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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-26

---Logopened Thu Jul 26 00:00:40 2007
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02:51<simon444>In Soviet Russia, This Channel Is Alive
02:53<simon444>IRL, This Channel Is Dead
02:58<simon444>So, I am canceling my subscription to IRC.
03:02<guru3>Been a while since I heard a soviet russia joke.
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03:30<simon444>guru3, where were you 20 hours ago?
03:30<simon444>they were going like crazy
03:30<simon444><Timwi> In Soviet Russia, no spoon is THERE. :)
03:30<simon444><Timwi> But in Soviet Russian, forever go on JOKES!
03:31<guru3>i must admit, this isn't the place where i usually here soviet russia jokes
03:32<Eddi|zuHause3>and i must admit it is not funny after the 58th time...
03:33<simon444>In Soviet Russia, Jokes are Always Funny.
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03:34<Eddi|zuHause3>i rest my case...
03:34<simon444>In Soviet Russia, Cases Rest YOU!
03:35<simon444>stop feeding me
03:35<guru3>he's like a troll
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03:35<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, and it is not friday :p
03:35<guru3>thursday -_-
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04:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10693 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: --enable-install should have been removed from the configure parameters to save a long time ago. Now it is only causing warnings.
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04:18<Rubidium>skidd13: was just reading the video driver source code and found out that we already have a variable with "real time" ticks: _realtime_tick
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04:19<skidd13>I must have read over it. Where is it defined?
04:20<Rubidium>one of our lovely "oh I dump my crap here" files: variable.h
04:22<skidd13>Hmm so I step back to the previous version and modify this one
04:22<Rubidium>yes, but what do you mean with modifying that one?
04:23<skidd13>I've a local VCS and step back to the previous rev and replace the hardcoded stuff with the _realtime_tick
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04:26<Rubidium>jup, a local VCS is very useful when developing
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04:32<skidd13>Rubidium: What about the icons? Is the processor icon OK?
04:33<Rubidium>I've not looked at the thing itself yet, only at the diff
04:34<skidd13>Ah someone should check it, if they are ok.
04:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10694 /trunk/src/network/ (network_gamelist.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Codechange: update the server information in the game list every once in a while so the information stays fairly up-to-date when you are looking through the servers.
04:57<skidd13>Rubidium: I hope it's fine now.
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06:19<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10695 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1079]: building single pieces of road over tramtrack or vice versa on slopes did not work as expected.
06:37<Gekko>"as expected" meaning?
06:37<Gekko>Rubidium: ^
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07:14<Smoky555>RSS channel - - did somebody need this?
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08:18<simon444>yay! the coca-cola truck is outside my home
08:19<TheMask96>better then inside, I agree :)
08:22<simon444>80 bottles or 4 boxes are now in my lounge
08:24<hylje>oh, wut
08:25<Rubidium>so, that's for one day?
08:25<SpComb>what kind of bottles?
08:26<Rubidium>those 5 gallon ones
08:28<Rubidium> <- those ones
08:31<Smoovious>hooks up the syrup as an IV drip to his arm
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08:44<skidd13>The var RoadBits are 4 bit?
08:46<Rubidium>a variable of type RoadBits has an undefined size (usually 32 or 64 bits though)
08:46<Rubidium>but only the lowest 4 bits are used
08:47<skidd13>If I shift the first bit the Road should cycle round
08:49<+glx>izhirahider: <-- ottd austrian townname generator converted into action F (it does exactly the same)
08:51<Rubidium>skidd13: only if the first bit is the only set bit
08:52<skidd13>Rubidium: obvious
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08:58<UnderBuilder>good news: trams returned to my country's capital, Buenos Aires (yes off-topic, I know)
08:58<@peter1138>better news: 2½ hours left to go
08:59<@peter1138>well it's not my fault you're in the wrong timezone
08:59<hylje>yay, trams!
08:59<Smoovious>and it isn't off-topic for here :D
08:59<@Belugas>so true peter1138
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09:04<skidd13>Even better news: Still 2 weeks holiday :)
09:05<@Belugas>mine start tomorrow evening
09:06<UnderBuilder>the new trams are built at the side of the roads instead of going through them, is that a tendency in modern cities or the in-roads trams are still common there?
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09:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10696 /trunk/src/ (15 files): -Codechange: remove duplication of the "make sprite transparent" code.
09:07<@peter1138>i think they prefer them off road as it means congestion doesn't affect the trams to much
09:08<Eddi|zuHause3>here they rebuilt a lot of roads that had trams on them to trams in the middle and car lanes next to them
09:09<Eddi|zuHause3>usually reducing the car lanes per direction from 2 to 1
09:10<+glx>same here
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09:11<Eddi|zuHause3>when most trams were built (high time was around 1920), car traffic was not an issue
09:12<Eddi|zuHause3>now it is, so they adapted the style
09:12<simon444>I hate cars
09:13<simon444>I have a friend who has moved to Israel for new transport methods
09:13<skidd13>RoadBits r = 0100; (GB(r, 2, 2) >> 2) == 0001 ?
09:13<simon444>*to develop
09:14<Eddi|zuHause3>skidd13: no, GB(r,2,2) is already 01, so >> 2 will erase those bits
09:15<Eddi|zuHause3>GB is not only an & mask, it also shifts
09:16<skidd13>(GB(r, 2, 2) == 0001 ?
09:16<simon444>I have seen his computerized electro private vehicle and I must say I am impressed
09:16<simon444>the vehicle is very cheap
09:17<simon444>the cost of the special roads are only 70% more than current costs
09:17<simon444>I think we might see this type of transport being adopted by developing countries
09:17<Eddi|zuHause3>"only 70%"... what propaganda sheet is that from?
09:18<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, that is not including power
09:18<skidd13>Hmm strange ((RoadBits)GB(r, 2, 2) | (RoadBits)(GB(r, 0, 2) << 2)) should mirror the road bits but it does not.
09:19<Eddi|zuHause3>skidd13: the copy-paste patch had some stuff about mirroring in, maybe look there
09:20<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, his research is not public. It is being carried out by a research facility in Israel.
09:20<Smoovious>"only 70% more" here would spark riots in the open community meetings with the planners
09:20<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly, Smoovious ;)
09:21<Smoovious>like... that's only almost twice as much... doesn't sound like a lot at all, put it that way
09:21<simon444>Smoovious, the cost of cars being a lot less (few hundred dollar). Less power required. Faster transport. Allowing Kids to drive. And much more is good tradeoff
09:21<Eddi|zuHause3>and especially in developing countries, where often road infrastructure means a dirty path through the jungle, how can you expect them to pay twice for a special road when they do not even have money for normal roads?
09:22<Smoovious>allowing kids to drive... that would doom it to failure right there here
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09:22<simon444>Overall for developing counties it is a lot cheaper than the current system
09:22<simon444>Smoovious, the computerized roads are doing the driving
09:22<simon444>I forgot to mention: No need for public transport
09:23<hylje>public transport without the public
09:23<Eddi|zuHause3>the current system being importing 20 year old cars from "developed" countries for 50€?
09:23<Smoovious>simon444... doesn't matter whos doing the driving... kids gotta earn their freedoms
09:23<simon444>Over here in Australia 3/4 of road tax revenue is going for public transport
09:24<simon444>Smoovious, the system can be used by parents to automaticly take their kids to school
09:24<simon444>Smoovious, it can be locked down very well
09:24[~]Smoovious shakkes his head.
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09:25<Smoovious>just o ne m ore t hing that parents don't have t o acknowledge responsibility for.... pretty soon, they won't have to raise their kids at all, they'll just have a device d o i t
09:25<Smoovious>it isn't a positive thing
09:25<Eddi|zuHause3>you should learn control over your space key :)
09:26<Smoovious>technology is all fine and dandy, bu t not when it relieves people of t heir responsibilities
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09:26<simon444>Smoovious, in the old day in Europe kids from a young age would leave home and go to bigger cities by themselves for education if they could afford it
09:26<Smoovious>I'm still o n t hhe backup keybouncing stuck-kkey keyboard... it is actually worse than you see... you should see what I'm correcting
09:26<Smoovious>simon444... in the old days we could eat our young
09:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i'd rather not see :)
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09:27<Smoovious>doesn't mean its better
09:27<simon444>Smoovious, the cost of driving your kids to school and missing out on work during that time in developing countries is a lot more than the cost of the special roads required (I'd assume. I don't have any maths to back me up as I am not doing the research.)
09:28<Eddi|zuHause3>but everything you tell here has nothing to do with "developing" countries... they have totally different problems than investing millions in computerised roads
09:28<Smoovious>we all make sacrifices for our families...
09:28<Smoovious>if a parent has to spend an hour l ess at work and an hour m ore with the kids, that is a good thing
09:28<eekee>developing countries like to invest millions in hare-brained schemes. Is why they're still developing, methinks
09:29<Smoovious>eekee... well, that, and t hey keep destroying everything they develop
09:29<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, well maybe no Africa but other developing countries like Israel itself would be very happy with such technology
09:29<eekee>*shrug* ya Smoovious
09:30<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think israel classifies as a "developing" country in the classical sense of the word...
09:30<Smoovious>Israel have o ther priorities... like, stopping the bombing so they can keep their phone and data lines u p and nnot h ave to rebuild their h ouses so much
09:30<simon444>Smoovious, they aren't spending an hour extra with the kids. They are spending an hour extra on unsafe roads with crazy traffic that gives them a higher chance of getting killed.
09:30<+glx>traffic is not the dangerous part I think
09:30<Smoovious>Evolution in action
09:31<simon444>glx, I didn't use grammar correctly.
09:31<simon444>glx, I meant both points together gives them a danger
09:32<Smoovious>we need danger
09:32<eekee>I do have to wonder how expensive it would actually be. I mean, they had autopilot & stuff in the 2nd world war I think, maybe it needn't be expensive at all
09:32<Smoovious>we take away all danger, and t he g ene pool suffers
09:32<simon444>a road collapse has higher of happening with more traffic
09:33<simon444>eekee, well the main benefit is the cost of the vehicle is very little
09:33<eekee>we take away all danger & the gene pool has a change to produce something really interesting, IMHO. Look at dogs & cats, sheltered lives & look at the variety in them!
09:33<eekee>ah neat!
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09:35<simon444>I would love such a system for Australia
09:36<simon444>Overall the cost would be less for a country like Australia who 3/4 of road tax revenue goes to public transport. The complete cost would be reduced to 1/4+70%
09:37<simon444>and a way better system
09:38<simon444>. . .
09:41<eekee>What I would be afraid of with such a system is the liklyhood of it spreading to all forms of driving until you couldn't drive your own car. At 25 years old, the only real form of freedom I'd ever known was driving, alone, for pleasure. I had no opportunity for choices or was too inhibited to make them in all other areas of my life D:
09:42<simon444>eekee, well if all roads become these special roads you don't have to worry unless you take your on road car off road
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09:44<eekee>hmm I suppose, ya
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09:55<UnderBuilder>I have a nice mockup to do: a mix of Lemmings and (O)TTD(P)
09:56<UnderBuilder>this is the idea: you need to protect the trucks from the evil rail crossings
09:56<eekee>oo cute
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10:14<JazzyJaffa>Is there anywhere a quick overview of whats network safe code and whats not? I know the obvious stuff like no floating point, but wanted to be clear on any other caveats.
10:15<hylje>anything predictable
10:18<JazzyJaffa>If I do divison of two integers thats fine without needing to cast right?
10:19<JazzyJaffa>I'm only checking as I'm getting the occasional desync with the new ship pf
10:21<Rubidium>the caches are out of sync I guess
10:22<Rubidium>you must construct the caches in such a way that destroying the cache and rebuilding it gives exactly the same cache as when you wouldn't have had destroyed and rebuilt it.
10:22<JazzyJaffa>Yes, I've kept that in mind while coding it
10:23<Rubidium>well, most likely it is not the case
10:23<JazzyJaffa>The routes aren't cached yet, but the same rule applies to building the regions
10:23<JazzyJaffa>ah ha, just understood it
10:24<JazzyJaffa>I was making an untrue assumption about the saving of station data
10:25<JazzyJaffa>Thanks, funny how just explaining something to someone else shows flaws you don't think of on your own!
10:26<eekee>yeah, I've heard that the best way to really learn somehting is to teach it
10:26<JazzyJaffa>A guy who was teaching a course I went on told us to explain our code to a pot plant.
10:27<@Belugas>i tried that with my wife. She felt asleep
10:29<+glx>Belugas: lucky for you she's not here right now ;)
10:29<UnderBuilder>other obstacles for TTLems: UFOs
10:29<@Belugas>i very much doubt she will ever come in here :D
10:30<@Belugas>lucky for me !
10:30<JazzyJaffa>Mine tries to be interested, then you see her go blank.
10:31<UnderBuilder>damn I tried to convert a selection to grayscale in paint and it converted all the draw instead
10:31<UnderBuilder>damn paint
10:32<@Belugas>otoh, she learned html by herself a few months ago and started to do some pages. She had a few problems, asked me how i would fix those. She started to argue. I stopped helping her.
10:32<UnderBuilder>worst is that I can't undo
10:33<JazzyJaffa>I've learned the hard way that helping people with websites always ends in disaster
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10:34<@Belugas>yup. so once more, deving is a solitary job
10:34<@Belugas>no matter on waht you work
10:35<JazzyJaffa>desync solved I think (none so far any way)
10:37<Rubidium>desyncs are very annoying to test for :(
10:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10697 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: give a more sensible names to some of the unkX variables.
10:37<JazzyJaffa>I can imagine, I knew this one was my fault as it was when the regions updated on terraform
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10:38<JazzyJaffa>Is the svn head desync free? In other words can I assume they are my fault if they occur?
10:39<Rubidium>I haven't heard of desyncs the last few hundred revisions
10:40<JazzyJaffa>good stuff
10:40<JazzyJaffa>is the best way just to chuck out lots of debug and diff it?
10:41<Rubidium>generally yes
10:42<JazzyJaffa>well the best way is to code thinking "is this derived from saved information"
10:42<Rubidium>but for example (most) YAPF desyncs were found and fixed by running a cached YAPF and a uncached YAPF for each YAPF call and then diffing the output
10:42<JazzyJaffa>i see, a local solution
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10:44<JazzyJaffa>well thanks for the pointers, back to testing
10:49<UnderBuilder>"If you can't win against the enemy, join him" - the best way to compete against sabotagers in OTTD?
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10:52<Eddi|zuHause3>*mental note* do not get involved with physical work at these temperatures
10:52<Rubidium>but... it's only 20 degrees Celcius (if not less)
10:52<+glx>and very windy
10:53<JazzyJaffa>We're flooded, keeps your feet cool
10:54<Eddi|zuHause3>it's definitely above 20°C her
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10:55<Eddi|zuHause3>processor says 54°C, but that hardly counts :p
10:56<Eddi|zuHause3>thermometer says 26.7°C, and 40% humidity
10:56<+glx>CPU says 35°C here
10:56<Eddi|zuHause3>well, mine is busy :)
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10:57<+glx>it was 50°C when compiling latest commit :)
10:58<Digitalfox_Desktop>Well the strange thing is that Portugal is a turistic country with lots of beaches and summer activities, theres a lot of people who live here and work just for tourists.. But now when there should be 30-40 ºC.. Theres 20-30 and lot's of wind and clouds.. This summer is ruined... :(
10:58<+glx>cpu fan speed returns under 3000 rpm easily so it's not too hot
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10:59<Digitalfox_Desktop>On the other hand Uk is swimming and east europe is burning :(
10:59<Rubidium>my CPU is 55 degrees during compiles, but what do you want when it is passively cooled
11:00<Wezz6400>55 isn't that bad
11:00<Digitalfox_Desktop>The weather is all fu*k up.. :(
11:01<@Belugas>summer in Quebec is absolutely marvelous. Sorry to hear it is not the case in Europ
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11:01<@Belugas>and my system is too hold to have a cpu thermometer
11:01<+glx>you didn't see the news about GB weather ?
11:01<Digitalfox_Desktop>Well the problem with CPU heating is the duration of it's life.. More heat means less life time..
11:01<Wezz6400>nobody making the stupid global warming comment? good
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11:02<Wezz6400>Digitalfox_Desktop yes, however 55 degrees is not that high that it's a serious concern
11:02<Wezz6400>besides, those thermometers are very unreliable
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11:02<Digitalfox_Desktop>Wezz6400: Well some weeks ago i would.. But now i saw a documentary talking about weather changes and that the heating has other condicionals not just the global warming..
11:02<Wezz6400>The global warming swindle?
11:03<Eddi|zuHause3>i once had a cpu that ran on 70°C when idle...
11:03<+glx>passive cooling?
11:03<Eddi|zuHause3>no, active :)
11:04<Eddi|zuHause3>but it was probably undercooled
11:04<Wezz6400>some of the last p4 processors were just getting rediculously hot
11:05<Digitalfox_Desktop>Well a friend of mine brought to me yesterday his laptop.. CPU at 75ºC idle... Jesus all the platic was burning my fingers..:\
11:05<Eddi|zuHause3>it was an AMD 1400, i believe
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11:06<Eddi|zuHause3>'°', not 'º'
11:06<+glx>Digitalfox_Desktop: maybe remove the dust that is inside it
11:06<Wezz6400>ah yes the thunderbirds and especially the palominos got quite hot
11:06<Rubidium>Digitalfox_Desktop: a laptop with a CPU that is 75 degrees when idle is not what I call a laptop
11:07<Sacro>mine warms my testicles nicely
11:07<Digitalfox_Desktop>A lot of dust and the *hum what do you call it in english, the thing that you put between cpu and cooling system* was erased..
11:07<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i would keep my hands off such a laptop (and especially my lap)
11:07<Wezz6400>cooling paste?
11:07<Sacro>Digitalfox_Desktop: heatsink compound
11:07<Digitalfox_Desktop>Wezz6400: that's it
11:07<Sacro>it has many names
11:07<Wezz6400>that shouldn't be disappearing o.O
11:07<Sacro>glx: thermal paste
11:08<Digitalfox_Desktop>So i removed the dust and put thermal paste and the temperature got to 50 ºC iddle and 60 ºC at full work..
11:08<Digitalfox_Desktop>thermal paste does disapera if a lot of hot starts to get in CPU because of dust
11:08<Eddi|zuHause3>mine runs at about 35°C when idle
11:09<Wezz6400>well on a laptop the fan probable doesn't run as fast on idle as it does on full load
11:09<Digitalfox_Desktop>The problem is that the fans were always working at maximum so the noise was a lot..
11:10<Digitalfox_Desktop>And the heat of course :)
11:10<Digitalfox_Desktop>It was a Centrino 2.0
11:10<Wezz6400>heh yeah laptops are very noisy on full loads
11:11<Digitalfox_Desktop>I found on the net some stuff that you put beneath the laptop and has 2 fans and it helps keeping the laptop more cold :)
11:11<hylje>my lappy tends to get 80+ C when full load for longer times
11:11<Wezz6400>heh I kinda dislike laptops
11:11<hylje>proc, that is
11:12<Wezz6400>I have one because it's so easy to have your own pc with you, but all I do on it is working
11:12<Wezz6400>also I never use it at home, I always use my superior desktop there
11:12<hylje>laptops are good for what they are, for being portable
11:12<hylje>if a more luggable box is available, it's likely better
11:13<Wezz6400>just like wireless networks, the only upside is that it's wireless
11:14<hylje>the other upside is that it's more available where wires dont reach
11:14<hylje>gprs, edge, 3g
11:14<Wezz6400>yeah well
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11:14<Rubidium>I do not even own a desktop anymore
11:15<Smoovious>that and most people leave their wireless hubs unsecured, so ya don't have a lot of problems finding a spot to check yer main
11:15<Rubidium>I've got more than enough power in my laptop to do everything I want
11:15<Wezz6400>it's slow, it's unrealiable, if the connection is not optimal you have disconnects all over teh place, etc. etc.
11:15<Rubidium>and more than enough resolution too
11:15<hylje>i'm in the middle of nowhere
11:15<hylje>edge hasnt dropped for me for some hours
11:15<hylje>less so
11:15<Rubidium>Wezz6400: then you need a better wireless nic
11:16<Wezz6400>Rubidium well I'm comparing it to wired networks
11:16<Rubidium>I can leave my laptop turned on and go home and still have my ssh connection open
11:16<Wezz6400>there you have no disconnects, superior speed, etc. etc.
11:16<Rubidium>which includes a ride in the elevator
11:16<Rubidium>and a few minutes cycling
11:16<hylje>ssh isnt the first stateful connection to drop
11:17<Wezz6400>the timeout ranges for ssh and irc are quite long
11:17<hylje>irc wont resume as reliably
11:17<Rubidium>I just run irc on my server and that has a wired connection, so that won't bother me
11:18<SpComb>having irssi/screen open via ssh tends to cause irssi to freeze up when the ssh connection freezes
11:18<hylje>SpComb: screen can be configured to avoid that
11:18<SpComb>I think one needs to play around with sshd as well
11:19<hylje>not particularly
11:19<SpComb>display set to nonblocking mode, 1s timeout
11:19<Rubidium>SpComb: it doesn't freeze for me
11:19<SpComb>yet my irssi gets stuck, regardless
11:19<hylje>not for me either :o
11:19<Wezz6400>Rubidium I see you have quite good experience, and well wifi is usefull at times I agree, however using at it at home to connect stationary desktop machines to the internet is sado-masochism imho
11:20<hylje>stationary machines over wifi is silly
11:20<hylje>wifis point is that you dont need to use wires
11:20<Rubidium>yes, especially when you've got 100 Mbps internet in the wall ;)
11:20<Wezz6400>hylje thing is, loads of people are afraid to drill holes or thing cables look "ugly"
11:20<SpComb>wifi in the datacenter
11:20<hylje>cabls are ugly when you cant manage them
11:20<hylje>SpComb: golden
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11:21<Wezz6400>SpComb wifi in datacenters is used for people with laptops in there looking up why their server won't boot
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11:22<Rubidium>must tell that my wireless nic is exceptionally good
11:23<Wezz6400>I suspect that the network you use is also very good
11:23<Rubidium>know a lot of people that cannot even get a wireless connection when I've got a connection at maximum speed
11:23<Wezz6400>hehe I've had the same experience
11:23<Wezz6400>My classmate already had a laptop when I bought mine
11:23<Wezz6400>He was always having trouble with connecting to the schools wifi network
11:24<Wezz6400>He has an MSI laptop which is over 50% more expensive than mine
11:24<Rubidium>and always complain about the "stability" of the wireless there, but I've never ever had problems with it (except that time they were changing routers)
11:24<Wezz6400>However I had no trouble whatsoever connecting to the network, you should've seen his face :D
11:24<Wezz6400>me with my cheap acer machine getting connection when he couldn't \o/
11:25<Rubidium>another "problem" is that people keep complaining the letters on my laptop are "so small"
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11:26<Wezz6400>high reso on a small screen?
11:26<Rubidium>15 inch
11:26<Eddi|zuHause3>i won't give up my desktop because then i have nowhere to put my dvb-s card in :)
11:26<Wezz6400>that is quite high
11:26<Eddi|zuHause3>that must be rather expensive
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11:27<@Belugas>but i think it was a good investment for him :)
11:27<Rubidium>yup, 1100 euros two years back with Centrino
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11:28<Wezz6400>I gotta say though I just dislike laptop screens (the ones on the more expensive laptops are better, but they still are not nearly as good as a proper lcd monitor) and typing on them is annoying cause of the hight
11:29<Rubidium>problem is that I need the laptop for school, well... not actually for school work, but they've got old CRTs which equals in headaches in 5 minutes
11:30<@Belugas>i have two LCDs at work, and i by far prefre my CRT at home
11:30<Wezz6400>yeah I bought it for school too
11:30<Wezz6400>it's just a pain in the ass to have to install all the software you need over and over again
11:30<hylje>Wezz6400: my laptop lcd monitor begs to differ
11:31<hylje>Wezz6400: installing software? pain?
11:31<Rubidium>and I didn't see any point in spending yet more money on a desktop system with high resolution screen, low noise etc.
11:31<Wezz6400>when not using a laptop but having to use the schools computers
11:32<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
11:32<Wolf01>hello Belugas
11:33<Wezz6400>Heh well I already have a custom build heavily overclocked desktop system so the laptop really was just a secondary system to take to school and do office work and programming on
11:34|-|marc-andre [~marc-andr@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:35<Wezz6400>oh well dinner time ;)
11:35|-|Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: bbl]
11:36<Rubidium>quiting for dinner?
11:36<simon444>Wezz6400 IS A QUITTER!!!
11:36<Rubidium>just take your laptop to the kitchen while cooking and eating ;)
11:36<simon444>what a looooooooooooooooooooser
11:37[~]Smoovious coughs.
11:37<Wolf01>or bring the stuff to your pc ;)
11:38<simon444>or program your computer to make them for you
11:38|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:39<SpComb>or order from pizza hut
11:40<Wolf01>ok, let's talk about sex, sacro has been dropped :D
11:40<Rubidium>SpComb: then you still have to take the laptop to the door when you pay the pizza delivery person
11:40|-|simon444 changed nick to sacro
11:41<SpComb>fake sacro
11:41<sacro>none of that here
11:41<Rubidium>@kick sacro always wanted to do so
11:41|-|sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [always wanted to do so]
11:41<Eddi|zuHause3>i had a CRT at home until 2 months ago, when it broke... i liked it, it had good resolution, flat screen and high refresh rate
11:41|-|sacro [] has joined #openttd
11:42|-|sacro changed nick to simon444
11:42<simon444>piss off
11:43<hylje>noboy likes sacro
11:43|-|nimblex [nimblex@] has joined #openttd
11:43<simon444>@love nimblex
11:43|-|nimblex changed nick to Ionut
11:44<simon444>sick. they are doing it from behind
11:44<Rubidium>hylje: exactly, he's the person being kicked most ;)
11:44<@Belugas>just that CRTs are so huge space invaders :(
11:44<@Belugas>the only problem with them
11:44<hylje>space invaders !
11:45<SpComb>that's why I didn't get a CRT
11:45<@Belugas> <--- not much room for anything else...
11:45<@Belugas>it was given to me by my boss
11:45<@Belugas>i have two in fact,
11:45<@Belugas>same model
11:45<@Belugas>one awaits for the first to die
11:46<simon444>I have a CRT
11:46<simon444>It is huge
11:46|-|phryx [] has joined #openttd
11:46<simon444>has a HUGE resolution
11:46<simon444>and costs a fortune!
11:47<simon444>phryx, howdy stranger
11:48<phryx>stranger and stranger, have i been gone that long?
11:48<Digitalfox_Desktop>Belugas when TFT are a lot cheaper i'll send you one.. ;)
11:50<simon444>phryx, in Sweden yes.
11:51<@Belugas>thanks, Digitalfox_Desktop :) but i think i need a larger desk instead :D
11:51<phryx>i remember it only being yesterday i logged in to do some bad translation.
11:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10698 /trunk/src/ (23 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange [FS#1082]: simplify the code related to foundations. Primarily removal of (duplicated|magic) code and introduction of few helper functions to ease foundation determination. Patch by frosch.
11:51<phryx>speaking of wich, my webtranslator login died. :'(
11:52<Rubidium>phryx: then you must have been away for more than a year I guess
11:53<phryx>Rubidium: guess so. ;)
11:53<phryx>work has been crazy. :P
11:55<phryx>been having some free time lately and got a silly idea to check if there was anything eng-swe needing translation. :)
11:55<Rubidium>your name doesn't show up in my logs, which start begin of april 2006
11:56<phryx>haha, longer... ;)
11:56[~]phryx hides.
11:56<Rubidium>phryx: I think you should drop MiHaMiX an email if you want your account back, or rather request a new account as the whole webtranslator has been rewritten and such
11:57<phryx>so i noticed. :)
11:57<phryx>figured it was something like that. ;)
11:57|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:57<Priski>they say that programmes are heviest drinkers in the bussiness... no wonder
11:57<phryx>ill just check with him in here when he wakes to life again. :)
11:57<Wolf01>Belugas: less space than yours :( :D
11:58<Priski>after a 8 hours of paintaking debuggin beer tastes like a heaven
11:58<Wolf01>(dark corner, phone camera...)
11:59<@Belugas>i could not ...
11:59<@Belugas>too small, way too small space
11:59<hylje>Priski: also, worsethanfailure
12:00<Priski>seal is also a programmer? :)
12:01<phryx>damn, so many new faces in here. :S
12:01<Rubidium>Priski: then you must have had a very very paintaking debugging session as beer is disgusting
12:01<hylje>i code in python
12:01<hylje>i debugged for several hours some rather elusive bugs
12:01<Priski>i'm just glad that I did not go into c++ too deep, php is so much easier
12:02<hylje>eww, php :x
12:02<Rubidium>I'd recommend you to debug some OTTD desyncs :)
12:03<hylje>ive heard enough horror stories
12:03<Eddi|zuHause3><Wolf01> Belugas: less space than yours :( :D <- you stole that desk from a dollhouse?!?
12:03<hylje>and i dont have two comps available mostly
12:03<Wolf01>ehm... yes XD
12:03<Priski>Rubidium, everybody have their tastes, some drink beer, some whiskey, some get relaxed with joint or whatever makes you forget all the BS they had that day...
12:03<Rubidium>hylje: you don't need two computers all the time
12:03<Eddi|zuHause3>it's like 1/4th of my desk, and i have two of them :p
12:04<Wolf01>i have 5 pc around... these, my 2, one for my father, one for my sister/mother and the web server
12:04|-|helb [~helb@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:04<Rubidium>unless you are debugging endian desyncs
12:04<hylje>Rubidium: yeh well..
12:05<Priski>hylje, PHP is quite nice if you mostly code good OO-code, otherthan that it is somewhat bad language...
12:05<Rubidium>and debugging endian desyncs when you only have little endian machines is even more fun
12:05<hylje>Priski: webhosts barely support php5. OO is of little importance
12:05<hylje>besides, i find php lacking in OO metaprogramming
12:06|-|helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
12:06<hylje>and in overall anguage features
12:06<Priski>hylje, on my experience many use PHP5 already in their servers, but of course that depends on to whom do you make that code
12:07<Priski>and yes, there are still too much non PHP5 servers still at use
12:08<Priski>hard to turn back now when you have already lots of experience
12:09<Priski>and experience is that thing that is never enough, whatever do you code...
12:10<hylje>my experience with python makes me go "omg no ;_;" when it comes to php
12:10<hylje>i done a smallish project in php, in my own terms, with no maintenance overhead
12:10<hylje>working around php was painful
12:11<Priski>yeah I know that feeling too
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12:13<Priski>Man i'm feeling a bit buzz already
12:13<Eddi|zuHause3>"drink faster, it's already getting dark"
12:14<Priski>some beers from the fridge and off we go to see a neighbourgh and his new bottle of whiskey ;)
12:14<Priski>se ya all, dont get too depressed all the devs here :)
12:15<simon444>Priski, PHP was started by an Israeli uni grad. he didn't design it to be used as language for what it is being used today
12:15<simon444>Priski, this is one of those things that people don't like about oss
12:16<simon444>Priski, oss doesn't have any method for a consistent engineering style
12:16<hylje>bad projects have none
12:16<hylje>and what do you exactly mean with "engineering style" ?
12:16<simon444>Priski, everyone has their own style of design and it gets mixed in one big salad bawl
12:17<simon444>hylje, unix had a style
12:17<simon444>this is also a problem for most other operating systems out there...
12:17<simon444>not just a oss problem...
12:17<hylje>all larger projects have a consistent coding style and a roadmap
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12:17<hylje>or, rather, most
12:18<simon444>hylje, when people added things like graphics to unix they used a different style
12:18<simon444>hylje, unix no longer stayed as an everything is a file os
12:18<hylje>it used to be much worse than it is now
12:18<simon444>hylje, unix became some things are a file, some things are sockets some things are...
12:19<hylje>freedesktop imposes wel needed standards for X WMs
12:19<simon444><hylje> all larger projects have a consistent coding style and a roadmap
12:19|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:19<simon444>I am talking about engineering not coding.
12:20<hylje>when it comes to engineering with software, its hard to deduce a single perfect solution
12:20<simon444>this is more of a problem of the project coordinators than oss/commercial philosophies.
12:21<simon444>hylje, yes it is
12:21<simon444>hylje, look at Plan 9
12:21<hylje>thus we get several attempts at getting great solutions
12:21<simon444>the problem is
12:22<simon444>to have a successful project you can not locked down on developers using the same engineering style if you don't have enough money
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12:46<simon444>Sacro is back
12:46<simon444>everyone stop talking about sex
12:47<simon444><Rubidium> @kick sacro always wanted to do so
12:47<simon444>* Sacro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:47<simon444><SpComb> or order from pizza hut
12:47<simon444><Wolf01> ok, let's talk about sex, sacro has been dropped :D
12:47<simon444><hylje> noboy likes sacro
12:47<simon444><Rubidium> hylje: exactly, he's the person being kicked most ;)
12:48<Wolf01>but sacro is a good person, he made the daylength patch! ;)
12:53<Sacro>hylje: no, it's called "Sacro's daylength patch"
12:54<Wolf01>and is one line of code
12:54<Sacro>Wolf01: 2
12:55<Sacro>at least
12:55<Wolf01>oh yes, i forgot the comment
12:55<Wolf01>but that was the start for my patch ;)
12:56<Sacro>there was about 4 lines i reckon
12:57<simon444>let me guess the comment was:
12:57<simon444>/* they talk about sex behind my back */
12:57<SpComb>Sacro: just use the awaylogs :(
12:58<SpComb>you'd get the entire thing as hilights:
12:58<SpComb>19:40:53 -!- simon444 is now known as sacro
12:59<simon444>Sacro, that is totally fake
13:00<Sacro>i konw
13:00|-|StandartGamer [] has joined #openttd
13:02<simon444>everyone StandartGamer is here. Lets talk about sex!
13:03<simon444>Rubidium, kick Sacro again.
13:03<StandartGamer>um... yea XD
13:03<Eddi|zuHause3>again someone that did not realise that it is standar_d_
13:03<Sacro>Rubidium has no powers
13:03|-|StandartGamer changed nick to StandardGamer
13:03<StandardGamer>there :)
13:05<SpComb>the point of the awaylog is to make all of that automatic
13:05<SpComb>if the awaylog implementation sucks, then tell me why so I can improve it :/
13:05<Eddi|zuHause3>"Standarte" is something entirely different :)
13:06<simon444>SpComb, lol using your own bot to fake logs
13:06<simon444>SpComb, you have sunk to a new low
13:06|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
13:06<simon444>you even say it yourself in that faked log
13:06<simon444>"fake sacro"
13:08<Sacro>right, going out for birthday tea
13:08|-|Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:08<simon444>okay sacro is gone!
13:08<simon444>alright lets start talking
13:10<StandardGamer>so... only English guys here and only one German?
13:10<Eddi|zuHause3>not quite :)
13:11<Eddi|zuHause3>there are quite some dutch and several germans in here
13:11<hylje>dutn+1 dutch
13:11<Eddi|zuHause3>and a few people from odd countries...
13:11|-|lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:11<StandardGamer>ok i'm getting tired to try to connect to your puplic server for some watching
13:12<hylje>how many from even countries?
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13:16<Wezz6400>The Netherlands rule! ;)
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13:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10699 /trunk/src/bridge_map.cpp: -Fix (r10698): bridge middle parts were drawn too high if the southern bridge head has a foundation.
13:38<skidd13>Eureka, I got improved town roads working.
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13:50<@Belugas>good going skidd13 :)
13:50<skidd13>Next steps will follow
13:51<UnderBuilder>help: I can't 'remove safely' my mp3 player, when I try to do it, I get an error 'Unit is in use' or something like that (my windows is in spanish, don't know how does the english version look like)
13:51<@Belugas>simply remove it
13:51<UnderBuilder>but it can result damaged
13:51<@Belugas>the chance you' ve got somethnig broken by the process are REALLY slim
13:51<skidd13>Is youre explorer open?
13:51<Rubidium>restart windows
13:52<Rubidium>you know you have to reboot Windows at least once a day, don't you?
13:52<skidd13>log out is faster and should fix the problem or kill all processes that might use the player.
13:52<@Belugas>i do? damned... must be at least 2 months i have not done so :S
13:53<Digitalfox_Desktop>UnderBuilder: Use Unlocker it kills any process that could still be using your mp3 player
13:54<Digitalfox_Desktop>Also great for deleting folders and files
13:54<skidd13>If you have a good admin and a nice custumised install windows runs realy smooth.
13:54<Digitalfox_Desktop>I use it for 2 years now and it's freeware
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13:54<Rubidium>or attach a debugger at winlogon and then close the debugger (and winlogon). Helps will all kinds of locking issues.
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14:27<UnderBuilder>unlocker says that ctfmon is using the drive
14:27<Prof_Frink>kill it.
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14:46<Sug>hi, I'm getting the FS#956 bug again in 10699
14:48<Rubidium>I don't
14:50<Sug>hmm, its only doing it in a save game now actually
14:52<simon444>I find it annoying Google's spell checker has many typos
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14:59<Sug>put it up on flyspray with the savegame anyway
15:00<@peter1138>any particular vehicle?
15:01<simon444>I think in the year 2012 all vehicles should have updates which mount lasers to them!
15:01<Prof_Frink>simon444: There are no sharks in openttd.
15:01<@peter1138>well it's not crashing
15:02<Sug>maybe its just me
15:02<simon444>Prof_Frink, lol. You didn't tune into the news for the past few weeks
15:02<simon444>I think even slashdot covered it
15:02|-|Peakki [] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä]
15:03<Prof_Frink>simon444: About the 'merican anti-artillery lasertruck thingy?
15:03<simon444>ah yes,
15:03<Prof_Frink>Was also on El Reg
15:04<simon444>by 2020 everything should be updated to include lasers
15:12<Sug>Got a clean copy of trunk, and it still does it
15:13<Sug>guess I'm not going to be able to change names with that game
15:16<@Belugas>wrong window again
15:16[~]Belugas minimizes irc
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15:33<simon444>hi Ammler
15:33<simon444>Ammler, how is the transport system by your home?
15:34|-|Sug [] has joined #openttd
15:36<simon444>Ammler, it was featured in our media today
15:36<simon444>Ammler, they said you have buses going to towns with a population of 12 every hour
15:36<simon444>I assume they are mini-buses
15:37<Ammler>simon444: I guess, they didn't speak about me :)
15:38<Ammler>I wasn't here the whole day
15:38<Ammler>no idea about what you are speaking....
15:39<simon444><simon444> Ammler, how is the transport system by your home?
15:39<Ammler>who said that?
15:42<simon444><simon444> Ammler, it was featured in our media today
15:43<simon444>Ammler, stop doing drugs
15:43<@Belugas>crystal ball required...
15:43<Ammler>:) what a bot is that?
15:44<@Belugas>a usefull tool required to decipher obscured users thoughs ;)
15:45<simon444>Ammler, really stop doing drugs
15:45<Rubidium>oh, simon444? just /ignore -replies *!*@* ALL
15:45<@Belugas>thoughs or delirium.. it depends !
15:45<simon444>Ammler, you seem braindead
15:46<Ammler>Rubidium: thx
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15:48<Tlustoch>You should guys play the game online and learn how the game does _not_ work.
15:51|-|Moose^ changed nick to Rippsy^
15:52<@Belugas> to your service Tlustoch
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16:12<@Belugas>mmh... it's not "to your servive" but "at your service"
16:12<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, english is weird :p
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16:22<simon444>Tlustoch, here here!
16:22<simon444>hear hear!
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16:38<ln->can i ask something?
16:39<ln->from a developer.
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16:52<Rippsy^>ln-, just ask the question, phrase it politely and if someone knows they will answer
16:53<Koen>Hi guys! what is the most commons reason for pre-signals that won't work
16:54<Koen>As you can see in this screenshot, they appear to be broken ;)
16:54<simon444>Koen, bugs
16:54<Koen>it isn't a real complicated track
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16:55<simon444>Koen, use one way signals
16:55<Koen>for the rest of the track too?
16:55<Rippsy>im guessing by 'broken'
16:55<Rippsy>you mean trains wont enter the station
16:56<Rippsy>and its because on the exit all the tracks are connected with out signals, so they count as one piece of track
16:56<ln->Koen: it's probably best to ignore everything that simon444 says.
16:56<Koen>so, alle the to way signals to one-way should work?
16:56<Rippsy>its the station exit which is at fault
16:57<Rippsy>and stop using twoway signals on single direction track
16:57<Rippsy>it just confuses the path finding :P
16:57<simon444>ln-, shut up. what I told him was correct
16:57<Eddi|zuHause3>Koen: place a signal on each station end
16:57<Koen>well, it's a click more :)
16:57<Rippsy>Koen, if you use the latest nightly its one click for the whole track ;)
16:57<Koen>I'll try it later
16:58<Eddi|zuHause3>ctrl+click+drag i believe
16:58<Rippsy>Koen you see how the entrance to the station is.. make the exit the same (as in one piece of straight track then connect them all) and then put one way signals exiting the station
16:58<Rippsy>its lurvley :)
16:58<Rippsy>there ya go
16:58<Rippsy>thats what it should look like
16:59<Koen>Rippsy: it works, great :)
16:59<Rippsy>now you can make monster stations :P
16:59<Rippsy>*tries to find the kick arse signal guide he found last night*
17:00<simon444>I want to team with someone on a game
17:00|-|Rippsy^ [~Moose@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00<simon444>anyone interested?
17:01<Rippsy>not tonight :P
17:01<simon444>I will do the road transport you can do what ever other transport you want
17:01<simon444>Rippsy, pfft it is morning
17:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i am afraid you annoyed the hell out of everyone relevant :p
17:01<simon444>Rippsy, I am a nocturnal human
17:01<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, yeah like who?
17:01<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, tell me the truth you all love me
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>like, everyone...
17:02<Rippsy>simon444, usually I would
17:02<Rippsy>but sadl I have work tomorrow :P
17:02<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, if I was kidnapped you would pay the ransom
17:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think so...
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17:16<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, wtf.
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17:18<ln->if i wanted to do something win32-specific in strings.cpp, what's the appropriate way to do it?
17:19<Eddi|zuHause3>#ifdef win32?
17:20<ln->that's how i'm doing it now, but i very strongly doubt it's the appropriate way.
17:21<Rubidium>ln-: depends whether it needs to be ported to non windows platforms or not
17:21<Rubidium>and what it exactly is
17:22<ln->an alternative implementation for GetCurrentLocale() basically.
17:22<ln->the getenv-based which is currently used, is completely "portable", but does not give useful results on WIN32, as far as i know.
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17:30<Eddi|zuHause3>lmao -> :p
17:33<ln->1) is that really an LCD fernseher anyway..
17:34<Eddi|zuHause3>what else would it be?
17:34<ln->a regular crt fernseher.
17:34<ln->it's not particularly big, and it's not right next to the wall so there is room for the tube behind it.
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>i have no idea
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>it's not mine (fortunately :))
17:35<skidd13>Hooray the North American Road Set is out
17:35<ln->2) the floor, which is not even mentioned, might be one of the most expensive things to fix.
17:37<Eddi|zuHause3>the floor might be more expensive, but less important to fix
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>and it
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>'s certainly is not necessary for the joke :)
17:38<+glx>looks like an eurocard ads remake
17:39<ln->that picture has been floating around for some time without those texts attached.
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17:40<ln->Rubidium: would it be an acceptable solution to place GetCurrentLocale within #ifndef WIN32 in strings.cpp and implement it win32.cpp?
17:44<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, VERY old
17:44<simon444>also photoshopped
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17:46<Eddi|zuHause3>simon444: so what?
17:48<ln->simon444: you mean Enhanced with Adobe(R) Photoshop(r).
17:57<Rippsy>Eddi|zuHause3 floor is easy, sand it down, polish it up - assuming its real wood
17:57<Rippsy>not crappy pretend wood in which case they deserve it
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18:05<ln->it's ready.
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18:06<Eddi|zuHause3>water's wet.
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18:07<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, no it is not
18:07<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, that is a common myth
18:07<Rippsy>simon444, define wet
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18:08<simon444>Covered or soaked with a liquid, such as water.
18:09<Prof_Frink>Rippsy: Having to collect your kids from school in a hovercraft
18:09<Rippsy>Prof_Frink, only counts if you have a racing hovercraft and get in the local paper
18:09<Prof_Frink>Rippsy: And on the BBC wobsite
18:09<Rippsy>simon444, so by its very definition water is wet since to be wet is to be covered in water
18:09<ln->does anyone care to try it?
18:09<ln->probably not.
18:09<Eddi|zuHause3>and you want to tell me that water is not covered in water?
18:10<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, yes
18:11<Eddi|zuHause3>i kinda lack windows to try it :p
18:12<ln->tomorrow i could try to add yet another implementation for the macintosh.
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19:32<simon444>who wants to team with me in a game of ottd?
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19:43<Priski>hi there
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19:49<ln->or today
19:49<ln->actually it's ready as well.
19:50<Eddi|zuHause3>you do realise it is like 3AM?
19:50<ln->more like 4AM over here.
19:51<Eddi|zuHause3>actually i meant that as a reply to simon444
19:51<Priski>03:51 over here now :) on +2 GMT timezone
19:51<simon444>I have been up for 76 hours
19:51<simon444>actually other people just have been using my computer :D
19:52<Priski>76 hours? you must be a bit tired of just feeling "woozy" if you havent slept in that time
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19:53<ln->does someone care to test the os x patch? i guess not.
19:54<Priski>last time I was that much awake was in the week long camp in army, after 4 days of total sleep of 4 hours I run only on kaffeine pills.
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19:55<Touqen>A cousin of mine joined the US marines.
19:55<Touqen>I'm sure he's probably have the same wonderful experience over at bootcamp.
19:56<simon444>Priski, I am currently working for the CIA, dah.
19:56<Priski>that was time of mine life, allthought going around 20km march with 40kg packback was bit "painful"
19:56<Touqen>I can only imagine.
19:56<Touqen>simon444, set up any banana republics yet?
19:56<simon444>I am here to spy on all of you. So I can accuse you of terrorism if Government wants you behind bars.
19:56<Priski>well in here you HAVE to go to army at least half of year unless you have proper reason to not to
19:57<simon444>We need some type of evidence
19:57<simon444>therefore I am here to provide it
19:57<Priski>like uncurable dicease or you have to be an pacifist
19:57<ln->a proper reason could be e.g. 1) you are an athletic, 2) you are an actor, 3) you are a singer, 4) you are any kind of an artist.
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19:58<Touqen>you're not a citizen :D
19:58<simon444>ln-, you avoided paying tax on your ottd income
19:59<simon444>actually any reason why there is no company tax?
19:59<Priski>army for me was nice memories and mild bone ruptures :)
19:59<simon444>there should also be road tax and air tax
19:59<simon444>further benefits to the train industry
20:00<Touqen>because it's an transport game not an economic simulator
20:00<simon444>just so many things are good for the train industry it wont make a different to give it another unfair advantage
20:00[~]Touqen would like to have a transport game that was closer to a simluator though
20:00<simon444>Touqen, so it is a socialist game
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20:01<Touqen>Socialist how?
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20:01<Priski>hah simon444 wants proof on what? :)
20:01<simon444>I want what proof?
20:02<Priski>03:57 < simon444> We need some type of evidence
20:02<simon444>I need some sleep
20:02<Priski>i concur
20:02[~]simon444 reads what he said
20:03<Priski>go to bed already
20:03<Touqen>Are you trying to see if we are "socialists" or "communists"?
20:03<simon444>Priski, on your terrorism
20:03<Priski>what that has to do with terrorist, socialists or communists?
20:03<simon444>Touqen, separate discussions
20:04<Touqen>That's kind of a useless endeavour in here. Considering that most of the people in the channel exist outside of the United States and I doubt high level CIA people (the kinds of people capable of cgetting people arrested in foreign countries) wouldn't be advertising their CIA ties in here.
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20:05<Touqen>So.. I tried implementing PBS and failed miserably :/
20:05<Touqen>And disappeared for a while because I was so ashamed of myself.
20:05<Priski>socialism and communism is an ideology (or and political movement etc...) and terrorism is type of violence
20:06<Touqen>You can be a non-violent terrorist.
20:06<simon444>terrorism is the act of installing terror
20:06<simon444>recently it has been getting a new meaning
20:06<simon444>by recently I mean in the past 80 years
20:07<simon444>not an innovation of bush or anything irrational like that (cough, some that would get me locked up)
20:07<Priski>Touqen, true, "terrorism" is quite wide concept
20:08[~]Touqen guesses he should go and figure out what he's going to do for dinner before it gets to late.
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20:09<Priski>and meaning differs in trought world
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20:10<Touqen>Stupid VPN
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20:11<Touqen>Any suggestions what I should do for dinner?
20:12<Priski>meat, cucumber, salad, tomatoes and some nice taco sauce
20:12<Touqen>Well, being as I don't want to cook and the nearest place to get "tortillas" is taco bell...
20:12<Touqen>I don't think that is really an option this evening.
20:13<@Belugas>maybe an inventory of your fridge might help :)
20:13<@Belugas>pasta is always a winner
20:13<@Belugas>easy to cook, easily swallowed
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20:14<Touqen>i have water and beer in my fridge
20:14<simon444>Touqen, beeeeeer
20:14<Priski>basic macaroni
20:14<simon444><simon444> Touqen, beeeeeer
20:14<simon444><Touqen> i have water and beer in my fridge
20:14<simon444>that was quick
20:15<Priski>just minced meat and macaroni, and right spices do the trick
20:15<Touqen>Don't have any macaroni, nor do I have any non-frozen meats
20:15<Touqen>I've got a bachelor's fridge.
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20:16<Priski>have you got a microwave that has "defrost" option?
20:16<simon444>disassemble the fridge
20:16<simon444>you might find something eatable in the parts
20:17<Touqen>nope, no microwave
20:17<Touqen>Shocking, ain't it?
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20:18<@Belugas>not shocking, limitating would i say
20:18<@Belugas>but understandable
20:18<Priski>Touqen is from US?
20:20<Priski>can you answer few question? how old and what do you think of us politics today? - no need to answer if you dont want to, I'm just intrested :)
20:20<simon444>Priski, it is stupid.
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20:23<@Belugas>Priski, maybe you should specify interior of internatinal us politics ;)
20:23<@Belugas>not exactly the same thing
20:23<Priski>yeah it's not
20:23<Priski>but i'm asking both, just curious
20:24<Priski>thats why I said that no need to answer if no want
20:24<Priski>bti wide concept
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20:25<Priski>I'm just bit worried about todays world thats all
20:25<@Belugas>what i would like to know is if the american people are still almost equally divided between pro and anti Bush as during its re-election
20:26<@Belugas>i saw on the news that Swartzy might run for president. that would be fun :)
20:26<Priski>and I want to get into politics future if I think that I can make any difference
20:27<Priski>some people said already that I should be on elections, but don't know
20:27<@Belugas>not me
20:27<@Belugas>no matter what
20:27<simon444>I don't care about how anti-Bush you are but there are some things you don't
20:27<simon444>those happen to be the things many anti-Bush people are doing
20:27<simon444>anti-Bush people like Osama bin Laden
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20:29<@Belugas>i'm basically against politicians. I may be cynical, but from what i can see, they want to serve the people only afer they have been served themselves
20:29<@Belugas>i don't believe in altruism in politics. If you are a true samaritan or altruist, you will help people on the street, stuff like that
20:30<Priski>Belugas, that is the main reason that I want to make a difference at some point of my life
20:30<@Belugas>maybe the power corrupts the person. dunno.
20:30<Priski>Belugas, thats the human nature
20:30<Priski>nothing is never enought
20:30<@Belugas>but if it is your goal, and you truely belive in it, all i can say is work for it, Priski
20:30<@Belugas>dreama and goals are good
20:31<Priski>dreams keep me alive today :)
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20:31<@Belugas>me,it's coffee and the joys of newind.. coding
20:32<simon444>Belugas, nah it is democracy.
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20:32<@Belugas>seriously, i have wonderfull wife and kid, my dreams are pretty much fullfilled :)
20:32<simon444>Belugas, some parts of the system are just wrong and broken
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20:32<@Belugas>democracy exists only during elections simon444. don't get fooled
20:32<simon444>Belugas, can I have them
20:33<simon444>Belugas, I don't mean that part of democracy
20:33<Touqen>Even then, it barely exists.
20:33<simon444>Belugas, I mean the style of Government
20:33<@Belugas>there is no other part
20:33<simon444>elections != democracy
20:33<@Belugas>the people at the power are doing what they want once elected
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20:34<@Belugas>look up in the dictionnary what it means
20:34<@Belugas>it is not what we have.
20:34<@Belugas>once every 4 years (depends), people vote for their leaders, based on some promises
20:35<@Belugas>after that, the guys can do what the want, even if the whole population is against it
20:35<@Belugas>that is deocracy?
20:35<@Belugas>yeah right
20:35<Priski>hot fuzz -->
20:36<@Belugas>it would be if everyone could vote on every decision been made at parlement, through any kind of means
20:36<@Belugas>representative decision is not based on the people
20:36<simon444>that would be pointless
20:36<simon444>we might as well have no government then
20:36<Touqen>a true democracy is logistically impossible
20:36<@Belugas>that is what democracy is all about
20:36<Touqen>hence why democratic republics exist
20:36<simon444>democracy != elections
20:36<@Belugas>the greeks achieved it
20:37<simon444>democracy = style of Government
20:37<simon444>and a stupid one
20:37<@Belugas>simon444, you're repeating yourself without any new arguments
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20:37<simon444>the ancients had a lot more efficient systems
20:37<@Belugas>demo - people. cracy = gouvernance
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20:37<Touqen>simon444, yes a style of goverment where "the people" vote on issues.
20:38<simon444>Touqen, you could have a monarchy and the people still vote on issues
20:38<simon444>heck I think the bible even had that
20:39<Touqen>good point
20:39<simon444>a monarchy with people voting on issues
20:39<@Belugas>that is not a real monarchy
20:39<simon444>Touqen, democracy is some crazy style of Government. Comparable to English as a crazy form of language.
20:39<simon444>Belugas, why not?
20:40<simon444>Belugas, because the liberal want you to believe it is not?
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20:40<@Belugas>because the monarch does not have power, thus does not gouvern, thus is only an image, a symbol
20:40<simon444>A state ruled or headed by a monarch.
20:40<simon444>or from wikipediaL
20:41<Touqen>In monarchies as they exist today.
20:41<simon444>A monarchy, from the Greek μονος, "one", and αρχειν, "to rule", is a form of government in which a monarch, usually a single person, is the head of state.
20:41<@Belugas>which confirms what i said
20:42<simon444>Belugas, then that monarch is not a Government.
20:43<Touqen>Anyway, I'
20:43<Touqen>m not going to begin pretending that I know much about political structure.
20:43<Touqen>I'm going to venture out of doors and find a meal of some sort.
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20:44<Touqen>Later y'all
20:44|-|Touqen [] has quit []
20:45<simon444>Touqen, oh you know a lot more than some other politicians in the media and such.
20:45<simon444>he lefted!
20:47<simon444>I just had some asian call me from my doctor's office telling my I have an appointment on YXZ
20:47<simon444>they gave me the correct time
20:48<simon444>my doctor's office isn't big enough to outsource to asia
20:48<simon444>they have a local as the secretary
20:49<simon444>and when she is sick they have another local to fill in
20:49<@Belugas>as for myself, i'm immerging myself in the delights of coding
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20:56<simon444>Eddi|zuHause2, and Eddi|zuHause3
20:57<simon444>where is #1
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21:04|-|Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:19<simon444>want to team with me?
21:20<gamer1682>im sorry Im trying to find a way to get graphics files for free legally.
21:20<simon444>oh you are that new
21:20<gamer1682>guy? , yes.
21:20<simon444>@dcc gamer1682
21:21<simon444>someone should add that feature to the bot
21:22<gamer1682>anyways, do you know where I can find the TTD demo?
21:22<Digitalfox_Notebook>What do you mean " graphics files for free legally " ?
21:22<simon444>there was a demo?
21:22<Digitalfox_Notebook>yes there was at least tto
21:23<simon444>Digitalfox_Notebook, he means a way to get to a country with no copyright law for free
21:24<gamer1682>or use the demo of a game and extract the graphics files from that
21:24<simon444>ttd is some that should be in the public domain
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21:24<Digitalfox_Notebook>gamer1682: you want a link for downloading the files?
21:24<simon444>Digitalfox_Notebook, that wont be legal
21:25<simon444>and I must remind you I am a CIA agent
21:25<Digitalfox_Notebook>And you realise the only legal way is buying it?
21:25<gamer1682>yeah, the only problem with that is that theres no copies left
21:25<gamer1682>unless you live in the UK.
21:25<simon444>gamer1682, I got a copy
21:26<gamer1682>I mean copies you can buy
21:26<simon444>gamer1682, I can sell it to you for $50
21:26<gamer1682>no thanls
21:26<gamer1682>I live in the US
21:26<simon444>okay $100 USD
21:27<gamer1682>you can buy them for about $20.00 here
21:27<gamer1682>i mean more like $30.00
21:27<gamer1682>but for USD that is still a little expensive for a game that came out in 95'
21:27<simon444>then do so
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21:28<gamer1682>im not for sure if I want to or not
21:28<gamer1682>I bought Locomotion for $10 USD
21:29<gamer1682>im just looking for something I can play on my PSP
21:30<Digitalfox_Notebook>gamer1682: Anyway before i leave go here and maybe one of those links might be from a country you like :)
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21:32<gamer1682>wait can you send that link again digital fox?
21:32<gamer1682>wait what laguage was simutrans programmed in?
21:33<simon444>gamer1682, don't click! it is a trap
21:33<gamer1682>lol too late
21:34<gamer1682>why is it a trap?
21:35<simon444>that is secret information
21:35|-|MUcht [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36<gamer1682>why is it secret info?
21:37|-|Tobin-_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
21:37<simon444>that is the Government's business
21:39<gamer1682>was simutrans programmed in lua?
21:40|-|Xera [Xera@] has joined #openttd
21:41<Xera>Does anyone in here use OpenTTD-PSP and know a fix for the high pitch in game sounds?
21:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10700 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp):
21:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Enable to jump (by default) to the overriding industry tile spec of the one been queried.
21:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Only on certain very specific circumstances do we need the original spec
21:42<Turulo>Hi Xera, i do, currently im the one who ports it
21:42<@Belugas>simutrans is programmed in C++
21:42<Turulo>and its an sdl_sound issue, or at least i think so
21:42<gamer1682>is there any way to port simutrans to PSP?
21:43<Turulo>i never bothered about
21:43<@Belugas>i very much do doubt that
21:43<Turulo>gamer1682 why do you want to play simutrans on PSP when you have openttd?
21:43<gamer1682>I need graphics files for openttd
21:43<gamer1682>personally I don't want to break the law
21:43<Xera>ebay is your friend
21:44<@Belugas>on ebay, i kinda remembre you can find some copies of ttd
21:44<Turulo>you dont have and old copy of ttd?
21:44<gamer1682>im a new player
21:44|-|Lost-Hope|Thardas`Off changed nick to Lost-Hope|Thardas
21:44<Turulo>well Digitalfox_Notebook pointed you where to get the files
21:44<gamer1682>I have locomotion but not ttd
21:44<gamer1682>not legally
21:44<Turulo>and you can use them while you wait for your copy of the game
21:44<gamer1682>im out of money right now and on a low budget.
21:45<Turulo>its really better than simutrans, at least for me
21:45<gamer1682>I know
21:45<gamer1682>wait, is there a TTD demo?
21:45<Xera>Turulo, will there ever be a fix?
21:45<Turulo>well porting simutrans to PSP would take more time than earning the money to buy a ttd copy
21:46<Turulo>Xera i never bothered about it, but i can take a look, as i was preparing 0.5.2 and not many bug fixes where pending
21:46<Xera>cool :)
21:47<gamer1682>wait, when do you guys expect the new graphics files to be finished?
21:48<Turulo>i have no idea, anyway i think still will be faster to earn 10$ or less to buy ttd copy than waiting for that
21:48<Digitalfox_Notebook>DON'T WAIT FOR THAT
21:49<gamer1682>hey, does anyone know chris sawyer's email address?
21:49<Turulo>maybe its on his website
21:50<gamer1682>maybe we can email him to tell him to release TTD into public domain
21:50<Turulo>i dont really know, but i think micropose has the rights
21:52<gamer1682>microprose merged with atari?
21:52<gamer1682>have you played atari today?
21:52<Turulo>i dont know...
21:52<gamer1682>wait yeah it did.
21:52<gamer1682>thats why they released Locomotion
21:54<Turulo>just take a look to this
21:54<gamer1682>I saw
21:56<gamer1682>I'll have to reach hime through marjacq
21:57<Turulo>well, its up to you, as much as i can tell you openttd is one of the best rts that you can play at psp
21:58<gamer1682>what language was openttd programed in?
21:58<Turulo>C, anyway the svn branch is moving to C++
21:58<gamer1682>its amazing how light the programming is.
21:59<gamer1682>you can put openttd on your palm pilot!
21:59<Turulo>well it ran even lighter before
21:59<Turulo>but isnt bad
22:00<simon444>c++ meh
22:00<gamer1682>you can't use tt's graphics files for ttd, right?
22:00<simon444>move to obj.c+++#---
22:00<simon444>gamer1682, just steal it
22:01<simon444>gamer1682, I am looking for someone to lock up
22:01<simon444>no sorry
22:01<gamer1682>hey, if I can find a free way to get graphics files legally, everyone can.
22:01<Turulo>really i dont really know if abandonware its legal or not
22:02<Turulo>gamer1682 i dont think you can, as much you can do
22:02<Turulo>is use some newgrf
22:02<Turulo>but you still need ttd files
22:02<gamer1682>i no
22:02<gamer1682>its a shame they aren't completed yet.
22:03<gamer1682>and even though its abandonware its still under copyright.
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22:04<gamer1682>is any one still working on the newgrf?
22:05<Turulo>newgrf are just some town and train replacementes, or water etc..
22:05<Turulo>if you mean the full graphics replacement, i dont really know
22:05<Turulo>but i think they wanted to do it over 32bpp and still i dont know if stable branch of openttd will use 32bpp
22:06<Turulo>some people wasnt happy about using 32bpp
22:06<Turulo>i think openttd should stick to the original
22:06<simon444>gamer1682, move to another country
22:07<Turulo>anyway everyone is free to start a new branch
22:07<simon444>gamer1682, email the copyright owner
22:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r10701 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Make sure to not use an out of bound index when the index is specified by a grf file. It has a different meaning then.
22:07<Turulo>im with simon444 moving to another country would be the best solution, lol
22:07<@Belugas>openttd already has the hability to run in 32bpp
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22:08<Turulo>Belugas you mean stable or svn?
22:08<@Belugas>the only thing is that the sets been developped right now are not the proper ones
22:08<@Belugas>stable is an oooooooold version
22:08<simon444>maybe Gitmo would be a nice home for you
22:08<Turulo>i like stable
22:08<simon444>copyright terrorist
22:08<@Belugas>around r8000ish
22:09<@Belugas>i really prefer trunk, believe me :)
22:09<@Belugas>svn, if you wish
22:09<@Belugas>or nightlies even :D
22:09<@Belugas>have you tried newhouses? ttrs3?
22:09<@Belugas>a killer
22:09<Turulo>last time i ported svn to psp didnt contained 32bpp so i suppose it was as old as current stable lol
22:10<@Belugas>cold be.
22:10<@Belugas>i think i remember that...
22:10<@Belugas>yeah, you ported to psp and changed a few comments about who did what, or something like that...
22:10<Turulo>then i should test trunk version at pc
22:11<@Belugas>and restart our port woith trunk :D
22:11<@Belugas>your port with
22:11<@Belugas>i'm tird
22:11<@Belugas>time to sleep
22:11<Turulo>ok, i should sleep too
22:12<Turulo>Belugas maybe you are thinking on the one who ported openttd to palmos
22:12<Turulo>i never forgive the original developers
22:13<Turulo>and code was released since the first version, not as the palm guy
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22:20<Rubidium>I wonder what is still necessary for PSP support in trunk; TrueBrain has been quite busy with it a long time ago but did not finish it AFAIK
22:21<Turulo>well we both worked hard on it
22:21<Turulo>but didnt found a workaround for window sizes
22:21<Turulo>and toolbar sizes
22:22<Turulo>because as much as PSP can do is 320x272
22:22<Turulo>i can virtually display 640x??? but fonts look really pissed of
22:22<Turulo>as really it only displays 320x272
22:23<Turulo>WindowResize works fine for saveload screen, viewport, an so..
22:23<Turulo>but isnt working for toolbars, network window, and some others
22:24<Turulo>and duplicating window definition for PC and PSP wasnt a good approach
22:24<Rubidium>I agree with that last one
22:24<Turulo>then there is still a problem there..
22:25<Turulo>as WindowResize is a workaround in some cases
22:25<Rubidium>I think most windows can be made resizable
22:25<Turulo>but other windows, and toolbars are still a problem
22:25<Rubidium>what windows are a real problem?
22:25<Turulo>well let me think
22:25<Turulo>network servers window
22:26<Rubidium>network window is simple I guess, make it resizable and you're practically done
22:26|-|Chris82 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26<Turulo>wait there are some more... let me search
22:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10702 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix: "Can't build ..." instead of "Can't remove ..." message shown for road stops for trucks/cargo trams.
22:28<Turulo>newgrf window wansnt resizable
22:28|-|gamer1682 [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
22:28<Turulo>money statics graphs werent resizable
22:28<Turulo>at least on stable, i dindt looked trunk lately
22:29<Turulo>smallmap window wasnt resizable too
22:29<Rubidium>smallmap has been resizable for a long time
22:29<Turulo>as i told you i didnt looked at svn lately
22:29<Rubidium>i.e. from before 0.5
22:30<Turulo>ok i dont really remember as most of the window fixes where done too long ago
22:30<Rubidium>just fetch the 0.5 diff I guess
22:30<Turulo>the depot window to buy trains was to large too
22:31<Turulo>probably can also use WindowResize()
22:31<Turulo>then i will take a look to svn
22:31<Turulo>to see which windows are pending
22:32<Turulo>anyway toolbar and statusbar are still a problem
22:32<Rubidium>it looks wider than 320x272 in the screenshot at the website
22:32<Turulo>belive me all those screens are 320x272
22:33<Turulo>but toolbar and status bar are ugly hacked
22:33<Turulo>some icons are cut to half size
22:33<Rubidium>then I'll blame libpng for saying they aren't
22:33<Turulo>which screenshot do you mean?
22:33<Rubidium>they're 480x272 (or at least that's what libpng tells met)
22:34<Turulo>ohh sorry yes
22:34<Turulo>was my fault
22:34<Turulo>you are right its 480x272
22:34<Turulo>its panoramic
22:35<Turulo>Rubidium i also have a stupid patch for openttd to run properly on ps3
22:36<Rubidium>stupid patch being adding makefile support only?
22:36<Turulo>lol, nope
22:36<Turulo>ps3 hangs when listing network games
22:36<Turulo>as psp did
22:37<Turulo>reseting the socket to nonblocking fixes it
22:38<Turulo>i dont know if dcc would work, im behing a firewall
22:38<Turulo>i meant the patch is just 1 line
22:38<Rubidium>it doesn't :(
22:38<Turulo>at network_udp.c
22:39<Turulo> // Try to receive anything
22:39<Turulo>+ SetNonBlocking(udp);
22:39<Turulo> nbytes = recvfrom(udp, p->buffer, packet_len, 0, (struct sockaddr *)&cli
22:39<Turulo>ent_addr, &client_len);
22:39<Turulo>anyway i can send it to your openttd mail
22:39<Turulo>if you want to apply it
22:39<Rubidium>that sounds like a broken OS :(
22:40<Turulo>psp and ps3 ip stacks behave similar
22:40<Turulo>anyway i think the ip stack from sony is based on openbsd one
22:40<Rubidium>besides that ps3 compiles out of the box?
22:40<Turulo>sure, ps3 runs linux by default
22:40<Turulo>it complies clean
22:41<Turulo>i mean it can run linux, to play ps3 games it uses it own OS
22:41<Rubidium>I wonder whether there is a #define that is set for both PSP as PS3 when compiling
22:41<Turulo>i dont think there is one for ps3
22:42<Turulo>for psp there is --host=psp at configure time
22:43<Rubidium>if PS3 is just running plain linux that might be a problem
22:43<Turulo>yeps it runs plain linux
22:43<Rubidium>but I reckon there must be something in a header file telling it is PS3
22:43<Turulo>as much as can be done is detect arch
22:44<Turulo>or looking for /proc/cpuinfo
22:45<Turulo>let me boot linux at the ps3
22:46<Xera>Before I go, what do the little pin icons on each window do?
22:46<Turulo>$ uname -a
22:46<Turulo>Linux Ps3 2.6.21-gea96f0cb #12 SMP PREEMPT Sat May 5 00:42:03 CEST 2007 ppc64 Cell Broadband Engine, altivec supported GNU/Linux
22:47<Turulo>what do you mean by little pin icons?
22:47<Xera>opposite side to the close button
22:47<Xera>looks like a pin
22:47<Turulo>ohh it keeps the window on top
22:48<Turulo>but isnt really usefull on psp as it doesnt have a big screen
22:48<Turulo>so you will be really wanting to see scenario
22:49<Rubidium>Turulo: where can you download the development kit for PS3?
22:49<Rubidium>or isn't there any?
22:50<Turulo>well PSP and PS3 sdk are sony copyrighted
22:50<Turulo>and cost a fre hundreds of bucks
22:50<Turulo>also you must be employee from a game studio
22:50<Turulo>for psp guys at
22:51<Turulo>made a free one which i use
22:51<Xera>5am.. c ya
22:51<Turulo>see you Xera
22:51<Turulo>for ps3 there is also a free sdk
22:51|-|Xera [Xera@] has quit []
22:51<Turulo>but there is not way to run those executables onto ps3
22:52<Turulo>so the only way is booting linux
22:52<Turulo>and using standar gcc
22:52<Turulo>it not the same generating code for the game OS than the linux OS
22:52<Rubidium>that I can imagine
22:53<Turulo>if you want to build binaries for linux ps3, you can just build gcc, binutils and so
22:53<Turulo>as a normal cross compiler
22:53<Turulo> gcc -v
22:53<Turulo>Using built-in specs.
22:53<Turulo>Target: powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu
22:54<Rubidium> <- that's the cross compiler and such?
22:54<Turulo>not that is an approach to make an sdk from the game OS
22:54<Turulo>where only sony can execute binaries
22:54<Turulo>you must use gcc as cross compiler
22:55<Rubidium>hmm, so you have to make that environment yourself
22:55<Turulo>as you would do, to generate for example sparc binaries from a i386 box
22:55<Turulo>yeps, and no hacked gcc is needed
22:55<Turulo>just configuring gcc, binutils and so as target powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu
22:55<Rubidium>that sucks
22:55<Turulo>should do the job
22:56<Rubidium>as I can imagine a Mac G5 (i.e. ppc64) would have the exact same environment
22:56<Turulo>if it runs linux probably
22:56<Turulo>anyway i havent tested it
22:57<Turulo>because you can create a cross compiler for ppc64-linux or ppc64-macos
22:57<Turulo>i compile binaries from linux i386 for sparc solaris
22:58<Turulo>so as long as target would be powerpc64-unknown-linux-gnu
22:58<Turulo>i think it should work
22:58<Rubidium>I know you can cross-compile
22:58<Turulo>ok, sorry i wanted to mean that not only arch can be changed, also the target OS
22:59<Turulo>so ppc64-darwin wouldnt be valid
22:59<Rubidium>but what you've told me so far there is no way to actually determine whether it is running on a PS3
22:59<Turulo>well there are some specific ps3 linux headers
22:59<Turulo>for the cell broadband engine
23:00<Turulo>but those headers are not present on every ps3
23:00<Turulo>just if you installed them
23:00<Rubidium>but you don't need to have those headers
23:00<Rubidium>and as you just said, they don't give you insurance you've got PS3
23:00<Turulo>maybe looking for arch equal to "ppc64 Cell Broadband Engine"
23:01<Rubidium>nah, too cumbersome
23:01<Turulo>well then it would look like any arch running linux does
23:01<Turulo>it actually looks, sorry
23:02<Turulo>as much as can be done is looking for specific hardware
23:02<Turulo>such as the cpu
23:02<Turulo>or network device, and so
23:02<Rubidium>could always check PPC + 64 bits + not OSX and then just always do the NonBlocking
23:03<Turulo>well im using gentoo, some people runs OS on 32bits
23:03<Turulo>and some people may be running ppc + 64bit + linux
23:03<Turulo>on their mac computers
23:03<Rubidium>true, but SetNonBlocking wouldn't really hurt, except for a little performance
23:04<Turulo>yeps its worthwile
23:04<Turulo>anyway i havent tested openttd under openbsd to see if it behaves similar
23:04<Turulo>because its supposed PSP and PS3 ip stack are derived from openbsd
23:04<Turulo>maybe openbsd needs it too
23:05<Rubidium>or just check ppc + not OSX, eliminates most people
23:05<Rubidium>Turulo: if that was the case we would've heard about it
23:05<Rubidium>we've had some OpenBSD fixes lately and none were about locking network issues
23:05<Turulo>i suppose... really i dont know if too much people is running openttd online on their openbsd boxes
23:05<Turulo>ok nice then
23:06<Turulo>ip stack from openbsd on ps3 running linux sounds stupid
23:06<Turulo>but linux really runs under a hypervisor
23:06<Turulo>its like a virtual machine, so the ip stack would finally be the ps3 one
23:07<Rubidium>which is the reason it's only an issue for ps3 :(
23:07<Turulo>also on PSP
23:07<Rubidium>and apparantly psp
23:08<Turulo>if you apply the patch you should enable setnonbloking on both archs
23:08<Turulo>under /proc/cpuinfo
23:08<Turulo>there is platform : PS3
23:08<Turulo>platform : PS3
23:09<Turulo>$ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep platform | cut -d ":" -f2
23:09<Turulo> PS3
23:09<Turulo>that would do the job
23:10<Rubidium>not during compilation :(
23:10<Turulo>cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep platform | awk '{ print $3 }'
23:10<Turulo>well that would be better
23:10<Turulo>not at compile time
23:10<Turulo>but it can be used on configure time
23:11<Turulo>or for stable version at the Makefile
23:11<Turulo>on the os detection code
23:11<Turulo>and enable a define
23:11<Rubidium>it can't
23:11<Rubidium>if I run configure here to make a ppc64 linux binary, it will not get PS3 when it cats cpuinfo
23:12<Turulo>it wont work on cross compiling
23:12<Rubidium>it'll get nothing
23:12<Turulo>but for cross compiling --host=ps3 should be used
23:13<Turulo>if someone is compiling it under a ps3 it would work
23:13<Turulo>as is used for ps3
23:14<Turulo>i think truelight was wanting to use --host=psp when generating nightlies
23:14<Rubidium>yes, but that's because psp is a completely different architecture or so
23:14<Rubidium>ps3 is just plain old linux
23:15<Rubidium>(that's ran on a hypervisor)
23:15<Turulo>well i think when someone is cross compiling, try to always use --host=arch
23:15<Turulo>or target=arch
23:15<Turulo>so would be worthwhile
23:15<Rubidium>but arch would be ppc64-unknown-linux-gnu (IIRC)
23:15<Turulo>cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep platform | awk '{ print $3 }' would work for in box compilation
23:18<Turulo>i dunno then...
23:18<Turulo>i cand send you both the one line patch to see what you both agree
23:18<Turulo>maybe truelight has some other idea
23:18<Turulo>which we are missing..
23:18<Rubidium>TrueLight == TrueBrain
23:18<Rubidium>but he's asleep I guess
23:18<Turulo>i suppose
23:18<Turulo>but he would read it when wake up
23:19<Rubidium>I hope so ;)
23:19<Turulo>also releasing ps3 binaries would be nice :)
23:19<Turulo>and nigtlies
23:20<Turulo>but cross compiler may be a pain
23:20<Rubidium>just some ppc64-linux binaries ;)
23:20<Rubidium>it's plain linux, so I guess it ain't a pain
23:20<Turulo>yeps the worst would be setting up the cross compiler
23:20<Rubidium>OSX on the other hand...
23:20<Turulo>well it takes some time you know
23:21<Turulo>compiling gcc, binutils, glibc takes some time
23:21<Turulo>and dependencies
23:22<Turulo>arg also you can find 64bit environments and 32bit ones
23:23<Turulo>most of ps3 distros use 32bit, but for example i use gentoo at ps3, and recompiled everything for 64bit
23:23<Turulo>and didnt installed 32bit compat env
23:23<Rubidium>joy, 2 extra binaries
23:23<Rubidium>TrueBrain is going to be so happy ;)
23:24<Turulo>yeps i just meant that generating cross compilers its kind of boring
23:24<Turulo>and too much compile time
23:25<Turulo>sdl, freetype, libpng...
23:25<Turulo>also take some disk space, lol
23:26<Turulo>ok then i will send you both an email
23:28<Rubidium>then I'll continue sleeping ;)
23:28<Turulo>lol, im gonna dinner at 6:00 am now and sleep too :P
23:29<Turulo>i will review svn on psp this week and let you know
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23:53<Smoky555>hi! Can i see channel history somewhere?
23:59<De_Ghost>chat log?
23:59<Turulo>De_Ghost yes, playstation portable
---Logclosed Fri Jul 27 00:00:20 2007