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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-12

---Logopened Wed Sep 12 00:00:47 2007
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02:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11089 /trunk/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: add revision detection to MSVC.
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03:42<Chris82>good morning :)
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04:09<Chris82>does anybody know how tree growth is controlled in the source?
04:10<Chris82>I want to make the random placement of new trees be relative to the daylength so the map isn't covered with jungle in 2 years :p
04:17<SmatZ>Chris82: TileLoop_Trees
04:17<SmatZ>maybe TileLoop_Clear
04:18<Chris82>I'll have a look thx
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05:06<Chris82>funny error: ...why is that??
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05:12<Rubidium>because "somebody" reordered the widgets *and* did use magic numbers instead of enumified constants
05:13<Chris82>too bad I am no magician :D ok I will look where those magic numbers are used with this patch
05:14<Rubidium>magic numbers are most likely in the routemarkers patch
05:14<Chris82>I thought this here "(e->we.dropdown.button == 13 || e->we.dropdown.button == 14)" are magic numbers too, but when I replace with with VLD_WIDGET_ROUTEMARKER_DROPDOWN the button doesn't work anymore
05:14<Chris82>them with*
05:15<Rubidium>there are two widgets for the dropdown menu
05:16<Chris82>which I thought are the equivalent for 13 and 14 so I replaced it but that breaks the menu totally
05:17<Rubidium>is that before or after the speed thingy tab
05:17<Chris82>I introduced this widget names before, but I tried replacing the 13 and 14 after the speed thingy tab because that patch "broke" the dropdown
05:18<Chris82>it was working fine before adding this patch
05:19<Chris82>when I leave the 13 and 14 there the dropdown menu works "fine" except that it is drawn in the completely wrong place
05:20<Rubidium>because it is drawn at the wrong widget
05:22<Chris82>yeah but I don't understand why suddenly
05:23<Rubidium>because somebody changed the order of the widgets
05:24<Chris82>and what do I need to change now so the dropdown is in the right place again?
05:24<Chris82>the speed button was added and a widget called endline
05:25<Rubidium>don't know exactly
05:25<Rubidium>and I can't be bothered to look at the diff either
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06:33<Chris82>does anybody happen to know why BamBam limited the routemarkers patch to 6 colours compared to richk's original version?
06:34<Rubidium>I guess BamBam knows...
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06:42<Chris82>BamBan has vanished tho :( lol
06:42<Rubidium>maybe he's on some German site
06:47<Chris82>he was on TTDLXHQ ( but he isn't anymore for a few months already
06:47<Chris82>he allowed positive penalties in his version of routemarkers which crashes the game, just not too often since they are negative most of the time
06:48<Chris82>I am just fixing this using the original patch of richk
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06:59<SmatZ>A* algorithm cannot work with negative track costs, you would have not to use YAPF
07:00<SmatZ>it will work, will work wrong, or may hang
07:00<SmatZ>you would have to handle at least circles with negative cost...
07:03<Chris82>yup but before testing routemarkers I have to fix the bug that grass growth on unused tracks grows routemarkers instead of grass :D
07:09<Chris82>base = SPR_OLDTRACKS_BASE + 10 * (phase - 1);
07:09<Chris82> printf("%d\nbase");
07:09<Chris82>don't laugh ;)
07:09<Chris82>but how should that printf look like properly?
07:09<Chris82>I want to see what value base has
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07:13<+glx>printf("%d\n", base)
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09:13<@Bjarni>great news
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09:13<@Bjarni>I just won a million EURO
09:13<@Bjarni>I just got a mail telling me this
09:13<@Bjarni>all I need to do is to contact some bank in NL
09:14<@Bjarni>it looks somewhat similar to the Email I got yesterday from some Czech guys, who wants to give me some huge grant
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09:14<DeGhosty>what's the program to check diff?
09:14<@Bjarni>in fact parts of it is copy paste... so do you think I will inform them my bank info so they can transfer the money? :P
09:15<@Bjarni>check diffs?
09:15<@Bjarni>if you want to read a diff, just open it in a text editor. It's a plain text file
09:15<@Belugas>DeGhosty, breath, relax and explain in details your need
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09:18<Ammler>Hi, is there a page where I can see which GRF NFO Actions are in OTTD possible?
09:19<Ammler>i.e. is Action10 possible?
09:19<+glx>there is ottdcompat somewhere in the forum
09:19<+glx>but it is outdated
09:21<@Bjarni>Ammler: make a test grf, compile the newest trunk and check if it works. I guess this is the most up to date info on what features the trunk supports ;)
09:21<@Belugas>and somewhere on wiki.openttd, there is a page about that, but i don't remember url
09:21<@Belugas>Ammler, the best way to know is to look at the sources
09:21<@Belugas>newgrf.cpp is the first place to check
09:22<Ammler>Belugas: yeah, I am looking for that, I've seen it too, but can't find it now
09:22<Ammler>the wiki page
09:22<@Belugas>it's there, i'm sure... and for sure notcomplete. think it was peter's work
09:23<Ammler>:), I try newgrf.cpp and the "real" test
09:23<@Belugas>that's one
09:24<Ammler>yes, thx, "labels" are supported then?
09:25<@Belugas>[10:23] <@Belugas> it's there, i'm sure... and for sure notcomplete.
09:25<Ammler>ok, I try and edit it, if so...
09:25<DeGhosty>i have 2 files
09:26<DeGhosty>i want to generate a diff
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09:27<@Belugas>svn help
09:27<@Belugas>svn help diff
09:27<+glx>diff file1 file2 > output file
09:27<+glx>^^ that is the generic method, as you didn't specify what kind of file you want to compare
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09:32<skidd13>Ammler: IIRC someone of the dev's wrote a grf-action checker.
09:33<Ammler>Action10 is in newgrf.cpp
09:33<+glx>skidd13: yes it's ottdcompat, but it is outdated
09:35<Ammler>Belugas: not complete means, there are more supported things, but everything whats listed should be ok
09:36<Ammler>I take it for that...
09:36<SmatZ> tunnels :)
09:37<@Belugas>supported things indeed, not supported not listed. Some are in trunk supported but not reported on the page
09:37<@Belugas>so WIP
09:37<@Belugas>big time
09:39<DeGhosty>thx glx
09:39<DeGhosty>another noob q
09:40<DeGhosty>how i compile like asdf.c
09:41<+glx>only 1 source file?
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09:44<+glx>gcc -o asdf asdf.c
09:44<DeGhosty>what happen if i need mutiple?
09:45<+glx>gcc -o output <file list>
09:48<DeGhosty>how i compile libraries?
09:50<frosch123>SmatZ: your new patch?
09:50<SmatZ>frosch123: not yet...
09:51<frosch123>it does not look like a mock-up.
09:52<SmatZ>I just hope nobody is working on something similiar :-p
09:53<@Belugas>what is it?
09:53<frosch123>underground railway
09:53<SmatZ>I just transformed some thoughs into real code
09:54<@Belugas>miam :)
09:56<DeGhosty>is it signal in tunnel?
09:56<DeGhosty>and bridge?
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09:57<SmatZ>bridges yes, signals not yet - maybe in few mins :)
09:57<SmatZ>problematic is rendering
09:58<@Belugas>cannot read oog files :(
09:58<@Belugas>damned it
09:58<frosch123>I would let him draw barren land
09:58<@Belugas>how many bytes have you added to the maparray?
09:59<frosch123>I guess currently you clip every tile above a certain heightlevel, draw barren land instead
10:01<SmatZ> <- avi
10:01<SmatZ>yes, MP_VOID is drawn
10:01<SmatZ> <- avi sorry
10:02<@Belugas>fetching :)
10:02<SmatZ>rendering is not in the focus now, I would like to get rid of asserts everywhere :-p
10:04<DeGhosty>we need more view options
10:04<DeGhosty>like simcity
10:04<DeGhosty>in layers
10:05<SmatZ>would be needed
10:06<DeGhosty>or roller coster tycon
10:06<frosch123>Am I the only one, who keeps rewinding and playing?
10:07<+glx>still downloading
10:07<SmatZ>nice if you like it :)
10:07<@Belugas>same here :D
10:07<SmatZ>I have ~40kB upload :(
10:07<SmatZ>err 9% is too few
10:07<@Belugas>and we are eating it up!
10:08<SmatZ>yes.. now 3 uploads atm
10:08<DeGhosty>what are u guys doing?
10:09<@Belugas>looking/typing at irc screen, right now ^_^
10:10<+glx>frosch123: but we can't open .ogg
10:10<frosch123>I only downloaded the ogg
10:10<+glx>I'll mirror the avi when done
10:10<+glx>I have ~100kB upload
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10:11<DeGhosty>oo slow
10:12<DeGhosty>nvm done
10:12<+glx>nooooo 1 leecher added :(
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10:13<DeGhosty>that's awsome
10:13<DeGhosty>i watched it
10:13<DeGhosty>the moutain like disappeared
10:14<DeGhosty>yea earth would look awsome
10:14<Eddi|zuHause3>looks fun ;)
10:14<DeGhosty>it's totally awsome
10:14<DeGhosty>can we signal in it?
10:14<SmatZ>signals will be ready soon
10:15<SmatZ>but the code is unusable for any playing... asserting after almost every action :)
10:15<Eddi|zuHause3>what do you mean with bridges in tunnels?
10:16<SmatZ>bridges outside, tunnels inside
10:16<Eddi|zuHause3>oh, that way :p
10:17<DeGhosty>it's AWSOME
10:17<DeGhosty>oh and add the option to go up a bit
10:17<DeGhosty>i mean when ur tunneling u can change elevation
10:18<SmatZ>I am in the beginning of the code, not caring about GUI now ...
10:18<@Belugas>ur = you're
10:18<@Belugas>u = you
10:20<DeGhosty>when you are tunneling, you can change elevation?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause3>way better :p
10:22<@Belugas>relax, DeGhosty, he's only starting...
10:23<Eddi|zuHause3>looks very promising
10:23<SmatZ>I hope so :) thank
10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>note, when allowing slopes in tunnels, you also need to allow sloped tunnel entrances [similar to sloped bridge ramps] (needs new graphics)
10:25<Eddi|zuHause3>the gui will get a mess :p
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10:26<DeGhosty>do you?
10:26<SmatZ>it won't be a mess, if it would, some features would be disabled instead :-)
10:26<+glx>nice try SmatZ
10:27<DeGhosty>i imagin it would just be an over lay of current graphics
10:27<@Belugas>75% gaaaaa
10:27<DeGhosty>watch it it's AWSOMe
10:33<@Belugas>cannot open the damn file... my system myt be screwed or something
10:33<@Belugas>i'll have AGAIN to wait to go home
10:35<SmatZ>xine-lib doesn't open it, but mplayer does
10:35<SmatZ>on my system ... I have xine bad :)
10:36<+glx>vlc has no pb with the avi
10:36<+glx>firefox didn't like the .ogg
10:36<DeGhosty>.ogg is just a wrapper file
10:36<DeGhosty>vlc have no prob with ogg
10:37<+glx>.ogg is usually a sound file, .ogm is used for video
10:38<SmatZ>Belugas: you may use at least picture
10:39<@Belugas>haa :) thanks
10:43[~]Belugas wishes he could already be home
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10:45<+glx>many people are downloading it but I don't see any comments :)
10:46<@TrueBrain>and I can't get a decent upstream :p
10:46<+glx>TrueBrain: try frosch123 mirror :)
10:46<@Belugas>as usual, the "silent majority" syndrom ^_^
10:46<+glx>he only have the .ogg but a decent up
10:47<@TrueBrain>glx: I can't play ogg
10:47<+glx>vlc can
10:47<@TrueBrain>glx: I can't play ogg
10:48<+glx>TrueBrain: retry now
10:48<@TrueBrain>your http doesn't even reply :p Oh well, 4 minutes left :p
10:49<Eddi|zuHause3>kaffeine (xine) had no problem playing the .ogg
10:50<@TrueBrain>who's work is it?
10:50<@Belugas>SmatZ, from what i can see, you're trying to make "visible" all the tiles that are on the height above tunnel entrance, right?
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10:52<+glx>another fast mirror :)
10:52[~]SmatZ back, had a fast dinner
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10:53<@TrueBrain>glx: as fast as it gets :p
10:53<@TrueBrain>very nice work :)
10:53<@TrueBrain>glx: suprised me you didn't do that ;)
10:53<+glx>I don't have a account
10:53<@TrueBrain>why not?
10:53<+glx>only a libgpmi one
10:53<SmatZ>Belugas: yes,mousewheel sets the _current_height, and what is above it, is not drawn
10:54<SmatZ>thanks :)
10:54<+glx>SmatZ: so you broke zoom handling?
10:54<@Belugas>though so...
10:54<SmatZ>also, things are built on _current_height, and so, 3d map array is needed ... dynamically allocated, so it doesn't eat all memory :)
10:54<SmatZ>glx with ctrl + mouse wheel
10:55<+glx>ha ok
10:55<SmatZ>actually, it may change... now I try to make it working without asserts :)
10:55<@TrueBrain>I hate slow upstreams
10:55<@Belugas>what would be required (it has been discussed before) is to have a block of memory specifically for the tunnel path
10:56<@Belugas>but i think you are talking about closely the same thing
10:56<Phazorx>what is video container for that ogg?
10:56<SmatZ>ogg is container
10:56<Phazorx>mpc seems having an issue recognizing it
10:56<@Belugas>and the drawing of the "above tunnel" tiles could be done with new tiles gfx or else... dunno yet
10:56<Phazorx>so it is ogm?
10:56<@Belugas>but it seems WOW of ao strat :)
10:57<SmatZ>Belugas: yes... but to make things simpler, everything (except MP_CLEAR and MP_TREES) is in the 3d array
10:57<SmatZ>so subway stations, depots etc is possible...
10:57<@TrueBrain>Ogg stream 0 is of an unknown type
10:57<@TrueBrain>[Ogg] stream 1: audio (Vorbis), -aid 0
10:57<SmatZ>allocated in 64x64x1 x-y-z block
10:58<@TrueBrain>I guess my mplayer doesn't know ogm :)
10:58<nairan>winamp can play ogm
10:58<Phazorx>well my ogm splitter doesnt know ogm either
10:58<nairan>ogg and so
10:58<@TrueBrain>I need to recompile mplayer for ogm support... too lazy :p
10:59<Eddi|zuHause3>konqueror says "filetype: theora video"
11:01<SmatZ>yes... originally I wanted to place only MP_RAILWAY and MP_ROAD into the 3d array, but this is easier
11:01<SmatZ>and the 2d array can now be smaller
11:01<SmatZ>to fit only trees
11:01<SmatZ>I am not sure about water yet... eg. building water tunnels and tunnels under water
11:02<SmatZ>but this is so so far... :)
11:03<Eddi|zuHause3>what happened to the raised water level/deep water patch
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11:05<@Belugas>boekabart is the one to ask about it, dunno
11:05<Phazorx>theora was a bad choice of codec whoever made that clip, but i like the idea for sure
11:05<@Belugas>peter1138 was watching over him, i think
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11:10<Ammler>TrueBrain: take VLC...
11:11[~]TrueBrain shots Ammler
11:12<Ammler>hmm, ok...
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11:39<Wolf01>" Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas) - In training, not yet specialized",
11:39<Wolf01>i think this can be updated, don't you? :D
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11:47<Wolf01>eh, he worked on newhouses (in coop with Maedhros if i'm not wrong), he is working on newindustries, he is working on the documentation
11:51<Wolf01>maybe all the credits should be updated, that is only the first line i've see when i opened that source file to look for a function
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12:16<Wolf01>there's somebody who can give a look (without puke around) to this function and maybe tell me what i can do to optimise it?
12:16<Wolf01>is not related to OTTD
12:16<Wolf01>but i don't know who ask :P
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12:33<Eddi|zuHause3>"//skip the first 2 chars "/x"" <- can't you do that in the sscanf instead of copying the string one by one?
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12:36<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean like "/x%2x%2x%2x" as format pattern?
12:37<Wolf01>mmm right
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12:42<Eddi|zuHause3>or "%*2c%2x%2x%2x"
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12:42<Eddi|zuHause3>* means the value is ignored
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12:44<Eddi|zuHause3>i think you miss some guardig against illegal input, though
12:48<Wolf01>uhm, it doesn't work, or maybe i'm dumb
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12:49<Eddi|zuHause3>try the 2nd version
12:50<Wolf01>yes, the second version
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12:50<Wolf01>it works, but i'm trying to avoid the while by passing the /c###### to the function instead of the whole string
12:53<Eddi|zuHause3>there should also be clip and copy functions for strings
12:53<Eddi|zuHause3>instead of a while loop
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>i mean C-strings are just pointers, so passing a substring starting from index i would be the same as passing (str+i)
12:55<Eddi|zuHause3>there must be similar ways with std::string
12:56<Tefad>well there's .cstr()
12:56<Tefad>or is it c_str() i forget
12:56<Tefad>you'd probably want to use a substring though
12:56<moebius_>it is c_str()
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>what i mean, there should be a way without copying
13:01<Tefad>that's what HLLs are all about.. redundancy. ; )
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>and especially a way without copying with a for loop
13:02<Tefad>substring is probably what you're looking for
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13:03<Wolf01>v before v now v in 5 mins
13:03<Wolf01>:D ... :) ... :| ... :(
13:03<Tefad>assuming you want the remainder of the string.
13:04<Tefad>i *think* that's what you're going for, eh?
13:05<Wolf01>the function is called in this way:
13:05<Wolf01>DrawStringExt(10, 110, "/b000000/c00ff00Test: /bFF0000/c0000FFbackground color before the text color", C_GREEN, C_YELLOW);
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13:06<Tefad>i'm failing to understand the goal
13:06<Tefad>oh, this is your business
13:06<Wolf01>it draws a string with a colored text and a colored background
13:07<Tefad>in GetColor() get rid of the loop
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13:07<Tefad>std::string colorcode = text.substr(2, text.length());
13:07<Tefad>er not quite : )
13:08<Eddi|zuHause3>make that substring in the function call, not in the function
13:08<Tefad>i've yet to grasp what in the dickens is going on
13:08<Eddi|zuHause3>i.e. GetColour(text.substring(pos,pos+8))
13:09[~]Tefad nods
13:09<Tefad>is length ever other than 6?
13:10<Eddi|zuHause3>assumig substring takes start (including) and end (excluding), instead of start and count
13:10<Eddi|zuHause3>the latter is how i remember it from pascal
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13:10<Tefad>start and length, 0-based
13:11<Tefad>(the former.. the latter is a size)
13:11<Tefad>"OH NOES".substr(3,2) yields "NO" iirc.
13:11<Eddi|zuHause3>"the former" is the opposite of "the latter"
13:12<Tefad>start value is 0based, length is a size.
13:12<Tefad>clear as mud? awesome.
13:12<Eddi|zuHause3>so substring(pos,8)
13:13<Tefad>ah, it's always 8
13:13<Tefad>probably shouldn't use 'magic' number ; )
13:13<Eddi|zuHause3>that's his job :p
13:15<Tefad>i think he wants 6 btw, not 8
13:15<Tefad>8 was including the /c count
13:15<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, could also use (pos+2,6)
13:16<Eddi|zuHause3>and then leave out the "%*2c"
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13:23<@TrueBrain>doh :(
13:23<Wolf01>i did:
13:23<Wolf01>length = text.copy(buffer, code_length, pos);
13:23<Wolf01>sscanf(&buffer[length], "%*2c%2x%2x%2x", &r, &g, &b);
13:23<Wolf01>but it have weird effects
13:24<Wolf01>(copied from here )
13:24<Wolf01>i should debug it after dinner
13:24<@TrueBrain>Wolf01: printf is your friend :)
13:24<@Bjarni>heh, I got yet another mail telling me I won a lot of money
13:25<@Bjarni>I think they are getting less and less trustworthy :P
13:25<@TrueBrain>wow Bjarni, I think you are the only one who receives such emails!!!!
13:25<@TrueBrain>that I get the spam in my inbox is bad enough, that I have to enjoy it on IRC too..... :s
13:25<Tefad>i think what he really wants is this: iss(text.substr(2,2)) >> std::hex >> col0.r; iss(text.substr(4,2)) >> std::hex >> col0.g; iss(text.substr(6,2)) >> std::hex >> col0.b; col0.r /= 256; col0.g /= 256; col0.b /= 256;
13:25<Tefad>though, i've not coded in C++ since 2001
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13:32<Tefad>you might need to #include <iomanip>
13:32<Tefad>Wolf01: does that even compile?
13:35<Tefad>modified: if ((iss(text.substr(2,2)) >> std::hex >> col0.r).fail() || (iss(text.substr(4,2)) >> std::hex >> col0.g).fail() || (iss(text.substr(6,2)) >> std::hex >> col0.b).fail()) { /* OH TEH NOES, FAILLUR */;} else { col0.r /= 256; col0.g /= 256; col0.b /= 256; }
13:38<moebius_>and people still wants to use C++ when you can write such atrocities ???
13:38<Tefad>else { col0.r = (col0.r + 1) / 256; col0.g = (col0.g + 1) / 256; col0.b = (col0.b + 1) / 256; }
13:38<moebius_>(no pun intended)
13:38<Tefad>moebius_: you want to see java instead?
13:38<moebius_>haha, I know it's even worser
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13:39<Tefad>that's the proper conversion for 8bit to float, for colors.
13:39<moebius_>simply I find funny how hairy things can become
13:39<moebius_>I've made myself some preprocessor abuse in plan C...
13:40<Tefad>i love the token operator
13:40<Tefad>or whatever it's called
13:40<Tefad>#define foo(bar) someshit##bar
13:40<DaleStan>Token pasting operator.
13:40<Tefad>yeah that one
13:41<Tefad>they don't teach you that one if you take a class ; )
13:41<Tefad>likewise with goto
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13:41<DaleStan>I use that to much effect in NFORenum. Whether it's "good effect" or not is debatable.
13:41<Timwi>I'm trying to build the latest version... When I run the result, I get two error messages about ini settings. Anyone know?
13:41<moebius_>hehe, you're right, I've read about it in books, noone said nothing in class
13:41<Tefad>but you only use goto if you're writing drivers or something anyway, and want to optimize at the sake of losing consistency
13:42<moebius_>you can emulate c++ templates using plain C with ##
13:42<DaleStan>Delete or rename openttd.cfg and try again.
13:42<Tefad>moebius_: yup.
13:42<Timwi>I don't have such a file, DaleStan
13:42<Tefad>unless your type is already some preprocessor masterpiece
13:42<Tefad>then sometimes the preprocessor gets confused : \
13:42<DaleStan>There are other uses for goto. Interlaced loops, for one.
13:43<Tefad>eh, that's usually a sign of poor style
13:43<moebius_>yeah, right... the thing that I find impressive about C is that it hardly changed since its conception
13:43<Tefad>and usually continue/breaks resolve those eh?
13:43<Tefad>moebius_: only because the standard library doesn't do diddly ; )
13:43<DaleStan>Nope. Because then I couldn't break out of the enclosing switch.
13:44<Tefad>heh, switch..
13:44<Tefad>that's the only time they overloaded a statement i think
13:45<Tefad>switch isn't really soemthing i would think i could break out of
13:45<Tefad>continue would make more sense, eh?
13:45[~]moebius_ continues making statistics exercises
13:45<moebius_>it's funnier talking about languages and the such
13:45<Tefad>moebius_: you ever realize how funny /me strips would be?
13:45<moebius_>but i recall having an exam next tuesday
13:45<Tefad>perhaps that's why you chose the handle ; )
13:46<moebius_>I have never thought about that one!!
13:46<Tefad>i see
13:46<Tefad>well now you have some fodder for lame joke haters
13:46<moebius_>I've chosen it because of that man which was good at maths
13:47<Tefad>gotcha. this handle is a collection of random keystrokes i liked. picked it out in 1995
13:47<moebius_>and there is also a french guy which makes comics
13:47<moebius_>lol, it's being a lot of time since then
13:47<moebius_>mine was about 1999, I think
13:48<Tefad>my yahoo profile was last updated in 1997
13:48[~]Belugas found a memory leak in grfmaker
13:48<Tefad>Belugas: congrats!
13:48<Tefad>unless of course, you wrote it, and might take offense . . .
13:49<Timwi>I SVN currently slow? I'm trying to update to an earlier revision, and it hangs
13:49<Timwi>I = Is :-p
13:49<Tefad>finding bugs in open source software, at the source level at least, is always pleasing, i would think
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13:50<Tefad>of course this is moot if that project isn't open ; )
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13:53<@Belugas>so grfmaker is not moot since it is an open source software :)
13:53<@Belugas>and what's even more, it is in Delphi :D
13:53[~]Belugas is happy
13:54<Tefad>pascal just needs to die : \
13:55<Ammler>is Delphi something like TurboPascal++?
13:55<Tefad>on steroids, with an IDE
13:56<moebius_>IDE? what's an IDE?
13:56<moebius_>isn't it for harddisks?
13:56<DeGhosty>!google ide ?
13:56<Tefad>integrated development environment
13:56<moebius_>ah, so unix is an IDE
13:57<Tefad>the thing you can click on and see all your functions
13:57<moebius_>it has editors, build tools
13:57<moebius_>and a shell to blend them together
13:57<Tefad>uh, unix is kind of the lack of and IDE
13:57<Tefad>of an.
13:57<Tefad>unix is an OS
13:57<Tefad>it has many tools.
13:57<moebius_>haha, I know
13:57<Tefad>an IDE is a front end to one or multiple tools
13:57<moebius_>I was just joking
13:57<Tefad>see eclipse.
13:57<Tefad>i'm off to eat a burrito then work. toodles
13:58<Ammler>hmm, are there compiler for delphi on linux?
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13:58<moebius_>Ammler: I heard freepascal is somewhat good as well
13:58<blathijs>Ammler: That's a native port of delphi by Borland
13:58<moebius_>don't know which level of delphi compatibility does it have
13:59<blathijs>It used to be rather buggy combined with mouse-over focus
14:00<@Belugas>I've never worked with Kylix. It is my next target.
14:00<@Belugas>blathijs : "Used to be" ? means it has been corrected?
14:00<@TrueBrain>no, it means Kylix is dead :)
14:01<@Belugas>[14:55] <Tefad> pascal just needs to die : \ <--- everyone is entitled to its favorites
14:01<@Belugas>it is dead? ho.. bugger :(
14:01<moebius_>well, pascal is somewhat... rigid
14:01<moebius_>I mean, you cannot make hairy things to awe your friends
14:02<@Belugas>it's how you use it that makes it rigid
14:02<@Belugas>'cause you can make it quite a flexible tool if yo wish
14:02<moebius_>I find at least std. pascal to be "featureless"
14:02<moebius_>but fasttracker2 was done with tubropascal 7
14:02<moebius_>and that amazes me :D
14:04<moebius_>I personally have nothing against pascal, it's just that I prefer not having to touch code written in it
14:04<@Belugas>standard pascal needed to evolve. Borland got Delphi out (granted a migration from Turbo Pascal) and Pascal received the evolution it was required
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14:04<Ammler>delphi isn't oo, is it?
14:05<+glx>it is oo
14:05<@Belugas>i've learned C/C++ long after Pascal/Delphi. I have a profond preference toward the later
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14:05<@Belugas>yes, Delphi is OO
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14:14<Tefad>there you have it. RMS says pascal sucks. : x
14:15<blathijs>21:00 <@Belugas> blathijs : "Used to be" ? means it has been corrected? <-- Don't know, I've never used it since :-)
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14:15<Tefad>also, that statement is probably context with 80's
14:15<Tefad>on that note, i'm really out.
14:15<moebius_>"Pascal is both weak and inelegant compared with Lisp"
14:16<moebius_>well, at least Pascal is easier to write
14:16<+glx>blathijs: lost response I think ;)
14:16<moebius_>the last time I tried learning LISP, I nearly got my pants converted in a pair of parentheses
14:16<blathijs>glx: Perhaps someone else cares :-)
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14:20<+glx>[21:15:09] <blathijs> 21:00 <@Belugas> blathijs : "Used to be" ? means it has been corrected? <-- Don't know, I've never used it since :-)
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14:21<@Belugas>thanks :)
14:21<@Belugas>looks like i may have to find ways to get my own opinion ;)
14:27[~]Belugas downloads freepascal
14:28<@Belugas>which is, ironically, written in c/c++
14:28<TrueBrain>fpc is nice, just it failed when I tried with 64bit code :p
14:28<TrueBrain>although I read that they are the first to produce 64bit windows code in an open source compiler
14:28<moebius_>well, ironically the Borland VCL shipped with C++Builder was written in Delphi, too
14:30<@Belugas>no, that is pretty logical. C++ builder was written way after Delphi. And it was made so that both programs can share libraries
14:31<moebius_>I never used the VCL from delphi, but it was quite pleasant to use from C++
14:31<moebius_>(at least compared to raw win32 and MFC)
14:32<moebius_>so I think the guys at Borland made a good decision reusing it
15:02<Wolf01> i think now is better, thank you for your support, i still have problems to find a way to assert if the colorcode is not an hex, but i think i'll find how to do it
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15:11<zangetsu2>Could someone explain to me the correct use of return_cmd_error?
15:11<zangetsu2>I've added a string to my language file, but when I try to return it I get an Assertion Error.
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15:13<@Belugas>did you added it to the english lang file too?
15:14<wleader>I put it in the english language file first.
15:14<wleader>Then I just used return_cmd_error(STR_MY_STRING_NAME);
15:14<wleader>Which seems to work just fine.
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15:15<wleader>because if I follow the code execution back to command.cpp ln 618, it works right up until it gets to the assert on line 623.
15:16<wleader>I think that the message is not the problem, but instead the problem is comparison between res and res2.
15:16<@Belugas>what was the assert?
15:16<@Belugas>ho.. 623
15:17<+glx>res == res2 assert means you did something wrong
15:18<+glx>as DC_EXEC result should be the same as ~DC_EXEC
15:18<wleader>I get that now.
15:19<wleader>Here is the trouble though. I am working on my town restructuring patch, and I can't test the town growth during ~DC_EXEC, but I do need to test that the growth occurred during DC_EXEC.
15:20<wleader>There is a test that is happening in DC_EXEC thats not happening in ~DC_EXEC.
15:21<+glx>that shouldn't happen else it will probably cause desync
15:21<wleader>So I need to find a way to check if the town can grow without actually growing the town.
15:22<wleader>Well that just made things a little more difficult.
15:22<wleader>ok, At least I understand what my problem is.
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15:24<Timwi>I think SVN is down
15:24<Timwi>It's not been responding for the last two hours
15:28<+glx>Timwi: kill it and retry
15:28<+glx>server has been restarted
15:28<+glx>1h ago :)
15:31<Timwi>Done that 10 times already :-p
15:34<+glx>works for me
15:34<Timwi>Yes, works for me now too
15:34<Timwi>Sorry, should have mentioned :)
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15:42<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: little style things
15:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the Color variables need a consistent naming style
15:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the code_length could use const
15:43<Eddi|zuHause3>and i would make the colorcode variable local to each switch block
15:43<Eddi|zuHause3>or don't use it at all
15:49<Wolf01>thank you for the suggestions
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15:51<@Belugas>th_gergo, do you have that bridge-grf that behaves wrong in ttdp and right in ottd?
15:51<@Belugas>wold require it for testing
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15:55<wleader>I've been thinking about my problem with testing if the town will grow, and I am thinking that there are two ways to do this: 1) rewrite GrowTown and other functions it uses to create two functions, one to grow the town, and one to test if the town can grow, or 2) modify the GrowTown function (and related) to accept a DC_EXEC flag. Given my experience I would think that option 2 would be easier, but uglier solution any thoughts?
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause3>i think the DC_EXEC version would be more consistent with the rest of the code
16:00<Eddi|zuHause3>you will probably run into problems with randomness
16:00<wleader>what do you mean by the randomness?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>there is a multiplayer synched random and a multiplayer unsynched random
16:01<Eddi|zuHause3>you need to use the first with DC_EXEC and the second with ~DC_EXEC
16:01<wleader>like the first go with ~DC_EXEC it might find a location to build, but the second go with DC_EXEC it might find a different (and possibly not ok to build) location?
16:02<Eddi|zuHause3>that might also happen
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16:04<Eddi|zuHause3>alternative would be to remember the result of the random decisions, and only consider that exact result in the DC_EXEC part
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16:08<wleader>I quick glance at the growtown code, there doesn't seem to be anything random really going on in there.
16:12<DeGhosty>there isn'y
16:12<DeGhosty>u need 9 station and a few truck / bus
16:12<DeGhosty>and even faster if u lay out the road
16:15<Eddi|zuHause3>DeGhosty: totally unrelated
16:15<@Bjarni>damn you Eddi|zuHause3
16:16<Eddi|zuHause3>i love you, too.
16:16<@Bjarni>do you realise how much time I spent watching Verstehen Sie Spaß after you talked nice about it?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause3>haha :p
16:17<Eddi|zuHause3>that was like a week ago :p
16:17<@Bjarni>I didn't stop watching
16:18<@Bjarni>I like that Kurti guy
16:18<wleader>Wow, GrowTownInTile is a mess.
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16:21<wleader>It almost makes me want to rework the town growth code...
16:21<wleader>might actually be easier.
16:21<wleader>of course i'd have to become a whole lot better at c++
16:21<@Bjarni>I will not stop you from trying
16:22<@Bjarni>worst case: you screw up and makes something that's worse than the current one, so it's rejected, but then you learned stuff while you tried, so it's in no way a waste
16:23<@Bjarni>practice makes perfect
16:23<@Bjarni>usually if the concept is good, the result tend to end up the same way
16:24<Eddi|zuHause3>the first prototype gets thrown away anyway
16:24<Eddi|zuHause3>it's to learn how not to do it
16:25<wleader>I guess the thing to do would be to break the code down into smaller tasks like FindEmptyTownTile, then use that to decide where to build. Then have another function like GetTownLayoutElement that determines what should be built there, road or house. Then uses these smaller functions to re-implement things like GrowTown and create CanTownGrow.
16:25<@Bjarni>sounds like what I told myself after I stopped working on one of the first patches
16:25<wleader>what patch was that?
16:26<@Bjarni>it didn't really work, so I hacked it to work. The code became more and more messy and it became even more buggy and then I thought "this is not the way to solve this issue. Let's start all over"
16:27<@Bjarni>in the end, I was never able to make it even remotely close to something useful, so it was never finished
16:28<Eddi|zuHause3>... so autoreplace was commited unfinished :p
16:28<@Bjarni>actually I didn't even think of autoreplace back then
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16:28<@Bjarni>I investigated how to activate railroad crossings earlier... none of my ideas worked
16:29<@Bjarni>by concept :/
16:29<@Bjarni>hence the reason why I didn't finished it
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16:29<wleader>I hate to admit it, but one of the things that gives me a hard time is bitmasks. They take me forever to figure out what they are doing, and when I do figure it out, I'm still confused. I usually code professionally in Delphi and VB, and neither makes frequent use of bitmasks. I'm just not yet trained to use them.
16:29<@Bjarni>it actually turned out to be a problem that's a whole lot harder to solve than I thought back then
16:29<Eddi|zuHause3>you mean like activate all crossings when a train passes on only one track?
16:30<Wolf01>and if a level crossing is like a signal, you can activate a signal at distance
16:30<Eddi|zuHause3>or activate in advance, while the train is few tiles away?
16:30<@Bjarni>activate the crossing when the train is like 3 tiles away
16:30<wleader>We're you trying to make road vehicles less likely to get hit by a train?
16:30<@Bjarni>never figured out what to do if the crossing activated and then the train turned in a switch and never reached the road
16:31<@Bjarni><wleader> We're you trying to make road vehicles less likely to get hit by a train? <-- actually eliminate the issue
16:31<@Bjarni>except in case of breakdowns
16:31<Eddi|zuHause3>might be solveable if we ever get a working PBS :p
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16:31<@Bjarni>I tried to do this while the newest stable release was 0.1.3 or 0.1.4
16:32<wleader>I'm sure the code was a lot different then.
16:32<@Bjarni>nobody had PBS back then
16:32<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think the crossing activation changed a lot since then
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16:32<Eddi|zuHause3>aside from removing direct map accesses and cleanup
16:33<@Bjarni>no, because all attempts failed, so none of them were committed
16:33<Wolf01> <- something like this
16:34<Eddi|zuHause3>Wolf01: bad idea
16:34<@Bjarni>that idea will not solve the issue. In fact it will make it worse
16:35<Eddi|zuHause3>with a newbie-track: station--track--station, the crossing will always be closed
16:37<Wolf01>and without signals on rail, so trains won't be affected, but all the 3 tiles in front of and beyond the crossing flagged as a sort of signal?
16:37<Wolf01>assigned automatically when the crossing is built
16:38<@Bjarni>what if there is a switch between the road and the activation tile?
16:38<Wolf01>when the train leave the 3 flagged tiles the crossing will be reset
16:39<@Bjarni>what if each branch crosses a road?
16:39<@Bjarni>will both crossing activate?
16:39<Wolf01>why not?
16:40<@Bjarni>it's wrong by design
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16:58<SmatZ>bridge, diagonal, semaphore, , tunnel with semaphores and less flickering -
17:01<exe>tunnel looks very fun
17:02<Ammler>SmatZ: is it possible to switch off "building mode" and see only the tunnel entry and a mountain?
17:02<SmatZ>yes, a bit deadlocked :)
17:02<SmatZ>Ammler: yes
17:03<Progman>Ammler: would be worse if you don't know where to build to
17:03<Progman>switch back, "aah there", switch in, build
17:04<Ammler>SmatZ: can you also go up in the mountain?
17:04<Progman>rct style ;)
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17:05<SmatZ>Ammler: things like pathfinder would handle it, but I cannot build that rail atm
17:06<@Bjarni>SmatZ: nice photoshop work
17:06<Ammler>^ something like this
17:06[~]Bjarni hides
17:06<Ammler>Bjarni: didn't you see the movie
17:06<Progman>but looks very promising
17:06<exe>to activate "building mode" you click something on the tunnel entrance?
17:06<exe>or how?
17:07<SmatZ>Ammler: will post video how to build situation in your image :)
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17:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11090 /trunk/projects/ (5 files): -Fix (r11089): incorrect version format and failure with paths containing spaces
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17:46[~]Smoovious touches the brim of his black hat™.
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17:47<+glx>evening Smoovious
17:47<Smoovious>just popping in while I'm still in Tulsa... will be leaving for Houston tomorrow night to meet up with my truck, and then will be with a trainer for the next few weeks
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17:50<Smoovious>welp, not much time... I poof
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18:01<Vikthor>erm wrong window, I mean good night
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18:05<@Bjarni>Dobrou to you too
18:06<@Bjarni>whatever language that might be
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18:58<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11091 /trunk/src/ (road.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Partial rewrite of the road management code of towns, in order to make it more readable and with improved performance. (FS#1161 by skidd13)
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 13 00:00:23 2007