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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-27

---Logopened Wed Jun 27 00:00:17 2007
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01:05<Chris82>good morning :)
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01:44<Chris82>hmmmmm
01:44<Chris82>I have fixed the cost estimation always 0 bug with the diagonal patch
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01:44<Chris82>but there is still a bug which is also in trunk
01:44<Chris82>the cost estimation is too high (happens with my patch, but it also happens in trunk)
01:45<Chris82>I don't know exactly how this happens since that bit of code is very rarely commented anywhere
01:46<Chris82>cost estimation for demolishing is correct, but for levelling a too high value is displayed
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02:28<hylje>desync bug in trunk
02:29<blathijs>bugger
02:33<blathijs>hylje: Any clue as to the cause? Doing anything special? Does the autosave reproduce it?
02:33<Chris82>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32698 updated with 1 patch and bugfixes :)
02:34<hylje>i dunno yet
02:34|-|Ammller changed nick to Ammler
02:38<Smoovious>Chris82... are you still doing INs?
02:38<Chris82>as you can see above yes :)
02:38<Smoovious>sorry, didn't know that was what you were discussing
02:39<Chris82>np :) I just updated the thread a minute ago with some fixes and code from the latest trunk
02:39<Smoovious>would you mind giving my FS#532 patch a try? finished getting it current to r10349 this evening
02:43<@peter1138>hylje: r10349 might fix it, but that's a wild stab in the dark
02:43<Chris82>oh that's a very nice idea :) this should be in trunk smoovious
02:43<Chris82>it always annoys me on my servers that chat messages are gone so quicly
02:43<Smoovious>I agree... :P
02:43<Chris82>quickly*
02:43<hylje>oo, timetables work rather automagically
02:44<Smoovious>I spent the past 5 days, incrementally getting it up to date...
02:45<Smoovious>now I'm restarting my bring_back_mail_subsidies patch from scratch, cuz getting my previous patch current would take a lot more work than just starting o ver
02:45<@peter1138>+ SDT_VAR(Patches, chat_text_visible, SLE_UINT16,S,NC, 60,10,900,10, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_CHAT_TEXT_VISIBLE, NULL),
02:45<@peter1138>chat_text_duration would make more sense?
02:45<Smoovious>I'm almost done, but something isn't working right
02:46<Chris82>true peter :)
02:46<Chris82>also I make absolutely every patch I add CONDVAR that highly reduces savegame problems
02:46<Chris82>even when using Flag S I often get savegame problems otherwise
02:46<Smoovious>yeah... I can make that change later... once I finish thtis one
02:47<@peter1138>this doesn't need CONDVAR
02:47<@peter1138>as it is all client side, in theory
02:47<Smoovious>well, I haven't done a patch yet that directly affects savegames... only c onfig settings
02:47<Smoovious>local configs
02:47[~]peter1138 > off
02:48<Smoovious>?
02:51|-|dihedral [~nathanael@joshua.dihedral.de] has joined #openttd
02:51<dihedral>mornin
02:51<dihedral>:-)
02:51<dihedral>Rubidium: SirkoZ sends greetings and says you're a king
02:52<Smoovious>peter1138... can I nest "? :"'s? like...: value = ( boolean ? ( x>4 ? yes : no ) : ( y>4 ? yes : no ) ); ???
02:53<Ev>please compare this: http://paste.openttd.org/127with this: http://paste.openttd.org/128
02:53<Ev> http://paste.openttd.org/127
02:53<Smoovious>that equasion is totally stupid, but the syntax is what I am asking about
02:54<Smoovious>compare what?
02:54<Ev>127 with 128
02:54<Smoovious>...
02:54<Smoovious>no
02:56<Rubidium>Chris82: the problem is that you can't properly estimate the cost of leveling without actually doing it, so overestimating is the best to do so you won't get a negative balance after leveling
02:56<Chris82>thanks for the info :)
02:57<Chris82>I have fixed all the bugs in diagonal levelling/terraform now :)
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02:57<dihedral>Chris82: well done :-)
02:57<Chris82>thx
02:57<dihedral>perhaps that would make it interesting for trunk - no?
02:57<Rubidium>hylje: what revision of trunk?
02:58<hylje>coop, 10343
02:58<Chris82>nah there are patches used that are working but the code looks ugly if you know what I mean
02:58<dihedral>yeah - know what you mean :-P
02:58<Rubidium>hylje: then I suspect YAPF
02:58<dihedral>Chris82: you could tidy up the code
02:59<Chris82>I removed and changed a lot of stuff already, but I am no coding style guru myself :D
02:59<dihedral>Chris82: or perhaps TrueBrain would do that once he is back :-P
02:59<Chris82>also I am busy with uni stuff right now, so improvements have to wait till afternoon
02:59<Rubidium>hylje: and I hope it is fixed in the next nightly
02:59<dihedral>Chris82: you have an svn repository for the work you do?
03:00<hylje>Rubidium: well see to it
03:00<Chris82>uhm no?
03:00<Chris82>I download trunk with TortoiseSVN and have a few local repositories from which I make my .diff files
03:00<dihedral>right
03:01<Chris82>is that what you meant?
03:01<dihedral>yes
03:01<Chris82>hmmm I hate limes functions
03:01<dihedral>limes?
03:02<dihedral>the mp3 limes?
03:02<Chris82>when I have x^4 / something smaller for x -> infinity, can I say the function goes towards infinity?
03:02<Chris82>that limes :p
03:02<guru3_>tends
03:02<guru3_>tends towards to infinity
03:02<oxygene_>well, simple math ;)
03:02<oxygene_>l'hopital etc.
03:02<Rubidium>question is: are the "repositories" just checkouts of trunk, or do you have your own version management system behind those "repositories"
03:02<Chris82>x^4 is obviously bigger than (x^2 - 1) |x| but the problem is I may not think so easily
03:03<Chris82>we had some weird e^xxx limes instead
03:03<oxygene_>i guess math is kind of offtopic here =)
03:03<Chris82>Rubidium: I have no version management system, I only have a trunk checkout which I edit and update with trunk updates
03:04<Chris82>lol yeah :p but I have to do some math exercices for uni right now :D
03:04<oxygene_>i have my final exam friday, so i should stop chatting and start doing something for it ;)
03:04[~]dihedral nods
03:05<dihedral>oxygene_: dont bust a final
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03:09<@peter1138>Smoovious: "/me > off" means i'm not here :p
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03:13<|Gekkko|>look who the cat dragged in
03:13|-||Gekkko| changed nick to Gekkko
03:13<Gekkko>dihedral.
03:13<Gekkko>lol
03:14<Manslay>i have a question
03:14<Manslay>why ottd shows negative profit for trains which transfer transit goods?
03:15<dihedral>whats up Gekkko
03:15<Gekkko>ih
03:15<Gekkko>hi
03:15<Gekkko>*
03:15<dihedral>hi
03:15<Gekkko>I hate Hannah Hoch.
03:15<dihedral>Manslay: searched the forums?
03:16<Manslay>nope
03:16<Manslay>just played the game :/
03:16<Manslay>i'm browsing wiki atm
03:16<Manslay>:D
03:17<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30098&highlight=negative+income+transfer
03:18<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=20710&highlight=negative+income+transfer
03:18<@peter1138>Ev: http://paste.openttd.org/129
03:18<dihedral>^^ might help
03:18<Manslay>thanks
03:19<dihedral>welcome :-)
03:19[~]dihedral has another 8 hours at work
03:19<Ev>peter1138: ...but with there was no duplication
03:19[~]dihedral is in need of sympathy
03:19<dihedral>:-P
03:19<@peter1138>what?
03:20<Ev>no triple duplication of code
03:20<@peter1138>you want it duplicated?
03:21<Ev>i want it be not duplicated
03:21<@peter1138>you have redundant checks for IsTileDepot() and is_new_steep
03:21<Ev>sorry :) but with marcos there was no duplication
03:21<Ev>lost 1 word
03:22<@peter1138>macros will NOT be accepted
03:22<@peter1138>the duplication was hidden in the macro
03:22<@peter1138>that is NOT good
03:23<Ev>then try this: compare http://paste.openttd.org/125 with http://paste.openttd.org/126
03:23<Gekkko>dihedral: get a second job
03:24<@peter1138>Ev: try fixing the code instead of just rolling out the macros
03:24<oxygene_>macros are evil
03:24<@peter1138>also note that removing macros could well mean adding functions
03:24<Ev>C/C++ does not support local functions
03:24<Ev>and functions make code more complex then macros
03:25<@peter1138>#
03:25<@peter1138>etTrackBits(ti
03:25<@peter1138>#
03:25<@peter1138>le) == TRACK_BIT_LEFT ) || ( GetTrackBits(tile) == TRACK_BIT_UPPER ) || ( GetTrackBits(tile) == TRACK_BIT_RIGHT )
03:25<@peter1138>not good
03:25<oxygene_>macros are not typesafe and a PITA to debug
03:25<@peter1138>that's all over the place
03:26<oxygene_>imho needing macros indicated a flaw in the whole design. one should fix the design instead of trying to hide the flaws by using macros
03:26<oxygene_>but then again, i'm not a dev here
03:27<@peter1138>oxygene_: you don't need to be a dev to be sensible ;)
03:27<oxygene_>i don't know what the "official" consensus here is
03:27<dihedral>Gekkko: why should i get a second job?
03:28<Gekkko>because you're lazy
03:28<Gekkko>"it will give you something to do"
03:28<Gekkko>"and stop you annoying me"
03:28<Gekkko>remind you of someone?
03:28<Gekkko>:)
03:28<dihedral>Gekkko: yeah right - me & lazy !
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03:30<Ev>macro removes code duplication that functions can not solve
03:31<Ev>and it does not make debugging harder
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03:32<Maedhros>it doesn't remove any duplication at all, it just hides it
03:32<oxygene_>this is not true in my opinion. you can remove code duplication with functions too
03:32<Maedhros>and macros don't show up in backtraces, for example
03:32<oxygene_>if you think you can't, then your design is bad
03:32<Ev>it "hides" duplication as "functions" hides
03:32<Maedhros>no, functions (unless the compiler inlines them) only appear once in the compiled code
03:33<oxygene_>yes, and functions have the advantage of being typesafe, come up in backtraces etc.
03:33<oxygene_>so no advantage for macros here
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03:34<Ev>functions have redundacy of typesafing and arguments
03:34<Ev>you can not solve this at all
03:34<oxygene_>well, you can just code everything in main()
03:34<oxygene_>this removes al redundancy
03:35<Maedhros>and makes writing the program in C(++) pretty much pointless :)
03:36<oxygene_>macros that work an variable names are the worst
03:36<hylje>OO supposedly work to reduce redundancy
03:36<hylje>through inheritance
03:36<oxygene_>refactoring such code is a pain
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03:46<Ev>i dont see again with what are you going to replace marcos besides saying that "it is flaw in design"
03:47<oxygene_>with functions? with oo design?
03:47<Ev>it can not be replaced with functions
03:48<oxygene_>i just can't think of an example where macros would be _needed_
03:48<Ev>any kind of redundancy
03:48<oxygene_>that is what functions and classes are for
03:49<Ev>marcos _are not_ function, hence it can not be replaced with it )))
03:49<oxygene_>right, they are not functions
03:49<oxygene_>but if your code is not clear without macros, you should refactor it instead of "fixing" it by adding macros
03:50<oxygene_>i don't see any advantage of macros above functions
03:50<@peter1138>macros do have their uses, but not here.
03:51<oxygene_>yup, like DEBUG-macros are useful for example
03:51<Ev>macros does not needs any arguments what does not change, it is the advantage if use it as function
03:52<Ev>and argument is _anything_, not just a variable
03:52<oxygene_>but when they do not take arguments but modify variables for example, they hide things and someone who is not familiar with it doesn't see this modification
03:53<oxygene_>if you call a function with &variable you just see that it might be modified by the function call
03:53<oxygene_>or when you rename a variable you get strange errors, because a macro assumes another variable name
03:53<Ev>guess it does not modify it, only use
03:54<oxygene_>source code needs to be verbose
03:55<@peter1138>looks like we will not convince Ev
03:55<@peter1138>but also we will not accept those macros
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03:56<Ev>i wont fix it as principle ))
03:56<oxygene_>arguments are never a problem. if you have too much of them, wrap'em in a struct/class and suddenly you have just one argument
03:56<oxygene_>lol
03:57<Ev>you can not wrap some into struct if they of different kind, it may mix of any kind )
03:58|-|TinoM| changed nick to TinoM
03:59<Chris82>Question:
03:59<Chris82> SDT_CONDVAR(Patches, finance_history, SLE_UINT8, IN_CHRISIN_SINCE(70), SL_MAX_VERSION, S, 0, 3, 3, MAX_HISTORY, 1, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_FINANCE_HISTORY, NULL),
03:59<Chris82> SLE_CONDARR(Player, yearly_expenses, SLE_INT64, MAX_HISTORY * 13, IN_CHRISIN_SINCE(70), SL_MAX_VERSION),
03:59<Chris82>I have these two patch lines
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03:59<oxygene__>stupid internet connection
03:59<Chris82>it should not be necessary that this patch is made COND as it uses flag S
03:59<oxygene__>if you've said something, i've missed it
04:00<Chris82>when I make it non-COND no savegame will load though with obscure errors like too many EngineRenews or Gamma Error or whatever
04:00<Maedhros>yearly_expenses at least has to be saved
04:01<@peter1138>yeah
04:01<Chris82>ah ok so the patch does indeed store something in the savegame?
04:01<@peter1138>finance history doesn't, as long as yearly_expenses is not dependent on it
04:01<Chris82>then flag S was misleading my thoughts
04:01<Chris82>those lines are from the same patch so they are "connected"
04:02<dihedral>Chris82: what patch is it?
04:02<Chris82>I was wondering why the patch uses flag S anyway because the author says the patch stores the history for up to 30 years in the savegame
04:02<dihedral>ah
04:02<Chris82>Longer Finance History: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21079
04:03<dihedral>right
04:03<Chris82>I had removed it from my IN first due to savegame problems which I fixed now through making both these patch options COND
04:03<Chris82>but I've been told several times already that a patch with flag S should not need to be COND
04:04<@peter1138>yes. that assumes the original author got it right :)
04:04<Chris82>when I make only the Array COND and not the Patch VAR I get errors
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04:05<Chris82>I think the problem is that only the value how long of a finance history you want is not saved, but the history itself is indeed saved
04:05<@peter1138>maybe them both COND and remove the S
04:05<@peter1138>s/maybe/make/
04:05<Chris82>which flag should I use instead of S ? 0 is wrong, since it's no server option
04:06<Chris82>and I tried N which made my game crash lol :D
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04:07<Chris82>let me quickly try something
04:11<Chris82>ok my mistake
04:11<Chris82>I can make the patch option itself VAR but the other part must be CONDARR because it's stored
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04:15<Chris82>Smoovious are you there?
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04:15<@peter1138>if finance_history is not saved, then you need to make sure that yearly_expenses is always the same size
04:16<Chris82>SLE_INT64, MAX_HISTORY * 13, < MAX_HISTORY * 13 is the size?
04:17<Chris82>3 * 13 in trunk
04:17<@peter1138>ah yes
04:17<Chris82>so no matter if I set the history to 1 or 30 there's always 30 * 13 saved only not everything is displayed
04:18<@peter1138>right
04:18<@peter1138>that's good then :)
04:20<Chris82>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/532 this is a very nice patch smoovious made there, maybe somebody wants to get it in trunk with little modification
04:20<Chris82>I especially like the idea of chat text duration being seconds and not game days, integrates nicely with daypatch then :D
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04:22<Smoovious>ya
04:22<Chris82>I renamed visible to duration in your diff file btw
04:22<Smoovious>I'll be posting an edit of it by tomorrow
04:23<Smoovious>just changing the name that peter1138 didn't like :P
04:23<@peter1138>what is "line" ?
04:23<@peter1138>shadow line
04:24<@peter1138>ah, is that the mode where it only shadows up to the end of the line?
04:24<Smoovious>the shadow is the same length as the individual lines
04:24<@peter1138>right
04:24<Smoovious>not the full widtht of the chat box
04:25<Chris82>I think I put it in my next IN :) I really like this patch and I don't think there should be any complications with it
04:25<@peter1138>///< added in r10254 by TrueLight
04:25<@peter1138>heh
04:25<Smoovious>yeah... I dunno what they were for. :)
04:25<@peter1138>don't bother commenting them then :)
04:25<Smoovious>one of my conflict-resolution builds had them missing cuz I didn't notice they were different when I resolved the conflict
04:26<@peter1138>the history will show it as him
04:26<@peter1138>hmm, time_t
04:26<Smoovious>well, I think that was more for me... planned on replacing them once I found out what their function was
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04:27<Chris82>time_t is a data type in C ?
04:27<Smoovious>could probably change <time.h> to a "time.h" but I have no experience with custom files
04:27<Smoovious>it has to be... I found it in the manual pages
04:27<Smoovious>:D
04:27<@peter1138>you can use _realtime_tick now
04:27<@peter1138>it is in milliseconds, i believe
04:28<Maedhros>Chris82: it's not a native type like int, but it's part of the C specification, i think
04:28<Smoovious>it came with vc2005
04:29<Chris82>ah thanks :)
04:30<Chris82>I tend to program too much C style my tutor in Java Class said lol :D
04:30<Chris82>but that's probably because I only program C in real life and no Java
04:30<Smoovious>peter1138... if _realtitme_tick stops incrementing when the game is paused, then I'll probably switch to it...
04:30<Smoovious>I don't do java
04:31<@peter1138>hmm
04:31<Chris82>well it's the language we use this semester, it's a lot better than Haskell :D what we used before
04:31<@peter1138>why should change messages stay on screen when it's paused?
04:31<@peter1138>i know they do currently, but that's a bug imho
04:31<@peter1138>s/change/chat
04:31<Chris82>I agree with peter
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04:31<Chris82>a paused game shouldn't lead to "paused" chat
04:32<Smoovious>well, because the routine that checks for old messages, doesn't run when it is paused...
04:32<Smoovious>dailyloop
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04:32<@peter1138>that can be changed too :)
04:32<Smoovious>that's why I would change it if _realtime_tick only increments when thhe game isn't paused
04:33<Chris82>does anybody of you know the Better/New Graphs patch?
04:33<Chris82>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31984
04:33<Smoovious>so long as it isn't running 200 times per second... it isn't something that needs to be checked more often than once a second
04:33<Chris82>I was wondering why some people have problems with badly redrawed graphics
04:35<Chris82>hahahahahahaha omg
04:35<eekee>visuals matter to some people *shrug*
04:36<Chris82>my dad just called me and asked when are you born? 2/9/1984? Which is totally wrong of course
04:36<Chris82>omg lol
04:36<dihedral>Chris82: never mind - my dad calles by my brothers name
04:37<@peter1138>1982, i'd guess ;p
04:37<Smoovious>visuals can get to be too much tho... if it was a choice between nice visuals, and giving some up in return for better gameplay, the visuals are out the door
04:37<Maedhros>my mum and dad have been known to call me by my cat's name before...
04:39<Chris82>right guess and 9/9 not 2/9
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04:40<Smoovious>ok, welp... I guess nested trinaries don't work, so back to rewrite...
04:40<Chris82>Smoovious: The problem with the Newgraphs patch is that especially Linux users (without DirectDraw obviously) have huge empty blocks in the lines with the graphs
04:40<Chris82>that looks ugly
04:40<Chris82>on Windows XP those bugs are minimal and on Vista they are almost vanished
04:40<Smoovious>never saw i t I don't think
04:40<Chris82>I just try to re-add it to the code and maybe fix some stuff
04:41<Chris82>but I can test with linux only at university, I don't have it on my home PC
04:41<Chris82>so when the graphs look perfect on Windows it means nothing
04:43<Chris82>how does Linux handle stuff that is handled by DirectDraw in Windows actually?
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04:46<Smoovious>welp... I'm crashing... dig back into my patches when I get up
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04:52<Chris82>uhm there are strings for Gold and Diamond mine in the default English file?
04:52<Chris82>do they exist in non temperate landscape?
04:53<Maedhros>the gold mine is an arctic industry, and diamonds are in tropic
04:53<Chris82>:)
04:54[~]Chris82 plays too much temperate
04:55<Maedhros>so do i :)
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05:01<@peter1138>Chris82: all graphics code is abstracted. direct draw is only used to update dirty rectangles from the video buffer to the screen
05:01<Chris82>was GetPlayerNameString replaced by something?
05:01<@peter1138>yes, it was spuriously named, as it got the player number string, not the name
05:01<dihedral>Chris82: play some desert games - they are fun :-P
05:01<@peter1138>use SetDParam(0, playerindex);
05:02<@peter1138>or something like that
05:03<Chris82>so SetDParam(2, GetPlayerNameString(p->index, 3)); will become SetDParam(2, playerindex(p->index, 3)); ?
05:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10352 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp: -Fix: the network did not request the newgrf names of newgrfs that it couldn't find; it only wanted to request the newgrf names of newgrfs that where available locally and than were called "<Unknown>".
05:04<Chris82>'playerindex': identifier not found hmm
05:04<Chris82>or should I replace the stuff in () too?
05:05<@peter1138>errr
05:05<@peter1138>no
05:05<@peter1138>SetDParam(2, p->index);
05:06<@peter1138>however
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05:06<@peter1138>however you've probably got p->name_1 as 0, and p->name_2 as 1
05:06<@peter1138>so what you probably want really is SetDParam(0, p->index); SetDParam(1, p->index);
05:07<Chris82>this was the original code yeah:
05:07<Chris82>SetDParam(0, p->name_1);
05:07<Chris82> SetDParam(1, p->name_2);
05:07<Chris82> SetDParam(2, GetPlayerNameString(p->index, 3));
05:08<@peter1138>*nod*
05:08<@peter1138>replace it all with those two then
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05:10<@peter1138>hmm?
05:11<Chris82>worked fine :) thx
05:13<Chris82>!invalid string id 0 in GetString oops
05:13<@peter1138>:o
05:13<Chris82>happens when the 3rd player starts
05:15<Chris82>my mistake works now
05:16<Chris82>forgot a letter that didn't show a compile error :D
05:16<Chris82>and the new graphs actually draw perfectly the bug that is happening is that when farm fields are painted behind the graph, the graphs becomes a little messy
05:17<Chris82>but I think the improved functionality weighs more than the graph glitches
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05:25<Chris82>hmmm I thought industries can't go below 32 prod anymore in latest trunk?
05:25<Chris82>I have a 24 prod industry tho
05:25<@peter1138>that was changed
05:25<@peter1138>as it upset some stuff
05:25<Chris82>ah
05:25<@peter1138>like oil rigs usually have very low passenger production
05:26<Chris82>but why is it that iron ore mines are by far the worst producing industries on average?
05:26<Chris82>coal mines for example produce a lot more on average
05:26<@peter1138>luck probably
05:27<Chris82>it can't be luck, I had 20 games in a row like this
05:28<@peter1138>coal mines start out with more production, i think
05:29<Ailure>yeah they do
05:29<Ailure>coal mines tend to go into a huge production spree
05:30<Chris82>yeah coal mines are always by far the best producing industries in my games
05:30<Chris82>which is a little unbalanced I think because coal is already the best paid good / cargo unit
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05:31<Chris82>oh damn half past 12 =O gotta go
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06:06<Chris82>http://www.sandra-bullock.co.uk/images/openttd/weirdbridge.png that bridge is a little misplaced :D
06:06<Ailure>well
06:06<Ailure>the AI lows elevated bridges I noticed too
06:06<@peter1138>hehe
06:06<Ailure>eh loves
06:07<Ailure>it's funny though
06:07<Ailure>it somehow manage to adapt some of the new features
06:07<Ailure>but in a such stupid way
06:07<@peter1138>that's because the old ai doesn't know it can link road pieces up to form networks
06:07<Ailure>yeah true
06:07<@peter1138>but it can build that bridge
06:07<Ailure>the AI reinvents the wheel
06:07<Ailure>every time
06:08<Ailure>when it comes to road networks
06:08<Chris82>well I usually don't play with AI anyway, I am only testing my patched version for long time stability :D
06:08<Ailure>I seen games where the whole center of a town is ruined becuse of a road-happy AI
06:08<@peter1138>"I've"
06:09<Chris82>btw on this screenshot you can see how nice the new graphs can look in Vista :p
06:10<Chris82>someone else sent me a screenshot from Ubuntu where that graph looked totally distorted
06:10<Gekkko>lol Chris82 is back
06:10<Gekkko>how goes "Found new town" ?
06:10<Chris82>:p not implemented at the moment
06:10<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/o/opengl13.png < smooth graphs!
06:10<Chris82>I'll give it a look now
06:10<Gekkko>Chris82: update it for the latest nightly at least for me
06:10<Gekkko>please
06:10<@peter1138>(aka blurry)
06:10<Gekkko>because I needs it
06:11<Chris82>peter: What town replacement set do you use?
06:11<@peter1138>ttrs3 that is
06:11<Chris82>hmmm let me check my version of TTRS because mine looks totally different
06:12<@peter1138>well the colour remapping is wrong there
06:12<Chris82>hmm 3.02a
06:13<Chris82>looks a bit like simutrans on that screenshot D
06:14<Chris82>btw... http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Enhanced_-_Graphics_Creation#Industries
06:15<Chris82>The authors are great artists and so, but I hope that OpenTTD will never look like this by default !!
06:15<Chris82>it would be like making Total Annihilation a DirectX 10 game eeek
06:16<hylje>a matter of style
06:16<Chris82>TTRS as default selt to replace graphics from the original game are great imho, this 32-bit stuff is not needed
06:16<hylje>yes it is
06:16<Chris82>I mean OpenTTD is no 3D Shooter for graphics freaks :D
06:16<hylje>better graphics make the game easier to approach
06:16<hylje>thus more potential contributors
06:17<Maedhros>i don't agree with that
06:17<Chris82>well but better is a way of view... imho TTRS graphics are much better than such 3D stuff
06:17<Chris82>these 3D graphics look complex and complicated compared to the current graphics
06:18<Chris82>I don't want to offend the authors in any way, they indeed look great and they are good artists but it's just not what I am looking forward to in OTTD
06:18<hylje>complicated? details?
06:18<hylje>you can just not mind the details, but i think details make the graphics
06:18<Chris82>yeah too much 3D detail is just distracting
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06:19<hylje>nope
06:19<Chris82>I play Oblivion if I want nice graphics or something like that
06:19<Chris82>in OpenTTD I want an entertaining simulation
06:19<hylje>why dont you want both?
06:19<Chris82>because if OpenTTD had Oblivion graphics I would sit on a hill and watch the game happening instead of making the game happen :D
06:20<@peter1138>hehe
06:20<Chris82>I know bad comparison, but you get my point hopefully
06:20<hylje>you can do that, but it doenst prevent you from doing stuff you do now
06:20<Chris82>Oblivion is a look and fight game, OpenTTD is a build and think game
06:20<hylje>high up camera
06:20<hylje>instead of first person
06:20<Chris82>yes of course it doesn't but instead of investing time in this I would use it for other stuff
06:21<elmex>openttd is a point&click game :_>
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06:21<@peter1138>investing time is not really a good argument
06:21<@peter1138>the people who do the 'other stuff' aren't the people making the graphics
06:21<Chris82>yeah that's true
06:22<Sacro>hmm, with timetables can trains wait at a waypoint?
06:22<hylje>i suppose
06:22<@peter1138>hmm, oblivion is pretty
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06:22<Chris82>yeah, but gameplay sucks :D
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06:22<Chris82>it's only nice to look at lol
06:22<@peter1138>:o
06:23<hylje>contary to popular belief you can have very nice graphics and very nice gameplay
06:23<Chris82>the first version was so full of bugs and the whole gui looks like a console game
06:23<Chris82>I don't want that on my PC
06:23<hylje>it *is* a console game
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06:23<Chris82>consoles are for little children :D
06:23<hylje>like the nintendo consoles?
06:23<Chris82>well nice graphics and nice gameplay in an example slightly comparable to OpenTTD would be Sim City 4
06:24<Chris82>I really like Sim City 4 graphics so if OpenTTD would look a little like that I wouldn't mind
06:24<hylje>i recall most of the people playing them and buying games for them are 20+
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06:24<Chris82>but half-hearted non-perfectly looking 3D graphics are no joy for my eye :D I am a perfectionist :p
06:24<hylje>sc4 graphics are very detailed
06:25<Chris82>Nintendo Wii is maybe nice, but look at a PS3, buying this is wasted money imho, you can get a decent PC for that price
06:25<Sacro>i do like SC4
06:25<Sacro>yes, but consoles are the future D:
06:25<Chris82>yeah SC4 is a cool game
06:25<Sacro>everyone seems up on this "HD" idea
06:25<Chris82>well I'd prefer a laptop that has the power of my PC to a console
06:25<Sacro>but i've had 1024x768 for... 11ish years
06:25<Chris82>consoles are too expensive for what they can do
06:26<@peter1138>http://www.scan.co.uk/todayonly/
06:26<@peter1138>rofl
06:26<Sacro>ooh
06:26<@peter1138>last item in the super savers section
06:26<Sacro>i might buy that wifi card
06:26<hylje>Sacro: ive been enjoying 1600x1200 for some years now
06:26<Sacro>hylje: yeah... me too
06:26<Sacro>i got a 19" tft back in 2002
06:26<hylje>hd is overrated
06:26<Chris82>Nissan Skyline? lol
06:26<Sacro>though i'm down to 1280x1024 now :(
06:27<Sacro>hylje: 1280p would be nice
06:27<Chris82>hylje: I agree with you especially in the TV sector
06:27<Sacro>but anything less doesn't interest me
06:27<@peter1138>Chris82: innit
06:27<hylje>in the so-called console wars nintendo got it, everyone else just done past generation next generation
06:27<Chris82>I mean who of us can afford a good 1080p LCD TV :D
06:27<Sacro>ah yes, 1080p
06:27<hylje>a good 1080p capable display is about 700+
06:27<Sacro>i was 4096p
06:27<@peter1138>a snip at £25,999
06:27<Sacro>s/was/want/
06:27<dihedral>Chris82: check out http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/example.sb.php
06:27<Chris82>4096p ? what's that lol
06:28<Sacro>peter1138: WTF
06:28<Sacro>:o
06:28<hylje>of your
06:28<hylje>Chris82: movies are filmed at that IIRC
06:28<Sacro>Nissan Skyline GTR R34 VSpec Super Car T reg 1999 - 420BHP MINT! + Many Extra's - see specs - Limited Stock!
06:28<Chris82>4096p ?? are you sure
06:28<hylje>yes
06:28<Sacro>Chris82: i think so
06:28<Sacro>something like that
06:29<Chris82>hmmm I thought HD cameras are 1920x1200 (1080p)
06:29<Sacro>ah
06:29<hylje>usually movies are filmed in the "next generation" of consumer tech
06:29<Sacro>UHDV 7680*4320
06:29<@peter1138>"Notice to all Scan Staff - Not Available on Loan File for Evaluation or Testing in Technical Dept!!"
06:29<@peter1138>hehe
06:29<hylje>it's 4K for now
06:29<Chris82>dihedral: hey that looks nice :D
06:29<Sacro>hehe
06:29<Chris82>is the layout customizable?
06:29<Sacro>peter1138: i wonder how they'll deliver it
06:30<Sacro>i can't see DHL fitting that in a van
06:30<hylje>and for all you know, movie theaters push a bit higher resolutions than your basic HD
06:30<dihedral>sure is
06:30<dihedral>used HTML_Template_SIigma
06:30<Sacro>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/UHDV.svg
06:30<hylje>Sacro: omg :D
06:30<Chris82>well I have a simple old 72 cm TV which can't profit from HD anyway
06:30<Sacro>194GB/min
06:30<Sacro>uncompressed
06:30<Gekkko>scalable vector graphics make my pc lag
06:31<Chris82>before I buy anything like Blu-Ray (I go for HD DVD probably anyway) I need to wait a few years till I have an LCD TV :D
06:31<hylje>Gekkko: no, rasterization makes it lag
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06:31<Gekkko>no shit
06:31<Sacro>i have an LCD tv
06:31<Gekkko>i was talking about the format
06:31<hylje>yes shit
06:31<Sacro>well...
06:31<Sacro>LCD monitor with a dvb card
06:31<hylje>svg just makes it feasible to make huge images
06:31<hylje>try viewing a 7680 x 4320 png
06:32|-|dihedral_ changed nick to dihedral|laptop
06:32<Chris82>I have a 150000x30000 tiff here :D
06:32<dihedral|laptop>nice
06:32<Chris82>printed a banned on my dads plotter from that file lol
06:32<Chris82>banner*
06:32<Chris82>dihedreal: From when are those readings?
06:33<Sacro>peter1138: notice they can't pluralise tyre
06:33<hylje>printing works stuff tends to get crazy
06:33<Rubidium>:( my poor laptop only does 1920x1200... I want that biggest one ;)
06:34<Chris82>only 1920? how big is that screen :D
06:34<Chris82>my eyes would hurt after reading longer text at such a resolution
06:34<Rubidium>15.4 inch
06:34<Chris82>btw Sacro, how does your Desktop look on the LCD TV?
06:34<Chris82>is it readable? or haven't you checked yet
06:35<Chris82>I don't have a DVD player, I have only my PC connected to the TV and sound system and on a normal TV the desktop looks ugly and unsharp
06:35<Rubidium>Chris82: for me it's readable... others don't always agree with me ;)
06:35<Chris82>hehe :)
06:35<Chris82>you have good eyes
06:37<Sacro>Chris82: its not a tv
06:37<Sacro>its an LCD monitor with DVB tuner
06:37<Sacro>oh, it might not be LCD
06:37<hylje>Rubidium: heh people say the same thing for my 1600x1200 15.4" lappy
06:37<Chris82>ohhhh, got you wrong then, at my PC I have an LCD since 2000 I think, but it's way too small to use it for watching DVDs or TV
06:39<eekee>hylje: I'm jealous :)
06:39<hylje>Rubidium: btw, what model of display you have?
06:39<Rubidium>model?
06:39<hylje>brand, model
06:39<hylje>out of curiosity
06:41<Rubidium>how do you get that from a LCD embedded in a laptop?
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06:41<hylje>a laptop model is fine too
06:42<eekee>I so want a 130ppi LCD. Not before openttd has greater zoom though lol
06:42<Rubidium>(II) intel(0): Manufacturer: LPL Model: 0 Serial#: 0
06:43<Jerub>http://trinket.thorne.id.au/~stephen/money.png
06:43<Jerub>is that a known bug?
06:43<Jerub>I have >2billion dollars
06:43<@peter1138>nice
06:44<Rubidium>Jerub: what version?
06:44<hylje>eekee: this one's 133ppi
06:44<eekee>Ack! I have >8bil pounds in one game & dont' see that. Let me get the version #
06:44<eekee>hylje: sweeeet hehe
06:45<eekee>mine's r10076 on a mac
06:46<Jerub>uh, 0.5.2-rc1
06:46<Jerub>on osx.
06:46<SmatZ>:) eekee try loading it with some newer version
06:47<Rubidium>Jerub: and in 0.5.2?
06:47<Rubidium>and can you give me a link to that savegame?
06:47<Jerub>sure.
06:47<eekee>Rubidium: sure, give me a min to shunt it over from the ibook
06:47<Jerub>http://trinket.thorne.id.au/~stephen/billions.sav
06:48<Jerub>and no laughing at my amateurish rail networks :p
06:48<Rubidium>Jerub: are you using a PPC iBook?
06:49<Jerub>powermac g5.
06:49<Jerub>so PPC64.
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06:51<Rubidium>it shows fine for me
06:51<Sacro>ooh
06:51<Sacro>nice buffer overflow
06:52<Jerub>okay, probably fixed in 0.5.2
06:52<Jerub>I'll grab that and see.
06:53<Sacro>looks fine in 0.5.2
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06:53<Jerub>intercontinental airports feel like cheating
06:53<Chris82>looks fine in ChrisIN as well :D
06:54<Sacro>looks fine in r10295 too
06:54<eekee>that ganton transport of mine has 24 planes in an intercontinental, & it's not enough to shift the goods from that factory :D
06:54<SmatZ>works for me in latest release, but I don't have PPC...
06:54<Jerub>you shift goods by plane?
06:55<Chris82>just wanted to ask the same
06:55<eekee>yeah, they're pay well for fast transport, y'see
06:55<Chris82>I never use planes for any cargo except mail and valuables
06:55<Chris82>how much is your yearly income with a goods plane?
06:55<eekee>ok who wants the £8bill savegame?
06:55<Jerub>nope, still displays wrong in 0.5.2
06:56<Chris82>meme :) I like all kind of "extreme" savegames to test
06:56<Jerub>eekee: me, thanks.
06:56<Sacro>heh
06:56<Sacro>i remember when RichK got over £4G
06:56<Sacro>and the graph went over and came back on at the bottom
06:56<Chris82>Jerub: Your game shows fine on 0.5.2 Win32
06:57<@peter1138>need a bjarni to test it?
06:57<Sacro>no, he smells
06:57<SmatZ>Jerub: PPC uses the big-endian data format, doesn't it?
06:58<Sacro>is it Intel or PPC OSX?
06:58<Chris82>I was thinking of a "foundation" patch where you can give all your money too cancer research :D
06:58<Sacro>cos i have Intel here
06:58<Sacro>Chris82: to
06:58<Chris82>that will solve ultra much money bugs
06:58<Jerub>the problem I'm experiencing is on PPC64
06:58<eekee>Rubidium: Did you want a copy of mine too? I thought you did, but can't see it in the scrollback
06:58<Chris82>Jerub: Maybe it's a bug in the architecture?
06:59<Rubidium>eekee: no, not needed
06:59<eekee>ok cool
06:59<Rubidium>anyway, it sounds like a PPC64 problem
06:59<eekee>Chris82: after 100 years of inflation, £10mil to £20mill a year :D
06:59<Jerub>MD5 (ganton.sav) = 19519219e88fa34a54e99d0fd8b06b72
06:59<Jerub>is that right? I can't load that game.
07:00<Chris82>is your CPU 64-bit only?
07:00<Chris82>or what does the 64 stand for
07:01<Jerub>it does 32 and 64 bit.
07:01<Sacro>64Mhz
07:01<Sacro>its quite slow
07:01<eekee>Jerub: it's right
07:02<Chris82>I think we have PCs with PowerPC architecture at uni, I can try your savegame there
07:02<Chris82>I don't even see the bug here with the same version as yours
07:02<Jerub>okay, I just established that I can spend the money required to get it down to 2,123,xxx,yyy which displays fine
07:03<Chris82>that's the highest number you can display with 32-bit integers
07:03<Chris82>or am I wrong?
07:03<Chris82>2^31-1
07:03<Jerub>2147483647
07:03<SmatZ>it is 2 097 142
07:03<SmatZ>-1
07:03<SmatZ>oh sorry :D
07:03<Chris82>Jerub is right
07:03<eekee>Jerub: Looks fine on my ibook under r10076
07:03<SmatZ>yup /me goes back to basic school
07:03<eekee>(Mine's a 466MHz G3)
07:03<Jerub>eekee: I wonder if it's an architecture bug.
07:04<Chris82>maybe that is your problem Jerub, as soon as it goes above a 32-bit int you get the bug?
07:04<Rubidium>Jerub: does the company value show correctly?
07:04<Jerub>Rubidium: no
07:04<eekee>Jerub: have you tried a recent nightly?
07:04<Jerub>Rubidium: and the number at the bottom of the screen is wrong too
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07:07<dihedral>eekee: i never had a prob in displaying anything in OS X
07:08<Rubidium>dihedral: you aren't using PPC64 I guess
07:08<dihedral>G4 :-)
07:08<eekee>dihedral: me niether
07:08<Sacro>--- industry_cmd.c (revision 1787)
07:08<eekee>oh a PPC64bug... hmmm, I guess
07:08<Sacro>someone has a challenge
07:08<Sacro>@openttd commit 1787
07:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Commit by truelight :: r1787 /trunk (4 files) (2005-02-04 14:45:32 UTC)
07:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: -Add: Dynamic signs (euh.. yeah, this means you can built 64k signs)
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07:09<dihedral>Rubidium: i had a look at that udp grf query
07:10<dihedral>i thought i just had to send the query and got the hole lot
07:10[~]eekee heads out
07:10[~]dihedral waves
07:11[~]eekee waves :)
07:11<Rubidium>Jerub: can you compile OTTD yourself?
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07:14<Rubidium>http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/ppc64-bug.diff <- that might possibly solve the issue, but it's a very long shot
07:15<Jerub>sure.
07:15<Rubidium>that patch is against 0.5
07:16<Rubidium>and the problem should already be solved in trunk, but that has another cause ;)
07:16<Jerub>just building trunk now
07:16<Rubidium>however, please test trunk too, because if it happens in trunk too, them my fix won't fix it :(
07:16<Rubidium>I hope it actually builds a ppc970 binary for you
07:22<@peter1138>Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "SASL authentication failure: client didn't issue valid NTLM response"
07:22<@peter1138>:o
07:23<dihedral>nice peter1138
07:24<hylje>whack
07:24[~]Jerub waits for the compile to complete.
07:25<Jerub>this is literally the first time I've considered booting up the faster mac, in 3 months
07:25<hylje>the faster mac?
07:27<Jerub>it displays fine in trunk
07:27<Jerub>so it's obviously a bug that's been fixed.
07:27<Jerub>I can't be bothered going back to 0.5.2 and applying the patch though
07:27<@peter1138>dihedral: yeah, client isn't using 'secure password authentication' so it shouldn't be using NTLM...
07:29<dihedral>has there actually been any process on some type of authing players?
07:29<dihedral>*progress
07:30<@peter1138>no
07:30<@peter1138>that result 1 of 1 is in furrin too :/
07:34<Gekko>lolol
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07:36<Chris82>Gekko
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07:36<Chris82>The found town patch does not compile with Visual Studio
07:36<Chris82>:p
07:36<Chris82>and I doubt it will with gcc with the current nightly
07:36<Gekko>lol
07:36<Gekko>?
07:37<Chris82>I'll look into it later, I have to go biking now :D
07:37<Gekko>i compiled openttd nihghtly on gcc
07:37<Gekko>Chris82: are u Dutch :P
07:37<Chris82>Austrian
07:37<Gekko>bike country:)
07:37<Chris82>ski country :p
07:37<Gekko>i know, joke.
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08:12[~]dihedral is bored
08:12[~]dihedral is also tired
08:12<Gekko>sex me
08:12<Gekko>lol
08:14<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
08:14<_42_>Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 16 hours 31 minutes ago (26.06. 20:42) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 3 hours 1 minute there.
08:14<Sacro>hmmm
08:15<dihedral>Gekko: that's just gross
08:17<Sacro>yes
08:18<Sacro>you've not been here long enough to be sexed
08:19[~]dihedral wonders if he has been here long enough to have Sacro sex him
08:20<Gekko>lol
08:22<dihedral>Rubidium: r10352 what does it do?
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>!openttd commit 10352
08:22<_42_>Commit by rubidium :: r10352 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp (2007-06-27 10:02:55 UTC)
08:22<_42_>-Fix: the network did not request the newgrf names of newgrfs that it couldn't find; it only wanted to request the newgrf names of newgrfs that where available locally and than were called "<Unknown>".
08:23<Sacro>ooh thats damned handy
08:23<Sacro>dihedral: it tells you which grfs are missing
08:23<Sacro>rather than "Unknown"
08:23<dihedral>cool
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08:23<Sacro>which is a bit crappy for shoving into grfcrawler
08:24<dihedral>in what way?
08:24<hylje>looking for Unknowns is always fun
08:24<Gekko>grfcrawler lacks grfs
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>ever tried to search for "unknown"?
08:25<dihedral>grfcrawler points to where you get the grf
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>ever found what you were looking for that way?
08:25<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause: searched for "unknown' or 1=1 --"
08:25<Gekko>search *
08:25<Gekko>lol
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08:29<Gekko>who wants my number
08:31<dihedral>Gekko: /dev/null
08:33<Gekko>llol,
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08:38<dihedral>Gekko: no - seriously
08:38<Gekko>lol
08:38<dihedral>:-)
08:38<Gekko>eat a shoe#
08:39<dihedral>lol - never heard that one before
08:39<Gekko>lol
08:40<dihedral>Gekko: i am sure /dev/zero will eat the shoe
08:40<hylje>clever
08:41<dihedral>hylje: what is?
08:42<Rubidium>dihedral: I'm pretty sure it won't; zero only produces, it doesn't consume
08:43<Ailure>maybe he's referring to /dev/null?
08:43<dihedral>Ailure: i mentioned /dev/null before...
08:44<Gekko>if you dd zero to shoe
08:44<Gekko>zero eats shoe
08:44<dihedral>Rubidium: then echo "foo" > /dev/zero if you like
08:45<Ailure>heh
08:45<Ailure>I remember reading about ways to ruin a system with /dev/null
08:46<Gekko>how?
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08:47<dihedral>Rubidium: quote from 'man zero'
08:47<dihedral> Data written on a null or zero special file is discarded
08:47<Ailure>hmm
08:47<Ailure>or maybe it was zero
08:47<Rubidium>it should error imo ;)
08:47<Rubidium>ooh, ugly kernel source
08:47<Rubidium>#define write_zero write_null
08:47<Gekko>Rubidium: does null write nul chars and zero writer 0?
08:47<dihedral>the only diff is that reading from /dev/null returns End Of File
08:48<dihedral>whereas reading from /dev/zero returns \0
08:48<Rubidium>Gekko: /dev/null only eats, it doesn't produce anything
08:48<Gekko>oh.
08:48<Gekko>yummy.
08:48<dihedral>Rubidium: that is not correct
08:49<dihedral>http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man4/zero.4.html
08:49<Rubidium>yes, I saw zero consumes too, but that wrong in my opinion
08:50<Ailure>heh
08:50<Ailure>end of file
08:50<Gekko>EOF
08:51<dihedral>Rubidium: fatcs and your opinion aint always the same ;-)
08:51<Ailure>heh
08:51<Ailure>I remember using a EOT charcther in a program I used once for transferring stuff over serial connection D:
08:52<NukeBuster>How do i subtract from an commandcost?
08:52<Rubidium>logically zero shouldn't consume anything, otherwise null is totally redundant
08:52<dihedral>Ailure: is that not the same as EOF?
08:52<Ailure>No diea
08:52<Ailure>for the program it didn't matter
08:52<dihedral>Rubidium: http://www.die.net/doc/linux/abs-guide/zeros.html
08:52<Ailure>as I programmed it, I could use what charcther I wanted to signify whenever transmisison was over
08:53<Ailure>and that it used a escpae charcther icnase it wanted to send the EOT charcther without aboriting the transmission
08:53<hylje>http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2315/hehgf8.jpg
08:53<Rubidium>dihedral: I know, but... it isn't logical
08:54<Ailure>wth are they doing there
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08:54<Rubidium>Ailure: being stupid
08:54<Rubidium>i.e. placing those 7 poles
08:55<Phazorx>... arounf them, thus blocking the exit
08:55<Ailure>oh
08:55<Ailure>hahaha
08:55<Ailure>yeah I see it now
08:56<SmatZ>lol THANKS for explanation :)
08:56<SmatZ>I though they were cleaning the pavement :)
08:57<Ailure>heh
08:57<Phazorx>yeah.. cleaners are now equiped with new jumping vans
08:57<Ailure>that part about creating a empty file
08:57<Ailure>might be useful for us ROM hackers
08:57<Ailure>no needs for a ROM expander
08:57<Ailure>just append zeroes to the end of a file
08:58<Gekko>:)
08:58<Gekko>pokemon lol.
08:58<hylje>rom = pokemon
08:58<Ailure>D:
08:58<Ailure>hush no
08:58<Ailure>Mostly Super Mario world for some reason
08:58<Gekko>liar
08:59<Gekko>lol
08:59<hylje>lol, wut?
08:59<@peter1138>might just fit between the two bottom poles
08:59<Ailure>I even made my own editor for snake rattle n roll D:
08:59<Ailure>and hacking machine code of a program is fun
08:59<hylje>this is machine code
09:00<hylje>http://hylje.fi/files/machine-code
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>they once made a processor that had prolog as machine code :)
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09:01<hylje>how perverted
09:01<Gekko>ouch
09:01<Ailure>heh
09:01<Gekko>was it called Ugly Stick?
09:01<Ailure>there's also a fictional processor
09:01<Gekko>log? stick?
09:01<Gekko>lol
09:01<Ailure>with only one insturction
09:01<Ailure>that is turing complete
09:02<Eddi|zuHause2>that is easy :)
09:02<Ailure>gotta be a hell to program though
09:02<Eddi|zuHause2>something like "calculate c:=a-b and jump to x if c==zero"
09:03<Eddi|zuHause2>where a,b and c would be registers (infinite amount)
09:03<Ailure>yeah
09:04<Ailure>it was a rather complex insturction
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09:04<Ailure>http://194.47.44.201/PRG99.asm
09:04<Eddi|zuHause2>we had to do some funny programs with that :)
09:04<Ailure>good ol 6502
09:04<Gekko>Grand Theftendo
09:04<Ailure>There's something charming with simple processors
09:04<Gekko>vapourware
09:04<Ailure>this 6502 programs runs on a NES :p
09:04<Ailure>heh
09:04<Ailure>yeah
09:04<Ailure><<
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09:04<Gekko>made me cry
09:04<Ailure>Seems like tha tproject went nowhere
09:05<Ailure>hmm
09:05<Ailure>haha
09:05<Ailure>I have a tendancy to design my assembly programs top-down
09:06<Ailure>eh, I guess that's not too unusual if you're used to programming in C-like programming languages
09:06<hylje>:
09:06<hylje>o
09:06<Phazorx>http://www.webpark.ru/uploads48/pole_2.jpg NoAI branch tests in holland
09:06<Ailure>rofl
09:07<Rubidium>Phazorx: you wrote a pretty bad AI ;)
09:07<oxygene_>did someone steal a tank?
09:07<SmatZ>lol
09:07<Phazorx>Rubidium: i beg to differ my AI is quite efficient in different games tho
09:07<Ailure>the most advanced AI I done
09:08<Ailure>is something along "walk towards position X/Y"
09:08<Ailure>aka very stupid
09:08<Gekko>AI x,y x++ y++
09:08<Gekko>lol
09:08<Gekko>i was right
09:08<Ailure>heh
09:08<Gekko>hahaha
09:08<Ailure>such AI is funny though
09:08<Ailure>it keeps walking into walls
09:08<Gekko>lol
09:09<Gekko>wormlet
09:09<hylje>well
09:09<Gekko>artificial stupidity
09:09<@Belugas>Phazorx, i have to apologize from yesterday's comemnts. I made an error. Primary industries can be closed down. There is everything needed for that.
09:09<Gekko>he called it that
09:09<@Belugas>It was an error of flag naming, from way back
09:09<hylje>simple ai is like "walk towards v, change direction by x when colliding"
09:09<Phazorx>Belugas:everything aside of it happening in games?
09:09<@Belugas>So, yes, Rubidium was right from the start
09:10<Phazorx>well what you mean is it was intended but not correctly executed
09:10<@Belugas>current ingame had a bug, fixed by Rubidium
09:10<Phazorx>i see... yet the behavior was that they were not closing which is what i commented on
09:10<Eddi|zuHause2>"1985: the first FGCS hardware known as the Personal Sequential Inference Machine (PSI) and the first version of the Sequentual Inference Machine Programming Operating System (SIMPOS) operating system is released. SIMPOS is programmed in Kernel Language 0 (KL0), a concurrent prolog-variant with object oriented extensions."
09:11<Phazorx>as well as not having balanced changes
09:11<Gekko>Ailure: look up GTendo
09:11<Gekko>see if it returned
09:12<@Belugas>Phazorx, i just mentionned what i've found yesterady. I rest my case and I go back to work@work
09:12<dihedral>hello Belugas
09:13<Phazorx>thanks for the notice Belugas :)
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09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10353 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix/Feature [FS#669]: disallow (in the GUI) the building of infrastructure you
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: do not have available vehicles for. This means that the airport building button
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: is disabled till you can actually build aircraft. The game itself will not
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: disallow you to build the infrastructure and this "new" behaviour can be
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: overriden with a patch setting.
09:19<Biff>hmm, if i set up a dedicated server, can it be admined somehow?
09:20<guru3>rcon
09:20<Biff>ah
09:20<Biff>so i have to do it command-based?
09:21<dihedral>yes
09:21<Biff>how is the password defined?
09:21<dihedral>in the openttd.cfg file
09:21<dihedral>you can use the console of the dedicated server though too - so you do not have to be connected to the game
09:21<Biff>i see
09:22<dihedral>win or linux
09:22<Biff>linux
09:22<Ailure>well heh
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09:23<Ailure>the grandtheftendo authors site is ded
09:23<Ailure><<
09:23<Ailure>http://neshla.sourceforge.net/ is the only thing related to him that is up
09:24<Ailure>high-level assembler? Part of the charm with programming for 6502 is the low-level. :V
09:27<dihedral>Biff: you start your dedicated server with screen
09:27<Biff>hmm, yeah, i figured
09:27<Biff>then i need to learn alot of commands :P
09:27<dihedral>whenever you need access to the console of the server ssh or local login
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09:28<Biff>i see
09:28<dihedral>screen -x will get you into your screen session
09:29<dihedral>ctrl+a ctrl+d will detach you from your screen session
09:29<dihedral>for console commands see http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Console
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09:35<Biff>thanks
09:35<Biff>seems not to be that many commands
09:35<Biff>eg set map size for example is not mentioned
09:36<Biff>maybe it needs to be done in the config
09:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10354 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#950]: loading indicator showed "^" when the train would load at the given station.
09:43<Phazorx>Rubidium: wasnt that the idea to have arrow up if it loads or arrow down if it unloads?
09:43<Rubidium>would *not* load ;)
09:43<Rubidium>guess I forgot a word ;)
09:43<Phazorx>pretty much keyword
09:44<Phazorx>while you are on it - can it text be company color?
09:44<Rubidium>happens all the time
09:44<Phazorx>or any tother clor than white for starters?
09:44<Rubidium>any good reason for that?
09:44<Phazorx>hard to see on stations
09:44<Phazorx>that are mostly gray/white
09:44<Phazorx>if i can suggest - light cyan
09:45<Rubidium>isn't that going to be very ugly?
09:47<Phazorx>hmm... i dont see how
09:47<Phazorx>since only thing changed is clor
09:48<Phazorx>and most other train related numbers are colored
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09:48<Phazorx>green red or yellow
09:48<dihedral>Biff: map size is set in the config file
09:48<Rubidium>Biff: IIRC you can set map size as it's a patch option
09:48<dihedral>Rubidium: surly you cannot change map size in game?
09:49<dihedral>or do you mean just for the next game?
09:49<dihedral>Biff: see http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Openttd.cfg
09:49<Rubidium>well, I hope it sets it for the next game, but I'm not quite sure about it
09:50<Rubidium>Phazorx: cyan isn't possible
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09:50<dihedral>Rubidium: so far when i have changed a patch setting in game - it was back at original setting the next game
09:50<Phazorx>Rubidium: purple?
09:50<Phazorx>point being something different from background that text appears at
09:50<Rubidium>but that can also be purple
09:51<Phazorx>light bluish color would fit/complete green/red/yellow of other vehicle numbers
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09:54<hylje>http://xkcd.com/
09:55<Rubidium>light bluish is even more invisible that white
09:57<@Belugas>maybe a background, a-la-network-chat?
09:57<@Belugas>hello dihedral, by ther way :)
09:58<Rubidium>that's going to get annoying I guess
09:58<@peter1138>maybe leave it as is!
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10:00<Biff>hmm, timetable?
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10:04<dihedral>hmm, timetable, what?
10:05[~]dihedral is in his last hour of work for today
10:05<Eddi|zuHause2>hmm, timetable, what, trains?
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10:06<dihedral>hmm, timetable, what, trains, FORUM
10:06<dihedral>! :-)
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10:06<dihedral>Amler did not have the correct setting in his timetable :-P
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10:14<dihedral>wb
10:20<dihedral>40 mins left :-)
10:20<dihedral>how i am looking forward to 1800 CET
10:24<+glx>why?
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10:41<dihedral>glx: because then i can go home :-)
10:41<dihedral>hello Brianetta
10:42<@orudge>dihedral: your signature on the forums is rather large
10:42<@orudge>could you remove the graph?
10:42<@orudge>perhaps link to it instead?
10:44<dihedral>orudge: sure will do
10:45<dihedral>orudge: done :-)
10:45<@orudge>Ta
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10:48<@peter1138>orudge, your ego on the forums is rather large
10:48<@peter1138>but then i suppose that's what comes of being the SROTU
10:49<dihedral>ROFL
10:49<@orudge>Is it?
10:50<@orudge>Any particular examples? :p
10:50<@orudge>oh
10:50<@orudge>I get it.l
10:50<@orudge>I think.
10:50<@orudge>Anyway, I was asking dihedral as SROTU™ and administrator, because people had complained :p
10:51|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
10:52<Ailure>hmm
10:52<Ailure>dadaadadada
10:52<@orudge>!seen Ev
10:52<_42_>orudge, Ev (~chatzilla@213.141.137.47) was last seen quitting #openttd 4 hours ago (27.06. 11:51) stating "Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007031001]" after spending 1 hour 1 minute there.
10:52<+glx>@seen Ev
10:52<@DorpsGek>glx: Ev was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 54 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Ev> you can not wrap some into struct if they of different kind, it may mix of any kind )
10:54<@peter1138>heh
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11:00<dihedral>it's 1800 CET YAY
11:00[~]dihedral is on his way home now
11:00<XeryusTC>CEST
11:00[~]dihedral smiles joyfully
11:01<dihedral>XeryusTC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_European_Time
11:01<+glx>dihedral: we currently are in CEST :)
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11:01<dihedral>lol
11:01[~]dihedral gives in
11:02<+glx>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEST
11:02<dihedral>glx: whats you point :-D
11:02[~]dihedral off
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11:10<DeGhosty>there is a problem
11:10<DeGhosty>http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6833/openttdrc8.jpg
11:11<DeGhosty>open ttd was eating 1.6 gb
11:11<DeGhosty>of ram
11:12<XeryusTC><dihedral> glx: whats you point :-D <- there's an hour difference between the two
11:14<+glx>DeGhosty: your screenshot doesn't say what is eating the ram
11:15<DeGhosty>ok wait watch lol
11:16<Rubidium>DeGhosty: what version?
11:16<DeGhosty>10343
11:18<Rubidium>can you post a savegame so we might be able to reproduce that?
11:18<DeGhosty>heh
11:18<DeGhosty>just go to open ttd right now lol
11:18<DeGhosty>coop
11:19<DeGhosty>crap my dns server died somewhere
11:19<DeGhosty>d link make the crappiest router
11:21<DeGhosty>http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=open1hh9.jpg
11:22<DeGhosty>http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=open2tp3.jpg
11:22<DeGhosty>there
11:22<DeGhosty>seee
11:22<DeGhosty>1.9 gig lol
11:22<ln->what is?
11:23<DeGhosty>i think the draw routin didn't do garbage collect
11:23<DeGhosty>cuz someone else said when you zoom out alot and scroll around a bit you loose ram
11:25<@peter1138>nice
11:25<+glx>page file is not ram
11:26<DeGhosty>same thing
11:26<@peter1138>well, no, it's not.
11:29<DeGhosty>o
11:31<Rubidium>DeGhosty: did you select a blitter yourself?
11:32<DeGhosty>blitter?
11:32<DeGhosty>no what
11:33<Rubidium>if you don't know that, you didn't ;)
11:33<DeGhosty>i guessed as much
11:33<DeGhosty>:)
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11:41|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^Kendo
11:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10355 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix (r10092): memory leak when encoding (reading) sprites.
11:42<Rubidium>DeGhosty: now it should leak much less
11:44<Sacro>:o
11:45<Sacro>nearly at 10100
11:45<Sacro>errr...
11:45[~]Sacro hides
11:45<@peter1138>way past :P
11:45[~]peter1138 > home
11:46<Sacro>i'm sure you can guess what i did
11:46<Sacro>mv peter1138 ~
11:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10356 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix (r10143): another memory leak eliminated.
12:02<@peter1138>"Does it's possible chance to return CTRL+D function to windows-version (as it's has been only windows-feature AFAIK)?"
12:02<@peter1138>great english :p
12:02|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10357 /trunk/src/npf.cpp: -Fix: and when we're at it... yet another memory leak, but only when you start a new game; can't find any other memory leaks we can fix.
12:05|-|Nickman^Away changed nick to Nickman
12:08<Ailure>Big rigs is probably the only game where trucks can reach light speed by reversing
12:08<Ailure>:D
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12:14<Sacro>peter1138: english is a damned stupid language
12:14<DeGhosty>better then most
12:14<Sacro>is, from the verb to do
12:14<Sacro>wtf :\
12:14<Rubidium>DeGhosty: Dutch?
12:15<mikk36>Rubidium
12:15<mikk36>would it be possible to get a custom build of openttd without that cargopacket checker ?
12:15<mikk36>of latest trunk
12:16<Rubidium>just uncomment a line in openttd.cpp
12:16<mikk36>well, i don't have anything to build it with
12:16<Rubidium>on the other hand
12:16<Rubidium>how long is it in trunk?
12:16<mikk36>would need it for win32
12:16<mikk36>and would be happy if i'd get it in an hour :)
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12:17<mikk36>trunk has too good features to fall back to 0.5.2 :)
12:17<Wac_jsC>Hi, I would like to know, if it is possible to have sort of bots in network games? - Something with AI, or ??
12:17<mikk36>would, if u'd write a good AI, Wac_jsC
12:17<mikk36>right now there is now good AI
12:18[~]Rubidium doesn't like making custom builds
12:18<Wac_jsC>so currently it isn't possible ?
12:18<Rubidium>but I've got a better idea
12:18<mikk36>exactly
12:18<Wac_jsC>why is it, that they don't make bots for network games, when they have in local games ?
12:18<mikk36>because the original AI cheats
12:18<mikk36>and that can't happen in network game
12:19<mikk36>would mismatch the clients
12:19<Wac_jsC>the bots in local games are cheating ?
12:19<mikk36>yes
12:19<mikk36>a lot
12:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10358 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp cargopacket.h openttd.cpp): -Codechange: remove the cargopacket leakchecker as it never asserted in almost a week of stresstesting, so I'm pretty sure all cornercases are tested by now.
12:19<Wac_jsC>oh ? - how ?
12:19<mikk36>money etc
12:19<Rubidium>free terraforming is one
12:19<Wac_jsC>k
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12:19<Wac_jsC>but anyway, is it possible to enable in network games at all ? - and how ?
12:19<mikk36>thanks, Rubidium :)
12:19<mikk36>no it's not
12:20<mikk36>because it would mismatch the connected clients
12:20<mikk36>and the AI is dumb as hell anyway
12:20<Wac_jsC>yeah, but it could just be an option for the server host
12:20<mikk36>nope
12:20<mikk36>network game goes around in a way that everything is calculated on every client
12:21<Rubidium>the AI has too many assumptions on the game core
12:21<Wac_jsC>k, thank you for answering..
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12:21<Rubidium>for example it assumes that all commands are executed when the "DoCommand" returns. Something that is not true for network games
12:22<mikk36>by what time could i expect the build to be ready, Rubidium ?
12:22<Rubidium>what build?
12:22<mikk36>ie
12:23<mikk36>could you build a win32 release for me ?
12:23<Rubidium>just wait 45 minutes? ;)
12:23<mikk36>and it'll be built automatically ?
12:23<mikk36>har-har :P
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12:24<mikk36>CEST -> central europe standard time ?
12:24<Rubidium>summer
12:24<mikk36>ok
12:24<mikk36>+1 GMT + DST then :)
12:24<Rubidium>depends on what country the DST is of
12:24<Rubidium>if it's the US, then not always
12:25<mikk36>well, because you said CEST (summer time), then DST is applied :)
12:25<Rubidium>yes, but the DST in the US is different
12:26<Rubidium>well, starts/stops at different times
12:26<mikk36>well
12:26<mikk36>that is up to the calculator to know the time difference
12:26<mikk36>doesn't change the local time
12:28<mikk36>one more question, does the nightly still have that 65535 cargopackets limit ?
12:28<Rubidium>well, it's gone in trunk for a few days, so it's gone from the nightlies too
12:28<mikk36>nice :)
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12:56<@peter1138>heh
12:57<Prof_Frink>hoh?
12:58<Sacro>hah
12:58<mikk36>2 more minutes :
12:58<mikk36>)
12:58<mikk36>:)
12:59<+glx>hmm you forgot the 28 minutes for compilation :)
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12:59<mikk36>uhm
13:00<mikk36>created at Tue Jun 26 20:00:28 CEST 2007. <--this is the start time ?
13:00<Sacro>yip
13:00<mikk36>damnit :P
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13:01<jojo1000>wow so many people online :D
13:01<jojo1000>anyone around ?
13:01<jojo1000>ding ding !
13:01<jojo1000>hola ?
13:01<jojo1000>all asleep ?
13:01<@Belugas>nope
13:01<@Belugas>working hard
13:01<mikk36>yay
13:01<jojo1000>heeeeeey :D
13:01<mikk36>win32 is done :D
13:02[~]Sacro fires up versionpkg
13:02<jojo1000>if i wish to ask for help, is this the place to ask ?
13:02<mikk36>so, i only had to wait 2 minutes out of 28 :)
13:02<Sacro>jojo1000: depends on what you need help with
13:03<@Belugas>jojo1000: yes, no, maybe... it is depending of what you seek
13:03<Sacro>sometimes it's best just to go to a doctor
13:03<jojo1000>hmm
13:03<jojo1000>ok i wish to play multiplayer OTTD
13:03<jojo1000>but all the servers show a version mismatch
13:03<jojo1000>i currently have r8928
13:03<Sacro>hmmm
13:03<Thomas[NL]>use a stable version
13:03<Sacro>i doubt anyones running a server with that revision
13:04<jojo1000>yes.. they aren't
13:04<jojo1000>thomas .. stable version ? where do i get it ?
13:04<@peter1138>yars, r8928 is kind of old
13:04<Thomas[NL]>http://www.openttd.org/downloads.php
13:04<jojo1000>yes.. but that's the only minin that was there :(
13:04<Thomas[NL]>why do you use r8928 ?
13:04<Thomas[NL]>ah
13:04<jojo1000>i just learnt that they've been discontinued
13:05<jojo1000>ok im at the downloads page
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13:05<Sacro>why does nobody run a nightly server anymore?
13:05<Smoovious>Chris82 makes a different IN... stick around and ask him next time he pops up
13:06<Smoovious>I see Nightly servers occasionally... one is usually passworded tho
13:06<Thomas[NL]>here is a forum-topic: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32698&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
13:06<jojo1000>would 0.52 run just like that nightlies ?
13:06<@Belugas>Sacro : they got tired of the new features of trunk ;)
13:06<Sacro>i've got a graphic glitch here
13:06<jojo1000>i mean... with newgrfs.. etc etc ?
13:06<Sacro>jojo1000: 0.5.2?
13:06<Sacro>not just like no
13:06<jojo1000>yes 0.5.2
13:07<jojo1000>i mean would i be able to use the newgrf settings ?
13:07<Thomas[NL]>I think is can handle all the grf's of r8928
13:07<Thomas[NL]>is=it
13:07<jojo1000>oh awesome :)
13:07<Sacro>can someone look at the industries sort by production, it doesn't work right
13:07<Sacro>Thomas[NL]: no it can't
13:07<Sacro>oh, yes it can
13:07<Thomas[NL]>It didn't have newhouses yet did it?
13:08<Sacro>i think all of mart3p's patches got added
13:08<jojo1000>are you guys talking at my noob level ?
13:08<jojo1000>i mean something that i should listen to ?
13:09<jojo1000>ok im downloading 0.5.2 :D
13:09<Maedhros>0.5.2 doesn't have newhouses, but then neither did the mini-in
13:09<Sacro>we need something like autorail, for road
13:09<jojo1000>first of all thank you soooo much :D
13:09<jojo1000>i have another question
13:10<Thomas[NL]>Sacro, what is broken in sort by production ?
13:10<jojo1000>is there any thread or webpage where i can understand which grfs work? and in which order i should install them?
13:10<jojo1000>some grfs work just fine and the others don't work at all.. :(
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13:10<@Belugas>Sacro, what about industry sorting?
13:11<Sacro>Belugas: it doesn't seem to sort right anymore
13:11<Thomas[NL]>jojo1000, here are some, http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/GRF_List , but if they work and in what order is mostly try & error
13:11<@Belugas>elaborate, please
13:11<Sacro>Belugas: the highest producing industries don't always appear at the top
13:11<Sacro>or maybe i just want a sort by type and production
13:12<Thomas[NL]>are you talking about farms being on top of the list?
13:12<Sacro>yes
13:13<Thomas[NL]>it adds the grain and livestock together, this has always been IIRC
13:13<Thomas[NL]>(not that I like it)
13:13<jojo1000>i just installed 0.5.2 it shows an error in the beginning .. something to do with show_town_names show_station_names for display.opt ?
13:13<jojo1000>has someone faced the same ?
13:14<Thomas[NL]>did you use your old openttd.cfg?
13:14<jojo1000>i guess i did
13:14<@Belugas>Sacro, maybe Thomas[NL] is right. I don't know yet. Will take a look at it toningh
13:14<@Belugas>my tonigh, of course
13:14<jojo1000>ny workaround thomas ?
13:15<Thomas[NL]>rename it, start openttd close it and it has generated a new one, no you can easily cop grf settings etc
13:15<Sacro>Belugas: i've just got back onto BST :D
13:15<jojo1000>awesome.. lemme try it
13:15<Sacro>though i doubt it will take me long to float back to PST
13:15<@Belugas>i'm on EST, Sacro ;)
13:15<Sacro>Belugas: well i switch to around -12
13:15<Sacro>or +12
13:15<@Belugas>:)
13:15<@Belugas>-12
13:15<@peter1138>wibble
13:15<@Belugas>or somehting alike
13:16<jojo1000>yup thomas it worked ! :D
13:16<jojo1000>yay !!! salute !
13:16<@Belugas>-6 or -5, actually... don't know exactly
13:17<jojo1000>thomas should i check the WIKI for grfs or would you recommend grfcrawler ?
13:17<Sacro>well... i was going to bed about 7am, getting up about 5pm
13:17<Sacro>BST
13:18<Thomas[NL]>jojo1000, first look for grf's on the wiki they are guaranteed to work,(some only on nightlies) after that you van check crawler
13:18<jojo1000>thank you thomas :)
13:19<jojo1000>also thomas : (sorry to plaster so many questions) ... what part of my OLD .cfg file should i copy to the new one ?
13:19<jojo1000>'cuz my old games are now obviously not loading :P
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13:20<jojo1000>another thing thomas.. is the 0.5.2 already patched ? or should i need to apply a new one ?
13:20<@peter1138>mmm, pseudo-meat
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13:22<jojo1000>err... hello ?
13:22<@peter1138>patched? what?
13:22<Thomas[NL]>jojo1000, what do you mean by patched? your (miniIN) savegames will probably not load
13:22<jojo1000>oh i see...
13:23<jojo1000>so i need to play them all over again :) no issues
13:23<jojo1000>is there any part of the NEW .cfg file that i should replace with the OLD ?
13:23<Thomas[NL]>(correct me if I'm wrong) your .cfg has nothing to do with save-games loading or not
13:23<@peter1138>you can use the old config file
13:23<@peter1138>any bits it doesn't understand it will ignore
13:24<Thomas[NL]>maybe your newgrf-section if you used grf's.
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13:24<Thomas[NL]>the old .cfg gave an error
13:25<jojo1000>i used the old cfg file.. it shows up an error of display_opt = SHOW_TOWN_NAMES|SHOW_STATION_NAMES|SHOW_SIGNS|FULL_ANIMATION|FULL_DETAIL|DO_WAYPOINTS
13:25<jojo1000>display.opt
13:25<jojo1000>that's why i was asking if any changes are needed
13:25<Rubidium>it'll just show that warning the first time
13:26<jojo1000>oh ok .. nothing i need to worry about .. is it ?
13:26<Rubidium>no
13:26<Rubidium>but your MiniIN savegames are not going to load in 0.5.2
13:26|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
13:27<jojo1000>oh ok
13:27<jojo1000>yes.. all i wanted to know was just that if the GRFs that i used to use in my minins would work or not :)
13:27<jojo1000>but thomas kindly helped me
13:28<Thomas[NL]>np :)
13:28<Rubidium>they should all work
13:30<jojo1000>rubidium, would you be able to tell me any webpage or thread where some user has kindly mentioned what GRFs he has used SUCCESFFULLY?
13:30<jojo1000>there are so many grfs (With trams and new industries) .. i get really confused
13:30<Biff>is the background when you start openttd a ordinary savegame?
13:31<@peter1138>yes
13:31<Biff>hmm
13:31<Biff>where is it?
13:31<Thomas[NL]>allmost all work except (for the stable) trams, industries, cargo, articulated vehicles, newhouses ...
13:31<@peter1138>opntitle.dat
13:31<Thomas[NL]>in data/
13:31<jojo1000>thanks thomas ! huggggggggg !!!
13:32<@peter1138>articulated road vehicles. articulated trains work fine
13:33<jojo1000>also ... i only have problems with NEW road vehicles grf... anything that is STABLE? like the UKHOVS bus set or the planeset?
13:33<Thomas[NL]>hmm, can you give any example of an articulated road vehicle ?
13:33<jojo1000>im looking for juggernaut trucks etc. that i've seen in some screenshots.. but i could never get them
13:33<@peter1138>lv4w
13:33<Biff>amazing
13:34<Thomas[NL]>jojo1000, http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/newgrf.html#lv
13:34<jojo1000>these work thomas? since i think i've been to this page before
13:35<Thomas[NL]>they work, but there are some glitches etc. (not because of openttd failing)
13:35|-|Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
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13:35<@Belugas>jojo1000, you could check this one too : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9376
13:36[~]Bjarni slaps Sacro
13:36[~]Sacro slaps Bjarni
13:36<@Bjarni>good
13:36<@Bjarni>I got your attention
13:36<@Bjarni>what did you want to tell me?
13:37<@Bjarni>you want me to translate some other bullshit or something?
13:37<jojo1000>thank you belugas.. you guys are too cool ! :)
13:37<Sacro>Bjarni: no, not really
13:37[~]Bjarni turns the heat up
13:37<@Bjarni>I was just told that it appears to be cold in here xD
13:38<@Bjarni>I bet Sacro wants to get some porn translated, but he decided not to ask about it anyway :P
13:38<Sacro>Bjarni: i don't mind what language my porn is in
13:38<Sacro>you just learn how to say "YES" in any language
13:39<@Bjarni>err
13:39<@Bjarni>I don't think that will work for erotic stories
13:39<@Bjarni>I mean text only stories
13:40<jojo1000>sorry bleugas.. that thread took me to some other page
13:40<@Bjarni><Sacro> you just learn how to say "YES" in any language <-- so tell us how to say "YES" in a whole lot of different languages :P
13:40<Sacro>no :p
13:41[~]Bjarni has the feeling that Sacro is no good at languages
13:41<@Bjarni>that sucks when you are on the internet
13:41<@Bjarni>not to mention while travelling
13:41<@Bjarni>or talking to tourists
13:41<Sacro>well this internet is in english
13:42<@Bjarni>"this internet".... you mean that there is a separate internet for every language or ? :P
13:42<Sacro>why would i care...
13:42<@Bjarni>also it's English, not english
13:42<Sacro>i'm happy with this one
13:42<Sacro>its in english, and it has porn
13:42<@Bjarni>*it's
13:42<eekee>lol a lot of stuff seems to be seperated
13:42<@Bjarni>*English
13:43<Sacro>its
13:43<Sacro>no belonging
13:43<@Bjarni>isn't the "'" the replacement of the mission " i"?
13:44<Thomas[NL]>what I thought ...
13:44<Sacro>Bjarni: its is the exception that proves the rule
13:44<Sacro>and its not always the omission of i
13:45<@Bjarni>it's the omission of one or more letters, not specifically i
13:45<Sacro>no
13:45<Sacro>i'm the wrong way around ><
13:45<Sacro>its shows possesion
13:45<Sacro>it's shows contraction
13:47<@Bjarni>told you :P
13:48<@Bjarni>I would tell you something about a foreigner having to tell you how to use the grammar of your own language, but considering you being in Hull, I guess it's no big surprise after all
13:48[~]Bjarni hides
13:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10359 /trunk/Makefile.in: -Codechange [FS#935]: add some explanations what the different make "commands" do.
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13:52<Biff>hmm
13:52<Biff>nm
13:53<Phazorx>what was last revision before cargo packets?
13:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10360 /trunk/Makefile.in: -Fix (r10359): make should always do "make all" by default
13:53<Rubidium>10265 I guess
13:54<mikk36>uhm
13:54<mikk36>a problem :D
13:54<Thomas[NL]>what are these cargo packets?
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13:55<Phazorx>Ailure: i'm going back to 265 on yours
13:55<Phazorx>oops wrong chan
13:55<Rubidium>mikk36: have you played at something between r10266 and r10300 and did that desync, only after r10300 ?
13:55<mikk36>add newgrf window has a locked position
13:55<mikk36>i've had no desyncs lately
13:55<Phazorx>coopers boxes desync a lot
13:56<Phazorx>343 only with yapf, 258 all the time
13:56<Rubidium>Phazorx: but since when?
13:56<Ailure>going back to 265?
13:56<Ailure><<
13:56<Phazorx>Rubidium: since 343 most likely
13:56<Ailure>and was that for #rohmacking over at espernet?
13:56<Ailure>xD
13:56<Phazorx>Ailure: wrong channel and autocompletion, my bad sorry
13:56<Rubidium>Phazorx: the desyncs with YAPF I meant
13:56<Ailure>ah
13:56<Ailure>haha
13:56<Phazorx>Rubidium: we went from 265 to 343
13:56<Ailure>hardly the first time that happens to me <<
13:57<Phazorx>that produed desyncs with yapfed trains
13:57<Rubidium>Phazorx: please try something between 266 and 300
13:57<Phazorx>any particular ones?
13:57<Rubidium>r10300
13:58<Rubidium>because in r10301-further a lot of YAPF changes were done and the "ditch YAPF cache on each tick for network games" was removed
13:59<Chris82>hello :)
13:59<Chris82>is our found a town champion here?
13:59<Chris82>(namely Gekko)
13:59<Chris82>3>..\src\town_cmd.cpp(1549) : error C2440: 'return' : cannot convert from 'CommandCost' to 'int32'
13:59<Chris82>3> No user-defined-conversion operator available that can perform this conversion, or the operator cannot be called
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10361 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-27 20:59:10
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 3 fixed by tucalipe (3)
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 5 fixed by thetitan (5)
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3)
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 6 fixed, 4 changed by vermon (10)
13:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
14:00<Chris82>I get this error in 4 instances and once again don't know what to do with it :D
14:00<Rubidium>Chris82: lot of code regarding to the return value of commands has changed
14:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10362 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: make tunnel costs less exponential for (very) long tunnels.
14:00<+glx>Chris82: have fun with int32->CommandCost conversions :)
14:02<Thomas[NL]>to come back on the sort on production issue, can't the average of grain&livestock be used for a farm's production?
14:03<Phazorx>Rubidium: autopilot fails with r10300
14:03<@peter1138>'fails' eh?
14:04<Sacro>making a cost less exponential
14:04<Sacro>that sounds nifty
14:04<@Bjarni>now Sacro is showing signs of being cheap as well :P
14:04<Phazorx>http://pastie.caboo.se/private/kd4aak6wrya0oc6kyt
14:04<Chris82>hmmm
14:04<Chris82>I don't know what should be wrong with this line though if (DistanceFromEdge(tile) < 12)
14:05<Chris82>in trunk I can find code like DistanceFromEdge(tile) < 20 so where's the difference?
14:05<Rubidium>neither do I, but that's because I don't have any context
14:06<Chris82>it's from the found a town patch
14:06<Chris82>and according to what Gekko told me earlier today it should compile fine with current trunk
14:07<Phazorx>Rubidium: 358 produced unsable saves
14:07<Phazorx>rolled back version works tho
14:08<Rubidium>unstable save?
14:09<Phazorx>unusable
14:09<Phazorx>can not be loaded :/
14:09<Rubidium>in which version can't they be loaded?
14:09<Phazorx>358 > 300
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14:10<Rubidium>well, that's logical because there is a savegame bump in between there
14:10<@peter1138>lol
14:10<Phazorx>well it was nice for you to tell me that now
14:10<Rubidium>your now playing with the version that can't have more than 65535 cargo packets
14:11<Phazorx>well it was 265 > 358 > 300
14:11<Phazorx>and 358 did let players do anything
14:11<Phazorx>did not
14:11<Phazorx>compiling client now to see if 300 works with yapf
14:11<@peter1138>you missed out 343
14:12<Phazorx>peter1138: that is different server
14:12<Phazorx>it never had 343
14:12<@peter1138>ah, ok
14:12<Phazorx>that box is 265>343 and desyncs only with yapf
14:12<Phazorx>358 desync if trains are moving anyhow
14:14<Rubidium>do you have the savegame of the 358 desync fest?
14:14<@peter1138>i've got one
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14:15<Phazorx>that's a bad save tho
14:15<Phazorx>too many trains
14:15<Rubidium>why is the save bad?
14:16<Rubidium>why is too many trains bad?
14:16<Rubidium>except that it's horribly slow on my computer
14:18<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/o/frostbyte.sav
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14:24<stillunknown>My train can float on water :-)
14:25<hylje>lol, wut?
14:25<@peter1138>Bjarni: flyspray?
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14:32<Phazorx>can desync happen with only one player?
14:32<Noldo>yes
14:32<Rubidium>if that's the case that person is usually using a completely different architecture (CPU)
14:33<Phazorx>Rubidium: that is not the case and i'm trying to figure out if it is dure to 300 working or lack of reason to desync
14:34<Phazorx>peter1138 / Rubidium can at elast one of you get 300 and join the server?
14:35<Rubidium>I'm running it locally now
14:36<@peter1138>me too
14:37<@peter1138>run from march to october without a desync, with yapf disabled
14:38<stillunknown>Is the bridgeramp part or the wormhole?
14:39<@peter1138>no
14:39<@peter1138>it's really there
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14:43<@peter1138>Bjarni, ping? :p
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14:49<dihedral>hi
14:51<dihedral>Rubidium: today i had no problem with building pre signals!!
14:52<dihedral>appart from when i had a dsync and rejoined
14:52<dihedral>but quitting and fireing ottd up again solved it!!
14:52<dihedral>only thing different: thunderbird, chatzilla and skype were not running
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15:08<@Bjarni>peter1138: pong
15:11<NukeBuster>!logs
15:11<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
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15:21<mikk36>why can't we sort by tractive effort ?
15:21<mikk36>:)
15:26<dihedral>if a train as no orders and as to go through a station
15:26<dihedral>it seems to ignore the pre signal setup
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15:28<dihedral>see: http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/pre-signal-no-orders.png
15:28<Rubidium>you use the wrong signals
15:29<XeryusTC>twoway
15:29<Rubidium>for "choice" you need to have the two way ones
15:29<Chris82>dihedral: Can you send me the source of the page you've shown me earlier today to chris@sandra-bullock.co.uk so I can play with the design?
15:32<@peter1138>what strange colour track is that?
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15:33<stillunknown>Is it dangerous to call VehicleEnterTile on an empty tile?
15:33<Chris82>Rubidium: I figured the error I had before. CommandCost CmdFundTown is correct and int32 CmdFundTown was obviously old OTTD code
15:33|-|Osai^Kendo changed nick to Osai
15:33<Chris82>so thanks for leading my thoughts in the right direction
15:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10363 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Fix [FS#911]: invalidating autoreplace windows didn't take account of vehicle group (Matthias Wolf)
15:42<dihedral>Rubidium: what are the two way signals then?
15:44<@peter1138>only 7 bugs assigned to bjarni now
15:45<dihedral>Chris82: email just headed out
15:46<dihedral>if you need anything, jot me a note :-)
15:47<dihedral>Rubidium: forget my last question :-)
15:47<dihedral>but why would i then need 2way signals?
15:48<Rubidium>because 2 way signals are handled as "choice" and one way signals not, they only "pass" the signal state to the other signals
15:48<dihedral>ah
15:48<dihedral>ok
15:48<dihedral>thank you
15:49<Chris82>thanks for the e-mail :)
15:49<Chris82>is it correct that AI doesn't build ships?
15:50<@Bjarni> <peter1138> only 7 bugs assigned to bjarni now <-- good... I'm still looking at the autoreplace thingie, but it may take a while :/
15:51|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
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15:52<@peter1138>Bjarni: if you'd've looked at fs#911 you'd've seen the patch was supplied :p
15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10364 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#706]: checking for duplicate custom names was inconsistent, and tested all 'namespaces'. now only check names of the same type.
15:53<@Bjarni>actually I was more thinking like autoreplace in general. I'm trying to make it more robust so it's less likely to fail even with odd newGRF restrictions
15:54<Chris82>btw a little suggestion for auto replace to make it more GRF friendly
15:54<@peter1138>Chris82: support newgrf specified autoreplace? Heh
15:54<Chris82>in DB Set XL for example you have waggons of very different capacity e.g. 15 - 40 tons over time
15:54<@Bjarni>also it should be a bit easier to modify it to do stuff like returning better error messages
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15:54<@peter1138>wagon replacement is supported
15:54<Chris82>the waggon auto replace should replace the 15 t waggons with fewer 40 t waggons so trains don't get ultra large capacity
15:55<@peter1138>Bjarni: that's not really relevant to, say, bug 911
15:55<dihedral>Rubidium: then why does it work here: http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/pre-signal-no-orders2.png
15:55<Chris82>yeah I know waggon replacement works, but replacing 10 15t waggons with 10 40t waggons is not really what I want
15:55<Phazorx>peter1138: btw UKRS seems to be funky when some cars are autoreplaced to utility cars
15:55<Phazorx>they loose half capacity if it is done via autoreplace
15:55<@peter1138>dihedral: presignals do not work with no orders
15:55<Rubidium>dihedral: because that it apparantly the shortest path or so
15:55<Phazorx>but if you try to refit - they gain it back at no cost
15:56<dihedral>all trains in that pic have no orders...
15:56<@peter1138>utility cars? hmm
15:56<dihedral>and behave completely differently to the trains on the other station of that track
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15:57<Phazorx>peter1138: for example food, in that save at sme point of time we replaced TEA with utility cars (which weight much less but offer same capacity) and we end up having half of what was expected
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15:57<dihedral>what is the reason for pre signals not working if a train has no orders?
15:57<Phazorx>then manualy park all of these trains and hit refit button
15:58<@peter1138>dihedral: presignals themselves work, but trains do not pick the paths as you expect
15:58<@peter1138>because... they're not pathfinding
15:58<dihedral>hehe
15:58<dihedral>right
15:58<dihedral>thanks peter1138
16:00<Chris82>is it possible that trains are taking a much higher load on the CPU than other vehicles?
16:00<@peter1138>usually because there's a lot more of them
16:00<Chris82>I have a test game with 329 trains, 637 trucks and 167 planes and cpu is only around 12 percent
16:00<Chris82>with 800 trains I have twice as much CPU although the amount of vehicles is lower
16:01<@peter1138>how many rail vehicles though?
16:01<@peter1138>i.e. trains + wagons
16:01<hylje>n+1
16:01<Rubidium>trains are *more* vehicles than trucks, so you need to do a lot more crash checking etc.
16:01<hylje>two wagons can never collide though?
16:02<@peter1138>Phazorx: i don't see a problem with tea/utility + food
16:03<@peter1138>Phazorx: note that 35 bags of mail != 35 tonnes of food
16:03<Chris82>ahh that's true :)
16:03<Phazorx>peter1138: check that save you got
16:03<Phazorx>utility there has 35 food
16:04<Rubidium>Chris82: also means that it has to draw more vehicles, update hashes etc.
16:05<Chris82>does it even draw them when I have OTTD minimized?
16:06<@peter1138>ok, i see it
16:06<@peter1138>Chris82: yes :)
16:06<Rubidium>don't know
16:06<@peter1138>as least, i think it does, heh
16:07<@peter1138>Phazorx: utility van has different food capacity depending on which engine it's refitted with
16:07<hylje>its funny how food is generally equivalent to goods but transported by the tonne
16:07<Phazorx>oh really ?
16:07<Phazorx>how's that making sense
16:07<hylje>rather than the crate counter of goods
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16:10<@peter1138>Phazorx: sounds like a ukrs bug
16:10<@peter1138>might be intentional
16:11<Phazorx>intentional bug ? pikka works for microsoft??
16:11<@peter1138>no, the different capacity might be intentional, but the side effects of moving stuff around might've been forgotten
16:11<@peter1138>i don't know
16:11<@peter1138>need to test it with ttdpatch, really
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16:32<UnderBuilder>a question: if we want to port ottd to the nintendo wii for example we should need a license to do it?
16:32<Rubidium>the port would be GPL
16:32<@Bjarni>an answer: porting GPL code doesn't need a special permission
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16:33<UnderBuilder>so... only commercial projects need a license right?
16:34<Chris82>good night :)
16:34<@Bjarni>license stuff can be somewhat complex once in a while, but if the software is GPL, then it's ok to port it
16:34<Rubidium>UnderBuilder: depends on the project
16:35<Rubidium>as long as you release the source code when you release it (the binaries)
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16:36<@Bjarni>yeah, you should apply to the GPL license, so releasing your source code is a must
16:38<Sacro>s/should/have\ to/
16:39<Rubidium>but a Wii CD with OTTD sounds interesting ;)
16:39<Prof_Frink>s/'have to'/'have to, or get permission from *everyone* who contributed code to openttd to use a different license'/
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16:39<Biff>releasing the source is a must if you want to distribute the nintendo wii versjon
16:40<Ailure>While the Wii is wonderful and all
16:40<Biff>version*
16:40<Ailure>D:
16:40<Ailure>is TTD really a good game for it?
16:40<Biff>but if you only use it yourself, you do not need to release the source
16:40<Ailure>I can understand if people want TTD on handhelds <<
16:40<dihedral>good night ladies
16:40<@Bjarni>Ailure: that's a good question
16:40[~]dihedral waves
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... "you'd've" <- i have never seen that before :)
16:41<Prof_Frink>Ailure: Sure. You can... throw trains at your opponents. Yeah.
16:41<@Bjarni>is the wii hardware fitting for OpenTTD?
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16:41<Ailure>oh of course it's good enough
16:41<Ailure>you can probably fit openTTD on a DS with some work
16:41<Ailure>but i'm not sure if it's really fitting for the I/O
16:41<Eddi|zuHause2>either "you'd have" or "you would've"
16:41<Prof_Frink>Although, using the wiimote as a mouse could work
16:42<Ailure>well someone probbaly will do it sooner or later :)
16:42<Ailure>with modchips or not
16:42<Ailure>heh
16:42<Rubidium>and you've got a few buttons + an on-screen-keyboard and you've got everything you need
16:42<Ailure>I think the Wii got a USB port
16:43<Prof_Frink>OSK isn't really needed apart from setting company and chairman names
16:43<Ailure>so you might be able to ues a keyboard/mouse
16:43<Ailure>but of course, then you could as well use a computer D:
16:43<SmatZ>isn't there some voice recognition software?
16:44<Ailure>haha oh god
16:44<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: multiple contractions :D
16:44<Ailure>imagine playing openTTD like that
16:44<SmatZ>:-D
16:44<Ailure>"transparency on, transparency off"
16:44<SmatZ>lol
16:44<Ailure>"horizontal rail, vertical rail"
16:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Prof_Frink: you'd occasionally want to set newgrf parameters, chat, and enter console commands
16:44<Prof_Frink>Ailure: Nah, just 'ecks'
16:44<Ailure>instead of pressing a hotkey, you say it out loud
16:44<SmatZ>I mean, just to spell your name :)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>peter1138: i have my doubts wether that is actually correct english :)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>whether(?)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i never get that one right...
16:45<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: it is
16:46<Ailure>heh
16:46<Ailure>I wonder how much work it would be to port openttd to DS
16:46<Ailure>there was a PSP port I recall
16:48<Ailure>less memory than PSP, but data can be read directly from the cart with a almost non-existant delay if any
16:48<Ailure>haha oi it would require quite some slimming
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause2>peter1138: excuse me, if i refrain from using it, though :p
16:51|-|raimar3 [~hawk@p5489C67C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:53<@peter1138>never mind that "'ve" is commonly miswritten as " of"
16:54<Sacro>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=601918#601918 ← is this allowed?
16:54<Sacro>cos it was gonna be my project, to tidy it up
16:55<@peter1138>lol
16:55<@peter1138>that's excellent
16:56<Sacro>mmm
16:56<SmatZ>the only problem was not conforming with ottd coding style?
16:56<Sacro>if it was unlicenced before, i can't fork it
16:56<Sacro>:(
16:56|-|TinoM [~Tino@i5387CBDA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
16:57<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... are patches to GPL programs automatically GPL'ed?
16:58<@peter1138>SmatZ: no, the code was crap, let alone the style
16:58<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: i would assume upon commiting
16:58<Sacro>peter1138: was it?
16:58<Sacro>ooh
16:58<Sacro>so if i *do* tidy it up
16:58<@peter1138>you can't!
16:58<Sacro>:(
16:58<@peter1138>heh
16:58<Sacro>i've seen it now
16:58<@peter1138>it no longer exists, heh
16:58<Sacro>peter1138: i have it on my desktop :p
16:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Sacro: actually, no, you have to agree to the GPL before you modify a GPL'ed source code
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16:59<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: an excellent point
16:59<Ailure>What's up with people taking it as a huge offence ot not get their patch included into trunk. D:
16:59<Sacro>but still...
16:59<Sacro>if he has said DON'T USE
16:59<Eddi|zuHause2>well, if by releasing it previously he allowed people to use it, he cannot "unrelease" it anymore
17:00<SmatZ>yes, it happens sometimes - when a project changes license, there may be a fork contiuing under old licence - even with different dev team
17:00<Sacro>will anyone second this?
17:00<Eddi|zuHause2>he can change the license for any new version, but he cannot do it for previous releases
17:00<Sacro>i have his last patch on my desktop, i grabbed it last night to look into
17:00<Ailure>like when I installed uhm
17:01<Ailure>freeBSD
17:01<Ailure>I thnk it was
17:01<Eddi|zuHause2>but if the code was as crap as people tell, you'd probably be better off starting from scratch anyway :)
17:01<Ailure>some of the bundled software was rather old
17:01<SmatZ>the rights are one thing, second thing is making original developer upsed by releasing his code...
17:01<Ailure>due to it being BSd licensed, and the newer version was licensed under GNU
17:01|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
17:01|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
17:02<Eddi|zuHause2>"making original developer upsed by releasing his code" <- then he should not have touched GPL'ed code
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17:02|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
17:02<Ailure>I seen open source projects that accepts every patch that springs up
17:02<Ailure>the code isn't fun to maintain :)
17:03<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: well, it would be based on his works
17:03<Sacro>but not exact
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>well, sure, but that's what the GPL is about
17:04<ln->00:58 < Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: actually, no, you have to agree to the GPL before you modify a GPL'ed source code <--- not really
17:04<Eddi|zuHause2>basing things on other people's work
17:04<Sacro>ln-: oh?
17:04<Sacro>i have no idea, i'm trying to learn
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: "
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2> 5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to modify or
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>distribute the Program or its derivative works.
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>"
17:06<Sacro>so any derivative works are automatically under the GPL?
17:06<ln->yes, but whether a patch as its own is derivative work, is a little questionable.
17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, that's the whole spirit of the GPL
17:07<@peter1138>who cares, the patch was shit :D
17:07<Ailure>I can see why too
17:08<Ailure>like the way he handled a bug <<
17:10<SmatZ>http://paste.openttd.org/132 <-- part of GPLv2
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17:11<Sacro>ln-: it was based off OpenTTD though
17:11<Sacro>unless he just wrote the diff on his own
17:11<Sacro>which is impressive
17:11<ln->but what about the LAME mp3 encoder?
17:12<ln->which is LGPL instead of GPL, but still.
17:12<Ailure>haha
17:12<SmatZ>LGPL - you may link to :GPL'ed libraries
17:12<SmatZ>*LGPL'ed
17:12<Ailure>that would be a hack of a way to get around the license
17:12<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: i'm pretty sure the LGPL makes a difference between using it and modifying it
17:13<Ailure>by writing the patches manually
17:13<@peter1138>Ailure: like ttdpatch? :)
17:13<Sacro>peter1138: don't they refer to the original code?
17:14<Ailure>heh
17:14<Ailure>oddly, most people who I know who hacks machine code
17:15<Ailure>prefer openTTD :p
17:15<SmatZ>anyway, reverse engineering - the way ottd's source code was originally gained - is illegal in some countries... we should be glad microprose nor chris sawyer are not demanding their rights...
17:15<Ailure>well, most is about just a few from romhacking community, but still
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>the questionable part about such a "patch" is the use of addresses from the original program
17:15<Ailure>Well reverse engineering laws in Sweden isn't very harsh as far I know
17:15<Ailure><<
17:15<Ailure>and the founder is Swedish as far I know
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: for all we know, it was not illegal according to swedish law
17:16<SmatZ>ok :)
17:16<@peter1138>Sacro: yes
17:17<ln->if I make a (significantly large) patch against a GPL project, and publish it, and later tell no one may use it... it might be against GPL, but does a GPL violation invalidate my copyright to the patch, and the right to decide how it is used and distributed?
17:17<Ailure>though people get around some grey areas as much they can
17:17<Ailure>by supplying hacks as patches
17:17<Ailure>usually through the IPS format
17:17<ln->especially if the patch never was explicitly stated as being under GPL.
17:17<Ailure>...like ttdpatch does.
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17:17<Ailure>though not with IPS, I don't know what they use
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17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: the question is if they are implicitly eleased under the GPL
17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>+r
17:18<Eddi|zuHause2>and i think they are
17:19<SmatZ>I think the way gcc3 was born - there were some modifications to the gcc2 done by (I can't remember atm), and the source code had to be released later
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17:19<Eddi|zuHause2>because of that previously quoted paragraph 5
17:20<SmatZ>yes, because of the licence :)
17:21<ln->egcs was the advanced version of gcc.
17:21<ln->a fork.
17:24<@peter1138>ahh, back in the day
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17:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10365 /trunk/src/ (network/network_data.h spriteloader/png.cpp): -Fix: compiling without png and networking support under MSVC.
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10366 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_costrail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp):
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange [YAPF]: added DEBUG_YAPF_CACHE macro that (when set to 1) allows to track YAPF "cache errors". They are probably responsible for current MP desyncs. (thanks Rubidium for this great idea!).
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: I will deal with those errors/desyncs tomorrow.
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17:37<Sacro>so...
17:37<Sacro>shall i fix it?
17:37<@peter1138>hmm?
17:37<Sacro>i've had my cheeseburger
17:38<Sacro>i'm doing an svn up
17:38<Sacro>shall i dig around with that patch?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i already said you'd probably be better off starting from scratch
17:50<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: yes... but i will refer to his for ideas
17:50<Sacro>i'm not too clever D:
17:51<SmatZ>:D
17:55<ln->does any of use the best text editor on earth, FTE?
17:56<NukeBuster>Bluefish :)
17:56<Eddi|zuHause2>what? the best text editor i have seen was "copy con: file"
17:57<Sacro>meh
17:57<Sacro>ed
17:57<Sacro>or maybe...
17:57<Sacro>winword
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>lmao :p
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i definitely used copy over word any time :p
17:57<SmatZ>somebody said me MSVC can import RTF/DOC documents and compile them...
17:57<SmatZ>*the source written inside them
17:58<SmatZ>**told
17:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i remember RTF being used for .hlp files
17:58<Sacro>hehe
18:00<Sacro>ye gad
18:00<Sacro>that code is scary
18:00<SmatZ>:D
18:00|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
18:02<Ailure>probably like some of my early programming expriments
18:02<Ailure>which was a spaghetti code mess
18:03|-|Jinx [~Jinx@d54C1CECE.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
18:04<Jinx>found a bug
18:04<Jinx>reproducable :)
18:04<Jinx>nothing too fancy but still...
18:04<+glx>details please
18:04<Jinx>opening a scenario with a faulty scn file crashes the game
18:04<Rubidium>starting with the version
18:04<Jinx>r10343
18:05<+glx>what do you mean with faulty scn?
18:05<Jinx>well... i tried using the "play scenario" bit while it was still downloading
18:06<Jinx>i get this:
18:06<Jinx>AppName: openttd.exe AppVer: 0.5.99.0 ModName: msvcrt.dll
18:06<Jinx>ModVer: 7.0.2600.2180 Offset: 0002554a
18:06<Jinx>the exact dump is available too :)
18:06<+glx>it won't help us
18:06<Jinx>didn't think it would. ms crappy dlls
18:07<Jinx>anyway... i would think it would fail gracefully but it just crashes
18:07<+glx>anyway you did something very wrong :)
18:07<Jinx>wll yes... opening the scenario while firefox was still downloading it :)
18:07<Rubidium>I guess we need to be a little more lenient with crashing ;)
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>wasn't there a "don't crash on incorrect savegame"?
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>+ commit recently
18:08<+glx>but in this case it's more than incorrect savegame
18:09<Jinx>in any case... hope it was somewhat helpfull :)
18:09<Jinx>cause i gotto go to bed
18:09<Jinx>big festival tomorrow
18:09<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: incorrect savegame meaning savegame of a version we do not support (i.e. it is loadable in some (patched) version)
18:10<Sacro>ooh
18:10<Sacro>GPLV3 tommorow
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>but if the savegame is incomplete, shouldn't zlib already barfß
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>?
18:10<+glx>yes with segfault :)
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>haha :p
18:12<Jinx>GPLV3?
18:12<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: maybe you can truncate the file in such a manner that zlib thinks it's okay
18:12<Jinx>is a scn the same as a save cept for the extension?
18:13<+glx>yes
18:13<Jinx>ok then :)
18:13<Jinx>i'm off to bed
18:13<Jinx>cyall :)
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18:14<Eddi|zuHause2>non-prefix-codes are a bitch to handle :(
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18:15<Eddi|zuHause2>the least you could do would be to start (or end) with the filesize
18:16<+glx>zlib compress on the fly, it can't know the filesize
18:17<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you do know the filesize at the end of the zlib call
18:17<Sacro>glx: well it should insert the final md5 at the beginning for verification
18:18<ln->i bet it didn't work that way in the original game.
18:18<+glx>original had lzo compression IIRC
18:19<Eddi|zuHause2>original had compression?
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>well... good night
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18:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10367 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix: do not crash horribly when the file you are trying to load is too short or decompressing it fails.
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18:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10368 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Fix: when renaming waypoints, ownership was only checked client-side, not in the command.
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19:48<NukeBuster>Whats with revision 10350 and 10351?
19:53<@Belugas>what about them?
19:53<@Belugas>is there something that bothers you?
19:54<+glx>I think he doesn't see them in the log :)
19:57<@Belugas>ho...
19:57<@Belugas>well...
19:58<@Belugas>#openttd.notice :)
20:21[~]Ailure should really read through the whole GPL one of thoose days
20:26<@Belugas>and kick athanasios's butt afterward
20:27<Ailure>ironic that I get into a discussion about GPL
20:27<Ailure>just before the launch of GPL3
20:29<Ailure>well heh
20:29<Ailure>partly becuse I might start open source projects of my own
20:29<Ailure>and I rather know the license fully before I apply it to my own software
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20:33<@Belugas>good for you :)
20:33<@Belugas>I wish you luck and success
20:33<Ailure>Thanks I need it.
20:34|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:34<@Belugas>naaaah... you just need a good brain
20:35<Ailure>Which I have. ;)
20:35<Ailure>well, bit hard with motivation after being burnt out from a stressy school semester
20:37|-|Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7510E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:40<@Belugas>**hint** -> market place -> stress == daily/weekly/monthly/yearly experience ;)
20:41<Ailure>:p
20:41<Ailure>Well, I learned two things
20:41<Ailure>Don't bite than you can chew
20:41<Ailure>Choose your groupmates wisely
20:41<Ailure>xD
20:42|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-131-37.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:42<@Belugas>heheh
20:42<@Belugas>experience indeed :)
20:46<Ailure>Well, at least I feel much more experienced with networking and communication :p
20:46<Ailure>Even if the workload was hardly even in that group. :/
20:48<Ailure>Oh well, at least i'm happy that the final result didn't have any nasty hacks due to time-constraints. :)
21:00<NukeBuster>sorry i didn't respond earlier...
21:00<NukeBuster>i was a bit messed up into the 45 degrees code..
21:00<NukeBuster>but the log entries from 10350 and 10351 are ------------------------------------------------------
21:01<Ailure>fantastic entries
21:02<NukeBuster>is that every 50th and 51th line?
21:02<NukeBuster>*51st
21:03<@Belugas>!openttd commit 10350
21:03<NukeBuster>?
21:03<_42_>Commit by glx :: r10350 /branches/noai/ (211 files in 14 dirs) (2007-06-26 23:40:58 UTC)
21:03<_42_>[NoAI] -Sync with trunk r10194:10349
21:04<NukeBuster>ok, now i see :P
21:04<NukeBuster>svn log reported ---------------------------
21:04<@Belugas>!openttd commit 10351
21:04<_42_>Commit by glx :: r10351 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt (2007-06-27 01:01:16 UTC)
21:04<_42_>[NoAI] -Fix r10350: forgot to update regression.txt (indeed GetCompanyName() and GetPresidentName() were half-broken before r10350)
21:05<@Belugas>not part of trunk :)
21:05<@Belugas>and me, not part of awaken world anymore
21:05<@Belugas>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:05<@Belugas>'night
21:05<NukeBuster>haha
21:05<NukeBuster>g'night
21:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10369 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industries.h):
21:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add the IndustryType parameter to the GetIndustryCallback function.
21:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Sometimes, the industry might not be able to provide its type, since it does not exists at all
21:16<Caemyr>yay!
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 28 00:00:10 2007