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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-13

---Logopened Fri Jul 13 00:00:18 2007
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03:32<alex_>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM #### SFW - awesome nature video you must see this!!
03:33<TrueBrain>@kick alex_ get lost
03:33|-|alex_ kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [get lost]
03:33<Sionide>weird
03:33<Sionide>SFW youtube spam, that is just strange
03:33|-|tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B818C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
03:35|-|alex_ [~joe@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #openttd
03:35<alex_>fine.
03:36<alex_>7million views on youtube video, and its not good enough for #openttd? next time i wont post teh linky ;P
03:37<TrueBrain>if we want to see youtube videos that are "so popular", we go and visit the website ourself. Next time it won't read 'kick', but an other 3 letter word.
03:38<TrueBrain>reminds me: good morning people
03:38<blathijs>Good morning TrueBrain
03:38<blathijs>Good to see you :-)
03:38<TrueBrain>:) It's alive! ALIVE!!
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03:40<alex_>TrueBrain, look at the video, its fucking awesome
03:40<TrueBrain>@op
03:40|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
03:40<alex_>nothing youve seen in nature videos before :)
03:40|-|mode/#openttd [+b alex_!*@*] by TrueBrain
03:40|-|alex_ kicked [#openttd] TrueBrain [Go kick]
03:40<@TrueBrain>blabla
03:41<@TrueBrain>hmm... my IRC client can't even normally ban people...
03:43|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] by TrueBrain
03:43|-|mode/#openttd [-b alex_!*@*] by TrueBrain
03:43<@TrueBrain>weird IRC client
03:43<@TrueBrain>really
03:44<@peter1138>:o
03:46<Biff>what client?
03:47<@TrueBrain>Konversation
03:47<@TrueBrain>doesn't allow any real configuration
03:47<@TrueBrain>not even log rotate over days...
03:47<Biff>aha
03:47<Biff>irssi <3
03:48<Biff>beeing sick and going on vacation tomorrow, not so good :(
03:48<@TrueBrain>:s
03:48<@TrueBrain>where does the vacation go to?
03:48<Rubidium>yeah, Konversation always fails on a headless machine without any X libraries
03:48<Biff>tunisia
03:48<@TrueBrain>not bad :)
03:49<Biff>seems very nice
03:49<Biff>we have very bad weather here in norway
03:50<@TrueBrain>hehe
03:50<@TrueBrain>in some parts of the world they have fires really big
03:50<@TrueBrain>the others parts flood
03:50<@TrueBrain>dunno
03:50<@TrueBrain>sounds like a good OpenTTD scenario
03:51<Biff>hehe
03:54<Gekko>why was alex_ banned?
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03:55<Gekko>oh
03:55<Gekko>i see.
03:55<Gekko>spam.
03:55<@TrueBrain>and worse: continuing spam after a really clear warning
03:56<Biff>for some reason i just have to watch the video he posted :-P
03:57<@TrueBrain>and for some reason my NoAI is doing some pretty strange stuff :s
04:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10533 /branches/noai/ (110 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r10460:r10532.
04:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10534 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r10533: update regression output
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04:46|-|mode/#openttd [-b *!*@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] by TrueBrain
04:48|-|alexalex [~alexalex@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #openttd
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05:08<Digitalfox_Notebook>I understand why you kicked him TrueBrain :) But the video is pretty cool ..
05:10<Rubidium>Digitalfox_Notebook: "nature" videos usually point to porn
05:10<Digitalfox_Notebook>Rubidium: True :)
05:10<Rubidium>and this is not a channel to post porn links in
05:10<Digitalfox_Notebook>very true
05:12<Digitalfox_Notebook>When creating a newgrf set, how do we know what GRFID to give, and avoiding having one already used by other set? :\
05:16<Rubidium>don't know, but I've got the feeling it's just a gamble whether it's already used
05:16<Rubidium>but the first two bytes are usually the same for each author
05:16<Rubidium>like PikkaBird's stuff always has 4444xxxx
05:17|-|Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd
05:17<Digitalfox_Notebook>I see.. And it makes sence... Thanks..
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05:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10535 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: set _current_player also for dying AI (tnx Rubidium for the help!!)
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05:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10536 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/run.sh src/video/null_v.cpp): [NoAI] -Add: added option for null-driver to configure how long it should run (-vnull:ticks=10000)
05:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10537 /trunk/src/video/null_v.cpp: -Backport r10536: added option for null-driver to configure how long it should run (-vnull:ticks=10000)
05:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10538 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicleStationList, which lists all stations a vehicle goes to
05:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10539 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_stationlist.hpp: [NoAI] -Documentation: added some comments for AI(Vehicle)StationList
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06:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10540 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIStationVehicleList, which lists all vehicles that go to a given station
06:04<@TrueBrain>k, that should be enough to make profitable lines with RV :)
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06:13<Eddi|zuHause3>so it is now capable of replacing the old new ai?
06:21<@TrueBrain>besides a pathfinder, which is possible in SQ itself, yes
06:22<@TrueBrain>oh, and it misses support for bridges and tunnels
06:22<@TrueBrain>minor details :)
06:25<@TrueBrain>but now first: Traveler
06:27<Sionide>ahhhh crap
06:27<Sionide>i'm rubbish and doing RRLL mainlines :(
06:27<Sionide>at*
06:28<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, because it should be LLRR :)
06:29<Eddi|zuHause3>but trying LRLR could be fun also
06:30<@TrueBrain>LRRL :)
06:30<Sionide>hmm
06:35<@TrueBrain>LRDRL :p (D = Double Direction)
06:37<Sionide>the mainline has always been RL, now i'm having to change all the junctions
06:37<Sionide>arrgghhh
06:37<Sionide>heh
06:39<@TrueBrain>playing OpenTTD... I didn't do that in a long while..
06:40<Digitalfox_Desktop>O_O
06:40<Digitalfox_Desktop>Go play TrueBrain.. Hey you deserve the fun ..
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06:41<@TrueBrain>fun fun... what is fun.... :p
06:42<Digitalfox_Desktop>9_9
06:42<@TrueBrain>8_8
06:42<Digitalfox_Desktop>It didn't show an emoticon?
06:42<@TrueBrain>I refuse!
06:43<Digitalfox_Desktop>heh
06:43<blathijs>#mep emoticons
06:43<blathijs>smileys ftw!
06:43<Digitalfox_Desktop>fine go make some new features for openttd lol
06:45|-|Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
06:48<@TrueBrain>Digitalfox_Desktop: did enough NoAI for one day :p
06:48<Digitalfox_Desktop>Sure did :)
06:48<Rubidium>TrueBrain: there is already somebody who wrote a pathfinder in SQ, so it should be fairly easy to make nice AIs with fairly little effort
06:48<@TrueBrain>yup
06:49<@TrueBrain>local city routes I already have
06:54<Rubidium>TrueBrain: I meant pathfinder for new inter city routes
06:55<@TrueBrain>I know
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07:06<alex__>um
07:06<alex__>which packages do you need agian for openttd to run in *nix?
07:08<@TrueBrain>I hate Traveler... it always ends when it just got good!
07:08<Rubidium>alex__: see wiki
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10541 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy.h saveload.cpp):
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1028]: cargo payment rates overflow.
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: cargo payment rates diverge from cost rates making it impossible to make any profit after a certain number of years.
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Both are solved by stopping the inflation after 170 years; there is absolutely
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: no point in continueing the inflation after that as it only makes the game have
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: overflows at some point that cannot be solved; using larger variables only
07:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: delays the inevitable.
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07:14<Sionide>hmm
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07:16<Sionide>if i'm getting graphics glitches with stuff being able to go under bridges, should i make a bug report about it?
07:18<Maedhros>there's already a bug about it iirc
07:18[~]Sacro|Laptop had a genius plan when he was sleeping
07:19[~]Sacro|Laptop attemps to implement it
07:19|-|TinoM [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
07:21<Sionide>Sacro|Laptop, what is it? :)
07:21<Sacro|Laptop>Sionide: i do not wish to tell :) suffice to say, i probably won't be able to acheive it
07:23<@TrueBrain>so tell people and maybe they like it and to finish it :p
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07:23<Sacro|Laptop>i want to start it myself :(
07:24<@TrueBrain>and I wish my new DVD+R DL were in...
07:24<@TrueBrain>takes for ever to order them
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07:27<blathijs>TrueBrain: Are those a bit more affordable lately?
07:27<@TrueBrain>not in the NL
07:28|-|Digitalfox_Desktop_ [~Digitalfo@bl10-64-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
07:28<@TrueBrain>otherwise they are 2,50 per DVD
07:28<@TrueBrain>which is far less then 60 euro :p
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07:43|-|mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
07:51<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought DL were more like 1€
07:53<@TrueBrain>hahaha
07:54<Eddi|zuHause3>what?
07:54<Noldo>plaah, it's raining
07:54<@TrueBrain>try finding them for 1 euro :p
07:54<@TrueBrain>(verbatim, that is)
07:54<Sacro|Laptop>Noldo: yes... i'm getting worried about flooding
07:54<Digitalfox_Desktop>It's a shame there aren't DL rewritable DVD's .. :(
07:54<Eddi|zuHause3>why would it have to be verbatim?
07:55<@TrueBrain>because most others work poorly in my XBox :p
07:55<Noldo>Sacro|Laptop: I'm not. There is so much lake area here that it would take quite a lot of rain for anything to flood
07:56<Noldo>But it would nicer to cycle home if it didn't
07:57<Digitalfox_Desktop>I actually got scamed with 10 ones ( didn't follow the development of DL and always thought there also DL Rewritable ..) So i bought 10 for 29€ ( yes in portugal DL are expensive ) But SL are like 30 cents each..
07:59<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, ebay says it has 20 for ~27€, but from USA ...
08:01|-|Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
08:01<Eddi|zuHause3>but there are a lot of cheaper brands...
08:02<Digitalfox_Desktop>The problem is that mail shipping becomes expensive, if ordering for portugal.
08:02<@TrueBrain>I order in from Germany, around 26 euro for 10
08:03<@TrueBrain>still better than the 55 euro for 10 overhere :p
08:03<Digitalfox_Desktop>And mail services are a little stupid.. Let's just say they have the habbit of losing a lot of stuff..
08:03<Eddi|zuHause3>25 for 22,90€ (from austria)
08:03<Eddi|zuHause3>(not verbatim)
08:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10542 /trunk/src/video/ (null_v.cpp null_v.h): -Codechange: use class member instead of global variable for null ticks value
08:05<@TrueBrain>bah, I need to keep track of my routes in order to find a depot that is good enough...
08:05<@TrueBrain>AIs always get rapidly more complex
08:05<Eddi|zuHause3>50 for 70€ (Platinum, although i once bought those and they don't work in my burner, only in my friend's burner)
08:06<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, are trains defined with a class...
08:06<Sacro|Laptop>or do i need to rewrite a shedload of stuff
08:09<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, 10 for 8€...
08:09<Eddi|zuHause3>and even from my city...
08:09<Sacro|Laptop>http://www.b3ta.com/links/beer_beer_beer
08:10<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro|Laptop: i think stillunknown did something with trains and classes
08:10<Sacro|Laptop>Eddi|zuHause3: hmm, might have to look into it
08:10<@TrueBrain>wow, I have an AI that only makes inner-city connections, and makes profit :)
08:10<@TrueBrain>it even manages the lines just fine :)
08:11<@TrueBrain>haha, 20 vehicles to serve one station :)
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08:17<@TrueBrain>34k pound RV income in 1 year
08:17<@TrueBrain>how nice
08:18<@TrueBrain>61k in the second year :)
08:20<Eddi|zuHause3>do you handle scaling by difficulty level?
08:20<ln->hmmmmm, a genuine copy of TTD ordered [x]
08:20<Eddi|zuHause3>"10 things i want to do before my midlife crisis?"
08:21<SmatZ>ln-: how?
08:21<Sacro|Laptop>SmatZ: they are available
08:22<Sacro|Laptop>i saw a copy for £2.99 in a second hand shop in town
08:22<Eddi|zuHause3>that's what? ~5€?
08:22<SmatZ>ah, second hand
08:22<ln->well, this is supposed to be a new one.
08:23<ln->amazon.co.uk
08:23<Eddi|zuHause3>"new" as in "never used"?
08:24<ln->"new" as in "New & Sealed."
08:25<Eddi|zuHause3>so "new" as in "i found this in a box of never sold items in the corner of my warehouse"
08:25<ln->yeah.
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08:26<@TrueBrain>wow, my AI is still alive after 20 years
08:26<SmatZ>Transport Tycoon Deluxe (Win95/98/ME)
08:26<SmatZ>Still available as a budget title in the UK and US (Try Amazon's UK mail order web site - See link below)
08:26<@TrueBrain>with 100k pound RV income a year
08:30<Sacro|Laptop>SmatZ: who is the publisher?
08:31<Sacro|Laptop>mm, expensive
08:31<Sacro|Laptop>errr... "Transport Tycoon And Transport Tycoon Deluxe Collection! Now On XP!
08:31<Sacro|Laptop>by Atari "
08:31<Sacro|Laptop>that sounds worrying
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08:34<@peter1138>14:23 < SmatZ> Transport Tycoon Deluxe (Win95/98/ME)
08:34<@peter1138>hhe
08:34<@peter1138>yay for the windows version :D
08:34<Sacro|Laptop>i love the fact that the sponsored link is an abandonware site with the full download available
08:34<Sacro|Laptop>zomg no it's not
08:34<Sacro|Laptop>its classicgameingpresents
08:34<Sacro|Laptop>not CGN D:
08:35<Sacro|Laptop>hmm, and I wonder how they acheived XP compatability
08:36<Sacro|Laptop>£4.99. do i risk it
08:36<Sacro|Laptop>and would it be a legal copy
08:36<Maedhros>ln-: just to let you know, that'll probably be the DOS version (if it's the same one I got from Amazon, at least)
08:37<Sacro|Laptop>Maedhros: i think its the WIn one
08:38<Sacro|Laptop>i'm sure Replay was windows
08:38<Maedhros>replay, as in the people who tend to sell things in yellow packaging?
08:38<Digitalfox_Desktop>" Transport Tycoon And Transport Tycoon Deluxe Collection! Now On XP!
08:38<Digitalfox_Desktop>by Atari " but "Availability: This item is not in stock or has been discontinued." lol
08:38<Maedhros>cos they sold me the dos version ;)
08:38<Maedhros>which does work on 9x, btw
08:39<Eddi|zuHause3>i think i played the dos version on ME
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08:41<Sacro|Laptop>hmm
08:41<Sacro|Laptop>someone here is selling Transport Giant as Transport Tycoon
08:42|-|lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:43<Sacro|Laptop>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Transport-Tycoon-TT-Deluxe-For-Win-XP_W0QQitemZ180138175311QQihZ008QQcategoryZ11053QQcmdZViewItem
08:43<Sacro|Laptop>that looks suspect
08:43<Sacro|Laptop>not only has he used JPEG not PNG, but its an OpenTTD screenshot
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08:46[~]peter1138 got TTDwin with Tycoon Collection
08:46<@peter1138>or something like that
08:46<@peter1138>had TTD, RCT and RT2
08:46<Sacro|Laptop>should we do anything about people selling OpenTTD?
08:47|-|Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
08:48<Sacro|Laptop>hmm
08:48<Sacro|Laptop>is it legal to sell a copied game so long as you state its not an original>
08:48<lolman>Sacro|Laptop: no
08:49<Digitalfox_Desktop>I think not.. About doing something.. Atari or CS may take that on the other way.. :\
08:49<Sacro|Laptop>well people are doing it on eBay
08:49<Sacro|Laptop>with Transport Tycoon, and Pizza Tycoon
08:49<lolman>Sacro|Laptop: selling copies is worse than buying them
08:50<izhirahider>remember OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0.
08:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10543 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIStationListCargoRating as valuator for a station list
08:50<Sacro|Laptop>yes i know
08:50<Sacro|Laptop>izhirahider: yes... so he has to produce source if i contact him?
08:51<izhirahider>See the file 'COPYING' included with the source :)
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08:55<ln->i'll let you know whether it was the dos version or not.
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09:13<Mizipzor>to regain popularity in a town, can i erase all the trees around it and then rebuild them to make the town happy?
09:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10544 /branches/noai/ (13 files in 4 dirs):
09:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustryList to list industries
09:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustry::GetProduction, to get the production of a certain cargo of the industry
09:17<Digitalfox_Desktop>Yes, that's what i do :)
09:17<Digitalfox_Desktop>Offcourse theres also the bribe ;)
09:17<Eddi|zuHause3>that should get fixed at some point
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09:19<Digitalfox_Desktop>Don't know how.. Since if you already have 0 points at local authority you can't get down more.. So by destroying more theres no penalization ..
09:19<Digitalfox_Desktop>Only if the value becames negative, like -1000
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09:27<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: I think it won't get fixed http://bugs.openttd.org/task/508
09:27<SmatZ>and ... I like this behavior :)
09:27<Eddi|zuHause3>it's a cheat...
09:29<izhirahider>Sacro|Laptop, yes, I think so
09:31<@TrueBrain>so, now I am bored :p
09:34<alex__>i bribed a town that i moved tons and tons of dirt around
09:35<alex__>and i needed to build a station near it
09:35<alex__>so i bribed the town... to no effect :(
09:36<@Belugas>TrueBrain, maybe give a hand to Rubidium with the stringcodes of ttdpatch for newindustries? poor guy is running crazy on them :)
09:36<@Belugas>i thinkt that should quite occupy you!
09:37<@TrueBrain>hehe :)
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09:38<@TrueBrain>I have no idea what stringcodes are :p
09:39<Rubidium>think of it as {STRING} {NUM} etc
09:39<@TrueBrain>ah! How did they solve it?
09:40<Rubidium>which read from a "stack" and there are like get word from stack and print a {NUM} and get byte from stack and print as {NUM} together with "rotate top 4 words on the stack" or "push word on stack"
09:41|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^Kendo
09:42<Rubidium>which is *very* funny because some strings we must handle in our system, i.e. replace the "get word from stack and print as {NUM}" with just "get value from the dparams and print as {NUM}", but in other cases we need to emulate that TTDP stack as we get the (raw) data from a newgrf
09:43<@TrueBrain>.....
09:44<@TrueBrain>good luck :p
09:44<@peter1138>we replaced the byte-based stack with int64s
09:44<@peter1138>(via int32 for most of history)
09:44<Rubidium>peter1138: I know that, but callback 3A assumes the byte-based stack
09:44<@peter1138>yeah
09:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10545 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_industry.cpp ai_industry.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: GetProduction doesn't return a tile, but a value (tnx glx)
09:44<@peter1138>hmm
09:45<@peter1138>i guess you need to pre-parse the string to unpack the arguments, or something
09:46<Rubidium>peter1138: but then... you've got a push word on stack
09:46<@peter1138>:o
09:46<Rubidium>and you've got substrings that might push that word on the stack too
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09:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10546 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1026]: you can now have both Available Train as Available Ship window open
10:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10547 /trunk/src/date.cpp: -Fix: when Cheat-Window is open and a new month happens, the window wasn't redrawn instantly
10:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10548 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1020]: don't segfault when you quit in the end-of-the-game screen
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10:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10549 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1031]: wrong tram catenary poles drawn in some bridge directions.
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10:32<alex__>when approx is the next version being released?
10:32<alex__>:)
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10:34<@peter1138>when it's ready
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10:36<alex__>ok
10:36<Eddi|zuHause3>probably not this week :p
10:36<alex__>what usually generates the new release?
10:37<alex__>time? or the build up of code changes?
10:37<Eddi|zuHause3>mood of the lead dev
10:39<alex__>ah, ok :)
10:43<Eddi|zuHause3>or pherhaps cosmic dust :)
---Logclosed Fri Jul 13 10:56:17 2007
---Logopened Fri Jul 13 10:56:19 2007
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10:56|-|Ekipa kanalu #openttd: Wszystkich: 86 |-| +op [5] |-| +voice [2] |-| normalnych [79]
10:57|-|Kanal #openttd zsynchronizowany w 75 sekundy
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11:25<Wolf01>hello
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11:30[~]Sacro|Laptop considers hacking apart the vehicle class
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11:42<Mizipzor>is a upslope on a bridge easer on the train than a upslope on terrain?
11:44<Eddi|zuHause3>why would it?
11:47<Mizipzor>dunno, i friend is trying to convince me :p but i cant prove him wrong
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11:53<@Belugas>Mizipzor, a bridge may have a speed limit, while the terrain will only slowdown because of the slope-tracting effort and so on
11:54<@Belugas>although, the "slope" of the bridgehead is certainly shorter then most terrain slopes ;)
11:54<Mizipzor>Belugas, yea, but on an upslope, i guess a train will rarely slow down more due to the effect of the bridge than the slope
11:55<SmatZ>Mizipzor: I did a test ... and in this test, bridges were better than hills
11:55<Mizipzor>SmatZ, wierd... well i guess i was wrong then
11:56<SmatZ>yes, weird... maybe my test was not that what you actually mean
11:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10550 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt hungarian.txt slovak.txt traditional_chinese.txt):
11:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-13 18:55:52
11:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 3 fixed by Neonox (3)
11:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 fixed by miham (2)
11:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovak - 6 fixed by lengyel (6)
11:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 6 fixed by xbddc (6)
11:57<SmatZ>Mizipzor: http://88.146.45.107/ttd/bridge
11:57<SmatZ>the trains started in the same moment
11:57<SmatZ>and this is after some time
11:57<SmatZ>maybe the difference is somewhere else
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12:10<Mizipzor>SmatZ, yes thats what i mean
12:12<Digitalfox_Desktop>I just did the same in the screenshot in last nightly and after a while one of trains gains advantage over the other !!
12:17<Digitalfox_Desktop>I always thought it was the same :\
12:17<Mizipzor>Digitalfox_Desktop, me to
12:18<Digitalfox_Desktop>Wait.. I did test it some months ago and i'm pretty sure it was the same..
12:18<Digitalfox_Desktop>months or maybe years
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12:31<Phazorx>question what can be taking a lot of CPU power if all vehicles are stopepd?
12:32<Rubidium>not all vehicles are actually stopped?
12:32<Phazorx>well the been still for a while
12:32<Phazorx>i can see it from money counter
12:32<Phazorx>map has 5 cities and 5 industries
12:33<Phazorx>taking 80% power of briantetas box now
12:33<Phazorx>towns are huge tho
12:33<Phazorx>so are amount of waiting pax at stations
12:33<Rubidium>are you sure it's that instance of OTTD?
12:33<Phazorx>Rubidium: Ammller looing at top atm
12:33<Phazorx>i'll log in too i guess
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12:35<Wolf01>did you see the route planner patch in the forum?? really impressive
12:36<Noldo>link?
12:36<Rubidium>all he did was writing the appropriate cost calculation functions for YAPF and YAPF did the "real" work
12:36<Wolf01>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=33054
12:36<@TrueBrain>still, it is a very nice idea :)
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12:39<Noldo>a bit like saying TCP is nothing it's IP doing all the work
12:43<Rubidium>Noldo: no, TCP is (much) more than a "simple" cost calculation change
12:45<Eddi|zuHause3>it could very well be an important step for AI development
12:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd suggest porting it to road and try to include it in the NoAI
12:51<ln->http://kapsi.fi/~anpurola/temp/1184318230469.jpg
12:52<+glx>how many of these are floating in the sea now?
12:53<Rubidium>I wouldn't have stacked them that way
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12:55<Phazorx>Rubidium: are city tiles and chanhing them is a CPU killer ?
12:56<@peter1138>in english?
12:56<Rubidium>don't know
12:56<Phazorx>peter1138: current coopers ganme
12:56<Phazorx>have 250 stopped trams and 200 stopped trains
12:56<Phazorx>5 towns 4 industries
12:56<Phazorx>eats 70% CPU
12:57<Rubidium>and when you pause it?
12:57<Phazorx>some stations have 1 mil of passengers waiting though
12:58<Phazorx>well lemme try but i'd assume 0
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12:58<@peter1138>1 mil o?
12:58<@peter1138>+f
12:58<@peter1138>heh
12:58<Eddi|zuHause3>mil == thousand...
12:58<skidd13>The internal x-axis is NW-SE and the y-axis NE-SW, is it?
12:58<Phazorx>now, 980,000
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>no, the other way round, skidd13
12:59<@peter1138>1 million passengers. no 'of' and not 'mil'
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>x is from NE to SW
12:59<Phazorx>when paused - 0
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>y is from NW to SE
12:59<Phazorx>AP uses 0.3 tho
12:59<Eddi|zuHause3>N being the top of the screen
13:00<skidd13>N is clear but I wasn't sure wich axis is which.
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>take your right hand (thumb=x, index=y, middle=z)
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>turn it so that z is up, x is towards your left, y is towards your right
13:02<Eddi|zuHause3>most 3D coordinate systems follow the right hand rule
13:03<skidd13>I know this rule, but wasn't sure cause then the land info tooltip shows x on 2nd pos. :)
13:03<Phazorx>so ince again what can put such stress on CPU when nothing is mvoing ?
13:05<@peter1138>loads of things
13:05<@peter1138>cargo arriving at a station can cause the station to be redrawn, for example
13:06<@peter1138>skidd13: no, X is first pos on land area info
13:07<Phazorx>train are not moving, so cargo arrives only local and stations are packed for a while already is there sprite animation that differencistaes 990000 and 1000000 ?
13:07<@peter1138>we don't do station sprite animation
13:09<Phazorx>"we" ?
13:09<@peter1138>ottd
13:09<Phazorx>well i kinda assumed that grfs can only use features that are available in engine
13:09<Phazorx>regardless most stations are kisyt default ones ratehr than fancy
13:09<@peter1138>kisyt?
13:09<Phazorx>so they dont have that much of animation capacity
13:10<Phazorx>"just default"
13:10<Phazorx>there are 113 RR stations there though
13:10<@peter1138>when using the default stations only, it is not redrawn
13:10<@peter1138>(that is per station)
13:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10551 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/api/squirrel_export.awk squirrel_helper.hpp): [NoAI] -Add: added SQ support for "void *"
13:11<Phazorx>i understand so most liktley since it is not being done can not use 70% CPU
13:11<Ammller>peter1138: town itself?
13:11<@peter1138>well
13:11<@peter1138>why don't you profile it?
13:12<Ammller>there are much houses on the map, about 1Miil habitants
13:12<Eddi|zuHause3>Phazorx: animation != changing on special occasion
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13:14<@peter1138>although it (when we support it) is triggered only certain events
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13:20<Phazorx>i'll profile the save i guess
13:21<Phazorx>but i forgot config option for that...
13:23<skidd13>Hmm, now after fixing the axis of my code it sucks less but only the west-side is treated right. Damn. Does the command CMD_BUILD_ROAD optimise it's input?
13:41<Phazorx>grrr.. what config flag i need for profiling ?
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13:45<Tlustoch>Can someone tell me how is the price calculated? Stations distance or squares passed by the vehicle?
13:46<Eddi|zuHause3>Tlustoch: station distance (manhattan)
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13:47<Tlustoch>So going from upper corner to down corner is the biggest distance = highest price?
13:48<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, something like that
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13:52<JazzyJaffa>Wolf01: Thanks for the comment on the route planner, it works ok when you have bags of ram and don't mind waiting as a single player, but I don't think its ready for AI!
13:54<JazzyJaffa>YAPF is doing most of the work as Rubidium says, for something usable you'd need to do a lot more work
13:55<Eddi|zuHause3>well, it's probably similar to the ship pathfinding, there are too many options
13:57<JazzyJaffa>Indeed, you get millions of options
13:57<JazzyJaffa>BTW Would YAPF for ships be viable if the whole route was cached?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, it would probably reduce load very much if pathfinder is not called on every tile
13:59<Eddi|zuHause3>but on every change of a water tile you have to clear all caches and recalculate
14:00<JazzyJaffa>Only on an add of a water tile
14:00<Eddi|zuHause3>no, also if the path is blocked by raising land
14:01<JazzyJaffa>For loss of water you could check if the ship passed through (pretty rare)
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, but you have to check all ships and all future tiles of each ship
14:01<Eddi|zuHause3>and see if it matches the tile(s) you changed
14:02<JazzyJaffa>and for an add of water you would only need to check if the new tile had >1 water neighbours
14:02<Eddi|zuHause3>you usually have 2 water neighbours
14:04<Eddi|zuHause3>there are two possible ways to solve the ship issue
14:04<JazzyJaffa>ah ha! i think you can get round that - I need to draw it out
14:04<Eddi|zuHause3>a) implement ship routes between buoys, ships can only travel along those routes
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>b) find a region based pathfinder, that can handle large numbers of equivalent routes
14:05<Eddi|zuHause3>(squares of water)
14:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10552 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1034, r10546]: opening Available Aircrafts segfaulted
14:06<Eddi|zuHause3>of course regions are easier to find on water than on land (for track building), so it might not help much there
14:07<skidd13>What about nature examples for the pathfinder? I remember something like that from my technical material lessons. The "Gummibandmodell" for dislocation movements in a crystalline structure.
14:08<JazzyJaffa>I think this works: You remember each new water tile since last re-calc and only recalc if the new water tile has 1> "old water" tiles
14:08<JazzyJaffa>thats the only case where a shorter route could be made
14:09<JazzyJaffa>opps >1
14:11<Eddi|zuHause3>like i said, flooding usually has "diagonal" edges, so most new water tiles have 2 old water tiles next to them
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14:12<+glx>[20:42:02] <Phazorx> grrr.. what config flag i need for profiling ? <-- configure --enable-profiling
14:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10553 /branches/noai/ (11 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added a framework for AIPathFinder() and implemented a really stupid AIPathFinderStupid()
14:13<Eddi|zuHause3>and you can try to optimise pathfinding by doing an approximate search first for intermediate points (like distance ~3 tiles), and then only calculate
14:13<Phazorx>glx: thanks
14:13<Eddi|zuHause3>path between the intermediate tiles
14:14<Eddi|zuHause3>but you loose accuracy there
14:14<Phazorx>i got that part already tho - running game with -D will do 1000 tiicks right ?
14:14<Rubidium>no, it will start the dedicated server
14:14<+glx>no -v null does that
14:14<+glx>and it's configurable no
14:14<Phazorx>ahh good thanks
14:15<+glx>*now
14:15<Phazorx>"now" ?
14:15<Rubidium>yes, since a few revs
14:15<Eddi|zuHause3>what i mean, if you have a spot (x0,y0) and a spot (xend,yend), you choose a spot in [x0-delta,x0+delta]x[y0-delta,y0+delta] that is nearest to the target
14:16<Eddi|zuHause3>then calculate a route
14:16<Eddi|zuHause3>and move on from there
14:16<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: that is the worst kind of pathfinding you can do
14:16<Eddi|zuHause3>lower delta means less accuracy and for large detours you do not find existing routes anymore
14:18<Eddi|zuHause3>yes, i said it is not really optimal
14:18<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: the strength of pathfinding is that is finds non-trivial paths that are cheapests and setting some waypoint in exactly the middle between two places can make it the worst possible route
14:18<Eddi|zuHause3>but you can reduce load that way
14:23<Eddi|zuHause3>you can also try it differently, calculate a cost for each spot in [x0-delta,x0+delta]x[y0-delta,y0+delta] depending on the basic cost and the distance to travel, then choose the best spot out of those
14:23<Phazorx>hmm... is it normal that profiling too like 3 sek ?
14:23<Eddi|zuHause3>works best if you do that from both ends
14:23<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause3: just use A*
14:24<@TrueBrain>basicly comes down to the same, only a bit more clever and less CPU-intensive
14:24<Eddi|zuHause3>TrueBrain: but we already use A*, it is too intensive
14:24<@TrueBrain>is it really? :)
14:24<@TrueBrain>depends on the job
14:24<Eddi|zuHause3>it is fine for rail networks
14:25<Eddi|zuHause3>but not for lakes, or trackbuilding, where you have too many options
14:25<@TrueBrain>it for example works best for AI pathfinding
14:25<@TrueBrain>but what you describe is very close to A*, just A* takes less CPU then you method :)
14:25<Phazorx>weird... it take 50% CPU if running but profiling is extrimly quick
14:26<Rubidium>TrueBrain: YAPF is A* on steroids
14:27<@TrueBrain>yup
14:27<@TrueBrain>most of all: segment caching
14:27<Eddi|zuHause3>one could try to build up caching information for the map
14:27<Eddi|zuHause3>the problem is, water or clear land has no segments to cache
14:28<Phazorx>profile run in 1.22 sek :/ anyway that's the one that hogs Brianetta's server now... anyone feel like taking a loook at it ?
14:28<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: 'profile run in ..'... it very much depends on how you run your profile
14:28<@TrueBrain>there is not one prototype for that, so you are a bit vague to me
14:28<Phazorx>TrueBrain: openttd -vnull -G profile.sav
14:28<Eddi|zuHause3>so to find a path from A to B on the map requires you to search almost the entire map, not just the tiles between A and B
14:28<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: run -vnull:ticks=10000
14:29<@TrueBrain>or something
14:29<Phazorx>http://paste.openttd.org/171
14:29<@TrueBrain>make sure it runs for 30+ seconds
14:29<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause3: why?
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14:30<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: as long as md5_process is in your top5, you didn't run the profiling long enough
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>TrueBrain: imagine A and B in opposite corners of the map, map almost completely water
14:30<@TrueBrain>(it is an initializiation function)
14:30<Eddi|zuHause3>just a straigt bit of land in the middle blocking the path
14:30<@TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause3: of course there are extremum, but for example A* ignores on average 98.6% of the map
14:30<Phazorx>TrueBrain: i figured there was soemthing fishy about it
14:31<@TrueBrain>(of course it happens that it scane 100% of the map, but mostly it is pretty fast ;))
14:31<Rubidium>Phazorx: -G ?
14:31<Phazorx>-g
14:31<Eddi|zuHause3>and the real problems start when there is no path
14:31<@TrueBrain>yup
14:32<@TrueBrain>but that is a problem for any pathfinder of any kind :)
14:32<@TrueBrain>for it to be 100% sure there is no path, it needs to check all tiles in some cases
14:32<@TrueBrain>no, never 100%
14:32<Eddi|zuHause3>but you could build up a cache of connected components at the beginning of the game
14:32<Eddi|zuHause3>updates of that cache should usually be local
14:32<@TrueBrain>at least 4 tiles aren't checked, as they block the route to the place (a corner tile blocked with what ever)
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14:34<Eddi|zuHause3>but i imagine that a check of connected components are quite common for AI, especially on island games
14:39<Eddi|zuHause3>it will get really funny if you also consider wormholes (bridges, tunnels), because the graph gets non-planar then :)
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. neighbours of a tile are not only the immediate neighbours (4 usually) but also all tiles you could build a bridge or tunnel to
14:42<Eddi|zuHause3>and an extreme dimension if you also consider terraforming
14:44<Phazorx>well.. MD5 is not moving further away than 6th spot :(
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14:45<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: which isn't top5 ;)
14:45|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
14:46<Phazorx>TrueBrain: still means sometihng is not right
14:46<Phazorx>and i can make it recognize 10000 but not 30000
14:46<Phazorx>since both take 15 sek
14:46<+glx>what is first in your profile?
14:46<Phazorx>wait a sek
14:46<Phazorx>it was 1000 only
14:46<Phazorx>-v null:ticks=30000
14:47<Phazorx>for 532 is that supposed to work ?
14:47<Phazorx> 52.48 7.72 7.72 54139 0.00 0.00 CargoList::InvalidateCache()
14:47<Phazorx>1st
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14:47<+glx>introduced in r10537
14:47<Phazorx>how can i profile more than 1000 before that ?
14:47<@TrueBrain>modify source; easier to upgrade
14:48<@TrueBrain>@calc 7.72 / 54139
14:48<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.000142595910527
14:48<Phazorx>hmm... an issue my appear differently there but i'll svn up anwyay
14:48<@TrueBrain>@calc 7.72 / 54139 * 1000
14:48<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.142595910527
14:48<@TrueBrain>14 msec per call
14:50<Phazorx>all vehicles are stopped btw
14:50<Phazorx>so report will be strange by default
14:55<SmatZ>I wish I could buy time ... for a reasonable price :)
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10554 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Codechange: allow classes with virtual functions to still export their enums.
14:55<Rubidium>SmatZ: go to the US and shoot a cop, then you'll get "time" for free
14:55<@TrueBrain>"free"? :)
14:56<@TrueBrain>that also depends on your point of view of course
14:56<@TrueBrain>a weapon, bullet, flight...
14:56<Phazorx>http://paste.openttd.org/172
14:56<Phazorx>i recon it is 4 million pax waiting
14:57<@TrueBrain>@calc 50.26 / 172878
14:57<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.000290725251333
14:57<@TrueBrain>@calc 50.26 / 172878 * 1000
14:57<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.290725251333
14:57<@TrueBrain>29msec... it is getting more the longer you run? :p
14:57<Phazorx>"it" ?
14:57<@TrueBrain>InvalidateCache
14:57<@TrueBrain>but I guess that is for Rubidium :p
14:58<Phazorx>hmm... what is it caching ?
14:58<SmatZ>Rubidium: not exactly what I want :(
14:58<Rubidium>for example the return value of CargoList::Count() const
14:59<@Belugas>[15:57] <Rubidium> SmatZ: go to the US and shoot a cop, then you'll get "time" for free <--- pay attention on which state you'll do that. You may find eternity instead of some free time;)
14:59<Rubidium>Phazorx: and you've got a gazillion of cargo packets and it's increasing fast
14:59<Phazorx>Rubidium: so i read it as "more cargo waiting" slower it runs ?
14:59<Rubidium>the "only" solution is capping the amount of cargo packets per list
14:59<Rubidium>Phazorx: yes
14:59<Rubidium>so it must be capped somewhere
15:00<Phazorx>capped?
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>limited
15:00<Rubidium>like max waiting cargo = 25000 pieces or so
15:00<Phazorx>well i tihnk it would be better if soemone would care about exporting these goods rather than accumulatiing
15:00<Phazorx>kidna the game point there
15:01<Rubidium>then start doing so, otherwise the game will become even more slow
15:01<@TrueBrain>lol
15:01<@TrueBrain>that is the penality to pay
15:01<@TrueBrain>get the cargo out of there, or the game becomes REALLY slow :p
15:01<Eddi|zuHause3>haha :p
15:02<@TrueBrain>(giving you more time to get the cargo out of there? :p)
15:02<@TrueBrain>we should make a button: trash cargo
15:02<@TrueBrain>where you can trash cargo of a station
15:02<Rubidium>*but* this means that someone can trash a server by building a station that only accumulates cargo
15:02<@TrueBrain>capping sounds like a good idea :)
15:03<SmatZ>Rubidium: not exactly what I want :(
15:03<SmatZ>errr sorry
15:03<SmatZ>bad window
15:03<Eddi|zuHause3>no, freight stations need warehouses for waiting cargo
15:03<@TrueBrain>make the cap-amount a patch option :)
15:03<Phazorx>Rubidium: i tihnk this will be rectiofied in a different manner with new industries
15:03<Phazorx>where you have stockpile caps ?
15:03<Eddi|zuHause3>you can have small/medium/big warehouses for 1000/5000/20000 cargo
15:04<Rubidium>a big warehouse of passengers
15:04<Rubidium>hahaha ;)
15:04<@TrueBrain>:) Lol!
15:04<@TrueBrain>stocked :)
15:04<Rubidium>'cause Phazorx' game is almost completely passenger based
15:04<Eddi|zuHause3>those are called "waiting halls" :p
15:04<@TrueBrain>let them die when they wait too long
15:04<SmatZ>:-D
15:04<Phazorx>it;s not almost
15:04<Phazorx>it is completely
15:04<Phazorx>there are 4 industries on the map
15:05<Phazorx>and that are untouched
15:05<Rubidium>hmm
15:05<Phazorx>it looks nice tho
15:05<Eddi|zuHause3>i always suggested additional non-track station buildings
15:05<Phazorx>5 towns, totla pop 1.5M :)
15:06<Rubidium>I think we should make the "cargo dissappear from stations" function in such a manner that after a certain amount of cargo the amount that disappears increases exponentially or so
15:06<Phazorx>Rubidium: with seevere rating and authorities penalty
15:06<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: do cargo packets keep track how long cargo is waiting?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause3>like water refill sections for steam engines (can only travel limited amount of tiles without reaching a refill station)
15:06<Rubidium>not on stations
15:06<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: maybe we should, and kill cargo that stays too long (with a chance of course)
15:06<Eddi|zuHause3>or transformator stations, which can support x electric engines in the region
15:07<SmatZ>cargo packets are being merged to reduce their number (afaik)
15:07<Rubidium>SmatZ: yes, but till a max size of 65535 "items" per packet
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>SmatZ: each cargo packet can only hold 32k cargo
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>if he has 1M waiting that will not help
15:08<SmatZ>yes, that's true - but it is the reason why cargo won't age ... only groups of 32/64k of cargo
15:08<SmatZ>then, let die all of 32/64k passangers at once... :-x
15:08<@TrueBrain>changing that is very simple of course
15:09<SmatZ>TrueBrain: won't it lead in hundreds of thousands cargo packets, each with 1-5 passangers?
15:09<@TrueBrain>possible, yes
15:09<@TrueBrain>but most likely it won't
15:10<SmatZ>well, they can die slowly... like the radioactive things do
15:10<@TrueBrain>you can for example merge packets in groups of 5 days
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15:10<Rubidium>TrueBrain: would mean adding another variable to the packets
15:10<@TrueBrain>true
15:11<Rubidium>I'd say to just trash exponentially more cargo *after* a certain threshold
15:11<SmatZ>yes
15:11<@TrueBrain>fine by me :p
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15:12<Rubidium>though I don't have an idea for that threshold and the rate; could also be linear I guess
15:13<Rubidium>25 000 and then trash 1 for every two "entities" above that and cap it at 100 000?
15:13<SmatZ>maybe for every 10000 of the same cargo divide any further incoming cargo by 2 ?
15:13<SmatZ>eg. incoming_cargo >>= (waiting_cargo >> 13)
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15:14<Rubidium>seems fairly efficient to me
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15:16<Rubidium>hmm, that method kinda sucks though
15:16<Rubidium>doing that on unloading/transfers makes that code more complex and places the code in two places
15:18<Rubidium>unless
15:18<SmatZ>well it could be if (incoming->from == here) incoming >>= ...
15:19<Rubidium>yes, but then you still get the same problem
15:19<Rubidium>with unloading vehicles you can still flood the station and slow down the game considerably
15:20<SmatZ>on one hand you do not want to remove stuff while it is on loading/unloading station, on the other you know it may be used to slow down the game when done intentionally
15:21<SmatZ>it is hard to decide :(
15:22<SmatZ>including aging for cargo packets would mean calling some procedure for all the cargo packets every tick/day ...
15:23<SmatZ>I don't know anything about it, so I won't speak about it :) sorry
15:24<Rubidium>yes, but the current "age" of packets doesn't tell anything about the time at the station
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15:37<Rubidium>http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/truncate_cargo.diff <- something like this should suffice I guess
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15:40<SmatZ>Rubidium: the << and / operator priority may surprise you :)
15:40<@TrueBrain>it is a const, not a define
15:40[~]SmatZ says sorry
15:40<@TrueBrain>:)
15:40<Rubidium>SmatZ: *if* it does then there is something horribly wrong with C++
15:41<SmatZ>sorry I am really used to name only #define in uppercase :)
15:41<@TrueBrain>it is a bit confusing yes
15:41<@TrueBrain>enums would be more in place for uppercase :)
15:47<Rubidium>Phazorx: your game should run much better with r10555 ;)
15:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10555 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange/Fix: add a soft limit of 4096 "entities" in a station's waiting queue and a hard limit of 32768 so (malicious) people cannot cause a "denial of service" attack by filling cargo lists.
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15:48<SmatZ>well I would reather see that 'difference >>= difference >> 13' as it is progressive
15:48<Rubidium>SmatZ: so is this
15:48<SmatZ>I just had some though and won't let it go :D
15:49<Mizipzor>omg... there are apparently people who refuse to use msn and still only uses icq... :S didnt see that one coming
15:50<SmatZ>is it? it just removes 1/64 of everything over 4096, doesn't it?
15:50<Rubidium>difference / 64
15:51<SmatZ>yes yes :)
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15:54<Rubidium>difference >>= difference >> 13 gives 8191 -> 8191, 8192 -> 4096 (or am I missing something?)
15:55<Rubidium>and 16383 -> 8191, 16384 -> 4096
16:01<SmatZ>no you are absolutelly right
16:02<SmatZ>today it is not my day at all
16:04<@Belugas>Today is not my day anymore
16:04<@Belugas>it is the weekend
16:04<@Belugas>bye guys
16:04<SmatZ>bye
16:04<Eddi|zuHause3>Mizipzor: you might find that having "microsoft" in the name often drives people away from that product, especially people with an IT background
16:06<Mizipzor>Eddi|zuHause3, hmm... maybe... hehe
16:07<Rubidium>Mizipzor: I refuse to use both msn and icq ;)
16:08<Mizipzor>Rubidium, what do you use for im purposes then? only irc?
16:09<Rubidium>that or face-to-face (i.e. IRL)
16:09<Rubidium>not really im though
16:09<Rubidium>anyway, the problem with especially msn is that it doesn't have a proper cli-client
16:10<+glx>it's not made for cli
16:10<Rubidium>and I don't know people who use icq
16:13<Rubidium>(or don't know they are using it)
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16:14<Maarten>ah here is the openttd channel :)
16:14<DaleStan>Rubidium: Does Finch not do what you want? I know it can talk to MSN.
16:14<Eddi|zuHause3>trouble using your client?
16:15<Rubidium>DaleStan: never heard of it
16:16<DaleStan>My understanding is that it's the text-mode version of Pidgin (which used to be called Gaim)
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16:43<@TrueBrain>Wolf01|AWAY: how is lego going?
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16:51<Wolf01>i'm thinking about the roads
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>you should not have bumps on the road
17:16<Eddi|zuHause3>only next to the road
17:17<Eddi|zuHause3>and you should align trees to the bumps :)
17:18<Wolf01>i'll make the roads like these: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=98473
17:20<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i remember that lego roads were grey
17:20<Eddi|zuHause3>not black
17:20<Ailure>heh
17:20<Wolf01>these are built by little pieces
17:20<Ailure>I found something funny
17:20<Ailure>if you use newGRF's on your titlescreen
17:21<Ailure>and change newGRF settings
17:21<Ailure>everything defaults to orginal graphics
17:21<Ailure>which means that some trains get stuck as their engine is replaced by a wagon
17:21<Eddi|zuHause3>what do you mean by changing newgrfs of the title?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause3>you mean that newgrf changes from the menu affect the title screen game?
17:22<Digitalfox_Desktop>TT Forums are down.. maintenance :(
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17:24<Rubidium>maybe it becomes faster ;)
17:26<Digitalfox_Desktop>Lets hope so :) But actually i don't notice a lot of slow down in TT Forums.. Actually are one of the fastest forums i go to.. :)
17:26<@TrueBrain>might be the hardware pumping behind it :p
17:27<+glx>Ailure: yes it's because action F grfs
17:27<Thomas[NL]>it gets migrated to PHPBB3
17:28<+glx>they need to be always initialised so all other grfs are initialised too (but not fully loaded) and that removes all grfs that could be in title screen
17:30<DaleStan>Indeed. Well, pbpBB 3 rc3, AIUI.
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17:33<Ailure>ah
17:33<Ailure>well it's only a minor annoyance
17:33<Ailure>it only happens when I mess with the newGRF settings, and that's rarely. :)
17:34|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
17:35<Digitalfox_Desktop>phpbb v3 has a lot of new features and changes, so would i love to see it in forums that use v2 :)
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17:39<Digitalfox_Desktop>If anyone wants to see what's new and changed in v3 http://area51.phpbb.com/docs/features.html
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17:47<Wolf01>'night
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18:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10556 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
18:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIAirport, which can build an airport
18:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added FindBestAircraft in AIVehicle
18:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: finished all AIVehicle commands for non-RVs
18:19<@TrueBrain>tada! Now people can make profitable airlines in their AI!
18:19<@TrueBrain>joy joy!
18:21<SmatZ>good work :) I am really looking forward for some playable AI competitors ;)
18:22<@TrueBrain>create one ;)
18:23<SmatZ>there are already some projects ... or at least were, so I hope they are still in development :)
18:24<Ailure>ok
18:24<Ailure>this is odd
18:24<@TrueBrain>SmatZ: so do I :)
18:24<Ailure>I have a rather long bridge
18:25<Ailure>sometimes thye signals ignore the train on the bridge
18:25<SmatZ>:-) developing AI seems very hard...
18:25<Ailure>resulted just into a crash now
18:25<@TrueBrain>it aint easy, that's for sure
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18:25<@TrueBrain>Ailure: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1030
18:25<SmatZ>Ailure: it is a known bug sorry :( http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1030
18:25<Ailure>ok
18:26<SmatZ>the patch might solve the problem, but peter is probably doing some revision of the code
18:26<Eddi|zuHause2>wasn't there some "vehicles could not crash on bridges" commit recently?
18:26<@TrueBrain>night all
18:26<Ailure>hmm
18:27<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: it is a different problem
18:27<SmatZ>TrueBrain: night
18:27<Ailure>heh
18:27<Ailure>now it happened again
18:27<Ailure>oh well
18:27<Ailure>at least I work around the problem
18:27<SmatZ>even with the patch?
18:27<Ailure>by making that bridge one way
18:27<Ailure>risky, but eh
18:27<Ailure>the trains runs on the same speed
18:27<Ailure>it shouldn't cause a crash
18:27<Ailure>and breakdowns are off
18:27<SmatZ>:-)
18:28<@Belugas>ho... DaleStan is back ! Welcome back among us Dalestan :)
18:28<SmatZ>ho ho ho! :)
18:29<DaleStan>Thanks.
18:34<Ailure>I love when that happens
18:34<Ailure>now the bug is purely beneficial :)
18:34<Ailure>(it's a long bridge)
18:36<Eddi|zuHause2>lmao :p
18:37<Sacro|Laptop>minilzo.c:575: error: static declaration of ‘__lzo_copyright’ follows non-static declaration
18:37<Sacro|Laptop>minilzo.c:270: error: previous
18:38<Rubidium>Sacro|Laptop: you broke it
18:39<Sacro|Laptop>Rubidium: i touched nothing
18:39<Rubidium>no... and then it becomes magically static
18:39<Rubidium>and the line numbers are off-by-a-lot
18:40<Sacro|Laptop>i simply checked out r1 and typed make
18:42[~]Sacro|Laptop posts a bug report
18:46<SmatZ>Sacro|Laptop: are you posting a bug report for r1 ? :D
18:47<Sacro|Laptop>SmatZ: i think i should
18:48<SmatZ>it will be closed immediatelly - already fixed or invalid...
18:48<Sacro|Laptop>D: no fun
18:48<SmatZ>:)
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19:11<ThePizzaKing>:o forums going to phpbb3
19:11<ThePizzaKing>nice
19:12<Sacro|Mobile>yup
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19:34[~]Maarten slaps orudge. Work faster. ;)
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19:35[~]glx slaps Maarten. He does it as fast as he can. ;)
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19:35<Maarten>I know :P
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19:38<@orudge>Maarten: it's all ready
19:38<@orudge>except for the search index
19:38<@orudge>just have to wait for that...
19:38<Maarten>cool :)
19:38<@orudge>or, hm
19:39<@orudge>well
19:39<@orudge>no, I'd best wait for it to finish
19:39<Maarten>ur UK time right?
19:41<Digitalfox_Desktop>orudge, was the update a easy one, didn't happen any problems?? TT forums has a big data-base, so i thought it would take a while more to sort all problems that could happen...
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19:43<Digitalfox_Desktop>I never managed an phpbb data-base, but constantly hear a lot of people saying updating it is always a stressing thing, all things can go wrong...
19:43<@orudge>Digitalfox_Desktop: it was pretty simple, really
19:43<@orudge>however
19:43<@orudge>I have done trial installs a few times
19:43<@orudge>took me a while to upgrade the theme
19:43<@orudge>but the actual conversion has gone fine
19:44<Digitalfox_Desktop>great :)
19:44<Digitalfox_Desktop>You are using RC3 right?
19:44<@orudge>Yes
19:45<Digitalfox_Desktop>Nice.
19:45<Digitalfox_Desktop>Was there a reason for not waiting for final, like wanting to see if had problems with tt forums to report before final??
19:46<@orudge>Well
19:46<@orudge>I'd performed updates with beta 4 or 5 (whichever one introduced the phpBB 2 converter), as well as with RC1, RC2 and RC3
19:47<Digitalfox_Desktop>I'm not saying RC3 isn't stable, but people always fear messing with data-bases until final versions ;)
19:47<@orudge>so I've been doing this for several months
19:47<@orudge>I did find a few bugs in earlier versions
19:47<@orudge>which were reported and fixed
19:47<@orudge>RC3 appears to be stable enough for my own use
19:47<Digitalfox_Desktop>Great, and now we can see what improvents it makes for TT forums :)
19:47<@orudge>heh, yep
19:47<@orudge>it may take a while though
19:47<@orudge>indexing posts at 67 posts per second
19:48<@orudge>it's done up to 182,000
19:48<@orudge>only 418,000 more to go...
19:48<Digitalfox_Desktop>:\
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>that's gonna take a while :)
19:49<@orudge>it's either that or an incomplete search index ;)
19:49<@orudge>this is actually going to be the only complete search index the forums have ever had
19:49<@orudge>as the original imported posts were never indexed fully, back in 2002
19:49<@orudge>nor were the AGMTT posts
19:49<@orudge>and a few others along the time
19:49<@orudge>so in a way, it'll give the database a nice refresher
19:50<Digitalfox_Desktop>So that means an improvement over search performance?
19:50<@orudge>Oh yes, there should be an improvement
19:50<@orudge>the search feature is also a lot better
19:50<@orudge>should be easier to find what you want ;)
19:50<Eddi|zuHause2>no, it means you can actually reach those posts with the search function at all
19:50<Digitalfox_Desktop>thata was what i was going to ask
19:51<Digitalfox_Desktop>what improvements does the search search feature have? More commands or it's more reliable?
19:52<Digitalfox_Desktop>I always thought in v2 the search function was a little unreliable.. I mean you get the word is type, but most of the times it isn't what i was looking..
19:52<@Belugas>it will be more "realistic"
19:53<@Belugas>Muwhahahah!
19:53<Digitalfox_Desktop>lol
19:54<Digitalfox_Desktop>Belugas what are you doing here get back to work @ openttd ;)
19:55<@orudge>Digitalfox_Desktop: there are more options, but it should also be a bit more obvious how to tweak searches to get the best results
19:55<Digitalfox_Desktop>cool
19:55<@orudge>phpBB3 is also friendlier to search engines
19:55<@orudge>so if all else fails, you can just use Google ;)
19:55<Digitalfox_Desktop>:)
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19:59<@Belugas>Digitalfox_Desktop, i was only taking a little time off :P
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20:01<Digitalfox_Desktop>Ok, i'll forgive this time... But don't forget the check i will send after THE work, so get to work ;)
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20:01<Digitalfox_Desktop>Belugas scuba this weekend?
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20:04<@orudge>OK
20:04<@orudge>I've opened up the forums
20:04<@orudge>despite the search engine not being completely done
20:04<Ailure>woah
20:04<Ailure>the layout feels a bit difrent
20:05<+glx>yes the "new message" icon drag&drop works :)
20:07<@orudge>Read the message in the News forum if you all would ;)
20:09<@Belugas>no scuba, Digitalfox_Desktop. I had more then enough last weekend :)
20:09<@Belugas>will be time for home improvement
20:10<Digitalfox_Desktop>Looks great orudge :)
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20:11<@orudge>Cheers
20:11<Digitalfox_Desktop>Hum... Moderators name is in Blue and with green isn't easy to understand
20:12<Digitalfox_Desktop>Like when you enter a section of openttd and it says whos the moderators, it's hard to read..
20:17<NukeBuster>Does the black dot on topic icon mean I posted there?
20:24<+glx>looks like that
20:33<@Belugas>it really feels faster, orudge :)
20:33<@Belugas>a bit different, but hey... can't stop progress :)
20:33<@orudge>Heh
20:33<@orudge>well, it should be faster
20:33<@orudge>although, right now, the server is bogged down with crawling posts
20:33<@orudge>should be even faster when that's done ;)
20:34<@orudge>Digitalfox_Desktop: well, blue = local moderators, green = global moderators
20:34<@orudge>it may be changed yet
20:34<@orudge>and yes, NukeBuster, that's what it means
20:37<Digitalfox_Desktop>orudge: i'm talking about this http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Digitalfox/?action=view¤t=problem_TT.png
20:38<@orudge>Digitalfox_Desktop: ah, yes
20:38<@orudge>that's true
20:38<@orudge>there was always a problem with green on the old forum, too
20:38<Digitalfox_Desktop>:)
20:38<@orudge>in that one couldn't read the green on the green
20:38<SmatZ>good night all
20:38<@orudge>not sure if there's much I can do
20:38<@orudge>but I'll see
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20:38<Digitalfox_Desktop>ok
20:39<Digitalfox_Desktop>Maybe white?
20:39<@orudge>well, no, I don't mean altering the user group
20:40<@orudge>but perhaps putting a background there or something
20:40<@orudge>I'll see
20:43<Digitalfox_Desktop>ok
20:44<Digitalfox_Desktop>good night everybody :)
20:44<@orudge>Night
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 14 00:00:13 2007