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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-09

---Logopened Mon Jul 09 00:00:42 2007
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01:26<skidd13>Is there a operator to check if a var reaches its limit? eg an uint8 is near 256
01:29<Noldo>what do you need it for?
01:31<skidd13>I' working on Zojj's performance meter and I want to stop calculation if the tick counter reaches it's type defined max value.
01:33<Noldo>I don't think there is such an operator
01:33<@peter1138>if var == 255 :p
01:34<Noldo>peter1138: use ? : so it's more operatorlike ;)
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01:35<skidd13>I'm using this ATM, but I thought somebody could have a better solution. ;)
01:35<Noldo>no, it's the best
01:36<skidd13>looks a bit strange in code ... if (pm->total_tick_count == 4294967295) { ...
01:37<@peter1138>well there is 'UINT_MAX'
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01:38<skidd13>Thanks, that looks nicer
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 09 03:36:19 2007
---Logopened Mon Jul 09 03:36:24 2007
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03:36|-|Ekipa kanalu #openttd: Wszystkich: 77 |-| +op [4] |-| +voice [1] |-| normalnych [72]
03:37|-|Kanal #openttd zsynchronizowany w 70 sekundy
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03:42<dihedral>hello there
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03:45<dihedral>truebrain not around?
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04:02<blathijs>dihedral: Think he went on holidy
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04:27<@peter1138>he did
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05:31<alex_>'ello :)
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06:14<alex_>whats a good format of naming my server
06:14<alex_>currently mine looks ugly :(
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06:14<alex_>[AlexServer - Miniworld - NoBrk, NoAir]
06:15<eekee>that looks sane
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06:17<Gekkko`>as in 128 x 128?
06:17<Gekkko`>alex_: &
06:17<Gekkko`>AlexServer >> Miniworld >> [NoBrk - NoAir]
06:18<alex_>128 x 128
06:19<alex_>or 128 x 64
06:19<Gekkko`>limit the slots to 4 people
06:19<Gekkko`>otherwise it'll just choke
06:19<Gekkko`>by 2000 someone will have a heavy monopoly
06:19<alex_>i have another one which is trucks only
06:19<Gekkko`>its my map of choice
06:19<Gekkko`>is it subarctic?
06:19<alex_>miniworld trucks only
06:19<Gekkko`>is the best.
06:19<alex_>it could be :)
06:20<alex_>ill be firing up around 6-8 miniworld servers
06:20<Gekkko`>dont disable planes on one of them
06:20<alex_>what would be a good start and end date?
06:20<Gekkko`>leave it on with the planes grf
06:20<Gekkko`>start 1930
06:20<Gekkko`>end 2100
06:20<Gekkko`>it's fun
06:21<Gekkko`>most I could make was $1,000,000 a year
06:21<Gekkko`>with everything monopolised
06:21<alex_>fuck, and such a small map
06:21<Gekkko`>make sure on arctic you set the snow level low enough to grow forests
06:21<Gekkko`>or half the map dies lol
06:21<Gekkko`>you have 5 paper plants
06:21<Gekkko`>no trees
06:21<Gekkko`>so i rose the land by 3 in about 4 plots
06:21<Gekkko`>trees grew next to each other
06:21<Gekkko`>monopolised the lumber
06:22<alex_>so you need a low snow level for forests
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06:23<Gekkko`>just enuogh for it to be completely white
06:23<Gekkko`>or set it very hilly
06:24<alex_>im extimating around a 60 player capaticity
06:24<alex_>on my current servers
06:24<alex_>so im going to spilt up servers within that
06:24<alex_>so i dont freak out the server
06:25<alex_>so around 6 miniworlds at 4 players
06:25<alex_>one massive - 1024 x 1024.
06:25<alex_>and the rest medium maps @ 10 players a pop
06:25<Gekkko`>charge people to play
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06:53<alex_>lol charge/
06:57<Gekkko`>make them pay
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08:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10484 /trunk/src/newgrf_canal.cpp: -Codechange: reduce code duplication.
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08:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10485 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: add a callback mechanism to determine whether building an industry is allowed at a given location.
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08:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10486 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix: do not draw foundations when the "should I draw foundations" callbacks says to do so.
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>"to not do so"?
09:01<hylje>confusingly said but its correct
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09:05<Sacro>should be "not to do so"
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09:05<eekee>mmm *nod* as stated it seems to reverse the logic of the "should I draw foundations" callbacks
09:08<Noldo>well you can deduce it from the word Fix
09:12<Sacro>the Paste from and Copy To options on a viewport are the wrong way around
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause>it should be called "goto location" and "take snapshot here"
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>the current naming is very confusing
09:18<Sacro>well, it'd be fine reversed
09:18<Sacro>i click paste from, to make the viewport the same as my main screen
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09:18<Sacro>and copy from to make my main screen, the viewport location
09:18<Sacro>but currently its opposite
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, but in all other windows it is "goto location"
09:19<Maedhros>which makes a lot more sense, to be honest
09:20<Sacro>OPF lookahead for signals is only 1023 tiles...
09:21<Maedhros>"only" :p
09:21<Sacro>Maedhros: well someone has posted a bug about it...
09:21<Sacro>i think he expects it to be...
09:21<Sacro>!calc 2048^2
09:21<_42_>Sacro: 4194304;
09:21<Sacro>that big ^^
09:22<Gekko[PDA]>thats nice
09:22<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 128^2
09:22<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 16384;
09:22<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 64^2
09:22<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 4096;
09:22<Gekko[PDA]>1023 is way off
09:23<Sacro>why would anyone need signal blocks bigger than 1023 squares?
09:23<alex_>long straight line
09:23<Gekko[PDA]>mass signaling?
09:23<Sacro>i admire the fact he disabled YAPF
09:23<Sacro>even though it doesn't make a difference, and he even tried stable/nightlies
09:24<Maedhros>personally i think opf is justified in assuming that if there aren't any signals in 1023 tiles there aren't going to be any
09:24<Sacro>Maedhros: i've played around, and when it gets to within 1023 tiles, it flips to red
09:24<Sacro>but before that, it sticks green
09:25<alex_>you counted?
09:25<Sacro>the main problem is that signals float green, which is unrealistic and dangerous
09:25<Sacro>alex_: yes
09:25<Gekko[PDA]>float green?
09:25<Sacro>Gekko[PDA]: yep
09:26<Sacro>a TTD signal defaults to green, and goes red when its block is occupied
09:26<Sacro>however a real signal defaults to red, and goes green if requested AND the block is clear
09:26<Gekko[PDA]>implement it?
09:27<Sacro>does nobody know about #newsignals D:
09:27<Maedhros>no ;)
09:27<Sacro>have you ever read the signalling code...
09:27<Sacro>or the YAPF code...
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>that plan is over a year old now :p
09:27<Maedhros>i tried
09:27<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: indeed it is
09:28<Sacro>i've done a bit of coding
09:28<Sacro>came up with a very fun NOR signal
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>i have read a little through the old PBS code
09:29<Sacro>yes, i have that here
09:29<Sacro>but its based on NPF
09:29<Sacro>it needs to be based on YAPF
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>actually, it should be comletely pathfinder agnostic
09:30<Sacro>hmm, how would that work?
09:30<Sacro>main signals are still based on OPF
09:30<eekee>their normal state is green. should be red
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the track reserving and the signal switching part
09:30<eekee>isn't easy to see when i've scrolled back, here ^^'
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>the pathfinder may have optimisationns to avoid reserved paths
09:31<Gekko[PDA]>what about yellow?
09:31|-|Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away
09:31<Gekko[PDA]>where_ does yellow come in
09:31<Sacro>Gekko[PDA]: its a nice colour, your nick appears in it
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>*waves hand* there is no yellow
09:31<Gekko[PDA]>in Australia there is >.>
09:31<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: stop opressing us
09:32<Gekko[PDA]>ive seen the red light turn yellow multiple times
09:32<eekee>yeah, britain too, just means the next signal is red I think
09:32<Sacro>not is, might be
09:33<Sacro>you can diverge on yellow
09:33<Sacro>but the next signal could possibly be green
09:33<Gekko[PDA]>implement it for unneccesary confusion of the Ai!
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>in germany there is yellow, yellow/yellow and green/yellow i believe
09:33<Sacro>yeah, i think so
09:34<Sacro>red, yellow, yellow yellow, green, flashing green
09:34<Gekko[PDA]>germany rocks
09:34<eekee>mmm, might have the green/yellow here too
09:34<Gekko[PDA]>someone finish the deutsch tramse_t
09:34<eekee>do they have purple with green dots?
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>green/yellow means "speed limit, because using branching part of a switch" i believe
09:35<Sacro>ah yes, we have flashing yellow for that
09:35<Gekko[PDA]>speed limit of...
09:35<Sacro>diverging at main line speed
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>it's usually given as a plate on the signal
09:36<Sacro>no, flashing yellow is for diverging onto a line of lower speed
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>plates saying "4" or "6" meaning 40 or 60 km/h
09:36<Gekko[PDA]>whats faster: 4m/m or 4km/h?
09:36<eekee>meters a minute?
09:36<Sacro>the same
09:36<@peter1138>4km/h, obviously
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>1m/s = 3,6km/h
09:37<@peter1138>4 metres a minute is rather slow...
09:37<eekee>4m/m = 240m/h = 0.24km/h
09:37<Gekko[PDA]>its 0.25(ish)
09:38<@peter1138>Gekko[PDA] fails for asking, eekee fails for needing to calculate, sacro fails for being sacro
09:38<caladan>come on, go ask google :P
09:38<eekee>0.96, ya
09:38<Gekko[PDA]>dude i was joking
09:38<Sacro>peter1138: a signal only has 1023 tiles lookahead
09:38<@peter1138>4 miles per minute?
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>and how much is that in fathoms per fortnight?
09:38<eekee>peter1138: hella quick!!!
09:38<@peter1138>Sacro: yes
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>ok, furlongs :)
09:39<caladan>1 fathoms per fortnight = 1.51190476 × 10-6 meters per second
09:39<eekee>oh 4 miles a minute is one of the default mag-lev's top speeds I think
09:39<hylje>google calc owns
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>but fathoms exists too, i believe
09:39<caladan>yes, it does :-)
09:40<Sacro>isn't a fathom about 24 inches?
09:40<eekee>yes, usually as a measurement of water depth :)
09:40<Maedhros>fathoms is usually used to measure depth rather than distance
09:40<caladan>1 fathom = 72 inches
09:40<eekee>I thought it was 6 feet-- ah, yes it is :D
09:40<caladan>hmm, i guess, one bot should have like !google command :P
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>i learned it as what you can reach around with two arms, i believe
09:41<eekee>but using google calc takes all of the fun out of it!
09:41<caladan>nope, it IS fun
09:41<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 4m/s
09:41<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
09:41<Gekko[PDA]>take that bot
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>the bot has no predefined units
09:42<Sacro>!calc pi
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>and wasn't there #temple_of_the_bot or something?
09:42<_42_>Sacro: 0;
09:42<Gekko[PDA]>!calc e=mc^2
09:42<Sacro>_42_: no it's not :o
09:42<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: no value returned
09:42<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 2^0
09:42<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1;
09:42<Sacro>i fancy some bacon
09:43<Gekko[PDA]>i never understand power of 0
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>!calc obase=16;255
09:43<_42_>Eddi|zuHause: FF;
09:43<Gekko[PDA]>why is it 1
09:43<caladan>thy? it's easy
09:43<caladan>imagine taking roots
09:43<caladan>1/2 is square root
09:43<caladan>so the more rooting you do you get closer to 1
09:43<alex_>mm rooting
09:43<Sacro>any number to ^0 is always 1
09:44<Sacro>by definition
09:44<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(9)
09:44<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 3.0000000000;
09:44<caladan>xcept for 0
09:44<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(1)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: except 0
09:44<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1;
09:44<Sacro>caladan: that'd be nullity
09:44<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(0)
09:44<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 0;
09:44<alex_>!cale x=3;x^2
09:44<alex_>!calc x=3;x^2
09:44<Sacro>yes, 0*0=0
09:44<_42_>alex_: 9;
09:44<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(0^0)
09:44<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1;
09:44<caladan>hehe, WRONG
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: no, 0^0 is not 0
09:44<Gekko[PDA]>defies logic
09:44<caladan>its NaN
09:45<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(0^0)
09:45<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1;
09:45<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(0^0*2)
09:45<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1.4142135623;
09:45<Sacro>!calc scale=50;4*a(1)
09:45<caladan>omg, fool
09:45<_42_>Sacro: 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937508;
09:45<Gekko[PDA]>!calc sqrt(0^0)*2
09:45<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 2;
09:45<alex_>!calc pi
09:45<_42_>alex_: 0;
09:45<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 2pi
09:45<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
09:46<Gekko[PDA]>!calc pi^0
09:46<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1;
09:46<caladan>!calc 4^0.00000001
09:46<_42_>caladan: Runtime warning (func=(main), adr=15): non-zero scale in exponent;1;
09:46<alex_>!calc pix1
09:46<_42_>alex_: 0;
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>you should better stop now!
09:46<Maedhros>oh god, please leave the bot alone...
09:46<Sacro>caladan: ooh nice error
09:46<Gekko[PDA]>its abuse the bot hour
09:46<Gekko[PDA]>give us time
09:46<Prof_Frink>!calc airspeedvelocityofanunladenswallow
09:46<_42_>Prof_Frink: 0;
09:47<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 0^0^0^0
09:47<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 1;
09:47<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 10^100
09:47<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000;
09:47<Gekko[PDA]>!calc 10^10^100
09:47<_42_>Gekko[PDA]: Runtime error (func=(main), adr=15): exponent too large in raise;
09:47<Maedhros>seriously, stop it
09:48<Gekko[PDA]>find the 6
09:51<@Belugas>Gekko[PDA], one more use of the bot and you will face the consequences. Ok?
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09:52<Gekko[PDA]>i stopped already >.>
09:52<@peter1138>well that's good
09:53<@Belugas>indeed :) same for the others, it is a tool, not a toy
09:53<@Belugas>thanks for your understanding
09:54<Gekko[PDA]>its not the sharpest tool in the shed
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10:05<UnderBuilder>a question: will be possible having a multilanguage wiki?
10:11<@Belugas>UnderBuilder: it is planned. Mihamix should do it eventually, when time allows it for him to perform the adequate modifications
10:11<@Belugas>real life...
10:12<Gekko[PDA]>screw real life
10:12<caladan>Gekko[PDA]: let them have real life or just maybe got some yourself
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10:13<Gekko[PDA]>i live too much >.>
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10:33<Ailure>Only problem with a multilangual wiki would keeping all languages up to date that isn\t English :P
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10:35<@Belugas>up to the users to do so, since they are the ones, basically, who write it :)
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10:36<@Belugas>We already have a french version of the most usefull pages, translated by the french community
10:36<Ailure>heh true
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10:36<Ailure>I might do a translation of the manual part
10:36<Ailure>into Swedish
10:36<Ailure>even if I do happen to run the game in English and all
10:39<@Belugas>good idea to start working on it :)
10:39<@Belugas>I just cannot garantee any dates as to when the system will be available though
10:39<ln->varför använder du spelet på engelska?
10:41<Maedhros>i think the only answer i can give to that is, "maybe"
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11:04<Phazorx>how many goods units generated per one raw cargo at factory?
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11:14<myrka>just played ottd for 7 hours
11:14<myrka>at multi
11:18<Sacro>ooh you all returned
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11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10487 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix: forgot some breaks in a switch statement.
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11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10488 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-09 18:32:28
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 2 fixed by kristjans (2)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changed by lorenzodv (1)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 6 fixed by leejaeuk5 (6)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 53 fixed by amjaliks (53)
11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 fixed, 9 changed by izhirahider (14)
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12:06<Ammler>how is the rcon pw, if you start a server?
12:07<Ammler>without configure something
12:07<@peter1138>it's feeling fine
12:07<+glx>Ammler: it's "" by default
12:07<+glx>and if it's "" you can't use rcon
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12:13<sartsj>if i have a server with a game with an enddate
12:14<sartsj>does it save the game at the enddate automatically?
12:15<Phazorx>i'm looking at MoveGoodsToStation()
12:15<Phazorx>how is it suppsoed to deal with situation when ther eis only one station around?
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12:17<@Belugas>sartsj, i don't think it does. But your system can be configured to save games regularly, though
12:17<sartsj>well autosave is on
12:17<sartsj>but it overwrites those
12:18<sartsj>i just want a save of any game that ends, basically
12:18<Phazorx>cuz if i'm seeing thins correctly - there is only portion of output is dealt with, proportional to station rating
12:18<Phazorx>rather than dump all to only available station
12:20<@Belugas>sartsj, the exact behaviour you want is not in trunk. sorry
12:20<sartsj>too bad
12:20<sartsj>not that important, just wondered if it was possible ;)
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12:43<@peter1138>Phazorx: that is correct, it depends on your station rating
12:43<@peter1138>if it dumped everything to the single station, there'd be no point in the rating
12:44<Phazorx>peter1138: in case if there is ONLY one station
12:44<Phazorx>some just goes to void
12:44<Phazorx>which is kinda bad especially for secondary industries
12:45<Phazorx>where part of primaries you brought goes to waste
12:45<@peter1138>no, that's the point
12:45<@peter1138>keep your ratings high and you'll get most of it
12:46<Phazorx>well i dont have to - i can just built another station with single truck and get most that way
12:46<Phazorx>but that is fulgy and exploiting
12:46<Phazorx>it would make sense to send all produce to one station if no more than one is available
12:49<@Belugas>Phazorx, please... This is the way it is, and it is the way it has always been. If you don't like it that way, yo can still change the code and make it to yor liking. But don't expect it to be in trunk.
12:50<sartsj>not trying to come between anyone here, but he has a point
12:50<Phazorx>Belugas: can you explain advanatage of having it as is now ?
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12:50<@Belugas>What you see logical may make scream tons of users for blasphemy
12:50<Phazorx>Belugas: perhaps :)
12:50<sartsj>isnt a patch a good choice then?
12:51<@peter1138>the advantage it you've got to work for it
12:51<Phazorx>but probably many dont see it logical to build 2 pickup sttaions at fdactyory or cheat with one to get all production one desrves
12:51<@peter1138>why do you 'deserve' it?
12:51<Phazorx>peter1138: that's more like speedbumop rather than work
12:51<Phazorx>i can see competeing with another player as work
12:52<Phazorx>but in case of only one station i dont see much befeit to loosing some cargo
12:52<@peter1138>in case you didn't know
12:52<@peter1138>the object of the game is not to end up with transporting the most possible
12:52<@peter1138>not *just* that, anyway
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12:53<@Belugas>sartsj, we do not want to overpopulate the system with countless of patches option just to please everyone's need
12:53<@Belugas>wouldbe a nightmare
12:53<@peter1138>for instance. in doom, why don't you just start with all weapons?
12:54<Phazorx>i like efficiency part of the game.. but i dont like exploits to avhieve that... current way is kidna enforcing it since 2 large pickups are not feasible.. just one pseduo station
12:54<@peter1138>(ok, you can if you cheat :p)
12:54<@Belugas>Phazorx, unless you turn off AI, you're never alone in the game
12:54<Phazorx>Belugas: that does not mean i will let AI or anyonle else to compete for goods based on what i brought to the factory
12:55<Phazorx>peter1138: different game models... but i get your point... it;s like charcter ramp up
12:55<@peter1138>that you need a decent station rating is part of the game
12:55<Phazorx>but i cant say on this particular angle it is adding extra challenge... only anoyance
12:56<Phazorx>peter1138: with smooth economy and train maagement i can get it to 85% no problem
12:56<@Belugas>it's not annoyance. You have to perform. that's th point of the game
12:56<Phazorx>however not to 100
12:56<Phazorx>Belugas: for sure but then it might have to be enforced in some other way
12:56<Phazorx>cuz instead of grooming sttaion to close to 100
12:57<@Belugas>nope. your habilities to build a good system counts
12:57<Phazorx>it;s easier to have it at 60 and just put anover quazy station to balance out rating
12:57<@Belugas>artificial means are cheats
12:57<@peter1138>build a statue, heh
12:57<Phazorx>peter1138: factory can be with no local authority
12:58<@peter1138>all stations have an associated town
12:58<Phazorx>Belugas: exactly... that's why i said i dont like exploiting it...
12:58<Phazorx>peter1138: i was under impression that some tile of industry should have locla authority to have it recieve benefit from town's rating
12:59<@peter1138>you are wrong
12:59<Phazorx>i shall try that, however that wasnt my point
12:59<@peter1138>it's dependent on station rating, anyway
13:00<Phazorx>i just think it is not nice to have a need to built 2 stations for same owner just to be able to extract all
13:00<@peter1138>your point is moot
13:00<@peter1138>because it is not going to be changed
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13:00<Phazorx>well i have a patch that changes it for me already
13:01<Phazorx>and "because it is not going to be changed" is nto a valid argument for feasibility of how it is
13:03<@Belugas>that you wrote a patch is a good point for you. But it's not because you wrote it that it HAS to be included in trunk
13:03<Phazorx>Belugas: i'm not impying that either, just want to know why it is as is for starters
13:03<@Belugas>You can consider that a bad behaviour, but you should consider us as keeper of the trunk's sanity
13:04<sartsj>talking about patches, the coloured newspaper isnt all that useful either :p
13:04<@peter1138>Phazorx: because that is how our Lord Chris designed it
13:04<@Belugas>well... i think that
13:04<Phazorx>peter1138: is that so?
13:04<@Belugas>thatnks peter1138 :)
13:04<@Belugas>saved me some keuwords
13:04<Phazorx>in TTD as i recall factory had 1:1 ratio between in/out
13:05<@Belugas>sartsj, it is part of the look and feel of the game :)
13:05<Phazorx>in ottd it does not due tio this feature
13:05<@Belugas>a bit old fashioneed
13:05<@Belugas>Phazorx, and with newindustries, it is all different
13:06<sartsj>belugas yea, but whats the real point of being able to change the year that they get coloured ink? :)
13:06<Phazorx>perhaps... that is not a valid point for "how it is now" either tho
13:06<@peter1138>it is
13:06<@peter1138>it is the same as it is in vanilla ttd
13:06<Phazorx>peter1138: are you sure?
13:08<@Belugas>you doubt our Code Leader?
13:08<@Belugas>sartsj, what do you mean?
13:08<Phazorx>Belugas: i have a suspicion that if i launch TTD and check it i'll learn that behavior is different when it comes to secondary inudsty
13:09<Phazorx>however, perhaps my memory is not serving me well...
13:09<Phazorx>but that gices me enough grounds to ask if peter is sure about this particular aspect
13:09<sartsj>Belugas, well i'm trying to bash anything, but whats the point of being able to change the year that your newspaper is in color?
13:09<sartsj>how was this handled in the original ttd
13:10<@Belugas>for the sake of the Realism. A feature a lot of users crave for :)
13:10<eekee>how about for fun? it's a game :D
13:11<@Belugas>Some users are taking the game REALLY seriously
13:12<@Belugas>you should see the feature requests we've received from time to time...
13:12<Phazorx>heh i recall asking for limitted plane range
13:15<eekee>well that would stop a player from suddenly shipping goods by airplane most of the way across a giant map...
13:15<eekee>wouldn't like to do the pathfinder though lol
13:16<eekee>then again, overcrowd an airport and...
13:16<Phazorx>eekee: pf has nothing to do with it
13:16<Phazorx>just measure distance between 2 sceduled points
13:17<eekee>o ok that's cool
13:17<Phazorx>you can still ship across map but have to land for refouel
13:17<eekee>ah, yeah
13:17<Phazorx>and that would really make usage of different vehicles
13:17<Phazorx>some have more capacity soem greater range
13:17<Phazorx>so it wont be all 747
13:18<eekee>good opportunity for grf makers
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13:25<eekee>ack, I'm gettign left-behind loading indicators with r10483
13:26<eekee>might be related to pausing & window switching
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13:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10489 /trunk/src/yapf/ (follow_track.hpp yapf.h yapf_costrail.hpp): -Codechange [YAPF]: FollowTrack_t now has new data member - m_err. It indicates the reason why the given track/trackdir can't be followed when method CFollowTrackT<>::Follow() returned false.
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13:40<Ailure>[20:34] <Ailure> haha
13:40<Ailure>[20:34] <Ailure> I nearly had 300 mb of logs
13:40<Ailure>[20:34] <Ailure> compressed it down to 145 MB
13:40<Ailure>[20:34] <Ailure> Could probably compress it further if I didn't use the inbuilt NTFS compression
13:40<Ailure>I log every chat :)
13:40<@peter1138>i'm so impressed, i think i might just go back to RCT
13:41<Ailure>Someone gotta have worse though
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13:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10490 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: add support for industries on non-flat surfaces.
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13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10491 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp:
13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#988, YAPF]: When rail segment was cached using electric engine and it ended with non-electric rail it was incorrectly cached with the end reason ESRB_DEAD_END instead of ESRB_RAIL_TYPE. (Eddi)
13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - It caused YAPF to end prematurely there when it was searching for another path (for non-electric engine).
13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - It can lead to sub-optimal path taken or 'train is lost' message.
13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - In MP game it can also cause desync.
13:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Uses changes made in r10489.
13:57<Sacro>KUDr: how verbose
13:58<KUDr>It is mostly for me (bad memory)
13:58<KUDr>too old model
13:58<Digitalfox>Upgrade to anew model...
13:59<KUDr>'.. is getting very old and urgently needs to be replaced.'
13:59<Sacro>don't you autorenew?
13:59<KUDr>no, this Bjarni's implementation doesn't work in this case
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14:11<Phazorx>patch kudr.malloc_buffer = MAX_INT
14:12<Phazorx>should be enough for a while...
14:12<KUDr>'Out Of Memory Exception' thrown - Do you want send report to Micro$oft?
14:13<Phazorx>i think you should mvoe to mingw+gcc
14:13<Phazorx>or get a linux box
14:13<KUDr>i don't smoke linux
14:13<@peter1138>have you ever tried to malloc MAX_INT?
14:13<Phazorx>perhaps OS imposed restrictions is what sets your limits :)
14:13<Phazorx>peter1138: it is a bad idea
14:15<KUDr>in WinXP it can work (if you have set 3GB of user memory)
14:20<Phazorx>how about MAX_UINT
14:21<Rubidium>might work with PAE
14:23<Rubidium>PAE + AWE for Windows to be exact
14:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: KUDr * r10492 /trunk/src/yapf/follow_track.hpp: -Fix [YAPF, r10491]: commands with no effect (glx)
14:25<KUDr>ohh, wron r...
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14:29<eekee>I'm playin an older game of mine with a less than brilliant track arrangement, & it's showing me just how far the pathfinders have come in the last couple of years
14:29<eekee>It's kinda awesome, hehe
14:30<Rubidium>the only pathfinder that needs attention at this moment is the one for ships I guess
14:33<KUDr>who can edit the log message (svn)
14:34<@Belugas>i think the only onw who can is TrueBrain
14:34<KUDr>who is on vacation..
14:34<KUDr>ok, thanks
14:34<Rubidium>what would need to be changed?
14:35<Rubidium>there are more wrong "-Fix (rxxx)"es
14:35<KUDr>last comment r10491 should be r10489
14:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10493 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: update some callback ID enums to reflect their changed usage, add a few and update the comments.
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15:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10494 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix (r10490): possible null dereference in some exotic newgrfs.
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15:16<Sacro>#define MAYBE_DRAW_SIGNAL(x,y,z,t) if (IsSignalPresent(tile, x)) DrawSingleSignal(tile, t, GetSingleSignalState(tile, x), y - 0x4FB, z)
15:16<Sacro>that confuses me D:
15:17<caladan>u <- micro :>
15:17<Sacro>µ ?
15:18<caladan>in electronics you have to use letter mu, and that greek letter looks similato ro u
15:18<caladan>similar to*
15:18<caladan>like 220uF - means 220 microfahrads
15:20<Sacro>yes, i know
15:20<Sacro>i did do a ND in Electrical Engineering
15:21<caladan>sorry to underestimate you :-)
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15:37<Sacro>excuse you
15:38<Sacro>hmm, i think it's broken
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15:40<Sacro>perhaps i should try and "fix" it
15:40<TrueBrain>you? fix?
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15:45<TrueBrain>boring in here...
15:46<Caemyr>then leave:P
15:46<hylje>there's not enough lol, wut? in here
15:46<hylje>oh, wait
15:46<hylje>i'm a slowpoke
15:46<TrueBrain>Caemyr: won't relaly help :p
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15:51<UnderBuilder>a general question: is possible to play genesis games in nintendo wii?
15:52<@peter1138>sega -> nintendo? hehe
15:52<colle>some genesis games are ported and available through the online-purchase-thingy
15:52<colle>there are probably some emulators available if you have a chipped wii
15:53<colle>yah, vc
15:53<hylje>now we got some proper lol, wut? here
15:53<hylje>it's not like we're a nintendo or sega chan
15:53<@peter1138>maybe he's talking about the band
15:53<colle>sega isn't producing hardware anymore so they take every oportunity to sell some software
15:53<hylje>the band makes games now?
15:54<@peter1138>who knwos
15:54<UnderBuilder>also what do you recommend for gaming, pc or wii?
15:54<@peter1138>it's not like they make music anymore
15:54<hylje>UnderBuilder: there is no ottd for the wii (yet)
15:54<UnderBuilder>I know
15:54<colle>pc if you can afford it
15:55<colle>a consol is a good choice if you're on a budget
15:55<hylje>a handheld console is a very good choice too
15:55<UnderBuilder>and will be hard to play ottd on a wii because there is no keyb / mouse and some functions, specially chatting, will be really hard
15:55<hylje>you got wiimote n nunchuk
15:56<hylje>and chatting is pointless
15:56<colle>yes, I would recommend a nintendo ds
15:56<colle>great games
15:56<hylje>such as?
15:56<hylje>ima waiting for the pokemon ds gaems to arrive
15:56<hylje>and see if i rly want to play em
15:56<colle>new super mario bros, luigi and mario; partners in time, zoo keeper
15:57<colle>and all gba-games
15:57<UnderBuilder>gp2x is a open source(tm) console
15:57<UnderBuilder>console >> handheld
15:58<UnderBuilder>oss games (openttd being one), good emulation...
15:58<@peter1138>crap resolution though
15:58<@peter1138>and 2 CPUs, really useful for ottd :/
15:59<hylje>the DS got two cpus too
15:59<hylje>the other is the gba chip
15:59<@peter1138>gp2x has two ARMs
15:59<@peter1138>both different iirc
15:59<UnderBuilder>DS has got not oss games
15:59<@peter1138>(obviously both)
15:59<@peter1138>is gp2x still ~ 100 quid?
16:00<@peter1138>iirc it doesn't have a touch screen
16:00<@peter1138>which makes ottd tricky again
16:00<hylje>UnderBuilder: theres homebrew gaems for it, so oss games are in
16:00<UnderBuilder>but that is a minory!
16:01<UnderBuilder>btw, has got the nintendo wii a browser / msn messenger?
16:01<colle>opera is available
16:01<colle>no messenger afaik
16:01<UnderBuilder>also, a nintendo DS is more expensive
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16:02<UnderBuilder>more expensive than a gp2x
16:03<colle>a ds is perhaps not as cheap as a gp2x but it''s still not very expensive
16:03<hylje>the DS is a gaming console, and does it very finely
16:04<hylje>for example, the PSP is more like a movie player
16:04<colle>I sold my psp because of the lack of good games
16:05<UnderBuilder>gp2x = good games + good movie player :)
16:05<colle>good emulated games, yes
16:05<colle>all roms
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16:06<UnderBuilder>there is also some ports of oss games
16:06<UnderBuilder>oss needs a competence to consoles
16:06<UnderBuilder>because pc's aren't made for gaming
16:07<colle>pc's wouldn't be what they are today if it wasn't for gaming imo
16:07<colle>but i see what you mean
16:11<UnderBuilder>will be nice if nintendo, sony and why not sega (microsoft not because they suck) (sega needs a revival!) colaborate to create the best videogame console?
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16:11<Sacro>SEGA are no more
16:12<UnderBuilder>I am a sega fan...
16:12<Sacro>does anyone here know much about the signalling stuff in rail_cmd.cpp?
16:12<Sacro>UnderBuilder: me too
16:13<UnderBuilder>how will be sega's response to nintendo's wii, microsoft's xbox360 and sony's ps3
16:13|-|lolman [] has joined #openttd
16:13<Sacro>they don't make consoles
16:13<hylje>sonic team
16:14<UnderBuilder>I am wondering...
16:14<UnderBuilder>woo XD
16:14<UnderBuilder>woohoo XD
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16:14<UnderBuilder>Sega's WooHoo
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16:16<colle>SEGA still exists, but they only make software now
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16:18<hylje>sega ;_;
16:19<UnderBuilder>but never beats on fun my NES ;)
16:19<hylje>spoilers: nes is nintendo
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16:20<UnderBuilder>I know
16:20<UnderBuilder>also, megadrive was great
16:20<colle>either the games were better earlier or I was more easily amused then
16:21<colle>i don't find todays games as much fun :(
16:21<Digitalfox>colle: I totally agree :)
16:21<Digitalfox>This days games aren't mutch fun
16:21<colle>except openttd ofcourse :)
16:21<Digitalfox>Right ;)
16:22<Digitalfox>Most of the games now are just about graphics..
16:22<Digitalfox>Wheres the gameplay and fun? :\
16:22<colle>yes, with some exceptions
16:23<Digitalfox>I mean why isn't there more games that are so fun like TTD?
16:23<colle>I still get flashbacks when I start openttd... I listen alot to bad religion when I played ttd and ultima 8
16:23<colle>listened :<
16:23<colle>so I hear "punk rock song" in my head when I see the start screen in openttd :)
16:24<Digitalfox>eh eh
16:24<Sacro>i remember the first time i played TTO
16:25<colle>that was about the same time I tried the Diablo 1 demo, played that to death actually
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16:25<colle>then I bought the game and played it even more
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16:27<Digitalfox>Sacro, my first time playing TTO was very strange.. I went to a friend house in 1994, on a luch hour, and i saw some crzy thing on his a monitor.. A train going from a station to another and making a strange number in dollars.. Well i asked what game was that and he copy the game to diskttes and told to play at home.. Well i thought why not.. So that was the beggining of a long time of fun...
16:27<Digitalfox>...with TT ;)
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16:27<Sacro>Digitalfox: my dad got a copy of it froma guy at work
16:27<Sacro>him and my mum had just seperated
16:27<Sacro>he went to live with my grandma, and bought a pc
16:28<dihedral>night ladies
16:28<Sacro>and i couldn't play it unless i went to his :(
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16:28<colle>aw :(
16:28<Digitalfox>Sacro: :)
16:28<Sacro>i got pissed off loads cos of no one way signals
16:29<colle>"it's not that i don't like you mum, but dad's got this new game..."
16:29<Sacro>and then i had to get round my grandparents...
16:29<Sacro>it being their house
16:29<Ailure>I had a openTTD game paused for over a week
16:29<Ailure>Being away at parents does that xD
16:30<Digitalfox>I still remember in 95, when i read in some site about ttd.. Oh my, i got all night searching the web for a copy.. ( In that year, things were a lot diferent, there was no stores selling games like now.. Games took months to arrive here )
16:30<colle>*beeing* a parent also does that I can tell you :P
16:33<Sacro>right, whose gonna help me with this...
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16:52<Ailure>you can make the sub to get stuck in land
16:52<Ailure>TTD have a sub easter egg
16:52<Ailure>look under disasters in the manual
16:52<Ailure>although it's not really a disaster
16:52<Ailure>since it dosen't do anything
16:52<Ailure>apart from going around
16:53<Ailure>if you raise land on the tile it's on
16:53<Ailure>it get's stuck
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17:02<@peter1138>"get's" :o
17:02<Sacro>ooh dear...
17:02<Sacro>what should we do with him?
17:02|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*Gamefreak@194.47.44.*] by peter1138
17:02|-|Ailure kicked [#openttd] peter1138 [APOSTROPHE ABUSE!]
17:03|-|mode/#openttd [-b *!*Gamefreak@194.47.44.*] by peter1138
17:03<eekee>monorailcat 2.0!
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17:05<Phazorx>dbg: [grf] [ttrs3w.GRF:5322] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 116 sprites; try
17:05<Phazorx>changing NewGRF order
17:06<Phazorx>hmm... should it be last then, cuz currently it is 1st?
17:06<Phazorx>debug_level 5
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17:29<UnderBuilder>heh. here is snowing (La Plata - Argentina)
17:29<UnderBuilder>(La Plata is near Buenos Aires)
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17:31<UnderBuilder>never saw that before
17:32<izhirahider>lol, I saw that in the news
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19:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10495 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Add the Action 00 property handlers for Industries and Industry tiles
19:11<eekee>oooh o.o
19:12<@Belugas>no... it will not allow newindustries grf to be loaded...
19:13<@Belugas>that's just another brick in the wall
19:13<Sacro>Belugas: and i was just about to test
19:13<@Belugas>altough a big one ^_^
19:13<Sacro>how much further?
19:13<@Belugas>still a lot, but with the help of Rubidium, that "lot" is getting "few"
19:14<@Belugas>he's doing an amazing job :D
19:14<Sacro>he is good
19:14<Sacro>can we keep him. can we!
19:16<@Belugas>i'd say we should keep him for as long as he likes ;)
19:16<@Belugas>And i'm sure he likes it a lot :D
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19:59<@Belugas>ping: Sacro
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10496 /trunk/src/ (41 files in 3 dirs):
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: Replace all the windows for Industry building by a more flexible one.
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks to Csaboka (from TTDPatch dev team) for his hints and original design
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: (which i've found while it was halfway done, so i could make it more compliant
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: ;)). Don't expect it to be a carbon-copy though. A few differences can be
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: found here and there.
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Thanks to Rubidium for his helping hand. Hope you will like it as we do :)
19:59<Sacro>Belugas: pong
19:59<@Belugas>ou can test this one ;)
19:59<@Belugas>without newinduistries...
20:00<Sacro>oh :(
20:00<@Belugas>i'm sure you'll like it
20:00<@Belugas>even without ;)
20:00<Sacro>versionpkg is doing its stuff
20:01<@Belugas>i'm going to do the washing of the dishes
20:01<@Belugas>have fun
20:01<Sacro>whats new?
20:01<Sacro>i've never seen all those newgrf_* files before
20:04<Smoovious>which files?
20:04<Sacro> newgrf_*
20:04<Sacro>i don't see much difference
20:04<Sacro>the build industry window is slightly alteredf
20:06<NukeBuster>can i use floor() in openttd?
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20:07<NukeBuster>i was trying but ended up with: smallmap_gui.cpp:854: fout: ‘floor’ was not declared in this scope
20:07<Sacro>did you declare it?
20:08<NukeBuster>isn,t that done in math.h?
20:08<Sacro>in C maybe...
20:08<+glx>math.h is not include AFAIK
20:09<Sacro>NukeBuster: #include <cmath>
20:09<NukeBuster>ah ok... theirs my problem...
20:10<@Belugas>[21:06] <Sacro> the build industry window is slightly alteredf <--- you call that slightly??? Completely redone, yes!
20:10[~]Belugas sends glasses to Sacro
20:11<Sacro>Belugas: i never really used it :(
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20:23<NukeBuster>doxygen is still down? or did the address change?
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20:25<Digitalfox>belugas, you last two commits are HUGE.. -so much new code :\ Nice work :)
20:28<@Belugas>thanks Digitalfox :)
20:28<@Belugas>Sacro, it's understandable , don't worry ;)
20:28<@Belugas>NukeBuster, what do you mean?
20:29<@Belugas>ho.... i see
20:29<@Belugas>indeed, it seems down
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20:38<+glx>it is empty :/
20:38<@Belugas>not down...
20:38<@Belugas>just empty
20:39<+glx>who stole the files???
20:41<@Belugas>looks like it has not recompiled
20:42<NukeBuster>hmm i notice it a few days ago... and it is certainly handy for looking up functions and classes...
20:47<NukeBuster>anyway i'm off to bed... night
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22:19<Smoovious>how long does it take for waypoint names to dissapear now?
22:19<Smoovious>when b eing d estroyed
22:29<benc_>30 days
22:31<Smoovious>that explains it
22:31<Smoovious>I got days slowed way down
22:55<benc_>is there an archive of pre-r1 source out there?
22:55<benc_>always interesting to see how far an oss project has progressed
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 10 00:00:46 2007