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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-14

---Logopened Tue Aug 14 00:00:26 2007
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02:26<blathijs>Noldo: I still have your expenses type patch open in my browser, but I can't seem to find the time to look at it right now :-)
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03:16<phryx>ok something is VERY wrong here. :S
03:16<phryx>anyone that can cut and paste my quit?
03:17<Wolf01>[09:52:49] * Quits: phryx ( (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:18<phryx>noone else on my server quitted. :S
03:18<Wolf01>is an irc trouble
03:18<phryx>what is?
03:19<Wolf01>i else get most of the times "software caused connection abort"
03:19<Wolf01>with no apparent reaseons
03:19<phryx>well, it happened on all the networks i was connected to, and i have 5 shellusers on my machine atm and none of them quitted
03:19<phryx>just my account was affected
03:19<phryx>thats what was odd. :S
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04:06<MeusH>hey Wolf01 :)
04:06<Wolf01>hi MeusH
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04:23<SmatZ>why the channel's topic starts with "0.5.2 ..." ?
04:23<alex_>version number of stable
04:23<SmatZ>ah ... thanks
04:24[~]SmatZ feels a bit dumb now :-x
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05:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10886 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt network/network_gui.cpp settings.cpp):
05:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: modify the "start network server" GUI so it can actually handle
05:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: more than 10 clients/companies/spectators in a nice way, i.e. without making a
05:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: combobox with 100 players and add 90 new strings to be able to do so.
05:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10887 /trunk/src/lang/ (38 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove the strings that were removed from english.txt in r10886.
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06:06<Nameeater>'mo' is tho
06:10<Nameeater>nothing :)
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06:15<@peter1138>Nameeater: yes
06:16<@peter1138>it is
06:17<Nameeater>I use it all the time
06:17<@peter1138>in a mo
06:17<Nameeater>only a genius would use 'mom' tho hah :)
06:17<@peter1138>but people using "mom" by itself on a line bug me
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06:18|-|[peter1138] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.2 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | mom is not an appropriate abbreviation for moment, but mo is.
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06:21<Nameeater>yea, its an extra character off an acceptable abbreviation
06:23<Nameeater>I'm guessing its ok to ask in here, do you really get more money if you transport coal further?
06:24<Ammler>Ask yourself, why not?
06:24<@peter1138>yes, you do
06:25<Nameeater>because like all the other goods it goes downwards on the cargo payment chart
06:26<Nameeater>mind you, I think just re-reading that graph I may have been understanding it wrong
06:26<@peter1138>the graph is constant distance
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07:09<SmatZ>Rubidium: seems latest commit broke build for me...
07:09<SmatZ> /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp:50: error: size of array 'a' is negative
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07:09<Rubidium>the wonders of 64 bits ;)
07:10<Rubidium>does it help when you move line 40 before the two pointers in the struct in network_gui.cpp?
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07:11<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes, it helps
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07:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10888 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r10886): 64 bits alignment made a struct too big.
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08:59<SmatZ>the behaviour of the always_build_infrastructure patch seems a bit strange for me...
09:01<SmatZ>when I have open windows with build tools
09:01<SmatZ>i can build rail/airports
09:01<SmatZ>I though it works in multiplayer, that when this patch is enabled, nobody can build rail
09:01<SmatZ>but it just disables some buttons in the menu
09:02<SmatZ>so I am a bit confused :)
09:05<Rubidium>some people were 'annoyed' by the fact that the infrastructure building windows were available when they could not build vehicles for that type of transport (when for example road vehicles are disabled)
09:05<Rubidium>so you can choose whether you want those buttons to be disabled/greyed when you can't build the vehicles
09:06<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes ... I just expected different behaviour, thanks for explanation
09:06<Rubidium>*but* when you already have a vehicle of the type that you may not build (anymore), you can still build that infrastructure
09:07<SmatZ>the only thing you cannot do, is to Remove (not Demolish) railroad track when you have some
09:07<SmatZ>that check would be expensive...
09:08<Rubidium>by the way, the GUI description of the patch is more clear as it's a little longer
09:09<SmatZ>is it in the source code?
09:09<SmatZ>the description
09:10<Rubidium>technically it is
09:11<SmatZ>btw - I can build (with a modified client) tramway track, even when it is grayed out for others ... no matter how the patch is set
09:11<SmatZ>it doesn't cause desync
09:11<Maedhros>it only affects the gui, afaik
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09:12<helpttd>you can help me?
09:12<Sacro>can i/
09:13<helpttd>ok i talk english
09:13<helpttd>my probles is
09:13<helpttd>i cant see any vehicles
09:13<Sacro>According to Wikipedia 10.6M people are Portuguese
09:13<helpttd>so i cant buy
09:13<Sacro>what year is the game set to?
09:14<helpttd>oh no
09:14<helpttd>my brother changed option
09:14<helpttd>i go see
09:14<Priski>there is no actual initial, game keeps the last used date
09:14<Priski>unless you play it first time
09:15<SmatZ>yes, the tramtrk.grf file is present, but everybody has it disabled in the menu, so nobody can build it ... maybe it should be checked, like nobody can build monorail before it is available - I can build (electrified) tramway track in 1900
09:15<Rubidium>helpttd: ever heard of NewGRF?
09:16<Rubidium>SmatZ: you can modify your client to build monorail in 1900
09:16<Rubidium>helpttd: the standard vehicles only start to appear from 1920
09:16<helpttd>nothing in NewGRF
09:16<SmatZ>Rubidium: really? I tried it, but it desynced
09:16<Rubidium>and in some climates even later
09:17<helpttd>OF THE GAME
09:18<@peter1138>ooh, cruise control
09:18<Rubidium>SmatZ: you're right; there's some hidden check somewhere
09:18<SmatZ>helpttd: you can choose the year while generating the game or in the scenario editor ... or using cheats, Ctrl+Alt+C
09:19<Rubidium>though I don't see a real problem in being able to build tram tracks when you don't have trams (yet)
09:19<Priski>helpttd, ctrl+alt+C or ctr+shift+c ingame, bring up cheats menu
09:19<helpttd>now i see
09:19<Priski>there you can change date ingame
09:19<helpttd>its defined for 1500
09:19<Rubidium>they're technically the same as normal road, which you can always build
09:19<hylje>no! fix it!
09:20<hylje>i dont care if it is feasible or not
09:20<hylje>but fix it
09:20<Priski>no wonder you dont see trains, they were invented 430 years later ;)
09:20<@Belugas>bring us a patch, we'll see
09:20<Priski>medieval ottd :D
09:20<Priski>bring cargo with horse wagons
09:20<hylje>prehistoric ttd
09:20<hylje>or, rather, historic ttd
09:20<Priski>would that be nice idea for new features :D
09:21<hylje>newgrf can do that
09:21<hylje>unless its years are 1900-origin
09:21<Priski>yeah but is there such newgrf anywhere?
09:21<hylje>i doubt
09:21<Priski>me too
09:21<hylje>the ideas have been thrown
09:22<helpttd>year 1900
09:22<Maedhros>please stop abusing your capslock key
09:22<Maedhros>and no, you probably won't see any until 1940
09:23<helpttd>sorry caps lock
09:23<helpttd>1 more question: i cant modify the End Of Game...
09:23<helpttd>its defined for 2050
09:23<helpttd>i cant modify it
09:24<+glx>it's only for network games
09:24<+glx>for single player it's fixed
09:24<helpttd>so the game will not end at this date?
09:24<Priski>thats because game keeps scoreboard for games
09:25<helpttd>the game will not end at this date?
09:25<+glx>it will show you the score
09:25<+glx>but you can continue to play after
09:25<Priski>game "ends" at 1.1.2051 where score is get and but in hiscore list, but you can keep playing forever after that
09:25<helpttd>much better
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09:26<Priski>sometimes i start my single player games in 2051, since i hate upgrading huge networks from rail->monorail or maglev
09:27<@Belugas>hylje: newgrf cannot define introduction date lower then 1920. There is a thread about that on the forum about a possible fix/hack but it's not done yet.
09:27<Rubidium>Belugas: they can...
09:27<Priski>i have waited for moment when that could do with fev clics but I can imagine that such feature would be hard to make "properly"
09:28<Maedhros>Belugas: long format introduction dates :)
09:28<Rubidium> <- that one
09:28<Ailure>ah yeah gotta love tha corny image someone made of a horse-driven wagon somewhere
09:29<Ailure>some 19th century trains would be intresting to play with though
09:29<Rubidium>Ailure: serbian narrow gauge
09:30<Ailure>guess I should check it out
09:30<Ailure>I actually kinda ignored all narrow gauge sets for now, but maybe I should check them out.
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09:32<@Belugas>Rubidium true. hylje, my apologies
09:32<@Belugas>but houses do not have it!
09:32<@Belugas>it's still based on standard 1920
09:32<@Belugas>hey RichK67
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09:35<Ailure>if Chris Sawyer designed Unix
09:35<Ailure>zero time would be Januari 1, 1920
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09:36<Xintron>Wiee, just sold my moped. Gave 6000swedish crowns for it and sold it for 7000 :)
09:36<Priski>times with 8 bytes would be enough
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09:37<Ailure>heh nice deal
09:37<Priski>if i remember correctly current timestamp is 4bytes (32bits) and when it starts 1970 it ends somewhere 2030
09:37<RichK67>heya skidd13!
09:38<Ailure>especially wen you consider how stuff usually decreases in value over time
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09:39<Priski>4.29 billion seconds...
09:39<Priski>talking about 32bits, when does ipv6 comes to at larger use
09:40<Priski>nothing seems to be going forward on that issue
09:40<skidd13>Hi RichK67
09:40<Ailure>most newer hardware and OS's supports it
09:41<Ailure>but there's no push for it from the political side or anything
09:41<Priski>Ailure, yeah but ipv4 are running out, but natting technologies help a lot
09:41<helpttd>other question...
09:41<Ailure>NAT is a pain in the ass
09:41<SmatZ>Priski: what does ipv4 and 32bit time have in common?
09:41<Priski>but still machines that needs internet connection continues to rise
09:41<helpttd>i have a aeroport
09:42<Ailure>NAT was only made to solve some problems of ipv4
09:42<RichK67>skidd13: do you know how to put together a palette sprite?
09:42<Priski>SmatZ, ipv4 is 32bit
09:42<helpttd>how i put the helicopter and other
09:42<Priski>SmatZ, it can contain only 4.29 billion different ip:s
09:42<skidd13>RichK67: ??
09:43<SmatZ>Priski: well.. I just don't understand the connection between ipv4 and time measurement... the only connection is that both uses 32bits, okay :)
09:43<RichK67>i want a green version of the red/blue selection sprite palette, but dont know what to change (sprite 772 of trg1r.grf)
09:43<SmatZ>helpttd: click on the hangar and build some
09:44<Priski>SmatZ, i know it's far fetch thing but my own hyperactive brains runs with far fetch things all times
09:44<skidd13>RichK67: give me 10 min. I need to have to have coffee first.
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09:44<Priski>SmatZ, and since I am a programmer I view all things bit differently than commoners...
09:45<Priski>a nerd you would maybe say...
09:45<SmatZ>Priski: 2^32 seconds ~ 136 years
09:45<Priski>"welcome to the MATRIX"
09:45<SmatZ>hmm I though you were talking about some 32b timestamp in the ipv4 header I didn't know about
09:47<Priski>SmatZ, yeah i did notice that but i did not know why does so many places say that it "runs out" at 2030, or maybe it was counted from 1900 actually...
09:48<RichK67>1/1/1900 was base for several opsys
09:49<Priski>most things that I say are factually unaccurate or completely incorrect
09:49<Priski>so dont take me too seriously :)
09:49<SmatZ>Priski: because you are a programmer? :-)
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09:51<Priski>SmatZ, i'm not sure why, i tend to think things too fast and I can only consentrate only when i really am intrested...
09:52<Priski>SmatZ, as way i see it, I am not what i tend to tell people, peole are what they do, not what they say...
09:52<SmatZ>that's true
09:53<Priski>maybe i think too "out-of-box" like some people has said to me, so out that i dont even see the box anymore...
09:54<Rubidium>the (unix) timestamp is a 32 bits signed integer (AFAIK)
09:54<Rubidium>and the unix wrap is in January of 2038
09:54<DaleStan>RichK67: Does contain the information you need?
09:54<Rubidium>136/2 + 1970 = 2038
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09:57<Priski>and we have someone that says thing accurately and factually... thank you :)
09:57<RichK67>DaleStan: not really... i read it, but in the grfcodec decodes, it sometimes runs together some of the values as their ascii equivalent string, and it gets *really* hard to read them
09:58<DaleStan>renum can fix that if you turn the beautifier on, or decode with -t, and grfcodec will write everything in hex.
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10:00<RichK67>ok, cool... ill run nforenum on it... i want to have the overlay placement mask for land/water showing as green/blue... it would be cool :)
10:01<DaleStan>You do have to explicitly turn the beautifier on, either with -b+ (globally) or with the //@@BEAUTIFY commands.
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10:09<SmatZ> -> about the unix time
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10:33<skidd13>RichK67: Sorry I dissappeard so fast (real life). Do you still need this recolor sprite?
10:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10889 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: Colour of highlight for FSMs with placement masks shows Green for land tiles, and Blue for water tiles.
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12:05<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10890 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1125]: removing road with the road removal tool would also work with a negative bank account, making the bank account even more negative than it was.
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12:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10891 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
12:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Added ramp and 2 jetties to seaplaneport.grf. (Thanks to 0004tom).
12:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Change: modified movement to move around jetties, and FSM for better block handling.
12:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Change: Modified prop 20 (temporarily) to allow all small aircraft, for testing.
12:20<Eddi|zuHause2> <- that is a true WTF! :p
12:20<Sionide>must not get sucked into qdb.... -_-
12:21<Sionide>got... other.. stuff to do... arrrggghhh
12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>the dark side it is :p
12:21<Sionide>heh funny quote
12:21<Sionide>but it's not dated
12:22<Eddi|zuHause2>but it's quite new
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12:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10892 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1127]: trains would not get flooded when they are at the lower part of a tile that would become a coast tile after flooding. Patch by frosch.
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14:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10893 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/airport_gui.cpp:
14:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Ensure coloured & masked selections disabled on exit of airport_gui.
14:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix: If no airport is selectable on change of airport class, ensure highlight is only a 1x1 square.
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15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: miham * r10894 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-08-14 22:08:16
15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: catalan - 5 fixed, 1 changed by arnaullv (6)
15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 5 fixed, 1 changed by Hadez (6)
15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 5 fixed, 1 changed by habell (6)
15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 5 fixed, 1 changed by glx (6)
15:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 5 fixed, 1 changed by miham (6)
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15:17<ln->back from catalonia [x]
15:19<hylje>delivered [ ]
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16:25<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10895 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Only visually leave the hangar if the aircraft can successfully move to its chosen destination. Enables the decision to proceed to based on block reservations in the hangar commands, not in code.
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16:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10896 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (seaplaneport.grf sprites/seaplaneport.nfo):
16:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Redesign of seaplaneport.grf to allow access to terminal 1 even when runway is in use.
16:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Changes can also be ported to Small Airport.
16:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10897 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/newgrf.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Cleanup: Removed superfluous comments.
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16:58<aneb> # any thoughts about this?
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17:02<Wezz6400>not supporting ftp is rediculous if you ask me
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>"Not setting a password on your company anytime before you disconnect from the server." <- again, people should rather create passwords on creating the company
17:07<Ameecher>is peter1138 actually active in this channel?
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>rather unlikely at this hour... although not impossible
17:07<Wezz6400>I've seen him active on this channel, could be a couple of days ago though
17:07<Ameecher>Eddi|zuHause, has he been today?
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>@seen peter1138
17:07<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 49 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <peter1138> ooh, cruise control
17:08<Ameecher>thank you
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17:27<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10898 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (7 files in 4 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Codechange: replace GetAirport and GetValidAiports by GetAvailableAirports which gives a list of available airports that (primarily) AIs can iterate over.
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17:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10899 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/fsmblockmap.h: [NewGRF_ports] -Add: Added BlockCopy function to fsmblockmap.h.
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17:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10900 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/realworldairports.grf:
17:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: LaGuardia now only releases the taxi-runway crossing on arrival at the next location. This prevents the near-misses... I hope.
17:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Add: San Francisco is buildable, but not finished state machine. Will declare as Feature when ready for beta testing.
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>"i hope" does not sound particularly convincing :p
18:00<RichK67>well... im pretty sure it does, but if someone finds one elsewhere....
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18:06<Digitalfox>Hum, i want to try newports branch, but still have the same problem, the crash even after deleting opntitle.dat has some people told..
18:06<RichK67>its a warning not a crash
18:06<RichK67>about airports.grf
18:06<RichK67>ignore it and continue
18:06<Digitalfox>no rich it crashes after the warning
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>Digitalfox: then you have another opentitle.dat (e.g. in ~/.openttd)
18:07<RichK67>opntitle.dat will be found somewhere on your system then
18:07<RichK67>ottd does quite a clever search for it
18:07<Digitalfox>so if i have c:\games\pc\openttd it will look even in c:\games ?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>probably not, but for example in documents&settings
18:13<Digitalfox>i see
18:13<Digitalfox>so and can i block that search?
18:14<Digitalfox>because i have more directorys with openttd games
18:14<+glx>it searchs in current dir, document&settings and "install" dir
18:14<+glx>it doesn't search in others openttd dirs
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>there is probably a configure option that disables that search
18:16<RichK67>ive got about 25 installations, and it only looks in my current one
18:16<+glx>run "openttd -d misc4" to see where it searchs
18:17<+glx>anyway for me it doesn't crashes, it just fails to load the intro game
18:17<Digitalfox>Well i'm compiling the last version and will try again
18:18<Digitalfox>Would it be possible to add a command to disable hash checking?
18:18<+glx>I use a --enable-debug=3 build
18:19<+glx>hash checking is not the problem I think
18:19<RichK67>damn... i need to do some housecleaning... 30 copies ... 20 of svns!
18:20<RichK67>nope, the hash check is just a warning... it should be fine
18:21<RichK67>opntitle.dat is an expected catastrophic fail
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>Digitalfox: you can just calculate the md5 yourself, and replace it in the code...
18:22<Digitalfox>I could if i did know how ;)
18:22<RichK67>except im still changing airports.grf, so it will be... err... dynamic ;)
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>Digitalfox: probably in src/table/files.h
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18:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10901 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Aircraft that failed to exit the hangar should unreserve any terminal reservations they made.
18:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10902 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Updated ramp & jetty graphics (thanks to Skidd13). Planes wont exit hangar until entering aircraft has gone in.
18:43<Digitalfox>Well using the command glx gave me, it says in portuguese it something like Fail to open game, impossibility to read file!
18:44<+glx>yes I get the same message
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18:44<Digitalfox>and it closes :(
18:45<+glx>and if you run openttd -g ?
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18:47<Digitalfox>glx it opens the game :)
18:53<+glx>nice I just tried release build and it crashes
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18:54<RichK67>it wont load an old game with better than a city airport
18:55<+glx>but I'm trying to find why debug build doesn't crash
18:56<RichK67>what is location it gives in crash?
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18:56<+glx>openttd.exe caused an Access Violation at location 77c0554a in module msvcrt.dll Reading from location 00000008.
18:56<+glx>and as it is a release build, they are no symbols
18:56<+glx>*there are
18:57<RichK67>hmm.... msvcrt.dll ... had that with other apps
18:58<Digitalfox>msvcrt.dll, yes that was the error it gave before :)
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19:00<+glx>hmm may be caused by longjmp
19:09<Digitalfox>good night
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>knowing Sacro, that is probably a porn link :p
19:45<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: err no
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>the comments are great :p
19:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r10903 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add support for variable 44 of Variational Action 2 for Industries
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20:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r10904 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp:
20:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix: When using a temporary industry, make sure you do not clear some unreachable tiles upon its destruction.
20:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: do not perform something that by all means will not change. A zero offset is really meaningless...
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21:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r10905 /3rdparty/squirrel/sqstdlib/sqstdrex.cpp: [Squirrel] -Fix (r9516): incorrect usage of throw
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23:11[~]Hendikins pads in, one step closer to being a CityRail slave
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 15 00:00:59 2007