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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-03

---Logopened Tue Jul 03 00:00:28 2007
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03:40<dihedral>google is indexing my savegames :-D
03:41<Smoovious>you should set up a robots.txt file in your top level directory
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03:47<dihedral>Smoovious: about to do so!
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05:55<dihedral>@seen Chris82
05:55<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Chris82 was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 2 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <Chris82> thx
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06:19<stillunknown>Phazorx: ping
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06:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10412 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove unnecessary inclusion of hal.h in various files (and add one)
06:33<stillunknown>peter1138: i have something interesting
06:33<@peter1138>cool, but show that to your lady
06:34<stillunknown>Remember that 1000 maglev train savegame i told you about, i managed to shave off 10% cpu usage (65% to 55%).
06:34<@peter1138>oh aye
06:35<stillunknown>i did "cheat" a bit, by enlarging the map array to store some more data, so if i undo that i'll probably loose a bit again.
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06:35<@peter1138>what data?
06:35<stillunknown>tile slope, min_z, max_z
06:36<stillunknown>9 bits to be precise
06:37<stillunknown>But after i did that i found pretty large bottlenecks, so i can't predict the exact consequence of undoing that.
06:37<@peter1138>saves looking up the height of 4 tiles to find it, i guess
06:37<@peter1138>although that shouldn't be very slow
06:38<stillunknown>GetTileSlope takes a few perfect of the cpu usage.
06:38<stillunknown>But as i said, after that i found this was not the only issue.
06:39<@peter1138>well at some point we may store the slope in the tile, which takes 5 bits
06:40<stillunknown>Are you at work?
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06:42<stillunknown>peter1138: you know what
06:42<stillunknown>what's embarrassing now?
06:42<stillunknown>The acceleration function taking 9% cpu :-(
06:43<@peter1138>well there'll always be something hogging cpu :)
06:43<stillunknown>But it's a lot for something like that.
06:44<stillunknown>But i won't turn a mega patch into a even more large patch.
06:44<@peter1138>it loops the train a couple of times, iirc
06:45<stillunknown>Although i'm glad that the last speed ups were gained by simplifying the code.
06:45<@peter1138>train_cmd.cpp:380 & 382
06:45<@peter1138>i wonder if removing * 60 and doing it once after the loop would help
06:46<@peter1138>tiny tiny amount
06:48<stillunknown>peter1138: Soon i will need advice how to cut up my patch, because most people do not fancy a 120 KB patch, are you the right person to ask?
06:51<stillunknown>And then it's silent ;-)
06:54<Phazorx>stillunknown ?
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06:56<stillunknown>Phazorx: I have good news, i managed to reduce cpu usage on the SML_testcase.
06:56<stillunknown>I do have to undo one cache(not sure if that'll have a huge effect) (in the map), but currently i got 65% ->55%
06:56<@peter1138>by turning off the blitter :D
06:57<Phazorx>stillunknown: that's nice
06:57<stillunknown>They were done with the debug blitter in a quiet place.
06:57<Phazorx>that's the way to test it
06:58<stillunknown>As usual the improvement was biggest with EvsL.
06:58<stillunknown>But SML was a challange.
06:59<Phazorx>trains are too fast
06:59<Phazorx>msut say current challange are desyncs on our servers
06:59<stillunknown>I don't do network stuff ;-)
07:00<Phazorx>since now we got it happening everywhere, even with "assumed to be stable" releases
07:02<stillunknown>Phazorx: I can't help in that area.
07:03<@peter1138>ps, nightlies ARE NOT RELEASES
07:03<Phazorx>releases > revisions
07:03<Phazorx>stillunknown: well your effort will be appreciated or sure
07:04<stillunknown>Took me a lot of time to get the hang of it and produce efficient and working code.
07:04<stillunknown>On functions that get called so often.
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07:05<Phazorx>assuming we can get to the point where these improvements will be measurable and will matter
07:05<Phazorx>stillunknown: optimization is ever going process :)
07:05<Eddi|zuHause2>if functions are called really often, inlining might help a great deal
07:05<Phazorx>both on rail network layout and on code level...
07:05<caladan>Not much if they are big...
07:06<stillunknown>You get increased cache misses if you do that.
07:06<dihedral>out of curiosity: what was Ev's problem (regarding his slopes patch)
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>a) you save the function call overhead
07:06<Eddi|zuHause2>b) you allow the compiler to do much more optimisation
07:07<Eddi|zuHause2>dihedral: his patch got rejected, and he threw a hissy fit...
07:08<stillunknown>Eddi|zuHause2: i have inlined some things, even replaced some functions, like GetTileZ with more efficient version based on information i already had
07:08<stillunknown>I did read up on what could be done ;-)
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07:10<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: and you want to tell me that that was all that's to it?
07:10<dihedral>i was trying to read the forum thread
07:10<Eddi|zuHause2>dihedral: yes
07:10<dihedral>though him having deleted all his posts (appart of a single one)
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07:10<dihedral>makes it hard to follow the entire thing
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07:12<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: was there some other reason for the reject appart from the coding style?
07:12<stillunknown>The coding style was the main reason i think.
07:12<Eddi|zuHause2>something about massive use of macros
07:13<dihedral>yeah - i recall seeing those wild discussion here
07:13<dihedral>but i did not want to believe that would make anybody that upset
07:14<dihedral>!seen Ev
07:14<_42_>dihedral, Ev (~chatzilla@ was last seen quitting #openttd 6 days 22 minutes ago (27.06. 11:51) stating "Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox]" after spending 1 hour 1 minute there.
07:16<dihedral>i did think that the feature looked somewhat interesting :-P
07:17<stillunknown>strange, error: overloaded function with no contextual type information
07:17<stillunknown>anyone ever seen that, without actually overloading a function?
07:22<stillunknown>stupid error, user error that is ;-)
07:22<Eddi|zuHause2>probably different declaration and definitions?
07:23<stillunknown>I used an invalid variable inside the function.
07:23<stillunknown>Which for some reason was not being treated normally.
07:26<Eddi|zuHause2>C(++) is a bad language anyway...
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07:27<Maedhros>C is a very good language for what it's designed for
07:28<Maedhros>C++ on the other hand seems to incite wildly different opinions in people
07:29<Eddi|zuHause2>the problem is that C is almost never used for what it is designed for
07:29<caladan>imagine OpenTTD written in Java :P
07:29<Eddi|zuHause2>or by people that do not even know what it is designed for
07:32<Ailure>A TTD game like game would run fine in Java
07:33<stillunknown>Ailure: You always have to pay a performance penalty with java.
07:33<Ailure>Very small one
07:34<Ailure>Java VM have a bit of a tendancy to reserve too much memory however
07:34<hylje>id rather rewrite TTD to python
07:34<Ailure>But there's utilities for devolopers that can prevent that now apparently
07:34<stillunknown>Either everyone writes poor java or i just haven't seen an app that works as well/fast as a C or C++ equivilant.
07:35<Ailure>Not that I advocate a rewrite of openTTD
07:35<Ailure>it's fine in C++
07:35<Ailure>Look it up about Java perfomance on Wikipedia or something
07:35<stillunknown>I personally (user perspective) hate java.
07:35<caladan>i do too, it almost never works as it should...
07:36<Ailure>In one case, a java program actually ran faster than it/s c++ equilant
07:36<stillunknown>Then the c++ equivilant was poorly written or never optimized.
07:36<Ailure>That was in some 3D game
07:36<caladan>and the VM was already loaded :P
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07:37<Ailure>Besides Java had some quite perfomance boosts with version 1.6
07:38<iPandaMojo_>Personally, I find it simpler to just hate all programming languages.
07:38<iPandaMojo_>I hate C++ the most, probably mostly by virtue of knowing it the best.
07:39<Ailure>or to write in plain machine code
07:39<caladan>i'm against java, cause I mostly program uCs :D
07:39<caladan>like 16kB RAM, 64kB program memory :D
07:39<iPandaMojo_>(Well, okay, that's a lie, I hate C the most for all the things it screwed up about C++, but I like to try to pretend C doesn't even exist)
07:40<stillunknown>Watch your language in here, they may be children here ;-)
07:40<Ailure>tsk Caladan
07:40<iPandaMojo_>Sorry, I'll stop saying C ;-)
07:40<Ailure>I programmed for 6502
07:41<Ailure>on a system with like what
07:41<caladan>hmm, its 8bit, isnt it?
07:41<Ailure>4 kb of ram
07:41<stillunknown>I kind of like C and C++, because it's used a lot, works well if you know what you're doing and it's the only two languages i know reasonably well.
07:41<caladan>hehe, the example I gave is Atmel's ARM7, so it's even 32bit.
07:42<caladan>Thou now i use MSP430 family, 8kB flash and 256B RAM
07:42<Ailure>actually no
07:42<Ailure>2 kib
07:43<Maedhros>256 bytes of RAM?!
07:43<caladan>it's simple, small thing
07:43<Maedhros>what do you use something like that for?
07:44<caladan>hmmm, like data aquisition, RTCs, timers...
07:44<caladan>now it's device that will controll fish tank :D
07:44<Maedhros>cool :)
07:44<caladan>with temperature sensors, heaters, food feeder, lights, pH meter
07:45<stillunknown>These things must be dirt cheap, otherwise you wouldn't use them.
07:45<caladan>hmm, @4
07:45<caladan>it depends which one
07:45<caladan>the cheapest < $1
07:47<stillunknown>peter1138: the price for z calculation was pretty low
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08:06<@peter1138>bah, power cuts :/
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08:14<Chris82>hi all :)
08:16<Chris82>I noticed some strange behaviour, I had this game running over night
08:16<Chris82>it's at 23xx something now but all AI player obviously went bankrupt over night and dissapeared
08:16<Brianetta>You might need to be patient for a reply
08:16<Chris82>I don't understand why because their profit was fine
08:17<Chris82>no problem it's not urgent :)
08:17<Chris82>I just wanted to point out that there might be an overflow problem with AIs balance, I can't explain it otherwise
08:19<@peter1138>inflation on?
08:21<Chris82>my own balance is a few trillion if I read the number correctly
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08:25<@peter1138>as 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 is the max, a few trillion is quite close
08:25<Maedhros>bah. there goes my one and only oil well...
08:30<Phazorx>hmm... how can i use gdb to bebug stallfreeze rather thana crash?
08:30<@peter1138>^C from gdb
08:31[~]dihedral slaps Chris82 (as a way of saying 'hello')
08:32<Phazorx>peter1138: thanks
08:36<Chris82>hi dihedral :)
08:45<Phazorx>peter1138: ^c just quits the program
08:45<Phazorx>i want the stack trace
08:46<@peter1138>^C breaks
08:46<Phazorx>i get make: *** [run-gdb] Interrupt
08:47<Phazorx>and back to shell
08:47<Phazorx>system shell not gdb
08:47<@peter1138>works for me
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08:47<Phazorx>any other way?
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08:51<@peter1138>Program received signal SIGINT, Interrupt.
08:51<@peter1138>[Switching to Thread 1079363712 (LWP 8134)]
08:51<@peter1138>0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall ()
08:51<@peter1138>is what i get
08:51<@peter1138>i use cgdb usually anyway
08:53<Phazorx>perhaps mingw is the issue somehow
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09:04<Phazorx>apaprently it is a known issue :(
09:04<stillunknown>peter1138: you were right, the price for z calculation was pretty low
09:06<Phazorx>this suxx... i wanted to figure out that TTRS issue :(
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09:10<Maedhros>Phazorx: which TTRS issue was that?
09:10<Phazorx>Maedhros: premade map with added ttrs freezes at certain date
09:11<Maedhros>hmm, i haven't heard about that one
09:12<stillunknown>Phazorx: What kind of timeframe?
09:13<stillunknown>In terms on gameyears.
09:13<Phazorx>scenari starts at 1939 jan 1
09:13<Phazorx>freezes at feb 27
09:13<stillunknown>Could you upload it somewere?
09:14<Phazorx>i can up it too
09:14<stillunknown>Upload it somewere ;-)
09:14<Maedhros>please upload it, so i can have a look too :)
09:16<Phazorx>i had few revisions so i tested it wit 295, 300, 343, 401
09:16<Phazorx>behavior is identical as i recall
09:16<Phazorx>and problem goes away as soon as ttrs is removed
09:17<Phazorx>i was thinking it is my ttrs options - but if they are changed it goes on a bit longer but still freezes within a year
09:18<Phazorx>and yes, i know, coopers find most weird issues all the time... but this is a blank map for one
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09:22<stillunknown>Phazorx: what version of ttrs do you have?
09:23<Phazorx>along with rest of GRFs it is a part of cooperd grf pack 5, need url?
09:23<Phazorx>lemme chevk
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09:25<Phazorx>you can not reproduce the issue?
09:25<Maedhros>i can
09:26<Phazorx>Maedhros: few people confirmed that already
09:26<Phazorx>1st time we saw it on server when 4-5 were connected
09:26<Phazorx>all froze at same time independantly
09:26<Maedhros>it's happening when trying to build a newgrf house at tile 319921
09:26<Phazorx>server is on linux as well as 2 users were
09:26<Maedhros>but i have no idea why at the moment
09:27<Phazorx>Maedhros: settings are forcing it to replace all standard houses by trrs btw
09:27<Phazorx>sort of aggressive
09:28<stillunknown>Despite not seeing any of the familiar ttrs3 buildings, it did go into what seems to be an infinite loop.
09:29<Phazorx>stillunknown: map is made w/o ttrs as i mentioned
09:29<stillunknown>But i forgot to enable debug level 3, so i need to recompile.
09:30<Phazorx>Maedhros: if i get the loco correctly it's water north of sicily
09:32<stillunknown>House callback 23 is the problem.
09:32<stillunknown>If i only knew what that was ;-)
09:33<stillunknown>Phazorx: tile depends on map size
09:34<Phazorx>map is 1024x1024 kinda easy to count
09:34<Maedhros>callbacks are specified in hex, so this is callback 17 (whether a house can be built here)
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09:34<Sacro>OpenTTD needs to be able to load grfs from ~/.openttd/data
09:35<Sacro>so i don't have to sudo and put them in /usr/share/openttd/data
09:36<Phazorx>configurable path would be nice tho
09:36<Maedhros>it can. if you're compiling it yourself though you may have to run ./configure manually
09:36<Sacro>Phazorx: mmm, a simlink might work
09:36<stillunknown>Phazorx: x=625, y=304
09:36<Sacro>Maedhros: i'm the one who wrote the ArchLinux PKGBUILD :)
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09:37<Sacro>i have 2, one that works with the old makefile for stables, and another for -svn
09:37<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
09:37<Phazorx>stillunknown: still water
09:37[~]Sacro puts peter1138 on a train to a forest
09:38<Phazorx>unless i got coordinates wrong again
09:38<stillunknown>Phazorx: i hope you didn't count the tiles?
09:38<Phazorx>X axis is E-W, top right to bottom left
09:38<Phazorx>stillunknown: of cource i did
09:38<Phazorx>with info tool :)
09:38<@peter1138>Sacro: it *does* read grfs from ~/.openttd/data...
09:39<Sacro>peter1138: orly?
09:39<@peter1138>well, the nightlies anyway
09:39<Sacro>i'll shove em in ~/.openttd-svn/data and see what happens
09:40<Brianetta>oingy boingy
09:40<Phazorx>Brianetta: AP under activetcl kinda borks here
09:40<Phazorx>fails to read the config for some reason
09:41<Brianetta>It works on most people's setup
09:41<Phazorx>is location of [autopilot] sectiopn in ini file matters?
09:41<Brianetta>Is your config file called openttd.cfg?
09:41<Sacro>haha, someones done a mortified icon
09:41<Maedhros>Phazorx: x = 433, y = 312, but just use scrollto 319921
09:41<Brianetta>It doesn' tmatter
09:41<Brianetta>but there should only be one [autopilot] section
09:42<Brianetta>although I'm not sure what the consequences of more than one are. It might work, but I haven't tested it.
09:42<Phazorx>Maedhros: hamburg
09:43<Brianetta>The entire config file is read into a namespace, with a list named after the [section] containing pairs of keys and values
09:43<Brianetta>There's a get_setting function and an is_set function to query it
09:43<Brianetta>is_set returns true if get_setting returns 1, yes or on
09:44<Sacro>Brianetta: a train/lawnmower... that'd be cool
09:44<Brianetta>Sacro: Wouldn't it just?
09:44<Brianetta>It could be fited with hedge clippers at track level
09:44<Brianetta>or a cylinder
09:44<Brianetta>or a set of spinning chainsaws if the saplings had really taken root
09:45<Sacro>i can see health and safety having a few issues though
09:45<Brianetta>Not if it's painted orange
09:45<Brianetta>with a sign
09:45<Brianetta>It'd be no more dangerous than being hit by a regular train
09:46<Phazorx>perhaps i am not getting it correctly but it looks that it tries to find the sections
09:48<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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09:49<Chris82>is there a variable for the price of a signal?
09:49<Sacro>smelly wifi :(
09:49<Chris82>146 is the initial price but it'll with inflation change so I can't use 146 for what I want to do
09:50<Chris82>sl: change sr: with inflation
09:52<Maedhros>Chris82: _price.build_signals
09:52<Chris82>thanks :)
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09:55<Chris82>ok, can I post a few lines of source code here for a question?
09:56<Maedhros>better to use :)
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09:56<Chris82>ok so I programmed this bit
09:57<Chris82>the problem was that I was able to build infinite signals with Signal GUI/Autocomplete even with no money
09:57<stillunknown>for the curious amongst you, i have updated my patch here:
09:57<stillunknown>With the overhauled train controller.
09:57<Chris82>this check I added there will now disallow to build signals if there is no money
09:57<Chris82>but the problem is that return total_cost; only returns the current price of 1 signal and not the price of all the signals that couldn't be build
09:58<Chris82>I want it to return the price of the whole action that couldn't be completed though
09:58<Chris82>any idea what I need to change?
09:59<caladan>ops, sorry
10:00<caladan>damn putty :[
10:00<Maedhros>Chris82: hmm. please could you pastebin the entire function?
10:01<Chris82> is the complete function
10:05<@Belugas>Chris82, one possiblity : perform your loop twice, one for counting how many signals will be required, and another one for actually doing it, it the money is there for construction
10:06<@Belugas>so if not enough money, you can tell the user, then
10:06<@peter1138>it's already done twice
10:06<@peter1138>that's what commands do
10:06<Maedhros>Chris82: you seem to be using ret before assigning anything to it
10:07[~]Belugas shuts up and resumes work@work
10:07<Chris82>so I should put the money check after the /* only build/remove signals with the specified density */ part?
10:08<Maedhros>put it after the ret = DoCommand(...);
10:08<Maedhros>and i don't think you need to check flags & DC_EXEC at all
10:09<@peter1138>looks to me that function totally ignores the usual way of cost checking
10:09<@peter1138>what's this "return total_cost" in the middle?
10:09<Chris82>well that's the problem I had, if I don't do it at all, it will allow me to build 100 signals even if I only have 500 cash
10:09<Maedhros>peter1138: i suspect it's based off CmdLevelLand
10:09<Chris82>most of the source I posted there is current trunk code
10:10<Chris82>except the money check and the if (HASBIT... part pretty much at the end
10:10<Chris82>which is from Signal Auto Complete
10:10<@peter1138>hmm, it is
10:10<@peter1138>how crap
10:10<Chris82>in trunk it won't let me build too many signals, but for some reason with auto complete patched in (even if it is disabled!) it allows me to build too many signals
10:10<Chris82>I don't really get it
10:11<@peter1138>the return total_cost stuff isn't in trunk...
10:12<@peter1138>what does CompleteAutoSignals() do ?
10:12<Chris82>CompleteAutoSignals places signals automatically instead of dragging over the whole track
10:12<@peter1138>wow, that's horrible
10:13<Chris82>the auto placing works perfectly except for this money bug
10:13<Chris82>i.e. when I have a 200 tile long track instead of dragging 200 tiles I can just drag 2 tiles and the signals will completed automatically the way I built the first signal
10:13<Chris82>it stops at junctions so tracks will never get messy
10:14<@peter1138>that's really the wrong way of doing it
10:14<stillunknown>There's a difference between it works and pretty :-)
10:14<Chris82>hehe yeah I don't know if the code is pretty, but it works :p
10:15|-|KUDr_afk changed nick to KUDr
10:15<Sacro>hey KUDr
10:16<NukeBuster>@Chris82: Take a look at
10:16<Sacro>@seen Smoovious
10:16<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Smoovious was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 28 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Smoovious> :)
10:17<@peter1138>this function shouldn't need to mess around with additional cost estimation at all
10:17<Chris82>I don't understand why it does either, I only modified it to work at all with current trunk
10:17<Chris82>it's a pretty old patch
10:18[~]peter1138 ponders doing a correct version
10:18<Chris82>looks like rewrite instead of update :D
10:19<Sacro>there appears to be a problem with tramtrkw.grf
10:19<Maedhros>sounds like you overwrote it with something else
10:20<Chris82>the patch is a combination of Singal GUI and Signal Autocomplete, maybe something got messed up there
10:20<Chris82>I should just start from scratch I guess instead of adding stuff that shouldn't be necessary
10:21<Chris82>damn I need a bigger monitor, this scrolling around in source code is really bad :D
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10:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10413 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix r10211: t->townnamegrfid was not cleared when renaming a town
10:25<Phazorx>Brianetta: i found the problem, has nothing to do with AP
10:26<dihedral>what res you running on Chris82
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10:27<Chris82>I probably get a second monitor soon that should help a lot when programming
10:27<dihedral>virtual desktops :-D
10:28[~]stillunknown mumbles something about tiling window managers, and keyboard driven wm's
10:28<NukeBuster>yeah, gotta love them.... :D already have 8 now :P
10:29<Chris82>well virtual desktops and stuff don't help really, the space I see at once is still the same
10:30<NukeBuster>well... then you should get your res up :)
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10:30<Chris82>I don't really know what I should need a VD for, I can as well switch Windows, there's no big difference imho
10:30<NukeBuster>i'm now at 3200x1200
10:30<Brianetta>Phazorx: That was my initial thought, but I gradually got persuaded by the stream of bug reports
10:30<Chris82>yeah well but you can't view the 3200x1200 at once
10:30<Chris82>but that's exactly what would help
10:31<NukeBuster>well.... actually i can :D
10:31<Chris82>then it's no virtual desktop
10:31<NukeBuster>2 monitors :)
10:31<NukeBuster>with 8 vd's
10:31<Chris82>virtual implies not really that big
10:31<Chris82>extended implies really that big => so extended desktop :D
10:31<Chris82>word play *g*
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10:33<Phazorx>Brianetta: "players" crashes server, weas fixed recently tho
10:33<Brianetta>well, that's interesting
10:33<Brianetta>Unfortunately, there's no way to disable that in autopilot (:
10:33<Brianetta>It's kind of a pivotal command
10:37<Phazorx>i understand that... but it took a while to trace it...
10:37[~]Phazorx wants more verbosty from AP
10:38<Sacro>on a network game, we have just had both OSX players desync together
10:39<Chris82>lol I just tried the Signal Auto Complete patch from r5435 and it doesn't have the bug =/
10:39<Chris82>well then I guess something went bogus during the conversion to r10xxx
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10:49<@orudge>it seems the Mac version of the latest nightly has some nice desync errors in multiplayer
10:49<@orudge>the Windows version doesn't appear to have
10:49<Osai>it must be something deeper
10:49<Osai>because other persons have desyncs too
10:50<@orudge>we have two MAc players and three Windows
10:50<@orudge>the two Macs die at the same time
10:50<Phazorx>heh this is new static grfs are loaded in dedicated mode?
10:51<@orudge>er, tis using a variety of grfs
10:51<Rubidium>as you might've been told: dedicated mode is just a normal client without the actual GUI drawing
10:51<@orudge>it's the tt-forums server on
10:52<@peter1138>orudge: you trying getting our mac developer to debug anything :P
10:52<Phazorx>Rubidium: i kinda assumed eyecandy static GRFS are not very usefull in dedicated mode with no renderer
10:53<@orudge>peter1138 :P
10:53<Rubidium>Phazorx: making the dedicated mode more different than the non-dedicated mode makes it easier to introduce bugs
10:53<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
10:53<_42_>Sacro, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 16 hours 23 minutes ago (02.07. 23:29) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 9 hours 38 minutes there.
10:53<Osai>Rubidium: strange problem, when I want to connect to Phazorx server
10:54<Osai>there is a new-grf mismatch when I press the connect button (not before)
10:54<Osai>dbg: [net] Connecting to 3979
10:54<Osai>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 62700102 not found; checksum 0BE107D26B57B6886B5F08DFFB5A5B34
10:54<Osai>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 4D656F80 not found; checksum A9A687595DC4EE204F16CA0DEAD4580E
10:54<Osai>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 4E420107 not found; checksum 5A19459F9A576B151331D981A6887AAD
10:54<Osai>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 2D480107 not found; checksum D12D0DF9F96AFFB4122E32D0C5D12D63
10:54<Osai>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 4E440107 not found; checksum 1BB611005FFB5AB6BCEA9C0B1AF77941
10:54<Osai>dbg: [grf] NewGRF 49450008 not found; checksum F7AB9FF79C9824E41F1FA073A87A70B1
10:54<Osai>dbg: [net] Closed client connection 0
10:54<Phazorx>these are my static grfs
10:54<Osai>these are IDs of static grfs
10:54<Chris82>was SET_EXPENSES_TYPE added after r5xxx ?
10:55<Chris82>sorry r10xxx I mean
10:55<Phazorx>osai you still have same issue?
10:55<Osai>removing the static grf's helped
10:56<Maedhros>Chris82: nope, it's been there for a long time
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11:03[~]dihedral is on his way home now....
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11:07<Maedhros>Phazorx: the reason the game is hanging is because that particular combination of parameters has given you a choice of 10 houses, none of which are 1x1 tiles (except the statues, but they're special anyway)
11:08<Maedhros>i don't know if that's our bug or ttrs3's yet though
11:09<Chris82>there's a potential bug in TTRS3 ? I use it all the time in MP games
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11:09<Phazorx>Maedhros: i see
11:10<Phazorx>i figured it had to do with it
11:10<Phazorx>but i played with params a bit as well
11:10<Phazorx>howevr it only gave different timeframes
11:10<Phazorx>but no stable solution
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11:13<@peter1138>my quick & dirty autosignals works :D
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11:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10414 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: the network protocol check for required newgrfs sent static newgrfs too.
11:14<Phazorx>thank Rubidium :)
11:15<@Belugas>peter1138 is not lead dev for nothing :)
11:15<Chris82>peter1138: .diff file anywhere already? :D
11:18<Osai>thanks Rubidium :))
11:22<@peter1138>not yet ;)
11:31<Chris82>I don't understand this bug, when I take the r5435 version of the patch it works totally fine
11:31<Chris82>when I upgrade the source to r104xx and replace the int32 with CommandCost it doesn't work anymore
11:32<Chris82>the int32 to CommandCost is the only change tho
11:32<Chris82>I mean the signal completion still works with CommandCost but it lets me build forever no matter how much money I have
11:32<@peter1138>other changes probably
11:33<Chris82>hmmm well I can't find it, this patch doesn't even have a hundread lines
11:37<Chris82>does total_cost += ret; and total_cost.AddCost(ret); do the same thing?
11:39<NukeBuster>yes they do...
11:39<NukeBuster>it works the same as in the diagonal demolish/level land patch
11:39<Chris82>then the change in source causing this bug must be somewhere in the original code which is not touched by the patch
11:40<Chris82>The bug here is different from the digonal patch tho, there's everything fixed already
11:40<NukeBuster>is money a commandcost aswell?
11:41<Chris82>I am not sure
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11:41<Chris82>but the "test" for money which we have in the diagonal patch shouldn't be necessary for the signal patch anyway as peter said before
11:42<Chris82>I don't want to fix the problem by adding stuff that shouldn't be needed
11:42<NukeBuster>i agree to that...
11:43<NukeBuster>do you have a patch file?
11:43<Chris82> check for the changes in rail_cmd.cpp
11:44<Chris82>there are minimal changes from the original patch code like int32 is now CommandCost and the above change in the total_cost line but except that it's the same as in r5435
11:45<NukeBuster>btw.... you have the old diagonal land levelling patch...
11:46<Chris82>uhm? but it's working correctly afaik
11:46<NukeBuster>do you have explosions on each corner?? ;)
11:47<Chris82>not for diagonal demolishing
11:47<Chris82>did you fix that?
11:48<NukeBuster>yep... also there was an estimated cost problem...
11:48<Chris82>yeah but I was told that the estimates are supposed to be higher than the actual costs since it can't be correctly estimated
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11:49<NukeBuster>it stayed 0 AFAIK
11:49<Chris82>ah I have that fixed
11:50<Chris82>the cost variable was only available within one if clause not to the function
11:50<Chris82>that's why it returned 0 all the time
11:51<Chris82>so except that diagonal demolishing only causes 2 explosions instead of 4 everything should be fixed in the IN
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11:51<NukeBuster>still looking through your code
11:54<Chris82> < this is a standalone version which has the same bug
11:54<Chris82>so at least I can be sure it's no conflict with another patch I added that's causing this bug
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11:55<Maedhros>Chris82: the changes in command.cpp deliberately disable the money check
11:56<Chris82>oh let me check what's changed there :)
11:56<Maedhros>and that appears to have been done because CompleteAutoSignals is badly written and doesn't take (flags & DC_EXEC) into account
11:57|-|KUDr_afk changed nick to KUDr
11:59<Chris82> (cmd & 0xFF) == CMD_BUILD_SIGNAL_TRACK ||
11:59<Chris82>you mean this line?
12:04<Sacro>if you share orders, are timetables shared too?
12:04<NukeBuster>i'll aplly
12:07<Biff>what are timetables?
12:08<toresbe>So does anyone but me have problems with black areas in the graphics?
12:08<Chris82>interesting, now that you say that toresbe I got this once today in a very old build
12:08<toresbe>(ie. is it a problem known by someone who can better describe and debug it?
12:08<Chris82>I've never seen such a black area before
12:08<toresbe>This happens on the most recent build for me.
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12:09<Chris82>when you do a screenshot and open the picture do you see the clack areas on the screenshot?
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12:10<toresbe>I'll check.
12:10[~]toresbe builds the latest
12:10<Chris82>if you see it it might be the game if you don't see it on the screenshot I would guess it's your graphics card/driver
12:11<toresbe>Chris82: It doesn't happen with the released one.
12:13<Chris82>then maybe it was a bug in the specific "release" you have used
12:13<Chris82>Maedhros you are god!!!! :D
12:13<Chris82>I have no idea why these two lines were added in command.cpp but removing them fixed the bug :D:D:D:D
12:13<Chris82>and auto complete still works flawlessly
12:14<@peter1138>18:11 < Chris82> I have no idea why these two lines were added in command.cpp but removing them fixed the bug :D:D:D:D
12:14<Sacro>we need timetables to auto-seperate trains
12:14<@peter1138>cos many patch authors don't know what they're doing ;)
12:15<hylje>hence why we get so few patches into mainline
12:15<Biff>toresbe: dont play on those old computers ;)
12:15<@peter1138>mainline :o
12:15<@peter1138>it's trunk, fool
12:15<Sacro>i like mainline actually
12:15<@peter1138>mainlining is some drugs thing
12:16<hylje>we build mainlines over at coop :(
12:16<Sacro>peter1138: it distingushes it from a branch :p
12:16<hylje>well, trunk is pretty much the same as mainline in most contexts
12:16<hylje>both can have brances
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12:16<Chris82>actually mainline is even better, because it definitely is not part of a tree :D
12:17<Chris82>tree with green leaves
12:17<hylje>subversion is a tree structure
12:17<Chris82>anyway me is happy now because this stupid bug is fixed once again due to your fabulous help guys :D
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12:18<Chris82>r1 = root, 0.5.2 = branch, r10414 = trunk and the tree is all together?
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12:20<@peter1138>right, back to my signal auto complete implementation
12:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10415 /trunk/src/ (41 files in 3 dirs): -Revert (r10403), Fix (r10323): 'message from company' test must use {STRING1}, so pass it the correct params
12:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10416 /trunk/src/lang/ (norwegian_nynorsk.txt slovak.txt traditional_chinese.txt):
12:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-03 19:20:58
12:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 3 fixed by pollux (3)
12:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovak - 3 fixed by lengyel (3)
12:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 6 fixed by xbddc (6)
12:22<Chris82>NukeBuster: How did you make diagonal demolishing have 4 explosions?
12:23<NukeBuster>using the fx and fy created in the patch...
12:23<NukeBuster>it's just a few lines actually
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12:24<Chris82>do you have the .diff uploaded somewhere?
12:25<Chris82>I just update my IN thread and would like to include the updated code
12:25<NukeBuster>yeah its on the forum...
12:25<@Belugas>NukeBuster, how difficult would it be to have an explosion in the middle of the selection?
12:25<NukeBuster>i wanted to copy you the spesific lines
12:25<Chris82>what's the middle of 4 tiles?
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12:26<@Belugas>4 tiles make a square/rectangle
12:26<NukeBuster>@Belugas Easier than on every corner... but less fancy i gess.
12:26<@Belugas>at center between the four tiles
12:26<@Belugas>just wanted to know...
12:26<@Belugas>it's not a demand ;)
12:27<Dutchtransporttycoon>who know a airport with more then 1 runway and more then 1 load/uynload area?
12:27<Noldo>how do you count load/unload areas?
12:28<Eddi|zuHause2>Dutchtransporttycoon: you mean in reality?
12:28<Dutchtransporttycoon>ow srry
12:28<Dutchtransporttycoon>i have summmervakantion and i i' a little lazie so i
12:28<Dutchtransporttycoon>no in the game
12:28<@Belugas>intercontinental has 4 runways, iirc
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>all airports have multiple gates
12:29<Dutchtransporttycoon>if i want to see a real airport with more than 1 load/unload era i could go to schiphol
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>and all bigger than city airport have multiple runways
12:29<Dutchtransporttycoon>i now but who knowas a grf
12:29<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't think newgrf airports exist
12:29<Dutchtransporttycoon>i' srry my englisch typing is not so good . i' dutch you now and i' 12 jr
12:30<NukeBuster>@Chris82 See for explosion code only
12:30<@Belugas>newgrf airports are not available yet. Someone is working on it, form time to time
12:30<Dutchtransporttycoon>but i but i have seen a screenshot of it in this forum !
12:30<Eddi|zuHause2>may i express my doubts that your dutch typing would be better?
12:30<NukeBuster>hope you can pick out the right lines ;)
12:30<Dutchtransporttycoon>of aurse, bit
12:31<Chris82>thanks Nuke :)
12:31<@Belugas>Dutchtransporttycoon, what you've seen on the forums are real airports, but they do only exists on Richk67's machine. Code is not in trunk nor release
12:31<Dutchtransporttycoon>but i can type good Englisch normaly but i can' see what is typ
12:31<toresbe>Biff: hah
12:31<@Belugas>well... real ottd airports..
12:32<Dutchtransporttycoon>In can' see here what i' typing
12:32<Dutchtransporttycoon>so i make a lot mistakes
12:32<NukeBuster>hmm... other irc client perhaps?
12:32<Dutchtransporttycoon>but in Holland we say : BOEINEND !
12:33<Dutchtransporttycoon>bOEIEND !
12:33<Dutchtransporttycoon> that' what we say if we can' care
12:33<Dutchtransporttycoon>Who wan's to learn al little bit Dutch?
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12:34<Dutchtransporttycoon>I can teach you to say goodbye and hello and stuff
12:34<@Belugas>no one, i guess
12:34<Dutchtransporttycoon>next time better
12:34<NukeBuster>wouldn't have too ;)
12:34<Dutchtransporttycoon>that' ok.
12:34<Dutchtransporttycoon>dammed, antoher mistake of typing !
12:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10417 /trunk/src/lang/ (norwegian_nynorsk.txt slovak.txt traditional_chinese.txt): -Fix: r10416 partly reverted r10415
12:35<Eddi|zuHause2>ther are already too many dutch people in here anyway :p
12:35<Sacro>please can you tell the game to stop putting error messages on the bottom left
12:35<Sacro>its impossible to see when peopel are talking on multiplayer
12:35<NukeBuster>wasn't that a patch option?
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12:36<Thomas[NL]>only duration
12:36<NukeBuster>i recall seeing that somewhere... or does ttdpatch have that?
12:37<Eddi|zuHause2>shouldn't error messages be printed on top of the chat display?
12:37<Dutchtransporttycoon>who nows a good site where i can get some insparations for Open TTD?
12:37<NukeBuster> ;)
12:37<Thomas[NL]>visit the screenshots section of tt-forums
12:40<Chris82>shouldn't STRING be STRING1 @r10417 ?
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12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>never use STRINGx in translations
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>only in english.txt
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12:43<Chris82>ok :)
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12:49<@orudge>a bug!
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12:51<@orudge>track upgrading somebody else's track in multiplayer = boom
12:51<@orudge>or so it seems
12:51<hylje>that should be beyond obvious
12:51<Chris82>oh really? let me try :D
12:51<@orudge>maybe it's only in certain circumstances...
12:51<Chris82>hmmm doesn't work
12:52[~]orudge is currently listening to Tomcraft - Loneliness (1:53/3:34 @ 256 kbps) -
12:52<@orudge>wrong window
12:53<+glx>orudge: should be fixed in r10415
12:53<@peter1138>ah, yes
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13:03<Chris82>>>> <<< finally new ChrisIN with the known bugs fixed :D
13:03<Chris82>also added Smovious Chat Patch and Bridge Dialogue Fix
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13:07<stillunknown>Chris82: I hope for your sake that you have a local svn server or a svk copy.
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13:11<Chris82>uhm I have no SVN Server sorry, I only have two copies of trunk on my HDD
13:11<Chris82>one for original trunk compilation and one for IN development
13:11<Chris82>I plan to install a SVN server after my exams tho
13:11<Chris82>have no time for that right now :p
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13:11<Rubidium>svk? That's a waste of precious hdd space ;)
13:12<lev400>im looking for GRF Maker?
13:12<Chris82>well as long as it doesn't waste more than 2,5 TB :D
13:12<stillunknown>Rubidium: how so?
13:13<Chris82>lev400: this is what I find
13:14<lev400>tram set not work in openttd?
13:14<@peter1138>not in 0.5.x
13:14<Rubidium>a clean svn checkout is already like 100 MB, the svn repository itself is 500 MB, and a git repo with all changes (to trunk) since ~ r5000 is about 90 MB
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13:14<lev400>or this Extended cargo schema ECS project?
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13:15<stillunknown>lev400: trams are not 0.5.x
13:15<Rubidium>as SVK effectively clones the whole svn repository *and* you need to have a checkout of it, you'll use 600 MB, whereas the git repo would use < 100 MB
13:15<lev400>i c
13:16<stillunknown>newcargos is in trunk, but newindustries is not
13:16<stillunknown>So ECS won't work.
13:16<lev400>ah i c
13:16<lev400>and any plans to get it to work? :X
13:17<Smoovious><Chris82> also added Smovious Chat Patch <--- \o/
13:17<Smoovious>did you look at the mail subsidies one too?
13:17<lev400>i first though openttd was best choice but ive been looking at some things and it seams maybe i should get ttd with ttdpatch to try some things out
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13:18<lev400>i was loveing this untill it got err..
13:18<Chris82>yup Smoovious, but I didn't have time to test the mail subsidies yet :)
13:18<Chris82>I programmed so much today already I have to do math homework now :p
13:19<@peter1138>woo, my signal autocomplete can now complete a circle
13:20<Chris82>also added Smovious Chat Patch < was that on IRC? because in the thread I wrote it correctly :D
13:20<stillunknown>Is there a specific reason why SOME_ENUMByte is used instead of a machine native int?
13:20<@peter1138>hmm, whoops, it doesn't change the signal direction :D
13:20<Chris82>cool :) would be great if your work makes it into trunk peter, one patch less I need to maintain in the IN *g*
13:21<Rubidium>stillunknown: because native enum has undefined size and native int makes the saveload stuff more complex than needed
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13:21<stillunknown>Rubidium: Why not make a DirectionInt for example
13:22<stillunknown>I did that for one or two, and i can see the difference already.
13:22<Rubidium>stillunknown: because directions are stored in the savegame
13:22<Smoovious>yeah, was on IRC
13:23<stillunknown>(i switched to DirectionByte and TrackByte because i wanted to pass variables as reference, so i changed several instances in a often used function to their *Byte equivilants, which had negative effects, using int instead of byte improved performance again).
13:23<lev400>so no simple way to make some new graphics without GRF Maker?
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13:25<stillunknown>Rubidium: Don't underestimate the effects of these things when calling functions a few billion times each hour)
13:26<Rubidium>stillunknown: making stuff native int without the proper savegame knowledge is asking for trouble
13:26<stillunknown>But is there no way to have these things downscaled at savetime?
13:27<Thomas[NL]>lev400, you can try png codec search for it on the forums. It is different from a .grf though
13:27<Rubidium>yes, but it requires a rethink of (parts of) the savegame loading/saving mechanism
13:28<lev400>i have the gfx i just want to pack them into a grf?
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13:28<stillunknown>Rubidium: any chance this will happen soonish?
13:28<Rubidium>depends on what you call soonish
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13:29<Thomas[NL]>lev400, in what format do you have the graphics?
13:29<stillunknown>Within a month or two.
13:29<Thomas[NL]>are they in the ttd palette colours??
13:29<@peter1138>whoops, infinite loop :)
13:30<lev400>not yet no
13:30<stillunknown>Rubidium: Within a month or two.
13:31<@peter1138>crap, this detects forks but not merges :(
13:31<Rubidium>stillunknown: maybe, but what are the (real) performance benefits besides the increment in memory usage?
13:32<stillunknown>Data types being in the machine native format, reducing the amount of instructions needed to process it.
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13:33<Thomas[NL]>you don't have to convert them to the ttd-palette with pngcodec, search the forum for it?
13:34<Rubidium>stillunknown: which results in... 0.0001% increase in speed?
13:34<stillunknown>Rubidium: I noticed it while profiling.
13:35<stillunknown>One function consumed 1% more of the total.
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13:35<stillunknown>But that function is called a lot.
13:36<@peter1138>you know, cpus do operations on bytes, words and dwords directly...
13:36<Rubidium>such a deviation isn't statistical important; I've seen lots of cases where the usage was different with such a degree with several profiling runs
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13:38<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
13:38<stillunknown>Rubidium: i will do more runs to confirm (or not).
13:40<stillunknown>peter1138: Do you have reading material which will make that plausible?
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13:42<caladan>oh come on, optimizing too early is a bad thing
13:42<caladan>int should be faster than byte, but when it comes to big arrays... byte is more efficient
13:43<@peter1138>as stillunknown is working purely on an optimisation patch, that can hardly be called optimising early
13:44<caladan>kk, i agree, but maybe there are more important things
13:44<@peter1138>optimising 'better-late-than-never' some might say :)
13:45<stillunknown>I think the comparison between byte's and int's is causing the difference.
13:45<@peter1138>sure, but if that is what he wants to do, i'm not going to stop him :)
13:45<caladan>comparing int is just cmp
13:45<caladan>with bytes you get addidional and probably
13:46<@peter1138>mov ax, 0x11111111
13:46<@peter1138>mov cl, 0x11
13:46<@peter1138>cmp al, cl
13:46<caladan>should work
13:46<@peter1138>no ands...
13:47<@peter1138>not that gcc is necessarily that clever, of course...
13:47<@peter1138>actually that should've be 0x00000011
13:47[~]peter1138 ponders
13:48<caladan>hmm, sorry, im used to CPUs where registers are whole thing and cannot be accesed by parts :D
13:48<@peter1138>like arm, yum
13:48<caladan>but arm has some other nice features...
13:49<caladan>like all conditional ops and built in shifting
13:49<@peter1138> int32_t a = 0x00000011;
13:49<@peter1138> 8048385: c7 45 f4 11 00 00 00 movl $0x11,0xfffffff4(%ebp)
13:49<@peter1138> int8_t b = 0x11;
13:49<@peter1138> 804838c: c6 45 fb 11 movb $0x11,0xfffffffb(%ebp)
13:49<@peter1138> if (a == b) {
13:50<@peter1138> 8048390: 0f be 45 fb movsbl 0xfffffffb(%ebp),%eax
13:50<@peter1138> 8048394: 3b 45 f4 cmp 0xfffffff4(%ebp),%eax
13:50<stillunknown>For the moment i'll leave the difference to statistical flukes, since the first try is not exactly encouraging, sorry for all the fuss.
13:51<@peter1138>using register is used eax & edx, but both longs
13:52<@peter1138>s/is/vars it/
13:52<caladan>so using ints will do difference in the lenght of code
13:53<caladan>but now it's about accessing memory
13:53<@peter1138>and if i optimize it it gets compiled away ;)
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>[2007-07-03 20:46] <peter1138> mov ax, 0x11111111
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>[2007-07-03 20:46] <peter1138> mov cl, 0x11
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>[2007-07-03 20:46] <peter1138> cmp al, cl
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i think that will fail with signed integers
13:54<@peter1138>it's pseudo code anyway
13:55<Wolf01>a member of my forum reported this error: for nightly 10411 when he tries to remove competitor's roadbits with dynamite
13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but still, al might not have the same sign-bit as ax
13:55<@peter1138>yes. don't do it.
13:55<@peter1138>solution: use r10417
13:55<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: should be fixed already
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13:56[~]Bjarni wonders why Sacro is always looking for him
13:56<@Bjarni>am I some sort of role model to him or something?
13:57[~]Sacro hugs Bjarni
13:57<@Bjarni>nahh, can't be.... he would never reach my level anyway :p
13:57<@peter1138>ah, bjarni
13:57<@Bjarni>it's a gay thing
13:57<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: there was some stuff about OSX desyncs
13:57<@Bjarni>Sacro: I'm not into that
13:57<@peter1138>Bjarni... shut up
13:57<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: OSX is perfect... it's the rest of the world that's off
13:57<stillunknown>Is it right that inlining also has the effect that variables are not copied?
13:58<@Bjarni>anyway did anybody figure out any reason why the desyncs occurs?
13:58<caladan>well, at least if they were in use
13:58<Sacro>Bjarni: but you run OSX
13:58<@peter1138>stillunknown: depends really
13:58<@Bjarni>Sacro: I know
13:58<Eddi|zuHause2>stillunknown: it might optimise the call-by-value stuff away
13:59<@peter1138>if the inline function changes a value (but only internally) then it has to. i guess.
14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>the compiler has to prove that it does not cause new side effects
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14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>but the main overhead of function calls is the saving/restoring of registers, not the parameter copying
14:02<@Bjarni>so about the desyncs... did you guys figure anything out last night or today?
14:02<@Bjarni>I went as far as "it happened"... not really useful
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>especially in RISC processors you often have an awful lot of registers
14:03<@peter1138>Bjarni: if you give me your mac, i'll try to diagnose it
14:03<Rubidium>Bjarni: we're still busy with it
14:04<stillunknown>It's just a give N variables output and return something.
14:04<stillunknown>Also, what's best, if (A && B) {} if (A) { if(B) {} if (C) {}}?
14:04<stillunknown>providing ofcource A is not a hugely expensive check.
14:05<Rubidium>stillunknown: if A = false, then B isn't evaluated
14:05<Rubidium>so it effectively becomes if (A) { if (B) {} }
14:05<Rubidium>so it shouldn't matter a bit
14:06<Eddi|zuHause2>you can be almost certain the compiler shuffles that stuff around anyway :)
14:06<Frostregen>!seen skidd13
14:07<_42_>Frostregen, skidd13 ( was last seen parting #openttdcoop 29 minutes ago (03.07. 18:37), after spending 1 hour 27 minutes there.
14:10<sHELL>still working on the desync bug?
14:11<@Bjarni>looks like it
14:12<caladan>compilier does resolve those A&B to two jumps, but it doesnt know which of these conditions is more probable
14:12<caladan>then sometimes it matters which comes first
14:12<@peter1138>A will always come first
14:13<caladan>that's it. and if P(A) > P(B) it's better to do if (B&A)
14:13<@peter1138>yes, assuming B doesn't rely on A changing stuff first, heh
14:14<@peter1138>but taht much was obvious
14:14<Eddi|zuHause2>caladan: no, C(++) has defined to first evaluate A, if it is true then evaluate B (lazy evaluation)
14:15<Eddi|zuHause2>it cannot change the order
14:15<@peter1138>he said that, heh
14:15<caladan>right, peter said it before. i mean that programmer can do it by hand sometimes improving code
14:16|-|smoovi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:16<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but that is not what the question was about
14:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10418 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: implement/resurrect the industry production flags.
14:18<@peter1138>just finished a recompile :p
14:21<caladan>have you ever seen compilier using leave on x86??
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14:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10419 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10418): do not compare bitmasks with HASBIT. Thanks to Maedhros for spotting this.
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14:49<Tlustoch>Can someone tell me how do I make japanese town names work? I have loaded grf file in the menu but then there's no selection of japanese town names in game options.
14:49<Rubidium>Tlustoch: what version are you using?
14:50<Rubidium>that doesn't support townnames loaded from newgrfs
14:50<Tlustoch>So what shall I do?
14:50<Rubidium>0.6.0 will, but that isn't going to be released soon, however the "nightlies" do support them
14:51<Rubidium>"nightlies" are daily snapshots of "trunk", which is (at the moment) the development branch for 0.6
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14:52<Tlustoch>How do I install that on gentoo?
14:53<caladan>download archive with nigtly version
14:53<caladan>then unpack
14:53<caladan>./configure in the dir
14:53<caladan>then make and here you go
14:54<Rubidium>isn't there some ebuild for trunk somewhere?
14:54<caladan>haven't seen, in plain portage just openttd-0.5.2
14:55<Maedhros>i wrote one at one point, but i think i abandoned i
14:57<Phazorx>Maedhros that TTRS bug - any idea about it
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14:58<Tlustoch>I also used japan buildings but I could not find any japan style building on the map.
14:58<Tlustoch>Is it ok?
14:58<Maedhros>Tlustoch: again, not in 0.5.2
14:58<+glx>same as townnames
14:59<Maedhros>Phazorx: not at the moment, but i suspect you'll be fine if you get rid of the second parameter
14:59<Tlustoch>But landscape and trees worked ok..
14:59<caladan>Tlustoch: try that nightly build, it's cutting edge
14:59<Phazorx>Maedhros: we are doing some tests for other issues and it runs on same map with ttrs enabled 25 years in future
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14:59<Phazorx>caladan: it's bleeding ratehr than cutting atm :)
15:01<Maedhros>Phazorx: yes, it's to do with forcing the 1950-80s era buildings, so you'll be fine if the date matches the era
15:02<Phazorx>same buildigns are forced
15:02<Phazorx>it's "0 2"
15:02<Maedhros>i know
15:02<Phazorx>i gues sit matters what are you forcing on top of
15:03<Maedhros>but currently it seems that even if you force 1950s era buildings they're still only available from 1950
15:03<Maedhros>so playing in 1930 == no available buildings == infinite loop
15:04<Phazorx>i see
15:04<Phazorx>in that case forcing is bad
15:04<Phazorx>sad... i saw wanted to avoid having skyscrapers
15:04<Phazorx>*I so
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15:05<@peter1138>hmm, ttrs3 or openttd bug? heh
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15:07<Maedhros>dunno yet :)
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15:19<Tlustoch>with nightly it's ok, thanks
15:19<Tlustoch>What's game starting year in original game?
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15:27<sHELL>... someone tell me
15:27<sHELL>how come openTTD is so adictive
15:27<Phazorx>it's good?
15:27<sHELL>hmmm yeah...
15:28<sHELL>good point
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15:28<Phazorx>if it would be bad it probably would have been even mroe addictive
15:29<Phazorx>hylje join #desync plz
15:36<Chicago_R_A>Still going in circles, Peter? :)
15:36<@peter1138>nope :)
15:36<Chicago_R_A>Cool - congrats
15:36<hylje>infinite loop
15:36<Maedhros>hmmm. it seems we're wrong rather than ttrs3, but fixing it will be a bitch
15:36<hylje>i recall that crashed the MiniIN signal completer
15:37<@peter1138>doesn't crash mine
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15:37<@peter1138>/* Prevent possible loops */
15:37<@peter1138>if (tile == start_tile) break;
15:37<@peter1138>does the job ;)
15:38<Chicago_R_A>Nice fix-- well done
15:41<@Belugas>how come Maedhros?
15:44<@peter1138>hmm, better check it works for the old method :)
15:44[~]peter1138 suspects recompiling will help, though
15:45<Maedhros>Belugas: Csaboka resets all the house years in one big block, but apparently house 144 is never defined, so TownHouseChangeInfo refuses to set the house dates for any of them
15:46<@peter1138>that's a bugger...
15:46<@peter1138>you could always change the FOR_EACH_OBJECT macro
15:46<@peter1138>into something nicer at the same time
15:47<hylje>peter1138: isnt there some redundancy? you check for tile == end_tile twice
15:47<@peter1138>hylje: no i don't
15:47<@peter1138>start tile :)
15:47<hylje>you just moved it around
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15:48<@peter1138>but damn, ctrl is used for toggle signal type when dragging
15:48<@peter1138>i never knew it did that...
15:49<Phazorx>peter1138: it's a perk
15:49<@peter1138>nt really
15:49<@peter1138>it costs the same as removing and rebuilding them too :o
15:50<@peter1138>so... how the feck should i enable autorail... i wanted to use ctrl :/
15:50<Phazorx>ctrl on a tile with no signal?
15:50<Chicago_R_A>I'm guessing a simple GUI is out of the question?
15:50<@peter1138>no, then you can't set what signal direction to use
15:51<@peter1138>Chicago_R_A: at this stage i want it just a simple toggle
15:51<Chicago_R_A>fair enough
15:52<Chicago_R_A>Maybe a yes/no pop-up.... so if you highlight 10+ consecutive sections of track a pop-up simply asks if you want to continue beyond the 10 squares?
15:52<Chicago_R_A>not sure if that is any easier, though
15:52<@peter1138>not really :)
15:52<Chicago_R_A>I'll be shuttin' my yapper, then :)
15:52<@peter1138>harder in fact
15:53<@Belugas>Maedhros : could it be a bump by overrides? Just out of nowhere...
15:53<@peter1138>does anyone USE ctrl-drag for replacing signal types?
15:53<Phazorx>i used it few times
15:53<Chicago_R_A>Until a few min ago, I didn't even know that feature was there - so my vote goes to "no"
15:53<Phazorx>not many people even know about it tho
15:53<@peter1138>i didn't.
15:54<Maedhros>Belugas: unfortunately it looks like ttrs3 doesn't define house ids 144 to 148
15:54<Maedhros>god knows why...
15:54<@peter1138>grf bug :D
15:55<@Belugas>ask GOD :)
15:55<Maedhros>"If you try to modify a house ID whose property 08 isn't set, your request is ignored, but not reported as an error, either."
15:55<Maedhros>i suppose it's open to interpretation whether it's our bug or the grf's :)
15:56<@peter1138>we ignore the house block instead of just the id. hmm.
15:57<@peter1138>damn this ctrl key!
15:57<@peter1138>damn this stupid feature!
15:57<Phazorx>peter dblclick ?
15:57<Chicago_R_A>Peter - can you tap into the whole double-click ?
15:57<@Belugas>their houses are contiguous in the array. why ours are not? are they too?
15:57<Phazorx>and continue in both directions
15:57<Chicago_R_A>you win, Phazorx
15:57<@peter1138>double click on what? heh
15:57<@peter1138>hmm, ctrl-double-click
15:57<Phazorx>on signal
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15:58<@peter1138>Belugas: fast forward? :o
15:58<Chicago_R_A>Clearly this calls for Ctrl-Alt-Del ;)
15:58<@peter1138>hmm, possible temporarily until a gui...
15:58<Chicago_R_A>Sorry, couldn't resist.
15:59<Maedhros>Belugas: hmm? ours are too, but only after using ::SetEntitySpec on them :)
16:00<MarkMc>Is there any goaround so you can remove industries? :P
16:01<@Belugas>crap :(
16:01<Chicago_R_A>Magic Buldozer?
16:02<@Belugas>but but but but...
16:02<@Belugas>i should have known that...
16:03<@peter1138>Belugas: lol, yes, shift is good for cost estimation ;)
16:03<Phazorx>what's wrong with dblclick ?
16:03<@peter1138>double click is not supported there...
16:04<@Belugas>and it's tab for fastforward ;)
16:04<@peter1138>Belugas: not in a debug build
16:04<@Belugas>and on this joyfull note, i salute you all, going home
16:04<@peter1138>good night
16:04<Maedhros>g'night, Belugas
16:05<@Belugas>you too all :)
16:05<@peter1138>Maedhros: tell me how to activate this!
16:05[~]peter1138 ponders reassigning ctrl
16:08<@peter1138>really, who uses it like it is?
16:09<Chicago_R_A>Good ol' Alt-F4? :)
16:09<Maedhros>control + drag? i don't
16:10<Maedhros>or at least, i'm usually surprised when i do it accidentally
16:12<MarkMc>Chicago_R_A: Hmm, is that consider as a cheat?
16:12<Chicago_R_A>the bulldozer? yes
16:13<NukeBuster>i tried the old signal auto complete, and tried to use it. By ctrl dragging...
16:14<MarkMc>Oh, okey
16:14<NukeBuster>i also never knew it was used to change signals
16:14<@peter1138>i thought it was a bug at first...
16:14<MarkMc>Anyway, can I use it when I networkplay too? :)
16:14<@peter1138>hmm, maybe it is? ;)
16:14<@peter1138>MarkMc: nope
16:14<@peter1138>MarkMc: also be aware that industries and towns etc can use it is
16:15<@peter1138>so they can build on your track
16:15<@peter1138>so, uh, don't leave it on
16:15<MarkMc>That's NOT good
16:15<MarkMc>Aha, you can turn it off to :D
16:15<Chicago_R_A>Yea, good point, Peter...
16:16<Chicago_R_A>I fought a town off from destroying a temperate bank over and over again until I figured that one out.
16:16<@peter1138>ooh, a bug
16:16<Maedhros>it's probably safest to use it along with build while paused
16:17<MarkMc>Thanks everyone ^^
16:17<Chicago_R_A>Good luck
16:17<MarkMc>But it didn't help me then I always play over network then the AI:s are so stupid :>
16:18<@peter1138>right, auto signals should not: pass existing signals, pass junctions, pass stations. anything else?
16:19<@peter1138>they can go through tunnels, and over bridges
16:19<@peter1138>there is no trickery to get the signals to line up with the exits or whatever, though
16:19<@peter1138>you can sort that out manually ;)
16:19<@peter1138>makes it a lot simpler
16:20<Chicago_R_A>jeez... you're asking a lot of us, Peter
16:20<Rubidium>who knows a tool to do boundary checking on non-malloced memory?
16:21<Chicago_R_A>So if I have it set to "every 8 tiles" it will count the tunnel and bridge "tiles" in the 8 and simply continue using that pattern?
16:22<Chicago_R_A>Cool. That makes the most sense.
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause2>i was under the impression it just did (x+y)%distance, rather than counting anything
16:24<@peter1138>count as in include
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i mean, this would not care at all wether there were wormholes inbetween
16:26<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
16:26<@peter1138>one other possible thing... don't remove signals that are red?
16:27<Eddi|zuHause2>what has that to do with autosignals?
16:27<Chicago_R_A>Does this overwirite all existing signals in the segment?
16:28<@peter1138>you can use autosignals for removing signals too
16:28<@peter1138>Chicago_R_A: when placing signals, it stops at the first signal it encounters
16:28<Eddi|zuHause2>oh, btw, with auto-semaphores now there is not much reason for ctrl+drag switching signal types
16:29<Maedhros>peter1138: would you say this is better or worse than the current FOR_EACH_OBJECT?
16:30<Maedhros>(although that == 0 should be == NULL)
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16:31<Maedhros>housespec, stationspec, etc
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16:37<@peter1138>Maedhros: it's definitely better. it's got parameters for a start...
16:37<Chicago_R_A>Is that a roller-coaster?
16:37<@peter1138>it's OpenRollerCoasterTycoonDeluxe!
16:38<Chicago_R_A>YES :)
16:38<Chicago_R_A>can you post pics of OpenRollerCoasterTycoonDeluxe highways?
16:38<@peter1138>just a little stress testing...
16:38<Phazorx>peter1138: it would be nice to be able to make it more greedy
16:38<Phazorx>in case if signal can net be placed where necessary for maintaing intervals
16:39<Phazorx>it should place one in a way that signal distance will be less
16:39<Phazorx>not more
16:39<@peter1138>22:17 <@peter1138> there is no trickery to get the signals to line up with the exits or whatever, though
16:39<@peter1138>22:17 <@peter1138> you can sort that out manually ;)
16:39<@peter1138>same applies
16:39<Phazorx>dont have to lane them up just put on previous and nex avalibale tile
16:40<Phazorx>otherwize it will loose usability aspects for any none straight network
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16:41<Phazorx>cuz "fire and forget" mode turns into "click and check thoroughly" :)
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16:42<@peter1138>how about. no :p
16:43[~]Phazorx is goign to go cry in some corner
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16:46[~]Maedhros is off to bed
16:46<Maedhros>good night
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16:59<@peter1138>woo, found a lockup
16:59<Thomas[NL]>hmm, setting the production in the scen editor by clicking the number and entering a number is totally broken
17:00<Phazorx> why thre is no xUSSR trainset?
17:00<@peter1138>Phazorx: cos you didn't draw it?
17:01<Phazorx>highly unlike that it'll be worthy one if i make it
17:01<Phazorx>not quite my area
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18:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10420 /trunk/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj -Fix [MSVC]: Disabled 'Treat Warnings As Errors' for VC8
18:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10421 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix [MSVC]: suppress some code analyzer warnings for VC8
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18:17<Sacro>@seen Smoovious
18:17<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Smoovious was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 54 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Smoovious> yeah, was on IRC
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18:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10422 /trunk/src/airport.h: -Fix: VC8 Code Analyzer warning C6297: Arithmetic overflow: 32-bit value is shifted, then cast to 64-bit value. Results might not be an expected value
18:25<Sacro>hiya kuDr
18:27<Sacro>we have been discussing newsignals more :p
18:29<KUDr>i have enough work now
18:29<Sacro>hehe :)
18:30<KUDr>heh: warning C6326: potential comparison of a constant with another constant
18:30<Sacro>might as well just nop that
18:31<KUDr>it is product of tepmplates
18:31<KUDr>it is constant
18:31<KUDr>but taken from template argument
18:31<Sacro>i don't get templates :(
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>templates are fun
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>if classes are runtime virtualisation, templates are compiletime virtualisation
19:05<BamBam>For all people who loved the signalGUI patch, i've updated it to r10419:
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19:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10423 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: -Fix [YAPF, r10301]: INVALID_TRACKDIR causing buffer overrun leading to desync in MP game (many thanks Rubidium)
19:18|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
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19:34<BamBam>? there
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10424 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h:
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix : Toy shop seems to be working exactly like power stations, water tower and banks, i.e: they require cargo but do nothing with it.
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: So, make it an INDUSTRYLIFE_BLACK_HOLE, exactly like the above mentioned industries.
19:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks to glx who spotted, and Csaboka who confirmed it could very well be a CS bug.
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19:54<Sacro>hey Smoovious
19:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10425 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10418): do not compare bitmasks with HASBIT. Strike two. Forgotten code :)
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20:29[~]Sacro shrugs
20:29[~]Smoovious grins.
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20:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10426 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: Activate the reset of industry/tiles mapping upon initialization or new game.
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21:29<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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21:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10427 /trunk/src/misc/str.hpp: -Fix: snprintf behaves differently in gcc than in VC causing unreadable artifacts in output. Now CStrT::AddFormatL() should behave correctly also when compiled by gcc (Rubidium)
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21:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10428 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: some more VC code analyzer warnings disabled
21:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10429 /trunk/src/rail.h: -Fix: VC8 Code Analyzer warning: buffer overrun
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23:00<Gekko>where is 0.6?!
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23:20<Smoovious>it hasn't been invented yet
23:21<Noldo>it's hanging in the air
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23:50<Gekko>when will you complete it
23:50<Gekko>screw 0.6, I want 3.0!
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 04 00:00:00 2007