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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-08

---Logopened Sun Jul 08 00:00:07 2007
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03:40<Wolf01>hello
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03:40<Noldo>hello
03:41|-|Chris82 [~chris@p579E1179.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
03:41<Chris82>hi :)
03:41<Chris82>is MP_UNMOVABLE the variable for a piece of land that you bought?
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03:48<@peter1138>Chris82: er, that is not a variable
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03:57<Chris82>yeah I mean name of the tile or however it is called
03:57<Chris82>whatever*
03:58<Smoovious>o/
03:58<@peter1138>type
03:58<Smoovious>wave
03:58<Smoovious>:P
03:58<Chris82>like MP_HOUSE is a house, but what is an owned tile?
03:58<@peter1138>unmovable, yes
03:58<Chris82>ah good :)
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04:02<Smoovious>Chris82... did you have any issues adding my subsidies patch?
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04:11<Rubidium>but not all unmovable tiles are "owned" tiles
04:15<Chris82>Smoovious: Nope was all fine
04:16<Chris82>Rubidium: Well these antennas are probably unmovable as well? but you can't demolish them anyway
04:17<Smoovious>:)
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04:25<Chris82>hmmm when building on cleared landscape CmdLandscapeClear is obviously not called?
04:26<Chris82>that's a problem :D
04:26<Chris82>when I build on cleared landscape the close to city increased construction prices are not calculated
04:26<Chris82>but when selling the tile it is
04:26<Chris82>so buy quickly building, selling, building... you can make a lot of money as long as no grass grows on the tile :D
04:27<Smoovious>btw, Chris... I tried to use your server, briefly, before starting my own... tthe increase production costs near towns... think it goes way too high... couldn't even complete a single rail line with my startup money... game was in mid 1950's at the time
04:27<Chris82>I am tweaking that patch right now
04:28<Chris82>also with the current inflation of 3-5% prices will go up very quickly yeah
04:28<Chris82>meaning a coal line is the best start
04:28<Smoovious>is the increased contruction costs, relative to the population of the town?
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04:29<Smoovious>yeah, tried... couldn't finish laying track
04:29<Smoovious>just going 5 squares through farmland cost me $120,000
04:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10474 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#995]: wrong group count after train crash.
04:30<Chris82>hmmm but in building on farmland is really expensive with inflation on even without the patch
04:30<Chris82>-in
04:30<Chris82>I just tweak the patch so distance plays a lower role
04:30<Smoovious>yeah, but it shouldn't be _that_ expensive
04:31<Chris82>i.e. 25 tiles away from a city you won't notice it anymore
04:31<Smoovious>does it also take town population into account? a small town of 200 shouldn't have as much impact on costs, as a city of 10,000, for instance
04:32<Chris82>a town smaller than 400 has no impact
04:33<Chris82>and a town <1000 has very little impact
04:34<Chris82>I just try to fix this clear land problem also
04:35<Chris82>either I make building on clear land expensive (easy to do) or when selling something that's been built on clear land it doesn't give you as much money (difficult to do I could imagine)
04:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10475 /trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#996]: some wrong comments for a few of the (vehicle) group related actions.
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04:37<Smoovious>why worry about it at all... part of building on uncleared land, is the cost for bulldozing and preparinig the land... if you've b ulldozed in a seperate step, and build before it starts growing back in, you've already paid it
04:38<Chris82>yeah but the problem is, when building in the city center on green land you pay e.g. 20k
04:38<Chris82>then you sell it for 5k
04:38<Chris82>quickly build it again for only 1k since the land is clear
04:38<Chris82>and when you sell it again you get 5k = 4k profit
04:38<Chris82>and you can do that a dozen times in 10 seconds making you 48k profit
04:38<Chris82>that's a bug
04:39<Smoovious>ok, well, different issue then
04:39<Chris82>after 100 years due to inflation and bigger cities you'll definitely make profit when selling land, but that's fine
04:40<Smoovious>that's the real estate market
04:41<Chris82>or maybe demolishing bought land and railway should return green land instead of brown (cleared land)
04:42<Chris82>that'd be the easiest solution but it would look stupid
04:45<Chris82>btw... after watching Inconvinient Truth yesterday for the 3rd or 4th time :D I had the idea to add desert to temperate climate as an effect of global warming when you have too many "dirty" vehicles (diesel engines, planes) on the map :D
04:46<Chris82>and the bad thing about desert would be that trains can only drive through it at very low speeds and track maintenance cost is higher etc.
04:47<Gekko>lol
04:47<Gekko>how would you implement that
04:47<Gekko>and why would you bother
04:48<Chris82>well making desert possible in temperate climate surely isn't that big of an issue, there's a snow patch already
04:48<Smoovious>and why would trains go slower? here in the US, they go full-bore, more than anywhere else... less population
04:49<Chris82>well it's not really desert in the US where trains have tracks or are there tracks in death valley?
04:50<Smoovious>yes, it is really desert... we got a whole handfull of states full of desert
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04:50<Gekko>desert sands wouldnt hold the tracks
04:50<Gekko>it's not real desert.
04:51<Smoovious>that doesn't mean it isn't real desert... it is just a different kind of desert
04:51<Smoovious>just cuz our desert's base is dried clay instead of sand, doesn't make it any less 'real'
04:51<Chris82>hmmm ok but I still I would think track maintenance is more expensive there
04:51<Rubidium>like the north and southpole are also deserts (it rains/snows less than x mm per year)
04:52<Chris82>I know ice deserts
04:52<Rubidium>Chris82: it's probably less
04:52<Chris82>hmmm but doesn't sand hurt the metal?
04:52<Rubidium>it's hard as concrete and you wouldn't have weeds
04:52<Smoovious>only insofar as the work crews generally would have further to go to get there... other than that, no more expensive than anywhere else
04:52<Rubidium>and when it's a rock desert there's no that much sand
04:52<Rubidium>I guess water erodes tracks quicker than a rock desert
04:53<Chris82>hmmm ok then I was thinking of the wrong negative effect maybe
04:53<Smoovious>and rocks don't rust either
04:53<Chris82>eventually city shrinking would be a better effect of desert
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04:54<Rubidium>Chris82: why would those cities shrink?
04:54<Smoovious>personally, I'd just stay away from that kind of thing... if we wanted to play in desert, we got a desert scenario
04:54<Smoovious>yeah... Las Vegas is in a desert, and just won't stop growing
04:54<Smoovious>El Paso is in desert too
04:54<Smoovious>pretty big
04:55<Chris82>hmmm ok
04:56<Smoovious>maybe have the cities becoming desert areas, have a much higher ratio of casinos
04:56<Smoovious>and whore houses
04:56<Chris82>whore houses?
04:56<Smoovious>brothelss
04:56<Smoovious>-s
04:56<Chris82>I know what you mean but is it really called that way
04:56<Smoovious>depends on who you talk to
04:57<Smoovious>we're a mellting pot over here you see... no matter what you're referring to, there are at least a dozen ways to refer to them
04:57<Chris82>Rubidium: Autoreplace already knows that and can keep the train length (almost) equal when you replace short wagons with long wagons. < how?
04:57<Chris82>that doesn't work for me
04:58<Rubidium>right corner -> wagon removal
04:59<Chris82>ohhh I thought that would just remove all waggons from the train
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05:09<Chris82>can I make grass grow quicker after a tile has been demolished somehow?
05:10<Chris82>like make it grow after 2 seconds already
05:10<elmz>plant a tree ;)
05:11<Chris82>:p without player action I meant
05:11<elmz>hehe
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05:54<Eddi|zuHause><Chris82> like make it grow after 2 seconds already <- grass growing is somewhere in the tileloop, you can try to skip the intermediate states
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06:00<Smoovious>that'd just be a dirty hack tho... the real problem would still need to be fixed
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06:06<Eddi|zuHause>what "real" problem?
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06:11<Smoovious>2007-07-08 05:37:42 UAC-5 | <Chris82> yeah but the problem is, when building in the city center on green land you pay e.g. 20k
06:11<Smoovious>2007-07-08 05:37:48 UAC-5 | <Chris82> then you sell it for 5k
06:11<Smoovious>2007-07-08 05:37:57 UAC-5 | <Chris82> quickly build it again for only 1k since the land is clear
06:11<Smoovious>2007-07-08 05:38:05 UAC-5 | <Chris82> and when you sell it again you get 5k = 4k profit
06:12<Smoovious>it is a patch he's using to make land more expensive closer to cities (as well as population size)... and building on bulldozed land, isn't reflecting it
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, because the cost i for bulldozing the land...
06:15|-|EQYNoX [~eqynox@e179074202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
06:15<EQYNoX>hi
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>if the land is already bulldozed, costs are not changed
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06:15<Eddi|zuHause>the "problem" is just the increased "cost" for bulldozing own stuff
06:16<Smoovious>yeah, I allready mentioned that
06:16<Smoovious>still tho... shouldn't be able to sell for more than you built for
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes, because he should not modify that cost at all
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>"case MP_UNMOVABLE: case MP_RAIL: break;"
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise he will always get that kind of side effect
06:19<Smoovious>um... is that an agree, or disagree...
06:19<EQYNoX>dint kown what i`m doing wrong but i tried with r7082 0.5.3-rc2 r9885 and r10466 but i can not use the extra dynamite , when its enabled in the patch menu , always when i try to bulldoze and industrie it says "it cant , because coalmine or what ever is in the way" what the hell am i doing wrong ?
06:20<Smoovious>extra dynamite?
06:20<Smoovious>like, in the cheat menu?
06:20<Rubidium>that patch option only makes you remove a little more roads and town buildings
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>EQYNoX: "extra dynamite" only allows to remove roads in cities afaik
06:20<EQYNoX>oh
06:20<Rubidium>in the "cheat" menu there's a magic bulldozer that makes everyone bulldoze everything (as long as there are no vehicles)
06:20<EQYNoX>hm , there is no way other then the cheat menu to bulldoze industry ?
06:22<EQYNoX>but i cant use the cheat menu for multiplayer so i cant use use the magic bulldozer
06:23<EQYNoX>-use
06:23<EQYNoX>:)
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>in that case, you have to wait for the industry to close
06:24<sartsjie>why do you want to bulldoze an industry
06:24<EQYNoX>because i need space :)
06:26<EQYNoX>i have a big train station and dont want to build arround the industie all the time
06:27<sartsjie>is there documentation somewhere on how to query a openttd server for stats?
06:29<Rubidium>depends on the type of stats
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06:31<sartsjie>stats about the running game
06:31<sartsjie>connected clients, companie stats
06:32<sartsjie>*company
06:37<Rubidium>that isn't documented that good
06:38<Rubidium>but you could take a look at OpenTTDlib or something named similarly on the forum
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06:43<sartsjie>ok thanks
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07:27<SmatZ>I do not understand one thing about profiling - when I run game with profiling enabled for 40 seconds, the gprof utility gives me only 7.5 seconds spent in ttd_main() and its children
07:27<SmatZ>where are spent other 32 seconds, while not under ttd_main() ?
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07:27<Smoovious>try it with fast-forward enabledd
07:28<SmatZ>in the system renderer and libraries, that are not compiled with profiling enabled?
07:28<SmatZ>I run with fast forward -
07:28<SmatZ>real 0m39.425s
07:28<SmatZ>user 0m37.200s
07:28<Smoovious>dunno then
07:28<SmatZ>7.46 ttd_main(int, char**) [1]
07:28<SmatZ>:-(
07:29<SmatZ>thanks anyway :)
07:29<@peter1138>do it with -v null
07:30<@peter1138>and -s null -m null
07:31<@peter1138>unless you're profiling output stuff, heh
07:32<SmatZ>peter1138: with -v null , http://paste.openttd.org/164
07:33<SmatZ>with -s null -m null this is the same :)
07:33<SmatZ>some time is spent while loading binary...
07:33<SmatZ>how can I test the game without video output?
07:35<Rubidium>SmatZ: the profiling itself takes time too
07:36<alex_>im trying to compile a list of good sysadmin commands on *nix - ive come up with so far: free, ps aux, uptime, and df - what else would there be?
07:36<alex_>anything else im missing thats good?
07:36<Rubidium>du
07:36<alex_>ahh du
07:36<alex_>anything else
07:36<Rubidium>ls :)
07:36<Rubidium>rm
07:36<Rubidium>mv
07:36<alex_>nono
07:36<alex_>for sysadmin monitoring
07:36<Rubidium>tail
07:37<alex_>like, ill explain
07:37<alex_>ill be creating scripts in perl to monitor these lifesigns
07:37<alex_>of the server
07:37<alex_>and itll warn me if something is wrong wtc
07:37<sartsjie>uname ?
07:37<alex_>etc*
07:37<alex_>yes, thing like uname
07:37<alex_>uname is good, at least it wouldnt change much
07:37<alex_>would give me the time :)
07:37<alex_>anything else
07:38<sartsjie>gotta list kernel version!
07:38<alex_>like free, ps aux, uptime, df, uname -a?\
07:38<alex_>anything that would help monitor a machine
07:38<sartsjie>who ?
07:38<SmatZ>Rubidium: it sure does - but the time spent in ttd_main() and its children is only 1/5 of the total time spent ... seems strange for me, that is all :)
07:39<alex_>sartsjie: yeap who is good
07:39<alex_>like free, ps aux, uptime, df, uname -a, who ....
07:39<Rubidium>tail /var/log/auth.log | grep 'fail'
07:39<alex_>what else
07:39<alex_>excellent
07:39<alex_>now we are thinking
07:39<alex_>i would grep all the logs
07:39<alex_>for signs of trouble... thats good
07:40<alex_>lots of work, but good
07:40<Rubidium>could use logcheck too
07:40<Rubidium>iostat
07:40<alex_>anyone sue bigbrother?
07:40<alex_>use*
07:41<Rubidium>smartmontools
07:42<alex_>yeah but can it use SOAP?
07:42<alex_>or API's?
07:42<Rubidium>just write a wrapper
07:42<alex_>cause im having to do this on over 60 clients :)
07:42<alex_>yeah....
07:44<skidd13>Is the z-order bug with bridge over tunnel known?
07:45<SmatZ>skidd13: actually, there are many z-order problems :-(
07:46<skidd13>Ahh. Shall I post it to FS?
07:47<Rubidium>skidd13: just make a comment in FS#119
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08:11<alex_>how do you get like welcoming messages when peolpe join the server?
08:11<alex_>is that a cfg option?
08:11<alex_>or a mod?
08:11<+glx>it's a .scr
08:15<alex_>any tips on implementing it?
08:17<@peter1138>top - 14:17:19 up 5:09, 5 users, load average: 420.47, 145.27, 52.62
08:17<@peter1138>:o
08:17<alex_>lol!
08:18<+glx>alex_: check scripts/readme.txt
08:18<alex_>peter1138: might want to install those 400+ CPU's you were going to do
08:19<Gekko[PDA]>how do those loads work
08:19<Gekko[PDA]>what are they showing
08:21<Rubidium>the amount of "slices" an application must wait till it gets another "slice" of CPU (or something like that)
08:21<Gekko[PDA]>lol
08:21<Gekko[PDA]>obese apps
08:22<Gekko[PDA]>400 pieces of cake
08:22<Gekko[PDA]>choc mud
08:24<alex_>load averages over tmie
08:24<alex_>first one is like 5 mins, second 10 then 15mins
08:24<alex_>from memory
08:25<alex_>1.00 is 100% cpu
08:25<alex_>.50 is 50% cpu
08:25<alex_>he has 420.47
08:25<alex_>meaning that his processes need 420 of his cpu's
08:25<Gekko[PDA]>he got owned
08:25<Gekko[PDA]>lol
08:26<Rubidium>alex_: a load average is basically the amount of time slices an application must wait till it's next time slice
08:26<alex_>right
08:27<alex_>i thought of it as cpu usage
08:27<alex_>not time waiting
08:27<alex_>i guess it measures both
08:27<alex_><glx> alex_: check scripts/readme.txt
08:27<alex_>where can i find this direcotry?
08:28<Rubidium>alongside the data directory
08:28<+glx>hm it's not in the installer it seems
08:29<alex_>anyone got a messgae script they could copy+paste to me that i could work with?
08:29<alex_>so that when users enter the server they would see a welcome message etc :)
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08:34<alex_>or maybe point me in the right direction on where i can find how to do it?
08:34<alex_>would it be in a dev release?
08:37<alex_>hmm
08:39<alex_>+
08:39|-|Chicago_R_A [~anonymous@c-76-16-92-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit []
08:40<+glx>it is in source package
08:40<alex_>i should just be able to copy it right?
08:40<+glx>yes
08:40<alex_>no need to recompile?
08:40<alex_>thanks
08:41<alex_>and i stick it into : /usr/share/games/openttd?
08:41<alex_>or in the data dir?
08:41<+glx>same level as data
08:41<Gekko[PDA]>lol debian
08:41<alex_>Gekko[PDA]: debian?
08:41<Gekko[PDA]>i already said lol
08:41|-|Nickman [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
08:42<Gekko[PDA]>>.>
08:42<alex_>.. whats wrong with debian?
08:42<Gekko[PDA]>lol debian
08:42<alex_>ban
08:42<alex_>him
08:42<Gekko[PDA]>lol.
08:42<Rubidium>@kick Gekko[PDA] lol
08:42<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Error: Gekko is not in #openttd.
08:42<Rubidium>stupid bot
08:42<Noldo>:)
08:43<Noldo>alex_: just ignore him
08:43<+glx>Rubidium: try Gekko*
08:44<alex_>@kick Gekko* .
08:44<@DorpsGek>alex_: Error: Gekko* is not in #openttd.
08:44<Gekko[PDA]>lkl?
08:44<alex_>@kick "Gekko[PDA] .
08:44<@DorpsGek>alex_: Error: No closing quotation
08:44<Gekko[PDA]>lol.?
08:44<alex_>@kick "Gekko[PDA]" .
08:44<Gekko[PDA]>lol.
08:45<+glx>alex_: but the bot doesn't know you
08:45<alex_>it should
08:45<alex_>i give good secks
08:45<Gekko[PDA]>ban him.
08:45<Gekko[PDA]>lol!
08:45<+glx>at least with quotes it's ok (as it doesn't give error)
08:49<Gekko[PDA]>hmm wheres chris82
08:49<Sacro>yapf_costbase.hpp, line 1
08:52<Sacro>*13 has a spelling mistake
08:52<Sacro>line 14 even
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08:53<hylje>Sacro: you could be subtle and fix that spelling mistake in a diff :>
08:54<Sacro>hylje: that i could
08:54<Sacro>can't i just submit a sed command?
08:54<alex_>hmmmm
08:54<hylje>run the sed and send the diff
08:54<alex_>so for a welcoming message when you join the server
08:54<alex_>you would put that in on_clients.scr?
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08:58<alex_>hmm for some reason my server is ignoring on_clients.scr so no MOTD is being displayed when clients join my server
08:58<alex_>peter1138: can you shed some light on how to enable this?
08:58<alex_>or anyone?
08:59<@peter1138>yeah
08:59<@peter1138>use the right script :)
09:00<alex_>ah... lol
09:00<alex_>which one boss?
09:00<@peter1138>on_server_connect.scr
09:00<alex_>i have to create it?
09:00<alex_>ok
09:01<alex_>debian:/usr/share/games/openttd/scripts# ls -l on_server_connect.scr
09:01<alex_>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36 2007-07-08 16:01 on_server_connect.scr
09:01<alex_>peter1138: this path and filename look good?
09:02<alex_>inside im putting a simple: echo "hello, world"
09:02<alex_>and nothing comes up when i join the server =/
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09:02<@peter1138>for 0.5.x,yeah
09:02<alex_>oh?
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09:03<alex_>so i need to do?
09:03<alex_>upgrade to a RC?
09:03<@peter1138>try "say"
09:03<@peter1138>not echo
09:03<alex_>ok
09:03<alex_>say "hello, world!!!!!!!"
09:03<alex_>..... 5secs
09:04<alex_>nope
09:04<alex_>still nothing ... hmmm
09:05<sartsjie>argh
09:05<alex_>ive even tried: say hello
09:05<sartsjie>i build a station 1 tile next to a refinery, but it wont accept oil
09:05<alex_>stil nothing... is there logs? :D
09:05<Rubidium>sartsjie: not all tiles of the refinery accept oil
09:06<sartsjie>hmm
09:06<sartsjie>i didnt know that
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09:07<sartsjie>i built on the side where the tanks are
09:07<Rubidium>alex_: on_connect.scr using say?
09:07<sartsjie>i guess thats a bad side of the refinery then?
09:08<alex_>hmmm
09:11<alex_>peter1138: told me to use on_server_connect.scr
09:11<Rubidium>the files are called on_connect.scr though (in the scripts directory)
09:11<alex_>nope
09:11<alex_>on_connect.scr doesnt work either
09:12<Rubidium>where did you put it?
09:12<alex_>./usr/share/games/openttd/scripts
09:12<@peter1138>i'd use on_server_connect.scr if you want it to run when a client joins
09:12<alex_>-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 54 2007-07-08 16:05 on_server_connect.scr
09:13<alex_>debian:/usr/share/games/openttd/scripts# tail on_server_connect.scr
09:13<alex_>say hello
09:13<alex_>say ihefiwopefnpf
09:13<alex_>doesnt work =.
09:13<alex_>=/
09:13<Rubidium>hmm, if you start openttd dedicated, and do a ls, where are you at that moment?
09:14<alex_>screen -t openttd-mass /usr/games/openttd -D -c /root/.openttd/openttd4.cfg
09:14<alex_>i use exact paths
09:15<alex_>that a problem?
09:15<+glx>server started as root?
09:16<alex_>yes
09:16<+glx>bad idea
09:16<alex_>i know
09:16<alex_>ill fix that up later
09:16<Gekko[PDA]>cookies and ce
09:17<alex_>everyone stumped on this?
09:17<alex_>on_server_connect.scr is correct....
09:18<alex_>its in /usr/share/games/openttd/scripts
09:18<Rubidium>well, it gives me the feeling the scripts directory is in the wrong location
09:18<alex_>do i need to change som cfg settings?
09:18<Rubidium>but I don't know the right location either
09:18<alex_>peter1138: do i have it in the right location?
09:18<Rubidium>my "money" is on the directory where the binary is in
09:19<alex_>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30489&highlight=onclient+scr
09:19<alex_>someone else has the same problem in this thread
09:20<alex_>should i just use "autopilot?"
09:22<Rubidium>alex_: the problem is that the debian package is screwing with paths all over the place and nobody ever tested where the scripts should've been placed
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09:23<Rubidium>as I said, the scripts directory should probably be in the directory where the binary is in
09:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10476 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Fix: some newgrf callbacks were already implemented even though the comment said they were not.
09:27<alex_>ruight
09:27<alex_>autopilot works :)
09:27<alex_>excellente
09:30<sartsjie>autopilot?
09:31<alex_>sartsj: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=22846&highlight=motd
09:31<alex_>uses the expect program :)
09:31<alex_>work well
09:31<alex_>and i can develop ontop of it too
09:32<sartsjie>ah
09:32<sartsjie>nice
09:33<alex_>ahh fuck
09:33<alex_>its really buggy
09:33<Gekko[PDA]>lol
09:33|-|Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away
09:33<alex_>it spams the wecloming message mutliple times
09:33<alex_>when people join
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09:43<Smoovious>that's to make sure they've seen it. :)
09:43<benc_>!logs
09:43<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
09:45<benc_>00:12:15 < NukeBuster> what's with doxygen?
09:46<benc_>(jul 6)
09:46<benc_>doxygen looks like its gone belly-up
09:46<benc_>http://docs.openttd.org
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09:48<alex_>hmmmmmmm
09:48<alex_>nuts
09:48<alex_>autopilot is bugged
09:52<Rubidium>benc_: again...
09:53<Rubidium>probably something not having enough free diskspace of so I guess
09:56<alex_>woot
09:56<alex_>i hacked a fix
09:56<sartsjie>question
09:56<alex_>31337
09:56<sartsjie>do depots act as a presignal or a normal signal?
09:56<hylje>pre
09:56<sartsjie>meh
09:57<sartsjie>kinda beats the purpose of putting a depot at the entrance of a terminus station, even though it is a nasty solution anyway
09:57<Maedhros>i think it depends on whether it's in a presignal block or not
09:58<sartsjie>because full loaded trains cant leave the depot to exit the station because both tracks are full, even though the exit is free
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10:04<skidd13>I'm reading in src/strings.cpp ATM. Is there a reason why in FormatCommaNumber divisor is querried three times. IMO either reuse the querried var or drop it.
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10:11<Rubidium>skidd13: probably not
10:12<skidd13>It looks a bit wired in my eyes... Just trying to get an impression how the number handling works.
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10:12<alex_>what is net_frame_freq 2
10:12<alex_>?
10:12<ln->wired?
10:13<skidd13>weird! sorry fingers are fater than brain ;)
10:13<skidd13>damn.... faster
10:15<alex_>lol
10:15<alex_>fat fingers? :D
10:16<alex_>anyone have any clue what net_fram_freq does?
10:16<alex_>frame*
10:16<Smoovious>alex_: it is the amount of frames before a command will be (visibly) executed. Default value: 1
10:16<Smoovious>in other words
10:16<Smoovious>"help net_frame_freq" in the status window
10:24<alex_>ta
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10:34[~]Sacro ponders making an OpenTTD livecd
10:35<Wolf01>but make it multiplatform
10:37<Sacro>you mean x86, ppc, arm... all on one?
10:38<Wolf01>yes
10:41|-|alex_ [~alexalex@87-194-40-162.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:50<ln->does someone have an arm-based computer that boots from cd?
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10:51<alex_>can you have more than 10 clients?
10:51<alex_>on one server ? :D
10:54<Smoovious>no
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10:59<alex_>nuts
10:59<alex_>Brianetta: you make autopilot?
11:02<Sacro>http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?do_Details=1&ID=11974 :D
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11:07<benc_>Sacro: r10000 was a nice milestone, but why base your livecd off of it? :D
11:07<Sacro>benc_: no, thats my PKGBUILD for building svn packages
11:08<Sacro>so at 18:00, i can have it automatically build a nightly, and install it using my package manager
11:08<Sacro>and not have loose files laying around
11:08<benc_>so it's a placeholder?
11:08<Sacro>err...
11:08<Sacro>its the same as an rpm spec file
11:09<benc_>ah, okay
11:09<benc_>sorry, i spend most of my time on windows these days
11:09<benc_>do like a good livecd though
11:09<Sacro>however, its set so it doesn't overwite openttd
11:09<Sacro>so i have /usr/share/openttd and /usr/share/openttd-svn
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11:32<Tefad>i can't find discussion, but i have a four-track layout and i'm trying to keep my presignal blocks from getting clogged
11:32<Tefad>if two presignals are red, when the block becomes free, both trains try to travel down and one ends up clogging the block
11:32<Tefad>(mutliple layered block)
11:32<Tefad>(yes i can't spell)
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11:39<Smoovious>screenshot
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11:43<Tefad>ro-ro station. incoming side has two main lines each starts with a regular pre signal (two of them). next i have large X with room for combo signals along the X, so each section of track in the X has a combo signal. at the end of the X i have exit signals.
11:43<Tefad>if the station is full and two trains are waiting
11:43<Tefad>when the first train leaves, both trains attempt to enter the X, then one gets stopped by a combo signal.
11:44<Tefad>i remember seeing this kind of problem before, but i forgot what the solution is
11:46<Smoovious>screenshot
11:46<Tefad>too lazy, sorry.
11:46<Smoovious>not motivated... sorry...
11:46<sartsjie>a picture speaks a thousand words
11:46<Tefad>then we agree this problem isn't important : )
11:46<Tefad>it's been looked into before
11:46<Tefad>i just forgot what i'm supposed to do
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11:49<alex_>wootr
11:49<alex_>6 of 20 of my servers up:)
11:50<sartsjie>stupid tcl
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11:51<nairan_work>i noticed there are some servers with far lower r nightly
11:51<nairan_work>and 4.7 server
11:51<nairan_work>)
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12:13<skidd13>since when is bridge over bridge allowed?
12:16<Rubidium>it isn't
12:16<Rubidium>bridge over bridgehead maybe, but bridge over bridge isn't allowed
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12:23<ln->http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/kuvat/tmp/liikennevalo.jpg
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12:29<Smoovious>wow... someone actually started a network game on version 0.4.0.1
12:31[~]Sacro trumps that
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12:31<Sacro>i have 0.1 here
12:32<Sacro>svn co -r 1 :p
12:32<Rubidium>Sacro: that ain't 0.1 by a *long* shot
12:32<Sacro>no, that's true
12:34<Smoovious>alright... fire up a network game... lets see it in the list. :P
12:35<Sacro>my internet is being sucky
12:35[~]Sacro fires up bind
12:37<skidd13>Rubidium: the old ai builds bridge over bridge :)
12:40<Rubidium>it shouldn't be doing that
12:40<@peter1138>savegame?
12:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10477 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: add some callbacks to customise the acceptance of industries.
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12:43<skidd13>sry, experienced that during patch testing... mybe I can reproduce it again.
12:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10478 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#999]: remove the loading indicator when a vehicle is removed.
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10479 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-08 19:44:48
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: american - 4 fixed by WhiteRabbit (4)
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 67 fixed by joeprusa (67)
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 6 fixed by ThomasA (6)
12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by webfreakz (2)
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13:08<Digitalfox_>Ányone here from UK ?
13:09<Maedhros>yes
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13:16<skidd13>lighthouses and transmitters under bridges cause invisible bridge parts lol ->scenario editor
13:17<Maedhros>that shouldn't be allowed either
13:17<Maedhros>(the game will crash if you remove the bridge...)
13:23<Rubidium>Maedhros: are you going to fix that or should I do it?
13:24<Maedhros>Rubidium: i'll have a go (unless you've already started :p)
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13:25<Rubidium>have fun; probable a "if (MayHaveBridgeAbove(cur_tile) && IsBridgeAbove(cur_tile)) return CMD_ERROR;" somewhere
13:33<Maedhros>hmm. since it's only allowed in the scenario editor it's not done with a command at all
13:33<Maedhros>ah well
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13:35<tga>howdy
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13:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10480 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Don't allow building lighthouses and transmitters under bridges in the scenario editor, or during world generation.
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13:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r10481 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Show a news message with the new industry when primary industry prospecting succeeds.
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13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10482 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix [FS#990]: Do not override the CFLAGS environment variable when configuring a non-debug makefile. Based on a patch by saggson.
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14:27|-|mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
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14:52<kaan>hi all
14:54<Wolf01>hi
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10483 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h): -Codechange: add support for callbacks to manipulate the building chance of farm fields and chopping chance for lumber mills.
14:55<kaan>nice one Rubidium
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15:17<Anb>Good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone :)
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15:19<Digitalfox_>Good morning/afternoon/evening/night Anb :)
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15:31<Wolf01>'night
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15:58<Ammller>how is the url for checkout 0.5.2?
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15:58<Rubidium><base_url>/tags/<version>
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15:59<Ammller>thx rubidum
15:59<+glx>and export is enough
15:59<Ammller>export?
15:59<+glx>svn export
16:00<Ammller>what the diff?
16:00<+glx>you don't get all .svn stuff
16:00<+glx>as it's not needed
16:00<Ammller>svn is only needed, if I would develop?
16:01<+glx>checkout is needed if you plan to make a patch against 0.5.2, but it's not recommended
16:02<Ammller>and for using svn up (trunk)?
16:02<+glx>for trunk and branches use checkout
16:02<+glx>and svn up
16:02<Rubidium>you can't svn up from 0.5.2/whatever branch/tag to trunk
16:03<+glx>of course :)
16:03<Ammller>Rubidium: clear, I meant what glx answerd
16:03<Ammller>I miss the websvn
16:04<Ammller>or how can I browse the svn without chekcout?
16:06<Phazorx>hmm.. how many good units are should it be per one primary cargo delivered to factory?
16:06<@peter1138>and in english?
16:07<hylje>no
16:07<Phazorx>how many good units generated per one raw cargo at factory?
16:07<hylje>Ammller: svn list
16:07<hylje>1:1
16:07<Phazorx>hylje: are you sure?
16:07<hylje>i think it has something to do with the rating
16:08<hylje>but ive noted mostly 1:1 results
16:08<Phazorx>i tihnk you are right about rating
16:09<Phazorx>does station recieve only as much share as it's rating for taking that cargo?
16:09<hylje>i think the highest rating station gets it all
16:10<Phazorx>i have only one station and i get about 2:3 ratio for output
16:10<Phazorx>as in if i bring 1000 primary - i get 600-700 output
16:11<Phazorx>and rating is 73% now
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16:23<Phazorx>before truck arrival: http://img.cx/e/5920251512/PICCYSNAP.COM_907_c.png
16:24<Phazorx>truck unloaded 20 primary, train laoded 39 secondary: http://img.cx/e/1308091991/PICCYSNAP.COM_739_c.png
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16:24<Phazorx>truck unloaded 58 primary, train loaded same 39: http://img.cx/e/1615505964/PICCYSNAP.COM_717_c.png
16:26<Ailure>jesus that truck looks so out of place
16:27<Ailure>well
16:27<Ailure>I think the amount of cargo you get is the same as your rating, though it complicates things a bit if theres severeal statinons sharing a industry
16:28<Phazorx>how complicated?
16:28<Phazorx>will i get more than one per if i have mroe than one station?
16:29<Ailure>No idea
16:29<Ailure>but if you/re lone station
16:29<Ailure>but then
16:29<Ailure>the industry reports how much it brings to station in its window
16:29<Phazorx>thuis is the only station it is same for drop and pickup tho
16:29<Ailure>I meant for pickup
16:30<Ailure>for dropoff it wouldnt matter
16:30<Phazorx>inustry reports how much is on the station ATM
16:31<Phazorx>also industry has no local authority and this station does nto accept goods neithjer
16:31<Phazorx>so it's hard to see where else could goods go aside of in that train
16:34<Phazorx>peter1138, Rubidium any ideas on how it SHOULD behave?
16:34<Ailure>No it dosent
16:34<Ailure>it reports how much it put into the stations in the last month
16:34<Phazorx>huh?
16:34<Ailure>not in total
16:35<Phazorx>you mean industry status then i guess
16:35<Phazorx>then it reports how much it produces
16:35<Phazorx>not how much was dropped at all station and not how much any station got
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16:36<Phazorx>so that number is kidna useless
16:36<Ailure>[23:27] <Phazorx> inustry reports how much is on the station ATM
16:36<Ailure>eh
16:36<Ailure>wait
16:36<Phazorx>station
16:36<Phazorx>sorry i meant station
16:36<Ailure>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics
16:36<Ailure>and no its not
16:36<Ailure>I found it useful \\
16:37<Ailure><<
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16:39<Phazorx>for given issue of figureung out primary/secondary ratio, or for figuring out where cargo goes - it bring no meaning i meant
16:39<Phazorx>overall it is nice to see for big stations
16:39<Phazorx>that page apparently does not touch facroty production?
16:40<@peter1138>if you think that number is useless, try finding profitable routes without it
16:40<Ailure>indeed
16:40<Ailure>heh
16:41<Phazorx>okai for GIVEN subject it is not any usefull
16:42<Phazorx>i'm not discussing general industry statistics
16:44<kaan>night all
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16:44<Phazorx>it's plain amazing how people get sidetracked with demagogics on IRC
16:49<@peter1138>goodnight
16:49<Phazorx>night
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18:02<elmz>playing a game vs a friend now, but he keeps pinging out
18:02<elmz>console says to raise net_frame_freq
18:02<elmz>currently it is set to 0 (default as you probably know)
18:03<elmz>but I have no idea what value to set it to ^^
18:03<elmz>5? 10? 100?
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18:03<Phazorx>i asked same question before - got soemthing like "try and see"
18:04<elmz>and what did you try? :P
18:04<Phazorx>most liekly wont help since it looks like one of computers is not apt
18:04<Phazorx>i tried 2 and 4 :)
18:04<elmz>did it help? ^^
18:04<Phazorx>no, but it helped turning off other apps and giving more CPU ticks to the game
18:04<Phazorx>as well as cutting down torrent activity
18:07<elmz>none of us are dling/upping, but I found the error....relayed connection in Hamachi :)
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18:25<elmz>hm,one thing that might make a gam harder to play would be if there was property maintenance on everything
18:26<elmz>roads, rails etc
18:26<elmz>not just stations :)
18:26<elmz>would be more realistic too :)
18:28<elmz>just came to my mind right now, had to say it
18:28<elmz>has most likely been said before :)
18:31|-|mikegrb Your nick is now not_iggy
18:31<SmatZ>yes it has :)
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23:47|-|not_iggy Your nick is now mikegrb
---Logclosed Mon Jul 09 00:00:42 2007