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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-19

---Logopened Wed Sep 19 00:00:32 2007
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02:18<Wolf01>does c/c++ evaluate all the conditions in a if statement also if the first is not valid? like if (cond != null && cond == x)
02:20<Noldo>no if the && operator isn't overloaded
02:23<TrueBrain>rather: of course not! Simple example: if (p == NULL || *p == '\0') <- you want this to work ;)
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02:33<N101>hello all. i have one quick question. is there a patch which records how much track you have placed?
02:34<N101>when i say patch i mean addon
02:35<Noldo>not that I know of, but Celestar did some track maintenance code some time and it should have most of the stuff needed for that
02:35<N101>mm thank you
02:36<Wolf01>ok, i have a fix for the station length/tracks widget, but is not really optimised
02:40<esco>Do you know have anybody ever tried to build patch to make possible to use other companies railroads by player own trains...
02:40<Wolf01>yes, is called subsidiaries
02:40<Wolf01>but i really old
02:40<Wolf01>you can find it in the MiniIN
02:40<N101>is the MiniIN still developed?
02:41<esco>with which path finding system it works?
02:42<Wolf01>no, is a dead project, you might find it around
02:43<N101>thanks. is there any other project that is similar?
02:45<esco>maybe i will try to weak existing path finding systems...
02:45<Wolf01>similar projects appear like mushrooms, the current is the ChrisIN
02:46<Noldo>there has been some talk about reviving subsidiaries
02:47<esco>It would be nice to rent my rail network for other players...
02:49<esco>They would pay for using my network in day basis...
02:49<esco>and vice versa...
02:49<esco>anyway, I will go to eat now... have a nice day...
02:51<N101>i have dinner to make. thanks for the links Wolf
02:56<Wolf01>i should go to have breakfast instead.. if i can get up from the bed (bad back-ache)
03:00<Wolf01>TrueBrain, could you change the category of one bugfix? i wrongly selected newstation, but is a gui problem (related to newstations)
03:01<Wolf01>i can't understand why is not possible to edit owned posts on flyspray
03:01<TrueBrain>Wolf01: neither can I
03:02<TrueBrain>(understand why it is not possible that is)
03:02<TrueBrain>as requested, FS changed
03:02<Wolf01>thank you
03:03<TrueBrain>np :)
03:06<Phazorx>is there some stat that is related to amount of road construction per company?
03:06<Phazorx>or amount of tiles owned by player?
03:06<Phazorx>and property maintainace apprently is based on number of stations (not station tiles) ?
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03:11<N101>Phazorx did you test this? with the Property maintainace?
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03:12<Phazorx>to some extent
03:12<N101>i might test this now
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06:17<Amix>someone with osx here?
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06:42<AmiXwoktest>hello. installed latest nightly build
06:42<AmiXwoktest>i see it changes my roads and rail tracks
06:42<AmiXwoktest>but i cant build tramtracks etc
06:43<AmiXwoktest>is there a tramtrack.grf which is good?
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06:47<mikl>AmiXwoktest: No, they're all evil ;)
06:47<Wolf01>i think you need vehicles
06:47<Wolf01>ehm, trams
06:47<Wolf01>tracks only are useless
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06:57<AmiXwoktest>i understand, hehe
06:58<AmiXwoktest>but is there any recommended tramtracks and trains etc?
07:23<TrueBrain>@base 16 10 70
07:23<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 112
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08:17<Tefad>@base 9 10 1.1
08:17<@DorpsGek>Tefad: Error: Invalid <number> for base 9: 1.1
08:17<Tefad>aw. boo
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10:17<gfldex>can i change the style of the board somewhere?
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10:23<@Belugas>can you define your need a little more?
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10:26<De_Ghosty>hey glx
10:26<+glx>De_Ghosty: ?
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10:28<skidd13>I noticed that the new autoslope isn't availible in scenarion editor. Is that intended?
10:28<frosch123>It is only available to real players
10:28<frosch123>Should it be available in scenario editor?
10:28<frosch123>What is current_player there?
10:29<boekabart>if I recall correctly
10:29<skidd13>I'd use || mode == SCENARIO_EDITOR or something
10:29<SmatZ>or 255 :-p
10:29<skidd13>and check that the player is no town
10:30<boekabart>frosch123: you should be able to find plenty examples where the check is done: RealPlayer || SCEN_EDIT
10:30<boekabart>actually, maybe you can disallow it just for TOWN and WATER player.
10:30<boekabart>(and AI player??) ;)
10:31<frosch123>it is diabled for them
10:32<frosch123>(IsValidPlayer(current_player) && !_is_old_ai_player) <- that is the check
10:32<boekabart>OWNER_NONE should be added for scen_edit
10:34<skidd13>_game_mode == GM_EDITOR should be the check
10:34<boekabart>well - also in _game_mode EDITOR towns can grow
10:35<boekabart>and they should not use autoslope there either
10:35<skidd13>sure I meant additional to current_player == OWNER_NONE
10:35<boekabart>ok but once again - !istownplayer && !is_old_ai might not be such a bad idea
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10:37<boekabart>and !OWNER_water but water never builds roads and rails i guess :)
10:37<@Belugas>is autoslope available in scenario editor on ttdp?
10:37<boekabart>could add an assert that player should never be water there anyway
10:38<boekabart>Belugas: Don't know , but what if it's not?
10:38<frosch123>It is not that easy.
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10:38<frosch123>Terraforming in scenario imitates world generation
10:38<frosch123>I.e. it sets _generating_world = true, etc.
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10:39<frosch123>But autoslope must not be enabled during world generation
10:39<boekabart>frosch123: are you sure? why does it need to set _gen_w ?
10:40<frosch123>_generating_world = true; // used to create green terraformed land
10:41<@Belugas>the point i wanted to bring is that if ttdp does not provide it, we shold not either
10:42<skidd13>Flyspray dislike to add my files somehow. ?!?
10:42<boekabart>when raising/lowerign tile corners it does stay green, indeed... but when using leveling tool, it doesnt!
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10:43<@Belugas>further more, imho, it should help player, not scenario creator.
10:43<@Belugas>after all, the creator have all his time to do stuff, not the player
10:43<boekabart>frosch123: what would autoslope ever DO/change during world-gen?
10:43<boekabart>Belugas: you do have a point - but still, it's weird if it works in one place but not the other
10:43<frosch123>towns generation etc..
10:43<elmex>is something wrong with the website or svn?
10:43<elmex>is it maybe just me?
10:44<skidd13>It would be helpfull during the redesign of a random grown town.
10:45<De_Ghosty>how you compile a stand alone exe with cygwin
10:45<De_Ghosty>i don't wanna attach the cygwin lib with it
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10:46<DaleStan>De_Ghosty: -mno_cygwin. But I'm pretty sure that's default for Open's Cygwin builds.
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10:47<DaleStan>... Except that it's -mno-cygwin .
10:47<De_Ghosty>as a parameter?
10:48<@Belugas>boekabart, there are a few things that do not work the same between scenario and game mode ;)
10:48<boekabart>i know - found that out when playing with the sea level stuff
10:50<De_Ghosty>are you sure?
10:52<TrueBrain>elmex: the system gave a hickup, should be fine now again
10:52<+glx>Ammler: still no assert?
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10:52<elmex>TrueBrain: k
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10:59<@Belugas>[11:43] <skidd13> Flyspray dislike to add my files somehow. ?!? <--- You've posted way too many !! lol
11:01<skidd13>"way too many" too fast or too much?
11:01<boekabart>too many, make a new account. :)
11:01<@Belugas>just a joke, skidd13 ;)
11:01<@Belugas>the fs1161 has been populated quite a lot
11:02<@Belugas>but no, totally irrelevant
11:02<skidd13>boekabart: No way.
11:02<skidd13>Belugas: I like to keep the others up2date
11:02<frosch123>I guess, setting _current_player = 0 in CommonRaiseLowerBigLand(), and revert it afterward, will enabled autoslope in editor.
11:03<frosch123>But, does someone know a nicer way?
11:03<frosch123>I cannot find a way using GM_EDITOR.
11:05<skidd13>frosch123: where's the check: (IsValidPlayer(current_player) && !_is_old_ai_player)
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11:09<De_Ghosty>that didn't wokr
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11:12<De_Ghosty>sooo anyone know how to compile a standalone exe with cygwin that doesn't require and addon lib?
11:13<skidd13>frosh123: What about:
11:13<skidd13>(_patches.autoslope && !_is_old_ai_player && (IsValidPlayer(_current_player) || (_current_player == OWNER_NONE && _game_mode == GM_EDITOR)))
11:14<@Bjarni>De_Ghosty: you want to make a static build
11:15<@Bjarni>but I'm not sure that it will work on cygwin... you see, we only verified that it works on OSX and MorphOS and it's known not to work on at least some linux distributions
11:17<@Bjarni>I think there was an issue with libpng and cygwin... something about failing to link statically and crashing when linking dynamically... or something
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11:19<boekabart>yyeeey, deepwater is up-to-date again
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11:25<boekabart>had a bug (transparancy): GB(trans_opt, 1, 8) was done on a byte
11:27<Wolf01>i asked to make it uint, but nobody wanted to apply my patch
11:28<boekabart>well it is wrong only after adding transparant water option :)
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11:28<boekabart>GB/SB should become a template fn which asserts the parameters are 'useful'
11:29<Wolf01>i think you can leave the transparent loading indicators, which is made by patches now
11:29<Wolf01>and use it for water transparency
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11:29<boekabart>Wolf01: ??
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11:29<Wolf01>somebody added a widget for the loading indicators transparency
11:30<Wolf01>which i find very useless
11:30<boekabart>deepwater has the extra transp. option for water
11:30<boekabart>it just didn't toggle along with 'X'
11:30<Wolf01>yes but since the variable is limited to 8 bits, you need to make it larger
11:31<boekabart>it's not
11:31<Wolf01>or remove useless widgets
11:31<boekabart>the _transp_option one isn't, only the static one in the toggle fn
11:31<Wolf01>yes that
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11:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11128 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: a lot of graphical glitches by changing some bounding boxes. It's not perfect yet, but a *very* good step into the right direction. Patch by frosch.
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11:53<De_Ghosty>what's identifier?
11:53<De_Ghosty>int asdf; ?
11:56<Rubidium>both int and asdf are identifiers (if I read the specs correctly)
11:57<Rubidium>"name is a use of an identifier in a context that determines its meaning (e.g. class-name, typedef-name)." and "-4- A name is a use of an identifier ( that denotes an entity or label (stmt.goto, stmt.label)."
11:59<De_Ghosty>is 4 allowed in identifier?
12:00<Rubidium>Don't know, but will tell you
12:01<De_Ghosty>k thx
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12:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11129 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: update some TextID to StringID 'translations' to reflect changes in language files
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12:59<@Bjarni>my scanner app broke
12:59<@Bjarni>it crashes all the time
12:59<@Bjarni>I decided to download an update for it and the download contained an exe even though I asked for the mac version ....
12:59<@Bjarni>time to look for a new scanner tool
13:01<Rubidium>or another OS
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause2>"help, i downloaded this virus from a website, how do i get a compatible OS for it?"
13:08<Sacro>my house is leaking
13:08<@Bjarni>MAC Trial Version
13:08<@Bjarni>At this time due to the design of the MAC OS X operating system we are unable to design a trial version. The only way to make a trial version for OS X is to make it a self-destructive trial; this means that any data within the trial would be destroyed or wiped out when the trial time ended and that would mean any data stored in the program would be lost.
13:08<mcbane>is that made by microsoft? =P
13:08<mcbane>the logic would fit em.
13:09<@Bjarni>it's made by some company called newsoft inc
13:12<Rubidium>"This application will self-destructing in ..."
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>"if you take this mission, the secretary will deny any knowledge"
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13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11130 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1207]: towns build roads that weren't connected to any other road.
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13:21<Progman>Rubidium: does that also rejects town building roads even if there no road?
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13:24<@Bjarni>hmm.... looks like the scanner hardware guys decided not to use that scanner software anymore
13:24<@Bjarni>go figure :P
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13:31<dihedral>hello there :-)
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13:33<dihedral>@seen hylje
13:33<@DorpsGek>dihedral: hylje was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <hylje> people
13:33<dihedral>!seen hylje
13:33<_42_>dihedral, hylje is on #openttdcoop right now.
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13:36<@Bjarni>@seen CIA-16
13:36<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: I have not seen CIA-16.
13:37<@Bjarni>heh... looks like we only get the low end
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13:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11131 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r11126): forgot to commit the changes that performed the actual fix.
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13:55<dihedral>Rubidium: nice commit :-D
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13:59<Ammler>dihedral: _minime_ is the guy we are talking about
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14:00<dihedral>Ammler: you dont by any chance have an email address from that guy?
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14:01<Ammler>oh, no, but he is here and also in tt-forums
14:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11132 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: NewGRFs seem to assume that STR_NULL is an empty string or so.
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14:05<_minime_>Ammler: I hope you're only saying nice things about me ;)
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14:05<Ammler>sadly, I don't know other things about you
14:06<dihedral>_minime_: hello there
14:06<dihedral>you wanna check out ?
14:07<Ammler>I told him about your Banner Script
14:08<dihedral>hence i want you to look at it :-)
14:09<_minime_>oh, ok
14:10<_minime_>hmm, check this out -
14:10<_minime_>something's broken there
14:10<_minime_>i get a 404 in that dir
14:10<dihedral>yeah - trac... does not like empty folders
14:10<dihedral>look at
14:11<SpComb>mm, remotely triggered crashes of servers and/or clients
14:11<dihedral>not nice :-(
14:12<dihedral>what is that SpComb ?
14:12<_minime_>dihedral: looks like some nice work you've done there
14:12<+glx>it's in 0.5.3 thread on the forum
14:12<SpComb>some kind of suitable buffer overflow, or something more harmless?
14:12<SpComb>and on the front page
14:13<dihedral>_minime_: thanks
14:13<_minime_>mind you, i'm not too big on php - that banner was just a quick hack for a friend
14:13<_minime_>and i haven't really gone back to it since I write it
14:13<dihedral>i would love to make use of some snipets
14:14<Rubidium>SpComb: the NULL[0] and *NULL kind of remotely triggered crashes
14:14<dihedral>but hate grabbing code from elsewhere
14:14<Rubidium>and remote triggering of assertions
14:14<_minime_>dihedral: go for it
14:15<dihedral>shame - i was hoping you would like to have a go at it :-D
14:15[~]dihedral grins
14:15<_minime_>well, maybe at some point
14:15<_minime_>but i've got plenty to do at the moment
14:15<dihedral>i shall have a snoop around your source :-D
14:16<_minime_>lately i've been playing around with boost::spirit
14:16<_minime_>not to mention a ton of stuff to do for work
14:16<dihedral>i have never done php-imageing stuff
14:16<dihedral>what's boost::spirit?
14:17<dihedral>that sounds like some church thing :-P
14:17<_minime_>it's a c++ library for writing parsers
14:19<_minime_>anyway, i'll catch ya later
14:19<_minime_>gimme a should if you need something
14:21<dihedral>thanks - shall do
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14:27<@Bjarni><_minime_> Ammler: I hope you're only saying nice things about me ;) <-- sure.... we only talk nice about people in this channel
14:27<@Bjarni>otherwise we wouldn't need PMs :P
14:29<Ammler>hmm, is there something like a whisper mode ?
14:30<@Bjarni>well... somebody removed the ability to remove voice from regular users in here
14:30<@Bjarni>in other words: removing voice from somebody without voice
14:31<@Bjarni>so nobody has to whisper
14:31<@Bjarni>it was great fun to all of a sudden remove voice from some guy in here and they almost always reacted like "wtf... When did I get voice?" :D
14:31<@Bjarni>well... usually I used it as "shut up"
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14:35<SpComb>gah, how annoying, I can't run a server behind my NAT and then join it from a second box behind said NAT via the master server list
14:35<SpComb>as my buffalo can't handle routing traffic from the LAN interface through its NAT table and out the LAN itself
14:36<Noldo>what is the ip that your server gives to masterserver?
14:36<@Bjarni>I don't think I would have a problem doing that, but to be honest I never tried it
14:36<@Bjarni>either I'm all alone or it will be LAN only
14:36<@Bjarni>never both
14:36<SpComb>the IP that my buffalo's WAN interface has, I beleive, the masterserver probably uses the IP that the datagram came from?
14:37[~]SpComb is trying to develop/test MyOTTD with his new network setup
14:37<Noldo>That sounds like natural asumption
14:37<SpComb> <-- shows up there with my WAN IP
14:38<SpComb>at least I found undocumented support for port ranges in the NAT table configuration
14:38<Noldo>are the openttd port forwarded from the buffalo to the server?
14:39<SpComb>yes, I assume that the server works through it, it certainly shows up in the master server list, i.e. the master server is able to query it
14:39<@Bjarni>we released 0.5.3
14:39<@Bjarni>you are using an outdated version
14:39<SpComb>I'll add the 0.5.3 release to the list of supported versions once I get around to it
14:39<Noldo>then it's the buffalo
14:39<Eddi|zuHause2>even worse, an outdated testing version
14:40<SpComb>what's interesting is that the console shows that it registers to the masterserver, and it gets queried by the masterserver, but openttd doesn't realize that :/
14:40<SpComb>1: event: dbg: [NET] Resolved to
14:40<SpComb>1: event: dbg: [NET][UDP] Advertising to master server
14:40<SpComb>1: event: dbg: [NET][UDP] Queried from
14:40<SpComb>after that, nothing
14:40<Noldo>what should happen?
14:40<SpComb>although, wouldn't the UDP packet show up as coming from, not
14:40<dihedral>what's wrong with that?
14:40<Noldo>SpComb: no
14:41<SpComb>shouldn't it say "registered with master server" after that?
14:41<Rubidium>most, if not ALL Cable/DSL routers do not (support to) route LAN traffic back in the LAN
14:41<SpComb>true, the reply gets routed out normally
14:41<dihedral>look at the source, then you will know what is 'should' say
14:41<+glx>SpComb: try lan mode to join
14:41<Rubidium>if it shows on the server list it is registered
14:41<Rubidium>and it can be reached from people on the internet
14:41<SpComb>yeah, I know, it is registered, the only piece of trouble was that I couldn't join it via the list of Internet servers :)
14:42<SpComb>which is more of a cosmetic problem
14:42<Rubidium>because your router doesn't support it
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14:52<@Bjarni>do anybody know if you have an image in MS word (don't ask why it's in use) and you scale it down, can you get word to resize the image to the displayed size?
14:52<@Bjarni>I mean... since it's a big image, it's scaled to way less than 50% of the size, but the .doc file appears to contain the full image
14:52<SpComb> <-- 0.5.3 upgrade process
14:53<Rubidium>Bjarni: right click on the image, properties -> on some of the tabs there's "Compress" that might do what you want
14:53<SpComb> <-- not that the Apply button actually works or anything
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: i'd say use an image manipulation program to downscale the image
14:56<Eddi|zuHause2>word is likely to use some kind of mini-vector-graphics, which means the image is downsized on view, not stored (might increase resolution on printing etc.)
14:57<Eddi|zuHause2>printers typically have much higher resolution than screens
15:00<@Bjarni>I can't find any compress :(
15:01<Rubidium>maybe you've got a lesser form of Word ;)
15:02<Rubidium>or you are looking for the word "Compress" in the Danish version of Word
15:02<@Bjarni>it's not a translation issue
15:03<@Bjarni>so I go for the fact that MS decided that I shouldn't be able to solve this easily
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15:19<dihedral>net_frame_freq - what's your preferences for this value?
15:19<dihedral>and what appart from saving bandwidth do i get when using a lower level?
15:21<Rubidium>lower != saving bandwidth
15:21<Rubidium>lower -> quicker respones
15:21<Rubidium>higher means laggy building
15:21<dihedral>higher values = saving bw?
15:22<dihedral>does this value have influence on cpu?
15:22<Eddi|zuHause2>only a little
15:22<Rubidium>yes, but it's negligable
15:22<dihedral>what advantage would there be to set a higher value?
15:22<Rubidium>lower bandwidth...
15:23<+glx>and slow client can play
15:23<dihedral>yeah - i dont really care for lower bw, anything else? :-)
15:23<Rubidium>glx: not really
15:23<SpComb> <-- isn't someone going to ask what MyOTTD is at some point?
15:23<Rubidium>the person who has thought of that must've been insane
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15:24<+glx><Rubidium> glx: not really <-- they have a little more time to execute the command
15:24<Rubidium>it's like receiving net_frame_freq - 1 less packets that need to be processed, not quite the way to reduce load
15:24<Rubidium>and they do not get more time for executing the commands.
15:24<Rubidium>when the client is lagging 4 game days behind it gets kicked
15:24<Rubidium>it does not depend on net_frame_freq
15:25<dihedral>SpComb: wtf is that?
15:26<dihedral>Rubidium: what advantage would net_sync_freq = 74 bring me, rather than having that set to 100?
15:26<SpComb>dihedral: MyOTTD actually manages the server, like, it runs it, you can configure it, control it, and create new ones
15:27<SpComb>and it pulls the status info from the game via the console, not via UDP queries
15:27<dihedral>i.e. the web server user running screen?\
15:27<SpComb>no, it'a custom python daemon
15:27<dihedral>still run by the webserver user?
15:27<Rubidium>dihedral: that desyncs are (on average) detected a few ticks earlier
15:28<SpComb>dihedral: by whoever runs the daemon, it's a seperate process from the web server, which in itself is a seperate process from apache or lighttpd
15:28<SpComb>currently it's running under my user - terom
15:28<dihedral>so that would not avoid desyncs?
15:28<Rubidium>dihedral: no
15:29<dihedral>SpComb: so the webapp talks to a socket?
15:29<dihedral>Rubidium: why then would someone want to change those values?
15:29|-|Eddi|zuHause2 changed nick to Eddi|zuHause
15:29<SpComb>the webapp talks to the db and to the daemon (using JSON over HTTP)
15:29<Rubidium>dihedral: why should I know that?
15:31<dihedral>SpComb: chat, kick, ban, shared ban?
15:31<SpComb>once I get around to them
15:31<SpComb>and savegames, newgrfs, and more config stuff
15:32<SpComb>there's a lot of work left to do, but I think it's quite an interesting idea
15:33<dihedral>it is
15:33<dihedral>and if you do it, i dont have to :-)
15:36<dihedral>Rubidium: would terragenisis (if that's what it's called) be able to only reconstruct parts of the land?
15:36<dihedral>say for example someone phloods a part of the map
15:36<SpComb>but the idea is to be a web management interface for a dedicated OpenTTD server, as well as a service to run your own dedicated server
15:36<dihedral>would it be possible to have the map generator fix the land again?
15:37<Rubidium>in a running network game?
15:37<Rubidium>don't think you would want that as it's very prone for hacking attempts and such
15:37<dihedral>i.e. ran as an rcon command, passing 2 coords of a rectangle defining the area to rebuild
15:38<Ammler>[22:35] <dihedral> and if you do it, i dont have to :-) <-- you can do it too, better to have 2, then none
15:38<dihedral>OpenTTDLib first
15:38<dihedral>besides i am a php person, not python :-(
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15:40<Rubidium>dihedral: there would (most likely) be too much variables to perform it exactly the same on all computers
15:40<dihedral>would not have to
15:41<dihedral>would only have to sneak in some doCommands
15:41<dihedral>or is that a too dirty solution?
15:41<Rubidium>dihedral: some?
15:42<Rubidium>you first have to clear a large area without making anybody pay
15:42<Rubidium>then you have to "make" the landscape without making anybody pay
15:42<Rubidium>and what would "bad" people do?
15:42<dihedral>PAY :-D
15:42<Rubidium>perform those commands as clients
15:43<Rubidium>i.e. clearing the whole map with "magic" dynamite
15:43<Rubidium>and you need extramagic dynamite as you need to remove all vehicles in that area too
15:43<dihedral>na - the server would not have to accept those doCommands, only send them out to clients
15:44<Rubidium>otherwise you would just place a few ships and it would be *impossible* to reset the land
15:44<dihedral>and ignore tiles that have company owned stuff on them
15:44<dihedral>hmm.... true
15:44<Rubidium>that ignoring would complexify it even more
15:44<dihedral>even more true
15:44<Rubidium>then you just buy a lot of canal
15:45<Rubidium>and you can't change the stuff at all
15:45<dihedral>how about limiting the amount of land that can be terraformed at once
15:45<Rubidium>what is "at once" ?
15:45<Ammler>SpComb: many 500er
15:45<dihedral>making flooding a larger area a tedios something
15:45<dihedral>how do people flood the map
15:46<dihedral>drag and drop a larger area
15:46<dihedral>using the level land tool
15:46<Rubidium>for (TileIndex t = 0; t < MapSize(); t++) DoCommandP(t, 0, 0, CMD_LEVEL_LAND);
15:46<Rubidium>I just levels the complete map
15:46<Rubidium>without using the level land tool
15:47<dihedral>but sent the same commands to the server?
15:47<Rubidium>I've just sent like 2048*2048 commands
15:48<dihedral>but then how many people compile their one ottd with that cmd to ruin other games?
15:48<Rubidium>exactly the ones that want to ruin other games
15:49<SpComb>Ammler: 500er?
15:49<dihedral>the latest floodings i have seen looked more like hand dreg and dropping
15:49<SpComb>oh, HTTP 500
15:52<SpComb>"Like very, very alpha"
15:53<dihedral>Rubidium: concerning breakdowns
15:54<dihedral>would it be possible to have a patch setting, which would define the probability in percent of a breakdown to occure?
15:56<dihedral>that way it would give others more control over the 'realistic' behavior of breakdowns
15:57<dihedral>going to snuggle up to my blanket... good night ladies
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16:36<SpComb>Ammler: - still 500'ing? If so, where?
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16:37<Ammler>SpComb: yes, if I try to stop
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16:44<SpComb>Ammler: fixed
16:45<Ammler>yeah, seems so...
16:46<Ammler>SpComb: now on the mainpage
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16:50<SpComb>a couple rough edges...
16:52<SpComb>but all the buttons on "My Servers" should work now, and there's more of them than there were last week
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16:58<Ammler>SpComb: strange, now the detail page has 500 :)
16:59<SpComb>refresh, methinks
17:00<Ammler>hmm, yes...
17:01<Ammler>SpComb: something like uploading a save and playing it?
17:01<SpComb>savegames are on the TODO list, I implemented the random game thing first
17:02<Progman>SpComb: - but the server exists
17:02<Progman>btw. you cannot delete a server
17:03<@Bjarni>heh.. the freecol homepage is funny
17:03<@Bjarni>news: 0.7.2 is released
17:03<@Bjarni>right next to "download Freecol 0.7.1"
17:04<SpComb>Progman: it's not enabled, you need to press start first
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17:04<@Bjarni>they released and posted news about it, but they didn't update the download link :D
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17:04<@Bjarni>I take that back
17:04<@Bjarni>they did... they just didn't update the text in it
17:07<SpComb>another really cool thing would be a google-maps style scrollable screenshot thing, and implementing it would certainly be interesting
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17:08<Progman>SpComb: can't view it in my list
17:09<Progman>results in 500
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17:09<Progman>same goes for server 15
17:10<SpComb>oh, right I need to handle that as well
17:10<Progman>hmm, every new created server cannot checked in the "my list"
17:11<SpComb>(and yeah, it's vulernable to XSS)
17:11<SpComb>you can also modify the id in the url to any id and play around with other user's servers
17:17<Amix>i am gettting nightly build morphos version to work
17:17<Amix>but the osx version wont work
17:17|-|tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17<Amix>the screen blinks
17:17<Amix>and then returns back to osx
17:18<+glx>Bjarni may help you Amix
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17:19<@Bjarni>Amix: which version of OSX and which CPU?
17:21<Amix>PowerBook 12
17:21<Amix>1gb RAM
17:21<@Bjarni>too much info ;)
17:21<@Bjarni>basically I wanted G4
17:21<SpComb>Progman: now
17:21<Amix>0.3.5 works fine
17:21<Amix>but when i try to start nightly build
17:21<@Bjarni>but which version of OSX?
17:21<Amix>it blinks out
17:22<Progman>SpComb: nothing changed
17:22<@Bjarni>with no error message?
17:22<Amix>i can check
17:22<@Bjarni>check the console too
17:22<Amix>nothing ;)
17:23[~]SpComb adds --reload to the server command line
17:23<@Bjarni> /Applications/Cpnsole
17:23<SpComb>try again
17:23<@Bjarni>without the typo :P
17:24<@Bjarni>looks like I can compile and execute just fine here
17:25<@Bjarni>so it's either CPU specific (unlikely), nightly build server that screwed up or some not so healthy settings in your end
17:25<Amix>my openttd is located on the disk
17:25<Amix>not in aplication folder
17:25<Amix>Bjarni: should i download both
17:26<@Bjarni>actually the path I tried to write before went really wrong. It should be "/Applications/Utilities/Console"
17:26<@Bjarni>open that app, clean the window and try to open OpenTTD again
17:26<Amix>i have console in the bar
17:26<@Bjarni>me too
17:27[~]Bjarni rules out total n00b user
17:27<Amix>so server is the file i should download?
17:27<@Bjarni>only if you want to host a server
17:27<@Bjarni>I mean a dedicated server
17:28<+glx>server version only runs with -D
17:28<@Bjarni>without any GUI
17:28<Progman>SpComb: now you have tasks to do ;)
17:28<Amix>but what should i download
17:29<@Bjarni>that's a universal binary
17:29<@Bjarni>you can also pick a CPU specific package to save bandwidth if you like
17:29<SpComb>Progman: should escape HTML in all the most important places now
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17:29<+glx> <-- should be enough for you I think
17:30<@Bjarni>I just tested the nightly build as well... works here
17:30<Progman>SpComb: and now no link in the overview works
17:30<@Bjarni>Amix: did the console produce anything at all?
17:31<SpComb>too much escaping
17:31<Amix>glx: that one loads
17:31<Amix>but then just blinks out
17:32<Amix>Bjarni: i am not used to the console
17:32<Amix>cant find openttd dir
17:32<Progman>hey, my server ;)
17:32<@Bjarni>console != terminal
17:32[~]SpComb took out the trash
17:32<SpComb>since there's no delete server feature :P
17:32<@Bjarni>terminal is the one with bash shell/tcsh shell or whatever you use
17:33<@Bjarni>console is the place where bundle apps write debug output
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17:33<Amix>Bjarni: how to start from console?
17:33[~]glx guesses Amix didn't have the required data files in the right place
17:33<@Bjarni>you don't
17:33<Amix>glx ?
17:34<@Bjarni>just open the console, use the clean window button (get rid of the debug stuff from other apps) and then open OpenTTD normally from finder
17:34<@Bjarni>glx: I think so too, but then it should tell that with a nice window
17:35<@Bjarni> <-- with a window kind of like this (except it would complain about missing
17:36<Amix>i dont get this ;(
17:36<Amix>i copy 0.3.5 to the openttd dir, it works
17:36<@Bjarni>hmm... looks like I changed the text since I made that screenshot
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17:36<Amix>i copy latest nightly build to the same dir, it runs but blinks out
17:37<@Bjarni>try to rename/move openttd.cfg and try the nightly build again
17:37<@Bjarni>don't delete it
17:37<@Bjarni>if the config file kills the game, then it would be interesting to look at
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17:39<Amix>without the .cfg file
17:39<Amix>openttd wont run at all
17:40<Amix>i tried to rename the openttd.cfg file
17:40<Amix>then move it
17:40<@Bjarni>try to move the nightly build away from your installation (new dir) and try it there
17:40<@Bjarni>then it should complain about missing
17:41<@Bjarni>it would be a good step to verify that it actually fails as expected ;)
17:41<@Bjarni>since your issue sounds weird
17:42<Amix>now is missing
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say ./openttd -d1
17:42<Amix>without data folder
17:42<@Bjarni>goto Documents/OpenTTD (create it if it's missing)
17:43<@Bjarni>make a data dir
17:43<@Bjarni>put in that dir and try again
17:43<@Bjarni>now it should complain about some tr*.grf file
17:43<@Bjarni>verify this
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17:44<Amix>what copies in finder
17:44<Amix>instead of moving
17:44<Amix>any shortcut for that?
17:44<@Bjarni>hold down alt while dragging
17:44<Amix>i am so used to morphos
17:45<+glx>your are 'our' morphos user ;)
17:45<Amix>now TRG1R.GRF is missing
17:45<Amix>glx: what do you mean by that?
17:45<@Bjarni>give it the 5 TTD grf files in the new data dir
17:45<@Bjarni>and now it should work
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't that always tokai or so?
17:46<Amix>now it works
17:46<@Bjarni>no, he is the porter
17:47<Amix>glx: ?
17:47<Amix>i am just a morphos user
17:47<@Bjarni>I still don't know why upgrading failed though
17:47<Amix>me neither
17:47<Amix>worked fine on mos
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: possibly mix between old and new .grf files?
17:47<@Bjarni>works fine for everybody else upgrading
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>(the ones shipped with openttd)
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17:48<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: I placed the mandatory OTTD grf files inside the bundle to avoid that issue
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why don't i have a number today?
17:49<Amix>trams is working
17:49<@Bjarni>so when replacing the bundle to get the new binary, you also replace the lng files and grf files that ships with OpenTTD
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17:50<@Bjarni>Amix: you didn't manually add old grf files in the data dir in your old installation, did you?
17:50<Amix>i just copied over
17:50<Capn_Frink>Someone should make a 'quake2-data'-like package for openttd
17:50<Amix>when 0.5.3 was copied over, everything worked
17:51<@Bjarni>I mean the data dir in your 0.3.5 installation shouldn't contain files like openttd.grf. You don't have those files there, do you?
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>Capn_Frink: you mean like the one on orudge's site?
17:51<@Bjarni>now it's even more weird
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>Capn_Frink: it's 0:50, the day is over...
17:51<Amix>Bjarni: yue
17:51<Amix>yes i have openttd.grf
17:51<Amix>in the 0.3.5 installation
17:52<Capn_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Where am I
17:52[~]Bjarni wonders what it's doing there
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know?
17:52<@Bjarni>anyway it would break something
17:52<@Bjarni>the game should tell you that
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i rephrase that
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>why should any time other than mine matter?
17:52<Capn_Frink>What are you? American?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>worse, german :p
17:53<@Bjarni>anyway it's working and since you are the first with this issue, I gamble that you will also be the last
17:53<Ammler>worse then american?
17:53<@Bjarni>you can't be worse than the Americans
17:53<Capn_Frink>Yes you can
17:53<Capn_Frink>You can be Texan
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17:53<Capn_Frink>Admittedly, it's a subset, but meh
17:54<@Bjarni>that's part of America (even though they properly don't realise that)
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>texans are like bavarians ;)
17:54<@Bjarni>that sounds bad for Bavaria
17:54<Capn_Frink>What's the difference between Texas and Yogurt?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>both have a weird dialect, both live in the south of their country, both are thinking their state is the only good one :p
17:54<@Bjarni>the spelling of the name for once
17:54<Amix>glx: i know several other morphos users which are playing openttd here in oslo ;)
17:55<@Bjarni>Oslo has more than one MorphOS user?
17:55<Capn_Frink>Yogurt has culture.
17:55<@Bjarni>good one
17:55<Amix>Bjarni: there is atleast 20000 morphos users worldwide
17:56<Amix>+ those which have it on their classic amigas
17:57<@Bjarni>I don't get why people wants to use such a small OS for their computer. Sure the OS is nice, but the software....
17:57<+glx>sorry my brain mixed up morphos and os/2 ;)
17:57<@Bjarni>the software is nice, but the offer is limited
17:57<Amix>Bjarni: the OS is fantastic
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>there is openttd
17:58<Amix>thats my answer
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>what else do you need?
17:58<@Bjarni>when it comes to games
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>there is something other than games?
17:58<@Bjarni>but I like to use the computer for other stuff than games
17:58<Amix>i am using morphos for lots
17:58<@Bjarni>I only opened a game for one purpose today
17:59<@Bjarni>I needed to check the nightly build for Amix
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18:00<Amix>Bjarni: i am using morphos for web, irc, ftp, e-mail, SDL games, DTP, Graphics etc
18:00<@Bjarni>heh... I just remembered SkyOS
18:01<@Bjarni>it would be fun to support it, but the SkyOS guy didn't want to port it correctly, so we don't
18:01<@Bjarni>if we did, then we could say "it runs on SkyOS.... we can make it run on anything"
18:02<Amix>morphos is a bit more connected than that
18:02<Amix>its compatible with 68k AmigaOS software aswell
18:05<Amix>its like electric cars
18:05<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Does it run on netBSD running on a toaster?
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18:14<@Bjarni><Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Does it run on netBSD running on a toaster? <-- I don't even have to answer to that because the demand for my statement was that we could officially support SkyOS... since we don't, then you can't conclude any support at all
18:14<@Bjarni>if (statement) then (a whole lot of support)
18:14<@Bjarni>it's logic ;)
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18:15<Amix>how about a port for Nintendo DS
18:15<Amix>or even Symbian devices?
18:15<Amix>Nokia N95, Nokia E90 etc
18:17<ln->it's not a joke
18:18<Amix>but there are millions using symbian worldwide
18:18<ln->that doesn't make symbian any better.
18:19<Amix>is PSP any better?
18:19<ln->at least it doesn't have symbian.
18:20<Amix>i am betatester of symbian programs. i might not have the same feeling for symbian as you. for the user, symbian is great.
18:21<ln->i've heard symbian phones have slow user interfaces.
18:21<Amix>i have Nokia E90
18:21<Amix>no slowdowns
18:22<ln->a "hello world" program in symbian is ~700 lines.
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18:22<ln->of code
18:22<Amix>ls-: hehe
18:22<Amix>all oses have their weaknesses i guess
18:23<Amix>developers talked about the difficulty to code for PS2
18:23<ln->nokia employees are said to call it "the piece of shit OS"
18:23<Amix>versus Dreamcast, which was fairly simple compared
18:24<Amix>i am supporting symbian and linux phones as i dont like windows mobile and microsofts goals etc
18:26<ln->what is the resolution of your E90's screen?
18:27<Amix>and 320x240
18:27<Amix>switching between the screens is even good
18:27<+glx>320x240 is too small
18:27<Amix>the problem with symbian
18:27<+glx>(for openttd)
18:27<Amix>is that it needs ram
18:27<Amix>E90 got 128mb internal mem etc
18:28<Amix>compared to my previous N70 with 16mb
18:28<Amix>glx: 800x352 would be ok ;)
18:29<Amix>its the same thing with amigaos
18:29<Amix>more programs run better with more ram
18:32<ln->800x352 is still quite small.
18:32<ln->try to resize your openttd window to that size and play.
18:33<+glx>I sometime plays in a 640x640 window
18:33<+glx>oops 640x480
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18:36<Amix>i think it could work
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18:36<Amix>if the icons were moved somehow
18:36<Amix>the web browser which e90 uses, have mousepointer, so i guess that developers have access to it etc
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18:42<+glx>nice screen size
18:44<ln->unfortunately the screen width is limited to 2048 by default.
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18:44<Eddi|zuHause>my CRT that ran on 1600x1200 died, now i have a slightly bigger LCD on 1680x1050
18:45[~]ln- has 1680x1050 + 1280x1024
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>but now i can watch 16:9 movies in full screen ;)
18:45<ln->there are still black bars
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but much smaller
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>the screen is about 50% wider than the CRT
18:47<ln->is it 20" or 22"?
18:47<ln->k, mine is 20"
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>cost me like 320€
18:48<ln->this one was 360€ about a year ago
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18:52<Amix>nice rails
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18:52<Amix>Eddi|zuHause: which set is that?
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>the rails are standard, the catenary is dutchcatw.grf
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>the trainset is dbsetxlw.grf
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>and the landscape is alpinew.grf
18:53<Amix>you should make a site like
18:53<Amix>but for openttd stuff
18:54<Amix>that would rock
18:56<Ammler>Amix: maybe you are looking for that:
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19:00<+glx>Ammler: still no assert?
19:01<Ammler>:) no, silly
19:01<+glx>yeah that's weird
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>it's a schrödingbug ;)
19:02|-|Diabolic1Angel changed nick to Diabolic-Angel
19:02<+glx>it doesn't exists when we want to see it
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>it ceases to be a bug if you de-bug it ;)
19:04<Ammler>the assert came with 2 different nightlies
19:04<Ammler>so, its nothing reacently changed
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>does it still happen with the unpatched binary?
19:05<Ammler>didn't try it
19:06<Ammler>but that would be more strange :)
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19:17<Eddi|zuHause>PS: other side of the hill:,%2029.%20Sep%201925.png
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19:20<Amix>Ammler: thanks
19:20<Amix>but would be nice with sort of info telling newest addons to the page etc
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 20 00:00:07 2007