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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-18

---Logopened Tue Sep 18 00:00:26 2007
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11:52<Wickedgenius>Hey does anyone know wherei can goto learn how to make new industries ready for thepatch when it comes out
11:53<Wickedgenius>thank you
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12:50<mcbane>hi nite
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12:53<@Bjarni>mcbane: in case you are confused: my name is Bjarni, not nite ;)
12:53<mcbane>hmm the song watermelon man fits totaly into ottd.
12:54<mcbane>he joind a sec before yer.
12:54<@Bjarni>I didn't notice
12:54<mcbane>you couldnt.
12:54<Rubidium>mcbane: he could've noticed
12:55<@Bjarni>for all you know, I could know everything
12:55<mcbane>hes not very talkactive.
12:55<@Bjarni>who is "he"?
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12:56<Rubidium>I meant mister Corfitzen
13:02<@Belugas>DaleStan: I was wondering what you call "standard" vs "calculated" call back resulst. Seems a bit esoterical to me
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13:13<mcbane>ups wrong
13:13<Ammler>glx: your patch seems to have fixed my server, no assert since then.
13:14<Nite>im also in other channel
13:15<Nite>and i do know very few bout programming
13:16<_minime_>[19:51] <mcbane> hmm the song watermelon man fits totaly into ottd -- Man, that's so true, I thought the same thing when I first heard it
13:17<mcbane>but ya cant use it for ottd since its protected by owner/writer.
13:17<_minime_>oh i know
13:18<_minime_>although nobody can prevent you from putting it into your own copy of ottd ;)
13:20<@Bjarni>what is it with that watermelon man?
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13:34<+glx>Ammler: it should just print extra thing when it asserts, so I don't call that a fix
13:35<Ammler>:), I know
13:35<+glx>but of course when you add debug stuff it doesn't fail ;)
13:35<Ammler>I just wondered, thats not happen now
13:36<Rubidium>let me guess, you're running gentoo or so?
13:36<Rubidium>or are trying to make OTTD with Gentoo-ish settings
13:36<Rubidium>yes, you
13:36<Rubidium>or at least the computer where you compiled it on
13:37<Rubidium>might be compiled with -O3
13:37<Ammler>hmm, don't use any attributes
13:37<Eddi|zuHause3>what is wrong with -O3?
13:38<Ammler>Rubidium: do you know, what Problem I had?
13:38<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause3: people have had problems with -O3 compiled binaries when they would not have them when compiled with -O2
13:38<Ammler>(assert at src/network/core/packets.cpp around 279, if I remember right
13:39<Rubidium>Ammler: some assertion triggering that is only triggered when somebody messed up the protocol
13:40<Ammler>strange was the problem happens with and without clients connected
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13:41<Ammler>and I did not patch with clients patch or something like that :)
13:41<+glx> <-- this is the patch applied
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13:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11126 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix: the algorithm to determine the closest water/land was flawed.
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15:29<Eddi|zuHause3>don't destroy my imaginations!
15:30<ln->what to do on a late sunday night in germany?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause3>how should i know?
15:31<ln->i didn't ask you specifically.
15:31<@Bjarni>how should I know?
15:31<ln->because you're an op.
15:32<@Bjarni>good point
15:32<@Bjarni>you can lock yourself in a room and jerk off
15:32<@Bjarni>you can also do it on the street, but I wouldn't recommend that
15:33<@Bjarni><Eddi|zuHause3> don't destroy my imaginations! <-- is there anything to destroy?
15:33<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, certainly... i just am not sure exactly what...
15:34<Eddi|zuHause3>was that even english?
15:34<Rubidium>as Eddi|zuHause3 seems to be German(-ish) and he doesn't know what to do on sunday nights in Germany, he isn't in Germany on sunday nights, so I guess that's the best to do on synday nights, i.e. not being in Germany.
15:34<@Bjarni>that goes for all other times as well though
15:36<Eddi|zuHause3>well, i learned that sunday was the day where you stay at home and spend time with your family
15:37<Eddi|zuHause3>since your home is not in germany, i would not know what you would want there then...
15:37<Eddi|zuHause3>saturday is the day where you go out and do ... stuff ...
15:37<@Bjarni>so what do you do in Germany on a Saturday?
15:37<ln->it is within possible limits to be in the netherlands on sunday evening, too.
15:38<ln->but not next sunday, no.
15:38<@Bjarni>I did the same thing the whole weekend, both Saturday and Sunday
15:40<@Bjarni>would that make me a bad German?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't know, but being danish would make you a bad german, though :p
15:40<@Bjarni>mission successful
15:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11127 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h newgrf_spritegroup.cpp): -Fix: truncate the result of 8 bits callbacks.
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15:50<Wolf01> yeah
15:52<@Bjarni>looks like we better make those for the brickland graphics :)
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15:58<Wolf01> :o brickland
16:01<@Bjarni>either it's somebody with a whole lot of lego or it's faked
16:01<@Bjarni>I hope for the first, but I think the latter is the truth
16:01<mcbane>the ground are small plates of lego with matchboxes below.
16:02<mcbane>or so
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16:02<mcbane>or something hollow.
16:02<@Bjarni>it's a lot of lego
16:04<Wolf01>you don't know how much pieces somebody have until you see his creations on brickshelf
16:05<Wolf01>like this:
16:05<Wolf01>(the curve surface is a wall of 2x1 bricks)
16:07<@Bjarni>ok, this one beats my steam ship by size
16:08<@Bjarni>but my steamship could float and it had working paddlewheels... I want to see this model fly :P
16:08<@Bjarni>btw a lego ship with homemade paddlewheels can gain surprisingly high speed
16:09<_Ben_>That blacktron ship is really nice...! I wanted to make things like that but it seemed inposible to buy the specilized peices
16:12<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i had lego "shipscrews" in one of the technic sets
16:13<Eddi|zuHause3>only, being technic, the ship had lots of holes, so i don't believe it could actually swim :p
16:14<@Bjarni>I didn't have and propellers so I had to go with paddlewheels
16:14<@Bjarni>turned out that 5 blade paddlewheels worked the best compared to weight (it was kind of big and heavy)
16:20<Wolf01> <- do you think this can float?
16:21<@Bjarni>maybe, but I guess it will be unstable
16:21<Eddi|zuHause3>it's plastic, it will most probably swim anyway... besides lego has lots of holes where air can be stored
16:21<@Bjarni>it will likely need something heavy in the lowest deck
16:22<@Bjarni>to prevent it from turning upside down
16:22<_Ben_>the ships used to come with weights to stick in the deck for that reason
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16:22<@Bjarni>I placed batteries and engines in the lowest part of my ship for that reason
16:23<Eddi|zuHause3>just make sure it is actually waterproof :p
16:23<Wolf01>uhm, and what about the giant lego man found on a beach somewhere in Netherlands?
16:23<@Bjarni>well, not lowest, but almost. I added a single block to prevent accidents with leaks and the batteries
16:24<@Bjarni>turned out that the paddlewheels could send in more water than the ship itself leaked, so I had to put up some sort of shield to keep the water out
16:24<mcbane>i can imagen that
16:25<@Bjarni>and then the ship was out of balance so I had to add those lead blocks in the other end to even it out
16:25<mcbane>i dont have any lego left .=/ all given away to my younger grand cousins.
16:25<@Bjarni>I'm not going to give mine away... I need it
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16:27<@Bjarni>I just had an idea.... try to make the inner part of the ship air tight and then add a pump to add air all the time. If it works as intended, then the pressure will raise a bit. If the pressure is high enough, then the water will be kept out even if there are leaks
16:27<@Bjarni>but then the pump needs to be somewhat powerful
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16:28<Wolf01>then you'll see bubbles everywhere
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16:31<@Bjarni>that would mean that you gained too high pressure
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16:31<@Bjarni>bubbles wouldn't mean much if the ship is moving anyway
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16:32<@Bjarni>bubbles would actually lower the friction to the water a little, making the ship sail faster (even though I think the speed boost would be way too low to notice)
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16:33<@Bjarni>I saw a guy on TV, who had invented some air pocket under ships and container ships would reduce fuel usage by 10% if they used it and didn't change speed
16:34<@Bjarni>in fact they would save more, but then you have to include the fuel usage for keeping a compressor working and you end up with 10%
16:34<Vikthor>Bjarni: Not neccesarily, the bubles could disturb the laminar flow of water and make it turbulent
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16:35<@Bjarni>laminar flow of water.... next to a hull made out of lego?
16:36<Vikthor>Oh, you are talking about lego. (note to self, read more than last few lines before replying)
16:36<@Bjarni>the bubbles would start by sticking to the outside of the hull, making a cushion between the water and the hull... no direct contact results in less friction
16:37<@Bjarni> <-- it would be a hull not unlike this one
16:37<DaleStan>Belugas: Calculated callback results are ones calculated and returned by variational 2 where nvar is 0. "Standard" callback results are everything else. (Explicit (8000 | <value>) or (FF00 | <value>) in standard 2s, random 2s, and variational 2s where nvar != 0)
16:38<@Bjarni>a real hull wouldn't leak so they produce bubbles like that
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause3>you made Hull out of lego? :p
16:39<@Bjarni>I tried
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16:40<@Bjarni>I didn't have enough dirty and broken blocks though
16:40<_Ben_>just use grey blocks, and nothing else
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16:41<@Bjarni>but... I don't have any pregnant teenage lego people :s
16:41<@Bjarni>so it wouldn't be Hull
16:42<Eddi|zuHause3>if it's all grey, call it <random east german town before 1990>
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16:43<@Bjarni>I don't think Salle was gray in yeah 1400
16:43<Eddi|zuHause3>the name is Halle (Saale)
16:43<@Bjarni>*all gray
16:43<Eddi|zuHause3>and i have no idea how it looked in 1400
16:43<@Bjarni>dammit... I knew I had it wrong, but I didn't bother to look it up :P
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17:09<Phazorx>ia there some stat that is related to amount of road construction per company?
17:10<Phazorx>or amount of tiles owned by player?
17:10<Phazorx>and property maintainace apprently is based on number of stations (not station tiles) ?
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17:57<Amix>just wondering
17:57<Amix>trying to build one way roads
17:57<Amix>but i dont know whats the shortcut for it on powerbook 12 is
17:57<Amix>any ideas?
17:58<+glx>ctrl-click or command-click
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17:58<+glx>the key with an apple I think
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18:01<Amix>dosent work glx
18:02<+glx>what is your version of openttd?
18:02<+glx>ha ok, it's only in the nightlies
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18:11<Amix>cant get the nightly build to work
18:12<+glx>what doesn't work?
18:12<Amix>the screen blinks
18:12<Amix>and it goes back to osx
18:14<+glx>never used a mac so I can't help
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18:20<Amix>cant get nightly to work
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19:38<Iasjida>hey, in openttd is possible to make trains climb montais fast, like in ttdpatch? =[
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19:41<DaleStan>Iasjida: Not really. Toggling the "realistic acceleration" setting may improve things, but if so, it'll probably make other things worse. Open gives you just on/off, not the 65536 options you get from Patch's mountains and curves switches.
19:41<Iasjida>ok, thx
19:42<@Belugas>thnaks DaleStan. yet another piece to the puzzle
19:53<Iasjida>Autoslope: OpenTTD status: Not done
19:53<+glx>done in nightlies Iasjida
19:54<Iasjida>so, i´ll try now
19:54<+glx>don't trust the wiki about done and not done stuff (not updated frequently)
19:54<Maedhros>we should really work on that
19:55<Maedhros>documentation isn't our strong point :/
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19:59<Iasjida>autoslope \o/
20:00<Iasjida>airplanes are really fast now :s
20:00<@Belugas>documentation? what's that? hoo.... a feature we might have to copy from ttdpacth :)
20:00<@Belugas>as they do it far better than us!
20:01<Maedhros>'tis true, tis true
20:03<_minime_>it would be really nice especially regarding the completeness of newgrf support
20:03<_minime_>right now coding for ottd is often aking to shooting at a blurry fast-moving target ;)
20:04<+glx>there's a tool to check if a grf can work in openttd (but it's not very up to date too)
20:04<Maedhros>yeah. ottdcompat was supposed to help with that, but it itself hasn't been updated for a while
20:04<_minime_>well that's not very useful then, is it?
20:04<Maedhros>it works up to 9516 or so :p
20:05<+glx>it is mostly for 0.5.x I think
20:05<Maedhros>it was designed for trunk
20:05<+glx>I know ;)
20:05<_minime_>it would be interesting if such a tool could be part of the ottd source tree
20:05<Maedhros>i was planning on making it useful for stable releases, but never got round to it :)
20:05<_minime_>so that it would take it's data directly from the newgrf related code
20:05<Iasjida>with "realistic acceleration" on the trains climb fast, but slow down a lot in stations =/
20:06<Maedhros>_minime_: i'm not really sure that's possible
20:06<Maedhros>it should be part of openttd's svn at some point though
20:07<+glx>in 3rdparty like squirrel
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20:11<Iasjida>can i buy 100% of a player´s company?
20:12<_minime_>Maedhros: you could potentially specify means to annotate the newgrf-related sources with information about implemented features
20:12<+glx>Iasjida: yes
20:12<+glx>but the player should have a certain age
20:13<_minime_>then have the tool generated based on the current data - because unless someone make sure to keep it up to date, the same thin will happen with it as has now
20:13<Iasjida>k, thx
20:13<Maedhros>_minime_: hmm, good thinking
20:14<Maedhros>although we're back to the point about us being bad at documentation ;)
20:14<+glx>it's easier for us to write a tool ;)
20:14<_minime_>that's the point
20:14<_minime_>and you'll have all the info in the same spot
20:14<_minime_>rather than having to keep two separate apps up to date
20:15<Iasjida>write new tools, forget about documentation
20:16<Iasjida>or do the same ttdpatch tools and than copy and paste their docs
20:17<Maedhros>nah, linking to them is much less effort :p
20:18<Iasjida>damn, with the nightlies some of my old games crashs when i load them
20:19<Maedhros>openttd should be backwards compatible with everything from TTD onwards (at least in theory)
20:22<Iasjida>i´ve open a ttdpatch game with the openttd 0.5.3 stable. Worked(some signals problems but worked). Now with the r11125 the game crashes
20:23<Maedhros>ah, ttdpatch games might well break
20:23<+glx>oh loading ttdpatch games is not supported
20:23<+glx>you should be able to load most ttd games though
20:24<Iasjida>i read that, but with the stable version worked xD
20:24<Maedhros>that's more luck than judgement ;)
20:25<Iasjida>with autoslope working, the only thing openttd needs is auto-signals
20:26<Iasjida>(by now) xD
20:26<@Belugas>maybe you should use 0.5.x to convert your ttdp game, then open the converted with nightly?
20:26<Iasjida>convert? how?
20:27<Maedhros>just open it in 0.5.3 and save it
20:27<@Belugas>open ttdp with 0.5.x. save under 0.5.x
20:27<@Belugas>open with nightly
20:27<Iasjida>i already done this xD
20:28<Maedhros>that's definitely a bug then. anything saved with 0.5.x shouldn't crash the nightlies
20:28<+glx>what do you mean by auto-signals?
20:29<Iasjida>some problem with water_map.h and IS_INT_INSIDE
20:29<Maedhros>"some problem" isn't really enough information to help us fix anything :p
20:29<+glx>we need at least the full message :)
20:29<Iasjida>last time i tried, the signals not swtiched to pre-signals automactly
20:29<+glx>they won't
20:30<Maedhros>they never have, in fact
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20:31<Iasjida>water_map.h line 34
20:31<Iasjida>Expression: IS_INT_INSIDE(_m[t].m5, DEPOT_NORTH,DEPOT_END)
20:32<Phazorx>is there some stat that is related to amount of road construction per company?
20:32<Phazorx>or amount of tiles owned by player?
20:32<Phazorx>and property maintainace apprently is based on number of stations (not station tiles) ?
20:37<Iasjida>Change slope on non-empty tiles (Autoslope) now is WIP in the WIKI =D
20:37<Maedhros>nice one :)
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20:41<Iasjida>what the diference between Path Based Signaling and pre-signals? :S
20:50<Phazorx>PBS is a concept used for allowing multiple trains to pass through same signal block, pre-singlas are types of signals used in game
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 19 00:00:32 2007