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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-24

---Logopened Sun Jun 24 00:00:21 2007
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04:06<Wolf01>TrueBrain, ping
04:06<Ammler>hi, someone here, who is fit with autopilot form Brianetta?
04:06<@TrueBrain>Wolf01: pong
04:07<Wolf01>do you remember the correct offsets for pngs?
04:07<@TrueBrain>for your pngs?
04:07<@TrueBrain>I wouldn't know
04:07<@TrueBrain>I just guessed some
04:07<Wolf01>for normal tiles
04:07<@TrueBrain> <- here are the default offsets. They are WRONG for your PNGs!
04:08<@TrueBrain>(off-by-one errors)
04:08<Wolf01>oh right, it was -31!
04:09<@TrueBrain>flat tiles mostly are
04:09<@TrueBrain>as the left center pixel mostly is at (0,16)
04:09<Wolf01>i inverted the x and y and the sign :P
04:10<@TrueBrain>I really hope you can fix the depth-perspective :)
04:10<ThomasNL>can you show us some progress Wolf01 :) ?
04:10<Wolf01>i did a redraw of all the tiles
04:10<Wolf01>so i think they are fixed now
04:10<Wolf01>maybe one or two i'm not sure
04:11<Gekko>I feel hungered.
04:11<Gekko>Is OpenTTD GPL?
04:11<Gekko>bah I'll just look at the site
04:12<hylje>or at the LICENCE
04:12<Gekko>I have a massive headache
04:12<Gekko>I aint right today
04:12<Gekko>window mode with double zoom (CTRL+D to toggle) (MS Windows only)
04:13<Gekko>why is that windows only?
04:13<@TrueBrain>it is no longer existing
04:17<Gekko>these NewGFX, 3D OpenTTD?
04:17<@TrueBrain>please don't call names in #openttd
04:17<Gekko>I called names?
04:18<hylje>hi TrueBrain ! i called your name!
04:18<Gekko>but will the new graphics make TTD 3D?
04:19<hylje>not really
04:19<@TrueBrain>Stop calling names! :)
04:19<Gekko>I'm not calling names
04:19<eekee>hehe o/
04:19<@TrueBrain>you bring two words in combination which should never be put in combination of eachother
04:20<Gekko>TrueBrain: have you ever looked at the new graphics?
04:20<hylje>omg change
04:20<Gekko>it leads me to believe that it will be 3D-ish
04:20<hylje>newgrf can have more detail
04:20<@TrueBrain>Gekko: ever looked at the original graphics? They appear 3D too
04:20<Gekko>>_> If you have the eyes of an ant
04:21<Gekko>there's no "shadows" in TTD
04:21<hylje>however wouldnt the blitter/renderer change allow for a 3d renderer?
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04:22<Wolf01>yeah, they don't fit... i need to redraw all again :/
04:23<ThomasNL>all :o ?
04:24<Wolf01>is not difficult, but i have to cut them with photoshop again
04:26<Gekko>New Graphics Development
04:26<Gekko>The new graphics development for the new graphics engine, featuring rendered sprites from 3d models, revitalising the original graphics in 32bpp colours.
04:29<ThomasNL>they are pre-rendered, not rendered run-time
04:30<Gekko>I didn't write it
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04:30<LittleMikey>Hello channel
04:31[~]eekee just got up, lol
04:32<LittleMikey>oh dear...
04:32[~]LittleMikey slaps eekee around a bit with a large trout
04:32<Gekko>@kick LittleMikey MIRC
04:32[~]Prof_Frink hasn't got up yet
04:32<LittleMikey>this is not good...
04:33<eekee>fish! *chomps*
04:33<LittleMikey>So... I hear you guys play openttd?
04:33<eekee>Not really, we just hang out here & talk about it ;)
04:34<LittleMikey>I was directed here from #openttdcoop
04:34<LittleMikey>I want a better AI, and I was told someone on here would have it.
04:34<eekee>Ah ^^
04:34<Gekko>when will the "alpha" AI not be alpha
04:34<Gekko>and fix it's memory leaks
04:35<LittleMikey>Dont ask me ^_^
04:35<eekee>hehe, it'll come in time, I'm sure
04:35<LittleMikey>I just hate whatching the AI build rails like /\/\/\/\
04:35<Jerub>afaik, if you want an AI that can make road vehicles, use the alpha :p
04:36<LittleMikey>Now, I guess I should ask, what does afaik mean
04:36<Jerub>then again, in my current game, the only successful AI used a road route within a single town, and it's 200% larger than the next largest town
04:37<Gekko>I hate how the non-alpha AI just terraforms
04:37<Gekko>they rape all the sexy sexy land
04:37<LittleMikey>and terraforms...
04:37<LittleMikey>and then builds a 4x3 airport ^_^
04:37<Tefad>and goes bankrupt due to said terraforming
04:37|-|Haclet [] has joined #openttd
04:37<Gekko>ONLY I am allowed to rape the land
04:37<Gekko>and pillage the women
04:38|-|Progman [] has joined #openttd
04:38<LittleMikey>dont you mean Pillage the land and rape the women?
04:38<Haclet>Hi Guys
04:38<Tefad>no no no you have to burn it all first
04:38<Gekko>That's what I want you to think
04:38<Gekko>Falling sand game
04:38<Haclet>Could you tell me how execly does work timetable :)
04:38<LittleMikey>Falling sand game? where
04:38<Haclet>I made some experiment - but I don't understand :)
04:38<Haclet>I crete two trains
04:39<Haclet>I set timetable - travel bettween station 20 days
04:39<Gekko>there's a timetable?
04:39<Haclet>Gekko: yeeap :)
04:39<LittleMikey>are you sure you're talking about OTTD?
04:39<Haclet>Yes :)
04:39<Haclet>last version from SVN
04:40<Gekko>wheres the SVN history list
04:40<Haclet>if you go to "GOTO" in vehicle - you have timetable on right-top
04:40<Haclet>And train is going from one station to anoter only 11 days - so It is 9 days earli ?
04:40<Haclet>So that means it will be wait next 9 days to be on time ?
04:41|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
04:41<Haclet>Is there some document which describes that ?
04:41<Gekko>Haclet: if it was just put into circulation, then I doubt theres documentation
04:41<Gekko>did you compile your own OTTD?
04:41<LittleMikey>I'm not sure... I honestly dont know what you are talking about, I use the win9x version
04:41<Gekko>LittleMikey: Linux
04:41<eekee>Haclet: I made some experiments too, and all I got is that it doesn't wait if it's early :/ You can manually set it to wait at a station, but that's it
04:41<Haclet>Gekko: Yes - I download it from SVN and compile it
04:42<Gekko>when did you last compile it
04:42<eekee>me too I think. r10292 anyway
04:42<Gekko>TrueBrain: trac is down
04:42<Gekko>so I can't see the history
04:43<Gekko>nasty nasty men you are.
04:43<Haclet>eekee: I don't reali understand ... :)
04:43<eekee>Haclet: I'm not sure I do :)
04:43<Gekko>Haclet: I am downloading the current version now
04:43<Gekko>I shall test
04:43<Haclet>"This vechile is currently running 46 days early"
04:44<eekee>Yeah :/ lol
04:44<Haclet>Gekko: OK
04:44<LittleMikey>and to think I complain when the trains run 15 mins late...
04:44<eekee>Latest nightly has timetables
04:44<Haclet>eekee: so - I have download and compile it as well :)
04:44<eekee>heh, yeah! There' an option to make timetables give values in ticks, rather than days
04:44<LittleMikey>hmm, i'm using 10295
04:44<Gekko>Haclet: that's possible because it has full load alreayd?
04:45<Haclet>Gekko: Yes it is set
04:45<Haclet>Gekko: but what is execly timetable for :)
04:45<Gekko>no clue
04:45<Gekko>it could be for people
04:45<Haclet>Gekko: if I set Full Load (for example for coal) - so what can I do with timetable ;)
04:45<Gekko>who dont quite want full load
04:45<Gekko>incase theres no goods
04:45<Gekko>it leaves with half empty
04:45<Haclet>Gekko: hmmm - I didn't check that :)
04:46<eekee>can can make it wait at stations, that's the only good thing about it I know of, lol, but when you do, you have to give travel time too
04:46<eekee>well, I only tried itw/o full load
04:46<Haclet>WOW - developers of OTTD every day suprise me with meny changes in code :P
04:46<eekee>They don't give it the chance to get boring ^^'
04:47<LittleMikey>Hmm, I see this new timetable option
04:47<Haclet>eekee: Right :)
04:47<Haclet>These developers go to sleep :) :)
04:48<Haclet>Compiling the lastest SVN Version in progress ... ;)
04:49<Haclet>And I have second problem - for example the train is going to depot (without my order)
04:49<Tefad>tends to happen when it needs it
04:49<Haclet>And after leaving depot it going to breake down ?
04:49<Haclet>Why - it should be serviced - but I think is not ...
04:49<Tefad>only if it's ancient
04:49<eekee>haha yes, royally annoying. I'm starting to force trains into depots
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04:50<Haclet>eekee: so, do you suggest that is only one good solution - to give tham order to go to depot ? :)
04:51<Haclet>eekee: so with timetable we can count how much days taking travel - and when trains should go to depot ?
04:51<eekee>The other way to do it is use "Service intervals are in %" and then you give them orders to service at a depot rather than go to depot.
04:51<eekee>Yeah, you can try. I haven't tried that yet
04:52<Haclet>When are you playing in OTTD - do you change default setting of days - when vechicles should go to service ?
04:53<Haclet>I think I can be good tester of OTTD, as we all :)
04:53<Gekko>I'm setting up a server soon
04:53<Gekko>just for me and my friends, yet still dedicated
04:53<eekee>only for service intervals in %
04:54<Haclet>Gekko: and IP is :) :) :) ??
04:54<Gekko>not done yet
04:54<Gekko>are you British Haclet?
04:54<LittleMikey>judging by the grammar... no
04:55<Gekko>but his IP is
04:55<Haclet>ooo - next question? I haven't seen it in network configuration. It is possible put manualy IP of some server - or OTTD just reading list from main server and we can play only of that games ?
04:55<Gekko>maybe English isnt you first language Haclet?
04:55<Haclet>Gekko: I am leaving in Scotland :) But I am Polish :)
04:55<Gekko>I see.
04:55<Gekko>slavic language
04:55<Gekko>it's like anti-germanic
04:55<Haclet>Gekko: defenetly english is not my main language - but I hope you understand me :) :)
04:56<Gekko>yeah it's good
04:56<Gekko>as long as you can read ours
04:56<Gekko>its easy to understand others
04:56<LittleMikey>thats the main thing
04:56<Haclet>Gekko: don't worry - I improving my english every day so one day :) :) ... :)
04:56<stillunknown>Haclet: definitely ;-)
04:56<Haclet>stillunknown: thx ;)
04:57<stillunknown>It was also a correction on your spelling if you didn't notice.
04:57<Haclet>Gekko: you see - stillunknown just learned me new word :D
04:57<Gekko>when someone makes you learn, they teach you
04:58<Haclet>ok - I can start use some english spelling via IRC :)
04:58<stillunknown>A spell checker in irc also helps.
04:58<Haclet>stillunknown: Thx again :)
04:58<stillunknown>But it doesn't help with grammar.
04:59<Haclet>stillunknown: You are right :) with grammar you all help me - and one day my english will be very very good ;)
04:59<Haclet>:) :) :)
04:59<Gekko>Haclet: using Linux?
04:59<Haclet>yeap last version has been compilled :) ... It is time to check it :)
05:00<Haclet>Gekko: any time when I can :)
05:00<Gekko>on Linux, get aspell and gtkspell
05:00<Haclet>Gekko: 7 years working under Linux - :)
05:00<Gekko>they add typo checking under most apps
05:00<Haclet>Gekko: I'll configure it on my spare time ;)
05:01<Gekko>I <3 Puppy Linux
05:01<Haclet>Gekko: Tomorrow I am starting new job :) So I will be a little more busy ;)
05:01<Gekko>This falling sand game is stopping me from playing TTD!
05:01<Prof_Frink>Haclet: You're trying to learn English via IRC?
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05:02<Wolf01>will be possible to use a file to store the offsets like the nfo but more readable by a human?
05:02<Haclet>Prof_Frink: No :) I am trying talk with people and make sure that they will understand me ;)
05:02<Tefad>heh gtkspell doesn't add spell check to xterm or irssi ; )
05:03<Rubidium>Wolf01: and then use pngcodec to update all offsets in the pngs?
05:03<Prof_Frink>tab-completion of any words
05:03<Haclet>Tefad: thx - for advice :)
05:03<eekee>There's probably a spell check module for irssi -- and Prof_Frinklists it, hehe
05:03<Wolf01>Rubidium, no, read them directly from the file
05:04<eekee>as to spell cheecking in xterms generally -- Pilistine! hehe
05:04<Rubidium>Wolf01: grfs don't read from a second file either
05:04<Tefad>Prof_Frink: muahaha
05:04<Gekko>Haclet: I don't see the schedule anywhere
05:04<Rubidium>keeping the offsets with the image is the best thing to do in my opinion
05:05<Wolf01>grfs have all in one file, with 32bpp we may use a .nfo, the .png all packed in a .tar
05:05<Rubidium>but reading from a second file makes everything much more complicated that necessary
05:06<Haclet>Gekko: Go to any window of vechile (f.e train)
05:06<Wolf01>not if you want to change the offsets, or maybe implement the actioncodes, so if something goes wrong you have to fix only the nfo
05:06<Gekko>Haclet: I know why
05:06<Rubidium>just make a tool that reads the "nfo" and packs the pngcodec-ed pngs in the .tar
05:06<Gekko>one moment
05:06<Haclet>Click - show vechicle orders'
05:06<Wolf01>without recode the whole
05:06<Haclet>On right side of topic
05:07<Haclet>and make sure you have patch on
05:07<Rubidium>Wolf01: the pngs are NOT going to support the actions codes or whatever newgrf does
05:07<Wolf01>so no 32bpp vehicle sets? :(
05:07<Rubidium>it just replaces sprites from standard grfs and even newgrfs. All the action code has to come from the newgrf
05:07<Rubidium>Wolf01: well, only if it has a 8bpp grf
05:07<Haclet>Configure patches: Vehicles, On the bottom - Enable timetabling for vehicles.
05:08<Gekko>Haclet: that's cool
05:08<Wolf01>then the work has to be done twice
05:08<Rubidium>otherwise it would be unplayable over the network for people who want to use 8bpp (for speed)
05:08<Wolf01>first draw 8bpp, code them, then draw 32bpp then recode them
05:09<Haclet>Hmmm and still doesn't work how I expected :)
05:10<eekee>I think I'm beginning to get the hang of this timetabling. Of course, now I've said that, it's going to go horribly worng :)
05:11<Haclet>"horribly worng" ??? (wrong) ?
05:11<Wolf01>what about the licenses then? if i want to use UKRS with 32bpp, i might not be allowed to use it as source for the nfo
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05:11<stillunknown>Haclet: very wrong
05:12<stillunknown>Not like a small problem, but a huge one.
05:12<Haclet>Maybe the better idea is just loggin how much time train travel between one point to another
05:12<Eddi|zuHause2><Tefad> and goes bankrupt due to said terraforming <- actually, the AI does terraforming for free
05:12<eekee>*wrong, sorry :D
05:13<Gekko>Eddi|zuHause2: why
05:13<Eddi|zuHause2>because of exactly that reason :p
05:13<Gekko>any devs here?
05:13<Gekko>I need to ask why on the Linux nightly it says exit to UNIX
05:13<Eddi|zuHause2>this was already in TTO
05:13<Gekko>it insults me as UNIX is closed source
05:14<Haclet>We know that is very importent taking cargo from factories (if whe takken more - we more chance to increase it) and I think the good ide for start will be just logged how many days takes loading/unloading and travel - what do you think ?
05:14<eekee>Not so sure, Gekko
05:14<stillunknown>What should it say, exit to whatever posix compatible os you use.
05:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Gekko: a) because it is not a linux nightly, and b) change it, it is open source after all :p
05:14<Gekko>Eddi|zuHause2: yeh, it is a linux nightly
05:14<Gekko>linux-i686 (bz2 - gz)
05:15<eekee>I think any compatible OS can get certified & call itself Unix
05:15<XeryusTC><Gekko> it insults me as UNIX is closed source *cough* snob *cough*
05:15<Gekko>not true
05:15<eekee>Oh hey, that's another thing. The trademark is Unix, UNIX is not trademarked & other systems are allowed to use it
05:15<Haclet>Linux is almost like UNIX :) it is stille similar system
05:15<eekee>Gekko: BSD != POSIX iirc
05:15<Gekko>but it ISNT UNIX :0
05:15<Rubidium>Wolf01: that depends on the author of the newgrf; I think you must ask the author first whether you may actually make those 32bpp sprites
05:16<Gekko>couldnt it use the uname variable
05:16<Gekko>uname as a variable
05:16<Gekko>type uname
05:16<Gekko>it just says Linux
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05:16<eekee>yeah, that could work
05:17<Gekko>I don't program C, I know the concept
05:17<Gekko>but could that be dynamic?
05:17[~]eekee looks up uname's source code
05:17<Gekko>like call uname and save it in a file?
05:17<Gekko>in the settings file even
05:17<eekee>oh at make time? Could work, yeah
05:17<Haclet>Gekko: I think the better is just make another line in configure file ;)
05:17<Gekko>that's what I just said
05:17<Gekko>but dynamically does it
05:18<Haclet>Gekko: it is possible to detect system while compiling
05:19<Gekko>Haclet: I know
05:19<Gekko>I do compile a hell of a lot
05:19<Gekko>I modify C, etc.
05:19<Gekko>but for people who download the nightlies and the stable version, this isnt an option
05:19<Haclet>Gekko: you are claver person :)
05:20<Haclet>Gekko: you are right :)
05:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10299 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange [FS#931]: industry foundations should be drawn as all other foundations, i.e. with DrawFoundation, instead of writing the same functionality itself.
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05:21<Gekko>lol @ that bugfix
05:21<Gekko>that should shrink the code considerably
05:22<eekee>There's a uname system call. man 2 uname
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05:22<dihedral>hey guys
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05:22<Gekko>eekee: cool
05:23<Gekko>so it could be put in the code?
05:23<Haclet>eekee: ok I know what the uname is - but it is same to allow run external command in game ?
05:23<Gekko>eekee: easily?
05:23<eekee>Haclet: that isn't an external command, that's a C function call
05:23<Haclet>ow ;) sorry I forgot about it :)
05:23<eekee>dihedral: We're talking about changing the "Do you want to abandon this game & return to UNIX" prompt. I sugest calling the uname() system call
05:23<eekee>ok hehe
05:24<Rubidium>oh, how important...
05:24<eekee>Oh TOTALLY XD
05:24<Rubidium>too bad it's a fixed string
05:25<dihedral>replace UNIX with "Your OS"
05:25<dihedral>and then it's the same on all systems :-D
05:25<eekee>hehe, that could be patched, I'm sure. Would need to change the lang filles.. hmm, might be able to do that w/o knowing the languages I guess
05:25<eekee>ugh! XD
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05:26<dihedral>Rubidium: could one add a timestamp to the the game that is updated each new game?
05:26<dihedral>not that it would mean a lot to games :-S
05:26<Haclet>OK - I have to go :)
05:27<Haclet>So see you ASAP ;)
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05:28<Gekko>Rubidium: lol the Lang's have it embedded in them?
05:29<dihedral>Rubidium: it would actually just be helpful to doing some mining :-D
05:29<dihedral>so there is a clear distinction from one game to another
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05:32<Rubidium>dihedral: not worth the effort; would mean changing a *lot* of stuff without any real gain
05:33<Gekko>Rubidium: to add uname(), langs would need editing?
05:33<dihedral>why would a lot have to be changed?
05:33<dihedral>Gekko: he is refering to adding a timestamp
05:33<Rubidium>well, next thing you are going to ask is "can it be in the 'server info'" packet...
05:34<dihedral>that would mean the info version would have to be upped one
05:34<Gekko>yeah but im asking a question
05:34<Rubidium>then what's the use of it? Just check whether the seed of the game differs
05:34<Rubidium>Gekko: yes
05:35<dihedral>but the seed would be the same if the i loaded a save game
05:35<Rubidium>and uname MUST be available on all systems that are not one of the other systems that has their name in that list
05:35<Gekko>Rubidium: sed s/UNIX/uname()/g ?
05:36<@peter1138>Do you want to abandon this game & return to uname()" ?
05:36<Gekko>lol exactly.
05:36<Rubidium>Gekko: no. Furthermore BSD doesn't have uname if I read the manpage correctly, i.e. it will not work
05:36<Gekko>peter1138: how would it be implemented then
05:36<dihedral>Rubidium: i would more likely ask for it to be a separate udp query :-D
05:36<Prof_Frink>Yeah, 'cause GNU's Not...
05:37<dihedral>and only included in info if there were an update to info anyway
05:37<Gekko>well make a linux variant
05:37<Gekko>or as said before
05:37<Gekko>just make it an option in the config
05:38<Rubidium>Gekko: or just modify the langfile locally before you compile
05:38<dihedral>Gekko: you should not be quitting the game that often anyway
05:38<dihedral>then you dont get to see that message :-)
05:38<Gekko>my PC turns off nightly
05:38<Prof_Frink>dihedral: We'd have to more often when they remove the bugs
05:38<Gekko>Rubidium: wouldnt it be easy to implement the option in the config?
05:39<dihedral>Prof_Frink: what bug would influence the info packet?
05:39<dihedral>Gekko: if it were set at compile time, what would all those guys do who use a pre-built package?
05:40<Prof_Frink>dihedral: I mean, we'd have to exit more often if openttd didn't crash :p
05:40<dihedral>was thinking a different topic :-)
05:40<Gekko>dihedral: that's what I was saying
05:40<Gekko>I didnt want it at build time
05:40<Gekko>i wanted it for prebuilt
05:41<eekee>That could cause as much annoyance as UNIX
05:41<Gekko>why should Windows be known as Windows then >_>
05:42<dihedral>rename the string to "OK, you may go outside and play now"
05:42<Gekko>i bet ReactOS doesnt "exit to Windows"
05:42<eekee>I bet it does :D
05:42<Gekko>load it
05:42<Rubidium>yes, and when using wine it says return to windows too
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05:42<Gekko>no shit
05:43<dihedral>btw: Rubidium or TrueBrain: wil lthe economy patch get backported?
05:43<Rubidium>so IF you are going to "fix" it, fix it properly!
05:43<Jerub>just say 'exit'
05:43<Rubidium>dihedral: what economy patch?
05:43<Jerub>no one 'exits to XXX' anymore since dos. these days you can do this multitask thing
05:43<Gekko>Jerub: good point
05:43<Gekko>"Exit to your respective Operating Systems"
05:43<Gekko>Window manager even
05:44<dihedral>Rubidium: r10290
05:44<Jerub>"LEAV?E! DONT LEAVE!!!1!!eleven!!!"
05:44<Jerub>that's better.
05:44<stillunknown>Let's not ruin the one thing good thing about ottd.
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05:44<Rubidium>dihedral: that is the idea yes
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05:44<Gekko>stillunknown: one thing good?
05:44<Gekko>what one thing good
05:45<stillunknown>the exit menu ;-)
05:45<Gekko>are you for realisms
05:45<Gekko>if you wanted it to stay the same, it would say Exit to DOS
05:45|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
05:45<stillunknown>It was a joke, those things people sometimes make.
05:45<stillunknown>Some more enjoyable than others.
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05:50<stillunknown>SmatZ: What do my eyes see, a crazy user who runs irc as root.
05:52<Gekko>I just picked up two wireless connections from my room
05:52<Gekko>one unencrypted
05:52<SmatZ>stillunknown: errrrm :-D
05:52<Gekko>bah he doesnt have DHCP
05:52<Gekko>who doesnt have DHCP these days
05:53<Prof_Frink>Gekko: Or is macfiltering
05:53|-|SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
05:53<Gekko>no, I know this dude
06:01<eekee>there's some means you cna use to find the ip, so you can allocate your own static one in the same network. I forget what it is now though
06:01<Gekko>dont need it
06:01<Gekko>i have my own internet
06:01<Gekko>I'm not below the poverty line
06:01<Gekko>if you have multiple internet connections, can you exploit the speed?
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06:07<eekee>uhh... not w/o cooperation at the other end, I think? Could be wrong
06:07<Prof_Frink>Gekko: Kismet'll do things like that
06:07<Gekko>I <3 Illegal activity
06:08<Gekko>but don't tell the FBI agent standing over there listening in
06:08<Gekko>can I use my wireless router as a wireless client?
06:09<Gekko>Prof_Frink it was directed at
06:16<Wolf01>uhm... tiles from 72 to 75 need to be redesigned, but i don't know how to do it because there is one step less :/
06:17<eekee>ooh! :D
06:18<Gekko>wtf is it
06:18<Thomas[NL]>how do you mean is one step less?
06:19<Rubidium>steep sloped tiles do not align properly I guess
06:20<Wolf01>i'll post a picture in the forum
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06:21<Jerub>what causes random destruction of bits of the map
06:22<Jerub>just every so often I find a square block of train track destroyed and trains not making profit
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06:25<Gekko>can UFO be disabled?
06:25<Gekko>it's just not cool
06:26<Rubidium>it's a disaster and all disasters can be disabled
06:26<Thomas[NL]>Wolf01, you normal flat tiles miss a line of pixels on the SE & SW side, next to another ground sprite it is correct but try a road/building /whatever
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06:26<kaan>good morning :)
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06:27<Jerub>heh. 112million/year income from trains
06:27<Jerub><3 trains
06:28<Thomas[NL]>Wolf01, that is for almost all tiles I see now.
06:29<@peter1138>that's more likely to just be an offset issue
06:29<@peter1138>if the flat tiles didn't line up then it would be missing pixels
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06:31<Thomas[NL]>I think all y-offsets are off by +1
06:33<Wolf01>[13:19:14] <Thomas[NL]> how do you mean is one step less? ->
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06:37[~]dihedral thinks eekee giggles like a girl
06:37<eekee>I'm wierd, don't mind me
06:38[~]dihedral does not pay attention to eekee as he/she is weird anyway
06:39<eekee>bbl, goin out, get eats
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06:39[~]dihedral is eating atm too
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06:57<hylje>can tile sprites be larger than their area?
06:57<hylje>ie. overflowing
06:57<Gekko>why not
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06:59<Rubidium>hylje: then they would overflow their foundations
06:59<@peter1138>fundamentals of tessellation
06:59<Thomas[NL]>if so maybe it is smart Wolf01 to trow a mask with the original sprite-sizes over yours. offsets are easier and missing pixels are easier to spot.
07:00<Gekko>peter1138: but in a 0D world, everything tesselates
07:01<@peter1138>a what?
07:01<Gekko>naught dimension
07:01<@peter1138>in a 0D world you have a single point
07:02<hylje>and thats it
07:02[~]dihedral is going to install debian lenny now
07:02<dihedral>see you guys later on :-)
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07:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10300 /trunk/src/ (42 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#917]: give a better explanation why the loading of a savegame failed and do not crash on loading savegames that were altered by patches or branches.
07:47<kaan>nice one rub
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07:52<Gekko>I haven't used Windows for three weeks :)
07:53|-|orudge [~orudge@] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.]
07:54<Rubidium>still you are like a windows user...
07:55<Gekko>how so?
07:55<Gekko>running as root?
07:55<Rubidium>running "user applications" as superuser
07:55<Gekko>this is an embedded linux
07:55<Gekko>no user accounts
07:57<Rubidium>then it's broken by design
07:58<Gekko>you cant break tmpfs
07:58<Gekko>or a readonly fs
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08:11<kaan>Gekko: did you join a 12 step program? :P
08:12<kaan>never mind, bad joke
08:12<kaan>the only kind i know ;)
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08:15<kaan>so what are the ideas for a new name for OTTD?
08:19<Gekko>Cargo Transporter
08:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10301 /trunk/src/yapf/ (6 files): -Fix [FS#901, YAPF]: another assert violation in some special cases (immeR)
08:20<Prof_Frink>kaan: "OTTD is not Transport Tycoon Deluxe"
08:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10302 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [YAPF, MP]: now (with r10301) it is no longer needed to invalidate the YAPF segment cache every tick in MP. Segment cost now doesn't contain the curves between segments. As a result the cache should be now accurate.
08:23<Tobin>Good old YAPF.
08:24<Tobin>Heh, it seems like it was so long ago that YAPF wasn't in the trunk.
08:24<Gekko>Prof_Frink: then it would be ONTTDX
08:24<eekee>Prof_Frink: NTTD would say the same in more compact form, but I don't think it's what the programmers want
08:25<@peter1138>why do people feel the need to abbreviate deluxe to DX ?
08:25<Gekko>peter1138: sx appeal
08:26<Prof_Frink>Because they're silly
08:26<eekee>saves typing. I hate typing out names, they dont' slow like words do
08:26<Tobin>Don't know but it could be _much_ worse.
08:26<Prof_Frink>And TTDPatch is called TTDXPatch
08:26<Prof_Frink>Oh wait...
08:27<Prof_Frink>Or maybe because shows with X in the name get better ratings
08:27<Gekko>why do they spell know with a silent k & w?
08:27<Prof_Frink>To avoid confusion with the negative response.
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08:28<Tobin>Gekko: That sort of thing is usually due to the history of the words.
08:29<@peter1138>also, you missed the point
08:29<@peter1138>you abbreviate open to O, transport to T, tycoon to T and deluxe to DX ??
08:29<Gekko>of course
08:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10303 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: -Fix [YAPF](r10301): warning: unused variable tile_cost (peter1138)
08:31<Prof_Frink>deluxeness makes no noise.
08:31<eekee>lol ^^
08:32<Gekko>it should
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08:32<Gekko>metaphorically the DX is D.
08:33<Tobin>Prof_Frink: Sure it does, mostly it's the sound of linguists sighing putting their heads in their hands.
08:33<Prof_Frink>s/hands in/guns to/
08:33<Prof_Frink>I need to learn to read
08:33<eekee>SO do we all, Professor, so do we all
08:33<Tobin>Alternatively, it's the sound of English teachers everywhere throwing their hands in the air in resignation.
08:34<kaan>do we want a name like ... joomla or something?
08:34<Tobin>kaan: Depends. What kind of sound does that make?
08:34<eekee>ugh wai? What's wrong with OpenTTD?
08:35<Gekko>TT Alternative
08:35<kaan>well joomla is taken, its just an example of an open source project that got a sexy new name
08:35<@peter1138>joomla is sexy? :o
08:35<eekee>any of those could apply to TTDPatch, OpenTTD couldn't
08:35<kaan>its in the objectives
08:35<kaan>i just read it, thats why i ask
08:36<kaan>peter1138: year, its riding the ubuntu wave :P
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08:36<kaan>i cant even spell today
08:37<kaan>i get slag wrong, how emarrasing
08:37<kaan>and again *slang
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08:37<kaan>ok i just shut up now
08:37<@peter1138>remember, just because it's on the wiki doesn't mean it's true ;)
08:38<eekee>ugh :D
08:38<eekee>when the new, simple 32-bit support went in, one or 2 of the devs were making a lot of noise about how they wanted this to remain openttd, not make it into some new game entirely, which peoples expectations for the 32-bit support would have done
08:38<kaan>does that mean that i should remove it from the wiki then?
08:39<eekee>good one
08:39<@peter1138>hmm, didn't mean to paste that :p
08:40<kaan>but you did, you inner thoughts are revealed :P
08:41<Gekko>eekee: lol@me?
08:41<kaan>well peter1138, should i remove it then?
08:41<eekee>yeah, forkenhouser :D
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08:44<@peter1138>reading through the roadmap is funny though :)
08:46<kaan>ill leave it in
08:46<Biff>hmm, newindustries
08:46<Gekko>link it to wishlist
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08:51<kaan>at what revision did one-way roads make it to trunk?
08:52<Biff>are one-way roads in trunk?
08:52<Biff>i missed both trams and one way roads :P
08:52<Gekko>oneway roads?
08:53<Biff>hmm, i dunno how to build them tho
08:53<kaan>at the buttom
08:53<Gekko>how do i use vsuch a useless contraption?
08:54<Biff>hmm, i wonder if it can be used to anything
08:55<Gekko>to ... anything?
08:55<kaan>the stop one should be extremely useful
08:55<Gekko>how so
08:56<kaan>to prevent trucks from going stupid places, like crossing a railroad
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08:57<hylje>or to make efficient roads
08:57<hylje>or to make efficient roif there is a such thing
08:58<Biff>if someone would make road trains it could be fun :P
08:58<hylje>Biff: articulated road cdehs
08:58<hylje>Biff: vehs
08:58<Gekko>as in lights?
08:58<hylje>freeform truck making would help
08:59<hylje>roadstops are stop-ln-go stations
08:59<Thomas[NL]>!openttd log 9999
08:59<_42_>Thomas[NL]: r9999 log: -Feature: make it possible to disallow busses and lorries to go a specific way on straight pieces of road.
08:59<hylje>much like roro stations
08:59<hylje>roro is a generic term
09:00<hylje>look it up
09:00<hylje>ships can be roro
09:00<hylje>stations can be roro
09:00<kaan>thanks Thomas[NL]
09:00<@peter1138>heh, roadstops are ottd's term for any road-based station
09:00<hylje>you go out other way you go in
09:01<Biff>wikipedia says ro-ro is used with ships
09:01<Gekko>Biff: link?
09:01<@peter1138>yes, it is
09:01<Biff>thats the first time someone has asked me for a link to wikipedia :P
09:02<Gekko>Biff: im on a pda
09:02<Gekko>typing = chore
09:03<dihedral>yes - makes sense
09:03<Prof_Frink>Typing on my Z ain't too bad
09:03<Biff>Gekko: i see
09:03<Gekko>wheres the 1.0 roadmap
09:03<Gekko>Prof_Frink: Palm TX
09:04<Gekko>onscreen kbd.
09:04<Prof_Frink>They're less fun
09:04<Gekko>macroed passwd buttons
09:04<dihedral>installing debian (netinst) is a pain if one only as a 2 mbit dsl line!
09:05<Gekko>plus it was about US$120
09:05<dihedral>takes way too long
09:05<Gekko>dihedral: try 20kb/s
09:05<Gekko>you jerk
09:05<hylje>i has 1.2MB/s
09:05<dihedral>MB or Mb
09:05<Gekko>take ur internet for granted.
09:06<dihedral>i pay for it
09:06<hylje>B as in byte
09:06<Gekko>i pay au$70 for 1500kbit
09:06<dihedral>i take nothing for granted that i have to pay for
09:06[~]Prof_Frink is ircing on his pda
09:06<Gekko>with a 12gb limit
09:06<hylje>for the record, so am i Prof_Frink
09:07<Gekko>Prof_Frink: urs is a UMPC
09:07[~]dihedral hates bandwidth limits
09:07<Gekko>Zaurus Z?
09:07<hylje>Gekko: no it isnt?
09:07<Prof_Frink>Gekko: Yeah.
09:08<Gekko>its a mini laptop
09:08<Prof_Frink>not really
09:08<Gekko>pda requires 16mb of ram
09:08<Gekko>no more.
09:09<Gekko>i hacked my palm to multitask
09:09<Phazorx>can i make small suggestion
09:09<hylje>pda-ness is defined by ths usage
09:09<Gekko>ssh + msn
09:09<Phazorx>to whoever made loading indicators
09:09<hylje>noot by specs
09:09<Phazorx>it would be very nice if they would be different color than white
09:10<Gekko>hylje: then mine is a workstation
09:10<hylje>umpc is "smallest computer to run Windows XP/Vusta"
09:10<Phazorx>like cyan for example
09:10<Prof_Frink>*This* is a mini-laptop
09:10<Prof_Frink>this is a laptop
09:10<Prof_Frink>and this is a pda
09:10<Prof_Frink>simple, really
09:10<hylje>a mobile phone which happens to run apps is not suddenly a laptop or whatnot
09:10<Gekko>yes it is!
09:11<Prof_Frink>(Oh, and screen rules)
09:11<Gekko>Prof_Frink: yes it does
09:11<Gekko>having 3 canadian ssh servers is nice too
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09:12<Prof_Frink>One croydonian one is enough really
09:12<Prof_Frink>especially when it's full of stuff to download
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09:31<kaan>i updated this page a bit, did i miss any?
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09:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10304 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: -Fix [YAPF](r10301): removed assert which could violate without danger when searching for the nearest depot. From now on the segment can be closed without reason in that case (peter1138)
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09:53<Wolf01>stillunknown, do you plan to add collision checking for ships in your patch? (maybe is already there, but i can't understand easily it :P)
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09:54<stillunknown>Wolf01: I have not added features at this stage, and do not intend to do that.
09:55<stillunknown>As far as i know, ships don't collide atm.
09:55<Wolf01>yes, that's why i asked for ships collisions
09:56<stillunknown>I'd like to finish and get it merged as a cleanup patch, then move on to functional improvements.
09:56<Smoovious>that'd be kinda hard... don't have a method of picking specific routes for ships...
09:56<Smoovious>maybe enough to keep them off of the same tile, and have a ship collision possible as a disaster?
09:57<Wolf01>maybe ships can use A* in large scale, and something like YAPF in little scale
09:57<stillunknown>yapf is A* iirc
09:58<Wolf01>or NPF?
09:59<Wolf01>ok, i meant, something to find a general route through the map, like dividing the map into 16*16 squares, and another, or maybe the same, patfhinding for "local" movement
10:01[~]stillunknown is away
10:01<stillunknown>Wolf01: will talk later
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10:43<Chris82>hi :)
10:43<Prof_Frink>Greetings, Earthling
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11:02<myrka>i have lost my "how to make goof money with little time Feelin" with half year
11:06<@orudge>Ooh, nice, Paul *did* upload his build environment
11:06[~]orudge may be able to get OpenTTD to work after all
11:07<Prof_Frink>orudge: So, how long until the RudgeOS port?
11:07<@orudge>Well, I didn't get much further with RudgeOS than a very basic menu
11:07<@orudge>I do still have it somewhere
11:07<@orudge>in all its glory, a few bits of assembler and a couple of bits of C
11:07<@orudge>16-bit goodness
11:07<dihedral>is some sharing tracks stuff in trunk/
11:08<hylje>i dont believe
11:11<@peter1138>dihedral: no
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11:12<myrka>are the 1% / 10% / 50% / etc loading excluded?
11:12<myrka>from trunk
11:15<@peter1138>specifying the load amount by percentage is not in trunk, no.
11:17<myrka>ok thx
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11:21<Chris82>I have a patch code question
11:21<Chris82>if (++v->load_unload_time_rem < _patches.wait_oneway_signal * 20) return;
11:21<Chris82>is the 20 equivalent for 20 DAY_TICKS ?
11:21<Chris82>or what's the result of this multiplication?
11:23<Chris82>line 2867 in train_cmd.cpp in r10304 btw
11:25<Chris82>the description for this is
11:25<Chris82>byte wait_oneway_signal; // waitingtime in days before a oneway signal
11:25<Chris82>but I don't know how this patch knows what one day is
11:26<@peter1138>days would be * 74
11:26<Chris82>I mean patch value * 20 ok... well, 20 what?
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11:28<Chris82>also in settings.cpp the default value for this patch is set to 0 although max is 15 and min is 2 so the default is illegal
11:28<Chris82>and 0 * 20 would be rubbish anyway because the < will always return false with the default value
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10305 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-24 18:32:39
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 33 fixed by WhiteRabbit (33)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 5 fixed by tucalipe (5)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 5 fixed, 7 changed by arnaullv (12)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 5 fixed by lorenzodv (5)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: japanese - 8 fixed by ickoonite (8)
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11:43<kaan>Chris82: so basicly you found what?
11:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10306 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#890]: the fix in r10219 was not enough to stop this bug from happening.
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11:49<Chris82>kaan: Sorry I don't understand what you mean.
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11:52<kaan>Chris82: sorry, what i meant to ask is: what is your question?
11:55<Chris82>Oh, well my problem is that I don't understand how this patch calculates how long a train waits in front of a signal.
11:55<Chris82>I have a min setting of 2 and a max setting of 15
11:55<Chris82>so let's say I choose 10 then I have 10 * 20 waiting time before the train switches direction
11:56<Chris82>I highly doubt it's 200 days so I want to know what the 200 are
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11:57<Chris82>if it was 10 * DAY_TICKS or something like that, fine, but * 20 just says nothing and doesn't work imho
12:04<@peter1138>well it's 200 ticks
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12:08<Chris82>k thx :) if it's TICKS I know what it does
12:10<Wolf01>it says ticks... DAY_TICKS are 74
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12:13<Chris82>yeah 1 tick is around 3 ms I think
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12:14<Chris82>right wrong conversion from 0,03s
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>what exactly is a "right wrong conversion"? is there a "left wrong conversion" or a "wrong wrong conversion"?
12:22<@peter1138>or a wrong right conversion?
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12:24[~]orudge should hopefully have an OpenTTD 0.5.2 binary for OS/2 up at last :p
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12:27<Rubidium>orudge: hopefully 0.5.3 isn't released before that ;)
12:27<orudge>Well, my build environment is now capable of actually compiling it now :p
12:28<orudge>the big thing will be seeing if it'll compile the trunk
12:28<orudge>which, as it has that horrible new makefile system (well, from the point of view that I don't know anything about it :P), may be fun
12:28<orudge>but hey, it'll be worth a try
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12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>i think tron once adapted the old makefile for the new paths
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>to get it working on his BSD
12:30[~]orudge has an openttd.exe
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12:34<orudge>hmm, and a bug or two needs fixing, it does appear
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12:38<orudge>oh, I get it
12:38<orudge>it'll be building with unix.c, not os2.c
12:38<orudge>silly thing
12:39<SmatZ>I just noticed - about the problem with bridges destroying foundations while built
12:39<SmatZ>when a railway is two pieces above, it won't get destroyed, but a road will
12:40<SmatZ>etc... still many problems with it :(
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12:41<SmatZ>sorry :)
12:41<Rubidium>let me guess, you test with a half road tile
12:41<Rubidium>intended behaviour
12:41<SmatZ>okaay :) sorry
12:41<Rubidium> <- read that, it'll explain why
12:42<+glx><orudge> it'll be building with unix.c, not os2.c <-- fix that in source.list
12:42<orudge>that's not in 0.5.0 though, is it?
12:42[~]orudge had to edit Makefile for that
12:43<+glx>I though you were trying trunk :)
12:43<SmatZ>Rubidium: :) poor half road tiles ... sorry for disturbing :-)
12:44<Rubidium>ah, well, almost nobody knows that it happens so I don't blame you ;)
12:44<Chris82> just updated my little IN build, now with 11 patches
12:44<Chris82>I admit I didn't notice it yet either ;)
12:45<Rubidium>Chris82: you know people are going to complain when they cannot load they "old" ChrisIn savegames in newer ones?
12:46<Chris82>Yes I can imagine that, but I just tried a savegame that I created with the first IN and it works with the last one too
12:46<Rubidium>and multiplayer safe is quite a statement
12:46<Chris82>hmm yeah, I actually only wrote that because all patches are set to be server options
12:46[~]dihedral will be right back... switching from os x laptop to windows workstation :-)
12:46<Chris82>for example Air Crash Rates were a single player option in the original patch
12:47<Rubidium>hmm, it won't load trunk savegames
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12:47<Chris82>so multiplayer save primarily means it won't cause desyncs due to wrong patch settings
12:47<Chris82>oh really =O not good
12:47<Chris82>I'll see if I can fix that
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12:48<Rubidium>from savegame version 62 or 63
12:49<Chris82>can I download an older savegame somewhere so I can test it?
12:49<Chris82>the oldest I have is 65 unfortunately
12:50<Rubidium>it a savegame made with trunk HEAD loads and the standard intro game you usually have no problems
12:50<Chris82>it says wrong chunk size on load hmmm
12:52<Tobin>I think you're in for a lot of work...
12:52<Tobin>Not necessarily for this problem but in the long run.
12:53<Eddi|zuHause2>Chris82: check the loading code from the MiniIN, it was pretty good in handling both trunk and older MiniIN
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12:53<Rubidium>old up to a few savegame versions that is ;)
12:54<Eddi|zuHause2>just make sure you are at least 2 versions above trunk
12:54<Chris82>I'll do that
12:54<Chris82>I wasn't aware that trunk savegames don't load, that's not nice indeed
12:54<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, really old MiniIN savegames will not load anymore
12:54<Chris82>let me try some quick fix... brb... maybe I am lucky :D
12:54<Eddi|zuHause2>but there is always an "upgrade path" if you check out some revisions inbetween
12:55<Rubidium>Chris82: you can't fix it in such a way that the current "ChrisIN" savegames are loadable
12:56<Rubidium>and trunk HEAD is loadaed
12:57<Chris82>hmmm is it very problematic to "apply" a new patch to a very old savegame?
12:58<Rubidium>huh? applying patches to savegames?
12:58<Eddi|zuHause2>you can provide an intermediate version that will not load trunk savegames, but will bump the savegame revision of old "ChrisIN" savegames
12:59<Chris82>I mean like loading a game from an unpatched version and when it is loaded the patch from the IN version is applied to the game
12:59<Eddi|zuHause2>and then provide a new "ChrisIN" that loads trunk and savegames from the intermediate version
12:59<dihedral>just came up with a nick for autopilot
12:59<dihedral>command line bitch :-D
12:59<Rubidium>that is fairly simple
13:03[~]Rubidium wonders how long "ChrisIN" will be "developed"
13:04<Chris82>until I can't make it compatible to trunk anymore with my limited C knowledge :D
13:05<Rubidium>C knowledge isn't the problem, knowledge about how the patches work internally is
13:05<Chris82>I will try to make savegames compatible at least for a few versions downwards
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13:07<Chris82>hmm even my initial release doesn't load 0.5.2 games
13:07<Chris82>I have increased savegame version and all patches are CONDVAR or CONDBOOL
13:07<@peter1138>hmm, 1000 ticks is... 30 seconds, right?
13:07<Chris82>shouldn't it work then?
13:07<Chris82>right afaik
13:07<Rubidium>peter1138: +- ~1000 milliseconds
13:08<@peter1138>valgrind's been going for 12 minutes ;p
13:08<Rubidium>oh, but that's horribly slow ;)
13:09<Rubidium>Chris82: well, COND* holds version numbers from which version to add/remove data
13:14<Chris82>hmm hmm savegame compatibility is really an issue
13:14<Chris82>I think I need to take care of that before testing new patches
13:17<Chris82>I think the main problem is that some patches store information in savegames and they can't handle savegames that don't have that information
13:17<Chris82>so the patch would need to be modified so that no information is like starting from scratch when creating a new game
13:18<@peter1138>hmm, 22 minutes :p
13:21<Sacro>nightly timwe
13:26<Chris82>SlGetOffs() {return _sl.offs_base - (_sl.bufe - _sl.bufp) ...can anybody explain what this line basically does?
13:27<Chris82>I mean it's an inline function, but I don't quite get what it really does
13:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: orudge * r10307 /branches/0.5/ (Makefile docs/Readme_OS2.txt driver.c os2.c): [0.5] -Fix: Got 0.5 compiling on OS/2 again
13:27<Chris82>looks like magic yeah :D
13:27<Biff>does anyone use OS/2?
13:27<Sacro>Biff: someone must do...
13:28<orudge>I don't, but I maintain the OS/2 version :p
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>Chris82: in order to handle savegame versions, you should not touch that line
13:29<Eddi|zuHause2>only put the proper version numbers in the CONDVAR entries
13:29<Tobin>There are lots of ATMs that run OS/2. It's nice to know there is a game that can run on them. :)
13:30<Chris82>Eddi: I just added trunk +1 version and changed SAVEGAME_VERSION to trunk +2 versions on the patches that were not already COND
13:30<Chris82>or should I do it differently?
13:30<@peter1138>32 minutes :o
13:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. if you adapt the MiniIN system, put the version "max(version_that_you_introduced_the_patch, current_trunk_version+1)
13:31<orudge>Hmm, so far, this new configure thing in the trunk is working quite happily, now that I have a build environment that actually works
13:31<Noldo>orudge: which configure thing ?
13:32<orudge>the trunk configuration script
13:32<orudge>as opposed to the old 0.5 one
13:35<orudge>Is an 0.5.3 planned for anytime soon do we know?
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>Chris82: saveload.h:41:#define IN_MINIIN_SINCE(version) (((version) > LATEST_TRUNK) ? (version) : LATEST_TRUNK + 1)
13:37<@peter1138>orudge: at some point, yes
13:37<orudge>Well, I figured that :P
13:37[~]orudge is pondering if he should release an 0.5.2+OS/2 fixes, or just wait for 0.5.3
13:38<Eddi|zuHause2>so if the version before you applied a patch is e.g. 65, you write "IN_MINIIN_SINCE(66)"
13:38<@peter1138>wait. nobody uses OS/2 anyway ;p
13:39<eekee>except those that do
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Chris82: e.g. like this: settings.c:1372: SDT_CONDBOOL(Patches, daylength_affect_economy, IN_MINIIN_SINCE(36), SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0, false, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_DAY_LENGTH_ECONOMY, NULL),
13:39<Chris82>Eddi: I see. I am just reading the MiniIN files so I can check how they did it there.
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>write it correctly once, and you will never have to touch the line again
13:40<dihedral>why am i unable to scroll with the arrow keys?
13:40<dihedral>r10295 that is
13:41<stillunknown>orudge: maybe focus your efforts on trunk?
13:41<dihedral>+ i cannot build pre signals??
13:41<orudge>stillunknown: that's what I'm doing now
13:41<orudge>so far it's going well
13:42<orudge>but 0.5 was easier
13:42<orudge>as I knew it was going to work
13:42<orudge>I wasn't sure how the new build system would cope with OS/2
13:42<orudge>but, as I say, so far so good :P
13:42<orudge>it's just tenfold slower at compiling now that it's C++ :P
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause2>i noticed that, too :)
13:42<orudge>and also there are about ten times as many files, or it seems that way
13:43<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, there got quite a few files added... or rather... split up
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13:45<stillunknown>Some stuff got added, not just split up ;-)
13:45<Chris82>does somebody have a link to a 0.5.2 savegame?
13:46<Chris82>preferably without grfs loaded and many vehicles
13:47<dihedral>full of save games
13:47<dihedral>so is FP2 and FP3
13:47<Chris82>cool thx
13:48<dihedral>Rubidium: i dont seem to be able to build presignals in r10295
13:48<dihedral>nor can i scroll using the arrow keys??
13:48<dihedral>am i missing something?
13:48[~]orudge twiddles his thumbs for 20 minutes while this compiles
13:48<orudge>(in a virtual machine too, which makes it even faster)
13:49<stillunknown>dihedral: ctrl+build on an existing signal
13:49<eekee>dihedral: can you choose whether to build semaphore or light signals? ctrl-click when building?
13:49<dihedral>does not work
13:49<dihedral>otherwise i would not have said that :-D
13:49<eekee>mmm, problem with the keyboard bindings then
13:50<dihedral>it worked all the way along ever sinse!
13:50<eekee>er, yeah
13:51<dihedral>workes in r10269
13:51<eekee>does X & L & other keys work?
13:51<dihedral>x workes
13:51<dihedral>have not tried l
13:52<eekee>prolly in the modifier key handling then
13:52<dihedral>l workes
13:52<dihedral>this is ****
13:53[~]eekee svn-s up, gets 10307
13:53<dihedral>and it has not been mapped to the right mouse click
13:53<dihedral>this is just nasy
13:54<eekee>well yeah, we can imagine that
13:56<Rubidium>dihedral: it works for me in r10306
13:59[~]orudge wonders what has happened to FiosItem and FiosAlloc
13:59<orudge>maybe the headers just changed
14:00<orudge>hmm, indeed
14:01[~]eekee builds 10307
14:01<dihedral>yes - that did it - thanks Rubidium
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14:11<Chris82>ok with only daypatch installed I can load a 0.5.2 game now without problems
14:11<Chris82>so I guess I've figured the loading problems
14:11<Chris82>now I just gotta add the patches again one by one and see if problems arise
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14:14<kaan>have fun :D
14:14<Rubidium>Chris82: check trunk head too when you're at it (as that is the one most likely to go wrong)
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14:17<Chris82>kk :)
14:18<Biff>hmm, version mismatch
14:18<Biff>when i installed from the same .deb
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14:21<Biff>what port does openttd use?
14:21<Chris82>the one you specifiy?
14:21<Biff>and ip protocol
14:21<Biff>what if i do not specify one, is there a default, or is it random?
14:21<Rubidium>!openttd ports
14:21<Chris82>I think around 38xx is the default port iirc
14:21<Rubidium>!openttd port
14:21<_42_>Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
14:22<Chris82>oh :)
14:25<Chris82>Rubidium: I have tested an r10307 and 0.5.2 savegame with r10307 + Daypatch now, works both
14:26<Chris82> new patch version here
14:26<Chris82>I will start from scratch adding the other patches for my ChrisIN and test after east patch for savegame compatibility :)
14:26<Chris82>each not east
14:27<Biff>thank you
14:29<Rubidium>+ SDT_CONDVAR(Patches, daylength_multiplier, SLE_UINT8, 69, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0,NC, 1,1,30,1, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_DAY_LENGTH_MULTIPLIER, NULL),
14:29<Rubidium>+ SDT_CONDBOOL(Patches, daylength_correction, 69, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0, false, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_DAY_LENGTH_CORRECTION, NULL),
14:29<Rubidium>those 69s should be 70
14:30<Rubidium>because it should be added from version 70.
14:30<Chris82>oh right :) I intended to add +2 to trunk which is 68
14:30<Chris82>I'll quickly edit that
14:30|-|valhalla1w changed nick to valhallasw
14:31<Rubidium>However, I recommend you not to put hardcoded values in there, but use a macro like IN_MINIIN_SINCE, because those numbers need to be raised once trunk reaches savegame version 70
14:31<Chris82>ok :)
14:32<Rubidium>and after a few savegame bumps in trunk it'll become a lot of work to update those hardcoded numbers; you'll inevitably forget updating them
14:33<Chris82>I totally agree with that =) no doubt I'll miss a few
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14:39<@peter1138>it's hard enough with a single patch ;)
14:40<mikk36>nice @ smooth scrolling
14:40<Rubidium>Chris82: I wouldn't call it beta, because that suggests that those patches are going to be included into trunk "soon"
14:41<Rubidium>and some of those patches are never going to be included anyway (and certainly not in the state they are in now)
14:41<Chris82>oh I'll remove the beta, I just wanted to call it like that until I up a version that loads trunk savegames
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14:42<dihedral>once i was in multiplayer - i cannot build pre signals!!
14:43<stillunknown>Rubidium: do perfect on first sight patches ever come along?
14:43<stillunknown>Longer than a few lines that is.
14:45<dihedral>Rubidium: i have no idea what is going on - if i start a single game it's fine
14:45<dihedral>in multiplayer it aint
14:45<dihedral>after multiplayer it aint fine in single player either
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14:49<Chris82>oh lord sorry to say it but some parts of code in MiniIN look pretty ugly compared to now
14:50<Chris82>if (if ... does that even work?
14:50<dihedral>Rubidium: i have set the emulate right mouse click to true
14:50<dihedral>and neither works in mp
14:51<Rubidium>Chris82: ever looked at some patches you are "packaging"
14:51<Rubidium>dihedral: OSX?
14:52<dihedral>in xp
14:52<dihedral>SirkoZ is also playing and he does not have that issue
14:52<dihedral>but it works in single player
14:52<dihedral>just not after joining a multiplayer
14:52<@peter1138>Chris82: if (if ... ???
14:53<Chris82>well I partially don't understand the code myself, so what I am primarily doing is going through my test scheme when adding a patch
14:53<Chris82>i.e. see if that patch actually does what it should do, if it interfers with other patches etc.
14:53<stillunknown>In an ideal world you should understand what a patch does.
14:53<Chris82>look for obvious bugs and now also check savegame compatibility
14:54<Chris82>yeah but some patches don't do what they are supposed to do :p
14:54<Chris82>peter: There was one line saying something like if (if == something ...I don't think that's working code
14:54<stillunknown>I mean understand the code.
14:55<Chris82>my knowledge of C is not good enough to understand everything, but I learn Java this semester so it helps a little
14:55<stillunknown>C != java and openttd != C
14:55<Rubidium>c(++) -> java is so much easier than java -> c(++)
14:56<@peter1138>knowledge of how things work is what you need, the language is pretty irrelevant. you seem to be doing fine though :)
14:56<Chris82>:( well I will do C in the 4th semester, we only did Haskell (ewww) and Java so far
14:57<Chris82>I learned some C with a book, but it was not much more than printf("Hello World"); *g* :D
14:58<Sacro|Laptop>dihedral: SirkoZ is still around?
14:58<Sacro|Laptop>not seen him in ages
14:58<stillunknown>I hate java as user, so i don't touch it.
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15:00<Chris82>Yay! 4 patches and still loading savegames :D thanks a lot for all your useful tipps guys!
15:00<@Bjarni> <Chris82> I learned some C with a book, but it was not much more than printf("Hello World"); *g* :D <-- that's not even correct. It's printf("Hello World\n"); // you missed the newline :P
15:00<Chris82>hehe ;)
15:00<stillunknown>A newline is not necessary, if you don't want a newline.
15:01<@Bjarni>also you missed teh !
15:01<@Bjarni>and so did I :(
15:01<Chris82>lol :p
15:01<dihedral>Sacro|Laptop: yeah why?
15:01<Sacro|Laptop>dihedral: missed him, and some of his patches
15:01<stillunknown>Rubidium: You study computer sciences?
15:02<Chris82>btw... is there a way to turn off animation in the openttd.cfg?
15:02<Chris82>I am working remotely right now and OpenTTD isn't running that smoothly :D
15:02<kaan>hey bjarni woke up :D
15:02<@Bjarni>dihedral: why do you want to emulate right mouse button in windows. It's only a feature designed for those mac users, who lack a right mouse button
15:02<Rubidium>stillunknown: yes, though I'm not studying much right now ;)
15:02<@Bjarni><kaan> hey bjarni woke up :D <-- you lack. I woke up at 03:00
15:03<dihedral>Bjarni: just trying anything to be able to build pre signals
15:03<@Bjarni>and couldn't sleep :(
15:03<dihedral>deleted my old cfg file - no help
15:03<Eddi|zuHause2>don't insult my beloved haskell! :p
15:03<stillunknown>Rubidium: Not in the middle of a test period?
15:03<kaan>at that time i was still struggeling to fall asleep
15:03<@Bjarni>you didn't sleep before that time???
15:04<Rubidium>Chris82: look at display_opt
15:04<kaan>i didnt sleep untill 04:45
15:04<@Bjarni>well, since I couldn't sleep, I started thinking about C code and figured out how to solve an issue
15:04<@Bjarni>and then I could sleep again
15:04<Rubidium>stillunknown: master's don't have much tests; usually you have to write reports and present it before the "test period" (which is primarily for bachelor students) begins
15:05<@Bjarni>but... the deadline for solving it was last friday :(
15:05<kaan>you know, that one of the first signs of stress?
15:05<@Bjarni>most likely
15:05<stillunknown>Rubidium: I'm still doing my bachelor (not in computer science), so i don't know about that yet ;-)
15:05<@Bjarni>I worked hard on meeting the deadline, yet the code wasn't as ready as I had hoped
15:06<Rubidium>stillunknown: so what are you doing?
15:06<dihedral>Rubidium: try this for me, r10236 - joing a multiplayer game and build pre signals
15:06<kaan>Bjarni: that always suck when you have to do that
15:06<stillunknown>Rubidium: Applied Physics
15:06<@Bjarni>then again, the robot acted correctly to the parts of the track that it was coded to deal with and it did it correctly every time, so the working part was really working
15:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10308 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp rail_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: some "cleanup" chunks from B. N. SmatZ!' work on fixing FS#119.
15:06<@Bjarni>so it's not all bad
15:07<kaan>its not all lost then ;)
15:10<stillunknown>Rubidium: The odds of running into each other are quite small, so don't worry, i rarely visit the ravelijn building.
15:10<blathijs>wth, stillunknown is an UT student? :-)
15:11<Rubidium>stillunknown: I've never been in that building
15:11<blathijs>stillunknown: What year?
15:11<stillunknown>2nd year
15:11<@Bjarni>gee, it turns out that stillunknown is an unknown student at your university... who would have thought that? :)
15:12<blathijs>stillunknown: Know Chris Hellenthal?
15:13<stillunknown>No, but i'm really bad with names.
15:13<@Bjarni>is that why you are still unknown... you forgot your own name or something?
15:14|-|Purno [] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
15:15<stillunknown>blathijs: But i do know one or two people in my class fence (or whatever the english word is).
15:15<stillunknown>And that was the first hit on google.
15:17<stillunknown>And someone did once mention living in Boekelo, but i haven't quite matched the face.
15:17<dihedral>works on my mac!!
15:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10309 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Revert (part of r10308): "fixing" the bounding box for bridge entrances reveals one of the bugs that will be fixed when FS#119 is fixed.
15:18<stillunknown>blathijs: So this an indication how many names i remember.
15:19<@Bjarni><dihedral> works on my mac!! <-- emulating right mouse button should work on mac ;)
15:20<Rubidium>Bjarni: it's a SDL-only patch setting
15:20<@Bjarni>are you sure the cocoa video driver don't look at it?
15:20<blathijs>stillunknown: heh
15:21<blathijs>stillunknown: anyway, he's my girlfriends's brother, fyi :-)
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15:22<Rubidium>Bjarni: when I `grep -R rightclick_emulate .|grep -v svn` no OSX specific stuff shows up
15:23<@Bjarni>_cocoa_video_data.emulating_right_button <-- somehow I find that one mac specific, but right now I can't remember how all the right mouse button events and emulations interact with each other
15:24<@Bjarni>and I'm not in the mood to investigate
15:24<@Bjarni>right now
15:24<@Bjarni>#ifdef _DEBUG
15:24<@Bjarni> uint32 et0, et;
15:24<@Bjarni>#ifdef _DEBUG
15:24<@Bjarni>how about just removing the endif and ifdef? :)
15:25<@Bjarni>well, generally the file could do with a cleanup
15:26<Rubidium>flyspray too ;)
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15:26[~]Rubidium whistles
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15:29<orudge>I have an openttd.exe at last
15:29<+glx>again ?
15:29<orudge>for trunk, this time :p
15:29<orudge>but, hmm
15:29<orudge>where did it go?
15:29<+glx>in bin
15:30<orudge>so it did
15:30<orudge>it works, as well :)
15:30<orudge>OS/2 is finally up-to-date again ;)
15:31<Rubidium>did you need to change a lot?
15:31<@Bjarni>how can OS/2 be up to date?
15:31<orudge>not really, no
15:31<@Bjarni>it's an old OS
15:31<orudge>I just had to get a build environment that didn't choke on the scripts
15:31<@Bjarni>but the port can be up to date :P
15:31<Sacro|Laptop>Bjarni: do you still do OS9?
15:31<orudge>I wanted to try porting it to OS 9 at some point
15:31<Sacro|Laptop>and Windows XP
15:31<@Bjarni>not right now
15:31<orudge>but alas, it didn't quite manage it
15:31<Sacro|Laptop>Windows 9x is out of date
15:31<orudge>also, since I was never retired and do still hack around on things occasionally, am I allowed to unretire myself in the credits? :P
15:32|-|Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
15:32<@Bjarni>did you retire?
15:32<orudge>somebody retired me
15:32<orudge>I was just inactive ;)
15:33|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
15:34<@Bjarni>!openttd commit 7527
15:34<_42_>Commit by Darkvater :: r7527 /trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs) (2006-12-21 14:23:47 UTC)
15:34<_42_>-Update appropiate files with release information for 0.5.0-RC1
15:34<@Bjarni>that is where you retired
15:34<orudge>I found that out a while ago
15:35<@Bjarni>so somebody is the retired Darkvater (who isn't retired in the readme)
15:35<@Bjarni>or did he just take an extremely long break?
15:36<orudge>Je ne sais pas, personally
15:36<@Bjarni>this is an English channel, you know
15:36<@Bjarni>you better translate your last sentence so... Smoovious also understands it :)
15:41[~]Sacro|Laptop consideres practicing his foreign language skills
15:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: orudge * r10310 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: Trunk can now be built on OS/2 :)
15:43<Rubidium>orudge: that looks like some fairly minor changes ;)
15:43<orudge>They are fairly minor, yes
15:43<orudge>I was surprised at how easy it was to get going in the end :p
15:44<Chris82>are there actually new versions of OS/2 as in release in 2006 or so, or are just some pople using very old versions?
15:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: orudge * r10311 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Fix: I'm not retired, just relatively inactive ;)
15:44<orudge>eComStation is still under development
15:44<orudge>(a version of OS/2)
15:45<orudge>and most modern apps can be run under OS/2
15:45<Rubidium>orudge: means we did fairly well on the makefile rewrite
15:45<orudge>Yes, indeed, Rubidium :)
15:46<Rubidium>ooh, more to backport to 0.5 ;)
15:46<orudge>Ah, heh
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15:46<Chris82>is it actually a good idea to make SAVEGAME_VERSION = 70; something like SAVEGAME_VERSION = (Trunk + 2) like IS_CHRISIN_(70)
15:46<Chris82>then I don't need to change the savegame version as well, only think is CURRENT_TRUNK then
15:48|-|lolman [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:48<Rubidium>Chris82: no
15:48|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
15:48<Rubidium>because when you increment SAVEGAME_VERSION, your old savegames wouldn't load anymore
15:49<@Bjarni>* Sacro|Laptop consideres practicing his foreign language skills <-- learn Chinese. That's the language that most people know, so knowing English and Chinese will make you able to speak with most people
15:49<Sacro|Laptop>ooh thats a fair point
15:49<Sacro|Laptop>i need to go to the chinese supermarket this week
15:50|-|McHawk [] has joined #openttd
15:50<@Bjarni>speaking of languages... I installed BVE and decided to install more rail lines (the default one is just one). I found some Japanese site with rail lines and trains and used babelfish to read it
15:51<Sacro|Laptop>BVE is cool
15:51<@Bjarni>mostly it went well, except for one wtf
15:51<@Bjarni>"The capital 阪"... now what is this? :)
15:52<@Bjarni>took me a moment to figure out
15:52<kaan>night all :)
15:52<@Bjarni>it's "京阪" in Japanese and that means Keihan, which is the name of the Osaka-Kyoto-Otsu line
15:53<Rubidium>Bjarni: well, Kyoto was once the capital of Japan
15:53<@Bjarni>I think you have to know that in order to read it... babelfish didn't know that
15:54<@Bjarni>Rubidium: I know and the name means big capital
15:54<@Bjarni>kyo = capital
15:54<@Bjarni>it's the same with Tokyo (eastern capital)
15:55<@Bjarni>Kyoto was once called the western capital (to tell it apart from Tokyo)
15:55<Sacro|Laptop>Kyoto, the dyslexic mansTtokyo
15:55<@Bjarni>but I forgot how to say west in Japanese, so I can't tell you that name :P
15:56<@Bjarni>wtf is mansTtokyo supposed to mean?
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15:56<Rubidium>that Sacro|Laptop is drunk
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15:56<Eddi|zuHause2>that Sacro|Laptop is dyslexic :p
15:56<Sacro|Laptop>i tried to capitalise the t
15:56<Sacro|Laptop>and ended up changing the space
15:56<@Bjarni>dyslexia... how does that act up in Asian languages? I mean, if they mistype one char, then they write the wrong word
15:57<Eddi|zuHause2>you failed :p
15:57<Eddi|zuHause2>leave the capitalisation to the people who can handle it :)
15:57<Sacro|Laptop>what? like the Germans?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause2>especially if you miscapitalise a capital :p
15:58<@Bjarni>lONdon <-- like that?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah... something like that :p
16:00<@Bjarni><Sacro|Laptop> BVE is cool <-- yeah, but it turned out that the route Keihan Keisin is poorly done.... it's more or less just the tracks and the line is inside towns most of the way, but the buildings were missing
16:00<Sacro|Laptop>someone was doing a Hull line
16:00<Sacro|Laptop>but it died :(
16:01<UnderBuilder>I do not understand what cargo packets will do
16:01<@peter1138>they keep track of cargo sources and times properly
16:02<izhirahider>I wish cargo indicators would stack up instead of being overwritten, like what happens with OS X Leopard stacks :)
16:02<izhirahider>specially with boats
16:02<@Bjarni> <-- this part of the line looked somewhat odd with only the tracks, the catenary and the road and nothing else
16:03|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:03<@Bjarni>however it felt kind of cool with the automated next station recordings
16:04<UnderBuilder>so... cargo packets will be used for something like cargo destinations right?
16:04<Phazorx>peter1138: sorry i got busy thre
16:04<Phazorx>any Qs about these fancy ukrs trains?
16:05<@Bjarni><SacroLaptop> but it died :( <-- the project or the person doing it?
16:05<@Bjarni>the BeOS port of some lib got out of date when the porter ended up in the hospital after a shark attack
16:05<@Bjarni>so it happens once in a while
16:06|-|Gorre [] has quit []
16:06<@Bjarni>After the thawing, please move 221 folders to the Train folder of BVE. <--- LOL. Babelfish did a nice translation again :D
16:07<@Bjarni>it should be "the 221 folder" (the folder is named 221)
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2><UnderBuilder> so... cargo packets will be used for something like cargo destinations right? <- currently, more like cargo origins
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have transfer, and mix cargo from station A and cargo from station B, you can keep them apart now
16:09<Eddi|zuHause2>instead of forgetting either station A or station B, because you can only remember one station
16:10|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:10<Eddi|zuHause2>next step could be passenger destinations, but it is probably a long way to go
16:11<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think cargo destinations (for anything other than mail) make a lot of sense
16:11<Rubidium>for goods it will ;)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause2>possibly for goods and food... but cargo should be distributed by a supply&demand scheme, not by destinations
16:14<Eddi|zuHause2>anything that is not accepted by houses should not be subject to specific destinations, imho
16:14<Rubidium>ah well, as long as it's selectable whether you want to use * destinations ;)
16:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it should be a difficulty option, imho
16:15<Smoovious><Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think cargo destinations (for anything other than mail) make a lot of sense <--- why would it make sense for mail and not other cargo...
16:15|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:15<Eddi|zuHause2>and i think celestar intended something like that with the gamebalance branch...
16:16<Eddi|zuHause2>Smoovious: ever sent a letter without target address?
16:16|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit []
16:16<Smoovious>ever sent raw materials to nowhere in particular?
16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>on the other hand, ever bought an industrial sized amount of coal? (e.g. 200 wagons full?)
16:17<Smoovious>not peronally... but I have placed the order before
16:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you do not care if one wagon or the other wagon arrives
16:18<Smoovious>um, yeah ya do
16:18<Smoovious>if ya didn't care, why bother placing t he o rder
16:18|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:19<Eddi|zuHause2>you don't go around the coal store and say "i want exactly that piece of coal"
16:19<Smoovious>you have coal stores there?
16:19<Smoovious>wow... here, ya have to order it in bulk
16:19<Eddi|zuHause2>you see :)
16:20<Smoovious>yes, I do... and when it is ordered, it is extremely important it gets to the rightr destination...
16:20<Smoovious>power plants are very picky about that
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i still think it would not be good for the game...
16:21<UnderBuilder>a good thing that can be done with newindustries (when is ready :)) is workforce :)
16:21<Smoovious>can't pick and choose which will have destinations and which won't... it is unfair on a basic level
16:22<Smoovious>plus, just cuz you don't see t he need, doesn't mean another player can't...
16:22<Eddi|zuHause2>Smoovious: the point is, there may be like 10.000 houses, but only 3 power stations... it's a whole different level
16:23<Smoovious>most cargo woulldn't need a destination... b ut from time to time, an industry that hasn't h ad a delivery in a l ong time, could place an order...
16:23<Smoovious>the point is, that destinations is useful for all cargo types... not just ones going to a city
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>the trick there would be a maximum acceptance, and to balance production and demand, so you have to deliver to all 3 power stations
16:24<UnderBuilder>but different from the one of the antichaos patch
16:24<Smoovious>why, for example, is a steel mill, any less worthy of being used as a destination, than city tiles?
16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>UnderBuilder: this is totally unrelated to newindustries
16:24<Smoovious>it doesn't have to be a full balancing
16:25<Smoovious>and it doesn't have to be all the time either
16:26<Smoovious>take subsidies for instance... they can be made so in order to get the subsidy, you have to take X tons from one place to another... you pick up that cargo earmarked for the subsidy...
16:26<Smoovious>say the train never makes it... it crashes... no subsidy
16:26<Smoovious>no matter how many other trainloads you take... since that particular load, was what the subsidy was going to be awarded for
16:26<UnderBuilder>if you transport passengers to a industry it produces extra cargo instead of producing nothing
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16:27<Smoovious>UnderBuilder... I dunno what kind of grf you're using where cargo is made out of people, but perhaps you could use a therapist?
16:27<Rubidium>Smoovious: that is going to be too cumbersome in large networks
16:27<@peter1138>steel mill accepts passengers :)
16:28<@peter1138>also ukrs lets you put tourists in freight wagons, heh
16:28<UnderBuilder>no... workforce
16:28<Smoovious>perhaps, but if it i s that c umbersome, it would allso be cumbersome for town-town runs too
16:28<UnderBuilder>see antichaos patch
16:29<Eddi|zuHause2>peter1138: you mean like "holocauster tycoon"? ;p
16:29<Smoovious>just... simpler to make it generic for any cargo type than to code it only for specific ones... then you have additional cargo types offered by GRF's... those should be able to take advantage of the feature too
16:29<Rubidium>Smoovious: for town-town networks you can build a few trains and it'll run with transfers, when you are talking about subsidies you have to actively add some trains to that route, or you are already running the route, which means the subsidy isn't necessary
16:29<Smoovious>just limiting it that way seems unnecessariliy arbitrary
16:30<Smoovious>subsidies still come up for existing runs
16:30<Smoovious>you can make feeder networks for cargo too
16:32<Eddi|zuHause2>Smoovious: but not efficiently unless you have automatic shunting, and wagons picking a route according to their cargo
16:32<Eddi|zuHause2>it requires more logistics than the game offers
16:33<Smoovious>the specific uses involved is really a different argument... I'm talking about having the capability
16:33<Smoovious>flexibility is the goal
16:33<Smoovious>not "it isn't useful to me"
16:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i never used the word "useful"
16:35<Smoovious>no, but you used a whole bunch of others that paraphrased meant the same thing :P
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16:45<dihedral>you guys remember the addition to the output of the players command?
16:46<Rubidium>which one?
16:46<dihedral>the last thing stating (un)protected
16:46<dihedral>i am getting the output (null)protected
16:47<Rubidium>in what version?
16:48<dihedral>it's a password protected game
16:48<Rubidium>something is horribly wrong with your computer
16:48<dihedral>it's the output from the server
16:48<Rubidium>StrEmpty(npi->password) ? "un" : "" <- that cannot be "(null)"
16:49<@peter1138>what's the rest of the line?
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16:49<dihedral>it should not print bracets either
16:49<Rubidium>hmm, but it does
16:50<dihedral>yes, it does
16:50<@peter1138>yes, that's what happens when it prints a null as a string
16:50<@peter1138>but what's the rest of the line?
16:50<dihedral>+ in OpenTTDLib it looks like the companies dont have a passwd set
16:51<dihedral>the last server ( / Fair Play Nightly)
16:51<Rubidium>peter1138: trouble with printf-ing 64 bits variables
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16:52<SirkoZ>sacro you here?
16:52<Sacro>SirkoZ: indeed i am
16:52<@peter1138>Rubidium: i was getting to that, but it seems dihedral is ignoring me, so what do i care
16:52<dihedral>though OpenTTDLib get's it right when the game is not passworded
16:53<dihedral>peter1138: sorry
16:53<SirkoZ>Sacro: well - if you wanted the patches so much why no PM on the Forum?
16:53<SirkoZ>I could have easily updated them...
16:53<dihedral>#:2(Blue) Company Name: 'dihedral Transport' Year Founded: 1946 Money: 411237 Loan: 0 Value: 650000 (T:122496, R:0, P:7, S:0) (null)protected
16:53<SirkoZ>BTW - We could run them on the Dihedral's new nightly server
16:53<Sacro>SirkoZ: because i have the knowledge to fiddle with patches myself :p
16:53<dihedral>^^ full line of output
16:54<SirkoZ>then fiddle away
16:54<@peter1138>you have 122496 trains :D
16:54<@peter1138>Rubidium: yup :)
16:54<SirkoZ>since being here is pointless - smell you all later
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16:55<dihedral>is it normal that a protected game will also not send details if a company is password protected in the DETAIL_INFO packet?
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16:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10312 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix (r10210): the 64 values in the 'players' console command were not printed properly; they did even "overflow" into the next to-be-printed values.
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17:00<Rubidium>dihedral: it just shows that information when I query for it in the "multiplayer game lobby"
17:00<dihedral>i know - for me too
17:00<dihedral>but i can see that data if i query unprotected game servers
17:01<Rubidium>what's the problem about that?
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17:02<dihedral>check the example2.php page
17:03<dihedral>the last 2 servers
17:03<dihedral>it seems odd
17:03<dihedral>#openttdcoop shows that the company is protected
17:03<dihedral>and the game is too
17:03<dihedral>my game does not show that data!
17:04|-|eekee [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:08<Rubidium>dihedral: aren't you interpreting the wrong variable?
17:08<Phazorx>ughm... what was make shortcut for debugging?
17:08<Phazorx>make gdb?
17:08<Rubidium>make run-gdb iirc
17:09<Phazorx>yup, thanks
17:09<Rubidium>make run-gdb OPENTTD_ARGS="-g mysave.sav"
17:09<Phazorx>need net game
17:09<dihedral>Rubidium: why the wrong variable?
17:09<dihedral>it seems to work everywhere else
17:09<Phazorx>but it segfault again
17:09<Phazorx>glx: i get same problem with 295 as i did with 170
17:09<Phazorx>debuging version can not use net
17:10<Rubidium>dihedral: I don't know
17:10<Rubidium>it's just that the stuff in trunk seems to work ok
17:13<Rubidium>dihedral: for the fun of it
17:13<Rubidium>are the two companies on FP nightly passworded?
17:13<Rubidium>and for FP 1, how man are passworded there?
17:14<dihedral>the one company is mine - it is passworded
17:15<dihedral>the other data i get back is correct
17:15<Rubidium>ok, so trunk is wrong, 0.5.2 is right
17:16<dihedral>how do i turn off a server password with ="" or some special char?
17:16<dihedral>running game
17:16|-|Guest187 changed nick to Caemyr]
17:17<skidd13>!openttd commit 10268
17:17<_42_>Commit by rubidium :: r10268 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2007-06-22 17:33:13 UTC)
17:17<_42_>-Fix: some old savegames could have the wrong bits unset (follow up of r10147)
17:17<dihedral>Rubidium: could it be the same issue with with this (null)protected stuff?
17:18<dihedral>and to be honest - i dont think it's a trunk error
17:18<dihedral>as i am also querying the other r10306 game
17:18|-|Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:18<dihedral>and there aint an issue there
17:18<Rubidium>dihedral: that issue is totally not related to the (null) protected stuff
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17:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10313 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp: -Fix (r8546): value for password "protected" was sent toggled for UDP packets, i.e. unpassworded companies showed up passworded and vice versa.
17:19<Rubidium>dihedral: if you're querying trunk, it was always the wrong way around
17:19<dihedral>Rubidium: look at the last 2 games in
17:20<Rubidium>yes, they should've used a more recent version of trunk ;)
17:21<dihedral>it's the latest nightly
17:22<@peter1138>latest nightly != most recent version of trunk
17:22<Rubidium>as I said, you need a more recent version of trunk
17:23<dihedral>yeah - i know that
17:23<dihedral>i was just refering to the fact that they were the latest nightly
17:23<dihedral>nothing else
17:24<dihedral>well - i shall try it tomorrow then
17:24|-|thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:24<dihedral>time for bed
17:24<dihedral>... time - 2 hours = time for bed :-P
17:24<dihedral>g'night ladies
17:25<dihedral>and thanks for all the fish :-P
17:25|-|dihedral [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]]
17:25<Rubidium>I didn't even give him fish ;)
17:25<@Bjarni><dihedral> g'night ladies <-- that's like greeting all the billionaires in here
17:26<@peter1138>hmm, yes, 23:23
17:28<Sacro>some of us aren't even dressed yet
17:29<Sacro>i should get dressed really
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17:31|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
17:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10314 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Refer to vehicle names by index
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17:50<skidd13>what exactly does make depend?
17:51|-|elmex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2>skidd13: it calculates which files might be affected by a change in another file
17:53<Eddi|zuHause2>e.g if you modify header.h, and file1.c includes it, and file2.c does not, file1 has to be recompiled, and file2 not
17:53<skidd13>Is it a function that a use might call or only called within the default compilation process
17:53<skidd13>use -> user
17:55|-|geoff_k [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:55<Eddi|zuHause2>you can probably call it manually, but it usually does not make a lot of sense...
17:56|-|nairan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:59<skidd13>I wrote make help and was not sure to add make depend.. :)
18:00<skidd13>Any comments from a dev? ->
18:02|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:02<@Bjarni>don't add > in front of the link
18:02<@Bjarni>now I can't click it :p
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>it works here :)
18:03|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:05<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause2: Do you know Thomas Ochs?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think so...
18:06<Rubidium>+ @echo " bundle => create all installation bundles"
18:06<Rubidium>it doesn't create all installation bundles
18:06<Rubidium>it creates the base bundle that is compressed by the bundle_*
18:08|-|XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.]
18:08<Rubidium>gernerated <- typo
18:09<Eddi|zuHause2>skidd13: who is that supposed to be?
18:10<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause2: I know someone who has the same real name as you.
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause2>only few people that know me in real life actually know my real name :)
18:12<skidd13>IIRC he's from Wabern.
18:12<Eddi|zuHause2>that is definitely not me :)
18:13<skidd13>I ment the name that is given by IRC info.
18:13<Eddi|zuHause2>there's probably only a hand full of people that know my full name
18:13<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, that is my name :)
18:14<ln->hand full and not handful?
18:14<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: probably a mistranslation
18:17<ln->ok proceed
18:17<ln->though handful = hand voll
18:19<skidd13>Need a bit sleep... GN
18:19<ln->bit sleep, how nerdish
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>after all those rules changing, i don't even know anymore if it's supposed to be written divided or together...
18:22<ln->what happened with the case where some man sued the state of germany because of those new rules?
18:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i have no idea
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18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, the state of germany is not the only one involved with the spelling reform
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18:38<ln->(don't worry, it's not an accident or anything like that in the second photo.)
18:39<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd have guessed it's some kind of show
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18:40<ln->yes it is.
18:41<ln->both photos are taken at midnight, btw.
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18:42<Eddi|zuHause2>you have strange midnight up there :p
18:43<ln->after they saw the dutch F-16 shooting flares in last year's show, the finnish air force figured out those look quite cool as a part of a show.
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21:07<Phazorx>how can i get gdb'ed version to work with network under windows?
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23:02<mikk36>i've got a bug :D
23:02<mikk36>with 10295
23:02<mikk36>after downloading the 1341KB map, openttd just crashes
23:03<Jerub>that's the kind of bug we all just love.
23:03<mikk36>and there are players inside playing
23:03<mikk36>the connection is 2Mbps, so not the slowest
23:03<mikk36>not overstressed
23:03<mikk36>ping to the server is ~10ms
23:04<mikk36>pause on join is enabled as default
23:06<mikk36>no grf's are used
23:06<mikk36>i will try again from my workplace, but will not place any hopes
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23:35|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
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23:39<Rubidium>mikk36: there should be a network_client.tmp or something similar in your save/autosave directory
23:40<Rubidium>that might be used to reproduce your crash
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10315 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-25 06:40:44
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 5 fixed by WhiteRabbit (5)
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 11 fixed by t2t2 (11)
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 6 fixed, 2 changed by miham (8)
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
23:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: japanese - 5 fixed by ickoonite (5)
23:52<Phazorx>how can i get gdb'ed version to work with network under windows?
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23:53<Rubidium>no idea, it "just works" under linux
23:55<Phazorx>Rubidium: any release i tried compiling with debug crashes on nay network related
23:55<Rubidium>sounds like a broken gdb or gcc creating broken debug binaries to me
23:56<Phazorx>glx has same problem
23:57<Phazorx>and i have rpetty much most recent vanila mingw/msys
23:57|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
23:57<Phazorx>hmm... i should try to compile soemtihng esle simple and see if that crashes to
23:59<Phazorx>is there something simiar to netcat, udp based
23:59<Phazorx>which i can use as a test case
---Logclosed Mon Jun 25 00:00:23 2007