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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-16

---Logopened Mon Jul 16 00:00:09 2007
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04:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10587 /trunk/src/ (39 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move the string/dparam related stuff from variables.h to strings.h
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05:07<Smoky555>hi all ! i download and compile last SVN, but when i run it, i can't see loading indicator, but in "Configure patches" "use loading indicator" is ON. It is a bug or ... ?
05:09<Rubidium>are you zoomed out?
05:10<@peter1138>or transparent
05:11<Eddi|zuHause2>i miss the Ctrl+D mode :(
05:11<Smoky555>grrr... now i see it, but i only restart a game and load last save, don't change anything in config ...
05:13<Smoky555>peter1138 : if i choose "hide buildings", the loading indicator became transparent too, it is not visible.
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05:16<Smoky555>i thinks - this is a bug, because if i enabled "Show loading indicator" in "Configure patches" - it must be showed in different mode (transparent trees, buildings, something else ...). Or i did't understand something?
05:17<Eddi|zuHause2>i think wolf01 had a patch to separate them
05:17<Smoky555>where?
05:17<Eddi|zuHause2>no idea
05:17<Smoky555>:)
05:17<Eddi|zuHause2>you might start in the forum thread
05:18<Smoovious>Smoky555... use the transparency options
05:18<@peter1138>it is separate
05:18<@peter1138>but 'hide buildings' hides everything
05:18<Smoovious>the train icon
05:19<Smoovious>maybe a forklift there would be better... .. .
05:20<Eddi|zuHause2>a what?
05:22<Smoovious>a forklift... you know... a work vehicle used for loading and unloading skids off of trucks and boxcars
05:22<Eddi|zuHause2>and what does that have to do with trains?
05:23<Smoovious>it doesn't... it ha s to do with loading
05:23<Smoovious>for the loading indicator?
05:24<Eddi|zuHause2>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avNa1qTsR1s
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05:27<Smoovious>yeah, one of t hose
05:27<Eddi|zuHause2>watch it :p
05:27<Smoovious>I am
05:27<Smoovious>I don't understand a word, b ut I'm watching i t
05:28<Eddi|zuHause2>understanding is not essential ;)
05:28<Smoovious>hmm...
05:28<Smoovious>I do believe I understand you a lot better now
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05:29<Smoovious>(btw, that first one i s why you always go back-end first through doorways)
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05:29<Smoovious><-- ex forklift operator
05:30<Eddi|zuHause2>btw. that is supposed to be an official training video for new drivers
05:30<Smoovious>yeah, I can tell
05:30<Smoovious>certainly better than the o nes I've seen... no sense o f humor at all
05:33<Tlustoch>If I will drive directly from upper corner to down, it's same length as from upper corner to the left and then down??
05:34<Eddi|zuHause2>for station distance calculation, yes, for train travel time, no
05:35<Smoovious>distance is straight-line between stations...
05:39<Smoovious>nice... (video)
05:42<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a real classic :)
05:47<Smoovious>might even forward it to my old boss...
05:47<Smoovious>af 20-min or so
05:48<Eddi|zuHause2>with the popularity of the video, there should probably be english subtitles around also
05:49<Smoovious>nvm... not leaving yet
05:49<Smoovious>probably better withhout em
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06:05<ln->http://www.epl.ee/majandus/393136
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06:07<@peter1138>it's all in stupid-language
06:08<Noldo>it's the .ee language
06:09<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never seen a non-stupid person speaking that language
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06:33<alex__>estonia?
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07:22<Rippsy>well that was a quick lesson learnt when making sugguestions - never include the word 'secure' *pushes the post back on topic*
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07:29<Noldo>what?
07:34<TheJosh>hello everyone
07:35<Rubidium>Rippsy: the whole problem is that everyone wants to put the passwords in the savegame, when just an external text file would suffice: <name of save>.pwd containing the md5s for all companies. This way you can still easily distribute the savegames and you do not expose the (fairly) weak md5s to the "bad" outside world
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07:35<Timwi>Hello
07:35<Rippsy>That'd work, i'd not object to that, but how do you tell the game to load the txt file with the save game?
07:36<Timwi>I was just wondering if someone could help me with a problem? All my trains refuse to use bridges (they just turn around and go back). What am I doing wrong?
07:36<Rippsy>check if savename.pws exists?
07:36<Rippsy>Timwi is it the correct track type?
07:36<Timwi>How do you mean?
07:36<Timwi>Of course it's a rail bridge, not a street bridge :-p
07:36<Timwi>I've played the original Transport Tycoon 12 years ago and it worked then :-p
07:36<Rubidium>running electric trains on a non-electrified bridge is what Rippsy means
07:36<Rippsy>no Timwi is it an electric railbridge?
07:37<Rippsy>idd
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07:37<Rippsy>Rubidium is that a plausable solution Rubidium?
07:37<Rubidium>Rippsy: yes
07:37<Timwi>How do I tell if the train is "electric" and whether the bridge is "electrified"?
07:37<Rippsy>hm
07:38<Rippsy>it has electric thingies on it .. can't remember what they are called
07:38<Timwi>(and why did I never have to worry about that back in the olden days :-) )
07:38<Rippsy>:P
07:38<Rippsy>its a new intermidiate tracktype
07:38<Rippsy>well 'new'
07:38<Rubidium>Timwi: because it's a "feature"
07:38<Rubidium>but you can turn it off
07:38<TheJosh>why though? just dont use 'em
07:38<Timwi>I don't mind using them, but I'd need to learn how to use them properly so that my trains don't turn around :-p
07:38<Rubidium>TheJosh: because then you can't use electrified engines
07:39<Rippsy>Timwi, was that the solution or is it something else?
07:39<Rubidium>but when you turn electrified tracks off, the electrified engines run on normal rail as they did in "the old" days
07:39<TheJosh>elecrrified is cool anyway, you get faster trains
07:39<TheJosh>ah i understand now
07:41<Timwi>So does a "Floss '47' (Diesel)" count as electric?
07:41<Rubidium>no
07:41<Timwi>OK, so you're saying it should be able to use *any* bridge?
07:41<TheJosh>nope, deisel
07:41<Rubidium>Timwi: when you own the bridge
07:41<Timwi>So if I build a bridge now and it doesn't use it then I've found a bug? :)
07:41<TheJosh>Floss is the second-best deisel, short of the sh-125
07:42<guru3>Viva Floss.
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07:42<Eddi|zuHause2>Timwi: "Steam" and "Diesel" are non-electric, "Electric" is electric
07:42<guru3>I never much liked the SH125 though.
07:42<guru3>Those damn 8 bags of mail.
07:42<TheJosh>i dont either, double headed
07:42<guru3>I did have some fun with the double headed 74 and 80 passanger diesels though.
07:42<TheJosh>i prefer to wait for the T.I.M. before I loose 1 carrige off all my trains
07:43<guru3>It's fun making a mini network with them.
07:43<Rippsy>guru3 can't you refit it?
07:43<guru3>And it's hard as hell to make it profitable.
07:43<guru3>Rippsy: not when I started playing and building up my engine prejudices.
07:43<Rippsy>:D
07:43<Rippsy>ahhaha
07:43<TheJosh>i have a network thats loaded with 3 carrige passenger trains
07:43<Eddi|zuHause2>i never really liked the default trainset
07:43<Eddi|zuHause2>the electrics come way too late
07:43<Timwi>OK, I've built the bridge, but the train is still turning around
07:43<guru3>I'm just so used to it now.
07:43<TheJosh>they were 125s but i recently took them to TIMs, they are no so zippy
07:43<Timwi>Does that mean I've found a bug? :-p
07:43<Rippsy>Timwi, have you checked all signals, track is connected and a route is found to destination, and its not using a 90deg turn onto the bridge where 90deg turns might be disabled?
07:44<guru3>I'd be very confused if I tried to play with another train set.
07:44<TheJosh>even a signal far off can annoy YAPF
07:44<Rippsy>idd
07:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Timwi: do you have a picture?
07:44<Timwi>Rippsy: I've built several bridges and I seem to have this problem with *any* train and *any* bridge.
07:44<Timwi>OK, I'll make a screenshot, hang on
07:44<Rippsy>pictures or save game please
07:44<Eddi|zuHause2>or a savegame?
07:44<Rubidium>Timwi: what version?
07:44<Timwi>Hm, how do I do that through VNC? :>
07:44<Rippsy>save game would be nice
07:44<Rubidium>of OTTD
07:44<Rippsy>i can host it and we can all check it out :)
07:44|-|Ben_1 changed nick to _Ben_
07:44<Rippsy>lol your remoting onto your TTD game
07:44<Timwi>0.5.3-RC1
07:44<Rippsy>.. nice work!
07:45<Eddi|zuHause2>Timwi: update to RC2 first
07:45<Eddi|zuHause2>RC1 is broken
07:45<Timwi>Eddi|zuHause2: Are you suggesting that you *know* that this is a *known* problem in RC1?
07:45<Timwi>Because if not, then RC2 will likely have it as well
07:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i know that RC1 has known problems, i don't know which they are
07:46<Rubidium>Timwi: RC1 had problems with bridges
07:47<TheJosh>real quick question. how come, if i set in difficulty, compeditor start tiem to immediate, im still the only one playing?
07:47<alex__>ai not enabled in multiplayer games
07:48<guru3>AI, to the best of my knowledge in OpenTTD is a bit... dodgy.
07:48<TheJosh>single player
07:48<TheJosh>meh there there now
07:48<Eddi|zuHause2>AI is bad... don't use... and they need some time to show up, even on "immediate" setting
07:48<Rubidium>TheJosh: it starts randomly, but not the first X months (X = 0 in this case)
07:48<TheJosh>Rubidium: thanks
07:49<TheJosh>dumb question from a patcher i know, but meh
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07:49<guru3>The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
07:49<Rippsy>Your only allowed one dumb question a week ;)
07:49<guru3>After that it's the question you didn't Google first.
07:50<guru3>Rippsy, do they roll over like my wireless plan minutes?
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07:50<Rippsy>someones been reading the how to ask SMRT questions guide
07:50<Rippsy>lol guru3 I wish :D
07:50<guru3>Aww. Too bad. If they did, I'd have a few dozen that I could ask in one go.
07:50<guru3>Sort of a stupidity spree, if you will.
07:51<Rippsy>oh man that REALLY REALLY confuses me on the forums
07:51<Rippsy>how the posts are all kept in local time of the posters location
07:51<Rippsy>not servers time zone
07:51<Rippsy>someone just replied to my post at 9pm.. *brain weeps*
07:51<guru3>I wouldn't know as I don't really participate on the forums.
07:51<guru3>It's hard enough for me to get around to participating on IRC here.
07:51<Rippsy>or not
07:52<Rippsy>since I just posted at 5pm.. wtf
07:52<Rippsy>wow im speical today
07:52<Rippsy>i was reading the join times
07:52<guru3>Back in the day, I used to be a lot better at participating on forums.
07:52<Rippsy>im going back to bed
08:02<TheJosh>can someone please explain to me how to add data to an array in a class (the player class) without killing savegames?
08:02<TheJosh>I want to up SLE_ARR(Player, share_owners, SLE_UINT8, 4), to an array of 10
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08:04<TheJosh>do i canhge it to a condvar and grab some bytes from the SLE_CONDNULL at the end, and add another SLE_CONDNULL for whats left?
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08:10<@peter1138>TheJosh: ignore condnull
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08:14<TheJosh>i dont need to change the number of bytes on it?
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08:18<TheJosh>so what is a CONDNULL anyway?
08:19<@peter1138>a bad idea :p
08:20<+glx>COND means not used for all savegame versions
08:20<TheJosh>ok this doesnt make sence though. If I expand an array but 6 bytes, how come games still save and load?
08:21<+glx>because you tell it what to do
08:22<+glx>(increase savegame version and use COND* in saveload arrays)
08:22<TheJosh>and it works out the null space automatically?
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08:25<TheJosh>cool
08:26<@peter1138>no, the null space is legacy stuff
08:27<+glx>usually we replace now unsaved variables by null to not increase savegame version
08:29<Rubidium>glx: we have to replace them by NULL as there is no variable to map them to anymore
08:30<+glx>and a savegame bump is not needed in this case
08:34<TheJosh>hey Im doing some worj with shares (10% instead of 25%) and what do people think of there being a small brokerage fee on each purchace/sale? something small like $30 (at the start of the game)
08:35<Rubidium>thought about savegame compatability?
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08:35<Rubidium>'cause a 25% shares can't be split into 2.5 shares
08:37<TheJosh>hmm, didnt think of that
08:38<TheJosh>i could just take it to 30% but thats a tad dodgy...
08:38<TheJosh>and 4 people with 25% each would get interesting
08:39<TheJosh>i could make it 20 increments of 5% instead of 10 of 10%
08:41<TheJosh>what do you think of the brokerage fee idea?
08:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10588 /branches/NewGRF_ports/projects/ (openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): [NewGRF_ports] -Update: project files
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08:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10589 /trunk/os/debian/rules: -Fix (Debian): --enable-install is not needed anymore.
08:50<blathijs>Rubidium: That's trunk only, not 0.5 right?
08:51<Rubidium>yes that's trunk
08:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10590 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: cargo_packet.* were not sorted correctly in project files
08:51<blathijs>hmm? We have cargo packets already? Thought that never got finished :-)
08:52<Rubidium>they are very lightweight
08:52<Rubidium>they only contain origin + time in transit
08:53<Rubidium>only done so transfers would work correctly without all kinds of hacks
08:54|-|anculz [sponsz@mic92-6-82-227-94-181.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
08:54<anculz>http://vaniketamer.miniville.fr/
08:54<anculz>http://vaniketamer.miniville.fr/
08:54<Rubidium>@kick anculz stupid bot
08:54|-|anculz kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [stupid bot]
08:54|-|anculz [sponsz@mic92-6-82-227-94-181.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
08:55<Rubidium>really stupid bot
08:55<Rubidium>@op Rubidium
08:55|-|mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by DorpsGek
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08:55|-|mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by Rubidium
08:56<blathijs>uh? Bot that is susceptible to threats? :-)
08:56<+glx>he's french :)
08:56<+glx>same provider as me
08:56<Rubidium>and I was about to ban everything from *.net ;)
08:57<+glx>he has a static IP
08:57<+glx>so you can ban him if you want
08:58<Rubidium>spam bots don't have static IPs...
08:58<+glx>.fbx.proxad.net are static IPs
08:58<TheJosh>does anyone have any opinion at all on a 'brokerage fee' on share transactions?
08:58<+glx>needed because IPphone service
08:58<mikegrb>he was akilled
08:58<Rubidium>well, physical machines the bots run on, but not the "bot" themselves
08:59<Rubidium>as the bots just hop from computer to computer (those nice infected (Windows) machines connected to the internet)
09:01<TheJosh>hey is it a problem that the game credits are only in English?
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09:15<Rippsy>There are game credits? :P
09:15<TheJosh>yes
09:16<TheJosh>is there anyway to speed up the game in multiplayer? I dont want to wait 5 years until my companies are mature enough to trade shares
09:18<Rubidium>no
09:18<@Belugas>do credits need to be translated?
09:18<Rubidium>going full-speed isn't going to work in multiplayer
09:19<TheJosh>nvm i just commented out the 'new company' code to test in MP
09:20<TheJosh>btw, i just did a patch if anyone is interested. its '5% shares' (was going to be 10%, but 5% combats conversion from the old 25% much better)
09:20<@peter1138>what does it allow?
09:21<TheJosh>what do you mean?
09:21<@peter1138>what does the change allow?
09:21<TheJosh>you buy shares in increments of 5% instead of 25% -> more control on how much you buy
09:21<Rippsy>Nice touch
09:21<Rippsy>:)
09:22<TheJosh>dont download that one though. i just found a bug
09:22<Rippsy>Still wont fix the buy-buy-sell-sell issue though but thats getting into silly economics
09:23<TheJosh>i was goign to add a 'brokerage fee' but didnt
09:23<Rippsy>but 5% incriments will mean small companies can invest in the huge ones which will be v' useful
09:23<Rippsy>hehe
09:23<TheJosh>there is a small loss you make when you do a sell, accodring to the code
09:24<TheJosh> cost = -(cost - (cost >> 7));
09:24<Rippsy>is that 7% or just '7'
09:24<Rippsy>lol
09:25<TheJosh>its bitshift by 7
09:25<Rubidium>1/128th
09:25<TheJosh>so the cost will be reduced by 1/128th of itself
09:25<TheJosh>not very much at all really.
09:25<Rubidium>to 1/1.28 %
09:26<Rippsy>When you buy into a compnay - does that company receive the cash? or does it just 'disappear'
09:26<Rubidium>disappears
09:26<Rippsy>So thats why investment is 'broke' then
09:26<Rippsy>hms
09:26<TheJosh>although wen you sell shares, money just comes from nowhere
09:26<Rippsy>yea
09:27<Rippsy>I'd noticed that and the abuse it allows in a game few days gao
09:27<Rippsy>ago*
09:27<TheJosh>So Rippsy, you going to try the patch?
09:27<Rippsy>yours?
09:27|-|Timwi [Timwi@cpc3-cmbg8-0-0-cust421.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
09:27<Timwi>Hi again.
09:27<Rippsy>the 5% thing
09:27<Timwi>Sorry about that, my computer crashed.
09:28<Rippsy>could do if its as simple as installing a nightly, i've not messed with much yet
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09:28<TheJosh>what OS are you on?
09:28<Rippsy>Win XP
09:28<TheJosh>you will probably want BuildOTTD. it downloads the src for you, and applies a patch too
09:29<Rippsy>I'll check it out
09:29<Timwi>Quick question -- if I just want to play the game normally, should I use 0.5.3-RC2 or 0.5.2?
09:29<TheJosh>use a nightly
09:29<Rippsy>Querk if shares were fixed
09:29<Rippsy>if everyone pulled out of a company at the same time
09:29<TheJosh>nightlys rule
09:30<Rippsy>you could remove 75% of there liquid assets
09:30<Rippsy>(which could be funny)
09:30<TheJosh>my friend used to buy into a company, delete there everything then sell it again.
09:30<Rippsy>lol
09:30<TheJosh>that was on MiniIN, when you could buy a company, but it would still be seperate to yours
09:30<Rippsy>well with two players
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09:30<Rippsy>you can both increase your wealth for free using it
09:30<Rippsy>due to it not effecting the invested IN company
09:31<TheJosh>people do that in the real stock market - but its illegal
09:31<Rippsy>naww that effects the invested in company
09:31<Rippsy>but in ttd it doesn't
09:31<TheJosh>if you own a large enough chunk of a stock that selling it all would crash that stocks price
09:31<@peter1138>fix it!
09:31<TheJosh>then buying it all back at the crashed price
09:31<Rippsy>ah peter1138, did you write the signals oneclick code?
09:31|-|XeryusTC2 changed nick to XeryusTC
09:32<Timwi>Since no-one replied, I'll try RC2 and complain if I find more bugs :-p
09:32<@peter1138>oneclick?
09:32<TheJosh>peter1138: you want me to make another shares patch that balances them
09:32<Rippsy>as in ctrl-click drag signals along the whole line
09:32<@peter1138>oh
09:32<@peter1138>yes
09:32<Rippsy>what do you think to the same principle for convert
09:32<TheJosh>when did they go in?
09:32<@peter1138>well i wrote trunk's version of it, based on the old patch
09:33<TheJosh>there were some very good patches in the MiniIN i still miss! (autocomplete was one of them)
09:33<Rippsy>convert-rail type that is
09:33<@peter1138>Rippsy: and yes, i already thought about that
09:33<Rippsy>:)
09:33<TheJosh>i would like to see 'convert all rail on map' or similar
09:33<@peter1138>that's just lazy
09:33<TheJosh>better than dragging from one corner to the other
09:33<Rippsy>only works if you have no trains in stations
09:33<Rippsy>or depots even
09:34<Rippsy>or maybe leave the depos
09:34<Rippsy>so you can clone the trains after the convert
09:34<@peter1138>hmm, when autocomplete-converting, where do you stop?
09:34<TheJosh>im going to bed
09:34<@peter1138>with signals it's obvious... at a junction
09:34<TheJosh>goodnight
09:34<Rippsy>peter
09:34<Rippsy>You don't
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09:35<Rippsy>you do all connected rail
09:35<@peter1138>ah, keep going
09:35<@peter1138>hmm
09:35<Rippsy>except on squares where share diagonal rails
09:35<Rippsy>with an invalid rail type
09:35<@peter1138>then i would need a stack to keep track of junctions
09:35<Rippsy>which it should leave as old or throw an error somehow
09:37<Rippsy>why would you need to keep track of junctions? surely it'll check if the current piece of track is already converted, and that would stop infinate loops?
09:37<@peter1138>well no
09:38<@peter1138>it would need to convert one direction
09:38<@peter1138>then go back and convert the other
09:38<Rippsy>Ah fair enuff
09:38<Rippsy>can't do a branch of and start running two processes for it at each junct then?
09:38<@peter1138>lol
09:38<+glx>peter1138: use recursion
09:38<Rippsy>im just playing with idea's i've not wrote code in a LONG time :P
09:39<@peter1138>glx: *nod*, built-in 'stack'
09:39<@peter1138>ideas
09:42<Timwi>RC2 seems to work with bridges
09:42<Timwi>Thanks all
09:42<Timwi>Another thing I just remembered: What is PBS?
09:42<@peter1138>something that doesn't exist
09:42|-|orudge [~orudge@91.84.56.243] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.]
09:42<@peter1138>it's all a lie
09:42<Rippsy>:D
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09:43|-|mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
09:43<Smoovious>Path Based Signalling... which, afaik, is abandoned
09:43<Timwi>I see
09:43<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a fairy tale :)
09:43|-|Desolator [Desolator@82.79.212.8] has joined #openttd
09:43<Eddi|zuHause2>it has not been abandoned, it has been discontinued, and the new approach has not been really started yet
09:44<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: it was abandoned (by the original author) before it was actually discontinued/remove from trunk
09:44<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, ok ;)
09:45<Zavior>Bring it back! :<
09:45<Sacro>http://brainbombers.com/train_game_rtr/images/granit2_3.jpg
09:45<+glx>Zavior: code it :)
09:45<Zavior>Can I use paint for that?
09:45<Zavior>:o
09:46<Sacro>http://brainbombers.com/train_game_rtr/images/bjones1.jpg also quite pretty
09:46<Rippsy>that was random :D
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09:47<Eddi|zuHause2>kinda looks a little too toy-ish
09:50<Rippsy>I like it
09:50<Rippsy>Although the curved track is making my eyes wonky a bit
09:51<Smoovious>speaking of toy-ish... anyone hear any more about the legoland developmpent?
09:52<Chicago_R_A>Have you followed the "brickland" thread in the OpenTTD graphics section?
09:52<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01 is still on it, afaik
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09:56<Nickman>hi all
09:56<Smoovious>nope... I don't follow web-forums that closely... besides not liking web-based forums in the first place, I have enough to keep up with my newsgroup and lists as it is
09:56<Nickman>The link to the forum on the OpenTTD site needs to be change to link to OpenTTD subforum again :)
09:59<Rubidium>where on the site?
10:00<@peter1138>Sacro: hmm, i recognise those buildings...
10:00<Desolator>bump
10:00<Sacro>peter1138: how strange
10:00<@peter1138>bump to you too
10:01<Desolator>hi Rippsy
10:01<Nickman>I see it has just been changed Rubidium?? :)
10:01<+glx><Nickman> The link to the forum on the OpenTTD site needs to be change to link to OpenTTD subforum again :) <- it was done saturday
10:02<Nickman>ah
10:02<Rubidium>glx: lies
10:02<Nickman>lol :p
10:02<Desolator>lol
10:02<Nickman>it wasn't fixed over here until just now?
10:02<Rubidium>glx: forum.openttd.org was redirected
10:02<+glx>it wasn't already forum.openttd.org on site?
10:02<Rubidium>and it wasn't forum.openttd.org on the website
10:03<Timwi>OK I have a question about pre-signals now (I've just read about them) ...
10:03<Timwi>I understand how this layout works: http://wiki.openttd.org/images/a/a8/SignalTutorial17.png
10:03<Timwi>I also understand how this works -- http://wiki.openttd.org/images/a/a0/SignalTutorial18.png -- but I don't understand why that is "better" than the first. What is the advantage?
10:04<Desolator>say train 1 goes to enter the station
10:04<Rippsy>Lo Desolator
10:04<Desolator>train 2 follows it but stops at the first signal and must wait for it to clear, if it breakes down, bad
10:04<Desolator>but in the 2nd, train 2 waits shorter, thus is better
10:05<Desolator>don't tell me you need proof
10:06<Timwi>I'm sorry but I don't understand why train 2 has a shorter waiting time in the 2nd layout
10:06<Timwi>As far as I can see it can start moving as soon as any of the platforms are free
10:06<Rippsy>Query: exit.sav - when is this made, as its not made when i do 'exit' on my server :D
10:08|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4855.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:08<Desolator>Timwi: put trains running and see
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10:10<Timwi>Desolator: Is it solely about trains breaking down?
10:10<Rubidium>Timwi: the next train can only continue when the train in front it has completely passed the signal. In the second one this happens earlier because the trains have a higher speed when passing the signal closest to the entry (trains slow down considerable when entering the station)
10:10<Rippsy>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/brickland_terrain3.png
10:10<Rippsy>that looks ACE
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10:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10591 /extra/website/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [Website] -Change: several small changes that accumulated over time.
10:15<Sacro>Rippsy: it'd be nice if it could intelligently merge bricks
10:15<Timwi>Rubidium: Thanks for the explanation. I guess I really do have to try it to see. I'm finding it difficult to imagine that the slowdown upon entering the station outweighs the extra track enclosed by the entry and the combos.
10:15<Sacro>also, i don't recall lego having an L brick
10:16<Rippsy>gah, technicalities ;)
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10:16<Chicago_R_A>There were "L" bricks, btw
10:16<Chicago_R_A>They may not include them anymore (as it seems that most sets now use HUGE single pieces)...
10:16<Chicago_R_A>...but many older sets had them.
10:20|-|Sionide changed nick to Sio
10:20|-|Sio changed nick to Sionide
10:24<KUDr_wrk>[14:45:31] <TheJosh> even a signal far off can annoy YAPF << wtf?
10:25<@peter1138>Chicago_R_A: huge pieces suck :(
10:25<@peter1138>although they're stronger, heh
10:25<Rubidium>can make YAPF behave unexpectedly (though correctly)
10:26<Chicago_R_A>Peter: Yea, I agree
10:26<Chicago_R_A>The old castle sets used to take hours to build with thousands of pieces
10:27<Chicago_R_A>Now there are only a few hundred pieces :(
10:28<Rippsy>autosave_on_exit = true - but my server isn't saving on exit - any ideas?
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10:30<+glx>Rippsy: you don't have autosave/exit.sav?
10:30<Rippsy>I do have one, but its not from the last time the server exited
10:30<Rippsy>its 5 hours old
10:31<Rippsy>so it has done it, but not the most recent shut down
10:31<Rippsy>which is puzzling me
10:32<+glx>it's done if you exit from gui
10:32<Rippsy>but not if i exit from cmd line?
10:32|-|Sacro__ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:32<+glx>no
10:32<Rippsy>so if im using -D it wont generate exit.sav?
10:32<Rippsy>hmmm
10:32<Rippsy>that explains why it has previously then
10:33<Rippsy>i'll just have to set autosaves to a higher freq, and be careful when exiting then
10:33<skidd13>Any osx dev here?
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10:36<Timwi>Is it at all possible to display the "orders" window and the "details" window for a train at the same time? Whenever I open one of them, the other one disappears.
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10:38<skidd13>Maybe someone other can answer my question: is the clock() function from time.h a c++ basic function?
10:39|-|marc-andre [~marc-andr@88-137-147-45.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd
10:40<marc-andre>hiho
10:40<marc-andre>does someone have access on brianettas server?
10:41<Timwi>The Wiki just crashed
10:42<Sacro>ppcis.org is up
10:42<Sacro>but the server isn't
10:42|-|Sacro__ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:44<marc-andre>Sacro: yes, that's why i ask
10:45<marc-andre>brianetta's standard server is down, can someone who has access restart the server?
10:47|-|JazzyJaffa [~ben@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
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10:49<Sacro>marc-andre: only Brianetta has access...
10:49<marc-andre>damn
10:49|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
10:50<Rippsy>Fearful timing imo
10:50<marc-andre>Brianetta: yeah, just talking about you
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10:50<marc-andre>Brianetta: is there a serious problem with the server?
10:50<Brianetta>uh huh
10:50<Brianetta>It's not running
10:51<marc-andre>yes, that's why i ask
10:51<marc-andre>XD
10:51<Brianetta>I just wanted a few hours off.
10:51<marc-andre>i see
10:51<marc-andre>are the few hours off?
10:51<blathijs>a few hours off what?
10:52<Brianetta>Being paged, etc
10:53<Rippsy>You get paged that much? -- * has 2nd thoughts about hosting several servers *
10:58<marc-andre>Brianetta: so do you start the server soon again?
10:59<Timwi>Thanks for fixing the server :)
10:59<marc-andre>i just have now some minutes...
10:59<Timwi>The Wiki appears to be back up
10:59<Brianetta>Tonight.
10:59<Brianetta>Not now, I'm at work.
11:00<marc-andre>:(
11:00<marc-andre>Brianetta: what do you use to control the server?
11:01<marc-andre>i mean the pilot, where can i learn more about?
11:01<Brianetta>autopilot
11:01|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0C90A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:01<Brianetta>In the forum
11:01<marc-andre>thx
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11:09<Chicago_R_A>Hi Rich
11:09<RichK67>hi
11:09<skidd13>Is a mod from the froum online, who is in the mood to split a thread?
11:10<skidd13>Hi RichK67
11:10<Digitalfox_Desktop>hi RichK67 :)
11:10<RichK67>hi skidd13 - nice looking graphics recently
11:11<Digitalfox_Desktop>I just tried your airport newgrf support.. It looks a great :)
11:11<Digitalfox_Desktop>* a great thing
11:11<RichK67>very very early days yet
11:11<skidd13>:)
11:11<Digitalfox_Desktop>yes, but since there wasn't any support at all, it's nice to see it coming :)
11:12<RichK67>im going to see what i need to do to let the old and new ways of adding airports co-exist... currently the old way is.. err... "disabled" ;)
11:13<Digitalfox_Desktop>A question RichK67, will this newgrf support also allow to have diffrent types of airports, i mean like the ones you have showed not yet in openttd?
11:13<RichK67>did you spot the quirk on hangars? since the hangar detection is done by the graphic you click on, it doesnt recognise the newgrf graphic as a hangar!
11:13<RichK67>yup - and totally design your own graphics for them too
11:13<Digitalfox_Desktop>cool
11:14<RichK67>more than that, this is designed for not just airports, but seaports, and road ports as well... whole idea is to extend FSM support to all these other station types
11:14<Chicago_R_A>Cool :)
11:14<RichK67>ie. a dock facility where boats queue up for their turn at the unloading bay :)
11:15<Digitalfox_Desktop>But RichK67, this will still be based in newgrf set's in nfo coding right?
11:15<RichK67>yup
11:15<RichK67>so portable, customisable, etc.
11:16<RichK67>TTDP doesnt have support / plans to support this yet, but there is a spec out there somewhere ... ;)
11:17<Digitalfox_Desktop>And how would they made this newgrf specifications work in patch, i mean would they had to copy them..
11:18<RichK67>well, the ppl from Patch ive spoken to are OK that there is nothing that doesnt seem possible, so if ive already implemented a spec, then they are likely to follow it
11:18<Digitalfox_Desktop>oh ok :)
11:18<RichK67>or not... ;)
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11:19<Desolator>boom
11:19<RichK67>main thing is to make it that airports can be designed and loaded by everyone else, rather than be coded by the coding team
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11:20<Chicago_R_A>Good plan.
11:20<RichK67>newgrf just gives flexibility on loading graphic sets along with rest of port info... ie. movement orders, state machine, etc.
11:25<RichK67>anyway, at the moment, its all very experimental - there are a whole host of issues to resolve over how to proceed without breaking existing savegames... if i can get an FSM to load into our OTTD structures from a newgrf, and then for a savegame to safely reload it, then the 90% is done... (leaving the impossible 10% to work on ;) )
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11:26<Chicago_R_A>For a feature like this, is the fear of breaking old savegames so great that it is worth using that as a criteria for progress?
11:26<Chicago_R_A>Not to say that players wouldn't appreciate that - but I'd think that some features would require clean-breaks
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11:27<RichK67>well, we have a working structure for airports already... it would be timewasting to throw that away, so i plan to reuse it where i can... the newgrf is just the loading mechanism
11:27<Chicago_R_A>Understandable
11:28<RichK67>callback support is a bit of an unknown to me... but other than that the rest is pretty much just defining what is already known/supported by our own stuff already
11:28<RichK67>extending it to seaports and roadports will be interesting, but the aircraft_cmd.cpp is the guide there
11:31<Smoovious><RichK67> TTDP doesnt have support / plans to support this yet, but there is a spec out there somewhere ... ;) <--- ya know, it'd be really nice to have a newgrf OTTD supports but the patch doen't yet...
11:32<RichK67>yeah, my fun and games is that while developing the newgrfs, nforenum cant reformat them as it doesnt know the format
11:33<Smoovious>a road station would be nice... put together a multi-tile bay that many trucks use like prototype... maybe even a full bus station
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11:34<Wolf01>hello
11:34<Smoovious>o/
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11:39<RichK67>yup Smoovious - thats the idea... although my main thing is to have a) working airports, then b) multi-tile seaports
11:40<alex__>im just wondering
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11:40<alex__>im using the biggest airport
11:40<alex__>(forgotten the name)
11:40<Chicago_R_A>intercontinental
11:41<alex__>and like the planes dont use the 2 runways to land
11:41<alex__>yeah that one
11:41<RichK67>ah - the small intercontinental (wait for the Schiphol... 6 runways!!)
11:42<alex__>is that what your talking abour RichK67 on working airports?
11:42<alex__>about*
11:42<RichK67>nah - im creating a newgrf loading system to replace the hardcoding of airports we currently have... then the community can design their own
11:42<RichK67>(and debug them!!)
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11:43<alex__>cool :)
11:43<alex__>another question
11:43<RichK67>the intercontinental only uses the second landing runway if the first is already in use... if you throw 30+ aircraft at one, it should use both regularly
11:43<alex__>why cant you build bridges ontop of tunnel entrances?
11:44<alex__>RichK67, ok
11:44<RichK67>alex__ - i think you can in the nightly
11:45<RichK67>ok - hometime... catch ya soon
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11:48<skidd13>Can someone of the dev's comment my performance meter patch: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33121
11:49<skidd13>please
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11:55<Desolator>is there any chance of getting OpenTTD Updater into OTTD's SVN server?
11:57<Sacro>is it cross platform?
11:57<Desolator>win9x, win32, winvista
11:57<Desolator>so no
11:57<Desolator>unless you got luck with wine
11:57<Sacro>port it to X-BOX
11:58<Sacro>then you can have cross platform (the Microsoft way)
11:58<narth>wine != cross platform...
11:58<Sacro>what language is it in?
11:58<Desolator>I don't tihnk there's any way to run it natively in anything other than Windows
11:58<Prof_Frink>Sacro: You mean the One Microsoft Way
11:58<Desolator>*think
11:58<Sacro>Desolator: yes there is
11:58<Desolator>I'l watching
11:58<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Also, you have to discontinue win9x
11:58<Sacro>Prof_Frink: ah yes
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12:01<Sacro>i was thinking of writing a cross platform autoupdater myself
12:01<@Belugas>it looks well done, skidd13
12:01<@Belugas>but i was wondergin why you did not used the TIC/TOC method
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12:03<skidd13>Belugas: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31794&start=18
12:03<KUDr>skidd13: what is this perf-meter good for? I don't see the point of measuring how often we trigger TICK
12:03<@Belugas>very good point :)
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12:05<skidd13>KUDr: To check the performance of changed code. Surely you'll have to load the exactly same savegame. But it gives you a hint if you're on the right way. ;)
12:06<KUDr>but you can see difference only if you have 100% cpu load or did i miss something?
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12:07<KUDr>so you use FF during the measuring?
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12:11<skidd13>KUDr: so you use FF during the measuring? <- true
12:11<Desolator>[19:55] <Desolator> Is there any chance of getting OpenTTD Updater into OTTD's SVN server? It supports only Windows 95 - Windows Vista and is GPL (as of next release).
12:12<skidd13>KUDr: I tried to use it in normal mode. There I got some diffrences too, so I let it enabled.
12:13<KUDr>skidd13: ok, then i understand - did you try to measure 'thread time'?
12:13<KUDr>it is something that is not influenced by other programs running on the box
12:13<Rippsy>peter1138, a little forum post birdie told me you'd got a MOTD style function on your servers but i can't find any posts about it, anychance you could elaborate :)
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12:15<skidd13>Nope So other programs will affect the test. :(
12:15<KUDr>ok
12:16<KUDr>so i would only recommend to remove all calculations from gui code
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12:17<KUDr>would you like to get it into trunk? Os is it supposed to stay as a patch forever?
12:17<skidd13>The thing I worry about is the OS compatibility. I don't know how to get a sufficient timestamp on other OS than Linux and Windows.
12:17<skidd13>KUDr: I'd like to see it in trunk :)
12:17<KUDr>and what about others?
12:18<KUDr>does it improve playability or doe it have any other value for regular user?
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12:18<KUDr>or should it be allowen only for special builds?
12:18<KUDr>like #define USE_PERF_METER
12:19<KUDr>it is probably very good for devs
12:19<skidd13>It is mor or less a kind of debug tool. And a cool comparison for mad designers. :)
12:19<KUDr>so what about some simpler console version
12:20<KUDr>for devs it would be sufficient
12:20<KUDr>and one less window to worry about
12:21<KUDr>i wonder how difficult it will be for me to port all GUI to the new one
12:21<skidd13>I like my gui. It's small and handy, so it could be a tutorial for newbies.
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12:21<KUDr>we have now so many dialogs and so bad designed
12:21<KUDr>lot of logic inside gui
12:21<KUDr>that it will be a real pain
12:22<skidd13>I meant to split the calculation of the gui first. ;)
12:22<KUDr>GUI code should contain only GUI code
12:22<KUDr>yes, it will be needed
12:22<KUDr>so make those functions you will use for manipulating perf values become methods
12:23<KUDr>of that 'struct PerformanceMeter'
12:23<KUDr>so no direct access to data from outside
12:24<KUDr>and then we can have different implementations made later (easily)
12:24<KUDr>and no gui change will be required
12:24<KUDr>only different back-end
12:25<KUDr>and i will make one for me using thread times
12:25<skidd13>OK
12:25<KUDr>but it is only my opinion
12:25<KUDr>and as you already know i am not a god
12:25<KUDr>so wait for other's responses
12:26<KUDr>and then find your own way
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12:26<skidd13>The split off from the GUI is still a nice solution.
12:27<KUDr>if you will do that then you only need to convince other devs that trunk is the right place for it
12:27<KUDr>and i can put it there and take responsibility for maintenance
12:27<KUDr>because i like it
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12:29<skidd13>:) Thanks
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12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10592 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-16 19:35:30
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 4 fixed by tucalipe (4)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 4 fixed by arnaullv (4)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 7 fixed by knovak (7)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 10 fixed, 7 changed by ThomasA (17)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
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13:15<Timwi>Since Trac is down, is there an easy way to obtain a language source file other than downloading the entire source?
13:18<Ammler>Did you ever think about moving the source to sourceforge.net?
13:20<Rubidium>Timwi: why would you want a single language source file?
13:20<Rubidium>and you could use git.openttd.org
13:22<Rubidium>sourceforge is horribly slow and does (as far as I know) not give you control over pre and post commit hooks
13:22<hylje>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/path/to/langfile/
13:23<Rubidium>you can't checkout a single file
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13:24<hylje>really?
13:24<Rubidium>try it
13:26<hylje>what a silly limitation
13:26<hylje>svn copy involves working copies
13:26<Rubidium>svn co is checkout
13:27<hylje>yes but somewhat related
13:28<Rubidium>though svn export works, but only because it doesn't need to make the working copy
13:29<hylje>i see
13:29<Noldo>svn cat file > out.file ?
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13:53<Tlustoch>I am surprised how many people from czech are here.
13:54<Wolf01>some time ago there were a massive ammount of Dutchs, at least in ttf
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14:08<Maarten>Not a lot of Americans though
14:10<skidd13>KUDr: ping
14:10<hylje>americans arent train nuts
14:10<hylje>so we dont have a lot of them
14:15<KUDr>skidd13: gimme 10 mins (eating)
14:15<skidd13>no problem
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14:21<Timwi>[19:21] <Rubidium> Timwi: why would you want a single language source file? Because I want to improve the German translation, it's quite bad
14:21<Timwi>I'm already working on it
14:22<Rubidium>beter request access to the translator tool, because that's the way the translations have to be fixed
14:23<Timwi>?
14:23<Timwi>Why can't I just edit the file?
14:23<+glx>you can but it will be only for yourself
14:23<Timwi>The website suggests that if I wanted to create a new language I would edit the english.txt file
14:24<Timwi>Why will it be only for myself?
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14:24<Digitalfox_Desktop>Timwi: http://translator2.openttd.org/
14:24<Timwi>Are you suggesting that the translations exist in some other format somewhere and the only way to change it there is via some weird tool?
14:25<Digitalfox_Desktop>Weird tool? :\ No it's very easy and works great :)
14:25<Digitalfox_Desktop>Also http://translator2.openttd.org/languages/GlobalStat
14:26<Timwi>OK, that website you linked to does not suggest that I can't send them the corrected txt file
14:26<Timwi>Please tell me your system is well-designed enough that it can reinitialise from an input file
14:26<Rubidium>it can
14:26<Rubidium>*but*
14:26<+glx>but it doesn't like that
14:26<Rubidium>it contains a lot of useful meta data and such
14:27<Rubidium>and it is the only way translation fixes are going into trunk
14:27<Timwi>Well anyway ... I'm improving the German translation, and it is up to you whether you want to harvest my work or not
14:28<Timwi>I don't even mind if your existing translators want to check my changes
14:29<Digitalfox_Desktop>Timwi: Why just don't you edit them at http://translator2.openttd.org/??
14:29<Timwi>Because I have already made hundreds of changes in my txt file
14:29<Timwi>I can send you a diff if you like, but I'm not going to copy and paste them all individually into a web form. It was already enough work as it stands
14:30<Timwi>Also, I can't find a way to edit the translation on that website. Do I need a login?
14:30<+glx>yes you need an account
14:31<Timwi>"In order to be able to use the advanced features of WebTranslator, please log in." So you consider translating stuff an "advanced feature" of the website?
14:31<Timwi>Anyway
14:31<Timwi>As I said
14:31<+glx>we don't want anybody playing with the strings
14:31<Timwi>I will send you my file if you're interested
14:31<Digitalfox_Desktop>I'm a portuguese translator, so i don't have anything to do with German translation... But you wanting things done in your way it's a not a good thing on a community :\
14:32<Timwi>glx: Well clearly you also don't want anybody making suggestions
14:32<+glx>you can make suggestions
14:32<Timwi>Digitalfox_Desktop: I don't want anything, I'm happy to use my translation just for myself
14:32<Timwi>glx: Well my first suggestion would be to make it easier (read: NO LOGIN) to make suggestions
14:32<+glx>post them in bugs.openttd..org and I'm sure it will be forwarded to a german translator
14:32<Timwi>That's completely over the top.
14:33<Timwi>I would make a suggestion to an individual string if I could type the new translation into a text box that is specifically for it. Anything that is more complex than this is going to detract all volunteer contributors
14:33<Timwi>Just to make this clear: I am not complaining, I am trying to give constructive advice.
14:34<JazzyJaffa>Could have fooled me
14:34<Timwi>It is not important to me that my improvements go into trunk. If it is important to you, then you need to work for it, not me.
14:34<Digitalfox_Desktop>Timwi: http://translator2.openttd.org/images/screenshots/th_screenshot_edit_5.png
14:34<Digitalfox_Desktop>That's how it works
14:34<Digitalfox_Desktop>Sorry use this http://translator2.openttd.org/Screenshot
14:34<+glx>Timwi: there's a link in the WT2 main page to mail your suggestions to the WT2 author
14:35<Timwi>I am already making suggestions here :)
14:35<Timwi>If you don't want me to, then I'll shut up
14:35<+glx>well WT2 author is not in the channel currently so...
14:36<Timwi>By the way! I like the fact that the navigational bar at the top has keyboard shortcuts. I see that so rarely on websites! Kudos to whoever added those :)
14:36<Timwi>Oh, I see :) Sorry, for some reason I thought Digitalfox_Desktop was the author
14:36<Rubidium>Timwi: the "problem" is that you are making suggestions to thin air, i.e. the author of WT2/the person that is responsible for all the translations is not here
14:36<Timwi>OK, sorry, misunderstanding on my part
14:37<KUDr>skidd13: pong (PM?)
14:37<Digitalfox_Desktop>Timwi: miham is the author :)
14:37<skidd13>KUDr: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33121&start=0 -> patch #21
14:38<Timwi>OK, I've sent Miham an e-mail asking if he can import a diff
14:38<Timwi>I apologise if I seemed aggressive, it wasn't my intention
14:39<Digitalfox_Desktop>Timwi: No problem :)
14:39<Timwi>I just get easily frustrated when people think volunteers will go through anything for them :)
14:39<+glx>we need to "protect" WT2 access to prevent dumb people to break anything
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14:40<Prof_Frink>Or move to Launchpad and have even more translators
14:40<Rubidium>not only dumb, but also vandals
14:40<Timwi>As I said, my suggestion is not to turn it into a Wiki
14:41<+glx>Rubidium: vandals are dumb for me ;)
14:41<Timwi>Ideally, visitors should be post changes which will then be treated as "suggestions", which a privileged user (a "translator") can then either accept or reject
14:41<Timwi>I meant, should be able to post changes
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14:43<Timwi>Oh ... I forgot to ask:
14:43<Timwi>Is it possible for me to use my modified language file without having to recompile the source?
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14:44<Rubidium>if you've got english.txt and strgen
14:46<Timwi>Yay that works :) Thanks
14:51<KUDr>skidd13: yes, looks much better. But still i see some pieces of code that are worth moving into methods
14:51<KUDr>like: pm->activated = (pm->activated) ? false : true;
14:51<KUDr>and so
14:51<KUDr>still it is not abstract
14:51<KUDr>(the perf meter itself)
14:52<+glx>pm->activated ^= true;
14:52<KUDr>so it can't be enhanced by different measuring methods
14:52<+glx>or pm->activated = !pm->activated;
14:53<KUDr>doesn't matter (it should not be in the GUI code)
14:53<KUDr>if there will be additional action needed for specific perf-meter, you must change it inGUI
14:53<KUDr>GUI should stay only GUI
14:53<KUDr>not like current OTTD
14:55<skidd13>OK I'll splitt more.
14:55<KUDr>sorry if i make you unhappy
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14:55<KUDr>good progress up to now
14:55<skidd13>no problem
14:55<Agone>hi all
14:55<KUDr>hi
14:57<Agone>i'm looking for help, i have trouble getting my dedicated server playable...
14:58<KUDr>can you be more specific?
14:58<KUDr>maybe somebody here can help you then
14:59<Agone>well i have configured a dyndns service, i modified the openttd.cfg settings, the server appears on the website list but not in the game list
15:00<Rubidium>Agone: let me guess, you dedicated server is behind a DSL/cable router?
15:00<+glx>others can see it but you can't ?
15:00<Agone>ya true Rubidium
15:00<Rubidium>if so, it's a common router problem
15:00<Agone>i also modified the NAT rules
15:01<Rubidium>the router only forwards the OTTD port from the external network to the internal network
15:01<Rubidium>but because you are on the internal network, the router doesn't forward it
15:02<Agone>:s
15:02<+glx>you can connect to your server using it's internal IP
15:03<Agone>yup but... others ?
15:03<Rubidium>however, if it shows on servers.openttd.org, it is accessible for everyone (i.e. your router is set up correctly)
15:03<Agone>Rubidium> it does appears on openttd.org, look: http://www.openttd.org/server_detail.php?id=5908
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15:04<Agone>but it's not reachable from the game :/
15:05<Rubidium>it is not reachable for YOU, because of the beforementioned router problem
15:05<+glx>Agone: use a freebox ;)
15:05<Agone>i actually use a freebox :p
15:08<+glx>when I host a server behind my freebox I can see it
15:13|-|Desolator [Desolator@82.79.212.8] has joined #openttd
15:14<Desolator>bump
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15:21<Rippsy>http://www.openttd.org/server_detail.php?id=5701 - Weee :)
15:21<Agone>too bad, yours works :s
15:21<Rippsy>I set mine up last week,
15:21<Desolator>what newgrfs?
15:21<Rippsy>none
15:21<Desolator>crap...
15:22<Rippsy>make sure your forwarding udp and tcp
15:22<Agone>Desolator> only planeset
15:22<Desolator>more crap
15:22<Agone>Rippsy> i do
15:22<Desolator>why not av8
15:22<Desolator>?
15:22<+glx>it is accessible from outside
15:22<Rippsy>if udp and tcp are both forwarded to the internal IP address where you are hosting the server it should be fine
15:22<Rippsy>as glx just said
15:22<Rippsy>its just you will see it on lant
15:22<Rippsy>*lan
15:22<Rippsy>Desolator, i've just not had time to find some grf's to use yet tbh
15:22<Rippsy>once I finish setting up my servers i'll host some
15:23<Desolator>I can send ya my collection
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15:23<Rippsy>Naww i'll choose my own :)
15:23<Rippsy>i want to know how peter1138 setup a welcome msg on his server before I start adding more stuff
15:23<+glx>but the weird thing is that I use the same modem, and I can see my server when I start one
15:23<Desolator>Brian's autopilot?
15:23<Rubidium>glx: same modem? you are 100% sure of that?
15:24<Desolator>Rippsy: and is it running OTTD Updater? (:P)
15:24<Rubidium>I know of several DSL modems that were "the same", but actually were internally totally different
15:24<Agone>added my serveur as a LAN serveur... i can connect to it
15:24<Rippsy>it will be tomorrow :)
15:24<+glx>but the firmware is the same
15:24<Rippsy>naww Desolator, don't want to run autopilot
15:24<Rippsy>Got my own in the works which is going to use PHP
15:24<Desolator>y not?
15:24<Rippsy>so its platform independant
15:24<Desolator>oh
15:25<Rippsy>still investigating things for it though
15:25<Rippsy>:)
15:25<Rubidium>Rippsy: and autopilot isn't?
15:25<Rippsy>Rubidium, expect isn't
15:25<Rippsy>or at least I found it damn awkward :)
15:25<Rippsy>im still playing around
15:25<Rubidium>it works on Windows and Linux
15:26<Rubidium>it probably doesn't on MorphOS, but who cares?
15:26<Prof_Frink>Rippsy: Just write a one-line perl script
15:26<Rippsy>I want other things as well though :)
15:26<Rippsy>as I said, still investigating
15:29<Agone>problem solved, thx glx
15:30<Agone>cya in the game all...
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15:45<Rippsy>Prof_Frink, to do what?
15:45<Rippsy>just echo the console out?
15:45<Prof_Frink>Rippsy: Everything.
15:45<Rippsy>lol
15:45<Rippsy>:D
15:45<Rippsy>perls the devil ;)
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16:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10593 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1038]: one could not remove locks that were build in a (very) old version of OpenTTD.
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2><Smoovious> a road station would be nice... put together a multi-tile bay that many trucks use like prototype... maybe even a full bus station <- a 2x2 turning station for trams \o/
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16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: richk * r10594 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (airport_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: restored original airport placement functionality. You can now place an airport using newgrf, or using original method.
16:13<Wolf01>'night
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16:18<Murray-Mint>hey Rippsy
16:19<Rippsy>lo
16:19<Rippsy>invasion tbh
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16:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: richk * r10595 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (85 files in 9 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r10559-10593
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16:28<SmatZ>bye all, tommorow I am leaving to Italia ...
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16:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: richk * r10596 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/airport_gui.cpp:
16:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: missed move of SetDParam into strings.h.
16:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Note to self: recompile after sync with trunk, even if no conflicts. ;)
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16:44<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r10597 /branches/NewGRF_ports/projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix r10595: forgot one project file
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause2>!calc ibase=16;1000
17:02<_42_>Eddi|zuHause2: 4096;
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17:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: richk * r10598 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/rb_airport2.grf: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Modified rb_airport2.grf to use company colours on buildings.
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17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: richk * r10599 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/station_cmd.cpp:
17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Updated RemoveAirport function to work with either old or new style airport placements.
17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: WARNING: this has highlighted bug where IsRailwayStation returns true for any
17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: graphic with id 0..7. So custom layouts trigger the wrong delete routine. To
17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: test; delete click on tower to trigger bug. Normal airport delete works OK
17:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: clicking on helipad.
18:11<Sacro>:o
18:11<Sacro>HE'S BACK! :D
18:15<Eddi|zuHause2>HIDE EVERYBODY! :p
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18:17[~]Sacro hides Eddi|zuHause2 under a bucket
18:18<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, my system is acting up, and i can't figure out, why...
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18:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10600 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: code-stylising the gui switch-case code
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18:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10601 /trunk/ (17 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: store (and use) the type of stations instead of hardcoding station types by graphics IDs.
19:01<Phazorx>is crash in tunnel resolved?
19:03<Rubidium>no
19:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10602 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (19 files in 5 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r10593:10601.
19:03<Phazorx>hmm... sucks :|
19:04<Rubidium>yup, but I've got no idea how to solve it and the person who has is very busy
19:04<Phazorx>what's the root of the issue?
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 17 00:00:43 2007