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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-06-30

---Logopened Sat Jun 30 00:00:35 2007
01:12|-|CobraA1 [] has joined #openttd
01:13<CobraA1>Trying to figure out how AirportHasBlock works in aircraft_cmd.cpp works
01:14<CobraA1>In particular the line that begins with "if (current_pos != reference "
01:14<CobraA1>What is "reference" and why is it compared to "current_pos"?
01:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10396 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix: When landscape generating, allow for 200ms between screen updates instead of updating every 200ms. Previously slow screen updates would result in very slow map generation (GeekToo)
01:39<stillunknown>Has there ever been a bug in openttd were things like trackbits, track were not set on a bridge, stations and/or normal track
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01:45<@peter1138>trackbits are not set on stations
01:45<@peter1138>nor bridges
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02:19<CobraA1>headings == states?
02:20<CobraA1> if (current->heading == v->u.air.state) {
02:20<CobraA1>Odd line of code
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02:48<CobraA1>Anybody here know about the airport state machine??
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02:51<CobraA1>I guess I'll as the dev forums
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02:53<Smoovious>'sup Wolf01... how goes the toyland replacement?
02:54<Wolf01>if you have some suggestions about the lightning i would appreciate it :P
02:54<Smoovious>can't say I do at the moment
02:54<@peter1138>lightning? hmm
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03:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10397 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#969]: subsidy awarded messages broken due to {COMPANY} now taking 1 (not 2) parameters. also remove an unnecessary dereference.
03:27<Smoovious>^5 peter1138
03:28<Smoovious>I originally thought I screwed up something with my patch... wanted to make sure before I posted it... would have posted it a couple days ago if not for my tinkering in there...
03:29<@peter1138>that sounds like what someone here was complaining about but didn't bother reporting
03:30<Smoovious>962? ya sure?
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03:45<Smoovious>o/ Bjarni
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03:46<@peter1138>that Smoovious bloke... 'e's 'armless
03:46<Smoovious>the other one is under the desk
03:47<@peter1138>that's just too much information
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04:13<@Bjarni>so are you guys having fun?
04:13<Sionide>it's 24/7 fun up in here!
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04:34<jojo1000>hello friends :)
04:34<jojo1000>is there any workaround to the 'tried to load too many sprites' option ? in 0.5.2 ?
04:34<jojo1000>i dont want to download any nightlies to overcome this... any other workaround ?
04:35<Sionide>what's wrong with nightlies?
04:35<jojo1000>well with nightlies .. can't find any multiplayer server with them
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04:36<nairan>there is one server with last nightly
04:36<@peter1138>so keep 0.5.2 for multiplayer games and the nightly for single player
04:36<Sionide>nairan, at least one
04:36<nairan>its updated after every nightly compile but there is barley playing somone (winder why)
04:37<Gekko>if this OpenTTD was really cool, there would be no need for nightlies
04:37<Gekko>modularity :P
04:37<Gekko>kind of like a newgrf
04:37<nairan>nightlies are good to test new feat. and also find bugs.
04:37<Gekko>when you check a server is says "Noob, get this piece."
04:37<Gekko>I didn't mean "NO" nightlies
04:38<Gekko>i just meant utilised in a different way
04:46<Gekko>how so
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04:53<jojo1000>which nightly would accept more than 16383 sprites ? any ideas ?
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04:55<@peter1138>if you going to get a nightly you should just get the current one
04:56<Gekko>HMage loves cyrillics
04:57<jojo1000>okie :)
04:58<jojo1000>thanks so much
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05:05<HMage`>Gekko: what that was for? :)
05:05|-|HMage` changed nick to HMage
05:05<Gekko>you're russian
05:05<Gekko>therefore you like cyrillics
05:07<HMage>do you like the ground you're walking on from day to day? I bet you just don't feel a thing towards that. Same here, I don't feel a thing towards letters.
05:08<@peter1138>ACTUALLY I DO!
05:08<@peter1138>Gekko: you'd think they'd like UTF8 too
05:09<HMage>that's why you write in caps? :)
05:09<@peter1138>no, i was just shouting
05:10<@peter1138>my boss is a numbnuts
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05:10<@peter1138>he phoned me to tell me some server is down, but didn't think it was very important
05:10<@peter1138>he also asked me to check out why some customer's site wasn't working
05:10<@peter1138>he didn't twig...
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05:14<Gekko>I love cyrillics and this alphabet
05:14<Gekko>both are sexy in their own right
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05:15<Eddi|zuHause2>you, sir Gekko, have a twisted mind...
05:15<@peter1138>hylje, he has issues :)
05:15<Gekko>Why, I love languages.
05:16<Gekko>the sexiest languages are russian and german
05:16<Gekko>and I'm not a socialist.
05:16<nairan><-- german ....
05:17<Gekko>hey sexy
05:17<Gekko>half of irc is on dialin-t
05:17<@Bjarni>Gekko: you have a very twisted mind
05:17<hylje>big isps :o
05:17<@Bjarni>how can German be sexy???
05:17<nairan>yea telekom = monopol in germany
05:17<Gekko>telecomm monopoly here :P
05:17<Gekko>now called telstra
05:18<hylje>we have like five major isps and counting
05:18<Gekko>and you are?
05:18<hylje>i'm me
05:19<@Bjarni>hylje, I presume
05:19<@Bjarni>can't you see that? :p
05:19<hylje>apparently telstra anonymizes the interwebs just enough
05:19<@Bjarni>think before asking next time xD
05:19<nairan>we have one and now eu going to court of EU law to complain against a protection law in germany
05:19<@Bjarni>what law?
05:20<nairan>its protecting telekom via a company law + subsidy
05:20<Gekko>the EU broke the E.
05:20<hylje>U U U U U
05:20<Gekko>and the Euro sign makes me sick to look at.
05:21<Gekko>its an E, with two lines through it
05:21<Gekko>I thikn I'm going to puke.
05:21<hylje>$ is a S with two lines through it
05:21<hylje>enjoy your aus$
05:21<Gekko>two in the US
05:21<Gekko>one in AU.
05:21<nairan>australia or austira?
05:21<Eddi|zuHause2>what's wrong with the € sign?
05:22<Gekko>lol Eddi|zuHause2 I see â ‚¬
05:22<Gekko>thats just silly with UTF-8 on
05:22<Gekko>do the sign again
05:22<Gekko>i realise i didnt have UTF8 on
05:22[~]Gekko pukes at the sight
05:22<Gekko>hylje: yours doesnt work though
05:22<hylje>your charset is silly
05:23<Gekko>your hostname is silly
05:23<hylje>im too lazy to turn it to
05:24<Gekko>you can change it on demand?
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05:24<Gekko>or you ssh into your server
05:24<hylje>i believe i have to call my isp for dat
05:25<@peter1138>€ :D
05:25<hylje>eur eur eur eur eur
05:25<Gekko>STOP IT
05:26<Gekko>a quarter?
05:26<Gekko>UTF8 is way broken on Windows I swear
05:26<@peter1138>½lb burger :D
05:27<Gekko>it's implemented like a ... chimney... in a ... forest? no.
05:27<Gekko>i'm out of similies
05:27<Gekko>ln-: pound is sexy
05:27<hylje>your metaphor fails
05:27<Gekko>Eddi|zuHause2: LIKE WTF?
05:27<Gekko>hylje: it's a similie
05:27<Gekko>a metaphor would be
05:27<@peter1138>but a '£' is just an L with another line...
05:27<Gekko>It's implemented as a chimney in a forest.
05:28<Gekko>peter1138: e is just a c with a line through it
05:28<Eddi|zuHause2>an € is just an E with another line...
05:28[~]Gekko pukes once more
05:28<Gekko>ÿ <-- like who the hell invented that
05:28<eekee>does look a little wierd, & I've never heard £ compared to L before :D
05:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: you're saying an € wouldn't be an € without two lines in it?
05:29<eekee>Gekko: The question is, ÿ did they do it?
05:29<Gekko>you fial
05:29<ln->eekee: but it is
05:29<hylje>Gekko: so do you
05:29<Gekko>no, I fail
05:29<Gekko>you fial
05:29<Gekko>where I get an F.
05:29<Gekko>you get an F-.
05:29<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: i was responding to Gekko's statement that a € is just an E with an extra line...
05:29<eekee>ln-: looks like a back to front 2 with a line, to me.
05:29<@peter1138>eekee: but is .
05:30<Eddi|zuHause2>Gekko: i believe ÿ is used in dutch (ij ligature)
05:30<Gekko>ÿ is odd.
05:30<hylje>dutch is silly
05:30<Gekko>dutch is silly
05:30<Gekko>i'm half duth
05:30<@peter1138>"but is ." wtf
05:30<eekee>BC, before computers, it was often written with 2 lines
05:30<ln->☢ ☭ ☂
05:30<Gekko>no, no nuke signs
05:30<@peter1138>eekee: what was written with 2 lines?
05:31<eekee>peter1138: £, sorry
05:31<Gekko>look what I did.
05:31<@peter1138>Like ₤ then
05:31<Gekko>I brought you all down to my level
05:31<eekee>I can't understand why I can't get ~n on my keyb
05:32<Gekko>alt 0241
05:32<@peter1138>ñ is easy
05:32<Eddi|zuHause2>eekee: you need to activate ~ as dead key
05:32<ln->just go have a ☕
05:32|-|Ammlller changed nick to Ammler
05:32<Eddi|zuHause2>or in the luxury version you have a "compose" key ;)
05:33<eekee>mew, British keyboards aren't designed for Spanish, although they'll do Iceplandic, lol
05:33<eekee>ln-: I can't even see what that is in white-on-black anti-aliassed :D
05:33<@peter1138>as is ņ, ń and ň
05:33<eekee>Eddi|zuHause2: I've rebound my keyboard to have a compose key before, love it, but i@m lazy :d
05:34<@peter1138>¡ = alt-gr shift 1
05:34<Eddi|zuHause2>¡ is AltGr+Shift+1 here
05:34<eekee>eh, I'm out, have funs
05:34<eekee>¡! same here
05:34<Gekko>Windows is shit
05:34<Gekko>we all agree?
05:34<Eddi|zuHause2>¿ is AltGr+Shift+ß ;)
05:35<Gekko>ß lol
05:35<Gekko>you german you
05:35<eekee>gah, ß is altGr-s here
05:35<eekee>§ bai
05:35<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause2: lies, there is no ß key ;)
05:35<Eddi|zuHause2>AltGr+s works, too... but german layout has a special key for ß
05:36<@peter1138>AltGr+Shift+- gets me ¿
05:36<Eddi|zuHause2>that gives me ˙
05:36<Eddi|zuHause2>whatever that is
05:36<@peter1138>‘smart’ quotes, woo
05:39<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, the closing one looks the wrong way around
05:39<@peter1138>«foreign» quotes
05:39[~]peter1138 said “not in this context”
05:41<Gekko>So are you people always like this?
05:41<Gekko>I've chosen my home.
05:41<Eddi|zuHause2>(whatever "this" means)
05:42|-|valhallasw changed nick to valhallasw`study
05:42<Eddi|zuHause2>noooo... it's all part of a plan that leads back to the topic!!
05:42<@peter1138>There is a topic?
05:43<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but it has the wrong version number in it :p
05:43<@peter1138>It does?
05:44<Eddi|zuHause2>it says "0.5.2" instead of "0.5.3-RC1"
05:45<@peter1138>But 0.5.2 is the latest stable release.
05:46<Gekko>in your opinion
05:46<Eddi|zuHause2>but in the past it always said the latest RC
05:47<Gekko>topic: Stable - 0.5.2 | Release Candidate - 0.5.3-RC1
05:47|-|alanin changed nick to Alanin
05:47<Eddi|zuHause2>too long :p
05:48<Gekko>RC - 0.5.3-RC1 then
05:48<Gekko>or change the { - } to {: }
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06:04<@peter1138>₠₡₢₣₤₥₦₧₨₩₪₫€₭₮₯₰₱₲₳₴₵ :o
06:05<eekee>Hey there's a proper £ sign
06:05<Gekko>theres two signs
06:05<Gekko>you didnt know?
06:05<Gekko>one is the sterling pound i believe
06:05<Gekko>one is the imperial pound
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06:06<eekee>I kinda did, by dad, who grep up in Egypt said the one with 2 lines was the British pound, the one with 1 line, the Egyptian
06:06<eekee>imperial pound.. yeah that adds up
06:06<Tefad>scenario editor
06:06<Tefad>i can't get town directory
06:08<Tefad>anyone reproduce this?
06:10<Eddi|zuHause2>what currency is that reverse S sign??
06:10<Tefad>reverse s?
06:10<Eddi|zuHause2>₴ <-
06:11<Tefad>oh not in my font
06:11<Tefad>₰₱₲₳₴₵ can't see those
06:11<Eddi|zuHause2>it looks like a reverse S with two horizontal lines
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06:11<Tefad>i'm trying to reproduce a bug
06:12<@peter1138>U+20B4: Hryvnia sign, Ukraine
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06:17<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, since when does generating strings.h not trigger a full recompile anymore?
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06:18<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, yes, scenario editor is wrong
06:19<Tefad>i only poke around in ottd once in a blue moon
06:19<Tefad>but when i do, i find a bug within like.. 5 mins
06:19<Eddi|zuHause2>there's a line "World Population: ####" with random numbers
06:19<Tefad>actually it's the same number over and over
06:19<Eddi|zuHause2>if you click that, the town list opens
06:19<Tefad>here anyway
06:19<Eddi|zuHause2>i get several different numbers
06:19<Tefad>oh, weird
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06:20<@peter1138>TrueBrain broke that then ;)
06:20<Tefad>mine says the original random number
06:20<Eddi|zuHause2>701,265 [the , is wrong there, even], 189 and 0
06:20<Tefad>then after i make some towns, it says it briefly before figuring out town population
06:21<Tefad>oh weird
06:21<Tefad>now it's doing crazy stuff
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06:21<Eddi|zuHause2>the "town list" item opens the transparency options
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06:21<Tefad>what ever those are
06:22<Eddi|zuHause2>so i guess moving those to the options menu, where it belongs, was not done properly in the scenario editor
06:24<Tefad>also i broke it again
06:24<Tefad>now it's in an infinite loop
06:25<Tefad>created a 512x512 flat map, zoomed in and put a city in the middle
06:25<Tefad>then rapidly clicked expand
06:25<Gekko>Tefad: howd that break it
06:26<Gekko>I mean what did it break
06:26<Tefad>infinite loops are bad
06:26<Gekko>what happened
06:26<Gekko>infinite loop of what
06:26<Tefad>no idea
06:26<Tefad>it was a tight loop
06:26<Tefad>no graphics updates
06:26<@peter1138>I'M AFRAID OF AMERICANS
06:27<Gekko>and all that.
06:27<Gekko>I'm done.
06:27<eekee>oh ah
06:28<Tefad>so why are you afraid
06:28<@peter1138>it's just this song, isn't it...
06:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10398 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10271): transparency menu option wasn't moved properly in the scenario editor
06:30<Tefad>yeah it happened again
06:30<Tefad>i'm using 3x3 roads for towns
06:31<Tefad>oh, it broke out
06:31<Tefad>it just takes a crazy amount of time to expand after a certain point i guess
06:32<Gekko>no shit
06:32<Tefad>yay geometry
06:32<Gekko>it's gotta draw with it's head
06:32<Tefad>population over 1 million
06:32<Tefad>for one city
06:33<Gekko>yeah you broke it alright
06:33<Gekko>get openmosix
06:33<Gekko>connect up about 10 core 2 duos
06:33<Tefad>haha nah
06:33<Gekko>then get a 2048 x 2048 map
06:33<Gekko>expand from the middle out wiht a clicking macro
06:33<Tefad>i think i'm on 2048^2 now
06:33<Gekko>that gets slower
06:33<Gekko>1s first click
06:33<Gekko>2s next click
06:33<Gekko>4s next click
06:33<Tefad>4 8 16 . . .
06:34<Gekko>8, 16, 32
06:34<Gekko>more like
06:34<Tefad>eh, i'm not noticing a terrific delay increase
06:35<Tefad>it's no longer expanding
06:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Gekko: surely you mean ans*2
06:40<Eddi|zuHause2>which means, 2^x
06:41<Gekko>im tired aight?
06:41<Gekko>yeh 2^x
06:41<Gekko>that's what i was getting at
06:41<Tefad>so i now have three cities at 1.2m population
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08:02<stillunknown> src/misc/dbg_helpers.h:32: warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type
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08:02<stillunknown>src/misc/dbg_helpers.cpp:56: instantiated from here
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08:43<stillunknown>TileZ height is that always the lowest height of the tile?
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09:13<Eddi|zuHause2>it's more likely the height of the top corner
09:13<Eddi|zuHause2>lmao ->
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09:56<Caemyr>Eddi: i`m living like 10 minutes walk from the Wimbledon Club:P
09:56<Gekko[PDA]>tennis gay
09:59[~]eekee wibbles & hides from the strange smileys
10:01<Gekko[PDA]>i win the vwar
10:02<Gekko[PDA]>eekee: bow,
10:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10399 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix (FS#962): [Windows] _wnd.has_focus was not properly set after using ALT-TAB
10:02[~]eekee bows, mew
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10:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10400 /branches/0.5/video/win32_v.c:
10:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10399):
10:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Windows] _wnd.has_focus was not properly set after using ALT-TAB [FS#962] (r10399)
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10:28<kaan>hi all
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10:35<stillunknown>kaan: hello
10:40<Tefad>player.h:241: Player* GetPlayer(PlayerID): Assertion `( (uint)((i) - (PLAYER_FIRST)) < ((uint)((sizeof(_players)/sizeof(_players[0])))) )' failed.
10:40<Tefad>when exiting editor
10:41<Tefad>ok : )
10:46<redmonkey>when i move the world with the right mousebutton, and the game is going to be saved automatically in a network game, i land up somewhere at the edge of the world sometimes
10:47<redmonkey>is this a known issue?
10:49<Smoovious>check the bug-tracker?
10:49<redmonkey>not yet
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10:52<Chris82>hi :)
10:52<Chris82>huh mikk36 was looking for me 14 hours ago?
10:52<Chris82>is it possible that huge amounts of money keep OpenTTD crashing for whatever reason?
10:53<Chris82>I have two test games with world population 11 mio+ and a few thousand vehicles which run fine
10:53<Chris82>I have less than 2 billion in both games tho
10:54<Chris82>in another game where world population is below 7 mio+ and there are only around 1800 vehicles the game keeps crashing all the time
10:54<Chris82>I have around 12 billion in that game tho
10:54<Chris82>all games are on 1024x1024 maps with 7 AI players and only a few vehicles of my own
10:54<redmonkey>Chris82: can i have the savegame please? ;)
10:54<Chris82>hold on I up them, but you need ChrisIN for some of them
10:55<eekee>It's common for right-mouse-drag to go too far whenever the game jerks
10:56<Smoovious>Chris82... where is your IN located?
10:56<Phazorx>in scenario editor "town directiry" goes to transparency menu
10:57<Chris82>wasn't that fixed in 10388 or 89 ?
10:57<Phazorx>ahh i have not most recent then
10:58[~]Tefad noted it
10:58<Phazorx>just checking if you guys are awawre
10:58<Tefad>: D
10:58<Phazorx>before submitting the bug
10:58<Smoovious>this one? -> <DorpsGek> -Fix (r10271): transparency menu option wasn't moved properly in the scenario editor
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10:58<Chris82>yeah I think it's this one
10:58<Chris82>I wasn't aware of the bug since I never use the scenario editor, but I've read the log
10:58<Chris82>Smoovious: is the IN :)
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11:00<Smoovious>Chris82... next build you make, try out FS#954 ...
11:01<Chris82>is that the chat thing?
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11:02<Smoovious>nope... mail subsidies
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11:02<Smoovious>the old code, ignored mail c ompletely
11:03<Chris82>oh I'll have a look at it, I was testing the subsidy distance patch too
11:03<Chris82>but I think I will make it behave a little differently
11:03<Chris82>because the patch assumes that you play large maps with few towns
11:03<Chris82>but when you play a huge map with many towns you'll get an extreme amount of subsidy offers
11:04<Smoovious>well, my original plan was to redo subsidies completely... but I'm holding off on that til I know if cargo types and handling get changed
11:04<Chris82> the two stability-test are the current stable ones
11:04<Chris82>I am just looking for the crashing game
11:04<Smoovious>nah, subsidies are limited to how many are active at any time
11:04<Chris82>I hope that I didn't just have an autosave which I've overwritten :/
11:05<Chris82>ah ok didn't know that, I thought the patch was just increasing the distance and there is no limit to the overall amount
11:05[~]Smoovious nods.
11:06<@peter1138>Smoovious: what would change with cargo types & handling?
11:06<Smoovious>one thing I was going to try to do was gradually increase the max distance for subsidies, to go along with the faster vehicles later
11:07<Chris82>hmmmm I just loaded a game with lots of twin single engine trains
11:07<Chris82>and obviously a lot of the trains are too old but I get Train 0 blah blah warnings
11:07<Chris82>wasn't that a know bug that should be fixed?
11:07<Smoovious>peter1138... well... from what I saw so far, the cargo types are pre-defined... CT_GOODS, CT_COAL, etc... cities were previously hardcoded for only CT_PASSENGERS, when they weren't the only city-based cargo type
11:08<Smoovious>so... what would happen when we are able to use the new cargo-path GRF's in the future... need some kind of lookup at game-start, for all of the cargo types in the game, and which ones can be h andled by towns, etc
11:08<@peter1138>but it's based on 'town effect' now
11:09<Smoovious>with TE_PASSENGERS, and TE_MAIL defined...
11:09<@peter1138>TE_GOODS, TE_FOOD, etc, yes
11:09<Smoovious>still doesn't allow for additional types
11:09<@peter1138>why not?
11:10<Smoovious>I haven't seen anywhere that would check for them
11:10<@peter1138>ecnomy & subsidies, basically
11:11<Smoovious>say for example, a new cargo path of gravel, cement, concrete... and concrete can be accepted by towns, for example... none of those types are enum'd
11:12<@peter1138>if it was accepted by towns, it would have the town effect of goods
11:12<@peter1138>so it would have TE_GOODS set
11:13<Smoovious>what about Goods thten
11:13<@peter1138>goods also has TE_GOODS
11:13<Smoovious>how can you check to see how much has been delivered, if they're both using the same type
11:13<@peter1138>town effect is a property of the cargo
11:14<@peter1138>you deliver gravel, which has a town effect of goods
11:14<@peter1138>er, yeah
11:14<Smoovious>gravel + cement goes to the concrete mixer, and concrete delivers to towns :D
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11:16<Smoovious>ok... so when the destination town is queried to find out how much concrete has been delivered there to see if it is eligible for a subsidy, it will be able to tell we're referring to concrete and not goods/
11:16[~]Bjarni avoids getting into that town
11:16<@Bjarni>it looks like they are able to give concrete shoes to just about everybody
11:17<@peter1138>Smoovious: yes
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11:17<Smoovious>skateboard parks are huge in that town
11:17<Smoovious>ok, peter1138
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11:19<Smoovious>towns will still only check for pass (and mail with my patch)... any more flexible way to lookup what a town can produce?
11:19<Smoovious>like... trash to go to a landfill or incinerator industry?
11:19<@peter1138>only check for pass doing what?
11:20<Smoovious>for making a subsidy
11:20<@peter1138>cos they assume towns produce passengers and everything else comes from an industry...
11:21<Smoovious>(mail gets ignored a lot as cargo... don't even think I've seen the AI make a mail run)
11:21[~]Smoovious nods.
11:21<Smoovious>I know
11:21<Smoovious>that's why I made my patch
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11:23<@peter1138>i guess a new town effect would do that
11:24<Smoovious>just a function where I could lookup what a town produces and accepts, would be good... could base subsidies on that, and when newcargoes come in, it should already be ready for them
11:24<Smoovious>or even if I can look through the cargo list, for a town flag
11:25<@peter1138>not so easy
11:25<Smoovious>accepts or supplies
11:25<@peter1138>well we could record what cargo types a town has produced
11:26<@peter1138>would only need a bitmask i guess
11:26<@peter1138>unless it stops producing that type
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11:26<Smoovious>well... the town tiles all have values of 1/4pass, 1/8mail and stuff like that... on game start, couldn't the list be generated t hen?
11:26<Phazorx>Smoovious> this one? -> <DorpsGek> -Fix (r10271): transparency menu option wasn't moved properly in the scenario editor
11:26<Phazorx>it's there in 295
11:26<Phazorx>was there another fix?
11:26<@peter1138>no, because towns... grow
11:27<@peter1138>Phazorx: 10271 is the revision it is *fixing*
11:27<Smoovious>they still use town tiles
11:27<Phazorx>gotach peter1138
11:27<Smoovious>how does a town know what tiles/sprites it can use?
11:28<Smoovious>when it comes to newgrf additions
11:29<@peter1138>all manner of decisions
11:30<@peter1138>but also town production can be variable with no way of knowing in advance what will be produced
11:30<Smoovious>except for the tiles a town can use
11:31<Smoovious>the town tiles, are set up with their pass/mail values, aren't they? so a house's values are one set, and an office building is another set
11:31<Smoovious>for that matter, industry tiles do too, to a point
11:32<@peter1138>not for newgrf :)
11:33<Smoovious>not yet :)
11:34<Smoovious>my thinking is... if I can find those values out by using the ? tool, I should also be able to find it out wiithin the program
11:34<@peter1138>that shows you what they accept
11:34<@peter1138>not produce
11:35<Smoovious>half of the battle
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11:35<@peter1138>not really, acceptance is a totally different kettle of fish to production
11:35<hylje>i has a bucket
11:35<Smoovious>to a point
11:36<Smoovious>how would a station know how many passengers or mail to produce to be transported then
11:36<@peter1138>stations don't produce cargo
11:36<hylje>it queries the buildings around them and buildings go either "got nuthin lol" or "lol take these"
11:37<@peter1138>town tiles produce cargo and 'deliver' it to the station
11:37<Smoovious>thank you, hylje
11:37<hylje>no problem
11:37<hylje>although pedantric people would go around correcting that
11:38<Smoovious>so, there is a way to do it
11:38<@peter1138>yes, but it's different every time
11:38<Smoovious>I don't need to know how much are being produced... only that they are being produced
11:39<@peter1138>so you don't know what will be produced
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11:39<@peter1138>no, what cargo types will be produced is random (or rather based on random values)
11:40<Smoovious>the town's array stores stats about pass and mail production, and how much has been delivered, etc... but doesn't allow for anything else
11:40<hylje>to the newgrf settings dialog
11:40<@peter1138>correct. we can change that thouhg.
11:40<Smoovious>fine if it is random... I care about itt being capable
11:40<Smoovious>that's my argument, peter1138...
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11:40<hylje>how trivial is it to remove already selected newgrfs from the add grf dialog?
11:41<Smoovious>thanks for coming around :D
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11:41<hylje>Prof_Frink: self-reference ftw
11:41<@peter1138>Smoovious: but it doesn't know what it can produce until it actually produces it
11:41[~]eekee wants a grf that gives a bloke with a wheelbarrow
11:42<hylje>ancient vehicle set
11:42<Smoovious>how does it know if it can actually produce it, if it doesn't know what i t can produce?
11:42<eekee>yeah lol
11:42<hylje>vehicles from year 0 onward
11:42<eekee>mules pulling carts
11:42<hylje>and ships
11:42<eekee>oh yes, they'd be cool
11:42<hylje>first 1900 years without any trains at all
11:43<hylje>just RVs and ships
11:43<hylje>that would be rather epic
11:43<@peter1138>Smoovious: it asks the grf: tell me what to produce. and the grf comes back with the type & amount
11:43<eekee>barges should come in at some point
11:43<eekee>yeah :D
11:43<Smoovious>they used canals a lot tho before trains
11:43<hylje>of course
11:43<hylje>if we could have changing costs for constructing
11:43|-|welterde_ changed nick to welterde
11:43<hylje>or just different road and canal classes
11:43<hylje>with better coming out over time
11:44<hylje>needed for efficient use by newer stuff
11:44<Smoovious>peter1138... that would be plenty... no point making a subsidy for a route there is no supply for
11:44<eekee>well, we'd need lochs that can't take the big ships
11:45<hylje>canal classes.
11:45<eekee>yeah lol
11:45<eekee>*cheaper locks that can't...
11:45<hylje>more primitive rather
11:45<Smoovious>bulk cargo being pulled around by a slave-team with ropes in front of it
11:45<hylje>although slaves might not be too politically correct
11:46<hylje>when bigger ships come around canals need to be upgraded
11:46<Smoovious>I don't care about politically correct
11:46<Prof_Frink>new industry: pyramid. accepts: slaves, rock.
11:46<hylje>does newcargo support changing cargo over time?
11:46<eekee>nah... cannals might be upgraded at some point, but few cannals take ships
11:46<@Bjarni>we have 255 CargoIDs
11:46<Smoovious>politically correct is just a way to try to control people's thoughts and ideas... it is an embarament
11:47<@Bjarni>two of them are reserved for special usage
11:47<@Bjarni>actually we have 256 ;)
11:47<eekee>say rather that slaves might not be nice
11:47<@Bjarni>which makes 254 different cargo types for a single game... this should be enough for changing cargo types over time
11:47<Prof_Frink>eekee: What about the Manchester Ship Canal?
11:48<hylje>does it support cargo types obsoleting and introducing?
11:48<Smoovious>slaves are a fact of our history... if we're gonna have a historical era, you gotta h ave em
11:48<Smoovious>but maybe to be PC, we could instead call them 'disposable people'
11:48<eekee>Prof_Frink: what about the Suez Canal? :D I'm just saying that /most/ canals won't take ships, & it's probably expensive to upgrade them
11:48<@Bjarni>that would really fit all ages
11:49<eekee>I don't think slaves were used for bulk transport apart from in the megalithic cultures
11:49<@peter1138>Bjarni: we have 32 cargo types
11:50<@Bjarni>we have a bitmask somewhere?
11:50<@peter1138>plus 3 pseudo types
11:51<Smoovious>perhaps for cargo types (correct me if it is already this way) but maybe a bitmask... bit-0: town supplied... bit-1: industry supplied... bit-2: town demand... bit-3: industry demand...
11:51<hylje>what if a cargo is both?
11:51<hylje>say disposable people
11:51<Smoovious>then set both
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11:51<hylje>industries and towns can take it
11:51<@peter1138>Bjarni: in some places, yes, and also fixed arrays
11:51<@Bjarni>bitmasks can handle more than one state
11:52<hylje>thats great
11:52<Smoovious>cargo can change a little bit over time...
11:52<@Bjarni>peter1138: ok... then adding more than 32 types would demand some work :/
11:52<hylje>and wouldnt >32 types annoy ttdpatch people?
11:53<@Bjarni>it depends on how we use it
11:53<eekee>what about those pseudo types? Can there be more of them?
11:53<Smoovious>say, a refinery, taakkkkes oil, makkes gasoline... later in t he game, bio-fuel is available, so the refinery can start taking grains
11:54<Smoovious>annoy ttdpatch people? hey... that's justification enuf for me. :D they already annoy me :D
11:54<Smoovious>(tho now that I think of it, everyone annoys me :D )
11:55<Smoovious>any of ya guys live around Glasgow?
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11:58<hylje>next thing you tell us Glasgow people annoy you
11:59<@peter1138>Bjarni: i wanted to use a std::vector/list at some point but const issues scuppered that idea
11:59<Smoovious>no... terrorist attack at the Glasgow airport
11:59<hylje>what did they blow up
12:00<Prof_Frink>Burning car driven at the terminal
12:00<Smoovious>dunno about you guys... but I just don't feel any terror about it...
12:00<Prof_Frink>nothing actually went kablamo
12:00<Smoovious>family gatherings tho... that's about the only thing that causes terror in me
12:00<Prof_Frink>It was protesters about Owen Rudge not being there
12:00<Smoovious>ya... incompetent terrorists... :)
12:01<@peter1138>that'll bugger up their no claims bonus
12:02<Smoovious>its all just silly...
12:02<Smoovious>dunno what they think they're gonna accomplish
12:03<Prof_Frink>Smoovious: Governments using terrorism as an excuse to do whatever the hell they like causes terror in me
12:03<eekee>(@ peter1138)
12:03<Phazorx>hmm... what can be a reason for empty map to stall?
12:03<Phazorx>10205 - 10387
12:03<Phazorx>any rev i have does same thing
12:03<Phazorx>on certain date map stops
12:03<eekee>I rather agree with Prof_Frink
12:04<eekee>yeah, exactly
12:04<Smoovious>Prof_Frink... agreed
12:05<Prof_Frink>Who in 1 hour...
12:05<Phazorx>if anyone can help it'll be greatly appreciated
12:05<Prof_Frink>Smoovious: Series finale
12:06<Smoovious>don't know the series
12:06[~]Prof_Frink throws a TARDIS at Smoovious
12:06<Smoovious>oh, Dr Who
12:07<Smoovious>haven't seen it since the 70's/80's
12:08<Smoovious>I liked it for the state of the art special effects. :D
12:08<Prof_Frink>It still has them
12:08<eekee>I've seen one episode of the new series. Liked it, & yeah, it looked good
12:08<Prof_Frink>Plus, it now sometimes has inanimate bad guys
12:09<Smoovious>inanimate?! wow... wonder how they pulled that off... still on the cutting edge, eh?
12:09<hylje>they just didnt have funds to animate them
12:10<Prof_Frink>Smoovious: They're only inanimate when you can see them
12:10<Prof_Frink>So whatever you do, don't blink
12:10<Prof_Frink>Don't turn your back, don't look away
12:10<Prof_Frink>and don't blink
12:10[~]eekee shivers :p
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12:12<@peter1138>seems you added ttrs3 after the towns were generated?
12:13<hylje>can we have sound effects whenever a train hits a switch?
12:13<hylje>trains just dont feel like trains when they dont make noise
12:13<Phazorx>peter1138: correct
12:13<Smoovious>it'd be a little much, wouldn't it?
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12:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10401 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt main_gui.cpp signs.h signs_gui.cpp): -Feature: new sign editor features including switching to previous/next sign (XeryusTC)
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13:19<dihedral>hello guys
13:19[~]Smoovious wonders what he means by that...
13:20[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 with a trout - just to say hello :-)
13:22<kaan>hi dihedral
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13:26<UnderBuilder>what factors have influence on savegame size besides the map size?
13:26<@peter1138>number of objects
13:33<Smoovious>that pretty much covers everything
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13:34<UnderBuilder>airports and docks?
13:35<Smoovious>covered under 'objects'
13:35<Thomas[NL]>the terraforming piece of XeryusTCs patch is not in trunk :(
13:35<XeryusTC>it isnt?
13:36<XeryusTC>it is also possible to place two signs on one tile
13:36<UnderBuilder>also now I have a small, easy and beficious idea: a indicator for industries that are closing down
13:37<Smoovious>there is... news...
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13:39<UnderBuilder>i.e. when a factory is marked as 'about to close', a indicator appears over it or why not the industry shows some effects like a sawmill retires its logs?
13:40<UnderBuilder>or will be that possible when newindustries comes?
13:43<UnderBuilder>also a program request (I can't do it as I don't understand networking code): one that shows a warning when, for example, a ottd server started a new game, or it has a free slot
13:43<kaan>Smoovious: what news?
13:44<Thomas[NL]>newspapers on the bottom of the screen
13:44<Thomas[NL]>he was responding to UnderBuilder
13:44<kaan>i see
13:44<Smoovious>2nd button from the right, next to the ?
13:45<UnderBuilder>well, I requested it because it is boring waiting in-game for a free company slot
14:03<+michi_cc>hmm, no Rubidium here today it seems. so, who's feeling responsible for file uploads instead? Bjarni, peter1138?
14:03<+michi_cc>c413d0a2745e6be0b2576eab8612b6ff (also on
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14:04<Smoovious>I guess I feel responsible
14:04<Smoovious>I'm not, but I feel so
14:05<@peter1138>michi_cc: 0.5.3-RC1 is buggy so i won't bother :)
14:06<+michi_cc>which RC wasn't buggy? :)
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14:17<UnderBuilder>0.5.3 rc1?
14:18<+glx>yes, but don't use it :)
14:20<UnderBuilder>I will use it only for fun :)
14:21<UnderBuilder>I want to laugh
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14:26<UnderBuilder>and yes, I laughed
14:33<kaan>im trying to understand what is happening in the autoslope patch ev made. i ran in to something called steep slopes that appears to be slopes that rises more than one height level, i have never seen that in game, how do i use that?
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10402 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-30 21:32:39
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 10 fixed by kokobongo (10)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 fixed by glx (2)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 2 fixed, 2 changed by lorenzodv (4)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 2 fixed, 2 changed by darkttd (4)
14:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 43 fixed, 1 changed by meush (44)
14:37<SmatZ>kaan: slopes are described in the trunk/docs directory
14:37<kaan>oki, ill take a look, thanks SmatZ
14:37<hylje>kaan: steep slopes are diagonal slopes who span two levels
14:38<SmatZ>kaan: sorry - my mistake, they are not probably described there - in file tileh.png, steep slopes are those numbered 23,27,29,30
14:38<kaan>hylje: in one tile?
14:39<Smoovious>kaan... it is a tile where one pair of opposite corners are the same elevation, with the other two corners, 1 higher, and 1 lower
14:40<Smoovious>raise up a single point on the map a few times, and you'll see em
14:40<kaan>Smoovious: oh like that, oki i think i get it now
14:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10403 /trunk/src/lang/ (40 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r10323): 'message from company' text used {STRING1} instead of {COMPANY}
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15:17<ln->who is watching digital cable-tv on PC?
15:17<ln->i.e. DVB-C
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15:32<mikegrb>I am watching DVB-C at the moment, but not on a pc ;)
15:32<mikegrb>this here teevee has a qam tuner
15:32<mikegrb>im n ur teevee painting ur pixels
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15:37<Phazorx>it is possible to disable disasters via console?
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15:48<Wolf01> i split the transparency for the catenary, because i think that people don't get it as it is with transparent stations, what do you think about this idea?
15:53<dihedral>g'night ladies
15:53[~]dihedral heads to bed
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16:06<Phazorx>peter1138: can you log onto europe game and check finances window
16:09<Phazorx>somehow it is blank...
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16:43<@Bjarni>POSIX - π = OSX
16:44<eekee>lol so it does
16:45<@Bjarni>good somebody is awake
16:45<@Bjarni>I was afraid that everybody left and missed my brilliant input
16:45<@Bjarni>which I just made up
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16:58<MarkMc>When I upgrade from ordinary railroad to monorail, is there anyway to simply "upgrade" trains from RR to MR, or do I have to do it manually?
16:59<MarkMc>I know the function convert, but not more than that :P
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17:02<kaan>MarkMc: you have to manually do it im afraid
17:03<MarkMc>Oh, okey
17:03<MarkMc>kaan: Thanks! :)
17:03<kaan>np :)
17:06<@Bjarni>basically I never coded any way to convert automatically even though I planned to do so for more than a year :/
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17:06<@Bjarni>but something always showed up and took priority
17:08<Smoovious>please don't do automatic train upgrading... upgrading is too easy as it is. :)
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17:09<Smoovious>gotta put some work into it. :)
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17:18<@Bjarni>Smoovious: well.... so far my plan to do it automatically has resulted in 0 lines of code
17:18<@Bjarni>at this rate, I guess you will get your wish fulfilled
17:19<Smoovious>maybe bring it up to a few lines of code which amounts to an upgrade button, and a red window which says "Stop being so lazy and do it yourself!" ???
17:19<Sacro>yay, Sergey_S is back
17:20<Sacro>posting in wrong topics as normal
17:20[~]Smoovious really wishes he had a 'send aircraft to this depot' button on the depot window right now... trying to get ~120 aircraft in the same place...
17:20<kaan>Bjarni: you lazy bastard, get to work :P
17:20<Smoovious>some don't go to that airport
17:21<eekee>heh, I found it tricky enough to get 24 aircraft away from 1 airport when I wanted to upgrade it
17:22<Sacro>'You say png Codec is a program? I just downloaded the version for win32, and my system is pretty sure its a "file"'
17:22<kaan>oh well, im going to bed, have fun :)
17:22<Smoovious>well, that's why I want em all at the same airport... so I can empty out the other 6 and upgrade em. :)
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17:23<+glx><Sacro> 'You say png Codec is a program? I just downloaded the version for win32, and my system is pretty sure its a "file"' <-- probably because it doesn't open a window when he clicks on it :)
17:24<Sacro>glx: well it is a "file"
17:25<+glx>anyway a program is a file :)
17:25<+glx>just a special one
17:26<Sacro>chmod +x
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17:33<@Bjarni><kaan> Bjarni: you lazy bastard, get to work :P <-- actually I have a task that takes priority
17:33<@Bjarni>he left
17:34<ln->Bjarni, does the mac have an API for DVB?
17:34<@Bjarni>I have EveTV and it works great with DVB
17:34<@Bjarni>but without EyeTV... good question
17:37<ln->like.. if i wanted to port the linux driver for the dvb-t usb-stick i have, would everything have to be done from scratch?
17:37<ln->and the current assumption is: yes
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17:53<@Bjarni>easy solution: check if it is on the supported list for EyeTV
17:53<@Bjarni>( )
17:53<@Bjarni>if not, then you might be in for a bit of work
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17:58<ln->is there a list other than that "3rd Party" sidebar?
18:06<@Bjarni>I can't remember
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18:06<@Bjarni>I didn't really look into this issue
18:10<mikk36> <-- technical spirit frozen :D
18:13<eekee>technical spirit?
18:14<mikk36>well, yeah
18:14<mikk36>that's what's written on the bottle in estonian
18:14<eekee>oh, wonder what that is in English?
18:15[~]eekee guesses at surgical spirit
18:15<mikk36>spirit as the main component of alcoholic stuff
18:15<eekee>ah yeah, that'll be it then
18:15<mikk36>and even that is frozen :D
18:15<eekee>cool :D
18:15<mikk36>we cooled the cpu with ln2 :P
18:16<eekee>you did? I've heard of that being done ^^
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18:19<mikk36>technical spirit -> mostly methanol
18:20<@Bjarni>ln-: btw you can always ask elgato if they support your hardware or plan to do so within the near future. Their (potential) customer support is actually pretty good
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 01 00:00:15 2007