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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-08-28

---Logopened Tue Aug 28 00:00:47 2007
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01:47<CIA-3>OpenTTD: rubidium * r10995 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: unify the way to get the displayed maxium speed of a vehicle. Patch by nycom.
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03:45<TrueBrain>how boring this channel is lately... :p
03:45<SmatZ>I may type here a lot of junk text it you wish ^_^
03:46<TrueBrain>no, you may not
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04:07<TrueBrain>morning Nickman
04:08<Nickman>goed morning :)
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04:11<Noldo>It seems I was a bit sick yesterday, didn't start my computer for a whole day
04:12<Nickman>Any progress on the bricks TrueBrain?
04:12<ln->although there's one sensible solution;
04:12<ln->Noldo didn't start his computer the whole day because it was already running.
04:12<TrueBrain>Nickman: yes; I won't continue with it :) I have shown that it is possible, and doable, which is enough for me that OpenTTD itself isn't the limitator for 32bpp
04:13<TrueBrain>as now I need all my time for other non-OTTD things, I won't continue with it :) Feel free to pick it up ;)
04:13<TrueBrain>and else, let it to Wolf01 :)
04:13<Nickman>no more time for OTTD?
04:13<TrueBrain>doubtful :)
04:13<SmatZ>really, you won't develop OTTD any further?
04:13<SmatZ>oh no!
04:14<TrueBrain>In 6 days college starts again :)
04:14<TrueBrain>busy busy busy :p
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04:20<@peter1138>TrueBrain: was someone suggesting that openttd was limiting for 32bpp?
04:20<Nickman>in 6 days already? Here it's only the 24'th of september
04:21<TrueBrain>peter1138: not directly, but now I know for sure that it isn't any problem
04:21<TrueBrain>even to get things pixel perfect, Blender for example runs just fine
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04:27<Nickman>No more development of the NoAI branch? :)
04:31<TrueBrain>haha, I am sure that will continue :)
04:42<TrueBrain>I try to get a DHCPd in the air which my mobile understands, but it fails badly :(
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05:04<TrueBrain>I have LAN connection, gateway is set just fine, and still my mobile things he doesn't have a good connection :(
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05:04<TrueBrain>might be because pinging doesn't work, hmm...
05:04<TrueBrain>(by my ISP)
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05:43<alex_>anyone follow the stock market here?
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06:56<SmatZ> 74.49 10.86 10.86 59286 0.00 0.00 DeleteEntryFromSpriteCache()
06:56<SmatZ>nice, 75% of the time freeing up the sprite cache
06:58<@peter1138>make it bigger
06:58<@peter1138>the default size is suitable for the 8bpp graphics and a few newgrfs
07:01<SmatZ>16MB now, didn't help a lot :(
07:03<SmatZ>64MB cache, ~60% in DeleteEntry...
07:03<Eddi|zuHause2>32bpp will probably use about 4 times the space than 8bpp...
07:03<@peter1138>maybe you have millions of sprites...
07:04<SmatZ>I am playing openttdcoop savegames
07:04<SmatZ>well, with paused time...
07:05[~]SmatZ dumb, I was editing a different file :-x
07:10<SmatZ>peter1138: with 64MB cache it is much better, thanks
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07:46<Eddi|zuHause2>"The update from when the authorities' opinion change is a bit more difficult" <- why? just throw a MarkWholeScreenDirty() anywhere the town rating changes
07:46<svip>I know.
07:46<svip>But wouldn't that be a bit much?
07:47<svip>And it is only required when the authority zoning is on.
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>sure, add an if()...
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>the screen is only drawn once per tick
07:47<svip>Which file does that?
07:49<Eddi|zuHause2>town rating usually gets changed during town procession (probably town_cmd.cpp), and user interaction (clearing, landscaping, etc.)
07:49<svip>I assume they call a function called something similar to "ChangePlayerRatingForTown()".
07:50<Eddi|zuHause2>then grep for that :)
07:52<@Bjarni>MarkWholeScreenDirty() is slow so it shouldn't be used every tick. However I think it can be hard to avoid in this case
07:52<svip>:[ Yeah.
07:54<Eddi|zuHause2>you might also insert a proximity check, so towns at the other end of the map do not cause that, but i don't know how to easily do that
07:54<@Bjarni>add that to the todo list. First get it working, and then you can break it with optimisation :p
07:54<Eddi|zuHause2>and you only issue that function if it actually goes over the threshold you set
07:55<Eddi|zuHause2>not for every tiny change
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07:56<Eddi|zuHause2>note that there are different thresholds for "like" and "dislike", depending on what you want to do (e.g. destroying a house, destroying a road, building a station)
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07:56<svip>:o Oh dear.
07:56<svip> if(_current_player == _local_player)
07:56<svip>if((_zoning.outer==CHECKOPINION)| (_zoning.inner==CHECKOPINION))
07:56<svip> MarkWholeScreenDirty();
07:56<svip>That is the code I have added.
07:56<Eddi|zuHause2>that was not the cable for the vacuum cleaner :p
07:57<Greyscale>Request: Make purchased land go green over time
07:57<@Bjarni>wrong switch :(
07:57<Greyscale>brown is ugleh
07:57<svip>However, I think it'll call a function in zoning_cmd.cpp
07:57<@Bjarni>you mean brown is a shitty colour?
07:57<Greyscale>it doesn't make sense
07:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: that is easy, look at how it is done for grass tiles, and find appropriate map bits
07:58<Greyscale>just because *I* own the land doesn't mean I've plowed it
07:58<Greyscale>also: Trees should probably not be removed because I purchased it
07:58<Greyscale>doesn't make a bit of sense
07:58<svip>:/ What?
07:58<svip>You buy land so you can build an airport later on.
07:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: that is a lot more difficult, because free map bits are not infinite
07:58<svip>You don't want trees.
07:59<Greyscale>svip, but its ugly
07:59<svip>Who cares?
07:59<svip>Then don't buy land!
07:59<Greyscale>I bought the land, why does it have to look like I ploughed it?
07:59<svip>Cause you did.
07:59<svip>You just don't know it yet.
07:59<Greyscale>*salts the earth*
07:59<svip>Good boy.
07:59<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: because you don't want to pay clearing costs again
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08:00<Greyscale>I really don't care about that. If I can afford to buy land, I don't give two shits about that :P
08:00<svip>You need to clear grass to build on it, Greyscale.
08:00<Greyscale>Anyway, why have I cleared it? I own it, but why must I clear it?
08:01<svip>Cause you don't build on grass.
08:01<svip>It's unstable.
08:01<Greyscale>but I don't want to yet.
08:01<svip>Well, then you'd have to pay an extra time for removing the grass.
08:01<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: sure, clearing grass is cheap, but clearing trees costs valuable "authority points"
08:01<Greyscale>can't build on mud either
08:01<svip>why doesn't local authorities care when I reshape the land, Eddi|zuHause2?
08:02<svip>Oh, you build a mountain in our backyard.
08:02<svip>Who cares? But that tree there, NOES!
08:02<svip>Yeah, we know you destroyed our farmland as well.
08:02<@Bjarni>trees are important
08:02<svip>But you can't touch our trees.
08:02<@Bjarni>trees are alive
08:02<@Bjarni>it would be murder
08:02<svip>And farmland isn't?
08:03<svip>And farmland gives foods.
08:03<@Bjarni>farmland is equal to fishing and hunting
08:03<svip>Which reminds me.
08:03<svip>I need food.
08:03<@Bjarni>do I look like I care? :P
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08:05<Greyscale>Why does the monorail still go chuffchuff?
08:06[~]Greyscale asks the hard hitting, critical questions here.
08:09<@Bjarni>it's by design
08:09<@Bjarni>we like vehicles to behave like that
08:10<Greyscale>An electric monorail that goes chuff chuff?
08:10<Greyscale>anyway: Anyone got junction tutorials?
08:10<Greyscale>I'm bored of my double clover
08:11<@Bjarni>well, basically we try to make them so ugly that nobody will use them
08:11<@Bjarni>everybody knows that real trains runs on two rails
08:11<Greyscale>well duh
08:11<Greyscale>Yeah, the monorail sucks TBH
08:11<Greyscale>I jump to the maglev
08:11<@Bjarni>and not 1, 3 or 4
08:12<Greyscale>I use 3 :|
08:12<Greyscale>and 1 for haulage
08:12<Eddi|zuHause2>he means 1, 3 or 4 rails
08:13<@Bjarni>1 is monorail, 3 and 4 has some extra rails for power supply
08:13<@Bjarni>if you need external power, you should use overhead wires
08:15<Greyscale>Eddi|zuHause2, aah!
08:15<Greyscale>I use maglev simply because its a fuckton faster.
08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>use a real trainset...
08:17<Greyscale>you mean a newgrf?
08:17<Greyscale>Actually, thats a point
08:17<Greyscale>anyone got a decent one?
08:18<@Bjarni>the DB is is nice
08:18<@Bjarni>so is the UK set
08:18<@Belugas>mmh... i think this is worth BOOKMARKING!!!
08:18<@Bjarni>you didn't knew that one?
08:19<Greyscale>I might try the UK set
08:19<Greyscale>how do I load one into a server?
08:19<@Bjarni>the UK set is actually a bit harder as the trains are more expensive to build/operate
08:19<@Bjarni>makes the game more interesting
08:19<@Bjarni>you add the grf file(s) into the data dir
08:20<@Bjarni>and then you activate them in the newgrf menu (in main menu)
08:21<Greyscale>its a server..
08:22<@Bjarni>you need to be admin to enable newgrf files on a server
08:22<Greyscale>yesyesyes, I wouldn't be yammering about it if I wasn't an admin :P
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08:23<Eddi|zuHause2>write them in [newgrf] section before generating the map
08:23<@Belugas>i did, Bjarni :) this is a dramatic effect done in order to put some emphase on the link you gave us so kindly :D
08:23<Eddi|zuHause2>or activate them in local game, and open that savegame on the server
08:23<@Bjarni>I started to wonder what kind of (censored) guy you might be :P
08:23<@Bjarni>but I had a feeling you didn't mean it honestly
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08:26<@Belugas>little by little, you will discover how wonderfull of a compagnon i really am ;)
08:27<Greyscale>how do I write them into the conf?
08:27<Greyscale>and why does a manual save on the server take far longer than autosave?
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08:31<Greyscale>eddi, how do I write them into [newgrf] ?
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08:34<@Belugas>Greyscale, do you have a text editor?
08:34<@Belugas>use it
08:35<Greyscale>I'm not that fucking stupid
08:35<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: paths are relative to the data dir
08:35<Greyscale>I ment what is the format for writing them in
08:35<Greyscale>or is there some other hoops I must jump through?
08:35<@Belugas>you should use more precise question... like "what is the format of each entry of the section [newgrf]"...
08:36<@Belugas>as you wrote them, it is perfectly legit
08:36<svip>Ooo, Bjarni.
08:36<svip>Now it's soon 200 years since the Copenhagen Bombings.
08:36<@Belugas>expect that you have to keep in mind it is all based on the folder "data"
08:36<@Belugas>so, if you grf file is on a sibfolder, you have to happend the namer of that subfolder
08:37<Greyscale>Belugas, OK.
08:37<Greyscale>so I've stuffed them into /data
08:37<Greyscale>do I put ./data/some.grf or just some.grf
08:38<Noldo>28 1635 06 < Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: paths are relative to the data dir
08:38<Greyscale>didn't see that bit
08:38<Greyscale>*opens eyes*
08:39<Noldo>I've noticed it few times myself when reading a backlog I manage to skip the line with the information I'm looking for
08:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Greyscale: note that these settings will only apply to new games, not old savegames
08:40<Greyscale>yeah, I was busy typing too much to miss it
08:40<Eddi|zuHause2>(it is usually a bad idea to switch vehiclesets midgame)
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08:41<Greyscale>yeah, I'm doing a reset
08:41<Eddi|zuHause2>a propos vehiclesets, did MB give any kind of information when he wants to release version 0.9?
08:55<Greyscale>Wow, the UK newgrf really does give you some heck of a choice
08:55<Greyscale>haha, we actually have some of these where I live (sprinter)
08:56<Greyscale>heh, built '91, 16 years life span
08:56<Greyscale>thats quite true, given they've just started replaceing them this year
08:57<Greyscale>haha, what?
08:57<Greyscale>Thats crazy
08:58<Greyscale>"time is cyclical, we go back to using steam"
09:00<Greyscale>I'm pissed now. I spent extra going for electric rail and the best thing I can get is a fucking fuel cell powered unit :| fark.
09:01<Eddi|zuHause2>electric does not actually cost extra (for now)
09:04<Greyscale>Never mind then :P
09:04<Greyscale>also: Why does this fuel cell train get 'lectric sparks?
09:04<Greyscale>I recon it won't run without electric track
09:05<@peter1138>I reckon you are wrong.
09:05<Greyscale>EXTRA EXTRA:lazy finger misses k, read all about it
09:06<Eddi|zuHause2>fuel cell is some kind of glorified battery
09:08<Greyscale>its hydrogen, isn't it?
09:08<Greyscale>But its still a battery I guess
09:08<Greyscale>you put energy into making hydrogen and oxygen from electrolysis of water
09:08<Greyscale>and get x watts back out
09:09<Greyscale>the only true forms of power is the sun (solar)
09:09<Greyscale>wind is just the actions of the sun on the body of air
09:09<Greyscale>and fossil fuel is just decomposed living shit that grew from solar energy
09:10<Greyscale>and the sun is a fucking giant fireball
09:10<Greyscale>Fuel cells are very good form of battery though, I guess
09:10<Greyscale>no heavy metals in the actual battery chemestry
09:11<Greyscale>and the only local output is water.
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09:28<Greyscale>I *REALLY* like this
09:28<Greyscale>2tone paint is pimp
09:28<Greyscale>white+red <3
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09:31<@peter1138>Greyscale: where you do think solar power comes from?
09:31<Greyscale>all forms of energy come from the sun, mostly indirectly.
09:31<@peter1138>where does the sun get its energy?
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09:33<Greyscale>big fuckoff fusion reaction
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09:54<@Bjarni><svip> Now it's soon 200 years since the Copenhagen Bombings. <--- err.. yeah. Didn't really think of that. Now it's around 200 years ago that no good Nelson made the first bombardment of civilian targets
09:54<@Bjarni>now that you mention it, I can't remember we ever retaliated, so we better do that now :p
09:54[~]Bjarni sets mode +b *!*@*.uk
09:55<Greyscale>uhoh D:
09:55<Greyscale>Actually, I'm a dot com
09:55<Greyscale>anyway: How can I show what buildings are in the catchment area of a station?
09:56<Greyscale>and I think the catchment area of larger stations should be bigger than that of smaller stations
09:56<@Bjarni>what do you mean?
09:56<ln-_>Bjarni: are you referring to peter1138?
09:57<ln-_>Bjarni: surely he wasn't born 200 years ago.
09:57<@Bjarni>you want to add some GUI thing to highlight buildings in the catchment area of a specific station or ?
09:57<Greyscale>Bjarni, I'd like to see what buildings are in the effective coverage area of the station
09:57<Greyscale>yeah, like when I'm placing it
09:58<@Bjarni>try to turn catchment area on in the build station window
09:58<@Bjarni>ln-_: not THAT Nelson. The one on Trafalgar square
09:59<Greyscale>yes, like that, but I want it *after* its built
10:00<@Bjarni>it's interesting that they made him a lord and built statue(s?) of him, while today a person ordering the soldiers to fire on surrendering unarmed civilians would end up in Haag
10:01<@Bjarni>specially since his orders was "to disable the navy so they could not aid Napoleon, but try to harm the Danes as little as possible, because they are nice people"
10:02<@Bjarni>Greyscale: well, use the same code as the station highlight (maybe make it a function of some sort to share it) and then.... make a button in the station window or something to turn it on and off
10:03<Greyscale>Any way to set a server to double speed?
10:03<Greyscale>waiting for my trains to slowly slowly pootle around
10:03<Greyscale>I need money for an oil route :|
10:03<@Bjarni>fast forward in multiplayer drops clients faster than you have a chance to react
10:04<Greyscale>I'm connected to it by 100Mb.
10:04<Greyscale>well, 20ishMb really
10:04<Greyscale>the last connection to my laptop is wifi
10:05<@Bjarni>because the server sends a package telling when to move to next tick. If the server is too slow, then the game slows down. The clients never reply with a "ready for next tick", so they have no way of telling that they can't keep up and drops because they become too far behind
10:05<@Bjarni>it's not a bandwidth issue, but a CPU issue
10:05<Greyscale>trains be pootlin', yo
10:05<Greyscale>on which end?
10:05<Greyscale>The server or the client?
10:05<Greyscale>my powermac makes a great server for this
10:05<Greyscale>300Mhz and it manages not to suck
10:05<+glx>but the main problem is when server is faster than client
10:06<@Bjarni>well, in theory fast forward would work if and only if the server is so slow compared to the clients that the clients will never have any problems keeping up
10:06<Greyscale>fuck fuckfuckity shitfuck
10:06<Greyscale>he just left
10:06<@Bjarni>who left?
10:06<Greyscale>the icecream van D:
10:07<@peter1138>or you could implement variable fast forward
10:07<@peter1138>and slow forward, for the slightly-too-slow clients
10:07<+glx>slow forward already exists :)
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10:07<@Bjarni>and/or enabling clients to say "pause, I can't keep up at this speed"
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10:08<Greyscale>how about you fix the damn protocol and have the clients say "OK, next frame plz"
10:08<Greyscale>also: Why does windows randomly decide it has an american keyboard?
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10:08<@Bjarni>however I fear that the slow client message could be an issue to slow down network games where strangers can enter
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10:09<@Bjarni>you said it yourself
10:09<Greyscale>I'm trying to get debian to work on my laptop
10:09<Greyscale>the wifi card is supported
10:09<Greyscale>it just hates my AP
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10:10<@Bjarni>send it to a counsellor together with your AP to make them better friends
10:11[~]Greyscale councils them with a hammer
10:11<Greyscale>and if anyone *DARES* say "anger management", I will beat you with it too.
10:11<@Bjarni>reminds me of a tech support reply I once heard. A guy shows up and tells that his powerbook keeps freezing. The reply is to give it a jacket
10:11[~]mikegrb sends Greyscale to court ordered anger management
10:12[~]Greyscale stabs mikegrb in the face with the claw half of the hammer
10:12<@Bjarni>I knew both the guy and the tech support guy, so I have a pretty good idea of how they reacted to that reply. One of them thought it was more fun than the other one X)
10:12<@Bjarni>well all of us thought it was more fun than the guy with the powerbook
10:14<Greyscale>the UK patch is really nice
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10:15<Greyscale>lots of choice
10:15<plaes>anyone with "superuser" access to flyspray?
10:15<Greyscale>much better options than stock
10:15<plaes>I made a typo in my bug report description
10:18<@Bjarni>which one?
10:19<@Bjarni>so it's right mouse button everywhere it's mentioned?
10:19<plaes>there's also a thread about this feature where the code was reviewed, and noone spotted it until it was too late :)
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10:21<@Bjarni>yeah, I fixed an issue on the bug reporting system
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10:23<plaes>is there any ETA on 0.6?
10:24<@Bjarni>when it's done
10:32<NukeBuster>Is it ok to replace, with The change in code will make the innards more compatible with the code from landscape.cpp. It will allow me to use the same innards for diagonal demolishing and leveling. Which in turn will make it easier to turn the repeated statement into a function.
10:39<plaes>scary.. ;)
10:39<@Bjarni>it's code
10:39<@Bjarni>it's meant to scare off people by looking hard
10:39<NukeBuster>It's about the macro's BEGIN_TILE_LOOP and END_TILE_LOOP
10:39<@Bjarni>if we coded so everybody could understand it, then people would laugh at our bugs
10:40<NukeBuster>those are replaced with 2 simple for loops
10:40<NukeBuster>(the macro's are essentialy 2 do loops)
10:41<@Bjarni>what would the benefit of not using the macro be?
10:41<@Bjarni>using it makes it clear that we go though the tiles
10:42<NukeBuster>i could also use the same code going diagonal...
10:42<Greyscale>Why does my server once its up, get a smattering of queries from lots of odd IP's?
10:42<NukeBuster>as i use the x and y to loop... instead of the tyle
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10:44<@peter1138>BEGIN_TILE_LOOP/END_TILE_LOOP are ugly. that's my comment.
10:45<NukeBuster>so i should be free to use the for loops instead?
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11:03<Greyscale>So what is the stock bug?
11:06|-|Grey [] has joined #openttd
11:07<Grey>So what is the stock bug?
11:07<Grey>Fackin' interwebs.
11:13|-|Greyscale [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:17<Grey>request: The sound of metal on metal sliding as trains are told to emergency stop
11:19<NukeBuster>go record it ;)
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11:21<@Belugas>maybe find a new way of doing that culd replace the macros?
11:21<@Belugas>that was aimed at NukeBuster...
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11:23<Grey>NukeBuster, $10 says there is one on that creative commons site
11:24<NukeBuster>i was about to make at least 2 new functions...
11:24<NukeBuster>level and demolish...
11:24<NukeBuster>which would be called inside the function hosting the loop
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11:31<Wolf01>TrueBrain, i found a glitch on the terrain
11:32<Grey>Can I set the server to default every client to imperial measurements?
11:32<Grey>I hate imperial, but we still measure in miles here
11:32<Grey>miles per hour and metric otherwise
11:32<Grey>needs a "UK measurements" mode
11:33<+glx>it's just a "visual" setting
11:33<@Belugas>NukeBuster, i was refering really to the process of tile walking, in the whole game...
11:33<Wolf01>why? is a per-user settings like the valute
11:33<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
11:33<Wolf01>hi Belugas :)
11:34|-|nairan_zzZZ changed nick to nairan
11:36<NukeBuster>i thought you were and i'm thinking of a way it could be dealt with
11:36<NukeBuster>as i know you guys don't like macros ;)
11:38|-|skidd13 changed nick to skidd13|dinner
11:42<@Belugas>some are good and welcome :) some are not
11:49<Grey>Wolf01, because everything else in the server is UK ish
11:49<Grey>its running the UK trains pack
11:50<Wolf01>but i memorized the costs in €, so if you change it in £ i will buy a train instead another :)
11:51<Wolf01>(is an example)
11:54<Wolf01>but i really feel if i'm making profit with $ or € instead of some other valute, i prefer to play with what i know
11:55|-|skidd13|dinner changed nick to skidd13
11:58<Grey>Wolf01, none of the trains are the same cost anyway in the UK pack
11:59<Wolf01>i'm still of the same opinion, if is a per-user setting there is a reason
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12:09<Grey>Wolf01, I don't give two shits.
12:10<Grey>me and my relatives (all english) use this server for fucking about with trains 'n' shit
12:10<Grey>and the client keeps "forgetting" that I told it to go imperial
12:10<+glx|away>how is set the server?
12:13<Wolf01>i want a feature to set the language as italian when clients join... and maybe to other servers when i create mine
12:14<Wolf01>so when i create mine, all must speak italian
12:14<Wolf01>this is a nice thing for you?
12:14<Wolf01>*is this
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12:24<Grey>Wolf01, No, I own this server
12:24<Grey>I just want to know how to make it make imperial the default >:(
12:25<Grey>also: Question: Why are refinerys so close to the outsides?
12:25<Wolf01>beat your friends with a bat until they understand to set it to imperial
12:25|-|Tino|Home changed nick to TinoM
12:26<Wolf01>i don't want a lager where the server master sets per-user settings
12:27<Grey>units = metric -> units = imperial.
12:27<Grey>I win.
12:31<Wolf01>is really so difficult for you to remember your friends to set it so? i already hate that some custom scenarios have grf saved on them, i want to play with mine settings in solo play, why do i must play with the settings decided by another player?
12:33<Grey>But it forces metric *every time*
12:33<Grey>so you're always fishing around in that menu to change it
12:33<Grey>but now I win. So there.
12:33<Wolf01>because it is saved in the scenario, open it with your editor, change it to imperial ad save it again
12:34<Grey>It isn't a scenario.
12:34<Grey>Its a random gen.
12:34<Grey>And the sevrer was using metric.
12:34<Grey>Now this is a pointless conversation.
12:34<+glx>then change the server setting
12:34<Grey>I did
12:34<Grey>about 20 lines ago
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12:38<Eddi|zuHause2><Grey> and the client keeps "forgetting" that I told it to go imperial <- settings are saved, change it from the title screen if you want it to be remembered for new games
12:39<Grey>its a server game
12:39<Grey>the server was forcing metric
12:39<Grey>now its forcing imperia
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12:43<Eddi|zuHause2>changing the config file is the same thing as changing from the title screen
12:43<Eddi|zuHause2>and it is not "forcing" it is merely "suggesting"
12:47<Grey>where does windows keep its config?
12:49<@Belugas>lots of places
12:49<@Belugas>ini files, registries...
12:49<Grey>In reference to the game...
12:50<+glx>you need to specify the version
12:51<NukeBuster>@Belugas: Is it better to have one tile_loop function that has a flag to do the action diagonally or 2 functions (tile_loop, tile_loop_diagonal)
12:51<+glx>by default in My docs/openttd
12:51<@Belugas>good question NukeBuster.
12:52<@Belugas>from what i remember,
12:52<@Belugas>both ways are quite different
12:52<+glx>Grey: unless you put one in openttd.exe dir
12:52<@Belugas>so i can imagine having two loop fnct are possible,
12:52<Grey>Why is there no electric rail in the tropical map?
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12:52<@Belugas>that's bad...
12:52<+glx>no electric trains in default grf
12:52<@Bjarni>Grey: do you have any electric engines?
12:53<@Bjarni>because glx most likely has the answer
12:53<Grey>I thought I replaced it with the UK newgrf
12:53<@Bjarni>newgrf can add them though
12:53<+glx>UKRS is for temperate
12:53<Grey>I see the issue
12:53<@Bjarni>read the readme. It solves most issues :p
12:54<Grey>I want 'leccy D:
12:55[~]Grey tummy rumbles. "urk"
12:55<Grey>time to go find food
12:55<+glx>try NARS for tropical but I don't know if it has electric engines
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12:58<@Bjarni>it has
12:58<@Bjarni>I'm pretty sure it has GG1
12:59<@Bjarni>likely others too
12:59<Sacro>stupid internets
12:59<@Bjarni>Sacro: it's not all of them, that's stupid. Pick the right one and stay with it
13:00<Sacro>Karoo's DNS just went down :(
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause2>then you picked the wrong one, apparently :p
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13:12<Eddi|zuHause2>now see what you did...
13:13<TrueBrain>for anyone who is interested: <- OpenTTD is now also available via Mercurial
13:14<Noldo>what in the world is that?
13:14<Prof_Frink>*another* vcs
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13:18<+tokai>whats wrong with SVN? :)
13:19<TrueBrain>absolutely nothing
13:22<ln-_>which one is the primary one for ottd?
13:22<TrueBrain>SVN of course
13:24<ln-_>are they synced with each other?
13:24<TrueBrain>same as with git
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13:37<MrBrrr>Hey, anyone here knows the OpenTTD code a bit?
13:37<@peter1138>doubt it
13:37<Noldo>more meta!
13:38<TrueBrain>who wrote OpenTTD anyway?
13:39<Noldo>hmm, let's see the credits, won't find my name there!
13:40<Grey_>yay for b3ta
13:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Noldo: it's open source, you can always write your name in there, and redistribute it
13:41|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
13:41<MrBrrr>Gotta like Brian Blessed :)
13:42<@Belugas>hooo... another montrealer :)
13:42<Sacro>he is amazing
13:44<MrBrrr>Montreal rocks :)
13:46<Sionide>the band "Of Montreal" also rock
13:46<Noldo>MrBrrr: anyway, just ask the question you had in mind
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13:46<MrBrrr>Which functions handles the city growth?
13:47<MrBrrr>Not the actual town growing itself, but deciding if the town grows (rate and such).
13:47<@Belugas>[14:45] <MrBrrr> Montreal rocks :) <--- Yeah :) unless you're stuff on Descaries during rush hours, but tghat's the same on every big city :)
13:48<@Belugas>[14:46] <Sionide> the band "Of Montreal" also rock <---- Stone also Rock
13:48<@Belugas>stone... rock... got it?
13:49<Sionide>yes i got it
13:50<@Belugas>... stupid joke, isn't it ?
13:50[~]Belugas is a bit tired
13:53<Wolf01>me too
13:53<Noldo>MrBrrr: there's GrowTown in town_cmd.cpp maybe you can track it from there
13:54<MrBrrr>Wasn't openTTD coded in C? argh
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>it was, until all files got renamed :p
13:54<Eddi|zuHause2>but that is like 3000 revisions ago
13:54<@Belugas>in trunk, not in "stable"
13:55<@Belugas>stable is still in c
13:55<MrBrrr>The trunk also has the new cargo packets right?
13:56<MrBrrr>trunk it is then
13:56<Noldo>what did you have in mind?
13:58<MrBrrr>Well, city growth heh
13:58<MrBrrr>As it is, it's quite depressing.
13:59<Noldo>depressing what way?
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14:01<Mark>sorry :<
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14:02<@Belugas>MrBrrr, you could check UpdateTownGrowRate in the same town_cmd.ccp file too
14:03<Grey_>why does the newer cpp version compile far faster?
14:03<Grey_>the c version took ages on my server
14:04<@Bjarni>that's a good question
14:04<@Bjarni>it's faster to determine dependancies
14:04<MrBrrr>very true :)
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14:05<@Bjarni>the actual compilation time is likely a little bit slower, but since the delay between typing make and the actual start of the compilation is smaller, then it might feel faster
14:06<@Bjarni>the dependancy stuff really slowed down with lag on disk access
14:06<@Bjarni>or slow disks
14:07<@Bjarni>so if the CPU and the files (homedir) is in different servers connected with a LAN, then you will really notice a difference
14:07|-|Dark_Link^ute changed nick to Dark_Link^
14:07<@Bjarni>Grey_: is that explanation enough? ;)
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14:16<@Bjarni>Greyscale: did you miss my reply?
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14:17<Greyscale>I got it
14:17<@Bjarni>I think this is the best answer I can give you
14:17<Greyscale>its a slow machine with a fast disk
14:17<Greyscale>and its not x86 either
14:18<@Bjarni>if this isn't the reason, then I guess it has something to do with cosmic radiation and stellar placement
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14:23<skidd13>Which is faster AddTileIndexDiffCWrap(tile, tilediffc) or TILE_ADD(tile, ToTileIndexDiff(tilediffc)) ?
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14:46<@Belugas>skidd13, have you tried TIC/TOC for profiling?
14:49<skidd13>I tried my performance meter and it was defenetly TILE_ADD.
14:53<skidd13>Belugas: But It would be nice to hear some others result, cause the compiler could cause diffrences
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14:55<@Bjarni>I tried TIC/TOC on a PPC and compared two functions. A took 100% (ref) and B took 150%. I then moved the source to a different computer and used GCC to compile the code again. Now both functions took 150%
14:55<@Bjarni>Function A was simply faster on PPC
14:55<@Bjarni>than on the x86
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14:55<@Bjarni>B took somewhere around the same on both
14:55<@Bjarni>which is rather interesting
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14:59<Greyscale>heh. As my 'leccy trains roll about it sounds like a hoove
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15:38<MrBrrr>Which functions handle vehicle depots?
15:38<MrBrrr>Depot.cpp and Vehicle.cpp?
15:38<skidd13>Hmm, towns are able to build crossing bridges!
15:39<skidd13>At least at my patch. But I didn't modify the CMD for construction.
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15:51<skidd13>Are the cmd's threaded?
15:59<+glx>only saving to disk is threaded
15:59<+glx>and landgen
15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>and NoAI ;)
16:00<+glx>doesn't count (not in trunk :P )
16:00<skidd13>Then explain this:
16:01<TrueBrain>we call it a bug!
16:02<skidd13>TrueBrain: so :-[
16:02<@Bjarni> <MrBrrr> Which functions handle vehicle depots? <--- that depends on what functions you want to touch. Vehicles has the VehicleEnterDepot() function, which basically handles vehicle related stuff like maintenance, autoreplace and so on. Depot is more the structure stuff
16:03<@Bjarni>they are however somewhat related
16:03<@Bjarni>and reading both wouldn't hurt
16:03<skidd13>TrueBrain: The problem is. That it's hard to reproduce. :(
16:04<skidd13>Or could it be a compiler fault?
16:05<MrBrrr>Was the trunk's "realistic" acceleration improved?
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16:06<@Bjarni>we once had a bug that could "clear" tiles, but only on some platforms. It could result in half bridges and was a result of an overflow in town building upgrades being handled differently on PPC/x86 or different compilers
16:06<@Bjarni>since only the town could do it and it was platform dependant, it was really hard to find
16:07<@Bjarni>somehow your bug look a bit similar
16:09<skidd13>Bjarni: Where was it located cause I'm working with the town code ATM.
16:10<@Bjarni>not sure
16:10<@Bjarni>ludde fixed it
16:10<@Bjarni>and it was on the old SVN server, so we lost the diff
16:12<@Bjarni>but basically it could make a 2x2 building on PPC OSX even when there was no room. The 2x2 building was then replaced by a 1x1 building, so it just cleared 3 tiles of whatever they contained and put grass on them. Windows just moved to the 1x1 building without affecting other buildings
16:12<@Bjarni>and this was due to different overflow handling of an unsigned char
16:14<@Bjarni>at least this happened like once every say 2nd year on a 256x256 map, so it was at least possible to reproduce
16:15<@Bjarni>the bug you found is either really new or really rare
16:15<@Bjarni>or both
16:16<skidd13>rare the same thing occured at least 4 month (real life) ago. SO very rare
16:17<@Bjarni>I never noticed it
16:18<@Bjarni>looks like it's a bug in the town bridge building code. Do you have any idea of which bridge came first?
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16:21<@Bjarni>but it looks like it fails to detect that another bridge is there and build one anyway. I guess it builds the ends and then give up because the water tile is blocked, but the ends aren't removed
16:21<@Bjarni>but it's just a guess
16:21<@Bjarni>but the ends shouldn't have been built in the first place
16:22<skidd13>My guess is that it's located in CMD_BUILD_BRIDGE, cause that's what the town_bridge_construction calls
16:23<@Bjarni>that's very likely
16:23<skidd13>I take a look at it tomorrow. Good night
16:23<@Bjarni>goodnight skidd13
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16:26<MrBrrr>Good night?
16:26<MrBrrr>My goodness, where does he live?
16:27<@Bjarni>in the same timezone as me
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16:27[~]Bjarni wonders about leaving as well
16:27<@Bjarni>oh, you are on the other side of the Atlantic
16:27<@Bjarni>I'm sorry
16:27<@Bjarni>being so close to Bush must hurt
16:28<MrBrrr>Not really.
16:28<MrBrrr>He's a funny little skamp.
16:28<@Bjarni>I said Bush, not bush :p
16:30<@Bjarni>wtf is skamp?
16:30<@Bjarni>it's not in the dictionary :(
16:32<Barry>any coopplayers here?
16:32<MrBrrr>Oh, that's me, I keep writing words with Ks instead of Cs.
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16:39<Grey>shit man, this game should be called openCrack
16:39<Grey>its about as addictive :|
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>Barry: you might have more luck in the coop channel...
16:41<Eddi|zuHause2>MrBrrr: writing 'k' instead of 'c' is a very germanism :p
16:41<Eddi|zuHause2>it's why all KDE programs look so german :p
16:42<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, most people in here are from europe...
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16:48<@Bjarni><MrBrrr> Oh, that's me, I keep writing words with Ks instead of Cs. <--- that would explain it and now I agree with you
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16:51<Barry>Thz Eddy but no one there :-(
16:51<Barry>And I had a question about the japan tain set
16:52<@Bjarni>ask away
16:52<@Bjarni>worst case: we can't answer. It's not like we will kill you for asking ;)
16:53<Barry>how can I make the bulletloc on both sides (front and end)
16:53<Barry>of the train
16:54<@Bjarni>I don't get the question :(
16:55<@Bjarni>you want a train with an engine in each end?
16:55<@Bjarni>then just build it and drag the wagons/engines to the train in the order you like
16:55[~]Grey gets bored, renames all the functions
16:56<@Bjarni>if it's rejected, then there is some grf overwrite to prevent that combo and then you aren't allowed to do it... simple as that
16:56<@Bjarni>Grey: that's poor names
16:56<Barry>normally I do that but the direction of the endengine is wrong
16:57<@Bjarni>control-click on the engine to turn it around
16:57<@Bjarni>I coded that feature because I had the same issue in the US train set
16:57<@Bjarni>but it only works on single unit engines/wagons
16:58<@Bjarni>and might have offset issues if the grf file is coded poorly
16:58<+glx>and use it only for "normal" sized ones
16:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i want to drive my BR 18 backwards ;)
16:58<Tefad>woot woot
16:59<+glx>you never finished this patch :)
16:59<@Bjarni>it ended up getting buggy by design :(
16:59<Eddi|zuHause2>was that the one where it puffed from the wrong end?
16:59<@Bjarni>no, the engine actually works as intended
17:00<@Bjarni>but it's hell to put it like that and it was likely to go wrong. I took the screenshot in the moment when it acted correctly
17:00<@Bjarni>it crashed the first like two times before I managed to actually do it and I never cleaned the crashes out of the patch
17:00<@Bjarni>and because of that, I never committed it
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17:01<@Bjarni>but it made Eddi|zuHause2 shut up about his feature request :)
17:02<Eddi|zuHause2>i was about to write "but that is not a BR 18!" :p
17:02<@Bjarni>I know that
17:02<@Bjarni>but odds are that I could make this work with BR 18 as well
17:03<@Bjarni>the problem with this patch is that all sorts of info about the train is stored in the front vehicle. Turning the engine around made the tank engine first, hence a whole lot of info and pointers needed to be updated
17:03<Eddi|zuHause2>in the next step, i want engine switching at terminus stations, and turntables
17:03<@Bjarni>it was a complete mess
17:04<@Bjarni>and I didn't want to add bugs and crashes just to add eye candy
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>haha, someone started the defrag program and got this: :p
17:05<@Bjarni>Barry stopped talking. I guess his problem is gone, so we will never see him again
17:06<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: I don't think that was the intended result :P
17:06<@Bjarni>looks full though
17:06<Eddi|zuHause2>that is the "before" picture, though
17:07<Eddi|zuHause2>but without empty space, there is not much chance of defragmentation :)
17:07<Barry>I have found it Bjarni. I was testing it thats why I was quiet
17:07<@Bjarni>you actually need a decent amount of free space to defrag efficiently
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17:13<@Bjarni>guys, I'm wondering about adding a string to the patches menu. I wrote a patch so it's selectable how to emulate right mouse button on single button mice on OSX and now the patch window contains:
17:13<@Bjarni>:{LTBLUE}Right-click emulation: {ORANGE}{STRING1}
17:13<@Bjarni>if I enable control-click, the ingame control-click will be command-click
17:13<@Bjarni>any idea on how to write that without overflowing the window? :)
17:14<+glx>resize the window?
17:14<@Bjarni>I would still need to figure out how to explain it without writing a novel
17:15<+glx>we need a way to have multiline patches settings
17:16<Wolf01>or at least a little description on the window, and a novel with right-click on it
17:16<Wolf01>like the gui widgets
17:16<+glx>that would work too
17:17<+glx>both needs coding anyway
17:17<@Bjarni>:Control-click (use command as control ingame) <-- is that understandable?
17:17<+glx>make it mac specific :)
17:17<@Bjarni>and should we care that "e)" is outside the window?
17:17<@Bjarni>it is mac specific. It only shows on mac
17:18<Wolf01>you save 3 chars
17:18<Smoovious>can leave off 'ingame'... like, where else are ya gonna use it?
17:18<@Bjarni> <-- forget about the changes to english.txt. I changed them
17:18<@Bjarni>but otherwise this is the patch
17:19<@Bjarni>pretty mac specific as it uses #ifdef __APPLE__ and
17:20<@Bjarni>:Control-click (use command as control) <-- now I'm not sure that n00bs will understand this one :s
17:20<ln-_>leave it out..
17:21<+glx>Bjarni: why not use a bool (as it has only 2 values)
17:21<@Bjarni>because I use 3 different options
17:21<ln-_>glx: Bjarni for some reason wants to use 3 options here
17:22<+glx>I see only 0 and 1 in the diff
17:22<@Bjarni>since I mess with this anyway, I find it logical to be able to turn off the emulation if people have a multibutton mouse
17:23<@Bjarni>so if it's set to 2, then it behaves like in linux and windows, where it relies on the right mouse button only
17:23[~]ln-_ sees no reason for the "Off" setting
17:23<@Bjarni>no special key-mouse combos
17:24<ln-_>Bjarni: if one finds that setting and changes it, i think it won't take many seconds to guess what key to use instead of Control...
17:24<ln-_>so it is unnecessary to try to give much instructions in the option name..
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>so why not call the setting "Right mouse button emulation" {Ctrl-click|Cmd-click|off}
17:25<Eddi|zuHause2>off should probably be 0 ;)
17:25<+glx>sounds more logical yes
17:26<ln-_>Eddi|zuHause2: a bit too long, and "Right-click emulation" is quite unambiguous anyway.
17:26<@Bjarni>users of single button mice are somewhat familiar with right click emulation
17:27<ln-_>users single-button mice include users of all Apple laptops (touchpads).
17:27<@Bjarni>the emulation part will not have to be explained in details
17:29<@Bjarni>maybe I should make an enum instead of using magic numbers
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17:46<@Bjarni> <-- ok updated. Should be a bit more clean now :)
17:48<Rubidium>Bjarni: enums are completly uppercased
17:48<Rubidium>(or rather, they should be)
17:48<@Bjarni>luckily that's easy to fix
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17:51<@Bjarni>reload if you want to see the same letters in uppercase ;)
17:51<ln-_>i still think you could leave out the "(use command as control)"
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17:52<ln-_>if someone changes that setting and notices the Ctrl is not working as it was before, it won't take long to find out what to press instead.
17:52<@Bjarni>I'm trying to avoid countless people showing up here or on the forum "now that I selected control as right key emulation, I can no longer control click anything in the game"
17:53<@Bjarni>not to mention bug reports about this
17:53<ln-_>especially given that Command very often does things that Ctrl does on PC.
17:53<ln-_>that instruction there creates more confusion than it helps, in my opinion.
17:53<+glx>and mac users are smart
17:54<ln-_>glx: precisely
17:54<@Bjarni>"normal" people would likely figure this out, but I care about not being interrupted by the remaining 2%
17:54<Rubidium>every one of them?
17:54<ln-_>"Control-click (use command as control)" -> "Wtf, I'm supposed to use Command-click here too?"
17:55<Rubidium>ofcourse you are
17:55<Rubidium>press both CTRL and command ;)
17:55<ln-_>i'd press the power button first.
17:55<@Bjarni><glx> and mac users are smart <-- there are exceptions. I was once told to fix a powerbook. It had dead hardware. I looked at it and plugged in the power supply and it worked just fine. I charged the battery and reported the computer good to go after testing the now charged battery
17:57<ln-_>Bjarni: i'll promise to personally give guidance on irc to anyone who can't find the ctrl after changing that setting.
17:57[~]Bjarni logs this statement
17:58<ln-_>in "Control-click (use command as control)" it is very confusing that "control" refers to two different "controls".
17:58<Rubidium>command as ctrl might not be a good idea for people with that "special" OSX Dvorak layout
17:59<Rubidium>I wonder what "command"-S is going to do
18:01<@Bjarni>it should open the save window, but I don't think I ever implemented that feature
18:01<Rubidium>well... that's the question
18:01<Rubidium>btw CTRL-S does the screenshot
18:01<@Bjarni>well, nothing happens
18:02<Rubidium>*but* with the "special" OSX Dvorak layout command "switches" (while pressing the key) to QWERTY
18:02<@Bjarni>well, if I set the emulation to CTRL, then command-s will take a screenshot
18:02<Rubidium>so either your application gets CTRL-O or it only get O
18:04<@Bjarni>I don't know that keyboard, so I can't tell you how well it works with my patch/OpenTTD
18:04<Rubidium>Bjarni: then select it
18:04<Rubidium>it's a keyboard layout, just like QWERTY and AZERTY
18:04<Rubidium>so you can actually test it
18:05<Rubidium>*or* you are not in the "smart" mac users group
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18:07<@Bjarni>doesn't appear to have any issues
18:08<MrBrrr>TrainController(Vehicle *v, bool update_image) is used to do what exactly?
18:08<@Bjarni>however using dvorak with a QWERTY keyboard makes typing hard
18:08<+glx>MrBrrr: to control a train as the function name says
18:08<MrBrrr>LOL :)
18:08<MrBrrr>It's the train's "AI" ?
18:09<+glx>yes something like that
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18:12<@Bjarni>hi me
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18:13<@Bjarni>gee, I think I'm getting eccentric. I'm speaking to me, which would very well be myself
18:14<+glx><@Bjarni> gee, I think I'm getting eccentric. I'm speaking to me, which would very well be myself <-- no you're not me
18:14<Eddi|zuHause2>no, you're talking to me
18:15<@Bjarni>no, not you
18:15<@Bjarni>I'm talking to me, not you
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18:16[~]I think this is could be confusing
18:16<+glx>I'm Bjarni
18:16|-|I changed nick to you
18:17[~]you aren't strong enough to carry that name
18:17<@you>--- You are now known as you
18:17<@you>good one
18:18<+glx>you will be highlighted a lot
18:19<MrBrrr>What would be a good tool to use to compile OpenTTD under Windows (I know, forgive me).
18:20<+glx>MSVC++ express 2005
18:20<+glx>it's the easiest way but very big
18:20<+glx>mingw+msys works well too, but may be hard to setup
18:22[~]Sionide is recruiting 3 or 4 more ottd players as we speak
18:22<Sionide>i love spreading the love
18:22[~]Sionide hugs all round
18:22<Sionide>sorry, i'm in a weird mood
18:22<MrBrrr>Yeah, MSVC++ is out of the question :)
18:22<MrBrrr>Mingw and msys it is.
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18:24<+glx>MrBrrr: may be helpful :)
18:24<MrBrrr>Awwwwwww, thanks :)
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18:41<MrBrrr>My username having a space in it sorta messes with MSYS
18:41<+glx>"Please note that MSYS should be installed to a directory path that doesn't contain any spaces."
18:42<MrBrrr>Yeah, that's done.
18:42<MrBrrr>What I mean is that when I start MSYS is uses my username to create the folder inside Home
18:42<MrBrrr>And that contains a space.
18:43<+glx>hmm I see and it doesn't like that
18:43<MrBrrr>Not particularly.
18:43<MrBrrr>It's ok, found a way out.
18:44<Sacro>edit the folder name in /etc/passwd
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19:02[~]you need to sleep
19:02[~]you should go to bed right away
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19:05<MrBrrr>Adding some realism does mean a lot of work, hmmm.
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19:32<@Belugas>[20:05] <MrBrrr> Adding some realism does mean a lot of work, hmmm. <---- one of the reasons I HATE "realism" ;)
19:32<@Belugas>good night me too, me saying to all of you :)
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 29 00:00:55 2007