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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-18

---Logopened Wed Jul 18 00:00:20 2007
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01:10<@TrueBrain>morning all
01:10<@TrueBrain>how are we doing today?
01:11<@TrueBrain>let me put up a nice music
01:12[~]Smoovious touches the brim of his black hat™ to TrueBrain
01:13<@TrueBrain>and now, now I am bored
01:13<@TrueBrain>what will I be doing today...
01:14<Smoovious>coding up subways
01:14<@TrueBrain>subways? Not my area :)
01:14<Smoovious>was worth a shot
01:14<@TrueBrain>true true
01:14<@TrueBrain>maybe I should revive my demo-patch
01:15<@TrueBrain>or my head-to-head
01:15<@TrueBrain>bleh, too many projects
01:15<Smoovious>... not enuf motivation?
01:15<@TrueBrain>no, too many projects :)
01:16<Smoovious>ahh... in my case, they both go hand-in-hand
01:16<Smoovious>lose interest too fast
01:16<@TrueBrain>that only happens when I do not start doing something :)
01:16<@TrueBrain>when I am back busy doing something, the interest is bac k:p
01:18<Smoovious>has there been a consensus about the method to save passwords in network games yet?
01:18<@TrueBrain>I have no idea! Didn't follow that discussion
01:19<@TrueBrain>I would store it plain-text, as nobody gives a rat
01:19<Noldo>the server owner will be able to reset them somehow anyway
01:20<@TrueBrain>and the server owner can read your password now too
01:20<@TrueBrain>(a simple packet-filter will show it)
01:20<@TrueBrain>or a simple code-hack
01:20<Noldo>plain-text over network is another thing
01:20<Smoovious>just so long as when a game is reloaded, the passwords are retained, is all I really care about
01:21<@TrueBrain>so store it plaintext in the savegame, and it will be like that
01:21<@TrueBrain>would take the average client about 10 minutes to find the password and login to your company, but you can't have it all
01:21<Noldo>but make it so that if you save in on the client...
01:21<Smoovious>I'd prefer the savegame, but there's been a lot o f opposition
01:21<@TrueBrain>(also easy to resolve btw :p)
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01:22<@TrueBrain>(as in, on client-savegame send, do not store the passwords)
01:22<Noldo>yes
01:22<Desolator>why don't store the hashes on the server?
01:22<Desolator>in a separate file?
01:23<@TrueBrain>yeah, let's create tons of files!
01:23<@TrueBrain>who gives a rat anyway
01:23<Desolator>1 file!
01:23<@TrueBrain>if I move my savegame from server1 to server2, I expect, no, demand the passwords to be intact either
01:23<Desolator>and tell the client to send the md5 of the password and it's compared server-side, then reply with OK or NO
01:24<Noldo>no!
01:24<@TrueBrain>in my hard opinion: overcomplication of a simple thing
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01:24<@TrueBrain>but okay, I was not getting into this discussion :)
01:24<Desolator>well, got any other ideas?
01:24<@TrueBrain>I just told, yes
01:24<@peter1138>md5sum is what i'd do, but apparently that isn't secure enough these days
01:24<Desolator>SHa-512?
01:24<@TrueBrain>peter1138: base the md5 on nothing, and you are safe
01:25<@TrueBrain>just take the day, the savegame name, and the server-computer-clock
01:25<@TrueBrain>and send the md5 back to server and client
01:25<@TrueBrain>even reversing that shit will result in.. well.. nothing...
01:25<@TrueBrain>but again: who gives a shit if the passwords are there plaintext on the server?
01:25<@TrueBrain>sniffing the network will result in the passwords anyway
01:25<Smoovious>think the level of security issue is overblown tho
01:26<@TrueBrain>so: need for encryption? NO!
01:26<Desolator>Smoovious: I said that on the forums, too
01:26<Smoovious>rot13 it
01:26<@TrueBrain>like protecting your house with 100 locks and I dunno what more
01:26<@TrueBrain>and leave your front door wide open
01:26<Desolator>they're some damn passwords, if someone steal a company the admin can ban him
01:26<hylje>double rot13!
01:27<Desolator>that's...the same text
01:27<Noldo>no shit
01:27<@TrueBrain>we have an Einstein here!
01:27<Smoovious>XOR each byte?
01:27<@peter1138>TrueBrain: sniffing is a bit harder than download a savegame as a spectator and getting them from there
01:27<Desolator>...
01:27<@peter1138>+ing
01:27<@TrueBrain>peter1138: as I just said, just make the client-savegame without passwords
01:27<@TrueBrain>simple to add
01:27<@TrueBrain>(just an extra SLE_XXX in the worst case)
01:27<Smoovious>they shouldn't be saved in the save sent to a connecting user
01:28<@TrueBrain>but most likely a new chunk can do that just fine
01:28<Smoovious>thhe o nly password the clients s hould h ave in t heir g ame, is their own
01:28[~]peter1138 smacks Smoovious' spacebar
01:28<@TrueBrain>peter1138: so would there anything wrong with that solution?
01:28<@TrueBrain>+be
01:28<@peter1138>no
01:28<Smoovious>cut it out, peter1138... the eybouncing is bad enuf already
01:28<@TrueBrain>so I guess we have a solution :p
01:29<Smoovious>great... code it up, TrueBrain! :D >runs<
01:29<@TrueBrain>just on password put-in, it should give you a warning: passwords ARE stored plaintext on the server, do NOT use your normal-all-access password
01:29<@TrueBrain>for which ever morron does that anyway...
01:29<@TrueBrain>-r
01:30<Smoovious>yeah...
01:30<Smoovious>people should have a few frequently re-used unimportant passwords anyways
01:30<Noldo>like foobar?
01:30<Smoovious>yeah
01:30<@TrueBrain>I always take sound of animals, really useful!
01:31<hylje>rawr
01:32<@peter1138>roar
01:32<Smoovious>I use words from fictional alien languages from sci fi books
01:33<Noldo>nusuth
01:33<Desolator>C
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01:46<@TrueBrain>k, Smoovious, let's see if my easy patch works :p
01:47<@TrueBrain>it does compile, so that is something :p
01:48[~]Smoovious chuckles.
01:50<@TrueBrain>segfault
01:50<@TrueBrain>COOL!
01:50<Smoovious>yay!
01:51<Smoovious>:D
01:51<@TrueBrain>haha, we have a storage code called 'SLE_STRING', which is never used, and asserts :)
01:51<Smoovious>probably why it is never used...
01:54<hylje>:o
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01:55<@TrueBrain>really odd
01:56<@TrueBrain>it has code in many places which should allow support for it, but on the places where it matters, it isn't there...
01:56<@TrueBrain>like finding lights in a house, but no light bubbles
01:56<hylje>light bulbs
01:56<@TrueBrain>those things, yes
01:57<@TrueBrain>okay, settings do use part of the code for string storing..
01:58<@peter1138>SLE_STRING works
01:58<Smoovious>kinda like whoever did it was expecting other programming for it, which never happened?
01:58<@TrueBrain>peter1138: in an SlObject?
01:58<@peter1138>but it uses SLE_STR nor SLE_VAR
01:58<@peter1138>for some reason
01:58<@peter1138>yes
01:58<@TrueBrain>and SLE_CONDSTR doesn't exists...
01:59<@peter1138>does
01:59<@TrueBrain>huh? You are right...
01:59<@peter1138>it's just not used yet
01:59<@TrueBrain>wait, length argument :)
01:59<@TrueBrain>that most likely is why it uses SLE_STR
02:00<@TrueBrain>tnx peter1138 :)
02:00<@peter1138>you can use 0 for the length, heh
02:01<@TrueBrain>yeah, but it is a static string size, so...
02:01<@TrueBrain>but okay, 0 is more useful in this case I guess
02:02<@peter1138>if it's a fixed buffer use the length of that
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02:02<@TrueBrain>doesn't really matter
02:02<@TrueBrain>but I use SLE_STRINGBUF
02:02<@TrueBrain>so
02:02<@TrueBrain>then it does :)
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02:12<@TrueBrain>peter1138: I thought chunks not handled were ignored, but if they are in the savegame, they NEED to be handled
02:12<@TrueBrain>sucks
02:20<hylje>oh noooooooes data inconsistency ;_;
02:22<@peter1138>yeah
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02:23<@TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/network_password_store.patch
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02:34<@TrueBrain>hmm, technical wrong :p haha
02:43<@peter1138>yes
02:43<@peter1138>you need to conditionally save it, not conditionally load ;)
02:43<@TrueBrain>exactly :)
02:43<@TrueBrain>so reload the patch :)
02:44<@TrueBrain>solves an other bug: if you join a company with a password
02:44<@TrueBrain>and go to company, Set Password
02:44<@TrueBrain>it shows th epassword again
02:44<@peter1138>+ /* Do not store passwords if the company doens't have any */
02:44<@peter1138>+ if (_network_player_info[p->index].password[0] == '\0') continue;
02:44<@peter1138>does that work right?
02:44<@peter1138>hmm
02:44<@peter1138>oh yes, it stores the player index later
02:44<hylje>doesn't
02:44<@TrueBrain>didn't test thatone in fact, is my latest addition :p
02:45<@TrueBrain>but I see no reason why it wouldn't work
02:45<@peter1138>if you do this
02:46<@peter1138>then we need a console command to reset a password
02:46<Smoovious>why would seeing thhe password of a company you already joined be a problem?
02:46<@TrueBrain>isn't there already?
02:46<@peter1138>no
02:46<@TrueBrain>Smoovious: currently you don't see that, which annoys people (which is logic)
02:47<@TrueBrain>one thing it doesn't fix though, is if client A in company A changes the password, and client B in company A is also connected; he won't see that
02:47<Smoovious>>nods<
02:47<Smoovious>output a line to th e chat window, confirming the password change?
02:47<@TrueBrain>but okay, it is something :)
02:47<Smoovious>in 'team' mode?
02:48<@peter1138>in fact a console to set a company password might be handy
02:48<@TrueBrain>but okay, that all are other patches :)
02:49<@TrueBrain>I just wanted to show how simple storing passwords can be done
02:49<Smoovious>it'd definitely save me the troublel of logging into all the computer players and setting passwords on them
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02:57<mikk36>lol
02:57<mikk36>way too good :D
02:57<mikk36>http://www.mediablog.cz/story.php?id=2525
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03:19<Tlustoch>So you are going to make pathfinder without terraforming??
03:20<Smoovious>should be possible, since we can build on slopes now
03:20<@TrueBrain>Tlustoch: at first, yes
03:20<Smoovious>maybe limited terraforming to flatten enuf space to place the station
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03:23<Tlustoch>I think that YAPF will be quite useless when you start terraforming.
03:23<Noldo>how come?
03:23<Tlustoch>It just has no terraforming options.
03:24<Tlustoch>It's for finding route, not building.
03:24<@TrueBrain>it has no terraforming options _yet_
03:26<@TrueBrain>but Tlustoch, if you think you can do better, please do :) Your patch is welcome! Anything smarter than my Stupid Pathfinder is welcome :)
03:28<Tlustoch>My personal opinion is that with this approach you will have problems to do something better.
03:28<@TrueBrain>and why would that be?
03:29<Tlustoch>The YAPF code is hard to read but I would say that it tries to find just any first straightforward route.
03:29<@TrueBrain>that isn't true, but besides all that; which ever approach we take now, doesn't force us to take any approach later
03:29<@TrueBrain>we just need things to work with, so you can make a working AI
03:29<@TrueBrain>from that point on, imrpvoements are always possible, anywhere, any time
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03:31<Smoovious>how are the scripts for the NoAI supposed to work anyways? like... implemented...
03:31<@TrueBrain>?
03:32<@TrueBrain>I don't get what you mean with: implemented
03:32<Smoovious>well, thought the NoAI branch was supposed to make it possible for there to be different AI's a vailable
03:32<Noldo>Tlustoch: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33054 did you see this?
03:32<Tlustoch>I am playing with this visual planner now.
03:32<Smoovious>like... each AI is a sepperate file? where would it be put... how would client//server insure they're both running t he same AI file, etc etc
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03:33<@TrueBrain>Smoovious: 1) read the wiki-entry, 2) read the forum-topic, 3) download the NoAI binaries and give it a shot :)
03:33<@TrueBrain>you would be suprised :)
03:33<Smoovious>...
03:33<@TrueBrain>but okay: networking: the clients do not even need to have the AI, the server runs it and the clients get it as any other client
03:33<@TrueBrain>and the rest is clearly answered in the wiki-entry
03:33<Smoovious>ok good enuf
03:33<Smoovious>that was the issue I was most concerned about
03:34<@TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AI:Main_Page
03:34<@TrueBrain>worth reading :)
03:34<@TrueBrain>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/AI:Introduction
03:34<Smoovious>thnxy
03:34<@TrueBrain>thatone the most
03:34<Noldo>Tlustoch: it seems to me that Yapf there isn't "trying to find just any first straightforward route"
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03:36<Tlustoch>It does because it doesn't have any terraforming options :-)
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03:38<Noldo>plaah
03:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10608 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: comment some functions to make Doxygen happy
03:40<KUDr>Tlustoch: YAPF is only skeleton for any A* based PF - you must write custom follower for you application (that understands all movement options) and your PfCost (that can tell which option is better)
03:41<KUDr>so everything is possible but with terraforming you will not have just 3 options how to follow to the next node but much more - so the number of approaches you will need to test is MUCH bigger
03:42<KUDr>and of course it can become unusable (too slow)
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03:51<Tlustoch>:-)
03:51<Tlustoch>I see that it does not prefer longest straight route.
03:52<Tlustoch>It changes direction only before obstacle.
03:52<KUDr>depends on curve cost
03:53<KUDr>it is not feature of YAPF itself
03:53<KUDr>but PfCost routine
03:53<Tlustoch>The cost is same, if you will do curve now or later.
03:53<Tlustoch>But if you will do curve sooner, you can achieve longer straight way.
03:54<KUDr>what are you trying?
03:54<KUDr>ships?
03:54<@TrueBrain>so give a bonus for every straight tile, and it will work out perfectly
03:54<KUDr>curve on water is penalized by 10 points (like one straight tile cost)
03:55<Tlustoch>I am trying with rails.
03:55<Tlustoch>Maybe I should make screenshot
03:55<KUDr>for trains you can customize curve penalty
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03:56<KUDr>everything depends on cost
03:56<KUDr>if you think it should be better tunned, do it and post bug
03:56<@TrueBrain>and penalties can only do so much :)
03:57<KUDr>yes
03:57<KUDr>the path choosen is based on penalties
03:57<KUDr>nothing else
03:58<KUDr>like in real life - (i.e. hight speed penalty)
03:58<KUDr>i will quickly learn to not do it again :)
03:58<Noldo>:D
03:58<@TrueBrain>lol :)
03:58<@TrueBrain>"I will", as he does in the future
03:58<@TrueBrain>so he needs one more... :p
03:59<KUDr>yes, one more attempt is needed in the real life
03:59<KUDr>but YAPF can roll-back and try different way
04:00<@TrueBrain>:p
04:01<Tlustoch>http://www.lastevolution.org/screen1.png
04:01<Tlustoch>This one
04:01<Tlustoch>manually built route is obviously better
04:01<@TrueBrain>obviously?
04:02<@TrueBrain>depends on the max-speed of the train
04:02<KUDr>ahh, you are playing with JazzyJaffa's pathc!
04:02<Tlustoch>Yes, but in lot of situations this will be better
04:02<KUDr>why didn't you tell that
04:03<KUDr>this is only fist approach and all is Jaffa's code not YAPF
04:03<KUDr>YAPF is there only used as skeleton
04:03<Tlustoch>It's not YAPF?
04:03<Tlustoch>So how would YAPF solve the problem on the screenshot?
04:03<KUDr>so please don't tell such things like "YAPF preffers..." - they are not true
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04:03<KUDr>YAPF is not responsible for which route is taken
04:04<KUDr>YAPF is infrastructure that allows you to make custom PF
04:04<KUDr>in very fast / simple way
04:04<Noldo>Tlustoch: if you remove that little hill it will make the "laneswitch" in the end?
04:04<KUDr>it is used there as such framework
04:04<KUDr>all cost calculations are made by Jaffa
04:05<Tlustoch>Do you have some tutorial how to work with YAPF?
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04:06<KUDr>this Jaffa's route planner could be easily made on top of NPF instead and would work thesame way
04:06<KUDr>would you then tell that "NPF doesn't prefer..."?
04:06<KUDr>heh
04:06<KUDr>no
04:06<KUDr>it is for programers (advanced)
04:07<KUDr>but try NPF - it is much simpler
04:07<KUDr>it is alsoskeleton
04:07<KUDr>less optimized but easier to learn
04:08<KUDr>you can learn from existing implementations (trains, RVs, etc)
04:08<KUDr>use them as examples
04:08<KUDr>they are commented so it should be enough
04:09<Tlustoch>Maybe later :-).
04:09<Tlustoch>What about junctions?
04:09<Tlustoch>Does YAPF handle it?
04:09<KUDr>follower must report "more than one option" and YAPF/NPF skeleton will do the rest
04:10<KUDr>or do you mean joins?
04:10<KUDr>or choose?
04:11<Tlustoch>I mean if you have to cross another rail, if it will make junction or avoid it. And when it does junctions, if the trains will be not stucked.
04:11<KUDr>read some A* article first and you will understand better what i am talkingabout
04:11<KUDr>which implementation you are talking about?
04:11<KUDr>Jaffa's?
04:12<Tlustoch>There are better algorithms than A* :-)
04:12<KUDr>ok, then do it better way
04:12<Tlustoch>Just YAPF, corssing another rail is general problem.
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04:12<KUDr>your patch will be welcome
04:12<KUDr>if it will do better job
04:13<KUDr>crossing another rail?
04:13<KUDr>it is only 'cost' problem
04:13<KUDr>you must implement penalty for such crossing
04:13<Tlustoch>But you have to build signals.
04:13<KUDr>heh, what areyou talking about?
04:14<KUDr>it has nothing to do with pathfinding
04:14<KUDr>ok, timeto go to work
04:14<Tlustoch>Really??
04:14<Tlustoch>ok
04:14<Eddi|zuHause2>Tlustoch: YAPF does not build anything
04:14<Eddi|zuHause2>it is totally up to you what you do with the return value of YAPF
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04:15<KUDr>Tlustoch: post me your phone number - we can clarify it better using phone :)
04:15<KUDr>in czech
04:15<Tlustoch>So you will need another algorithm for building junctions :-)
04:15<Tlustoch>I am very poor - I don't have phone.
04:15<KUDr>huh
04:16<Tlustoch>And I want to try my aproach first.
04:16<@TrueBrain>KUDr: code for he doesn't want to talk to you irl :p
04:16<KUDr>:)
04:16<KUDr>ok, bye
04:16<Tlustoch>bye
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04:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10609 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 3 dirs):
04:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added GetAirportWidth / GetAirportHeight
04:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added GetCoverageRadius / GetAirportCoverageRadius
04:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: AiportAvailable was bugged, returned always true for AT_SMALL
04:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: improved WrightAI to work from 1950 (based on above functions)
04:23<Noldo>WrightAI :)
04:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10610 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Fix r10609: typo in WrightAI
04:24<Rubidium>Noldo: ofcourse you know what wright means, right?
04:25<@TrueBrain>morning Rubidium :)
04:25<Rubidium>morning TrueBrain
04:25<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/network_password_store.patch
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04:28<Rubidium>you don't need to do COND stuff for new chunks
04:29<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: absolutely true, but I think it is a bit more clear :)
04:29<Rubidium>does stringbuf "just" write the whole buffer?
04:29<@TrueBrain>no, it writes the string, with the max size of 'len'
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04:30<@TrueBrain>but okay, I can avoid the savegame bump
04:30<Rubidium>NetworkPlayerInfo isn't available without networking
04:30<Rubidium>neither is NETWORK_PASSWORD_LENGTH (IIRC)
04:31<Rubidium>_network_player_info[p->index].password[0] == '\0' <- StrEmpty(...)
04:31<@TrueBrain>oh, _network_store_password_desc should be inside the ENABLE_NETWORK block
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04:33<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: reload
04:37<Rubidium>I'm still not very comfortable with storing the password in the savegame; for example Brianetta regularly posts savegames of the currently running game on his website (and of previous games)
04:37<@TrueBrain>his problem, not?
04:37<Rubidium>which makes it still quite easy to do harm
04:37<@TrueBrain>I mean..
04:38<@TrueBrain>which ever way to pick, a client will be able to find a way around it if you start posting savegames of current running games
04:38<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd prefer separate file...
04:38<Rubidium>TrueBrain: not if you do not store the password in the savegame, but a separate file
04:38<@TrueBrain>then moving savegames from host to host fails badly with passwords too, and blabla continues
04:39<Rubidium>yeah, but how often do you move a network game to another server?
04:39<@TrueBrain>personally I do it pretty often
04:39<Eddi|zuHause2>you could do a *.sav and a *.pwd file, if you want to move servers, you have to copy both, if you want to publish the game, only copy the .sav
04:39<@TrueBrain>anyway, I think it overcomplicate things that aren't secure to start with
04:40<@TrueBrain>if users want to get into someone else's company that badly
04:40<@TrueBrain>:s
04:40<Eddi|zuHause2>it's not that difficult and you have complete control
04:40<@TrueBrain>as I tihnk I can get into any company within some minutes
04:42<Rubidium>I really want you to try that, but I can't set up a server with a client that has a password at the moment
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05:41<mikk36>nice
05:41<mikk36>no more java with firefox :D
05:48<Noldo>what?
05:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10611 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
05:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: improved FindBestXXX, it now finds the fastest, biggest vehicle available
05:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API]: FindBestXXX now takes max_cost as 3rd param, to find a vehicle below a given treshhold
05:54<@TrueBrain>now WrightAI buys concordes when they are possible :)
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06:00<Noldo>haha
06:10<Gekko>I don't like the concorde
06:10<Gekko>I don't find it useful whatsoever
06:10<Gekko>I love that russian plane in one of those grfs
06:10<Gekko>I get $200,000 everytime it lands for mail!
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06:34<Smoovious>mail gets ignored too much... it is actually a good cargo... just gotta plan it right
06:34<ln->http://google.fi/groups?threadm=1183736978.156176.255480@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com
06:34<Smoovious>did a game once where I did nothing but mail
06:35<Smoovious>and no subsidies... >hint hint to add my subsidies patch :) <
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06:50<mikk36>Noldo, after firefox upgraded itself to 2.0.0.5, it announced that java console 6.0.1 is no longer compatible with firefox :D
06:51<Noldo>ah
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07:04<Noldo>JazzyJaffa: how's the ship pf thing going?
07:07<Phazorx>hmm... Rubidium which is that tunnels/bridges bug on FS? so i can just look up there instead of asking here about progress :)
07:07<@TrueBrain>@openttd bugs 1030
07:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [FS#1030] Bug Report (sev: High, prio: Normal, status: Assigned): 'Trains crash at certain circumstances', by Danny - http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1030
07:07<@TrueBrain>thatone?
07:10<Phazorx>thank you... checking
07:11<Phazorx>i tihnk it was introduces with 513 so yeah
07:12<Phazorx>hmm... it says peter is working on that one...
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07:49<Tlustoch>How do I define constant multidemnsional array, when I want to associate first dimension with constant?
07:50<Tlustoch>For example const int A=1, const int B=2; const int C[4][3] and I want to say that C[A]={'1','2','3'}
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07:53<blathijs>Tlustoch: int C[4][3] = {{1, 2, 3}} might do what you want
07:54<blathijs>Tlustoch: Don't know what it will do with the other elements though
07:55<+glx>blathijs: but that init C[0] I think
07:55<Tlustoch>You can do it easily as nonconstant, but I don't know how to write it as constant.
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08:04<blathijs>Tlustoch: Ah, like that...
08:04<blathijs>Don't think you can do that
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08:09<Tlustoch>How do I make array with range from -2 to 2?
08:09<blathijs>You don't
08:10<blathijs>Or, you add 2 when indexing the array :-)
08:10<Noldo>you can make a class in c++ that works like that
08:11<Sacro>grrrr
08:12<Sacro>i hate linux currentrly
08:14<Gekko[PDA]>why
08:15<Sacro>it's being an arse with my network
08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>{'1','2','3'} = "123"?
08:17<Gekko[PDA]>Sacro: lol
08:17<Gekko[PDA]>fix your network
08:17<Sacro>i don't know how to
08:17<Gekko[PDA]>nuke it
08:17<Gekko[PDA]>iptables hax
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08:18<Sacro>eh?
08:19<Gekko[PDA]>eh
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08:25<Ailure>what kind of network is it anyway
08:25<Ailure>if it's SMB, then i'm not surprised
08:25<Ailure>:p
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08:34<Sacro>Gekko[PDA]: are you stalking me :o
08:35<Gekko[PDA]>i waz considering it
08:35<Sacro>i mean.... is that you in #archlinux on freenode?
08:35<Gekko[PDA]>yes
08:36<Sacro>:o
08:36<Gekko[PDA]>im also on efnet
08:36<Sacro>i've not been on efnet in yeeeeeeeeeeears
08:36<Sacro>#gbatemp ftw
08:36<Gekko[PDA]>on a pda
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08:57<JazzyJaffa>Noldo: Just cleaning it up for a patch, works well but could do with some route caching for performance that equals trains.
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09:09<@peter1138>>:o
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09:15<Timwi>Hi
09:16<Timwi>Can someone explain in a few words what a "prospecting industry" is or what it means to "prospect a new industry"?
09:18<@Belugas>prospecting is paying for the research (prospection) of a new industry somewhere on the map
09:18<@Belugas>it is different than simply building an industry, in the sens that (code-wise) there is a chance the prospection will eventually fail
09:18<@Belugas>but you did paid for it
09:19<@Belugas>so, if it fails, you will loose money without having a new industry creatd
09:20<@Belugas>if it succeed in prospecting, a new industry will be created and you will be credited for the cost of it
09:20<@Belugas>it is a feature required for newindutries
09:20<@Belugas>it was designed by a TTDPatch dev initially
09:21<@Belugas>part of the moreindustry patch
09:21<@Belugas>ok... that was not "few words" :P
09:25<Eddi|zuHause2>as long as it is finite :p
09:27<@Belugas>ho... one more thing : it only applies to primary industries, i.e: extractive and organic ones
09:28<@Belugas>like mines and farms, oil extraction and all...
09:30<@Belugas>mmh... is it me or the user does not pay when it failed?
09:31<Timwi>Thanks for the description, I'm trying to find a good German translation for it
09:32<@Belugas>ok, user wil be credited. cool. Good job Rubidium :)
09:32<@Belugas>no problem Timwi
09:33<Timwi>"to work (a mine or claim) experimentally in order to test its value." I suppose this is the meaning of "to prospect" used here?
09:34<Timwi>It seems like a rather technical industry term, which is not in any normal German dictionary :/
09:36<ln->"prospektieren"
09:36<Timwi>Sicher?
09:36<ln->nicht sicher, aber solche wort existiert.
09:37<Timwi>I know, but I'm not sure if it's used in industry specifically
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09:37<@Belugas>claiming is not right, since you know it exists
09:37<@Belugas>same for work
09:38<Timwi>I don't understand what you mean now, Belugas :)
09:38<@Belugas>propecting means doing some research (geologically and else) in order to find a suitable site on which resources can be exploited
09:38<ln->7 (malmia ym) (kaivost) schürfen (nach<dat> ~) ~ kultaa nach Gold schürfen 8 (kaiv; mineraaleja, malmia) (kaivost) prospektieren (prospektiert hat)
09:39<Timwi>Mmmmh Finnish
09:39<@Belugas>like wandering on the whole country and testing the ground and the underground in order to find something
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09:39<Timwi>OK, I'm beginning to get the impression that it is indeed "prospektieren"
09:40<@Belugas>like a gold mine : you do not say "Hey, I'll start a gold mine here". You first test the region to see if there is gold
09:40<Timwi>Yeah
09:40<@Belugas>if it does not have gold, you search somewhere else
09:40<Timwi>Now, there is a patch config option that says:
09:40<Timwi>Manual primary industry construction method:
09:40<Timwi>one of the possible values is "prospecting"
09:41<Timwi>Does that just mean that it will enable the use of prospection?
09:41<@Belugas>that is exactly what i'm talking about :)
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09:41<@Belugas>yes indeed
09:41<Timwi>OK, thanks
09:41<Timwi>Phew, right, I've updated my language file with all the newest strings from SVN now
09:41<ln->why not ask eddi|zH's opinion too
09:42<Timwi>Eddi|zuHause, are you on the German translation team for OpenTTD?
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>no
09:42<@Belugas>but he knows german and OTTD quite well ;)
09:42<Timwi>Ah, good :-) How would you translate "to prospect a new industry"?
09:43<Timwi>Belugas: If he *were* a member of the team, I *wouldn't* have asked him, because the team has already mucked up the translation :-p
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>http://dict.leo.org/?search=prospect&searchLoc=-1&lp=ende&lang=de
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>hey, the translators do accept suggestions
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>i have asked to change certain things several times
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause>something like "Erfolgsaussichten einer neuen Industrie prüfen"
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>i would not follow too closely to the english string
09:45<@Belugas>Timwi, you should propose the translation to the translation team, otherwise, i doubt your effort will gain anything, since they are the ones in control
09:46<ln->there really is a team for german?
09:46<@Belugas>and as devs, we do not force things to translators
09:46<ln->emphasis on team
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09:46<Timwi>Belugas: I already have, I haven't received a reply, and also, I don't care if they use it, I'm only doing it for myself
09:46<@Belugas>team may be a big word :)
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: there are like 3 translators, i don't know how far they work together
09:46<Timwi>Eddi|zuHause: Super Idee - danke
09:46<ln->because MiHaMiX has done his best to avoid people even knowing who else is translating the same language.
09:47<Timwi>Eddi|zuHause: They don't -- a peruse of the file shows clearly that it's been made by different translators of varying competence
09:48<+glx>ln-: a translator for a language knows who are the other translators for this language
09:48<+glx>he can even send a mail to these translators
09:48<Timwi>WTF:
09:48<Timwi>STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP :{BLACK}The amount of money this company has taken on loan
09:48<Timwi>STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP :{BLACK}Schuldenfalle?
09:48<Timwi>:-D
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>lmao :p
09:48<ln->glx: seems like something has improved.
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>Timwi: i would classify that as an easter egg :)
09:49<Timwi>Heh yeah
09:49<Tlustoch>What data structure should I use when I need to keep list of pairs of numbers?
09:49<Timwi>But the sad truth is that it was probably not meant as one
09:49<Timwi>Tlustoch: list? :)
09:50<ln->list of integers bit-shifted.
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>Timwi: "svn blame" and "svn log" to find out who did that translation, and you can ask them about the intention
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>"svn blame" gives you the revision, and "svn log" gives you the translator involved in that revision
09:51<Timwi>Eddi|zuHause: Not interested enough :-p I'll just fix it for myself and send the fix as a suggestion which they may or may not accept
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09:53<@Belugas>send the fix where? give it to Mihamix, when he'll be around. He's the translation leader of all teams
09:54<Timwi>If that is Miham Kerekes, then I've already contacted him (albeit via email)
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09:54<Eddi|zuHause>@seen Neonox
09:54<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen Neonox.
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>!seen Neonox
09:54<_42_>Eddi|zuHause, Neonox (~Neonox@p54ABE5D6.dip.t-dialin.net) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 22 hours 38 minutes ago (17.07. 16:16) stating "Quit: Verlassend" after spending 7 minutes there.
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>that's a translator, for example...
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>i would strongly suggest to talk to him
09:55<Timwi>(auch noch Telekomkunde, murmelmurmel)
09:55<Timwi>:)
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>i am, too
09:55<Timwi>Just joking
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>as is like 70% of all people...
09:56<Timwi>Hardly :-p
09:56<@Belugas>yes, Mihamiz is that guy. he has a busy real life, right now. But he does take care of the project
09:56<Timwi>More like 70% of the people who live in Germany
09:56<@Belugas>so, if no answer, it may be because german transaltors do not care to answer or modify
09:56<Timwi>I figurd
09:56<Timwi>I figured, even :)
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09:56<ln->what is MiHaMiX's real name?
09:56<Timwi>ln-: Miham Kerekes
09:56<ln->i doubt that.
09:57<Timwi>Why?
09:57<@Belugas>yeah,,, Attila must be added :)
09:57<Timwi>It could be fake, but if it is, then it is clearly made to sound real
09:58<ln->yeah, what's this Ban Attila thing then?
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>his middle name?
09:58<ln->e.g. in this one: http://lists.bibl.u-szeged.hu/pipermail/libinfo/2006-May.txt.gz
09:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10612 /branches/noai/src/ (37 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: allow a class as return value; pack the result in a SQ instance and it should work perfectly
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09:59<ln->or is it some marriage thing?
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10:01<@Belugas>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/MiHaMiX
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10:04<ln->does he have many names like Gandalf/Mithrandir?
10:05<Timwi>I only have one name, Timwi :-p
10:05<Sacro>heh, Mithrandir
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a translation of some sort
10:07<Sacro>yes it is
10:08<Timwi>From what to what though?
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>i did not mean the Mithrandir thing, i know that is a translation :)
10:08<Timwi>From Hungarian to Magyarul? :-;
10:08<Timwi>:-p
10:08<ln->someone said that in hungary (also) the first name of the man changes in marriage, or something. does this have something to do with that?
10:08<Timwi>ln-: In Hungary, the first name is the family name
10:09<Timwi>or differently put, the family name comes first, before the personal name
10:09<Timwi>... I think. :-p
10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10613 /branches/noai/src/ (36 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add r10612: give release-hook for return values of classes for which SQ creates a temporary holder so they are free'd when SQ does
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>like the bajorans :p
10:09<Timwi>Or indeed the Chinese.
10:10<Timwi>Star Trek is being unrealistic by having a whole planet follow the same convention and Earth being the only one that has a mix :-p
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10:12<ln->Things like that get standardized when USA takes control of the world before joining the Starfleet.
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10:13<Timwi>:)
10:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10614 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r10613: do not commit things you are working on and don't want to commit ;)
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10:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10615 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r10613: one might wonder how hard it can be to fix something this simple...
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10:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10616 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk: [NoAI] -Fix: only see a method as constructors if they do not have an other function name
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10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10617 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: code style changes (removing an erroneous tab plus switch case alignment)
10:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: give enum values to widgets
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11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10618 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix(r10167): remove unneeded comment
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11:12<Desolator>ahhh god
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11:32<alex_>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q276304/ # LOL WTF
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12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10619 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use shorter variable/member names and add some code separation.
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use a stringID variable instead of always refering to the _fund_gui.text[foo] member
12:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Documentation: Add a few explanatory comments here and there
12:08<Chicago_R_A>only "here and there" Belugas? Not everywhere? :)
12:11<@Belugas>:)
12:11<@Belugas>comment the whole code!!
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12:12<Progman>if I write a patch which do nothing but add documents for doxygen, are these welcome and how should I write these patches?
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12:14<Wolf01>hello
12:14<@Belugas>Progman, edit the code source, create a diff file (with TortoiseSVN, SVN or else) and present it on FS
12:14<@Belugas>but make sure the comment is really helpfull
12:15<Chicago_R_A>Not <Insert Comment Here> ?
12:15<Chicago_R_A>:)
12:15<@Belugas>and that it describe exactly what it's supposed to do
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12:15<@Belugas>do not simply guess the functionnality based on the name of the function/structure or whatever
12:17<@Belugas>and yes, such well done work is welcome :)
12:18<Progman>i'm worried about breaking all developing stuff by adding new comments as these will desync with the trunk and other patches cannot applied anymore
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12:21<Progman>what is "FS"?
12:21<+glx>bugs.openttd.org
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12:24<@peter1138>raa
12:24<Wolf01>eek
12:24<Ailure>mew
12:27<Chicago_R_A>raa?
12:27<@Belugas>Progman, i think that both devs and patch creators do know how to deal with conflicts :)
12:28<@Belugas>i keep on self-inflicting tons of conflicts to my onw repos, so don't worry too much about that ;)
12:29<Noldo>and svn is quite good with merging changes done to different parts of a file
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12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r10620 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt estonian.txt galician.txt slovak.txt):
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-18 19:37:17
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 10 fixed, 13 changed by Hadez (23)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 20 changed by kristjans (20)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: galician - 34 fixed, 5 changed by Condex (39)
12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovak - 4 fixed by lengyel (4)
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12:47<dihedral>hello there
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13:13<Timwi>Hi
13:13<Timwi>Is it just me, or does the key "D" for dyanamite/demolish no longer work in the newest SVN?
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13:14<Progman>you must press "s" before to let the build-bar be opened
13:14<Timwi>"s" does signals...
13:14<Progman>and the landscape-toolbar must be present too
13:15<Timwi>Oh, you meant L :)
13:15<Progman>eeeuh, "a"
13:15<Timwi>"A" does auto-rail :)
13:15<Progman>indeed, and it open the rail-toolbar
13:15<Timwi>Anyway, thanks, it's the landscape thingie that I needed
13:15<Progman>and, by a patch setting, it opens the lanscape-toolbar too
13:15<Timwi>Yeah, I guess I had that set before
13:15<Timwi>So I got used to it
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13:21<Nickman>is it normal there arn't any project files in the NoAI branch?
13:24<Nickman>nevermind
13:24<Nickman>I was in the wrong map...
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13:34<@peter1138>map?
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14:17<Chicago_R_A2>...back...again
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15:02<Tlustoch>how do I get last item from the list (C++ list) ?
15:04<Rubidium>http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/List.html
15:04<ln->*(yourlist.end());
15:04<Rubidium>that might bite when the list is empty
15:05<Rubidium>yourlist.back() should work too
15:05|-|Ben_ changed nick to _Ben_
15:09<Sacro__>make[1]: warning: Clock skew detected. Your build may be incomplete.
15:09<Sacro__> D:
15:09<Rubidium>the danger of running ntp
15:09<Sacro__>i'm not running ntp
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15:11<Rubidium>are you sure?
15:11<Tlustoch>And how do I update item? Or is it better to remove & insert (last item)?
15:11<Rubidium>yourlist.back() = 10; ?
15:11<Sacro__>Rubidium: quite sure
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15:12<Sacro>i only installed it about 30 mins ago
15:12<Sacro>and i haven't got round to doing it yet
15:12<Rubidium>chances are it runs directly after the install
15:13<ln->what OS/distro is that?
15:13<Rubidium>Sacro: has ArchLinux IIRC
15:13<Sacro>indeed he does
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15:15<Tlustoch>Oh, thank you.
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15:19<Sacro>there... my new server has openttd, and openttd-svn on
15:26<Tlustoch>Heh. I have Segmentation fault error after printf command. Now what shall I do?
15:27<Rubidium>not use the pointer you are using after that printf?
15:27<Rubidium>run it in gdb?
15:28<Tlustoch>I have 2 printf command one after another but after the first one the game immediately crashes.
15:28<Tlustoch>It never happened before.
15:29<Rubidium>Tlustoch: you are printing something you should not be printing
15:29<Rubidium>but I can't see what it is as I don't know any of the context
15:29<Tlustoch>I print only integers and constant string
15:30<Rubidium>maybe you've miscounted somewhere and you try to print a int as string
15:30<Tlustoch>That's not possible. There must be some other mistake.
15:31<Tlustoch>What about list? Do you need to initialize it?
15:31<Rubidium>depends on the situation IIRC
15:34[~]Timwi returns
15:34<Timwi>Hi
15:35<Timwi>Can someone make a change to an item in FlySpray for me?
15:35<Timwi>I filed http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1049 as a "Bug Report" but I think it should be "patch".
15:36<Timwi>Also, can someone explain to me how to replace a vehicle? The button doesn't seem to do anything ... is it not implemented yte?
15:36<Timwi>yet
15:37<+glx>Timwi: please use better names for your files (at least give them an extension)
15:38<blathijs>Timwi: done
15:39<Sacro>grr :( can't get webmin to work
15:40<Timwi>glx: Sorry, what would you like me to call this?
15:40<Timwi>blathijs: Thanks
15:40<+glx>xxx.diff or xxx.patch
15:40<Timwi>OK. Is there a way to rename the attachment?
15:41<Tlustoch>How do I pass list to function? (list<some struct> mylist)
15:42<Eddi|zuHause><Timwi> Also, can someone explain to me how to replace a vehicle? The button doesn't seem to do anything ... is it not implemented yet? <- you have to set up replacement rules (from the vehicle list window | manage list | autoreplace)
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>the "upgrade" button in the depot then applies all replacement rules on all vehicles currently in the depot
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause>also the replacement rules are automatically applied to any vehicle entering a depot
15:44<Rubidium>Tlustoch: as a pointer (or reference, whatever you like most)
15:44<Tlustoch>Please can you write the code?
15:45<Rubidium>you've got no idea what pointers and/or references are?
15:45<Timwi>Thanks Eddi|zuHause
15:45<Tlustoch>I know, but I never passed list<something>
15:45<Rubidium>list<something> is just a type, like int
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15:50<Tlustoch>Thanks. Solved with typedef.
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>why would that need a typedef?
15:51<Tlustoch>You need same type for variable definition and in function definition, or not?
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>and why would it not suffice both being (e.g.) list<int>?
15:55<Tlustoch>hmm that one too
15:57<Timwi>Is there an easy way to find remaining pieces of non-electrified rail in my map?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately no
15:57<+glx>yes electric trains are blocked
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>drag&drop the "upgrade" tool over the entire map :p
15:58<+glx>at least 10 times
15:58<+glx>to be sure
15:58<+glx>;)
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>but really, the smallmap should have a colour for each railtype
15:59<Timwi>I did that, and it's still telling me that it can't convert everything because there are trains in the wya
15:59<Timwi>Hm, I get only one color for "rail"
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>that was a suggestion :)
16:00<+glx><Timwi> I did that, and it's still telling me that it can't convert everything because there are trains in the wya <-- that's why I said "at least 10 times"
16:00<Timwi>I did it about 10 times now :)
16:00<Timwi>In fact, probably more
16:00<+glx>but if your trains are still waiting in stations you need to wait for them to leave
16:01<Timwi>Could it be that it will always say "train is in the way" if everything is actually converted?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>there was a patch somewhere that allowed converting even if trains are in the way
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>but i think it left out some cases like stations and bridges
16:03<Sacro>Mon Jul 2 05:23:56 BST 2007
16:03<Sacro>hmm
16:03<Sacro>that might be an issue
16:03<Timwi>Argh...
16:03<Timwi>I keep finding places where the cargo type is singular when it should be plural ...
16:03<Timwi>Is this due to a recent sweeping change?
16:04<+glx>probably caused by r10606
16:04<+glx>as it swaped name and name_plural
16:06<Timwi>Argh
16:06<Timwi>That means they need to be changed everywhere
16:07<Timwi>Maybe r10606 was wrong? :)
16:07<+glx>no r10606 is right
16:07<Timwi>OK, does anyone know the code well enough to quickly fix the "accepts: passenger" message on stations?
16:07<Timwi>Should be "passengers", of course :)
16:07<+glx>but r8826 was wrong
16:08<Timwi>Remind me where I can see the diffs for the changes on the web?
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16:10<+glx>r10606 fixes the singular/plural inversion but r8826 used the correct ones, that are now incorrect
16:10<Timwi>Ah, git.openttd.org
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16:15<Timwi>OK, I've fixed the issue
16:17<Timwi>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1055
16:18<+glx>put all your changes related to this in the same bug report
16:18<+glx>will be easier for us
16:18<Timwi>I don't appear to have any access to change anything on this system
16:18<Timwi>All I can do is create new bugs
16:18<Timwi>Once they're created, I can't edit them
16:18<+glx>you can add comments
16:19<Timwi>OK
16:19<Timwi>Do you want me to do this now for the three items I filed?
16:20<+glx>would be nice
16:25<Timwi>OK, then how do I close the existing item?
16:25<Timwi>items
16:26<Timwi>Unrelated question: What exactly does the "Transfer Credits:" mean in a helicopter's details window?
16:27<+glx>you can't close items but I can :)
16:31<Timwi>OK
16:32<Timwi>Is there a quick way to get a list of all vehicles that are waiting in depots?
16:32<+glx>I know the vehicle list (vehicles in depot have blue number)
16:34<Timwi>Thanks
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16:54<Timwi>glx: I tried to add a comment now but it didn't upload the file.
16:55<Timwi>Ah, works now. Maybe I did something wrong.
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16:57<Timwi>Done, the attachments are now all on http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1055
16:57<Timwi>You can close http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1049 and http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1054
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17:02<+glx>done
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17:02<Timwi>Thanks. Now commit the patches to svn? :))
17:04<+glx>peter1138 must look at it (r8826 and r10606 are his work ;) )
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17:07<Progman>if a method got an assert, how can I document it?
17:07<+glx>usually @pre
17:08<Timwi>Okie
17:08<+glx>unless the assert is not used to check params
17:08<Timwi>Bed now
17:08<Timwi>G'night
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17:08<Progman>and in the description itself?
17:09<+glx>check how it's done for other functions
17:10<Progman>do you know a function which is documented, use assert and is documented that there is an assert? ;)
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17:13<+glx>no
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17:14<Progman>I'm searching for a description that it can happend like "an assertion is thrown" or "an assert is called"
17:14<Rubidium>just look in the *_map.h files for @pre's
17:14<Rubidium>-'
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17:14<Nickman>hi all
17:15<Nickman>anyone familliar with the NoAI branch here?
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17:15<+glx>a little
17:15<+glx>what do you want to know?
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17:15<Phazorx>are there known issues with YAPF and trams?
17:16<Rubidium>depends what you think is an issue
17:16<Phazorx>i have a tram that seems to can not get to a stations
17:16<Phazorx>it just circling some block
17:17<Phazorx>which has 4 tram stations, one next to each corner
17:17<Phazorx>trains from 3 get to drop fine
17:17<Phazorx>train from one of them seems to loop
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17:17<+glx>is it heading to this station?
17:17<Rubidium>show us a picture
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17:18<Phazorx>i have somewhat mirrored design and same behavior observed in few cases
17:18<Phazorx>ughm... it's messy
17:18<Phazorx>but i'll try
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17:19<JazzyJaffa>Hi, I'm just cleaning up my fast pathfinding for ships. I need to store a region number for every tile, I've managed to get it down to using 12bits in TileExtended, is this considered acceptable? (Support for a tile to be in more than one region is included in the 12bits)
17:20<Nickman>glx I want to make a C++ AI but don'tk now wich files I have to include to get it to work, I read the Wiki, but it doesn't give me enuf information
17:20<+glx>check src\ai\NoAI\NoAI.*
17:20<Rubidium>have you looked at the C++ stuf AI?
17:20<Rubidium>*stub
17:21<Nickman>not yet
17:21<Nickman>I'll take a look at those
17:21<Nickman>the NoAI.hpp file is all I need I think ;)
17:21<Nickman>I'll give it a go
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17:25<Phazorx>http://img.cx/e/3379632875/PICCYSNAP.COM_284_c.png
17:26<Phazorx>train goes A->B->C->D
17:26<Phazorx>teoretically it can go from C, D or intersection between C and D to S
17:26<Phazorx>as other trains do
17:27<Phazorx>trains from stations 331,333 and 334 find their way to S
17:27<Phazorx>err trams
17:27<Rubidium>S = East Terminal?
17:27<Phazorx>yes
17:28<Phazorx>they station sign itself is next to top left corner of picture (middle of RR station there)
17:29<Rubidium>and that tream only circles A->B->C->D when it should do A->S ?
17:29<Phazorx>well ABCS
17:29<Phazorx>or AB(C<>D)S
17:29<Phazorx>or ABDS
17:29<Phazorx>but it goes between C and D and then turns west
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17:30<Rubidium>huh? now I don't get it anymore
17:30<Phazorx>judging by absent rating - it's been a long while since it made it station last time
17:30<Phazorx>Rubidium: it's a loop there
17:31<Phazorx>train goes counterclockwise
17:31<Phazorx>so normal, route can be a-b-c-s-d-b
17:32<Rubidium>not that last b (I hope)
17:32<Phazorx>errr
17:32<Phazorx>A-B-C-S-D-A
17:32<Phazorx>train from station 331
17:32<Phazorx>is going clockwise
17:33<Phazorx>so it goes B-A-D-S-C-B
17:33<Phazorx>train from 334 goes smallest route possibvle - D-S, clockwise
17:34<Phazorx>actulay all of them go clockwise aside of one that never get's there
17:35<Phazorx>this is network game r10532
17:35<Rubidium>it's probably better to have the savegame
17:35<Phazorx>you can observe it live if you want
17:36<Rubidium>takes too much time
17:36<Rubidium>cloning my checkout, downgrading and recompiling and all
17:38<Phazorx>well i tried it with 10559 a while ago - trains start crashing
17:38<Phazorx>not sure about tram issue tho
17:38<Phazorx>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/bug.sav
17:38<Phazorx>save scrolled to right neighbourhood
17:39<Phazorx>i can provide link to GRFs, whoch are cooper pack 5
17:40<Progman>http://nopaste.php-quake.net/1781 - any suggestions about the style of the docs? (and are they right?)
17:41<Phazorx>@author for function and @date ?
17:41<@DorpsGek>Phazorx: Error: 'for' is not a valid plugin.
17:42<Nickman>my AI is working now, THX! ;)
17:43<Progman>@author in a svn-repos? this will result in checking all revisions of a file ;)
17:43<@DorpsGek>Progman: Error: 'in' is not a valid plugin.
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17:44<Progman>weird error message, but I'll find it
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17:46<Progman>where do you get this errormessage?
17:47<Phazorx>hit for Progman: it's a bot
17:47<Phazorx>hint
17:48<Rubidium>Progman: @author and @date are useless and unnecessary as we've got subversion
17:48<Phazorx>i take my comment back
17:48<Rubidium>those tags get out of date so fast
17:48<Phazorx>Rubidium: can you same thing with the tram on your revision?
17:48<Progman>DorpsGek: where do you get this error message?
17:49<Rubidium>Phazorx: looks like the tram is heading for some place within the "circle"
17:49<Phazorx>Rubidium: there are no "hooks" inside the loop
17:49<Rubidium>most likely because that was where the station once used to be
17:49<Phazorx>and other trains seems to find they way using same tracks
17:49<Rubidium>Phazorx: just skip orders once and it'll run ok
17:50<Rubidium>so it must be something that happened a long long time ago
17:50<Phazorx>trying that
17:50<Phazorx>long long time ago
17:50<Rubidium>and as I said, there "terminal" station was once within (or on) the circle
17:50<Phazorx>like 40 years i turned yapf on
17:50<Rubidium>Phazorx: it has NOTHING to do with YAPF
17:51<Phazorx>well before i did so - all trains were getting there, i had none with negative income
17:51<Rubidium>once it got the order it searched for a station tile it could reach nearby, but before it could be reached that station tile was made unreachable
17:52<Phazorx>i did played with shape of "receptor" tho
17:52<Phazorx>akipping worked
17:52<Phazorx>thanks
17:54<Progman>the doc-patch should be uploaded in FS?
17:56<Phazorx>Rubidium: if you are still tunning it please take a lok at other negatove income trains
17:56<Phazorx>305 404 405 407
17:56<Phazorx>similar issue different part of city
17:56<Phazorx>and skipping so far only worked for 407
17:57<Rubidium>oh, and the GRFs you are using interfere with eachother
17:57<Phazorx>LV4 and hiroshimas?
17:57<Rubidium>no idea, guess town replacement and newbridges (if you use them)
17:57<Rubidium>dbg: [sprite] Tried to load real sprite #4627 as a non sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
17:58<Phazorx>well lv3 and hiroshimas has issues with some vehicles
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17:59<Phazorx>thgergo bridges are static as well as other stuff
18:00<Rubidium>Phazorx: they both replace the same sprite (probably from toyland) and use that
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18:00<Phazorx>if it is a vehicle related (dunno how to check) most likely it is LV4 and hirotrams
18:01<Rubidium>it is not vehicle related, it is SPRITE related
18:01<Phazorx>that is visible from available road vehicles
18:01<Rubidium>they both use the SAME sprite
18:01<Phazorx>hmm...
18:01<Rubidium>problem is that one GRF reads it as a "normal" sprite, whereas the other reads it as some sort of "magic" sprite
18:02<Phazorx>in that case i dont know... and i'm not sure if i can find out where to look for that issue representing itself somehow
18:02<Phazorx>minor concern tho
18:02<Phazorx>i stil lcan not get 404 to find terminal
18:02<Rubidium>it (could) make GRFs do weird things
18:02<Phazorx>\kinda correlates with http codes heh
18:03<Phazorx>i'll disable LV4 and turn on debug mode i guess
18:03<Rubidium>skipping 305 worked for me too
18:04<Phazorx>305 here goes station 327 - 326 - 325
18:05<Phazorx>407 right in front of it doing same thing
18:05<Phazorx>and 404 is traling 305 buy one side of a block
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18:09<Phazorx>nope skipping doesnt help i tried both skip and dbl skip on all 4
18:09<Phazorx>they do go back to origin station if skipped but can not find a way to terminal after that
18:09<Rubidium>and they go right with NPF?
18:10<Phazorx>used to lemme try
18:11<Phazorx>i got same debug mesage about sprite on client
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18:12<Phazorx>grr
18:12<Phazorx>patch "yapf.road_use_yapf 0"
18:12<Phazorx>'yapf.road_use_yapf 0' is an unknown patch setting.
18:12<Phazorx>patch "yapf.road_use_yapf"
18:12<Phazorx>Current value for 'yapf.road_use_yapf' is: 'on' (min: 0, max: 1)
18:16<+glx>and without quotes?
18:16<Phazorx>what am i doing wring here?
18:17<Phazorx>worked heh
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18:17<Rubidium>Current value for 'Rubidium' is: 'off' (min: 8 hours, max: ∞) ;)
18:18<Phazorx>Rubidium: all find their way as soon as turned yapf off :|
18:18<Rubidium>slap KUDr about it ;)
18:18<Rubidium>or praise blathijs...
18:18<Phazorx>is it different kind if problem than 308 was ?
18:19<Phazorx>well we are quite in diff TZs... i'll nag KUDr i guess
18:19<Rubidium>can't be that much ;)
18:20<Phazorx>thing i did not liek about npf - all trains stockpile at some station rather than load balance
18:20<Phazorx>Rubidium: it's 19:23 here
18:20<Rubidium>so, that's eastern US/Canada
18:20<@Belugas>same here :D
18:20<Phazorx>i shall bu Belugas then :)
18:20<Phazorx>more convinient
18:20<Rubidium>not as much as TheJosh
18:21<Rubidium>who has 9.5 hours differnce with me
18:21<Phazorx>heh what about him ?
18:21<Rubidium>@calc 24 - 9.5 - 6
18:21<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 8.5
18:21<Rubidium>and that amount of hours with you
18:21<@Belugas>bu?
18:21<Phazorx>bug
18:21<@Belugas>j'ai bu, tu as bu
18:21<@Belugas>i hate bugs
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18:22<@Belugas>anyway, as i mentionned more than once, until newindustries are done...
18:22<Rubidium>bugging Belugas about YAPF
18:22<@Belugas>the hell if i can do anything with/for YAPF!
18:22<@Belugas>it is really well done, but it is a big chunk to learn
18:23<Phazorx>heh at least you would know who to ask
18:23<Rubidium>... something you can't describe with LOL and ROFL ;) ...
18:23<Rubidium>not that Belugas can't fix bugs in it, but it requires quite some time
18:23<Phazorx>i understand that familiarity with the code makes it way much easier to spot things
18:24<Phazorx>as well as way much harder to spot very well hidden things
18:24<Phazorx>NPF also pegs my CPU :(
18:26<Phazorx>and i shall bug peter about bridges/tunnels issue :)
18:26<Phazorx>that one get's quite annoying
18:28<@Belugas>thanks for your confidence in my capabilities, Rubidium :) really!
18:29<Phazorx>btw... who is behind math on how's length/speed/traveldistance works?
18:30<Phazorx>i have some quiestioned about diagonal vs straight tracks
18:30<Phazorx>cuz it does look weird in some cases
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18:41<@Belugas>don't know who would be the right person to ask, Phazorx
18:42<@Belugas>i doubt the one who wrote that is still among active devs
18:42<Phazorx>perhaps it is inherited from Chriss as is ?
18:43<Phazorx>what i have issues with - it takes different time faor a train to travel as long as it is depending if it goes straight or diagonal
18:43<Phazorx>which is very meesed up IMO
18:44<Phazorx>especially seeng that it travels in both cases with same speed
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18:47<@Belugas>i have no clue whatsoever
18:47<@Belugas>maybe because there is more tiles crossed in diago then straight?
18:48<Phazorx>well at the end - both trains traveled exactly same length as seen by length of trains
18:48<Phazorx>but it looks like a pair of diagonals is iso'ed sqrt(2)
18:49<Phazorx>so depending if it is length or distance - tile have different size
18:49<Phazorx>or train has variable length
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18:49<Phazorx>which is more likely - and hence reason for slowdown when tracks change to diagonal from straight on packed line
18:50<Phazorx>either way it is not right
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19:35<@Belugas>Phazorx, i doubt there is much bogus code over there. It has been accepted and verified since eons.
19:35<Phazorx>well i suggest you do a test
19:36<@Belugas>no
19:36<Phazorx>i can cap a video but it'll take more time
19:36<@Belugas>you provide the data
19:36<Phazorx>i can do a save game. sure
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19:43<De_Ghost>yea i think diagonal makes train longer
19:43<De_Ghost>cuz when i put 2 train really close toget on a stright track and they tunr
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19:43<De_Ghost>they crahes
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19:54<Phazorx>how do i cheat... i run out of money...
19:54<Phazorx>there was something but i dont recall...
19:54<+glx>cheat menu
19:54<+glx>ctrl-alt-c
19:54<+glx>+win if the previous one fails
19:55<Phazorx>heh i have disabled win and ctrl+alt+c have global shell binding
19:55<Phazorx>is there console command?
19:55<+glx>no
19:56<Phazorx>hmm..
19:56<Phazorx>any other way ?
19:57<+glx>edit the source to change the shortcut
19:58<Phazorx>i just killed the shell
19:58<Phazorx>easier
19:58<Phazorx>nicve menu i must say :)
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20:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10621 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
20:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: install a struct holding the user's selection from _fund_gui.
20:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: merge WE_TIMEOUT and WE_ABORT_PLACE_OBJ, as they both do the same thing.
20:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: Any time you place an industry, even if it fails, the button will reset and the cursor will return to normal.
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20:39<Phazorx>Belugas: still interesed in the save ?
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20:42<Phazorx>Belugas: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/diagonal length testcase.sav
20:42<Phazorx>err
20:42<Phazorx>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/diagonal%20length%20testcase.sav
20:43<Phazorx>more "compatible"
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10622 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h):
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: Introduction of the CBID_INDUSTRY_AVAILABLE's handling, in fund industry window.
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: In order to stay as much consistent with the specs, the fund window will perform
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: (if required) the callback every game-day. TTDPatch performs the same call
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: every second, but after discussions with Csaboka, we agreed that it was not
20:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: required to be that intensive. So a game-day is plenty enough.
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20:55<@Belugas>Phazorx, i will save it, but i willnot look at it until...
20:55<@Belugas>well...
20:55<@Belugas>you know ;)
20:55<Phazorx>i really suggest looking at it
20:55<Phazorx>5 minutes of your time and some lack of sleep guaranteed :)
21:06<@Belugas>you just said the thing i was looking for, but did not remember what it was!
21:06<@Belugas>Sleep :D
21:06<@Belugas>and no, i wil not derogate from my line of conduct.
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21:06<@Belugas>nothing until newindustries completion
21:06<Phazorx>heh
21:06<@Belugas>until then, good night :)
21:07<Phazorx>i hope someone will look into that tho
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 19 00:00:51 2007