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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-12

---Logopened Sun Aug 12 00:00:44 2007
00:27<SERVEPRO>Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
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02:22<hylje>progman, i fixed some more escaping overlooks, also slugifier (umlauts work as expected now)
02:23<hylje>although you *can* collide stuff with abusing the slugifier a bit.. :-)
02:23<hylje>however i'm tweaking the data structure a bit and so i'll be cleaning opr db records partially
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02:26<hylje>think i'd want to remove your erroneusly named users too :p
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03:54<hylje> call for breaking
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03:58<hylje>and the code's been shaping up somewhat well
04:00<SpComb>hmm, project source code management tools
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04:17<SpComb>also, Django?
04:17<hylje>oh yes.
04:18<SpComb>I played around a bit with yesterday:
04:18<SpComb>comes complete with lolcats-speek
04:21<SpComb>but has weird magic as well, although on a smaller scale of magintude than pylons
04:23<SpComb>yeah, I had "users = {}" in the same module as my classes/handlers, and on every request, the users global was a new, empty dict, irrelevant of how I modified it in earlier versions
04:23<SpComb>moved it over to a module, and importing that, and it's maintained between requests
04:23<SpComb>not sure what's going on there
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05:01<Wolf01>ok, seem that now i'm ready to compile ottd witn vs2005..
05:02<Wolf01>this afternoon i need your help TrueBrain, i'll try to compile for winCE
05:14<Wolf01>just one question, how to make install?
05:17<hylje>Progman: i'd appreciate you breaking opr again
05:21<Rubidium>does version need to be 3 characters long?
05:21<Rubidium>why can't I add patches made against a git tree?
05:22<Rubidium>the fact that there is less space above than below the "error" messages when adding a patch gives me the feeling that they belong to the input box above instead of the input box below
05:22<hylje>i know
05:22<hylje>i just havent touched the styles too much
05:22<hylje>and about git patches, is there an error?
05:23<Rubidium>"Enter a whole number."
05:23<hylje>oh, i see
05:23<Rubidium>9ca1941d91b6ce6359442701dfcfa45880e9f48f <- that's the revision
05:23<hylje>i'll tweak it to allow alphanumerics then
05:24<hylje>and is version being at least 3 characters long problematic?
05:24<Rubidium>it is when you number them without minors
05:25<Rubidium>could always write the version in english ;)
05:25<hylje>ive thought of adding an universal humanizing filter to numbers
05:25<hylje>1-9 -> "one", "two", ..
05:27<Rubidium>the diff "viewer" doesn't show tabs
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05:27<Rubidium>or multiple subsequent spaces for that matter
05:27<hylje>layout problem, will get to it
05:27<hylje>rather style problem
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05:28<Rubidium>cool, I can make fix thises for non-existent lines in the diff
05:29<Rubidium>or negative linenumbers
05:30<hylje>that's fine as it doesnt break stuff, is just a bit.. insane :p
05:30<hylje>i'll make it more sane after i get the more crucial stuff fixed
05:31<Rubidium>"empty" comments are probably not nice either
05:32<TrueBrain>Wolf01: not (the make install)
05:32<hylje>Rubidium: empty comments fixed (locally)
05:32<hylje>is the git revision always 32 characters?
05:34<Rubidium>hmm, why is last name required when I don't have a last name filled in there? (profile)
05:34<Rubidium>that way I can't "just" change my "free" text
05:34<Rubidium>well, not for "free" at least
05:35<hylje>ill see to that
05:35[~]SpComb ponders fiddling around with django
05:36<Rubidium>booh..., can't make a patch with name "who cares" anymore :(, even though there is no patch called "who cares" (in any (upper/lower) case combination)
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05:37<TrueBrain>hylje: the FixThis urls are not really.... correct :p I added 2 FixThis with the same Summary, and now they both link to the same url
05:38<hylje>TrueBrain: yeah, misplaced unique constraint really
05:38<Rubidium>and why does it only do the patch name check when all other checks have succeeded?
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05:39<hylje>Rubidium: the name check is elsewhere at the moment, ie it doesnt do it when the other fields validate
05:39<TrueBrain>hylje: the FixThis things are overcomplicated; it should be easier, somehow... dunno what exactly, maybe it is just the way it is printed
05:40<TrueBrain>but a Summary and a Comment field for it, seems overkill
05:40<TrueBrain>(no developer wants to spent days on adding those things ;))
05:40<hylje>true.. streamlining :)
05:40<hylje>i'll fix these things and see how it could be made neater
05:41<Rubidium>:O my last two fixthises urls point to
05:41<TrueBrain>the user rating.. why not make 5 radioboxes, from 1 to 5?
05:41<hylje>TrueBrain: the current one is a quick hack
05:41<hylje>Rubidium: oh, thanks you found a relativity bug
05:42<TrueBrain>hylje: can you make that 'get-diff' gets the name of the uploaded filename?
05:42<Rubidium>what? I've proven that Einstein was wrong?
05:42<hylje>TrueBrain: yes, but the data structure doesn't currently support that
05:42<TrueBrain>(maybe possible via headers)
05:43<hylje>its no biggie
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05:43<TrueBrain>and one thing sucks about Django, it can not ALTER tabls, only totally reset it...
05:43<TrueBrain>a bitch to change things later on...
05:44<hylje>the user can alter table though
05:44<Rubidium>TrueBrain: that by design, so you pay more attention when you are designing your application ;)
05:44<hylje>its a matter of beign spoiled
05:44<hylje>considering that the code isnt totally awful anymore ive thought of releasing it too
05:45<TrueBrain>hylje: add your site to git :)
05:45<hylje>enlighten me
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05:45<TrueBrain>it was more of a joke :p But if you really want it, we can arrange it for you
05:45<TrueBrain>just tell me you are not using Window
05:46<hylje>i'm not
05:46<TrueBrain>pfew :p
05:46<Wolf01>[12:32:28] <TrueBrain> Wolf01: not (the make install) <- so treasure finding for the files?
05:46<TrueBrain>Wolf01: yeah: bin/
05:46<Wolf01>it puts all the files in objs/release/
05:47<TrueBrain>the binary you have to get from there yes
05:47<Wolf01>all mixed with .o etc
05:50[~]SpComb thinks he managed to break it, inaways
05:50<SpComb>clicking on the "service" patch on the front page has a certain undesired side-effect, as well as making it impossible to view the page for that version
05:51<hylje>ah yes, namespace collisions :)
05:51<hylje>ill add those to validation
05:52<SpComb>and make logout use POST
05:52<hylje>would you mind to let me know of a neat way of doing that?
05:53<SpComb>well, it would have to be a form with a submit-button, if you wanted to keep it as a link you'd need javascript
05:53<hylje>the submit button can masquorade as a link
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05:54<SpComb>with css styles?
05:54<hylje>more or less
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05:57<SpComb>no / or % in version names :(
05:58<TrueBrain>hmm, who knows this: somehow when I now call system() from my PHP scripts, like: system("/bin/ls");, the command /ls is called
05:59<SpComb>hmm, the username gets truncated
05:59<TrueBrain>ah, safe_mode
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06:00<hylje>SpComb: ?
06:01<SpComb>I signed up with a 1024-char username, and it gets truncated down to 30 chars
06:01<hylje>oh, thats such a bug
06:01<hylje>i'd call that design
06:02<hylje>however ive been improving registration a bit now
06:03<SpComb>silent truncation
06:04<hylje>hmm it shouldnt do that anymor
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06:11<hylje>fixing the FixThis.. the irony.
06:13<SpComb>the svn project uses svn for their source code management
06:13<TrueBrain>sounds like a DAH!
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06:14<SpComb>I just wonder what they do if they discover some kind of corrupt-everything bug in whatever version of svn they are using themselves
06:14<TrueBrain>load back a nightly dump, like we can? :)
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06:15<SpComb>well, if it's some kind of consistent bug or something
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06:16<Gekko>I like to touch.
06:17<TrueBrain>@kick Gekko touch this
06:17|-|Gekko kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [touch this]
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06:17<Gekko>I did.
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06:22<TrueBrain>then a website asks for your VAT number, so you fill it in: INVALID VAT NUMBER
06:22<TrueBrain>fuck you
06:23<TrueBrain>(no, not you!)
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06:38<TrueBrain>k, guys, need your help: <- who can find a page that isn't working (and within domain ;))
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06:47<Wolf01>except the links?
06:48<TrueBrain>hmm, transition from Apache to lighttpd went VERY smooth
06:49<TrueBrain>and for the next 24 hours it even works cross-http :p
06:49<izhirahider>the site seems a lot faster by the way
06:49<TrueBrain>it is
06:50<TrueBrain>about 10 times
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06:50<TrueBrain>I now switched it back to, and it takes a DNS update before you now use lighttpd :)
06:51<izhirahider>why did you switch?
06:51<TrueBrain>Apache is bloat-ware
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06:54<izhirahider>TrueBrain, are you also switching WT2?
06:54<TrueBrain>izhirahider: no, that is currently at an other host
06:55<TrueBrain>anyway, you just said it yourself: it is a LOT faster
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07:08<skidd13>@seen RichK67
07:08<@DorpsGek>skidd13: RichK67 was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 57 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <RichK67> gnight
07:09<hylje>oh, sigh
07:10<hylje>can't properly install git on my dedi
07:10<hylje>about time i'll get a new box :p
07:11<TrueBrain>want one? :p
07:11<hylje>i got one stashed but i'm waiting for an identical box to upgrade it with
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07:24<Wolf01>TrueBrain, do you want to help me to compile ottd for wince?
07:24<TrueBrain>Wolf01: sure
07:24<TrueBrain>apply, switch to correct thingy
07:24<TrueBrain>and happy compiling
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07:29<Wolf01>uhm, i got some errors
07:29<Wolf01>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\ce\include\crtdefs.h(100) : fatal error C1189: #error : ERROR: Use of C runtime library internal header file.
07:29<TrueBrain>euh, that problem happened when......
07:30<TrueBrain>something was forgotten somewhere...
07:30<TrueBrain>can't remember :p
07:30<TrueBrain>you switched to PocketPC SDK?
07:30<Wolf01>uhm, i just set to compile for windows mobile 2003
07:30<TrueBrain>yeah, that won't work
07:30<TrueBrain>PocketPC is the only one I added
07:30<TrueBrain>Windows Mobile 5.0
07:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10864 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Add: Dutch translations to the NewGRF to show how translations should be added to the NewGRFs.
07:35<Wolf01>ok, now is slightly different:
07:36<TrueBrain>I am pretty sure my patch solved that problem
07:36<Wolf01>i patched the sources
07:36<TrueBrain>you applied against revision of the patch?
07:36<TrueBrain>downgrade please
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07:37<TrueBrain>(just svn is down for the moment, so you can't :p)
07:37<TrueBrain>k, now it works again :)
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07:44<Wolf01>same errors
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09:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10865 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
09:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: Added oilrig. Reloads correctly for old games.
09:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Add: Added SYST class for system (hidden) FSMs (like oilrigs), that should not appear in the build lists.
09:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10866 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/airports.grf: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Removed letters NW etc from arrow icons.
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09:41<hylje>TrueBrain: did you happen to set a password for my git?
09:41<TrueBrain>hylje: just for your ssh account
09:42<hylje>it appears to not eat my pw
09:42<TrueBrain>try again?
09:43<hylje>tried a couple of times
09:43<TrueBrain>it indeed fails
09:43<TrueBrain>one moment
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09:44<TrueBrain>hylje: it is a git only account, but it should work :s
09:46<TrueBrain>try now
09:46<TrueBrain>for some reason the git-shellw as removed from the allowed shells
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09:48<hylje>error: dst refspec patchtracker does not match any existing ref on the remote and does not start with refs/.
09:48<TrueBrain>ah, yes
09:48<TrueBrain>I was afraid of that :) My line was wrong :p
09:48<TrueBrain>if I could jsut remember the correct syntax :)
09:50<TrueBrain>Rubidium: do you remember the push line to create a new branch in remote git?
09:52<Rubidium>maybe git push <branch> ssh://<path>:<branch>
09:52<TrueBrain>hmm, no
09:52<TrueBrain>what might work, hylje, is: master:refs/heads/patchtracker
09:52<TrueBrain>instead of master:patchtracker
09:53<TrueBrain>\r :s
09:53<TrueBrain>hi marc-andre
09:53<marc-andre>how can i activate newindustries in the nightlies?
09:53<marc-andre>if it is possible
09:53<+glx>you can't
09:54<marc-andre>i thought maybe it's possible now because the GRFs just say that the newindustries switch must be activated
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09:54<+glx>this switch is not the only needed stuff
09:59<hylje>TrueBrain: in case you're interested, the git tree is pushed now
09:59<TrueBrain>hylje: I noticed, I will look into it :)
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10:09<hylje>i better learn how git works in the future :p
10:09<hylje>oh, all so much stuff to be done
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10:22<TrueBrain> <- it is back online for testing; if the CPU load and slowness of the page is still as high as it was a year ago, it will be gone soon again :)
10:22<Sacro>zomg trac!
10:23<Prof_Frink>while :;do curl >/dev/null;done
10:24<TrueBrain>while true; do if event.join(Prof_Frink); then kick Prof_Frink; fi; done
10:24<Prof_Frink>That's not very nice
10:24<TrueBrain>neither are you :)
10:28<Eddi|zuHause3>what does curl do?
10:28<Prof_Frink>groks URLs
10:28<Prof_Frink>essentially, wget to stdout
10:29<TrueBrain>I use wget -O /dev/stdout -q
10:31<Prof_Frink>curl is easier to remember
10:33<TrueBrain>Wolf01: you got it to work?
10:34<TrueBrain>hmm, the 'Random' fix isn't in the patch? Odd..
10:34<TrueBrain>how did I solve it.. can't remember..
10:34<TrueBrain>maybe I just disabled it in the header-file
10:34<TrueBrain>I suggest you to try that :p
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10:46<TrueBrain>I found back the patch I based some of my WinCE work on, and noticed I did almost everything in it... it suprised me :)
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11:51<kyevan>what files from TTD /can/ openttd use?
11:51<kyevan>(It needs the GRFs and, and can use the .gm files - are there any others?)
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12:01<paul_>the origional scenarios can be used too
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12:23<kyevan>Oh, cool
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12:23[~]kyevan 's building emself a package of just the files used by ottd, to speed up installing nightlies and such
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12:25<Rubidium>in the nightlies is *very* simple, just place it in ~/.openttd/ or "my documents"/OpenTTD
12:26<Rubidium>no need to copy them into the directory where you extracted the nightlies
12:27<Sacro>arch has my nice openttd-svn pkgbuild
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12:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10867 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (newgrf_fsmports.cpp newgrf_fsmports.h): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: SYST class needed to be loaded to the specific class 31 to avoid disturbing list sequences.
12:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10868 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (seaplaneport.grf sprites/seaplaneport.nfo): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: seaplaneport.grf missing new method of availability testing.
12:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10869 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/sprites/seaplaneport.nfo: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: WARNING WARNING critical system error here... fixed.
12:39<hylje>time to fix the fixthis stuff
12:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10870 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/sprites/seaplaneport.nfo: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: removed unused Action02 entry.
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12:52<kyevan>Rubidium: Really, the nightlies will read all files from userdir now?
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13:03<valhallasw>"Fix: WARNING WARNING critical system error here... fixed." => i.e. we now just get an Assertion Failed (system.error)? :P
13:09<hylje>i cant seem to think around FixThis
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13:12<hylje>i'll just give up the fanciness and make them glorified comments .P
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13:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10871 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/station_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Codechange: do not pay for clearing water tiles when placing watery tile on them anyway.
13:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10872 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (98 files in 10 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r10765:10871.
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15:15<kyevan>cp *.ss0 ~/.openttd/scenarios/ will give me all the scenarios from TTD in open, right?
15:16<kyevan>(being run where all the scenarios from ttd are stored, of course >_>)
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15:42<hylje>hmm how do i pull stuff from git in practice
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15:53<aneb>Please join FSWH OTTD Server in the server list, and thanks!
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15:55<Wezz6400>aneb: don't come in here just to spam >:(
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16:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10873 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_fsmports.h openttd.cpp station_cmd.cpp): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: layouts and layout_masks had one level of pointer indirection too much.
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16:32<Ammller>hmm, possible, there is bug for giving money?
16:32<Ammller>I like to give another player money, he has nothing and max loan
16:32<Ammller>I have too much
16:33<@Bjarni>what is the problem?
16:33<Ammller>but if I like to give him money, the msg appears, that I can't loaned money give away
16:35<Ammller>If someone has no is going to bankrupt
16:35<Ammller>not possible to solve him with giving money?
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16:41<@Bjarni>you need to repay your own loan first
16:42<@Bjarni>damn, I just got a threat from Muncht :(
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16:43<Ammller>he left now, mom
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16:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10874 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/station_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Codechange: remove the old airport remnants from the building/destruction commands.
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16:51<Ammller>I click to beggar and send money
16:51<Ammller>and after that, the screen
16:51<TrueBrain>Ammller: give less money
16:52<Ammller>ah, you mean more
16:52<@peter1138>no, less
16:52<Ammller>I also tried with one pound
16:52|-|[peter1138] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.2 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | mom is not an appropriate abbreviation for moment
16:52<Ammller>but now I konw the problem
16:53<TrueBrain>nice peter1138 :)
16:53<Ammller>the max you can give is 20 000 000
16:53<Ammller>and he has more than that
16:53<TrueBrain>Ammller: something like that.. and there is a bug that gives the wrong error when going over it
16:54<Ammller>I gave him already 100 000 000
16:54<Ammller>and he built stupid
16:54<Ammller>(btw, inflation is on)
16:54<TrueBrain>hmm, I should continue my head-to-head patch..
16:54<TrueBrain>such a nice way to play one-on-one
16:56<Ammller>is the max value you can give adjustable?
16:57<TrueBrain>I believe it is an overflow of some kind
16:57<TrueBrain>dunno, someone needs to look at it
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16:57<TrueBrain>did you clamp it? (I assume so seeing your reaction ;))
16:57<TrueBrain>then only the error message is wrong :)
16:57<Rubidium>it has been clamped for a long time
16:58<TrueBrain>so you did good :) Last time I checked (and wrote) it, it wasn't :p
17:01<TrueBrain>ah, the 20M is hardcoded :p
17:01<Ammller>with inflation?
17:02<Ammller>why did you hardcode such thing?
17:02<TrueBrain>I really don't know
17:02<Ammller>no comment there?
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17:03<TrueBrain>I guess it was estimated as enough back then
17:03<+glx>but you can send it multiple times
17:03<Ammller>not if he has borrowed more than 20
17:03<TrueBrain>with a very high inflation that is a real bitch :)
17:03<TrueBrain>Ammller: that isn't any problem
17:04<Rubidium>nah, it's different... 20 million * max currency multiplier is probably about 2^31 I guess
17:04<Ammller>I already play with pounds
17:04<TrueBrain>Rubidium: good point
17:04<TrueBrain>maybe we should send it as int64 :p
17:05<Rubidium>TrueBrain: not send it as int64
17:05<Rubidium>the currency is printed on the console when transferred
17:05<TrueBrain>solved :)
17:05<Rubidium>that's not int64 compatible
17:05<TrueBrain>but I see your point
17:06<TrueBrain>I currently more wonder why sometimes you get that LOAN error
17:06<Rubidium>%l ;) as if that is cross-platform compatible ;)
17:06<TrueBrain>hehe, totally not
17:06<TrueBrain>if > 2^31, print: 2^31+
17:07<Rubidium>on the other hand the currency multiplier isn't taken into account for the function that tells how much money has been transferred
17:07<TrueBrain>but printing fails
17:07<Rubidium>it just sends the amount in pounds over the chat
17:08<TrueBrain>'p->player_money - p->current_loan' <- is this safe with the new Cost blabla?
17:08<Ammller>ok, just tried, beagger payed back 4 millions so he has less than 20 borrowed
17:08<Ammller>then I can give him money...
17:09<TrueBrain>Ammller: can you give me the savegame?
17:09<Ammller>ok, mom, make a save
17:09<TrueBrain>Ammller: sorry, I don't feel like finding a matching revision
17:09<Rubidium> SubtractMoneyFromPlayer(CommandCost(-amount.GetCost()));
17:09<Rubidium>that is still negative for the player
17:09<Rubidium>ergo... it fails ;)
17:10<TrueBrain>Rubidium: so that means giving money reduces the maount of money on the player you give it to?
17:10<Rubidium>you "can't afford it" as the end balance is still negative
17:10<Rubidium>TrueBrain: no, you substract the negative of what you have been given
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17:10<Rubidium>got to love double negatives
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17:10<TrueBrain>I don't see the problem, but okay :p
17:12<Rubidium>hmm, looks like my hunch wasn't right :(
17:12<TrueBrain>ah, any error in that function results in the loan error
17:13<TrueBrain>which is kind of wrong if you ask me ;)
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17:15<Rubidium>it isn't really wrong, as the cases that the command returns an error are cases where the preconditions of the command are not met
17:15<TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is just fine; what is wrong that the error says: your loan is too high
17:15<TrueBrain>while in fact it can even be that you try to send a negative value
17:15<TrueBrain>(or a 0 value)
17:16<Rubidium>then the function that is issueing the command is wrong
17:16<Rubidium>not the command itself
17:16<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I never said who to blaim ;)
17:16<TrueBrain>DoCommandP(0, money_c, id, CcGiveMoney, CMD_GIVE_MONEY | CMD_MSG(STR_INSUFFICIENT_FUNDS));
17:16<Rubidium>three lines up, change the 0 to 1
17:16<Ammller>I used cooper grf pack
17:17<TrueBrain>Rubidium: indeed :p
17:17<TrueBrain>bah, then I first need to get thatone...
17:17<Ammller> <-- error msg
17:17<TrueBrain>don't feel like it :p
17:18<Ammller>TrueBrain: you don't need the grfs for this do you?
17:18<TrueBrain>yup, Disconnecting Train!
17:18<TrueBrain>happens :)
17:19<TrueBrain>anyway, Ammller, I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to give him 1 pound even if he has a loan of 20M+
17:19<TrueBrain>hmm, let's use a safe value: 10 pounds
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17:20<Rubidium>maybe _current_player != _local_player in main_gui at the place where the command is issued?
17:20<Tekky4347>Hi, is it documented anywhere what requirements patches must fulfill in order to be multiplayer-compatible?
17:21<Rubidium>anyway, I'm again trying to go to bed
17:21<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I considered that, but I doubt _current_player is wrong..
17:21<TrueBrain>we will need to check :)
17:21<TrueBrain>Rubidium: night :)
17:21<Ammller>TrueBrain: Because he is in dept with more than 20millions
17:21<TrueBrain>Ammller: there is no real check for that
17:21<TrueBrain>unless indeed _current_player is wrong
17:21<TrueBrain>which would be bad anyway :p
17:22<TrueBrain>Tekky4347: hehe, I think that can't be documented
17:22<TrueBrain>there are some basic things, like no Random() in CMD_s
17:22<TrueBrain>(in the test-round of the CMD_s that is)
17:22<TrueBrain>no InteractiveRandom()s in game-logic
17:22<TrueBrain>no buffer overflows
17:22<TrueBrain>no local caches
17:22<Tekky4347>I want to develop several single-player patches and need to know what I must take into account for them to be also multiplayer-compatible.
17:22<TrueBrain>just the usual :p
17:23<Rubidium>cache == cache.trash().rebuild()
17:23<TrueBrain>those things pretty much covers it
17:23<TrueBrain>Rubidium: GO TO BED!
17:23<Tekky4347>thx for the information, TrueBrain.
17:23<TrueBrain>hop hop :p
17:23<Rubidium>paardje in galop?
17:23<TrueBrain>Tekky4347: and always feel free to ask any of us developers to check for that specificly :)
17:23<TrueBrain> @kick Rubidium GA NAAR BED
17:24<TrueBrain>I just watched Blood Diamond, now going to play Just Cause
17:24<TrueBrain>the irony :)
17:25<Ammller>revision is 10851
17:25<Ammller>the companies has no pws
17:25<Ammller>you can join both
17:25<Ammller>so you see it self
17:26<TrueBrain>Ammller: it is not that I don't believe you, it is that the code suggest it should not work like that; so it needs a deep look at it, with a lot of prints of variables and shit
17:26<TrueBrain>don't feel like that tonight :)
17:26<Ammller>oh, ok
17:27<Tekky4347>Thx. TrueBrain. By the way, why should no Random() be called in CMD_s? Are these CMD_* funtions only used by the client issuing the command, so that only one client would call Random() and the other clients won't, thus causing the state of the random number generator to desync? Is that the reason?
17:27<Ammller>but I will keep the save
17:27<TrueBrain>Ammller: please do :)
17:27<TrueBrain>Tekky4347: exactly right :)
17:27<Ammller>its not 9, its autosave8.sav
17:27<TrueBrain>that is, there are 2 types of calls to CMD_s
17:27<Tekky4347>ah, good guess :)
17:27<TrueBrain>first, the test-round, second, the do-round
17:27<TrueBrain>the do-round, and specificly the DC_EXEC block, can contain CMD_s in theory
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17:27<TrueBrain>the test-round never can
17:28<TrueBrain>as if it fails, it is only executed locally on the client
17:28<Tekky4347>ah, thx.
17:31<Tekky4347>TrueBrain: YAPF uses local caches, doesn't it, for caching the track segments? Still, it is multiplayer-compatible? Is this because YAPF ensures that the local caches are always identical on all clients?
17:33<TrueBrain>I believe it does what someone who just went to sleep said: it trashes the cache upon client join
17:34<TrueBrain>(on all clients)
17:34<TrueBrain>therefor the game-state on all clients stay the same
17:34<TrueBrain>of course this tempts to hackish code
17:34<TrueBrain>so rather avoid it where possible :)
17:34<Tekky4347>Ah, thx.
17:35<Eddi|zuHause2>there was a time where it trashed the cache on every tick, because of multiplayer
17:36<Tekky4347>that's the point in having a cache, then, if it is trashed 72 times per second?
17:36<Eddi|zuHause2>it can still be used during the same tick
17:37<Eddi|zuHause2>if 2 trains go through similar routes (e.g. big mainline)
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17:39<Eddi|zuHause2>especially on big networks that is quite often, because it does not only cache the segments on the route that it actually took, but also all segments that it considered but then discarded
17:39<Tekky4347>The cache I am planning on generating with two of my patches will both be very large :) Therefore, I cannot trash them on every tick...
17:39<Tekky4347>But I guess it should be acceptable to only trash it on every new client join.
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>no, you have to either store them, or trash them on client connect... the "every tick" version was just an immediate action, until the "on join" version could be properly implemented
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20:38<kyevan>You know, I'm surprised noone's rewritten the pathfinder in haskell. The sort of people wh o like writing pathfinders, tend to like haskell, in my experience.
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20:40<Eddi|zuHause3>the thing is, that people who like haskell tend to not usually write "useful" programs :p
20:40<kyevan>And GHC and Chris Sawyer come from the same place!
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20:41<Eddi|zuHause3>(note that i am a person who likes haskell) :p
20:41<kyevan>Eddi|zuHause3: Heh, I know a few people who write 'useful' stuff in haskell :P
20:41[~]kyevan tries it periodicly, and always gets stuck on monads
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 13 00:00:40 2007