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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-11

---Logopened Wed Jul 11 00:00:27 2007
00:03|-|l_Blue_l [~number_on@CPE-144-136-129-229.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
00:08<l_Blue_l>I was just wondering if anyone knows whats happened to Auto-replace? Where did the button go? Has it just been disabled until a better implermentation of it is complete (e.g designed to be used with Groups)?
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01:06<dihedral>mornin ladies
01:11<@peter1138>hello cunt
01:12<dihedral>screw marjacq
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01:16<@peter1138>burp
01:16<@peter1138>dihedral: oh?
01:16<dihedral>btw - you guys mention that lude was going to reverse engeneer
01:17<@peter1138>hmm?
01:17<dihedral>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/OpenTTD:About
01:18<@peter1138>yeah, and?
01:18<dihedral>orudge i believe said yesterday that as long as nobody admits it...
01:18<dihedral>marjacq had no proof
01:21<@peter1138>1) it wouldn't be that hard for them to find it
01:21<@peter1138>2) we can't stop random people changing the wiki
01:21<dihedral>08:16 <@peter1138> burp << cheers
01:23<TinoDidriksen>Sure you can stop random people changing the wiki; just wouldn't really be a wiki any longer.
01:23<@peter1138>especially not Born_Acorn!
01:23<dihedral>lol - wiki as CMS
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01:28<dihedral>peter1138: read http://locomotion-fanpage.net/forum/thread.php?postid=130992
01:29<dihedral>there is an english part - a quote from guy herbert
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01:32<@peter1138>and?
01:32<@peter1138>what is your point?
01:33<dihedral>i quote "All Chris Sawyer's legal rights are reserved. I'd also ask you to note that such approaches involve by-passing copy protection, which is not just a violation of Chris's rights as an author but in several countries amounts to criminal conduct."
01:33<dihedral>aint a thing they can do :-)
01:34<@peter1138>for some reason you seem to think this is all new to us
01:34<dihedral>lude did the work in sweeden, where this was no "criminal conduct"
01:34<dihedral>no - i am just sharing thoughts :-)
01:38<dihedral>it's new to me - put it that way :-)
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03:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10506 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: the (manual) building of banks was always rejected.
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03:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10507 /trunk/src/table/road_land.h: -Fix [FS#1019]: apparantly we used the wrong sprites for some pieces of the tram catenary (even though TTDP did so too).
03:52<hylje>:o
03:54<@peter1138>o:
03:55<Rubidium>ö
03:57<@peter1138>ő
04:00<hylje>o
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04:00<hylje>"
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05:50<flex_>trunk does not compile on openbsd as there is no vswprintf, adding libutf8 as a dependency i made it compile...
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07:37<Chris82>hi guys :)
07:38<Chris82>I am just working on an up to date version for the subsidiaries patch and I stumbled over a line I don't understand
07:38<Chris82>this is supposed to be added in settings.cpp but I don't understand what for:
07:38<Chris82>+ #define SDT_VAR(base, var, type, flags, guiflags, def, min, max, interval, str, proc)\
07:38<Chris82>+ SDT_CONDVAR(base, var, type, 0, SL_MAX_VERSION, flags, guiflags, def, min, max, interval, str, proc)
07:38<Chris82>also all the patch options are not COND which I think is pretty bad savegame compatibility wise
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07:46<alexalex2>nick
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08:01<Maedhros>Chris82: that should already be in settings.cpp
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08:10<JazzyJaffa>Hi all, is there anyone versed in the codebase that could answer a quick question?
08:10<Noldo>just ask
08:10<Noldo>then we will knoe
08:13<JazzyJaffa>I wish to set to 0 all Track directions in a TrackdirBits that are not compatible with a tile's slope. Is there a quick way? I could probably manage with CheckRailSlope, but I'd have to do it one at a time.
08:14<SmatZ>there is a big magic around all of this stuff ^_^
08:14<blathijs>There's probably an array somewhere, indexed by slope that has all possible TrackdirBits enabled
08:14<blathijs>which you can & together
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08:15<JazzyJaffa>Thats what I was hoping, my bit mapipulation skills aren't exactly leet
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08:18<skidd13>Do I have to mind something If I want to run doxygen to get the documentation?
08:18<JazzyJaffa>Think I can cobble something together by copying from CheckRailSlope, Big Magic here we come
08:20<+glx>skidd13: there's a Doxyfile in trunk
08:21<skidd13>I know, anything else than run doxygen? (I used doxygen the last time a few years ago)
08:22<NukeBuster>Can someone point me to an example on how to use the debug function to show a value i want to monitor
08:22<JazzyJaffa>skidd13: Just tried and a simple "doxygen" at the root of the trunk worked for me
08:22<NukeBuster>?
08:26<skidd13>NukeBuster: src/gfx.cpp line 563 (current trunk)
08:26<NukeBuster>thanks... it's hard to find without doxygen...
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08:43<skidd13>Is there a function to mirror RoadBits? eg. NW -> SE
08:44<blathijs>Not that I know of (though it would be useful, I guess)
08:47<skidd13>I'm not so deep in bit magic. Is a double shift a solution?
08:48<blathijs>I don't think bitshifting is round
08:48<blathijs>ie, it will only shift in 0 at the right
08:49<skidd13>I meant the first 2 bits up, the last two down.
08:49<blathijs>ah, that could work
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08:58<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like (x&0x3)<<2+(x&0xC)>>2?
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>better to use GB() i believe :)
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>GB(x,0,2)<<2+GB(x,2,2)>>2
09:01<Osai^zZz>hi all
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09:01<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
09:01<@Belugas>and spaces hehe ;)
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>spaces are irrelevant :)
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>i am not trying to get a patch commited after all ;)
09:02<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: beware of operator priority
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: << should be a multiplying operator, or not?
09:03<skidd13>To be secure: (RoadBits)((GB(r, 0, 2) << 2) + (GB(r, 2, 2) >> 2))
09:03<SmatZ><< and >> have lower priority than +, -
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>if you say so :)
09:04<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, i was just kidding :)
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>i was not taking you seriously anyway :p
09:06<@Belugas>hehe
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09:49<dihedral>huhu
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10:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10508 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: allow customizable animation schemes for industries.
10:04<Chicago_R_A>nice one, Rubidium
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10:13<Digitalfox>Every time i try to build a bank i have an assertion... Using windows build 10508 on temperate climate :\
10:14<Digitalfox>This is on towns with more than 1200 of population
10:14<Phazorx>openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-public/src/industry_cmd.cpp:125: const IndustryTileSpec* GetIndustryTileSpec(IndustryGfx): Assertion `gfx < INVALID_INDUSTRYTILE' failed.
10:14<Maedhros>yeah, some of us are getting it too, but we have no idea why at the moment
10:15<Digitalfox>Maedhros: ok, will wait for a solution :)
10:15<Rubidium>always nice to have bugs that don't happen on half of the systems, as it reduces the amount of people that can debug and reduces the change it is fixed quickly :(
10:15<Phazorx>there was soemthing about industry tile change recently
10:15<Phazorx>bust strange - that game has 5 industries only
10:16<Phazorx>!openttd commit 10495
10:16<_42_>Commit by belugas :: r10495 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-07-10 00:10:19 UTC)
10:16<_42_>-Codechange: Add the Action 00 property handlers for Industries and Industry tiles
10:17<Digitalfox>Rubidium: True.. Because yesterday with build 10502 i had assertions or the message of not being able to build banks on that spot.. But i cound't figure why some times i had assertions while in the others just the message box :\
10:18<Digitalfox>I'm using TTRS 3.02A, but i don't know if it matters for the case :\
10:18<Noldo>test
10:18<Rubidium>doesn't matter
10:18<Rubidium>it even happens in trunk without any grfs
10:19<Rubidium>I heard (can reproduce it myself with several compilers)
10:20<Digitalfox>I was abble to build a bank right now just by deactivating all newgrf... :\
10:24<Chicago_R_A>Out of curiosity...
10:25<Digitalfox>Rubidium: Just by deactivating TTRS 3.02A i no longer have assertions.. Even with all mu newgrf activated
10:25<Chicago_R_A>If you re-activate TTRS 3.02A does it still work?
10:25<Chicago_R_A>Or does it crash when you re-load it?
10:25<Digitalfox>I think i just asnwer that question ;)
10:26<Chicago_R_A>You stated that it works if you "deactivate" TTRS 3.02A... I was asking about what happens if you turn it back on AFTER building the bank
10:26<Digitalfox>oh.. Will try :)
10:27<Digitalfox>Chicago_R_A: I have an assertion :\
10:28<Digitalfox>If i try to build another bank
10:28<Chicago_R_A>Ok... but after you re-activated it, the first bank loaded properly?
10:28<Digitalfox>yes
10:28<Chicago_R_A>Ok
10:29<Digitalfox>Didn't ttrs 3.02 give new cargo to banks or changes its behavior?
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10:30<Rubidium>Digitalfox: it doesn't
10:30<Digitalfox>ok
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10:34<Digitalfox>Shouldn't ttrs3 replace original banks sprites?
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10:35<Eddi|zuHause>not without newindustries, i believe
10:35<Digitalfox>ok
10:36<Chicago_R_A>Good to know :) I was always wondering about why the banks never looked like they do on Z's website.
10:38<Maedhros>hah, it is ttrs3, after all
10:39<Maedhros>it must be because parts of the newindustries support have been committed, but it isn't finished yet
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10:44<Chicago_R_A>What about banks relates to new industries in TTRS3? I thought it was just a sprite replacement.... obviously I'm wrong :)
10:45<Chicago_R_A>...perhaps I should go back and re-read Z's readme :(
10:46<Maedhros>it was in ttrs2, but i think ttrs3 uses newindustries for the banks (i can't remember why though)
10:46<Chicago_R_A>Thanks
10:47<Digitalfox>But Rubidium didn't you say that assertions also happened without any newgrf?
10:47<@Belugas>thinks so too... but for sure, ttrs3 introduces oil station (or something like that)
10:50<skidd13>I'm working on the town layout again to remove the silly dead ends. But ATM I think I have mistake with my thinking. Can someone help me out the mess? http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30972&start=92
10:52<Arie^>I (might) found a bug, i normally use 5.2 but just tested it in 5.3 rc2 and it was there too. I searched bug spray (don't have an account there) and didn't find the bug there. Now the bug:
10:52<Arie^>When a road occupies a half square it's possible to buy the land without destroying the road. This is the case is you own the road yourself, it also works if I build a scenario in which a town owns a half road and play the scenario.
10:53<Arie^>I know it's minor but it could affect (online) play
10:53<Arie^>If an opponent builds the road and another person buys that road.
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10:59<Maedhros>you can do all sorts of things like that with half roads, for some reason
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11:01<hylje>its working as intended
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11:20<XAVeRY>hello.
11:20[~]XAVeRY has a problem.
11:21<hylje>do tell
11:22<XAVeRY>well, when I choose my language in the options menu
11:22<XAVeRY>some characters appear as "?", what is not nice.
11:22<SmatZ>the same happens for me :(
11:23<hylje>you need fonts
11:23<SmatZ>but I am too lazy to solve that, so I use english...
11:23<XAVeRY>any way to cure this problem?
11:23<XAVeRY>fonts - can you say something more?
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11:23<hylje>no i havent stumbled upon it
11:24<XAVeRY>argh
11:24<hylje>but youre missing glyphs
11:25<XAVeRY>yes
11:25<Sacro>don't people read the READMAE
11:25<Sacro>*README
11:26<hylje>its called README, so no
11:26<XAVeRY>huh.
11:26<hylje>but if it was named DONOTREAD..
11:26<XAVeRY>you make me fly!
11:26<XAVeRY>just seemed too obvious to read the README of OpenTTD.
11:27<Sacro>perhaps we should boot people who ask questions that are answered in the readme
11:27<XAVeRY>surely you should.
11:28<@Belugas>hey... we are men. Men do not need README. They just try ;)
11:28<@Belugas>or so does my wife tells me :D
11:28<XAVeRY>who said that I were a man?
11:28<hylje>you didnt read README
11:29<@Belugas>usual behaviour ;)
11:29<Sacro>daniel tends to be a mans name
11:29<XAVeRY>people tend to put fake data in this "Real Name" thingy.
11:30<@peter1138>well whatever, read the readme and it'll tell you
11:30<XAVeRY>yeah yeah, I know now.
11:30<XAVeRY>thank you very much.
11:30<hylje>np
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11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10509 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp:
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: cache expensive newgrf station variables during
11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: sprite lookups/callbacks.
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11:43<alex>interesting
11:43<alex>i have 10 players on 4 different servers
11:43<alex>and its only using 1% cpu
11:43<alex>i love you openttd + linux
11:43<izhirahider>alex, how about memory taken?
11:44<alex>lemme check
11:44<alex>um
11:44<alex>around 80mb :)
11:46<@peter1138>millibits
11:46<@peter1138>impressive
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11:47<hylje>:o
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12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10510 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-11 19:01:42
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 8 fixed by tucalipe (8)
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 33 fixed by thetitan (33)
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 6 fixed, 81 changed by arnaullv (87)
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (6)
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 6 fixed by glx (6)
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12:09<Wolf01>hello
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12:09<izhirahider>prospecting new primary industries doesn't work with already created savegames :/
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12:14<Maedhros>like most patches, the option is saved with the game, so you have to enable it again when loading old games
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12:40<alex>whats the option to turn on the advanced cargo placment thingy?
12:41<alex>so that goods go into one train, rather than spread out to all of them
12:47<SmatZ>maybe the Advanced loading algorithm?
12:47<SmatZ>gradual_loading = true
12:48<SmatZ>fifo_loading = true
12:48<SmatZ>that's it
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12:48<SmatZ>fifo :)
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>do these two actually get along meanwhile?
12:56<Maedhros>shouldn't they?
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13:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, there used to be this problem of not allowing more than 1 train loading simultaneously
13:10<Maedhros>ah yes. that's fixed anyway, since we have true fifo loading now
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13:17<skidd13>new tile = TILE_ADD(tile, _roadblock_tileadd[0]): _roadblock_tileadd[0] = { 0, -1} //< The new tile is the NW neighbor of tile, isn't it?
13:24<skidd13>???
13:25<@Belugas>i guess it is
13:25<@Belugas>is it?
13:26<skidd13>Hmm, damn I can't get the problem of my patch then. :(
13:27<Noldo>why NW?
13:27<skidd13>{ 0, -1}
13:27<skidd13>just a single part as example.
13:28<@Belugas>what are you up to?
13:28<Noldo>what do those numbers mean?
13:28<@Belugas>first = x, second = y
13:29<@Belugas>so no displacement on the x, one to the "left"
13:29<skidd13>Belugas: the ugly dead ends of the towns -> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30972&start=92
13:29<@Belugas>0,0 = the tile you're at
13:29<Noldo>and x is E-W and y is N-S direction?
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13:30<skidd13>Noldo: No x+ y+ = South x- x- = North AFAIK
13:30<skidd13>x- x- -> x- y-
13:31<skidd13>I meant
13:31<SmatZ>yes, 0,0 is at north
13:32<SmatZ>Belugas: is right ... all of you are right :)
13:32<Noldo>ok
13:33<@Belugas>i see, skidd13
13:33<skidd13>What?
13:34<@Belugas>what you're trying to do :)
13:34<@Belugas>not the solution ;)
13:34<skidd13>Ahh :) Damn :(
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>skidd13: i remember i once tweaked town growth locally by inverting some lookups by adding/removing some ^2
13:35<Wolf01>skidd13, make towns build directly in the adjacent tile and then make the connection with the other road, so you have at least half a road
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>but that might not be what you want
13:37<skidd13>From the point of code I treat every road tile as crossing and crop the unneeded arms off.
13:38<skidd13>But ingame it seems not to work correct. Even in this very early (and simple) state.
13:39<Noldo>what happens?
13:40<skidd13>A 4-way crossing should end up in a 3-way if it's neighbor is an industry tile but I does not do this.
13:40<skidd13>I -> It
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13:51<skidd13>If someone get's a solution, please PM. Thanks. Cya
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14:08<alex>how do you kick / ban someone?
14:08<Wolf01>with /kick and /ban
14:09<Wolf01>oh maybe in the game
14:09<Wolf01>it should be in the clients list
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14:14<alex>how do you enable rcon?
14:14<alex>rcon_password in console in the client?\
14:18<Wolf01>no, in the server
14:21<Wolf01>you should set the rcon password in the server openttd.cfg and then from the client with rcon "pass" "command" you should be able to control the server
14:30<alex>ta
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14:41<alex>whats the command to bring up client id's?
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14:44<Smoovious>alex... help_cmds
14:45<SierraRomeo>hi there
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14:48<Ricardo-fireball>i have something on my heart, it comes from wiki field, is this good place to say such thing ?
14:49<Smoovious>...
14:49<@Belugas>it really depends :)
14:49<@Belugas>but hard to judge without you saying it :D
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14:51<Ricardo-fireball>okay, i'll better fire it up, http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Talk:NewGRF
14:52<alex>can you change server settings while the server is up and running?
14:52<alex>through rcon?
14:52<@peter1138>alex, yes
14:52<alex>peter1138: whats command for station spread?
14:52<@peter1138>patch
14:56<alex>station_spread
14:56<alex>Relaying command: station_spread
14:56<alex>ERROR: command or variable not found
14:56<alex>hmmm
15:01<SmatZ>alex patch station_spread 10
15:01<SmatZ>doesn't work?
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15:04<SpComb>http://openttd.org/screens.php <-- I refuse to beleive that that is a screenshot
15:04<SpComb>perhaps a printed screenshot embedded in a cake, but not a screenshot. Also, it's not in PNG format :P
15:05<SmatZ>:)
15:05<@peter1138>you are slwow
15:05<@peter1138>-w
15:05<SmatZ>slwo?
15:06<SpComb>but did you have a party for r10000?
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15:06<Chris82>hi
15:06<SpComb>was it r10000 counting from the origional r1, or r1 from the new repo? Did you make the r10000 commit from the part? :P
15:06<Chris82>I was looking for an openttd icon graphic, can it be downloaded somewhere?
15:07<SmatZ>Chris82: maybe SVG version is at wiki
15:07<SmatZ>I am not sure
15:07<Chris82>I was browsing the wiki before but was not successful finding anything
15:08<SmatZ>:(
15:09<SmatZ>html/elrail.svg .. the only svg I found
15:12<@peter1138>SpComb: "original", and no, it was from current r1
15:12<@peter1138>and only for some .nl people
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15:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10511 /extra/pngcodec/Makefile: -Fix: a very simple way to allow EXTENSION for pngcodec executable
15:30|-|Osai^Kendo changed nick to Osai
15:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10512 /extra/pngcodec/ (minipng.cpp pngcodec.cpp): -Fix: use stdlib.h, not malloc.h
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15:39<skidd13>I don't get some thread notices from the forum. Is there any WIP?
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15:42<@Belugas>what do you mean?
15:43<@Belugas>we are always on WIP :)
15:44<skidd13>I noticed that there have been some posts after my last visit on a topic which I'm watching. But the forum didn't send me a mail.
15:45<+glx>I used to drag the "new post" icon in a tab but that doesn't work now
15:45<@Belugas>skidd13 : it happened to me too. don't know why
15:48<skidd13>Maybe ECHELON eats our mails. :)
15:49<Sacro>zomg
15:49<Sacro>you know about ECHELON?
15:49<Chris82>skidd13 do you use an ISP mail server?
15:49<Chris82>I've noticed that ASSP only let the forum mails through after I whitelisted them
15:49<skidd13>Sarco: Hmm, who not.
15:50<skidd13>Chris82: No a freemailer.
15:50<Chris82>oh well then they could be easily identified as spam
15:50<skidd13>No, I switched off the sucking spam filter and let icedove do it.
15:53<skidd13>Trunk is realy fast ATM. Have some huge optimisation been included in the recent 50 revs?
15:55<Ailure>Not much of optimizations from what I seen
15:55<Ailure>but there's been some code cleanup
15:55<Ailure>not that I looked in the actual source though
15:56<skidd13>I'd say ~20% faster than 100rev ago. Or maybe it's the compiler update.
15:58<@peter1138>10509 might help a bit, but only with certain newgrf stations that are large
15:59<@peter1138>10505 and 10504 might help a bit too
16:00<@Belugas>tiny little bit...
16:00<@peter1138>*nod*
16:00<@peter1138>every little helps :)
16:00<@Belugas>ho so true :)
16:03<@peter1138>hmm
16:03<@peter1138>possibly 10471 helps if you're on windows
16:03<@peter1138>but
16:03<@peter1138>why am i doing this? :p
16:04<skidd13>It's enough peter... and I'm definitely not on Mr Gates spysystem...
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16:19<@peter1138>SmatZ: good catch, i suspected something there, heh
16:20<@peter1138>wondering if the fix could have any negative side affect
16:20<SmatZ>peter1138: thanks :)
16:20<SmatZ>yes, so do I :)
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16:26<Wolf01>'night
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16:28<SmatZ>i did some tests and it behave ok
16:28<SmatZ>anyway - if there will be any problem, somebody will report it
16:28<@peter1138>true :)
16:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10513 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#1022]: use vehicle subtile position to update cache, not tile, so that collision detection works on bridges and tunnels.
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16:37<@peter1138>SmatZ, micro-optimisation: (x | y) or (x + y)? heh
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16:38<@peter1138>hmm, | is two instructions, + is one
16:38<Rubidium>I'd say that an or is technically simpler (on chip) and might therefor be faster (no carrying of bits etc)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>why would | be two instructions?
16:40<@peter1138>in this case it puts the result in a different register from either original values
16:41<SmatZ>it depends if it needs the new value
16:41<SmatZ>or the compiler is a bit dumb
16:41<@peter1138>mov %esi,%eax then or %edi,%eax
16:41<SmatZ>a I am dumb :)
16:41<@peter1138>versus
16:41<@peter1138>lea (%esi,%edi,1),%eax
16:41<SmatZ>yeah, lea
16:41<SmatZ>so true
16:42<@peter1138>well
16:42<@peter1138>it's gcc, so of course the compiler is dumb :)
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16:42<SmatZ>:)
16:42<SmatZ>well, the lea instruction made a good point
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly does lea do?
16:43<SmatZ>it was intended to compute address of some member of an array
16:43<@peter1138>"load effective address"
16:44<SmatZ>like lea eax,[edx*8+ecx+123] ... it is very powerfull
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>so it's basically a dirty hack ;)
16:44<SmatZ>but it cannot work with memory operands ... add, or can
16:45<SmatZ>and in a i386 architecture with rather few registers, loading operands into registers may slow down the program
16:45<SmatZ>*the
16:45<@peter1138>this is basically an example of CISC
16:46<@peter1138>though probably my definition is wrong ;)
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16:47<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you would probably not find such an instruction on a RISC architecture
16:49<SmatZ>RISC processors may have the MADD instruction
16:49<SmatZ>google : "Conversely, each floating-point execution unit in a typical RISC chip can perform a MADD."
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>but we do not use floats here
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>and floats have the special property of needing both additions (of exponents) and multiplication (of mantissas) at the same time
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>hmz... i need bigger font... too far away from screen...
16:53<SmatZ>true
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16:58<@peter1138>interesting
16:58|-|alienjeff [~alienjeff@24-151-86-073.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #openttd
16:58<SmatZ>I wonder what is this page http://retep.livejournal.com/data/foaf good for
16:58<@peter1138>no idea
16:59<SmatZ>just google indexed it :) sometimes google can find interesting things
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16:59<@peter1138>removing a "& TOTAL_HASH_MASK" causes gcc to use lea instead of or in one place
17:00<SmatZ>it is smart in one place
17:00<SmatZ>TOTAL_HASH_MASK was useless anyway
17:01<@peter1138>i'm assuming "or %edx,%eax" is less cycles than "lea (%edx,%eax,1),%eax" though that is just guessing...
17:02<alex>hmmmm LOL
17:02<alex>server has over 300 planes
17:02<SmatZ>it would depend on the CPU maybe
17:02<alex>10 players
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17:02<alex>and cpu % is only 1.7%
17:03<@peter1138>it's hard trying to figure out what's going on with an optimised build, heh
17:03<SmatZ>but lea should be better as it is evalued in earlier stage
17:03<SmatZ>so it may go without blocking the alu
17:03<@peter1138>hmm
17:03<SmatZ>yes :)
17:03<SmatZ>I read this a long time ago
17:04<SmatZ>maybe it is evaluated earlier, but takes more cycles ... or newer cpus use the same alu
17:04<@peter1138>alex: aircraft go from a to b in a straight line. it's hardly any work at all
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>don't newer processors have 10 alus in parallel anyway?
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17:05<@peter1138>this will be a plain 386 build, i guess
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17:05<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: sure they do :)
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17:06<SmatZ>but if lea was so great, compiler would use 'lea eax,[eax+ebx]' instead of 'add eax,ebx',but it doesn't
17:08<SmatZ>all add/or/... simple alu instructions are executed in one tick
17:08<SmatZ>or less...
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17:09<Eddi|zuHause>it all depends on how effectively you can balance the pipeline(s)
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>with data dependencies and stuff
17:10<SmatZ>so - for AMD64 - LEA takes 2 cycles, ADD takes one cycle
17:10<SmatZ>so add is better
17:11<SmatZ>yes it is true ... but CPUs are rather smart :)
17:11<@peter1138>i miss status register flags in C :(
17:11<SmatZ>a month ago, I got a 20% speed increase just by using cmovcc instead of jcc
17:11<SmatZ>peter1138: :( me too
17:12<SmatZ>detection of overflows is crazy without them
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17:12<@peter1138>yes
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>if c was supposed to be so low level, why wasn't this added?
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17:12<@peter1138>i guess "if (foo == 0)" can use it
17:13<@peter1138>C seems basically to have totally ignored overflows
17:14<SmatZ>http://88.146.45.107/apk/casy3.pdf - some algorithms for fast multiplying
17:15<SmatZ>asm version if naive algorithm was 7 times faster than the one written in C
17:15<SmatZ>just because of the 'adc' instructions to sum long numbers (>64 bits)
17:15<ProfFrink>SmatZ: So why are you working opn openTTD? Come, join the PatchDevs!
17:16<SmatZ>ProfFrink: :) thanks
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17:17<Eddi|zuHause>2^2^24 is not exactly an every day number to multiply with :p
17:18<SmatZ>ProfFrink: I have so few time, and programming in C is faster than in asm
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>i also learned once how to use FFT for (polynomial) multiplication
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17:19<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: so true :)
17:19<SmatZ>it is incredibly fast
17:21<dihedral>g'night ladies
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17:24<SmatZ>anyway - the 'mov eax,edx ; add eax,ebx ' may be faster because of better forwarding
17:24<SmatZ>I don't know
17:24<SmatZ>it is maybe shorter
17:30<@peter1138>nini
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17:36<SmatZ>nini peter1138
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17:43<strstrep>!players
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>ENotAGamingChannel
17:43<strstrep>Oops
17:43<strstrep>Sorry
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17:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10514 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: add support for getting the nearest industry with a given type.
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18:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10515 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Codechange: allow getting some more data about the environment of an industry.
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18:21<Smoovious><Eddi|zuHause> ENotAGamingChannel <--- well, it is... sorta
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it is a development channel...
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19:02<JazzyJaffa>Hi all, is there currently a way to change YAPF's m_max_search_nodes on a "per pathfinder" basis?
19:03<Rubidium>JazzyJaffa: what do you mean exactly with that?
19:03<Rubidium>there is only one YAPF instance
19:04<JazzyJaffa>I thought there was one for each transport type?
19:04<Rubidium>hmm, you might be right
19:04<JazzyJaffa>Currently m_max_search_nodes is set in the constructor and is protected
19:05<JazzyJaffa>I can add a way to modify it, just wanted to avoid duplication
19:05<Rubidium>why is it needed that that can be changed?
19:05<JazzyJaffa>I'm experimenting with YAPF for construction of rail lines
19:07<JazzyJaffa>the default doesn't get you far enough
19:08<JazzyJaffa>YAPF is a really nice piece of code though, very flexible
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21:04<Tensei>anyone out there?
21:04<Tensei>#password
21:05<Tensei>$password
21:05<Tensei>hmmm
21:05<Tensei>hello?
21:07<_Ben_>hello
21:07<Tensei>i have a quick question, think you can help?
21:08<_Ben_>I dought it, but say it anyway, as others may be lurking/read it later
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21:09<Tensei>It's a realitvly stupid question.. can you transport coal by truck to a depot, then have a boat pick it up?
21:09<Tensei>i can't seem to get it to work
21:09<Sacro>transfer yeah
21:09<_Ben_>yep, just make the tuck transfer the coal
21:09<iPandaMojo>yes, although the depot and the dock need to be part of the same station
21:09<_Ben_>tuck/truck
21:09<Tensei>how do you get that to happen?
21:09<iPandaMojo>And yeah, the truck needs unload orders @ the transfer point
21:10<iPandaMojo>Might want your boats on full load too
21:10<Tensei>i built them within 2 squares and they were differn't
21:10<iPandaMojo>Rebuild then :)
21:10<Tensei>what's the rule? next to each other :-)?!
21:10<iPandaMojo>yeah
21:10<Tensei>i see
21:10<iPandaMojo>You can chain them along though, and then destroy the ones in the middle
21:10<+glx>but you can use station walking
21:10<iPandaMojo>If you really like that spot
21:10<iPandaMojo>:D
21:11<iPandaMojo>(otherwise known as station walking, yes :) )
21:11<Tensei>well my dock is name#1, my station is name#2, i've built the station right next to the dock, names don't change, do i have to blow up and start over?
21:12<SmatZ>hmm 4am and there are many active people... world is big :)
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21:12<Tensei>10:12 here
21:12<Tensei>i get an error
21:12<Tensei>adjacent loading/unloading building or something like that
21:13<_Ben_>If the station/depot/docks are linked then there should be 1 coloured strip with the name, and it should have 2 symbols, 1 for each type of loading/unloading station
21:14<Tensei>when i blew up the dock it let me rebuild next to the station.. thanks :-)
21:17<_Ben_>cool, night
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22:54<Smoovious>gotta be a better way to upgrade semaphores to electrics without having to remove em
22:55<Smoovious>especially with the GUI now
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 12 00:00:35 2007