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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-26

---Logopened Tue Jun 26 00:00:23 2007
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01:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10336 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix [FS#910]: reaching the end of a line in certain cases incorrectly stopped signal updates
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02:07<dihedral>morning
02:07[~]dihedral yawns
02:07<dihedral>way too early to have to be at work :-D
02:09<colle>agreed
02:10<@peter1138>yes, which is why i'm not :D
02:13<dihedral>peter1138: just rubb it in will ya :-)
02:14<Gekkko`>still
02:14<Gekkko`>i want to build a town
02:14<dihedral>build it
02:15<dihedral>no one is going to stop you ;-)
02:15<Gekkko`>no
02:15<Gekkko`>fund building a town
02:15<Gekkko`>like an industry
02:15<dihedral>lol
02:15<dihedral>boring
02:15<Gekkko`>not boring
02:15[~]dihedral yaws
02:15<dihedral>:-)
02:15<dihedral>why would you want to fund building a town?
02:16|-|bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has joined #openttd
02:16<hylje>i want to play simcity in ottd
02:16<bubersson>what about patch fund new town... ;)
02:16<hylje>say, choice between a transport company and simcity
02:16<Gekkko`>bubersson: exactly
02:16<bubersson>somewhere at tt-forums, but maybe outdated
02:17<Gekkko`>I'm playing a small map
02:17<Gekkko`>only 4 towns
02:17<Gekkko`>I need another
02:17<bubersson>it has to be really small map ;)
02:17<Gekkko`>that would make me so happy :)
02:17<Gekkko`>128 x 128
02:17<Gekkko`>playing it online
02:17<Gekkko`>4 people on it
02:17<Gekkko`>4 towns
02:17<Gekkko`>been playing from 1950, were at 2009
02:17<dihedral>hylje: hey - call it openCC :-)
02:18<dihedral>or occ for short
02:18<hylje>not sc?
02:18<dihedral>Gekkko`: if the towns have not grown enough that aint an openTTD fault :-)
02:18<Gekkko`>they have grown
02:18<Gekkko`>that's not what i want to do
02:18<dihedral>yeah
02:18<Gekkko`>they're all 20k peopple
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02:19<Gekkko`>I want another town
02:19<dihedral>hylje: i think under these conditions you might be right
02:19<Gekkko`>I've run out of stations
02:19<Gekkko`>lol
02:19<dihedral>rename them
02:19<hylje>heh thought so
02:19<dihedral>:-P
02:19<dihedral>start a new map
02:19<Gekkko`>no
02:19<dihedral>and bump the number of towns up a nodge
02:19<Gekkko`>NO
02:19<Gekkko`>>_>
02:19<Gekkko`>I just wanna grow one myself
02:19<dihedral>your choice :-)
02:19<Gekkko`>lol
02:20<Gekkko`>how hard would it be to write a patch
02:20<dihedral>do it and find out :-D
02:20<Gekkko`>well, I can answer that >_>
02:20<Gekkko`>hard
02:20<Gekkko`>because then I have to add a button
02:20<Gekkko`>a patch option
02:20<Gekkko`>and the actual doing of the patch
02:20<dihedral>you could possibly look in the map editor for the code :-D
02:20<dihedral>of building a town
02:20<dihedral>then mix that in with the stuff for funding an industry
02:20<dihedral>if you are lucky it will work
02:21[~]dihedral hopes he has not given Gekkko` some nasty idea
02:22<Gekkko`>you have
02:22<Gekkko`>it might be a function
02:22<Gekkko`>muahaha
02:22<Gekkko`>but I'm lazy
02:25<dihedral>then dont moan about
02:25<dihedral>iwaniwantiwan - but i am too lazy to put any effort in to it myself :-D
02:26<Gekkko`>nono
02:26<Gekkko`>not that
02:26<Gekkko`>I just dont know where to start looking :P
02:27<dihedral>look at all function names that the map generator calls :-)
02:27<dihedral>though i dont think that way of doing it will be all that successfull
02:27<dihedral>but it would give you something to do and keep you quiet :-D
02:38<Gekkko`>is there a way to instantly sell everything off
02:38<dihedral>rcon <password> "reset_company <playerno>"
02:39<dihedral>Gekkko`: i dont think there is!
02:39<Gekkko`>lol
02:40<Gekkko`>we need a declare bankrupcy command
02:40<dihedral>what for?
02:40<Gekkko`>how do i set the rcon password
02:40<Gekkko`>so it sells it all off
02:40<dihedral>in the servers openttd.cfg
02:40<Gekkko`>for people leaving a game
02:40<Gekkko`>how do i change it ingame
02:40<dihedral>or run dump_vars and you will see a variable there
02:40<dihedral>variable=pass
02:41<dihedral>something like server_rcon i think
02:43<dihedral>it's rcon_password
02:44<dihedral>on the server run rcon_password=foo
02:47<Gekkko`>alright
02:47<Gekkko`>My friend wanted to sell off his company
02:47<Gekkko`>because he's just taking up space.
02:47<Gekkko`>need a "Declare Bankrupcy" button in budget
03:01<dihedral>or in the copany info window
03:01<dihedral>but you know what? you could just reset the company from the server
03:01<dihedral>as a"declare bankrupcy" would be a little nasty for
03:01<dihedral>companies that do not have a password set
03:02<dihedral>make it even easier for spoil sports to ruin someones game
03:02<dihedral>join an unprotected company, click the button and dissapear
03:02<dihedral>besids
03:03<dihedral>a company can only be removed if it has noone playing in it
03:03<dihedral>unless you can move a client to spectator in-game it aint gonna work
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03:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10337 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#880]: Autoreplace is only valid for the standard vehicle list, not station or shared order lists.
03:14<Gekkko`>dihedral: it could just start the stages of bankrupcy
03:14<Gekkko`>as in mega -$500,000
03:14<Gekkko`>quick and nasty button.
03:14<Gekkko`>make it time delayed by 2 years
03:14<Gekkko`>and have the chance to cancel
03:16<Biff>you cant choose to go bankrupt
03:16<Biff>that makes no sense
03:17<Biff>at least not beeing able to choose it at an arbitrary time
03:19<Gekkko`>why
03:19<Gekkko`>its the closest to liquidating
03:20<Gekkko`>unless you could make it auto take everything back to the depots, sell them off, take up all the train tracks, delete the stations and the depots
03:20<Gekkko`>then kill yourself off
03:20<dihedral>Gekkko`: liquidating is done by the admin :-)
03:20<Gekkko`>i dont know what can
03:20<Gekkko`>how so?
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03:20<dihedral>Gekkko`: set the autoclean variables of your server
03:20<dihedral>set it for unprotected companies = 0 or 1
03:21<dihedral>for protected companies to 255
03:21<dihedral>(or whatever the maximum is)
03:21<Gekkko`>what does it do
03:21<dihedral>then removing ones pass from the company will do the job
03:21<dihedral>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Autoclean_companies
03:22<dihedral>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Openttd.cfg
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03:22<Gekkko`>I don't want it like that
03:22<Gekkko`>I just want them the option to kill themselves off.
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03:26<MeusH>hello
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03:34<dihedral>Gekkko`: does not make sense!! if someone does not want to play anymore they can leave
03:34<dihedral>you as an admin can then remove the company
03:35<Gekkko`>yeh
03:35<Gekkko`>but its not the same
03:35<Gekkko`>>_>
03:35<Gekkko`>as an admin can i set their money to -500,000?
03:35<dihedral>no - it aint the same - though is the way it's done :-)
03:35<dihedral>you dont have to!!
03:35<Rubidium>Gekkko`: the major problem is other people removing your company when you are asleep etc.
03:35<Gekkko`>password it
03:36<Gekkko`>>_>
03:36<Gekkko`>plus make it a patch
03:36<Gekkko`>im not saying leave it one
03:36<Gekkko`>on*
03:36<Gekkko`>patch for when they want to
03:36<Rubidium>then it is a server side patch
03:36[~]dihedral thinks Gekkko` aint making a lot of sense
03:36<Rubidium>which still doesn't solve the problem
03:36<Gekkko`>how so?
03:36<dihedral>server side patch: server sets the patch
03:37<Gekkko`>not that
03:37<dihedral>not the clients playing
03:37<Gekkko`>i know
03:37[~]dihedral was not sure
03:37<Gekkko`>how doesnt a server side patch fix it
03:38<Rubidium>it still allows people to remove YOUR company when you are away when you deliberately have not passworded it so you can play together with other unknown people
03:39<Gekkko`>I don't play with unknown people
03:39<Gekkko`>this is why i'd like it as a patch
03:39<dihedral>Gekkko`: that is beside the point
03:39<Rubidium>you maybe not, but others do
03:39<Rubidium>Gekkko`: other people on the server you are playing on that is
03:39<Gekkko`>if they are part of the company that is the server, do they become the server?
03:39<dihedral>Gekkko`: i dont think the Devs make patches just for you and according to your playing style
03:39<Gekkko`>I know.
03:39<dihedral>well thats at least a start :-P
03:40<Gekkko`>I just fail to understand how if it's server side that it could screw up
03:40<Gekkko`>with a toggle switch patch
03:40<dihedral>you enable or disable it for the game
03:40<dihedral>once enabled
03:40<dihedral>anybody can make use of it
03:40<dihedral>as in ( i want to remove this company i just joined)
03:40<Gekkko`>cant be disabled?
03:41<dihedral>it's a server side patch!!
03:41<Rubidium>Gekkko`: only by the server admin
03:41<dihedral>you enable it for all or disable it for all
03:41<Gekkko`>exactly
03:41<Gekkko`>i mean only enabled by the server admin
03:41<Gekkko`>and disabled at will
03:41<dihedral>so - someone sais "admin - i want to purge myself"
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03:41<dihedral>you go around enable the patch??
03:41<Gekkko`>that's the admins option
03:42<Rubidium>reset_company is much less hassle
03:42<dihedral>then the admin can also execute the reset_company command
03:42<Gekkko`>that's like saying because guns exist everyone is going to shoot someone
03:42<Gekkko`>lol
03:42<dihedral>rather than everybody shooting themselves ??
03:42<dihedral>that is basically what you are saying
03:42<Gekkko`>:)
03:42<dihedral>hey admin? i wanna shoot myself
03:43<dihedral>can you give me the weapon
03:43<Rubidium>dihedral: wrong
03:43<dihedral>explain
03:43<Rubidium>he admin? I wanna shoot myself, can you give *everyone* the weapon?
03:43<dihedral>LOL
03:43[~]dihedral laughes his head off
03:44<@peter1138>that works too
03:44<Gekkko`>so because people are stupid and dont password their company...
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03:44[~]dihedral votes to making Gekkko` the #openttd mascot
03:44<Gekkko`>and people are stupid and cant decide not to click self-destruct...
03:44<Gekkko`>did I say this had to be enabled on every server on earth?
03:44<Gekkko`>nein/
03:44<dihedral>Gekkko`: some admins are stupid enough to see that this is not the way forward
03:45<Gekkko`>pfft
03:45[~]dihedral coughs
03:48<dihedral>Rubidium: what are the looks on a limit_level_land patch that has been discussed in the forums?
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03:53<dihedral>hello elmex
04:01|-|scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd
04:03<Gekkko`>back to my original question
04:04<Gekkko`>Rubidium: "Fund new town"
04:04<Gekkko`>how hard would it be to implement
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04:06|-|SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
04:15<dihedral>hello SmatZ
04:15<dihedral>is orudge around??
04:17[~]dihedral looks for orudge
04:19<SmatZ>dihedral: hello dihedral
04:19<dihedral>i have news on hosting
04:19<SmatZ>I don't think so :(
04:19<dihedral>but the news is for orudge :-P
04:19<SmatZ>about openttd.org hosting?
04:20<dihedral>no
04:20<SmatZ>ah :) ok
04:20<dihedral>colocation
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04:21<SmatZ>aha :)
04:24<dihedral>Gekkko`: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31558&highlight=town
04:25<Gekkko`>I <3 dihedral
04:25<Gekkko`>reckon it'll work with r10295?
04:25<dihedral>2 options:
04:25|-|Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:26<dihedral>try it if it works OK if it does not
04:26<Chris82>morning :)
04:26<dihedral>try to make it work
04:26<Gekkko`>lol
04:26<Gekkko`>another question
04:26<dihedral>hello Chris82
04:26<Gekkko`>can you install MinGW in Linux
04:26<dihedral>why would you want to do that?
04:26<Gekkko`>to compile for the Windows noobs
04:26<dihedral>what the?
04:26<Chris82>I think GCC can compile a Windows .exe too?
04:27<dihedral>Chris82: dont know about that :-P
04:27<Chris82>I thought so
04:27<dihedral>but i doubt you need a windows machine :-)
04:27<Chris82>I mean I can use GCC on Windows with CygWin
04:27<dihedral>nor would you need MinGW
04:28<dihedral>ask Rubidium or so, they will know :-P
04:28<dihedral>or Gekkko` for a change: how about asking google some of those questions?
04:30<Gekkko`>gah
04:30<Gekkko`>lol
04:31<Gekkko`>how do I compile OpenTTD for Windows inside Linux
04:31<Gekkko`>tehre.
04:33<dihedral>apparently there is a minGW32 for linux :-)
04:33<dihedral>you running debian?
04:33<hylje>what
04:34<dihedral>http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/mingw32.html
04:34<Chris82>I was just reading that you can make Linux binaries on Windows with GCC, so I assume it might also work the other way round
04:34<Chris82>anyway I had another question, does anyone use the diagonal demolish/terraform patch?
04:34<Chris82>there's a bad bug in it but I can't figure its origin
04:34<Gekkko`>dihedral: I shall look, thanks
04:35<dihedral>Chris82: scrienies?
04:35<dihedral>*screenies
04:35<Gekkko`>dihedral: I should have used google
04:35<Gekkko`>I have learnt my lesson
04:35<Gekkko`>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Cross_Compiling
04:35<Chris82>the bug is simply that I can click demolish on any tile when I have no money and the money is still subtracted
04:35<Chris82>very ugly
04:36<Chris82>Gekkko: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22879
04:36<Chris82>I can't find the reason why this bug would happen though
04:36<Chris82>the money affecting code looks the same as trunk code
04:37<Chris82>the only thing that's added is support for diagonal demolish/terraform when clicking ctrl
04:38<Gekkko`>might require an fi
04:38<Gekkko`>if*
04:38<Gekkko`>if funds(0)
04:38<Gekkko`>something
04:38<Gekkko`>lol
04:39<Chris82>if (money.GetCost() < 0) {
04:39<Chris82> _additional_cash_required = ret.GetCost();
04:39<Chris82> return cost;
04:39<Chris82> }
04:39<Chris82>I think this is the test
04:39<Chris82>it's the same with the patch and in trunk though
04:39<Chris82>so I might be wrong
04:41<dihedral>got a link to the patch for me? dont wanna search the forums :-)
04:41<Chris82>oh sure sorry
04:42<Chris82>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=590842#590842
04:42<Chris82>the bug is in all including the latest version of the patch
04:43<Rubidium>but is the bug in trunk/0.5.2?
04:44<Chris82>no
04:44<Chris82>it's definitely in the patch
04:44<Chris82>I tested it yesterday with 4 trunk versions and 0.5.2
04:45<Chris82>so there must be at least one non-obvious (for me) error in the patch code
04:45<Chris82>I am just comparing trunk and patch version with Tortoise, but haven't found anything yet
04:47<dihedral>does it print out the error too then?
04:47<dihedral>i.e. that you dont have enough funds
04:49<Chris82>yes I get the error that I don't have funds and nothing is demolished
04:49<Chris82>but the money is still subtracted
04:50<Noldo>aha
04:51<Noldo>if the snippet you pasted is inside one of the Cmd_ functions then the "return cost" might be the error
04:52<Chris82>it's inside a cmd_function yes
04:52<Chris82>it was an example from the demolish function
04:52<Chris82>so I shouldn't return cost in this location?
04:52<Noldo>returning the cost will cause that much money to be substracted from the account
04:53<Chris82>hmmm but I doubt this is the error, this piece of code looks the same in trunk
04:53<Chris82>it's also within the cmd function
04:53<Chris82>clear_cmd.cpp line 453 in current HEAD Revision
04:54<dihedral>comment of the code:
04:54<dihedral>@return error or cost of terraforming
04:54<dihedral>try returning false at that point :-P
04:55<dihedral>sorry, return CMD_ERROR
04:56<Chris82>return (cost.GetCost() == 0) ? CMD_ERROR : cost; < you mean here?
04:56<dihedral>if cost is returned, it will be subtracted from you money
04:56<Noldo>:)
04:56<dihedral>if CMD_ERROR is returned it will not
04:57<Chris82>oh I'll try that
04:57<Chris82>gotta hurry to uni now though, lecture starts soon
04:57<Chris82>I'll let you know later if this fixed it :D
04:57<dihedral>looking forward to hear it :-)
04:58<Noldo>what was that patch about anyway?
04:59<dihedral>diagonally leveling land
04:59<dihedral>or diagonally destrying stuff
04:59<dihedral>i think it's quite a handy thing
05:00<dihedral>now we would only need diagonal tunnels and diagonal bridges :-)
05:00<SmatZ>yes, diagonal levelling (or auto levelling while building rails) would be very useful :)
05:01[~]dihedral agrees
05:01<dihedral>to the autoleveling :-)
05:01<SmatZ>:)
05:01<dihedral>i would find a timestamp quite usefull too :-D
05:02<SmatZ>what kind of 'timestamp' ?
05:06<dihedral>timestamp of when the currently playing map was loaded/generated
05:07<dihedral>then i can start doing some mining :-D
05:08<SmatZ>aha :-D
05:10<Ailure>we need more tanks
05:10<Ailure>ehhmm wrong window
05:10<dihedral>LOL
05:10<dihedral>someone playing C&C?
05:10<SmatZ>:D
05:10<Ailure>i eas
05:10<Ailure>I was
05:10<Ailure>CnC3 to be exact
05:10<dihedral>i would like to make statistics :-)
05:11<dihedral>which client was playing on which server
05:11<Ailure>I could try make a tank for TTD of course
05:11<Ailure>but it would be kinda pointless
05:11<dihedral>what company, performace , etc
05:11<Ailure>high running cost, low amount of passengers :p
05:11<dihedral>Ailure: as a desaster, comes along and destroys tracks stations etc
05:11<Ailure>heh
05:12<dihedral>drives once across the map
05:12<Ailure>and before someone say that's would be too violent for TTD
05:12<Ailure>what's up with the industries gettin gblown up
05:12<Ailure>or the UFO then? ;)
05:12<dihedral>:-P
05:12<Ailure>The UFO disaster can actually do quite some damage
05:12<dihedral>not as spectacular
05:12|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
05:12<Gekkko`>Ailure: used to destroy the opposition
05:12<Ailure>if the track it lands on is in the middle of a city
05:12<Gekkko`>make it go to their lorry stations
05:12<Gekkko`>and if it cant enter
05:12<Gekkko`>blows it up
05:13<Ailure>heh
05:13<dihedral>lets turn OpenTTD into OpenC&C
05:13<Gekkko`>yeh
05:13<Ailure>there's already a such project
05:13<Ailure>but it's going nowhere
05:13<SmatZ>:D
05:13<Ailure>FreeCnC i belive it's called
05:13<dihedral>you there, friend or fow
05:14<Sacro|Laptop>friend, and a wet one at that
05:14<dihedral>i say fow
05:14<dihedral>uh - watch it mr.
05:15<dihedral>i shall call my cammerads
05:15<dihedral>cammerads?
05:15<dihedral>"aye"
05:15<dihedral>:-D
05:16<SmatZ>comrade ?
05:16<Gekkko`>gah
05:16<Gekkko`>dihedral: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31558&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=town&start=40 doesnt work with the latest nightly
05:16<Gekkko`>and im not going back
05:16<Gekkko`>>>_>>
05:17<Gekkko`>../root/source/OTTD-source-nightly-r10328/src/main_gui.cpp:1503: error: `CMD_FUND_TOWN' undeclared (first use this function)
05:18<Gekkko`>basically, if i want it to work, i have to modify the patch
05:18<Gekkko`>gah why cant their be nightly PATCHES
05:18<Gekkko`>instead of just nightly builds
05:19<dihedral>then get a version of trunk where the patch does work
05:19<dihedral>look at the diff
05:19<dihedral>and port it manually
05:19<Gekkko`>yeh I did
05:19<Gekkko`>it burns my eyes
05:19<Gekkko`>lol
05:19<Gekkko`>hmm
05:19<dihedral>keep it up
05:19<Gekkko`>whats a good app for linux for comparing the source to the diff?
05:19<dihedral>seems to keep you quite :-D
05:20<Gekkko`>dihedral: the thing that keeps me quiet is the fact im doing 6 things at once
05:20<dihedral>linux and code noob?
05:20<Gekkko`>duel monitors :P
05:20<Ailure>heh
05:20<Gekkko`>dihedral: no, I've just never needed to use a patch >_>
05:20<dihedral>so?
05:20<Ailure>hmm
05:20<Ailure>I wish the game had some kind of proper supply/demand system though
05:20<Gekkko`>I have no experience in the field of comparing source to a patch
05:20<dihedral>using gnome, kde, xfce?
05:20<Gekkko`>IceWM
05:21<Ailure>the resources you transport is rather boringly the same D:
05:21<dihedral>goto freshmeat.org i think that's the domain
05:21<dihedral>and search for diff :-)
05:21<Gekkko`>for what
05:21<Gekkko`>ha ha ha not.
05:21<Gekkko`>I have a diff.
05:21<Gekkko`>diff = patch
05:21<Gekkko`>>_>
05:21<Gekkko`>lol
05:21<dihedral>my word
05:22<dihedral>you are some straining person
05:22<dihedral>:-)
05:22<Gekkko`>lol
05:22<Gekkko`>it gets lost somewhere in translation :P
05:22<dihedral>if you want a graphical interface to diff
05:22<dihedral>then just look for it on sourceforge freshmeat or google
05:22<dihedral>or perhaps your software repository
05:22<Gekkko`>hmm
05:22<Gekkko`>do you use one?
05:23<dihedral>hence "search for diff"
05:23<dihedral>i use a mac for diffs :-)
05:25<dihedral>http://freshmeat.net/projects/meld/
05:25<dihedral>http://freshmeat.net/projects/tkdiff/
05:28<dihedral>meld looks a little similar to my mac's filemerge
05:29<Gekkko`>vim -d file.patch file.cpp
05:29<Gekkko`>or vim -d file.patch file.cpp -o
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05:29<Biff>do vimdiff work on a patch and the source file?
05:30<Biff>will it show the source as the patch would make it on one side?
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05:43<Sacro|Laptop>Request for timetable: Total time for journey
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05:45<Maedhros>Sacro|Laptop: easily done
05:46<Sacro|Laptop>Maedhros: well commit it :p
05:46<Sacro|Laptop>its just so i can alter timings
05:47<Sacro|Laptop>so i can have trains meeting at terminii at nice times
05:49<@peter1138>oh, nice, totem can play the bbc's videos now
05:50<Sacro|Laptop>they killled the drm?
05:50<@peter1138>no idea
05:50<Sacro|Laptop>hmm
05:50<Sacro|Laptop>brb
05:50|-|Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:50<@peter1138>the plugins never used to work on the pages
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06:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10338 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt timetable_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Show the total time that the timetable will take.
06:02<dihedral>peter1138: there was some complaint against BBC just yesterday or so
06:04<Sacro>Maedhros: THANKS :D
06:04<Sacro>aside from now i have to svn up
06:04<Maedhros>and recompile everything due to the english.txt change ;)
06:04<Sacro>:(
06:04<Sacro>oh crap, looks like rain
06:04<Sacro>this isn't gonna be good
06:05<Sacro>suppose i best grab what i forgot and flee again
06:05<Maedhros>good luck :/
06:07<Sacro>the city is flooded
06:07<Sacro>and its just started spitting again
06:07<hylje>heh
06:07<hylje>enjoy your rain
06:07<hylje>and fog when you dont
06:08<Sacro>the worrying thing is i'm moving closer to the river
06:08<Sacro>hylje: we dont just have fog and rain
06:08<Sacro>despite what asterix tells you
06:08<hylje>omg
06:08<hylje>you caught the reference :O
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06:15<Sacro>hylje: yes :p
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06:42<Gekko>im back
06:42<Gekko>TTD needs natural disasters xD
06:42<Gekko>like global warming vb
06:42<Gekko>s/vb//
06:43<dihedral>autoclean_companies based on preformance :-)
06:43<Gekko>>.>
06:43<Gekko>no.
06:43<dihedral>no?
06:43<Gekko>no.
06:43<Gekko>lol
06:43<dihedral>i was not even talking to you
06:43<dihedral>:-)
06:43<Gekko>i know.
06:44<Gekko>lol
06:44<dihedral>if its based on performace anything below say 400 gets removed
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06:44<Gekko>god i wish my C was useful.
06:45<dihedral>i wish you were useful
06:45<Gekko>its at a substandard level.
06:45<dihedral>and you knew c/c++
06:45<Gekko>i do know c.
06:45<Gekko>just not good at it.
06:45<dihedral>:-)
06:45<dihedral>i dont know c myself :-P
06:46<dihedral>but i dont have to
06:46<Gekko>>.>
06:46<dihedral>coding is coding!
06:46<Gekko>you just make others feel lesser.
06:46<Gekko>lol
06:46<@peter1138>grrr
06:46<dihedral>whatsup peter1138
06:46<Gekko>grrwhat
06:46<@peter1138>who knows about opengl programming?
06:46<Gekko>not I.
06:46<dihedral>uh
06:46<dihedral>what you looking for?
06:46<@peter1138>i'm getting segfaults in glGenTextures()
06:47<Gekko>#opengl @ freenode?
06:47<hylje>i think you want to visit a gl project chan
06:47<ln->it's ##opengl
06:47<Gekko>redirects
06:48<dihedral>i still think autoclean on performance is a good idea
06:49<dihedral>no matter if protected or not
06:49<Gekko>peter1138: any chance that "found new city" patch will get in trunk?
06:49<SmatZ>a company can bankcrupt
06:50<dihedral>SmatZ: yes - but a company can stay in game happily at 250 performace
06:50<dihedral>or even lower
06:50<Sacro>peter1138: i know a bit of opengl
06:51<dihedral>is it not nice when 2 people find eachother
06:51<SmatZ>dihedral: maybe this is what are admins for :) it would be hard to determine if it is an unskilled player, the player went offline and will get back, or somebody is intentionally blocking the game slot...
06:51<Gekko>dihedral: what do you mean
06:52<Gekko>lol.
06:52<Gekko>i play with 4 towns, 4 people
06:52<SmatZ>there is also an ability to autoclean companies when nobody connects for some game time ...
06:52<dihedral>SmatZ: you're right, it would be a job for autopilot to do :-)
06:53<SmatZ>dihedral: :-)
06:53<dihedral>SmatZ: true - was just a though :-)
06:53<dihedral>nothing more
06:53<@peter1138>Sacro: worked around it
06:53<@peter1138>multithreading issue :/
06:53<SmatZ>dihedral: I just had a conversation with you - nothing more :-)
06:53<dihedral>peter1138: way to go
06:53<dihedral>lol
06:54<dihedral>SmatZ: nice - thank you :-)
06:54<Sacro>peter1138: ahh
06:54<dihedral>workarounds is what makes releases stable
06:54<dihedral>see windows :-)
06:54<Gekko>lolol
06:57<SmatZ>yes, Windows are nowadays stable - after 20 years of development...
06:57|-|nairan [~Maui_key@p5498E9A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:59<dihedral>are or is
06:59<dihedral>depends on what windows you mean
06:59<Gekko>SmatZ: they arent stable...
06:59<dihedral>if are - development is a lot more than 20 years
06:59<Gekko>lol:
06:59<Gekko>4000 years
06:59<SmatZ>I mean windows like xp
06:59<SmatZ>:D
07:00<dihedral>Gekko: rubbish
07:00<Gekko>egypt?
07:00[~]dihedral is being a little bitchy towards Gekko today
07:00<SmatZ>Gekko: maybe Vista have some problems ... but I do not have crashes with XP nor 2k :)
07:00<Gekko>or rome?
07:00<Gekko>im used to it.
07:00<dihedral>SmatZ: bluescreens have been made 'invisible'
07:01<Gekko>doesnt phazse me
07:01<Gekko>dihedral: like wine :P
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07:01<@peter1138>vista does a lot of switching to black
07:01<dihedral>nice
07:01<Gekko>vista sux
07:01[~]dihedral agrees
07:02<dihedral>OS X is the way forward
07:02<Gekko>xp sux osx sux
07:02<dihedral>Gekko: sux
07:02<dihedral>:-)
07:02<Gekko>osx halfsux
07:02<dihedral>os x is all one needs
07:02<Gekko>as the other half is bsd
07:02<dihedral>nice user interface for easy handling
07:02<dihedral>powerfull unix terminal
07:02<Gekko>all one needs is water and food
07:03<valhallasw>and internet
07:03<valhallasw>^___________^
07:03<dihedral>oh yeah
07:03<dihedral>internet
07:03<Gekko>osx costs more than windows >.>
07:03<valhallasw>so?
07:04<Gekko>cost sux
07:04<dihedral>Gekko: it does not
07:04<valhallasw>you mean 'I can download windows and hax0r it, cannot do that with ox x'? :P
07:04<Gekko>yes, it does
07:04<dihedral>os x has been at 129$ for a few years now
07:04<Gekko>runs on specific pcs only
07:05<dihedral>it does not
07:05[~]dihedral got it to run in virtual pc's :-D
07:05<Gekko>...
07:05<dihedral>damn slow i tell ya
07:05<dihedral>but with the intel version
07:05<dihedral>it's a dream
07:05<Gekko>it failz.
07:05<dihedral>Gekko fails
07:05|-|MarkMc [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:05<Gekko>failz!!
07:05<dihedral>OS X is a dream
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07:06<Gekko>GNzU forever.
07:06<Gekko>GNU*
07:06<dihedral>+ if you like just get open dawin
07:06<Gekko>its defunkt
07:06<dihedral>Gekko is defunkt
07:06<Gekko>yo mumma is defunkt
07:07<dihedral>your mamma is that fat
07:07<dihedral>that your dad could roll over twice after sex and is still on top
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07:08<dihedral>Gekko: no offence :-P
07:08<valhallasw>is Gekko the name of a troll?
07:08<Gekko>no.
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07:09<dihedral>valhallasw: Gekko is the name of some guy constantly wanting 'fund a town' included
07:09<dihedral>and a 'declare bankrupcy' button
07:09<valhallasw>ah
07:09<Gekko>ive said it 4 times today only
07:10<Gekko>>.>
07:10<dihedral>4 times said, discussed for 10 mins each
07:10<Gekko>:)
07:10<dihedral>lol
07:10<dihedral>rofl
07:11<valhallasw>'Town funding Really needs to be in Openttd, Lazy Losers' <-- troll?
07:11<Gekko>what?
07:11<dihedral>LOL
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07:14[~]dihedral being a troll
07:14<dihedral>i want a timestamp
07:14<Gekko>go get one.
07:15[~]dihedral rushes off to find a timestamp
07:16[~]dihedral found 1182860177
07:16[~]Gekko found 1182860178
07:17<dihedral>i bet you did not
07:17<dihedral>cheater :-)
07:17<Gekko>oh i did
07:17<dihedral>how then?
07:17<dihedral>tell me, tell me
07:17<dihedral>huh?
07:17<Gekko>gods.
07:19[~]dihedral translates some stuff at work
07:24<Chris82>dihedral: Interesting, I fixed the money subtraction bug now, but it's weird
07:24<Chris82>if (money.GetCost() < 0) {
07:24<Chris82> _additional_cash_required = ret.GetCost();
07:24<Chris82> return cost;
07:24<Chris82> }
07:24<Chris82>this piece of code is from original trunk and also in the patch
07:24<Chris82>when I change return to CMD_ERROR the money is not subtracted in the patch anymore
07:24<Chris82>but with original trunk code it's subtracted, but this bug is not in trunk, I don't get it
07:25<Chris82>with original trunk it's not subtracted I meant
07:27<Chris82>bugger I also just noticed that with the diagonal patch the explosion animation is not shown
07:27<Chris82>the idea behind this patch is really great, but the patch is quite buggy
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07:35<Chris82>Yay! fixed the subtraction bug :D
07:35<Chris82>cost.AddCost(ret); was declared twice and placed in the wrong location
07:36<Chris82>terraform and demolish doesn't subtract money anymore now :D
07:36<Chris82>(when you don't have any)
07:36<Gekko>high five
07:36<Chris82>but there's still a minor bug, the explosion animation is not shown :(
07:37<Gekko>meh.;
07:42<Chris82>hmmm I wonder if the original patch author ever tested his patch
07:42<Gekko>lol
07:42<Chris82>there's no word in the thread about the subtraction bug or a missing animation
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07:47<dihedral>Chris82: on demolishing a larger field is the explosion not just shown in the 4 corners of that field?
07:48<Chris82>yes but there's never an explosion
07:48<Chris82>also when I clear just one field there's no explosion shown, only the field is made brown
07:49<Chris82>I just update the animation code in the patch file, it's quite outdated when you compare it with trunk
07:51<dihedral>btw Chris82: SirkoZ was wondering if you would not like to include is smooth_economy patch
07:51<Chris82>what does it do?
07:51|-|Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB4D84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:51<Chris82>I am almost finished with fixing the current version then I can add new patches :)
07:52<dihedral>i'll get you a link, just a sec
07:52<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/smooth_economy_sz_v2-9_r9817_cut-down.patch
07:52<Chris82>I also want to include boekabarts grass growth patch as I find it extremely useful, but my brother needs to do the graphics first
07:52|-|Osai^zZz changed nick to Osai
07:52[~]_Mist_ wishes there was a patch where you could chose loading-algorithm per-station
07:53<_Mist_>because I have a few goods stations where the improved loading algorythm can't keep up
07:53<dihedral>turn off the (load) order
07:54<_Mist_>really?
07:54<Chris82>dihedral: The patch you sent me will increase industry production by a small chance when over 60% is transported
07:54<Chris82>or is there something else it does?
07:55<dihedral>it fixes the fact that 24/30 production industries can increase
07:55<dihedral>sorry
07:55<dihedral>the fact is that they cannot increase
07:56<@peter1138>no, it totally changes the algorithm
07:56<Chris82>ah ic never noticed that :) I think it will be easy to include this patch as it has no effect on savegames I think
07:56<dihedral>tha patch makes sure that any industry has a chance to increase if trasport is appropriate
07:57<Gekko>Chris82: fund new town patch, seen it?
07:57<Chris82>Yes, but I don't like this functionality
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07:57<Gekko>why
07:57<Chris82>I primarily want new functionanility and realism. No "cheat" patches.
07:57<Chris82>*functionality
07:57<_Mist_>dihedral: thanks, that and saturating the circuit with trains really did the trick, awesome :)
07:57<Gekko>cheat...? lol
07:58<Gekko>it costs $25,000,000
07:58<Chris82>"cheat" != cheat... I know it's not really a cheat, but it's nothing that company can do in real life, i.e. fund a town
07:58<Gekko>thats not really a cheat
07:58<Gekko>no
07:58<Gekko>found a town
07:58<Chris82>25m is really nothing late in the game :D one ICE train costs that much already when you play with DB Set XL
07:58<Gekko>miners used to
07:59<@peter1138>25m + inflation is a lot :)
07:59<Gekko>companies make villagbes for workers
07:59<orudge>dihedral... I'm here now :p
07:59<Chris82>so in 2000 how much will it approx cost?
07:59<Chris82>with inflation on
07:59<@peter1138>depends when you started, heh
07:59<Gekko>1950
08:00<Chris82>let's say 1925
08:00<Chris82>and can you found unlimited towns or only 1 ?
08:00<Gekko>1950
08:00<Gekko>unlim
08:01<Chris82>Hmmm I don't know what to think of the patch. It's not really one of the features I am very much looking into.
08:01<Chris82>In which situations did you found towns in your game?
08:01<Chris82>i.e. what did you use the feature for
08:01<Gekko>small maps with 4 towns
08:02<Gekko>added onev
08:02<Gekko>128x128
08:02<Gekko>or making a hub in a 2048x2048 with towns on low
08:03<Chris82>well hubs generate themselves when you do smart with passenger transports
08:03<Chris82>with towns on low you can get 40k + cities anyway
08:03<Chris82>no need for hubs in such a situation imho
08:03<Gekko>i know
08:03<Chris82>well I'll sleep a night about it ;)
08:03<Gekko>i mean a hub in the central sense
08:04<Gekko>middle of island
08:04<Gekko>junction
08:04<Chris82>dihedreal: Is there a thread on the forum for this industry patch?
08:12<dihedral>orudge: i asked my boss and got permission to add a second server of my own :-D
08:13<dihedral>but he is thinking of moving away from the flatrate we have!
08:13<dihedral>Chris82: there is not, sorry
08:14<Chris82>no problem just asking because I linked all the patch threads in the Integrated thread I made
08:15<dihedral>Chris82: how well are you at keeping up to date?
08:15<dihedral>let me rephrase that
08:15<@TrueBrain>flatrate is overrated :)
08:15<dihedral>how are you doing with keeping up to date
08:15<dihedral>TrueBrain - nice to see you :-)
08:16<dihedral>TrueBrain: flaterate is not everrated if its a 100Mbit one :-)
08:16<@TrueBrain>will be the last time you do in the next 12 days, so enjoy it :p
08:16<dihedral>shall do :-)
08:16<dihedral>i was wondering yesterday why svn was not being servered over apache + dav_svn
08:16<Chris82>Yay! Explosion animation works also now :D so the patch is fixed now
08:17<Chris82>dihedral: I am at revision r10338 with my integrated build and savegames from HEAD Revision a few older nightlies and 0.5.2 work now
08:17<Chris82>I think I'll publish a new version of the .diff file tonight in the thread
08:18<dihedral>add binaries :-)
08:18<Chris82>I can only compile Windows binaries
08:19<Phazorx>TrueBrain: is it possible to have dbl click selectable action on vehicles?
08:19<Chris82>well but on the other hand, those who don't play on Windows know how to compile themselves in most cases :D
08:19<hylje>its not like compiling is hard
08:19<hylje>windows just makes it more complicated
08:19<dihedral>Phazorx: does it not work already?
08:19<Phazorx>dihedral: not selectable
08:20<hylje>imo windows makes a lot of things more complicated than necessary
08:20<dihedral>TrueBrain ??
08:20<Phazorx>and as i recall it dbl click isnt that different from single click now
08:20<Chris82>hylje: Yeah compiling OpenTTD on Linux is probably much faster since the tools are normally there already and no need for a complicated setup like VC Express
08:21<dihedral>there are linux "users" - the same way as there are for windows
08:21<hylje>the tools are not always there, but easily obtainable
08:21<Sacro>dihedral: hardly the same way
08:21<@TrueBrain>bah, my computer crashed :(
08:21<Sacro>linux does it properley
08:21<dihedral>Sacro: have seen them , had to help them!!
08:21<@TrueBrain>dihedral: flatrate of 100 mbit is much more expensive then a normal 95% rating :)
08:21<dihedral>had a collegue that was one :-D
08:22<dihedral>TrueBrain: any specific reason you server svn over svnserve and not apache2 +dav_svn?
08:22<@TrueBrain>why would it?
08:22<@TrueBrain>apache sucks
08:22<dihedral>lol - way more power on permissions
08:22<@TrueBrain>reminds me I still need to get ride of apache and install lighttpd
08:22<Phazorx>apache is bloated
08:22<@TrueBrain>lol, that is so not true :)
08:22<@TrueBrain>I can control permissions on all levels via svnserve
08:23<Phazorx>and lighty rules
08:23<@TrueBrain>(okay, it is a modified svnserve, but still)
08:23<dihedral>apache is pretty usefull if you make use of the available features
08:23<hylje>*cough* svnserve is apache
08:23<@TrueBrain>apache might be useful, but it sucks
08:23<@TrueBrain>hylje: bull
08:24<dihedral>hylje: in what dream is that?
08:24<@TrueBrain>apache is: 1) slow, 2) bloat, 3) more holls than my cheese, 4) high CPU + memory demands
08:24<hylje>it builds on the apache portable runtime, so it's pretty much apache
08:24<hylje>not httpd though
08:24<Chris82>what webserver do you use instead?
08:24<dihedral>TrueBrain: my server is running apache2 very happily
08:24<Chris82>mine is running IIS6 happily *ggg* :p
08:24<dihedral>Chris82: phphttpd
08:24<Phazorx>dihedral: can it handle 15000r/s ?
08:24<dihedral>Chris82: yuk
08:24<hylje>phphttpd? wut?
08:25<orudge>lighttpd is good
08:25<Chris82>never heard of that one either
08:25<@TrueBrain>hylje: it depends on apr, which is not httpd!
08:25<dihedral>Phazorx: try it if you like
08:25<orudge>Gandalf struggles to find anything to do most of the time :p
08:25<@TrueBrain>dihedral: apache can run very happily, just lighttpd is much better :)
08:25<Phazorx>dihedral: i did a lot of testing... we choose lighty
08:25<Chris82>anyway are you sure you need a 100 mb flat? There are plenty of server including thousands of gb of traffic
08:25<Phazorx>for our cases it was more applicable and farm more scalable
08:25<Sacro>orudge: :(){ :|:& };: should keep it occupied
08:25<Chris82>I have a very active site and I only reach 800 gb a month
08:26<@TrueBrain>Chris82: doesn't really mean anything ;)
08:26<Gekko>only
08:26<dihedral>Chris82: my server is not the only one on that line
08:26<@TrueBrain>I know sites that use 1.4 TiB a month that are really active, and some that use 0.2 GiB, and still are very active
08:26<Chris82>800 gb is not much, my internet traffic at home is 400 gb a month already
08:26<@TrueBrain>activity is not really meaningful
08:26<Phazorx>TrueBrain: any back to dbl clicking - can you please make a selector for which info tab is shown upon dbl click?
08:26<Chris82>yeah I meant it's active and has large downloads 500+ MB big
08:26<Gekko>i get 30gb month if lucky?
08:27<Gekko>?.
08:27<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: feel free to create it :)
08:27<dihedral>+ webtraffic is not the only traffic that counts
08:27<Phazorx>TrueBrain: havent you done most of it already ? :o)
08:27<Chris82>Gekko: All depends on how fast your connection is, I use Telekom VDSL which is pretty fast
08:27<dihedral>TrueBrain: your smooth_economy patch
08:27<Chris82>I love the 5 MBit upload at home, that helps a lot
08:27<@TrueBrain>http://paste.openttd.org/124 <- my home connection usage
08:27<dihedral>TrueBrain: does not work for 24/30 prod ind.
08:28<Gekko>i got 1500kbps
08:28<Gekko>best i can get
08:28<@TrueBrain>dihedral: as industries shouldn't be able to drop to that level via smooth-economy
08:28<orudge>Chris82: where do you live?
08:28<Chris82>Berlin
08:28<dihedral>TrueBrain: i found tons of industries at that level
08:28<dihedral>TrueBrain: even some at 18 !!
08:28<Chris82>There are VDSL packages with 25/5 and 50/10 MBit available here
08:29<orudge>:o
08:29<orudge>nice.
08:29<dihedral>TrueBrain: either starting at that level or dropping to!
08:29<Gekko>wtf i vdsl
08:29<Gekko>is
08:29[~]orudge is on what's supposed to be 8Mbps down, 448kbps up (ADSL)
08:29<Chris82>and I also get my TV over the internet with VDSL so I don't need to pay extra for cable TV
08:29<@TrueBrain>dihedral: dropping in smooth-economy isn't possible
08:29<@TrueBrain>only in non-smooth
08:29<orudge>however, I don't tend to get more than 4Mbps or so
08:29<orudge>maybe 6Mbps if I'm lucky
08:29<Chris82>yeah that's normal, my brother has 16 MBit Chello and he never gets more than 12 MBit on his connection
08:30<Chris82>if you're not using one of the monopoly companies like Telekom for internet access you never reach the advertised speeds
08:30<Chris82>only in very few cases
08:30<@TrueBrain>I have 100 mbit, and I reach it too :)
08:30<Chris82>also I only have around 200 meters copper cable before I am connected to the fiber glass backbone in Berlin
08:31<dihedral>we have over 20 servers sharing a 100Mbit flat
08:31<Gekko>terd
08:31<dihedral>direct fiber to the provider :-)
08:31<dihedral>8core
08:31<Chris82>hrhr :D
08:31<Chris82>that's nice
08:31<Gekko> /massignore due to jealousy
08:31<Chris82>lol well I bet you pay a lot less for your connection than we do
08:32<Gekko>no...
08:32<Gekko>sadly
08:32<Chris82>how much do you pay?
08:32<Chris82>if I may ask
08:32<Gekko>$70 / month
08:32<Gekko>AU
08:32<Chris82>=O *shocked*
08:32<Gekko>12gb capped
08:32<@TrueBrain>I pay $10 a month :)
08:32<Gekko>6.4kb/s after the cap.
08:32<Chris82>VDSL25 is 34,99 EUR a month
08:32<Chris82>and that is extremely expensive
08:32<Chris82>you can have 6 MBit flats for 10 EUR as well
08:32<Gekko>fuck Australia's monopolies
08:33<Chris82>no wonder Australian servers are so slow :p
08:33<Gekko>im moving to germany when i learn bggerman
08:33<Gekko>german*
08:33<dihedral>1800 euro / month
08:33<Chris82>nah go to Sweden or Japan
08:33<Chris82>they have really cheap 100 MBit flats
08:33<Gekko>make me.
08:33<Gekko>lol
08:33<Gekko>i like the country
08:34<dihedral>Gekko: make: *** No rule to make target `me'. Stop.
08:34<Gekko>stfu
08:34<dihedral>:-)
08:34<dihedral>love you too man :D
08:35<Chris82>dihedral: What is an easy way to check if the smooth economy patch is working?
08:35<Gekko>Chris82: hows becoming a permanent resident of Germany go?
08:35<Chris82>Gekko: I am Austrian, I am not even German but by being from the EU it's no problem
08:35<Phazorx>Chris82: define working
08:35<Chris82>working = no bugs
08:35<dihedral>Chris82: play - you will see :-)
08:35<Chris82>intended behaviour etc.
08:36<orudge>It was nice having a 100Mbps connection at uni
08:36<Gekko>Chris82: I mean for me
08:36<orudge>I think the most I ever pushed through it personally was about 60Mbps
08:36<Gekko>from Aus.
08:36<Chris82>I had to implement it manually since the .diff file is outdated, so I just wanna make sure I did it right
08:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10339 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Fix r10311: if you fix your own name, at least also update your description ;)
08:36<Chris82>Gekko: Come here as an exchange student
08:36<Gekko>lol
08:36<Gekko>how?
08:36<Chris82>do you study something?
08:37<dihedral>Chris82: you dont really wanna do that
08:37<Gekko>im in high school right now
08:37<Gekko>lol
08:37<Chris82>well then maybe come here and make your final exams at a German school
08:37<Gekko>why?
08:37<Chris82>then it will be easy for you to live here :p
08:37<Gekko>lol
08:37<Phazorx>Chris82: it is working in most cases, thtere are 2 problems i really dont like tho
08:37<Gekko>hard to get in an Aus university though
08:38<Gekko>>.<
08:38<Chris82>Phazorx: Which problems?
08:38<Chris82>I want to go to the computer science faculty in Brisbane for an exchange year maybe
08:38<Chris82>Talked to a student from there who is at my uni right now
08:38<Gekko>Brisbane? eww
08:38<Gekko>UNSW man
08:38<Chris82>UNSW ?
08:38<Phazorx>Chris82: nature of randomization over time is more inclined to decrease production and if production is lower than certain limit it might never increase
08:38<dihedral>TrueBrain: i shall check but i am pretty much sure that smooth_economy is on
08:39<Gekko>Yes, University of New South Wales
08:39[~]dihedral checks
08:39<Gekko>Queensland has crap unis.
08:39<dihedral>it's on
08:39<Chris82>Phazorx: Hmmm I thought so already, since some industries will have <60% transported for 100 years in some games
08:39<Phazorx>Chris82: huh?
08:40<@TrueBrain>((RandomRange(50) + 10) * old_prod) >> 8 <- old_prod = 4, gives max: 60 * 4 / 256 = 0
08:40<@TrueBrain>so new_prod can never go < 4
08:40<Chris82>well in that patch production decreases when transportation is <60%
08:40<Gekko>maths whore
08:40<Chris82>it can't increase when nothing is transported imho
08:41<dihedral>TrueBrain: funny that - i have seen in the game i host an ind with really low prod
08:41<Phazorx>when nothing is transported it has equal chances of increasin or decreasing
08:41<Chris82>ah ic
08:41<@TrueBrain>dihedral: possible, if you disable smooth-economy
08:41<Phazorx>but since inc/dec are percentage based - it will decrease more
08:41<SmatZ>as you are talking about production problems ... when something has too high production (set by a cheat, like 2 040 000 litres of oil), it may sometimes disappear
08:42<Chris82>I will let a game run on super speed and see how low production I get
08:42<Phazorx>in 500 years all will be minimum
08:43<dihedral>TrueBrain: it aint disabled!!!
08:43<Gekko>lol 500
08:43<@TrueBrain>dihedral: then it aint possible, math-wise
08:43<dihedral>TrueBrain: i shall make screen shots and give them to you when you are back
08:43<Gekko>make bthem
08:43<Gekko>lol
08:43<dihedral>aint possible and aint happening are 2 different things
08:43<Phazorx>transporting some icreasing chances for growth, but it doesn tlook like it scales with rating
08:43<Gekko>take them
08:44<@peter1138>i've had production of 12 before...
08:44<dihedral>scmooth_economy?
08:44<dihedral>-c
08:44<@TrueBrain>oh, wait, it of course is possible if you have a big drop at once
08:44<dihedral>well -
08:44<@TrueBrain>no, not possbiel, math-wise
08:44<Chris82>Gekko: I wouldn't lol at 500 years
08:45<dihedral>to get to the end of the story
08:45<dihedral>they never increased
08:45<Phazorx>TrueBrain: think about this one, 2 events hapeing one increase and one decreases for same percentage
08:45<Chris82>I had games where I played that long and I love the possibility to play that long
08:45<Gekko>lol
08:45<Gekko>play a map with 4 cities
08:45<Phazorx>say initial is 100 and factir is 10% in both cases
08:45<@TrueBrain>dihedral: it is known that any industry < 32 will never increase
08:45<Gekko>for 300 years
08:45|-|egladil [~egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:45<Gekko>map is gone
08:45<dihedral>TrueBrain: :-) well then :-)
08:46<Gekko>cant build any more stations
08:46<Chris82>I know but you can decrease and limit city growth
08:46<dihedral>TrueBrain: i though you would want to make them increase :-)
08:46<Chris82>I thought the <32 never increases was fixed with one of the last nightlies?
08:46<Chris82>or was that just my imagination :D
08:46<Gekko>cant fit intercontinental hub
08:46<@TrueBrain>dihedral: just no industry should ever beable to hit any value < 32
08:46<dihedral>Chris82: that was for 34
08:46<Phazorx>in case of icrease being before decrease 100+10=110; 110-11 = 99; decrease before increase: 100-10=90;90+9 = 99
08:47<@TrueBrain>but there you go, this enforces that rule
08:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10340 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make sure no industry production can ever hit < 32 with smooth_economy
08:47<Gekko>hmm
08:48<Gekko>TrueBrain: how can i try to get something added to trunk?
08:49<@TrueBrain>http://bugs.openttd.org/
08:49<dihedral>TrueBrain: thanks :-D
08:49|-|Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
08:49<Gekko>bugs >.>
08:49<Chris82>hmmm I just created a 2048x2048 map with many towns and industries and 40% of all industries are sawmills, factories and steel mills
08:49<Gekko>odd lol
08:50<Chris82>I think that's a little much :D
08:50<Gekko>Chris82: that annoys me
08:50<Phazorx>TrueBrain: is it possible to balance math a bit so overtime decrease of production is not greater than increase?
08:50<Gekko>excess factories, not enough mats
08:50<dihedral>Chris82: i think you might be right
08:50<Chris82>I am running at highspeed lowest prod right now is 31
08:50<dihedral>Chris82: to be honest i never used that patch :-)
08:51<Chris82>that one just increased to 35 and 70
08:51|-|MarkSlap [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has joined #openttd
08:51<Chris82>I am running unpatched r10339 right now
08:51<@TrueBrain>31... 35.... 70... production is always a multipler of 8
08:51<@TrueBrain>so I truely doubt those values :)
08:52<Gekko>doubt away.
08:52<Gekko>botched code?
08:52<Chris82>uhm, there are lots of industries that have 35
08:52<Chris82>that's no multiplier of 8
08:52<@peter1138>it depends on the combination of smooth ecomony and the difficulty setting
08:52<@TrueBrain>peter1138: it does?
08:52<@TrueBrain>funny
08:52<@TrueBrain>maybe even stupid :)
08:53<@TrueBrain>but that even might explain what dihedral was bitching about :p
08:53<Gekko>what about "custom" then
08:53<Chris82>btw is it intended that ~80% of all industries with prod <50 are iron ore mines?
08:53<@peter1138>ChangeIndustryProduction() is non-smooth
08:54<@peter1138>ExtChangeIndustryProduction() is smoot
08:54<@peter1138>+h
08:54|-|MarkMc [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:54<Gekko>smoot haha
08:54<Gekko>very smooth peter1138.
08:55<Chris82>3 years so far and 32 tonnes is the smallest production I've seen
08:55<Chris82>it doesn't stay there tho
08:55<Chris82>so no problems so far
08:55<Chris82>I'll eat a Pizza and check when I'm back :D
08:55<@TrueBrain>you just said the lowest value was 31...
08:55<@TrueBrain>but okay
08:55<Chris82>ah right, but that 31 increased to 144 in the meantime
08:56<@TrueBrain>the chance of any industry sticking at production of 32 is 1 out of 55
08:56<Chris82>that's pretty small
08:56<@TrueBrain>yup
08:56<@TrueBrain>intended :)
08:56<Chris82>only one 32 industry right now out of a few thousand
08:56<dihedral>TrueBrain: i had an industry that was stuck at 32 for more than 10 years
08:56<@TrueBrain>that sounds about how it is intended to be
08:57<Phazorx>cooper game atm has few forests, which are being exported for 200 years but maintain 32
08:57<Gekko>3 forests spawning next to each other in one decade, chances of that?
08:57<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: you need to run the latest nightly for it to do anything :)
08:57<Chris82>I find it funny though that almost all low production industries are iron ore mines
08:57<@TrueBrain>it really is a randomizer, independant of industry type
08:57<@TrueBrain>so bad luck
08:58<dihedral>is it in any possible for an industry to start below 32?
08:58<Chris82>hmmm now I have ~20 prod(32) iron ore mines, then around 30 prod(35) woods lol
08:58<Phazorx>i'm just stating that were were grounds for questioning behavior
08:58<Gekko>i had 3 forests spawn next to each ofther in one decade, what were the chances of it?
08:59<@TrueBrain>Gekko: calculate the chance!
08:59<dihedral>Gekko is repeating himself :-)
08:59<@TrueBrain>dihedral: will be foced to be at least 32 in the next update round
08:59<Phazorx>and really math should be better balanced having chance of being stable rather than slowly decreasing
08:59<dihedral>now that sounds like some nice idea TrueBrain
08:59<Gekko>until i get an answer... >.>
08:59<dihedral>Gekko: chances are low yes
08:59<Gekko>lol
09:00<dihedral>like my little nephew... shesh
09:00<Gekko>was fun.
09:00<@TrueBrain>dihedral: it isn't an idea, it is what is happening in latest SVN
09:00<Chris82>hmmm most 32 industries are stuck between 32 and 40
09:00<dihedral>TrueBrain: you're a star
09:00<dihedral>Chris82: that is due to the length of the month :-D
09:01<Chris82>ahh
09:01<@TrueBrain>no, that is because there is an equal chance of increasing and decreasing when you do not transpart goods
09:01<Phazorx>not equal
09:01<@TrueBrain>when you start transporting, the increase chance increases
09:01<@TrueBrain>they are equal
09:01<Phazorx>it is percentage based i just shown that
09:01<Phazorx>TrueBrain: think about this one, 2 events hapeing one increase and one decreases for same percentage
09:02<Phazorx>in case of icrease being before decrease 100+10=110; 110-11 = 99; decrease before increase: 100-10=90;90+9 = 99
09:02<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: let me tell you again: they are equal
09:02<Chris82>buw why must production be a multiplier of 8? I mean there are hundreads of industries that are not in my test game right now
09:02<Chris82>but*
09:03<Phazorx>TrueBrain: numbers appear equal but since you base it on relative value it will decrease over time
09:03<Chris82>35, 50, 63, 70 etc.
09:03<@TrueBrain>Chris82: internally industry_rate is stored in a small value, like 4 means '32'
09:03<@TrueBrain>I dunno how other numbers represent the game
09:03<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: either read the code, or believe what I am telling you; either way, you are wrong
09:03<Phazorx>TrueBrain: i read the code
09:03<Phazorx>you use percentage
09:03<@TrueBrain>then you clearly failed to read it correctly
09:04<Phazorx>heh of course...
09:04<dihedral>lol
09:04<Phazorx>it is basic math tho you should see my point
09:04[~]dihedral sympathizes with TrueBrain
09:04<@TrueBrain>(getting tired talking about industry production shit every time, everyone his own opinion about how it works and how not... blabla-woefwoef)
09:04<Chris82>well I can't find any real problem with industry production after 10 years fast forward :p
09:04<@TrueBrain>transport goods, industry increases, all that is important :)
09:04[~]Chris82 nods
09:05<Sacro>Maedhros: any chance of haiving a "Minumum recommended" timetable?
09:05<dihedral>TrueBrain: i'll change the topic for ya
09:05<dihedral>BUSH ROCKS
09:05<Sacro>dihedral: i prefer shaven
09:05<@TrueBrain>I smell a kick :p
09:05<Sacro>nah, Bjarni isn't here
09:05<Maedhros>Sacro: autofill will give you the time that each section actually takes
09:06<dihedral>TrueBrain: i said i was going to change the topic :-D
09:06<Sacro>Maedhros: yes, but when i alter it... i forget :(
09:06<@TrueBrain>Sacro: but DorpsGek is here
09:06<Sacro>Maedhros: and autofill doesn't take into account the return journy
09:06<Sacro>from A-B-C-D its fine
09:07<@TrueBrain>and Maedhros, it is a nice function :)
09:07<Sacro>but from D-A stopping at C and B, it fails :(
09:07<Sacro>ooh
09:07<Maedhros>it should work...
09:07<Sacro>but it shows me total time
09:07<Sacro>so i can simply shove that as the return time
09:07<Sacro>as its 50% distance
09:07<@TrueBrain>dihedral: next time you have an industry < 32, let me know, and save the savegame ;)
09:08<Sacro>hmm, it gets up to 31 days late on return
09:08<Chris82>just had a bank with 24 :D but it was before your commit
09:08<Sacro>but as the return is sceduled to take 39 days
09:08<Sacro>it catches up
09:09<dihedral>TrueBrain: i'll keep a savegame a screen shot and ... and... yeah
09:10<dihedral>TrueBrain: would do you think of being able to search for players? and keeping a top10 or something
09:10<dihedral>TrueBrain: website wise
09:10<hylje>would do you think?
09:10<hylje>lol, wut?
09:10<@TrueBrain>dihedral: I once implemented that
09:10<@TrueBrain>kept a top10 of performance and company values and stuff
09:10<@TrueBrain>history of a game
09:10<dihedral>TrueBrain: i would love to do that with OpenTTDLib
09:10<@TrueBrain>but... somewhere was a bug, and the DB was trashed from time to time
09:10<Sacro>its cheatable
09:10<@TrueBrain>so I gave up :)
09:11<@TrueBrain>Sacro: it was part of the idea to make the MS to authorize people with a password
09:11<@TrueBrain>and servers that could become authorized servers
09:11<@TrueBrain>(where you can only login with a valid login)
09:11<@TrueBrain>so you could ban people from the MS (of course you can always play in a non-authroized server)
09:11<@TrueBrain>so you can play tournaments and stuff
09:11<dihedral>TrueBrain: if i could keep a distinction between one game to another
09:12<@TrueBrain>just the online community was too small at that stage
09:12<Sacro>TrueBrain: ahh yes
09:12<@TrueBrain>might be fun though to revisit the idea
09:12<@TrueBrain>dihedral: you have enough information I think
09:12<Sacro>i considered implementing it myself
09:12<@TrueBrain>companies, start time, ...
09:12[~]Sacro grabs libopenttd
09:12<dihedral>TrueBrain: i was hoping to keep track of games
09:12<@TrueBrain>else ask Rubidium to extend the gameinfo with the generation seed
09:13<@TrueBrain>dihedral: define 'track'
09:13<Maedhros>Sacro: ah. that would be a bug...
09:13<Sacro>Maedhros: ah would it?
09:13<dihedral>TrueBrain: ./openttd executed - ottd genereates map, keeps timestamp of generation of mpa
09:13<Sacro>oh crap
09:13<Sacro>PLEASE DON'T RAIN
09:13<Sacro>OUR CITY IS ALREADY FLOODED
09:13<Gekko>lol
09:13<dihedral>ottd loads a savegame - ottd remembers the timestamp when the map was loaded
09:14<Sacro>looks like it's time for me to pack up and leavve
09:14<@TrueBrain>Sacro: good luck
09:14<@TrueBrain>dihedral: like that.. hmm.. not so easy to do
09:14<Sacro>TrueBrain: i'll need it
09:14<Sacro>its a wade to the main road
09:15<dihedral>TrueBrain: that way each game had a distrinct id!!
09:15<dihedral>TrueBrain: then making OpenTTDLib query the masterserver for available games
09:16<dihedral>TrueBrain: query all those games and write data to a database
09:16<@TrueBrain>no need to do it via OpenTTDLib
09:16<dihedral>if the game is over, archive data to save space
09:16<@TrueBrain>the MS can do it himself
09:16<@TrueBrain>but okay, we can assign a md5 for each game
09:16<@TrueBrain>randomly
09:16<@TrueBrain>should give enough randomness
09:16<dihedral>TrueBrain: the MS could do it
09:17|-|mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
09:17<dihedral>TrueBrain: but i was also thinking some admins might want to do that for all their games
09:17|-|helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd
09:17<@TrueBrain>dihedral: true
09:17<dihedral>TrueBrain: like the sandrabull*** games
09:17<Gekko>lol
09:17<Gekko>***
09:17<dihedral>4 starts takes too long to type
09:17<Gekko>lol
09:18<Gekko>lazy boy
09:18<dihedral>yeah - that's me
09:18<Gekko>sandrabullock.co.uk
09:18<Chris82>Broken savegame - unsupported game wtf?
09:18<Chris82>gamma*
09:18<Gekko>thats onscreen kbd, pda
09:18<dihedral>TrueBrain: + it would save openttd.org a lot of database work
09:18<dihedral>and space
09:18|-|helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:18<Chris82>dihedral: What's up with my games?
09:19<dihedral>whats up?
09:19<dihedral>what you do?
09:19<Chris82><dihedral> TrueBrain: like the sandrabull*** games < I was referring to that sentence
09:19<Chris82>as you were obviously saying something about my games :p
09:20<@TrueBrain>dihedral: lol, space enough, don't worry :)
09:20<dihedral>Chris82: i thought it to be less embarassing then to admit that i did not know how to spell that name
09:20<Chris82>lol
09:20<@TrueBrain>dihedral: but I always wanted to make something to track games in a normal way
09:20<dihedral>Chris82: what do you think of OpenTTDLib for all your games??
09:20<@TrueBrain>but as people cheat a lot, it really needs some validation to make it fair and usable
09:21<dihedral>TrueBrain: only protected companies are taken into account
09:21<Chris82>well what I would need for my servers is something that the server only pauses on initial start until someone joins
09:21<Chris82>but then continues and not pauses again as soon as no one is in the game
09:22<@TrueBrain>but okay, we need a good model
09:22<dihedral>Chris82: min_players
09:22<@TrueBrain>would be fun to see leagues or what ever in OpenTTD
09:22<dihedral>TrueBrain: i'll do some thinking over the next 12 days
09:22<@TrueBrain>ladder-games :)
09:22<Chris82>yeah min_players 1 doesn't work
09:22<Chris82>then the game pauses on start
09:22<@TrueBrain>I need to finish my head-to-head idea...
09:22<Chris82>but also in year 2048 when no one is in the game it pauses
09:22<Chris82>and the game will never restart as it should
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09:22<Chris82>no one joins in 2048 anymore
09:22<@TrueBrain>and I need to replace the console with SQ, so people like Chris82 can be made happy :)
09:23<Chris82>:D
09:23<dihedral>SQ?
09:23<@TrueBrain>Squirrel
09:23<@TrueBrain>so you can script yourself all you want :)
09:23<dihedral>nice
09:23<Chris82>hmmm Longer Finance History breaks savegame support :(
09:23<dihedral>something like a plugin?
09:24<Chris82>*digging code*
09:24<@TrueBrain>dihedral: you know we have network_server scripts?
09:24<dihedral>yes - use them
09:24<@TrueBrain>small piece of code that are executed on certain events
09:24<dihedral>scripts/op_server_connect.scr ??
09:24<@TrueBrain>yeah
09:24<@TrueBrain>but the script is rather limited to the console language
09:24<dihedral>but that is not very powerfull
09:24<@TrueBrain>which is kind of crappy
09:24<@TrueBrain>so, I want to replace it with Squirrel
09:24<dihedral>would be nice to have arguments passed
09:24<@TrueBrain>allow many more commands
09:25<@TrueBrain>so Chris82 can do: if (date == "1920-01-01" && players != 0) unpause()
09:25<@TrueBrain>which solves his problem :)
09:25<dihedral>i shall have a look at squirrel - i dont know it atm
09:25<Chris82>perfect :)
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09:25<dihedral>TrueBrain: that sounds amazing
09:25<dihedral>really really good
09:25<@TrueBrain>SQ is already added in NoAI branch
09:26<dihedral>if then an argument could be passed?
09:26<@TrueBrain>and if you looked at NoAI, you know how powerful it is :)
09:26<dihedral>i.e clients nick uppon join passed to on_server_connect.scr
09:26<@TrueBrain>most likely it means removing all those scripts blabla
09:26<@TrueBrain>but some event system
09:27<@TrueBrain>but dunno yet what is the best way
09:27<@TrueBrain>we will see
09:27<@TrueBrain>but the idea is to make autopilot possible in OpenTTD itself
09:27<@TrueBrain>instead of an external application
09:27<@TrueBrain>or at least make it more easier :)
09:27<dihedral>TrueBrain: is there already a script executed on yearly bases?
09:28<dihedral>i cannot remember
09:28<@TrueBrain>don't think so
09:28<@TrueBrain>but okay, just some things I would like to add some time in OpenTTD
09:28<@TrueBrain>but now, now I am going to put music on my iPOD :)
09:28<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30474
09:28<@TrueBrain>and then, I get some food, viist some friends, go to sleep, get my car, and get the hell out of here :)
09:29<@TrueBrain>so, have fun all, enjoy yourself :)
09:29<dihedral>enjoy your holiday TrueBrain
09:29<@TrueBrain>tnx, will do
09:29<dihedral>wanna see some photos when you get back :-P
09:29<dihedral>"what does a nerd do on vacation" :-D
09:29<Gekko>PalmTTD woo
09:30<dihedral>-nerd +geek :-P
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09:33<Chris82>hmmm adding a Patch with Flag "S" breaks trunk compatibility but doesn't break 0.5.2 compatbility
09:33<Chris82>when I add a patch ith Flag "0" it works fine with trunk as well, but the patch isn't supposed to be a server setting
09:34<Chris82>any workarounds or ideas?
09:35<Gekko>a shotgun
09:35<Chris82>huh?
09:35<dihedral>Gekko: yeah - point it towards yourself
09:35<dihedral>:-D
09:35<dihedral>j/k
09:35<Gekko>tad hard
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09:36<Chris82>is there a reason that no single patch uses flag N ?
09:37<Gekko>wtf is N.
09:37<Chris82>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Patches/AddPatchOption
09:38<Chris82>flags and guiflags
09:38<Maedhros>network only. i have a feeling end_date uses it
09:38<Chris82>uhm network only? I thought N is do not sync with network
09:38<Chris82>at least the wiki says no
09:39<Chris82>I want to add a patch that each player can set, but when I use flag S for this the patched version can't load trunk savegames anymore
09:39<Maedhros>ah, so it is
09:39<Gekko>sleep time, cya
09:39<Chris82>night
09:39<MeusH>goodnight
09:41<Maedhros>S should work for old savegames... can i see the how you're using it?
09:41<Chris82> SDT_CONDVAR(Patches, finance_history, SLE_UINT8, IN_CHRISIN_SINCE(70), SL_MAX_VERSION, S, 0, 3, 3, MAX_HISTORY, 1, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_FINANCE_HISTORY, NULL),
09:41<Chris82>all other patches are 0, 0 they work fine with trunk and 0.5.2 savegames, only this one is not working
09:42<Maedhros>since it's not saved, you shouldn't need to use SDT_CONDVAR - try using just SDT_VAR instead
09:42<Chris82>kk
09:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10341 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10236): Only update the timetable when leaving stations if this is a scheduled stop.
09:44<Maedhros>Sacro_: there you go, autofill (and timetabling in general) should work for return journeys now :)
09:44<Sacro_>oh cock
09:44[~]Sacro_ boots his laptop up *again*
09:46<Chris82>hmmm no making it SDT_VAR didn't help unfortunately
09:46<Chris82>I'll try N
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09:49<Chris82>nope doesn't help :(
09:52<Chris82>hmmm setting it to flag 0 doesn't help either
09:53<Chris82>there must be a general problem with this patch
09:53|-|MarkSlap [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:53<Sacro_>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbYwBuUadg
09:54<Sacro_>thats scary
09:54<Sacro_>it doesnt even dip under the railway bridge
09:54<Sacro_>must be about 15ft
09:55<dihedral>thats crazy
09:56<Sacro_>yeah
09:56<Sacro_>its about 5 mins from here
09:56<Sacro_>that same railway passes my house
09:57<hylje>:o
09:58<Sacro_>just checked outside, its only about a foot deep
10:00<dihedral>double click on server = join
10:00<dihedral>double click on company = join
10:00<dihedral>? ;-)
10:00<dihedral>what say you?
10:00<hylje>if there's only one company and the server has one company max, automagically join that company
10:00<hylje>yes
10:01<dihedral>hylje: one might want to spectate
10:01<hylje>nooooooo
10:01<hylje>:<
10:02<dihedral>"one", not hylje !!
10:02|-|mikl [~mikl@0x55514de1.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
10:02<hylje>what
10:02<dihedral>"one" might want to spectate
10:02<dihedral>and not
10:02<dihedral>hylje might want to spectate
10:03<MeusH>lol
10:03<hylje>fine
10:12<Chris82>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32698 Integrated Version 2 :D now loads 0.5.2 and trunk savegames. Yay!
10:12<Chris82>Thanks to the support of you all :D
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10:15<dihedral>Chris82: i wanna see you use OpenTTDLib with all your games :-)
10:18<Chris82>:D I'll test it, I first gotta do some math exercices for tomorrow now though
10:21<dihedral>;-P
10:21<dihedral>enjoy
10:21[~]dihedral is falling asleep at work!!
10:22<dihedral>last 30 mins!!
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10:37[~]dihedral has only 20mins left of his woking day
10:37<hylje>woking day
10:38<hylje>is it tasty?
10:38<dihedral>ops
10:38<dihedral>yeah
10:38<dihedral>eh
10:38<dihedral>i am a cheff....
10:38[~]dihedral coughs
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10:52<NukeBuster>hmm... why is clearing land being done in landscape.cpp and levelling land in cmd_clear.cpp?
10:53<NukeBuster>seems both files are doing the opposite then?
10:53<NukeBuster>of their file names...
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10:53<Maedhros>clear in this case refers to clear tiles (grass, rocks, etc) rather than the action of clearing them
10:54<blathijs>NukeBuster: cmd_clear doesn't refere to "clearing land", but to "cl...
10:54<blathijs>yest, that
10:54<blathijs>:-)
10:54<Maedhros>:)
10:54<NukeBuster>ok, thanks for clearing that one up :)
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10:58<NukeBuster>anyway... i gave the diagonal land patch a go... fixed a few minor bugs and upped it to latest rev... see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=601470#601470
11:00<dihedral>NukeBuster: you might wanna chat with Chris82 :-)
11:01<dihedral>he did some patching of that too
11:01|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0EF2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:01<dihedral>anyhow - i am on my way home now
11:01<dihedral>cu guys in about an hour :-)
11:01<dihedral>quit
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11:02<NukeBuster>Chris82 at the keyboard?
11:04<Chris82>yes
11:04<Chris82>doing maths exercices tho :p
11:05<Chris82>ah ic you fixed the diagonal patch
11:05<Chris82>what have you done to achive it?
11:05<Chris82>I only replaced the explosion animation code with trunk code and then there was one line of code duplicated within a complex if clause
11:06<Chris82>which caused the subtract money bug when there is no money
11:06<NukeBuster>i placed the addcost command after de actual do command...
11:06<Chris82>yeah that was the problem
11:07<NukeBuster>same happened with clearing..
11:07<Chris82>yup terraform and demolish both had the bug
11:08<NukeBuster>Hmm.... wondering about one thing though...
11:08<Chris82>good so we didn't find a different solution :) makes me confident it's the right solution :D
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11:08<NukeBuster>i'm not sure what fixed the level entire map thingie...
11:09<Chris82>I think that is handled by trunk code anyway, it's not part of the patch iirc
11:09<NukeBuster>well... it was only possible while pressing ctrl
11:09<NukeBuster>not whet levelling a rectangle
11:09<NukeBuster>*when
11:10<Chris82>oh hmmm, well I couldn't reproduce that error in my build so I guess it's not here
11:10<NukeBuster>hmm... strange...
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11:11<NukeBuster>i hit that every time i tried it...
11:12<NukeBuster>hmm... i didn't fix it...
11:12<Chris82>what the...
11:12<NukeBuster>try selecting a tile with water
11:12<Chris82>I just randomly got the error
11:12<Chris82>but can't repro it ?!?
11:12<NukeBuster>and then ctrl-dragging it in to the land...
11:13<Chris82>I ctrl-flattened a huge area of land which subtracted money
11:13<NukeBuster>nou i've got -1,481,138
11:13<Chris82>although I got the error message that I don't have enough money
11:13<NukeBuster>but i know whats missing
11:13<Chris82>but when I tried it again right afterwards, I got the error and no money was subtracted
11:14<NukeBuster>it' this...
11:14<NukeBuster>i think
11:14<Chris82>ahhhh ok I figured it out
11:14<NukeBuster>money.AddCost(-ret.GetCost());
11:14<Chris82>it only occurs when you have >0 money
11:14<Chris82>when you have <0 money the error handling works
11:14<NukeBuster>is missing with the diagonal part...
11:14<Chris82>but when you have >0 money it just flattens the complete land and subtracts the cost
11:15<NukeBuster>but i'm not sure what it precisely does
11:15<Chris82>well it checks if there is money available to do the action you want
11:15<NukeBuster>gehe...
11:15<NukeBuster>so it's the right line :)
11:15<Chris82>and apparently this check is not implemented for diagonal levelling
11:15<NukeBuster>:)
11:15<NukeBuster>i thought i fixed it yesterday...
11:16<NukeBuster>apparently i forgot to add it in my clean version
11:16<Chris82>I can't fix it right now do, have to finish maths first :p
11:16<Chris82>so I'll look into it later
11:16<NukeBuster>i'll up a new patch...
11:16<Chris82>cool thx
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11:21<NukeBuster>ok, it is fixed now...
11:21<NukeBuster>making the diff
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11:24<UnderBuilder>a question: when new map array comes in, will be there a locomotion-style bridges building system?
11:25<@Belugas>there is a new map array coming in??
11:25<Ailure>there was
11:25<Ailure>;P
11:25<@peter1138>another one :D
11:26<@peter1138>an m8?
11:26<@Belugas>hehe:)
11:26<Rubidium>_mee ;)
11:26<@Belugas>lol
11:26<Rubidium>or maybe _yam
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11:27<@Belugas>_yama maybe?
11:28<UnderBuilder>the new map arrays looks like dead
11:28<@Belugas>UnderBuilder, there is no map array renewal coming in. We do not work on it, nor will be in the short term futur
11:28<NukeBuster>What about multilane bridges?
11:29<@Belugas>it appears dead because our current way of doing seems to be adequate, for now
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11:29<UnderBuilder>then how will be done subways then?
11:29<@Belugas>not now for sure...
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11:30<@Belugas>we might eventually work on it, but it's not on the horizon yet
11:30<hylje>platform bridges would be adequately kewl while we wait for that
11:30<Rubidium>a new and flexible map array has a long list of dependencies that noone works on at the moment
11:30<hylje>although they need newish map array
11:31<@Belugas>right now, the map array knows what is on the ground, no matter how high the ground is
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11:31<@Belugas>going undergroud or upperground means a lot more data then what is actually available
11:32<NukeBuster>it is not possible to ad a z axis to the array?
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11:32<@Belugas>not currently, no
11:32<@Belugas>and simply a Z will not suffice
11:33<Rubidium>NukeBuster: adding a z-axis to a flat array doesn't solve your problem
11:33<Rubidium>and in that sense, it already stores the z or the tile
11:33<@Belugas>you'll need to make the array a pile of tiles for each coodinate
11:33<Rubidium>but it can only have one z per tile
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11:34<@Belugas>but let say we are in a good, very good position to work on it, since all the map array references are done with accessors
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11:34<@Belugas>thus, changing the underneath structure has been made easier
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11:35<hylje>hmm
11:35<@Belugas>although it does not mean we should stick with the current structure...
11:35<hylje>flexible map array, as in somewhat arbitrary extensions to the flat map at certain bind points..
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11:40<dihedral>hello
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11:48<Wolf01>hello
11:48<dannys9>Hi guys, I'm trying to work on a window layout manager. The code fails to compile as soon as I include window.h, MinGW always shows me pages full of stupid error messages (as "order.h: OrderID does not name a type") for all headers included by window.h. I can't imagine what's wrong. There's just a function declared as "void PlaceWidgets(const Widget *wid, char *layout, uint16 &width, uint16 &height) { }". Can anyone help, please?
11:50<spexter_>oops
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10342 /trunk/src/lang/ (21 files): (log message trimmed)
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-26 18:48:16
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 3 fixed by WhiteRabbit (3)
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 17 fixed by tucalipe (17)
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 15 fixed, 10 changed by arnaullv (25)
11:50|-|spexter_ [~spexter@c-24-127-109-23.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!]
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed by Zr40 (9)
11:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1)
11:50<Smoovious>yes... it isn't a 'stupid error message', but actually a valid one...
11:52<Rubidium>dannys9: you need to include some header (don't know which one exactly) before you include window.h
11:56<dannys9>Yes, that's it. Needed to include openttd.h first. Thanks for your help!
11:58|-|redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A05E7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: quit]
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10343 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp:
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: Add documentation of functions and code-style fix.
11:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks of 45 degree patch for bringing it up
11:59<UnderBuilder>busy developers?
12:01<hylje>:o
12:01[~]peter1138 sits on his arse *all day*
12:01<@peter1138>stupid desk job :p
12:01<eekee>lol
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12:05<Chris82>tileh == SLOPE_STEEP | ComplementSlope(unsafe_slope[mode])) < warning: Check operator precedence for possible error; hrmpf
12:05<Chris82>how to solve? :)
12:06<Rubidium>Chris82: using NukeBuster's latest patch?
12:06<@peter1138>Chris82: like it is in trunk, probably
12:07<@peter1138>tileh == (SLOPE_STEEP | ComplementSlope(unsafe_slope[mode])))
12:07<Rubidium>because NukeBuster's patch reverts some fixes in trunk
12:07<Chris82>I am using it partially
12:07<Chris82>to fix a bug with diagonal levelling
12:09<Chris82>peter1138: Thanks that did the trick :) *remembersolutionforfuture*
12:09<@peter1138>yeah, check what it is in trunk ;)
12:10<stillunknown>Rewriting the train movement stuff is not easy, hopefully i'll get it to work at all.
12:13<Chris82>ah NukeBusters patch reverts the can't terraform canal thingy from trunk
12:13<Chris82>thanks for saying that so I can fix it :D
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12:31<Chris82>if (!EnsureNoVehicle(tile)) return CMD_ERROR; what does this line do?
12:32<Chris82>it's from the buy a land tile code
12:32<Noldo>it tests if there is a vehicle on the tile
12:32<Eddi|zuHause3>if there is a vehicle on the tile, exit and say there was an error
12:33<Chris82>hmmm but on a purchasable land tile there can't be a vehicle?
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12:33<Chris82>I mean you can't buy land when there is road or rail on the tile ?
12:33<SmatZ>Chris82: most likely, if it is a half-road tile, there may be a vehicle
12:33<Chris82>so is that check even necessary?
12:33<Chris82>ah ok
12:34<Eddi|zuHause3>it might be a water tile with a ship?
12:34<Chris82>you can buy water tiles?
12:34<Chris82>didn't know
12:34<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know...
12:36<Rubidium>crashed planes
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12:38[~]dihedral says hi
12:38<dihedral>hi
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12:41<Chris82>you can't buy water tiles btw :)
12:41<Chris82>it says can't build on water
12:42<SmatZ>yup
12:42<SmatZ>and only trams can be on half-road tiles, normal road vehs won't go there (as I tested)
12:42<dihedral>that is a dissapointment
12:42<Rubidium>Chris82: as I said, crashed planes
12:43<SmatZ>maybe UFOs too?
12:43<Rubidium>those too
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12:50<Chris82>uhm when I click shift and try to demolish something I get an error like window with estimated costs?
12:51<SmatZ>Chris82: yes, you do
12:51<Chris82>oh cool didn't know of this feature, well but it's buggy with the 45° patch as well :D lol
12:52<Chris82>man 4 serious bugs in 1 patch
12:52<SmatZ>:)
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12:56<@Belugas>and people screaming to get it into trunk :S
12:56<@Belugas>nice way to test...
12:57<SmatZ>Chris82: are you the maintainter of the ChrisIN ?
12:57<Chris82>yes
12:58<Chris82>Belugas: Luckily we solved the worst bug already (subtracting money when you don't have any :D)
12:58<SmatZ>ah great, so you are going to include that patch to test it :)
12:58<Chris82>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32698 the patch is in already
12:58<Chris82>it's mostly fixed except that cost estimation does not work right now and the explosion animation is not shown
12:58<Chris82>i have the solution for the latter already
12:59<Chris82>also the current ChrisIN loads trunk and 0.5.2 savegames which was not working with my initial release
12:59<Wolf01>- Removed German language support ???
12:59<@Belugas>i let you work on that, guys. Just don't screw it, make it a nice one.
12:59<Chris82>yes, because only a few patches updated the german.txt and others don't so it wouldn't have worked properly anyway
12:59<SmatZ>hmhm, cost estimation may be problematic, like is cost estimation for water leveling
12:59<Chris82>so ChrisIN only works with English right now
13:00<Wolf01>maybe it patches only english is a better way to tell it
13:00<@Belugas>I've already did what i could with my limited time: reducing its size its a tiny little bit
13:00<Chris82>ok :) good point
13:01<Chris82>I was to lazy to translate the missing parts :D
13:01<Maedhros>Chris82: it'll use english strings for any that aren't translated
13:01<Wolf01>oh hello Belugas
13:01<Chris82>too*
13:01<@Belugas>hello Wolf01 :)
13:01|-|nihil84 [~paolo@adsl-ull-208-182.41-151.net24.it] has joined #openttd
13:03<dihedral>hello Belugas
13:04<Eddi|zuHause3>Chris82: not all strings have to be translated for a language to work
13:05|-|lolman [JYugen@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
13:06[~]dihedral compiles nightly
13:11|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:13<@Belugas>hello dihedral :)
13:13<@Belugas>sorry for the lag...
13:13<@Belugas>as usual, i'm... buzy
13:17<dihedral>as usual - i thought so :-)
13:23<dihedral>Rubidium: still cannot build pre signals in multiplayer
13:23<dihedral>on windows XP
13:25<Chris82>Eddi: Yes I know but I think at least the STR_ must exist in the language file?!
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>no
13:26<Eddi|zuHause3>it automatically copies the egnlish string
13:26<Chris82>Ah ok I see how it works now :)
13:26<Chris82>Just tested it
13:26<Chris82>cool :)
13:31<Rubidium>dihedral: that really sounds like a local problem to me; I've not heard anybody else who couldn't build presignals
13:32<dihedral>arrow keys dont work either
13:32<dihedral>though works in 0.5.2
13:32<dihedral>and works under linux
13:32<Maedhros>any custom patches? (if the answer is yes, try again without them :p )
13:33<Eddi|zuHause3>dihedral: care to isolate the revision which made it stop?
13:33<dihedral>Maedhros: no custom patches
13:33|-|MarkSlap [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd
13:33<dihedral>odd thing is it works in singleplayer
13:33<dihedral>though not after i once played in multiplayer
13:34<dihedral>after restarting the game it will again work in singleplayer
13:34<dihedral>fellow players have not issues - same os - same game
13:34<Eddi|zuHause3>same binary?
13:34<Rubidium>then what *is* the different factor?
13:35<Wolf01>[brickland] fixed *again* the full corner slopes, now it's all ok :)
13:35<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/files/screenshot1_832.png
13:35<dihedral>nightly build zip
13:35<Phazorx>TrueBrain: http://img.cx/e/9314883395/PICCYSNAP.COM_577_c.png
13:35<dihedral>Rubidium: i have a german version of XP?
13:36|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
13:36<Rubidium>Phazorx: expect a reply in no less that two weeks
13:36<Phazorx>vacation?
13:36<Rubidium>yup
13:37<Phazorx>sad
13:37<Phazorx>he doesnt want to listne to me
13:37<Eddi|zuHause3>that, or just extreme lag :p
13:37|-|MarkMc [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:38<Phazorx>500 years, 4 industries with <32 putput, 1/3 of industries stuck at minimum, only one industry with ~2K, 2 with ~1K
13:38<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01|AWAY: it looks weird with these different shades of green on one tile
13:39<Phazorx>overtime smooth economy gradualy REDUCES output and industries got to minimal output stay there
13:39<Phazorx>i can prove ti both matheamtically and empericaly
13:40<Rubidium>ooh, proving randomness mathematically or emperically ;)
13:40<dihedral>LOL
13:40<Phazorx>Rubidium: statistically if you want
13:40<dihedral>statistics on randomness are rubbish
13:40<Eddi|zuHause3>you CAN do calculations about expected (average) outcome mathematically
13:41<Phazorx>i did
13:41|-|mikl [~mikl@0x55514de1.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:41<Phazorx>and even that is not needed
13:41|-||Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD576B7C2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:41<Phazorx>nature of how "change" is calculated is clearby unbalanced
13:41<Rubidium>it is?
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, 50% loss is clearly weighted heavier than 50% gain
13:42<Rubidium>20/1024 chance of decrease, a higher chance of increase
13:42<Phazorx>and with equal chances of inc/dec and current idea of calcualting change
13:42<Phazorx>Rubidium: why higher
13:42<Eddi|zuHause3>in order to outbalance 50% loss you need 100% gain
13:42<Phazorx>only if industries are used
13:42<Rubidium>a (20 + (i->last_month_pct_transported[j] * 20 >> 8) / 1024 chance
13:43<Rubidium>which means 40/1024 if 100% transported
13:43<Phazorx>Rubidium: this is case study for no interferance from human
13:43<Phazorx>if left alone it reduces
13:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the trick is not to use arithmetic mean but geometric mean to calculate "balance"
13:44<Phazorx>arithmetical mean?
13:44<Eddi|zuHause3>if you'd assume the chance of loss and gain were even, then sqrt(max_loss*max_gain) must be 1
13:44<Eddi|zuHause3>not (max_loss+max_gain)/2
13:45<Phazorx>well only mean gain/loss makes sense ehre
13:45<Phazorx>however max is derived from it
13:45<dihedral>Rubidium: i can build the signals if i start a server locally and connect to that...
13:45<blathijs>20:06 <@peter1138> the threads at this stage are the map generator the gui, for that lovely scroll bar effect, heh
13:45<blathijs>20:07 <@peter1138> but i wonder if i could create a separate thread to handle all opengl duties
13:45<Phazorx>Rubidium: problem is that change is relative ot value rather than absolute
13:45<Eddi|zuHause3>well, max or mean does not make a difference if it is evenly distributed
13:45<blathijs>sorry for that
13:45<blathijs>20:07 < blathijs> Is there a seperate GUI thread?
13:45<blathijs>20:09 <@peter1138> only during map generation
13:45<blathijs>woops
13:45<@peter1138>19:41 < Phazorx> if left alone it reduces
13:46<@peter1138>isn't that the idea? ;)
13:46<Phazorx>peter1138: i tihnk it should be balanced if left alone
13:46<Phazorx>and overall effect should be 1
13:46<Phazorx>because as it is noe human needs to intervene to maintain production level
13:46<Rubidium>Phazorx: i.e. no effect of amount of transportation then, just randomness
13:46<Phazorx>and intervene even more to increase it
13:47<Phazorx>Rubidium: how it should be done is different story, currenty i'm just making a point that the way it is doen is not balanced
13:47<Phazorx>due to usage of relative change factor
13:48<Rubidium>relative change factor?
13:48<Phazorx>okay 3rd time i do this today
13:48<dihedral>b back in a jiffy :-)
13:48<Phazorx>say there is an industry which has production of 100
13:48<dihedral>or is it of importance to anybody here that i test this windows ctrl issue??
13:49<Phazorx>chances of inc and dec are equal so say 2 events happen, one inc the other dec by 10% each
13:49<Rubidium>yes, it goes down a little more than it goes up
13:49<dihedral>otherwise i shall just boot up in linux
13:49<Rubidium>but *how* can you solve that "issue"
13:49<Phazorx>inc > dec: 100; 100+10;110 - 11; 99
13:50<dihedral>Rubidium: i have no idea
13:50<Phazorx>dec > inc: 100; 100-10;90 + 9; 99
13:50<dihedral>it works on local games
13:50<Rubidium>dihedral: was talking to Phazorx
13:50<dihedral>Rubidium: thats a real shame :-)
13:50<Rubidium>dihedral: I've got no means to even try to debug your problem
13:51<Phazorx>Rubidium: that's not a little, since it is per event, and has cumulative effect
13:51<Phazorx>if left alon till eternity lim of "function" of chage is some static minimum
13:52<Rubidium>Phazorx: HOW do you solve that issue?
13:52<Phazorx>even with more industries are being created and "fix" for minimum production having larger increase
13:52<stillunknown>Anyone know were the show cost animation function is?
13:52<Rubidium>without using floats that is
13:52<Rubidium>stillunknown: search for TE_RAISE and follow the trail
13:53<stillunknown>Can't find that.
13:54<Phazorx>Rubidium: for example calculate absolute balance of all changes at given moment of time
13:54<Phazorx>it should be 0 for all unprospered industries
13:54<Eddi|zuHause3><Phazorx> inc > dec: 100; 100+10;110 - 11; 99 <- exactly because sqrt(0.9*1.1) < 1
13:54<stillunknown>But i did find the function is seek.
13:55<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: yeah i was trying to illustrate what i meant by "mathematically/statistically"
13:55|-|Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: back in a bit]
13:56<Eddi|zuHause3>it works much better if you do 10% decrease and 11% increase
13:56<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: not really true - both decreease and increase are random
13:57|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
13:57<Phazorx>10+R(0-50)
13:57|-|MadMax [~max@38.Red-217-127-163.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd
13:57<Phazorx>and 10+R(0-55) for increase wont do the trick
13:57<MadMax>hi
13:57<stillunknown>Is there something in the game that i can use to highlight a tile at the base?
13:58<UnderBuilder>I think the temperate forests should be changed with a 2x2 building that cuts down trees around itself like the tropical sawmill but it can be builded randomly like mines, farms...
13:58<Phazorx>another approach i can suggest - using fixed steps array for both decrease and increase
13:58<Eddi|zuHause3>no, because if decrease is between 10 and 50%, increase must be between 11 and 100%
13:58<Eddi|zuHause3>not 11 and 55%
13:58<UnderBuilder>well, with newindustries will be possible that so I shut up
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13:58<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: true
13:59<Eddi|zuHause3>it's nonlinear
13:59<Phazorx>it doesnt have to be
13:59<Phazorx>but it better be balanced
14:00<Phazorx>precalculated relative (percentage) change steps with argegated effect of 0 and geometrical mean of 1 should be easy and efficient
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>try changing the random formulas so that min_gain=1/min_loss and max_gain=1/max_loss, and do a similar "statistical" run
14:01<Phazorx>floats
14:01<Phazorx>we were traing to avod them
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>it has nothing to do with floats
14:01|-|TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C8D1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:02<UnderBuilder>so what is the current feature being developed in openttd? wiki seems out of date
14:02<Eddi|zuHause3>you have fixed point arithmethics (because you multiply everything by 100% anyway)
14:02<@peter1138>UnderBuilder: there is no one current feature
14:02<Wolf01>there are many current features
14:03<@Belugas>UnderBuilder : and we rather enjoy developping than keeping the wiki up to date :P
14:04<Wolf01>how is with newindustries, if i can ask?
14:04<UnderBuilder>well, wiki is also open source, so the users can contribute to it
14:05<@Belugas>Wolf01 : improvements and stepback, basically... Stepback since i've learned some of my decisions are wrong, improvement since i've almost finished the Fund NewIndustry gui
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14:05[~]dihedral compiles 10k2
14:05<Wolf01>yeah :D
14:06<@Belugas>http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/newindustry_gui3.png
14:06<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: do you have the commit power/will to replace randomization by fait one?
14:07<Eddi|zuHause3>no
14:07<Wolf01>looks good
14:07<@Belugas>needs to add the accepted and produced cargos. a bitch
14:07<Phazorx>so it'll be 11+R(0-100)
14:07<Phazorx>peter1138?
14:07<@peter1138>wut?
14:07<@Belugas>and I don't know why I have two white banks :(
14:08<Phazorx>or Rubidium
14:08<UnderBuilder>also, what about if you have a newgrf missing the gui shows a 'search this grf on grfcrawler' button?
14:08<Phazorx>are you guys following conversation with Eddi|zuHause3 ?
14:08<@peter1138>no at all
14:08<Wolf01>eh the one which produces and receive and the other which receives only
14:08<Wolf01>maybe
14:09<Eddi|zuHause3>Phazorx: your calculation is even wrong... 10+50=60%, so you need 167% gain
14:10<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause3: that was your calculation btw
14:10<Eddi|zuHause3>no, i did a sample calculation, because it's easier with 50% than 60% ;)
14:11<Phazorx>peter1138: basiaclly current "randomizer" for smooth economy industry changes is lapsided
14:11<@Belugas>UnderBuilder : been discussed lenghtly. answer : no
14:11<@Belugas>Wolf01 : no, it must be a nug on my part
14:11<@Belugas>bug
14:11<@peter1138>maybe it's by design
14:12<Phazorx>TrueBrain claims it is balanced
14:12<Rubidium>Phazorx: that's your opinion
14:12<Rubidium>because when the production stays the same on average, we don't need to introduces new industries
14:13<Phazorx><TrueBrain> Phazorx: let me tell you again: they are equal
14:13<Phazorx><TrueBrain> Phazorx: either read the code, or believe what I am telling you; either way, you are wrong
14:14<dihedral>no problems with r 10002
14:14<Chris82>this is probably a stupid question but why is landscape.cpp under Source Files and not Landscape in the VS project?
14:14<Chris82>I always look for it in Landscape first :D
14:14<Phazorx>that was his answer to balance of changes
14:15<@Belugas>Chris82 : landscape.cpp is not a command file. landscape section is devoted to command-aware files
14:15<Phazorx>and i hardly doubt that it was done intentionaly to lower combined output of indutries over time
14:15<@Belugas>landscape.cpp is a regular source file
14:15<Chris82>thanks for clearing that up :)
14:16<Chris82>Phazorx: Why do you think combined output lowers with time?
14:16<Chris82>When you theoretically deliver cargo from every industry it will not decrease over time and that's realistic
14:17<Chris82>when there is no demand at most industries production will decline just like in real life
14:17<Chris82>or have I missed something?
14:17<Phazorx>i just explained that 4 times in past 2 hours
14:17|-|Markkisen [~hestporr@host48-181.etanet.se] has joined #openttd
14:17<Chris82>sorry *hides*
14:17<Chris82>need to scroll up I guess :D
14:17<Phazorx>i dont "think" it does, it DOES i can prove it and at least Eddi|zuHause3 agrees to me now
14:18<Phazorx>and answer i got from author was that changes aare balanced by design
14:18<Rubidium>Phazorx: it does when you do not transport anything. This behaviour is OK.
14:18<Phazorx>however i can see how implementation lacks it
14:18<Chris82>hmm maybe it's not too hard to write some part of test code that outputs overall production somewhere
14:18<Rubidium>Phazorx: TrueBrain is not the author of smooth economy AFAIK
14:18<Chris82>then it would be easy to test it in games
14:18<UnderBuilder>why not? Is a 'search on GRFCrawler' button, not a 'Download immediately' one
14:18<Phazorx>Rubidium: he is maintainer i gues?
14:19<Rubidium>well, he tried to fix some bugs with it
14:19|-|Nukebuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:19<dihedral>Chris82: make it a console command :-P
14:20<Rubidium>UnderBuilder: because 50% or so is not even listed at GRFcrawler
14:20<Nukebuster>!logs
14:20<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
14:20<Rubidium>UnderBuilder: and it would add a lot of dependencies to other applications just to launch a web browser
14:20<Phazorx>Rubidium: i would not say it is okay, due to nature of game you can not instantly start transporting everything to maintain high level
14:20|-|MarkSlap [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:21<Rubidium>Phazorx: so... industries die, new industries arise
14:21<Phazorx>and with current setting player's effort to counteract logic are quite considerable just to maintain balance
14:21<Phazorx>Rubidium: this only concerns 1st tier
14:21<Phazorx>which doesnt die
14:21<Smoovious>dunno what kinds of issues it would create with GRF authors, but there are GRF's used by servers, that you can't download anymore... perhaps allow downloading the missing GRF's directly from the server?
14:22<@Belugas>copyrights have been raised as one of the issues.
14:22<Rubidium>Smoovious: that is not going to happen and has been talked about a thousand times before
14:22[~]Smoovious nods.
14:22<@Belugas>and even grf writers objected to the idea.
14:22<@Belugas>so...
14:23<Phazorx>Rubidium: average decrease is 10 + 50/10 = 30%, average increase is currently same./.. but you need +50% to counteract -30%
14:23<Chris82>in which file is the code for cost estimation when pressing shift?
14:23<Rubidium>Phazorx: so you tell me that none of the primary (farms, oil rigs, oil wells, etc) don't die?
14:23<Kjetil>Chris82: it's everywhere
14:23<Rubidium>Chris82: that happens automatically
14:23<Phazorx>so a player if a player want to increase ndustry output they have to pump these extra 20% by increaseing chances of increase jsut to MAINTAIN production level
14:24<Phazorx>Rubidium: with smooth economy yes the do not die
14:24<Rubidium>it just executed the command that would be performed when not pressing the shift
14:24<Smoovious>well, production levels fluctuate
14:24<Phazorx>Smoovious: absed on set of rules
14:24<Phazorx>which lead them to constant overall decrease over time
14:24<SmatZ>Chris82: this is what 'if (flags & DC_EXEC )' statements are used
14:24<Smoovious>to a point
14:25<stillunknown>Can anyone tell me how _new_vehicle_direction_table relates to direction?
14:25<Rubidium>Phazorx: can you show me the code that makes it impossible that primary industries die?
14:26|-|Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: watching ALIAS :D]
14:26<stillunknown>Because (for example) direction 4 is south, while _new_vehicle_direction_table lists it as invalid.
14:26<stillunknown>I mean as north east.
14:26<Phazorx>Rubidium: hmm... i can tell you how it is in game
14:26<Phazorx>lemme see the code
14:27<Phazorx>industry_cmd.cpp:1629
14:27<Phazorx>for 10304
14:28<Phazorx>actualyl that is something different
14:28<Phazorx>i have no idea what these propwerties do
14:29<Rubidium>Phazorx: and in 10343?
14:29<Phazorx>i doubt file got changed much
14:30<UnderBuilder>what about... shipways? :D
14:30<UnderBuilder>lol
14:30<Rubidium>Phazorx: you are pointing to some case that only happens in secondary industries
14:30|-|Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
14:31<Phazorx>i was mistaken please look at primary part
14:31<@Belugas>Phazorx : Rubidium is right. Primary industries do NOT die
14:31<@Belugas>i know, believe me...
14:31<Phazorx>and these that set cloeit to false
14:31<Phazorx>Belugas: visa verse
14:31<Phazorx>i am sayign the dont die, he says they do
14:31<@Belugas>ho...
14:31<Rubidium>Phazorx: do primary industries set closit to false unconditionally?
14:31<Phazorx>Rubidium: conditionally
14:31<Phazorx>but they do set it in all cases
14:32<Rubidium>ergo, primary industries do close as I said
14:32<Phazorx>all practical cases i guess
14:32<Smoovious>well, they close occasionally, but not for any reasons having to do with delivered cargo
14:32<Smoovious>some just run out of raw materials... for examplpe
14:32<Phazorx>i have not seen a primary industry close in any game for considerable amount of time i play with smooth economy
14:32<Rubidium>Smoovious: that's only the close message
14:33<Smoovious>I know
14:33<Smoovious>but it closes, nontheless...
14:33<Phazorx>Belugas: please help to convince Rubidium that they do NOT close
14:33<Smoovious>running out of raw materials i s simulated
14:33<Phazorx>and that is irrelevant to the point i was making anyway
14:34<Phazorx>Smoovious: we are talking about smooth ecnomy rather than standard behavior
14:35<Smoovious>Phazorx... should make no difference... smooth econ is supposed to have smaller changes, more frequently...
14:35<Smoovious>shouldn't change if thing close or not
14:35<Phazorx>it does change that
14:35<Phazorx>and it's not safe to assume that we know what it shoudl and shopuld not do at this point
14:36<Phazorx>since it is neither balanced as TrueBrain claims nor working as Rubidium expects it
14:36<Smoovious>I'm not talking about what it _is_ doing right now, but what it _should_ be doing
14:36<dihedral>Rubidium: it works all of a sudden - but dont ask my why
14:37<dihedral>i have no idea
14:37<Phazorx>that's exactly my point, there is stipulation that it currently acts as desired
14:37<@Belugas>Phazorx, Rubidium, actually, the code does not prohibit it
14:37<@Belugas>I've made a little survey
14:37<UnderBuilder>what about new towns foundation (randomly, not placed by the user)
14:37<@Belugas>The ony place where an induistry could be deleted(closed) is in UpdateIndustryStatistics
14:38<Smoovious>well... all I can add is that I always use smooth econ, and I've seen raw material industries close
14:38<@Belugas>industry_cmd.cp : 1695
14:38<@Belugas>unless, of course, smooth_economy is on...
14:38<Phazorx>Belugas: we are talkign about smooth economy on
14:38<Rubidium>hmm, TrueBrain at least broke it by clamping to 4
14:39[~]Smoovious shrugs, and goes back to gettting his patches up to date.
14:39<@Belugas> if (i->prod_level == 0) {
14:39<@Belugas> DeleteIndustry(i);
14:39<@Belugas> } else if (_patches.smooth_economy) {
14:39<@Belugas> ExtChangeIndustryProduction(i);
14:39<@Belugas> }
14:39<Phazorx>Smoovious: screenshot?
14:39<dihedral>let me correct that Rubidium
14:39<dihedral>it works when i have another ottd game running in the background!!
14:40<Smoovious>Phazorx... of what?
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14:40<Phazorx>primary closing
14:41<@Belugas>with smooth : case INDUSTRYLIFE_NOT_CLOSABLE:
14:41<@Belugas> return;
14:41<@Belugas>so, no way can it be closed
14:41<Smoovious>next time I see one, if I remember, I'll nab one... may take a while... I don't play very often
14:41<Phazorx>Belugas: that is something different
14:41<Phazorx>and according to lines you posted
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14:42<Phazorx>only unexplored industries can be affected by smooth economy?
14:42<Phazorx>so ExtChangeIndustryProduction applies only to case when industry is not transported from
14:43<Rubidium>hmm, who actually wrote that piece of crap?
14:43<UnderBuilder>I need two grfs with id's 44442301 and 52570102
14:43<Phazorx>err.. applies only to industry that has neither kind of cargo exported from (but will afefct any cargo type ot producses)
14:43<UnderBuilder>they are not in grfcrawler
14:43<UnderBuilder>which ones are them?
14:43<Phazorx>Rubidium: any idea where is the code that updates production in case if indutry is used?
14:44<Rubidium>exactly the same function
14:44<Phazorx>grep -r ExtChangeIndustryProduction *
14:44<@Belugas>default of all industries : i->prod_level = 0x10;
14:44<Phazorx>industry_cmd.cpp: ExtChangeIndustryProduction(i);
14:44<Phazorx>it is called only once
14:44<Phazorx>in whole src
14:44<Phazorx>from that ifstatement Belugas just posted
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14:45<@Belugas>prod_level changes ands determines (once at zero) if it should close.
14:46<@Belugas>but ChangeIndustryProduction prohibits prod_level to be changed for INDUSTR_NOT_CLOSABLE
14:47<Phazorx>well sicne it gets to that function i know that priomaries are flagged so it does reaches 0
14:47<@Belugas>1) I'm at work, and really buzy. So i do have my miond concentrated at 100%
14:48<@Belugas>2) If you say it reaches 0, then it should close
14:48<Phazorx>it goes to that function
14:48<Phazorx>but it has 2 mroe statement affecting closeit flag
14:49<Phazorx>which rull out chance of closure for any industry with any production AFAIK
14:49<Phazorx>rule out
14:49<Phazorx>so closeit is being conditionaly set to flase for primary industries
14:49<UnderBuilder>but at least the name of the newgrf should be showed if a grf is missing
14:50<Phazorx>and although then can potentialy get closed (there are no hardcoded limitations) it is nog going to happen according to logic
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14:51<Smoovious>if a newgrf is missing, how will it know the name? check the server's info page for the list of grf's it is using
14:51<Rubidium>UnderBuilder: where do you need the name of the newgrf to be shown?
14:52<@Belugas>isn't it shown with a red dot on the newgrf setting?
14:53<Smoovious>44442301=modified building costs
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14:54<Phazorx>i guess i'm gonna have to make a bug report, you guys loose interest too quickly for me to prove my point
14:54<Smoovious>made by Pikka and DanMacK
14:54<stillunknown>How can a Direction be converted into a DiagDirection?
14:54<stillunknown>Since a direction can sometimes imply more than one DiagDirection.
14:55<Rubidium>stillunknown: look at direction.h
14:55<UnderBuilder>yes, it is shown but as '<Unknown>'
14:55<Smoovious>cuz it isn't aware of it
14:55<stillunknown>Rubidium: I see that, but i don't see how it will work.
14:56<stillunknown>For instance, a train going south, may enter a tile southwest or southeast.
14:56<Rubidium>direction_variable = DirectionToDiagDirection(diagdir_variable);
14:56<Smoovious>dunno what the other one is
14:56<stillunknown>DirToDiag simply turns that into southwest.
14:56<Rubidium>UnderBuilder: then your (or the one of the server you queried from) internet connection is not 100%
14:57<Rubidium>because it requests the name of the newgrf using a non-reliable packet protocol, i.e. it might not end up at the destination
14:59<Rubidium>stillunknown: that isn't going from direction to diagdir
14:59<Rubidium>because the diagdir you want is (almost) the inverse of DirectionToDiagDir(direction)
15:00<Smoovious>btw... 44442301 = pb_build.grf ... maybe a google search on the filename, or on tt-forums.net, will help you find it
15:00<stillunknown>Rubidium: then the function is not ok?
15:00<Rubidium>no
15:01<Rubidium>pb_build.grf does not have a name in the grf
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15:02<Smoovious>didn't say it h and one
15:02<@Belugas>Phazorx : too quickly???? gotta be kidding o_O
15:02<Smoovious>but that's the filename of the grf that u ses #44442301
15:03<Phazorx>Belugas: no one belives me that there is a problem
15:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10344 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10317): confusion between TRACK_n and TRACK_BIT_n stopped NW/SE slopes being picked up, and compare middle of tile against current z, not previous.
15:03<Smoovious>maybe they don't see it as a problem?
15:03<Phazorx>as i tray to explain - attention gets lost
15:04<Phazorx>Smoovious: may be they should argue with my explanation then :)
15:04<Smoovious>we have short attention spa... ooo! shiny!
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15:05<Rubidium>Phazorx, as we tried to explain: we don't see it as a bug that industries lower their production over time and then die (though the dieing part is broken at the moment) as you get new industries to replace them.
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15:06<Phazorx>Rubidium: 1) primaries do not die accroding to logic 2) i do see it as problem unless it is intentional that a player has to work to maintain production lelve, not to increase it
15:06<Phazorx>a also see flow on math part which leads to 2)
15:06<@Belugas>Phazorx: enough, please
15:07<Rubidium>Phazorx: the logic is flawed at this moment, but it won't be soon
15:07<Smoovious>why shouldn't a player have to work to maintain levels?
15:07<@Belugas>if you don't lioke how they berhave, you could just write a grf that controls it to your liking and wait for newindustries to be intrunk
15:07<XeryusTC>Smoovious: because if an industry doesnt get a thing transported they become full and eventually go bankrupt
15:08<Phazorx>Rubidium: i am talking about value of change, which is quite lapsided in favor of decrease
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15:08<Smoovious>that doesn't really answer my (rhetorical) question
15:08<Phazorx>Smoovious: because they did not have to in original logic for starters
15:09<Smoovious>well... imho... a player should ha ve to work to maintain levels...
15:09<Phazorx>also becasuse it appers to me as math error rather than intentional, someone assumed that using same relative chnages will resulty in balanced effect
15:10<Phazorx>Smoovious: that is a matter of rpefence then, and i'd argue with you on that one
15:10<Phazorx>XeryusTC: can you throw coopers config at me plz, i want to figure out why it segfaults locally
15:11<Smoovious>a game shouldn't be too easy
15:11<Phazorx>this is about fair rather than easy
15:11<Smoovious>fair is about all players playing by the same set of rules...
15:12<Smoovious>doesn't apply here
15:12<Phazorx>not necessary players
15:12<Phazorx>solo game is played against logic of the game
15:12<Phazorx>and i do not mean AI
15:13<Smoovious>so change the logic instead of dealing with the current environment? hardly fair
15:13<UnderBuilder>what about... realistic vehicle speed for rvs and ships?
15:13<Phazorx>return the logic back to where it was before it was affected by lack of foresight
15:13<@peter1138>UnderBuilder: as long as it's 'realistic' in quotes...
15:14<Phazorx>ot justify change of logic by something else rather than lack of math knowledge
15:14<Smoovious>dude... insulting the intelligence of the coding team, is never a smart move...
15:14<Smoovious>it is one thing finding a mistake... quite another calling them stupid
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15:15<Phazorx>i do not mean it as an insult but it really appears to me more of aknowledging of in issue being there problem rather than anything else
15:15<Smoovious>where you in channel earlier when it was already acknowledged there were some issues?
15:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r10345 /trunk/src/ (pathfind.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp):
15:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#290]: Make OPF handle coming out of a tunnel as well as going into a tunnel, to support road vehicles looking back when finding a depot while in a tunnel.
15:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#290]: Make NPF look back when finding a depot for road vehicles.
15:15<Phazorx>soe other issues - yes
15:15<Phazorx>this onoe i have not seen
15:16[~]Smoovious shrugs, "make a patch then..."
15:16[~]Smoovious goes back to his project.
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15:20<Phazorx>Smoovious: it is realy childish btw "there is no problem, and even if there is - we meant it this way"
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15:21<Rubidium>Phazorx: it is your opinion that it is a problem and other people have another opinion about that subject
15:21<Smoovious>their arguments, were different, than mine
15:22<Smoovious>my main argument was about not having to work to maintain production...
15:23<Smoovious>theirs dealt more with the code itself... mine was more abstract, about gameplay
15:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: matthijs * r10346 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix: Forgotten "else" in r10345 (thanks peter1138).
15:24<Smoovious>now, I really do have stuff that is more important to me, to put my attention to...
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15:27<UnderBuilder>is more players patch coming up?
15:27<UnderBuilder>16 (one per colour company) will be ok
15:28<UnderBuilder>companies*
15:28<UnderBuilder>but first extend max players to 32
15:28<Smoovious>there is interest in more players, but it would take a lot of re-coding... it'
15:29<Smoovious>it'll probably happen eventually
15:29<UnderBuilder>there is a patch somewhere
15:29<Smoovious>when someone decides they wanna tackle it :)
15:29<Smoovious>how much testinig has it had?
15:29<Rubidium>none in current trunk
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15:49<Thomas[NL]>Why close the add NewGRF-file windows when a newgrf is added? If you leave it open it isn't such a pain in the ass to add a whole list of grf's.
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15:56<Wolf01>'night
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15:59<UnderBuilder>what will the next suggestion of jasper?
16:00<@peter1138>be
16:01<Thomas[NL]>pedestrians :)
16:02<Smoovious>well, pedestrians would give the road vehicles something to run over... .. .
16:03<Thomas[NL]>that is why he wants ambulances :P
16:03<@peter1138>:o
16:03<Smoovious>no... I want emergency vehicles for crashes and other randomness :D
16:04<Smoovious>with pedestrians, we could do with just a street-sweeper or two
16:09<UnderBuilder>I think it will be... shipways
16:09<UnderBuilder>lol
16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10347 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#948]: industries with a very low production could never recover when using smooth economy.
16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: in smooth economy producing industries could not close, whereas they could close in non-smooth economy.
16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: in smooth economy the "do not increase production" flag of industries was ignored.
16:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10348 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10347): compile errors; do not think it compiles fine when you run make on the wrong working copy.
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16:37<UnderBuilder>a question: currently, power stations are built only near cities or anywere in the map?
16:39<Rubidium>anywhere
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16:43<Smoovious>well, anywhere there isn't water... .. .
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17:09<UnderBuilder>strange: in my 0.5.2 ottd lacking grf names are being shown
17:09<Rubidium>UnderBuilder: that's just "luck"
17:10<Rubidium>as I said before, sometimes those packets do not get through
17:10<Rubidium>and it doesn't retry because it isn't vital information
17:10<Rubidium>but pressing "refresh" on the server should requery the information IIRC
17:14<UnderBuilder>so the possibility of a bug is low right?
17:15<Rubidium>yes
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17:19<@peter1138>nini
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17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10349 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_node_rail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp):
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#941, YAPF, r10301]: tile/trackdir must be used as node key and also as segment key in the cache (SmatZ).
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: In the past it was possible to use tile/exitdir as the key because segments
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: beginning on the same tile/exitdir were incorrectly considered the same. What I
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: still don't understand is why this bug happened only on 64 bit systems (linux,
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Win64).
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18:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10350 /branches/noai/ (201 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r10194:10349
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19:40<Smoovious>does RandomRange() return a result starting at 0, or 1?
19:41<+glx>GB(Random(), 0, 16) * max >> 16
19:41<Smoovious>like, would RandomRange(3) return results of 1|2|3, 0|1|2, or 0|1|2|3
19:41<+glx>so 0 I think
19:42<Smoovious>0|1|2 then? or 0|1|2|3?
19:46<+glx>0|1|2
19:46<Smoovious>thnxy
19:47<+glx>anyway most random functions return values between 0 and max-1
19:48<Smoovious>ok... that's what I'm used to from another language, but ya never know...
19:48<Smoovious>been bit by that before :D
20:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10351 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r10350: forgot to update regression.txt (indeed GetCompanyName() and GetPresidentName() were half-broken before r10350)
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 27 00:00:17 2007