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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-25

---Logopened Mon Jun 25 00:00:23 2007
---Daychanged Mon Jun 25 2007
00:00<Rubidium>a well, it's not OTTD's fault in general, maybe something todo with Windows and OTTD
00:00<Rubidium>as it works for me when joining a server
00:00<Phazorx>that's can be proven if a testcase fails as well
00:01<Rubidium>anyhow, I'm gone
00:02<Phazorx>night
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01:26<mikk36>uhm, Rubidium
01:26<mikk36>there is NO save folder :/
01:26<mikk36>although, autosave was on
01:26<mikk36>for some reason, i don't see my conf either
01:27<@peter1138>~/.openttd
01:27<mikk36>windows
01:27<@peter1138>or My Documents\OpenTTD heh
01:27<mikk36>D:\Games\OpenTTD-r10295
01:27<mikk36>oh, it's moved ?
01:27<mikk36>aha
01:27<mikk36>and you want that tmp file ?
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01:29<mikk36>uploading to my server
01:32<mikk36>http://mikk36.eu/web/random_shit/network_client.tmp
01:33<@peter1138>$ bin/openttd
01:33<@peter1138>Segmentation fault (core dumped)
01:33<@peter1138>:D
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01:34<mikk36>and ?
01:34<mikk36>:D
01:37<@peter1138>i'll leave this one to rubidium
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01:55<Ailure>would be fun
01:56<Ailure>if we could have a donut-shaped world
01:56<Phazorx>where is smooth economy behavior in cide?
01:56<Phazorx>industry_cmd?
01:56<Ailure>like in freeciv
01:56<Ailure>or earthshaped too :p
01:56<Phazorx>Ailure: i ithnk plane will do
01:57<Ailure>well
01:57<Ailure>I think it would make some big maps more intresting
01:57<Ailure>you can have a railway line going around the earth
01:58<Ailure>in TT, I get the illusion of being stuck on a island
01:58<Ailure>isolated rest from the world
01:58<Ailure>instead of it being it's own world
01:59<hylje>Star Trek: the Animation. One season of lol, wut? ...IN SPACE!
01:59<Phazorx>so if going through egdes woud make train apper on over side it would be better ?
02:00<hylje>i had a crazy idea about a dynamic persistent world
02:00<hylje>not quite a round world but expanding over time
02:00<Phazorx>very realistic :)
02:00<hylje>yes
02:00<hylje>totally
02:00<Phazorx>heh
02:01<Phazorx>where's the damn smooth economy?
02:01<hylje>i dunno
02:01<hylje>grep economy openttd.cfg
02:02<Phazorx>i need the code not patch
02:05<hylje>o
02:06<Phazorx>ah... found it
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02:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10316 /trunk/src/ (group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp lang/english.txt strings.cpp): -Codechange: (consistently) use index to refer to group names. Also the group string_id is irrelevant unless it is a custom name, so don't 'waste' a savegame string id.
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02:50<mikk36>and the guys are still in and playing the game :P
02:51<mikk36>world size has rose from 1300KB at 07:30am to 1900KB 10:50am :P
02:51<mikk36>damn :P
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02:53<Ailure>[08:56] <Phazorx> so if going through egdes woud make train apper on over side it would be better ?
02:53<Ailure>no no no
02:54<Ailure>although that's probably what makes it tricky to implement :p
02:54<Ailure>the map would loop in all directions or something
02:55<Ailure>although that can get a bit confusing :p
02:58<Phazorx>isnt that what i just said?
02:58<Ailure>hmmm
02:59<Ailure>I'm tired
02:59<Ailure>:p
02:59<Ailure>[08:57] <hylje> i had a crazy idea about a dynamic persistent world
02:59<Ailure>heh
02:59<hylje>overlapping
02:59<hylje>heh
03:00<Ailure>I played with the idea of servers connecting to each and could send trains to each other
03:00<hylje>yes
03:00<hylje>net junctions in many senses
03:00<Ailure>that would be potentiionally intresting
03:00<Ailure>but also have it's problems :p
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03:02<Ailure>what should the game do when a server goes down
03:02<@peter1138>disconnect, oddly enough
03:02<Ailure>send the trains into a void?
03:02<Ailure>:D
03:12<hylje>well theres redundancy
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03:12<dihedral>mornin'
03:13<hylje>and if the redundant world parts still go down
03:13<hylje>it enters that void and is restored later
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03:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10317 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#786]: acceleration not calculated properly when a train goes up a hill between tunnels.
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03:39<Ailure>...wut?
03:39<Ailure>oh wait
03:39<hylje>lol, wut? .. ON RAILS!!
03:41<Ailure>ah
03:41<Ailure>right
03:41<Ailure>I see the bug now
03:42<Ailure>the train dosen't slow down, when it should be
03:48<@peter1138>old old bug, that
03:50<Smoky555>hi ! How i can place different signal type on one tile? Is it possible?
03:50<Rubidium>Smoky555: use a (fairly) recent nightly
03:51<Smoky555>Rubidium : but in last SVN?
03:52<Ailure>ooh
03:52<Ailure>it's actually possible now?
03:52<Ailure>when did that happen
03:53<Ailure>just tried it out
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03:57<Ailure>most of the time, it was more of a cosmetically annoyance than gameplay :p
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04:03<dihedral>Rubidium: remember the smooth_economy patch i mentioned yesterday?
04:03<dihedral>apparently it does not work for producing industries doing 24-30 T
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04:06<Rubidium>I don't remember that
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10318 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-25 11:14:04
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 7 fixed by thetitan (7)
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed, 2 changed by arnaullv (4)
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 15 fixed, 5 changed by ThomasA (20)
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 8 fixed, 39 changed by Zr40 (45), webfreakz (2)
04:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 2 fixed, 2 changed by t2t2 (4)
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04:30<Rubidium>mikk36: that savegame of yours is basically broken by a bug in trunk; trunk can store "only" 65535 references to cargopackets and you've got like 90000 cargopackets in the savegame, which means it wraps around at 65536 and that makes it use other packets which makes lots of things go haywire.
04:30<mikk36>oh, nice :P
04:30<Rubidium>What I can do is remove *all* cargopackets from the game so you can continue it, or you have to use an older savegame
04:30<mikk36>nah it's opk
04:30<mikk36>ok
04:30<mikk36>the guys are still in and playing it
04:30<Rubidium>anyhow, a fix will be coming
04:30<mikk36>as long as they don't drop out, they're fine
04:30<Rubidium>mikk36: exactly ;)
04:30<mikk36>although the cpu usage is high as hell
04:31<mikk36>1.6Ghz removing all cargopackets just removes all waiting cargo and cargo on the move ?
04:31<Rubidium>mikk36: that's because there is a custom made leak checker for cargo packets running every tick
04:32<mikk36>1.6Ghz was about the cpu running it
04:32<mikk36>P4
04:32<Rubidium>but that will be removed in a while
04:32<mikk36>:)
04:32<dihedral>Rubidium: r10290
04:34<Rubidium>what's the problem with that?
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04:36<@peter1138>it's a random revision number :D
04:37<Rubidium>peter1138: well, it did fix smooth economy with low productions
04:37<dihedral>do productions at 24/30 T
04:37<dihedral>so basically below 32
04:38<dihedral>peter1138: and why would i post a random revision number?
04:38<@peter1138>"do productions at 24/30 T" does not parse
04:38<dihedral>just for the sake of not making any sense
04:38<@peter1138>dihedral: well, ok, 30 minutes ago it would've made sense ;)
04:39<dihedral>just thought i'd pass it on :-)
04:39<dihedral>personally i ignore industies that are that low
04:40<dihedral>but it's a shame if they dont recover
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04:55<Eddi|zuHause3>*mental note* simultaneously doing video encoding and playing openttd will not work...
04:55<ln->why's that?
04:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i feel like i am back on my 386 ;)
04:56<@peter1138>dual core cpu required
04:58<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but i am fresh out of those :p
04:58<@peter1138>quad core then? :D
04:58<dihedral>na - just a second computer and a kvm
04:58<eekee>play agame with a tiny map. I was doing that yesterday while compiling, iirc
04:59<dihedral>64x64 is amazingly funny
04:59<Eddi|zuHause3>and by my luck, the video encoding software is multithreaded, to fill out all cores ;)
04:59<dihedral>renice it :-P
04:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i actually tried to play on my daylength x32 game...
04:59<eekee>64x64 is cute
05:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i believe it's 1024x1024
05:00<dihedral>renice -20 -p `pidof openttd`
05:00<@peter1138>128x128 gives you a nice tricky game
05:00<@peter1138>enough to link up but you can't run long lines for mega-profi
05:00<@peter1138>+t
05:00<dihedral>64x64 map: and try not to get the local auth pissed :-P
05:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't really care about profit...
05:01<@peter1138>and you have to be frugal with the amount of vehicles else you get constant lockups
05:01<eekee>I'm playing 1 such game with freight um.. weight multiplication up at 15
05:01<dihedral>wow
05:02<eekee>hilly too, it's interesting. Not too hard, maybe I shoul try it with the UKRS lol
05:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm running dual BR 38 with 30 ore wagons
05:02<eekee>got another such game with tons of coal on a loop rail around the town
05:02<eekee>^^'
05:04<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, and i do daily autosave :p
05:04<@peter1138>daily? :o
05:05<Eddi|zuHause3>well, yes, with x32 daylength, that is one original month :p
05:05<@peter1138>ah
05:06<Eddi|zuHause3>keeping it monthly wasn't exactly often :p
05:07<Eddi|zuHause3>this is so funny, if i unpause the game, it runs smoothly for a few seconds, and then it slows down again :)
05:08<eekee>heh
05:10<eekee>peter1138: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ethan.grammatikidis/misc-pics/openttd/Tatminster%20Transport,%203rd%20Feb%202037.png Kiloton of coal per month, no lockups
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05:13<Eddi|zuHause3>could it be that the trams have a wrong offset?
05:13<eekee>offset?
05:13<Rubidium>ofcourse it could be
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05:14<Rubidium>but most likely a problem with the newgrf
05:14<Rubidium>let me guess, the "Hiro tram" looks wrong?
05:16<eekee>Hiro Tram?
05:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know what tram it is... i only see the picture above
05:16<Eddi|zuHause3>and the tram looks like it is going next to the rails, not on the rails
05:16<Rubidium>is it a green tram?
05:17<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah...
05:17<eekee>Oh, the trams in that are all Serbian, All the passenger ones are the "Be" type, the frieght trams are the "Be" cloned into a new grk & made refittable
05:17<eekee>yeah
05:17<Rubidium>then it's most likely the hiro tram
05:17<eekee>I see what you mean
05:17<Eddi|zuHause3>if i had to guess, the offset was "optimised" for right traffic side, and it looks odd with left (or "wrong" :p) traffic side
05:17<Rubidium>that tram's first part's sprite is 7/8th of a normal tram, but the newgrf doesn't say so
05:18<@peter1138>eekee: ah, yes, i've not played a small game since the new bridges...
05:18<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause3: no, the offset is just wrong
05:18<@peter1138>uk tram set will have correct offsets :D
05:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10319 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r10266): the limit of 65535 references was not enough for cargo packets. Increase this limit to approximately 2^32, which noone should ever be able to reach on any normal system ;)
05:19[~]peter1138 kicks CIA-1 for being so slow
05:19<eekee>peter1138: they are convenient, but I think that layout would work with the old bridges
05:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10320 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_cmd.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix [FS#278]: one could only build a limited number of stations before one had to rename them.
05:23<eekee>oh there would be a bit of trouble down by the oil refinery. Very slow trains under that bridge, & there used to be a slow oil train sharing the same tracks, I would have had some trouble there
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05:24<Eddi|zuHause3>i am not starting a new game until PBS is implemented :p
05:26<dihedral>lol
05:26<eekee>heh
05:27<eekee>I used timetabling a bit on a recent game. Was confusing, but I think it helped
05:27<dihedral>does setting the day length influence the speed of vehicles?
05:27<Gekkko`>how does time tables work?
05:28|-|Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd
05:29<eekee>Gekkko`: with cogs & steam clocks, for all I understand it
05:29<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: no, it just changes the amount of ticks until the day ends
05:29<mikegrb>all the guys put their watch on a table and then one by one the girls pick up a random watch... oh wait that is something else
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05:30<eekee>hehe!
05:30<Eddi|zuHause3>along with some controversial "fixes" what should be calculated per tick and what should be calculated per day
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05:31<mikegrb>elmex's client has comitment issues
05:33<Gekkko`>eekee: I mean, on OTTD what does it prove
05:33[~]eekee gives a big shrug, saying "I'unno!"
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05:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10321 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: refer to sign text by index
05:41<Eddi|zuHause3>what is all that indexing about?
05:41<@peter1138>:D
05:42|-|Nickman [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
05:42<@peter1138>it's leading up to replacing the custom name array
05:42<@peter1138>== not limited to 32 chars each and not limited to 512 names
05:42<Eddi|zuHause3>ah...
05:43<hylje>quest to custom name array!
05:43<@peter1138>which is good for furriners (multibyte unicode sequences) and large games/scenarios
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05:45<@peter1138>it's a little bit more useful than my opengl blitter ;)
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05:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10322 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the timetable window smaller by default so it doesn't take up so much space on small resolutions.
05:50<dihedral>just out of curiosity
05:50<dihedral>why is the svn repository not served over dav_svn? and apache?
05:51<eekee>I think that's a bit of a pain to set up
05:51<dihedral>lol - no it aint!!
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05:52<ln->Maedhros: if you made it narrower, how will that affect on (translated) texts fitting in the buttons?
05:52<Smoky555>grrrr... WT2 make big boom on {SIGN} phrase ... and big error ... :\
05:52<dihedral>i would probably have to ask TrueBrain?
05:53<@peter1138>Smoky555, cool :)
05:53<@peter1138>but we'll have to wait for MiHaMiX to fix it
05:54<Rubidium>and MiHaMiX will be away for the day
05:54<Smoky555>peter1138 : i can't translate this phrases into russian :( yes, i know about MiHaMiX
05:54<Maedhros>ln-: i didn't. i just reduced the height of it
05:54<@peter1138>ln-: but if he did, over long strings will fall out...
05:55<ln->indeed
05:55<@peter1138>clearly we need the magic cpp_gui to fix it ;)
06:01<eekee>nuuuuuh! Can't build heliports
06:01<eekee>local authority refuses another airport...
06:01<@peter1138>only 2 airports allowed per town
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06:01<eekee>but they're heliports, it's ridiculous that they be limited in the same way
06:02[~]dihedral agrees
06:02<@peter1138>there's "noise level" patch that works quite nicely iirc
06:02<eekee>Oh?
06:02<@peter1138>each airport has a noise value and you can have up a certain limit per town
06:03<eekee>ahh
06:03<@peter1138>so that's 2 large airports or 4 small, or somesuch
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06:03<dihedral>could someone do me a favour and join to a game , create a company and set a pass?
06:03<eekee>how would I get hold of it?
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06:04<@peter1138>pass
06:04<eekee>heh :)
06:04<@peter1138>but it's out there somewhere
06:04<eekee>right
06:04<@peter1138>Belugas, ping? :o
06:04<eekee>incidentally, can you reshape airports in grf? I'm thinking of autogyros with their short runways...
06:05<dihedral>eekee: would you like to give me a helping hand?
06:06<eekee>might as well
06:06<Vikthor>eekee: Pasky made once such patch http://pasky.or.cz/~pasky/dev/openttd/airports.patch but I am afraid it is outdated and it wont probably apply
06:06<dihedral>whats the latest revision of trunk you have compiled?
06:06<eekee>Vikthor: thanks
06:06[~]eekee grabs anyway
06:07<eekee>dihedral: what server?
06:07<dihedral>openttd.dihedral.de:27030
06:07<dihedral>it's running r10318
06:07<eekee>oh
06:08<dihedral>what do you have?
06:08<Vikthor>eekee: It is from begining of December, so if you are able to sync it...
06:08<dihedral>i dont mind up/down grading
06:08<dihedral>as long as its after 10306
06:08<eekee>funnily enough I just synced a patch for Source Mage last night. That was a 1-liner though :d
06:08<eekee>dihedral: 10306...
06:08<dihedral>hmm...
06:08<Maedhros>r10306 happened long after november :p
06:08<dihedral>somthing newer?
06:08<eekee>Oh I can upgrade
06:09<dihedral>let me know which revision
06:09<dihedral>just in case you are getting latest trunk/
06:09<Maedhros>that patch should be pretty easy to sync though, looking at it
06:09<eekee>10318I'll just grab
06:09<eekee>ugh, typo
06:10<eekee>building
06:10<dihedral>i would like to do the thing 2 times, once starting the server pw protected, and once not
06:10<dihedral>althouth it should not make a diff at all!!
06:10<eekee>heh
06:11<eekee>what company does your thingy join as?
06:11[~]dihedral is tired and might be blabbling rubbish
06:11<dihedral>none...
06:11<eekee>o
06:11<dihedral>just like your client shows stats on games
06:12<eekee>ohhh
06:12<dihedral>:-)
06:13<dihedral>if i joined as a company or spectator i would have to probably download the map??
06:13<Maedhros>yes, you would
06:14<dihedral>or could i just send a MAP_OK packet :-P
06:14[~]dihedral wonders how far eekee is with compiling r10318
06:15<eekee>done just this second
06:16<eekee>ok loaded up, what was the server?
06:16<dihedral>openttd.dihedral.de:27030
06:17<dihedral>before you ask: "test"
06:17<eekee>ah yeah
06:17<dihedral>che?
06:18<dihedral>eekee: whats up?
06:18<eekee>stuck at "preparing to join"
06:19<dihedral>it already closed your connection...
06:19<dihedral>there
06:19<dihedral>nice
06:19<eekee>Oh! blah
06:20<eekee>whoa, what happened to 2nd company color?
06:22<dihedral> autopurge_protected = true
06:22<eekee>huh?
06:22<dihedral>sorry = 0
06:22<eekee>o
06:22<dihedral>does it in the mean time mean
06:22<dihedral>protected companies are not made unprotected/purged
06:23<Brianetta>no
06:23<dihedral>Brianetta: was hoping to see you around :-)
06:23<Brianetta>If you have any form of auto-purge on, all companies will be purged in 254 months or less.
06:24<dihedral>but autopilot can do that right?
06:24<Brianetta>Why were you hoping to see me?
06:24<Brianetta>autopilot can't do anything time based
06:24<Brianetta>unless you want it real time
06:24<Brianetta>as in, by the clock, not by the game date
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06:25<dihedral>well - check every 5 mins if companies are unprotected
06:25|-|lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
06:25<dihedral>warn if a player is in that company with a say command
06:25<dihedral>remember which player has received how many warnings
06:25<Brianetta>It oculd be done, if I put the UDP code into autopilot
06:25<dihedral>after 3 warnings kick
06:25<Brianetta>why kick?
06:26<dihedral>i dont like unprotected companies !
06:26<dihedral>Brianetta: you would not need the udp code
06:26<Brianetta>Well, you can put that code into autopilot yourself. It's free software, after all.
06:26<Brianetta>dihedral: How else would you suggest I determine whether a company is passworded?
06:26<dihedral>the command players
06:27<dihedral>last word = (un)protected
06:27|-|lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit []
06:27<dihedral>since 0.5.2RC1
06:27<Brianetta>Ah
06:27<dihedral>:-)
06:27<@peter1138>and the "date" command
06:27<Brianetta>No wonder autopilot keeps screwing up on that release
06:27<@peter1138>since... somewhen
06:27<dihedral>you added the date command?
06:28<Brianetta>date
06:28<Brianetta>ERROR: command or variable not found
06:28<Brianetta>Apparently not in 0.5
06:28<@peter1138>hmm
06:28<dihedral>Brianetta: lol
06:28<@peter1138>apparently not :o
06:28<dihedral>well - is in the forums :-D
06:28<@peter1138>ah
06:28<dihedral>i always had to add it myself
06:28<@peter1138>getdata
06:28<@peter1138>er
06:28<@peter1138>getdate
06:28<@peter1138>getdate
06:28<@peter1138>Date: 1-1-2050
06:28<@peter1138>stupid date format :o
06:28<dihedral>lol
06:28<dihedral>still - nice
06:28<Brianetta>dihedral: The dedicated server console is badly documented, mostly ignored and lacking many important features. autopilot is always playing catchup, which is made harder when trying to maintain backward compatibility.
06:29|-|lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
06:29[~]dihedral agrees
06:29<Brianetta>getdate
06:29<Brianetta>ERROR: command or variable not found
06:29<@peter1138>yeah
06:29<dihedral>not been backported
06:29<@peter1138>once i get my time machine working...
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06:31<dihedral>Brianetta: there are chat commands for irc to autopilot right?
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06:31<Brianetta>yes
06:31<dihedral>are there chat commands for ingame to autopilot?
06:31<Brianetta>yes
06:32<dihedral>should it work with !fish?
06:32<Brianetta>no
06:32<stillunknown>Why do cities refuse food when they reach a certain size?
06:32<dihedral>oh
06:33<eekee>stillunknown: food's place is taken by goods in building accepts
06:34<dihedral>are the say commands then hardcoded for ingame to autopilot?
06:34<eekee>put a station in the suburbs & it'sll take food
06:34<Brianetta>yes
06:35[~]dihedral things Brianetta aint very talkative :-)
06:35<Brianetta>I'm a bit frustrated with autopilot
06:35<Brianetta>Servers running in autopilot tend to quit
06:35<Brianetta>where servers not running in autopilot do not
06:35<@peter1138>strangeness :/
06:35<Brianetta>and I have no idea why
06:36<Brianetta>All I know is that autopilot receives an EOF from openttd, and the process exits.
06:36<dihedral>uh
06:36<dihedral>not so nice!
06:37<Brianetta>It resists all attempts to debug
06:37<Brianetta>especially as it's relatively rare
06:37<Brianetta>but if my Standard Server isn't running, it's because that happened.
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06:37<dihedral>is it when autopilot restarts the game or when te game restarts itself?
06:38<Brianetta>autopilot doesn't restart games
06:38<Brianetta>and my server doesn't restart itself
06:38<Rubidium>Brianetta: what commands are you really missing?
06:38<Brianetta>admin intervention, every time
06:39<Brianetta>Rubidium: Information. Most of the stuff that's available through the UDP protocol would be nice, although backwards compatibility will make it harder to capitalise on new things appearing.
06:40<Brianetta>autopilot supports 0.4.8, but the companies command in IRC just blanks out
06:40<dihedral>on 0.4.8?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause3>what about doing an autopilot snapshot for each version, and screw backwards compatibility?
06:40<Brianetta>so none of the internal code depends on it
06:40<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause3: People miss the new features.
06:40[~]dihedral likes Eddi|zuHause3's idea
06:41<dihedral>but one cannot have trunk/ features in an 0.4 game
06:41<Brianetta>I don't specifically support trunk
06:41<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean, provide a 0.4(.8) version, but stop developing it
06:41<Brianetta>My server runs 0.5
06:41<Eddi|zuHause3>and do a 0.5 version that is backwards compatible only for 0.5.x servers
06:42<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause3: Nobody would use it, unless I fixed bugs
06:42<Brianetta>and I do often have bgs to fix
06:42<Brianetta>I'd rather have one base of code to maintain on teh bugs front
06:42<dihedral>make it modular
06:42<Brianetta>It *is* modular
06:42<Brianetta>as modular as can be
06:43<Eddi|zuHause3>well, then i can't help you any further :)
06:43<dihedral>i mean in a way that the !companies command
06:43<dihedral>has a plugin for 0.4.8
06:43<Brianetta>unfortunately, the event loop is handled by Expect
06:43<dihedral>and one for 0.5.2
06:43<Brianetta>dihedral: Should I assume that the user will put the correct version in?
06:43<dihedral>hmmm... yes :-P
06:44<dihedral>just needs to be documented
06:44<Brianetta>Have you read the documentation?
06:44<dihedral>or autoload plugins depending on the version configured
06:44<dihedral>to some extent yes
06:44<Brianetta>Well done. You, DaleStan and me are the only ones I know of.
06:45<Maedhros>Brianetta: what would need to be changed before timetables became useful to you?
06:45<Brianetta>Maedhros: Interesting question. There needs to be some way of anchoring the timetable.
06:45<Brianetta>That is, the timetable needs an external point of reference.
06:46<dihedral>Brianetta: i would love to see the console of ottd become more powerfull!
06:46<Maedhros>would being able to set the date that the timetable should start for each vehicle help?
06:46<Brianetta>Maedhros: I have an idea
06:47<Brianetta>Put a command in a timetable which, when the train reaches it, sends a "signal"
06:47<dihedral>Maedhros: it would be great if the timetables showed the average time taken on the last round
06:47<Brianetta>The player can put this into one timetable
06:47<Rubidium>Brianetta: quite a lot of information is passed via the UDP packets
06:47<Brianetta>Then make other vehicles' timetables "depend" on this signal by making them wait until that signal is sent
06:48<Brianetta>Rubidium: I am very aware
06:48<Rubidium>and just dumping exactly what those UDP packets sent is probably not "the right thing"
06:48[~]dihedral is liking Brianetta's idea
06:48<Maedhros>Brianetta: hmm, challenging :)
06:48<Brianetta>Rubidium: I have the UDP code written in Tcl, and I intend to embed it in autopilot at some point
06:48<blathijs>brr, tcl
06:48<dihedral>:-P
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06:48<Rubidium>but as I don't have any experience with running (especially managing) a server, I wouldn't know what useful commands would be
06:49<Brianetta>Maedhros: So, ebd result is that you can start a train, but it won't move (or increment its late counter) until the master train reaches a certain point on its journey
06:49<dihedral>Rubidium: anything that gives power to admins :-)
06:49<Brianetta>Rubidium: To make it useful, you have to treat it as a screen reader (:
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06:49<Brianetta>The admin is blind
06:50<Brianetta>Being able to list signs and their locations would be excellent
06:50<Brianetta>Being able to list stations, vehicles, towns
06:50<Brianetta>Of course, interpreting the output with autopilot is a separate challenge (:
06:51<dihedral>make it human readable
06:51<Brianetta>dihedral: It always will be
06:51<Rubidium>yeah, but dumping all signs or *all* vehicles
06:51<Brianetta>Rubidium: With filters
06:51<dihedral>i mean easily :-)
06:51<Brianetta>Signs are coloured by company (or world)
06:52<Brianetta>Also, the admin can't ask the server directly what the landscape is, what newgrfs are running, etc
06:52<dihedral>being able to send a raw message would be nice too
06:52<dihedral>ie. excluding the [All] Console:
06:52<Brianetta>dihedral: That doesn't make an awful lot of sense...
06:53<Brianetta>Oh, like a global echo
06:53<dihedral>:-)
06:53[~]Brianetta shrugs
06:53<dihedral>when people from IRC chat to autopilot
06:53<Brianetta>autopilot chats back, yes
06:53<dihedral>autopilot can do a message "[All] autopilot:" out of it
06:53<Brianetta>Bridging two chat protocols using a wrapper is always like that
06:54<dihedral>then sending a raw message is usefull
06:54<Brianetta>There's a bridge between FreeNode's #Tcl and a Jabber chat channel
06:54<Brianetta>and everybody just has to get used to seeing the bridge's nickname at the start of each line
06:54<Brianetta>Anyway, autopilot's IRC module is completely optional
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06:54<dihedral>does not mean it has to be the same for ottd
06:55<Brianetta>We should be suggesting things which are useful to admins, not to me as a script dev
06:55<dihedral>welcome messages, add a reason message for kicking
06:56<Brianetta>autopilot was written to *overcome* shortcomings in the dedicated server, not to demand enhancements
06:56<dihedral>Brianetta: autopilot is a sort of admin
06:56<dihedral>it's an admins helper :-P
06:56<Brianetta>TO begin, it was only there to greet players and to pause the game
06:56<Brianetta>Those tasks are no longer necessary
06:56<dihedral>but there are other tasks that it can do
06:57<Brianetta>It was also used to backport fixes
06:57<dihedral>like having it handle a map list and load the next scenario to the next game
06:57<Brianetta>For example, you can set net_frame_freq in openttd.cfg for 0.4.8 with autopilot
06:57<Brianetta>it parses the config and sets the variable
06:57<Brianetta>openttd does that itself now
06:58<Brianetta>dihedral: autopilot would need a radical overhaul to be able to reset itself for a new game
06:58<dihedral>the same way ottd grows autopilot can have new administrative features
06:58<Brianetta>CUrrently, you exit it and start a new one
06:58<dihedral>would autopilot have to restar itself?
06:58<Brianetta>It'd have to reset a whole load of internal state
06:58<Brianetta>and be wrapped in some sort of loop
06:58<dihedral>run a load command?
06:59<dihedral>the trigger could be an echo in scripts/on_dedicated.scr
06:59<Brianetta>It'd also have to be able to archive off the current saved game, so that it wasn't overwritten
07:00<stillunknown>Brianetta: Who still uses 0.4.x?
07:00<dihedral>Brianetta: if i put an echo "next scenario" in scripts/on_dedicated.scr
07:00<dihedral>and the game reaches the end game date
07:00<dihedral>and starts a newgame
07:00<dihedral>it would output next scenario on the console
07:01<Brianetta>dihedral: Can you code in Tcl?
07:01<dihedral>when that happens autopilot could run load blah.scn
07:01<dihedral>Brianetta: unfor not yet
07:01<Brianetta>Learn it, and you can have SVN access
07:01<dihedral>lol
07:01<dihedral>autopilot is your baby :-P
07:02<dihedral>emphasis on your :-D
07:02<Brianetta>It's free software
07:02<Brianetta>As its owner and maintainer, I don't *have* to accept all patches supbmitted
07:02<Brianetta>but I can
07:02<Brianetta>and it'll always be GPL
07:02<stillunknown>Why not put effort into improving openttd?
07:02<dihedral>stillunknown: because openttd does not have to handle everything autopilot does
07:02<Brianetta>stillunknown: Still working on the Tk interface, and trying to suss out why it causes dedicated servers to quietly quit
07:03<dihedral>would not make sense
07:03<dihedral>Brianetta: you know php?
07:03<Brianetta>dihedral: Unfortunately
07:03<dihedral>how about i learn some tcl and help you out and you help me out :-D
07:04<Brianetta>What do you want help with?
07:04<dihedral>OpenTTDLib
07:04<dihedral>:-P
07:04<Brianetta>Well, I wrote a UDP parser for OpenTTD, and I have written several PHP applications
07:05<dihedral>afk (auf klo) :-D
07:08<dihedral>back :-P
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07:10[~]SpComb has a ottd.py that does master-server server listings and server-info
07:10<dihedral>Brianetta: would it be too hard to include?
07:10<Brianetta>A python script?
07:10<Brianetta>It'd markedly increase the requirements
07:10<dihedral>i did not mean the py script
07:11<dihedral>i ment the loading scenarios
07:11<Brianetta>It'd be difficult to include right now
07:11<Brianetta>but anything's possible
07:11<Brianetta>At the moment, autopilot is written with one presumption
07:11<dihedral>if there was a unique something to be retrieved from the games (unique to each round)
07:11<dihedral>then i would do some data mining
07:11<Brianetta>that there's one game, after which everything quits.
07:12<Maedhros>Brianetta: i've been looking at this, and setting a time for a vehicle to start the timetable is a lot easier (to code) than your idea about emitting signals
07:12<Brianetta>The MySQL module uses this assumption most of all
07:12<Rubidium>dihedral: how can we add something "unique" to a game?
07:12<Brianetta>and the startup sequence
07:12<Maedhros>Brianetta: will that be enough to make them useful though, do you think?
07:13<Brianetta>Maedhros: Depends how the time thing works. I'm not aware of a clock in the game, as such
07:13<Maedhros>well, currently you tell it to start the timetable on a specific date
07:13<dihedral>Brianetta: a timestamp of when the current map was started would suffice
07:13<Brianetta>I posted a suggestion somewhere, or wrote here on IRC once...
07:14[~]Brianetta does a quick search
07:14<dihedral>would be also interesting if games are paused when nobody is playing
07:14<Brianetta>They are...
07:14<dihedral>and one could show since when the game was running
07:14<Rubidium>dihedral: primarily because you don't know whether something is unique, you can't store the last "id" in openttd.cfg and then you would need to store the id in the savegame too
07:15<Brianetta>Maedhros: My original suggestion involved a clock
07:15<Rubidium>but what if the savegame gets loaded in another server that already has used that "unique" ID for another game
07:15<Brianetta>which could be shown in the corner of the screen
07:15<Brianetta>which ran at one minute per day, or there-abouts
07:16<dihedral>no
07:16<Brianetta>or five minutes per day, I think I suggested
07:16<dihedral>i dont think you understood me correctly
07:16<Brianetta>It was a long time ago
07:16<Brianetta>but you could timetable a train by time, to the nearest 5 minutes
07:16<Brianetta>and that time would be constant across the game
07:16<dihedral>just the timestamp of when openttd started the map
07:17<Maedhros>Brianetta: well, you can basically do that with days now, as long as you know when the timetable starts, no?
07:17<Brianetta>If a train took more than a timetable-day to reach a destination, then the next time should simply be assumed to be the next instance of that time
07:17<Brianetta>Maedhros: You can. When does the timetable start?
07:17<Brianetta>A clock is easiest, I think. Especially when you're trying to make a slot to insert one train into a route containing several tens of trains.
07:18<Brianetta>Stopping all trains and restarting the timetable isn't practical
07:19<Brianetta>but if that train won't leave before 6:15, then it'll wait there until the clock says 6:15
07:19<Brianetta>and if it's more than 6 hours late, make it wait for the next 6:15
07:19<Rubidium>maybe some button with "spread evenly"?
07:19<Brianetta>no
07:19<dihedral>lol
07:19<Brianetta>no automatic spreading
07:19<Brianetta>timetables are timetables
07:19<Brianetta>not traffic smoothers
07:19<dihedral>a train needs a certain time 'at least' to get from a to be
07:20<Brianetta>dihedral: That's all that's implemented
07:20<dihedral>just remember the last average of all trains in the shared order
07:20<Brianetta>A timetable should allow you to predictably create a traffic gap
07:20<dihedral>so one can at least see am i entereing a reasonable valo or not
07:20<Brianetta>into which a slow vehicle could be inserted, to schedule
07:20<dihedral>yes, but you dont want to underestimate
07:21<dihedral>and that will happen
07:21<Maedhros>Brianetta: the timetable starts when you tell it to - e.g. 1st of June 1954, and is different for each train
07:21<Brianetta>Maedhros: A good start would be to time existing journeys, so that the player can see how long that vehicle too to make the journey last time
07:21<dihedral>+ late trains should let your station rating go down :-P
07:21<Maedhros>Brianetta: yeah, i'm going to try to add that as well
07:21<Brianetta>Maedhros: Would you have to recalculate this each time you tweaked the timings?
07:22<Maedhros>recalculate the start date? yes... how else would it work?
07:22<Brianetta>To be honest, I'm not even sure what resetting the late counter does. Does it make the current order's travel time become 0? Does it make the next order start at 0 on arrival?
07:22<Brianetta>Does it remain at 0 until you start the train? It should...
07:23<Maedhros>yes, it makes the next order start at 0 on arrival
07:23<Brianetta>See, that's not very precise
07:23<Brianetta>You can't know when that train will arrive, exactly
07:24<Brianetta>I want to be able to say, "this train leaves at 5:30. This is just before the 4:15 from Sundingham is due to arrive, and the platform will be cleared fo rthat train."
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07:28<Maedhros>Brianetta: hmm, ok. would you be able or willing to test a few patches if i send them your way?
07:28<Ailure>jsjs
07:28<Ailure>this is so amusing
07:28<dihedral>i still want to do some datamining and need some constant data :-D
07:28<Brianetta>Maedhros: This evening.
07:29<Brianetta>It's 1:30pm her enow
07:29<Maedhros>i know. being a student has skewed my sense of when people are around though ;)
07:29<dihedral>Maedhros: lol
07:29<Brianetta>I'm at work now. Much as I probably could do some testing, I'd probably find myself having a quiet word from the boss...
07:30<Maedhros>fair enough
07:30[~]dihedral is at work too
07:30[~]dihedral is bored
07:31[~]dihedral wants to go to his bed
07:31<Brianetta>I'm reading about lightweight backpacking tents
07:31<dihedral>LOL
07:31<dihedral>doing some php online configuration app of appliances
07:31<Brianetta>Hilleberg Akto or Terra Nova Laser Competition?
07:31<dihedral>che?
07:32<Brianetta>Perhaps just a tarp and a bivi bag?
07:32<dihedral>http://www.apligo.com/products/hardware/nexcom/nsa/
07:33<dihedral>those things are nice
07:33<dihedral>esp the NSA 2107
07:33<dihedral>or the new NSA 2189
07:33<Brianetta>We just have Pix and stuff
07:35<dihedral>Brianetta: those things look nasty - cannot even get changed in there decently
07:36<dihedral>or have a guest
07:36<dihedral>:-D
07:36<Brianetta>They're not bad, actually
07:36<Brianetta>The Akto is big enough to sleep two if you leave your kit outside
07:36<dihedral>hmmm
07:36<dihedral>kit or kitti :-P
07:36<dihedral>depend on the kitti :-D
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07:48<Phazorx>Brianetta: may i suggest something for autopilot?
07:49<Brianetta>Feel free
07:49<Phazorx>a per player counters of their presence within particular game
07:49<Phazorx>based on login/logout times
07:49<Brianetta>You're going to have to clarify that
07:50<Phazorx>well some array key'd on player IDs, keepign track fo how much time they spent playing
07:50<Phazorx>resetting at every game reset
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07:51<Phazorx>probably stored in a file, sinced every once in a while
07:51<Phazorx>*synched
07:52<Brianetta>[13:53] <Phazorx> resetting at every game reset
07:52<Brianetta>There's that word again
07:52<Brianetta>autopilot doesn't do game resets at the moment
07:53<Phazorx>of cource it does not, but it knows when it happens
07:53<Phazorx>so if a new game is started it writes different file
07:54<Brianetta>No, it doesn't know when it happens
07:55<dihedral>OpenTTDLib could do that
07:55<dihedral>you get the join date of a client
07:55<Phazorx>Brianetta: strange, it reports game start saying it is engagad and stating map conditions
07:56<Brianetta>It does that when you start it
07:56<Brianetta>Most of that info is read from openttd.cfg
07:56<Brianetta>If you load a saved game, it says nothing about map conditions
07:56<Brianetta>because it has no way of knowing
07:57<@peter1138>until we add the console commands you need
07:57<Phazorx>Brianetta: that can be used as trigger ebtween newmap/reload
07:58<Phazorx>dihedral: i think it would be nice if it implemented in both monitoring tools
07:58<Gekko>i was offended by exit to Unix again
07:58<Gekko>lol
07:59<Gekko>isnt monorail enabled in 1999 on arctic climate?
07:59<Maedhros>Gekko: heh, which os are you really using then?
07:59<Gekko>linux
07:59<dihedral>Phazorx: autopilot and OpenTTDLib get their data through different methods
07:59<Gekko>GNU/Linux
07:59<Gekko>GNU isn't UNIX!
07:59<@peter1138>"Hi, the name's Linux... GNU/Linux..."
08:00<Noldo>peter1138: :)
08:00<eekee>*giggle*
08:00<Gekko>lol sexy
08:00<dihedral>if you have the right Desktop environment you can also have a kate along with it
08:00<Gekko>kate?
08:00<Gekko>kde editor/?
08:00<dihedral>yep
08:01<Gekko>its nice
08:01<dihedral>kate and kwrite
08:01<Gekko>geany is like kate
08:01<dihedral>i knew a kate write in sweeden once
08:01<Gekko>except Gtk
08:01<Gekko>isnt monorail enabled in 1999 on arctic climate?
08:02<Phazorx>dihedral / Brianetta: so you guys gonna think about doing it?
08:02<@peter1138>Gekko: ish
08:02<@peter1138>it is randomized...
08:02<Gekko>o
08:02<Gekko>h
08:02<dihedral>Phazorx: i cannot do any datamining if there aint a constant to referense a single game with
08:02<eekee>There's more KDE software than GNU software on a typical KDE box. Not to deny the fact that the GNU s/w is more essential to a Linux system, but their attempts at insisting on GNU/Linux seems a little arrrogant to me
08:02<Brianetta>Phazorx: I can add it to the wish list
08:03<Phazorx>well resetting can be done per admin requist for time being
08:03<dihedral>Phazorx: i dont mean resetting the data
08:03<dihedral>i mean knowing that game a is really game a and that game b really is game b
08:04<dihedral>from one and the same server
08:04|-|ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:04<dihedral>then being able to keep track of who created the company and what performance history it had , etc.
08:04<eekee>there's not that many different game going on on any one server. You chould be able to get a reasonable idea from company name
08:05<dihedral>eekee - if a server runs for a week non stop
08:05<dihedral>has a restart date of 2051
08:05<dihedral>stats say in 1935
08:05<dihedral>thats 36.4 hours
08:05<Noldo>eekee: it comes down to the definition of operating system, is it just kernel or kernel + some userland tool that are essential or all the stuff up to the window manager
08:05<dihedral>until the next game starts
08:05<dihedral>you will have 5 different games in one week
08:05<dihedral>from one server!
08:06<dihedral>if there were a $something that was consistent for one of those games
08:06<dihedral>but differed from one game to another
08:06<eekee>Noldo: yeah, it does, & to be level with the Windows & OS X folks I think you'd need to include the desktop in the OS
08:06<Phazorx>consistency of timeline?
08:06<Brianetta>It'd be easiest to get autopilot to close down the dedicated server and start it again
08:06<Brianetta>or issue a new gameitself
08:06<Brianetta>rather than lettinng openttd reach a date and restart itself
08:07<eekee>That's where the KDE or Gnome becomes important, they're KDE or Gnome machines with GNU & Linux in the back-end
08:07<Phazorx>Brianetta: that is basicaly same - admin action
08:07<Brianetta>Phazorx: Except without an admin
08:07<Phazorx>Brianetta: why would it restart by iotself, based on what conditions ?
08:08<Brianetta>If the date reaches the rester_date
08:08<Brianetta>hmm
08:08<Brianetta>restart_date
08:08<Gekko>eekee: IceWM
08:08<Gekko>XFCE
08:08<dihedral>Brianetta: i dont quite follow
08:08<Gekko>Fluxbox
08:08<dihedral>all my games restart once they reach a certain date
08:08<Brianetta>yes
08:08<Brianetta>exactly what I'm saying
08:09<Brianetta>Phazorx asked what conditions lead to it restarting itself
08:09<Phazorx>dihedral: enforcement method
08:09<Phazorx>cirrently it is ottd itself
08:09<dihedral>-i+u yes
08:09<Phazorx>Brianetta: inpmlyes that will be Autiopilot's responsibility
08:09<Brianetta>If you want autopilot to knwo about it, it had better be
08:09<eekee>Gekko: NOT my point! IceWM can't remotely compare with Windows for application integration, nor can any other of the literally thousands of other window managers out there. KDE & Gnome are merely the most developed examples of desktops, XFCE isn't quite in the same league of integratoin & power that Windows offers
08:10<dihedral>Brianetta: you could base it on the seed - roughtly
08:10<dihedral>not 100%
08:10<Brianetta>what seed?
08:10<dihedral>as it could happen that it is the same
08:10<dihedral>command getseed
08:10<Brianetta>Doesn't help you at all if you use the same seed
08:10<dihedral>though loading a savegame will provide the same seed
08:10<Gekko>eekee: Windows come with... notepad
08:10<dihedral>exaclty
08:10<Phazorx>dihedral: loading save game should not restart counter
08:11<Gekko>kde surpasses
08:11<dihedral>true
08:11<Brianetta>Phazorx: Loading a saved game and loading a scenario are the same operation
08:11<dihedral>gan the gameseed be fetched with upd?
08:11<Brianetta>Not sure
08:11<dihedral>shoot
08:12[~]dihedral asks for everyone to disregard my last question
08:12<@peter1138>yes
08:12<Phazorx>is date available to autopilot or openttdlib?
08:12<eekee>Gekko: Windows comes with the ability to copy and paste images or word processing data or WHATEVER between applications that don't even deal with the same formats. That is some HEAVY back-end work, and afaik the only things that even begin to let you do that in unixy operating systems are KDE & Gnome
08:12<dihedral>Phazorx: not yet
08:12<Phazorx>in that case it can not be used for determining different game start temporary
08:13<Phazorx>*sigh*
08:13<dihedral>hence i want a timestamp added :-D
08:13<dihedral>when was the map load
08:13<Phazorx>peter1138, btw brianettsa box, comparing performance with 500 trains before r10000 and now... has gain up to 20% performance but not any more
08:14<eekee>Alright, I'm out. Have fun all
08:14<Phazorx>is the networking part more demanding than pathfinding?
08:14[~]dihedral waves
08:14<@peter1138>what?
08:14<dihedral>Phazorx: lol
08:14<@peter1138>your sentence doesn't parse
08:14<Phazorx>hash optimization affected cooper's box much less than it affects single games
08:14<@peter1138>and "now" is not a revision
08:14<valhallasw>btw; what's the reason openttd is not using SF.net svn?
08:15<@peter1138>sf sucks
08:15<Phazorx>now bei9ng current, past hash optimization patch, release
08:15<Gekko>sf is ewww
08:15<@peter1138>current is not a revision either
08:15<Gekko>lol
08:15<Gekko>start forgesource.org
08:15<dihedral>Brianetta: would you think a timestamp would make sense?
08:15<Phazorx>peter1138: it doesnt matter which one 10170-10295
08:16<dihedral>for the sake of building statistics
08:16<dihedral>should not be more than a uint32 right?
08:16<dihedral>YMDHis
08:16<Phazorx>my point is, where i saw 100-400% improvement on single player i see 20% on multuplayer
08:17<valhallasw>peter1138: yes, but anything specific in mind?
08:17<@peter1138>valhallasw: we have our own perfectly decent hosting. why would we need sf?
08:17|-|Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]]
08:18<@peter1138>Phazorx: with profiling? (not that it's very easy in multiplayer)
08:18<Rubidium>Phazorx: from r10266 trunk has become quite a bit slower (due to a little stress testing of cargopackets, which will be removed)
08:19<dihedral>cargo packets will be removed or the stress testing?
08:19<Rubidium>the stress testing
08:19<@peter1138>heh
08:19<Phazorx>peter1138: with RL experience only
08:20<Phazorx>and i can not either debug or profile anything network related on my box
08:20<Phazorx>it segfaults trying to do anything udp related
08:20<Phazorx>if built with debug simblos
08:20<@peter1138>so what are you saying, it just "feels" slower?
08:20|-|orudgetest [~orudgetes@91.84.56.243] has joined #openttd
08:21<Phazorx>peter1138: 80% is a tad more than "it feels"
08:21<orudgetest>muahaha
08:21<orudgetest>#openttd is now available on the tt-forums applet
08:21|-|orudgetest [~orudgetes@91.84.56.243] has quit []
08:22<dihedral>which tt-forums applet?
08:22<orudge>http://www.tt-forums.net/chat.php
08:22<orudge>because OpenTTD newbies would constantly come into #tycoon and annoy people
08:22<orudge>:p
08:22<dihedral>LOL
08:22<Phazorx>80% as in it consuming 80% CPU rather than close to 100% before
08:23<dihedral>orudge: nice :-)
08:23<orudge>;)
08:25<@peter1138>so it's less and you still complain? :p
08:26<dihedral>peter1138: some people have a bad day if they have nothing to complain about
08:26<Phazorx>i'm poiting out that it it quite different amount of "less" than has been proven by local tests
08:27<Rubidium>Phazorx: and MP was always much slower with YAPF than SP with YAPF because YAPF had to ditch it's caches every game tick
08:27<Phazorx>hmm... i'm not too in-depth with structure of ottd networkign mdoel
08:28<Phazorx>but isnt it based on synchrocity between all clients and server?
08:28<Rubidium>yes, and YAPF wasn't completely desync free, but it should be since around r10300 IIRC
08:29<Rubidium>YAPF without the trashing of it's caches that is
08:29<Phazorx>hmm... so at that point maintaining cache would become network safe?
08:29<Rubidium>it should be
08:29<Phazorx>that cpuld explain mych lower yield of optimization in case of network...
08:30|-|Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-4-225.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
08:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10323 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 4 dirs):
08:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: reference company name, number and player (president) name
08:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: by index
08:31<@peter1138>19 :o
08:31<orudge>:o
08:31<Gekko>19?
08:32|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-4-225.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:32<Gekko>lots of references >.>
08:32<@peter1138>"19 files in 4 dirs"
08:33<orudge>hmm, tt-forums has had 141863 more posts in 2006 than it did in 2001. Which isn't surprising, really, as it only had 4300 posts in 2001.
08:33<orudge>a nice 6088 spamb^H^H^H^H^Husers signed up in 2006, too.
08:33<Rubidium>!calc (141863 + 4300)/4300
08:33<_42_>Rubidium: 33.9913953488;
08:33<dihedral>how is the bandwidth of that tt-forums orudge
08:33<Rubidium>ooh, 34 times more ;)
08:34|-|guyver6 [~guyver@135-mo4-4.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
08:35<orudge>dihedral: 120GB or so per month, iirc
08:35[~]Phazorx has dumb C question
08:35[~]orudge goes to check
08:35<Phazorx>'im trying to digest how CHANCE16I works
08:35<dihedral>orudge: you have a good offer or is it funded?
08:35<orudge>We have a good hosting solution
08:35<Phazorx>being as simle as CHANCE16I(a, b, v) ((uint16)(v) <= (uint16) ((65536 * (a)) / (b)))
08:35<orudge>202GB in the past 30 days
08:35<orudge>2.21TB in the past year :)
08:36<Phazorx>v is a the essential output in this case ?
08:36<Phazorx>orudge: nice :)
08:36<dihedral>orudge: may i ask what the hosting solution is?
08:36<orudge>A dedicated server colocated in Amsterdam
08:36<Rubidium>Phazorx: no it "returns" a bool
08:36<orudge>advertising and donations cover most of the costs
08:36<dihedral>what is the cost - if you dont mind
08:37<Phazorx>Rubidium: i see (i guess i did not phrase it correctly)
08:37<@peter1138>Phazorx: no, it's input...
08:40<dihedral>orudge: 202GB is that web traffic or total traffic
08:40<orudge>total traffic for Gandalf
08:40<orudge>(the server)
08:41<orudge>as for how much it costs, the base cost is around €170/month
08:42<orudge>advertising and sponsorship helps cover most of that, though.
08:42<dihedral>base = including all bandwidth?
08:42<orudge>but there's sometimes still a shortfall
08:42<orudge>yes
08:42<dihedral>whats the uplink?
08:42<orudge>100Mbps
08:43<orudge>could be changed to 1Gbps if need be, but we don't need ;)
08:43<dihedral>nice
08:43<orudge>it's only around 1Mbps bandwidth we use, by the 95th percentile system
08:43<orudge>but that still adds up to a bit
08:44<dihedral>would it save money if you had a mirror of some stuff?
08:44<orudge>Nah
08:44<orudge>not much can be mirrored really
08:44<orudge>everything's in hand, anyway
08:44<orudge>although donations are appreciated
08:44<orudge>but advertising will generally cover the cost
08:44<orudge>what isn't covered is paid for by me/my company
08:44<dihedral>i have nothing to donate - hence i asked about mirroring :-)
08:44<orudge>Heh
08:45<dihedral>as i pay nothing for my colocated server :-)
08:45<orudge>Heh
08:45<dihedral>also 100Mbit no bw limit
08:45<orudge>no bandwidth limit? at all?
08:45<orudge>How did you wangle that one, then?
08:45<dihedral>nope
08:45<orudge>Well, in all, I have some 5 servers scattered across the globe, anyway
08:45<dihedral>we resell to others for 180 euro/month
08:45<dihedral>the company does :-P
08:46<dihedral>every employee may setup his own server here :-D
08:46<orudge>Heh, nice
08:46<dihedral>i would be happy if there was anything i could do :-)
08:46<orudge>I'll keep that in mind, cheers
08:47<Phazorx><dihedral> every employee may setup his own server here :-D << that being limitted to web server?
08:47<dihedral>nope
08:47<dihedral>any service
08:47<orudge>Where are the servers located?
08:47<dihedral>guess where my games run :-)
08:47<dihedral>karlsruhe germany
08:47<Gekko>lol
08:47<orudge>got an IP to ping/traceroute, just out of curiousity? :p
08:47<dihedral>in the room next to my office
08:47<dihedral>dihedral.de
08:48<dihedral>not sure it responds to icmp packets
08:48<orudge>ah
08:48<orudge>doesn't seem to
08:48<dihedral>what ip from - i can open the port
08:48<orudge>I was looking from pc.owenrudge.net and phoenix.zernebok.com
08:49<orudge>ah, wait
08:49<orudge>my trace did complete
08:49<orudge>but only from pc.owenrudge.net
08:49<orudge>not from phoenix
08:49<orudge>(which is also located in Germany)
08:49<orudge>interesting
08:49<orudge>was just curious, anyway :)
08:50<dihedral>seriously - if you want anything let me know :-D
08:50|-|[BDS]-Klaus [~Miranda@p54AB2EE5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
08:50<dihedral>web svn dns ...
08:51<orudge>Again, will keep it in mind :)
08:51<orudge>Hmm
08:51<dihedral>i had 7 hops to phoenix.zernebok.com
08:51<orudge>would it be hypothetically possible to ship a server to you to connect up, or is that not possible?
08:52<dihedral>i have one in the rack already
08:52<dihedral>so not for no cost
08:52<orudge>OK, just wondering
08:52<dihedral>dont think they would allow it
08:52<orudge>Fair enough
08:53<dihedral>i can ask
08:53<dihedral>who does not ask never gets anything :-P
08:54<orudge>Heh, I was just wondering, I don't have a server to put in a rack at present
08:54<orudge>but just to keep in my mind should it arise
08:54<dihedral>these are nice http://www.apligo.com/products/hardware/nexcom/nsa/
08:54<dihedral>esp the NSA 2107
08:54<Phazorx>dihedral: how beefy is the box?
08:54<dihedral>amd 2000+ 1GB ram
08:55<dihedral>40GB hdd
08:55<dihedral>debian etch
08:55<Phazorx>nice
08:55<dihedral>currently running 4 ottd games, apache2 php5 mysql 5.0 and svn1.4
08:56<dihedral>seeing as we have all the hardware here as we build appliances an outage is never very long :-D
08:56<Phazorx>probably small ottd games :)
08:56<dihedral>it it's due to a hw failure
08:56<dihedral>1024x512
08:56<Phazorx>small in amount of action rather than mapsize
08:56|-|Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB6530.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
08:56<dihedral>Phazorx: check openttdlib.dihedral.de/example2.php
08:57<Phazorx>nice
08:57<dihedral>the games are not 'that' unpopular...
08:57<dihedral>sometimes it seems a little too quiet
08:58<dihedral>FP3 should do well today
08:58<Phazorx>i'm just looking at number of vehicles
08:58|-|Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:58<dihedral>for some reason i get a lot of noobs
08:58<dihedral>which is quite a pain up the rear end
08:59<dihedral>and the settings a close to hard
08:59<Phazorx>"Ilm\'now", magicquotes :)
08:59<dihedral>no
08:59<dihedral>strescape()
08:59<orudge>Heh
08:59<dihedral>i will remove that from the class
08:59<orudge>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=6559
08:59<orudge>where it all started ;)
09:00<hylje>:o
09:00<dihedral>orudge: nice
09:00<orudge>I wonder if I should upload the original 0.1 source to SourceForge
09:00<orudge>as SF only has 0.1.1 IIRC
09:00<orudge>just for posterity, you know.
09:01<dihedral>would be nice for sentimental reasons :-D
09:02<mikegrb>what? 0.1 isn't the latest?!
09:02<orudge>I even have some of Ludde's pre-OpenTTD code
09:02<orudge>but I won't release that
09:02[~]mikegrb dls 0.1.1 to see what great new stuff
09:02<orudge>as officially, that code isn't under the GPL I guess :p
09:02<orudge>Hmm, interesting
09:03<orudge>something I did have in the 0.1 code, or at least, the 0.1.1 code that never got released (ie, someone else made an 0.1.1 and that became official)
09:03<dihedral>Atari never got back to me
09:03<orudge>was headers in every source file, hmm.
09:03<dihedral>i wonder if i should give them another call or just drop the mater
09:04<orudge>Maybe worth trying again
09:04<orudge>although
09:04<orudge>others have tried
09:04<orudge>none have succeeded
09:04<hylje>:o
09:05<Phazorx>what do u want from atari?
09:05<dihedral>i would give kirk prindle a call and see if there is anything to get from him
09:05<dihedral>that they make their ttd grf files freeware
09:05<dihedral>so that openttd can distribute them
09:06<dihedral>it's been months since i lasst called him :-P
09:08|-|Osai^zZz changed nick to Osai
09:08<Maedhros>i can't imagine them doing that
09:09<dihedral>well - then at least i expect atari to give a no as an answer
09:09<dihedral>and not no answer :-P
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09:10<Brianetta>dihedral: Not just the grf files - the program code, too
09:10<dihedral>ah
09:10<Brianetta>openttd began as decompiled code
09:11<dihedral>so it would have to be made opensource or freeware?
09:11<Brianetta>which means that the GPL might not be legal
09:11<Brianetta>There would have to be a complete waiver of liability from whoever owns copyrightr
09:11<Brianetta>This might or might not even be Atari
09:11<Brianetta>Last time anybody asked them, they couldn't be arsed to find out
09:12<dihedral>last time i asked i was not redirected to the department dealing with it
09:12<dihedral>i only spoke to the leagal department
09:12<dihedral>some senior director
09:25<dihedral>orudge: if you buy an NSA 2189 and give me a virtual host on that i would take out my server here and have that thing in instead :-D
09:25<orudge>Heh
09:26<orudge>How much would that cost, then? ;)
09:26<dihedral>minimal condition
09:26<dihedral>2 quad core Xeon
09:27<dihedral>4GB memory
09:27<dihedral>2 750GB hdd's in raid 1 using 3ware 9550 with bbu
09:27|-|scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
09:27<dihedral>that would be around 3000$ i think
09:28<dihedral>:-D
09:28<dihedral>oh - missing the network cards :-D
09:29<mikegrb>heh that is close to the hosts we use
09:29<mikegrb>but 2 dual core xeon
09:29<mikegrb>and more ram
09:30<dihedral>you can add another 4GB if you like :-)
09:30<mikegrb>16 gb on the current ones ;)
09:30<dihedral>the quadcore xeons have 16mb 3rd level cache
09:30<stillunknown>peter1138: are you around?
09:30<mikegrb>not sure the exact hard drive size but we use 3ware0 9550s with bbu and raid 1
09:31<dihedral>i like them :-)
09:31<mikegrb>heh 750 it is
09:31<mikegrb>yes, they are /very/ nice
09:31<dihedral>if you want to - you can add up to 24 1Gbit net cards
09:31<mikegrb>he
09:31<dihedral>and have service ip addresses :-P
09:31<mikegrb>we just have 2
09:32<hylje>:o
09:32<dihedral>i'll do the iptables rules for ya :-P
09:32<mikegrb>well you don't need multiple cards for multiple ips
09:32<dihedral>no - but it's more fun ;-P
09:32<mikegrb>we use ebtables for handling the routing rules
09:32<dihedral>yuk
09:32<mikegrb>well we need it
09:32<dihedral>i prefer iptables
09:32<stillunknown>Anyone know how fast a vehicle must go to travel one game unit in one tick?
09:33<dihedral>it can to mac address matching
09:33<dihedral>but it also can make use of ipp2p
09:33<dihedral>and a lot more :-)
09:33<mikegrb>seems 60 is the most ips on a host
09:33<mikegrb>thought it was more
09:33<dihedral>mikegrb: why do you have to?
09:34<mikegrb>we do some special low level stuff
09:34<dihedral>like what?
09:34<dihedral>as an example - not exactly what you do :-P
09:35<mikegrb>well some arp stuff and what not
09:35<mikegrb>we do virtual servers ;)
09:35<dihedral>arp poisening :-P
09:35<mikegrb>gotta make sure people can't arp for someone else's ip
09:35<mikegrb>ja
09:35<dihedral>nice
09:35<mikegrb>well, preventing arp poisening ;)
09:35<dihedral>yeah
09:36<dihedral>that souns nice
09:36<mikegrb>also prevent rouge dhcp servers and what not though that bit I'm sure could be done with iptables
09:36<dihedral>sounds like i already like your job
09:36<dihedral>it could :-P
09:36<mikegrb>well there are also the customers who should be with a managed provider and ask silly questions every day ;)
09:37<dihedral>yeah - i dont like that job
09:37<mikegrb>heh
09:37<dihedral>i like having my hands on a servers commandline :-D
09:37<dihedral>i miss my job in england
09:38<mikegrb>I get to write nifty stuff like this too http://thegrebs.com/~michael/sshot/.admin_dashboard.png
09:38<dihedral>you guys hiring?
09:38<dihedral>got any jobs to go?
09:39[~]dihedral covets mikegrb
09:39<dihedral>covet covet covet
09:39<mikegrb>heh
09:39<mikegrb>it speaks too!
09:39<dihedral>:-(
09:40<dihedral>i get to do some sad php processing user enties and saving to a db
09:40<dihedral>all the nasty stuff
09:40<hylje>eww
09:40<hylje>php
09:40<dihedral>i like php
09:40<dihedral>just not processing webforms
09:40<hylje>heh
09:40<hylje>enjoy your raw way of doing forms
09:40[~]dihedral kick hylje
09:41[~]dihedral hits hylje
09:41<hylje>combo
09:41<hylje>+2
09:41[~]dihedral smiles like he did not do anything
09:41<hylje>bitter? D:
09:41<dihedral>from one ear to the other
09:41<dihedral>if you cut them of
09:41<hylje>:o
09:41[~]dihedral smiles once round
09:42<stillunknown>Anyone know how big tiles are supposed to be in comparison with real life?
09:42<Rubidium>there is no 1:1 comparison with real life
09:43<dihedral>1:4?
09:43<dihedral>:-P
09:43<stillunknown>I'm trying to figure out how fast a vehicle should go, to move one unit in one tick.
09:43<dihedral>why
09:44<dihedral>that information is still unknown
09:44<dihedral>harhar
09:44<Rubidium>when looking at the width of tracks it would be like 4 meters, when looking at the length of wagons it would be like 50 meters, when looking at houses it would be like 30 meters, when looking at ships it would be like 500 meters, when looking at aircraft 70 meters, when looking at busses (lengthwise) ....
09:45<stillunknown>I'm considering improving the train controller, but i would like to know certain relations.
09:45<@peter1138>there are no relations :)
09:45<dihedral>as ther are non
09:45<@peter1138>it's all arbitrary
09:45<dihedral>you may look but aint gonna find
09:46<stillunknown>I just want to know what's behind that strange UpdateTrainSpeed function, and how it decides how many moves it should do each tick.
09:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10324 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: reference engine names by index
09:47<dihedral>peter1138: can getdate be packported to the next stable release?
09:47<@peter1138>yes, it can
09:48<@peter1138>will it? i've no idea
09:48<dihedral>lol
09:48<dihedral>is there no list of things to backport?
09:50<dihedral>and could the DMY format be turned into the standard YMD?
09:51<Kjetil>standard where ? :P
09:51<dihedral>ah - true
09:51<dihedral>yeah
09:51<dihedral>forget it
09:52<@peter1138>everywhere
09:52<@peter1138>no confusion with DMY or MDY then
09:52<@peter1138>unless it's sql server 2005
09:52<@peter1138>which thinks YDM is a valid format :O
09:54<hylje>:o
09:55<stillunknown>Internal speed in the game, is it mph or kph?
09:55<@peter1138>no
09:55<Rubidium>arbitrary distance unit per arbitrary time unit
09:56<stillunknown>How are they related to displayed units?
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09:56<@peter1138>arbitrarily
09:56<@peter1138>the newgrf spec lists what they are
09:57<@peter1138>mph / 3.2 for ships & rvs, mph / 1.6 for trains, and something else for aircraft
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09:58<stillunknown>Wow, that means that a train moving at a speed of 160 mph, calls the move code 100 times :-|
09:59<stillunknown>Every tick.
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10:00<Rubidium>doesn't sound right
10:00<hylje>optimizations!
10:00<stillunknown>Rubidium: You would guess lower or higher?
10:01<stillunknown>Because it is possible i missed a factor 2.
10:01<Rubidium>lower
10:01<@peter1138>correct, it's not right
10:01<hylje>peter1138: wut?
10:01<Rubidium>rather something like once per 100 >> 8 times per tick
10:02<stillunknown>But spd is in subspeed units.
10:02<stillunknown>The bitshift is to get to normal speed.
10:02<hylje>subspeed!
10:03<Rubidium>stillunknown: no, the amount of game units to move
10:04<stillunknown>You were right, the order is 2^2 for fast trains.
10:05<stillunknown>So speed is game units to move divided by 256?
10:05<stillunknown>Normal speed that is.
10:07<Rubidium>what is "normal speed"?
10:07<Rubidium>just another arbitrary speed unit?
10:07<stillunknown>The unit of cur_speed, but i was wrong
10:08[~]dihedral updates his mac os x
10:08<hylje>mac :o
10:08<dihedral>i love my mac
10:09<dihedral>12" PowerBook G4
10:09<hylje>not g5?
10:09<dihedral>poerbooks never had a g5
10:09<dihedral>g5 was server processor only
10:10<dihedral>iirc
10:12<dihedral>the mac rescued me yesterday, after i was not able to build pre signals in a nighly mp
10:12<dihedral>from windows xp
10:13<dihedral>nor could i scroll using the arrow keys :-( was quite frustrating
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10:21<oxygene__>am i the only one getting a lot of warnings when compiling from scratch?
10:22<oxygene__>with current trunk
10:24<@peter1138>you'll get a shed load of string warnings
10:25<oxygene__>yup
10:25<oxygene__>that's what i meant
10:25<@peter1138>yup, that's perfickly normal
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10:58<dihedral>see you guys
10:58<dihedral>have a nice evening
10:58[~]dihedral is going to have a BBQ :-D
10:58<dihedral>yay
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11:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10325 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Fix (r10323): Missed 3 company name references
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11:34<Wolf01>hello
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11:41<bubersson>Hi all, I have a small question: I'm trying to compile trunk with codeBlocks and when linking executable I have this warning: "cannot find -lzlibstat" (by ld.exe). Don't you know what I'm doing wrong or where's the problem?
11:43<oxygene_>looks like you are missing a library
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11:44<bubersson>whole error looks like this: -\Dev-Cpp\mingw32\bin\ld.exe: cannot find -lzlibstat
11:45<bubersson>so maybe its bad version of ld.exe or something...
11:45<oxygene_>i'm not using windows so i can't help you here
11:45<oxygene_>ld is the linker. it's not its fault
11:45<oxygene_>do you have zlib installed?
11:46<bubersson>a thought so, but will have a look at it...
11:46<bubersson>a->I
11:46<oxygene_>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Mingw#Compiling_zlib
11:48<Phazorx>is recent naightly still have cargo stress test stuff ?
11:50<Rubidium>yes
11:50<Phazorx>grr... and yapf is still not using cache beyond current tick?
11:51<Rubidium>Phazorx: YAPF does so since around r10300
11:51<Phazorx>Rubidium: so it should be a bit faster compared to 295?
11:52<Rubidium>not necessarily
11:53<Phazorx>hmm... why wouldnt it be faster if it does less work now ?
11:53<Rubidium>did I *ever* say that it does less work?
11:54<Phazorx>i assumed that if it does something less often it would result in less work
11:54<Phazorx>like if you do sometihng once a a year compared to once a day normally a factor is number of days in year.. isnt it ?
11:55<Phazorx>heh
11:55<Phazorx>/home/alanin/OpenTTD/bin/data/ottdc_grfpack/def/pb_av8/
11:55<Rubidium>well, *if* you assume that only the code trash the cache is removed, then it results in less work... but it does cache slightly less information now
11:55<Phazorx>oops wc
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11:56<Phazorx>what i assumed is that it was disregarding tile cache every tick before and it doesnt have to that anymore
11:57<Phazorx>imo maintaining static information rather than rebuilding it every tick shoud result in significatly less amount of work... or there was no point of caching to start with
11:58<Rubidium>Phazorx: the cache was still used for pathfinding of all vehicles during that tick, so it did help
11:59<Rubidium>the "issue" is that with the new non-trashing behaviour *less* information could be cached
11:59<Alanin>lol
11:59<Rubidium>i.e. in worst case the new version is slower than the old one
12:00<Phazorx>so we do it less often but also lost cache efficency
12:00<Phazorx>heh cant get 'em all eh?
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12:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10326 /trunk/src/lang/ (34 files): -Update: change to new string codes used in english.txt
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12:03<@peter1138>415KB :o
12:03<ln->why does the sea advance so slowly in the scenario editor?
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12:04<Phazorx>hold tab
12:06<hylje>he wasnt asking for a workaround
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12:06<Rubidium>ln-: because it uses the "normal" game engine to flood
12:06|-|mikk36|away changed nick to mikk36
12:10<ln->isn't it immoral that towns and industries get built on sea-level, and they are destroyed as soon as the game starts?
12:10<hylje>more or less
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12:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10327 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp:
12:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r10236) [FS#934]: Vehicles wait at stations when they arrive early even
12:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: if they haven't been timetabled to wait, so make sure the lateness counter gets
12:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: updated as well.
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12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10328 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_gui.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp ship_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Close the timetable window when closing the vehicle window.
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12:36<@TrueBrain>Wolf01: how is lego going? :)
12:37<Wolf01>same as yesterday :)
12:39<@TrueBrain>which is? :p
12:39<@TrueBrain>Yesterday you trashed your work and started over :p
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12:40<Wolf01>today i'll trash my work and i'll start it again :)
12:41<Wolf01>i think i need to redraw only 4 tiles
12:41<@TrueBrain>Ah :p It might be easiest if you take the original image and draw over it :)
12:41<Wolf01>but they look ugly in the new version
12:41<@TrueBrain>(original image as in original TTD image :))
12:42<Wolf01>that is not really a problem, the problem is that i missed a step in 4 tiles
12:42<@TrueBrain>ah
12:42<@TrueBrain>nasty :)
12:43[~]Sacro is fleeing his house D:
12:43<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=600639#600639
12:43<@TrueBrain>ah :) Wolf01: you should also post (small) ingame screenshots :p
12:44<Wolf01>i posted one, i'll post another when i have all the 4 base terrain types done
12:44<Wolf01>the cleared-dirty-grassy-grass
12:46<@TrueBrain>I posted an in-game screenshot, not you :p
12:46<Wolf01>really?
12:46<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net//files/brickland_525.png <- first page
12:46<Wolf01>XD
12:47<@TrueBrain>oh, you updated it! :p
12:47<@TrueBrain>anyway, depth-perspective is still unclear :(
12:48<Wolf01>nah, i'll update it soon
12:48<@TrueBrain>can't wait ;)
12:48<Wolf01>the new depth perspective is more clear
12:48<@TrueBrain>get to work!
12:48<@TrueBrain>and next time try tomake a shot without those stupid chessboard tiles :p
12:48<@TrueBrain>(remove them, fast forward :))
12:48<@TrueBrain>I forgot it too btw, but it is annoying :)
12:50<@peter1138>heh
12:55<skidd13>Is the inclusion of the random town layouts likely?
12:55[~]stillunknown is trying to improve the train controller, digging through the usual compile problems atm
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13:21<Ammler>has someone here admin rights to brians standard?
13:22<@Bjarni>AFAIK only brianetta has that, but he isn't here right now
13:22<valhallasw>unless it runs under ottdcoop's account, which is pretty unlikely... only brianetta
13:23<Ammler>no, it runs under "autopilot"
13:23<@Bjarni>that's brianetta's script
13:23<valhallasw>and possibly a user on sarah
13:23<Ammler>no, I mean the unix user
13:24<Ammler>thats why I know its the standard and not our public
13:24<valhallasw>yes
13:24<valhallasw>it's using 75% cpu
13:24<valhallasw>righto
13:24<Ammler>yes, and nobody is playing
13:24<Ammler>only one is logged in but afk
13:25<valhallasw>yes
13:25<Ammler>Nite
13:25<valhallasw>and our openttd is niced higher than autopilots
13:25<valhallasw>:(
13:25<oxygene_>how many servers are you running on a physical server?
13:25<Ammler>yes, thats suprised me too
13:25<hylje>3
13:26<valhallasw>three, 2 coop and one nightly
13:26<oxygene_>ok
13:27<oxygene_>i could offer you my box if you like
13:29<valhallasw>that's not the problem
13:29<oxygene_>just in in case you need an idle box NOW ;)
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13:32<Phazorx>we can use alanins for actual game
13:32<Phazorx>instead of 46
13:32<hylje>:o
13:32<Phazorx>however that's an overkill
13:33<hylje>dont you think we should be strolling by #openttdcoop
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13:45<Wolf01>TrueBrain, seem that now i finished it: http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/screenshot.png
13:46<hylje>:o
13:46<@peter1138>those slopes look weird :p
13:46<@Bjarni>http://legolab.daimi.au.dk/DigitalControl.dir/city.jpg <-- this is what the roads should look like
13:46<@Bjarni>not the toyland ones... they are just plain weird :p
13:46<@Bjarni>hmm
13:47<@Bjarni>the slopes takes some time to getting used to
13:50<Maedhros>nice one Wolf01 :)
13:50<Wolf01>about the slopes, if i keep the first step of the same color you'll see a square around the plain tile when you raise 4 corners
13:50<+glx>there are some lighting bugs it seems
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13:51<Wolf01>is hard to do a very good lightning with steps when all the tiles (top-central-bottom) use the same graphic :P
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13:52<Wolf01>once i tried to draw round-shaped corners, but they looked very weird when i put them close
13:56<Wolf01>it would be very cool if we can have 3 different graphics, not for all the tiles, like corner-corner, straight-corner and corner-straight and the same for slopes
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13:57<Wolf01>but that is only for lightning, or maybe to help drawing round-shaped corners
13:58<Wolf01>and round shaped roads over an hill instead of a ^
13:58<@Bjarni>http://gregand.dk/billedegalleri/show-pic.php?show=521 <--- awesome picture.... lunchbreak anyone? :D
14:01<Wolf01>we have something more weird here, too bad i can't show it to you because google maps doesn't have a close viev of that area
14:02<Wolf01>is a 5 way roadcross with a single railway in the middle
14:04<hylje>:o
14:05<Wolf01>uhm, there is the "good" resolution instead: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.820489,13.215147&spn=0.002512,0.005665&t=k&z=18&om=1
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14:08<Wolf01>i know one guy of my same age died there, is bad to die at 20 years because you don't see a train in the middle of a roadcrossing :/
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14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10329 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature [FS#812]: (patch) option to select the "default" rail type when you
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: start a new game or load a game. This is done either static, i.e. rail,
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: electrified rail, monorail and maglev, or dynamic which takes either the first
14:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: or last available railtype or the railtype that is used most on the map.
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14:24<@Bjarni><Wolf01> i know one guy of my same age died there, is bad to die at 20 years because you don't see a train in the middle of a roadcrossing :/ <-- that's bad
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14:26<@Bjarni>a 5 way crossing is always bad, but to add the railroad is just... oh well. If the crossing is made correctly, then it shouldn't be a problem, but it's my experience that generally railroad crossings lacks the safety build into the Scandinavian ones (most likely due to cost. They cost a fortune here)
14:26<nairan>not only scandinavia
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14:28<@Bjarni>yeah, crossings are expensive, but I'm pretty sure that you can can build a a crossing in USA for less than you can in Scandinavia, basically due to less safety
14:29<Smoovious>what's different about Scandanavian ones?
14:29<Smoovious>-a+i
14:31<Prof_Frink>LCs are basically safe, barring: a) breakdowns and b)morons
14:31<Prof_Frink>And there's not much you can do about either
14:31<@Bjarni>they activate when the train reaches a certain location. The crossing then close the barriers and stuff, checks that everything works correctly (that's a whole lot of sensors) and then report back to the train if something is wrong. The train will then be told in time to stop in front of the road in case of a failure
14:32<Smoovious>could put a bunch of big spikes o n the front of all engines, so they look like their sole purpose on the track is to kill someone... like, they're gunning for you
14:32<@Bjarni>failures can be anything from failure to activate to broken lightbulbs, jammed barriers or stuck bells
14:33<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: What's really needed is a system to check the track's clear
14:33<@Bjarni>ssh
14:33<@Bjarni>don't give the safety guys any new ideas
14:33<Prof_Frink>'cause if someone breaks down between the barriers, they'd be forked
14:33<@Bjarni>they are expensive enough as it is
14:33<Smoovious>catapult launchers to fling anything sitting on the crossing, away, right before t he train gets there
14:34<Prof_Frink>And then there's morons who dodge round the barriers
14:34<Prof_Frink>Or, to give them their full title
14:34<Prof_Frink>Darwin Award Volunteers
14:34<Smoovious>yeah, well, they deserve to get hit imho... take em out of the gene pool
14:35<@Bjarni>if anything is stuck on the tracks due to a breakdown, the trains can usually stop in time as it will be visible in decent time. Most crossings are at 75 km/h or 100 km/h lines
14:35<Maedhros>yes, but the passengers of the train that hits them don't deserve to die...
14:35<Prof_Frink>It's a shame though
14:35<@Bjarni>then again once in a while there is a curve or poor visibility and then... oh well
14:35<Prof_Frink>Tends to break the train, and cause the driver to have a mental breakdown
14:36<Smoovious>deaths on trains, from hitting a road vehicle, are extremely rare... most of the time, passengers don't even realize it until someone is asking for witness statements
14:36<Prof_Frink>What's needed is a Big Red Button to hit if you break down
14:36<Smoovious>hell, a city bus I was on hit a car... didn't even feel i t
14:36<@Bjarni>Japan has that big red button (but I think it's yellow)
14:36<Maedhros>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufton_Nervet_rail_crash <- a few miles away from me
14:37<Prof_Frink>Obviously, with some form of anti-tamper to stop drunken studens causing chaos
14:38<@Bjarni>Maedhros: sounds bad for the HST... it fails to clear the track as intended
14:38<@Bjarni>trains really has devices to clear the track for whatever they hit
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14:40<@Bjarni>http://www.l-eriksen.dk/toge/fast/sjaelland/stkbh/depoter/s-tog_vaerksted_htaa/1/51310.jpg <-- see. There is a device to clear the track before it can hit the wheels... I'm a bit surprised at the size though... it looks kind of small on this EMU
14:40<ATD>Guten Abend
14:41<ATD>Tag auch
14:42<@Bjarni>http://www.railorama.dk/fotos/dk/dsb/d/me/rsdsbme1507a_nf20051213.jpg <-- I never heard of any of those derailing because they hit anything
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14:42<ATD>aha
14:44<@Bjarni> <Smoovious> hell, a city bus I was on hit a car... didn't even feel i t <-- I once reversed with like 12 cars to connect to another one. I didn't feel when I hit it. I just got the message over the radio that it was hit (at low speed... I knew it was there)
14:45|-|ATD [~ATD@p54BA5B52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
14:45<@Bjarni>if it's possible to hit a train car without feeling it, then what about a road car of around a single ton... I don't see the huge danger
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14:45<@Bjarni>hmm
14:45<@Bjarni>who was that ATD guy?
14:45<@Bjarni>looks like he didn't like us talking about railroad crossing safety
14:46<mikk36>ehh
14:46<@Bjarni>if mikk36 is going to leave now, then it's a dangerous topic :P
14:46<mikk36>i'm not
14:46<mikk36>just removed my clients hdd from my machine
14:46<@Bjarni>well, it still is though
14:46<mikk36>and put it back to his machine
14:47<@Bjarni>for the car driver
14:47|-|Osai^Kendo changed nick to Osai
14:48<mikk36>now installing windows :)
14:48<mikk36>ok, i'm going to leave now :D
14:48<mikk36>goint to kitchen ;)
14:49<@Bjarni> <mikk36> now installing windows :) <-- you live dangerously
14:52<mikk36>i like living dangerously :)
14:52<mikk36>don't you ?
14:53<@Bjarni>I play it safe
14:54<@Bjarni>that's why my robot software can make the robot find the way to the goal every single time
14:54|-||ReNZoR| [~user@17.80-203-33.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
14:54<|ReNZoR|>ANyone here?
14:54<@Bjarni>no
14:54<eekee>nope
14:54<|ReNZoR|>ah ok
14:54<|ReNZoR|>:)
14:54<eekee>:)
14:55<@Bjarni>eekee: quit copying me >_<
14:55<eekee>:P
14:55<|ReNZoR|>Just wonder, I used to play tt a couple of years ago
14:55<|ReNZoR|>now yesterday I downloaded it
14:55<@Bjarni>I think that's a common thing in here
14:55<@Bjarni>the used to play TT, that is
14:55<|ReNZoR|>And i remember that it used to be alot more maps
14:55<|ReNZoR|>or scenarios
14:56<|ReNZoR|>bf, but now there is only a few
14:56<@Bjarni>we can't help you with missing files from your pirated version
14:56<|ReNZoR|>its the Openttd thingy
14:57<@Bjarni>oh you mean you downloaded OpenTTD and request more scenarios in OpenTTD?
14:57<Biff>i have the original boxed transport tycoon deluxe cd somewhere
14:57<|ReNZoR|>Bjarni: yes
14:57<@Bjarni>ok
14:57<|ReNZoR|>and i miss like bigger cities
14:57<@Bjarni>I read it as you just confessed to pirating TTD to get the data files :s
14:58<|ReNZoR|>no
14:58<|ReNZoR|>I even have the cd somewhere
14:58<@Bjarni>"I used to play TT and I just downloaded it yesterday"...
14:58<@Bjarni>oh well
14:59<SmatZ>latest builds are o lot bugged :( wrong budged window, YAPS asserts, cargo rating at unload stations :(
14:59<SmatZ>*YAPF
14:59<@Bjarni>well, some people do show up here and ask us to help them with their pirated versions because whoever they got it from didn't include all files.... it's rare, but it happens
14:59<eekee>I just realised I'm very good at understanding what people mean to say
14:59<|ReNZoR|>anyways what im wondering is, is there a way i can download scenarios?
14:59<@Bjarni>0.5.2 should be pretty stable
15:00<eekee>I'm much less good at making myself understood, but ya, carry on
15:00<Biff>eekee: you havent been on irc long?
15:00<@Bjarni>nightly builds are defined as "unstable" so expect them to break your computer, burn your house and make your girlfriend leave you.... issues in them are likely less severe than that though
15:00<eekee>Biff: couple of years
15:00<@peter1138>SmatZ: you know we have a website for that...
15:00<SmatZ>peter1138: well... I do not want to open 3 bugs - maybe it is better to say here, isn't it?
15:01<@Bjarni>no
15:01<@peter1138>no
15:01<SmatZ>oh ok :)
15:01<@Bjarni>because if you open 3 new bug reports, then I would have less than 50% of the bugs assigned to me again :p
15:01<SmatZ>is the displayed rating at unload stations intended?
15:01<@peter1138>lol
15:01<Biff>eekee: ah, you lose the ability to understand what people mean in a few years then
15:01<Biff>:P
15:01<eekee>Oh :/ lol
15:02<@peter1138>SmatZ: no
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15:02<SmatZ>ok
15:05<|ReNZoR|>Is its possible to spec an online game?
15:05<Maedhros>opinion gathering time - should pressing an "Autofill" button for timetables clear all the current timings?
15:05<@peter1138>|ReNZoR|: yes
15:05<|ReNZoR|>peter1138: How?
15:06<@peter1138>by joining it as... a spectator
15:06<@peter1138>rocket science i guess
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15:09<Smoovious>also known as watching a game
15:10<Smoovious>there's also a pretty decent manual online via the web page that a lot of people put a lot of effort into putting together... might not be a bad idea to take a look at it
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15:19<Wolf01>'night
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15:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10330 /trunk/src/lang/ (35 files): -Fix [FS#939]: budget window used wrong param for loan repay/borrow amounts
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15:35<@peter1138>1,488 trains :o
15:36<@peter1138>and fucked up vehicle lengths :o
15:38<@peter1138>heh, 14MB of vehicles
15:38<@Bjarni>nice
15:42<@peter1138>hmm
15:42<SmatZ>peter1138: a tough one for a path finder :)
15:42<@peter1138>ah, it's an old save :o
15:42<@peter1138>so it wasn't override my newgrf config, hehe
15:42<@peter1138>but gees
15:42<SmatZ>:-)
15:42<@peter1138>using TGVs for freight :(
15:43<@peter1138>how long does it take to die?
15:43<SmatZ>:( it was the fastest one ...
15:43<SmatZ>how do you mean 'die'?
15:43<@peter1138>TGVs are passenger trains!
15:43<@peter1138>crash
15:44<@peter1138>assert
15:44<@peter1138>whatever
15:44<SmatZ>first tick
15:44<SmatZ>or second tick
15:44<SmatZ>very soon
15:44<@peter1138>hmm
15:44<@peter1138>not for me
15:44<SmatZ>strange
15:44<SmatZ>I am using 64bit compiler
15:44<SmatZ>I will add as a comment
15:46<@peter1138>hmm
15:46<@peter1138>also
15:46<@peter1138>because it's an old save, it's no doubt picking up your settings from the config
15:46<@peter1138>so they're different
15:48<SmatZ>I didn't use YAPF in 0.4.8 , maybe it was not even present there ... I am using some strandard config for the trunk
15:48<SmatZ>but it worked with YAPF in older versions, like rev 10200
15:48<@peter1138>sure, but it works for me too
15:48<@peter1138>so
15:49<@peter1138>i suggest you load it, then save it
15:49<SmatZ>okay
15:49<@peter1138>then we'll be testing it with your settings
15:49<SmatZ>I am compiling it at 32bit machine to test it... moment please :)
15:49<Rubidium>SmatZ: KUDr has made some (fairly fundamental) changes around r10300 to YAPF
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15:50<SmatZ>Rubidium: I know, I am reading the svn log often :)
15:50<SmatZ>I will test rev before those changes
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10331 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: Add the possibility of automatically filling in timetables based on
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: the times from the first (or subsequent) run-throughs.
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16:08<mikl>argh, tiMiDity doesn't crash when ottd does...
16:09<mikl>so now I have the title track playing in three different instances
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16:09<SmatZ>mikl :-)
16:09<prakti>lo guys.
16:09<mikl>ah, only one left now
16:09<SmatZ>hi
16:10<@peter1138>SmatZ: maybe you'd like to donate a 64bit machine to me? ;)
16:10<prakti>I've taken another shot in extending the german town-name generator.
16:11<SmatZ>peter1138: if I had enough money, I would donate 64bit machines for the whole dev team ;)
16:11<mikl>argh, it's really hard to find out whether you are using too many sprites before the game crashes...
16:13<colle>ls
16:13<@peter1138>too many sprites?
16:13<colle>sry :<
16:13<@peter1138>what is this "too many sprites" of which you speak
16:13<mikl>peter1138: the dreaded "Error: Tried to load too many sprites (#16383; max 16383)"
16:13<Rubidium>somebody still using 0.5.x ;)
16:14<SmatZ>:)
16:14<@peter1138>oh, yes, people still use that version
16:14<Rubidium>mikl: try to reach the sprite limit in trunk ;)
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16:14<@peter1138>i can't :(
16:14<mikl>Rubidium: I'd rather not - I'm not sure I have enough memory for that ;)
16:14<@peter1138>i only have 27000 sprites loaded
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16:15<@peter1138>how much memory do you have?
16:15<mikl>512 MB on this box
16:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10332 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#940]: ratings where also shown on drop-off stations.
16:15<@peter1138>oh, plenty then
16:16<mikl>yeah, but Firefox eats most of it, the greedy badger...
16:17<mikl>Heh, I love the danish names...
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16:25<@Bjarni><mikl> Heh, I love the danish names... <-- so do I. They are understandable :)
16:25<mikl>Bjarni: Okssø seems to be a bit of a blooper, though
16:25<mikl>but they are quite good, otherwise
16:25<@Bjarni>hehe
16:26<mikl>but ok, if you see the strange names cities have in southern Denmark...
16:26<@Bjarni>reminds me of the remark from the guy, who got a English town name of "Cunttown" xD
16:26<mikl>lol
16:26<@Bjarni>now it can't make that one anymore
16:26<mikl>I suppose that's for the best
16:27<@Bjarni>it's a combo of 4 strings or so and until this guy got it by pure randomness (or playing a zillion times), nobody would have noticed
16:27<@Bjarni>because it was hidden very well in the code
16:27<SmatZ>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucking%2C_Austria :)
16:28<mikl>Bjarni: so someone had done it on purpose?
16:29<@Bjarni>no
16:29<@Bjarni>it was a random combo of strings and all other combos using those strings (with other strings) appeared to be sane
16:29<mikl>so, simply the law of large numbers, then :)
16:29<@Bjarni>In August 2005 the road signs were replaced with theft-resistant signs welded to steel and secured in concrete to make the signs harder to take <-- some people read that as a challenge
16:30<@Bjarni>mikl: something like that
16:30<mikl>I wonder where I would hang a sign like that...
16:30<@Bjarni>how about... over your bed?
16:30<mikl>I can't imagine having it hanging somewhere a random guest might see it :)
16:30<@Bjarni>I guess you don't live in a dorm then
16:31<mikl>No, can't say I do...
16:32<mikl>http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21963756-5012895,00.html <- Now, that's the oddest piece of news I've seen all month
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16:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10333 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#943]: News messages were shown on top of the endgame screen and high score chart.
16:36<@Bjarni>well
16:37<@Bjarni>it's Japan... sometimes you see stuff there where you think "only in Japan"
16:37<@Bjarni>however I would say that USA could have produced this story as well
16:37<@Bjarni>except for the last part. The TV stations wouldn't care for a dead 14 year old student
16:37<stillunknown>Does anyone what part of the train code is responsible for creating an initial distance between cars when they leave a depot?
16:38<@peter1138>no. nobody does.
16:38<Smoovious><Bjarni> except for the last part. The TV stations wouldn't care for a dead 14 year old student <--- they'd care a lot... makes for good rating
16:38<Smoovious>+s
16:39<stillunknown>peter1138: how funny, or were you being serious?
16:39<@peter1138>well
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16:39<@peter1138>i tried to find it before
16:39<@Bjarni>it's a balance issue. If they can win more viewers by showing stuff like that than they lose by such incidents, then I think they are willing to do it
16:40<@Bjarni><stillunknown> peter1138: how funny, or were you being serious? <-- to tell the truth, I'm not even sure where I should look for it so it could take a while to find
16:40<@Bjarni>happy searching
16:40<@Bjarni>:P
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16:41<@peter1138>stillunknown: it must involve cached_veh_length (for shorter wagons) but that's only used by AdvanceWagons() which is called for reversing a train
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16:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10334 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#937]: with smooth scrolling enabled, the viewport destination was not clamped to the map
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18:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10335 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix (r10331): Increment the current order index *after* using it in UpdateVehicleTimetable.
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19:46<Jerub>I find it insulting that as a billionaire transport tycoon, the bank will only lend me a million.
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23:39<Gekkko`>Is there a patch to fund building a new TOWN
23:39<Gekkko`>I want to build a town
23:39<ln->that only happens in soviet union
23:39<Gekkko`>SovietTTD
23:39<Gekkko`>>_>
23:40<Jerub>In soviet russia, town builds you!
23:41<Gekkko`>but seriously
23:41<Gekkko`>i want to fund the building of a town
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 26 00:00:23 2007