje> | why dont you then |
| 06:05 | <Gekkko> | running Windows as user is like killing yourself with a spoon |
| 06:06 | <Chris82> | but then it's as complicated as Linux to work with it :D lol |
| 06:06 | <Caemyr> | why should i? |
| 06:06 | <hylje> | hence you can't |
| 06:06 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: more like a chopstick |
| 06:06 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: Wine is perfect for playing games. |
| 06:06 | <hylje> | if its possible but not usable, it doesnt exist |
| 06:06 | <Chris82> | Is it better in the meantime? |
| 06:06 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: lawl |
| 06:06 | <Gekkko> | I ran NWN on a Voodoo3 using Mesa |
| 06:06 | <Chris82> | I have used it a few years ago the last time |
| 06:06 | <eekee> | haha perfect |
| 06:06 | <Gekkko> | thats 8mb |
| 06:06 | <geoff_k> | my fav games are opensource linux/windows so im happy |
| 06:06 | <Caemyr> | try to play online server with Pb |
| 06:06 | <Gekkko> | the minimum is 32mb |
| 06:06 | <Chris82> | do games like Oblivion work with it? |
| 06:06 | <TrueBrain> | hylje: you are opssible, but not usable, so you don't exist... cool! |
| 06:06 | <hylje> | TrueBrain: oh yes |
| 06:06 | <Gekkko> | geoff_k: Alpha Centauri :D |
| 06:06 | <Caemyr> | Punkbuster |
| 06:07 | <TrueBrain> | use Cedega |
| 06:07 | <Chris82> | or Supreme Commander? |
| 06:07 | <geoff_k> | i like freeciv |
| 06:07 | <hylje> | cedega sucks |
| 06:07 | <eekee> | I kinda miss Alpha Centaurii |
| 06:07 | <Gekkko> | geoff_k: I'm not fond of it |
| 06:07 | <TrueBrain> | cedega runs more games than wine |
| 06:07 | <Gekkko> | eekee: it has native Linux support |
| 06:07 | <TrueBrain> | at least it runs HL2 :) |
| 06:07 | <Gekkko> | I downloaded it recently |
| 06:07 | <Gekkko> | you can't buy it anywhere |
| 06:07 | <hylje> | wine gets better all the time, but it already runs all the games and little utilities i may need |
| 06:07 | <Gekkko> | I mean anywhere. |
| 06:07 | <Chris82> | didn't you have to pay for WINE anyway ? |
| 06:07 | <hylje> | so i dont really care |
| 06:07 | <geoff_k> | only this game and freeciv i ever play these days |
| 06:07 | <eekee> | Gekko: I know, looked for it on ebay once; nothing |
| 06:07 | <hylje> | Chris82: no |
| 06:07 | <Gekkko> | I <3 .torrents |
| 06:07 | <Caemyr> | hylje: but there are still plenty of games that they cant run |
| 06:08 | <hylje> | not that many really |
| 06:08 | <Caemyr> | also sometimes new revisions dont run games that earlier revisions could |
| 06:08 | <eekee> | I kinda prefer openttd to freeciv. I feel violent when I play most strategy games :D I'm kinda bipolar, I even find myself wantign to get too compettitive in OpenTTD |
| 06:08 | <Chris82> | Cedega: nVidia GeForce class video card (recommended) are they serious? |
| 06:09 | <geoff_k> | opensource roller coaster tycoon would be good, but its not got much potential for multiplayer |
| 06:09 | <Chris82> | =O What about ATI? lol |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: ATi is easier to install, but has lesser features |
| 06:09 | <hylje> | ati works, but at the moment ati drivers suck |
| 06:09 | <eekee> | Chris82: Yeah, nVidia has better opengl support as far as I gather |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | I have both nvidia and ati |
| 06:09 | <Chris82> | ewwww OpenGL *g* |
| 06:09 | <Caemyr> | ati driver sucks?:) |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | my nvidia 64mb is better than my ati 128mb |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 06:09 | <Zr40> | what's ewwww about OpenGL? |
| 06:09 | <Caemyr> | you should check it on windows |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | i get 16 fps on my ati |
| 06:09 | <Chris82> | that was a joke :p |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | 50 on my nvidia |
| 06:09 | <Gekkko> | its flawed. |
| 06:09 | <Caemyr> | ATI is better in dx than ogl |
| 06:09 | <hylje> | Chris82: you are succumbed to MS FUD about ogl |
| 06:10 | <Caemyr> | still has issues with ogl |
| 06:10 | <eekee> | Chris82: lol, whot, you meen using Windows drivers that disable OpenGL acceleration or something? :D |
| 06:10 | <Caemyr> | but nvidia drivers hack kernel so much on NT |
| 06:10 | <Chris82> | well on Vista ATI performance is great for D3D games, OpenGL sucks of course |
| 06:10 | <Caemyr> | you can get BSODs regularly |
| 06:10 | <Chris82> | anyway, is there a compatibility list for Cedega somwhere? |
| 06:10 | <Gekkko> | LOL BSOD |
| 06:10 | <hylje> | vista gfx driver architechture sucks |
| 06:10 | <Chris82> | BSOD? Never saw one on Vista, I already doubt they exist *g* |
| 06:10 | <Gekkko> | http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/areir/26714/315686/0/bsod.jpg |
| 06:10 | <Caemyr> | Chris82 start with opengl sucking on vista, big time |
| 06:10 | <Gekkko> | look at that |
| 06:10 | <Chris82> | Well, it makes things slower that's true |
| 06:11 | <Gekkko> | tis amusing |
| 06:11 | <Chris82> | but it also reduces crashes |
| 06:11 | <Caemyr> | Chris: nope |
| 06:11 | <Chris82> | for me it does |
| 06:11 | <Caemyr> | comparing to XP they moved whole Dx to usermode |
| 06:11 | <Caemyr> | from km |
| 06:11 | <Gekkko> | http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/areir/26714/315686/0/bsod.jpg <-- BSOD lolol |
| 06:11 | <Chris82> | The Catalyst drivers and Logitech webcam drivers causes massive bluescreens on XP |
| 06:11 | <Chris82> | they don't do on Vista |
| 06:11 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: in your dream |
| 06:11 | <Caemyr> | :) |
| 06:11 | <Zr40> | Chris82: then why am I not getting them? |
| 06:11 | <Caemyr> | Nvidia drivers=yes |
| 06:11 | <Chris82> | anyway, I am searching for a compatibility list for Cedega |
| 06:12 | <Caemyr> | not ati |
| 06:12 | <Chris82> | I wanted to check if my games run with it so I can test it |
| 06:13 | <eekee> | Chris82: check transgaming.org |
| 06:13 | <geoff_k> | another game i'd like is something like age of Empires II on linux, few patches to something like that i'd be addicted |
| 06:13 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: I do believe your XP was screwed over by the confederacy |
| 06:13 | <Ailure> | [13:09] <Gekkko> http://briefcase.pathfinder.gr/download/areir/26714/315686/0/bsod.jpg <-- BSOD lolol |
| 06:13 | <eekee> | (or .net <_< it's been a while) |
| 06:13 | <Ailure> | I assume that's some kind of screensaver? |
| 06:13 | <Ailure> | xD |
| 06:13 | <Chris82> | (12 months; 55 USD annually; one month free) =O |
| 06:13 | <Gekkko> | Ailure: no, just a superimposed error for an error |
| 06:13 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:13 | <Chris82> | do I read that wrongfully? or do I have to pay 55 USD a year to use it |
| 06:13 | <Ailure> | ah |
| 06:13 | <Gekkko> | but there is a bsod screensaver |
| 06:13 | <Ailure> | oh well |
| 06:13 | <Gekkko> | that's funny |
| 06:13 | <Ailure> | lunctime! |
| 06:13 | <hylje> | you can pirate it just fine |
| 06:13 | <Zr40> | Chris82: no. You pay $55 for updates |
| 06:13 | <Gekkko> | looks like your pc rebooting over and over |
| 06:14 | <Chris82> | What is the price to initially buy it then? |
| 06:14 | <eekee> | yeah.. I... uh... foud wine + cracks to run several games that cedega wouldn't <_<; |
| 06:14 | <hylje> | wine is better than cedega |
| 06:14 | <Zr40> | Chris82: $15 (three months of updates) |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:15 | <hylje> | all that's in for cedega is the proprietary copyprot support |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | here's something fun |
| 06:15 | <Chris82> | That's a bit expensive. |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | google crack.exe |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | download it |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | run it in wine |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | amusing results |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | seeing a trojan cave into itself |
| 06:15 | <eekee> | haha |
| 06:15 | <hylje> | but wine is doing the lower-level approach, eventually supporting native copyprot |
| 06:15 | <hylje> | :o |
| 06:15 | <Chris82> | Buying cedega doesn't really make sense imho, you can simply buy an OEM XP to play games as well :p lol |
| 06:15 | <Gekkko> | HOW THE HELL DO I UMOUNT A DAMN IPOD |
| 06:15 | <hylje> | eject it |
| 06:16 | <Chris82> | iPod is Mac optimized didn't you know :p |
| 06:16 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: I assume you haven't rebooted yet |
| 06:16 | <Gekkko> | i did |
| 06:16 | <Chris82> | and it's still there? |
| 06:16 | <eekee> | Gekkko: Just reboot :/ umounting is one of Linuxes weakest points, IMHO |
| 06:16 | <eekee> | What????? |
| 06:16 | <TheJosh> | does gtkpod have a remove thingo? |
| 06:16 | <hylje> | Chris82: but that involves rebooting all the time |
| 06:16 | <Gekkko> | dont think so |
| 06:16 | <Gekkko> | eekee: i did reboot |
| 06:16 | <eekee> | dayyyum |
| 06:16 | <Chris82> | You mean XP involves rebooting? |
| 06:16 | <Gekkko> | lol #openttd is better than ##linux on freenode |
| 06:16 | <Chris82> | since when do I need to reboot for games |
| 06:16 | <Gekkko> | you dont get kicked for asking amusingly noobish questions |
| 06:16 | <TheJosh> | ipods have big cahces on them. if you transfer songs, it returns immedietly, but is still transferrign |
| 06:17 | <eekee> | Not necessarily. VMware or Qemu or soemthing like that may help, but drivers may be an issue |
| 06:17 | <Caemyr> | rebooting? |
| 06:17 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 06:17 | <Caemyr> | years ago maybe |
| 06:17 | <TheJosh> | Gekko: have you tried hacking? |
| 06:17 | <Gekkko> | TheJosh: the little spinny thing on it isnt doing the spinny thing |
| 06:17 | <Gekkko> | TheJosh: using mtab |
| 06:17 | <Gekkko> | ? |
| 06:17 | <TheJosh> | poor spinny thing |
| 06:17 | <TheJosh> | i feel sorry for it |
| 06:17 | <Gekkko> | why |
| 06:17 | <TheJosh> | it cant spin |
| 06:17 | <Gekkko> | because it's an apple gif? |
| 06:17 | <Gekkko> | I've hacked ipods muchly. |
| 06:17 | <eekee> | Gekkko: do you have an automounter running? |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | eekee: nope |
| 06:18 | <eekee> | ok |
| 06:18 | <TheJosh> | killall * |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | I'm too hardcore for udev |
| 06:18 | <TheJosh> | rm -rf / |
| 06:18 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 06:18 | <TheJosh> | init 6 |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | killall -9 * |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | lol init 6 |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | teh sex right there |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | teh sex. |
| 06:18 | <Rubidium> | kill -9 -1 |
| 06:18 | <eekee> | lawl |
| 06:18 | <Chris82> | well SupCom has bugs with Cedega and Oblivion doesn't work at all, checking WINE :D |
| 06:18 | <TheJosh> | sudo rm -rf ./ |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | OH FFS |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | I KNOW WHY |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | it's busybox mount |
| 06:18 | <Gekkko> | that makes me angered in so many ways |
| 06:18 | <TheJosh> | ! |
| 06:18 | <eekee> | *blinkus?* |
| 06:18 | <hylje> | enjoy your uid=0 |
| 06:19 | <SmatZ> | :) |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | I'm gonna nuke it |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | i've got normal mount compiled |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | just gotta install it |
| 06:19 | <TheJosh> | NUKE IT |
| 06:19 | <TheJosh> | dban |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | wait |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | i lied,. |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | I don't have mount |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | shit |
| 06:19 | <hylje> | . |
| 06:19 | <Chris82> | Oblivion doesn't work with WINE as well |
| 06:19 | <TheJosh> | d.*s boot and nuke |
| 06:19 | <Chris82> | pity :D |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | pity? |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | it's a crappy game. |
| 06:19 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 06:20 | <Chris82> | I like it |
| 06:20 | <Gekkko> | Real men don't play games. |
| 06:20 | <Gekkko> | "games" |
| 06:20 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:20 | <Chris82> | lol |
| 06:20 | <eekee> | real men are scary |
| 06:20 | <Caemyr> | dont play "crappy" games |
| 06:20 | <Chris82> | real men watch porn instead ? |
| 06:20 | <Gekkko> | thats why i used " " |
| 06:20 | <hylje> | oblivion barely worked on windows :\ |
| 06:20 | <Gekkko> | real men watch porn while play OTTD while compiling |
| 06:20 | <Chris82> | well it works fine for me |
| 06:20 | <Caemyr> | define barely |
| 06:20 | <eekee> | lololol Gekkko |
| 06:20 | <Gekkko> | NWN2 at 17fps rocks my sox |
| 06:20 | <hylje> | memoryleaked like crazy |
| 06:21 | <Caemyr> | nwn sux |
| 06:21 | <TrueBrain> | UT2003 works with Wine, nuff for me :) |
| 06:21 | <Chris82> | well that has nothing to do with Windows |
| 06:21 | <Chris82> | that's a bug in the game |
| 06:21 | <hylje> | it still didnt quite work |
| 06:21 | <Caemyr> | poor programming |
| 06:21 | <hylje> | stop defending your poor platform |
| 06:21 | <Chris82> | yeah the first version was ugly, but the patches fixed it |
| 06:21 | <eekee> | SL memory leaks like steenk |
| 06:21 | <Caemyr> | who is poor here? |
| 06:21 | <eekee> | Me! |
| 06:21 | <eekee> | sorry <_<; |
| 06:21 | [~] | Chris82 gives money :D |
| 06:21 | <Caemyr> | begging for drivers |
| 06:21 | <Gekkko> | you better |
| 06:21 | <Chris82> | :p |
| 06:21 | <eekee> | Yay! <3 *hugs* XD |
| 06:22 | <Chris82> | I go play a real game now |
| 06:22 | <Chris82> | OTTD that is :D |
| 06:22 | <eekee> | :D |
| 06:22 | <Gekkko> | Dual monitors |
| 06:22 | <SmatZ> | :D |
| 06:22 | <Gekkko> | removes the need to "multitask" |
| 06:22 | <Gekkko> | also makes a nice playing field for OTTD |
| 06:22 | <Caemyr> | at least we can agree to one thing |
| 06:22 | <Caemyr> | OTTD rox |
| 06:22 | <Gekkko> | 2048 x 768 |
| 06:22 | <Chris82> | yeah |
| 06:23 | [~] | eekee refrains from comments abotu Windows multitasking :D |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | can see an entire map |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:23 | <Chris82> | OTTD is bringing the people together and works on every platform :D |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | eekee: I HATE IT |
| 06:23 | <Caemyr> | please refrain |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | SO VERY VERY MUCH |
| 06:23 | <SmatZ> | :-) |
| 06:23 | <hylje> | i use ottd on a 800x600 window |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | that's one reason I use Linux |
| 06:23 | <hylje> | out of a 1600x1200 desktop |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | it supports multiple monitors properly |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | Windows chokes at the concept |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | and shits up the walls |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | gets set loose in a padded cell |
| 06:23 | <Gekkko> | and still finds a way to kill itself |
| 06:23 | <hylje> | which is for the record larger than Gekkko's |
| 06:23 | <eekee> | hylje: I play in 800x600 & in 1680x1050, depending on whether I'm in bed or at the desktop lol |
| 06:23 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 06:24 | <Chris82> | try http://realtimesoft.com/multimon/ on windows |
| 06:24 | <Chris82> | that's a nifty tool |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | hylje: it's one monitor |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | and it isnt "bigger" |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | the resolution is higher |
| 06:24 | <hylje> | it is |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | therefore on a screen, it's smaller |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | :P |
| 06:24 | <hylje> | resolution defines the viewing area |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | yes |
| 06:24 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: Linux feels Win just behind its back, this is why you penguinistas get so aggresive about it |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | but its not seen bigger |
| 06:24 | <Gekkko> | its showing more |
| 06:25 | <Chris82> | I agree with you about that Caemyr :) |
| 06:25 | <Gekkko> | Caemyr: Linux has nothing to do with my argument |
| 06:25 | <Chris82> | but Mac users are even worse |
| 06:25 | <Gekkko> | I don't give a flaming shit about the kernel, I <3 GNU |
| 06:25 | <Gekkko> | www.badvista.org |
| 06:25 | <hylje> | technically superior OS zealots are generally bitter |
| 06:25 | <Chris82> | It's really seldom that I hear Windows users bashing "others", I can't say that for many Maccies |
| 06:25 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: XP had the similar ambience when it appeared |
| 06:25 | <hylje> | windows users are apathetic |
| 06:26 | <Caemyr> | hylje: linux users even more |
| 06:26 | <Gekkko> | hylje: not true >_> |
| 06:26 | <Gekkko> | they bash people |
| 06:26 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:26 | <hylje> | linux (and mac) people tend to be more aware of their stuff |
| 06:26 | <Caemyr> | not true |
| 06:26 | <eekee> | Yeah, the average Windows user may be pleasantly apathetic, btu there are enough... eh... |
| 06:26 | <Caemyr> | especially for Mac users |
| 06:26 | <hylje> | "omg, this sucks" |
| 06:26 | <Chris82> | http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista.... they should go to RIAA and complain about DRM |
| 06:27 | <Chris82> | not to Microsoft |
| 06:27 | <hylje> | its not like they havent tried |
| 06:27 | <hylje> | riaa just wants their monies |
| 06:27 | <hylje> | not particularly happy customers |
| 06:27 | <Caemyr> | who doesnt |
| 06:27 | <hylje> | open source? :p |
| 06:27 | <hylje> | consulting business moreso than intellectual property |
| 06:27 | <Zr40> | "Even when you legally buy Vista, you don't own it." <-- that's the case for XP, 2000, 98, 95, 3.11, ... |
| 06:27 | <Caemyr> | like red hat? |
| 06:27 | <Chris82> | How does Open Source enable you to listen to music that is otherwise DRM protected? |
| 06:27 | <Chris82> | that's no solution :p |
| 06:28 | <eekee> | Caemyr: people who don't think that MORE MORE MORE MORE is the only way? In other words, sane people? |
| 06:28 | <Chris82> | unless you pidate the Music of course |
| 06:28 | <hylje> | you crack the DRM usually legall |
| 06:28 | <hylje> | y |
| 06:28 | <Chris82> | but I don't want to do that, I'd rather fight for fair prices |
| 06:28 | <Caemyr> | eekee: not |
| 06:28 | <Chris82> | I mean 1 USD for one track is insane |
| 06:28 | <TheJosh> | Gekkko: work it out? |
| 06:28 | <Caemyr> | but when i hear someone trying to convince me |
| 06:28 | <TheJosh> | me off |
| 06:28 | |-| | TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] |
| 06:28 | <Caemyr> | that running closed source app is bad because it limits my freedom |
| 06:29 | <Caemyr> | i want to smack such person so hard he gets into orbit |
| 06:29 | <geoff_k> | before we know it linux could well be packed with drm |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | I hate how cd's dont automount |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | thats the only thing i hate |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | yes udev supports that |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | but i dont support udev |
| 06:29 | <hylje> | Gekkko: set up udev+hal |
| 06:29 | <hylje> | enjoy your technical inferiority, and dont whine about it |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | oh wait |
| 06:29 | <hylje> | you got your choice |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | it does automount |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | holy crap |
| 06:29 | <eekee> | i'm not quite that evangelical any more. |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | i dont even have udev |
| 06:29 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 06:29 | <hylje> | Caemyr: you get inherently more choices to yourself with open source |
| 06:30 | <geoff_k> | watch out for trusted computing when that tech finaly kicks in, sounds scarey |
| 06:30 | <hylje> | Caemyr: closed source is very much lock-in, and that's not always fun |
| 06:30 | <Caemyr> | closed-source is one of those choices |
| 06:30 | <hylje> | the fun thing about that is the lock in |
| 06:30 | <Caemyr> | and any attempt to limit it is limiting my freedom |
| 06:30 | <hylje> | you have much less choices then |
| 06:30 | <Caemyr> | no |
| 06:31 | <Caemyr> | i can run open source apps on windows as well |
| 06:31 | <hylje> | but closed source apps lock you to windows |
| 06:31 | <Caemyr> | no one locks me to windows |
| 06:31 | <Caemyr> | its my consent choice |
| 06:32 | <hylje> | well it *is* a choice to limit later choices.. |
| 06:32 | <Zr40> | Caemyr: so you run your financial administration on Windows, your games on Windows, your whatever on Windows |
| 06:32 | <eekee> | your consent choice to use things that are only available for Windows? That's the lock-in ;) |
| 06:32 | <Zr40> | then you decide to use Linux |
| 06:32 | <Zr40> | or Mac OS |
| 06:32 | <Zr40> | or BSD |
| 06:32 | <Caemyr> | yes |
| 06:32 | <Caemyr> | i could use linux |
| 06:32 | <Caemyr> | for everything i need my pc for |
| 06:32 | <Zr40> | you're still bound to Windows because of the financial administration software, the games and the whatever |
| 06:32 | <Caemyr> | i dont play newest games |
| 06:32 | <Caemyr> | erm |
| 06:33 | <Caemyr> | what financial administration software? |
| 06:33 | <hylje> | taxen |
| 06:33 | <Zr40> | <Zr40> Caemyr: so you run your financial administration on Windows, your games on Windows, your whatever on Windows |
| 06:33 | <Zr40> | that is an example. |
| 06:33 | <Zr40> | I don't know what you actually run |
| 06:33 | <Caemyr> | i can count my taxes on whatever os i choose |
| 06:34 | <Caemyr> | Zr40: this is why i support ReactOS |
| 06:34 | [~] | Chris82 repeats |
| 06:34 | <Chris82> | anyway let's end this debate and say nothing is better or worse, Linux and Windows both have its advantages and disadvantages and tastes are different, so this would be a never ending story :D |
| 06:34 | <Chris82> | ;) |
| 06:34 | <Caemyr> | again |
| 06:34 | <Caemyr> | freedom is the possibility to run everything as YOU want |
| 06:34 | <Caemyr> | you want only opensource? |
| 06:34 | <Caemyr> | why not |
| 06:35 | <Caemyr> | you want other combination? please do |
| 06:35 | <Zr40> | Caemyr: the problem with closed source software is that if you want to change the OS you're using, you can't use the closed source software anymore |
| 06:35 | <Caemyr> | forcing someone to run only opensource is as bad, as forcing to run only closed source |
| 06:35 | |-| | SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 06:35 | <hylje> | your logic has the flaw that closed source forces a certain combination, in most cases |
| 06:35 | <Zr40> | Caemyr: I'm not forcing anything, nor do I want to |
| 06:35 | <geoff_k> | im 100% linux user but i'd windows has far better friendly office tools, and works good i large scale office desktop environment |
| 06:35 | <Caemyr> | hylje: for now |
| 06:35 | <Gekkko> | I'm back |
| 06:35 | <Caemyr> | this is why WINE is being done |
| 06:35 | <Gekkko> | I <3 Abiword and Gnumeric |
| 06:36 | <Caemyr> | or dosbox |
| 06:36 | <Caemyr> | or ReactOS |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | don't need Microsoft Bloatware |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | nor Linux Bloatware |
| 06:36 | <Chris82> | argh I hate it when people release patches, and don't compile them to find a simple missing ; :D lol |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | just pure miniature open source word processor |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | OMFG SOMEONE MIGHT HACK MY WORD PROCESSOR |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | please no Mr. Hacker |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | dont look at the source |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | OH NOES HE DID. |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | Mr Aspergers is here to save the day |
| 06:36 | <Gekkko> | for no apparent reason. |
| 06:36 | <eekee> | hehehehehe |
| 06:36 | <Caemyr> | as i told before |
| 06:37 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: wtf? |
| 06:37 | <Caemyr> | i heard some open source fanboys bashing WINE and ROS |
| 06:37 | <eekee> | yeah some will |
| 06:37 | <Caemyr> | because they think those projects harm opensource |
| 06:37 | <Zr40> | Caemyr: their logic is flawed. |
| 06:37 | <eekee> | it's the Firefox fanbois that make me laught the most |
| 06:37 | <Caemyr> | becasue they make people perceive closed source apps as not that bad |
| 06:37 | <Caemyr> | Zr40 |
| 06:37 | <Caemyr> | yes it is |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | I love Opera though |
| 06:38 | <Caemyr> | Gekkko: i second to that |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | The only reason I believe it's not open source is because it's using QT commercial |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | as QT Open Source isnt the best thign I've seen |
| 06:38 | <geoff_k> | i like opera but its seems to have issues with flash on me so i don't use it |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | I hate dillo |
| 06:38 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: as it happens, the company I work for uses Qt |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | i'd rather use elinks |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | which i do use |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | rather often. |
| 06:38 | <geoff_k> | dillo is aweful |
| 06:38 | <Caemyr> | Opera <3 |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: I love how KDE looks |
| 06:38 | <Gekkko> | I love KDE apps |
| 06:39 | <Gekkko> | I hate KDE libs |
| 06:39 | <eekee> | I'm using Firefox simply as my current Brower of Least Annoyance, & it's a pain, mew |
| 06:39 | <Caemyr> | espeacially page content blocking |
| 06:39 | <Gekkko> | I hate KDE WM |
| 06:39 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: Qt Open Source isn't any different from the commercial version, it's just the difference of support |
| 06:39 | <Caemyr> | i have most of the flash ads blocked out |
| 06:39 | <eekee> | KDE WM you dont' have to use, but the libs I dunno |
| 06:39 | <hylje> | Zr40: and viral licence |
| 06:39 | <Zr40> | hylje: that too. |
| 06:39 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: well, I wouldnt know since I don't use commercial version |
| 06:39 | <Gekkko> | :P |
| 06:39 | <Gekkko> | what's the viral licence |
| 06:39 | <hylje> | gpl |
| 06:39 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:39 | <geoff_k> | i use flash for my own chat clet on my own chat server otherwise i'd not be using it |
| 06:39 | <geoff_k> | client* |
| 06:39 | <hylje> | you link against GPL, you better comply with it |
| 06:40 | <hylje> | hence if you link against GPL Qt, your app needs to be GPL too |
| 06:40 | <Gekkko> | LGPL is BSD-esque |
| 06:40 | <Zr40> | hylje: but only if you release the app |
| 06:40 | <hylje> | that was an example |
| 06:40 | <hylje> | but yes |
| 06:40 | <hylje> | compliance is needed tho |
| 06:41 | <eekee> | I like Torvald's policy for the kernel: GPL 2, & GPL 2 only, none of this letting Stallman dictate your future policy, for all he's done for OSS |
| 06:41 | <hylje> | torvalds' |
| 06:41 | <eekee> | lol, I like YouTube & other flash-based video sites, that's the only reason I have it |
| 06:42 | <eekee> | hylje: ah yeah, ty |
| 06:42 | <Zr40> | eekee: that's incorrect. Torvalds chose for GPL2-only because you can't be sure what's in GPL3. For it might allow, in theory, unfree things. |
| 06:42 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 06:42 | |-| | Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 06:42 | <Caemyr> | we are still waiting for Sun |
| 06:42 | <eekee> | Zr40: He's sticking with GPL-2 in the face of the current GPL-3 |
| 06:42 | <Caemyr> | if Sun goes gpl3... |
| 06:42 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: how many drafts have there been of gpl3 |
| 06:42 | <geoff_k> | there is a lot of worry about GPLv3 and possibility of DRM |
| 06:42 | <Zr40> | eekee: because it's not been finalized yet. |
| 06:42 | <Gekkko> | how many appendings and edition |
| 06:43 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:43 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: I know. But when the kernel was released, there were no GPLv3 drafts yet |
| 06:43 | <eekee> | Zr40: no, he's written a couple of essays sayign that while he doesn't like DRM, he doesn't feel it's his right to limit end-users choice in the matter. |
| 06:43 | <Zr40> | eekee: did he write them before or after the first v3 draft? |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | maybe torvalds should make a GPL-compatible LPL |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | pfft |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | L-GPL |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | Linux - General Public Licence |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | TGPL? |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | even easier. |
| 06:44 | <eekee> | Zr40: ugh.. okay, I didn't check that properly, but I kinda assumed after. Was there anythign in the first draft that might have softenned it? |
| 06:44 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:45 | <geoff_k> | if linux give drm in furture i will start supporting gnu/hurd, im looking at starting anytime i want to be prepared |
| 06:45 | <eekee> | I think if your license is a public license there's no need to add the general tag |
| 06:45 | <Gekkko> | geoff_k: I plan to use Hurd as soon as it's stable |
| 06:46 | <geoff_k> | Gekkko, same here as much as possible |
| 06:46 | <Zr40> | eekee: v3 introduced limitations on DRM. v2 doesn't mention it, as that didn't exist back in 1991. |
| 06:46 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: so you mean you cant use GPL with DRM products? |
| 06:46 | <Gekkko> | I support that. |
| 06:46 | <geoff_k> | i haven't looked at it yet but i agree with its policy |
| 06:46 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: I didn't state that. |
| 06:46 | <Gekkko> | I'd support that* |
| 06:46 | <eekee> | geoff_k: DRM could technically cover companies in-house security systems for their in-house development, as I understand it. That's causing at least a little worry about the gpl3 |
| 06:46 | <hylje> | Gekkko: more like DRM'd linux kernel |
| 06:47 | <geoff_k> | yeah eveil stuff |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | explain exactly. |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | it disallows DRM |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | or forces it |
| 06:47 | <hylje> | its open source, but you can't modify it |
| 06:47 | <geoff_k> | thisd says everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | geoff_k: one problem is GNU/Hurd is GNU's kernel |
| 06:47 | <Zr40> | hylje: that's nonsense. If it's open-source, you can just remove the DRM parts. |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | meaning it will be gpl3 |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | so if it goes all eww on us... |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | we don't really have any place toog |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | to go* |
| 06:47 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:47 | <geoff_k> | yeah true |
| 06:48 | <hylje> | Zr40: if the drm parts are not in the kernel, but in the hardware, TCP / TiVo style.. |
| 06:48 | <Gekkko> | but if the kernel you have works, why change |
| 06:48 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 06:48 | <Zr40> | hylje: don't buy it :) |
| 06:48 | <hylje> | for now |
| 06:48 | <eekee> | Zr40: I'm not seeing what difference the first draft has here... I got the impression Torvalds read a draft or more than one before writing, but I'm not certain. His statements were general, he doesn't like limiting users freedom, even their freedom to use DRM-capable apps if desired |
| 06:49 | <Zr40> | eekee: I was referring to the current kernel license, pointing out the reasons for being GPLv2 *only* |
| 06:49 | <Gekkko> | hmm |
| 06:50 | <eekee> | Zr40: yeah... I think we might have been talking slightly at cross-purposes, I'm sure it's not important |
| 06:50 | <Gekkko> | I like how GPLv2 will stay valid even if GPLv3 comes into force |
| 06:50 | <eekee> | well that's good |
| 06:50 | <Gekkko> | is there a preamble that says that GPLv3 doesnt automatically cover GPLv2? |
| 06:50 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: GPLv2 allows the choice of GPLv2 or any later version |
| 06:50 | <Biff> | Zr40: wrong |
| 06:51 | <Gekkko> | Isnt GPLv2 and v3 counted at seperate entities? |
| 06:51 | <Gekkko> | like BSD vs GPL |
| 06:51 | <eekee> | Oh, my... oh heck, not a worry as such, but a teeny bit of a concern, is that the core GNU tools will disalow GPL2 use |
| 06:51 | <Zr40> | Biff: explain? |
| 06:51 | <Biff> | but some software is licensed under "GPLv2 or later" |
| 06:51 | <Biff> | like some parts of the linux kernel |
| 06:51 | <Biff> | but not all of it |
| 06:51 | <Gekkko> | eekee: I love to abuse my licence rights |
| 06:51 | <Gekkko> | I plan to make GNU BSD |
| 06:51 | <Gekkko> | lolol |
| 06:51 | <Biff> | which is why it will be very hard to get the linux-kernel to GPLv3 |
| 06:52 | <Gekkko> | the transition will take many years |
| 06:52 | <Gekkko> | an audit |
| 06:52 | <Gekkko> | :) |
| 06:52 | <eekee> | Biff: the standard GPLv2 explicitly includes a clause that any software licensed under this may also be used under the terms of a later version. That's the part Torvalds didnt' like |
| 06:52 | <Zr40> | eekee: as Biff pointed out, that's not true |
| 06:52 | <eekee> | Gekkko: I do every time I use the nvidia driver, mew |
| 06:52 | <Gekkko> | eekee: I don't like that either |
| 06:52 | <Gekkko> | that's odd. |
| 06:52 | <Zr40> | eekee: the GPLv2 *suggests* the option, but you have to explitly state 'or any later version' |
| 06:52 | <eekee> | gods... *rereads the gplv2 |
| 06:52 | <Zr40> | eekee: section 9 |
| 06:52 | <eekee> | Oh! hum |
| 06:52 | <eekee> | tyvm |
| 06:53 | <Gekkko> | why dont they just cut that option out |
| 06:53 | <Gekkko> | GPL- |
| 06:53 | <Gekkko> | noi |
| 06:53 | <Gekkko> | GPL= |
| 06:53 | <Biff> | eekee: Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the Program |
| 06:53 | <Biff> | specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any |
| 06:53 | <Biff> | later version", you have the option of following the terms and conditions |
| 06:53 | <Biff> | either of that version or of any later version published by the Free |
| 06:53 | <Gekkko> | not GPL=> |
| 06:53 | <Biff> | Software Foundation. |
| 06:53 | <Gekkko> | :) |
| 06:53 | <Chris82> | Peter1138 are you here? |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | Biff: I think the culprit is 'How to Apply These Terms to Your New Programs' |
| 06:54 | <Biff> | i think about 40% of the linux kernel is licensed under GPLv2 or later |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | Biff: take a look at the fixed-width text, third paragraph |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | second* |
| 06:54 | <eekee> | Oh great! I'd been under the wrong impression for 10 years, hehe |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 |
| 06:54 | <Zr40> | of the License, or (at your option) any later version. |
| 06:55 | <Biff> | the problem is that alot of people have contributed to the linux kernel, and everyone has to agree to change the license |
| 06:55 | <Biff> | Zr40: yup, thats a suggested text you use in your program |
| 06:55 | <Biff> | but alot of programs doesnt use that |
| 06:55 | <Zr40> | Biff: I guess most just copy/paste that |
| 06:56 | <Biff> | true, but as i said, alot of the kernel is explicit version 2 |
| 06:56 | <Biff> | which is a problem |
| 06:56 | <Zr40> | Biff: actually, the whole kernel is v2-only |
| 06:56 | <Zr40> | the LICENSE file states so |
| 06:56 | <Biff> | not true |
| 06:56 | <Biff> | the kernel as a whole is GPLv2 |
| 06:56 | <Biff> | but parts of the kernel is GPLv2 or later |
| 06:57 | <Zr40> | then the kernel is in conflict with itself |
| 06:57 | <Biff> | not at all |
| 06:57 | <Gekkko> | gah |
| 06:57 | <Zr40> | licensing the whole as GPLv2-only removes the 'or later' option |
| 06:57 | <Gekkko> | they need a Group GPL |
| 06:57 | <Biff> | for instance if i submit a kernel patch and it gets accepted, it is my copyrighted work, which i license under for example GPLv2 or later |
| 06:57 | <Gekkko> | that if you contribute, the leader is in control of what you submit |
| 06:57 | <Gekkko> | control to an extent |
| 06:57 | <Gekkko> | not ownership rights |
| 06:57 | <Biff> | Zr40: you can still extract the parts of the kernel which is GPLv2 or later |
| 06:57 | |-| | Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] |
| 06:57 | <Biff> | the original writer still has copyright |
| 06:58 | |-| | SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd |
| 06:58 | <Gekkko> | Intellectual property |
| 06:58 | <Biff> | and only he can accept a change in license |
| 06:58 | <Biff> | this is unlike GNU software, where you give ownership to GNU |
| 06:58 | <Biff> | so GNU software can change license whenever they want |
| 06:58 | <Zr40> | Biff: as I said, the kernel license conflicts with the GPLv2+ parts |
| 06:59 | <Ailure> | http://www.tt-forums.net//files/little_trunley_transport_25th_apr_1951_926.png |
| 06:59 | <Ailure> | ok this amuses me somehow |
| 06:59 | <Zr40> | Ailure: I've had something similar. |
| 06:59 | <Zr40> | Ailure: do you happen to be using Mac OS X? |
| 06:59 | <hylje> | what |
| 07:01 | <eekee> | *giggle* |
| 07:01 | <Ailure> | no |
| 07:01 | <Ailure> | what make you think I do? |
| 07:01 | <Zr40> | because it happened to me there :) |
| 07:01 | <Ailure> | oh |
| 07:01 | <Ailure> | the bug didn't happen to me |
| 07:01 | <Zr40> | anyway, something went wrong with the standard grfs |
| 07:02 | <Ailure> | I was just copying and pasting teh url from a thread |
| 07:02 | <Ailure> | where that did happen to someone |
| 07:02 | <Ailure> | american slopes :p |
| 07:02 | <Zr40> | deleting and replacing them solved it |
| 07:02 | <Zr40> | they're actually the language icons in the server browser |
| 07:02 | <Gekkko> | oh that looks so cool |
| 07:03 | <Gekkko> | wheres the lines to show the land plots |
| 07:03 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 07:03 | <Ailure> | yeah |
| 07:03 | <Ailure> | but most of the time |
| 07:03 | <Ailure> | people just go with the international icon when they create a server |
| 07:04 | <Ailure> | heh |
| 07:04 | <Ailure> | Most of the time, people use the UK flag to signify English |
| 07:04 | <Ailure> | or UK/American flag |
| 07:05 | <Gekkko> | make an Australian flag |
| 07:05 | <Gekkko> | or ill slap you |
| 07:05 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 07:05 | <eekee> | hehe] |
| 07:06 | <Gekkko> | try doing that in 12x24 pixels |
| 07:06 | <Gekkko> | well |
| 07:06 | <Gekkko> | it's actually possible :o |
| 07:06 | <Gekkko> | if i made it would it be implemented? |
| 07:06 | <Gekkko> | or would they say "You're a minority!! GO AWAY" |
| 07:10 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10235 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix: the 32bpp-anim blitter repainted pixel color 0, which is transparency and therefor should never be repainted (spotted by Rubidium) |
| 07:10 | <eekee> | Hey is there a small-screen branch of openttd? I seem to recall seeing a screenshot of it on a PDA |
| 07:11 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 07:11 | <Caemyr> | ottd on pda/mobile |
| 07:12 | <Caemyr> | this is dangerous |
| 07:12 | <Rubidium> | eekee: there isn't |
| 07:12 | <eekee> | ok fair enough |
| 07:12 | <eekee> | lawl Caemyr :) |
| 07:12 | <SmatZ> | eekee: I saw that at some website, not at official ottd pages |
| 07:12 | <eekee> | ya |
| 07:12 | <Caemyr> | think about it |
| 07:12 | <eekee> | think? what is this word? |
| 07:13 | <Gekkko> | eekee: PalmTTD |
| 07:13 | <eekee> | :D |
| 07:13 | <Caemyr> | this may turn into disease |
| 07:13 | <Gekkko> | www.esoftinteractive.com |
| 07:13 | <Gekkko> | I have it |
| 07:13 | <eekee> | ohhhh! |
| 07:13 | <Caemyr> | to think |
| 07:13 | <eekee> | yes.... |
| 07:13 | <Gekkko> | PPC and Palm |
| 07:13 | <eekee> | cool 'nuff |
| 07:14 | <Gekkko> | GAH |
| 07:14 | <Gekkko> | 0.5.2 for PPC |
| 07:14 | <Gekkko> | 0.4.8 for Palm still |
| 07:14 | <Gekkko> | basterd. |
| 07:14 | <eekee> | How did I guess 0.4.8? |
| 07:14 | <Gekkko> | it's a nighly too |
| 07:15 | <eekee> | Anyhow, my Palm's an m515, last of the PalmOS4 ones & a 16MHz Dragon CPU |
| 07:15 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 07:15 | <Gekkko> | doubt it would run |
| 07:16 | <Gekkko> | requires 8mb of heap |
| 07:16 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 07:16 | |-| | blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 07:16 | <eekee> | and.. my palm currently has 6.6MB of free space, hehe |
| 07:17 | <eekee> | I think my non-essential expenditure this year is going to go on another Z or an iPaq |
| 07:18 | |-| | maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 07:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | omg... what a load of crap in this backlog... |
| 07:18 | <eekee> | yeah lol. sorry |
| 07:19 | <Gekkko> | eekee: Do not buy a PDA |
| 07:19 | <Gekkko> | google UMPC |
| 07:19 | <Gekkko> | and google Folio |
| 07:19 | [~] | eekee sighs, & does so |
| 07:20 | [~] | eekee facepalms "NEW NEW NEW!!!" "COME SEE, BUY NOW! YOU LIKE, VERY MUCH!" |
| 07:21 | <hylje> | umpc :\ |
| 07:21 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 07:21 | |-| | [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd |
| 07:21 | <Gekkko> | I have no opinion on UMPC |
| 07:22 | <Gekkko> | I prefer pico-itx |
| 07:22 | <eekee> | dude, I got my Z scratched & stuff, I paid US$150 for it iirc, and that was the going rate for one around it's condition! ;) I'm loon#king at the same price bracket again, or maybe a little higher, and I want something color that can run linux, so I'll be looking on ebay again |
| 07:23 | <eekee> | I mean... I would go for one of those if I had the money, it's fun to get New Stuff, but.... heh |
| 07:24 | <Gekkko> | eekee: I bought a Palm TX |
| 07:24 | <Gekkko> | AU$500 RRP |
| 07:24 | <Gekkko> | $280 from ebay |
| 07:25 | <Gekkko> | why? major indent in the screen. |
| 07:25 | <Gekkko> | well |
| 07:25 | <Gekkko> | not major |
| 07:25 | <Gekkko> | you cantt seei |
| 07:25 | <Gekkko> | but you can feel it |
| 07:25 | <eekee> | hehehe |
| 07:25 | |-| | skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A52A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 07:25 | <eekee> | ic |
| 07:26 | |-| | maddy [~maddy@88-136-244-96.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd |
| 07:26 | [~] | eekee looks up clamshell Zs on ebay |
| 07:28 | <eekee> | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-Sharp-Zaurus-SL-C3200-mini-laptop-with-case_W0QQitemZ320127149534QQihZ011QQcategoryZ38331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem *want* hehe |
| 07:29 | <Gekkko> | I want a laptop |
| 07:29 | <Gekkko> | mccrap |
| 07:31 | |-| | DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd |
| 07:31 | <eekee> | PDA's more my thing. keep it in pocket, not lug around in bag |
| 07:33 | <eekee> | ... which is how I lost my last Z :D Keys did a nasty on the screen under slight pressure |
| 07:37 | |-| | [BiG^BrotheR] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 07:41 | <Gekkko> | I hate that |
| 07:41 | <Gekkko> | my gameboy broke like that |
| 07:41 | <Gekkko> | nice black screen |
| 07:41 | <Gekkko> | my farts are lethal tonight |
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| 07:43 | <Caemyr> | work! |
| 07:43 | <Caemyr> | code ottd! |
| 07:43 | <SmatZ> | Roger that! |
| 07:43 | <Caemyr> | release new features! |
| 07:44 | <Caemyr> | branch 0.6.0! |
| 07:45 | <Gekkko> | it's ready? |
| 07:45 | <Caemyr> | nope |
| 07:45 | <Caemyr> | but almost done:) |
| 07:48 | <Gekkko> | lol yay |
| 07:48 | <Rubidium> | ooh, nice... Caemyr do you know when it's done? |
| 07:48 | <Gekkko> | I don't think I'll want 0.7 with OpenTTD's own gfx |
| 07:48 | <Gekkko> | I <3 TTDX |
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| 07:48 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
| 07:48 | <Gekkko> | make it an optional patch and I'm sold |
| 07:48 | <Gekkko> | I had an idea how traffic could be implemented |
| 07:49 | <Rubidium> | Gekkko: whole idea about own "gfx" is that OpenTTD come default working out-of-the-box, but that you can just use the old GRFs *if* you've got them |
| 07:49 | <Gekkko> | ah right |
| 07:49 | <Gekkko> | excellent |
| 07:49 | <Gekkko> | would that work multiplayer too? |
| 07:49 | <Rubidium> | as long as only the graphics change it would work perfectly in MP |
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| 07:50 | <Gekkko> | oh cool |
| 07:50 | <Gekkko> | would the gfx be cheap and nasty? |
| 07:50 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 07:50 | <Maedhros> | why would we want to distribute bad graphics? |
| 07:51 | <Rubidium> | and who ever said that 0.7 will have it's own gfx? |
| 07:51 | <Caemyr> | http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Roadmap_0.6 |
| 07:51 | <Caemyr> | wiki doesnt lie |
| 07:51 | <Caemyr> | :) |
| 07:53 | <Rubidium> | Caemyr: probably meant 0.7, anyway... the person who wrote that was just a random user who wanted that to be in 0.7 |
| 07:53 | <Rubidium> | and basically nobody has cared since to "fix" the 0.7 roadmap |
| 07:53 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 07:53 | <Caemyr> | you just shattered all my hopes |
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| 07:54 | <peter1138> | pom te pom |
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| 08:02 | [~] | mikegrb adds control of real trains to the roadmap for 0.7 |
| 08:02 | <mikegrb> | and not piddly model trains either |
| 08:02 | <eekee> | lol |
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| 08:12 | <Noldo> | graphics are useless, let the users steal their own |
| 08:13 | <Gekkko> | HA |
| 08:13 | <Gekkko> | go Noldo |
| 08:13 | [~] | Gekkko puts hand up for high fiveness |
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| 08:16 | <root> | lol |
| 08:16 | <root> | i should change my client |
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| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | do not chat as root... |
| 08:17 | <SmatZ_> | yes... |
| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, you do |
| 08:17 | <SmatZ_> | it was some default nickname |
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| 08:18 | <Zr40> | nicknames default to the username |
| 08:18 | <SmatZ_> | yes :) |
| 08:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | as does the ident, which is still "root" |
| 08:19 | <Gekkko> | I'm logged in as root |
| 08:19 | <Gekkko> | always. |
| 08:19 | <SmatZ_> | ok I am running at root account, you are right |
| 08:20 | <Zr40> | SmatZ_: please create a user for yourself and log in as that, not as root |
| 08:20 | <Zr40> | running KDE as root (or GNOME or anything) is dangerous |
| 08:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | now... where did i put my IRC exploit list |
| 08:20 | <SmatZ_> | :) |
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| 08:21 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: what bout IceWM |
| 08:21 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: 'or anything' :) |
| 08:21 | <Gekkko> | what about IceWM |
| 08:22 | <Zr40> | ...that falls under 'anything' |
| 08:23 | <Zr40> | the only time you should be logged in as root is on the terminal, using su |
| 08:23 | <Zr40> | or even sudo |
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| 08:26 | <Gekkko> | must sleep |
| 08:26 | <Gekkko> | ttyl |
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| 08:32 | <UnderBuilder> | jasper vs sergey... round 1... FIGHT |
| 08:32 | <UnderBuilder> | who wins? |
| 08:32 | <@Belugas> | teaser... |
| 08:32 | <@Belugas> | http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/ECS_Agri_4.png |
| 08:33 | <Zr40> | you're teasing about a feature, not graphics, right? :) |
| 08:33 | <Noldo> | :D |
| 08:33 | <UnderBuilder> | I feel like a jasper but addicted to newindustries :( |
| 08:33 | <peter1138> | UnderBuilder: where? |
| 08:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... those buildings really do not fit into TTD... |
| 08:34 | <UnderBuilder> | or multiplayer in TTDP |
| 08:34 | <@Belugas> | feature in progress, yes :) |
| 08:34 | <peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause2: i bet pikka's do :) |
| 08:34 | <Zr40> | UnderBuilder: bleh, TTDP |
| 08:35 | <UnderBuilder> | the jasper vs sergey fight is my idea :P |
| 08:35 | <peter1138> | hmm. why? |
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| 08:36 | <UnderBuilder> | crazy things of the life... |
| 08:36 | <@Belugas> | Pikka looks great indeed : http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/nice_forest.png |
| 08:36 | <@Belugas> | http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/yellow_yard.png |
| 08:36 | <UnderBuilder> | also I have a idea for a save game: jasper land |
| 08:36 | <peter1138> | who cares about jasper |
| 08:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | who the f... is jasper? |
| 08:37 | <UnderBuilder> | ALL the map filled with highways, traffic lights and vehicles lol |
| 08:37 | <@Belugas> | http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/finally_engineer_Yard.png |
| 08:37 | <@Belugas> | Pikka has THE style :D |
| 08:37 | <peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause2: highway-troll |
| 08:37 | <peter1138> | Belugas: mostly because it's nicked from the original graphics ;) |
| 08:37 | <@Belugas> | yeah, pretty much :) |
| 08:38 | <UnderBuilder> | I love that 4x(2x2) forest |
| 08:38 | <@Belugas> | his quarry is really nice, though |
| 08:38 | <@Belugas> | http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/SandQuarry(ECS).png |
| 08:39 | <@Belugas> | definitively not the same style ;) |
| 08:40 | <peter1138> | heh |
| 08:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | such style-breaks can only be good if the complete graphics are replaced with that style |
| 08:40 | <peter1138> | 32bpp?? |
| 08:40 | <UnderBuilder> | LOL @ quarry |
| 08:40 | <peter1138> | or just smart palette use? |
| 08:41 | <UnderBuilder> | also my pc has some troubles with sounds |
| 08:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i don't believe that is done with 255 colours |
| 08:41 | <UnderBuilder> | it detects the input dispositive but not the output one |
| 08:41 | <@Belugas> | palette usage indeed |
| 08:42 | <@Belugas> | no 32bpp |
| 08:42 | <@Belugas> | that was the ESCBasic sand quarry |
| 08:42 | <@Belugas> | http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/forest_of_mines.png |
| 08:42 | <@Belugas> | and that was a mistake :) |
| 08:42 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | :p |
| 08:42 | <peter1138> | hehe |
| 08:43 | <UnderBuilder> | LOOOOOL |
| 08:43 | <UnderBuilder> | (sorry that is funny :P) |
| 08:43 | <hylje> | :o |
| 08:43 | <hylje> | minefield |
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| 08:44 | <@Belugas> | it was intended to be funny, UnderBuilder :) Although it took me two evening to figure out the errors... |
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| 08:46 | <@Belugas> | just two? no...much more... |
| 08:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that sounded awfully schitzophrenic :) |
| 08:46 | <@Belugas> | yeah, i'm a nut :D |
| 08:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | one? dozens! |
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| 08:47 | <peter1138> | one, two, many, lots |
| 08:48 | <hylje> | one two three four five lotz |
| 08:48 | <hylje> | orks count surprisingly well |
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| 08:49 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 08:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 1394 orcs! |
| 08:50 | <eekee> | RUN! |
| 08:50 | <hylje> | oh noes |
| 08:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | actually it was 3872 orcs... |
| 08:53 | <eekee> | HIDE!!! |
| 08:53 | <hylje> | nuke them from orbit |
| 08:54 | <eekee> | But my pixie spaceship's all broken & stuff! |
| 08:55 | <hylje> | use yer dust |
| 08:56 | <Caemyr> | wow |
| 08:57 | <eekee> | what? :D |
| 08:57 | <Caemyr> | the quarry looks great |
| 08:57 | <eekee> | o ^^ |
| 08:57 | <Caemyr> | even if it`s not the right style |
| 08:57 | [~] | eekee flies around over the orcs scattering pixie dust |
| 08:57 | <Caemyr> | the photorealistic one |
| 08:57 | <Caemyr> | its so damned good |
| 08:59 | <eekee> | ah, what quarry? |
| 08:59 | <hylje> | the pixie dust quarry |
| 08:59 | <eekee> | *snicker* ^^; |
| 09:00 | <hylje> | heh with newind we could have fantasy ttd |
| 09:00 | <eekee> | yeah hehe |
| 09:00 | <hylje> | dwarven trains \o/ |
| 09:00 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 09:01 | <eekee> | dwarven mines are obvious... oh hey, balrog disaster |
| 09:01 | <hylje> | then elves got elegant and fragile trains |
| 09:01 | <hylje> | which carry just pax and stuff |
| 09:01 | <eekee> | yeah ^^' |
| 09:01 | <hylje> | the little peoples make RVs |
| 09:01 | <hylje> | dragons are flyers |
| 09:02 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 09:02 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 09:02 | <eekee> | that's a point, are there any, like, serious disasters in TTD? The worst seem to be the ufos, & they're not much |
| 09:02 | <hylje> | no |
| 09:03 | <hylje> | ravaging demons appear rather fine |
| 09:03 | <eekee> | or rather, would they be worth coding |
| 09:03 | <eekee> | ^^' |
| 09:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | btw: if someone did not get my reference: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wilwheaton/118835790/in/set-72057594091962455/ |
| 09:04 | <eekee> | Oh heh ^^ |
| 09:05 | <hylje> | munchkin |
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| 09:07 | <eekee> | +1 to run away... |
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| 09:21 | <skidd13> | In the wiki is something written about an opengl blitter... is it in trunk? |
| 09:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | no, it's only in peter1138 secret write only patch repository |
| 09:22 | <skidd13> | :( |
| 09:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i'm pretty sure peter1138s patches used to be available online |
| 09:24 | <peter1138> | :o |
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| 09:31 | <Sug> | I opened up a save in the scenario editor and whilst there i deleted a road crossing a rail, now the town owns the rail. |
| 09:34 | <@Belugas> | [10:20] <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's only in peter1138 secret write only patch repository <-- Bermudas Triangle ! Everyting goes in, very few goes out ;) |
| 09:36 | <Digitalfox> | I actually readed Belugas Triangle lol |
| 09:37 | <peter1138> | :D |
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| 09:38 | <Sug> | hmm, and I cant remove it at all |
| 09:38 | <+glx> | scenario editor is not intended to edit savegames |
| 09:38 | <Sug> | well yea, but its possible |
| 09:39 | <+glx> | it 'removes' all player owned stuff |
| 09:39 | <Sug> | no it doesnt |
| 09:39 | <@Belugas> | Digitalfox, not a good example of well written stuff :) |
| 09:40 | <Digitalfox> | Belugas: :) |
| 09:49 | <dihedral> | Sug: magic buldozer :-) |
| 09:49 | <Sug> | doesnt work, like the canals thing |
| 09:49 | <Sug> | just gone back to an older save |
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| 11:05 | <UnderBuilder> | *bump* predict what revision will be implemented newindustries |
| 11:06 | <UnderBuilder> | for me it will be r12345 :D |
| 11:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it gets backdated to r10000 ;p |
| 11:06 | <Maedhros> | r65535 |
| 11:07 | <UnderBuilder> | r32767 will be highways XD |
| 11:07 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | is svn gonna crash afterwards? :p |
| 11:07 | <skidd13> | shht, dont talk about highways, ... jasper could hear it. |
| 11:08 | <UnderBuilder> | he can be one of ours! |
| 11:08 | [~] | UnderBuilder points at Belugas |
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| 11:10 | <@Belugas> | no predictions for newindustries. I can't even guess its completion myself :) |
| 11:14 | <UnderBuilder> | it's only a game, calm down :) |
| 11:14 | <@Belugas> | i'm not upset, believe me :) |
| 11:14 | <@Belugas> | i would like to give a good estimate, but i'm really clueless |
| 11:15 | <@Belugas> | mmhh... |
| 11:15 | <UnderBuilder> | I know that a prediction can be very very out of precision |
| 11:15 | <@Belugas> | "<I can't do any > predictions for newindustries." |
| 11:15 | <@Belugas> | there :) |
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| 11:16 | <@Belugas> | it is, UnderBuilder. And i really would not want to give false hope |
| 11:16 | <@Belugas> | gone :( |
| 11:16 | <Caemyr> | we can always bet on it:P |
| 11:18 | <skidd13> | like what is r10000 ;) |
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| 11:28 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 11:31 | <Wolf01> | now MB is spamming like jasperthecat http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=599304#599304 |
| 11:32 | [~] | dihedral is wondering if TrueBrain is around at all |
| 11:34 | <dihedral> | does not look like it! :-( |
| 11:37 | <peter1138> | Wolf01: heh, the 'tunnels' look nice there |
| 11:37 | <peter1138> | the big round station build is way too large though |
| 11:38 | <skidd13> | Hope theres inoculation against jasper-ague. ;) |
| 11:39 | <Wolf01> | i thought about redesign some tunnels and stations for the tube project, to look like subterranean stations (to see under you must enable the transparency) |
| 11:41 | <Wolf01> | but i don't know if i can draw over adjacent tiles, i mean drawing in width, i know is possible in height because there are skyscrapers |
| 11:42 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | why would you need that? |
| 11:43 | <Wolf01> | to link the roof of the station with the roof of the tunnel, over the tile with signals, if there is only one tile |
| 11:45 | <Wolf01> | but i believe more in eyecandy objects and new map array, to be able to put trees along the railways and walls/roofs/fences |
| 11:45 | <skidd13> | Lepkka did something like this with the water. http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32415&highlight=leveled+water |
| 11:46 | <Wolf01> | yes i know |
| 11:47 | <Wolf01> | but i think my idea was older than it, i started to think about it when the tube project was started, but only now i started to draw something :P |
| 11:47 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Wolf01: i'd rather approach it like a new "tube" railtype that has something drawn on top of it (similar to how catenary is drawn) |
| 11:48 | <peter1138> | heh |
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| 12:06 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ |
| 12:06 | <@Bjarni> | !seen sacro |
| 12:06 | <_42_> | Bjarni, Sacro (Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM) was last seen quitting #openttd 14 hours 38 minutes ago (20.06. 02:28) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 57 minutes there. |
| 12:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you're here for 10 seconds and already miss him :p |
| 12:13 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (yes, i know you got a message that he searched for you) |
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| 12:13 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | now see what you did :p |
| 12:14 | <Sacro|Laptop> | me? i did nothing |
| 12:14 | [~] | Bjarni slaps Sacro|Laptop |
| 12:14 | [~] | Sacro|Laptop fines Bjarni £100 |
| 12:14 | <@Bjarni> | you will do something |
| 12:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | no, i meant him, not you :p |
| 12:14 | <@Bjarni> | so I better harass you.... just in case |
| 12:15 | [~] | Bjarni spotted Halle on a map today |
| 12:15 | <@Bjarni> | I knew where it was, but I found an old map |
| 12:15 | <@Bjarni> | a road map that's like 30-40 years old |
| 12:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i have maps of this area that are like 500 years old :) |
| 12:17 | <@Bjarni> | I know what the roadmaps of the Halle area from 5000 BC looks like :p |
| 12:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah... like... empty :p |
| 12:20 | <Smoovious> | and no left-turn lanes or signals |
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| 12:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himmelsscheibe_von_Nebra <- this was found not very far away from here... it is supposed to be from around 2000 B.C. |
| 12:22 | <XeryusTC> | lol, the 3rd looks like a smiley :) |
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| 12:32 | <colle> | uhh, a police officer was just killed 400 m from my house :( |
| 12:32 | <colle> | shot |
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| 12:33 | <oxygene_> | where are you living, colle? |
| 12:33 | <colle> | sweden |
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| 12:33 | <oxygene_> | i've expected new jersey or so |
| 12:33 | <colle> | yeah |
| 12:33 | <colle> | something like that is not supposed to happen here |
| 12:34 | <colle> | one more is badly injured |
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| 12:45 | <Sacro> | svn log $_svntrunk --limit 1 | grep -m 1 -o "r.*" | cut -d \| -f 1 | sed s@r@@g |
| 12:45 | <Sacro> | is that the simpleist way of getting the revision number? |
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| 12:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | svn info? |
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| 12:48 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause2: i dunno, i'm doing an openttd-svn PKGBUILD for ArchLinux |
| 12:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Sacro: isn't there stuff to get the revision number in the makefile? |
| 12:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | why not reuse that? |
| 12:49 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause2: i don't know |
| 12:49 | <Sacro> | hence why i am asking |
| 12:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that was a rhethorical question :) |
| 12:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the makefile gets the revision number and branch name, and puts that into rev.c(pp) |
| 12:50 | <Sacro> | hmmmm |
| 12:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i remember something about awk magic |
| 12:51 | <Sacro> | svnversion $(SRC_DIR) | sed -n 's/.*\(M\).*/\1/p' |
| 12:51 | <Sacro> | oh bloody hell |
| 12:51 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's the modified flag |
| 12:51 | <Sacro> | svn info $(SRC_DIR) | $(AWK) '/^URL:.*branches/ { split($$2, a, "/"); BRANCH="-"a[5] } /^Last Changed Rev:/ { REV="r"$$4"$(REV_MODIFIED)" } END { print REV BRANCH }' |
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| 12:52 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, that bit looks good |
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| 12:53 | <Sacro> | hmm, that doesn't work |
| 12:54 | <Sacro> | i think i'll stick to the other one |
| 12:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, it probably requires LC_ALL=C and stuff... |
| 12:58 | <Sacro> | hmmm |
| 12:58 | <TrueBrain> | Yo Yo Yo! |
| 12:58 | <TrueBrain> | :p |
| 12:59 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause2: yes... |
| 12:59 | <Sacro> | my LC_ALL isn't set |
| 12:59 | <Sacro> | now... is there a way to get the latest nightly revision, without downloading svn |
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| 13:00 | <TrueBrain> | what are the odds: http://nightly.openttd.org/latest/.rev |
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| 13:00 | <TrueBrain> | just pated it in an other channel :p |
| 13:00 | <TrueBrain> | (so: wget http://nightly.openttd.org/latest/.rev -q -O /dev/stdout | head -n 1 |
| 13:00 | <Sacro> | TrueBrain: thats quite awesome |
| 13:00 | <Sacro> | though... hmmm |
| 13:00 | <Sacro> | i don't know if i can do that in the top of a PKGBUILD |
| 13:00 | <Sacro> | i could backtick it |
| 13:01 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | $(command) |
| 13:01 | <TrueBrain> | else: svn info svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk |
| 13:01 | <TrueBrain> | oh, without svn |
| 13:01 | <TrueBrain> | nah, forget it :) |
| 13:02 | <Sacro> | well until it hits the makedepends() bit, theres no guarantee that svn is available |
| 13:03 | <TrueBrain> | then this is your only way in I guess :) |
| 13:03 | <Sacro> | oooh |
| 13:03 | <Sacro> | i have versionpkg |
| 13:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | is there a guarantee that wget is available? |
| 13:03 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause2: its part of the default base install |
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| 13:05 | <Sacro> | hmm, i guess i can use versionpkg rather than makepkg |
| 13:07 | <Sacro> | i'm sure its svn://svn.openttd.org |
| 13:08 | <Sacro> | do i need ./autogen.sh? |
| 13:08 | <Sacro> | i think not... |
| 13:09 | <Maedhros> | considering there isn't one, no :p |
| 13:09 | <stillunknown> | The "simple" task of splitting train controller into several smaller functions is not so simple ;-( |
| 13:10 | <Sacro> | hehe |
| 13:10 | <dihedral> | hello TrueBrain |
| 13:10 | <Sacro> | how do i make it use /usr/share/openttd-svn/* ? |
| 13:11 | <Maedhros> | ./configure --prefix-dir=/usr --data-dir=share/openttd-svn etc. |
| 13:12 | <Sacro> | cool |
| 13:12 | <Sacro> | is there a way to quickly rename the binary? |
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| 13:15 | <Caemyr> | click on in, two times |
| 13:15 | <Caemyr> | and type the new name:P |
| 13:16 | <Maedhros> | mv? i don't think you can do it with configure |
| 13:18 | <stillunknown> | Caemyr: You're making assumptions, which you shouldn't. |
| 13:18 | <Caemyr> | at least that`s quick:) |
| 13:18 | <Caemyr> | ok just joking |
| 13:18 | <Caemyr> | bbl |
| 13:18 | |-| | alanin changed nick to Alanin |
| 13:19 | <Sacro> | stillunknown: yes, gonna have to be mv |
| 13:21 | <valhallasw> | what is squirrel? |
| 13:21 | <valhallasw> | (the repos directory, of course) |
| 13:21 | <@Belugas> | a little mammal linving in the trees :) |
| 13:22 | <@Belugas> | it has to do with NoAI, a script language, IIRC |
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| 13:22 | <valhallasw> | ah |
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| 13:22 | <Ailure> | :D |
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| 13:22 | <hylje> | :o |
| 13:23 | <Ailure> | mew |
| 13:23 | <hylje> | omg, furries |
| 13:24 | <Ailure> | YES |
| 13:24 | <Ailure> | :D |
| 13:24 | <Sacro> | Unknown option --prefix=/usr |
| 13:24 | <Sacro> | what a silly configure script |
| 13:24 | <Ailure> | haha |
| 13:24 | <Ailure> | reminds me that I saw a discussion about openTTD in a random furry community I happened to stumble upon the other day |
| 13:25 | <Ailure> | made me wonder how popular openttd actually is |
| 13:25 | <hylje> | :o |
| 13:25 | <Sacro> | so... who deals with the configure script? |
| 13:25 | <hylje> | among furries? nooooo |
| 13:25 | <Sacro> | ahhh |
| 13:25 | <Sacro> | prefix-dir |
| 13:25 | <Sacro> | thats no standard |
| 13:25 | <Ailure> | especially since it wasn't much other talk abotu games |
| 13:26 | <Sacro> | does make install work yet? |
| 13:27 | <Ailure> | Maybe I make some furry newGRF one of thoose days :V |
| 13:27 | <hylje> | oh god |
| 13:27 | <hylje> | no |
| 13:28 | <hylje> | D: |
| 13:28 | <Ailure> | :D |
| 13:28 | <peter1138> | furries :( |
| 13:29 | <Ailure> | We're on the internet, get over it |
| 13:29 | <Ailure> | ;) |
| 13:29 | <hylje> | and everyone hates you |
| 13:29 | <hylje> | :< |
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| 13:29 | <Ailure> | :( |
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| 13:29 | <hylje> | there was a graph |
| 13:29 | <hylje> | of internet subcultures' relations |
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| 13:29 | <hylje> | just about everyone thought they were better than furries |
| 13:29 | <peter1138> | because they are |
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| 13:30 | <hylje> | quite probably indeed |
| 13:30 | <@Belugas> | "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" (Waters) – 4:59 |
| 13:30 | <Ailure> | that graph kinda dind't work to me though |
| 13:30 | <@Belugas> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummagumma |
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| 13:30 | <Ailure> | becuse I felt more like a computer geek than a furry on it |
| 13:30 | <hylje> | heh progressive rock |
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| 13:30 | <Sacro> | grr |
| 13:30 | <@Belugas> | furry! |
| 13:30 | <@Belugas> | furries!! |
| 13:31 | <Sacro> | so... how does the new makefile work? |
| 13:33 | <Ailure> | You put it into the microwave for eight minutes |
| 13:33 | <hylje> | yiff moar |
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| 13:33 | <hylje> | :p |
| 13:33 | <peter1138> | :o |
| 13:33 | <@Bjarni> | <Sacro> so... how does the new makefile work? <-- you get the new makefile and type make |
| 13:33 | <Ailure> | hush before I make yiff.grf |
| 13:33 | <Sacro> | Bjarni: yes, i've got it doing make now |
| 13:33 | <@Bjarni> | you get the makefile by running configure |
| 13:33 | <hylje> | fine |
| 13:33 | <Sacro> | and it generates it from Makefile.ln |
| 13:34 | <Sacro> | possibly using m4 |
| 13:34 | <peter1138> | 'yiff' : furries pretending that promiscuous gay underage sex is fluffy love |
| 13:34 | <Sacro> | peter1138: you are most knowledgeable |
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| 13:34 | <Ailure> | apparently |
| 13:34 | <@Belugas> | he made that up, i'm sure:D |
| 13:35 | <Ailure> | it was some fox greeting phrase at some MUCK |
| 13:35 | <Ailure> | that some guy made up |
| 13:35 | <Ailure> | then it transformed into the infamous internet phrase as we know today |
| 13:35 | <peter1138> | Sacro: of course, i learnt it all from you |
| 13:35 | <Sacro> | :o |
| 13:35 | <Sacro> | i told you nothing |
| 13:35 | <@Bjarni> | >_< |
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| 13:35 | <@Bjarni> | if peter1138 learned all he knows from Sacro, then peter1138's knowledge is NULL |
| 13:36 | <Sacro> | openttd: /home/ben/Desktop/openttd-svn/src/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:107: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed. |
| 13:36 | <@Bjarni> | somehow that's not right |
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| 13:36 | <@Bjarni> | Sacro: that is for assigning NULL to peter1138 :P |
| 13:36 | <peter1138> | Sacro: and the line *above* that? |
| 13:36 | <Sacro> | hehe |
| 13:36 | <Sacro> | cannot open "sample.cat" |
| 13:37 | <@Bjarni> | ... |
| 13:37 | <Ailure> | Better not ask peter abotu stuff then |
| 13:37 | <@Bjarni> | BONEHEAD |
| 13:37 | <Ailure> | or we get ugly bugs |
| 13:37 | <peter1138> | right with -d misc=4 |
| 13:37 | <@Bjarni> | you should know how to add sample.cat |
| 13:37 | <peter1138> | *run |
| 13:37 | <Sacro> | is there a make install now? |
| 13:37 | <stillunknown> | Strange, debug level 3 should display symbols properly in gdb? |
| 13:38 | <peter1138> | stillunknown, yes |
| 13:38 | <Sacro> | IS THERE A MAKE INSTALL? |
| 13:38 | <peter1138> | TRY IT |
| 13:38 | <Ailure> | hmm |
| 13:39 | <Sacro> | yes there is |
| 13:39 | <stillunknown> | peter1138: So a bunch of ???? indicates crashing in an external library? |
| 13:39 | <Sacro> | but no INSTALL_PREFIX |
| 13:39 | <Sacro> | please can i request one |
| 13:39 | <peter1138> | stillunknown: might be something fun like everything overflowing |
| 13:39 | <Sacro> | otherwise i have to do it manually using install -m644 |
| 13:39 | <hylje> | metaprogramming! |
| 13:39 | <peter1138> | Sacro... |
| 13:40 | <peter1138> | ./configure --help |
| 13:40 | <peter1138> | Paths: |
| 13:40 | <peter1138> | --prefix-dir=dir specifies the prefix for all installed |
| 13:40 | <peter1138> | files [/usr/local] |
| 13:40 | <peter1138> | ETC ETC |
| 13:40 | <TrueBrain> | RTFM |
| 13:40 | <TrueBrain> | indeed |
| 13:40 | <Sacro> | prefix-dir doesn't do what i need |
| 13:40 | <hylje> | whut |
| 13:40 | <Sacro> | hmmm, install-dir might |
| 13:40 | <TrueBrain> | oh joy, he finally found the --help... |
| 13:41 | <peter1138> | what did i have left to do for opengl? |
| 13:41 | <TrueBrain> | peter1138: I was hoping nothing... ;) Yeah, one function: SetPixelIfEmpty ;0 |
| 13:42 | <Sacro> | :o |
| 13:42 | <Sacro> | make install actually works |
| 13:43 | <TrueBrain> | oh no, we did something write! |
| 13:43 | <ln-> | http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gt/movies/2007/duckon/SingingTeslaShow.html |
| 13:43 | <peter1138> | oh yes |
| 13:43 | <hylje> | oh noes |
| 13:44 | <Sacro> | except its using /usr/game rather than /usr/bin |
| 13:44 | <Sacro> | how silly |
| 13:44 | <TrueBrain> | hmm.. write? I should get some sleep... |
| 13:45 | <peter1138> | ln-, mad |
| 13:47 | <@Bjarni> | ln-: wow... who made this? |
| 13:47 | <Sacro> | pretty soon, everyone with ArchLinux can play nightlies without needing to do much! |
| 13:47 | <ln-> | Bjarni: no idea |
| 13:48 | <@Bjarni> | ok |
| 13:48 | <@Bjarni> | however I know some people, who would have done this if they had access to hardware like that |
| 13:49 | <Sacro> | wow, it plays mario |
| 13:49 | <Sacro> | i want one |
| 13:50 | <Caemyr> | ln-: nice:) |
| 13:51 | <@Bjarni> | <Sacro> wow, it plays mario <-- also the tetris thingie |
| 13:51 | <@Bjarni> | it's in no way random what it plays |
| 13:51 | <Sacro> | Bjarni: indeed |
| 13:52 | <Sacro> | right... does my package install nciely |
| 13:52 | <Sacro> | yay, i created a working svn PKGBUILD |
| 13:53 | <Sacro> | i am so smart, i am so smart |
| 13:53 | <Sacro> | S M R T |
| 13:53 | <Sacro> | i mean S M A R T |
| 13:53 | <hylje> | what |
| 13:54 | <Ailure> | bah |
| 13:54 | <Ailure> | Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology? |
| 13:54 | <Ailure> | Really fun when it's warns for immiedate HD crash |
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| 13:58 | <Sacro> | !nightly |
| 13:58 | <Sacro> | !nightlies |
| 13:58 | <Sacro> | @nightly |
| 13:58 | <Sacro> | grrr :( |
| 13:58 | <Ailure> | ah yeah |
| 13:58 | <Ailure> | it was just compiled |
| 13:58 | <Sacro> | was it? |
| 13:58 | <Ailure> | 20:00 every days |
| 13:58 | <Sacro> | is it 19:00 UTC? |
| 13:58 | <Ailure> | the compile farm starts spinning |
| 13:58 | <Ailure> | or 19:00 UTC yeah |
| 13:59 | <Ailure> | r10234 truelight 2007-06-20 12:30:25 +0200 (Wed, 20 Jun 2007) 2 lines |
| 13:59 | <Ailure> | -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy |
| 13:59 | <Ailure> | This is getting creepy. peter1138 is actually some bot ran in openTTD? |
| 13:59 | <Ailure> | :V |
| 13:59 | <hylje> | ggggggggggggggggggggggggggg |
| 13:59 | <hylje> | no |
| 14:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | > make peter1138 happy |
| 14:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | make: *** [peter1138] Error 1 |
| 14:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | does not work... |
| 14:06 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 14:07 | <Sacro> | Ailure: don't confuse me with fake commits |
| 14:07 | <@DorpsGek> | peter1138: Commit by truelight :: r10234 trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp (2007-06-20 10:30:25 UTC) |
| 14:07 | <@DorpsGek> | peter1138: -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy |
| 14:07 | <peter1138> | :o |
| 14:08 | <Sacro> | wtf? |
| 14:08 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 14:08 | <dihedral> | lets wais revisions shall we? |
| 14:08 | <peter1138> | hmm |
| 14:08 | <peter1138> | antialiased lines don't work too well :-( |
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| 14:12 | <peter1138> | http://fuzzle.org/o/opengl13.png |
| 14:12 | <hylje> | AA! |
| 14:12 | <@Belugas> | kinda blurry, isn't it? |
| 14:14 | <@Bjarni> | <Sacro> i am so smart, i am so smart <-- smart enough to realise that it should be uppercase I? |
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| 14:17 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: maedhros * r10236 /trunk/ (21 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Introduce a form of timetabling for vehicles. |
| 14:17 | <hylje> | omg |
| 14:18 | <nairan> | ? |
| 14:18 | <hylje> | clockwork ottd! |
| 14:18 | <Maedhros> | :) |
| 14:18 | <Maedhros> | hmm, i'm going to have to write some documentation now, aren't i? ;) |
| 14:18 | <hylje> | yes |
| 14:19 | <Caemyr> | please do:) |
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| 14:20 | [~] | Wolf01 download and compiles, now |
| 14:20 | |-| | Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 14:20 | <lolman> | I was in the middle of compiling when that update went up...damnit >_< |
| 14:21 | <@Bjarni> | lol |
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| 14:21 | <Caemyr> | hah |
| 14:21 | <@Bjarni> | I sent " http://qdb.us/93669 " in PM to Sacro and then he timed out... I guess he didn't like it xD |
| 14:22 | <Sacro> | :o |
| 14:22 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 14:22 | <Caemyr> | why?:) |
| 14:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:17:23: error: timetable.h: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden |
| 14:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ?? |
| 14:23 | <Sacro> | Bjarni: it's a simpsons quote |
| 14:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (saying "file not found") |
| 14:23 | <@Bjarni> | I have no satelite/cable channels aka I can't watch Simpsons |
| 14:23 | <Sacro> | i think someone broke trunk |
| 14:23 | <@Bjarni> | so I shouldn't be blamed for not knowing everything about Simpsons |
| 14:23 | <Maedhros> | ah, bugger it |
| 14:23 | <Maedhros> | i forgot to svn add them... |
| 14:24 | <@Bjarni> | :P |
| 14:24 | <hylje> | bugger |
| 14:24 | <Sacro> | Maedhros: i'm sat here debugging an autobuild script |
| 14:24 | <Sacro> | Maedhros: timetable.h :p |
| 14:24 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: you do have internet, and you can buy DVDs :) |
| 14:25 | <Sacro> | HD-PORN :D |
| 14:25 | <@Bjarni> | why should I pay for it? |
| 14:25 | <stillunknown> | Would there be interest in the seperation of the TrainController function, into more manageable blocks? |
| 14:25 | <dihedral> | HD-PORN or Simpsons? |
| 14:25 | <Caemyr> | both |
| 14:25 | <@Bjarni> | <Sacro> HD-PORN :D <-- so downloading the Simpsons acts like porn for you??? I don't want to examine your mind >_< |
| 14:26 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 14:26 | <dihedral> | nice one |
| 14:26 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 14:26 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: maedhros * r10237 /trunk/src/ (timetable.h timetable_cmd.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Fix (r10236): It helps if you use svn add with new files... |
| 14:26 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | stillunknown: make vehicles into classes and unify the movement |
| 14:27 | <stillunknown> | There has to be a beginning somewhere. |
| 14:27 | <stillunknown> | It's NOT possible to do it all at once. |
| 14:27 | <stillunknown> | Even splitting up the train controller was a non-trivial task. |
| 14:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | sure... rm -rf * and start from scratch :) |
| 14:27 | <dihedral> | just dont run that in / |
| 14:28 | <@Bjarni> | nobody claimed it to be trivial |
| 14:28 | <Wolf01> | eh thank you Maedhros :D |
| 14:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | compiling takes fooooreeeeeveeeeer... |
| 14:29 | <Wolf01> | i was looking for what i could have break this time :P |
| 14:29 | <@Bjarni> | Eddi|zuHause2: nobody told you to compile on a 25 MHz system :P |
| 14:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... now i have a new feature that i want to try out, but no useful savegame to start with... |
| 14:30 | <Wolf01> | i have a savegame if you want, but it uses 16MB of grfs |
| 14:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i have a really old savegame, i try to remember what i did back then... |
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| 14:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... resizing the window is totally buggy... |
| 14:34 | <Maedhros> | really? it worked fine a while ago... |
| 14:35 | <Maedhros> | hah, that's a bit special.. |
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| 14:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the sticky button stays in place, and it only displays one line after i resized |
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| 14:36 | <Wolf01> | the vehicle is 69 days late :O |
| 14:37 | <Maedhros> | yeah, you need to reset the late counter when the vehicle arrives at its first order |
| 14:39 | <Wolf01> | an automatic clock should be usefull to make an average of the trip time |
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| 14:40 | <Wolf01> | something like, you start it at the first order, when it loops through the schedule and reaches again the first order it stops, so you have an approx time of the trip |
| 14:40 | <Wolf01> | (from A to B, not A <-> B) |
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| 14:41 | <Maedhros> | can do. you can also set the timetable to 1 day, let the vehicle leave and then reset the late counter |
| 14:41 | <Maedhros> | so you can see how late it is (minus 1 day) and that's how long the trip took |
| 14:41 | <Wolf01> | ok, now it looks right: 189 days late |
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| 14:43 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | this *dingding* sound is driving me crazy... |
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| 14:43 | <stillunknown> | Bjarni: http://paste.openttd.org/121 |
| 14:45 | <@Bjarni> | and you are telling me this now because? |
| 14:46 | <stillunknown> | Forget it, i have developed a bad habit. |
| 14:46 | <stillunknown> | One were i assume i already talked to you about it ;-) |
| 14:46 | <@Bjarni> | you lack self confidence to figure out if you are on the right track or not? |
| 14:48 | <stillunknown> | I found in the past that trying to classify too much code, causes a mess, i am looking for opinions, but not necessarily from you. |
| 14:49 | <stillunknown> | I am wondering if this is considered an improvement, in terms of style. |
| 14:50 | <boekabart> | stillunknown: what does this patch do? |
| 14:50 | <stillunknown> | Functionally, nothing. |
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| 14:50 | <boekabart> | i find the wormhole intrigueing |
| 14:50 | <stillunknown> | It just a step in a (hopefully more sane) managing of vehicles. |
| 14:51 | <stillunknown> | That wormhole has always been there. |
| 14:51 | <stillunknown> | wormhole = bridge or tunnel |
| 14:51 | <boekabart> | stillunknown: i figured so much |
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| 14:51 | <boekabart> | after reading better :) |
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| 14:54 | <Maedhros> | right, now to fix the resizing... |
| 14:57 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: maedhros * r10238 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10236): Resizing the timetable window caused it to think it could only show one line at a time. |
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| 14:58 | <Wolf01> | Maedhros, the pin button is always in the same position when you resize |
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| 14:58 | <peter1138> | hehe |
| 14:59 | [~] | peter1138 experiments with it |
| 14:59 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i already reported that :) |
| 15:00 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm, the timetable window does not close together with the other windows (e.g. orders) when i close the train window |
| 15:01 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and it might be helpful if the current order is also shown in the timetable |
| 15:01 | <Maedhros> | the timetable window not closing is deliberate |
| 15:02 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: maedhros * r10239 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10236): The pin button didn't move when resizing the timetable gui. |
| 15:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but it's kinda inconsistent |
| 15:04 | <Maedhros> | svn commit stat whoring++ |
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| 15:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it might be better to change the behaviour of the old windows, though |
| 15:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i never liked e.g. the orders window closing if i open the details window |
| 15:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | are vehicles gonna wait at stations/waypoints if they are early? |
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| 15:06 | <Maedhros> | stations yes, waypoints no |
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| 15:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm, so i need to set up waiting stations for freight trains, in order to let express trains overtake... |
| 15:13 | <Maedhros> | yes. waiting at waypoints would cause havoc, imho |
| 15:13 | <peter1138> | hmm |
| 15:13 | <Maedhros> | and you can use the bare ground tiles from newstations anyway :) |
| 15:13 | <peter1138> | but: to stop it waiting at waypoints, you just don't specify a time, no? |
| 15:13 | <Maedhros> | hmm, true... |
| 15:14 | <peter1138> | i don't know how it interacts with the travel part |
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| 15:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... this savegame runs too well without scheduling... |
| 15:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i need to build a new network, probably... |
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| 15:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and i'm always going to bitch about lack of PBS if i tried that... |
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| 15:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what's funny is that this savegame actually was loaded with the proper newgrfs, although i thought it was really ancient (pre-newstations even) |
| 15:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i believe i started it with the elrails branch |
| 15:22 | <ln-_> | do you think the vehicles are too unsafe? |
| 15:22 | <ln-_> | in this game? |
| 15:22 | <ln-_> | you = anyone |
| 15:22 | |-| | ln-_ changed nick to ln- |
| 15:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what kind of unsafe? |
| 15:26 | <ln-> | if there's a collision, it's a 100% chance you die. |
| 15:26 | <ln-> | every time every single passenger + drivers of both vehicles die. |
| 15:27 | <@Bjarni> | sounds like US safety |
| 15:27 | <@Bjarni> | of the 19th century |
| 15:35 | <Sacro> | zomg timetables? |
| 15:37 | <Phazorx> | ln-: these who did not get killed by impact die from shame of being employed by your company |
| 15:39 | <Sacro> | Maedhros: i need some kind of system for telling roughly how long to get from one station to another |
| 15:40 | <peter1138> | i was wondering that too :o |
| 15:40 | <peter1138> | it's a bit... guess work, atm |
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| 15:41 | <Sacro> | yeah... |
| 15:42 | <Maedhros> | yeah. like i said, one way of doing it is to set the timetable to 1 day (or tick), then reset the late counter after the vehicle has left the station |
| 15:42 | <Maedhros> | how late it is will tell you how long it took to get there |
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| 15:43 | <Sacro> | Maedhros: but that takes a whole cycle of the route to do |
| 15:44 | <Sacro> | can it not calculate the manhatten distance |
| 15:44 | <Sacro> | and then use the speed |
| 15:44 | <Sacro> | to give you a rough estimate |
| 15:44 | <Maedhros> | if your railway is straight and flat, then maybe |
| 15:44 | <Sacro> | yes |
| 15:44 | <Sacro> | but state that |
| 15:44 | <Sacro> | its only an estimate based on a straight flat route |
| 15:45 | <dihedral> | good night ladies |
| 15:45 | [~] | dihedral yawns |
| 15:45 | <dihedral> | :-) |
| 15:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you could have the pathfinder return the length |
| 15:46 | <dihedral> | i need the pathfinder to get me to bed |
| 15:46 | <dihedral> | cu |
| 15:46 | <@Belugas> | nini dihedral |
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| 15:49 | <Sacro> | how do you stop it from deleting your grf list? |
| 15:50 | <Sacro> | i add them to ~/.openttd-svn/openttd,cfg |
| 15:50 | <Sacro> | run openttd-svn |
| 15:50 | <Sacro> | and it deletes them all |
| 15:50 | <peter1138> | a "waiting time" indicator would be nice |
| 15:50 | <Sacro> | along with the loading %age |
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| 15:56 | <Sacro> | ls -o standard/*.grf | awk '{print $7}' |
| 15:56 | <colle> | it seems to delete the grf-entries for the files it doesn't find |
| 15:56 | <Sacro> | i'm sure theres a more efficient way |
| 15:57 | <Sacro> | though i figured out awk! |
| 16:01 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 16:04 | <@Bjarni> | how do I make an ssh connection and tell it to use my current x11 display as display? |
| 16:04 | <e1ko> | ssh -X |
| 16:04 | <Hendikins> | ssh -X to enable X11 forwarding, and it should be smart enough to do the rest. |
| 16:04 | <@Bjarni> | I keep getting "unble to open display", which is kind of uncool |
| 16:05 | <skidd13> | Is the x over ssh serversided enabled? |
| 16:06 | <colle> | check what the $DISPLAY variable is set to |
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| 16:08 | <@Bjarni> | now it works :D |
| 16:08 | <@Bjarni> | but it's kind of slow :s |
| 16:08 | <@Bjarni> | thanks |
| 16:09 | <@Bjarni> | I guess opening an ssh connection though an ssh connection would be kind of slow, but I can't access the server directly (firewall setup) |
| 16:10 | <@Bjarni> | people are so paranoid |
| 16:12 | <@Bjarni> | this isn't usable |
| 16:12 | <@Bjarni> | now I have spent 4 minutes opening a text file and it's still not ready |
| 16:12 | <@Bjarni> | :( |
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| 16:16 | <@Bjarni> | weird. Now it's much faster |
| 16:16 | <@Bjarni> | even usable |
| 16:16 | <@Bjarni> | it feels almost like working locally |
| 16:16 | <@Bjarni> | *almost* |
| 16:17 | <@Bjarni> | ahh the nice randomness of internet lag :p |
| 16:18 | [~] | peter1138 > sleep |
| 16:19 | <stillunknown> | Does anyone know why some changes (when doing svn up) are ignored and simply treated as inverse local copy changes? |
| 16:20 | <stillunknown> | It usually happens in modified files, but does not generate conflicts. |
| 16:21 | <@Bjarni> | oops |
| 16:21 | <@Bjarni> | control+c isn't undo :p |
| 16:21 | <Maedhros> | good night |
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| 16:22 | <@Bjarni> | stillunknown: when updating, if you have local modifications, it will keep those. If they are like the update, they aren't local modifications anymore (naturally)... id that what you meant or something else? |
| 16:23 | <stillunknown> | If a trunk revision adds: int foo = 1; |
| 16:24 | <stillunknown> | Sometimes it doesn't add that and svn diff shows -int foo = 1; |
| 16:24 | <@Bjarni> | odd |
| 16:24 | <@Bjarni> | it shouldn't do that |
| 16:24 | [~] | Bjarni think he just found a bug (but not in OTTD) |
| 16:25 | <@Bjarni> | when copy pasting in nedit, it reads it as control+c and it closes the app |
| 16:25 | <@Bjarni> | really annoying |
| 16:28 | <skidd13> | started from an xterm? |
| 16:28 | <@Bjarni> | yes |
| 16:28 | <@Bjarni> | any known workarounds for this issue? |
| 16:29 | <skidd13> | ctrl+c is AFAIK the term signal for the current running process. |
| 16:29 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
| 16:29 | <eekee> | funny, nedit should be able to override ctrl-c iirc. I /theenk/ vi does. |
| 16:29 | <@Bjarni> | but it's also copy in nedit >_< |
| 16:30 | <eekee> | yeah that's a bug in nedit, it shuld be blocking it. |
| 16:32 | <@Bjarni> | it doesn't appear to have easy access to hotkey setup |
| 16:34 | <NukeBuster> | try ctrl-insert |
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| 16:35 | <@Bjarni> | didn't work either |
| 16:36 | <@Bjarni> | interesting |
| 16:36 | <@Bjarni> | control-v kills it as well |
| 16:37 | <skidd13> | man xterm -> modifyFunctionKeys |
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| 16:41 | <@Bjarni> | I got voice :D |
| 16:41 | <@Bjarni> | I have no idea what I should do with it though :p |
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| 16:47 | <stillunknown> | Now i know what caused my problem, i probably forgot to reload a file and saved the old one. |
| 16:49 | <skidd13> | you can modify the ressources of the xterm in ~/.Xdefaults eg XTerm*modifyFunctionKeys: -1 and all ctrl, etc signal catching from xterm is gone. As far as I understand then manual right. |
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| 17:02 | <@Bjarni> | <stillunknown> Now i know what caused my problem, i probably forgot to reload a file and saved the old one. <-- use a client that can figure out that the file is changed ;) |
| 17:02 | <@Bjarni> | fuck, now I have another problem |
| 17:02 | <@Bjarni> | my | hotkeys are mapped to something else in nedit |
| 17:02 | <@Bjarni> | and since I still can't copy paste.... |
| 17:02 | <@Bjarni> | fuck |
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| 17:04 | <@Bjarni> | hmm |
| 17:04 | <@Bjarni> | how to reload .Xdefaults without logging out and in again? |
| 17:05 | <skidd13> | tried to start a new xterm? |
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| 17:06 | <@Bjarni> | hmm |
| 17:06 | <@Bjarni> | looks like it didn't like my modification |
| 17:06 | <@Bjarni> | ohh, it just lagged big time |
| 17:10 | |-| | Sug [~graeme@88-104-118-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 17:13 | <@Bjarni> | bahh, I can't get copy pasting to work |
| 17:13 | <@Bjarni> | however I can open pico to add the two || I need... talk about lame workaround |
| 17:13 | <@Bjarni> | on the other hand, pico lacks symtax highlighting and line numbers |
| 17:16 | [~] | Sacro writes a securom patch for openttd |
| 17:20 | <@Bjarni> | YOU will write a patch? |
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| 17:21 | <skidd13> | What about a keyboard GUI for PDA's or NintendoDS? |
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| 17:25 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ |
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| 17:28 | <@Bjarni> | skidd13: the PSP porter took some PSP thingie to add keys. Basically it's a 3x3 fields where you select one. Each of them then contains 4 (or was it 8) letters. This allows writing with only direction keys if needed |
| 17:29 | <@Bjarni> | naturally we should not make OpenTTD depend on 3rd party PSP libs for all ports, but the idea appeared sane |
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| 17:31 | <skidd13> | Damn it's late here. night |
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| 17:31 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's only 0:30... the night barely began |
| 17:31 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
| 17:31 | <@Bjarni> | I plan on having some more working code when I show up tomorrow |
| 17:32 | <@Bjarni> | and the other guys will gaze at the svn log xD |
| 17:32 | <@Bjarni> | the time stamps and the added functions |
| 17:32 | <@Bjarni> | last time that happened was the 6:15 commit Sunday morning |
| 17:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | lmao :p |
| 17:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that can't happen today :p |
| 17:33 | [~] | Bjarni wonders if he will be asked "don't you ever sleep" tomorrow |
| 17:33 | <MarkMc> | It's 12:33AM here to :) |
| 17:34 | <@Bjarni> | btw I already coded one functionality we had declared "we can't make it in time" and in time would be before Friday, so I feel pretty good about this |
| 17:35 | <Smoovious> | what' the functionality?? |
| 17:35 | <@Bjarni> | err |
| 17:35 | <@Bjarni> | that's a long story |
| 17:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but you have to think about the functionality you skipped in the mean time |
| 17:36 | <@Bjarni> | it's some robot driving based on sensor input |
| 17:39 | <Smoovious> | oh, real-world stuff? |
| 17:40 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
| 17:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | not real world... he was talking about robots and sensors... :p |
| 17:40 | <Smoovious> | the kind of stuff they had those full-scale cross-country autonomous races for? |
| 17:40 | <@Bjarni> | but it's real world stuff to make it avoid driving into walls xD |
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| 17:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Smoovious: this is not america, we have smaller scale presentations here in europe :p |
| 17:41 | <Smoovious> | um... the competitors weren't all americans... .. . |
| 17:41 | <@Bjarni> | <Smoovious> the kind of stuff they had those full-scale cross-country autonomous races for? <-- basically yes. We use the same gates and stuff as the annual competition at uni |
| 17:42 | <Smoovious> | that's quite cool, Bjarni... |
| 17:42 | <@Bjarni> | a competition that sometimes include teams from other countries |
| 17:43 | <Smoovious> | watching the extended coverage of the races was one of the most interesting things I've had a chance to check out in the past few years... only wish I was able to be part of one of the teams. :) |
| 17:43 | <@Bjarni> | <Smoovious> that's quite cool, Bjarni... <-- I know... and the cool part is that my code (mainly my code) can actually reach finish by now (deadline is Friday). Now I just have to make it not take the easy shortcuts so I can get more points, but it can reach the goal, which is a victory in itself :D |
| 17:44 | <Smoovious> | :) |
| 17:44 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's probably easy... just study some fancy branch of robotics :p |
| 17:44 | <Smoovious> | easy... right. |
| 17:44 | <Smoovious> | dealing with obstacles efficiently is one of the hardest things... |
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| 17:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "easy" is always from my point of view :) |
| 17:45 | <@Bjarni> | well, actually it didn't actually enter the goal... it reached it and the battery died like 10 cm from it because he had made test runs all day... then it had to recharge all night :( |
| 17:45 | <Smoovious> | uh huh |
| 17:45 | <@Bjarni> | now that looked silly... o_O |
| 17:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | pwned! :p |
| 17:45 | <@Bjarni> | it really died... I mean it started rebooting when I plugged in the external power |
| 17:45 | <Smoovious> | what's the vehicle/team's name? |
| 17:46 | <@Bjarni> | name? |
| 17:46 | <@Bjarni> | err |
| 17:46 | <Smoovious> | yeah |
| 17:46 | <@Bjarni> | should we have a name? |
| 17:46 | <@Bjarni> | it's not some official competition, just some internal stuff |
| 17:46 | <Smoovious> | why not... it is much better than talking about "those guys" |
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| 17:46 | <@Bjarni> | we are group no. 3 |
| 17:47 | <@Bjarni> | located between group no. 2 and group no. 4 |
| 17:47 | <Smoovious> | hmm... a little dry... needs something... .. . |
| 17:47 | <Smoovious> | :D |
| 17:47 | <@Bjarni> | it fits the numbers on the tables |
| 17:47 | <@Bjarni> | I like how the tables are numbered with 0 indexes :D |
| 17:47 | <@Bjarni> | usually real life numbering starts with 1, but in this case, it starts with 0 |
| 17:48 | <@Bjarni> | there is also a robot numbered 0 |
| 17:48 | <@Bjarni> | and stuff |
| 17:48 | <Smoovious> | used to watch those battlebot shows... got dissapointed quick cuz they were basically just doing remote-control... not real 'bots... but kept watching cuz of the carnage... now if they really were 'bots... that would have been excellent |
| 17:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | q.e.d. it is not real life |
| 17:49 | <Smoovious> | RC vehicles on steroids |
| 17:50 | <@Bjarni> | I once saw one of those battles... it was funny, but in an unintentional way. Some robot had a circular saw as the only weapon. It was too light to push the other robot, so it really only had the saw. When it hit the other robot, the force of the saw as so little that it just stopped instead of damaging the other one. Then it tried to make a run for it and attack with great speed because that increased saw speed.... then it fell off |
| 17:50 | <@Bjarni> | :D |
| 17:51 | <@Bjarni> | sounds like poor testing to me |
| 17:52 | <Smoovious> | hahaha... I think I know which one you mean |
| 17:52 | <@Bjarni> | however I don't like the whole idea of damaging other robots |
| 17:52 | <Smoovious> | the silliest one I think was this guy that basically made a facetted snake... |
| 17:52 | <@Bjarni> | they spent ages building them |
| 17:55 | <@Bjarni> | I was told about a competition where two robots had to pick up balls (or something), so they were two on the field at once. They headed for each other, so they tried to stop, but one of them got so close to the other one that the distance sensors entered their blind distance, so the other robot was gone in the input, so it speeded up again and they crashed.... one came out of it (the blinded one) and it learned where it was after th |
| 17:55 | <@Bjarni> | e accident so it did ok afterwards... the other one didn't realised that it had a push, so it was turned and acted like it was still heading in the same direction so it didn't do anything sane after that |
| 17:55 | <@Bjarni> | but it really was an accident |
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| 17:56 | <Smoovious> | yeah, I see some of those too... |
| 17:57 | <@Bjarni> | robots are cool |
| 17:57 | <@Bjarni> | but they can be damn tricky to deal with |
| 17:57 | <Smoovious> | actually had a team from my old high school in one... was cool... never had anything like that going on when I was still a student |
| 17:58 | <@Bjarni> | you had a robot in high school??? |
| 17:58 | <@Bjarni> | did it do your homework? |
| 17:58 | <@Bjarni> | :p |
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| 17:59 | <Smoovious> | no, I didn't... tech wasn't where it is now... but I was digging into computers a lot then... ~1980... I would have had a lot to offer to a robotics team... :) |
| 18:00 | <@Bjarni> | I like how the inside of our robot works... it's a micro ATX motherboard with a flash for HD and stuff running linux and the sensors, engine controllers and stuff are connected to the com ports |
| 18:00 | <@Bjarni> | which means that it can do what you expect of linux to do |
| 18:01 | <Smoovious> | back before computers were cool, much less mainstream... as far as I knew, I was the only one in the school who had a modem, much less an internet email |
| 18:01 | <@Bjarni> | heh |
| 18:01 | <@Bjarni> | reminds me of the C64 days.... I had a computer... they didn't |
| 18:01 | <Smoovious> | have you tried using any basic stamps to control some things and just report states to the motherboard? |
| 18:02 | <@Bjarni> | no |
| 18:02 | <Smoovious> | yeah... first one I owned was a CoCo-ii... took it apart, tweaked the circuitry... upgrading the ram needed a soldering iron... |
| 18:02 | <Smoovious> | before then, I was using a dumbterm/teletype with a few timeshare accounts |
| 18:04 | <Smoovious> | http://www.parallax.com <--- basic stamps |
| 18:04 | <@Bjarni> | hehe.. I remember when at school we had to see something really special... it was a computer, that was able to talk to computers in other towns using the phone lines, so we had a bus trip to another town to enter a really special room. It had like 8 computers or so and then we could pass into the nearby room with the really special computer where you put the normal phone on top of some device and then it could transmit text :o |
| 18:05 | <@Bjarni> | just text |
| 18:05 | <Smoovious> | I used a handful of them to automate the layout of a model railroad club I used to be in |
| 18:05 | <Smoovious> | an AsciiScope? |
| 18:06 | <@Bjarni> | so basically the class spent a whole day travelling to another town, seeing a computer with a modem, watching a specially trained person sending an email and then go home again |
| 18:06 | <Smoovious> | acoustic modem? (I started on one of those... only 75bps) |
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| 18:06 | <@Bjarni> | yeah, something like that |
| 18:07 | <Smoovious> | I mostly used a DecWriter-ii... trying to download a program formatted to 132cols when you only have 80col paper sucks. :D |
| 18:07 | <@Bjarni> | :P |
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| 18:22 | <Sacro> | !seen Bjarni |
| 18:22 | <_42_> | Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 3 minutes ago (20.06. 23:19) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 6 hours 12 minutes there. |
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| 19:55 | <Smoovious> | on one-way roads... what's the point of being able to set the red dot in between 2 yellow arrows? |
| 20:11 | <+glx> | to totally disallow vehicules to go through this road |
| 20:12 | <Smoovious> | can see that being used in a hostile manner... |
| 20:13 | <+glx> | like simple one way :) |
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| 20:56 | <Sacro> | sorting of industries is broken in the nightlies |
| 20:56 | <Sacro> | well, sorting by production is anyway |
| 21:21 | <@Belugas> | in what way? |
| 21:31 | <@Belugas> | sleep |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Jun 21 00:00:21 2007 |
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