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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-21

---Logopened Thu Jun 21 00:00:21 2007
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00:34<mic>hello, i have 2 a little simple questions about build under slopes :)
00:34<eekee>hihi! -- under?
00:34<mic>1) should we make puchased land slopable?
00:35<mic>2) should we make canals slopable?
00:35<Gekkko>1) yes, 2) no
00:35<Gekkko>water can't run up hills
00:35<Gekkko>and it would all rush down hill
00:36<Gekkko>you could make a kind of conveyer belt
00:36<mic>canals have edge
00:36<eekee>What do you meqan by slopable?
00:37<eekee>*mean
00:37<mic>slopable like build-on-slopes for roads and rails
00:37<mic>and stations
00:37<mic>(you can build them on slopes)
00:37<eekee>Ah ;) hmmm, I'm not sure
00:39<eekee>It's a question of realism, for me: Would the weight of the water be too much for the earth-works?
00:42<eekee>As to purchased land, I'd like to see it stay purchased when you raise or lower the terrain. Is that what you meant?
00:42<bencvt>i agree with eekee... canals with sidings would look odd
00:43<bencvt>eekee: mic's talking about this patch... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32622
00:43<eekee>*click*
00:43<mic>sloped puchased land http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=purchasedlandonslopewx7.png
00:44<bencvt>mic = Ev?i
00:44<bencvt>purchased land on slopes looks fine
00:44<mic>i am his PR representative =)
00:45<bencvt>heh
00:45<mic>"I'd like to see it stay purchased when you raise or lower the terrain" -- good idea i think :)
00:46<mic>but it is sold by now ((
00:46<bencvt>separate patch tho
00:48<mic>i meant actually... should other players be allowed to dig under puchased land (if it does not land's slope)?
00:48<Gekkko>is the sloped land purchase a small patch?
00:48<bencvt>i think so
00:49<Gekkko>might be inserted easily
00:49<Gekkko>if it doesnt require much management
00:49<bencvt>r/i think so/mic: i think so
00:49<mic>it is part of mine :) it is only display different - it draws foundation, nothing more
00:50<mic>but other player may dig purchased in a such way that it block (future) station exit
00:51<eekee>good question!
00:51<eekee>oops, didn't see the scroll
00:51<mic>e.i. you wont be able to build station for which you bought the land
00:51<mic>scroll? :)
00:52<bencvt>do you have a screenshot of such a scenario?
00:52<bencvt>i think i know what you're saying but i'm a visual kinda guy
00:52<eekee>I didn't see the scroll-bar wasn't all the way down
00:52<mic>ah
00:52<eekee>sorry
00:56<mic>here http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=purchasedlandonslope2vy1.png
00:58<bencvt>how's the end result any different than if blue bought those two tiles without digging down?
00:59<eekee>I don't like the idea of dig-under for purchased land
00:59<mic>you can not build road/rail/depot-exit/station-exit facing cliff
01:00<bencvt>ah, gotcha
01:00<mic>cliff->breakaway
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01:01<mic>then digging purchased land is crap probably :)
01:02<bencvt>yeah
01:02<bencvt>otoh, disallowing digging around bought land makes the buy land tool seem even more powerful
01:03<bencvt>in comparison to, e.g., rails
01:04<mic>what to do then you may suggest? )
01:05<bencvt>the 2nd option... disallow digging around bought land
01:05<bencvt>imho.
01:05<mic>as it is now )
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01:10<Phazorx>got interesting bug
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10240 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-21 08:03:49
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 30 fixed, 1 changed by WhiteRabbit (31)
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 1 fixed by thetitan (1)
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 25 fixed by kristjans (25)
01:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
01:10<Phazorx>any of decs available
01:10<Phazorx>to join coopers game?
01:10<Phazorx>devs
01:10<eekee>grr, keyboard died
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01:24<mic>canals on slopes
01:24<mic>http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canalsonslopesmk1.png
01:25<mic>need to edit pathfinding also :(
01:25<mic>how about this? :)
01:27<@peter1138>heh, ugly :)
01:29<mic>is it a good idea or crap? )
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01:32<mic>heh you are right, ships are going uphill-canals easily (without editing pathfinding) :))
01:33<hylje>:o
01:33<hylje>can you make locks work on slopes too?
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01:35<mic>not understood - lock are at slopes already
01:36<hylje>i mean on foundationed slope
01:36<mic>lock need 2 flat cells - you want them sloped?
01:36<hylje>drag some railway on a diagonal slope, and you see what i mean
01:38<mic>again not :)
01:38<mic>explain please )
01:39<Phazorx>peter1138: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/11.PNG
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01:39<Phazorx>hylje: you'll like this
01:39<lordofthepigs>Hello!
01:40<hylje>well normally locks are placed on a "normal" slope: let's say it's positioned like this: |
01:40<lordofthepigs>Can anyone explain to me how to use the new vehicle groups interface?
01:40<mic>you mean drag rail at 45 to slope?
01:40<hylje>no
01:40<lordofthepigs>I don't understand how to add vehicles to a group
01:40<mic>continue
01:40<Phazorx>exit/combo pre-signal above tunnel is giving false reading to enter signal
01:40<hylje>but to have full use of the foundationed canal, locks should be able to be built on not only |, but diagonal (\ and /, respectively) slope too
01:42<mic>diagonal: 1 or 3 spikes?
01:42<mic>or any?
01:42<hylje>spikes?
01:43<Noldo>Phazorx: what happens if you remove the rail that goes in the same direction with the tunnel?
01:44<mic>i think i understood :)
01:44<mic>yes, lock can be slopes too, but it also need to be coded :)
01:44<Gekkko>Phazorx: wtf two lights?
01:44<Gekkko>how do you do that?!
01:45<Gekkko>I know newgrf
01:45<Gekkko>I ask stupid questions, i should just ask where to get it
01:45<Phazorx>Noldo: what do you mean'
01:45<Phazorx>Gekkko: dont get ur queastion
01:45<Gekkko>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/11.PNG
01:45<Gekkko>theres signals with two lights
01:45<Gekkko>instead of just one
01:45<Noldo>Gekkko: presignals, old as hell
01:45<Phazorx>have you hear about presignals>?
01:45<Gekkko>no, I'm too young :P
01:46<Noldo>Phazorx: the on top of the tunnel going in the same direction as the tunnel on a square diagonally adjacent to the buggy signal
01:47<Phazorx>Noldo: it is a part of priority window
01:47<Phazorx>it i remove it construction does not work
01:48<@peter1138>lordofthepigs: drag from the vehicle list to the group list
01:48<Noldo>Phazorx: then move it so that it doesn't fit the tunnel entrance
01:48<Phazorx>Noldo: i removed it - doesnt matter
01:48<Noldo>Phazorx: ok
01:49<Phazorx>oops it does when a train passes
01:49<lordofthepigs>peter1138: Did you end up implementing the cool feature that would let you group vehicles based on their orders?
01:49<Phazorx>but then construction does not work
01:49<Phazorx>now
01:49<Phazorx>if i remove tunnel under light
01:49<Phazorx>not the one aboe that track
01:49<Phazorx>it is fixed
01:49<@peter1138>not me
01:49<Phazorx>light = semaphore
01:50<@peter1138>got it
01:50<@peter1138>that bug was fixed, but only for normal signals it seems
01:50<mic>hylje: i am concerned if i should code sloped canals as well as other will like it and it would be included anywhere :)
01:50<@peter1138>and i didn't get it because i copied your 1.png, not 11.png
01:50<Phazorx>peter1138: i have normal signal there
01:51<Phazorx>one that shows the bug at least
01:51<@peter1138>hmm?
01:51<@peter1138>no it's a presignal
01:51<Phazorx>the one that stays red at 11.png
01:51<Phazorx>i figured that
01:51<Phazorx>one above tunnel
01:51<@peter1138>if you change it to a normal signal it doesn't stay red
01:51<@peter1138>therefore
01:52<Phazorx>it does here :/
01:52<@peter1138>the bugfix only worked for normal signals. hmm.
01:52<Phazorx>wait peter1138 is it a fix for one which is red or for one which is above tunnel ?
01:52<@peter1138>hmm
01:53<@peter1138>hmmmmmm
01:53<Phazorx>the save i have, with untouched tunnels has it with any combination of types of signals
01:54<Phazorx>and with last oen being combo or exit
01:54<Phazorx>only way to fix it temporary is removing middle or last one
01:54<Phazorx>perma fix is removing the tunnel
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01:55<dihedral>good morning ladies :-)
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01:57<@peter1138>ok
01:57<@peter1138>that's ... strange
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01:58<@peter1138>the buggy one only gets stuck if the signal on the tunnel is a presignal
01:59<Phazorx>and bug occurs only if tracks above tunnels are goign in same direction as tunnel
01:59<@peter1138>huh?
02:00<Phazorx>if they are changed to lead to the lane instead of crossing it
02:00<@peter1138>oh, yes, them
02:00<Phazorx>it fixes the issue
02:00<Phazorx>i think signals logic somhoe sees tunnels as linking factor
02:01<Phazorx>if tracks above are somewhat connecttable from brid viewpoint
02:03<Noldo>shouldn't it use the same track following thing as the train itself?
02:04<Phazorx>???
02:04<Ailure>hmmm
02:08<hylje>how's yiff.grf going off? D:
02:08<Ailure>:p
02:10<mic>am i the only who have noticed that half-desert with something built on it, is drawn as green?
02:10<Ailure>no
02:11<mic>it is a feature or unfixable bug?
02:12<Ailure>neither
02:13<Ailure>more like
02:13<Ailure>limitation of the game engine
02:13<Ailure>It's related to how the array works
02:14<mic>hm, i see
02:16<Phazorx>peter1138: i take it you dont need the save
02:26<@peter1138>mmm, bacon
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02:44<Maedhros>good morning
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02:53<dihedral>morning
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03:45<mic>i think headers in openttd are veeeeerrry bloated
03:45<mic>am sure, reducing headers will reducin compilation time 5-50 times
03:46<mic>*will reduce
03:46<hylje>really?
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03:47<mic>c file include 3 headers... they include 10 header ... they include 50 header... they include ALL header
03:47<mic>as result ALL source files are compiles will ALL headers inside
03:48<mic>with thousands useless typedef, prototypes, templates, inline function, enums etc etc etc and only 1% of it is used
03:49<hylje>:o
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03:49<hylje>propagation is evil
03:50<@peter1138>not all
03:50<@peter1138>many though
03:50<Biff>hmm, only takes 30 seconds to compile anyway
03:51<Biff>could you save that much?
03:51<@peter1138>for you :p
03:51<Biff>correct :p
03:51<@peter1138>takes 5 or 6 minutes for me
03:51<Biff>really?
03:51<Biff>Oo
03:52<Biff>for me i think the problem is compiling over nfs
03:53<Biff>it may take longer over nfs, 30seconds is local disk
03:55<Biff>hmm, takes alot longer on a p4 2.8
03:56<Biff>i've heard the same about compiling on bsd vs compiling on linux, that bsd is alot faster, because they have much smaller headers
03:56<Biff>real 2m12.612s
03:57<@peter1138>tron put it down to fork time or something like that
04:12<Biff>fork time?
04:12<Biff>fork time is 0 isnt it?
04:24<@peter1138>nothing is 0 time
04:24<Sionide>hrm
04:25<Sionide>i got some errors from clear_cmd.cpp i think
04:25<Sionide>from r10240
04:28<@peter1138>cool
04:28<@peter1138>i like how informative "some errors" is
04:29[~]Sionide pastebins it
04:30<Sionide>peter1138, http://pastebin.ca/580957
04:30<Sionide>that's trying r10236
04:30<@peter1138>10:23 < Sionide> from r10240
04:30<@peter1138>bzzt
04:30<@peter1138>10236 is not 10240
04:31<@peter1138>use 10240
04:31<Sionide>yeah i tried 10236 cos that was the revision mentioned on the forums
04:31<Sionide>ok
04:31<@peter1138>always use latest
04:31<@peter1138>it's not going to be removed
04:31<@peter1138>(unless it's pbs, hah)
04:32<Sionide>reload
04:32<Sionide>http://pastebin.ca/580960
04:32<Sionide>oh it's a new url *shrug*
04:32<Sionide>there
04:32<Sionide>10240
04:33<Maedhros>have you got any local changes in there?
04:33<Sionide>not that i know of
04:34<Maedhros>run svn diff to find out ;)
04:37<Sionide>i see some changes
04:37<Sionide>changes to english.txt, clear_cmd.cpp, viewport.cpp, signs_gui.cpp, signs.h, signs.cpp and main_gui.cpp
04:38<@peter1138>heh
04:38<@peter1138>revert them then
04:42<Sionide>:s
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04:45<@peter1138>or fix the conflicts
04:46|-|TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
04:47<TheJosh>hey all
04:47<TheJosh>anyone with svn access want to make a few dollars?
04:47<hylje>:o
04:47<hylje>monies
04:48<TheJosh>do you have svn access hylje?
04:48<hylje>yes but not to ottd, apart from anon
04:48<TheJosh>ung
04:49<TheJosh>i have svn access to a project at work, but that doesnt help here
04:49<hylje>D:
04:51<TheJosh>i guess the only thing I can do is fix a heap of bugs in FlySpray, then my patches will get to the top quicker
04:51<TheJosh>well im off
04:51<hylje>:o
04:51<TheJosh>cya all
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04:54<Sionide>wtf?
04:54<Noldo>don't ask
04:54<TrueBrain>too bad
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04:55<dihedral>lol
04:56<dihedral>that was actually quite cute
04:56<dihedral>TrueBrain: may i bother you for a bit?
04:56<TrueBrain>you can try
04:56<TrueBrain>I won't respond if I don't have time :)
04:57<dihedral>could you have a look at http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/docs/
04:57<dihedral>and http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/example.php
04:57<dihedral>if dns should hot have propagated fully yet, http://joshua.dihedral.de/openttdlib is a symlink :-)
04:58<TrueBrain>delays in new subdomains are rare :)
04:58<TrueBrain>so first urls work fine
04:59<TrueBrain>what did WizKid ever do for the lib?
04:59<dihedral>i have no idea - but you said in a comment that you continued the work from WizKid
04:59<TrueBrain>WizKid only made the site-design
04:59<TrueBrain>once
04:59<TrueBrain>a draft
04:59<TrueBrain>he wasn't a PHP coder :)
05:00<TrueBrain>so you can safely remove it
05:00<dihedral>shall do :-)
05:02<dihedral>anything else?
05:02<TrueBrain>and as email you can give my @openttd.org email :p
05:02<TrueBrain>Mwhahaha :)
05:02<TrueBrain>the documentation is very nice
05:02<TrueBrain>just remove WizKid from all the pages :p
05:03<TrueBrain>really nice job on the docs, easy to read, should be easy for everyone to add
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05:04<dihedral>thanks
05:05<dihedral>then after i have removed those references i shall make a zip and put it in the forums :-)
05:05<TrueBrain>sounds like a plan :)
05:07<dihedral>truelight or truebrain befor the at?
05:15<mic>i made some script to analyze how many headers are included from each source file
05:16<mic>here is example part of results for openttd:
05:16<mic>excuse me for spam :)
05:16<mic>heightmap.cpp: 14 direct includes, 43 total includes.
05:16<mic>ship_gui.cpp: 14 direct includes, 50 total includes.
05:16<mic>fileio.cpp: 9 direct includes, 16 total includes.
05:16<mic>window.cpp: 15 direct includes, 34 total includes.
05:16<mic>unmovable_cmd.cpp: 21 direct includes, 44 total includes.
05:16<mic>map.cpp: 8 direct includes, 12 total includes.
05:16<mic>order_gui.cpp: 24 direct includes, 48 total includes.
05:16<mic>newgrf_sound.cpp: 9 direct includes, 36 total includes.
05:16<mic>water_cmd.cpp: 26 direct includes, 56 total includes.
05:16<mic>economy.cpp: 38 direct includes, 70 total includes.
05:16<mic>news_gui.cpp: 16 direct includes, 39 total includes.
05:16<mic>vehicle_gui.cpp: 30 direct includes, 59 total includes.
05:16<mic>50 includes!
05:16<Rubidium>mic: we know that very well
05:17<Rubidium>but decreasing that dependency is pretty hard to do
05:17<blathijs>mic: there's 70 includes for economy.cpp even :-)
05:18<Rubidium>and the real problem is that most includes are included for their type definitions and not the inlined functions they contain, whereas the headers need to include other headers for the inline functions
05:18<blathijs>Rubidium: We could simply put everything in one big cpp file: No more includes!
05:19<ln->that's onviously the best solution.
05:19<blathijs>(in other words, having many includes might also be because the declarations are properly divided into very small pieces, not neccesarily bad)
05:21<mic>simply suggestion: make functions not-inline :) it is doubtful if they speed up anything )
05:21<mic>but it will speed up compile a lot
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05:22<Rubidium>mic: function call versus "return _m[x].m2". I really think that matters a lot
05:23<Rubidium>mic: I can assure you that they speed things up considerably
05:23<ln->seeing some sort of graph of the include relations would be more interesting than just numbers.
05:25<mic>if you need inlines, compile with -O3 not -O2 then, and remove impilcit inlines
05:26<Rubidium>mic: you still need to put them in the headers
05:27<mic>no, compiler make small functions inline
05:27<mic>for -O3
05:28<Rubidium>not when they are in a different compilation unit (gcc isn't that smart yet AFAIK)
05:28<mic>shit
05:31<@peter1138>easy
05:31<@peter1138>cat *.h *.cpp > onebigsource.cpp
05:31<TrueBrain>dihedral: truelight@
05:32<blathijs>Rubidium: That requires changes in the linker and the object format, so won't really work
05:32<blathijs>Rubidium: Though there is some work in that area for template instantiations in the linker, might be related
05:33<TrueBrain>[12:21] <mic> simply suggestion: make functions not-inline :) it is doubtful if they speed up anything ) <- just for fun run OpenTTD with ./configure, and one time with CFLAGS="-fno-inline" ./configure
05:33<TrueBrain>see if it matters :)
05:33<Rubidium>I'd really like an optimization at link time. That way we can put all declarations in headers and the implementations of even the easiest map accessor functions in .cpp
05:34<@peter1138>make them defines!
05:34<mic>err speed? compare speed of binary?
05:34<TrueBrain>Rubidium: would take for EVER! :)
05:34<TrueBrain>mic: try comparing in-game speed, might be useful :)
05:35<TrueBrain>but what peter1138 suggests might work best Rubidium ;)
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05:36<@peter1138>use c#! no headers at all ;)
05:36<TrueBrain> @kick peter1138
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05:39<@peter1138>how does gcc treat it if you specify multiple source files in one go?
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05:43<Tefad>er?
05:43<@peter1138>hmm?
05:43<Tefad>gcc foo.c bar.c bas.c -o exec ?
05:43<@peter1138>yes
05:44<Tefad>i'm confused
05:44<@peter1138>why?
05:44<Tefad>treat.. what
05:44<@peter1138>"compilation units"
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05:45<Tefad>it.. compiles them
05:45[~]Tefad shrugs
05:45<@peter1138>clearly you are not the person to answer the question then :)
05:45<TrueBrain>clearly
05:45[~]Tefad shrugs
05:45<Tefad>i'm not sure what the question is
05:46<Tefad>it certainly doesn't treat the files with pesticides..
05:46<Tefad>what i mean is i lack clear context
05:53<mic>"<ln-> seeing some sort of graph of the include relations would be more interesting than just numbers." -- graph is about 1 Mb, still cannot make picture (several minutes already) :)
06:00<@peter1138>11:25 < mic> no, compiler make small functions inline
06:00<@peter1138>11:25 < mic> for -O3
06:00<@peter1138>11:26 < Rubidium> not when they are in a different compilation unit (gcc isn't that smart yet AFAIK)
06:00<@peter1138>Tefad: that's the context
06:01<Tefad>ah ha
06:01<Tefad>gcc lacks a few things
06:01<Tefad>mostly relating to optimization
06:02<@peter1138>i was wondering if it knew how to handle it if it was told to compile all source at once
06:03<Tefad>perhaps if all the files were concatenated
06:03<Tefad>i think that's how some projects mangle their files
06:03<mic>noooo ))
06:03<@peter1138>hehe
06:03<Tefad>(KDE maybe?)
06:03<@peter1138>would take a while to compile :)
06:07<Rubidium>ooh, nice
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06:07<hylje>:o
06:10<Maedhros>kdeenablefinal is a killer... it took 1.5Gb of ram + swap to compile kmail
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06:11<mic>sorry i can not make graph :)
06:12<mic>-dev-hda6 5779468 5485944 0 100% -
06:14<@peter1138>hehe
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06:26<mic>"_headers_dependency_graph.png: PNG image data, 96341 x 1321, 4-bit colormap, non-interlaced" --- so, i think headers dependency graphs drawing is bad idea ))
06:26<hylje>:o
06:26<hylje>that's kind of large!
06:26<mic>i can't open it :)
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07:19<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/bigtruck.PNG
07:20<Ailure>I should use this somewhere
07:20<Ailure>10 points for anyone who knows the joke
07:26<Rubidium>long vehicles are ugly, unless they are articulated vehicles?
07:26<hylje>mm
07:26<hylje>articulated trucks
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07:37[~]TrueBrain makes a dance: prelimary testing shows 32bpp-anim is faster in palette animation over 8bpp-optimized :) :) :) :)
07:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10241 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
07:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: CopyToBuffer now produces a buffer that is unreadable from outside the blitter, so the blitter can store anything he likes
07:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: added CopyImageToBuffer, which produces a readable buffer for screenshots
07:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: 32bpp-anim now holds animation on transparent objects to avoid strange graphical effects
07:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: 32bpp-anim now works correct on mouse-movement (it holds the palette animation correctly)
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07:43<Ailure>[14:23] <Rubidium> long vehicles are ugly, unless they are articulated vehicles?
07:43<Ailure>wtf
07:43<Ailure>xD
07:43<Ailure>More ted stevens
07:43<Ailure>:p
07:43<Ailure>oh well
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07:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10242 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix: avoid a segfault if you move your mouse at startup with 32bpp-anim
07:49<Noldo>:)
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07:56<Chris82>hi :)
07:56<Chris82>just a quick question, what is this timetable thing in the latest trunk?
07:59<SmatZ>hello, since r10207, I can't destroy anything ( I have over 1<<32 Euros )
08:00<SmatZ>"Not enough cash - requires e288"
08:00<SmatZ>probably known problem...
08:03<Rubidium>SmatZ: does the patch of FS#904 solve that issue?
08:04<Noldo>Chris82: check who committed it and ask him
08:05<SmatZ>Rubidium: I will try
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08:08<Rubidium>Chris82: check the forum first
08:09<SmatZ>Rubidium: I can't make it compile...
08:09<Chris82>kk Rubidium
08:10<Rubidium>SmatZ: which one did you take?
08:11<SmatZ>Rubidium: I used both, I will try only the first now
08:12<SmatZ>Rubidium: when applied only the   mo_money_r10239.diff , it works
08:13<SmatZ>it seems to correct this problem
08:13<Rubidium>ok, that's all I need to know
08:15<dihedral>guys, check it out, OpenTTDLib with it's first release :-)
08:15<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=599640#599640
08:16<hylje>:o
08:18<Rubidium>dihedral: I think you have to document those [vehicle] arrays a little (what index refers to what vehicle type)
08:19<dihedral>that's on the todo list :-)
08:19<dihedral>also fetching newgrf data is still to be done
08:20<Rubidium>that's tricky
08:20<dihedral>why is that
08:21<Rubidium>UDP packets are not certain to arrive -> retries etc.
08:21<Rubidium>on the other hand, you can do quite a lot of caching of newgrf data
08:21<dihedral>its the same for all the other queries that are made
08:21<dihedral>only using udp
08:22<Rubidium>true, but when the first query fails, you've got nothing. When the newgrf query fails you've got half of the information
08:22<dihedral>what do you mean?
08:22<dihedral>i get one packet with newgrf names and one packet with the md5 sums?
08:27<Rubidium>in the "normal" query packet you only get the md5 sum + grf id
08:27<dihedral>that's enough is it not?
08:27<Rubidium>retrieving the name of the newgrf needs to be done using another query
08:27<Rubidium>dihedral: grf id + md5sum says nothing to users
08:27<dihedral>unless there is a mapping somewhere (newgrf crawler?)
08:27<Rubidium>grfcrawler doesn't map md5sums nor has all grf ids
08:27<dihedral>well - i shall give up after trying a few times :-)
08:27<Rubidium>dihedral: http://www.openttd.org/server_detail.php?id=4826 <- click on search for all above GRFs and you'll see that quite a few aren't in grfcrawler
08:27<dihedral>yes i know that, which is quite sad actually :-P
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08:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10243 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix: crash when resizing with 32bpp and 'broken' display with 'non-standard' resolutions
08:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10244 /trunk/src/ (blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp blitter/32bpp_anim.hpp texteff.cpp): -Fix: make sure to let 32bpp-anim report the increased buffer-size it needs
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08:47<AntB>is there any comprehensive downloadable guides on making new GRF
08:48<@peter1138>well you can download the specifications
08:48<@peter1138>but it's not really a guide
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08:56<AntB>I think i got the specs. I downloaded what was in the package what was on the TTDPatch site
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10245 /trunk/src/blitter/ (7 files): -Codechange: added GetName also to all Blitters, instead of only the Factory
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09:06<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/openTTD/Ailuro%20Transports,%2015th%20Jan%202038.png
09:06<Ailure>hehe
09:06<Ailure>talk about overkill
09:06<hylje>thats some trucks
09:06<SmatZ>:)
09:06<Ailure>Taken for long time ago too
09:06<Ailure>I was messing aroudn in mini-in
09:06<@peter1138>yeah, miniin :p
09:06<Ailure>exprimentating with the subsidaries patch
09:06<Ailure>yeah
09:06<Ailure>Diagonal tracks over road
09:06<hylje>why didnt that get trunked
09:06<Ailure>and the diffrent coloured aircrafts on the airport
09:06<Ailure>It was fun, but miniin was too unstable for my taste
09:06<Ailure>so I only used it for one game
09:07<Ailure>I liked the track sharing part of subsidaries patch
09:07<Ailure>I always wanted to run a multiplayer game where severeal companies shares a track
09:07<dihedral>will diagonal tracks over road ever get trunked?
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09:08<Ailure>well they're kinda less needed now though
09:08<Chris82>hi
09:08<Ailure>since you can do bridges over diagonal rails
09:08<Ailure>or hell, over any combination of rails
09:08<dihedral>:-P
09:09<Ailure>I remember putting insane setups below rail before
09:09<Ailure>for fun
09:09<Chris82>what's a possible reason that a server is shown as offline here http://www.openttd.org/servers.php although it's online for an hour already (svn build)
09:09<dihedral>config setting?
09:09<dihedral>advertise?
09:09<Chris82>well I use the same config settings on all my servers, and the others are all shown
09:10<dihedral>udp port to the game closed?
09:10<Chris82>advertise and stuff is properly set
09:10<Rubidium>the udp query packets couldn't reach it for several times
09:10<Chris82>nope, firewall doesn't block the port
09:10<Chris82>is there a console command to re-advertise?
09:10<dihedral>what game ist it (address?)
09:10<Chris82>85.190.1.233 and port let me check
09:10<Rubidium>Chris82: it will readvertise every 15 minutes
09:12<Chris82>port 63514 (Experimental Endless Game)
09:12<Chris82>the 0.5.2 servers all advertise fine
09:12<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/openTTD/Sentwood%20Transport,%208th%20Feb%201920.png
09:12<Ailure>I made lots of silly setups like this one
09:12<Ailure>becuse it's fun to do stuff that used to be impossible for over a decade
09:12<SmatZ>:)
09:12<dihedral>is the game paused?
09:12<Chris82>yes it's paused
09:12<Chris82>is that the reason?
09:12<Ailure>a paused server shouldn't make any diffrence
09:13<dihedral>i dont know - just saw the game data did not change
09:13<Ailure>some servs are paused all the time <<
09:13<Ailure>until a player comes along
09:13<dihedral>true
09:13<Chris82>yeah the server started in paused state
09:13<Chris82>Ailure: True, my 0.5.2 are configured that way
09:13<Chris82>so this shouldn't be the problem
09:13<dihedral>nope
09:13<dihedral>and i can reach your game on udp...
09:14<dihedral>just wait another 10 - 15 mins
09:15<dihedral>should running newgame not also advertise?
09:15<Chris82>I tried to restart a few times, and the server is now running for like 2 hours already
09:15<Chris82>just checked netstat, the port is definitely reachable
09:16<dihedral>netstat does not include possible firewall settings!
09:16<Chris82>is it maybe because the version of the server changed very often the last days?
09:16<Ailure>hmm
09:16<Ailure>wonder what I should try in my next game
09:16<Ailure>xd
09:16<Ailure>I have no idea what type of game I want to do
09:17<Chris82>netstat -an should show me all opened ports?
09:17<Biff>no, openttd doesnt work today :(
09:17<Chris82>when they're firewalled they're not open
09:17<Rubidium>Chris82: it's just that some packet got lost when your server was queried by the masterserver (at least if other servers from you are shown at the server list)
09:18<dihedral>btw: its written Experimental
09:18<Chris82>oops yeah
09:19<dihedral>your game aint even in the offline list :-P
09:19<Chris82>Experimantal Endless Game Offline < I see it there tho?
09:20<Chris82>just renamed the server and restarted, maybe it works now
09:20<Rubidium>Chris82: what ports does your firewall let through?
09:20<Biff>hmm, newest openttd does nothing when i start it
09:20<dihedral>searched for experimEntal :-P
09:21<Biff>even --help does nothing, just returns
09:21<Chris82>well it's configured to allow the openttd.exe, so it allows dynamically any port that openttd wants to use
09:21<TrueBrain>Biff: try -h
09:21<dihedral>i was able to query i...
09:21<TrueBrain>Chris82: use a port < 60000
09:21<Biff>magne@mean:~/src/openttd/bin$ openttd -h
09:21<Biff>magne@mean:~/src/openttd/bin$
09:21<Biff>nothing :/
09:21<TrueBrain>Biff: try ./openttd -h
09:22<Chris82>is it bad to use such a high port number? all my servers have a port > 60000
09:22<Biff>hmm, that worked for some strange reason (it points to the same binary)
09:22<Biff>but ./openttd does not work
09:22<TrueBrain>it should be alright, but > 60000 is normally used for MASQUARADE
09:22<TrueBrain>Biff: there is a big difference between 'openttd' and './openttd'
09:22<Biff>TrueBrain: yes, i know
09:22<Chris82>I'll remember that :) will be easy to change them
09:22<TrueBrain>see if it works, just a guess
09:23<Biff>but the one found in path is a script which starts the same binary
09:23<Biff>but ./openttd doesnt work, just returns
09:23<TrueBrain>run ./openttd -d
09:23<Rubidium>Biff: but if ./openttd doesn't work, the script isn't going to work either
09:23<Rubidium>is there actually an executable ./openttd?
09:23<Biff>yes, else it would say command not found
09:24<Biff>-d also just returns
09:24<Rubidium>how large is the binary?
09:24<TrueBrain>./openttd -d9
09:24<@peter1138>-d does nothing on its own
09:24<Biff>i'll try recompilng
09:24<TrueBrain>peter1138: yeah, I forgot :)
09:24<@peter1138>TrueBrain: i thought it defaulted to max to be honest
09:25<Chris82>hmmm I just noticed some weird output on the console when starting the server
09:25<hylje>-d99999999999
09:25<Biff>that created a lot of output
09:25<Chris82>first it says [net] listening on x.x.x.x:port
09:25<Chris82>then [udp] .... same ip and port
09:25<Chris82>and then another time [udp] listening on port 0.0.0.0:0
09:26<TrueBrain>Biff: so the binary works ;) Now find what fails :p :p
09:26<Biff>http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/debug.txt
09:26<TrueBrain>Biff: dedicated server compile?
09:26<Biff>hmm, Custom .grf has invalid format
09:26<@peter1138>dbg: [driver] Successfully probed video driver 'null'
09:26<Biff>hmm
09:26<TrueBrain>Biff: as you don't have sdl compiled
09:27<TrueBrain>so what you expect OpenTTD to do?
09:27<@peter1138>please compile with a video driver :p
09:27<Biff>i did make clean; make
09:27<TrueBrain>try ./configure --with-sdl
09:27<Biff>maybe i should try configure
09:27<Biff>i compiled on a machine without x earlier, but i didnt run configure first, hmm
09:28<dihedral>i always compile on a machine with no x
09:28<Biff>but thanks
09:28<Biff>yeah, i guess you just need the sdl libraries, which is probably missing
09:29<dihedral>nono - YOU need the sdl libraries... i already have them :-P
09:29<Biff>yeah, but my server doesnt
09:29<Biff>so it must have executed ./configure by itself or something
09:29<TrueBrain>Biff: it doesn't
09:29<TrueBrain>as it can't
09:30<TrueBrain>at some stage you did a ./configure
09:30<TrueBrain>and it did tell you that without SDL
09:30<TrueBrain>you won't have a video driver
09:30<Biff>hmm, maybe, i must have been sleeping or something then :P
09:30<TrueBrain>that we can't help
09:30<TrueBrain>we can fix and try to avoid tons of things
09:30<TrueBrain>but only till a certain level
09:30<TrueBrain>we can't fix the user :)
09:31<Biff>hmm, then there was the money problem
09:32<Biff>even tho i have lots of money it says i cant afford things like bulldozer station
09:32<Biff>http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/Gl%c3%b8slia%20Transport,%2029th%20Jun%202035.png
09:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10246 /trunk/src/ (25 files in 4 dirs): -Fix (r10297): some forgotten money conversions and truncation issues. Thanks to benc for providing the patch.
09:32<Rubidium>*10207
09:33<Biff>i'll try
09:33<dihedral>remove the Makefile and have it written when ./configure is done :-)
09:34<Biff>Rubidium: worked now
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09:49<SmatZ>why is tunnel's price limited to 400 000 000 ?
09:51<Caemyr>lawl
09:51<Rubidium>so it wouldn't overflow as easy in the "old" system?
09:52<SmatZ>I don't know, maybe
09:52<SmatZ>will the 400 000 000 limit be increased now?
09:52<SmatZ>if there is no other reason
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09:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10247 /trunk/src/ (22 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r10210): *always* call SetDParamMoney when you want to place money in some string.
09:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10248 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: don't limit the cost of tunnels.
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10:06<SmatZ>Rubidium: thanks, I feel better now :) but there is a little problem - when I try to build a tunnel over whole 2048x2048 map, I get estimated price -2 euro (and cannot build it anyway)
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10:07<dihedral>lol
10:07<Rubidium>that doesn't sound right ;)
10:07<dihedral>that does not sound good either :-P
10:07<Rubidium>SmatZ: savegame?
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10:10<SmatZ>I just made a map in a scenario editor and then started it - http://88.146.45.107/ttd/UNNAMED4.scn
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10:12<@peter1138>heh, locks up when leveling a 2048x2048 map
10:12<SmatZ>it takes ages when I put mouse cursor at the coast to build a tunnel
10:12<@peter1138>yes
10:12<SmatZ>peter1138: surely lock up?
10:13<@peter1138>ok, not a lock up, but very slow
10:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10249 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#906]: town tried to gather information about the neighbourhood of a tile when it couldn't even *ever* build on that tile.
10:14<SmatZ>peter1138: yes :) the code of drawing of selected sprites is probably very slow, maybe it is trying to draw tiles outside the viewport?
10:15<SmatZ>maybe not...
10:15<Rubidium>SmatZ: it's determining till where it can build the tunnel
10:16<dihedral>what would you expect?
10:17<dihedral>on a 2048 you would expect it to be quite some itterating to do... or not?
10:18<dihedral>*be=have
10:18<SmatZ>yes, I see now - IsTunnelInWay(end_tile, start_z) is called 2048 times, and it takes very long time to determine if there is not any tunnel
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10:19<Caemyr>can it be optimized?
10:20<Caemyr>if no - maybe some progressbar would be usefull?
10:20<SmatZ>I think it can
10:20<Caemyr>with title like "Calculating tunnel lenght"
10:20<SmatZ>IsTunnelInWay tests all directions, even those you are trying to build at
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10:21<Caemyr>not everytime, but after a fixed number of IsTunnelInWay() iterations
10:21<SmatZ>it should be sufficient to test only the orthogonal directions, and only in that direction that is more near to the edge
10:21<Caemyr>hmm
10:22<SmatZ>Caemyr: maybe :)
10:23<Caemyr>and cancel button
10:23<Caemyr>but think mp game
10:23<SmatZ>:-D
10:23<Caemyr>it could lag the server:P
10:24<SmatZ>only building the tunnel would lag the server - and you would need a lot of money to build so long tunnel :)
10:25<Caemyr>possibly:)
10:25<Caemyr>still its possible?
10:25<SmatZ>what?
10:26<Caemyr>to lag the server this way
10:27<SmatZ>yes, but - it will lag the server for 10,20 seconds
10:27<Caemyr>ah
10:27<Caemyr>k
10:27<SmatZ>and you would need a lot of money
10:27<SmatZ>but with a modified client
10:27<SmatZ>you wouldn't
10:27<SmatZ>maybe even with a normal client...
10:27<hylje>uh, what
10:27<hylje>vimacs
10:28<dihedral>TrueBrain: how often do you get this "why is my game not being advertised"?
10:28<TrueBrain>dihedral: less often nowedays then it used to be
10:28<TrueBrain>why?
10:29<@peter1138>SmatZ: so do it ;)
10:30<dihedral>a webform so others can check if some the masterserver gan access the game :-)
10:30<dihedral>*-some
10:30<dihedral>*-gan +can
10:31<SmatZ>peter1138: I just tested it - my client got disconnected, because its computations took too long :)
10:31<@peter1138>hehe
10:32<dihedral>lol
10:35<Caemyr>lawl
10:36<Rubidium>SmatZ: the -2 is because it "wrapped" around when converting INT64_MAX pounds to euros
10:37<Rubidium>because that's just "money" * 2
10:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10250 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: money is always 64 bits, so always parse those 64 bits.
10:37<Rubidium>if you set it to pounds you'll see the correct amount
10:37<SmatZ>peter1138: with a modified client, it is possible to choke the server this way
10:37<SmatZ>Rubidium: even with pounds I get -1 pound as the price
10:38<Rubidium>svn up ;)
10:38<SmatZ>:)
10:38<@peter1138>:o
10:39<SmatZ>my duron 1300 as server is still computing :-D
10:40<SmatZ>and still
10:40<Rubidium>I see only one solution: adding the end tile of the tunnel to the parameter and first check whether it's affordable and then check whether it's buildable
10:42<SmatZ>probably ... checking inside the loop if the player has enough money is probably not possible
10:42|-|Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
10:43<SmatZ>but on a real server, there won't be so big flat lands :) the check would take much less time
10:44<Smoovious>and after seeing if it is buildable, conidering terrain only, now you have the start and endpoints, check through the list of tunnels... ignore tunnels on a different elevation, ignore tunnels with the same X on its endpoints, if the one you're building has the same X on its own endpoints (and they aren't the same X)
10:44|-|Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
10:44|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
10:44<Smoovious>then that leaves only having to check the other values... does your X fall in between the left over tunnel' Y's
10:44<SmatZ>there is not any list of tunnels atm
10:45<SmatZ> return IsTunnelInWayDir(tile, z, DIAGDIR_NE) || IsTunnelInWayDir(tile, z, DIAGDIR_SE) || IsTunnelInWayDir(tile, z, DIAGDIR_SW) || IsTunnelInWayDir(tile, z, DIAGDIR_NW);
10:45|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5E67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:45<SmatZ>^^^ isn't checking in all 4 direction useless?
10:45<Smoovious>well, there has to be some way for it to know there is a tunnell...
10:45<SmatZ>yes, it checks in all directions till it finds and z < tunnel_z
10:45<Rubidium>SmatZ: yes it's useless
10:46<SmatZ>and then checks if it is a tunnel tile
10:47<Smoovious>ok... well, if there is no index of tunnels in the code, then perhaps it should keep one... would make checking for them a lot less work
10:48<Smoovious>would then make having non-standard tunnels easier to deal with too... ones that curve, or change elevation... .. .
10:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10251 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix (r10186, FS#907): alt-tab back into openttd could leave the taskbar visible
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10:49<@peter1138>hmm
10:49<@peter1138>Rubidium: even with end tile you need to check each tile
10:49<Smoovious>could use the same index for bridges too
10:49<SmatZ>finally, the server's computation finished :)
10:49<@peter1138>heh
10:49<dihedral>lol
10:49<Rubidium>peter1138: well, you can do cost calculation first, which is pretty fast
10:50<@peter1138>yes
10:50<SmatZ>peter1138: yes, but when you know the player cannot afford it anyway, you dont need to check for crossing tunnels
10:51<dihedral>would it not be faster to itterate over existing tunnels built on the same level and check if they use that tile
10:51<Smoovious>or continue to check for crossing tunnels, so he doen't have to wait around until he can afford it only to find it isn't b uildable
10:52<dihedral>rather than itterating each tile your tunnel would be built through?
10:52<Smoovious>not enough to catch the tunnel pieces in between the endpoints
10:54<@peter1138>iterate existing tunnels, eh?
10:54<dihedral>was just a thought!!
10:54<@peter1138>requires a full map scan, but that can't be that slow, can it?
10:54<dihedral>lol
10:54<dihedral>thought there was perhaps some sort of 'tunnel list'
10:54<@peter1138>haha
10:55<Smoovious>that's what I thought too... and am advocating. :)
10:56|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
10:56<dihedral>that's a real shame
10:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10252 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: never overflow when applying exchange rates before drawing the amount of money.
10:57<Rubidium>Smoovious: what kind of positive impact would such a tunnel list have?
10:58<Rubidium>in worst can absolutely none
10:58<hylje>:o
10:59<Smoovious>well, it would simplify having to search the map for encroaching tunnels/bridges... instead you'd just check the index for them which has all of the linked endpoints...
10:59<dihedral>in such cases of players building long tunnels it would speed up the process of finding out if a tunnel is in the way
10:59<dihedral>but then - searching the endpoint will still have to be done!
11:00<Smoovious>same for raising and lowering land, without the index, you gotta keep checking the map looking for tunnels... with the index, you don't waste time searching the map, you check the list...
11:00<Rubidium>Smoovious: you'd have to search the WHOLE tunnel list, even for a tunnel of 5 long you need to iterate the whole list 3 tiles (either 3xlist or listx3)
11:00<hylje>moar caching
11:00<Smoovious>would take a lot less processor impact if you don't have to keep finding them all the time
11:00<Smoovious>better than searching the whole map
11:01<Rubidium>Smoovious: it doesn't search the whole map
11:01<@peter1138>Rubidium: if the list stores the start & end tiles you don't need a loop to test for intersection
11:01<Rubidium>it only searches where there could possibly be tunnels
11:01<Smoovious>how far does it check for tunnels before it determines t here isn't one
11:01<Rubidium>peter1138: why not? you need to check for three intersection points in a tunnel of length 5
11:01<Smoovious>which could end up being searching the whole length/width of the map, perpendicular to the proposed route
11:02<dihedral>and the tunnel list could hole the level at which the tunnel is built
11:03<Smoovious>that should be covered by the x/y of the endpoints already
11:03<Rubidium>Smoovious: for a tunnel list you've got exactly the same problem; even worse
11:03<Smoovious>bull
11:03<@peter1138>Rubidium: for x-axis tunnel: if (tiley == startx && tilex > startx && tilex < endx) { intersect }
11:03<@peter1138>plus height checking
11:03<@peter1138>first startx is starty ;)
11:04<dihedral>on my way home... will join you later again :-)
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11:04<@peter1138>still tons of iteration of course
11:04<@peter1138>hmm
11:05<Rubidium>peter1138: but that is for one of the 3 x-axis that the 5-length tunnel intersects
11:05<Smoovious>a line is defined by its endpoints, and it is a simple matter to find if that line will intersect another... as I currently understand it tho, right now it is searching for the existence of the lilne to b egin with by searching through the map, every time a tunnel/bridge is attempted to build, or during terrafoorming
11:06<Smoovious>checking an index of x1,y1/x2,y2's of objects that already exist, is a ton less work than searching outward on the map looking for tunnel tiles
11:07<Rubidium>Smoovious: only in some cases, not all
11:08<Smoovious>...
11:08<Smoovious>alright... I'll bite... in what cases does it not
11:08|-|nairan [~Maui_key@p5498D847.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:09<Thomas[NL]>ehh latest trunk all the generated towns are 1 street-tile and 2 buildings
11:09<Rubidium>the case where there are 4 tunnels on a map an I want to build a tunnel through a 1x1 "hill" (so 1 flat tile that is raised)
11:09<Thomas[NL]>no more, no less
11:10<Smoovious>...
11:10<Smoovious>ok, you're just messing with me now...
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11:10<Rubidium>no, I'm saying: don't make the average case horribly slow to speed up the worst case
11:11<Smoovious>but... say that 'hill' is in the middle of a vallley... land rises to either side of it for a long distance...
11:11<Smoovious>it wouldn't be horribly slow
11:11<Smoovious>the whole point of having an index to begin with is to save time having to search them out all lthe time
11:12<Rubidium>Thomas[NL]: really?
11:12<Rubidium>latest trunk works for me ;)
11:12<Thomas[NL]>yeah
11:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10253 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10249): putting the < the wrong way around made the new towns pretty small.
11:13<hylje>:o
11:13<hylje>wha
11:13<Rubidium>ofcourse CIA is slow, so you can take advantage of that :)
11:13<Thomas[NL]>:P
11:17<skidd13>About the town roads... What about FS897?
11:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10254 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: loading indicator, which shows in % how full a vehicle is while loading/unloading (TheJosh)
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11:30<Wolf01>hello
11:30<TrueBrain>hi
11:30<skidd13>hi
11:32<@Bjarni>hi Wolf01
11:34|-||Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
11:35<Sacro|Laptop>so...
11:35<Rubidium>http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/tunnel-issue.diff <- SmatZ you meant doing that, right?
11:35<Sacro|Laptop>whose gonna help me code PBS?
11:35<TrueBrain>you are going to help yourself :)
11:35<Noldo>Sacro|Laptop: you'll need KUDr for that
11:35<Sacro>Noldo: where is he?
11:36<@Bjarni>...
11:36<TrueBrain>Sacro: check the userlist.....
11:36<@Bjarni>Sacro+code=wtf
11:37<Sacro>Bjarni: i've coded before
11:37<@Bjarni>for OpenTTD?
11:37<Sacro>yes
11:37<@Bjarni>what patches?
11:38[~]Sacro 's Daylength Patch
11:38<TrueBrain>Bjarni: leave him alone...
11:38<@Bjarni>ahh, right
11:38<TrueBrain>if he thinks he can do it, let him!
11:38<@Bjarni>I'm not going to stop development of PBS
11:40[~]Sacro puts #ifndef OSX at the top
11:40<@Bjarni>fine
11:40<@Bjarni>I just don't see any reasons to do that
11:40<Sacro>stops mac users compiling it
11:40<Rubidium>I do
11:41<@Bjarni>OSX isn't defined when compiling on mac
11:41<Rubidium>it means we can let Bjarni fix PBS because it's mac specific code ;)
11:41<@Bjarni>no
11:41<@Bjarni>it wouldn't be mac specific if the code is active for all OSes but OSX
11:41<TrueBrain>I wonder when Bjarni will fix 32bpp for OSX
11:42<@Bjarni>well
11:42<@Bjarni>I have a deadline at 14:00 tomorrow
11:42<@Bjarni>I give that one priority
11:45|-|DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl]
11:45<@peter1138>gruagh
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11:51[~]Smoovious hands peter1138 a napkin.
11:53<SmatZ>Rubidium: exactly
11:53<SmatZ>sorry I had a dinner
11:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10255 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove some old debug code nobody was using anymore
11:56<hylje>hey, you just nuked those things i debugged with
11:56<SmatZ>Rubidium: will it work when you try to build a tunnel over an existing tunnel?
11:56<SmatZ>:-D @ hylje :)
11:57<Rubidium>SmatZ: haven't tested that (yet)
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12:00<Rubidium>yes, it seems to work
12:00<skidd13>something is wrong with the money displayed in the difficultiy settings.... LOL damned is this a lot. -> €toomuchtowritealldown
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12:01<@peter1138>wow
12:01|-||Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5E03DCF.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
12:01<@peter1138>i'm getting massive profits :p
12:01<hylje>profit!!
12:01<skidd13>And it changes it I change the value of the industry density... LOL
12:01<skidd13>I -> if I
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12:01<@peter1138>profit this year:
12:02<@peter1138>£70,660,801,955,244
12:02<@peter1138>possibly wrong?
12:02<hylje>ow
12:02<SmatZ>Rubidium: great :)
12:03<Rubidium>peter1138: probably printed wrong yes
12:03<@peter1138>SetDParamMoney(0, ...
12:03<@peter1138>SetDParamMoney(1, ...
12:03<@peter1138>int64 will take up 2 slots
12:04<Rubidium>yes, which is the "cause" of the trouble
12:04|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd
12:04<Rubidium>as almost everything is now 64 bits, but apparantly not everything actually is
12:04<@peter1138>ok, sorry i thought you'd changed it
12:05<Rubidium>so there are two solutions
12:05<@peter1138>SetDParamMoney(2, ...
12:05<@peter1138>:p
12:05<Rubidium>make those DParam variables just 64 bits ;)
12:05<@peter1138>or make _decode_parameters 64 bit, yes
12:06<Rubidium>yes, that's what I meant
12:06<Biff>hmm, does openttd -g filename.sav only work for server or something?
12:06<Biff>it did not open a savegame
12:06<@peter1138>no
12:07<Biff>it is supposed to work?
12:07<@peter1138>yes...
12:07<Biff>hmm
12:07<Biff>ok
12:07<Biff>does it expect a path relative to the personal dir maybe?
12:07<@peter1138>if the savegame doesn't exist you'll get an (in game) error message
12:07<Biff>i dont get anything
12:07<skidd13>Any dev comments to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/897. I knew I asked earlyer but got no answers.
12:08<Biff>oh wait
12:08<Biff>nm
12:08<Biff>:)
12:08<@peter1138>then maybe your "openttd" script is not passing all parameters
12:08<Biff>yeah, i just realized
12:08<@peter1138>use $@
12:09<Biff>yes
12:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10256 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_commons.cpp newgrf_commons.h newgrf_industries.cpp): -Add: Addition of IndustryTileOverrideManager
12:09<Caemyr>yah!
12:09<@peter1138>skidd13: pass TownLayout to IsRoadAllowedHere, not Town *
12:09<Caemyr>beer for belugas
12:09<Caemyr>another small step for him and great leap for OTTDity
12:10<@Belugas>thanks Caemyr, but it is really nothing :)
12:10<@peter1138>+SLE_CONDVAR(Town, road_layout, SLE_UINT8, 67, SL_MAX_VERSION),
12:10<@peter1138>^^ dodgy with enums
12:12<Wolf01>mmmh i just noticed i forgot about 2 tiles
12:13<@peter1138>+t->road_layout = CheckSavegameVersion(66) ? TL_ORIGINAL : _patches.town_layout;
12:13<@peter1138>i'd say always use the patch option
12:13|-|raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DC2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:13<@peter1138>also, version 66 is wrong for town layout introduction, isn't it?
12:14[~]peter1138 > home
12:14<skidd13>SLE_UINT8 are 256 values aren't? V66 was right at the time the patch was written (yesterday)
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12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10257 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-21 19:15:05
12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 25 fixed, 50 changed by ThomasA (75)
12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 117 fixed by habazi (117)
12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 6 fixed by miham (6)
12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 8 fixed, 9 changed by CrystyB (17)
12:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: spanish - 7 fixed by jfrank (7)
12:19|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75995.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:20<hylje>what does ottd i18n rely on?
12:22|-|HMage [hmage@89-178-39-60.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of question is that?
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>on text files compiled with strgen...
12:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10258 /trunk/src/ (27 files in 2 dirs):
12:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: as we are now using int64 all over the place, it's better to use int64 variables in the string generating too instead of packing them into two int32s.
12:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: some displays of money were wrong.
12:26<+glx>skidd13: enums are 32bits values on some platforms
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10259 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10258): committed a little too much.. would've made pretty cheap tunnels though :)
12:27<Rubidium>and 64 bits on others...
12:27<skidd13>so SLE_UINT32 to be on the secure side?
12:28<+glx>no
12:28<+glx>do it like we did (search for PlayerByte or something like that)
12:30<+glx>PlayerByte is the wrong example :) OwnerByte is better
12:33<Wolf01>peter1138! do you want to play with pngcodec? http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/trgtr.zip :)
12:33<skidd13>seen already... -> AFAICS the enum is already set to 8 bit in openttd.h (~line 225) so wher's the problem?
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12:35<Wolf01>mmh
12:35<Wolf01>i need a shower, is too hot and muggy today :O
12:35|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>it was raining here all day...
12:36<@Bjarni>funny
12:36<+glx>skidd13: in town.h use TownLayoutByte instead
12:36<@Bjarni>it will be railing all night here
12:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10260 /trunk/src/lang/piglatin.txt:
12:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-21 19:36:07
12:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: piglatin - 12 fixed by adammw (12)
12:36|-|tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B83630.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:36<@Bjarni>some rain clouds coming from Germany are going to give us like a months rain within like 6 hours or so
12:37<eekee>ack
12:37<skidd13>I thought the clouds droped all their load here. :)
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12:38<Eddi|zuHause>the rain was insane here this morning
12:38<@Bjarni>a funny twist is that the guys, who help removing water from basements and stuff are on strike, so the deal is to have a good house that can keep the water out or you are fucked
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>i went 10m from my house door to the bus that was parking right outside on the street... i got totally wet...
12:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10261 /trunk/src/ (43 files in 5 dirs): -Cleanup: we do not need CURRENCY64 and CURRCOMPACT64 anymore, because everything is already 64 bits by default.
12:39<@Bjarni>you didn't say how long you were waiting for the bus outside
12:40<+glx>I think the bus was already there
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12:41<Eddi|zuHause>the bus was waiting for me
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12:42<Eddi|zuHause>it's more like a taxi, that you order at least 2h in advance, if there is no regular bus scheduled within 1h before or after... it costs the same as the bus, which means no additional cost if you have a monthly bus ticket, or like me a semester ticket
12:43<@Bjarni>ahh one of those
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>it's a really fine service :)
12:44<@Bjarni>I once used one like that and a car showed up... turned out only two people called, so it was too expensive to send a bus :)
12:44<eekee>^^'
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>they introduced a lot more bus stops with the service, and one is practically in front of my house
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes, they always send cars
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>usually mini-vans
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>there are regular busses at 8 and 10 in the morning, but i must be in the city at 10, so i can order a bus at 9
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>which is 1h from the previous and 1h from the next regular bus
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>it has so many advantages
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>they wait for me if i am 2 minutes late
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have to run into the village to catch the bus
12:47<@peter1138>hmm, crap
12:47<@peter1138>which is the correct patch :o
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>the latest :)
12:48<@Bjarni>don't be too sure
12:51<skidd13>the one with the correct code (if you ask confuzius) LOL
12:54<Ailure>hmm
12:54<Ailure>heh
12:54<Ailure>when I'm back I go try out the timetable thing
12:54<Ailure>Nightlies are compiled soon :)
12:55<Giddorah>Any devs available for a PM?
12:56<Ailure>why PM=
12:56<Ailure>sometimes it better to say it in public so whoever is on sees it
12:56<Giddorah>I'm so shy ;)
12:56<Ailure>I'm shy too
12:57<Giddorah>Aight... On strin STR_TIMETABLE_GO_TO
12:57<Giddorah>Oops
12:57<Ailure>I brb
12:57<stillunknown>Who did something to the news system recently?
12:57<Giddorah>On string STR_TIMETABLE_GO_TO it's {string1} {string2} in english... That in turn translates into {string} {string} after translation... Can't this be a problem?
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12:58<Eddi|zuHause>stillunknown: the last thing i remember was the split between "important" and "unimportant" economical messages
12:59<@peter1138>Giddorah: no, string1/2 etc are only valid for english
12:59<stillunknown>Eddi|zuHause: revision?
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>stillunknown: several months ago
13:00<stillunknown>I'm referring to something that happened today.
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>i have not checked today yet...
13:01<stillunknown>news_gui.cpp:278: void AddNewsItem(StringID, uint32, uint, uint): Assertion `_total_news == 30' failed.
13:01<Giddorah>peter1138: Then how do you make the correct call for the correct string if there's several strings in the same line? :P
13:02|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
13:02|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>stillunknown: maybe related to r10258?
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>sounds a little far fetched :)
13:03<stillunknown>rubidium: Did you change anything today that is somewhat related to the news system?
13:05<eekee>A multiplayer with current nightly just crashed with a news-related error a day or two into the game
13:06<eekee>openttd: /data3/Downloads/Games/ttdx/openttd/trunk/src/news_gui.cpp:278: void AddNewsItem(StringID, uint32, uint, uint): Assertion `_total_news == 30' failed.
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13:06<@peter1138>Giddorah: pass, but STRINGn consumes n args, it doesn't choose the arg at position 'n'
13:06<@peter1138>i think there's an index parameter you can use
13:07<Giddorah>I'm just concerned
13:07<Giddorah>Haven't seen another string containing two strings before
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>Giddorah: the translation engine always takes the {STRINGn} values from the matching english string, so just use {STRING} in the translation
13:08<dihedral> _network_player_info[nd->company].num_vehicle[0]
13:08<dihedral>is there any place i can find the defined enum for that 0?
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>Giddorah: there's a way to reverse the order of the strings, with something like {STRING:1} or so, i don't remember exactly, there are probably examples somewhere
13:09<Giddorah>Eddi|zuHause: I know... But what about {STRINGx} {STRINGy}?
13:09<Giddorah>Oh wait
13:09<@peter1138>Maedhros
13:09<@peter1138>er
13:09<Giddorah>It adds x and y itself without showing? Or are the strings just gonna be stripped down to {STRING} {STRING}?
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>it adds the x automatically
13:10<Giddorah>Aaah! That makes sense
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's why you need english.txt as well as your_language.txt for strgen
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>all the information is already in english.txt so it can take it from there
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>the information in your_language.txt would be redundant
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>redundant information always causes trouble on updates/changes
13:12<Giddorah>Excellent :)
13:13<Smoovious>I'm on a current nightly game that reset without warning... no idea why yet
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, current nightly has a crashing bug
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>news_gui.cpp:278: void AddNewsItem(StringID, uint32, uint, uint): Assertion `_total_news == 30' failed.
13:14<Smoovious>:(
13:14|-|Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:14<Smoovious>well... it is a nightly after all...
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's technically only a crash if you have assertions enabled
13:14<Smoovious>no idea, I'm not serving
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>but it might cause even worse trouble without :p
13:16<stillunknown>Rubidium: ping
13:17<Smoovious>got an aert
13:17<Smoovious>assert
13:18<skidd13>glx: If I set the road_layout in my patch as TownLayoutByte the random thing is f***ed up. :(
13:18<Smoovious>Win32: File: /compile_farm/openttd/nightlly/compile_dir/src/town.h Line: 273 Expression: index < _Town_pool.total_items
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13:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm, that's a totally different place
13:22<Smoovious>yup
13:22<Smoovious>I'd debug i t if I knew how it worked. :P
13:24<@Bjarni>hmm
13:24<Smoovious>oh well, crashed without a dump file
13:24<@Bjarni>I just came to wonder... what would happen if you call a static inline function recursively?
13:25<Smoovious>the static builds up until the computer explodes in a big electric-blue arc?
13:25<Kjetil>haha
13:25<@Bjarni>cool
13:25<@peter1138>nothing special
13:26[~]Bjarni wonders about making such a function and commit it to see who compiles without reading what is actually committed
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>the compiler will probably barf out
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>or make it not inline automatically
13:27|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
13:30<@peter1138>Bjarni: nothing special happens though
13:31<Ailure>mmm
13:31<Ailure>I love the smell of a newly compiled nightly
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13:32<Smoovious>maybe you need your nose checked...
13:33<Giddorah>Hmmm
13:33<Giddorah>http://www.imdb.com/find?q=arc%20tycker%20att%20alla%20p%E5%20soften%20%E4r%20riktiga%20godingar;s=tt;site=aka
13:37<Ailure>damn
13:37<Ailure>assertion failed
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13:38<stillunknown>Ailure: The current nightly is probably useless.
13:40<Ailure>why?
13:40<Ailure>oh
13:41<SmatZ>it crashed
13:41<Ailure>I thought my crash was related to something weird I was playing with
13:41<SmatZ>openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/town.h:273: Town* GetTown(uint): Assertion `index < _Town_pool.total_items' failed.
13:41<Ailure>didn't someone switch some < > operator recently
13:42<Smoovious>Rubidium did
13:42<Ailure>not saying that it was wrong to do
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13:42<Ailure>since that bug might just hidden other bugs somehow
13:42<Ailure>i'm not too sure about the inner workings of openTTD though
13:42<Smoovious><CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10253 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10249): putting the < the wrong way around made the new towns pretty small.
13:43<Ailure>yeah
13:43<Ailure>but I have no idea if that's the cause or not :p
13:44<@peter1138>not at all
13:45<Ailure>hmm
13:45<Ailure>happens exactly after six months of runtime
13:45<SmatZ>#3 0x00000000005149e1 in GetTown (index=18492) at /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/town.h:273
13:46<Ailure>hmm
13:46<Ailure>or not
13:46<Ailure>or maybe
13:46<SmatZ>it happes after 13 days for me :)
13:46<Ailure>it always seem to crash on july
13:46<Ailure>for me
13:47<SmatZ>on 1st jan...
13:47<Ailure>though I managed to go 18 months this time
13:47<Ailure>now only one month
13:47<Ailure>:)
13:48<hylje>:o
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13:49<Smoovious>tried quitting a network game before the server crashed and my end crashed
13:50<Smoovious>no dump file. :(
13:50<Wolf01>mmmh ottd is really heavy with the 32bpp-anim, and it crashes when i press on the X to close the app (before the "do you want to quit" popup)
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13:51<Smoovious>I crashed before the 'want to quit' confirmation box too
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>Smoovious: dump files are only on release builds, not nightlies
13:52<Ailure>the little I managed to try of Timetable system is nice
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>the dump files are from MSVC, but the nightlies are compiled with g++
13:53[~]Smoovious nods.
13:53[~]Wolf01 sweats -___________-
13:53<Smoovious>not familiar with g++... thnx
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14:00<stillunknown>Rubidium: Interested in the fix for the news problem?
14:01<Rubidium>how big is it?
14:01<stillunknown>One line.
14:02<stillunknown>news.h
14:02<stillunknown>params must be uint64
14:02<stillunknown>because in news_gui.cpp COPY_OUT_DPARAM is used
14:03<Rubidium>stillunknown: that only a partial one then
14:03<stillunknown>I'm not saying this is the fix, just a hint to the cause.
14:04<Rubidium>yeah, I've got already several more causes :(
14:05<stillunknown>I just did assert hunting and sticking fprintf's in the code, this came up eventually.
14:06<stillunknown>Since the total_news was jumping from 30 to 205, which was very strange.
14:08<stillunknown>Rubidium: Causes for the specific assert or just more problems?
14:08<Rubidium>probably all problems you've seen tonight
14:08<Rubidium>or rather, hopefully
14:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10262 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Fix (r10258): some places that needed to be changed to uint64 were hidden/forgotten, which caused memory corruptions and that in caused all kinds of assertions to trigger.
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14:11<stillunknown>Rubidium: have you actually compiled it?
14:12<stillunknown>since it asserts during compile
14:12<SmatZ>/mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp:1220: error: size of array 'a' is negative
14:12<Rubidium>let me guess, you've got a 64 bits compiler
14:12<SmatZ>I do
14:13<Rubidium>how big is that struct for a 64 bits compiler?
14:14<Rubidium>does it give that assertion when you move the StringID message line one line down, i.e. below uint64 params[10] ?
14:14[~]SmatZ back, will look at it
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>hmz... my amarok is totally acting up lately...
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>like suddenly forgetting the entire music database...
14:16<SmatZ> uint64 params[10]; ///< local copy of _decode_parameters
14:16<SmatZ> StringID message; ///< message shown for query window
14:16<SmatZ>compiles
14:16<Smoovious>got an assert in an industry file now... window isn't wide enuf to show the whole thing... but the expression was: index < _Industry-pool.total-items
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14:17<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like an alignment problem, SmatZ
14:17|-|Me_ changed nick to Me
14:17<Rubidium>Smoovious: what version?
14:17<Smoovious>r10261 nightly
14:17<Smoovious>is that superceded now?
14:17<Rubidium>it's fixed in 10262
14:17<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: actually I don't know, but i works now :)
14:18<Smoovious>ok... did it get redone with the nightly farm or should I compile?
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: yeah, that "it works if i change the order" is a typical symptom for alignment stuff
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>Smoovious: you need to compile manually
14:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10263 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10262): due to 64 bits alignment a struct became a little too large.
14:19<Smoovious>k
14:19<Rubidium>Smoovious: it did in about -22:41
14:19<Rubidium>i.e. next nightly will be tomorrow
14:20<@peter1138>news at 11: you're all exceedingly lucky that trunk happens to normally be usable
14:20<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: yes, looks so
14:20<Smoovious>yeah, I know... that's how I got 10261... didn't know if it would get a bump to recompile tho or not
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14:20<Smoovious>hope I can compile with the proper version # this time instead of norev000
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14:20<Thomas[NL]>is the x- and y-offset the distance from the top-left-image corner to the center of the tile?
14:21<+glx>Smoovious: what's your compiler?
14:21<Smoovious>vc2005
14:22<+glx>not easy to get the rev with that
14:22<+glx>you can tweak the source, or use a define
14:22[~]Smoovious nods.
14:23<stillunknown>The aircraft movement code, has that been overhauled since the first RE'ing?
14:23[~]Smoovious waits for svn to finish updating ~600 revisions...
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14:34<Chris82>good evening
14:34<Chris82>I just downloaded r10263 but there are several errors compiling it
14:34<Chris82>..\src\lang\english.txt(3373): error: Undefined command 'CURRCOMPACT64'
14:34<Chris82>and 4 errors with the loading indicators patch
14:34<Chris82>can anyone confirm that? (I used MSVC to compile)
14:35<Rubidium>Chris82: update your whole working copy
14:35<Rubidium>secondly loading indicators is likely to not apply anymore
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14:36<Chris82>what I meant is that since loading indicators was added to trunk I get errors
14:36<Chris82>I didn't use the .patch/.diff file from the thread
14:36<Chris82>but I try to revert everything and re-compile
14:37<peter1138>!logs
14:37<SpComb>Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
14:38<Chris82>works, then I need to figure out which patch caused an interence with the loading indicators code
14:38<Chris82>Tortoise didn't give me any conflicts
14:38<Chris82>interference*
14:43<stillunknown>peter1138: Do you happen to know if aircraft code was ever overhauled?
14:43<peter1138>only bits of it
14:43<peter1138>it's had changes but no rewrite, heh
14:44<stillunknown>It seems so different from all the other movement code.
14:44<Chris82>found the error, the loading indicators from trunk don't work with the better graphs patch :(
14:44<Rubidium>aircraft are totally different
14:45<Chris82>..\src\lang\english.txt(3373): error: Undefined command 'CURRCOMPACT64' < what does this error mean?
14:45<peter1138>it means the command was removed
14:45<Rubidium>that you've got old language files
14:46<Chris82>hmmm but I just downloaded the one from current trunk
14:46<Chris82>weird
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14:46<Rubidium>well, CURRCOMPACT64 isn't in trunk anymore
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>Chris82: you sure it's not a line from some patch?
14:47|-|Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:47<Chris82>I am just checking that
14:48<Chris82>I have a patch file which integrates about 8 patches at once, but there's no line affecting the CURRCOM... line
14:49<peter1138>that's nice. line 3373 doesn't contain CURRCOMPACT64, however
14:49<Chris82>ahh the better graph patch uses CURRCOMPACT64 for STR_GRAPH_Y_LABEL_CURRENCY
14:49<Chris82>I misspelled it when looking for it in the patch file
14:49<Chris82>what is the replacement for it?
14:50<Chris82>STR_GRAPH_Y_LABEL_CURRENCY :{TINYFONT}{CURRCOMPACT64}-
14:50<Chris82>that's the whole line
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>without 64 probably
14:51<Chris82>:) thx
14:51<Chris82>sorry if I ask too many stupid questions today lol :p
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>Chris82: next time check the svn log, it tells you that r10261 has to do with CURRCOMPACT64, then check the diff from that revision
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's only like 3 revisions ago
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14:54<Chris82>thanks for the tip, I'll check it more closely next time, I usually just rush through the log
14:58<Thomas[NL]>what am I doing wrong? I'm trying to replace the flat toylandtile with wolf01's; I made a png of it placed it in data/sprites/trgtr/ saved it as 19.png and added offsets with pngcodec. started openttd with ./openttd -b 32bpp-anim but tile does not get replaced.
15:00<Touqen>rawr!
15:01<Wolf01>did you started the toyland scenario?
15:02<Thomas[NL]>yes
15:02<peter1138>did you set the offsets? heh
15:02<Wolf01>if i remember right, you need to replace the 57, the 19 is the "almost cleared land"
15:03<Wolf01>in toyland they are all the same
15:03<Thomas[NL]>that did it indeed
15:04<Thomas[NL]>can someone explain what I have to measure to get the offsets?
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15:05<Thomas[NL]>TrueBrain used -31, 0 (x/y)
15:07<Thomas[NL]>but I can't seem to get why...
15:07<peter1138>top corner of the sprite probably
15:08<mic>i started crashing with ingame news, is it effect of some new changes?
15:08<peter1138>yup
15:08<stillunknown>Thomas[NL]: Maybe related to viewport coordinates?
15:09<peter1138>update
15:09<stillunknown>Which go from x: [-constant. constant]
15:09<mic>ok
15:09<stillunknown>y: [0, constant2]
15:10<peter1138>you want to move the top corner of the sprite to be at 0,0 in the tile
15:10<peter1138>(at least for ground tiles)
15:10<peter1138>that's achieved by moving it -31,0
15:10<peter1138>quite simple
15:11<Thomas[NL]>isn't it out by 1px then?
15:12<peter1138>no idea
15:12<peter1138>looking at lego1.png it's not quite perfect
15:13<Thomas[NL]>I'll set some extremes and see how it ends up; hopefully I'll be able to figure out that way how it works :)
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15:16<Thomas[NL]>ok I get it I tink
15:16<Thomas[NL]>*think
15:17<stillunknown>I don't know who came up with the idea to make special effects vehicles.
15:17<peter1138>chris saywer
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15:20<stillunknown>http://paste.openttd.org/122 <-- my initial effort to bring similar movement related actions into the vehicle class (no functional changes, and trains are the only one which have been split into smaller parts and have their goto's removed)
15:21<stillunknown>If anyone wants to comment ;-)
15:22<Wolf01>http://www.unityro.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4671 loool
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15:22<Wolf01>ok, how does pngcodec work then?
15:24<Thomas[NL]>pngcodec <1> xx.png x_offs=xx y_offs=xx 1 = "a" to add values, "l" to list, "r" to replace & "c" to clear them all . Very simple
15:24<peter1138>that is so old
15:25<stillunknown>Still funny to see again.
15:26<stillunknown>After so long.
15:26<Wolf01>so... seem that i tried to write pngprops as argument
15:27<Thomas[NL]>yeah, also confused me at the beginning
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: there was a similar text about the german spelling reform... that was like 10 years ago
15:29<Thomas[NL]>Wolf01, how will you cut the edges of the tiles?
15:30<Wolf01>what do you mean?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>the forum post
15:31<Thomas[NL]>the flat one uses proper edges like used on ttd-tiles, but most of the others have pieces that "stick out", I don't know if that is a problem?
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>like this one: http://www.witze-welt.de/index.php?page=view_texte.php&kat=32
15:32<peter1138>Thomas[NL], in theory they'll line up
15:33<Wolf01>yes, i know, i made them with collage of pieces, i found that as they look good when aligned so i kept them so
15:34<Chris82>hmmm does anybody else think that on large maps the industry generator creates way too many factories and steel mills?
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15:35<Chris82>there's one location with like 5 producing industries and at most 2 raw material industries near it
15:35<eekee>Nah, it just clusters em in maps bigger than 256
15:36<eekee>is there a limit on # of windows open at once? I seem to have random windows closing
15:36<@Belugas>20-25, iirc no sure
15:36<@Belugas>it is cycling
15:36<Chris82>yeah but there are about as many factories as farms
15:36<Chris82>that's a little much :D
15:37<@Belugas>talking about the windows :S
15:38<Biff>eekee: really?
15:38<Biff>i remember in the old days of ttdlx, you could only have a few windows open
15:39<eekee>Biff: yeah, & only after about 8 windows too. I'm sure ottd didn't used to
15:39<peter1138>always has
15:39<Biff>thats not normal?
15:39<Chris82>woah my game just crashed with a serious fault condition with 20 windows lol
15:39<Chris82>just tried to test how many I can open
15:41<Wolf01>the load of scenarios fail in trunk, made with the same revision
15:42<peter1138>any towns?
15:42<Wolf01>uhm, right
15:42<Wolf01>i always forget about towns
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>starting a scenario with no towns should generate random towns...
15:45<Chris82>would it be easily possible to generate a 1536x1536 map?
15:45<SmatZ>it should at least give some meaningful message
15:45<Chris82>or does that require a lot of code change?
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>maybe with a popup confirmation
15:45<peter1138>Chris82, no. Lots of stuff assumes 2^
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>Chris82: i don't think that'll work
15:45<SmatZ>"Game load failed" hmm
15:46<Chris82>hmm :( ok I thought so already
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>Chris82: might be easier to create a new type of void tiles that you can spread on a 2048x2048 map
15:47<Chris82>the reason I just asked is because I want ultra huge maps and my brother wants 1024x1024 on the server so I wanted to find compromise
15:48<peter1138>use 2048x1024? ;)
15:48<@Bjarni>:)
15:48<Chris82>hmmm yeah I'll do that I think ;)
15:48<peter1138>i find 512x512 massive, personally
15:49<@Bjarni>actually the whole tile system is based on sizes of 2^n, so changing that would be a huge task
15:49<@Bjarni>so the void tiles are a good idea
15:50<Hendikins>2048x2048 maps are fun :P
15:50[~]Hendikins is playing ultra-huge at the moment
15:50<@Bjarni>they take a while to completely cover with tracks
15:51<Hendikins>I'm taking long enough to just get my main line from one end to the other
15:52<Smoovious>ugh... keep getting openttd.grf and roadstops.grf corrupted or missing... using the ones off of the svn...
15:52<@Bjarni>are you sure?
15:52<mic>should i add new strings to objs/lang/lang/english.txt or src/lang/english.txt?
15:52<@Bjarni>it might find old ones after the path patch is committed if you made a poor setup
15:53<Smoovious>yeah, tried 3 times...
15:53<Chris82>Hendikins: Yeah that's why I like them. Such huge maps are no problem for a modern computer
15:53<dihedral>Rubidium or TrueBrain around?
15:53<Chris82>and there's plenty of room to try different track layouts for effiency without clumping the map in 20 game years
15:53<Hendikins>Chris82: Define modern. ottd is currently having a CPU to itself.
15:53<Smoovious>I deleted them out of my svn directory, and had svn replace them from the server
15:53<Smoovious>I'm sure
15:53<@Bjarni>mic: src/lang/english.txt
15:53<Hendikins>(I'm using dual Athlon MP 2600+ CPUs)
15:54<mic>thatnk. and in what place can i add and in what not?
15:54<dihedral>could someone tell me why on http://joshua.dihedral.de/openttdlib/ext.example/example.php some of the values are negative?
15:55<mic>maybe unsigned?
15:55<peter1138>integer overflows
15:55<mic>dihedral: cool btw :)
15:55<dihedral>thx
15:55<Thomas[NL]>I'm off bye
15:55<dihedral>using OpenTTDLib
15:56<@Bjarni>mic: read the comments... some places says that the order is important, so don't mess with those. Otherwise put new strings together with strings that appears to be used in similar conditions... the compiler will figure out the rest as it uses the names of the sprites to work with
15:56<peter1138>sprites? :p
15:56<Kjetil>why does it compile the blitters when ./configure is given --enable-dedicated ?
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15:56<mic>thanks
15:56<dihedral>still would love to know if anybody can tell me why some values are negative...
15:57<peter1138><mic> maybe unsigned?
15:57<peter1138><peter1138> integer overflows
15:57<@Bjarni>dihedral: maybe you mess up with 32/64 bit
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15:58<dihedral>if that were the case nothing else would be at it's right place
15:58<@Bjarni>dihedral: instead of the huge values, you should shorten it to millions and so on.... it's not important to know every single dime if the company has 50 billions and the latter is easier to read
15:58<Chris82>Hendikins: With modern I meant something like a Core 2 Duo machine
15:59<@Bjarni>it would be funny to get overflow in map sizes though.... negative map sizes xD
15:59<Chris82>You won't see CPU usage by openttd even if you have a 2048x2048 map with 2000 trains :D
15:59<peter1138>Athlon MP's are obsolete, of course...
15:59<peter1138>MPs
15:59<peter1138>Stupid apostrophe
15:59<dihedral>afk
15:59<Chris82>I've heard the MPs were nice CPUs, never used AMDs except for X2 and XP though
16:00<eekee>Chris82: you're joking, right??? Otherwise, what planet are you on, and can I pleeeease move there & use their computers? Pretty please?
16:00<Chris82>well any Pentium 4, Core 2 Duo, Pentium D, Athlon X2, Opeteron and CPUs of this kind systems are modern
16:00<@Bjarni>eekee: either that or he paused the game while reading CPU load
16:00<Chris82>C2D was just an example :p
16:00<eekee>Bjarni: hehe :D
16:01<Hendikins>ottd isn't multithreaded anyway, is it?
16:01<Kjetil>any Pentium 4 ? ( early pentium 4 sucks )
16:01<@Bjarni>it isn't
16:01<Chris82>no it isn't
16:01<@Bjarni>well
16:01<@Bjarni>there is the background saving
16:01<@Bjarni>and the GUI drawing while generating the map, but apart from that
16:01<Chris82>ok I admit the CPU usage is 2 percents at peak :D
16:01[~]Hendikins should probably be running a dedicated server on localhost and connecting a client to it to chew both his CPUs.
16:01<Chris82>but still that's nothing for a game
16:01<eekee>Chris82: well if those are modern, then it shouldn't be unplayable with CPUs of a generation before. It does get unplayable very quickly!
16:01<eekee>(in multiplayer)
16:02<Chris82>I have played the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe and the first version on a 386 CPU :D
16:02<Chris82>with 8 or 16 MB Ram I think
16:02<Chris82>OTTD won't run with that I think
16:02<@Bjarni>I like the background saving... autosave really paused the game for a while before it started compressing the game in a different thread
16:02<eekee>Chris82: I KNOW! Hence my astonishment at how much ottd uses. gRANTED, TURNING NPF OFF DOES HELP A LOT
16:03<mic>dihedral: can you make script to accept address of server? for example ....php?server=1.2.3.4:3979 - this will let other use it :)
16:03<eekee>oops, er, only part of those caps were intended :D
16:03<Chris82>I think the dedicated server with 2048x2048 uses 50 MB Ram right now (without vehicles) which I just started
16:03<eekee>well maybe it's ram then
16:04<eekee>eh, I should shut up, haven't slept well
16:04<mic>what version of server?
16:04<Chris82>uhm r10264 with lots of customized patches
16:04<mic>try 0.5.2 :)
16:04<peter1138>The raw map is 36MB at that size.
16:04<eekee>interesting. Wonder what the patches do
16:05[~]Hendikins has no problems with RAM usage by ottd, right now the 2048x2048 map with vehicles is only chewing up 76 rss
16:05<peter1138>Which for modern computers isn't a lot.
16:05<eekee>oh true
16:05<Chris82>I have set towns and industries to high though
16:05<mic>try 0.5.2 with 100x100 station with 400 mines in it accepting range :) and try 1 train to load from that station :)
16:06<Chris82>100x100 station? isn't 64 the limit?
16:06<mic>64*2=128>100
16:06<eekee>in does say in patch config that upping the max station size slows the game
16:06<mic>right 50 :)
16:06[~]Hendikins has towns and industries on high also
16:06<mic>50x50 :)
16:06<peter1138>hmm, each town takes ~ 1KB
16:06<peter1138>each industry takes ~ 52 bytes, heh
16:07<dihedral>mic: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32659
16:07<Chris82>oh that's not that much
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16:07<peter1138>town is quite high
16:07<peter1138>it has a few arrays in it
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16:08<Chris82>I think there are like 2000 towns on such a large map, that would only be 2 MB Ram
16:08<peter1138>a vehicle is less than 300 bytes
16:08<mic>high spread does not slow game in trunk :) i think we can remove red message "high spread slows the game"
16:08<peter1138>stations are biggish too
16:08<peter1138>nearly 900 bytes (heh)
16:09<eekee>Chris82: Have you run ottd multiplayer & checked the cpu usage? I'm guessing that might be interesting
16:09<Chris82>well I played one game a few days ago with about 60 32x32 stations and about 200 trains on that network
16:09<Chris82>that worked perfectly fine
16:09<SmatZ>afair, the reason why high spread caused slowdowns, was because of AI
16:09<eekee>hmmm
16:09<Chris82>eekee I only play multiplayer yes
16:09[~]eekee REALLY wants to move to Chris's planet now :D
16:09<Chris82>the dedicated server has 1 to 2% at most
16:09<Chris82>X2 3800+ is in the server and C2D E6600 in my desktop
16:09[~]eekee boggles
16:10<Chris82>the slowest CPU I tried OTTD with was a P4 3 GHz I think, I didn't know it before
16:10<mic>dihedral: i dont want to install scipts, i want to allow everybody just to make 1 link :)
16:10<eekee>ah
16:10<SmatZ>I tried it at PMMX 200MHz
16:10<SmatZ>it was unplayable...
16:10<Chris82>I would love to get back a really old working machine
16:11<peter1138>have mine
16:11<Chris82>my 386 was soooo silent :D
16:11<peter1138>i'll swap for your C2D
16:11<Chris82>no fan except a really silent PSU fan
16:11<Chris82>it's really hard to build a silent PC nowadays
16:11<peter1138>my 386 had a chunky PSU
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16:11<mic>dihedral: i think it is very easy for you to read variable from _GET
16:11<SmatZ>Chris82: you may underclock your CPU and turn off the fan
16:11<peter1138>with mega huge loud fan
16:11<Chris82>well I cool it passively actually
16:11<Chris82>and undervolted it
16:11<eekee>I use it on an iBook of a night-time. It's passable, esp with npf off, & yapf for ships is better off too in my game with 10 ships, lol
16:11<Chris82>but I still have 4 120mm fans in the system + PSU
16:12<peter1138>Chris82, it's easier than it was a few years ago. PSUs and CPU fans *are* quieter now
16:12<Chris82>people call me insane when I say my PC is loud lol
16:12<Chris82>yeah those Scythe Heatsinks are really nice for passive cooling when you have 120's in your case
16:13<Hendikins>My PC *is* loud, although it has nothing on the IBM server I used to have in my room
16:13<Hendikins>eekee: Resume?
16:13<Chris82>I also modded my graphics card so it's cooled with an Accelero S1, the Accelero fan cooling solution was too loud
16:13<peter1138>i'm tempted to find a passively cooled graphics card, though
16:13<eekee>ya alright
16:13<Chris82>X1950 Pro can be passively cooled and it's fast
16:13<+glx>I have a passively cooled gfx card
16:13<+glx>7600GS
16:13<Chris82>it's really easy to take off the original fan of a card and replace it
16:14<Chris82>you just need to take care of the voltage regulators because some manufactures put very sticky heatsinks on them
16:14<Chris82>so you better not rip them off when changing the fan :D
16:14<Chris82>I just say it because it happened to me once :(
16:14<peter1138>hmm, fanless 8600GT
16:15<Eddi|zuHause><Chris82> with 8 or 16 MB Ram I think <- TTO used around 2.5 MB ram
16:15<Chris82>I actually have no idea :D
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>it said that in the about box
16:15<Chris82>at the time I was using Original TTD and a 386 with DOS I had no idea of what RAM is lol
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>you're using either Original TT or TTD...
16:16<Chris82>peter1138: http://geizhals.at/a254267.html this is a nice card :D
16:16<Chris82>ah ok
16:16<Chris82>well I was playing both anyway
16:16<+glx>the funny time of tweaking autoexec.bat and config.sys to have as much memory as possible
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16:16<Chris82>the expansion pack for Original TT was really cool :D
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16:17<@Bjarni> <Chris82> peter1138: http://geizhals.at/a254267.html this is a nice card :D <-- 43 Watt.....
16:17<@Bjarni>computers use way too much power
16:17<Chris82>43 is pretty good isn't it?
16:17<Chris82>well look at the new ATI cards, 200+ Watts that is insane
16:17<Chris82>that's more than my whole comp with C2D and X1950 Pro uses lol
16:17<Kjetil>DOS is/was a horrible operating system.. a lot of limitations that isn't present on *nix
16:18<peter1138>gainward do a similar one
16:18<@Bjarni>you can get a desktop computer that uses less than 100 W with decent performance
16:19<dihedral>mic: i dont want my server to be querying other games constantly :-P
16:19<Chris82>http://geizhals.at/a198926.html < this one is only 31W
16:19<SpComb>or a laptop
16:19<Chris82>but damn slow
16:19<Chris82>100W full load?
16:19<SpComb>a laptop probably uses less than 100W full load
16:19<dihedral>mic: + i could query the master server, get a bunch of ip addresses and do some mining :-)
16:19<Chris82>of course a laptop uses 20-40 Watts I think depending on its graphics card
16:20<@Bjarni>the computer I used when porting OTTD used 90 W when fully loaded
16:20<dihedral>which client was online where for how long, performance of the company the client was playing in etc
16:20<@Bjarni>and that's with two HDs and stuff
16:20<mic>dihedral: interesting
16:20<peter1138>passive 8600GTS :o
16:20<dihedral>and to be honest, thats my plan - just not for all server but at least for mine
16:20<Chris82>the 8600GTS requires 71 Watts tho
16:21<Chris82>I think that's about the same my X1950 Pro requires
16:21<dihedral>logging everything to a database and building stats
16:21<Chris82>the X1950 Pro has better performance but no DX10 if you want that
16:21<mic>btw, how to run openttd as master server? %)
16:21<peter1138>Don't give a monkeys about DX10, but ATI suck on Linux.
16:21<Chris82>Oh I don't know about that, but good to know.
16:22<peter1138>mic, you don't :)
16:22<Phazorx>this is a strange covo for this channel
16:22<Chris82>maybe you should check check a used 7800GT
16:22<Chris82>it has a great performance/watt ratio
16:22<SmatZ>check check :)
16:22<Chris82>oops
16:23<peter1138>hmm, where did the C2D E2140/60s come from...
16:23<Chris82>http://geizhals.at/a242612.html < wtf is this? lol
16:24<peter1138>power hungry, whatever it is
16:24<@Bjarni>some electrical heating device that can double as computer hardware
16:24<Chris82>yeah but look at the price lol
16:24<peter1138>it's a quadro, yes
16:24<SmatZ>yup Quadro
16:25<Chris82>I totally don't understand how someone can through out money for SLI, Crossfire and that stuff
16:25<Chris82>there's no game that can't be played with a single card
16:25<Kjetil>because people are stupid
16:25<Chris82>despite the noise and power consumption
16:25<SmatZ>when you have money for a 50" LCD, you have money for SLI
16:25<peter1138>people buy C2Qs too, heh
16:25<SmatZ>if you want a SLI :)
16:25<Chris82>well a C2D E6600 is only 200 Euros
16:26<Chris82>awesome performance and low power consumption
16:26<peter1138>C2Q isn't
16:26<Chris82>ah you mean Core 2 Quad
16:26<Chris82>well that is Fake Quad anyway :D
16:26<peter1138>mind you, the C2D extreme is stupid money as well
16:26<stillunknown>Be sure to avoid the initial revision if your run 24/7, idle usage is a bit high.
16:26<Chris82>yeah just like the P4 Extremes
16:27<Chris82>idle is high on the C2Ds that's true, but I run a lot of encoding and compiling stuff all day long
16:27<stillunknown>They reduced idle usage on the second revision iirc.
16:27<Chris82>if you really wanna be power efficient with high performance you need a X2 EE
16:28<Chris82>well mine is form August last year, one of the first C2Ds
16:28<Chris82>I doubt it's a revised revision
16:28<stillunknown>A (not yet released) agena 2.3 ghz low power would be great.
16:28<peter1138>*sigh*
16:28<Chris82>I think I will use a mobile CPU in my next system anyway
16:28<Chris82>they are powerful enough in the meantime to serve my needs :D
16:29<peter1138>problem with CPUs is you can forever be waiting for the next update before upgrading
16:29<Chris82>just like with anything in your PC
16:29[~]Phazorx is sadden recalling how his barton-m fried
16:29<stillunknown>I'm looking at the time period were i'll first consider upgrading.
16:29<Chris82>if I waited with my RAM until now I could have 16 GB instead of 2 GB :D haha
16:29<Chris82>for the same price
16:29<Chris82>DDR2 prices dropped insanely
16:30<stillunknown>Which is H1 2009.
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16:30<Chris82>http://geizhals.at/a254904.html < what is that actually? a Pentium D with a new name?
16:31<stillunknown>No, they don't make netburst based cpu's anymore.
16:32<peter1138>Intel Core 2 Duo E2140, Socket 775, 1.6 GHz, 800MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 2x 512KB Cache, Retail
16:32<peter1138>is what i see
16:32<Kjetil>They have returned to P6 cpus :P
16:32<SmatZ>/cpuinfo
16:32<Chris82>http://geizhals.at/a210609.html < I'd love this CPU, but a little expensive unfortunately :(
16:32<peter1138>maybe it's just the celeron of the C2D world, heh
16:32<dihedral>Bjarni: i agree with shortening values, though before i would like to see the propper value :-)
16:32<peter1138>the E4300 was supposed to be the cut down version though
16:33<Chris82>what I am wondering is why the E6750 is cheaper than the E6600
16:33<peter1138>there's an E6750? hmm
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16:34<Chris82>yeah new C2D core
16:34<peter1138>ah, the 1333s
16:34<Chris82>2.67 GHZ as well but higher FSB
16:34<stillunknown>I'd wish intel made mid range dedicated video cards.
16:34<stillunknown>s/I'd/I
16:34<Chris82>the Q35 chipset will have a DX10 card
16:34<xBRMxJamie>is there a version of 0.5.2 for PPC?
16:35<stillunknown>Their linux driver support is great, and i could pair it with an amd cpu if i wanted to.
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16:35<Wolf01>'night
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16:36<xBRMxJamie>is there a version of 0.5.2 for PPC?
16:36<xBRMxJamie>oops
16:36<Chris82>a great feature would be an onboard graphics card combined with a dedicated card
16:36<Chris82>whenever I run 3D games the dedicated card runs and otherwise the onboard card
16:37<SmatZ>something like old voodoo cards did
16:37<Chris82>that should be a big potential for saving energy and reducing heat generation dramatically in the case
16:38<Chris82>hehe Carmageddon time :D
16:38<Chris82>I always need to think of that game in combination with Voodo Gfx
16:38<Chris82>+o
16:39<peter1138>and works well using a voodoo emulator iirc
16:39<Rubidium>xBRMxJamie: if you mean PPC MacOSX then yes, otherwise not officially (don't know about unofficially)
16:39<xBRMxJamie>any one know if there is a newer version then 0.5.0 for pocket pc?
16:40<xBRMxJamie>soz ty for awnsering
16:40<SmatZ>xBRMxJamie: ottd for pocket pc is not developed here
16:40<Chris82>peter1138: Yep it does, even on Vista :D
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17:01<dihedral>Bjarni: still with http://joshua.dihedral.de/openttdlib/ext.example/example.php... game "Fair Play 2" company 5 (CM Transport) those numbers are correct...
17:01<dihedral>any ideas?
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17:08<@Bjarni>now that looks a bit more readable
17:09<@Bjarni>but...
17:09<@Bjarni>life ain't fair, so you picked poor server names :P
17:09<@Bjarni>anyway
17:09<@Bjarni>goodnight
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17:14[~]Hendikins runs pax end to end by train on a 2048x2048 map because he can
17:15<mic>dihedral: dont you think they overflood over int32?
17:15<dihedral>yeah - rubidium just said so too...
17:16<dihedral>as the issue must clearly be on the php side :-) guess what i am looking into :-P
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17:16<Rubidium>even though it doesn't "look" like it at first hand (it has values out of the int32 range), but that's because of the exchange rate correction from pound -> euro
17:18<peter1138>oh, dihedral is listening now?
17:19<dihedral>peter1138: yes, well, nearly started to :-P
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17:20<dihedral>when 64 bit handling was mentioned i at first thought of reading out of the packet... clearly my bad
17:20<mic>dihedral: try to read higher part into float, multiply by 2^32 and add lower part
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17:22<Eddi|zuHause>wtf? float? don't you have real int64?
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17:24<mic>size of int in php is "impl-dep" :) likely to be 32bits on such platform ) so no 64 bit int
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17:32<Phazorx>peter1138: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/910
17:32<Phazorx>sorry was busy before
17:41<mic>i configured openttd with CFLAGS=-ggdb but gdb says "(no debugging symbols found)", what may be wrong?
17:41<Rubidium>./configure --enable-debug=1 is much easier
17:42<Rubidium>assuming you use trunk
17:43<mic>thank you
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18:23<Chris82>hi, anybody still awake?
18:23<Chris82>I'd like to know how the game determines when a train is lost
18:24<Chris82>because I get lots of train is lost messages on trains which are definitly not lost
18:24<Phazorx>what PF are you using?
18:24<Rubidium>IIRC if it has taken more than X days before the train reached it's destination
18:25<Phazorx>Rubidium: NTP and NPF are limitted in range
18:25<Phazorx>on 2048 map they can get lost easily
18:26<Phazorx>last time i played 2048x128 they were getting lost with YAPF
18:26<Rubidium>NPF isn't limited in range
18:26<Phazorx>but that was due to overly high score most liekly
18:27<Phazorx>well igf it is not limitted i do not understand why 10 times mroe trains are getting lost if i replace yapf by npf
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18:33<Chris82>I am using all the new pathfinding stuff
18:33<Chris82>and although I am playing a 1024x2048 map right now the tracks aren't very long
18:34<dihedral>Rubidium: a uint64 = uint32 + uint32 << 32 ??
18:35<Phazorx>Chris82: re: which PF are you using?
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18:35<dihedral>when assining a high value directly to a variable i have no issues at all...
18:36<Rubidium>then it probably casts it to float or something similar
18:36<Chris82>I am using YAPF
18:36<dihedral>i tried casting everything that i touched to a float!
18:38<Phazorx>Chris82: are train that getting lost coast to coast along 2048?
18:38<Chris82>no absolutely not
18:39<Chris82>maybe 100 tiles long
18:39<Chris82>or even shorter
18:39<Chris82>they have full load, but it's not like they would wait very long to be fully loaded
18:41<Chris82>is it hard coded somewhere how many days with no destination reached are considered lost?
18:41<Phazorx>can you trace the lost train on full route?
18:41<Phazorx>Chris82: i dont believe that applies to yapf
18:41<Phazorx>yapf has 2 limitations which are determining whether train is lodt or not
18:41<Rubidium>Chris82: just give us a link to the savegame, otherwise we'll keep on guessing
18:42<Phazorx>overly high score and lack of route
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18:42<dihedral>i shall head to bed
18:42<dihedral>and continue the joy tomorrow :-)
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18:43<dihedral>thanks for your help Rubidium , really appreciate it
18:43<dihedral>g'night
18:43<Chris82>I'll upload a save later shortly after a lost message occurs again
18:43<Chris82>good night
18:43<Rubidium>well, rather before the lost message occurs ;)
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18:43<benc_>wouldnt it be better if you got a save right *before* the message? :)
18:43<Phazorx>is message history pasrt of save?
18:43<benc_>hard to go backwards on the complex turing machine that is openttd;)
18:43<Rubidium>no, never has been, probably never will be
18:46<Phazorx>Rubidium: just asking before comfirming that *after* would be completely useless
18:47<Rubidium>benc_: I'd rather say impossible
18:47<Chris82>hmmm I try to find a reproducable way
18:48<Chris82>because it just happens randomly with different trains, I haven't found a way to reproduce it myself yet
18:48<Chris82>so that makes it difficult to save before
18:49<Phazorx>Chris82: can you grop the trains somehow
18:49<Phazorx>and do you have one big network or many small routes?
18:50<Chris82>networks
18:51<Chris82>very complicated layouts with many signals
18:51<Phazorx>Chris82: combined networks or independant?
18:52<Phazorx>cuz where i seen that with yapf were on 4 lanes of mainline 4000 tiles long with 1000 trains on it
18:52<Chris82>you mean with different types of goods with combined?
18:52<Chris82>then they are combined
18:52<Phazorx>Chris82: i mean actualy connecting tracks
18:52<Phazorx>thisical junctions
18:52<Phazorx>physical
18:52<Chris82>no there are no junctions
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18:53<Phazorx>so there are independant pieces of tracks, not lengthy, but trains are getting lost ?
18:54<Phazorx>can you confirm that both targets of any particualr lost train are within same network (AKA connecting tracks of same type w/o interuptions)?
18:54<Phazorx>replace both with all in case if your trains arent ptp
18:54<Chris82>http://www.sandra-bullock.co.uk/images/openttd/lost.jpg
18:54<Chris82>at this station I had a few lost trains before
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18:55<Chris82>but there's nothing wrong with the layout, the trains all go the right track
18:56<Rubidium>well, I'm not so sure about that statement
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18:56<Rubidium>I myself have never had rogue lost train warnings
18:57<Chris82>I didn't get a lost message for quite a while yet as well
18:57<Phazorx>can you fit train schedule, both, all station windows and map of path in same screeny ?
18:57<Chris82>I'll raise my finger if it occurs again :D
18:57<Phazorx>Chris82: you can check mesage hystory
18:57<Phazorx>and see lost trains therer
18:57<Phazorx>it would be very good if there one reoccuring
18:57<Chris82>difficult only my server, not my company
18:57<Chris82>but when it reoccurs I'll ask my bro to do a screenie
18:58<Phazorx>message hystory is available no matter if it is client or server
18:58<Rubidium>screenies are absolutely useless.
18:58<Phazorx>Rubidium: i want to see if station are on same networks actualy
18:59<Rubidium>well, there are all kinds of causes for trains to go lost
18:59<Chris82>well it's one big steel mill station he built there and lots of iron ore stations all connected to this steel mill station
18:59<Rubidium>but it has almost always been bad network design and not an OTTD bug
18:59<Chris82>and I have checked his network very closely couldn't find any ghost trains or wrong signals
18:59<Rubidium>and lots of depots all over the place at less than 16 tiles from junctions...
18:59<Chris82>I agree with that Rubidium
18:59<Chris82>I never get the lost messages on my networks, but still his layouts look fine to me
18:59<Phazorx>Chris82: in message hystora are ther reoccuring lost train message?
19:00<Chris82>oh many depots can cause lost trains?
19:01<Phazorx>Rubidium: how woudl that be a problem?
19:01<Rubidium>well, one depot can
19:01<Phazorx>Chris82: iare breakdowns enabled?
19:01<Chris82>breakdowns are off and so is servicing
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19:01<Phazorx>in that case unless you force trains to depots
19:01<Rubidium>Phazorx: train going to nearest depot and then there's no route from that depot to it's next destination except a huge detour through several stations blablabla
19:01<Chris82>I build depots only near the main station but he has them all over the place
19:01<Phazorx>they can not really be buggeed by them
19:01<Chris82>maybe that is the problem
19:02<Phazorx>Rubidium: with breakdowns i can see that as a problem, but w/o - no
19:02<Chris82>hmmm true
19:02<Chris82>also in the latest trunk versions I didn't see any such problems even with breakdowns on
19:02<Rubidium>and *if* we've had a savegame we would've probably already given you the correct answer instead of this guess work
19:03<Phazorx>and that is true - in case of multiline networks service areas should be at same spot for all lanes and all directions
19:03<Chris82>Those "bugs" are gone for me since the late r9xxx branches
19:03<Phazorx>Chris82: with breakdowns it is not really a problem it is bad design as Rubidium says
19:04<Phazorx>err.. gtg
19:05<Chris82>http://www.sandra-bullock.co.uk/openttd/Yellow%20Corp,%2023rd%20Sep%201922.zip
19:05<Chris82>I don't know if that save helps tho since I made it with my company and not his
19:06<Rubidium>what color is he?
19:06<Chris82>there's only one other company
19:06<Rubidium>and what magic savegame is it? Won't load here
19:06<Chris82>I am yellow and he is brown I think
19:07<Chris82>ahhh bugger totally forgot
19:07<Chris82>you won't be able to load it because I increased the savegame version to 67 and I think 66 is the trunk version
19:07<Rubidium>trunk is 67
19:07<Chris82>hmmm then it's probably due to the patches I have in there like reduced air crashes, better graphs etc.
19:10<Chris82>well I just try to find a way to reproduce it
19:10<Chris82>that's the best way to find the cause ;)
19:11<Rubidium>in a game without all those patches I hope, otherwise it is a useless waste of effort because screenshots are rarely enough
19:11<Chris82>he had the problems in unpatched versions as well yeah
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19:12<Chris82>I have no patches installed which have any effect on pathfinding etc.
19:13<Rubidium>I've seen those statements before, so don't get mad when I don't trust them
19:13<Chris82>I don't get mad don't worry
19:14<Chris82>especially because I have no such problems with my networks
19:14<Chris82>so there is still a chance that he has some bogus layout with seldom but occuring errors
19:18<Chris82>I am off to bed now too, 2 a.m. hell time flies by :D lol
19:18<Chris82>good night
19:18<Hendikins>2am? Lightweight
19:18<Chris82>:p my lecture starts at 8 am
19:18<Chris82>I need my beauty sleep ;)
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19:56<Hendikins>So, what is that $600 you lose each year?
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20:02<SmatZ>I don't know
20:02<SmatZ>but I would like to know
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20:06<SmatZ>I see memmove() is used everywhere in the code ... memcpy() would be faster as the areas usually don't overlap
20:06<SmatZ>as far as i know :)
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21:22<mic>hello again :) i released "build under slopes" patch against trunk :)
21:23<mic>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32622
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21:23<benc_>whoo! i'm all over that
21:23<mic>will appreciate if somebody will see it :)
21:23<benc_>suggestion, edit the first post to link directly to the patch
21:23<benc_>people are lazy;)
21:26<mic>made so, thanks :)
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21:27<benc_>gcc?
21:27<mic>what? )
21:27<benc_>got a couple compile errors in VS 2005 express
21:27<mic>shit )
21:27<mic>good i runned into you )
21:28<mic>say where )
21:28<benc_>r/warnings/errors
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21:28<benc_>clear_cmd.cpp(215) : warning C4800: 'int' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)
21:28<benc_>clear_cmd.cpp(230) : warning C4305: 'initializing' : truncation from 'int' to 'bool'
21:28<benc_>clear_cmd.cpp(393) : warning C4806: '!=' : unsafe operation: no value of type 'bool' promoted to type 'int' can equal the given constant
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21:41<mic>i made new version without warnings
21:41<mic>benc_: have you run it?
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21:43<benc_>yes, playing around with it
21:44<mic>:)
21:44<benc_>industry graphics apparently weren't meant to ever be on foundations :(
21:44<mic>try to terraform purchased land )
21:44<benc_>http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/816/industryglitchesnv0.png
21:44<benc_>yeah, i noticed that, very cool!
21:44<mic>thanks )
21:45<mic>yea, some grid on industries
21:47<mic>try to start 7 AI and speedup game, then try to lower their constructions
21:48<mic>you can give 10millions each AI optionally
21:48<mic>to let them build more crap )
21:49<benc_>nothing's better for building crap than old ai :)
21:49<mic>:))
21:49<benc_>doesn't matter so much for initial versions of the patch i guess, but http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Coding_style
21:49<benc_>if you havent seen it already
21:54<mic>eh, crap )
21:55<benc_>nah, getting the logic right is the hard part ;)
21:55<mic>))
21:55<mic>is it necessary to rename variables?
21:55<benc_>still trying to crash it
21:55<mic>logics for terraforming?
21:56<benc_>anything that doesnt conform to the style guidelines will be done before it hits the trunk
21:56<benc_>either by the patcher (you) or the devs
21:56<mic>is it necessary to rename variables from OneTwo to one_two?
21:57<benc_>for style consistency, yeah, but dont take my word for it, i'm just a minion
21:58<mic>any crashes? :)
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22:09<mic>is oneway roads in trunk?
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22:32<mic>thr only problem that time for operations like "flooding map" may increase
22:32<mic>with this patch
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 22 00:00:57 2007