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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-09

---Logopened Sun Sep 09 00:01:00 2007
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01:06<Pengo__>hey guys
01:07<Pengo__>i got my trains set to 30 days service internval yet they still breakdown, how can i make it better?
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02:11<Wolf01>hello
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02:12<mcbane>morning
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03:43<SmatZ>morning
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04:33<Desolator>hmmm, kinda silent
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05:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11065 /trunk/src/ (14 files): -Documentation [FS#1186]: of the dirty marking/repainting subsystem. Patch by Progman.
05:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11066 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map.h): -Documentation [FS#1091]: of map.*. Patch by Progman.
05:23<mcbane>wow rubidium on patchviewing and comitting spree.
05:24<Rubidium>totally non-intrusive patches ;)
05:25<mcbane>heh
05:25<mcbane>well ya soon back at 134 bugs/feat./patches
05:27<mcbane>what about http://bugs.openttd.org/task/532?
05:28<Noldo>Rubidium: while fixing documentation could you update vehicle.h line 425. It talks about a function that I belive doesn't exist anymore
05:28<Rubidium>pushing patches has an inverse effect on me :D
05:29<mcbane>heh
05:29<mcbane>im not soovious but it is on 100% progress. but anyways im not sure if it really complete.
05:30<Noldo>Rubidium: well, it might have been you that removed GetFirstVehicleInChain() so...
05:30<Rubidium>Noldo: yup, you're right; I think HasFront can even be removed
05:31<Noldo>even better
05:32<Rubidium>anybody know a flag so the (gcc) linker complains about unused functions?
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05:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11067 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: also make it possible to use the advanced vehicle list for other players. Patch by SmatZ.
05:36<Noldo>-Wunused-function
05:40<KouDy_>hey folks... maybe someone could aid me with something in transport tycoon... there are railroad signs right, now i put signs on the rails and then push ctrl and click again, i will get signs with yellow horizontal stripe under that if i click again, i will get white vertical stripe. what is the difference between those?
05:40<KouDy_>next question is what is the point of having any of these anyway?
05:40<Rubidium>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Signals
05:41<KouDy_>thanks
05:42<KouDy_>yea... there were also some orange lights right?
05:42<Rubidium>no
05:44<KouDy_>hmmm
05:44<KouDy_>i remember something you needed to have PTR option on...
05:44<KouDy_>i mean NPF..
05:45<KouDy_>at allowed to move 2 trains through cross rails in the same time... screen would be better i guess
05:45<Eddi|zuHause2>those were PBS, that is a long time ago
05:45<KouDy_>ahhh yes
05:45<KouDy_>PBS
05:45<KouDy_>too bad then
05:50<KouDy_>hmmm i hardly can figure usage for my rails with these pre-signals...
05:51<Rubidium>then your stations aren't big and busy enough
05:52<KouDy_>probably
05:53<Eddi|zuHause2>presignals are generally useful, if you have more trains than platforms at any station
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06:20<guru3>presignals are the win
06:20<dihedral_>hello
06:20<guru3>hello
06:20<SmatZ>:)
06:21<KouDy_>ok i believe you :)
06:21<KouDy_>but then again i barely found usage for my playing...
06:21<guru3>presignals are useful in situations where if a train chooses the wrong path it could block up the line
06:21<dihedral>quit
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06:21<dihedral>much better
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06:22<mcbane>heh
06:22<dihedral>hello Ammller
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06:24<dihedral>any way something could be done agains 'phlooding'
06:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11068 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: remove Vehicle::HasFront as all vehicles have the Vehicle::first pointer correctly set.
06:27<Noldo>dihedral: what?
06:28<dihedral>other players joining a game and 'phlooding' the map :-)
06:28<Noldo>server password?
06:28<guru3>forgive us for being incredibly confused
06:29[~]dihedral forgives guru3
06:29<dihedral>i recall there being a forum topic on, e.g. hindering players from leveling too much land at once, etc
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06:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11069 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: allow slopes under statues. Patch by kaan.
06:32<Wolf01>how much for autoslopes?
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06:42<Rubidium>0,00000000000000001 %
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07:09<SmatZ>openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd-rev/src/engine.h:239: const RailVehicleInfo* RailVehInfo(EngineID): Assertion `e < (sizeof(_rail_vehicle_info)/sizeof(_rail_vehicle_info[0]))' failed.
07:09<SmatZ>will get more info...
07:11<Eddi|zuHause2>sounds like an elaborate version of an "array index out of bounds"
07:12<SmatZ>it happened so fast - I started new game, then let the time flow, so AI built something...
07:12<SmatZ>then it crashed in say 2 months
07:13<SmatZ>again
07:15<SmatZ>there is still something wrong with articulated vehicles
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07:18<SmatZ>maybe damaged newgrf...
07:19<Eddi|zuHause2>AI code... it's time we ripped that out...
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07:19<SmatZ>backtrace shows it happens in LoadUnloadVehicle()
07:20<SmatZ>http://paste.openttd.org/223
07:20<SmatZ>too bad, I never did any newgrf code :(
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10:05<datelpiro>hi
10:08<SmatZ>hi
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10:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11070 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#1217]: due to making an Action2 variable work properly, the NewGRF called other code too that wasn't prepared for non-train vehicles.
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11:54<Rubidium>what a lovely silence from time to time ;)
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12:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11071 /branches/0.5/ (main_gui.c vehicle.c): [0.5] -Fix [FS#1218]: crash when quiting the game in one of the end score windows.
12:01<mcbane>heh we are happy with CIA-1 messages =)
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12:02<mcbane>btw can you add last edited so ya can sort it by that way?
12:02<mcbane>in FS
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12:07<Rubidium>mcbane: I'd rather have a FlySpray that has the option to store the columns you want in your own profile
12:08<Rubidium>as I'd rather have a few columns removed (or moved to the back) so it fits better on my screen
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12:13<Eddi|zuHause>what? you don't have a 1920x1080 display with 6pt font? :p
12:14<Rubidium>no ;)
12:14<Rubidium>I've got 1920x1200
12:15<Rubidium>don't know the fontsize though
12:15<Rubidium>but people always complain that it is "too small"
12:17<Rubidium>on the other hand, my firefox/iceweasel is only half as wide as my screen
12:18<mcbane>u use 1200 x 1024 and the fonts are ok.
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12:27<Eddi|zuHause>mcbane: TFT displays are designed for one fixed ("native") resolution
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12:32<ln->besides, 1200x1024 is neither 16:9, 16:10, 4:3 or 5:4.
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12:36<Sacro>Geben Sie mich dab Geleeschaumgummiring. Ihre HinterteileSIND im Begriff zu explodieren!
12:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11072 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1045]: when a vehicle had a service order, the goto-depot button did not make it possible to stop the vehicle at that depot.
12:44<Rubidium>mcbane: last edited is kinda "useless" as it is not updated when someone adds a comment
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12:56<mcbane>lol sarco
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12:58<Progman>why is there a while loop for the return_cmd_error-macro?
12:59<Rubidium>histerical raisins
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13:02<Rubidium>my suspicion is that it was something like "do { _error = err_code; return MAGIC_NUMBER } while (0);"
13:02<Rubidium>and the do { } while (0); makes it a single block that works nice in whiles, ifs etc.
13:02<ln->actually the "do" in the begin is not needed.
13:03<ln->or.. ok, in some cases yes.
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13:03<ln->forget i said anything.
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: what's "dab" supposed to be?!?
13:04<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: *shrug*
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13:05<Rubidium>"ringel-s" (or however you write it in German), anyway, the thing that looks like a beta
13:06<Rubidium>though maybe they write it as "dass" nowadays
13:06<ln->digital audio ßroadcasting
13:06<Sacro>an esset?
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: in any way, it would be wrong...
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13:07<Eddi|zuHause>and it does not even closely resemble like a "b"
13:08<Rubidium>for somebody ignorant it looks like a B, which is a b in lowercase :O
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, it is "der Ring", so "gib mir _DEN_ [...] Ring"
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13:12<Eddi|zuHause>"daß/dass" are not an article, it only appears at the beginning of minor clauses, not around nouns
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>s/are/is
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>/
13:13<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: anything Sacro says in a non-English language lacks any correct order of words...
13:14<Sacro>indeed :(
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>interestingly enough, the word order is quite correct, it just lacks any kind of sense :p
13:14<Sacro>what does it say?
13:15<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: s/non-English//
13:15<Sacro>Rubidium: Hoe gaat het met je duiven?
13:16<Rubidium>Sacro: ze vliegen, net zoals jij zometeen!
13:16<Sacro>:o
13:17[~]Sacro can't read dutch
13:17<Sacro>Ik geef u een recept voor zetpillen
13:17<Rubidium>@kick Sacro je wilt dus echt vliegen?
13:17|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [je wilt dus echt vliegen?]
13:19<Rubidium>I bet Sacro is now reading the logs of SpComb and returns in a short while...
13:20<Prof_Frink>Sacro: You smell!
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13:20<Rubidium>@kick Sacro en die zetpillen mag je zelf in je achterste stoppen!
13:20|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [en die zetpillen mag je zelf in je achterste stoppen!]
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13:21<Sacro>:o
13:21[~]Sacro hides
13:22<nzvip>o_o
13:22<nzvip>Some day.
13:22<nzvip>When I am awfully lone.
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13:30<Rubidium>you're going to marry Sacro?
13:30<Sacro>^_^
13:30<Sacro>someone loves me
13:36<@peter1138>it's a miracle
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13:42<Sacro>yes :(
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13:56<skidd13>Rubidium: You seem to be watching FS#1161 too, can you reproduce the bug with the scenario?
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14:04<ln->has someone been using DS1820 temperature sensors?
14:05[~]Phazorx looks at channel name and topic
14:06<Noldo>Computer Club Ruut uses DS1822 for tracking temperature of the space where computers are located
14:11<ln->I've been noticing those sensors tend to stop working after 2..3 years of use.
14:11<ln->Any similar experiences, or is it my serial adapters that break them?
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14:27<Rubidium>skidd13: that's just because there is no way it can build roads without slopes from there
14:27<Rubidium>not quite a bug, but rather "bad" luck as the town will not terraform water
14:28<skidd13>But I noticed that something like this could happen in the middle of a flat map
14:29<Rubidium>it's usually the town making it impossible to expand itself -> i.e. bad luck for the town, or rather AI stupidity
14:29<skidd13>I'm glad to hear that.
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>a propos town AI, i play with road layout "improved", and i think the towns often build very straight roads, it should be forced to build road crossings more often
14:31<Wolf01>'night
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14:32<Eddi|zuHause>last time i looked at town code, it only ever built 2 road bits on a new tile, it should randomly also build 3 and 4 road bits at once
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise, the probability is too high, that all possible crossing locations will be blocked by houses
14:34<Greyscale>brb, I heard a girl say desperate about a quarter of a mile away.
14:34<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause: I'll have a look at it
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>Greyscale: i really do not think anybody her cares...
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>*here
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>note, that "last time" is well before new road layouts
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14:42<skidd13>Eddi|zuHause: The default algorithm didn't change by adding the new road layouts.
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but i said i was using the "improved" layout meanwhile, and i do not know how that one works
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14:49<skidd13>it works quite the same, only one different check
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14:51<MarkSlap>I've realized that the fast aircrafts (ca. 2.400km/h) and Lev 4 Maglev-trains (640km/h) are going at the same speed in the game
14:52<MarkSlap>Why is that?
14:52<Rubidium>because Chris coded it that way
14:52<MarkSlap>Okey :P
14:52<Prof_Frink>because openTTD does not implement the planespeed switch.
14:52<ln->MarkSlap: the plural of aircraft is aircraft
14:52<MarkSlap>Okey :D
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>because you do not use nightlies ;)
14:52<MarkSlap>;)
14:53<MarkSlap>I don't use planes anymore because of that :p
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14:54<MrBrrr>Quick question (motivated by lazyness): Which function(s) handle(s) drawing the train and it's wagons?
14:55<SmatZ>ViewportAddVehicles() in vehicle.cpp
14:55<Rubidium>*Dirty*
14:56<Rubidium>DrawSprite
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14:56<Rubidium>Blitter::Draw
14:57<SmatZ>well... depends what part of drawing you mean :)
14:57<Rubidium>AddSortableSpriteToDraw
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14:58[~]Rubidium tries to find more functions that have something to do with drawing of trains, but are totally useless for MrBrrr ;)
14:58<MrBrrr>Woohoo ;) Keep em coming!
14:58<SmatZ>:-)
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>anything in cocoa.* ;)
15:00<Rubidium>BeginVehicleMove, EndVehicleMove, UpdateVehiclePosHash
15:00<Rubidium>AfterLoadVehicles has some influence on the drawing too
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15:01<Eddi|zuHause>ttd_main ;)
15:01<SmatZ>exec(), fork()
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15:29<skidd13>good night
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15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11073 /branches/0.5/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r11039, r11029, r11027, r11024, r11021, r11020, r11018):
15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Underflow that caused overflows in the performance rating [FS#1179] (r11039)
15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix [Windows]: MIDI does not stop when closing openttd [FS#1164] (r11029)
15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not unconditionally assume that a tile has a depot (r11027)
15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Give a more correct error when building some things on tile 0 [FS#1173] (r11024)
15:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not display income/expenses when they do not belong to a "valid" tile, like the money cheat and giving money [FS#1175] (r11021)
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15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11074 /branches/0.5/ (12 files in 2 dirs):
15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r11040):
15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Removing CMD_AUTO from some commands could remotely trigger an assertion [FS#1179] (r11040)
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15:54<ln->has there been any attempts to have a wikipedia-style policy for an open source software project, i.e. allowing anyone to submit changes to version control?
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15:54<Rubidium>is there anybody who cares enough about the stable releases to give the 0.5 branch a little testing?
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15:54[~]ln- is not interested in horses
15:55<Progman>0.5 release testing although 0.5.3 exists? or what do you mean?
15:56<Rubidium>0.5.3 does not exist
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15:56<Rubidium>however, I've (basically) added some fixes to 0.5.3-RC3 and want to release that as 0.5.3
15:57<Rubidium>the 0.5 branch is where the 0.5.X-RCX and 0.5.X are branched of
15:57<+glx>*tagged
15:57<Progman>ah, okay
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15:58<Rubidium>branched/tagged, what's the difference from a SVN pov?
15:59<+glx>none, but we decided to not modify code inside tags
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16:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11075 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: sorting on value did not work as expected. Patch by GeekToo.
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16:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11076 /trunk/src/blitter/ (32bpp_anim.cpp 32bpp_base.hpp 32bpp_simple.cpp):
16:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: MakeTransparent of 32bpp blitter used 0..100; using 0..255 makes it much faster (frosch)
16:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: ComposeColourXXX could work a tiny bit faster when using 256, not 255 as value to divide with; downside is that it can give alpha errors (frosch)
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17:00<ln->what? divide and not bit-shift?
17:01<TrueBrain>any compiler does that for you
17:01<SmatZ>compilers even substitute division by multiplication and shifts
17:01<TrueBrain>@op
17:01|-|mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
17:01<@TrueBrain>hmm, my IRC lost old topics, bah...
17:01<ln->but it's against the ottd coding style not to bit-shift wherever possible.
17:02<@TrueBrain>can any other operator change it back to the old topic?
17:02<@TrueBrain>ln-: where is that defined?
17:02<@TrueBrain>for as long as I remember, we try to replace bitshifts with more readable code
17:02<SmatZ>only difference - when you try to do divide a signed value, it will generate non-optimal shifting code, because it will try to handle negative values...
17:02<@TrueBrain>but, I can be wrong :)
17:02<ln->the unwritten, unpublished coding style manual
17:02<SmatZ>ln- there is division instead of shifts almost everywhere in the code... :(
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17:03<@TrueBrain>ln-: we only have a published coding style
17:03<Tefad>wouldn't the compiler handle this already?
17:03<@TrueBrain>Tefad: yes
17:03<Tefad>and if your types are signed/unsigned, it will know
17:03<@TrueBrain>SmatZ: true, lucky we mostly use unsigned variables :)
17:03<Rubidium>TrueBrain: doesn't your log retain topics?
17:03<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: possible, but I am lazy ;)
17:03<+glx>TrueBrain: 0.5.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | No 'mom', no IRC Quote Website links
17:04<+glx>31/08/07
17:04<Tefad>mom?
17:04|-|[TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices
17:04<@TrueBrain>tnx glx
17:04<SmatZ>mom = moment, not mother
17:04<Tefad>no idea what that is either
17:05<SmatZ>will there be 0.5.3-RC4, or just 0.5.3 ?
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17:07<Rubidium>SmatZ: mom != moment, mom == mother <- that was the reason for the no 'mom'
17:08<Rubidium>at least, that's what I gather from the logs of "way back"
17:08<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes... as I undertand it, people misused 'mom' for 'moment'
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17:08<Rubidium>SmatZ: if people care to test the current 0.5 branch 0.5.3, otherwise 0.5.3-RC4
17:09<nzvip>What's wrong with writing "moment"?
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17:09<Rubidium>nothing, but using 'mom' for moment is
17:09<SmatZ>:)
17:10<nzvip>:o
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17:17<SpComb>http://zapotekii.paivola.fi:8160/
17:18<SpComb>OpenTTD related and such, I'd just be interested in hearing some comments
17:20<guru3>"MyOTTD Like very, very alpha"
17:20<guru3>that's a versioning system i can agree with
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17:27[~]SpComb is off to zZzZz, but is still interested in opinions on the main idea itself, and such
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17:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11077 /branches/0.5/ (7 files): [0.5] -Fix: Possible NULL pointer dereference.
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause><SmatZ> Rubidium: yes... as I undertand it, people misused 'mom' for 'moment' <- it's kind of a "false friend", because in german. "mom" is a very common abbreviation for "moment"
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause><ln-> but it's against the ottd coding style not to bit-shift wherever possible. <- do not use existing code as "precidence case" for coding style... the coding style defines the coding style, not the code
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18:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11078 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
18:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: added 32bpp-optimized, which is almost twice as fast as 32bpp-simple (based on the work of frosch)
18:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: let 32bpp-anim use 32bpp-optimizeds, so he profits from the speed-up too
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18:17<@TrueBrain>so now even more people can play 32bpp :)
18:18<@TrueBrain>(Still 4 times as slow as 8bpp-optimized)
18:18<ln->32 bits is so 90's, i want 64.
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18:22<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: it's reverse for me...
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>8bpp is extremely slow
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18:23<@TrueBrain>of course it depends on your video backend :)
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>btw, i checked 0.5, and it is fast there...
18:24<@TrueBrain>now that is odd, as 8bpp-optimized is almost exactly the same
18:24<@TrueBrain>it just uses more memory
18:24<@TrueBrain>(as it stores all zoom-levels)
18:27<@TrueBrain>hmm, nobody noticed animation no longer works? :s
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18:41<@TrueBrain>now that was stupid, my own mistake :s
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>started with wrong argument? :p
18:44<@TrueBrain>no, I had all 8bpp images converted as 32bpp images without mask
18:44<@TrueBrain>no mask == no animation
18:44<@TrueBrain>grr :p
18:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11079 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix: dirty fix to allow big-screenshots with 32bpp-anim
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18:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11080 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix r11079: fix it, still dirty, correctly, as the last commit was ... wrong ;)
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18:59<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not going to update until i am in a conflict resolving mood...
18:59<@TrueBrain>what do you have as local changes? :)
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>nothing major, but at least i know of two definite conflicts from reading commit messages ;)
19:00<@TrueBrain>you have blitter changes? :)
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>should be easy one-liners
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>no, commits from a few days ago
19:00<@TrueBrain>ah ;)
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>i'm at 11050
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19:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11081 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix r11080: now solved the problem in a pretty way: don't do animation if we are not drawing to the screen-pointer
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19:04<@TrueBrain>oh, tnx to glx for the help on the last commit :)
19:04<+glx>really?
19:04<@TrueBrain>HAhaha :)
19:04<@TrueBrain>[01:57] <glx> use BlitterParams maybe
19:04<@TrueBrain>really :)
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19:04<@TrueBrain>[01:56] <glx> it should not assume it is drawing on screen
19:04<@TrueBrain>those 2 in fact ;)
19:05<+glx>you already known the second I think
19:05<@TrueBrain>have someone saying it to you helps a lot :)
19:05<@TrueBrain>as I didn't realise the solution could be this simple ;)
19:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11082 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp: -Fix r11081: save before commit (yeah, whitelines are important too!)
19:05<@TrueBrain>okay, 4 commits, 3 fixes, you got to love it :)
19:05<+glx>lol @commit
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause>at least it is elementary :p
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19:17<SmatZ>seems you are trying to increase average number of commits per day
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 10 00:00:00 2007