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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-19

---Logopened Sun Aug 19 00:00:25 2007
00:43<KageDragon>Hello all
00:44<KageDragon>can anyone help me with my debugging?
00:56<SERVEPRO>software is like sex its better when its free
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01:26<simon444>SERVEPRO, it is illegal to be paid for.
01:27<simon444>its better when there is consent and both are having it instead of one using the other as a tool
01:58<peter1139>wha?
02:06<SERVEPRO>not in my native land
02:09|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host132-238-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
02:10<Wolf01>hello
02:12<Noldo>hello
02:15<SERVEPRO>goodbye
02:23<KageDragon>Hmm, how are vehicle indexs assigned? train 1 = vehicle index 1 etc?
02:23<@peter1138>on demand
02:24<@peter1138>index is internal and not related to the unitnumber
02:25<KageDragon>if i only had 5 trains, would the be assigned arbitrary indexes?
02:25<@peter1138>no, they'd start from 0
02:26<KageDragon>So the fact that that my game only has 5 trains, yet the first train has an index of 350 be screwed up? :)
02:27<@peter1138>no
02:28<@peter1138>carriages take up space too
02:28<@peter1138>as do some animation effects
02:30<KageDragon>I;m getting assert's when i try to add a 7th train by cloning. If I ignore it it tells me too many vehicles in game.
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02:50<Noldo>blah, the little bastard will not assert this time
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03:22<MessedRocker>i've been trying to set up a server for multiplayer on my computer, however when my friend tries to connect, it never works
03:23<MessedRocker>and i've pretty much tried everything
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03:44<Rubidium>MessedRocker: you need to configure your network so your friend can actually reach your server; you have to forward some ports on you DSL/Cable/whatever modem/router to the computer that runs the server
03:44<Rubidium>!openttd port
03:44<_42_>Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
03:44<Rubidium>those ^ ports to be exact
03:50<MessedRocker>Rubidium, I have forwarded ports 3979 and 3978 for TCP and UDP
03:51<MessedRocker>that was the first thing i did in fact
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04:16<Rubidium>MessedRocker: and you're using the same version of OTTD I hope. Otherwise I'm out of ideas and still suspect the network configuration for your trouble
04:16<MessedRocker>yes we are using the same version
04:18<simon444>MessedRocker, ISP firewall
04:18<simon444>NAT
04:18<simon444>local firewall (i.e. computer's own
04:18<simon444>)
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04:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: * r10932 /:
04:39<Wolf01>nice
04:40<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit r doesn't exists
04:40<Rubidium>:O
04:40<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit r10932 doesn't exists
04:40<Rubidium>something seems broken
04:42|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
04:43<hylje>:o
04:43<hylje>lol, wut?
04:44<hylje>hmm at least log work
04:44<hylje>s
04:44<hylje>-Codechange: replace "text" with "chat" for the chat related function and variables.
04:48<simon444>lol
04:48<simon444>!openttd commit 10931
04:48<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r10931 doesn't exists
04:48<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r10930 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r10929 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r10910 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r10500 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r9090 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r5000 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r2000 doesn't exists
04:49<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r1000 doesn't exists
04:50<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r600 doesn't exists
04:50<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r300 doesn't exists
04:50<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r100 doesn't exists
04:50<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r50 doesn't exists
04:50<hylje>..
04:50<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r10 doesn't exists
04:50<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r1 doesn't exists
04:50<simon444>OMG
04:50<simon444>wtf is wrong
04:50<hylje>our svn broke it seems
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04:51<hylje>or just dorpsgek
04:51<Rubidium>libexpat broke
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05:00<SERVEPRO>error warning
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05:01<Noldo>it seems I have broken something quite badly
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05:06<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit r1000 doesn't exists
05:07<simon444>still broken!!!
05:12<hylje>oh no ;_;
05:14<simon444>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
05:14<simon444>A MUTANT!
05:14<simon444>hylje, what happened to your eyes!?
05:14<hylje>those are tears, silly
05:15<simon444>yes I know
05:15<simon444>but your eyes
05:15<hylje>wut
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05:19<simon444>._.
05:19<simon444>= you not crying
05:19<simon444>;_;
05:19<simon444>= you crying
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05:22<skidd13>WTF is r10932 ??
05:22<hylje>?
05:23<SERVEPRO>!
05:23<skidd13>http://cia.vc/stats/project/OpenTTD/.message/6f6401
05:23<hylje>:>
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05:27<Noldo>skidd13: ask the svn server, it knows the truth
05:28<simon444>skidd13, a censored sex patch
05:28<simon444>they want to surprise us all when the nightly is built later tonight
05:29<simon444>they hope by leaving it blank we will not check it out before the shocker comes out
05:29[~]skidd13 censors simon444
05:29<skidd13>Noldo: Ah I see.
05:29<simon444>skidd13, I wouldn't do that
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05:33|-|Tekky [~Tekky@p5493DDBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:35<Noldo>hi Tekky
05:35<Tekky>hi everyone.
05:37<Tekky>I have a little technical question: I have compiled OpenTTD nightly build with RANDOM_DEBUG defined so that it outputs debugging information to stdout. But when I call openttd.exe using the Win32 command line, openttd.exe exits immediately before the game actually loads. This means I cannot get any information from stdout. However, the task manager says openttd.exe is running. Could it be that openttd.exe called itself and then exited? How can I g
05:38<Noldo>too much stuff on one line "How can I g" ended with that
05:38<simon444>is the simpsons movie worth watching?
05:39<Tekky>oh.... ok, I'll repost.
05:39<SmatZ>Tekky: you may try redirecting its output : openttd.exe > file
05:39<Tekky>I have a little technical question: I have compiled OpenTTD nightly build with RANDOM_DEBUG defined so that it outputs debugging information to stdout. But when I call openttd.exe using the Win32 command line, openttd.exe exits immediately before the game actually loads. This means I cannot get any information from stdout.
05:39<Tekky>However, the task manager says openttd.exe is running. Could it be that openttd.exe called itself and then exited? How can I get the stdout information from openttd.exe under these conditions?
05:39<Tekky>ok, I have reposted everything.
05:40<Tekky>SmatZ: I get no output in the file when I do that, because openttd.exe quits immediately. I see the command prompt immediately after entering that line. OpenTTD however then loads afterwards. Therefore, I have the suspicion that openttd.exe is calling itself.
05:41<SmatZ>Tekky: do you use cmd.exe ?
05:42<Tekky>yes
05:42<Rubidium>Tekky: try starting it with -d
05:42<Rubidium>and OTTD does not instantiate itself
05:47<Tekky>Thanks! Now I do still get the command prompt immediately after launching openttd.exe, but I also now get an additional console window from OpenTTD for debugging information.
05:47<Tekky>Strange, I thought I would only see the next command prompt after openttd.exe had exited.....
05:49<Tekky>but I still can't see any output to stdout.....
05:50<Tekky>does this debug window show output from stdout or only things explicitly sent to the debug window?
05:51<Tekky>ah, I had a mistake in my debugging code, let me try again....
05:56<Tekky>"openttd >rng.txt" didn't pipe stdout to rng.txt. Instead, I get all the stdout data in the debug window....
05:57<Tekky>I need this information to be piped to a file, it is too much information for the console.....
05:58<@peter1138>sounds like you are being hit by windows' idiotic console/gui app distinction
05:58<Tekky>yes, I'm afraid, too :(
05:59<Tekky>I guess I will have to change the source code for my debugging purposes so that the program doesn't use stdout :(
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06:11<Tekky>hmmmm, maybe I should try using stderr instead of stdout.... how do I pipe stderr?
06:11<Tekky>openttd &>rnd.txt
06:11<Tekky>like that?
06:12<Tekky>I'm afraid I forgot, I used to know....
06:15<Tekky>or was it "openttd 2>rnd.txt"?
06:18<SmatZ>Tekky: under windows ? is not "openttd > file" enough ?
06:18<SmatZ>ah, it doesn't
06:18<SmatZ>:-x
06:19<Tekky>no, as I said before, it isn't... Hmmmm, I think you can pipe stderr with "2>" instead of simply ">", but it behaves extactly the same way :(
06:19<SmatZ>Tekky: google : http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/redirection.mspx?mfr=true
06:19<Tekky>thx
06:23<Tekky>Hmmmm, I'm afraid all this doesn't work with GUI applications such as openttd :(
06:24<hylje>gui apps have stderrs too
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06:30<Tekky>but it seems these cannot be piped from the command line in Win32 :(
06:34<Noldo>how do I make a breakpoint to a static function on gdb
06:37<Tekky>I have never used gdb before, sorry :(
06:41<Noldo>had to do it with a line number
06:46<@peter1138>cgdb makes that a lot easier
06:48<Tekky>wow, RANDOM_DEBUG generated a 17 MB file just from letting OpenTTD run for 10 seconds :)
06:49<Tekky>that shows that OpenTTD is make a lot of use of the Random Number Generator :)
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07:05<Tekky>ok, I finally got it to work by hard-coding the piping of the output to an output file.
07:05<Tekky>If I had been using GNU/Linux, I would not have had all of this trouble :)
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07:26<simon444>Tekky, you should thank the wonderful engineers Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompsons
07:27<simon444>those engineering features are thanks to them and not linux
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07:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10933 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
07:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: On EndLanding or HeliEndLanding, a check is made for an explicit Choose Term/Helipad command. If one found, it is used, and if it fails, the vehicle will default to hangar.
07:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: If no explicit command is found, the full range of terminals/helipads are used.
07:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: This allows for limited availability terminal selections to be made. eg. if you land on Runway X, only check terminal group 2.
07:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: Removed some superfluous comments.
07:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Fix: Major movement orders now cover block release and reservation internally. Section commented out for potential removal.
07:31<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit by bjarni :: r1000 trunk/Makefile (2004-12-09 23:17:03 UTC)
07:31<@DorpsGek>simon444: Makefile: added check for static build releases on mac. Most users can't use a dynamic build
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07:31<simon444>fixed!
07:31<@DorpsGek>simon444: Commit by rubidium :: r10932 /trunk/src (10 files in 3 dirs) (2007-08-19 09:38:30 UTC)
07:31<@DorpsGek>simon444: -Codechange: replace "text" with "chat" for the chat related function and variables.
07:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10934 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Missed reset of state to HANGAR for aircraft in hangar that fail to exit.
07:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10935 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (airportsextended.grf sprites/airportsextended.nfo): [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: International airport completed.
07:32<TrueBrain>@kick simon444 join #openttd.notice
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07:33<simon444>TrueBrain, you were not here earlier?
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08:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r10936 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_marine.cpp ai_object.cpp ai_object.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: allow water_protection for non-water-building in DoCommand
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08:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r10937 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
08:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIStation::GetName on request by Nickman
08:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: AICompant::GetCompanyName returned \0 for invalid company instead of NULL
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08:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r10938 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp):
08:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix r10937: regression update
08:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: water-tiles aren't really buildable in any real way
08:24<Eddi|zuHause3>probably need a function for "bridgeable", too :)
08:26<TrueBrain>lol
08:27<simon444><CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r10937 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
08:27<simon444><CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix r10937: regression update
08:27<simon444>wtf
08:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r10939 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
08:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList valuator Water
08:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITile::IsWater
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08:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r10940 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicle::GetName and AIVehicle::SetName to set vehicle names
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09:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truelight * r10941 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITile::GetHeight and AITileList valuator Height
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09:13<simon444>hi orudge
09:13<simon444>you missed it
09:16|-|Nickman [~d988b9e9@207.250.49.6] has joined #openttd
09:16<Nickman>hi all
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09:23<TrueBrain>hi Nickman
09:24<Nickman>I'm home again ;)
09:24<Nickman>well, at least at my girlfriends home :D
09:24<Nickman>I've been working on a road routeplanner this week
09:25<Nickman>I'm able to connect two towns, but I'm having some problems with the road building itself with the slopes and stuff
09:27<Nickman>how have you been TrueBrain? :)
09:28<TrueBrain>good good, enjoying my free time :)
09:28<Nickman>hehe :D
09:28<+glx>Nickman: try BuildRoadFull()
09:28<+glx>it may help with slopes
09:30<Nickman>ah, indeed it might :)
09:30<Nickman>I'll try it out when I get home :)
09:30<Nickman>bridges can't be build yet right?
09:31<simon444>we need an economic simulator to be used by politicians
09:31<TrueBrain>Nickman: not yet, indeed
09:31<simon444>I am sure government grants will cover full time development
09:32<Nickman>:D
09:32<Nickman>has there been some good progress on the NoAI branch or not?
09:33<TrueBrain>nope
09:34<Nickman>that's to bad :)
09:34<Nickman>but I already got my hands full on the current version :D
09:35<Nickman>could there be a newer build for win32 ?
09:35<Nickman>I don't like working on my crappy laptop :D
09:35<TrueBrain>Nickman: check the website
09:37<Nickman>you mean here? http://nightly.openttd.org/noai/scoreboard.php
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09:38<TrueBrain>yes
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09:39<Nickman>it sais it's outdated so... :D
09:39|-|Wezz6400 changed nick to Guest1272
09:40<simon444>If your happy and you know clap your hands
09:40<+glx>Nickman: of course it is :) no changes in source before today
09:41<Nickman>hehe :D
09:41<Nickman>what did you do today? :d
09:41<Nickman>I always forget the svn address
09:41<Nickman>to check the commits
09:41<+glx>svn.openttd.org
09:41<TrueBrain>hmmm, that is true, when there are no changes for 7 days, they are marked as outdated
09:42<TrueBrain>nice bug :p
09:42<TrueBrain>http://nightly.openttd.org/noai/files/
09:44<Nickman>(y)
09:45<TrueBrain>@kick Nickman This aint MSN!
09:45|-|Nickman kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [This aint MSN!]
09:45<+glx>TrueBrain is a MSN user ?
09:47<Rubidium>no, that's why he can't stand their emoticons
09:47<+glx>hmm Nickman doesn't have autojoin :)
09:48<TrueBrain>suprises me we have one user who hasn't
09:48<simon444>!svn
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09:48<Nickman>why do you hate me? :D
09:48<Rubidium>TrueBrain: there's more than one user without autorejoin
09:48<TrueBrain>Rubidium: just I never kick those :p
09:48<simon444>Nickman, they said bad things behind you
09:48<Nickman>yeah, I'm on freaking ircatwork.com :p
09:48<simon444>They want to...
09:49<simon444>I can't say
09:49<Nickman>at home I have auto rejoin... :)
09:49<simon444>or they will...
09:49<Nickman>hehe :D
09:50<Rubidium>TrueBrain: you're lieing
09:50<TrueBrain>Rubidium: possible
09:50<TrueBrain>one thing one can never rule out
09:50<Rubidium>rather a fact
09:50<TrueBrain>the memory only rmemebers the things that matter :)
09:51<Rubidium>my memory is broken; it only remembers the things that do not matter :(
09:51<Nickman>I don't remember anything?
09:51<Nickman>:D
09:51<TrueBrain>for that we invented notepads :)
09:51<Nickman>haha
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09:53<Rubidium>and irc logs ;)
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10:07<Guest1272>irc logs were invented to generate silly statistics
10:07<Guest1272>ew
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10:12<Nickman>:p
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10:25<simon444>bit torrent rules
10:25<simon444>a complete 9kb/s
10:26<simon444>better downloading from sf
10:26<simon444>shit... wrong channel
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10:34<simon444>http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bb8kJV15Kns
10:34<simon444>blathijs, gold
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10:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i have such a weird humming in my ear, how do i make that stop?
10:42<Smoovious>ice-pick... insert at least 2 inches
10:44<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, do you have a crt monitor?
10:45<Eddi|zuHause3>no... i found out... /ignore simon*
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10:46<Wezz6400>Eddi|zuHause3 nice find
10:55<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, might be your cpu / hdd fan
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11:34<Nickman>so TrueBrain, when will the NoAI branch be merged with trunk? ;) :D
11:35<+glx>when it's done :)
11:36<Nickman>hehe :D
11:37<Rubidium>it will be merged before it has been merged
11:39<TrueBrain>and right after we finish the last commit before it will be merged
11:39<Nickman>I made a pathfinder last week, but I made it extend the AIController (like a normal AI). Is this the way to do it or not? Because I don't know how to acces it now with my original AI... :)
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11:42<Nickman>Or do I have to let it extend the "Pathfinder" Class?
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11:44<TrueBrain>yes
11:44<Nickman>can I call the Sleep() procedure then?
11:44<Nickman>inside it's methods
11:45<TrueBrain>yes
11:45<Nickman>perfect ;) :D
11:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10942 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix [FS#1133]: make the AI not crash when it has ships as the AI does not support them.
11:53<Eddi|zuHause3>i had to read that 3 times before it made sense...
11:55<Rubidium>and does it make sense?
11:57<Eddi|zuHause3>in regular temporal logic, the "a until b" statement requires that b actually occures after finitely many steps
11:57<simon444>made sense the first time
11:58<simon444>but I'm use to bad grammar
11:58<Rubidium>TTD's AI supported ships and with cheating you can make ships for AIs too
11:59<Eddi|zuHause3>what i meant to say: yes, it did make sense after the 3rd time
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12:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10943 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp airport.h fsmblockmap.h):
12:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Hangar terminal selection now checks for presence of a
12:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Choose Term/Helipad command. Usefully this can be *after* the TO_ALL, so
12:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ordinary processing will not pick up a secondary terminal reassignment.
12:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Change: On arrival at a terminal, the aircraft forgets any other block reservations it has.
12:09<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10944 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (airportsextended.grf sprites/airportsextended.nfo): [NewGRF_ports] -Change: International airport refined. Added multiple extra blocks outside each terminal, to allow for less restrictive aircraft motions.
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12:23<simon444>made sense the first time
12:24<simon444>airportsextended.grf
12:24<simon444>airport sex tended
12:24<simon444>WTF
12:24<simon444>this place is just weird
12:25<hylje>:b
12:37<Eddi|zuHause3>this is soooo old...
12:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10945 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (airportsextended.grf sprites/airportsextended.nfo):
12:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: International airport - lower hangar cannot now send aircraft to upper terminals. Keeps the one-way flow better.
12:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Change: Hangar entry now does not have a change of direction.
12:39<hylje>request: rename airportsextended to airports_extended
12:44<Tekky>hehe, I also think that would be a better name :) Because the word is too long, otherwise.
12:44<Eddi|zuHause3>we should go back to 8.3 filenames :p
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12:50<nightstalker>hi, im getting an error building 10945 on osx
12:51<nightstalker>make[1]: *** [video/cocoa_v.o] Error 1
12:51<nightstalker>err
12:51<+glx>this line is not the useful one :)
12:51<nightstalker>openttd/src/video/cocoa_v.mm: In function 'void QZ_GameLoop()':
12:51<nightstalker>openttd/src/video/cocoa_v.mm:774: error: 'DrawTextMessage' was not declared in this scope
12:51<nightstalker>make[1]: *** [video/cocoa_v.o] Error 1
12:51<nightstalker>i know ;)
12:52<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, it is?
12:53<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, there was an conspiracy when cia fucked up earlier today that sex patchies were included.
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, like this: [Mi Aug 15 2007] [23:10:34] <hylje> airport sex tended
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>it's already 4 days ago
12:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r10946 /trunk/src/video/cocoa_v.mm: -Fix (r10932): forgot one occurence
12:55<+glx>nightstalker: should be ok now
12:56<simon444>lol
12:56<simon444>I am not original
12:56<TrueBrain>glx: I was just pressing commit :(
12:56<+glx>TrueBrain: sorry
12:56<TrueBrain>t
12:56<nightstalker>thanks, testing
12:56<TrueBrain>where did that 't' come from? :s
12:57<simon444>burp fart
12:57<Sionide>i think your keyboard might have a leak
12:58<Eddi|zuHause3>you committed it :p
12:58<nightstalker>ok, built
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12:58<+glx>nightstalker: thx for having tell us just before nightlies compilation :)
12:59<simon444>omg the simpsons movie!
12:59<Tekky>hehe, I like the spider-cow in the Simpsons movie :)
13:00<simon444>spider cow?
13:00<simon444>I haven't watched it yet
13:00<simon444>don't ruin it for me
13:00<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think i have seen a cow in the simpsons...
13:01<Tekky>ah, sorry, spider-pig, I mean....
13:01<Tekky>it was not a cow :)
13:01<simon444>I saw that on youtube
13:01<simon444>spider man copyright vio
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>it's in the trailers i have seen
13:02<simon444>fucking hell this last 2....
13:03<Eddi|zuHause3>fucking hell? no, that was the southpark movie...
13:03<simon444>Eddi|zuHause3, I don't want to say what in public
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13:27<simon444>bye
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13:35<Noldo>It seems my patching efforts have broken the financial display
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14:23<Noldo>I really don't get why the finances window gets drawn something else than is in p->yearly_expenses
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15:14[~]Bjarni stabs Sacro
15:14<@Bjarni>there is no need to poke people. This will for sure get his attention
15:14<Wolf01>shhh don't wake him
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15:14<@Bjarni>he looked for me
15:14<@Bjarni>as horrible as it may be :(
15:14<Wolf01>:O
15:15<@Bjarni>-_42_- Sacro (~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM) was looking for you on #openttd 18 hours 50 minutes ago (19.08. 01:22).
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15:15<@Bjarni>that's an odd hour to look for people
15:15<Wolf01>hmmm about 19 hours, after 3 hours you can trash those messages ;)
15:16<@Bjarni>I guess he has forgotten about it after 3 hours... would make sense
15:16<Wolf01>that's why you can trash the message
15:17<Noldo>grrrr
15:17<Noldo>I'm starting to hate static functions
15:17<@Bjarni>...
15:17<@Bjarni>why?
15:17<@Bjarni>they can be useful
15:18<@Bjarni>specially if you understand how they work ;)
15:18<Noldo>the debugger seems to crazy with the one I have trouble with
15:18<Rubidium>gdb?
15:18<Noldo>yes
15:18<Noldo>I can't print the local variable because I don't know what it is called
15:19<Rubidium>that's not the debugger having trouble, it's GCC that has optimized a lot
15:19<@Bjarni>remember to disable optimisation
15:19<Wolf01>i have troubles with non-POD arguments...
15:19<Rubidium>configure with debug level 3 to get the correct locations/variables and such from gcc
15:19<@Bjarni>disabling inline stuff should solve your issue
15:20<@Bjarni>and inline is disabled when debug is set to 3 ;)
15:20<Noldo>ok, thanks
15:20<Noldo>I'll have to try again tomorrow
15:21<@Bjarni>your computer is THAT slow to compile?
15:23<Eddi|zuHause3><Bjarni> that's an odd hour to look for people <- actually that's like 2 minutes after you quit
15:23<@Bjarni>based on "<Bjarni> Goodnight", I say it's a clear indication that I'm unreachable
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15:37<skidd13>Does anyone know a nice decompiler? I've got an old program from a friend but he lost the source and I want to recreate the code.
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15:44<@Bjarni>skidd13: is that what we call reverse engineering closed source apps today? :p
15:45<skidd13>Bjarni: I'd call it lost source apps :D
15:46<Rubidium>jasmine is a nice decompiler
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15:46<Rubidium>grfcodec is also a decompiler
15:46<phiker>hi, I´m just wondering how you guys implemented picking of tiles in OpenTTD
15:46<SmatZ>Rubidium: may it happen, that if I disconnect during map download, nobody can connect to the server?
15:47<phiker>I don´t want a complete answer, but I´d appreciate it if someone could point me to the code location
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15:47<Eddi|zuHause3>phiker: there's a global variable like "_highlight_area" or something
15:48<skidd13>Rubidium: I need one to decompile binary (executable) files
15:48<Eddi|zuHause3>it might be easier to just disassemble
15:48<phiker>Eddi|zuHause3, and this variable is for what exactly?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause3>phiker: for if you drag&drop stuff on the map
15:49<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause3: Sure, but I prefer a more "human readable" code.
15:50<ln->skidd13: don't expect a decompiler to decompiler to any sensible form.
15:50<Rubidium>skidd13: you first need to know the language it was originally written in, otherwise decompilation will most likely fail. Furthermore everything useful (variable/function names) of the original code is most likely lost
15:50<Eddi|zuHause3>there are people who can perfectly read binary code :p
15:50<SmatZ>Rubidium: nice, there IS some (long) timeout ... :) rather it is 12min (?) TCP/IP timeout, isn't it?
15:50<phiker>Eddi|zuHause3, I meant the calculation of the tile position in the map from the mouse coordinates
15:50<phiker>because I guess this is a bit complicated with slopes/heights/etc.
15:50<Rubidium>SmatZ: sounds like a TCP timeout yes
15:51<phiker>I just want to know if you do this with mouse maps or whatever
15:51<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, you mean like if the mouse pointer is on the map, which tile gets highlighted
15:51<phiker>yep
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15:51<Rubidium>phiker: look for RemapCoords
15:52<Eddi|zuHause3>i have not looked at that yet...
15:52<skidd13>Rubidium: The programm is not that big that var names should be the problem. The source language is more difficult (probably delphi or C)
15:52<phiker>Rubidium, I´ll do that, thanks
15:53<Eddi|zuHause3>skidd13: in java it is much easier... you can reconstruct the entire program modulo names of local variables...
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15:53<Rubidium>skidd13: and if it is compiled with optimizations on... you've got a lot of code duplication due to loop unrolls etc
15:53<skidd13>I just want to get an idea how the original programm does the calculation. I want to reimplement it then in C++
15:54<phiker>Rubidium, I don´t really get what RemapCoords is for
15:55<skidd13>Rubidium: I'm relativly sure that it's compiled without -O(1-3|S)
15:55<Rubidium>maps coordinates from in-game to on-screen (or vice versa, don't know)
15:55<Rubidium>skidd13: default gcc is -O2
15:55<phiker>this looks far too easy to do that task :D
15:56<skidd13>Rubidium: It's a M$ programm ;) so no gcc
15:56<Rubidium>does it have gui?
15:56<skidd13>no
15:56<Rubidium>lucky you ;)
15:57<Eddi|zuHause3>phiker: it's just a coordinate transformation, A*x = b
15:57<phiker>but it is not a simple coordinate transformation when it comes to slopes
15:57<Rubidium>skidd13: you have to google and try a few
15:58<Eddi|zuHause3>where A is a 3x3 matrix, and x and b are 3D-vectors
15:58<Rubidium>phiker: it is
15:58<Eddi|zuHause3>or actually, it's 2x3
15:58<Rubidium>otherwise you could look at UpdateTileSelection
15:58<phiker>Rubidium, the only thing I found was something on gamedev
15:58<phiker>and it looked _far_ more complex...
15:58<skidd13>Rubidium: That I tried before but all I tried left a huge amount of asembler in the c code or crashed during the decompile :(
15:58<phiker>http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2026.asp
15:59<Wolf01>'night
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16:00<skidd13>No one with a bit decompilation experience in here? (java and grf excluded)
16:00<Rubidium>yes, and it went nowhere
16:01<Rubidium>you really need to know assembly to decompile stuff as decompilers are merely transforming assembly patterns to C code and if it is optimized only a little it can't do that
16:01<ln->hmm, wtf, someone has survived a 1200-meter fall without an operational parachute.
16:01<skidd13>What decompiler has been used for ottd? IIRC there has been used one?
16:02<Rubidium>phiker: TranslateXYToTileCoord?
16:02<Rubidium>ask ludde
16:02<phiker>Rubidium, yep, that looks more like what I´m searching for
16:03<Eddi|zuHause3>ln-: i heard about such a thing as well
16:04<Eddi|zuHause3>i think the guy was on jay leno or something...
16:04|-|Progman [~progman@p57A1C9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:05<ln->this one has happened within the past few days.
16:05<ln->in slovakia
16:06<Eddi|zuHause3>i think his "luck" was that he did not land on paved area, but off in some bushes, who took a lot of energy off the fall before hitting the actual ground
16:06<Eddi|zuHause3>he was heavily injured, but alive
16:06<Eddi|zuHause3>then it is a different one :)
16:07<ln->there's also one person who has survived a ~10-km fall alive.
16:07<Rubidium>there's no real difference between 10 km and 1200 m when falling
16:08|-|Dark_Link^ changed nick to Dark_Link^sleep
16:08<Rubidium>except that the 10 km one has a higher chance to become unconsious
16:08<Rubidium>they would both have reached terminal velocity when falling from such a height
16:09<TrueBrain>just in the 10 km case you are slightly more heated :p
16:09<@Bjarni>when falling, you will accelerate until the gravity pulls just as much as the wind resistance brakes and you will have a constant speed. It doesn't matter how long you have a constant speed when it comes to the released energy during an impact
16:09<TrueBrain>Bjarni: how nice of you to explain "terminal velocity" :s
16:09<@Bjarni>for an average human, I think I read that the max speed is around 200 km/h
16:10<TrueBrain>for a penny it is 140 km/h
16:10<Rubidium>Bjarni: that heavily depends on the orientation with respect to the direction you're falling in
16:10<@Bjarni>for a cat, it's 100 km/h
16:11<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and on the consious of the person... dead people fall harder :)
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16:11<@Bjarni>Rubidium: yeah, but if the person is bright, he/she will try to cause as much wind resistance as possible
16:11<Nickman>indeed
16:11<Nickman>or you will splat as you hit the earth ;)
16:11<TrueBrain>Nickman: most likely you do anyway
16:12<@Bjarni>you will have to hope for a rubber tree :p
16:12<@Bjarni>well, it works in cartoons and Monkey Island
16:12<Eddi|zuHause3>or a street like in matrix :p
16:13<ln->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Magee
16:13<TrueBrain>don't forget the spoon
16:13<ln->there is no
16:14<@Bjarni>I think it was cruel when I fell off a cliff in MI1 and it showed the restart window... then a moment later, it vanished and Guybrush came back as said "rubber tree". Now that's funny (and yeah, I fell for it)
16:15<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i can't remember that...
16:15<Eddi|zuHause3>i only remember "please insert disk #235" or something
16:16<Eddi|zuHause3>which is only half as fun if you played from HDD
16:17<TrueBrain>6hvd3y4re4tdxsvr4y4n5y sb45yvs435tfs346 s5ty4vw456sj4n56u798,lr78
16:17<TrueBrain>so there! Decrypt that!
16:17<Eddi|zuHause3>Gesundheit.
16:17<@Bjarni>it's where you control the catapult on Monkey Island™ itself
16:17<Nickman>TrueBrain: how is it encrypted? :p
16:17<TrueBrain>Nickman: money-crypt
16:17<@Bjarni>it's encoded
16:17<TrueBrain>monkey-crypt
16:17<TrueBrain>typing is hard
16:18<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: oh, right... i think i remember now
16:18<Nickman>I can't follow... :p
16:18<Nickman>so, any progress on the 32bpp GRF site TrueBrain ?
16:18<TrueBrain>Nickman: yes; none :)
16:18<TrueBrain>(no progress is also progress :p)
16:18<Nickman>indeed it is... :D
16:18|-|phiker [~PK@nrbg-4db40973.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: blubb]
16:19<Nickman>but it's very little progress ;)
16:19<Nickman>very very little...
16:19<Eddi|zuHause3>what is monkey-crypt? i only remember "Hmblgrf...! Grflbm...! Damn, i need to learn how to speak in front of women!"
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16:21<@Bjarni>there is a sideeffect of having a good memory: games like Monkey Island™ has no replay value :s
16:22<TrueBrain>OpenTTD has?
16:22<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: so you tried to talk to Elaine Marley?
16:22<Eddi|zuHause3>sure it has, there are lots of jokes that i did not get when i was 8...
16:23<Nickman>Adventure games have very little to no replay value, since you tend to remember most of the puzzels when you see them
16:23<Eddi|zuHause3>but yes, the puzzels are usually trivial after you solved them once
16:24<@Bjarni>Nickman: but I remember them BEFORE I see them
16:24<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i could also tell you most puzzels without seeing them...
16:24<TrueBrain>oh well, boring, so good night
16:24<@Bjarni>night TrueBrain
16:25<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm gonna watch the shield...
16:27<@Bjarni>I can remember when I played Bloodwych ages ago (I think it was 1990 or something). I played it together with another guy and he kept asking me for directions because I could remember everything from the maze that we already passed. Ok in the beginning, pretty nice 10 hours into the game, damn good 30 hours into the game
16:27<@Bjarni>and I can still remember the maze :/
16:27<@Bjarni>parts of it well enough to actually draw it on paper if needed
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16:27<@Bjarni>that really kills replayability
16:29<@Bjarni>before you ask: I don't know how I remember stuff like that
16:34<@Bjarni>http://www.alanchapman.org/bloodwych/maps.html <-- looks like somebody else got the idea to draw the entire map. However I guess they didn't do it based on memory years after playing
16:34<@Bjarni>hmm
16:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10947 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (airportsextended.grf sprites/airportsextended.nfo):
16:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Intercontinental airport.
16:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: First cut of state machine for testing. Not yet optimised.
16:34<@Bjarni>would actually be interesting to see if I could draw something and then test if it fits with the game
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16:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r10948 /trunk/src/win32.cpp: -Add: [win32] crash.dmp support for MSVC release builds
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17:14<ln->18:14 <Bjarni> try to set your language to Japanese (日本語) in OSX and start OpenTTD without any openttd.cfg 18:14 <Bjarni> and you will notice the problem <-- you mean the question marks?
17:16<+glx>yes no font loaded by default ln-
17:21<ln->but as Bjarni also said, it's not mac-specific.
17:22<+glx>right
17:22<ln->and it's also not very much default-language-by-locale-at-startup-specific, since those questionmark languages are available in the settings anyway.
17:23|-|_Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F4D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:26<Eddi|zuHause3>語 <- how do you write such a "letter"? it's gonna take ages...
17:27<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean "write" as in "pencil and paper"
17:27<manveru>it's actually quite fast
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17:29<manveru>i mean, it's only like 14 strokes
17:29|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0F4B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>"only"... there are hardly any latin letters even needing 4 strokes...
17:30<manveru>hehe
17:30<manveru>well, there are also the katakana and hiragana
17:30<manveru>you do have words in latin that take 14 strokes
17:31<manveru>that is what the kanji are, like the 'go' or '語' that you just showed
17:31<+glx>yeah in german it's usual ;)
17:31<manveru>the kata/hiragana take less strokes and only represent a sound
17:31<Eddi|zuHause3>well, if you take into account that the average japanese "letter" would be a combination of two latin letters...
17:32<manveru>アスカ is an example for writing 'askua' in katakana
17:33<manveru>that is 6 strokes
17:33|-|svip [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>and writing 'askua' is only like 8 strokes
17:33<manveru>sorry, asuka
17:33<Eddi|zuHause3>does not change much :)
17:34<manveru>^^
17:34<manveru>yeah
17:34<manveru>あすか is the same in hiragana, again 6 strokes
17:35<Eddi|zuHause3>that looks more to me...
17:35|-|_Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F4D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:35<TrueBrain>how fast can I create MineSweeper and a GP that tries to solve it?
17:35<manveru>7?
17:35<svip>Oh dear. I am a bit confused about where to begin to inoperate my patch idea.
17:35|-|Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
17:35<svip>:/ Why did I even start that sentence with "oh dear"?
17:35<svip>I sound like C-3PO.
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17:36<manveru>Eddi|zuHause3: the point is just that the kanji (those uber-complex characters) are small pictures
17:36<manveru>and as usual, a picture says more than 1000 words :)
17:36<svip>:< And then there is that poem with 1000 different Chinese characters.
17:36<svip>I know you're talking Japanese.
17:37<Eddi|zuHause3>it's "über", so you have a few more strokes :)
17:37|-|OB [Oliver@psynegy.com] has joined #openttd
17:37<svip>But Japanese writing systems are just derived from Chinese.
17:37<svip>:/ While... hehe, the language is interestingly not.
17:37<manveru>yeah
17:37<OB>Hi guys
17:37<OB>got a nice fat question
17:37<svip>Fat?
17:37<svip>Did you feed it too much?
17:37<OB>you calling me fat?
17:37<OB>rude
17:37<svip>I am rude.
17:37<OB>anyway
17:37<OB>Installing dedi server on debian via ssh
17:38|-|nckomodo [nck_TEST@64-246-97-239.lemoyne1.pppoe.amplex.net] has joined #openttd
17:38<OB>saave me?
17:38<OB>wget'ed the .deb, all good, installed
17:38<ln->ssh sounds quite irrelevant as far as the question is concerned.
17:38<OB>fine
17:38<TrueBrain>now let the boy finish talking
17:38<OB>but for some reason I can't find the binary?
17:38<svip>:o
17:38<Eddi|zuHause3>so, where is the actual problem?
17:38<TrueBrain>try /usr/games
17:38<svip>Tried looking through /usr/bin ?
17:39<svip>Or that.
17:39<svip>I think it should be in your path, OB.
17:39|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0F4B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39<Eddi|zuHause3>or /usr/share/games
17:39<svip>Just type "open" and then hit tab.
17:39<svip>Twice.
17:39<OB>root [/usr/share/games] $ open
17:39<OB>open open_init_pty openssl openvt
17:39<ln->like Homer did, but it didn't bring him Tab drink.
17:40<TrueBrain>usual suspects: /usr/games/bin /usr/local/bin
17:40<svip>Hehe.
17:40<svip>But is "." in his PATH?
17:40<svip>echo $PATH
17:40<svip>Do that.
17:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i never actually installed openttd...
17:40<TrueBrain>svip: "." should _never_ be in your $PATH
17:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i just ran it directly from the compilation dir
17:40<OB>/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin
17:40<TrueBrain>any real sane person types ./<file> if you want to execute something from the local dir
17:40<svip>:| It is on mine.
17:41<svip>But then again, Slackware tends to do things differently.
17:41<svip>It doesn't even use the same init systems as other distros. ;o
17:41<OB>I never compiled anything, I guess I should be?
17:41<svip>But then again, TrueBrain, I commonly use ./ instead.
17:41<svip>It's a good "habit".
17:41<TrueBrain>OB: if you installed the 'deb', it should be on your system
17:42<OB>that's what I thought
17:42<TrueBrain>OB: did you check /usr/games?
17:42<Eddi|zuHause3>suse specifically asked me wether i wanted to have users and/or root to have . in path
17:42<svip>Hm, how did you install it?
17:42<svip>dpkg -i <file>, yes?
17:42|-|Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D]
17:43<OB>it was a different command I think
17:43<OB>I'll try that one now
17:43<svip>:/
17:43<svip>I am quite sure Debian uses dpkg.
17:43<OB>root [/home/srcds] $ dpkg -i openttd-0.5.2-2-i386.deb
17:43<OB>Selecting previously deselected package openttd.
17:43<OB>(Reading database ... 25308 files and directories currently installed.)
17:43<OB>Unpacking openttd (from openttd-0.5.2-2-i386.deb) ...
17:43<OB>Setting up openttd (0.5.2-2) ...
17:44<svip>There you go.
17:44<svip>Now type "opent" and hit tab twice again.
17:44<OB>root [/home/srcds] $ openttd
17:44<OB>-bash: openttd: command not found
17:44<OB>root [/home/srcds] $ open
17:44<OB>open open_init_pty openssl openvt
17:44<svip>:|
17:44<OB>this is where I'm confused
17:44<svip>Anyone knows its name?
17:44<OB>it is openttd
17:44<OB>but it's not there
17:44<TrueBrain>for the very last time: check /usr/games/
17:44<svip>With ls.
17:44<svip>ls /usr/games
17:44<TrueBrain>with what ever file-browser
17:44<OB>root [/usr/games] $ ls
17:44<OB>banner openttd
17:45<TrueBrain>OH LOOK!
17:45<svip>See?
17:45<OB>no bin/exec
17:45<svip>Is it a dir?
17:45<TrueBrain>cd openttd
17:45<TrueBrain>OH DEAD! NO!
17:45<TrueBrain>welcome to 2007
17:45<TrueBrain>DEAD = DEAR
17:45<TrueBrain>hehe, nice typo
17:45<svip>:P
17:45<nckomodo>ahhaha they're getting annoyed now
17:45<svip>Indeed.
17:45<OB>ah, good stuff
17:45<OB>thankyou
17:45<Gunrun>so there was no binary all along?
17:45<svip>You are not that common with /bin/bash are you?
17:45|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0C4BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:45<TrueBrain>nckomodo: no wonder with people who can't even understand common logic :p
17:45<Gunrun>god OB and you call yourself a linux user : /
17:45<OB>not that common no
17:46<TrueBrain>any howto would have shown him what he needed to do
17:46<OB>really?
17:46<svip>:P
17:46<Gunrun>see, with windows it would just be Unzip, then run
17:46<OB>well, I guess I fail ;)
17:46<svip>That is not true, TrueBrain.
17:46<TrueBrain>okay: any related howto :p
17:46<svip>Indeed.
17:46<OB>I looked for ages on the wiki
17:46<OB>found nothing
17:46<Eddi|zuHause3>i suffer from severe lag here...
17:46<svip>It took me just as long to find the page about the IRC channel.
17:46[~]TrueBrain gives Eddi|zuHause3 an anti-lag injection
17:46<OB>god damn it's cold here
17:46<svip>You sure are hiding it.
17:46<OB>got a fix for that?
17:46<svip>Yes.
17:46<svip>Radiators.
17:47<Gunrun>svip I found him the IRC channel
17:47<OB>I'll get right on that
17:47<svip>cd /sys/radiators
17:47<OB>ah, much warmer now
17:47<svip>Hm.
17:47<TrueBrain>OB: it is debian game policy
17:47<Gunrun>anyone know why my sound effects are stuttery and shit by the way
17:47<Gunrun>since I am here?
17:47<OB>TrueBrain, what policy?
17:47<Gunrun>running windows openTTD
17:47<TrueBrain>OB: any game you install on Debian ends up there
17:47<OB>oh right
17:47<svip>Policy? Or philosophy?
17:47<OB>lol
17:48<TrueBrain>svip: how hard was it to press 'Contact' on openttd.org, and look at the bottom of the page?
17:48<TrueBrain>svip: policy
17:48<svip>It is very hard.
17:48<svip>Ugh.
17:48<svip>Got any good tuts for writing a patch?
17:49<svip>I'm "sorta" going to base it on this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9201
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17:50<Gunrun>Anyone know a way to improve my sound in this game?
17:51<TrueBrain>k, I wrote minesweeper in 30 minutes, while talking to you guys
17:51<TrueBrain>not bad :p
17:51<Gunrun>at the moment stuff like train noises are stuttery
17:51<svip>:/
17:51<svip>Apparently no good tuts.
17:51<Gunrun>well, not stuttery, more like they have small gaps in
17:51<Eddi|zuHause3>Gunrun: i know the problem, you use windows...
17:51<svip>Perhaps some Windows channel?
17:52<Gunrun>Eddi|zuHause3 why would that matter?
17:52<svip>Here it comes.
17:52<Eddi|zuHause3>because!
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3>hmm... freecol is a very nice game, but it gets very frustrating, if the price of cloths drops below the price of cotton :p
17:54<Gunrun>you would think an open version of transport tycoon would use OpenAL or something
17:54<+glx>Gunrun: there's a post about that on the forum
17:54<TrueBrain>Gunrun: add it!
17:54<Gunrun>TrueBrain I can't even program in basic let alone whatever this uses
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>what's OpenAL?
17:54<TrueBrain>Open Audio Library
17:54<Gunrun>OpenAL is an Open source audio library
17:55<TrueBrain>just a guess
17:55<+glx>Gunrun: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=618298#p618298
17:55<Gunrun>like OpenGL
17:55<TrueBrain>I guess it is a good one :p
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>ah...
17:55<Eddi|zuHause3>do we need that?
17:55<Gunrun>I'll give that a go glx
17:55<Gunrun>well, its better than directsound in Windows
17:55<ln->"ist eine plattformunabhängige 3D-Audio-API, die hauptsächlich zur Spieleentwicklung geschaffen wurde, aber auch in verschiedensten Audioanwendungen Verwendung findet."
17:55<Gunrun>because vista doesn't have directsound anymore
17:55<Gunrun>plus its less CPU intensive, and cross platform
17:56<ln->do we care about vista?
17:56<svip>Nah.
17:56<svip>I guess not.
17:56<Gunrun>you should do considering lots of people use it
17:56<Eddi|zuHause3>i am assuming that the openttd sound uses the remnants of the ttdwin sound...
17:56<ln->Gunrun: isn't that more like their own problem and not ours?
17:56<Gunrun>glx cheers, that fix worked brilliantly
17:56<svip>Careless, Eddi|zuHause3, you still need a library to output it.
17:57<ln->besides, Vista 2.0 will be out in october.
17:57<Gunrun>Huh?
17:57<svip>With Leopard?
17:57<ln->OS X Leopard.
17:57<svip>Oh.
17:57<svip>:/ I first got the joke now.
17:57<Gunrun>Yes because OSX is fantastic for games
17:57<svip>openttd runs on OSX.
17:57<svip>What more could you ask for?
17:58<Gunrun>Half Life 2, Red Orchestra, Company of Heroes, Bioshock, Quakewars
17:58<svip>Uuuh...
17:58<Gunrun>IL2, Lock On
17:58<svip>OpenTTD, please.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause3>freecol is a java program, it will most likely run also
17:58<svip>OpenTTD > the sum of the games you mentioned.
17:58<@Bjarni><EddizuHause3> 語 <- how do you write such a "letter"? it's gonna take ages... <--- it's not as bad as you might think. This letter indicate "speech" or "(spoken) language". Notice how many letters it represents.
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17:58<Gunrun>no, OpenTTD = an interesting way of running a game I played more than 10 years ago, which just happens to work under Windows XP
17:58<svip>Indeed, they are not "letters".
17:59<@Bjarni>so yes, they take longer to write, but you will not have to write as many chars
17:59<ln->is there a (single) kanji for "there's a fly in my soup"?
17:59<Gunrun>anyway I shall leave before I start an argument
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17:59<svip>I think there is a single for being run over by a car, ln-.
17:59<svip>If that satisfies your needs.
17:59<ln->That could cause confusion at a restaurant.
18:00<@Bjarni>however ATC is written with 6 kanjis, so that's a damn long word (abnormally long)
18:00<Eddi|zuHause3>"ich möchte diesen teppich nicht kaufen. bitte."
18:00<svip>:> German.
18:00<Eddi|zuHause3>this will certainly get you a beer :)
18:01<svip>Meh.
18:01<svip>:> I am the inventor of my own language.
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i'll explain: the literal translation is "i do not want to buy this carpet. please"
18:01<@Bjarni>oh sorry. It's 8, not 6
18:01<@Bjarni>自動列車制御装置
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>it is from a german commercial
18:01<@Bjarni>I prefer to write ATC ;)
18:01<Eddi|zuHause3>where some tourists sit in a beer garden
18:02|-|_Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F98A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:02<Eddi|zuHause3>and when the waitress comes, they read that sentence from their phrasebook
18:02<ln->"if i told you you have a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"
18:02<@Bjarni>nice one
18:02<svip>"My nipples explode with delight"?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause3>the waitress says "passt scho[n]", meaning "alright", and returns with a beer for each of the tourists
18:03<@Bjarni>reminds me of the bash quote about a guy, who was arrested and told that "everything you say will be held against you" and then he said "tits" to the female cop
18:03<+glx>nice one :)
18:04<svip>:P
18:05<@Bjarni>I don't think it worked as he hoped, but he might be kept at the police station for a while though
18:05<svip>But seriously, no one is willing to point me in the right direction for writing a patch?
18:05<@Bjarni>->
18:05<@Bjarni>that's the right direction
18:05<svip>:P You are a funny man, Smedly, funny man.
18:05<Eddi|zuHause3>there's a german-bash quote where a guy sees a policeman with dog, and asks him, if he can borrow the dog because he misplaced his weed :p
18:05|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0C4BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<@Bjarni>LOL
18:06<svip>I am under the impression that Eddi|zuHause3 is German.
18:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10949 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (airportsextended.grf sprites/airportsextended.nfo):
18:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Intercontinental airport.
18:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Helicopters now smoother.
18:07<@Bjarni>[00:57:45] <svip> openttd runs on OSX.
18:07<@Bjarni>[00:57:49] <svip> What more could you ask for? <-- how about leopard support? (I'm still unsure if it will work. I know of at least one possible issue)
18:07<svip>64 bit?
18:07<@Bjarni>no
18:07<svip>Well... then?
18:07<svip>I'm curious.
18:07<@Bjarni>decapriated functions
18:07<@Bjarni>in cocoa_v.mm
18:07<svip>Uh.
18:08<svip>No backwards compatible?
18:08<@Bjarni>and it's a rewrite to fix that, hence the reason why it has been an issue for ages :s
18:08<svip>:s
18:08<svip>Cause rewrites are boring.
18:08<@Bjarni>not only that
18:09<@Bjarni>it's the video driver. Nobody is aware of how to write one without those functions and still produce an acceptable speed
18:09<TrueBrain># delete OSX
18:09<TrueBrain>solved!
18:10<svip>A completely unrelated question, is there any project about adding personal cars to the roads in OpenTTD?
18:10<@Bjarni>well, I have one workaround if it turns out to be an issue: leopard should have the same ability as tiger to crosscompile to earlier OSX versions, so if we fake it to target 10.4 on 10.5, then it should work
18:10<@Bjarni>svip: AFAIK no
18:11<svip>:> Then my idea is not that bad.
18:11<@Bjarni>TrueBrain: I prefer my solution over your solution :p (who would have guessed)
18:11<svip>I did write a small read up upon the ideas for my patch.
18:11<svip>:/ If anyone's interested that is.
18:11|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77EEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:12<@Bjarni>now you are ambitious
18:12<svip>I know.
18:12<svip>I want to reshape this world.
18:12<svip>I am not pleased by the shape of the United States.
18:12<@Bjarni>you want to make it square?
18:12<svip>That too.
18:12<TrueBrain>svip: load the heightmap in OpenTTD and do it!
18:12<svip>:P
18:13<svip>Here it is anyway: http://sviip.dk/random/cftm.html
18:13<TrueBrain>Blue Dragon.. 3 DVDs..
18:13<TrueBrain>OMG!
18:13<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/heightmaps/test40.png <- here you can reshape england!
18:14|-|Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B76605.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:14<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/heightmaps/test102.png <- the Netherlands?
18:14<svip>Looks like it.
18:14<svip>But most of the Netherlands are below sealevel.
18:14<TrueBrain>no, the questionmark was not that I don't know what it is
18:14|-|elmex [~elmex@e180065188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:14<svip>Then what?
18:14<TrueBrain>it was ment as: you want to reshape that?
18:14[~]Sacro pokes Bjarni
18:14<svip>Nah.
18:14<svip>The Netherlands is awesome.
18:14<@Bjarni>I know what it is: it's TrueBrainia
18:15<svip>A fictional country inhabited by Orcs.
18:15<svip>East of Mordor.
18:15<@Bjarni>ruled by TrueBrain, right?
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>if at all, TrueOrcs
18:15<@Bjarni>yeah, sounds like that's the one
18:16[~]Bjarni shoots Sacro
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>and they have a cavetroll :p
18:16<@Bjarni>don't interrupt with your urges
18:16<TrueBrain>would give me a TLD of .tb
18:16<TrueBrain>would be cool :)
18:16<TrueBrain>www.soon.tb
18:16<TrueBrain>:)
18:17<@Bjarni>tb = Unknown <-- it's available?
18:18<Phazorx>td as in tbd ?
18:19<@Bjarni>be careful about creating fictional countries. Some Swede did that online (telling about a location in Sweden he called something else). It resulted in around 100 asylum seekers from the Middle East and Africa.... the country is not there!!!!
18:19<@Bjarni>it's fictional
18:19<@Bjarni>but people applied like it's real
18:19<@Bjarni>ok, that's a way to end up in the news, but still...
18:20<TrueBrain>not really suprising or anything
18:21<TrueBrain>people go and see HarryPotter stuff all over England
18:21<TrueBrain>I mean: GET A LIFE!
18:21<TrueBrain>(or download one!)
18:21<TrueBrain>so who wants to play my CLI MineSweeper? :p
18:21|-|Nickman [~d988b9e9@207.250.49.6] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)]
18:22<+glx>HP style or windows style?
18:22<TrueBrain>HP?
18:22<+glx>the one on HP48
18:23<TrueBrain>I have no idea where you are talking about
18:23<@Bjarni>where can I download a life?
18:23<@Bjarni>(and I don't mean 2nd life)
18:24<+glx>TrueBrain: you should go from A to B without "touching" the mines
18:24<TrueBrain>ah, then the Windows style :p
18:25<svip> <@Bjarni> but people applied like it's real << That's why they created Wikipedia.
18:26<+glx>wikipedia tells the truth
18:26<+glx>;)
18:26<svip>:)
18:27<svip>What I am really wondering about is how long before someone in here starts making [citation needed] jokes.
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>why would anyone do that?
18:27<TrueBrain>!joke
18:27<svip>They do everywhere.
18:27<TrueBrain>bah, I disabled it in this channel
18:28<svip>Oh.
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>you better did :p
18:28<ln->Wikipedism is mental illness.
18:28<svip>I thought he meant "!joke" as in "not joke".
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18:32<TrueBrain>http://paste.openttd.org/202
18:32<TrueBrain>glx: that game :p
18:33<+glx>I wrote one in z80 asm
18:33<+glx>(HP version)
18:34<svip>Now, TrueBrain.
18:34<svip>Write it with hexagons. :D
18:35<TrueBrain>No, now what I am going to do is create an AI that solves it, via GP :)
18:35<TrueBrain>and why? Well... just because I can
18:35<svip>And implement it into OpenTTD for no reason at all?
18:35<TrueBrain>yeah, why not
18:36<+glx>but the console is too small
18:36<TrueBrain>I just wrote 9000 letters :p Hehe :)
18:36<svip>glx, nah, just use the map as the play ground.
18:36<svip>Take 10x10 tiles on the game map.
18:36<svip>And turn them into a game of minesweeper.
18:37<TrueBrain>sounds like a nice joke :)
18:38<svip>And if you find a bomb, it explodes, and all the other bombs you didn't find explodes, and replaces themselves with lighthouses, so you can't remove them. :D
18:38<Phazorx>"OpenTTD is coming to afganistan - now ther eis 1% chance of mine and train derailing as you lay and use tracks"
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>i just have this picture in mind of a warcraft 3 kind of minigame where you have to steer a locomotive over some tracks without being blown up or attackt by ufos :p
18:39|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
18:39<svip>"Your plane was captured by terrorists."
18:39<TrueBrain>how the hell did my private blog turn up in Google?
18:39<Phazorx>svip they crash pretty often as is
18:40<TrueBrain>spam-bots have find it....
18:40<svip>:P
18:40<svip>Do as I do.
18:40<Phazorx>but, you might ened spyplanes for finding hijacked trains
18:40<svip>Write your own software.
18:40<svip>So spam-bots have no idea how to use it.
18:40|-|XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.]
18:40<TrueBrain>even so, omg....
18:40<TrueBrain>I never ever linked it once
18:40<TrueBrain>so one of my friends did :(
18:40<Phazorx>TrueBrain: is it WP based?
18:41<TrueBrain>yes :(
18:41<svip>Then WP linked to it.
18:41<TrueBrain>no, I disabled that
18:41<svip>Through their secret "we know where your live" database.
18:41<Phazorx>ever thought that masterlinking goes into their directory?
18:41<svip>-r
18:41<svip>You "disabled" that.
18:41<svip>And the United States brought "freedom" to Iraq.
18:41<TrueBrain>yeah, PHP doesn't allow http :)
18:41<svip>Right right?
18:42<Phazorx>TrueBrain: i'm pretty sure "call home" is part of WP that you should have if you agree to their licencing terms
18:42<TrueBrain>but okay, I need a new blog-system anyway
18:42<Phazorx>TrueBrain: they do it via referes
18:42<svip>Probably uses some javascript.
18:42<Phazorx>from syndicated newsfeed
18:42<svip>:O
18:43<svip>I need to watch the Lord of the Rings 2 again soon.
18:43<TrueBrain>anyway, it didn't had any spam-bots for over a year
18:43<TrueBrain>now I stopped posting on it, and spam-bots come...
18:43<svip>Magically.
18:43<TrueBrain>funny :p
18:43<svip>:P
18:44<svip>I am writing my own board software.
18:44<svip>So far.
18:44<TrueBrain>now I need to write my own byte language
18:44<svip>Not a single spam bot to be seen.
18:44<Phazorx>i dont think language would do anything
18:44<Phazorx>bots are content sensetive
18:44<Phazorx>theiy dont really care what you run on backend
18:45<svip>Not entirely.
18:45<svip>One of my friends got a lot of requests for pages that didn't exist.
18:46<svip>Would have on usual board software.
18:46<svip>But not on mine.
18:46<Phazorx>that is not spam, that are indirect attacks
18:46<Phazorx>silly though
18:46<svip>They usually assume forum id "1".
18:46<Phazorx>my sitest get scanend for MS vulnerabilities all the time
18:47<svip>http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=62217&in_page_id=34&ito=newsnow
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19:07<@Bjarni>LOL
19:07<svip>:> I knew it was your kind of humour, Bjarni.
19:07<@Bjarni>you have no idea how many odd things people who up with at hospitals
19:08<svip>But you didn't look at link I posted before?
19:08<svip>And not the dwarf one.
19:08<@Bjarni>reminds me of a guy, who was refueling his car and he got his finger jammed in the opening. He ended up at the hospital to get his finger free from the part of the car, they had cut out to move it with him
19:08<TrueBrain>hmm, a girlfriend calling you doesn't help in the: try-to-code-this-as-fast-as-you-can attempt
19:09<@Bjarni>heh
19:09<TrueBrain>Bjarni: if you would give me 1 dollar for every time you say: 'reminds me of', I truely would be rich by now
19:09<svip>Hmm, that you have a girlfriend is more surprising.
19:09<TrueBrain>@kick svip go fish
19:09|-|svip kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [go fish]
19:09|-|svip [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:09<svip>He is too easy. :)
19:10<@Bjarni>TrueBrain: hmm.... maybe I say it a bit too often then
19:10<TrueBrain>Bjarni: just maybe, yes
19:10<TrueBrain>anyway, writing a byte-language sucks
19:10<@Bjarni>we can't have that you end up getting rich because of something I do :p
19:10<svip>Would be nice though.
19:11<svip>You also nicely refrain from answering my question. :)
19:12<@Bjarni><svip> But you didn't look at link I posted before? <-- the road idea one or ?
19:12<svip>Yes.
19:12<TrueBrain>hmm, creating a byte-language for minesweep is really much more tricky then I assumed :(
19:12<@Bjarni>CFTM
19:12<svip>Your recall of the acronym assumes you did.
19:12<@Bjarni>I looked briefly at it and then thought "the best idea is the last"
19:13<svip>The Zoning one?
19:13<@Bjarni>making some sort of highlight of where you are allowed to build
19:13<svip>Yeah.
19:13[~]Phazorx recall his mineswepper clone to be 1st computer game he ever made
19:13<svip>I actually wondered when I thought of that why there wasn't one already.
19:13<@Bjarni>I wouldn't know how to make it work nicely with the 8 bit graphic engine though
19:14<svip>Border highlighting?
19:14<svip>Like the usual markers.
19:17<@Bjarni>it's getting late
19:17<@Bjarni>sane people would be sleeping right now
19:17[~]Bjarni tries to join sanity
19:17<TrueBrain>that explains a few things
19:17<@Bjarni>goodnight
19:18<TrueBrain>night
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19:31<Digitalfox>TrueBrain: "creating a byte-language for minesweep is really much more tricky then I assumed" you are trying??
19:31<Digitalfox>Why? :\
19:31<TrueBrain>just a littlle experiment I wanted to do for the longest time
19:34<TrueBrain> SetCode(&code, MineSweeper::CODE_DEC_A, 1);
19:34<TrueBrain> SetCode(&code, MineSweeper::CODE_GET, 0);
19:34<TrueBrain> SetCode(&code, MineSweeper::CODE_IF_EQ, 12);
19:34<TrueBrain> SetCode(&code, MineSweeper::CODE_ADD_D, 1);
19:34<TrueBrain>hehe
19:34|-|SmatZ__ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
19:34<Digitalfox>I was reading the log, and read that, so i was curious on what you were going to do with it :)
19:34|-|SmatZ__ changed nick to SmatZ
19:35<TrueBrain>I want to make a Genetic Program that finds a way to solve MineSweeper
19:35<Digitalfox>lol
19:35<TrueBrain>of course it is idiotic
19:35<TrueBrain>but you have to do something when you are bored
19:35<Digitalfox>You are spending time on that? Don't tell me you are bored or you can't win the game ;)
19:36<Digitalfox>( actually i never won the game, since i only played twice ) ... :)
19:36<TrueBrain>the game is just a random game I picked
19:36<TrueBrain>I assumed the rules would be simple
19:36<TrueBrain>they in fact are, just 3 base commands
19:36<TrueBrain>I just forgot it needs tons of logic-functions
19:37<Digitalfox>:)
19:37<Digitalfox>Did you see this movie already? http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1770138
19:37<Digitalfox>It is perfect for you TrueBrain ;)
19:38|-|SmatZ_ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:39<TrueBrain>it does :p
19:40<Digitalfox>You like it?
19:40<Digitalfox>*Did you like it?
19:40<TrueBrain>it is funny
19:42<Digitalfox>I think it's very well done.. Normally videos made by people just for some fun aren't really professional ones, but this one is verry well done IMO :)
19:42<TrueBrain>omg, this minesweeper is going to be so much harder then I assumed :s
19:42<svip>http://www.isarapix.com/pix4/1187570556.png << Dunno if that works.
19:43<Digitalfox>gn
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19:48<TrueBrain>okay, I can make some logic in this byte-language now
19:48<TrueBrain>would it be sufficient :s
19:49<TrueBrain>oh well, nightynight all!
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20:09<Hendrix>hy
20:09<SmatZ>hi
20:09<Hendrix>what is the newest version of ttd
20:09<Hendrix>??
20:10<svip>Depends on what you mean.
20:10<svip>Your question is extremely vague.
20:10<Hendrix>is it ottd or ttd??
20:10<svip>You said "ttd". I don't think ttd is developed any more.
20:10<svip>"ottd", please.
20:10<SmatZ>depends ... 0.5.2 stable, 0.5.3 rc2 prerelease, r10946 nightly build, r10949 svn build
20:11<Hendrix>can someone give me some patches for graphics and vehicles?
20:12<Hendrix>i've downloaded ottd 0.4.7
20:12<SmatZ>Hendrix: some GRFs are there -> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/GRF
20:12<SmatZ>0.4.7 is so old
20:12<+glx>first update to at least 0.5.2
20:12<SmatZ>I doubt new GRFs will work with that version
20:12<Hendrix>where do i get 0.5.2?
20:12<SmatZ>*all
20:12<svip>www.openttd.org
20:12<svip>Click the "download" link.
20:13<Hendrix>thnx
20:14<Hendrix>OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files in order to function.
20:14<Hendrix>what that means?
20:15<SmatZ>Hendrix: OTTD needs original graphic and sound files
20:15|-|Dark_Link^sleep [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:15<SmatZ>copy your *.grf and sample.cat into ottd/data directory
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20:16<Hendrix>my ottd works good without anything else
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20:17<SmatZ>Hendrix: well I don't know where you have your ottd copy from... maybe it contains the required files, but distributing that is most likely illegal
20:18<Hendrix>khm
20:18<Hendrix>ok
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20:31<Hendrix>does someone haves some interesting savegames?
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20:44<Hendrix>where do i have to put *.grf files that i could used them in game?
20:47<Eddi|zuHause2>lots of places... easiest would be a subdirectory of the data directory
20:47|-|Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-232-40.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>i.e. go to the data directory, create a directory called newgrf (or whatever you like) and put the grf files there
20:48<Eddi|zuHause2>then the game should detect them and you can choose them from the newgrf settings dialog
20:49<Eddi|zuHause2>assuming you really did get 0.5.2
20:49<Eddi|zuHause2>this will not work in 0.4.*
20:49<Hendrix>can i get grf files for buildings?
20:50<Eddi|zuHause2>no, support for them is not in 0.5, but will be in 0.6 (or the nightlies)
20:50<Hendrix>thanx
20:51<Hendrix>whot about for roads?
20:51<Hendrix>or railways?
20:51<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, those should work
20:52<Eddi|zuHause2>and no, industry grfs will not work...
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20:52<Hendrix>where can i get road grfs?
20:53<Hendrix>i put the grf files in newgrf file but ottd cennot recognize them
20:53<Hendrix>only in data folder
20:54<Hendrix>newgrf folder*
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20:56<Ammller>Hendrix: is the newgrf folder a subdir of data?
20:57<Hendrix>of what data?
20:57<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10950 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Helicopters need slightly different rotated position data to pinpoint their landings on the rotated helipads.
20:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10951 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (airportsextended.grf sprites/airportsextended.nfo): [NewGRF_ports] -Add: Three alternative rotations for Helidepot.
21:00<Hendrix>CIA-2: i don't understand you
21:00<Eddi|zuHause2>i kinda doubt he will care :p
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23:59<Smoky555>hi all :)
---Logclosed Mon Aug 20 00:00:21 2007