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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-02

---Logopened Mon Jul 02 00:00:48 2007
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01:29<DNazarov>hi all !
01:30|-|DNazarov changed nick to Smoky555
01:33<Smoky555>did i miss something? does 32bpp branch integrated into trunk?
01:34<Noldo>not reallt, but there are some 32bpp features coming in to trunk
01:34<Noldo>and already there
01:38<Smoky555>Noldo : but 32bpp branch is closed?
01:42<@peter1138>32bpp was abandonnned
01:42<@peter1138>with too many 'n's
01:42<@peter1138>hmm, correction
01:42<@peter1138>32bpp branch was abandonned
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01:48<Smoky555>i see
01:48<Smoky555>thanks :)
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02:06<@peter1138>gah, bloody athanasios...
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02:18<dihedral>hello guys
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03:41<sHELL>.o/ hi
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03:42<sHELL>hmm small question... whats the main difference between the TTDPatch and OpenTTD
03:43<sHELL>... beside the fact that openttd is opensource and a rebuild and whatever... talking about gameplay
03:43<hylje>less hard limits
03:43<hylje>for instance, we can have arbitrary rail types rather than replacing them
03:43<Rubidium>bigger/smaller map, working (inter)net(work) play
03:44<Rubidium>less newgrf support, but we're catching up quite quickly
03:45<Eddi|zuHause2>technically, TTDPatch is also open source
03:45<sHELL>never tried TTDpatch... wel maby I did some years ago
03:45<Smoovious>I suppose you could also say that TTDPatch is more mature... but they have limitations that OTTD doesn't have... when we reach limitations of the current code, we can just expand it
03:46<sHELL>intresting, well I have to say, LOVE the multiplayer ^^
03:46<Rubidium>and changing (patch) settings does not require to restart OTTD
03:47<Smoovious>always a plus
03:47<Eddi|zuHause2>openttd supports more platforms
03:47<Smoovious>then there is portability to other platforms
03:47<Eddi|zuHause2>(as in Linux, OSX...)
03:47<Smoovious>Eddi|zuHause2 beat me to it. :P
03:47<sHELL>yeah... first time I clicked on it I was kinda like... "mwhe this gonna work?" but I was suprised to find quite some servers with people playing on it.
03:48<Smoovious>pretty active non-dev-team group of people submitting patches too... and some make it into the game
03:49<Smoovious>and even if they don't, you can always make up a private build for you and your friends with them too
03:49<Smoovious>I don't think a day has gone by yet where I haven't seen at least 3 patches submitted to flyspray
03:50<Smoovious>tho admittedly, I haven't been c ounting. :D
03:50<sHELL>oh yeah, was on maartens server last night, some guy got bored and was pasting news facts corosponding to the current game date
03:51<Smoovious>someone got bored? with OTTD?! BAN EM!
03:51<sHELL>perhaps an idea for someone to make a plugin that reads out wikipeida news facts and spams them into ttd chat :P
03:51<sHELL>play and learn history at the same time :P
03:52<sHELL>maby it wil get some goverment funding for educational opensource programing XD
03:59<sHELL>by the way, saw a screenshot on the website about a shinkansen thingie
04:01<Rubidium>like ? And you want that too?
04:01<sHELL>@_@ yeah
04:01<sHELL>going to japan at the end of the year
04:01<sHELL>gonna reserve a j-rail pass this month ^^
04:02<Rubidium> <- the "Japan Railways Train Set" which replaces some graphics and such
04:02<hylje>replaces maglev
04:02<hylje>and its trains
04:02<Rubidium>hylje: that's true
04:03<Rubidium>they should make a OTTD version that replaces the monorail and still keeps maglev as the Japanese have maglev too ;)
04:03<hylje>are arbitrary railtypes trivial to add through newgrf?
04:03<sHELL>well... have them
04:03<sHELL>thats a big word
04:03<sHELL>there still testing them
04:03<sHELL>only comercial maglev track is in china
04:03<Rubidium>sHELL: too bad that the railpass doesn't include the Nozomi trains aren't included
04:04<sHELL>no 500
04:04<Maedhros>hylje: currently arbitrary railtypes are impossible to add via newgrf
04:04<sHELL>but, its not that expensive to have a ride in it
04:04<Smoovious>or an OTTD version, that adds an additional track type
04:04<sHELL>about 70 euro's from osaka to tokyo
04:04<sHELL>but you can take one stop for only 15 euro's or so
04:05<Smoovious>one stop?
04:05<hylje>between two stations
04:05<hylje>Maedhros: do we need namespaces to cleanly let that happen?
04:05<Smoovious>that's like only tasting chocolate cake. :)
04:05<sHELL>yeah, last time I checked not all rides go nonstop
04:06<sHELL>then again.. im way more intrested in the 600 and 700 ^^
04:06<sHELL>think my eye's will pop at several stations XD
04:07<Smoovious>well worth paying that and the airfare myself, just to see your eyes pop
04:07<Smoovious>may even take video and post it on youtube
04:07<Rubidium>the 700 series shinkansen is ugly.
04:07<@peter1138>hylje: no, we need my railtypes support :)
04:08<@peter1138>ps, "ow" is a different sound to "oh"
04:08<@peter1138>unless that hurt... i guess
04:09<sHELL>and I realy hope to get a look at the 360 S ^^
04:09<Smoovious>go for the PS2 instead
04:09<sHELL>talking about trains here >_<
04:09<Smoovious>I know
04:09<sHELL> <<< that one
04:10<Smoovious>just being a pain while I'm waiting for my proceed signal
04:10<sHELL>damn... gota work in 50 min
04:11<sHELL> <<< sure is one of the most weirdass trains I have seen yet
04:12<Rubidium>Micky Mouse edition ;)
04:19<sHELL>@_@ more coffee
04:27<sHELL>lol, seems chris made a shinkansen 0 patch for locomotion
04:27<sHELL>oh, and I still got the orginal tt box somewhere
04:27<Jerub>eirdass trains I have seen yet
04:28<sHELL>woah found the box... dusty *cough cough*
04:28<@peter1138>ears :o
04:29<sHELL>time to post weirdass trains
04:30<hylje>choo choo
04:30<sHELL> <<< Talgo 350 from spain :3
04:31<hylje>aerodynamics, heh
04:31<Rubidium>that's just like the Shinkansen 700 Series
04:32<sHELL>yeah, seems the ducknose makes less noice
04:33<sHELL>altho in japan the need the lower nose because tunnels are lower then in europe
04:34<sHELL>kinda like why the 360S looks so weird ^^
05:06<stillunknown>If i added a m8, would that have to be saved somewere specifically?
05:07<Maedhros>look for chunks like MAP7 in misc.cpp
05:08<Rubidium>though the real question is: why is it needed?
05:09<Smoovious>what is m8 anyways
05:10<Smoovious>(one thing I hate about railsims in professional mode... been sitting at a stop signal for 45 game minutes now... what fun... )
05:10<hylje>enjoy your novelty games
05:10<Smoovious>well, it is more of a sim than a game
05:15<stillunknown>Rubidium: an experiment
05:21<SmatZ>when I join the openttdcoop game (rev10401) as a spec, the Build rail and Build airport buttons are not disabled ... when I click the Build rail button, the game asserts. I tried to reproduce that on private server, but failed... is this corrected in some newer revisions?
05:22<@peter1138>how strange
05:22<hylje>newgrf probably
05:23<hylje>gut feeling
05:26<sHELL>need to work
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06:38<dihedral>how is progress on fixing the bug in 0.5.3-RC1?
06:39<Maedhros>i think it was fixed a few hours after it was found
06:40<dihedral>so... what else is supposed to go into RC2?
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06:43<Rubidium>something called time
06:47<dihedral>why not put the time into RC3?
06:47<dihedral>and have a playable rc2 :-P
06:48<Rubidium>it takes quite some time to do the actual release...
06:48<dihedral>ah - ok
06:48<dihedral>i thought that was more a matter of minutes to an hour :-)
06:48<dihedral>depending on the amount of backports
06:49<dihedral>and i was thinking rc2 would only really need to fix of the obvious one
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06:49[~]dihedral assumes way too much
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06:56<dihedral>Rubidium: just out of curiosity - how long does it take to prepare a release, etc?
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07:22<Rubidium>excluding backporting something like 1 hour to do the actual release and then a few hours for all the post release stuff (making posts, making other people compile, adding stuff to the very slow and inefficient, ...)
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07:43<dihedral>Rubidium: could compiling stuff not be automated like with the nightlies?
07:43<dihedral>i.e. a script that will grab the latest addition to tags?
07:44<Rubidium>well, compiling isn't the most work (for me)
07:44<Rubidium>adding them to SF is
07:47<Rubidium>and making all the posts at different places/updating websites etc.
07:47<Rubidium>furthermore we want the RCs to be made with MSVC because then the crash logs will actually tell something useful
07:48<Rubidium>and OS/2 doesn't compile on the CF yet and neither do debian packages
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08:00<stillunknown>Rubidium: gcc crash logs are useless?
08:10<dihedral>makes sense :-)
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08:21<Rubidium>stillunknown: I wouldn't know how to get the function that actually crashed from a Windows crash log when it was compiled with GCC
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09:18<Phazorx>tempsnowline is not ottd friendly is it?
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>there was a patch that did that...
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>it was in the miniin
09:19<hylje>and cool
09:21<Phazorx>so i take thata s a no
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10:17<Phazorx>how can i supress npf from debug_level 5?
10:18<Phazorx>debug_level "npf=0" does nothing
10:18<+glx>and without quotes?
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10:34<skidd13>I have doubled grf's in the "Availible NewGRF files" window. But only a few ones, not all.
10:35<+glx>they are in different dir I guess
10:35<skidd13>nope, they are listed exactly a the same.
10:35<mikk36>Q: why are some windows with static position ?
10:36<mikk36>ie. new vehicle proposals, add newgrf etc
10:36<l_Blue_l>@devs Is there any main reason that buses and Trucks can't have the same shared orders?
10:37<skidd13>@glx: find | grep shows them only once too.
10:39<Rubidium>skidd13: what version of OTTD?
10:39<skidd13>current trunk, what else? ;)
10:40<Rubidium>are the MD5 checksums the same?
10:45<Rubidium>that shouldn't happen in trunk, though it happens in 0.5.X
10:45<skidd13>Maybe something with the grf structure? Cause only a few specific ones appear doubled. (pb_viaduct, CS railroad tracks, and my buoy_test.grf)
10:45<Brianetta>l_Blue_l: Truck and bus stations aren't the same
10:45<Brianetta>l_Blue_l: You also can't share orders between a train and a bus
10:45<Brianetta>although you can clone the orders
10:45<@peter1138>order cloning is broken, at least for artic rvs
10:45<Phazorx>hmm... is gradual_loading supposed to work for trains ?
10:45<Phazorx>i am trying to play with timetables
10:45<Phazorx>and even if i set it to 1 day wait
10:45<Phazorx>all pax jump onboard
10:47<mikk36>why won't anyone answer my question ?
10:49<Phazorx>i dont know the answer :)
10:52<l_Blue_l>@Brianetta: I understand that the stations are different but i would have thought it should still be possible if all the stations had the both station types.
10:53<Brianetta>but then buses could stop at truck stops, etc
10:53<l_Blue_l>no why would they. They would go the the bus stop next door
10:54<Phazorx>Brianetta: by Merfies law, AP does not crash with debuggign
10:54<Brianetta>best leave it on then
10:55<Rubidium>Osai: does the exact same savegame desync when you use NPF instead of YAPF?
10:56<Osai>didn't test it
10:56<Osai>give me a sec
10:57<Osai>we have yapf for trains and RVs
10:57<Osai>I turned of only trains
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10:59<Maedhros>peter1138: what's broken with artic rvs and orders? i thought it worked last time i tried...
10:59<@peter1138>i ctrl-cloned some and had no ord...
10:59<@peter1138>wait, that wasn't even artic
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11:08<Osai>Rubidium: I turned off yapf for rail and now it doesn't desync anymore
11:08<Osai>with yapf the time of desync was almost the same
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11:12<Osai>Rubidium: must be an yapf issue
11:12<Osai>the point of desync is always the same
11:12<Osai>and it could be 64bit related
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11:16<Rubidium>Osai: I couldn't reproduce it locally with int32 vs int32, so I suspect 64 vs 32 trouble
11:17<Osai>could be correct
11:17<Osai>one of our members did a local test with VPN and he didn't desync either
11:18<Rubidium>hmm, Osai maybe you could test with a 32bits OSX binary
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11:18<MeusH>can anyone tell me where can I find "Add shared vehicles" (groups related), please?
11:20<Osai>Rubidium: like this:
11:20<MeusH>or "{WHITE}Can't add shared vehicles to group..."
11:20<MeusH>thanks in advance
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11:22<Rubidium>Osai: yes
11:22<Rubidium>MeusH: the drop down in the advanced group GUI
11:23<Rubidium>for a group (not the "all" group)
11:24<Osai>Rubidium: 32bit build desyncs too
11:24<Osai>with yapf on
11:24<MeusH>ah, a nice feature :)
11:24<MeusH>altought it's hidden
11:24<MeusH>thank you Rubidium
11:24<Rubidium>Osai: hmm, so PPC desyncs
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11:25<Osai>XeryusTC desyncs too
11:25<Osai>dunno which architecture he uses
11:25<Rubidium>neither do I
11:25<Osai>exactly at the same point of time
11:25<Osai>but Mucht_ doesn't desync
11:25<Osai>its a little bit weird :>
11:26<Mucht_>thats very true
11:26<Rubidium>and all joined at the same time?
11:26<Mucht_>and I have 64bit as well
11:26<Osai>shall I do another log
11:26<Osai>with 2 clients?
11:26<Osai>on desyncs, one doesn't
11:27<Rubidium>well, you said you didn't do anything; it just desynced after 1.5 game month or so
11:27<Osai>and its reproducible
11:28<Mucht_>its very interesting due to the fact that I'm the only one not desyncing
11:29<Rubidium>so at the moment it looks like PPC desyncs and non-PPC doesn't (well at least this case of desync)
11:29<Rubidium>and it only happens when YAPF is used
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11:32<Mucht_>hmm, too bad, there must be another cause for our case
11:33<skidd13>self compiled or nightly? Maybe broken compiler series.
11:34<skidd13>g++-4.2 seems to be buggy. I went back to 4.1
11:35<Mucht_>I guess we all compile by ourselfes indeed
11:35<ln->it can't be buggy, it's free software.
11:36<Mucht_>I use 4.1
11:36<Mucht_>and I don't desync
11:36<Mucht_>XeryusTC: there?
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bjarni * r10410 /trunk/src/video/
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS458]: [OSX] if the resolution is changed to something that's too high for the monitor, then it's reduced to fit the monitor size (PinguTux)
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: This solves a possible crash
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: This also solves a graphical glitch where the titlebar can be drawn on top of the game area
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Those issues only aplied to window mode
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11:39<Osai>I didn't compile my self
11:39<MeusH>hello Wolf01
11:39<Wolf01>hello MeusH
11:40<Mucht_>but Osai you could only have this ppc-bug
11:40<Mucht_>or better: this ppc-bug as well
11:41<Osai>this ppc-bug?
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11:42<skidd13>glx & Rubidium: The doubled grf entry is only at the binary compiled with g++-4.2. So I guess broken compiler... :(
11:45<Osai>I g2g now
11:45<Osai>I will compile it with 4.0
11:46<Osai>and check what happens
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12:09<EmiT>im a newbie
12:09<EmiT>howto connect the public server?
12:09<EmiT>it needs a password
12:09<Thomas[NL]>you mean openttdcoop?
12:10<Thomas[NL]>read their wiki
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12:11<EmiT>ah thanks
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12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10411 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-02 19:21:47
12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by webfreakz (2)
12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 4 fixed, 7 changed by meush (11)
12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 9 fixed, 2 changed by devilRed (11)
12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 30 fixed by Fishingsnow (30)
12:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 fixed by Necrolyte (2)
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12:43<Adriaan>can someone point me to a download with the required original TTD files?
12:43<Adriaan>hi MeusH :)
12:46<MeusH>yeah, wait a second
12:47<Wolf01>i'm first!!! XD
12:47<MeusH>yep, what he said
12:47<Adriaan>haha, thanks both :)
12:48<MeusH>try this one:
12:48<MeusH>this contains graphics and file
12:48<MeusH>and have fun :)
12:49[~]Adriaan _clicks_
12:49<Wolf01>ah, MeusH, 2 saturdays ago i bought the TTDX cd :O
12:49<MeusH>wow :D
12:49<MeusH>and does it work fine?
12:49<MeusH>did you play it?
12:49<Wolf01>i don't know, i hanged it on the wall like a picture
12:50<Wolf01>"hanged", is only lean on the wall
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12:57<Phazorx>anyone avare of servers successfully using AV8 1.33 ?
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13:00<Adriaan>i havent played this game since i was nine
13:00<Adriaan>im getting all emotional
13:03[~]hylje runs in circles around Adriaan shouting "EMO"
13:03[~]Adriaan dances!
13:03<Rubidium>Phazorx: you're saying AV8 1.33 might be the cause of the desyncs?
13:04<Adriaan>mm when i try to stretch it over my dual screen it crashes :(
13:04<Phazorx>AP issues seem to be related
13:04<Adriaan>Segmentation fault
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13:08<caladan>i ve bought TTDX too lately, i made a copy to be safe :>
13:08<caladan>now it stands in my room and im proud of it :D
13:13<Adriaan>mm what is the best transport on low distance?
13:13<Adriaan>i used to build trains practically everywhere
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13:24<Thomas[NL]>woo sac's trees in sub-arctic
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14:07<valfarre>ah crap
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14:29<mikk36>and after that:
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14:41<valfarre>so many newgrf sets out there
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14:55<Phazorx>valfarre: europe game works now btw, so feel free to join if still inetrsted
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15:22<Osai>Rubidium: I tried it with my own compiled version
15:24<Osai>g++ 4.01
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15:39<Sacro>is anyone still fixing pbs bugs... ?
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15:47<valfarre>nah.. I need sleep
15:47<valfarre>almost faling apart here :S
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15:53<KUDr>Osai: ping
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15:53<KUDr>Osai: ping
15:53<Osai>again pls, got a screen error
15:53<Sacro>KuDr: you poinged him good
15:53<Osai>pong... now
15:54<KUDr>Osai: /j #desync
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16:54<Digitalfox>To know when was the last time a person here in the channel typed something, what's the command? "!seen + nickname " ?
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17:10<mggrant>Digitalfox: yes, !seen <nick> (_042_ appears to be the bot)
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>@seen Digitalfox
17:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Digitalfox was last seen in #openttd 18 minutes and 47 seconds ago: <Digitalfox> To know when was the last time a person here in the channel typed something, what's the command? "!seen + nickname " ?
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17:14<Digitalfox>ok, thanks mggrant and Eddi|zuHause :)
17:14<Digitalfox>@seen belugas
17:14<@DorpsGek>Digitalfox: belugas was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 34 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <Belugas> indeed, Eddi|zuHause3
17:14<mggrant>oh, didn't see Dorps there :)
17:15<Digitalfox>!seen belugas
17:15<_42_>Digitalfox, if you can't see belugas here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
17:15<Digitalfox>hum, so _42_ doesn't work for this?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>DorpsGek is a little more intelligent... even if that is a contradiction in itself :p
17:16<Digitalfox>ok, thanks guys, i got the info i wanted :)
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17:28<@peter1138>i have an r3234M build...
17:29<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: why would it be a contradiction?
17:29<@peter1138>br_mini :o
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17:30<Eddi|zuHause>err, from how i understood it, "Dorps Gek" is the most stupid person in the village---
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17:32<Eddi|zuHause>correct me if i am wrong
17:32<Rubidium>gek => crazy
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18:13<Sacro>@seen KUDr*
18:13<@DorpsGek>Sacro: KUDr* could be KUDr (2 hours, 19 minutes, and 18 seconds ago) or KUDr_wrk (3 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes, and 38 seconds ago)
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18:26<NukeBuster>What is wrong when getting the following warning?
18:26<Phazorx>Rubidium: we got r10295 yapf-desyncing now
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18:30<Eddi|zuHause>NukeBuster: the "," there are totally useless (and probably wrong)
18:30<NukeBuster>ok, thank you. Got something to look for now :)
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>which patch does that?
18:32<NukeBuster>45 degrees rotated rectangle...
18:33<NukeBuster>been looking to solve the last warnings...
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18:37<Phazorx>correction, r10295 desyncs even with disabled yapf
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>NukeBuster: try something like that: "_thd.select_proc == DDSP_stuff && _thd.select_method == VPM_stuff"
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>and go slap the programmer of this rubbish...
18:43<NukeBuster>gehe, the original programmer is long gone :P
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19:38<_Ben_>hi, does anybody know where to find the sprites for the streetlamps? If not I'll trawl through the pcx files, but any hint would save me some time
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>maybe table/road_land.h can give you hints?
19:50<_Ben_>asuming you mean this, it doesn't seem to help.
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19:51<Sacro>00266 _roadside_lamps,?
19:52<_Ben_>yep, I was looking for where the sprites are found, in wich graphic file, and what number
19:52<_Ben_>No worries, I'm just gunna look through and find it. I was just seeing if anyone new already, and could save me some time
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 03 00:00:28 2007