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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-29

---Logopened Fri Jun 29 00:00:50 2007
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02:26<Smoovious>do I need a newgrf to have trams in trunk, or are there some that are default?
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02:28<Rubidium>yes, no
02:28<hylje>thou need a newgrf
02:31[~]Smoovious nod.
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02:32<dihedral>morning ladies :-)
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03:18<Luukland>Heya, Is there a max. number of industries set in OTTD?
03:18<Luukland>or can i add as many i like in my scenario?
03:19<@peter1138>no. yes.
03:20<Luukland>also no max. number of towns? ^^
03:20<Rubidium>peter1138: lies... there is a maximum number of towns and industries
03:20<Luukland>Whahaha :P
03:20<Rubidium>for example towns can't be closer than 10 tiles or so from eachother
03:20<Rubidium>on a map of 2048x2048 this limits the number of towns to 4096 ;)
03:21<Rubidium>and for industries
03:22<Rubidium>if you've got the multiple industries per town not enabled it's something like 44000 (11 industries per town)
03:22<Rubidium>or 65535 because the variable that holds the index doesn't hold more
03:22<Rubidium>so yes, there is a maximum
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03:22<Luukland>well that should be enough to add a lot into my scenario
03:22<Rubidium>but I guess you won't reach that maximum
03:23<Luukland>maybe :)
03:23<Luukland>Working on 2056 x 2056 -> UK + Ireland + Calais :)
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03:24<Rubidium>odd map size ;)
03:24<Luukland>i know it is sick :)
03:25<Luukland>But you can build everything from your dreams in England :P
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03:25<Luukland>Gigantic Railwaynetworks, from Thurso to Calais (north-south)
03:26[~]Rubidium thinks Luukland didn't get it ;)
03:26<Phazorx>gigantic wont be realistic probably
03:26<Luukland>Phazorx maybe
03:26<Phazorx>Rubidium: only programmers know at least 16 powers of 2 by heart :)
03:26<Rubidium>ofcourse, as long as you flood large parts of it ;)
03:27<Luukland>Rubidium i guess 50% is flooded (not very usefull)
03:27<Rubidium>Phazorx: but everyone playing large maps should now it is 2048x2048
03:27<Smoovious>well, I suppose you could hit t he max industries, with multiple-per-town enabled, and the theorhetical maxiimum of 4096 towns...
03:28<Smoovious>laying track would be a problem after a whilie tho
03:28<Phazorx>Rubidium: does map size itself directly defines server load?
03:29<Phazorx>ot it is indureies, towns and result of player activity only?
03:29<Smoovious>yes, yes, yes, and yes
03:30<Phazorx>that was "or" question
03:31<Smoovious>oh... in that case...
03:31<Smoovious>ERR: Invalid Input
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03:32[~]Phazorx thinks Smoovious is being femaleish
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03:33<@peter1138>Phazorx: "is it hot or cold?" "yes"
03:33<@peter1138>perfectly valid answer
03:33[~]Smoovious thinks Phazorx incorrectly assumes that is actually insulting to Smoovious
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03:34<Phazorx>in human conversation answer is something that provides information rather than validates the input peter1138 :)
03:34<Phazorx>Smoovious: that was just statement based on behavioral similarities :)
03:34<Smoovious>it did provide information
03:35<Chris82>peter, or any other dev, do you have some suggestions for me what I can change with daypatch to get it eventually in trunk :D ?
03:35<Smoovious>the question itself was invalid... it assumes XOR which didn't apply.
03:35<Chris82>I've rewritten the whole patch to make it work with an inline function already which should've have helped at least a little
03:36<Smoovious>er... logical OR... not XOR
03:36<Phazorx>it assumed or
03:36<Phazorx>however that's all spemantics... i wonder what exactly does server do with the map then
03:36<Luukland>......... >_<
03:37<Luukland>Who started this silly discussion?!
03:37<Luukland>Pfff... Don't you have better things to do :P
03:37[~]Smoovious points to Phazorx
03:37<@peter1138>bitwise operators are great; 1 or 2 equals 3. 1 and 2 equals 0.
03:38<@peter1138>Phazorx: grow trees, change farm fields, flood water...
03:38<dihedral>Chris82: how did it work out yesterday - you got my email?
03:38<@peter1138>every tile is periodically updated. more tiles, more updates.
03:39<Phazorx>trees and flood does apply... i was kinda hoping that animation is client side only
03:39<Smoovious>everything calculated on one side, is identically calculated everywhere else
03:39<Phazorx>peter1138: so in order to grow trees - all map is analyzed rather than something added randomly?
03:39<@peter1138>nope, everything has to be synchronised
03:39<Smoovious>or... DESYNC
03:40<Smoovious>it is added randomly
03:40<Smoovious>all computers would add it randomly together
03:40<Phazorx>peter1138: i dont see muhc point in sinchronizing tidal tiles or state of any particular field, or lights sequence of thaetre animation
03:41<@peter1138>well palette animation isn't synchroized
03:41<@peter1138>even with an n
03:41<Phazorx>but farms tiles actuly have differen type?
03:42<@peter1138>yes, of course.
03:42<Phazorx>i had hoped that it is jst client animatioon... sound very useless for server
03:42<Phazorx>kinda representational matter only
03:42<Smoovious>but then again, you have no idea how i t works
03:42<Smoovious>no, it isn't
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03:42<Phazorx>what difference does it make for the server?
03:43<Phazorx>peter1138: how does tree growing works?
03:43<Smoovious>the different stages of farmland are different sprites... different type of land...
03:44<Phazorx>Smoovious: that is representation which is only visualy visible as different element rendederd on client side, has no influence on game logic of the server
03:44<Smoovious>if it isn't identical on the server and client, the map desyncs because they're different... they need to be i denticaal as different swatches of farmland are periodically placed around the farm... and farmland costs more to clear
03:44<Smoovious>no, it isn't
03:44<Smoovious>Phazorx... you know what a random seed is, right?
03:45<Phazorx>is the cost of clearing farm tile type 1 is different from farm tile 2 ?
03:45<Phazorx>Smoovious: i know how randomization works within ottd
03:45<Phazorx>my point is - in this particular case it is not necesasry to cunch that information
03:45<Smoovious>sure about that?
03:45<Smoovious>yes, it is
03:45<Phazorx>whether it does it now or not that is different
03:46<Phazorx>Smoovious: please, explain why server should care if it is grteen field or brown?
03:46<Smoovious>as I just said... they're d ifferent sprites, with different land identifications... that isn't palette animation... it is changing one kind of tile, to another...
03:46<@peter1138>trees are important :)
03:46<Smoovious>I did... twice
03:46<@peter1138>they have to be synchronised
03:46<Phazorx>Smoovious: you are only stating how it is now, not explaining why is it needed
03:46<Phazorx>peter1138: trees are, indeed
03:47<Phazorx>but not farms
03:47<Smoovious>everything the client does, the server and other clients also have to do, at t he same moment
03:47<Smoovious>yes, we are
03:47<Smoovious>you're just not listening
03:47<@peter1138>and how much processing time would you save by skipping field updates?
03:47<@peter1138>i'd say none
03:47<Phazorx>Smoovious: why does server not syncronizing screen sizes of all client, or which windows are opened
03:47<@peter1138>well, not none, but negligable
03:47<Phazorx>or location of map view point?
03:47<Smoovious>quite a bit, s ince the clients would desync quite often
03:48<Smoovious>cuz the screen sizes have nothing to do with game play or the state of the map
03:48<Phazorx>peter1138: on 4096x4096 it could be quite a bit
03:48<@peter1138>4096x4096 isn't possible
03:48<Phazorx>peter1138: that wasnt my point
03:48[~]dihedral slaps Chris82
03:48<Phazorx>read big map
03:49<@peter1138>you should profile it.
03:49<@peter1138>updating a farm field is a tiny amount of work
03:49<Phazorx>Smoovious: type of particular farm tile has nothign to do with gameplay either
03:49<Rubidium>no, but whether a tile is "brown" or "green" or a "farm" tile does
03:49<Phazorx>peter1138: it is nothign compared to yapf, indeed but perhaps there are other things liek that
03:49<Smoovious>the different farm tiles, are different sprites... as I already said now, three times...
03:50<Phazorx>sprites matter only for rendedr Smoovious, which server lacks
03:50<Smoovious>they have different tile #'s... when h ashed, the map hashes, would be different from client to server...
03:50<Smoovious>which desync's...
03:50<Rubidium>oh, the state of the farm tiles matters too
03:50<Smoovious>no, they don't
03:50<blathijs>Smoovious: What would be the gain of not synchronizing farm land types?
03:50<Phazorx>Smoovious: you seem to miss my poiont.. i know how it is now... but it makes very little sense to me
03:50<Smoovious>blathijs pardon?!
03:50<Phazorx>Rubidium: how
03:50<Rubidium>because they get removed when the farm stops producing, but only after it is "fully" grown
03:51<blathijs>Smoovious: Why would we want to not synchronize it?
03:51<Smoovious>I get your point, Phazorx... you just won't listen to why peter1138 and I are telling you, your point is flawed
03:51<Rubidium>and *if* the server didn't do it, it would get different cost for destroying the tile -> boom
03:51<Phazorx>Rubidium: really ?
03:51<Smoovious>blathijs... pardon?
03:51<Phazorx>and rest just keeps fruiting till then?
03:51<Smoovious>blathijs... please scroll back and catch up with the convo
03:51<Phazorx>Smoovious: untill Rubidium meantying this peter1138 was in agreemenet with me
03:52<Smoovious>Phazorx... you and I must have very different i deas of 'in agreement'
03:52<Phazorx>perhaps you are still stuck at synchronization matter rather than moved on to question why is it necesary to do it in this partiular case :)
03:52<stillunknown>uint8 cached_veh_length; // length of this vehicle in units of 1/8 of normal length, cached because this can be set by a callback
03:53<blathijs>Smoovious: So, only to reduce the load on a dedicated server?
03:53<stillunknown>Is this actually correct, it's more like normal units.
03:53<Phazorx>Rubidium: i guess it adds to eyecandy
03:53<Smoovious>and we've told you 3 times now why it i s necessary
03:53<Rubidium>and the whole palette animation is done client side *if* enabled, all other animation isn't
03:53<@peter1138>stillunknown: 1/8th of a train length happens to be 1 normal unit
03:53<Smoovious>but farm tiles, are not done by palette animation
03:53<Smoovious>they're different sprites
03:54<Phazorx>Rubidium: i was just thinking of clear separatio between gamelogic relevant and rendeder relevant parts
03:54<Rubidium>the farm fields are part of the game logic
03:54[~]Smoovious nods.
03:54<Rubidium>because they cost more to destroy
03:54<Smoovious>which I already mentioned
03:55<Phazorx>Rubidium: i see that now, i didnt know that there are conditional removal of particular type only at farm death
03:55<stillunknown>peter1138: Is it possible that cached_veh_length is not always correct?
03:55<Phazorx>Rubidium: that wasnt my point, difference between farm tile types was
03:55<Smoovious>they're different sprites... different land ID's...
03:55<@peter1138>stillunknown: under what circumstances?
03:56<Smoovious>if t hey aren't i dentical between server and all clients, they desync
03:56<Rubidium>Smoovious: the fact that they are different sprites has *NOTHING* to do with the fact that it affects the game logic
03:56<Smoovious>and has nothing to do witht hashing the map?
03:56<Phazorx>back to trees... i was wondering how tree growing wroks... as peter said it is proportional to map size... is it analysing every tile or picks them randomly?
03:56<stillunknown>peter1138: always
03:56<stillunknown>peter1138: when a train is moving
03:56<@peter1138>stillunknown: you're saying it's not always correct always?
03:57<@peter1138>what value have you got, and what did you expect?
03:57<Rubidium>Phazorx: it's done in the tile loop stuff; clear tiles randomly place trees, whereas tree tiles randomly upgrade/downgrade trees
03:57<@peter1138>Smoovious: what is this "hashing the map" you talk of?
03:58<stillunknown>Let me put this way, all the cars align perfectly(various size cars), except the tender is sticking half way in the train, which suggests a newgrf error (hopefully).
03:58<Smoovious>peter1138... like... for the hashes that are compared to check for desync's? I seem to remember that was an issue in 0.4.8
03:58<@peter1138>most likely
03:58<Phazorx>Rubidium: i mean is it based on analyzyz of all tiles or engine randonmly picks some to update?
03:58<Rubidium>hashes used for desync? that's new for me
03:58<@peter1138>Smoovious: random seeds are checked, there is no hash checking
03:59<Rubidium>Phazorx: it iterates over all tiles and then randomly places a tree
03:59<Phazorx>Rubidium: ocuh :)
03:59<Smoovious>then I misunderstood the convo about it back then... and stand corrected
04:00<@peter1138>Phazorx: you need to understand how the tileloop process works :)
04:00<Phazorx>peter1138: perhaps... but in grame scale of things that can be omitted
04:00<@peter1138>iterates over all tiles does not mean every tile every tick
04:00<Phazorx>peter1138: what does it mean then ?
04:01<@peter1138>it means what it say
04:01<Rubidium>that every tile gets a tileloop tick every X game ticks
04:01<Rubidium>and not all tiles get that tick at the same time
04:01<stillunknown>I wonder how anyone ever programmed ttd.
04:01<blathijs>We could probably refrain from synchronizing different farm types and other presentation-only aspects, but since we're only comparing random seeds it won't cost anything to do it, and it would require some way to clearly distinguish between things that are and are not synchronized
04:02<Rubidium>blathijs: farm types aren't presentation only
04:02<blathijs>then we couldn't :-)
04:02<@peter1138>stillunknown: chris sawyer clearly has armies of gnomes
04:02<blathijs>Rubidium: Or we could make them presentation only :-p
04:02<Rubidium>when you delete a farm, all farm tiles continue to grow except the one that "restarts" the farm growth (that one removes the farm tile)
04:05<@peter1138>handlelocomotivesmokecloud ;)
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04:08[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 with a fish
04:08<dihedral>this is fun :-P
04:10<stillunknown>I know understand what bitch custom bridge heads must have been.
04:10<stillunknown>*I now
04:10<stillunknown>*what a bitch
04:10[~]Chris82 slaps dihedral around a bit with a large trout
04:11<Chris82>hmmm inflation seems a bit insane in long games
04:11[~]dihedral dunks Chris82 in fish&chip batter
04:11<Chris82>I have a test game running which is at 2113 right now
04:11<Chris82>and a Lev 4 Chimera costs 209 million :D lol
04:12<Chris82>whoa :o
04:12<Chris82>building a coal mine costs 9,2 billion lmfao
04:12<@peter1138>inflation works then
04:12<@peter1138>although i thought it was supposed to stop
04:12<Chris82>well I can't say I have too much money :D I only have 2,2 billion but I also only have like 40 road vehicles
04:12<Chris82>the game is very unstable though
04:13<Chris82>world population is 6,7 million and there are around 3000 vehicles in the game (waggons not counted)
04:13<Chris82>the game crashes every few minutes
04:13<dihedral>Chris82: how did you get along yesterday evening?
04:13<Chris82>I just unpacked your stuff and try it now :)
04:13[~]dihedral is curious :-)
04:14[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 just for the fun of it
04:14<Chris82>I was actually testing longtime stability of the game with this ultra long game
04:14<dihedral>nice idea :-)
04:14<Chris82>the largest city is almost 100k :D lol
04:14<Chris82>but I said the game has become pretty unstable since around 2110
04:14<Chris82>but as*
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04:16<@peter1138>Chris82: got a save? :p
04:16<Chris82>but inflation is really crazy, is it a hard coded percentage?
04:16<Chris82>yeah but you need my ChrisIN to load it
04:16<@peter1138>no wonder ;)
04:17<Chris82>26th Mar 2113, I can't get any further
04:18<Chris82>time to start a game with r10383-trunk and see how far it goes :D
04:18<dihedral>Chris82: can you actually get .htaccess files to work with the windows webserver?
04:18<Chris82>there is a tool that enables .htaccess files on IIS yes
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04:18<dihedral>another question: why do you use IIS and not apache2? :-D
04:19<Chris82>ewwww Apache sucks
04:19[~]dihedral likes apache2!
04:19<Chris82>I am using 64-bit IIS6 and I am pretty happy with it
04:19<dihedral>well then
04:19<Chris82>I am alos already testing IIS7 which has superior performance to Apache2
04:20<hylje>iis6 is nice but unfortunately it locks you in to windows
04:20<hylje>kernel mode webserver, heh
04:22<Chris82>dihedral: htscanner will support htaccess on IIS but that's not the tool I meant actually
04:22<Chris82>I have too many favorites to find it right now :p
04:22<dihedral>was just being curious
04:22<dihedral>because you can set the include path in .htaccess files
04:23<dihedral>with a php_val include_path ".:pear" instead of what i did, setting it at the top of php files
04:23<Chris82>I don't like such behaviour on websites though
04:24<Chris82>I don't feel save when a site I host has access to a folder not available to the public
04:24[~]dihedral thinks that's worth a slap :-D
04:24<Chris82>just started a r10383 unpatched game on fw :D let's see if it beats my IN in long time stability *ggg*
04:25<dihedral>i have setup apache2 in a way that i never have to revonfigure/restart apache even if i start hosting another domain
04:25<hylje>Chris82: might you have thought of private space? like settings files..
04:25<Chris82>what do you mean by private space?
04:25<dihedral>hehe, hylje: what about virtual machines :-)
04:25<hylje>things a site may use that is not public
04:26<Chris82>well one security hole in there and you never know what happens
04:26<Chris82>I don't tend to use features that I don't really need
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04:26<Chris82>bad enough that PHP is enabled *g* :p
04:27<Chris82>a few other people have their sites on my server and one guy made a pretty flawed PHP contact script which I had to take off
04:27<dihedral>once you start hosting a lot of other peoples stuff you tend to have a bunch of stuff
04:27<Chris82>because it could be misused to send mail to foreign domains
04:27<Chris82>and since the mails were not going through my ASSP proxy I couldn't block it
04:28<dihedral>Chris82: i tend not to continue hosting such people's stuff
04:28<hylje>why do you assert having a non-public part of a site being a security hole moreso than the public part?
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04:32<Chris82>because PHP apps often have security issues
04:32<Chris82>and therefore I don't want a PHP script to access anything on C:
04:32<Chris82>all websites are on a different hd
04:33<hylje>why would a non-public script access /C when a public doesnt?
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04:35<Chris82>dunno you just sometimes read stuff like a php script had includes lying on c and because the script was badly coded through a security hole in php you could access to the drive where the includes were residing
04:35<hylje>so actually your settings or php itself just suck
04:36<Chris82>yeah thus I don't allow much to php scripts
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04:38<dihedral>chroot the webserver :-)
04:40<dihedral>personally i think that works great :-)
04:40<dihedral>+ chroot of ssh logins :-)
04:40<Chris82>I obviously don't use SSH tho :p
04:40<dihedral>ftp then
04:41<dihedral>you can though install an ssh server on windows :-D
04:41<Chris82>you mean rdp?
04:41<Chris82>not ftp?
04:41<dihedral>you allow others to rdp to your server?
04:41<Chris82>nooo lol
04:42<Chris82>sorry didn't get what you mean lol
04:42<dihedral>has the zip worked yet?
04:42<Chris82>just upload it
04:48<stillunknown>When did this stop being the openttd channel?
04:48<dihedral>oh - am i in an openttd channel?
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04:49<dihedral>hello elmz
04:55<Chris82>WHAT THE :O
04:55<Chris82>AI cheats lmao
04:55<Chris82>they just demolished a road field from my own highway
04:56<dihedral>it it were possible the other way around that should be fine
04:57<Chris82>hmmm isn't the autorenew not working when servicing disabled fixed?
04:58<elmz>I just realized why my junctions werent all that efficient....never even thought of the speed limit om girder steel bridges ^^
04:59<elmz>kinda sux that you cant build tubular bridges of 3 squares in length...
04:59<hylje>elmz: :o
04:59<Chris82>hmmmm 6 fountains next to each other aren't very smart either
04:59<dihedral>would be a nice addition
04:59<dihedral>LOL Chris82
05:01<elmz>guessing hes speakin of a town :P
05:02<Chris82>yeah, I was on fw
05:02<Chris82>and they just build 6 fountains right next to each other
05:02<Chris82>and there were 5 statues nearby as well
05:02<Chris82>I am just running ChrisIN and r10383 on FW on one CPU each and see which game crashes earlier :D *g*
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05:05<stillunknown>Chris82: It's more interesting to test trunk for potentional problems.
05:06<Chris82>I also test performance if ChrisIN is slower, but so far they both show roughly the same day and year
05:06<Chris82>r10383 is trunk?
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05:10<stillunknown>Chris82: You don't know what trunk is?
05:10<hylje>how does Chris82 know what a trunk is
05:11<Chris82>r10383 is the latest version in trunk
05:11<Brianetta>It's the latest revision in trunk
05:12<Brianetta>revision and version are not necessarily the same thing
05:12<Chris82>or revision ok :)
05:12<elmz>...but we all got the point :P
05:12<stillunknown>I just got the strangest error, floating point exception :-|
05:12<Chris82>and if you mean if I know what the word trunk means, yes I do, it's the main stem of a tree :p
05:12<@peter1138>stillunknown: usually division by zero
05:13<@peter1138>i have no idea what FP has to do with it...
05:13<SmatZ>Chris82: isn't "trunk" the well known part of elephant's body, too?
05:13<elmz>and the trunk of a car? :P
05:13<Chris82>well overflow, underflow, inexact calculation can all be a fp exception
05:14<Chris82>haha I don't know about that elmz
05:14<SmatZ>I am glad I can learn new English words here :)
05:14<Brianetta>Comparing nought with zero is a fraught process in floating point
05:14<Chris82>stillunknown: Where did you get the fp exception?
05:14<Brianetta>Plus or minus zero times ten to the power of plus or minus anything
05:15<stillunknown>Nothing that isn't my fault ;-)
05:15<Chris82>hmmm it seems that some of the IN patches have quite some performance impact
05:16<Chris82>trunk is almost a year ahead after 20 minutes
05:16<@peter1138>elmz: no, cars have boots, not trunks
05:16<Chris82>boots? what part of a car is called boot?
05:16<Chris82>aren't boots "strong" shoes
05:16<@peter1138>Brianetta: correct. i'm assuming stillunknown was refering to an error from openttd, and there's not a lot of floating point there...
05:17<Chris82>like my Crusader in Ragnarok is wearing boots *g*
05:17<@peter1138>it's the bit that isn't the bonnet
05:17<Chris82>a car trunk is a compartment in an automobile that carries luggage or shopping or tools btw
05:18<stillunknown>Remember there are different kinds of english, with subtle or less than subtle differences.
05:19<Chris82>well British English is usually considered the "correct" English while all others are derivates from it
05:19<elmz>yes, we have british, international and stupid english ;)
05:19<Brianetta>peter1138: I got a floating point exception last night.
05:19<Chris82>just like Bavarian is not "Hochdeutsch" (High German)
05:19<Brianetta>I copied my whole openttd checkout from my workstation to my laptop.
05:19<Brianetta>FC6 to FC5
05:19<Brianetta>Ran ./openttd, and it bombed out with an FP exception immediately.
05:19<Brianetta>make mrproper
05:20<Brianetta>all fixed.
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05:22<stillunknown>Sometimes i wonder why i pick the hard challenges, i can't just do a small feature, no i have to rewrite a core part of openttd.
05:22<stillunknown>With all the fun that comes with it.
05:23<stillunknown>I just hope that in the end it performs better, otherwise i'll be sad.
05:24<dihedral>Brianetta: -bash: mkae: command not found
05:25<Brianetta>dihedral: You need to install Gnu mkaetools (:
05:26<dihedral>though there is no Mkaefile
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05:27[~]Chris82 slaps dihedral around a bit with a large trout
05:27<Chris82>your php all in once package doesn't work :D
05:27<Chris82>also when I try to open your php file instead of seeing a blank page or something the php code is parsed
05:28<Chris82>do you use non default php tags?
05:28<dihedral><? ?>
05:28<dihedral>ftp or rdp for good old dihedral ?
05:28<Chris82>just a sec I make an ftp account
05:28<dihedral>and perhaps a web address :-P
05:30<Chris82>see query :)
05:31<Chris82>vBulletin uses <?php I think <? is not enabled in the php config file
05:31[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 with a small trout just to experience the difference
05:32[~]Chris82 is not even being tickled by this really really little trout
05:33<dihedral>am i supposed to get an email from you?
05:34<Chris82>didn't you get my query?
05:34<dihedral>nope - using irssi - command line tool
05:34<Chris82>ahhh lol :D
05:34<Chris82>k I send a mail
05:34[~]dihedral slaps the trout with Chris82
05:35[~]Chris82 is too heavy for being used as slapper
05:35<Chris82>mail sent
05:36[~]dihedral does not even work up a sweat slapping Chris82 around - he weights nothing at all!!
05:37<Chris82>hmmmm I mention it again...
05:38<Chris82>auto renew does NOT work when servicing is disabled
05:38<Chris82>although trunk log tells me otherwise (i.e. it's supposed to be a fixed bug)
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05:39<stillunknown>Ah, i almost forgot the existence of ignore.
05:41<hylje>well.. ignore's existence's point is that it makes stuff not exist
05:48<dihedral>Chris82: what happend to your server?
05:48<dihedral>cannot reach the page...
05:49[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 with a mid-sized trout
05:50<Chris82>my server is fine why?
05:51|-|Gekkko` [] has joined #openttd
05:51<dihedral>getting Service Unavailable
05:51<Chris82>your PHP had multiple failures so the App Pool was disabled :p
05:52<Chris82>it's back
05:52<dihedral>yeah - ok
05:52<dihedral>Chris82: The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
05:52<stillunknown>\ignore nathaneal@*
05:52<dihedral>thanks stillunknown
05:53<dihedral>but it's nathanael
05:53<stillunknown>spelled wrong
05:53<dihedral>and you may want a forward slash
05:53<Chris82>diheadral: I added the URL to its own AppPool now so it doesn't crash the other pages in the pool ;)
05:53<dihedral>and well done for looking up the whois :-)
05:54<dihedral>Chris82: still get a "connection reset by peer"
05:54<Chris82>which URI do you try to open?
05:55<stillunknown>It's not working :-(
05:55<dihedral>stillunknown: perhaps because my name aint known here!!
05:55<dihedral>you would have to use my nick!
05:56<stillunknown>tried that too
05:56<dihedral>that just is tough luck :-)
05:56<Chris82>I dunno what's wrong with your php site but it crashes the AppPool :p
05:57<dihedral>is sais "page not found" when i access
05:58<dihedral>iis sucks
05:58|-|Gekkko` [] has quit [Quit: - Now less gay.]
05:58<Chris82> < dihedral makes my clean event log dirty :D
06:00<dihedral>what does the error one say?
06:01<Chris82>well your script just keeps terminating unexpectingly and that shuts down the app pool after too many crashes
06:01<Chris82>it's some php or pear problem
06:01<Chris82>I disabled rapid fail protection for now
06:02<Chris82>try example.php those php code isn't parsed properly
06:02<dihedral>because of the <? tag
06:03<Chris82>set_include_path( '.;pear' ); < this won't work
06:03<Chris82>you must use 'pear' or '/pear'
06:04<Chris82>and '\pear' should work as well
06:05<Chris82>and require_once( 'HTML/Template/Sigma.php' ); doesn't exist, how does the script know this dir is in the pear directory?
06:05<dihedral>which has to be in the include path :-)
06:06<dihedral>i set include path to the full path of this thing...
06:06<dihedral>still no luck
06:07<Chris82>I am just checking what could be wrong
06:11<Chris82>ok the file is fine now but Sigma.php doesn't find PEAR.php hmmm
06:11<dihedral>the include path setting is fine
06:11<dihedral>i know a dirty hack :-P
06:11<dihedral>na - will not work!
06:12<dihedral>na - take out the ../../ again
06:12<dihedral>does not work that way :-P
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06:15<Chris82>bugger :(
06:15<dihedral>i would need to see those error messages Chris82
06:15<Chris82>I gotta go now unfortunately
06:15<Chris82>we need to continue on this matter later on
06:16<Chris82>require_once 'PEAR.php'; < this line isn't working as it should in Sigma.php
06:16<Chris82>well I'll check it later
06:16<Chris82>see ya
06:19<dihedral>Chris82: the require_once statements do work
06:20<dihedral>just tried it from info.php
06:20<Phazorx>was there some grf for lighter canopy trams tracks?
06:21<Chris82>the easiest solution would be to make it work without PEAR :D cuz PHP itself works fine on the server
06:21<Chris82>anyway gotta hurry my girlfriend is waiting :p
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06:25<Gekkko>Chris82: did you fix your ChrisIN?
06:49|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
06:49<stillunknown>Is there existing routine for reversing all the next pointers of a vehicle?
06:49|-|Luukland [] has joined #openttd
06:50<blathijs>stillunknown: There should be something like that for dualhead trains, I'd say
06:50<Sacro>:o it speaks
06:54<dihedral>Chris82: problem lies in openttd.class.php
06:54<dihedral>the function call stream_select() seems to be causing issues!!
06:54<dihedral>line 438
06:55<dihedral>has nothing to do with pear!
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07:02<Luukland>How do English people call: Antwerpen? (near Bruxelles)
07:02<Luukland>Just Antwerp? :)
07:02<dihedral>twerp :-)
07:02<Gekkko>and Brussels
07:02<Luukland>Yeah :P
07:02<Luukland>Making an English scenario :)
07:03<Luukland>So i need those town names :)
07:03<Gekkko>no worries :P
07:04[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 just for the fun of it
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10384 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-29 14:03:32
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 261 fixed, 9 changed by tperic (270)
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changed by habazi (2)
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by miham (1)
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 1 fixed, 38 changed by CrystyB (39)
07:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 fixed by mad (1)
07:05<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
07:05|-|th_gergo [] has joined #openttd
07:05<_42_>Sacro, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 11 hours 28 minutes ago (29.06. 00:36) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 5 hours 43 minutes there.
07:05<Luukland>!seen Jupix
07:05<_42_>Luukland, Jupix? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember Jupix.
07:05<Sacro>@seen Jupiz
07:06<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Jupiz.
07:06<Sacro>@seen Jupix
07:06<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Jupix.
07:06<Luukland>So Finally my England Scenario is done!!
07:09<@peter1138>12:59 < Luukland> How do English people call: Antwerpen? (near Bruxelles)
07:09|-|thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:09<Luukland>It is Northwestern Europe :P
07:09<@peter1138>it always amuses me that countries' city names have different names in other languages...
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07:14<stillunknown>KUDr_wrk: Is there a distance_to function in yapf that accepts x and y coordinates?
07:14<stillunknown>for rail
07:15<@peter1138>or tileindex ?
07:15<stillunknown>It exists for tileindex i think.
07:15<stillunknown>But i need specific coordinates.
07:16<stillunknown>I need the proper distance between vehicles when reversing, and no this is not trunk.
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07:18<stillunknown>When leaving depots i can make all sorts of assumptions which work great, but outside a lot more comes into play.
07:19<stillunknown>peter1138: So if you have secret ideas, don't hesitate to share them ;-)
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07:24<dihedral>does anybody have any ideas as to why stream_select() on windows php5 64bit iis causes iis to crash?
07:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10385 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: [Translations] Croatian is an accepted language
07:29<@peter1138>because php is buggy shit
07:29<@peter1138>there's quite a few hits on google for that
07:29<KUDr_wrk>[14:16:17] <stillunknown> KUDr_wrk: Is there a distance_to function in yapf that accepts x and y coordinates? << distance to WHAT it should count?
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07:31<KUDr_wrk>stillunknown: yapf uses distance between target tile (center) and tile edge (tile/exitdir) when it calculates estimates
07:38|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:40<stillunknown>KUDr_wrk: Distance between two points on the center of rail
07:41<@peter1138>as the crow flies?
07:42<stillunknown>Follow the rail, but with x and y coordinate precision.
07:44<KUDr_wrk>stillunknown: virtual coords (16/tile) or tile coords (1/tile)? Some general distance functions exist but not in yapf
07:48<@peter1138>virtual coords i think
07:48<@peter1138>sounds to me like the wrong solution to a problem
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07:55<Brianetta>It's a solution desperately in need of a problem
07:56|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
07:57<Sacro>mmm, not good
07:57<Brianetta>Not good?
07:57<Brianetta>Hotdog sausages
07:57<Brianetta>with mustard
07:57<Sacro>Brianetta: i tried to type a message and peer reset me :(
07:57<Brianetta>Erection reset by beer
07:57<Sacro>ooh yes... with mustard, ketchup and onions...
07:57<Sacro>quite fancy that now
07:59<Brianetta>Ready for an early start?
07:59<Sacro>no i'm not :(
07:59<Sacro>i don't even know my route
07:59<Brianetta>Have you rung Virgin?
07:59<Brianetta>My advice is to ring them today
08:01<Sacro>well Northern Rail are running buses from Doncaster to Sheffield
08:01<Sacro>but personally, i'd rather divert via leeds
08:01<Brianetta>Your ticket isn't with Northern (:
08:02<Brianetta>well, not the important bit
08:02<Sacro>isn't it?
08:02<Sacro>well... no
08:02<Sacro>but if Northern won't let me connect at Leeds
08:02<Brianetta>This is why I said to ring up
08:02<Sacro>i'm trying to find anumber
08:02<Brianetta>Fact is, they sold you a ticket and they have to work together to honour it if possible
08:03<Sacro>do i ring Virgin, or National Rail?
08:05[~]Sacro uses saynoto0870
08:07<Sacro>Brianetta: do i want customer relations?
08:07<@peter1138>that's complaints,heh
08:08<Sacro>they don't put any numbers on their website
08:08<Sacro>i thought by law they had to
08:08<@peter1138>who don't?
08:08<Sacro>we have to have a page with company info...
08:08<Brianetta>Only the postal address is a legal requirement
08:08<Sacro>i don't see that either
08:09<Brianetta>Whose site are you on?
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08:10<Brianetta>08457 222 333
08:10<Sacro>the national rail line?
08:10<Brianetta>no, that's 08457 48 49 50
08:11<Sacro>oh yeah
08:11[~]Sacro grabs the non 0845 number
08:11<dihedral>that is just sick Brianetta
08:12<dihedral>how often do you have to call them to know those numbers off by heart?
08:12<Sacro>0845 numbers are expensive when calling off a mobile
08:12<Brianetta>Virgin Trains 85 Smallbrook Queensway Birmingham B5 4HA
08:12<Brianetta>You can go and see them in person (:
08:12<Sacro>Brianetta: only if they let me change at leeds
08:12<dihedral>Brianetta: does your girl know about this?
08:12<Brianetta>know about what?
08:13<dihedral>the shocking fact that you know these details off by heart
08:13<Brianetta>She works for a travel agency
08:13[~]dihedral bangs his head on the table
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08:14<Sacro>first they read the number i read as 08457 484 950
08:14<Sacro>and then its a voice activated switchboard
08:14<Sacro>can they not just say it as 48 49 50
08:15<dihedral>you probably also got redirected to a call centre in india :-P_
08:15<Brianetta>I learned it first as 484 950
08:15<Sacro>dihedral: could be worse, could be brummies
08:15<dihedral>i do work
08:15<Brianetta>back when it was 0845 484 950
08:15[~]dihedral slaps Sacro in the hope he stops shouting around
08:16<Sacro>i hate call centres
08:16<Sacro>ever since i used to work in one
08:16<dihedral>it worked :-)
08:16<dihedral>must have been a shock
08:16<Sacro>I DONT WANT TO PRESS 1
08:16<Sacro>i just want to talk to a real person D:
08:16[~]dihedral slaps Sacro over and over again
08:16<dihedral>this is fun
08:17<Sacro>yes,,, its an indian
08:17[~]Sacro tries to slow down his talking and tone down his accent
08:17<dihedral>was his first sentance: "what i can do for you?"
08:17<Sacro>her... and yes :p
08:18<dihedral>i miss the uk
08:19<Brianetta>Sacro comes from near Ull
08:19<Sacro>Brianetta: in 'Ull
08:19<Brianetta>That's how he'd say Hull
08:19<dihedral>they dont say bu''er instead of butter and stuff like that do they?
08:20<Brianetta>Yes indeed
08:20<Sacro>... yes
08:20<Brianetta>only it's boo''ah
08:20<dihedral>good job you dont have a t in Sacro
08:20<Sacro>its a Yorkshire accent with no t's or h's
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08:20<Brianetta>You can' ge''a be''a bi''a bu''a on yer knife
08:21<Brianetta>Actual butter advert for Golden Churn
08:21[~]dihedral slaps Sacro wi'' a 'ou'
08:21<Sacro>Brianetta: thats actually how i sound D:
08:21<dihedral>missin an r there i know
08:21<Brianetta>I ave a selection of accents that come naturally
08:22<Sacro>yes, i can do west yorkshiree when i'm with someone from there
08:22<Brianetta>I have a UK armed forces accent, from my upbringing
08:22<Sacro>she's check
08:22<Brianetta>A west country accent from ten years in Wiltshire
08:22<Brianetta>and a bit of a Geordie sound from living up here for the last 13 years
08:22<Sacro>i just heard a dixie horn...
08:23<Brianetta>and I can switch between them, depending on who I'm talking to
08:23<Brianetta>Bah, wasn't Golden Churn
08:23<Brianetta>THat's fake butter
08:24<Sacro>now need to call 08707891234
08:25|-|Fuchsi| [] has joined #openttd
08:25<elmz>hehe, only thing I can switch between is british and american english ^^
08:25<Gekkko>the real English.
08:25<Sacro>Proper British
08:25<Brianetta>English is English
08:25|-|Dikuj [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:25<elmz>and my accents most likely dont resemble anything in either place
08:25<Gekkko>Brianetta: not true.
08:25<Sacro>Received Pronounciation...
08:25|-|Fuchsi| changed nick to Dikuj
08:25<Gekkko>US English has so many weird phrases
08:26<Brianetta>Gekkko: Don't start lumping the Scottish in with us
08:26<Gekkko>and lacks the letter "u" in many cases
08:26<Gekkko>Canceling doesnt look right
08:26<Gekkko>it's Cancelling damn it
08:26<Brianetta>And that tosh the Yanks speak isn't English
08:26<Brianetta>It's American
08:26<Gekkko>US English == American
08:26<Gekkko>unlike French where each country that speaks french doesnt speak Guinea French
08:26<Gekkko>or France French
08:27<Gekkko>just French.
08:27<Gekkko>America had to go screw it up.
08:27<Sacro>well national rail say to do Hull Donny on train
08:27<Sacro>then donny sheff on bus
08:27<@peter1138>fun journey :o
08:28<Sacro>peter1138: its cos i have a seat reservation
08:28<Sacro>what? i wasn't listening to the options ><
08:29[~]Sacro will act like he doesn't have DTMF and just sit here
08:32<Sacro>2nd in the queue...
08:32<Brianetta>Gekkko: Don't try telling a Frenchman that the Canadians speak his language
08:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10386 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: [translations] croatian translators made a few type which prevented croatian langfile to be compiled. reported by boekabart
08:33<Gekkko>Brianetta: anything on the North American continent should be ashamed
08:33<@Belugas>Gekkko : why?
08:33<Gekkko>Abuse of existance.
08:33<dihedral>lol - Belugas
08:33<Gekkko>Canada to a lesser extent, mainly north-east.
08:34<dihedral>Gekkko: i have no idea where you are from, but there is one thing i know for sure
08:34<dihedral>idiots are born in every country :-D
08:34[~]dihedral grins
08:34<Gekkko>especially yours
08:34<elmz>Canadians are actually very sane people.....compared to americans :P
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08:34<dihedral>na - that was not a could return
08:35<Gekkko>elmz: tell that to me after the one i spoke to today
08:35<Gekkko>"You can't install linux from australia on a canadian computer"
08:35<Gekkko>'yes you can'
08:35<@Belugas>somehow, i still don't get it, Gekkko. I'm in Canada, Quebec. I speak french and english...
08:35<Brianetta>Gekkko's from that great antipodean "English" speaking country
08:35<elmz>haha, immigrant, no doubt :P
08:35<Gekkko>"no you cant, like PS2 games."
08:35<Gekkko>nope, pure canadian
08:35<Gekkko>and he things a TB is a Trilobyte
08:35<Gekkko>its a damn terabyte
08:35<@Belugas>pure canadian does not exists...
08:35<Brianetta>Belugas: It does. Innuit/
08:35<Gekkko>Pure Australian doesnt either
08:35<elmz>every country has weirdos though ^^
08:36<Gekkko>but for the sake of stfu, i shall continue
08:36<Gekkko>he says to me "I know, I'm good at math."
08:36<@Belugas>inuits are alomost in their own country ;)
08:36<Gekkko>I reply, 'I know, I'm ont a rock cross bred with a sponge.'
08:36<Sacro>i wonder if they'll chase me
08:36[~]dihedral slaps Gekkko
08:36[~]dihedral slaps Gekkko again
08:36<Gekkko>i wonder what rock on sponge sex would look like
08:36<Brianetta>Sacro: If there's a replacement bus on your route, you'll have to take it
08:36<Sacro>Brianetta: well that was a fun call
08:36<Sacro>Brianetta: no i don't
08:36<Gekkko>o\ something like that
08:37<Sacro>well, going there...
08:37<Sacro>she said i can go to leeds
08:37<Sacro>and connect
08:37<Sacro>they want me to go on the replacement bus
08:37|-|Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:37<Sacro>Hull - Doncaster - York - Birmingham
08:37<Sacro>on a GNER, which my ticket says "NO GNER"
08:38|-|Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
08:38<Sacro>and on the way back
08:38[~]dihedral laughs his head off
08:38<Sacro>either do Birmingham - York - Doncaster *stuck cos i missed the last connection to Hull*
08:38<dihedral>rail always sucked in the uk
08:39<Sacro>on the way back, she said i can either get off at Doncaster or York
08:39<Brianetta>No, it was fine until the 60s
08:39<Brianetta>Look up Dr. Richard Beeching
08:39<Sacro>would anyone stop me if i just got of at Leeds WHICH IS IN BETWEEN ><
08:39<Brianetta>He was director general of British Rail
08:39<Brianetta>and he was a complete f***tard
08:39<Sacro>Brianetta: would that help my situation?
08:39<Brianetta>Sacro: I was addressing dihedral
08:39<Sacro>Brianetta: true... sorry
08:40<dihedral>Sacro: why dont you just go by coatch
08:40<Sacro>dihedral: i've bought my tickets
08:40<dihedral>there must be some X something
08:40<Sacro>oh... here's the best bit
08:40<Sacro>to get off at leeds, i need to pay £7.50
08:40<Brianetta>Sacro: The BTP will be waiting for you at Leeds, and will arrest you as you step off the train.
08:40<Sacro>but i can get off at the stop before, or after, for free
08:41<Brianetta>Leeds has exit barriers
08:41<Sacro>Brianetta: i won't be leaving the station
08:41<Gekkko>Australia has no subway
08:41<Gekkko>and 3 hour train delays
08:41<Gekkko>go Australia.
08:41<dihedral>how is the floods over there btw?
08:41<Brianetta>Sacro: If you're just changing, I can't see anybody checking your ticket
08:41<Gekkko>and the toxins in Sydney are 4 times the safe level at peak hour
08:41<Brianetta>dihedral: Causing this fuss
08:41<Sacro>Brianetta: the problem is if Northern Rail have issues
08:41<dihedral>oh crap
08:41<dihedral>rent a car
08:42<dihedral>no one will stop you if you even go 90 on the motorways
08:42<Brianetta>Sacro: Is your bike still broken since you did that head-first somersault thing?
08:42<Sacro>the Virgin way seems to be a 4 hour journey there... and 4 hours back only to get stuck at Doncaster
08:42<Brianetta>dihedral: THey won't stop you, but you get a fine in the post for every camera you pass
08:42<Sacro>Brianetta: yes, plus it's stand is broken, plus it kinda got under 3 foot of water
08:43<dihedral>Brianetta: if you know where thos cameras are :-)
08:43<Gekkko>lol Sacro
08:43<Gekkko>the flood owned your bike?
08:43<Sacro>Gekkko: i dunno yet, not tried to start it
08:43<Gekkko>Engulfed and stolen by the one thing that we NEED to keep us alive
08:43<Brianetta>dihedral: There's a constitutional defence. You can't be tried and punished for the same crime more than once.
08:43<dihedral>i drove between oxford and cam for 2 years and never got anything
08:43<Gekkko>Brianetta: hahaha
08:43<Brianetta>If you speed for 40 miles, that's a single crime, no matter how many cameras see you do it.
08:44<dihedral>never got a single ticket
08:44<dihedral>and i also went the long way round
08:44<dihedral>ie. M40 M25 M11
08:45<dihedral>and not once did i have to slow down
08:45<dihedral>appart from oxford - london road and cambridge
08:45<dihedral>whatever the name of that road is
08:46<dihedral>but appart from that it was a constant 90 ;-P
08:46[~]Gekkko notes this to get dihedral a fine.
08:46<dihedral>Gekkko: will not :-)
08:46<Gekkko>So... how many times would you say you would have sped past?
08:46<Gekkko>10 times a week?
08:46<Gekkko>for 10 years?
08:47<Gekkko>5200 times you say?
08:47<dihedral>nearly every weekend for 2 years :-)
08:47<dihedral>2.5 years
08:47<Gekkko>416 times
08:47<Gekkko>you tard.
08:47<Gekkko>ruin my calculations
08:47<Gekkko>520 times.
08:49<dihedral>so - and what do you intend to do with that number?
08:49<dihedral>cuddle it at night so you dont feel so scared in the dark?
08:50<Gekkko>The dark fears me buddy.
08:50<dihedral>and that is where your goose bumps come from....? the dark fearing you?
08:51<Gekkko>I have a genetic trait where I have to poison people with cyanide.
08:51<Gekkko>wanna come to my house dihedral?
08:51<Gekkko>we can have a cyanide party.
08:52<dihedral>Gekkko: nothing in the world would get me even close to your house
08:52<dihedral>not even if 'close' meant 100 miles distance
08:53<Gekkko>but the thing is, I'm coming to you
08:53<Gekkko>you have 3 years to leave Germany.
08:53<Gekkko>and the vercinity of Germany
08:53<Sacro>Brianetta: what would you do?
08:54<dihedral>Sacro: do you mean: what would he do to Gekkko ?
08:54<dihedral>how about sticking a soldering ion up his ***...
08:54<Gekkko>iron son
08:54<Gekkko>I have two of them.
08:54<dihedral>now that explains a lot
08:54<Brianetta>Sacro: Is it the same pair of trains?
08:55<Sacro>Brianetta: what do you mean?
08:55<Brianetta>I mean I'm not clear what your options are
08:55<dihedral>Sacro: if there was a bus you *could* take
08:55<dihedral>i would check if i could not take the tickets back
08:55<Sacro>Brianetta: Hull - Doncaster - bus to Sheffield - Birmingham
08:55|-|Gekkko [kvirc@] has quit [Quit: - Now less gay.]
08:56<Sacro>or Hull - Doncaster - GNER to York, Birmingham
08:56<Brianetta>Will you make your connecting train?
08:56<Sacro>bus, i dunno
08:56<dihedral>whats the faster option?
08:56<Brianetta>I'd pay for Donny - York
08:56<Sacro>gner, yes, but i have to leave at 0650
08:57<Sacro>or Hull - Leeds/York - Bham
08:58<dihedral>ryanair :-P
09:02<@peter1138>i'd just go by car :p
09:03<Brianetta>Sacro has a motorcycle, but it's been flood damaged
09:04<@peter1138>silly floods
09:05<@peter1138>it's supposed to be summer :)
09:05<Brianetta>without which, we'd not be discussing alternative train routes
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09:15<dihedral>uk under water is a very bad thing
09:15<dihedral>half of england is blow sea level :-P
09:15<Gekko[PDA]>blow you say
09:16<stillunknown>Is there a single function that will reset all signals on a map?
09:16<dihedral>newgame :-P
09:16<Gekko[PDA]>reset as in?
09:18<stillunknown>Ignore me, i'm being stupid again.
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09:27<dihedral>Chris82 ??
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09:34<dihedral>Brianetta: stream_select is causing a crash on windows, php5.2.1
09:34<dihedral>do you know of a way to avoid it?
09:35<dihedral>i mean avoid using that function :-)
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09:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10387 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r10326, r10330): update unfinished langs
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09:38<dihedral>hmm... fstat() bring the same behavirou as stream_select()
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09:39<Gekko[PDA]>iis is gay.
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09:50<dihedral>Gekko[PDA]: iis is not causing the problem
09:52<@peter1138>it's php/64bit/ness
09:53<dihedral>i believe it's just php on windows
09:53<hylje>all of the above
09:53<dihedral>32 or 64 bit
09:54<dihedral>but i though it was just an issue with stream_select9)
09:54<dihedral>but seing as fstat() has the same behaviour as stream_select()
09:55<dihedral>my hope is that the fixes for the stream bugs in 5.2.2 and 5.2.3 solve the issue
09:56<hylje>you think php people fix bugs?
09:56<dihedral>if you have a look at their changelog :-)
09:56<hylje>theyll say, "no, it might break backwards compability!" and shrug it off
09:56<dihedral>and appart from the change log - i know that bugs have been fixed, yes
09:58<Brianetta>hylje: DOesn't stop them breaking backwards compatibility by deprecating functions where the "replacement" only replaces most of the task...
10:00[~]Chris82 jumps in the room and scares everybody of :D
10:01<Chris82>still trying to solve the PHP issue dihedral?
10:01[~]dihedral has a heart attack
10:01<Chris82>oh sorry :p
10:01<dihedral>Chris82: check your email
10:01<dihedral>i'ts a php bug
10:01<dihedral>and there is a slight chance an upgrade will fix the issue :-)
10:01<Chris82>lol really? never found any php bugs yet :D I'll check
10:02<Chris82>uhm well an upgrade is difficult, because as I said I use self-compiled 64-bit PHP
10:02<Chris82>nothing that would be available on
10:02<Chris82>but I'll see what I can do :)
10:02<Chris82>it's just that I don't want to use IIS in 32-bit compatibility mode, that's why I don't use the public version
10:02<eekee>oh aye, yer a software masochist like me then
10:03<dihedral>i dont think it's a 64bit issue
10:03<Chris82>hmmm you sent me an e-mail?
10:03<dihedral>are you good at processing xml files?
10:04<dihedral>yes i did
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10:05<Chris82>me? no not really
10:06<Chris82>I have some fundamental understanding, but it's not like I am a guru :p
10:06<Chris82>didn't get your mail
10:06<Gekko[PDA]>Chris82: how goes ChrisIN
10:06<Chris82>are you using an ISP Mail Server or do you have your own?
10:06<Chris82>Gekko: Fine, Found a town is included already
10:06<Gekko[PDA]>link to thread?
10:07<Gekko[PDA]>thx now gtg sleep
10:08<Chris82>night :)
10:10<|Jeroen|>is there an svn for chisIN ? or just patches
10:10<Chris82>a windows binary including language file and a .diff file no svn
10:10<Chris82>feel free to modify anything and upload a .diff to the thread if you want :)
10:11<|Jeroen|>pftt im kinda lazzy :-)
10:11<Chris82>hmmm that's weird I have two games running FW right now since 1950 and they are at 2024, 2021 right now
10:11<Chris82>yesterday I had a game running which first crashed in 1980 already
10:11<Chris82>with permanent FW
10:12<+glx>fast forward
10:12<eekee>O! ok
10:12<Chris82>yeah fast forward
10:13<Chris82>takes around 4-5 hours to pass 100 years in fw
10:13<Chris82>I intended to test how long a game can take, the last test ended in 2113 always crashes in March
10:14<dihedral>Chris82: do you have another machine you could test it on for me?
10:15<Chris82>the script?
10:15<dihedral>aye :-)
10:15<Chris82>well just another Win 2003 server and PHP is not installed on it
10:15<Chris82>that won't help a lot I fear
10:16<Chris82>and I have a 64-bit Win 2008 Server but PHP doesn't run on it yet at all :p
10:16<Chris82>what is the bug in PHP that is causing it?
10:17<Chris82>waaa how often did you refresh the page lol 100 warnings in the event log :p
10:18<dihedral>i was trying to find what was causing the error
10:18<dihedral>commenting out parts of code
10:18<Chris82>right now I get page cannot be displayed
10:18<dihedral>until i reached the function call stream_select()
10:19|-|Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:20<dihedral>i could be mistaken though
10:20<eekee>Chris82: where can I get your diff from? I'd like to try compiling ChrisIN in Linux
10:22<Chris82>thanks :) I can't test it on linux myself
10:22<Chris82>source.list is updated as well as the VC project files (required by copy & paste) so I hope it works properly
10:23|-|Sedontane [~sedontane@] has quit []
10:24<eekee>uh, all the diff files seem to be 404 not found. Looking in this dir:
10:24|-||Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
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10:25[~]dihedral is innocent
10:25|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
10:27<dihedral>Chris82: whats the plan?
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10:32<Chris1982>sorry works now :)
10:32<Chris1982>I didn't have a MIME Type for diff specified
10:32<Chris1982>so only right click -> save as worked
10:32<Chris1982>should work with a left click as well now :)
10:32<eekee>ah ok, ty!
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10:33|-|Chris1982 changed nick to Chris82
10:35<Chris82>dihedral: I just compile a new 5.2.3 x64 php the bug should be fixed in this version
10:39|-||Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
10:39<dihedral>let me know :-)
10:43<dihedral>last 15 mins :-) ohhh
10:43[~]dihedral is happy
10:49<Chris82>still page cannot be displayed
10:49<Chris82>or do I have to change back some stuff first?
10:50<dihedral>looks pretty bad!!
10:51<Chris82>according to the links you sent me the bugs are fixed in the version I just installed
10:53<dihedral>yes - that is what i was hoping for
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10:59<dihedral>Chris82: i have an offer i can make
10:59<dihedral>i can either host it for you
10:59<Chris82>or you install Linux on my server ;) ? *jk*
10:59<dihedral>or build a webservice that will return an xml file with the details for you to process
10:59<dihedral>well, i could also to that :-D
10:59<Chris82>oh that would be very cool indeed
10:59<Chris82>then I can play with xml parsing
10:59<Chris82>I wanted to learn that anyway
11:00<Chris82>maybe I can make a nice xslt style sheet then
11:00<dihedral>i'll get something to work for you then
11:00<dihedral>on my way home now - i'll join you guys in a bit :-)
11:01[~]dihedral is afk
11:01<Chris82>kk I play around with the script in the meantime
11:01<Chris82>I have the site in its own app pool now so it can crash happily without affecting the other sites :D
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11:04<eekee>Chris82: r10383 railed to build in linux. Something about _cur_railtype being declared extern & later static
11:07<Chris82>hmm it worked fine with Visual Studio but I'll see what might cause it
11:07<eekee>ok. Want the full error?
11:07<Chris82>yeah that would help :)
11:07<eekee>/home/ethan/ottd/trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp:36: error: '_cur_railtype' was declared 'extern' and later 'static'
11:07<eekee>/home/ethan/ottd/trunk/src/gui.h:46: error: previous declaration of '_cur_railtype'
11:12<Chris82>ah it's VARDEF RailType _cur_railtype; once and static RailType _cur_railtype; in the other file
11:12<Chris82>I assume that's the problem
11:12<Chris82>did you use gcc?
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11:15<Chris82>that VARDEF is added by copy & paste I'll see if I can fix that
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11:20|-|Frostregen_ changed nick to Frostregen
11:21<@peter1138>VARDEF == bad
11:22|-|Alanin changed nick to alanin
11:22<Chris82>eekee: should compile now on Linux :)
11:22|-|Frostregen__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22<Chris82>I removed the VARDEF and declared the static only in the header file since it's included by rail_gui.cpp anyway
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11:26<Chris82> *hrhr*
11:27<Chris82>and this is even better :D
11:29[~]eekee gets
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11:31<Chris82>narf I hate MS SQL Server, can't they write a nice uninstall routine
11:31<Chris82>there are about 300 registry entries you have to clean manually
11:32|-|glx changed nick to glx|away
11:32<@peter1138>Chris82: if it's only in rail_gui.cpp then there's no need for it in a header...
11:32<Chris82>copy_paste.cpp needs it as well
11:32<Chris82>and I don't know which other whiles
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11:38<+michi_cc>Rubidium: c413d0a2745e6be0b2576eab8612b6ff (also on
11:39[~]dihedral slaps Chris82
11:40[~]Chris82 is bleeding
11:40[~]dihedral puts Chris82 in a bandage
11:41[~]Chris82 wishes it had been a sexy nurse
11:41<hylje>its the internet
11:41<hylje>it might very well be
11:41<hylje>otherwise you rather redefine your sexy
11:42[~]dihedral sure is happy he aint some kind of sexy nurse
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11:43<Chris82>just wasted half an hour uninstalling SQL Server grrrr
11:44<Chris82>it's really one of the crappiest products MS released :D
11:44<Chris82>at least if it comes to uninstall routines
11:46<dihedral>yes it is one of the crapiest producst, next to windows, office, active directory, onenote, virtual pc, windows media player
11:46<Chris82>Virtual PC? it's awesome :D
11:46<Chris82>you can run Linux on Vista with great performance using Virtual PC
11:46<dihedral>vmware is better
11:46<Chris82>tell me one tool with which I can do it the other way round
11:47<Chris82>crappy performance
11:47<dihedral>tis not
11:47<Chris82>I tried to install XP on Debian with Vmware but it was soooo slow
11:48<Chris82>and Virtualization wasn't working
11:48<dihedral>if you have virtual pc running
11:48<dihedral>you could get php to work fine in there :-D
11:48<Chris82>:p I have it on my local PC
11:48<Chris82>not on the webserver
11:48[~]dihedral bitchslaps Chris82
11:49<Chris82>you would dare to hit such a nice lady =O
11:49<dihedral>you aint a lady
11:50<Chris82>who knows :p *jk*
11:50<dihedral>just look like one - rofl
11:50|-|prakti [] has joined #openttd
11:50<dihedral>stop trying to hide the truth with your *jk*
11:50<hylje>how meta
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12:04<Brianetta>Courtesy of Sacro:
12:05<Brianetta>Sacro, dihedral:
12:06<Sacro>Brianetta: they are west country
12:06<Brianetta>It's been about 25 years since I saw it, in my defence
12:09<dihedral>LOL Brianetta
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12:18<stillunknown>peter1138: do you know (precisely) _tunnel_fractcoord_3 contains?
12:18<@peter1138>tile coordinates
12:19<stillunknown>But what coordinates?
12:23<@peter1138>coordinates for entering a tunnel
12:24<@peter1138>hmm, i have a new volume thing.
12:25<@peter1138>waa, i fell off :(
12:26|-||Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:26<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, it does not let me start a game...
12:27<Sacro>peter1138: i'm guessing your playing too now :p
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12:27|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
12:27<@peter1138>level... whatever
12:27[~]Bjarni doesn't slap Sacro
12:27<@Bjarni>he would just enjoy it or something
12:27<Sacro>Bjarni: Cries of super, great, smashing can be heard all over south Yorkshire as people from Sheffield and Rotherham can finally use that fucking speedboat they won on Bullseye
12:28<Sacro>thats not the link ><
12:28[~]Sacro fails it
12:28<@peter1138>ah. orrange is... interesting
12:28<@peter1138>stage 5
12:29<Sacro>peter1138: i'm stuck on 6
12:29|-|freepenguin [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
12:30<@Bjarni>Sacro: isn't that kind of old and square for you to spend time on?
12:30<Sacro>oh fine...
12:31<Eddi|zuHause2>this game does not work!?!oneeleven
12:33<@peter1138>yay, did 6
12:34<@peter1138>did 5 :/
12:34[~]dihedral fell off
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12:38<@Bjarni>reached level 7
12:38<@Bjarni>this isn't that hard after all
12:40<@Bjarni>ok, level 7 needs some thinking
12:40<Sacro>6 took me ages
12:40<Sacro>now i'm stuck on 7
12:40<Sacro>@seen lolman#
12:40<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen lolman#.
12:40<Sacro>@seen lolman
12:40<@DorpsGek>Sacro: lolman was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 22 hours, 20 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <lolman> I was in the middle of compiling when that update went up...damnit >_<
12:41<Sacro>lolman is up to 13
12:41|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
12:41<lolman>Sacro: yes I am ;)
12:41|-|ufoun [~ty@] has joined #openttd
12:41[~]Chris82 Chris|SupCom
12:41<Sacro>8 :D
12:41|-|Chris82 changed nick to Chris|SupCom
12:42|-|Chris|SupCom changed nick to ChrisSupCom
12:42|-|ChrisSupCom changed nick to Chris|SupCom
12:42|-|Chris|SupCom changed nick to ChrisSupCom
12:42<Sacro>stop flooding the channel
12:42<ChrisSupCom>lol wtf
12:43<ChrisSupCom>sorry Azureus seems to have caused quite some latency :D
12:43<hylje>lol, wut?
12:43<lolman>Sacro: 16
12:45<ChrisSupCom>hey this game is fun :D
12:46<ChrisSupCom>no the 10 17 11 game :p
12:46<ChrisSupCom>not enough people in the lobby yet SupCom is great too of course :D
12:47[~]Sacro dives over the edge
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12:49<Sacro>i just fell off again
12:49<@peter1138>8 is nice 'n easy ;)
12:49<ChrisSupCom>hmmm I am only at 5 yet
12:49<@Bjarni>11 so far
12:50<Sacro>yeah, think i'm on 11
12:50[~]lolman has just got to 19
12:50<Sacro>whooo 12
12:50|-|HMage [] has joined #openttd
12:51<lolman>20 :D
12:52<hylje>this is madness
12:52<Sacro>is everyone on it?
12:53<ChrisSupCom>30 :D
12:53<ChrisSupCom>that looks though
12:54<Sacro>yay 13
12:55<skidd13>WTF is going on here?
12:56<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, this is kind of old... -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2154768 Dec 9 2005 /usr/lib/browser-plugins/
12:57<ChrisSupCom> heeelp
12:57<ChrisSupCom>I don't know how to solve this level
12:58<ChrisSupCom>the right bottom x opens the right bottom corner but I can't stand up there
12:58<Sacro>that looks ahead of me
12:58<lolman>Sacro: 22 ;)
12:58<ChrisSupCom>that's level 30
12:59<Sacro>ChrisSupCom: you cheat
12:59<Sacro>59 moves
12:59<Sacro>looks suspect
12:59<ChrisSupCom>I loaded that level :p
13:00<lolman>From a code you found online :)
13:00<Eddi|zuHause2>now where did that damn thing put the new flash player binary to?!?
13:00<ChrisSupCom>no I asked my brother lol
13:01<lolman>You cheat
13:01<ChrisSupCom>I knew that he played that this game before :D
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13:05<ChrisSupCom>ok now I am back to 11 where I've really been
13:05<ChrisSupCom>that's easier :D
13:06|-|Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
13:13<@Bjarni>and now it's starting to get old :s
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm in stage 10 now
13:15<Sacro>19 :D
13:17<Eddi|zuHause2>well, you started way earlier :p
13:17<ChrisSupCom>can some dev give me suggestions where performance improvements could be done best in OpenTTD?
13:17<Sacro>i'm just cleverer
13:17|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
13:18<ChrisSupCom>when I am running fw for 80 years with 7 AIs the game is getting sooooo much slower :D
13:18<hylje>O RLY?
13:18<ChrisSupCom>well when playing normally you don't notice it
13:19<ChrisSupCom>but with fw it's like from 50 days per second to 5 days per second
13:20<hylje>you are still above normal speed
13:20<ChrisSupCom>yup a little
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13:23<@Bjarni><Sacro> i'm just cleverer <-- can you prove this?
13:24<Sacro>Bjarni: what level are you on?
13:24<@Bjarni>I stopped at 18... then it became boring
13:24<Eddi|zuHause2>wow, 11 was quite tricky indeed :)
13:24<@Bjarni>I didn't even try to finish that level... didn't even start on it in fact
13:25<ChrisSupCom> *ggg* :D
13:25<@Bjarni>also I was interrupted twice by the phone :/
13:25<ChrisSupCom>I think I need the limit town growth patch
13:25<@Bjarni>there is a perfectly good buildin png screenshot feature and the result is much better than jpg
13:26<Sacro>Bjarni: why not disable jpg and bmp
13:26<@Bjarni>it was never able to make jpg screenshots. People make screendumps using the OS and we can't prevent that
13:27<Thomas[NL]>ChrisSupCom, it looks like you don't use diagonal rail :/
13:27<ChrisSupCom>7 AIs in that game
13:27<ChrisSupCom>I am only testing long time performance/stability of the game :p
13:27<ChrisSupCom>and I intended to test the results of the patches I added late in the game
13:29<Caemyr>yay, someone watching volleyball? world league?
13:30<ChrisSupCom>hmmm I also don't understand why AI uses steam engines in 2030 =O
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13:32<@Belugas>AI does not mean Awesome Intelligence...
13:33<@Belugas>far from it ;)
13:33<ChrisSupCom>hehe :)
13:39<hylje>AI = A stupid intelligence
13:42<@Belugas>Abherant Intelligence
13:43<hylje>Ambiguous Intelligence
13:45<@Belugas>ambiguous is not really repesentative, if you ask me. It means that it's between two states.
13:45<@Belugas>which is not the case here...
13:45<@Belugas>it is ALWAYS stupid :D
13:45<Prof_Frink>Apresent Intelligence.
13:45|-|ChrisSupCom [] has quit []
13:46<Prof_Frink>Or is it American Intelligence?
13:47<@peter1138>19:15 < ChrisSupCom> can some dev give me suggestions where performance improvements could be done best in OpenTTD?
13:47<@peter1138>oh, he left :o
13:49<skidd13>how far is the work on the opengl stuff for ottd?
13:51<hylje>i was expecting art
13:51<skidd13>big performance improvement?
13:51<@peter1138>er, depends
13:52<skidd13>depends on what?
13:52<hylje>on stuff on screen
13:56<@peter1138>large screen is fast
13:56<@peter1138>but zoomed out is slow
14:01<dihedral>how's the house coming along Belugas
14:03<dihedral>lol - no - did not mean that
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14:14<@Belugas>dihedral : still in renovation, but getting near completion
14:15<@Belugas>at last
14:15<@Belugas>thanks for asking
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14:25<dihedral>i am actually quite curious as to what you are building :-P
14:28<@Belugas>replaced a door with a wall, remove wooden floor with ceramic, placing a big picture on the new wall and putting some collumns around that picture
14:28<@Belugas>nothng fancy :P
14:29<hylje>columns, rows
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14:32<ChrisSupCom>hmmm the default railtype patch doesn't work for me
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14:32|-|ChrisSupCom changed nick to Chris82
14:33<Chris82>I have selected erail but it still opens the normal rail by default on a new game as long as I haven't selected erail myself at least once
14:34<Chris82>ahhh I have to restart the game to make it work
14:34<Chris82>it doesn't work when I am in the game and just load new games
14:36<dihedral>Belugas: you doing all that on your own?
14:37<@Belugas>almost, yes
14:38<Eddi|zuHause2>hey, i'm now to that level that Chris82 linked to ;)
14:38<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: are you *still* playing?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah ;)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause2>is there an end to this?
14:39<Sacro>level 33
14:39<@Belugas>dihedral, mostly, after kid and wife are to sleep, before starting to do some OTTD work
14:40<@Belugas>fun life :S
14:41<dihedral>Belugas: that is quite some impressive going
14:41<@Belugas>thanks. I wish it was already done
14:41<@Belugas>i'm getting good with my hands :)
14:41<dihedral>hope family life is not suffering all too much under that pressure
14:41<dihedral>and any possible bad moods
14:42<@Belugas>naaaa... bad mood is for work@work and some stupid users on the forums ^_^
14:42<dihedral>define stupid :-)
14:43<hylje>dumb but not silly
14:43<Chris82>oh no signal auto complete has the same no money still subtracting bug as diagonal levelling had :D
14:43<dihedral>besids that i was not ratteling on your cage...
14:44<dihedral>Chris82: by now you should know how to fix it :-P
14:45<Chris82>lol yeah I know the fix but I gotta do it later because I just play :p
14:46[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 for playing too much
14:46<dihedral>although i nearly prefer bitchslapping :-P
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14:47<Sacro>how fun
14:49<dihedral>Sacro: which post is it (last or one before last)
14:50<Sacro>dihedral: that one :p
14:50<Sacro>one before last
14:50<dihedral>yeah - figured
14:51<dihedral>i should get a status for my post though
14:51<@peter1138>well, at least dihedral gets it ;)
14:51<dihedral>"defendant of the devs"
14:51<@peter1138>i've seen some people call nightlies a release...
14:51<dihedral>or "anti-dev-deamon hunter"
14:51<dihedral>na - like the first one better
14:51<hylje>daemon hunter
14:52<hylje>is this warhammer on rails?
14:52<dihedral>peter1138: i think it would be funny to compile a nightly and change the version number to 0.6.0 or something
14:52<dihedral>just seeing all the posts that arise when this shows in the ms
14:53<dihedral>that would be sooo amusing
14:53<dihedral>no hylje too obvious
14:53<hylje>you can do that yourself dihedral
14:53<hylje>if you truly want to screw with the people on tt-forums
14:53<dihedral>people are so waiting for any reference to 0.6 to appear anywhere
14:54<dihedral>even if it were 0.6-RC1 or something
14:54<hylje>just take the latest trunk and call that "Unofficial 0.6.0" and leak it
14:54<elmz>do a java, go directly to v 6.0 or something :P
14:54<hylje>elmz: 1.5 -> 5.0
14:54<Prof_Frink>dihedral: It's a shame it's June
14:54<elmz>I know
14:54<dihedral>Prof_Frink: why is that
14:54<Prof_Frink>It's a long time till April, fool
14:55<elmz>but still, its just called 5.0, all code, files, API and everything stil says 1.5 (or 1.6 now...)
14:55[~]dihedral gives Prof_Frink a pinch and a punch for the first of the month
14:55<Prof_Frink>elmz: Or, do a 'buntu and have the first release as 4.10
14:56<dihedral>why dont you release a 0.6-Preview version :-P
14:56<dihedral>just to bump it up a nodge
14:57<dihedral>basically a nightly build announced in the forums
14:57<Prof_Frink>Do a ..0.05microgallons release!
14:58<Chris82>I will simply compile my next in as UltraTTD-1.0 :D
14:58<dihedral>as if that just made a lot of sense
14:58<dihedral>a "O"ltraTTD
15:00<dihedral>Prof_Frink: it would not have to go down as an aprils fool joke
15:00<dihedral>it couls simple be a RTFF (forum)
15:01<dihedral>talking of RTFM
15:01<dihedral>best practical have a Request Tracker system
15:01<dihedral>with a plugin:
15:01<Prof_Frink>A better april fools would be (fake) google ads on the newspapers
15:02<dihedral>google adds in the end of game new papper screen :-D
15:02<dihedral>and then get google to sponsor the project :-D
15:02<Prof_Frink>Well, I was thinking on all the newspaper messages
15:03<Prof_Frink>but "targetted" at evens in-game
15:03<dihedral>but that is a little more work than changing the version number the game announces itself as
15:03<Prof_Frink>"Buy coal wagons on eBay now!"
15:04<dihedral>1 $ - delivery cost 10.000$
15:04<dihedral>haha scam - you dont get anything and i get to keep all your money
15:05<Chris82>speaking of ebay
15:05<Eddi|zuHause2>yay, i'm done :)
15:05<Chris82>TTDLX is worth a lot of money :D
15:05<Prof_Frink>Well, to do it properly would be hard, but mocking up some screenshots and getting the devs to make an official-looking announcement wouldn't be
15:05<Chris82>7,89 EUR + shipping, you don't get that much for most games that are just 2 years old
15:05<dihedral>i used to have that
15:05<@peter1138>i got it for £2.50, along with RCT1 & RRT2
15:06<dihedral>who says it's 2 years old?
15:06<dihedral>i downloaded the themesong and put it on my mobile as ringtone
15:07<Chris82>not TTDLX
15:07<Sacro> HAHAHAHA
15:07<Sacro>"I am only selling you the PDF that links you to these games. These games are all free ware, and legal to download from thier proper websites. "
15:07<Chris82>but when I sell games on eBay I usually don't get more than 5 EUR and those games are usually newer than TTDLX :p
15:07<Sacro>shall i report him
15:07<Sacro>cos OpenTTD isn't freeware
15:07<Prof_Frink>Sacro: *boggle*
15:07<Sacro>oh and he states TTD works on XP
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15:08<Chris82>Moneyback Garuntee if the games don't work!
15:08<boekabart>comes with "Moneyback Garuntee"
15:08<Chris82>well report him but those guys at ebay are so slow, when they reply to my reports the auctions are usually long over
15:08<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Those screenshots ain't TTD
15:09<boekabart>canals button!
15:09<Sacro>Prof_Frink: OTTD PPC
15:09<boekabart>I think so too
15:09<Sacro>only ones to have the hacked low res
15:10<Sacro>err... no
15:10<Prof_Frink>But still, it's wallet darwinism, surely
15:10<Sacro>item was designed to run on 9x
15:10<Eddi|zuHause2><Prof_Frink> It's a long time till April, fool <- the weather is acting like it's april :)
15:10[~]Chris82 nods
15:10<Chris82>rain, sun, rain, sun the last few days
15:10<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: No, the weather is acting like it's wimbledon week
15:11<unyer>Hallo all, can you help me? I'm new to OpenTTD a I would like to ask you if it's possible to renew all old road vehicles in few steps not one by one send to depo, sold and buy new.
15:11<Smoovious>unyer... there is the autoreplace function... settings are in the patches menu, under vehicles
15:11<Prof_Frink>unyer: yes, enable auto renewal
15:12<Smoovious>enable auto-replace... set how many months before or after the 'old' date to start replacing
15:12<Smoovious>and the minimum amount of money to keep on-hand
15:13<Eddi|zuHause2>unyer: open the vehicle list, there's a "manage list" dropdown, choose autoreplace
15:13<dihedral>Sacro: look at the ttd images names of that ebay auction
15:13<unyer>thank you, that was very fast, so cu, I go to play
15:13<dihedral>they are called 1openttd.gif and 2openttd.gif
15:14<Sacro>dihedral: .gif? ... fool
15:15<Chris82>well gif is as outdated as the games are :D
15:16<Chris82>he's just sticking to the theme :D
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15:21<Caemyr>Sacro: wtf are you talking about?
15:21<Sacro>Caemyr: the gp2x guy doesn't release source
15:21<Sacro>why does XP not have awk
15:23<@peter1138>it's XP
15:23<@Bjarni>it's an MS product
15:23<Sacro>but i want to use awk D:
15:23<@Bjarni>stop asking why it can't do common stuff :P
15:23<Sacro>actually, dir /b works
15:23<@Bjarni><Sacro> but i want to use awk D: <-- easy solution: get an OS that can do common stuff
15:24<Sacro>Bjarni: i have linux and OSX on here
15:24<@Bjarni>then you just need to reboot or start VMware
15:24<dihedral>there are enough tools to make windows half way descent
15:25<dihedral>wget vim ls gawk
15:25<dihedral>there is even a linux service one could install :-D
15:25<dihedral>very amusing - have it at work
15:26<dihedral>got debian to work in that strange service
15:27<@peter1138>grrrrr, my firefox keeps crashing on downloads :(
15:28<Chris82>install downThemAll :)
15:28<Chris82>works pretty good
15:29<boekabart>peter1138: wget ?
15:29<@peter1138>if i could see the actual url...
15:31<boekabart>what would help yes
15:33<stillunknown>Am i correct in assuming that MP_STATION, MP_RAILWAY and MP_TUNNELBRIDGE have trackbits?
15:35<stillunknown>MP_STATION does not?
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15:35<boekabart>neither does MP_TUNNELBRIDGE
15:35<boekabart>it has direction only
15:36<boekabart>iirc, and i was looking at it today :)
15:36<stillunknown>I thought MP_TUNNELBRIDGE had TRACK_BIT_WORMHOLE?
15:37<boekabart>ah, dunno about that
15:38<stillunknown>peter1138: Do you know that?
15:39<@peter1138>it doesn't
15:39<@peter1138>that's a flag on a vehicle
15:39<@peter1138>not on a tile
15:42<dihedral>have we actually tried calling chris sawyer's agency to find out who currently hold the copyright?
15:42<Chris82>Chris Sawyer holds the copyright of course
15:43<Prof_Frink>dihedral: eis_os had a look at it
15:43<dihedral>net nessesarily
15:43<Chris82>even when somebody else publishes the game, the original author always holds the copyright
15:43<Prof_Frink>I think it got traced to Atari
15:43<dihedral>Chris82: this is not nessesarily the case
15:43<Chris82>like Britney Spears has the copyright for all her songs and not EMI or whoever publishes her stuff
15:43<Chris82>in German copyright law it is
15:43<Prof_Frink>But I may be mistaken
15:43<dihedral>no it is not
15:43<dihedral>Chris82: if you are contracted to a company to develop something
15:44<dihedral>i.e. IBM
15:44<dihedral>it is most likely that the copyright is owned by the company
15:44<dihedral>esp. in germany that is the case
15:44<Chris82>iirc they can only have a trademark or something, but the original author always has the last word on it
15:45<Chris82>like Bill Gates could leave Microsoft and make another company that publishes DOS
15:45<dihedral>the "origianl author" is in many cases the company
15:45<Chris82>he may just not call it Microsoft DOS because Microsoft is a trademark
15:45<Chris82>yeah that's true
15:45<dihedral>MSDOS is a hack of something that used to be called QDOS
15:46<Chris82>I know, but he bought it
15:46<dihedral>depending on the contract
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15:46<dihedral>Chris Sawyer may not nessesarily be the one holding the copyright
15:47<@peter1138>21:43 < dihedral> the "origianl author" is in many cases the company
15:47<dihedral>badly put - i'll agree with that one
15:47<@peter1138>if the original author sold the rights, he... has no rights
15:48<Chris82>yeah but many authors, especially photographers don't sell their rights on the pictures
15:48<dihedral>if you are contracted to a company as a developer and are asked to develop something or are even only employed for a certain contrackt
15:48<Chris82>they just licence them to companies like the companies licence them to the users
15:48<Chris82>it's the same way of business as with computers, Intels builds the CPUs, the OEMs buy them or B2B Resellers and then the shops get them where we can buy them
15:48<Chris82>still the copyright is by Intel
15:48<dihedral>then you can be sure that you will not end up with the copyright :-)
15:49<Chris82>yeah I agree with that
15:49<Chris82>ok so I was misunderstandable, what I was saying is that the original author is usually the copyright holder
15:49<Chris82>and in seldom cases where he completely sells his rights he looses the copyright of course
15:49<Chris82>but licencing a software or whatever to a company doesn't mean selling the copyright
15:50<dihedral>i have no copyright whatsoever of stuff i develop at work
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15:50<Chris82>well don't think so, according to Wiki e.g. the employee of an original authro (which can also be a company) can very well have the copyright to something
15:51<Chris82>so when you leave the company you can take source code you have created yourself without the help of others to do your own business, unless in your working contract you state that all your work is owned by the company
15:51<Prof_Frink>Chris82: I'd rank terms of employment above wikipedia for such research
15:51<Chris82>which is in most contracts of course, but not in al
15:51<@Belugas>don't know about you, but here, if i'm paid to developp something, what i do is owned by the one who pays me for that work
15:52<dihedral>i have been developing for various web appliactions for 4 different companies/organizations
15:52<Chris82>well I am paid for making websites and website designs, I still own the copyright to the design
15:52<dihedral>during the past 4 years
15:52<Chris82>but that's because I do it as a "freelancer"
15:52<@Belugas>if you specify it on your contract, maybe. otherwise, it is contestable
15:53<dihedral>that is something slithly different
15:53<Chris82>when you're contracted your contract usually has clauses like you may not take the work created at the company outside etc.
15:53<Chris82>I get what you mean
15:53<Chris82>well I always write (c) by me on my website designs
15:53<dihedral>it is enough to state: the company owns all developt blah blupp
15:53<Chris82>actually design (c) by me
15:54<Chris82>yup that's right dihedral
15:54<Chris82>but not all contracts have such terms
15:54<dihedral>hgehe - sofare it's always been on my contract :-(
15:54<Chris82>otherwise there would be no individuals who hold copyrights anymore or at least not many
15:55<dihedral>anyhow - getting back to the main point
15:55<Chris82>like with Civilization for example
15:55<Chris82>the copyright holder is Sid Meyer
15:55<dihedral>it is not clear if chris holds the copyright
15:55<Chris82>and not Microprose, Firaxis Games, Take 2 Interactive or whoever publishes or programs the game
15:55<dihedral>and i just though that contacting his agency might be a nice way to go abou this thing
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15:56<Chris82> just look on his page
15:56<dihedral>well - the step would be to find out who could make that flipping thing open source :-)
15:56<Chris82>I am 99,9% sure that he holds the copyrights
15:56<Chris82>Microprose is only the publisher of his game
15:57<dihedral>Belugas: what do you think - i give the agency a call?
15:58<Chris82>which agency?
15:58<Chris82>Microprose doesn't exist anymore and Chris Sawyer is an individual programmer not working for a company
15:58<Chris82>ah you mean Marjacq?
15:59<dihedral>his agency :-)
15:59<boekabart>heh, 3 of four sites he lists... don't work
15:59<dihedral>last update was 2005
15:59<Chris82>whoa Roller Coaster Tycoon is written in Assembler code =O hs
15:59<Chris82>no wonder that game is so damn fast
16:00<Chris82>at least he registered his domain until 2012 :D
16:00<@Belugas>dihedral : yeah good idea. That may answer why Atari does not give any signs of life...
16:01<Chris82>didn't Atari just release some heavy loaded gaming PCs ?
16:02<dihedral>i only know that atari does not respond to our emails
16:02<dihedral>does not matter who you contact
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16:02<Sionide>"for example the station limit cannot be increased without extensive work on other parts of the game to handle larger station pointers. Doing any of this would require a lot of work, and would make saved games completely incompatible with existing versions."
16:02<dihedral>kirk prindle, senior director of Atari, slow coatch
16:02<dihedral>that was for google :-)
16:02<Sionide>from chris sawyer's FAQ
16:03<Sionide>open source wins :)
16:04<dihedral>even nicer:
16:04<dihedral>No, neither the DOS version nor the Win95 version will run under Windows 2000 or XP. The changes required for Transport Tycoon Deluxe Win95 to run under Windows 2000/XP are probably minimal, but it's unlikely it will ever be updated unless the time and costs can be justified by potential sales and the willingness of the publisher to market an updated version.
16:04<Sionide>i can't believe he's so willing to just let the game die
16:04<Sionide>i wonder if he's ever tried ottd
16:04<boekabart>welll, but what he writes basically implies that's it's ok to try to :)
16:05<boekabart>(to change stuff by recompiling)
16:05<dihedral>No! All versions of Transport Tycoon are protected by copyright, and are the subject of a publication agreement with Microprose, which means the only legal way to obtain the game (and support the developer) is to purchase the full boxed product
16:06<SpComb>there's one online store selling a version of TTD that works on XP, it shows up often in the google ads
16:06<dihedral>this is quite cute though
16:07<Sionide>even better
16:08<mikk36>i can't send patch max_trains command over rcon
16:08<mikk36>rcon password patch max_trains 1000 gives me just instructions
16:09<Chris82>rcon password "patch max_trains 1000"
16:09<Chris82>don't forget the " "
16:09<mikk36>damn :P
16:09<Chris82>with pause and unpause it works without " "
16:09<Chris82>but everything that has more than one operand you need the "
16:09<dihedral>it also works without the second "
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16:09<Chris82>ah true
16:09<dihedral>i.e. rcon <pass> "patch foo 100
16:09<Chris82>just noticed that before too :p
16:10<Chris82>I dunno if that is intended behaviour tho
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16:12<@Belugas>going home
16:12<@Belugas>have a nice evening/weekend
16:13<Chris82>bye :) u 2
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16:15<Sacro>"Use patch in any way except including in original/modified form into official ottd. That was all that i wanted. Thank you. Good bye."
16:15<Sacro>isn't that like saying 1||0 ?
16:16<dihedral>enjoy Belugas
16:17<dihedral>Sacro: who and what are you refering to?
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16:18<Sacro>dihedral: ev
16:19<XeryusTC>ev is a whiny biatch
16:19<XeryusTC>he is like "hey, they dont include my patch, macros rule"
16:20<XeryusTC>like "functions have the tendency to be type save"
16:20<XeryusTC>he considers type saveness to be a bad thing :s
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16:26<dihedral>XeryusTC: why not bitch about ev when ev is here?
16:26<dihedral>perhaps you guys can get your own room too :-D
16:26<XeryusTC>because he isnt :P
16:26<dihedral>aww - get a room :-P
16:27<Chris82>does vehicle order sharing also work for timetables?
16:27<XeryusTC>and it seems like he is never comming back :P
16:27<XeryusTC>Chris82: yes
16:27<XeryusTC>shared vehicles also share timetables
16:27<dihedral>!seen ev
16:27<_42_>dihedral, Ev (~chatzilla@ was last seen quitting #openttd 2 days 9 hours 35 minutes ago (27.06. 11:51) stating "Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]" after spending 1 hour 1 minute there.
16:32<Chris82>clicking reset late counter should be shared too imho
16:35<dihedral>once the autofill button is clicked you cannnot stop it :-)
16:36<Chris82>hmmm ok I think timetables isn't really working as I want it to
16:36<Chris82>when they run early they just run early and they go as they wouldn't have timetables
16:36<Chris82>what I wanted tho is that I intentionally set a longer time than they need and then they stay loading at a station until they are on time again
16:36<Chris82>but that doesn't seem to work
16:37<dihedral>i shall go do bed ladies
16:37[~]dihedral waves
16:37[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 before going to bed :-)
16:38<dihedral>i shall get something to work for you Chris82 but i will probably not be around all day tomorrow
16:38<Chris82>no problem I have to learn for exams anyway
16:38<dihedral>hehe :-P
16:39<dihedral>good luck
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17:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10388 /trunk/src/misc/blob.hpp: -Cleanup: coding style (CBlobT & CBlobBaseSimple), removed CStrA
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17:17[~]Touqen has been in england for the past week.
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17:19[~]Touqen is actually still in england
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause2>my condolences :p
17:33<Touqen>it hasn't been that bad
17:33<Touqen>the people that i've been interacting with have been quite nice
17:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10389 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: CStrA, CStrCiA, CStrW, CStrCiW - case sensitive/insensitive ANSI/UNICODE string classes that support formatted (sprintf like) output.
17:34<Touqen>I'm hanging out in Cheshire near manchester.
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>err... what kind of string has to be case sensitive?
17:37|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
17:37<Touqen>It makes defining comparision operators easier to define.
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>yes. anything that is case sensitive means the programmer was too lazy...
17:38<Eddi|zuHause2>but i mean ottd-related
17:39[~]Touqen shrugs
17:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10390 /trunk/src/misc/array.hpp: -Fix: constness
17:41<KUDr>[00:36:18] <Eddi|zuHause2> err... what kind of string has to be case sensitive? << i.e. linux file names are case sensitive
17:42<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, ok... but that is a prime example for my last statement :)
17:44<KUDr>programing languages are also case sensitive
17:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i know, and i hate it
17:45<KUDr>you can find many other examples
17:45<KUDr>yoes but we need to follow what is already made by others
17:45<eekee>urls for apache web servers (& maybe others) on linux file systems
17:46<Eddi|zuHause2>there are no URLs in OTTD, though :p
17:46<KUDr>we can add some :)
17:47<Sionide>ohh.. url handling ?
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17:47<Eddi|zuHause2>funny, just yesterday it was discussed that opening a browser from ottd creates too many unnecessary dependencies ;)
17:48<Sionide>Eddi|zuHause2, just right-click -> copy link, would be good enough for me
17:48<Sionide>then it's just focus->firefox, ctrl+t, ctrl+v, enter
17:48<Eddi|zuHause2>i believe linking to some kind of clipboard is even worse :p
17:49<eekee>oh ah, yeah
17:50<KUDr>we already handle clipboards
17:50<Eddi|zuHause2>yes? how?
17:50<KUDr>you can paste to the game console
17:50<KUDr>or edit boxes
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17:52<KUDr>i dunno how on linux
17:52<KUDr>try it on windows
17:52<eekee>we do now? We didn't seem to a few revisions ago (linux)
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17:52<KUDr>maybe linux not
17:52<Eddi|zuHause2>that is exactly what i mean...
17:53<KUDr>but if done on one os, it can be easily supported on others
17:53<eekee>Plain-text-only clipboard shouldn't be hard, I think.
17:53<KUDr>yes it is simple on all systems
17:53<Eddi|zuHause2>well, the windows clipboard is a pretty deep kernel feature
17:53<KUDr>only you must know HOW
17:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you cannot expect such a standardised behaviour on linux
17:54<eekee>KUDr: only if you want to impose the Windows keybindings on everyone :D
17:54<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: It's pretty standardised. Works via X properties
17:54<KUDr>what it does mean?
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17:56<eekee>ctrl-c... it's cmd-c on a Mac, and most linux programs simply let you selct with the left button & paste the sellection with the middle
17:56<Eddi|zuHause2>personally, i hate how unstandardised things in linux are... e.g. copy-pasting, some apps allow Ctrl/Shift-Ins only, others allow Ctrl-C/V only, rarely any support both...
17:56<valhallasw>hurray \o/
17:56<valhallasw>I've stucked a tram into a position it cannot be removed from
17:56<valhallasw>tram rails to transmitter
17:56<eekee>trams need turn-around
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>lmao :p
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>need magic bulldozer
17:57<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: I hate how the attempts at standardisation mostly force you into an immitation-Windows way of working that I've never got on with
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>but you can probably do the same at the edge of the map
17:58<eekee>nah, can't raise land to the edge of the map
17:58<Eddi|zuHause2>no, but you can build trams to the edge (except the last pseudo-water tile)
17:59<eekee>oh like that, yeah
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17:59<eekee>I will continue to maintain that trams need a turn-around button, and that it wouldn't be any more unrealistic than the turnaround button on trains
18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, stuck trams should be able to be force-reversed
18:06<Chris82>hmmm my game is again not on the master server although we are playing for hours already
18:06<Chris82>it's not even in the offline server list
18:06<Chris82>although when I start OpenTTD I see it in the multiplayer list, how is that possible
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18:09<Chris82>also another question why is Signal Auto Complete not in trunk? bad coding style?
18:09<Chris82>because the patch is working perfectly :D it rox my sox :D
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18:17<eekee>Chris82: gives a 404 whether I left-click or right-click...
18:17<Sionide>that domain cracks me up
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18:21<Chris82>eekee: same problem as before, I forgot the mime-type :p
18:21<Chris82>will fix it right away just a few secs
18:23<Chris82>k works now :)
18:24<Chris82>right click save as only works with IE when no MIME Type is specified
18:24<Chris82>and probably also with Firefox and Opera but definitely not with Konqueror and alike
18:24[~]Prof_Frink throws wget at eekee
18:25[~]eekee knows wget well, is just lazy =^_^= and was using firefox
18:25<Prof_Frink>Yeah, but wget is but a c-a, c-a away
18:25<eekee>oh got it, ty!
18:25<eekee>Prof_Frink: hehe :D
18:28<eekee>Chris82: ok it's working in Linux, & looking cool ^^
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18:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10391 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: debug support - structured dump of variables/classes/structures (with anti-recursion repository) into string
18:30<Chris82>cool :)
18:31<Chris82>I just play with my bro on a server with daylength 3 :D
18:31<Chris82>it's so much more fun when time doesn't fly by so quickly
18:31<Chris82>and you don't have to replace your waggons every 10 minutes :D (using DB XL)
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, daylength is great
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>but 32 is a little over the top most of the time :)
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is to decide what should be day based and what should be realtime/tick based
18:33<Prof_Frink>Chris82: It's "wagons" (Sorry, it's another mispelling that annoys me)
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>it's "Waggong" or "Wagen" in german
18:34<Chris82>wtf ??
18:34<Chris82>you surely mean Waggon?
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>well... yes
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>that one slipped through, sorry :)
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>too many 'g's in that sentence :)
18:34<Chris82> < and it's spelled with two g in English too
18:35<Chris82>one g is correct too tho
18:36<Chris82>Eddi: I made the daypatch to handle most by day ticks so things that don't need to be influenced by the length of a day like desync checks don't use DaylengthMultiplier() but rather DAY_TICKS
18:36<Chris82>and yeah 30 is really much :D I have never played with more than 10 myself
18:37<Chris82>with 30 one game year takes almost 7 hours *g*
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, i have only finished 6 years in over 6 months now :p
18:38[~]eekee sleeps
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>-rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 1811786 28. Okt 2006 Johannes Transporte, 6. Feb 1920.sav
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>-rw-r--r-- 1 johannes users 2230096 25. Jun 23:39 Johannes Transporte, 13. Nov 1925.sav
18:39<Chris82>good night
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>it's more than 6 months :)
18:39<Chris82>with or w/o daypatch?
18:39<eekee>night o/
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>with x32 daylength
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't play all the time :)
18:41<Chris82>but good to see that no bugs occur with such high industry production :D
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>can i assume that you did not update the PBS patch for your IN?
18:44<Chris82>je ne sais pas what that is
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>the thing that annoyed me the most with the daylength patch was, that it multiplied the yearly running costs, instead of dividing the per-day running costs
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>Path Based Signalling
18:44<Chris82>well it depends wheter you have daylength affects economy enabled or not
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>that is THE feature that made me use the MiniIN
18:44<Chris82>hmm what does path based signalling do?
18:45<Chris82>I only have Signal GUI and Auto Complete in the IN
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>allows multiple trains per signal blocks
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>as long as their paths do not cross
18:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10392 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Add [YAPF]: added structured dump support into some essential YAPF classes (node-list, nodes, keys, etc.) and CArrayT
18:45<Chris82>hmmm doesn't that cause a huge amount of collision calc overhead?
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>you only need to check that your trackbit is not reserved when passing a signal
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>it's a rather cheap check
18:47<Chris82>is there a .diff file for the patch?
18:47<Chris82>I could have a look at it as to wether it will be possible for me to update it for current trunk
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>try branches/PBS
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>but it is extremely old
18:48<Chris82>well that doesn't necessarily mean it's a problem
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>and it was rejected because of bugs
18:48<Chris82>I have one patch update from around r1500 in the IN :D
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, but lots of things have changed, e.g. the bridges
18:48<Chris82>hmmm yeah
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>and YAPF
18:48<Chris82>apropo changed bridges
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>there are several patches related to this in the miniin, you could check the log
18:49<Chris82>there are lots and lots of clipping errors with bridges over diagonal railway
18:49<Chris82>although the usefulness of the feature overweighs of course
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>PBS allows for junctions like this to work:,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png
18:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10393 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_node_rail.hpp: -Fix [YAPF]: Trackdir needs 4 bits to store (not 3). The cached segment key didn't use the highest trackdir bit. It could confuse YAPF on bi-directional track segments.
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18:52<Chris82>hmmm but junctions like this should work anyway?
18:52<Chris82>you should see what kind of crazy junction weirdness my brother builds in games :D
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, without PBS it would be blocking as hell
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>i have seen 5 trains passing this signal block simultaneously
18:53<Chris82>hmmm ok signal blocking might be possible
18:54<Chris82>I thought you meant the pathfinding couldn't handle i
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>this snapshot was taken in a rather quiet moment
18:54<Chris82>I will test build something like that :D
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>PBS would not affect pathfinding
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18:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10394 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp:
18:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [YAPF]: MP desync caused by incorrect last-red-signal penalties applied
18:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: when cached segment was reused. Players that connected more recently (didn't
18:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: have these segments cached yet) calculated those penalties correctly. This
18:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: caused different YAPF results.
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>the main problem with the old PBS are, that it often crashes trains, especially when they reverse automatically, two way segments will lock up (especially stations) with both trains waiting outside, and it requires NPF (major ressource issue)
18:57<KUDr>ok, guys. You can play MP without desyncs
18:58<KUDr>I am going home. Finally!
18:58<Chris82>thx :)
18:58<Chris82>good night
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19:00<Eddi|zuHause>the major advantages of PBS are realistic branch lines (,%2020.%20Dec%201923.png), efficient head stations and non-blocking single-track segments
19:02|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>,%201.%20Sep%201924.png and,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png make heavy use of PBS, too ;)
19:03<Chris82>wow I don't understand anything in these junctions lol
19:04<Chris82>and is this effective?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, pretty much...
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>that last picture has some blocking situations, because the signal segments are too short for the trains
19:05<Chris82>this patch seems too complicated tho for me to renew the code
19:05<KUDr>heh air-lift delayed
19:06<KUDr>i am back
19:06<Chris82>air-lift? lol :p
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19:07<KUDr>from Italy to Germany with stop at Czech
19:08<KUDr>they are still loading it
19:09<Chris82>they even fly this late at night?
19:11<KUDr>mainly at night
19:11<KUDr>i dunno why
19:11<Chris82>1 smithjonat 566,19 MB 0,27 KB/s 16.384,00 PB 7,79 TB/s <<< errm these stats must be wrong
19:11<Chris82>or I want that internet connection :D:D
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>lmao :)
19:13<Chris82>16.3 PB I wonder where he takes the storage capacy for that
19:13<Chris82>KUDr: Thanks for updating the Visual Studio files as well btw ;)
19:13<Chris82>some other devs often forget it
19:14<KUDr>i work with VC8 :)
19:14<KUDr>now i found some compilation problems in g++
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>Chris82: especially within 3 weeks :p
19:14<KUDr>that must be fixed asap
19:15<Chris82>Eddi: 3 weeks? Do you know which site I pasted this from :p cuz I didn't paste the 3 weeks :D
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>hehe ;)
19:16<Chris82>I am Chrissicom on that page :p
19:16<Chris82>I lost my Top 10 Uploader rank today :(
19:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10395 /trunk/src/ (misc/dbg_helpers.cpp misc/dbg_helpers.h yapf/yapf.hpp): -Fix [YAPF]: missing include + some signed/unsigned comparison warnings
19:17|-|XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.]
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>"16,58 GB / Tag" i don't have that in a month...
19:18<KUDr>now it should compile on both VC and g++
19:18<mikk36>does anyone have a clue about where to copy jar/jad files to install them onto SE w810i ?
19:18<mikk36>i'm not very fond of downloading them off the net for money (downloading costs)
19:18<Chris82>hmmm depends on wether it is an app or a game?
19:19<mikk36>for either :)
19:19<mikk36>i've got the phone connected with usb
19:19<Chris82>when you connect to your w810i (I have the one too) with the USB cable you'll see a folder named games etc. on the phone memory
19:19<Chris82>so you should just copy the file in the appropriate dir and the apps should be loadable if they are mobile apps
19:19<Chris82>that* one
19:19<mikk36>in which drive/folder ?
19:20<Chris82>do you use Linux?
19:20<Gekkko`>I do.
19:20<Chris82>then the phone drive is auto-mounted and should also auto-start if you haven't disabled auto-start
19:20<mikk36>i've got 2 drives, PHONE and PHONE CARD
19:20<Chris82>the dir should be right in the root
19:20<mikk36>so i guess PHONE ?
19:20<Chris82>phone card is the Memory Card
19:21<Chris82>you can have apps on both of them
19:21<mikk36>but i don't see any "games" nor "programs" folders
19:21<Chris82>Phone memory is very limited but a lot faster afaik
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19:21<Chris82>hmmm I have a games folder right in the root of the memory card
19:21<Gekkko`>Mobile solutions all suck besides PDAs.
19:21<mikk36>k, i'll try to put it there then
19:21<Gekkko`>just make a new folder.
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>Chris82: as for the site, you had a clue in a screenshot earlier today :)
19:21<Chris82>I have installed the original Sony Ericcson software, are you using a provider customized software?
19:21<mikk36>do i need to create a subdir for each program/game ?
19:22<mikk36>i'm not using any
19:22<mikk36>win auto-recognized the 2 drives
19:22<Chris82>I mean on the phone itself
19:22<Chris82>SymbianOS is running on it
19:22<Gekkko`>Format PHONE lol.
19:22<Chris82>but most providers customize it
19:22<mikk36>it's original
19:22<Gekkko`>SymbianOS isn't very nice.
19:22<Chris82>I removed it and flashed the original SE software
19:22<Chris82>hmmmm wait let me quickly check
19:22<mikk36>i don't live in an area, where providers customize them
19:23<Chris82>hmmm there must be definitely a folder Games somwhere on your Memory Card
19:23<Chris82>there are 2 games on the phone by default they must be stored there
19:23<mikk36>well, there aint :P
19:23<mikk36>sec :P
19:23<Chris82>do you have QuadraPop on the phone?
19:24<Chris82>or JCDoesTexas?
19:24<mikk36>that one yes
19:24<Gekkko`>I smell a knockoff.
19:24|-|Gekkko` changed nick to Gekko
19:24<mikk36>works fine
19:24<Chris82>those are the default games which SE has on the phone
19:24<mikk36>i only got the latter one
19:24<Chris82>and they are stored in MEMORY CARD\GAMES on my phone :D
19:24<Gekko>doesn't the \ sicken you
19:24<Gekko>it should be /
19:24<Gekko>the entire world goes forwards
19:25<Gekko>only MS goes back.
19:25<Gekko>what's with everyone wanting an iPhone?
19:25<Chris82>\ I lean backwards and I am relaxed / you lean over from too much beer and vomit *gg*
19:25<Gekko>they aren't anything special
19:25<Chris82>iPhone sux just like anything i from Apple :D
19:25<Gekko>\ makes me think of arabic right-to-left directories
19:26<Chris82>iPods are the worst invention ever
19:26<Gekko>Chris82: the original iPod nano was good
19:26<Chris82>well not for the inventer obviously ($$$)
19:26<Gekko>and Rockbox.
19:26<Chris82>I dunno what I need an iPod for, I paid 1 EUR for my w810i and it works as well like an MP3 Player and has 1 GB of storage, that's plenty enough
19:27<Chris82>an iPod costs what? 300 bucks? and it only plays music
19:27<Gekko>Chris82: I just said, iPodLinux
19:27<mikk36>that's my folder tree
19:27<Gekko>plus I also have a Palm TX
19:27<Gekko>does more than your phone does
19:27<Chris82>what's in other?
19:27<Chris82>well costs more too
19:27<mikk36>also costs more ?
19:28<Chris82>the w810i has a nice calendar, you can write down notes, huge sms storage, mp3 player with good sound... and of course phone capabilities :D
19:28<Chris82>all that for 1 EUR
19:28<mikk36>i paid only ~130€ for it
19:28<Chris82>and others pay 200+ EUR for a Palm to get a bigger calendar or 200+ EUR to get an iPod
19:28<Gekko>Awesome picture:
19:28<Chris82>that's ridiculous if you ask me :D
19:29<Chris82>130 EUR is the retail price yeah, I got it as a gift with my contract
19:29<mikk36>retail price ?
19:29<mikk36>here the retail is 260 o.O
19:29<mikk36>if i remember correctly
19:29<mikk36>i'll check
19:29<Chris82>192 EUR in Germany, and I bet it's a lot cheaper in the US
19:30<Chris82>130 was a bit cheap guess sorry :p
19:30<mikk36>i bought it used
19:30<mikk36>and i live in estonia
19:30<mikk36>not in the us :P
19:30<Gekko>Chris82: your phone can't play OpenTTD
19:30<Gekko>My PDA can.
19:31<Gekko>Therefore your entire argument is redundant.
19:31<mikk36>Chris82, where is my game then ?
19:31<Chris82>did you look in other?
19:32<Chris82>it's definitely stored somewhere in phone or card memory and it's one of the "protected" non removable files
19:32<Chris82>can't check how the file is called right now don't have the USB cable here
19:32<Gekko>im about to reinstall iPodLinux with the newest version
19:33<Gekko>and sell my iPod on ebay
19:33<mikk36>Chris82, i don't see any hidden folders there
19:33<mikk36>i've enabled showing everything
19:34<Chris82>there are no hidden folders anyway
19:34<Chris82>if the game is on your phone there must also be a file somewhere for the game :p
19:34<Chris82>search for texas on both memories
19:34<Chris82>does it find anything?
19:34<mikk36>but every folder i look into is empty
19:34<Chris82>even pictures?
19:34<mikk36>´besides the first one
19:34<Chris82>there should be at least be the default pics which can't be deleted
19:34<mikk36>pictures is fine
19:35<mikk36>i see the photos
19:35<mikk36>but nothing else
19:35<Chris82>where did you buy your phone?
19:35<mikk36>hand to hand
19:35<mikk36>not from sho
19:36<mikk36>ahh i'll install one prog from the net and see if creates any folders
19:37<Chris82>it shouldn't create any folder
19:37<Chris82>it should be stored in games or apps
19:37<Chris82>I don't understand why you don't have these folders when you have the original SE software
19:37|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38<mikk36>on the phone - original, on win - nothing
19:38<Chris82>let me find my USB cable
19:39<mikk36>91KB aint that much :)
19:39<mikk36>for opera mini
19:40<Chris82>Opera Mini isn't working well for me :(
19:40<Chris82>although it should work on this phone
19:40<Chris82>try \system\downloads on the PHONE
19:41<Chris82>and if that doesn't work try \other
19:42<Chris82>the games and apps folder is only editable with a phone hacking tool and there is only original manufacturer software in it obviously
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>if the folder "games" does not exist, why not simply create one?
19:42<Chris82>it exists, it's just not editable like some files on the phone
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19:48<Chris82>I am going to bed I think :)
19:48<Chris82>good night guys
19:49<KUDr>gn all, i am going too
19:49<KUDr>3:05 take off
19:49<Chris82>have a good flight
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19:51<mikk36>as soon as i reconnect my phone with pc, win gives me bsod :P
19:51<mikk36>if it's connected while booting, it's fine
19:51[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:51[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:51[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum: Iron - Into The Battle [05:52]
19:52<mikk36>anyway, i found the files for opera mini :P
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52<mikk36>but there are a lot of .$ and .sest files
19:52[~]Caemyr np: Ensiferum - Into The Battle [05:52m/256kbps/44kHz]
19:52<Gekko>Caemyr: stfu
19:52<mikk36>Caemyr !!!
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19:56<mikk36>!seen Chris82
19:56<_42_>mikk36, Chris82 ( was last seen quitting #openttd 6 minutes ago (30.06. 00:49) stating "" after spending 5 hours 19 minutes there.
19:56<mikk36>damn :P
19:58<mikk36>damn :P
19:58<mikk36>well, i'm downloading the pc-suite atm
19:58<mikk36>hope it helps
20:04<Caemyr>oops sorry
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21:18<NukeBuster>Woohoo I just did it!
21:18<NukeBuster>4 explosions :D
21:18<NukeBuster>finally :D
21:18<Gekko>on what
21:18<NukeBuster>45 degrees rotated rectangle :D
21:19<NukeBuster>Bin buggin me al week
21:19<Gekko>oh diagonal nuking
21:20<NukeBuster>maybe i should ask someone on the forums to code a nuke grf :)
21:20<NukeBuster>i mean draw...
21:20<Gekko>and why not natural disasters
21:20<NukeBuster>i could try to code it :Y
21:20<Gekko>acid rain
21:20<NukeBuster>earquake would by nice...
21:21<NukeBuster>but they would have to modify the blitter again...
21:21<Gekko>"Your multimillion dollar empire is owned by a random earthquake."
21:21<Gekko>"Enjoy the rebuild."
21:21<NukeBuster>hmm... an extreme disasters patch...
21:21<Gekko>Fund new nuke
21:21<Gekko>choose where you build it
21:21<Gekko>automatically get an appaling rating
21:22<Gekko>causes their vehicles to crash
21:22<Gekko>entire towns to be removed
21:22<Gekko>with the bomb alarm sound effect
21:23<NukeBuster>hmm... the nuke part would be one of the harder things...
21:23<NukeBuster>but the earthquake might not be that hard...
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21:24<@Belugas>NukeBuster, search on dev forums, you will find earthquake and volcanoes
21:24<@Belugas>Meush did that a long time ago
21:27<@Belugas>but... if i may, concentrate on the 45 degree patch :)
21:27<@Belugas>it is FAR MORE usefull...
21:27<NukeBuster>gehe... sure...
21:27<@Belugas>and explosions are pretty normal... nuke stuff is just... a fantasy
21:28<NukeBuster>hmm... wouldn't be a loving game if that were put in :)
21:28<@Belugas>and congratualtions for the four explosions, by the way :)
21:28<@Belugas>nope... i doubt
21:28<@Belugas>loving game will be 45 degres, standard explosions...
21:29<NukeBuster>took me al week to finish...
21:29<@Belugas>my opinion, anyway
21:29<@Belugas>no easy code, isn't it?
21:29<NukeBuster>yeah, was just drifting away :P
21:29<NukeBuster>no it isnt...
21:29<NukeBuster>espescially the math part...
21:29<@Belugas>i've made a trip in the past of ottd tonight...
21:29<NukeBuster>haven't done real math in 4 years
21:30<@Belugas>i discovered some very old decisions...
21:30<@Belugas>i hate maths.
21:30<@Belugas>i love logic
21:30<@Belugas>and i love my bed
21:30<@Belugas>and i think i'll just say... good night
21:30<Gekko>you just made a matimatical decision
21:31<NukeBuster>good night...
21:31<NukeBuster>i'm going to get the patch back to trunk...
21:31<NukeBuster>and then hit bed aswell
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22:38<Smoovious>can anyone suggest a halfway decent tram grf for trunk?
22:39<Smoovious>a fully decent one would be acceptable too. :D
22:40<Gekko>the serbian one
22:40<Smoovious>is it on grfcrawler?
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22:47<Smoovious>found it
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 30 00:00:35 2007