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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-15

---Logopened Sat Sep 15 00:00:11 2007
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00:43<Wolf01>hello
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02:22<mcbane>morning
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04:05<Ammler>Webiste down?
04:05<Ammler>good morning btw
04:05<TinoM>i was going to ask the same ;)
04:06<Rubidium>if that's all ;)
04:08<Ammler>:)
04:08<Ammler>how else do I see, which revision is current nightly?
04:09<Rubidium>an estimated guess when you look at svn log?
04:10<Ammler>svn log and the time?
04:11<mcbane>ottd cia?
04:12<Ammler>http://nightly.openttd.org/linux-i686/ <-- still reachable
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04:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11112 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11107) [FS#1229]: in some cases one could destroy (parts of) buildings when building tunnels.
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04:52<TrueBrain>thgergo: "I have a question, will newgrf actions be supported in tar files someday?" <- I don't get it?
05:00<TrueBrain>Ammler: does your Nothing.grf still happen in latest?
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05:13<Wolf01>TrueBrain, i think he meant to make tar packages working like grfs, maybe for the 32bpp, so we can have 32bpp tarnewgrf (how sounds weird)
05:13<TrueBrain>that is a big no-no
05:13<TrueBrain>.tar is just a container format, for any data in DATE_DIR
05:13<TrueBrain>not related to anything specific
05:14<TrueBrain>DATE_DIR = DATA_DIR
05:14<Wolf01>but if you can replace the sprite of a newgrf, you can always make a grf with the data and dummy sprites and the folder (called like the grf) with the 32bpp in the tar and it should work
05:15<Ammler>TrueBrain: YES
05:15<TrueBrain>Ammler: no need for capitals
05:15<Ammler>:)
05:15<Ammler>sry, caps lock was in
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05:16<Wolf01>hello Belugas
05:17<Ammler>but TrueBrain, I only tested it with current nightly, do you mean later?
05:17<TrueBrain>Ammler: no, currently nightly is fine
05:18<Ammler>and Its not only with nightly, there are much other GRFs where has this problem, I made nothing.grf to exclude other things...
05:19<Ammler>!s/nightly/nothing.grf/
05:19<TrueBrain>Ammler: I know nothing about NewGRF, but why I asked is because there was a small glitch in loading stuff of NewGRF with close related names
05:20<Ammler>ok, I say the same problem with dutchcat and canstat
05:21<Ammler>oh man, I can't write, have to go, cu
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06:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11113 /branches/0.5/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [0.5] -Prepare 0.5 branch for release of 0.5.3.
06:18<Wolf01>:O
06:18<Wolf01>stable?
06:19<Rubidium>well, I hope... I gave people a week to test the latest backports and nobody found (*or* care to look for) any bugs
06:19<Rubidium>new bugs that is
06:23<Noldo>Rubidium: I have a problem with the overfow safe int template
06:23<Noldo>there are lines in the code that do something like int64 * Money
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06:24<_minime_>hi
06:24|-|KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@dev.xythos.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:25<_minime_>i have a quick question regarding an issue with OTTD's handling of callback 16 (articulated vehicles)
06:25<Rubidium>Noldo: can't you add an overloaded * operator to int64?
06:25<_minime_>in articulated_vehicles.cpp, you have two loops, that seem to limit the callback to at most 10 iterations
06:25<Noldo>and I can do Money operator*(int64,Money), but I can't do it in a general way with the template
06:25<_minime_>that's quite a low number, and for example in the CSDSet it causes problems
06:26<_minime_>it doesn't seem like raising the limit to say 32 (which should be more than enough) shouldn't cause any issues
06:26<Rubidium>a vehicle with more than 10 articulated parts?
06:26<_minime_>yes
06:26<_minime_>like TGV for example
06:26<Noldo>because T operator*(int64,T) matches almost everything and causes ambiguity
06:26<Rubidium>ICE is done using livery overrides
06:26<_minime_>we use double cars, to have them longer than 32 px
06:27<_minime_>or whatever the upper limit is on that
06:27<_minime_>either way, the only time that the loop would run all the iterations is if the vehicle enables the callback and doesn't return 0xFF when it's done
06:27<_minime_>which shouldn't happen too often
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06:28<_minime_>so there really is no reason to limit it like it is right now (in ttdp there is no such low limit)
06:28<Rubidium>the upper limit is there because we first allocate all vehicles and when that succeeds we start thinking about actually building the thing
06:28<Noldo>and I don't know if I can somehow include related functions to the template so that they would be instantiated only if the template is
06:29<Rubidium>Noldo: neither do I (me no template guru)
06:29<_minime_>so there's more code somewhere else that depends on those two hardcoded constants?
06:29<Rubidium>not really
06:30<Rubidium>but that is the reason why there is a hardcoded constant
06:31<_minime_>what could potentially break if it's increased? i'm concerned about this, since it prevents the set from working correctly in ottd, which is a pity
06:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11114 /tags/0.5.3/ (. Makefile network.c openttd.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj): -Release 0.5.3
06:32<_minime_>i suppose if 32 is too much for an upper limit, 16 would do, but the 10 is not enough (CD 680 has 7 two-piece carriages, and is only available as a trainset)
06:32<Rubidium>_minime_: a lot could break (could as in: it could be that 3 planes crash into eachother mid-air in real life)
06:33<Rubidium>well, what's the limit in TTDP. Think that is a "better" limit to change to than just another arbitrary number
06:33<_minime_>i'll see what I can dig up
06:35<_minime_>although it could as well be that it relies on the code to be correct and return the end value when it should
06:37<Rubidium>in that case you would end up with half trains when you've exhausted the vehicle slots
06:42<SmatZ>Rubidium: there are some bugs in 0.5 branch
06:43<Rubidium>I said *new* bugs (i.e. introduced after 0.5.2)
06:44<SmatZ>Rubidium: sorry, I didn't read anything... I just came from lunch
06:45<Rubidium>anyhow, delaying the release by weeks each time somebody finds a "small" bug isn't really the way to go
06:45<Rubidium>and I presume you're talking about the depot flooding issue?
06:45<SmatZ>yes...
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06:45<SmatZ>I think this is not a small bug
06:46<SmatZ>also, building while pause in multiplayer, that is not even at FS... but that is not so problematic
06:46<Rubidium>well, remote exploit vs. trains don't get destroyed at the same time in a depot
06:47<SmatZ>acutally, I am not sure if using trains with flooded vehicles won't cause asserts at some places in the code
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06:48<SmatZ>I didn't look into the code, I am preparing for exams, later I will have time :)
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07:01<_minime_>Rubidium: from what I can see in the code that deals with for example buing vehicles, it stops only once the callback returns 0xFF or fails
07:02<Rubidium>_minime_: what happens if you build a vehicle of infinite length?
07:03<_minime_>i would say that patch crumbles
07:03<_minime_>i'll experiment with it a little and see if I can get some info from one of the patchdevs
07:03<_minime_>and let you know
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07:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11115 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Merge: release changes from 0.5.
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08:19<_minime_>Rubidium: it is as I suspected
08:19<_minime_>I've succesfuly built a trainset consisting of 32 pieces
08:19<_minime_>however, when I don't end the callback correctly
08:20<_minime_>bad things happen
08:21<_minime_>(that's in ttdpatch)
08:34<Sacro>i want my Sparc :(
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08:55<elmex>uhm
08:57<elmex>does anyone else experience connection problems with http://www.openttd.org/?
08:57<+glx>oh no it's down again
09:01<+glx>looks like a dns problem
09:03<SmatZ>why do you think it look like a DNS problem?
09:03<+glx>because http://81.171.98.110 partially works
09:04<+glx>ie images and links are broken because they use www.openttd.org
09:05<SmatZ>interesting
09:05<SmatZ>81.171.98.111 is translated www.openttd.org for me
09:05<SmatZ>also git.openttd.org
09:05<Tefad>what the.. who uses absolute links on the originating site
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09:08<+glx><SmatZ> 81.171.98.111 is translated www.openttd.org for me <-- same for me
09:09<Niki->the page is down?
09:09<Niki->i just wanted to update my server to a new version =/
09:10<+glx>Niki-: release is not completed yet
09:10<Niki->yeah i know
09:10<Niki->ill probaply take 0.5.2
09:11<Niki->belugas is still working on newindustries, eh? :P
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09:11<+glx>0.5.3 should be available in svn, but svn is not reachable for now
09:12<Niki->0.5.3 stable?
09:12<Niki->:()
09:12<Niki->i guess newindustries is the most important change in 0.6?
09:12<Niki->thats why it takes so long probaply.
09:12<SmatZ>new*
09:12<+glx>in 0.6 will be trams, more newgrf support, 32bpp, ...
09:13<svip>:O It will be like heaven.
09:13<svip>O_O BUT WITH TRAINS
09:13<SmatZ>also vehicle groups, bridges over "everything", now the autoslope...
09:13<svip>I'm afraid to tell you that there will be no trains in heaven when you die.
09:13<SmatZ>I think everything except newindustries is almost done
09:13<SmatZ>and in trunk
09:13<svip>;o
09:14<Niki->yeah
09:14<svip>I should work more on my zoning patch.
09:14<Niki->i tried the nightly
09:14<+glx>a lot of newindustries stuff is already in trunk
09:14<Niki->thats the reason id love to see 0.6 alpha
09:14<Niki->ah
09:14<SmatZ>:)
09:14<Niki->how much of the needed code?
09:15<+glx>not enough :)
09:15<Niki->haha
09:15<Niki->:)
09:16<Niki->i guess newindustries is loads of stuff to do
09:16<Niki->i mean it changes many aspects of the game
09:16<SmatZ>yes
09:16<SmatZ>it changes a lot
09:16<Niki->will it be left out in 0.6 if it takes much longer time?
09:16<Niki->or will 0.6 just have to wait :)
09:17<DeGhosty>custum industry?
09:17<+glx>well if we release 0.6 without newindustries we will probably get a lot of complains ;)
09:18<Niki->well
09:18<elmex>are there already GRFs that have new industries?
09:18<Niki->i think that the list of changes is already giant
09:18<Niki->and 0.6 can live without i
09:18<Niki->:)
09:19<+glx>elmex: yes, ECS, UKRSI and probably some more
09:19<elmex>oh, cool
09:20<+glx>newindustries are in ttdpatch for a long time now
09:20<elmex>yea, i never tried ttdpatch
09:23<Niki->is ttdpatch still in development btw?
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09:25<+glx>yes
09:25<Niki->hmm
09:25<Niki->are the ottd hosts still open?
09:26<Niki->would be cool to update my remote rootservers ottd :)
09:26<+glx>servers.openttd.org?
09:26<Niki->no, hosts for the tarballs
09:26<+glx>sf.net
09:27<Niki->under which name? ttd shown nothing
09:27<+glx>http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103924&package_id=111717&release_id=512037
09:27<Niki->except a 3d ttd without any files or progress
09:27<Niki->ah
09:27<Niki->thanks
09:27<Niki->wierd search engine
09:27<+glx>the project is called openttd :)
09:29<ln->Niki-: wierd -> weird
09:30<Niki->thanks
09:30<Niki->my english is a bit rusty since iam out of school
09:30<Niki->ill have to improve it again in college, when i need to read english publications
09:31<+glx>Niki-: check your ' key, it seems broken ;)
09:32<Niki->'''
09:32<Niki->iam leaving that kind of signs out when iam talking online :)
09:33<Niki->okay
09:33<ln->noneedtousespaceseither
09:33<Niki->i guess ill have to fetch some food for the next few days
09:33<Niki->lol
09:33<Niki->it still has to be readable, i guess
09:33<+glx>but ill != i'll
09:34<+glx>it indeed should be I'll ;)
09:34<ln->ill = krank
09:36<Niki->*gg*
09:36<Niki->yes I will try to improve :)
09:36<Niki->see you soon, keep up the good work
09:37<Niki->ill have to learn c or c++ for university anyways, maybe i can help the game when I have learned it
09:37<Niki->be good!
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09:42<@peter1138>"anyways" :(
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09:46<Noldo>templates make ugly code :/
09:46<_minime_>Rubidium: ok, i've found the preallocations you mentioned, wrote a patch and put it on flyspray - http://bugs.optenttd.org/task/1231
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09:49<@peter1138>Noldo: now add macros
09:51<@peter1138>_minime_, looks good to me
09:51<_minime_>thanks
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09:55<Noldo>peter1138: :)
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10:13<Chris82>hey guys :)
10:13<Chris82>what happened to the website?
10:14<skidd13>Hmmmm, downtime again?!
10:15<Chris82>obviously the mainsite and the forums are not reachable for a few hours already
10:15<Chris82>first I thought quick server reboot, but no server takes this long to reboot ;)
10:15<skidd13>For me it works ATM.
10:15<Chris82>I hope it's no hardware failure
10:16<Chris82>lol yeah just started to work again :D
10:16<Chris82>2 minutes ago it was still down
10:16<TrueBrain>the forums haven;t been down in ages
10:16<Chris82>hmmm they didn't work for me the last 2 1/2 hours
10:16<Chris82>DNS problem maybe?
10:16<TrueBrain>tt-forums.net?!
10:16<Chris82>forums.openttd.org
10:17<Chris82>and www.openttd.org both didn't work
10:17<Chris82>-s
10:17<TrueBrain>possible the DNS of openttd.org didn't reply correctly, but that even is doubtful...
10:17<TrueBrain>3 NS servers in 3 countries take care of that
10:17<TrueBrain>the http of openttd.org was offline, an upgrade failed for unknown reasons
10:17<Chris82>hmmm weird then, but I also doubt it was my connection because all other websites worked
10:17<Chris82>ah ic
10:17<TrueBrain>anyway, should work now
10:17<+glx>Chris82: forum.openttd.org is a redirection
10:17<Chris82>yep thx :)
10:18<Chris82>glx: ic I am used to enter that URI so I always use it :)
10:18<TrueBrain>so you make the 20 hits on that url ;)
10:19<Chris82>lol obivously :p
10:21<Chris82>can I open a .htm file with a button inside OpenTTD ?
10:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11116 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix (r11106): tar loader was not compiled for WIN32
10:21<TrueBrain>I failed to parse that sentence
10:22<Eddi|zuHause2>Chris82: probably not without a lot of portability issues
10:22<Chris82>hmmm I thought .htm works on pretty much any system
10:23<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but calling the broweser is different everywhere
10:23<Chris82>but you don't need to call a browser?
10:23<Chris82>you can simply open the .htm and the system should know which application to use to open it
10:23<Eddi|zuHause2>what else would you call?
10:24<Chris82>well just something like FileIO Open ChrisIN-Manual.htm
10:24<mcbane>ottd.org is up
10:24<mcbane>err openttd.org
10:25<Chris82>or is there an easy way to implement a manual inside the game?
10:25<Chris82>that would be preferable of course
10:26<skidd13>Chris82: What do you want to do exactly? A browser inside OpenTTD or what?
10:26<TrueBrain>Chris82: .htm won't work unless you make a htm parser
10:26<TrueBrain>showing txt on the other hand should be simple
10:26<Chris82>skidd13: I want to make a manual for ChrisIN which can be opened from inside OpenTTD
10:26<Eddi|zuHause2>Chris82: ok, you need to call the "figure out what to call" function, which is still different everywhere
10:28<Chris82>maybe a window like "About OpenTTD" is sufficient
10:28<Chris82>I would just need to make non-scrolling text and add a scrollbar
10:29<Chris82>and then add a link under the question mark "Manual"
10:35<Chris82>hmmm forum.openttd.org has really only 20 hits?
10:35<Chris82>the FORUMS link on openttd.org uses that URI
10:35<TrueBrain>Chris82: 530 hits a month
10:36<TrueBrain>euh, a day
10:36<TrueBrain>8000 a month
10:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11117 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Add: add support for 7z .tar files, which are in the 'old' (deprecated) format
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10:59<Noldo>why on earth didn't I notice those semi-colons before
11:00<Noldo>Rubidium: looks like I solved it
11:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truelight * r11118 /trunk/src/sound.cpp: -Fix: sample.cat can now be in a tar-file too, how nice!
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11:25<Noldo>Rubidium: do you want << to have overflow protection?
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11:34<esco>hi
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13:34<Sacro>http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/SteelIXB/158/Image1.png *drools all over his keyboard*
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15:02<@Bjarni>!logs
15:02<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
15:02<@Bjarni>why are you guys idling?
15:03<Rubidium>cause they're waiting till you finished the release ;)
15:03<@Bjarni>huh
15:03<@Bjarni>what release?
15:03<Rubidium>OSX 11
15:04<@Bjarni>oh
15:04<@Bjarni>well
15:04<@Bjarni>it will done in 2 to 3 weeks
15:04<@Bjarni>or maybe when duke nudem forever is done
15:05<Rubidium>most of the 0.5.3 binaries are waiting for OSX binaries
15:05<@Bjarni>you released 0.5.3?
15:06<@Bjarni>no
15:06<@Bjarni>doesn't look like it
15:07<Rubidium>well, I did, it's only on hold for OSX binaries
15:08<@Bjarni>you know.... I might react faster if something happened... something like somebody told me this ;)
15:08<blathijs>hey, how about debian binaries then?
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15:09<Phazorx>got a question about height maps
15:10<Phazorx>does the engine detects min/max brightness and then spans N levels across or black and whie are min/max ?
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15:10<+glx>Phazorx: try it :)
15:11<Phazorx>i did
15:11<Eddi|zuHause2>i assume the latter...
15:11<Phazorx>it kinda inconlusive
15:11<Phazorx>i see different results ih i half the brightness
15:11<Phazorx>but not what i expected
15:11<+glx>if it's an 8bpp image, it uses palette order
15:11<Phazorx>perhaps max is set to like 128/256 ?
15:12<Phazorx>it is 8bpp grayscale png
15:12<@Bjarni><Phazorx> it kinda inconlusive <-- then you tested it with the wrong image :P
15:12<Phazorx>perhaps
15:12<Phazorx>that's why i came here with the question
15:12<+glx>so it has a palette and uses the palette order
15:12<Phazorx>can i expect more enlightment than just " try it till you get what you want" ?
15:13<Eddi|zuHause2>what is unclear about "palette order"?
15:13<Phazorx>say palette has 60 shades of gray
15:13<Phazorx>with max being 40% gray
15:13<Phazorx>will that be set as height max or as height 40% of max ?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>1st colour, 2nd colour, 3rd colour...
15:14<Eddi|zuHause2>no matter what shade of grey they have
15:14<Phazorx>it doesnt act like that i can see it mapping shades into more orders than that
15:14<Phazorx>and it doesnt cap out on 15th color
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15:21<Rubidium>*when* your heightmap has a palette with 16 entries it uses those as heightlevels, in all other cases the image is converted to grayscale and then the gray value is divide by 16 and floored
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15:40<Wolf01>'night
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15:50|-|[Bjarni] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices
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16:43<TrueBrain>General Notice: trac is down for a moment; might or might not be back any time soon
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16:47<Phazorx>thanks Rubidium
16:49<ln->bjarni: question, in case you happen to know: when an app crashes, the "application blablabla quit unexpectedly" dialog will appear. can this dialog be disabled for a certain application, and/or can it be made to restart the app automatically, without asking anything?
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16:56<Phazorx>can a play be kicjed by number from console?
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16:57<+glx>yes
16:57<Phazorx>Client #507 name: 'thgergo' status: 'loading map' frame-lag: 14651 company: 1
16:57<Phazorx>notice the framelag
16:57<Phazorx>is that kick 507 then ?
16:58<+glx>hey he is here, so maybe ask him why he has a big lag
16:58<Phazorx>weee
16:58<Phazorx>reconnect plz
16:58<Phazorx>oops mt
16:58<Phazorx>i am talking to him in other chan
16:58<Phazorx>he is quite aware of situation
16:58<Phazorx>but he lost connection
16:58<Phazorx>and server got stuck somehow
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17:31<Greyscale>OTTD requires cliff geographhy
17:31<Greyscale>like, not a totally smooth edge
17:31<Greyscale>like, cliffy bits
17:44<Phazorx>ottd situated in world with no moon
17:44<Phazorx>hence no tides, no cliffs
17:46<DeGhosty>lol
17:48<TrueBrain>amazing how much more clear your movies get when you have a 720p TV and movie :)
17:48<TrueBrain>lalala
17:50<Phazorx>try projector TrueBrain
17:50<TrueBrain>why?
17:51<Phazorx>same clarity adjustable size and probably cheaper?
17:51<TrueBrain>why?
17:51<Phazorx>just happen to be that these are perks of that technology?
17:52<TrueBrain>why?
17:52<TrueBrain>(am I annoying already?:))
17:52<Phazorx>see above
17:52<DeGhosty>projectors are nto clearer
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17:52<Phazorx>DeGhosty: pne day when you get older and wiser i'll show you my setup :)
17:53<TrueBrain>okay, please stop comparing eachothers penis...
17:53<Phazorx>heh
17:54<Phazorx>rally tho, i kinda rejected idea of fixed tv of any kind few years ago
17:54<Phazorx>and vent totaly with projectors for movies
17:54<Phazorx>*went
17:54<TrueBrain>I love TVs more :)
17:54<TrueBrain>and I love my HR TV even more :)
17:54<TrueBrain>but then again, I don't have room for any projector :p
17:55<Phazorx>my 1st one was situated in 5x3 meters room, throwing 120" image across short side
17:55<TrueBrain>now that's ugly! :)
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18:44<TrueBrain>darn, look at the time!
18:44<TrueBrain>night all
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21:27<Sacro>Rubidium: therefore :p
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22:36<syn>ok I got a question i edited my config file for my dedicated openttd so that i have no vehicle breakdowns but i still have reduced and it changed the config on me how do i fix this
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 16 00:00:49 2007