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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-07-28

---Logopened Sat Jul 28 00:00:45 2007
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01:40<Wolf01>hello
01:53<@peter1138>hi
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04:51<macbane>any hint for ttd channel? =)
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05:02<Smoovious>yes
05:02<Smoovious>you're in one
05:02<Smoovious>or was
05:04<Wezz6400>lol nice going Smoovious
05:06<Smoovious>its my trademark... coming in too late
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05:14[~]Zr40 prods TrueBrain
05:14<Smoovious>get a room
05:15<Wezz6400>you just screwed your trademark
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05:21<Smoovious>well, it hasn't been perfected yet... that's why I haven't registered it yet
05:29<Wezz6400>well you were late on answering, just as I am now ^^
05:34<Smoovious>but not 'too' late
05:34<Wezz6400>nah
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07:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r10715 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: limited-fs code was broken
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07:47<kaan>hi all :)
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07:55<Digitalfox_Notebook>hi kaan :)
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07:57<Digitalfox_Notebook>kaan: Are thinking on releasing 1.0 final of your tool BuildOTTD ??
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08:01<kaan>Digitalfox_Notebook: sure, as soon as i get the time to reinstall my windows partition ;)
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08:03<kaan>but it will just be a promotion of RC1 as there has been no bugs reported at all
08:07<@peter1138>you'll get some once 1.0 is released :D
08:07<kaan>peter1138: im counting on that :P
08:07<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, it'll be some showstopper thing like everything hardcoded to your directories :p
08:08<kaan>Eddi|zuHause3: better yet, microsoft releases a new version of .net that changes everything
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09:02<Phazorx>does openttd has some kind of AMD based optimization ?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think so
09:16<skidd13>Is the cleanup of town owned roads by "Found local road construction" a good idea?
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09:18<Wezz6400>afaik it's only use is to obstruct competitor's vehicles
09:18<skidd13>True but what about this nice side effect?
09:18<Wezz6400>hmm don't know
09:18<+glx>who will be the owner then?
09:18<skidd13>The owner will stay.
09:19<skidd13>Town property will stay town property. The construction is paid by the donator.
09:21<+glx>then I don't understand your idea :)
09:22<skidd13>The idea is to get an optical nicer city.
09:22<skidd13>No more streets leading into houses, etc.
09:22<+glx>oh I sea
09:22<+glx>*see
09:23<+glx>could be nice yes
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10:40<@peter1138>hmm, an oil rig with 369 passengers
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10:57<Phazorx>somehow, dedicated server on t-bred 2500+/winxp, uses less CPU than on xeon 5160 3G / linux
10:57<Phazorx>and same goes for client i can play games on that 2500 that P4 3GHz users time out on
10:58<Phazorx>hence my Q about AMD optimization
10:59<Phazorx>naturaly, save being same and sampling timing close
11:00<Wezz6400>a thouroughbred is a very good processor, the P4 sure isn't, but the difference shouldn't be that big
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11:02<Phazorx>well on 150% clock speed, p4 needs half more cpu time
11:03<Phazorx>on tbred load is ~30%, on Xeon ~45-50%
11:03<Phazorx>with p4s it is even stranger
11:04<Phazorx>i play fine with cpu averaging ~80-85% (idle screen - 55-60, busy station zommed out - 100)
11:04<Phazorx>and p4s just drops out with 99% pegged after few seconds
11:05<Phazorx>i even sent my banary and batch file to P4 user
11:08<Hendikins>Maybe P4s suck? :P
11:09<Wezz6400>ofcourse
11:09<Wezz6400>especially late models with such high frequencies
11:11<Phazorx>still too fishy
11:11<Phazorx>xeons are not that bad of CPUs
11:12<Hendikins>Architecture differences could well account for it.
11:12<Phazorx>x86 all around
11:12<Hendikins>K7 and P4 are different architectures, even if they use the same instruction set.
11:13<Phazorx>well p4 and xeon are differnt too
11:13<Phazorx>same goes to tbre and barton
11:14<Phazorx>however 3800+ X2 is slower than this 2500+ too
11:14<Phazorx>at least accordingly to server test
11:14<Phazorx>i'd realyl like to profile that one
11:15<Hendikins>That I don't buy. I find my 2600+ 64bit Sempron to be quicker for doing dedicated than my dual 2600+ Bartons.
11:15<Hendikins>(although the dual is moot, since ottd can't use both CPUs)
11:15<Phazorx>suggest trying it
11:16<Phazorx>XeryusTC: got 25-30% higehr load on hix 3800
11:16<Phazorx>using same revision and save
11:16<Phazorx>ruins same OS
11:17<XeryusTC>when you consider it was one core ;)
11:17<XeryusTC>if you take dual coring into account it was almost half :P
11:17<Phazorx>cant count like that
11:17<Phazorx>XeryusTC: care to do profile run ?
11:17<XeryusTC>yes we can ;)
11:17<XeryusTC>no :P
11:17<XeryusTC>it took only 20% of my total cpu
11:17<XeryusTC>or sth
11:18<Phazorx>yeah... but xp sees 200% as total
11:18<XeryusTC>no
11:18[~]Hendikins isn't using Windows, perhaps that helps?
11:18<XeryusTC>it sees 100% as total
11:18<Phazorx>of one core full load is 50% - it doesnt sound like 100% to me
11:19<XeryusTC>both cores full load is 100%
11:19<Hendikins>My Bartons use 32bit OpenSUSE 10.2 with 32bit openttd. My Semprons use 64bit OpenSUSE 10.2 with 64bit openttd :P
11:19<Phazorx>Hendikins: linux actualy got worse performance somehow
11:19<Phazorx>Hendikins: i can dcc the save
11:19<Hendikins>And yes, Win32 will take 100% of all cores to be 100% CPU usage.
11:19[~]Hendikins broke DCC.
11:20<Phazorx>well i dont mind publishing it
11:20[~]Hendikins ran dual CPU kit with Windows, albeit a few years ago now, and 100% of 1 CPU = 50% CPU usage according to task manager
11:21<Phazorx>so if he gets 20% load on openttd.exe means 40% of power of one core
11:22<Hendikins>And since ottd can only use one core/CPU, that means 40% of CPU power available to it
11:22<Phazorx>which is mroe than 30-35% on 2500+
11:23<Phazorx>current save is mroe advacned tho
11:23<Phazorx>but fluctuates a lot
11:23<Phazorx>do i need to ocmpile debug one for profiling, i frogot again?
11:25<XeryusTC>Phazorx: you forget the fact that ottd can only use 50% of my cpu
11:26<Phazorx>XeryusTC: same goes for ammlers server that has 4 cpus
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11:26<Phazorx>but we are comparing appels to apples
11:26<Phazorx>per core, yours should eb faster than mine'
11:26<Phazorx>or at least same speed
11:27<Phazorx>since it has same clock
11:27<Hendikins>As far as I'm concerned dual core just doesn't have the same status as dual CPU :P
11:27<XeryusTC>one core is equal to a 1900+
11:27<Phazorx>really ?
11:27<XeryusTC>well, about equal :P
11:28[~]Phazorx would really liek aprofiling run
11:29<XeryusTC>i think that running some futuremark cpu test is better to compare cpus than running ottd
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11:29<Phazorx>i am questioning code optimization for AMD cpu
11:29<Phazorx>how's futuremark is gonna show it ?
11:30<XeryusTC>they have better tests ;)
11:30<Phazorx>better fow what ?
11:31<Phazorx>shoind openttd code quircks?
11:31<XeryusTC>testing, duh
11:31<Phazorx>artificial tests is kidna silly for this subject
11:31<Phazorx>i know it should eb faster
11:31<Phazorx>i'm tryignt o find out why it isnt
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11:34<XeryusTC>there can be a dozen of reasons
11:35<Phazorx>profiling may shed some light on it
11:35<Phazorx>especially if Hendikins would join the fest
11:36<Eddi|zuHause3>optimisation for any kind of CPU is the compiler's job
11:36<Eddi|zuHause3>it has hardly anything to do with the code itself
11:36<Phazorx>hmm...
11:37<XeryusTC>Eddi|zuHause3: you can influence it by what code you use etc
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11:58<Wolf01>hello
11:59<skidd13>Is there a funcion which gets the roadbits, as well when there are roadworks on them?
11:59<skidd13>hi Wolf01 how is the brickland project goin on?
12:00<Wolf01>you can see the last improvement in the forum
12:01<skidd13>nice work, but I still miss AA ;)
12:01<Wolf01>teach it to paint
12:02<skidd13>I do the AA by Hand
12:02<skidd13>Nearest neighbor fits in most cases.
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12:04<skidd13>Has anyone of the devs a few time, to help me with my road_cleanup patch?
12:05<Phazorx>after profiling it makes even less sense now
12:06<Phazorx>274 vs 1698 seconds
12:06<skidd13>Sure a lot of new conditions. But it's not at it's final state.
12:09<skidd13>I've got problems with the roadworks. Maybe an dev has a wise advice.
12:10<skidd13>Phazorx: Which patch did U use?
12:10<Phazorx>no patches
12:10<Phazorx>i'm benching intel vs amd
12:10<skidd13>Ah
12:10<skidd13>Which is which?
12:11<Phazorx>2500+ vs Xeon 5160 3Ghz
12:11<Priski>:/
12:11<Phazorx>visualy there was less difference
12:11<Phazorx>but still in tbred favor
12:11<@peter1138>1.83GHz vs 3GHz? heh
12:12<skidd13>desktop VS workstation
12:12<@peter1138>like there's any difference
12:14<Phazorx>it's a tbred not barton
12:14<Phazorx>so 2000mhz vs 3000mhz
12:14<Phazorx>according to taskman and top
12:15<Phazorx>tbred had ~30% load while xeon was ~50%
12:15<Phazorx>profiling run makes no sense to me at all
12:16<skidd13>Why is there an assertion in (Get|Set)RoadBits?
12:16<Phazorx>running on different 5160 now... let's see
12:17<Phazorx>does gmon/profiling works different for win/unix ?
12:19<Phazorx>and can anything run in background somehow affect profiling?
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12:28<Chris82>does anybody know if this patch http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=14819&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=140 was added to trunk or is outdated?
12:29<+glx>not in trunk
12:31<Phazorx>glx: have you ever delat with profiling in mingw?
12:31<+glx>never tried very hard
12:32<Phazorx>what i want to know if results are cross platfrom comparable
12:32<+glx>if you tell me the rev and gave me a savegame I can try
12:33<Phazorx>r10620
12:33<Phazorx>what os/cpu ?
12:33<+glx>winxp x2 3800+
12:33<Phazorx>perfect
12:35<Phazorx>i'm doing: openttd.exe -v null:ticks=10000 -g save/test.sa
12:35<Phazorx>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/test.sav
12:36<Phazorx>and i really wonder what load will you see in taskman if you just openttd.exe -D -g save/test.sav it
12:37<+glx>I reconfigured with enable-profiling
12:37<Phazorx>kinda required
12:43<+glx>ok openttd -D around 40%
12:44<Phazorx>one core ?
12:44<+glx>openttd uses only one core
12:44<Phazorx>40 is sclaed to one core 40% or 40% as windows sees it ?
12:44<+glx>so it is like 80% for a single core cpu
12:44<Phazorx>ahh
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12:46<Phazorx>it doesnt rreach 80 ehre
12:46<Phazorx>fluctuates quite a bit tho
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12:47<Wezz6400>if you have dual core windows will never display the load on one core above 50%
12:47<Phazorx>glx: can ya do a profile run plz
12:47<+glx>doing it right now
12:47<Phazorx>Wezz6400: that was exactly my point i was trying to clarify
12:48<Phazorx>on 2500 it looks like 65-70 but i seen as low as 40 and as high as 100
12:49<Phazorx>nm that was due to priority
12:49<Phazorx>or not
12:50<+glx>10000 ticks with your save is very long
12:50<Phazorx>274 sec
12:51<Phazorx>that's on mine and 180 for one Xeon and 1700 for another
12:57<+glx>Phazorx: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/phazorx.txt
12:58<Phazorx>that makes sense for CPU perfromance... but not for taksman
12:58<Phazorx>thanks
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13:01<kaan>withdrawals!
13:01<kaan>i hate when the net isnt working!!!!!!!
13:03<Prof_Frink>kaan: Calm down, you have internets now
13:07<Chris82>is it actualy possible again to update attachments?
13:07<Chris82>in the forums I mean
13:08<Chris82>otherwise I'll just delete the old ones now and hope no one has linked them :D
13:08<TrueBrain>Zr40: I hate it when you do that ±p
13:08<TrueBrain>:p
13:09<kaan>hmmm, autoslopes is twisting my brain, maybe i should take a break :)
13:10<TrueBrain>or replace your brain :p
13:10<kaan>ohhh, nice idea, anyone have a spare?
13:10<TrueBrain>hmmm
13:10<TrueBrain>let me check...
13:10<TrueBrain>yup, I have one
13:11<TrueBrain>mailorder?
13:11<kaan>ohhh, good, ill take it, please do mail it :)
13:12<kaan>it is quite fun to watch a power plant drop a level when you remove its foundation :P
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13:33<Smoovious>Chris82... I was able to replace an attachment
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13:55<TrueBrain>Stupid shit: /var/tmp/cross/powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu/portage/gcc-4.1.1-r3/work/gcc-4.1.1/gcc/crtstuff.c:1: error: -msecure-plt not supported by your assembler
13:55<TrueBrain>Turulo: first attempt to compile the crosscompiler failed :p
13:59<Smoovious>maybe it needs to be cross-compilied first? :D
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14:53[~]Zr40 prods TrueBrain
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15:04<kaan>is there any sort of state variable set when the game is generating a new map?
15:06<Rubidium>somethinggenertatsomething
15:06<Rubidium>somethinggeneratsomething
15:07<kaan>so i just do this i guess : if (somethinggeneratsomething) {
15:07<kaan>;)
15:07<Eddi|zuHause3>if(_generating_map)?
15:08<Rubidium> /ignore #openttd kaan
15:08<kaan>hehe
15:09<Rubidium>oh crap, it had a space in front of it... stupid client, you should trim strings before parsing them
15:09<+glx>IsGeneratingWorld() <-- that could do it too
15:10<kaan>ohhh, nice
15:10<Eddi|zuHause3>the joy of grep :p
15:11<Rubidium>giving the complete answer isn't didactically favourable, giving a hint is
15:13<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't even know if my answer was even remotely correct
15:15<kaan>glx that worked wonderfully :)
15:15<kaan>now im going to post my broken autoslopes patch :P
15:15<kaan>well in a minute anyway
15:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i thought we had enough broken autoslope patches already?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause3>and i also thought it was decided that the proper way was to store slopes (or all 4 corners) explicitely in the map
15:20<kaan>I didnt hear anything about that anywhere ... but then i had a nice vacation :D
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15:27<Rubidium>neither did I
15:35<Eddi|zuHause3>well, technically, i heard celestar saying he wanted to do it that way a year ago, but he lacked approval of the developers' committee or something :p
15:37<Smoovious>well, storing 4 corners would alllow future terrain changes too... steeper slopes maybe... more gradual height changes... so long as there are sprites to support them... .. .
15:38<Smoovious>and the huge headaches that come with em. :D
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15:41<Smoovious>would someone using the latest nightly, type an underscore in the console, and see if the window zooms out at the same time?
15:41<Eddi|zuHause3>exactly, the current system is a horrible mess of hacks and special cases for slopes
15:42<Smoovious>hmm... for that matter, the console isn't showing in the right place either...
15:43<Smoovious>so, not knowing if i t is ChrisIN specific right now... .. .
15:46<Prof_Frink>Smoovious: No zoomout here (r10715)
15:47<Smoovious>what OS?
15:47[~]Smoovious waits for his own r10715 to compile
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15:49<Prof_Frink>leenooks
15:49<Smoovious>okee, thanky
15:50[~]Smoovious tosses the penguin back.
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>[... dozens of "xxx.grf not found" messages ...]
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>dbg: [sprite] Tried to load real sprite #4627 as a non sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>Error: !Disconnecting road vehicle.
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/openttd.cpp:110: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
15:52<Eddi|zuHause3>is that how this is supposed to work?
15:53<Rubidium>not really I guess, but apparantly you had a savegame with ARVs and you didn't have the appropriate grfs
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15:54<Eddi|zuHause3>hm... the console window is not fully painted black...
15:55<Eddi|zuHause3>there is a stripe about as big as the main toolbar not painted black
15:56<Eddi|zuHause3>you can see that it is part of the console window if you scroll while the console is open
15:56<Eddi|zuHause3>but underscore does not zoom out for me either...
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15:59<Smoovious>the viewport glitch for the console sounds like the other part of what I saw
16:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10716 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: not all windows' minimum size is actually their minimum size, so take the size of the window after WE_CREATE has been called as bare minimum size.
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16:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10717 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: in-game console had a "transparent" part when opened in a game, while it did not in the menu.
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>looks better :)
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16:24<Smoovious>still getting the zoom-out with r10717 with the console open on Win32
16:25<Smoovious>network
16:27<Wolf01>'night
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17:29<kaan>night all :)
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 29 00:00:22 2007