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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-17

---Logopened Fri Aug 17 00:00:12 2007
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01:11<manveru>is there some way to just upgrade rails other than blow everything up and build it again?
01:23<XeryusTC>use the convert tool
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01:32<manveru>convert tool...
01:33<manveru>omfg, i never saw that!
01:33[~]manveru hugs TTD once again...
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03:03<Wolf01>:O i smell newindustries
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03:55<manveru>i think i have a kind of bug here...
03:55<TrueBrain>squash it!
03:56<manveru>it shows that i have 65533 times the 'kriby paul tank'
03:58<TrueBrain> ;)
04:01<manveru>i think i may have the cause...
04:01<valhallasw>window left open after replacement of all the trains?
04:01<manveru>since i have no usual trains anymore, just electrical ones
04:02<manveru>valhallasw: no
04:02<manveru>they got replaced over time...
04:02<valhallasw>I mean; did you leave the replacement window open while the trains got replaced?
04:03<manveru>any trains or all trains?
04:03<valhallasw>the kirbies
04:03<manveru>i only had the window open once to issue the replacement and then openend again long after they were replaced
04:03<valhallasw>no idea then -_-
04:03[~]valhallasw gone
04:04<TrueBrain>it counts -2 kirbies :p
04:04<TrueBrain>lol, I dunno
04:04<TrueBrain>it just sounds funny
04:04<manveru>oh well, doesn't matter :)
04:04<manveru>it just looks a bit odd
04:04<TrueBrain>manveru: so file a bug-report
04:04<TrueBrain>attach savegame
04:05<manveru>aye sir
04:05<TrueBrain>peter1138: people with too much time on their hands
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04:13<manveru>TrueBrain: that good?
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05:13<phalax>Hi All!!!
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05:14<phalax>Is there any progress on native support??
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05:16|-|Tino|Home changed nick to TinoM
05:22<phalax>i only have the dos version of ttd. And there is a thread on the forum about extracting And there was talk about making OpenTTD native support for
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05:30<@Bjarni>Maedhros: are you sure the cloning money issue is fixed. I remember a fix being committed and then reverted because it caused asserts once in a while
05:33<Maedhros>Bjarni: yes, it took a couple of tries, but it was fixed in the end
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07:07<Wolf01>yes hello
07:07<ashaw>i am new and want to join
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause2>you want to join my movement for an islamic revolution? great :)
07:09<ashaw>no i want to paly open ttd
07:10<Wolf01>click the multiplayer button and find your favourite server
07:10<Eddi|zuHause2>sad, i already got excited :(
07:10<ashaw>i want to play with this group
07:10<ashaw>i need to alliterate
07:11<Noldo>we mostly idle and sometimes some of us code something
07:12<ashaw>this is not openttdcoop
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07:28<manveru>the svn version isn't compatible with any current server?
07:29<+glx>it is compatible with server of the same revision
07:29<manveru>hehe... my game is running now since 2 days nonstop...
07:30<manveru>should try some larger map now that i got used to TTD again
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08:32<ejoj>In a tropic game, what is a suitable spot to place a water tower? cause I can't find a place to build it
08:32<+glx>on a house
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08:34<ejoj>thanks glx, started to get frusturated now
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09:19<Nameeater>is it possible to make it so that if a station is full it will fill up the most full train firist?
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09:22<Nameeater>improved loading, nm
09:22<Noldo>looks quite interesting when 3 ais are building in the same area
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09:36<manveru>Noldo: 'interesting' as in 'modern art'?
09:37<+glx>natural disaster :)
09:38<Noldo>even one ai on a 64x64 map makes it look like the ground is alive
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10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: miham * r10927 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-08-17 17:54:48
10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 10 fixed by tucalipe (10)
10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 1 fixed by thetitan (1)
10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 99 changed by habell (99)
10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: estonian - 10 fixed, 2 changed by kristjans (12)
10:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 3 fixed by kerba (3)
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11:10<peter1139>what's my ripe lir login... :o
11:12<@Belugas>if i told you, you would not have quite a good login :)
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11:18<skidd13>how far is the work with the web based patch-styetm?
11:18<skidd13>:%s /styetm/system/g
11:21<@Belugas>what is used to determine the size of the varadjust in an variational action2? say for industry tile, type 81, var 44?
11:21<@Belugas>what web based patch system?
11:22<Prof_Frink>*the* web-based patchg system, of course
11:23<@Belugas>of course... where was my mind....
11:23<+glx>Belugas: I think type determine var size
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11:24<@Belugas>a byte then?
11:24<@Belugas>does not make sens
11:24<skidd13>Belugas: The system where patch dev's can upload their patches and will get comments from the devs. IIRC Truelight and hylje have been working on it.
11:25<+glx>Belugas: adjust->and_mask = grf_load_var(varsize, &buf);
11:25<hylje>skidd13: its quite complete, needs just refinement there and here
11:25<hylje>ive been kinda busy on life stuff among other things
11:25<+glx>same for add_val and divmod_val
11:26<@Belugas>thanks skidd13. it escaped me totally
11:26<@Belugas>reading, glx
11:26<+glx>in NewSpriteGroup
11:27<skidd13>hylje: I'd have had a patch for it :D. So I've to use the old FS thread (which allows no edits of the old posts :(
11:27<@Belugas>thanks glx
11:27<hylje>pt doesnt let one update comments either
11:28<skidd13>hylje: :( Even no patch update?
11:28<hylje>patches can be updated just fine
11:28<@Belugas>but i wanted to know how to interpret "<shift-num> <and-mask> [<add-val> <divide-val>/<modulo-val>]" this and that requires that the real size of it is indicated somewhere. I'm trying to decipher line 8205 of ECSWood
11:29<@Belugas>02 09 03 81 44 is understood, but i'm stuff in makking sens of the rest :S
11:29<@Belugas>- stuff +stucked
11:29<hylje>the one at isnt up-to-date
11:33<skidd13>hylje: I check if it works with a real patch :) either.
11:33<hylje>it should work just fine
11:35<skidd13>hylje: yup seems so. ;)
11:37<skidd13>hylje: It's not the latest version but you should describe the rating better. 1 (=good) 5 (=bad)
11:37<hylje>its already done
11:37<hylje>and the reason it's not updated is the server can't get git working
11:39<skidd13>hylje: And I can't update my patch :( It says I'm not the owner LOL
11:39<hylje>ill put that up, thanks
11:40<hylje>i havent encountered that, but i guess i dont have enough test cases :p
11:43<skidd13>hylje: And a nl2br would be cool for the comments.
11:44<hylje>thats linebreaks filter for you
11:52<Maedhros>Belugas: what's the rest of the line in ECSWood? (or have you worked it out / given up on it? ;)
11:53<@Belugas>it has been decoded, yes, thanks to glx :)
11:53<@Belugas> 8205 * 74 02 09
11:53<@Belugas> 03 81 44 //check variable animation frame-44-(lowest byte -81-) for setid 03
11:53<@Belugas> 00 FF //shift-num and AND with FF
11:53<@Belugas> 10 //10 ranges
11:53<@Belugas> 10 00 01 01 // <set ID - 10 00 -> 00 10> <min/max range = 01>
11:53<@Belugas> 11 00 02 02 // <set ID - 11 00 -> 00 11> <min/max range = 02>
11:53<@Belugas> 12 00 03 03 // <set ID - 12 00 -> 00 12> <min/max range = 03>
11:53<@Belugas> 13 00 04 04 // <set ID - 13 00 -> 00 13> <min/max range = 04>
11:53<@Belugas> 14 00 05 05 // <set ID - 14 00 -> 00 14> <min/max range = 05>
11:53<@Belugas> 15 00 06 06 // <set ID - 15 00 -> 00 15> <min/max range = 06>
11:54<+glx>[18:53:40] <@Belugas> 10 //10 ranges <-- use 0x10 or 16 :)
11:55<Maedhros>cool. i shall go back into hiding then :)
11:55<@Belugas> 16 00 07 07 // <set ID - 16 00 -> 00 16> <min/max range = 07>
11:55<@Belugas> 17 00 08 08 // <set ID - 17 00 -> 00 17> <min/max range = 08>
11:55<@Belugas> 52 00 4B 4B // <set ID - 52 00 -> 00 52> <min/max range = 4B>
11:55<@Belugas> 53 00 4C 4C // <set ID - 53 00 -> 00 53> <min/max range = 4C>
11:55<@Belugas> 54 00 4D 4D // <set ID - 54 00 -> 00 54> <min/max range = 4D>
11:55<@Belugas> 55 00 4E 4E // <set ID - 55 00 -> 00 55> <min/max range = 4E>
11:55<@Belugas> 56 00 4F 4F // <set ID - 56 00 -> 00 56> <min/max range = 4F>
11:55<@Belugas> 57 00 50 50 // <set ID - 57 00 -> 00 57> <min/max range = 50>
11:55<@Belugas> 58 00 51 51 // <set ID - 58 00 -> 00 58> <min/max range = 51>
11:55<@Belugas> 59 00 52 52 // <set ID - 59 00 -> 00 59> <min/max range = 52>
11:57<@Belugas> 03 00 //default setid
11:57<Eddi|zuHause2>i thought we had for that stuff...
11:57<@Belugas>and the other ones are following the same pattern
11:57<@Belugas>of course :)
11:57<@Belugas>but since it is direct transcription, 0x10 is implicit in my mind :)
11:57<@Belugas>it is about the Printing Work of ECSWood. there is a big problem in its animation
11:57<@Belugas>good higing then :)
11:57<@Belugas>i have a small mind :)
11:58<@Belugas>but hey, this is developpement stuff :)
11:58<@Belugas>at least, now, you do know i still work on newindustries!
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>it could still be vaporware :)
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13:20<Wolf01>does anybody knows about the existence of a c++ class which can return a conversion from every kind of type to a string and the possibility to concatenate like the java String class?
13:23<DaleStan>Wolf01: std::stringstream will do conversions, then use the .str() function to get a std::string, which can be concatenated with other std::strings and C strings. (#include <sstream> ; #include <string>)
13:24<DaleStan>stringstream only works if there's an insertion operator (operator <<) defined for the type being converted, but if there isn't it's possible to create one pretty easily.
13:24<Wolf01>i hoped to do something like this:
13:24<Wolf01>and var = String(number) += "sometext" + String(anothernumber)
13:26<Noldo>you need to do stringstream ss; ss << something; DrawText(x,y,;
13:26<DaleStan>template <typename _Ty> std::string String(const _Ty &var) { std::istringstream str; str << var; return str.str(); }
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13:38<Wolf01>uhm... the other function wants a char* -.-
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13:40<Maedhros>hmm. is it possible to do maths with the C preprocessor?
13:42<@Belugas>my poor knowledge would tend to say yes
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13:43<@Belugas>although i wonder to which extend...
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13:44<@Belugas>something like "#define RADTODEG(x) ((x) * 57.29578)" yu mean?
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13:44<Noldo>that won't make the pp do the maths
13:47<Maedhros>exactly - this is for nfo files, so i'd have to make the preprocessor return values :)
13:49<@Belugas>Maedhros, i've found out the example in
13:50<@Belugas>maybe you could find it usefull
13:51<Maedhros>thanks :)
13:52<Maedhros>i have a suspicion i'm not going to be able to do it easily, although allegedly the C preprocessor is Turing complete
13:53<Phazorx>bf is touring complete as well...
13:55<@Belugas>yuo're doing a pre-compiler of some sort?
13:56<Maedhros>i've got station ids as #defines, and i'm using #include too. it makes things quite a bit more readable :)
13:56<@Belugas>i see :)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>there was a preprocessor "program" that calculated prime numbers in one of the obfuscated c contests, i believe
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>but i'm not sure how you could use that for "real" stuff
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14:15<Timwi>Is there absolutely any way to upgrade a train to monorail without having to rebuild it and reset all its orders and everything?
14:17<Timwi>I would have thought this would be so blindly obvious that someone would have implemented this by now
14:17<Timwi>But thanks :)
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14:25<Lillefix>Hello, anyone here?
14:26<Wolf01>yes, there should be somebody
14:31<Maedhros>it's the sort of question that usually deserves a "no", though :p
14:31<Lillefix>is it possible for me to join a game just to watch...?
14:31<Lillefix>i wanna learn some more advanced building..
14:33<@peter1138>y=well yes
14:33<@peter1138>there's a spectate button
14:34<Lillefix>ya, but I want to ask some questions too..
14:38<+glx>spectators can talk
14:38<Wolf01>there is the in-game chat
14:39<Lillefix>ah, they can...? well, il jus have to get the right version first... 10827, right?
14:41<Wolf01>ever tried to press ENTER and type some text?
14:42<Wolf01>and you need the same revision of the server
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14:52<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
14:52<_42_>Sacro, please look a bit closer at the memberlist of this channel.
14:52<Sacro> <- you dutch are strange people
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14:58<RichK67>hi all
15:06<Wolf01>hi RichK67
15:07<Ammler>I loaded a big Map to MP, now if the guys like to change company name, games gives a error "to many names defined", what can I do?
15:07<+glx>I think you can't do anything
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>rofl @ the song :p
15:08<Eddi|zuHause2>it's been translated by sound, not by meaning :)
15:09<Ammler>but its also uselss to play this map?
15:10<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause2: hence the humour
15:11<SmatZ_>Sacro: yes it is crazy :)
15:12<Eddi|zuHause2>i even partially understand what they are really singing :)
15:12<Sacro> <- photoshop killer!
15:20<hylje>is that a hammer
15:21<alex__>Sacro: LMAO
15:21[~]Sacro is providing much amusement
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15:33<redmonkey>is it possible to buy up a real player in a network game? and if yes, how?
15:34<redmonkey>and what if i save the game and load it in a local game?
15:36<redmonkey>i just tried it.. but it doesn't work :(
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15:42<redmonkey>evening phryx
15:42|-|SmatZ_ changed nick to SmatZ
15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10928 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp fsmblockmap.h):
15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Add: An aircraft can only release the blocks on an airport that it actually owns.
15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: This prevents accidentally allowing a race condition where one aircraft keeps
15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: releasing blocks that it ceased owning a while ago. It also gives FSM writers a
15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: little leeway that if they over-release too often, it doesnt damage the airport
15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: block status.
15:44[~]phryx goes back to trying to figure out the new translation interface.
15:50<RichK67>ugh what a day
15:50[~]hylje gives RichK67 an encouraging kick
15:51<RichK67>i had to skim read a 1500 page technical spec in 30 mins looking for a specific condition we had missed when creating our software... found 2 new occurrences too...
15:52<RichK67>but it fried my brain
15:53<phryx>hehe. :)
15:53<RichK67>refuelling now with bananas and custard...
15:53<phryx>cant have been worse than mine tho, a system went down at work and i had to debug the source code of a few applications....
15:53<phryx>had 2hours to get it up
15:54<RichK67>lol - yeah, tech support can be a bummer
15:55<phryx>oh, i didnt mention i dont know C++
15:55<phryx>and i dont know how to code. :S
15:55<RichK67>LOL... never stopped most programmers ;)
15:55<phryx>remember me to strangle the devs boss to have given them all vacation at the same time. :S
15:56<phryx>RichK67: well honestly, i have no idea how to code. :S
15:56<phryx>the limit of my coding extends to creating batch scripts printing hello world!
15:57<phryx>well not exactly ;) but kindoff
15:58<Sacro>echo "HELLO OPENTTD WORLD"
16:01<Dephenom>lol Sacro
16:02<Dephenom>Sacro, what if they are using a different shell ;)
16:02<Sacro>Dephenom: !#/bin/bash would sort that
16:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10929 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/viewport.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: PALETTE_SEL_TILE_GREEN needed to be cast to a SpriteID from its enum. (thanks to glx)
16:03<Dephenom>Sacro, ive seen *some* scripts with /bin/sh, granted not many but there are some knocking around
16:04<Sacro>Dephenom: yes, sh->bash for backwards compatibility
16:05<Dephenom>Sacro, fair enough
16:08<SmatZ>do you use any software to test airport FSM?
16:08<+glx>yes openttd :)
16:08<SmatZ>aah :)
16:10<RichK67>SmatZ: observation mostly... the logic is getting better and better though... commits like 10928 really help
16:10<phryx>22:58 Sacro >> #!/bin/bash
16:10<phryx>22:58 Sacro >> echo "HELLO OPENTTD WORLD"
16:11<RichK67>most of the work was already done anyway... i wrote a program that converted the old OTTD format directly into the new newgrf format... all i have to do then is debug and refine
16:11<phryx>ok i know how to do some shellscripting come to think of it aswell ;)
16:12<SmatZ>you are doing a hard work :)
16:13<RichK67>very few people really understood the airports - pretty much me and Darkvater - so it sort of fell in my plate to do this update
16:13<Sacro>phryx: ?
16:14<Sacro>RichK67: and a good job you are doing :)
16:16<SmatZ>RichK67: i think there was a problem at (intercontinental?) airport - planes sometimes slowed down after the first tile, sometimes they were slowing down on the last tile ... sometimes they rotated right and then back when they were on the first tile
16:16<SmatZ>etc. :)
16:16<RichK67>i have an ulterior motive tho... i designed some really cool airports back in feb, but was told i could only release them if they were newgrf
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16:17<RichK67>thats the laguardia, munich 2011, and san francisco
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16:18<RichK67>yeah, i will use this as an opportunity to clean yp the motion on all airports
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16:19<SmatZ>RichK67: so you did the airport newgrf support just to have your airports included :)
16:21<RichK67>pretty much, but i also saw that if i create a powerful system, others may add whatever shape airport they want... long thin, massive, etc... but also could see that this will also work for sea and road vehicles, so ships can dock at real working ports, and buses unload passengers in a classic bus station, etc.
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>i am still looking forward to real turning loops for trams :)
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16:39<Wolf01>'night all
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16:40<Digitalfox>RichK67: Do you have some kind of mockup ( a image of what you think you would like to see ) of road and ships port??
16:41<Digitalfox>I'm curious of what could be done with them :)
16:43<RichK67>not really... its more a strong observation really... (confirmed by others) ... you could design a long wharf, with say 3-4 docking points, and ships would maneuver in following state machine instructions, just like the aircraft
16:43<RichK67>they would load/unload... and then "takeoff" - ie. exit the harbour
16:44<RichK67>hovercraft could go up onto raised concrete platforms to load/unload
16:44<Digitalfox>WOW that would be great :)
16:45<RichK67>using newgrf, you could state that "coal ships go to wharf 5", where there would be coal loading facilities... massive massive lots of possibilities
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16:47<Digitalfox>yeah.. That will be really nice, and with airports and planes any major thing you still would like to see in them? I've read your todo list in forums, but still any other feature ?
16:48<RichK67>yeah... other coders ;)
16:48<Digitalfox>ok :)
16:50<RichK67>multi tile depots i forgot to mention as in progress (but only for these, not for rail)... you can already define two tiles as being the same hangar in the newgrf, but i havent coded it into OTTD yet
16:52<Digitalfox>ok, keep the good work :)
16:53<RichK67>i would like to code independent holding stacks, so that you can have a holding stack at each entrance, but not need to have to explicitly code it into each airport
16:53<RichK67>this would allow closing airports in a really easy, elegant way...
16:53<RichK67>just disallow exit from the holding stack into the airport FSM
16:54<SmatZ>i would rather see queue there ... over stack ...
16:54<RichK67>usefully, a holding stack requires no block handling
16:55<SmatZ>I don't think that would be hard - is v->next, v->first used with aircrafts?
16:55<RichK67>ah, yes, ... i do want to add first-in-first-out for hangars
16:55<RichK67>it annoys me enormously that an aircraft with passengers sits in there forever, while newbuilds leave
16:56<SmatZ>wouldn't stack cause unlimited waiting time for heavily used airports?
16:56<Rubidium>SmatZ: yes, v->next is used for aircraft
16:56<RichK67>no more than they do now
16:56<Rubidium>about v->first I've got no idea
16:56<SmatZ>Rubidium: for shadows and rotors?
16:57<RichK67>v - aircraft, v->next shadow, v->next->next rotor, i believe
16:57<Rubidium>as RichK67 said
16:57<Rubidium>and the shadow holds the second (mail)
16:57<Rubidium>cargo type ;)
16:58<SmatZ>mmm yes ... and I though they are just placed with incrementing VehicleID, so v->next wouldn't be used
16:58<SmatZ>Rubidium: really nice hacked :-)
17:00<Rubidium>SmatZ, with incrementing you mean: the VehicleID of v->next is higher than the VehicleID of v? Then you're right, if you meant v->next->id = v->id + 1 then your wrong
17:00<SmatZ>Rubidium: then I was wrong
17:02<SmatZ>anyway, if v->first is not in use, it could be used to hold two or even four vehicleid in an union...
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17:04<Rubidium>but what's the use of those four vehicle IDs?
17:07<SmatZ>for queuing of planes at airports
17:08<SmatZ>well, it could be done in a different way
17:08<Rubidium>just dump a few pointers it in VehicleAir; wouldn't change the memory size of a vehicle unless you make it really really a ;pt
17:08<SmatZ>with only one pointer
17:09<SmatZ>sorry, what is ";pt"? RichK67 was going to implement aircraft queuing
17:10<RichK67>no, i actually said i would like to add independent holding stacks
17:10<Rubidium>SmatZ: lot (i.e. off-by-one on qwerty)
17:10<RichK67>fifo for in hangars... but intelligent fifo...
17:11<RichK67>(ie. empty aircraft have lower exit priority than aircraft with cargos)
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19:40<Sacro>!seen Bjarni
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19:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10930 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
19:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: seaplaneport.grf was only available in temperate.
19:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Change: runway numbers for water runways now in blue/teal.
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20:57<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause2, still around?
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21:09<@Belugas>lokks like i will not be around either...
21:09<@Belugas>going to sleep
21:09<@Belugas>night all
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 18 00:00:07 2007