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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-21

---Logopened Tue Aug 21 00:03:07 2007
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02:03<Lachie>hey
02:03<Lachie>I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me?
02:04<manveru>Lachie: if you don't ask you'll never know
02:05<Lachie>true.
02:06<Lachie>Are there any figures available for what a 24/7 server would use bandwidth and performance wise, on average?
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02:08<Phazorx>Lachie: really depends on many factors
02:08<Phazorx>empty server will use almost none of eaither
02:09<Lachie>like I said, on average.
02:09<Phazorx>really hard to say
02:09<Phazorx>cpu consumption is high for complex games, bandwith usage is always low tho
02:09<Lachie>okay, worst case scenario, shall we say?
02:10<Lachie>max players, spectators even, on a big map.
02:10<Phazorx>networking has little overhead
02:10<Phazorx>even 10 players connected are not major factor in performances unless thre is no vicles in the game
02:11<Lachie>I'm more interested how much bandwidth it would use per month ;)
02:11<Phazorx>but depending on circumstances i'd say 2000 trains will max out 3Ghz machine
02:11<Lachie>looking at hosting a 24/7 community server here at home, wondering if my plan will handle it.
02:11<Phazorx>Lachie: 10 connected players use ~5kb/s
02:11<Phazorx>a conencting client downloads the map
02:12<Phazorx>if you will have often reconnects for any reason - more map DLs
02:12<Phazorx>map can be as little as 20k and as big as 6meg
02:12<Lachie>aye
02:13<Phazorx>averaging is really a toughty
02:13<Lachie>aye
02:13<Phazorx>too many parameters
02:13<Lachie>under 10GB per month?
02:14<Lachie>(can't be bothered with the maths atm xD)
02:14<Phazorx>depends, but possibly in most cases it will be
02:14<Lachie>thanks for the help
02:14<Lachie>I'm WhiteHand, btw.
02:15<Phazorx>i thought you are Lachie....
02:15<Lachie>'tis my IRC nick.
02:15<Lachie>WhiteHand is my forums name ;)
02:15<Phazorx>i see
02:16<Phazorx>5KB/s = ~370MB/mo
02:17<Lachie>heh
02:17<Lachie>fair enough
02:17<Phazorx>say your map is 1M on average and you have 100 ppl connecting daily - 3G/mo
02:18<Phazorx>5KB/s is unlikely even, since 10 ppl wont be on your server all time
02:18<Lachie>hmm, considering 100 peeps is a very rich estimation for a community server like mine will be, that should do just fine.
02:18<Lachie>cheers
02:18<Phazorx>coopers server is the only one i seen ful for any substantial amounts of time
02:18<Lachie>aye
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02:20<Lachie>if I were to run a literally dedicated OTTD server (ie. nothing else running at all) what sort of specs would you think I'd need?
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03:19<Maedhros>morning
03:19<@Bjarni>morning
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04:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10956 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (10 files in 3 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Codechange: start refactoring the airport specific code to be more generic so it can be used for non-aircraft ports too.
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04:24<Noldo>Rubidium: I noticed you had used CommandCost toguard a multiplication against overflow in strings.cpp when converting currencies
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04:40<Rubidium>yeah, it's not very nice, but it does the job (and it doesn't duplicate code)
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04:42<Noldo>Rubidium: the not-niceness hit me quite hard :)
04:43<Noldo>I can work around it very easily, so it's not a big problem
04:44<Noldo>but it makes it a bit less nice
04:44<@Bjarni>Noldo: if you think you can make the code nice and it still works without any sideeffects, then go ahead and try
04:45<@Bjarni>you make it sound like a simple task
04:45<@Bjarni>it might be if you get the right idea to do it
04:46<Noldo>sorry, I didn't mean to sound like that
04:47<Noldo>and of cource being hit by the not-niceness was 75% my own fault
04:47<Noldo>20% was c++'s
04:47<@Bjarni>I didn't mean to indicate that you were rude or anything. It would be constructive if you found a way to improve the code readability without hurting anything else
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04:48<@Bjarni>we can use increased readability in the source
04:49<Rubidium>especially in the area of autore* ;)
04:49<@Bjarni>I have a plan about that area
04:49<Noldo>Money is now typedeffed to int64, is it out of the question to make it a class?
04:50<@Bjarni>I'm not sure it will work fast enough to satisfy myself though, so I'm still working on it
04:50<@Bjarni>why would you make it a class?
04:50<Rubidium>Noldo: no, but it could (again) cause unwanted side effects
04:50<Noldo>true, and will propably be quite a lot of work
04:51<@Bjarni>I fail to see benefits from making it a class :/
04:51<@Bjarni>it just needs to store a single number. That's what ints are for
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04:52<Rubidium>Bjarni: you could override multiply, add, divide and substract functions with a class
04:52<@Bjarni>hmm... good point
04:53<@Bjarni>so basically it could automatically set the cost in the stats when you just do "p->money -= v->cost"?
04:53<Noldo>the multiplication was in my mind too
04:54<Noldo>that feels like streching it a bit too much
04:54<@Bjarni>what would the benefit be to multiply differently than standard multiplications?
04:54<Noldo>overflow protection
04:54<@Bjarni>ahh
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04:58<Noldo>also part of the suprice effect I had was caused by Money being implicitly casted to StringID
05:00<Noldo>maybe I will just start a new working copy and see if how much work it would be to make Money a class
05:02<Nickman>hi all
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05:06<Noldo>hi
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05:13<Smoky555>hi ! does anybody know, OpenTTD-SVN maillist is working or not? i have 2 subscription addresses, but i recieve nothing since 10930 announce ...
05:14<Rubidium>TrueBrain: ^^^
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05:19<YOYO-NL>sigh suse is driving me nuts :P
05:23<Rubidium>poor YOYO-NL
05:23<Rubidium>what isn't it doing?
05:24<YOYO-NL>it keeps saying it doenst have the right permissions
05:24<YOYO-NL>for the make cmd
05:24<@Bjarni>!openttd commit 10931
05:24<_42_>Commit by rubidium :: r10931 /trunk/src/station.cpp (2007-08-18 22:56:58 UTC)
05:24<YOYO-NL>chmoded the map 56 times
05:24<_42_>-Fix [FS#1131]: when a station was destroyed and a vehicle was still loading, changing the current order of the loading vehicle caused a crash. This could happen with removing docks and oil rigs.
05:25<@Bjarni>!openttd commit 10930
05:25<_42_>Commit by richk :: r10930 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (seaplaneport.grf sprites/seaplaneport.nfo sprites/seaplaneport.pcx) (2007-08-18 00:48:24 UTC)
05:25<_42_>[NewGRF_ports] -Fix: seaplaneport.grf was only available in temperate.
05:25<_42_>-Change: runway numbers for water runways now in blue/teal.
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05:37<Rubidium>how did you chmod the map?
05:41<YOYO-NL>chmod -R 777 /windows/D/OpenTTDServer
05:44<Rubidium>you probably need to mount that partition differently so you can write to it
05:44<YOYO-NL>i can write on it :)
05:45<Rubidium>apparantly not everywhere
05:45<YOYO-NL>hmm well the strange thing is that it seems to affect only the lang files
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05:46<YOYO-NL>as you can see on http://paste.openttd.org/204
05:47<Rubidium>that's not your only problem though
05:48<Rubidium>anyhow, what does "ls -l strgen/strgen" give return? (in /win/D/ottd/)
05:50<YOYO-NL>-rwxrwxrwx 1 root users 29138 Aug 20 16:29 strgen/strgen
05:53<Rubidium>strange
05:53<Rubidium>you can "just" run strgen/strgen?
05:53<Maedhros>what does the output of `mount` say about that partition?
05:54<YOYO-NL>uhhm mean from the partition manager of the fstab file?
05:55<YOYO-NL>ah
05:55<YOYO-NL>wait i passte it
05:56<YOYO-NL>http://paste.openttd.org/205
05:56<Maedhros>yeah, /win/D is mounted "noexec", which means you can't run strgen on it
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05:57<Maedhros>you either need to remount it without noexec, or if you can't do that with ntfs, compile openttd on a different partition
05:57<YOYO-NL>hmmm with a remount
05:58<YOYO-NL>i need to reset the permissions for the disk again? or do they keep preserved?
05:59<Maedhros>i have no idea. if it was a native filesystem the permissions would be preserved, but...
06:00<YOYO-NL>hmmm moving through mount option aint stumbeling on a option wich had anything to do with the exec cmd
06:01<YOYO-NL>or do i have to place exec in the fstab option line?
06:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10957 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (9 files): [NewGRF_ports] -Codechange: reduce the dependency on AT_XXX enums and airport_type.
06:01<Maedhros>je ne sais pas. look at the ntfs-3g manpage ;)
06:03<YOYO-NL>k
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>i really think you should be migrating to another FS
06:06<Rubidium>FAT12 ;)
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
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06:10<YOYO-NL>lawl
06:10<YOYO-NL>thats verry old
06:10<YOYO-NL>but i agree
06:10<YOYO-NL>would be better
06:11<YOYO-NL>if it was only for the security :)
06:11<Smoky555>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10957 ... - nothing in SVN-Mailing-List :(
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>FAT12 can only handle 2MB or so...
06:11<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: rather 32 MiB
06:12<YOYO-NL>some say fat32 has also a limmit
06:12<YOYO-NL>but other reach 160 GB with there disk in fat32
06:12<Rubidium>yes, like a 4 GB file size limit
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>!calc 2^11
06:13<_42_>Eddi|zuHause: 2048;
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>2MB with a 512B cluster size (=1 sector)
06:14<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: you can stilll have larger clusters
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>i have never seen that option for FAT12
06:15<Rubidium>it's what the wiki says (could be wrong though)
06:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, it is probably not very useful anyway...
06:16<Rubidium>:O
06:17<Rubidium>windows formats < 16 MB volumes still as fat12
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have never ever seen a drive between 2MB and 32MB
06:21<Rubidium>I have
06:21<Rubidium>ok, it's a flash drive, but it was 16 MB "large"
06:22<YOYO-NL>aint preserving its perm. Well just have to fix that i guess :)
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>YOYO-NL: there's probably also a default permission mount option
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>"umask" possibly
06:25<YOYO-NL>thats correct
06:25<YOYO-NL>need to reset that one in order to keep acces
06:25<YOYO-NL>standard is 0002
06:25<YOYO-NL>has to be 0000
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>or change owner/group at mount time
06:28<YOYO-NL>wel one disk is formatted to ext3
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how your free disk space is distributed, but if you can get a partition half empty, you can reduce it to half size, and create a new partition in the empty space, then copy everything, replace first partition, copy everything back, remove second partition, resize first partition to maximum
06:37<Noldo>new disk is the solution
06:38<YOYO-NL>lol
06:40<Rubidium>Noldo: "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc bs=1048576" works quite efficiently too
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06:51<Fang>Hellooooooo nurse?
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06:54<Fang>welcome back Eddi :)
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07:03<Fang>Hmmm... A lot of people on this channel for it to be this quiet... Shame...
07:06<Noldo>most are just extras
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07:06<Fang>extras?
07:06<Noldo>like in the movies
07:07<Fang>heh... didn't know you could get hired to be that online :P easy money :P
07:07<Maedhros>heh, if only :)
07:08<Noldo>I think they are mostly motivated by the cause
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07:09<Fang>well having people show support for the cause is also a good thing of course... I'm new to the whole IRC thing myself (logged on for the first time a few hours ago) and I only a week ago or so discovered OpenTTD...
07:10<Fang>when reading about the IRC channel for it I just wanted to come check it out... plus hoping to have some (probably rather silly and newbie-like) questions answered that I couldn't find anything about on the wiki... and I did search there for several days :P
07:11<Noldo>idling is part of the irc culture
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07:11<Fang>I'll have to work on that skill then :P
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07:12<Maedhros>it's also best to just ask questions - you might find people coming out of the woodwork to answer them :)
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>is there actually an #idlerpg here?
07:12<Nameeater>anyone here run autopilot and able to get it to actually connect to an irc server?
07:13[~]Fang has felt a bit scared and intimidated to pose newbie-questions about the OpenTTD-project that's not useful on a technical level...
07:14<Maedhros>don't worry about that - we're pretty friendly in here
07:14<Fang>I guess I can always risk it and if ppl bite my head off or flame me away for being in the wrong location then I can go hide under my duvet :P
07:15<Fang>well... I have no coding or graphical experience to speak off... but I'm very excited about the OpenTTD project... TTD was one of my all-time favourite games ever... so this version and functionality rules :D... I was wondering what the future plans of it is though... I read the roadmap on the wiki, but that's rather limited and short...
07:17<Fang>specifically I noticed it has the NewGRF functionality so users can create their own changes... but I was wondering if it is intended for future editions to always be supplied bare-minimum and then people have to pick their favourite GRF files created by others or themselves... or if there is some 'official' batch being made that is distributed and installed with the base program...
07:17<Fang>(I hope that made sense)
07:17<Maedhros>there's not going to be an official set of grfs that we distribute
07:18<Maedhros>it'll always be up to people to choose the grfs that suit them best
07:18<Maedhros>and we don't really have an overall goal that we're working towards
07:19<Maedhros>we just tend to find things that interest us and have a go at that :)
07:19<Fang>so future versions of the game will contain the same items/vehicles/buildings as the current version does?
07:19<Maedhros>yup
07:21<Fang>ah... understandable... bit of a shame from my viewpoint though... I was hoping the base game would be expanded in that respect as well as functionality...
07:22<Fang>they/you did add some things to the base game for distribution though... the new airports... how come those made it into the release and don't require someone to browse around and select a grf file for download and addition to the game?
07:23<Maedhros>because it's so much easier to hard-code airports into the game
07:23<Maedhros>but even now someone's working towards making it possible to supply newgrf airports
07:23<Fang>ah, so merely a convenience thing...
07:26<Fang>I guess I was just hoping for future releases to come with an 'officially endorsed and balanced grf vehicle set' that the 'OpenTTD project' include as they are balanced for game usage and meet the graphical quality standards and so forth...
07:27<Fang>maybe I'm the only one thinking along those lines and no-one else would want it :) Oh well :)
07:27<Maedhros>well, the original vehicles fit those criteria :p
07:28<Fang>heheheh, true :) and I do enjoy them tremendously :)
07:30<Fang>if someone is working towards making airports in newgrf files... does that mean future releases might have the currently new airports removed again and will require whichever newgrf file will contain them to be downloaded?
07:30<Maedhros>because they were part of the game, the newgrf containing them will probably be distributed with openttd
07:31<Fang>goody :D now entice some people to do the same with vehicles :P
07:31<Maedhros>airports were a special case, it's not going to happen again :p
07:32<Fang>heh... damn... I'll have to wait for someone out there to develop JUST the right grf file that meets my hopes...
07:34<Fang>I wish I could someone help and add to the project effort... it's truly one of my all-time favourite games and I was as excited as I was when I first played the game when I found this one online... but I don't suppose I have any skills to contribute...
07:36<Maedhros>back in a bit
07:36<Fang>bring me a sandwich back would ya :P
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07:52<svip>O_o
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08:03<svip>Is there an efficient way to loop through all the tiles within a specific viewport?
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08:17<svip>Anyone?
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08:32<frosch123>Hello
08:32<frosch123>Is a DC_QUERY_COST command send over the network and executed on every client?
08:34<@Belugas>svip, i think there are some macros around, in map.h , tile.h or something like that. can't remember exactly
08:34<@Belugas>hello frosch123
08:35<@Belugas>i don't have a clue about network comand, cannot help you
08:37<Fang>oooh, hello there again Belugas :) All fresh and awake again are you? :)
08:37<hylje>:3
08:39<@Belugas>kinda, Fang. I'm at work with a ton of stuff to do, i came late at work because i overdid it yesterday evening and my mug of coffee is not filled up yet :S
08:39<@Belugas>but hello to you too :)
08:40<Greyscale>How do you load and unload at an airport without it taking off, coming around and landing again?
08:41<+glx>Greyscale: don't use load or unload orders in this case
08:41<@Belugas>seems like a pretty silly idea, Greyscale. What's the point of it? Debugging?
08:42<Greyscale>I have a commercial passenger/mail flight from A to B
08:42<Greyscale>all it ever does is A to B
08:42<Greyscale>I want to drop off and pick up people at A, then drop and pickup at B
08:42<+glx>so as I said don't use Load or Unload
08:42<Greyscale>rinse repeat
08:42<Greyscale>TransfeR?
08:42<Greyscale>But then I made $0
08:43<+glx>nothing
08:43<+glx>just goto A and goto B
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08:43<Greyscale>...
08:43<Greyscale>fuck
08:43<Greyscale>I wish it was more obvious
08:43<YOYO-NL>lol
08:43<+glx>but they will only get available passenger and not wait for full load
08:43<Greyscale>thats fine
08:44<Greyscale>because I've got about 2000 people waiting and only 3 x 220 seats
08:46<@Belugas>ha... ok. since yu didn't mentionned A to B, I tough you wanted the plane(s) to work on one and only one airport...
08:46<@Belugas>i really need to empty up that mug...
08:46<+glx>Belugas: go get more coffee :)
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08:47<@Belugas>yeah, i think i need a lot more :S
08:49<YOYO-NL>lucky you tomorrow im dammed to a office with no computer communications at all. Stupid company pollicy
08:50<Fang>it's a company policy to deprive you of computer usage?
08:50<Fang>is this to prevent addition and check employees for withdrawl-symptoms?
08:50<YOYO-NL>dunno prolly abuse of the net ect ect
08:53<Noldo>I'm at work right now
09:43<svip>Hm, Bjarni.
09:43<svip>Not really.
09:43<svip>But I did find the Tile struct.
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09:44<svip>Which is basically what I need to get information about each tile. :o
09:46<svip>I just assume, Bjarni, that the viewport somehow stored the tiles within it.
09:46<svip>Or if you get a tile by checking if it was within the viewport's pixel range.
09:46<svip>Or hopefully the whole lot.
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10:34<@Bjarni>svip: err... what are you talking about? :)
10:34<svip>:/ Well...
10:34<svip>I don't want to ask every tile every time.
10:34<svip>So if the viewport could give me a set of tiles within its viewpoint, that would be nice.
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10:36<@peter1138>you lookup the viewport's position and size, then go from there
10:36<svip>But its size and position are pixels, right?
10:38<svip>peter1138: Still sounds like I have to loop through all tiles on the map to see if they exist within the viewport.
10:42<svip>And I did do my share on reading about the dpi in the viewport.
10:43<Maedhros>this sounds much more complicated than it needs to be, surely
10:43<svip>:( I know.
10:43<svip>But how do I get tiles when I have the position and size?
10:43<Maedhros>can't you see how station catchment areas work, and go from there?
10:43<svip>Huh?
10:43<svip>Station catchment?
10:44<@peter1138>if you know the viewport position you can get the map coordinates
10:44<@peter1138>therefore you can iterate over each tile in the viewport
10:44<svip>The viewport stores the map coordinates?
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10:44<@peter1138>well it's got to know what to draw some how
10:44<svip>Yeah, but I thought it used that *vp->dpi thingie.
10:45<svip>Which appears to be a pixel range, and not a map coordinate range.
10:45<@peter1138>that's the screen boundary
10:45<svip>Indeed.
10:45<svip>That's what I assumed.
10:45<svip>So instead of giving my function the vp->dpi, I should just give it the whole vp?
10:46<svip>:/ Wait, it's vd.dpi.
10:47<Maedhros>surely all you're doing is drawing boxes around tiles. that's done all over the place, including when building stations and showing the catchment area
10:47<Maedhros>and i don't think any of them worry about where the viewport is
10:47<svip>Indeed.
10:47<svip>But that's because they draw around a specific area.
10:47<svip>And I don't want to draw over the entire map at once.
10:47<svip>Too much load.
10:48<svip>While the station catchment is done relative to where the pointer is.
10:48<Maedhros>well, DrawTile is only called for tiles that are shown
10:48<Maedhros>so why not put your function in there?
10:49<svip>:o
10:49<svip>That is a splendid idea.
10:51<svip>Hm, Maedhros, I cannot seem to find a DrawTile idea, only a lot of variants.
10:53<Maedhros>it's part of ViewportAddLandscape, there isn't actually a DrawTile function it seems
10:54<svip>Ah.
10:54<svip>Within the do {} loops?
10:54<Maedhros>yes. draw_tile_proc calls the DrawTile_xxx functions
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a place to introduce proper virtual calls...
10:56<svip>Hm, so I could just add my function call after the "DrawTileSelection()" line?
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11:03<svip>What does TileIndex store?
11:03<+glx>the tile index in the maparray
11:04<+glx>it's just a number
11:04<svip>Okay.
11:04<svip>So I can use it to get information about the tile?
11:04<+glx>using the accessors yes
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11:05<svip>Can I get the Tile struct using the TileIndex?
11:05<svip>And which function is that?
11:06<Noldo>I wonder if I can make my custom class castable to something
11:06<svip>_m[tile], glx?
11:07<+glx>yes but use accessors
11:07<svip>Huh?
11:07<svip>Explain. It's been a while since I last entered the terminology of C.
11:07<+glx>GetTileTyp(tile) ...
11:07<svip>Ah.
11:08<+glx>we avoid direct access to the map so it's easier to modify the maparray later
11:08<svip>Ah, I see.
11:09<+glx>accessors are in*_map files
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11:11<Noldo>I don't know how nice it is but I needed to add .toint64() member to Money
11:12<+glx>Money is an int64 already
11:13<+glx>typedef int64 Money;
11:13<Noldo>not in my world ;)
11:14<Sacro>hmm
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11:18<@Belugas>[12:14] <Noldo> not in my world ;) <-- and which world would that be?
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11:21<Noldo>Belugas: it's the let's see how much work this random thing would be
11:21<Noldo>and this time the random thing is making Money a class
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11:22[~]Belugas does not want to know anything more :P I've have enough of my own problems ;)
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11:41<svip>What does GetTownByTile return if there is no town, glx?
11:41<svip>null?
11:41<svip>NULL*
11:43<svip>How do I find out if the current player has a rating by the local town?
11:43<svip>Hm.
11:43<svip>Must be ratings[MAX_PLAYERS].
11:43<svip>Then how do I find the id of the current player?
11:43<@Bjarni>if I wait long enough, you will figure it out :p
11:44<svip>:[
11:44<svip>GetCurrentPlayer()?
11:44<@Bjarni>it's very simple
11:44<svip>Something simple like that?
11:44<@Bjarni>you make it too complicated
11:44<svip>:( Sorry.
11:44<@Bjarni>you asked for the ID, not the player
11:44<svip>I assume the ratings area in the Town is stored by ID's.
11:44<svip>s/area/array
11:45<@Bjarni>but... are you sure you don't want to hardcode it to the local player?
11:45<svip>For now, I will.
11:45<@Bjarni>we have two global vars called _CURRENT_PLAYER and _LOCAL_PLAYER
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11:45<svip>Uh.
11:45<svip>And the differences is?
11:46<@Bjarni>wait, that's not it
11:46<@Bjarni>hmm
11:46<TrueBrain>lowercase
11:46<TrueBrain>_current_player changes all of the time, _local_player is always the player controlling the GUI
11:46<@Bjarni>it's lowercase :p
11:46<TrueBrain>(where _current_player is controlling the current command)
11:47<svip>:o
11:48<svip>So if I do town->rating[_local_player], I'd get some sort of problem or what?
11:48<svip>Well town->ratings*
11:49<TrueBrain>BIG problem
11:49<svip>I'd assume so.
11:49<svip>Well, what do I do then?
11:50<TrueBrain>town->ratings[_current_player]? I dunno, I have no idea where you are talking about :)
11:51<svip>I want the ratings from the current town about the local player.
11:51<TrueBrain>for GUI: use _local_player
11:51<TrueBrain>for DoCommands: use _current_player
11:51<svip>GUI then.
11:52<svip>But ratings[] is indexed by int values, right?
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11:53<TrueBrain>by PlayerIDs, and oh, just use the source-search function of which ever application you use
11:53<TrueBrain>and see how other pieces of code access it
11:53<Wolf01>hello
11:53<TrueBrain>hi Wolf01 :)
11:53<TrueBrain>how is brickland going?
11:54<svip>Brickland?
11:54<Wolf01>it is hard to draw :P
11:54<svip>I thought it was blockland.
11:54<svip>Or is that something different?
11:54<Wolf01>i'm fixing alignment glitches, specially with road lines
11:55<Wolf01>but when i fix one direction, the other breaks :D
11:55<hylje>:>
11:55<TrueBrain>hehe :)
11:55<hylje>find the balance!
11:55<Wolf01>yes, that's why i'm trying to antialias (by hand) the lines as soon i draw them
11:56<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
11:56<Wolf01>hi Belugas :D
12:00<@Belugas>yeah to brickland :)
12:03<svip>Uh, what is the rating in, TrueBrain?
12:03<svip>0 to 100?
12:03<svip>And what if they have no opinion of someone?
12:03<svip>Is it 0 or NULL?
12:03<svip>Or -1?
12:05<SquireJames>hello again
12:05<TrueBrain>and oh, just use the source-search function of which ever application you use
12:05<TrueBrain>[18:53] <TrueBrain> and see how other pieces of code access it
12:05<TrueBrain>hi SquireJames
12:06<TrueBrain>svip: we are not here to pave the road for you so you can just walk over it... we just don't have the time. So please first search the code yourself, there is plenty of documentation telling you such simple questions :)
12:06<svip>:o
12:06<TrueBrain>and if you can't figure it out after searching, try us again :)
12:07<SquireJames>This may sound strange, but, i am trying to use the "bigdepots" grf in OpenTTD and apparently (according to Sacro) its an invalid grf
12:07<@Belugas>and he is not mean when saying that, svip :)
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12:08<svip>:) I did not take it as that either, Belugas.
12:08<SquireJames>it doesent even appear in the add list in the newgrf menu
12:08<+glx>what is its grfid?
12:08<SquireJames>Since I can't seem to work out why a simple depot change is incompatible (when theres another modern depot grf that works fine)
12:09<SquireJames>how do i find out what its grfid is?
12:09<SquireJames>the simplest way I can see to make it work is to copy the modern depot and the invalid big depots
12:10<SquireJames>and then copy the graphics (pcx?) from one to the other, save as a new grf and it should work
12:11<SquireJames>or is that naively simple?
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12:17<SquireJames>people?
12:19<SquireJames>I've noticed, when I speak, everyone else goes silent
12:20<Sacro>http://lidars.narod.ru/index.files/image2049.png <- something seems fishy about that version number
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>that ought to make you wonder :p
12:20<Sacro>Rubidium: did you not notice that :)
12:21<@Belugas>[13:20] <SquireJames> I've noticed, when I speak, everyone else goes silent <--- Sorry, i've forgot i should be glued to this screen 24/7
12:21<Wolf01>lol
12:21<@Belugas>you;re not really patient, are you?
12:21<SquireJames>Your quite hostile, aren't you?
12:21<svip>The sprite ids, what do they refer to?
12:21<svip>And what if I want to insert some new sprites, what I do?
12:21<Sacro>SquireJames: you're
12:22<@Belugas>not hostile. just annoyed that 6 minutes seems to be an eternity for you
12:22<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Pedantry.
12:22<Sacro>Belugas: you have plenty of spare time then
12:22<Sacro>Prof_Frink: yes
12:22<Sacro>Prof_Frink: if i hadn't have done it, then orudge might have :p
12:22<SquireJames>Then don't talk to me, if your hostile at me actually wanting to be answered when I ask a question
12:22<@Belugas>well... not really
12:22<Sacro>SquireJames: you're
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>omg, that picture looks horrible...
12:23<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: i'm curious how OpenTTD 0.4.7 on BeOS supports 32bpp
12:23<SquireJames>and Sacro, why do you keep saying "you're" are me
12:23<SquireJames>*at me
12:23<Sacro>SquireJames: I'm correcting your English
12:23<SquireJames>ah,I see my mistake
12:23<svip>It's not "your", it's "you're", SquireJames.
12:23<svip>:> Good.
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>have you never listened? "there is nothing 32bpp in those grfs"
12:24<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: orly?
12:24<Sacro>and wasn't that the lighthouse stolen from RA2?
12:24<SquireJames>Sorry, i seem to forget my grammar when I have someone being a short tempered git at me
12:24<@Belugas>SquireJames, i just want to remind you that people do some stuff other than IRC. And if you do not have an answer right away, it may just be because a) they are away b) they are searching for you c) they try to understant your question d) anything else
12:25<Prof_Frink>Sacro: I knew I'd seen it before...
12:25<SquireJames>But why take it so personally, as if I were personally berating you?
12:25<Wolf01>e) dining
12:25|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
12:25<Sacro>I've reported it to orudge as spam, but i might re-report it as copyright theft
12:25<SquireJames>I was simply commenting, with implied humour (not anger) that the conversation dries up when I speak
12:25<@Belugas>i did not took it personnaly, i was making an ironic situation to show you that thinks are not always what you think they are
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>f) ignoring you
12:26<@Belugas>i.e. a roomy irc chat might be quite an empty one, eventually
12:27<SquireJames>So, to return to the topic in question, does that seem the best way to get an old invalid grf to work?
12:27<@Belugas>well... to be honest, i practice myself been as sacarstic as Dalestan can be, but i think i still have to practice!
12:27<+glx>you first need to check its grfid
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: it is simply a weird conglomerate of totally unfitting sprites...
12:28<@Belugas>but to answer your question, you should decode it first
12:28<@Belugas>grfcodec
12:28<@Belugas>that, at least, will give us the grfid glx i requesting
12:28<SquireJames>I've done a little grf coding before , so i'll give that a go
12:28<@Belugas>maybe you could find why it does not load too
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12:29<+glx>I think the invalid grf is one made with grdtogrf without the right args so its grfid is FFFFFFFF
12:29<@Belugas>could be that too, yes :)
12:30<SquireJames>If it helps, it used to work back in TTDPatch
12:30<svip>I assume the PALETTE sprites store colours?
12:31<SquireJames>Does an incompatibility between TTDPatch and OpenTTD indicate any particular problem?
12:31<+glx>SquireJames: TTDP takes grfid FFFFFFFF as system sprite
12:31<SquireJames>Ah, so its a good bet its a grfid error then
12:33<svip>What's the different between drawing on ground and drawing on top of foundation?
12:34<+glx>different slope
12:34<+glx>you usually draw on ground when it's flat
12:35<SquireJames>brb
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12:36<SquireJames5>back
12:37<svip>:/ I wonder if this compiles.
12:39<SquireJames5>right, i've extracted the bigdepots.grf
12:40<SquireJames5>So, how do i find the grfid now?
12:40<+glx>in action 8
12:41<svip>:o glx, why didn't it compile the new file I've added in the src dir?
12:41<SquireJames5>8 sprites/bigdepots.pcx 370 8 09 45 64 -9 -29
12:42<SquireJames5>that it?
12:42<+glx>no that is the 8th sprite
12:42<+glx>xxx * xxx 08 ...
12:42<+glx>that's the line you want
12:42<SquireJames5> 1 * 27 08 02 "ÿÿÿÿ" 00 "Created by GRDTOGRF" 00
12:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10958 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Remove deleted files from source.list, and rebuild the VCproj files.
12:42<+glx>svip: what is your compiler?
12:42<svip>gcc
12:43<+glx>add the file(s) in source.list
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12:43<SquireJames5>is that the right file?
12:44<+glx>yes looks like FFFFFFFF
12:44<SquireJames5>rightho, so what i'll try first is to extract the modern rail depots
12:44<SquireJames5>and then copy the nfo file entry of action 8
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>no, just change those 4 letters, and reencode
12:44<+glx>no you just need to modify the line and recompile
12:45<@Belugas>indeed, it is FFFFFFFF
12:45<svip>:[
12:45<svip>Why am I getting trivial errors?
12:45<+glx>like?
12:45<svip>Like this: /home/svip/workspace/OpenTTD/home/svip/openttd-dev/trunk/src/macros.h:121: error: `uint' does not name a type
12:46<Sacro>haha
12:46<@Belugas>can you show a diff?
12:46<svip>I apologies for the long directory path.
12:46<Sacro>thast sounds quite broekn
12:46<svip>So does your English.
12:46<+glx>missing include I think
12:46<Sacro>svip: my English is fine, my typing is slightly lacking
12:46<svip>:P
12:46<+glx>does it happen when compiling your new file?
12:46<svip>Yes.
12:46<SquireJames5>change the 4 letters to anything in particular?
12:46<Tlustoch>what is SLOPE_STEEP?
12:46<SquireJames5>or just a number of my own choice?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>SquireJames5: it will take the ascii codes of the letters as grfid
12:47<+glx>svip: add #include "stdafx.h" in your file before other includes
12:47<@Belugas>SquireJames5, the usual way would be yuor initial plus a two digit verison number
12:47<+glx>like "SJ" 01 01
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>alternatively, replace the string with hex values (AB CD EF 01)
12:48<SquireJames5>okeedokes
12:48<@Belugas>Tlustoch : it is an indicator of the way the tile is inclined
12:48<@Belugas>and i think it is 0x15
12:49<svip>Meh, glx, didn't work.
12:50<@Belugas>wrong, it is 0x10
12:50<@Belugas>look in slope.h
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>Tlustoch: if you look in docs/tileh.png, the tiles numbered 23,27,29 and 30 are steep slopes
12:51<Nickman>Anyone here knows how to return a pointer in Squirrel? :)
12:51<+glx>svip: it should
12:51<SquireJames5>thank you gentlemen, it worked :)
12:51<svip>Well... I am still looking at the same set of errors, glx.
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>Tlustoch: basically, tileh is 5 bits, 4 bits indicating which corners are raised, and the 5th indicating that one corner is raised 2 levels (the steep slope bit)
12:55<+glx>svip: post a diff somewhere
12:55<+glx>don't forget to svn add your files before running svn diff
12:55<Tlustoch>How can be one corner raised 2 levels? You can have only one level difference on one square.
12:56<svip>svn add?
12:56<svip>Ugh.
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>Tlustoch: look at the picture
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12:58<svip>How do I do that, glx?
12:58<+glx>svn add newfile
12:59<svip>Hot crackers. :[
12:59<svip>svn: Your .svn/tmp directory may be missing or corrupt; run 'svn cleanup' and try again
12:59<svip>svn: Can't open file 'media/.svn/tmp/entries': No such file or directory
12:59<svip>I did try the cleanup.
12:59<+glx>how did you get the source?
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12:59<svip>Through svn checkout
13:00<+glx>svn add should work then
13:01<svip>But I get that message each time I do svn add.
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>svip: go into the right directory?
13:01<svip>The trunk directory?
13:01<svip>Or the src dir?
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>trunk should suffice
13:01<svip>Well... I still get the error.
13:03<svip>Okay, glx.
13:03<svip>Now I have a .diff file.
13:04<+glx>put it somewhere so we can check it and see what's wrong
13:04<svip>www.sviip.dk/random/zoning2.diff
13:04<Tlustoch>Is there some easy way to check if I can build road from one square to another? Especially if the slopes are ok?
13:04[~]glx is goes to eat, he will look later
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>Tlustoch: make a tileloop and query with the build road command?
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>or in the NoAI branch there should be AI functions for that
13:06<svip>I'll bbl as well.
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>svip: there is inconsistency in spelling of "zoning" vs. "zoneing"
13:07|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
13:07<Tlustoch>What is tileloop?
13:08<Greyscale>Feature request: Ability to keep vehicle details pane open whilst closing the vehicles viewport
13:08<Greyscale>either that or roll the two into one
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>Tlustoch: "FOR_EACH_TILE(t)"?
13:08<Wolf01>Greyscale, i wanted a window style like locomotion, but seem that devs hate it ;)
13:09<Greyscale>never played locomotion
13:09<Greyscale>also: little blobs above traffic lights so I can actually *see* what it is
13:09<Greyscale>and being able to set them manually would be nice
13:09<Greyscale>and the drag-to-place thing for the lights is nice, but I can't make them one-way without manually clicking
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>svip: tried moving the "#include <zoning.h>" (order of includes)?
13:10<Tlustoch>But with build road command, the road is actually built. I only want to check if the road can be build.
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>Tlustoch: you have to provide the appropriate flags
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13:13<Wolf01>Greyscale: http://www.chrissawyer.com/images/drivermode1.gif
13:14<Greyscale>yeah, like tabs
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13:14<Greyscale>the buttons down the side acting like tabs instead of cluttering the UI with windows
13:14<Tlustoch>Probably not implemented in NoAI :(
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13:16<Wolf01>the only problem is that all the gui should be rewritten to allow this, and all the windows must be bigger because of the writings in them
13:19<@Belugas>Tlustoch, you could use DC_QUERY_COST instead of the DC_EXEC one used for build road
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13:45<@Belugas>hey skidd13
13:46<@Belugas>questin for your : TTRS3 + Pikkas industries
13:46<@Belugas>was this basic or ukrsi?
13:47<skidd13>TTRS3??? I didn't use TTRS3
13:47<skidd13>IIRC
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13:48<@Belugas>you did :)
13:48<@Belugas>i haver to logs for it
13:48<skidd13>Where?
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13:59<svip><EddizuHause> svip: there is inconsistency in spelling of "zoning" vs. "zoneing" << Hm?
13:59<svip>Never heard of the word "zoneing".
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's in your diff :p
13:59<svip>Well, I cannot find that spelling through a search through
14:00<svip>Oh.
14:00<svip>In the language files.
14:00<svip>Shouldn't be that difficult to change.
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14:03<Wolf01>I noticed this when i zoomed out, the trains were crossing the full screen faster than the planes. Should this happen ??
14:03<Wolf01>i'm forced to answer: "yes, because of parallax effect"
14:03<Wolf01>XD
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14:14<Dephenom>Wolf01, i think there was a patch that corrected this, i may be wrong tho, what version are you running?
14:14<Wolf01>latest nightly
14:14<Dephenom>hmm
14:14<Dephenom>strange
14:14<Dephenom>not sure then
14:17<svip>glx?
14:17<svip>How much are you filling yourself up with?
14:17<+glx>a lot :)
14:17<svip>Did you check my code?
14:18<+glx>yes I fail to see what's wrong in it
14:18<+glx>maybe post the compile log
14:20<svip>In what header is Point defined?
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>svip: btw. codestyle, in danish.txt you use tabs for aligning
14:21<Noldo>\o/ almost done
14:21<svip>Oh right, I forgot about removing that.
14:21<+glx>svip: use the search function of your text editor :)
14:21<svip>:( It sucks apparently.
14:21<svip>To search in C code that is.
14:21<+glx>gfx.h
14:22<svip>grep found it.
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>that
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>'s what you have grep for
14:22<Noldo>Belugas: it's about 3 hours work
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14:23<beetlejuice>hello
14:24<beetlejuice>anyone here?
14:25<beetlejuice>?
14:25<beetlejuice>hi
14:25<beetlejuice>hi
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14:25<@peter1138>haha
14:25<svip>:]
14:28<Sacro>peter1138: perhaps if we say his name 3 times he might come back
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14:29<svip>Argh.
14:29<svip>Now openttd crashes.
14:29<svip>openttd: /home/svip/workspace/OpenTTD/home/svip/openttd-dev/trunk/src/town_map.h:19: TownID GetTownIndex(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_HOUSE) || IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)' failed.
14:29<svip>Aborted
14:29<@peter1138>hmm, battery at 18%... maybe i should plug it in
14:29<+glx>you didn't check tile type before calling GetTownIndex()
14:30<svip>Oh.
14:31<svip>How do I check that then?
14:31<svip>I know that the Tile struct stores those bytes, but all I have is TileInfo.
14:31<svip>:/ Wait, TileInfo->tile is the Tile, yes?
14:31<+glx>ti->tile yes
14:32<@peter1138>TileIndex
14:32<@peter1138>not Tile
14:32<svip>Right.
14:32<+glx>on top your function just add if (!IsTileType(t, MP_HOUSE) && !IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)) return;
14:33<svip>Where t is ti->tile?
14:33<+glx>yes
14:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10959 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (8 files): [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Rename FSMState to FSMCommand. nof_elements changed to num_positions. nof_depots changed to num_depots.
14:34<svip>Beautiful, glx.
14:34<svip>Now it only highlights roads.
14:34<svip>And houses.
14:35<+glx>that's the only thing you can get with GetTownIndex
14:35<svip>Therefore I will do it differently.
14:36<svip>Okay, glx.
14:37<svip>Now I just need to make it not be *on* when I start the game.
14:37<svip>:( And, they lack different colours though.
14:38<svip>Oh right.
14:38<svip>That depends on what I saved it as. :D
14:38<svip>How do I colour the select thingie?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>use a different coloured sprite?
14:39<svip>I thought it was combination of "image" and "pal".
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, maybe look at how company colours are done
14:40<svip>:o
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>either that, or how transparency is done
14:40<svip>Where is that done?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know?
14:41<Wolf01>you can ask me for this
14:41<svip>Then I ask you for that.
14:41<svip>Pretend I asked, Wolf01.
14:41<Wolf01>for the transparency
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>the answer is 42.
14:41<svip>:O
14:42<Wolf01>there is an AddSortableSpriteToDraw function somewhere
14:42<Wolf01>there you can set the palette
14:42<svip>I have used exactly that function.
14:42<svip>Wolf01: "AddSortableSpriteToDraw(SPR_SELECT_TILE + _tileh_to_sprite[ti->tileh], opinion_colour, ti->x, ti->y, 0x10, 0x10, 1, ti->z + 7);"
14:43<svip>opinion_colour is a PALETTE_ colour.
14:43<Wolf01>ok
14:43<@peter1138>might need a bit set
14:44<Wolf01>for transparency yes
14:44<@peter1138>hmm, yeah, not for normal colour maps
14:49<svip>Stupid red.
14:49<svip>Why does it flash?
14:49<Greyscale>is there any way to turn off air crashes?
14:51<alex_>no planes
14:51<Wolf01>because the palette cycling flashes the red
14:51<svip>Okay.
14:51<@Belugas>svip, there are colours used for some special effects
14:51<Wolf01>so you must use a different red
14:51<svip>But the PALETTE_TO_RED doesn't work.
14:52<@Belugas>Wolf01, you beat me :)
14:52<Wolf01>because as a long i know, there isn't a PALETTE_TO_RED
14:53<svip>:/ I am looking right at it.
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>svip: docs/ottd-colour-palette.gif shows all available colours
14:53<svip> PALETTE_TO_RED = 0x30B,
14:53<Wolf01>uhm
14:55<svip>I am disappointed in that palette, Eddi|zuHause.
14:55<svip>I thought I was added red, but instead I got the 1-9 colours of purple.
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>why should it matter to me what you thought?
14:57<svip>Cause now everything is pink. ;-;
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>i was just pointing in a vague direction...
14:59<SquireJames5>hmmm, puzzling, anyone here know why a steel mill wouldn't give steel to my railway station thats in the catchment area?
14:59<SquireJames5>i'm delivering huge amounts of iron ore to it, but my steel train never loads a single piece
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15:00<svip>Did you check if it actually produces any steel?
15:00<SquireJames5>yup
15:00<SquireJames5>586 tons this month
15:00<svip>Did you check that your steel train can actually pick up steel?
15:00<svip>And it doesn't have waggons of a different kind?
15:01<SquireJames5>nope, i'm using the UKRS and I have a Webb 0-8-0 Freight Engine with 16 Bolster Waggons, that say "Capacity 18 tonnes of Steel"
15:02<svip>Hm, take a screenshot?
15:02<SquireJames5>its at the platform next to the one that the Iron Ore Train pulls in, and is actually 1 tile closer to the Mill than the Iron ore train
15:02<svip>Of course, with some windows open that can help resolve some clues.
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>are there already two other stations that pick up steel?
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15:03<SquireJames5>nope just 1 station for the town
15:03<SquireJames5>Okay, screenshot taken
15:04<CIA-2>OpenTTD: richk * r10960 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp fsmport.h newgrf_engine.cpp water_cmd.cpp): [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Remove delta_z from the FSMport class. Will need to replace code at places marked with TODO.
15:05<SquireJames5>Its trying to send it to you svip
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>rather upload it to an image hoster or something...
15:06<SquireJames5>okay
15:12<SquireJames5>http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4756/southernrailway9thdec19hb7.png
15:14<SquireJames5>Any clues? I'm out of ideas myself
15:14<@Belugas>looks like your steel mill is way too far from the station
15:15<svip>But the station accepts Iron Ore.
15:15<@Belugas>station pushes the ore to the industry
15:15<@Belugas>industry does not push
15:16<@Belugas>so you have to build your station closer to the mill
15:17<SquireJames5>As svip says, the station accepts the ore
15:17<SquireJames5>so why would it not deposit its steel there
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15:18<SquireJames5>I've had arrangements like this before and it has worked
15:21<@Belugas>[16:16] <@Belugas> station pushes the ore to the industry
15:21<@Belugas>does it push?
15:21<@Belugas>mmmh
15:21<@Belugas>either way, you should alwaus build yur station so itscatchment area includes the industry
15:21<@Belugas>which is really not the case right now
15:21<@Belugas>that is why, on the station-building-gui, there is a button saying Show Catchment (or somwething similar)
15:22<SquireJames5>I did that
15:22<SquireJames5>otherwise, why would i try and ship ore to a station that didnt accept it
15:23<SquireJames5>the steel mill is in the catchment
15:23<@Belugas>then, i cannot tell
15:23<@Belugas>but jusding from the screenshot, it seems really far from the station
15:23<SquireJames5>well, i've bulldozed some houses
15:24<SquireJames5>and leapfroged a lorry depot to the steel mill
15:24<SquireJames5>and now the train loads steel, so it seems for whatever reason, the mill accepted my iron
15:24<SquireJames5>but it didn't think my station was in its catchement, or something of the sort
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15:26<Noldo>I need some sleep now
15:33<svip>ottd-colour-palette.gif image.
15:33<svip>What does the numbers refer to?
15:33<svip>And how do I get them as a SpriteID?
15:34|-|thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B7A13B.pool.t-online.hu] has quit []
15:39<@Belugas>good night
15:40<Phazorx>that's kina early for bedtime by MTR clock
15:41<svip>:<
15:42<@Belugas>nope, i'm leaving the office to go home, and i doubt i will be able to work tonigh. but most europeans are abut to/if not already done/ sleep :)
15:42<@Belugas>andi'm runnign to catch my bus
15:42<@Belugas>gone
15:45<Wolf01>i noticed a bad thing... toyland has support for only 2 stages of the terrain: clear and grassy, i drawn 4 stages like the temperate :/
15:49<svip>:<
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>then probably some stages are mapped to the same sprite?
15:51<Wolf01>but the sprites are all present in the trgtr.grf
15:51<Wolf01>from 0 to 75
15:52<Wolf01>all the four stages
15:52<Wolf01>but the 2,3,4 are identic
15:52<svip>How do I check if a tile is within a town's area?
15:52<Wolf01>i thought was only graphically... but i was wrong
15:52<svip>I just figured it wasn't using GetTileOwner(). :[
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>so the stages are there, but not accessed? or they are there, get accessed, but just look the same?
15:54<Wolf01>they are there but not accessed
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>svip: look in the code of the query window
15:55<svip>Query window?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>the question mark icon on the right...
15:56<svip>Hm.
15:56<svip>I had been looking for that code.
15:56<svip>But couldn't find it.
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>most likely in misc_gui.cpp
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>it was probably said before: if you search for such code, the easiest way is to look for the text in your_lang.txt, and then look where that stringid is used
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16:05<Wolf01>'night
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16:14<svip>:D Eddi|zuHause.
16:15<svip>What you say about that: http://www.isarapix.com/pix95/1187730934.png
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16:18<Eddi|zuHause>for great justice!!
16:18|-|Mucht [~Mucht@87.160.240.142] has joined #openttd
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>now recolour that map in 4 colours, with adjacent areas having different colours
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16:20<svip>Oooh, that was not my original intend.
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause>well, it gets easier with more colours, 4 is the minimum for planar graphs
16:21<svip>But the colours was suppose to represent something.
16:21<svip>As you can see in the topic.
16:21<svip>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33701
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16:23<Eddi|zuHause>you honestly want to use 2 colours on the same tile?
16:25<svip>Read the final line on the first post.
16:26<svip>But I am unsure what Blue or Yellow should each be used for.
16:26<svip>Blue for "bad" and Yellow for "good"?
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>rather use (light) blue for "good" and orange for "bad"
16:28<svip>Good idea.
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16:29<Dephenom>hi guys, just trying to compile the "new destinations" patch into my copy of ottd yet i keep getting "openttd: /home/paul/Games/openttd/src/openttd.cpp:110: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed." and the game aborts. any reason for this or should i not bother with this patch
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16:30<svip>I have still not figured out how these colours work, Eddi|zuHause.
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16:30<svip>I thought I used the ids in that palette.
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>Dephenom: start with "openttd -d <number>" to get an idea what goes wrong
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>start with 1 and go higher, if that does not give you a clue
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Dephenom: also, for custom patches, ask the patch author... you cannot expect to get support here
16:32<Rubidium>Dephenom: the error before that "assertion" is the real error
16:32<Dephenom>Eddi|zuHause, ok will do, thanks for your help anyway
16:33<Rubidium>the assertion is just there to "kill" the application is such a manner that the debugger is triggered
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16:34<svip>Noone in here can tell me how to use the ottd-colour-palette.gif image?
16:34<svip>Well, how I read it, and use the numbers I read off it.
16:35<svip>All I get now is pink.
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>you need a recolour map... each pixel in the sprite has a 8 bit number indicating the colour on the .gif, what you need is a description like "replace all pixels with colour 8 to colour 25"
16:37<svip>Wait wait.
16:37<svip>I thought I gave it a sprite with was the image.
16:37<svip>And a sprite which was the colour.
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16:37<svip>The image and the pal.
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>a sprite is a big array of pixels
16:38<svip>Indeed.
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>and a recolour map is a big array of colours
16:38<svip>I'd assume so.
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16:38<Eddi|zuHause>and i have no idea how that is implemented any further...
16:38<@Bjarni>ohh palette fun
16:39<@Bjarni>never looked into it
16:39<@Bjarni>I went as far as to try porting grfcodec... that didn't turn out well :8
16:41<svip>And there is no guide on how working with these colours work?
16:41<svip>There is an image and that's all?
16:41<Rubidium>only a few colors are affected by the different "color" palettes
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16:42<Eddi|zuHause>i am not going to find that out, if that is what you expect...
16:42<svip>I am not.
16:42<svip>I am just hoping someone knows.
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>either it's in the wiki, or it's commented, or you find out what the code actually does, or you are screwed
16:43<Rubidium>svip: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=PalettesAndCoordinates
16:43<@Bjarni>Darkvater once made a diff to display all colours ingame, so you could see them and pick the colour you like
16:43<@Bjarni>it was never committed though and I'm not sure how to get it today
16:44|-|Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-249-103.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: docs/ottd-colour-palette.gif
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16:48<RichK67>hi all
16:48<RichK67>any nfo/graphics guys out there?
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16:53<svip>Rubidium, my real question is, how do I insert a "select" tile and recolour it?
16:54<svip>There is one that makes it blueish, and one that makes it flash red.
16:54<RichK67>check in viewport.cpp....
16:54<svip>That I have.
16:54<RichK67>it draws the higlight with a sprite colour remap
16:54<svip>And I've already done what I thought should be done.
16:55<svip>But apparently that didn't work.
16:55<svip>I'd assume as much.
16:55<svip>And I also assume that all the sprites palettes it had was used to recolour things.
16:55<svip>But apparently not "select tiles".
16:57<RichK67>the select tiles use id 15, as the white location... and this gets remapped.... in other colour maps, this value stays white
16:57<svip>Hmmm...
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17:03<RichK67>get grfcodec & nforenum... decode trg1r.grf, and then use nforenum to beautify it.... then look at sprites 771-773 (the flashing red, red, and blue colour remaps) ... i sorted out a green remap for my newgrf_ports project that way
17:04<DaleStan>Bjarni: I believe patchman made grfcodec (at least mostly) BE-compatible in 1508.
17:05<@Bjarni>that's not the issue, remember?
17:05<@Bjarni>we looked at the issues with LE OSX a while ago
17:05<@Bjarni>and it didn't produce usable grf files
17:06<svip>I am still a bit confused, RichK67.
17:06<@Bjarni>I can't remember what the issue was though
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17:13<RichK67>svip: lol ... yeah, me too... the sprite recolour map is a 257 byte sprite, starting with a 00, and then having 256 bytes of colour remaps
17:14<RichK67>ie if you want to make colour 88 transparent, then set byte 89 of the remap to 00
17:14<RichK67>and then when you use DrawSprite, use the colour map as the palette
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17:38<svip>RichK67, can you make up a quick code example?
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17:39<RichK67>no, cos it wouldnt be quick
17:39<svip>:(
17:39<svip>:[ I'm confused on how to do it.
17:40<svip>Where is this "colour remap" you speak of?
17:40<svip>And how do I get it a colour number?
17:40<RichK67>but if you want to see one in action, take a look at how i used it in the NewGRF_ports branch, commit 10889
17:41<svip>Hm.
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17:42<RichK67>it is always useful to refer to the newgrf wiki... (god, did i really say that) ... http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=PalettesAndCoordinates and for the sprites ... http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Stations#Sprite_layout_09_
17:42<svip>This screenshot might explain my problems: http://tt-forums.net/download.php?id=77050
17:43<RichK67>well, you have *a* recolour working, just maybe not the one you want
17:43<svip>Yeah.
17:43<svip>But it always gives me pink.
17:43<RichK67>what sprite pallette are you giving it?
17:44<svip>Right now I am using the PALETTE_TO_[colour]
17:44<svip>Defined in spirtes.h
17:44<svip>sprites.h*
17:45<RichK67>as i said before, the highlight is painted in colour 15... check what colour 15 maps to in most of the palettes... you'll find its pink
17:45<svip>Well...
17:45<svip>Then how do I change that?
17:45|-|Dark_Link^ changed nick to Dark_Link^sleep
17:45<DaleStan>PALETTE_TO_*, unless I miss my guess, recolors only the company-color blues.
17:46<svip>Ooh.
17:46<svip>Well, there are some for TILES SELECT, but there are very few of those.
17:46<svip>Only 3 if I am correct.
17:46<RichK67>try using PALETTE_SEL_TILE_BLUE
17:46<RichK67>DaleStan: correctamundo
17:47<RichK67>yup... and they are sprites 771-773 .... as i said, use grfcodec and nforenum to look at those sprites in the .nfo of trg1r.grf
17:47<RichK67>you will see, almost *all* locations are 0
17:47<RichK67>except the few useful ones
17:48<svip>That worked, RichK67.
17:48<svip>Using the SEL_TILE_BLUE that is.
17:48<svip>:/ grfcodec won't run though.
17:49<svip>grfcodec: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.5' not found (required by grfcodec) \\ grfcodec: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.1' not found (required by grfcodec) \\ grfcodec: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.4' not found (required by grfcodec)
17:49<+glx>compiled yourself?
17:49<svip>Nope.
17:49<RichK67>so then, you could edit one of the supporting .grf files, and add your recolour map to the list in sprites.h (as i said, look at commit 10889)
17:50<RichK67>i created a green recolour map, for land tiles during placement of seaplane airports
17:53<DaleStan>svip: Either update your C and C++ libraries, or try compiling yourself: svn co svn://svn.ttdpatch.net/misc/grfcodec && cd grfcodec && make grfcodec
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17:53<svip>I compiled it myself, and it works now.
17:53<DaleStan>What distro you running?
17:53<svip>Slackware.
17:54<DaleStan>Ah. I compiled on Ubuntu, which is ... Debian-based, I think?
17:54<svip>It is.
17:54<svip>The nfo of trg1r.grf, RichK67?
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17:58<meggie>hello,
17:58<meggie>i'm new to ttd
17:58<svip>:o
17:58<meggie>the game is cool
17:58<meggie>however i have no clue what to do with produced goods
17:59<svip>:[ RichK67, I cannot decode the grf file.
17:59<svip>I try, and it says everything worked, but I cannot find the decoded files.
17:59<+glx>meggie: deliver them to towns
17:59<@Bjarni>meggie: you should transport it ;)
17:59<meggie>who accepts them?
17:59<@Bjarni>towns
17:59<meggie>i know that lol
17:59<@Bjarni>if they are big enough
17:59<DaleStan>svip: They should appear in the sprites directory.
17:59<meggie>but all the towns accept only passangers, mail and food
17:59<RichK67>if you've done it right, the files will be in a subdirectory called sprites
17:59<meggie>but not goods
18:00<svip>Where?
18:00<svip>In the working directory.
18:00<RichK67>DaleStan: there sure is an echo in here ;)
18:00<svip>Or the directory file is in?
18:00<RichK67>below file's directory
18:00<svip>There we go.
18:00<RichK67>eg. .grf in data .... .nfo and .pcx in data/sprites
18:01<svip>:[ I thought it would put them in the directory I was working in.
18:01<meggie>Bjarni: so what u are saying is that my towns are too small and that is why they don't accept any goods?
18:01<+glx>bla.grf -> sprites/bla.nfo and sprites/bla.pcx
18:01<@Bjarni>meggie: if you look at the buildings with the questionmark tool, then you will notice that some buildings requests 1/8 or 3/8 goods. You need to have a combined total of at least 8/8 in a station's catchment area for it to accept goods
18:01<svip>Not very UNIX like.
18:01<svip>I disapprove of that part.
18:02<svip>The fact that the [<Directory>] is relative to where the grf file is, and not what pwd would return.
18:02<RichK67>bah... *nix snobbery ...
18:02<DaleStan>But quite useful on OSen where the pwd will report C:/WINDOWS far more often than is appropriate.
18:02<meggie>let me check and make sure i understand what u are saying
18:02<meggie>i used to play ttd a long time ago
18:02<RichK67>so you would prefer to disassociate the decode from the file it relates to?
18:03<meggie>and openttd has more options which i'm not familiar with
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18:03<svip>Personally, yes.
18:03<svip>Or at least point it out in the help file.
18:03<RichK67>*shudder*
18:04<svip>How do I read a .nfo file, RichK67?
18:04<svip>Let's not get into that UNIX stuff.
18:04<+glx>with a text editor
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18:05<svip>:| And this is where I add some sprites?
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18:08<svip>So what am I looking for in this nfo file, RichK67?
18:08<RichK67>i wouldnt add them to that file, better to go in your own .grf file, that you add into the sprite list within gfxinit.cpp
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18:08<svip>Okay.
18:08<RichK67>sorry... create your own .nfo, and then encode with grfcodec -d
18:08<svip>-e*
18:08<svip>-d << decode.
18:08<svip>I got that one right.
18:08<RichK67>yeah... its late
18:09<svip>The id's on the left on the nfo.
18:09<svip>Are they important?
18:09<svip>I mean, I can start from 0 again in my nfo file, right?
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18:09<RichK67>the sprite numbers, no... grfcodec will sort them out
18:10<RichK67>but you will need an action 1 to define the set, and say "one sprite coming up"... then have your remap
18:10<RichK67>in fact, scrub that
18:10<RichK67>no need for the action1
18:11<svip>I basically just need copy the select tiles in the original file, and turn them into something I can use? :D
18:11<RichK67>if you are loading it directly in using gfxinit.cpp ... check out the example of airports.grf
18:12<+glx>RichK67: only in NewGRF_ports for now I think
18:12<RichK67>yeah, take a look at the tiles you want to remap, and see what colours they use in the graphic... this tells you which you want to remap
18:12<RichK67>glx: i was meaning check out how airports.grf is loaded in via gfxinit.cpp ...
18:13<Sacro>Bjarni: she has mucho big breasts
18:13<+glx>I though you added the green selection in airports.grf
18:15<RichK67>not the fact that in newgrf_ports it has a remap too... although if you take a look at http://git.openttd.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=svn/NewGRF_ports.git;a=commitdiff;h=19501bfae66b2b2718d75c958ce164c82071662a
18:16<RichK67>svip: that link shows you how i added the green tile recolour to the branch im working on
18:16<RichK67>you just need to sort out where you put your sprite, and how to link it in
18:18<RichK67>although, you only really need be concerned with the change to viewport.cpp and sprites.h ... if you want to tack your sprite into an existing one, then thats the way to go... if you want to add your own separate graphics file, you will need to look at how airports.grf is loaded via gfxinit.cpp, and borrow that
18:19<svip>Hm.
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18:19<svip>Okay.
18:19<svip>I am going with the "create my own" grf.
18:19<svip>I am just wondering how to do the colouring.
18:20<RichK67>neater
18:20<svip>Cause I am just creating the white "back ones".
18:20<svip>Can I just create a full rectangle of a specific colour, and then through it over it, or woot?
18:23<RichK67>err, you could take the highlight graphics from trg1r.grf, and fill them in with the colour you want, but then you would need to map the new graphics into the overlay code... not impossible, but a lot of effort
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18:24<RichK67>personally i would try to work with using the existing highlight tiles, but change their colour as required
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18:25<+glx>I think he needs to make an "inner" highlight tile sprite
18:25<@Bjarni>Sacro: AFAIK there aren't any big breasts in here, but feel free to prove me wrong :)
18:26[~]mikegrb raises his shirt
18:27<@Bjarni>...
18:27<@Bjarni>"his"
18:27<DaleStan>"his". Not exactly an encouraging pronoun there.
18:27<mikegrb><3
18:27<mikegrb>Bjarni: you didn't specify!
18:27<@Bjarni>Sacro said "she"
18:27<@Bjarni>so I replied based on "she"
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18:28<@Bjarni>but ok, I learned one thing
18:28[~]Bjarni notes that mikegrb is fat
18:30<mikegrb>nah, just ripped ;)
18:30[~]mikegrb flexes his pecks
18:31<@Bjarni>you know, I had a feeling that somebody would reply like you did
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18:31<svip>When did Sacro say such?
18:31<svip>And you hoped it was a female?
18:31<@Bjarni>but I thought it would be pointing at somebody else saying "he has big boobs"
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18:31<@Bjarni>[01:13:37] <Sacro> Bjarni: she has mucho big breasts
18:32<@Bjarni>"she" usually indicates a female
18:32<svip>But who is he referring to?
18:32<svip>And I notice the "leet" time stamp in that timestamp.
18:32<@Bjarni>that's another very good question
18:32<svip>13:37
18:32<+glx>do the conversion ;)
18:32<svip>:o
18:33<svip>Working on this inner highlight tiles, glx.
18:33<+glx>anyway don't worry about what Sacro's saying ;)
18:33<svip>I probably need to keep them separate from the others, so I can colour them differently, yeah?
18:33<@Bjarni>knowing Sacro, he could be imagine some big titted girl who he have never seen in real life
18:34[~]Sacro whistles
18:34<Sacro>and admires the link Bjarni sent him
18:34<svip>What link?! O_O
18:34<@Bjarni>...
18:34[~]Bjarni wonders what Sacro is up to
18:34<RichK67>gnight
18:34<+glx>svip: yes and you can place them with AddSortableSpriteToDraw()
18:35<svip>:o Night.
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18:35<svip>Good good.
18:36<+glx>just change one of the sprite base in your DrawZoningSprites() and it should work
18:36<+glx>provided you have made all inner sprites ;)
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18:41<svip>:O
18:41<svip>But I still need to figure out the colours.
18:43<+glx>start without recoloring
18:43<+glx>you'll add it later
18:44<+glx>1) draw the inner
18:44<+glx>2) draw it in the right color
18:44<+glx>allways progress with small steps
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18:51<svip>glx?
18:51<svip>http://www.isarapix.com/pix88/1187740306.png
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18:53<+glx>based on original?
18:53<Brianetta>400 day time piece that can spontaneously and catastrophically fail, endangering bystanders:
18:53<Brianetta>http://erkelzaar.tsudao.com/models/ultra/german-tb.htm
18:53<svip>Indeed, glx.
18:53<+glx>now make a grf using these sprites
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19:00<@Bjarni>Tobin_: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1109 <-- this bug is still open :/
19:01<@Bjarni>anyway I need to get some sleep
19:01<@Bjarni>goodnight
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19:07<svip>glx: Error: Insufficient meta-data.
19:07<svip> While reading sprite:
19:07<svip>':[
19:10<DaleStan>svip: pastebin the NFO. And there should be a sprite number there.
19:10<svip>DaleStan: http://pastebin.ca/666288
19:15<DaleStan>svip: Your paste is missing the first two lines. If that's not just an artifact, grfcodec's trying to parse the NFO as version 1, which had a different real-sprite format.
19:16<svip>Cannot read truecolour PCX files!
19:16<svip>:[
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19:17<svip>:D
19:19<DaleStan>Don't write truecolor PCX files. Grab the palette from a grfcodec-generated PCX file (usually, generated with -p 2), and apply it to your PCX file.
19:19<svip>I fixed it.
19:28<svip>Thanks for the help, DaleStan.
19:28<svip>But I will go to bed now.
19:34<@Belugas>those overrides are driving me nuts
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19:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r10961 /trunk/src/ (industry.h table/build_industry.h):
19:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Flag default substitutes of industry/tiles with a value that cannot be legal.
19:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: This avoids the forest of coal mine error in the futur
19:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r10962 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: protect yourself against an illicit substitution
20:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belugas * r10963 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp):
20:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Revert(10700): Although the idea was good, it was more prone of errors than usefull.
20:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: So now, it will be better to jump to the overriden tile when it is been marked as an override
20:16<@Belugas>i never though i would revert some stuff myself :S
20:17<@Belugas>but hey... that's the price to pay when working directly in trunk !
20:18<Greyscale>Where do I get the server for 0.5.2?
20:20<Greyscale>anyone awake?
20:21<@Belugas>have you checked on www.openttd.org?
20:22<Greyscale>I can't find where to get the server
20:22|-|Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-128-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:22<Greyscale>Found the nightly server though
20:28<@Belugas>mmh
20:28<@Belugas>i don't now much about servers, to be honest
20:28<@Belugas>which OS?
20:29<@Belugas>ho wait... are you talking about the dedicated server?
20:29<Greyscale>linux
20:29<Greyscale>yeah
20:30<@Belugas>you'll have to wait for Rubidium, glx (maybe) and TrueBrain to come around.
20:30<@Belugas>i'm a winXP guy
20:30<Greyscale>fark
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20:30<@Belugas>?
20:31<Greyscale>Aren't all the server versions kept in the same place?
20:31<@Belugas>i donot know
20:31<+glx>a non server version can be started as dedicated
20:31<+glx>but you may need a lot of unneed libs
20:32<+glx>if you want a dedicated only version you must compile it yourself
20:32<Greyscale>it doesn't have X, for one
20:32<Greyscale>oh, pork. Guide?
20:32<+glx>get the source package
20:32<+glx>you need at least zlib devel
20:35<+glx>./configure --dedicated
20:35<+glx>make
20:35<+glx>you then have a dedicated build
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20:37<@Belugas>thanks for clarification, glx :)
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20:48<nckomodo>I've been trying to make a lua script that gets the basic server info to no avail because I have no idea what the hell I'm doing with UDP sockets and I'm trying to work off of a PHP script, and I dont know PHP. I spat "0" at the server and it spat "j" back at me
20:49<nckomodo>"J" rather
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21:06<manveru>hmm
21:14[~]Sacro charges manveru $5 "hmm" tax
21:15<Greyscale_>will the source compile on PPC
21:15<Greyscale_>?
21:16<+glx>yes
21:16<+glx>openttd is endian safe
21:16<Greyscale_>OK
21:16<Greyscale_>I was mostly asking incase there was some i386 hackery going on in it
21:17<Sacro>glx: what about middle endian?
21:17[~]glx goes to sleep :D
21:17<Sacro>oh foo :p
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21:38<Greyscale_>hey, anyone got a openttd.cfg I can see?
21:53<Greyscale_>Anyone?
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22:33<Noldo>mornings
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23:28<Noldo>Here's the clean up thing I tinkered with last night http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1149
---Logclosed Wed Aug 22 00:00:11 2007