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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-21

---Logopened Fri Sep 21 00:00:42 2007
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00:48<dihedral>greetings :-)
00:48[~]dihedral waves
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00:56<dihedral>a chance of splitting rcon up a little?
00:56<dihedral>i.e. specifying which commands can be run?
00:57<dihedral>or an operator rcon, only allowing kick, ban, pause, unpause, newgame, unban, and not allowing setting of patches, or network vars?
00:59<[newbie]>sounds good
00:59|-|[newbie] changed nick to Gekko
00:59<Gekko>>_>
00:59<Gekko>stupid OFTC.
00:59<Gekko>Admin, Op, User
01:00[~]dihedral slaps Gekko .... just for the fun of it
01:00[~]dihedral waves
01:00<Gekko>hii
01:01[~]Rubidium as mathematician says: there always is a chance, even though the chance might be 0 or 1.
01:01<dihedral>Rubidium: lol
01:01<dihedral>seriously, what you think of it?
01:02<Rubidium>doesn't that imply that there are more passwords to be managed?
01:03<Rubidium>and a whole ACL system because person A does not want his operator to pause/unpause a game whereas person B wants it
01:03<dihedral>nono
01:04<Gekko>referee, that's what it's called.
01:04<Gekko>like on ET.
01:04<dihedral>was thinking more like spliting up between settings, and game play
01:04<Gekko>admin, referee, player are the levels
01:04<dihedral>admin, referee, player, garbage, Gekko :-D
01:04<Gekko>yeah you wish kid.
01:04<dihedral>:-)
01:04<Gekko>you'll get yours
01:04<dihedral>lol
01:05[~]Gekko shakes fist
01:05[~]Gekko trembles fist
01:05<dihedral>i dont wanna know what you shake
01:05[~]Gekko falls upon weight of own fist
01:06<Rubidium>dihedral: there are still people that want referees to have pause/unpause "capabilities", whereas there are people that do not want to give referees that ability
01:06<Rubidium>and again, you need a whole user management system for this to work
01:07<dihedral>just 2 different passwords
01:07<dihedral>and a patch setting, op_include_pause
01:07<Gekko>another conf file
01:07<Gekko>:D
01:10<Rubidium>and then someone that does not allow referees to unban people
01:10<Rubidium>and ...
01:10<Rubidium>and ...
01:10<Rubidium>and ...
01:10<Rubidium>ergo... you need a ACL system
01:11<Gekko>what's wrong with an ACL system
01:11<Gekko>a conf file.
01:11<Rubidium>I didn't say there's something wrong
01:11<Gekko>OP_BAN_HAMMERAGE=1
01:11<Rubidium>it's just a hell of a lot of work to implement
01:11<Rubidium>and review
01:12<dihedral>yes - i agree with that
01:13<dihedral>but until then - spliting up into 2 rcons is a start, is it not?
01:14<dihedral>or is it more like something you'd never want to go to?
01:16<Rubidium>dihedral: it's like with increasing the number of clients
01:16<Rubidium>either do it GOOD or don't do it at all, don't do it in some "bad" manner
01:18<dihedral>totaly understand that
01:18<Rubidium>i.e. don't take the quick "fix" way when that "fix" is going to be "not enough" in a few weeks
01:19<dihedral>yes, but even if it aint going to be enough in a few weeks, developing the ACL would take more than just a few weeks, and therefore could be at least a beginning :-)
01:19<Rubidium>and about the fetching of newgrf names... it does not always return all names in a single packet because they might not all fit in a single packet.
01:19<Rubidium>you just have to rerequest the ones you did not get the name of
01:19<dihedral>i figured that
01:20<dihedral>will i get a name for everything, or could it happen that one of the grfid's is left out as an 'unknown'
01:20<Rubidium>dihedral: and WHO cares about those few extra weeks; it's not like it's going to be on 0.5.4 and 0.6.0 isn't *that* near either
01:20<Rubidium>dihedral: an efficient way to get the grfids quicker is just locally caching them with grfid + md5sum
01:20<dihedral>well - i was hoping for something towards 0.6 :-D
01:21<dihedral>Rubidium: was thinking of including a cache :-)
01:21<dihedral>but first i want it to work on #openttdcoop :-)
01:22<Rubidium>did the server crash or so?
01:22<dihedral>why?
01:22<dihedral>no
01:22<Rubidium>as you describe it as work on ...
01:23<dihedral>i want to be able to query #openttdcoop successfully :-)
01:23<dihedral>i.e. the amount of loaded newgrfs is what i am looking at
01:25<dihedral>does the server *have* to send back the md5sums in the UDP_SERVER_NEWGRFS packet? are the grfid's not enough,
01:25<dihedral>freeing enough space in the packet to send a bunch more grf names?
01:26<Rubidium>it's technically possible to load several GRFs with the same GRFID (though the current GUI disallows that)
01:26<dihedral>Rubidium: why are you actually up this early ?
01:26<dihedral>oh
01:27<dihedral>that is good to know
01:27<Rubidium>cause I went to bed early
01:27<dihedral>i was using the id as the index in an array :-P
01:27<Rubidium>(and I'm having an internship at the moment)
01:27<dihedral>still, it's like 7.30 in the uk
01:27<Rubidium>8:27 here
01:27<dihedral>oh
01:27<dihedral>you're in the uk right?
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01:28<dihedral>no
01:28<dihedral>my mistake
01:28<dihedral>never mind :-)
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03:54<gfldex>is there a monospace font in OTTD?
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03:58<Rubidium>not by default
04:00<Gekkko>there is one?
04:01<Rubidium>your OS' fonts or a newgrf to replace the fonts
04:03<Gekkko>oh.
04:06<gfldex>would the font system allow to have a 2nd font?
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04:41[~]dihedral waves :-)
04:41<Ammler>dihedral: lib 0.3?
04:41<dihedral>Ammler: getting there
04:42<dihedral>but if you want the banner system in there too, it'll take a little longer :-D
04:42<Ammler>hmm, split it for next version, you need something for 0.4 :)
04:45<dihedral>:-) lol
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06:33<mcbane>afternoon =)
06:34<TrueBrain>howdie
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06:37<mcbane>yay munich getting overrun by tourist (oktoberfest starts in 2 days)
06:42<skidd13|UNI>Anyone in here who can tell me how to be able to use svn behind a proxy?
06:43<mcbane>no clue =/
06:44<Rubidium>run a http svn server
06:44<Tefad>http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#proxy ?
06:45<TrueBrain>use SOCKS
06:47<Sacro>ssh tunnel?
06:47<skidd13|UNI>I meant I want to use the svn client behind our UNI proxy.
06:47<skidd13|UNI>Tefad: I changed the config already at my notebook, but does not work.
06:47<Sacro>skidd13|UNI: ssh tunnel it?
06:48<Sacro>or tor might be fun
06:48<TrueBrain>Sacro: I think if he can use ssh, he can use svn too ;)
06:48<Sacro>true
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06:49<skidd13|UNI>TrueBrain: What do you have in mind with SOCKS?
06:49<TrueBrain>skidd13|UNI: if the proxy supports SOCKS5, it allows everything
06:49<TrueBrain>as you have simple applications that route an internal port via SOCKS5 to the internet
06:49<TrueBrain>transparent
06:49<TrueBrain>at least, on windows you had ;)
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06:49<skidd13|UNI>Only HTTP :(
06:49<TrueBrain>morning _Ben_ :)
06:50<TrueBrain>skidd13|UNI: and we don't have http svn, so... either setup a mirror somewhere which does support http svn
06:50<TrueBrain>or wait till you are home ;)
06:50<_Ben_>Hi
06:50<TrueBrain>or use a HTTP-tunnel
06:50<TrueBrain>LOL :)
06:50<skidd13|UNI>:(
06:50<TrueBrain>I wonder about the lag a http tunnel would create :)
06:51<TrueBrain>if it supports https, it would be easier to set up a https tunnel
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07:08<skidd13|UNI>only plain http. That sucks.
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07:37<dihedral>hello :-)
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07:41<TrueBrain>hi dihedral
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07:52<dihedral>uh - TrueBrain - long time no... chat :-)
07:52<TrueBrain>:p
07:56<TrueBrain>lol, saving your modifications mostly helps to test new things :p
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08:00<dihedral>TrueBrain: yep :-)
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08:07<boekabart>is http server users.tt-forums.net down ?
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08:10<TrueBrain>boekabart: is it still?
08:11<boekabart>try to open http://users.tt-forums.net/dutchset/index.php?page=set2
08:11<boekabart>no go
08:12<boekabart>actually
08:12<boekabart>sometimes i get something
08:12<boekabart>veeeeeery slowly
08:12<TrueBrain>slow indeed
08:13<boekabart>the main page sometimes opens - the set2 page - no success so far. Is it in a different location than the forum / svn lalala servers?
08:14<TrueBrain>forums != svn != users.forums, server-wise
08:14<boekabart>i know, that's why I asked about location not server :)
08:16<TrueBrain>You need orudge
08:16<boekabart>your servers DO work, his don't? ;)
08:17<TrueBrain>his servers work too
08:17<boekabart>just slow :)
08:17<TrueBrain>one of them, yes
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08:18<boekabart>anyway - don't think there's anything interesting to download about dutchset yet, is there?
08:21<TrueBrain>boekabart: how is it working now?
08:25<boekabart>yep
08:25<boekabart>but - nothing interesting there - the forum seems more up-to-date
08:26<TrueBrain>pff, ondankbaar kreng :p :p :p
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09:13<dihedral>hmm... i dont get a response when sending the second UDP_CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS packet
09:14<dihedral>* after sending... :-)
09:14<dihedral>anybody with any ideas?
09:15<dihedral>perhaps Rubidium or TrueBrain ?
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09:26<dihedral>dont even get the first response from #openttdcoop
09:26<dihedral>then when i query my game (only 1 newgrf loaded) there is no prob...
09:30<dihedral>:-(
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09:42<dihedral>i get info on 5 grf's, then it conks out...
09:44[~]dihedral does not know what's going on...
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09:48<dihedral>any reason why only certain newgrf's are returned by the game server?
09:50<dihedral>Rubidium ? you around ?
09:50<+glx>dihedral: retry later :)
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09:51<Eddi|zuHause3>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%208.%20Mai%201931.png <- a rheingold express at a river bank :)
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10:44<Rubidium>dihedral: you know what UDP is? Might well be the "cause" of your packets not being delivered
10:45<dihedral>i somehow doubt that if i lower the packet contents to only request 2 grf's
10:45<dihedral>that i only get answers when certain grf's are requested
10:45<dihedral>and they seem to be the same time... all the time
10:46<dihedral>i.e. openttdcoop server will respond if i at least request info for the new bridges thing
10:46<_minime_>dihedral: why not make a queue of grfid/md5 combinations you need to resolve, transfer one request for each, and once you receive results remove it from the queue
10:46<_minime_>keep going until queue is empty
10:46<dihedral>that is what i am doing
10:46<dihedral>though i am bundeling a few grf's together
10:47<dihedral>i have tried with only 1 grf in each packet
10:47<dihedral>*grf_id
10:47<dihedral>though again, as soon as it hits a certain one, it does not respond
10:48<_minime_>what if you try it on a local server... does that work better?
10:48<_minime_>is it always the same one?
10:48<dihedral>next thing to test :-)
10:55<dihedral>and why would a game respond with only 1 grf in a file if 26 have been requested, and no - the packet size was not exceeded
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10:58<dihedral>i do understand the nature of UDP Rubidium
11:00<dihedral>though if so far _all_ the other udp packets got there, and responses got back...
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11:21<dihedral>Rubidium: i am fairly sure the udp packets are getting there
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11:26<Wolf01>hello
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11:41<dihedral>hello
11:46<dihedral>Rubidium: as far as i have understood network_udp.cpp if FindGRFConfig returnes null, the grf requested is ignored
11:47<dihedral>would it be an idea to at least let the client know that it's not known by the server?\
11:51<dihedral>not there again... :-(
11:51<dihedral>:-P
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11:55[~]SpComb has succesfully managed to parse settings.c and settings_gui.c
11:56<SpComb>http://dev.myottd.marttila.de:8160/me/servers/1/config <-- it has more configureable settings than the OpenTTD ingame patch editor, difficulty settings window, game options window and such combined
12:01<Rubidium>dihedral: invalid requests should *always* be ignored (IMO)
12:02<dihedral>in a way
12:03<dihedral>if i sent a udp packet with grf id's and md5 sums which i received from the server, i at least expect the server to somehow acknowledge what i asked
12:03<dihedral>rather than waiting for ever for a response, and that way timing out
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12:08<Rubidium>dihedral: so if I flood you system with UDP packets with faked source destination, you are going to flood the faked source with "invalid packet" messages?
12:08<Rubidium>s/you system/your system/
12:09<dihedral>yeah - i know
12:09<dihedral>but then the same is the case for the detail packets :-)
12:09<dihedral>flood with requests
12:09<Rubidium>yup, but only valid requests and that is something you cannot stop
12:10<Rubidium>but me sending random garbage to random ports is much easier that constructing valid packets
12:10<dihedral>well - at least say if the ones that were sent in the info packet and now requested are unknown
12:10<Rubidium>the ones sent in the info packet should not be unknown
12:11<dihedral>but i found some that are
12:11<dihedral>or - more likeley i am constructing something wrong
12:11<dihedral>but then it seems to work for some grf id's and md5 sums but not for others
12:12<Rubidium>well, what grf ids for which server?
12:12<dihedral>i added a debug message for unknown grf's, i.e. FindGRFConfig returning null
12:13<dihedral>ottdc_grfpack/7_stations/ae_city/ae_cityw.GRF on a nightly
12:13<Rubidium>that means you are doing something wrong
12:13<dihedral>good
12:13<dihedral>i love hearing that :-)
12:13<Rubidium>because FindGRFConfig returns something for all GRFs the server knows
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12:13<Rubidium>and the server cannot not know a GRF and use it at the same time
12:13<dihedral> f = FindGRFConfig(c.grfid, c.md5sum);
12:13<dihedral> if (f == NULL) continue; // The GRF is unknown to this server
12:14<dihedral>lines 218, 219 in network_udp.cpp
12:14<Rubidium>I suspect the handling of the data you receive is faulty
12:14<Rubidium>dihedral: yeah, I know those lines
12:14<dihedral>:-)
12:15<dihedral>hey - at least i have a chance to bother you and at the same time learn something :-D
12:15<Rubidium>OTTD will even return something when it even isn't using the newgrf in the current game
12:15<dihedral>i shall go on a 10 minute hunt
12:15[~]dihedral hunts for his mistakes
12:15<Rubidium>happy hunting
12:16[~]Rubidium knows the problem though ;)
12:16<dihedral>thanks for letting me bother you as much though :-)
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12:24<Rubidium>dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting: start by dumping the GRF IDs and MD5 checksums that OTTD sends you (in OTTD), the "this are my settings and grfs used"-reply and the ones you receive from your tool in OTTD,the "get newgrf information"-query
12:25<dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting>i checked my hex values against those listed on the master server (servers.openttd.org)
12:25|-|dihedral|bad_mistake_hunting changed nick to dihedral
12:26<Rubidium>and?
12:26<dihedral>and the md5 sums, they are correct
12:26<Rubidium>but WHAT does OTTD receive?
12:26<dihedral>when i send a grf request to the server, and the server does not know it, it dumps that grf id to the console too
12:26<dihedral>in dec- i get a 1380275200, and the server got a 1380275200
12:26<Rubidium>dihedral: it's not in the GRF IDs
12:27<dihedral>md5?
12:27<Rubidium>most likely yes
12:27<dihedral>k
12:27<dihedral>i'll check that one :-)
12:27<Rubidium>at least, that's what I gather from the information I got from you
12:27<dihedral>:-P
12:27<Rubidium>and I acquired myself from the GRF you gave as example
12:28<Eddi|zuHause3>GRF IDs are probably more meaningful in hex...
12:28<dihedral>52455400
12:29<Rubidium>printing the whole MD5 as a single decimal would be nice though ;)
12:29<dihedral>shall do
12:29<dihedral>gimme a sec :-)
12:29<Rubidium>dihedral: you can't do that (easily)
12:29<dihedral>no?
12:29<dihedral>c.md5sum? not?
12:29<Rubidium>it's like a 256 bits variable you want to print as decimal
12:30<Rubidium>and printf only goes till 64
12:30<dihedral>shoot
12:30<Rubidium>so you have to make a biginteger class first
12:30<dihedral>but at least that is a good hint
12:30<Rubidium>you can ofcourse loop the array and dump the hex for each byte
12:30<dihedral>i am either way off, or not at all
12:34<Rubidium>'\0'
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12:41<dihedral>i am missing a 0 for 00 or things like 0e i then only get 0 or e!
12:41<dihedral>:-P how silly is that
12:41<dihedral>that would explain why it worked for some and not for others :-D
12:41<dihedral>i love blaming others for my mistakes... :-P
12:42<Rubidium>printf("%02x", <byte>)
12:42<Rubidium>lol ;)
12:42<Rubidium>I expected '
12:42<Rubidium>'\0'-terminated strings
12:43<dihedral>what's wrong with \0 terminated strings?
12:43<Rubidium>you know what the MD5 checksum of that city station is?
12:44<Rubidium>1600687C50C5AB1E72EDD487CAD50E2A
12:44<dihedral>yep
12:44<Rubidium>guess what, the second byte is 0, i.e. '\0'
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12:44<dihedral>ah
12:44<dihedral>nice
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause3>that should rather be a fixed size array, or?
12:51<dihedral>does that mean that i have to also sent a \0 instead of 0 for the second byte?
12:53<Rubidium>'\0' == (char)0
12:53<dihedral>Rubidium: how can i get from c.md5sum to the actual hex value? so i can output that on the console
12:54<Rubidium>for (uint i = 0; i < sizeof(c.md5sum); i++) printf("%02x", c.md5sum[i]); printf("\n");
12:54<Rubidium>or something like that
12:54<dihedral>thx
12:58<dihedral>well - then the server just got a 1600687c50c5ab1e72edd487cad50e2a and still sais its unknown
12:58<Rubidium>does the server actually have that newgrf?
13:00<Rubidium>'cause it will *only* return something when it actually knows the newgrf
13:00<Rubidium>and knowing means same GRFID + MD5
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13:01<dihedral>i am getting that info in the info packet
13:01<dihedral>so it must know it
13:01<dihedral>and yes - it's loaded
13:02<dihedral>i am gonna output the grfid along witht the md5 sum just to make sure
13:03<dihedral>ok - what i intend to send is actually getting there
13:04<dihedral>everything is matching now
13:04<Rubidium>then dump the whole list of newgrfs it compares it to too
13:04<SpComb>if I'm letting users change the patch settings on a dedicated server that runs on my machine, are there some settings that I'd want to lack down, that effect e.g. CPU useage?
13:05<Rubidium>autoslopes, build on slopes
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13:05<Rubidium>map_x, map_y
13:05<dihedral>max_ships :-D
13:05<Rubidium>roadveh_queue
13:05<Rubidium>autorenew
13:06<Rubidium>*all* pathfinding patches
13:06<Rubidium>max_<vehicle type>
13:06<SpComb>well, map_x, map_y need to be able to be changed, but I mean stuff that would stick OpenTTD into a ~infinite loop or such
13:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11134 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1238]: vehicles got removed twice from the group list when selling whole trains.
13:06<dihedral>Rubidium: i shall load the gertram set, as it works with that
13:06<Rubidium>longbridges
13:06<dihedral>and see if i can find a diff
13:06<Rubidium>SpComb: infinite loop -> bug
13:07<SpComb>I don't need to disable everything that raises CPU/mem use by 1%, but stuff like setting some kind of pathfinder recursion depth to five million or whatever
13:07<Rubidium>you just wanted to know what patches affect CPU usage
13:07<dihedral>:-)
13:07<SpComb>I didn't word my question well enough
13:07<blathijs>Rubidium: He said ~infinite, meaning probably near-infinite
13:08<Rubidium>yeah, knowing the quality of computers, they won't last for infinite length
13:08<blathijs>ie, asking OpenTTD to do practically impossible things would give you a practically infinite loop :-)
13:08<dihedral>lol
13:08<SpComb>just to stop users from breaking my server
13:14<dihedral>heh
13:14<dihedral>Rubidium: the server only outputs messages for the first 2 grfid/md5sum pairs in the packet
13:15<dihedral>i sent 6
13:15<Rubidium>why does it terminate the loop?
13:16<dihedral>i have no idea
13:18<Rubidium>well, only you can tell as I haven't had that problem before
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13:19<dihedral>forget that last one
13:19<dihedral>:-S
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13:34<dihedral>found it Rubidium
13:35<dihedral>looks like the server sends the grfid with a different endianness than it reads it :-P
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13:39<dihedral> or to put it even better, what i outputed on the console for the grfid was ... hehe ... what can be seen on servers.openttd.org, not what the server wanted
13:39<dihedral>:-P
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13:49<dihedral>Rubidium: thank you ever so much for your help
13:50<dihedral>it finally worked to fetch newgrf lists from #openttdcoop
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14:00<dihedral>Rubidium: whats up with http://www.openttd.org/server_detail.php?id=10 GRFID = 0, GRF Name 'not yet known' ??
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14:17<dihedral>TrueBrain: do you know why the masterserver shows a new grf as not yet known?
14:18<Ammler>dihedral: can you catch the infos about that GRF anyway?
14:19<dihedral>yep
14:19<dihedral>just uploading a demo for you
14:20<Ammler>hmm, caching is something you should think about too...
14:20<Ammler>else traffic to masterserver will grow...
14:20<dihedral>i dont query the master server
14:21<dihedral>http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/demo/OpenTTDLib-0.3tobe/example2.php
14:21<dihedral>still needs some optical work but functionality is there :-)
14:22<Ammler>looks fine :)
14:22<dihedral>+ a link to grfcrawler
14:23<Ammler>about traffic, I thought you need to ask Masterserver about name
14:23<dihedral>nope
14:24<dihedral>i ask the game for the name
14:24<Ammler>aha
14:24<dihedral>for that list of 26 grf's i think its about 3 - 5 separate requests
14:24<dihedral>+ info + details
14:26<Ammler>hmm, pb_viaduct has no "proper" name
14:26<dihedral>if the server cannot determin a name, it sends a filename
14:27<Ammler>its the same in the ottd client
14:27<dihedral>though once there is a cache in place (which i am planing on doing) you could specify a name yourself
14:27<dihedral>yep
14:27<Ammler>yeah, its like a client :)
14:27<dihedral>it does exactly the same as a client
14:28<dihedral>also need to add to the documentation before releasing
14:29<Ammler>these PEAR Template isn't needed, its just for your example?
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14:35<fjb>Hi
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14:41<@Bjarni>greetings fjb
14:42<dihedral>Ammler: yes
14:42<dihedral>Ammler: i am used to using pear's HTML_Template_Sigma
14:43<Ammler>SpComb: lol, some guys already played on the testservers, I created at your server. :)
14:43<dihedral>of course you can use any templating system you like, or whatever
14:43<dihedral>Ammler: lol
14:43<SpComb>http://zapotekii:9160/me/servers/1/config <-- contents of page generated almost entirely from settings.c, settings_gui.c and lang/english.txt, only some things related to the difficulty settings (some strings and the std_id starting offsets) are hardcoded
14:44<SpComb>Ammler: yeah, there tend to be random groups of people choosing a server and playing onit
14:44<Ammler>:)
14:44<SpComb>make that http://dev.myottd.marttila.de:8160//me/servers/1/config
14:44<Ammler>I saw it already
14:44<SpComb>it's changed
14:45<SpComb>make that http://dev.myottd.marttila.de:8160/me/servers/1/config - with only one /
14:45<dihedral>Ammler: the template makes it a lot easier and nicer (code wise) http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/example2.php
14:45<SpComb>it renders pretty nicely in links as well
14:47<Ammler>SpComb: many options to set :)
14:47<SpComb>Ammler: more than the ingame OpenTTD GUI lets you
14:47<Ammler>:)
14:49<Ammler>SpComb: but its like usual, changing doesn't affect running game?
14:49<fjb>That looks really great.
14:49<SpComb>nope, implementing the changes doesn't exist yet
14:50<Ammler>it "just" writes the cfg
14:50<SpComb>the displaying's pretty much finished, I'll write that bit next
14:50<Ammler>Cool idea to parse source code....
14:51<SpComb>it'll break if anyone changes the structure of the OpenTTD source in a significant way, though :/
14:51<SpComb>but the code seems to work fine on 0.5.3 and 0.5.2
14:53<dihedral>what do you mean with 'parsing the source code' ?
14:53<SpComb>I can show you the code in a sec
14:53<SpComb>regexps on the output of gcc -E/the file itself
14:53<dihedral>why?
14:54<SpComb>how else?
14:54<SpComb>I guess I could write some C code that included settings.c and then wrote out the values there
14:54<SpComb>but then I'd have to compile that and all that
14:54<dihedral>heh
14:54<dihedral>true
14:54<SpComb>http://misc.marttila.de/browser/pyottd/udp.py <-- my python UDP querying code
14:55<SpComb>I'll link you to openttd.py once the page loads...
14:56<dihedral>you query the master server?
14:56<SpComb>no, udp.py's part of a seperate project
14:57<SpComb>marttila.de's having some serious performance problems, not sure wha
14:58<dihedral>check the running games :-)
14:58<dihedral>ships
14:59<dihedral>or map generation of everybody in here trying your page :-P
15:00<SpComb>myottd runs on a seperate server
15:02<dihedral>heh
15:02<dihedral>nice
15:02<dihedral>liking this more and more
15:02<Ammler>SpComb: I did never activate advertise, but the servers are on the public list
15:02<dihedral>:-D
15:02<SpComb>I don't think the advertise setting works
15:02<dihedral>aint nothing going over good testing :-D
15:02<SpComb>(yes, it remains, like, very, very, alpha)
15:03<Ammler>thats why I was wondering before, I saw the server on the list. :) )
15:04<SpComb>http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/openttd/openttd.py <-- the code that parses the OpenTTD source
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15:09<Wolf01>'night
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15:11<Ammler>SpComb: do you also handle limits?
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15:13<Ammler>hmm, and is it possible to see which options are changeable on clientside
15:13<SpComb>http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/daemon/main.py#L362 <-- the daemon code that returns the config
15:13<SpComb>http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/web/web/templates/me_server_config.myt <-- the template that renders that page
15:13<Ammler>Brianetta: do you like to install python on your server? :)
15:14<SpComb>Ammler: on the page itself? Not yet, no
15:14<SpComb>the daemon code handles the limits when setting stuff
15:14<SpComb>I intend not to do any checking on the web page yet, I'll just feed them in and catch any errors caused by my config value checking code and/or openttd itself
15:16<Rubidium>dihedral: that GRF has some "magic" GRF ID (I think)
15:16<dihedral>i can see the id though
15:16<dihedral>:-)
15:16<dihedral>and the name
15:16<Ammler>Rubidium: possible, th_gergo just took random ids
15:17<dihedral>Rubidium: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/demo/OpenTTDLib-0.3tobe/example2.php
15:17<SpComb>what are you working on now? Something to do with GRFCrawler?
15:17<dihedral>it's the Cantilever Bidge Renewal 83320111
15:18<dihedral>SpComb: added newgrf support to OpenTTDLib
15:18<dihedral>i.e. the CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS and SERVER_NEWGRFS udp packets
15:18<SpComb>I've been told that newgrf crawler offers some kind of API for querying that kind of stuff, but I haven't got a chance to ask eis_os about it yet
15:20<Ammler>btw, is grfcrawler opensource?
15:21<dihedral>heh - no idea
15:21<dihedral>why?
15:21<Rubidium>for some "strange" reason there are quite a few NewGRFs with grfid 0 it seems (all unknown though)
15:21<dihedral>why then do i get information on that grf, and the master server says 'unknown'
15:21<Ammler>hmm, then you could have a look on the source for the API
15:21<dihedral>what is the master server doing to get the names?
15:21<Rubidium>the same
15:21<Rubidium>basically
15:22<Rubidium>but apparantly it sometimes got bogus data replied or so
15:22<dihedral>ouch
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15:22<Rubidium>hmm
15:22<Rubidium>on the other hand...
15:22<dihedral>does it have a cache?
15:22<Rubidium>the number is > int32
15:23<dihedral>if it were > int32 i would be getting similar results, no?
15:24<Rubidium>> MAX_INT32
15:24<dihedral>ah
15:24<dihedral>but then again - if it were that, would the server send the id correctly?
15:25<dihedral>would the server not have the similar issue when sending out the info packet?
15:25<Rubidium>not necessarily
15:25<Rubidium>if the bug is in the MYSQL writing part
15:26<dihedral>heh
15:26<dihedral>nice
15:26<dihedral>:-P
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15:32<Ammler>Rubidium: should it be UNSIGNED INT32?
15:34<Ammler>GRFID is 4Bytes, so INT32 should be enough, shouldn't?
15:36<Rubidium>printf("%d", int) isn't
15:38<Ammler>? whats the output?
15:38<Ammler>(don't unerstand cish)
15:39<Ammler>and more sadly, don't speak english well. :)
15:40<Rubidium>Ammler: that "assumes" the number is signed
15:42<Ammler>so it could be the bug for "not known"?
15:42<Rubidium>it *is*
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15:48<dihedral>but that hast to be on the master server right?
15:48<dihedral>or is that in the game server?
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15:50<Rubidium>masterserver
15:52<Ammler>yeah, because your script works!
15:53<dihedral>and is that when the master server writes to the sql db or not
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16:12<Rubidium>dihedral: looks like the masterserver has the right info too ;)
16:12<Rubidium>and it's soo much prettier ;)
16:12<dihedral>:-D
16:13<dihedral>i had it first :-D
16:13|-|thgergo [~Thiering_@dsl5402B3F3.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
16:13<Rubidium>lol ;)
16:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11135 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp: [MSU] -Fix: do not write GRFIDs as if they are signed integers.
16:14<Rubidium>I wonder whether you perform the amount of caching we do ;)
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16:15<Ammler>Rubidium / dihedral: is it possible to ask masterserver about infos of GRFs where aren't active in current game?
16:16<Ammler>or even grfcrawler
16:16<Rubidium>what info would the masterserver give you?
16:16<dihedral>Rubidium: caching is to come before i release it
16:16<Ammler>hmm, at least Name and ID
16:16<Rubidium>and it isn't going to log/query all newgrfs a client has
16:17<Ammler>hmm, its more for dihedrals script
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16:18<dihedral>why - what do you need to query the master for?
16:18<dihedral>for the viaduct thing?
16:19<Ammler>hmm, we would need infos about every GRF (file) on the server
16:20<Ammler>http://www.ppcis.org/standard/ <--- check grflist here
16:20<Ammler>its at bottom
16:20<dihedral>once a cach is in place, load up to 55 into a game, query (that then gets cached ) and load the next set
16:20<dihedral>until all is cached :-D
16:20<Rubidium>what's wrong with the viaduct thing?
16:20<Ammler>he listed all GRFs, active with green, inactive with red
16:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11136 /extra/website/server_detail.php: [Website] -Fix: for some reason PHP does not handle unsigned integers as it should.
16:22<dihedral>whats with it?
16:22<dihedral>hehe
16:22<dihedral>the server does not say which grf's are not loaded
16:22<dihedral>only the ones loaded are also mentioned in the server info
16:22<Phazorx>php has very strange concept about what inegers are... as well as any loosly typed sctripting language
16:23<Brianetta>[21:13] <Ammler> Brianetta: do you like to install python on your server? :)
16:23<Brianetta>Ammler: I wouldn't describe it as a hobby...
16:23<dihedral>lol
16:23<Phazorx>Amdish > English would you care to install....
16:23<dihedral>Brianetta: i got newgrf stuff working :-)
16:24<Brianetta>dihedral: Anything in particular?#
16:24<Ammler>Brianetta: Did you see the alpha from SpComb?
16:24<dihedral>http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/demo/OpenTTDLib-0.3tobe/example2.php
16:24<dihedral>that thing SpComb is working on is really great :-)
16:25<dihedral>yet if you use SpComb's MyOTTD you would not be able to use autopilots irc interface...
16:25<dihedral>would you?
16:25<SpComb>http://dev.myottd.marttila.de:8160/
16:25<Ammler>dihedral, your app doesn't need any additional things on Briannettas server, I guess
16:25<Brianetta>MyOTTD?
16:25<Ammler>Brianetta: yep
16:25<Brianetta>yep isn't what I was hoping for
16:25<SpComb>the two overlap quite widely, but since the autopilot's in TCL, I'll have to reimplement all the functionality in python
16:26<Brianetta>SpComb: Python has an Expect implementation
16:26<Brianetta>I originally chose Tcl because it had Expect
16:26<Ammler>Brianetta: oh, I guess, MyOTTD could also be used on a more restrictive way
16:26<SpComb>is it asynchronous?
16:27<Brianetta>Expect began as a Tcl extension, but has been ported to perl and Python
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16:27<Brianetta>It is asynchronous, yes
16:27<Brianetta>which can be a bit of a pest, frankly
16:27<SpComb>http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/daemon/main.py#L625
16:28<Brianetta>For example, you can send a command to the server from IRC with the rcon command in autopilot, but can't see the output because autopilot has no way of knowing which output was from which command.
16:28<SpComb>Brianetta: guess what I have 12,000 lines of code sitting around in spbot.irc for :)
16:29<Brianetta>heh (:
16:29<SpComb>oh, well, that way around, still
16:29<Brianetta>Feel free to rip off autopilot's features. You can directly rip the code if you're going GPL
16:29<dihedral>Ammler: i have no idea if Brianetta has php installed on his server
16:29<SpComb>the way the daemon code works is that it sends the command, and then `echo "some-unique-string"`, gathers lines until it gets the unique string, and then goes into the callback chain with those lines
16:30<Brianetta>dihedral: You should have an idea, if you ever wondered wtf ppcis.org was
16:30<dihedral>i dont really that often pay attention to thee file name endings in the location bar
16:30<Brianetta>SpComb: I use that trick once
16:30<SpComb>the callback stuff comes from Twisted
16:30<Brianetta>for the players command
16:31<dihedral>Brianetta: but i shall assume that your have php installed - but which version ?
16:31<Ammler>dihedral, #openttdcoop is on his server...
16:31<Brianetta>trouble is, autopilot is so asynchronous that if I used that trick twice, I could easily get two start markers and two stop markers, and not know which data from the intervening lines was associated with which block.
16:31<SpComb>I use it for all commands, commands(cmd, *args) returns a deferred which callbacks with a list of the lines you get out
16:32<Brianetta>autopilot has had one complete rewrite already
16:32<dihedral>Ammler: figured that in the mean tiME :-P
16:32<Brianetta>it could do with another
16:32<SpComb>I only run one command at a time, currently raise an error if there's one going on already, but if the need arises, I can simply add a queue
16:33<Brianetta>That's not a bad idea, but the server is also pumping out its own output
16:33<Brianetta>and that doesn't respect your markers
16:33<SpComb>I have the callback functions filter out stuff they don't recognize, the debug output may well sneak in between when you write echo and read the result
16:33<Brianetta>In my case, any chat lines that appear int he middle of a players command are lost.
16:33<Brianetta>Haven't seen that happen yet, but it could...
16:34<SpComb>I don't parse "events" at all yet, but the callback functions would pass any unrecognized lines to some function which extracts the events
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16:34<Brianetta>yeah
16:35<Brianetta>You've probably put more effort into extensible code than I did
16:35<dihedral>Brianetta: php4 or 5?
16:35<Ammler>dihedral: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/info.php
16:35<Brianetta>dihedral: 5 probably
16:35<SpComb>does openttd have the player command stuff in the same thread as the network stuff?
16:35<dihedral>nice
16:36<Brianetta>_SERVER["SCRIPT_FILENAME"] /home/ottdcoop/website/info.php
16:36<Brianetta>wow
16:36<Brianetta>revealing your real file locations
16:36<dihedral>Ammler: i cannot give you the 'not used' grf list, only a list of grf's which are loaded
16:36<Ammler>Brianetta: bad?
16:36<SpComb>argh, fullscreen popups on the second monitor, that's evil
16:37<Brianetta>Ammler: Depends whether there's some exploit which is made easier by knowing that
16:37<dihedral>SpComb: lol
16:37<Ammler>Brianetta: I mean, was it bad to publish that?
16:37<Brianetta>If anybody wants the source code to my standard server's web page, I'll happily send it
16:37<Brianetta>Ammler: It's your web site.
16:38<Ammler>Brianetta: but you did that handish?
16:38<Brianetta>handish?
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16:38<Brianetta>Hey Daniel
16:38<Jango>sup
16:39<Jango>hmm, it's been a while
16:39<Brianetta>Welcome back
16:39<Jango>ta
16:39<Jango>anything new?
16:39<Brianetta>Just talking about server control programs
16:40<Jango>what kind of control? what kind of servers?
16:40<Brianetta>openttd servers
16:40<Jango>i use ssh to control mine :)
16:40<Jango>ah
16:40<Jango>ok
16:40<Brianetta>SpComb seems to have thought his through rather more fully than I did mine
16:41[~]SpComb is writing something that could be used as a web interface for OpenTTD dedicated servers
16:41<Jango>what's the main requirement?
16:41<SpComb>Python
16:41<Brianetta>http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
16:42<Jango>i notice on the CIA rss feed that Rubidium is the one making all the changes recewntly
16:42<SpComb>but it's also a software-as-a-service model, so you can create your own server and run it there
16:42<Brianetta>Rubidium is the current lead maintainer, I believe
16:42<@Bjarni>http://bash.org/?36518 <-- hehe.. got to remember that one
16:42<Brianetta>Thanks, Bjarni. Now I have bash.org open in a browser.
16:42<@Bjarni>but I wonder why Dutchovia's country code is .nl
16:43<@Bjarni>Brianetta: you are welcome
16:43<Jango>that's a site i haven't been to in a while
16:43<Brianetta>Dont' go there
16:43<Brianetta>it eats time
16:43<Jango>yes
16:43<Jango>i quit facebook again yesterday too
16:43<SpComb>Brianetta: I assume that you query localhost for info like the starting date?
16:43<@Bjarni>what is facebook?
16:43<Jango>so much time wastage
16:43<SpComb>or is the start date hardcoded into the page?
16:44<Jango>a social networking site that's quite popular in uk
16:44<Jango>amongst other places
16:44<Brianetta>SpComb: The web site has the date, and that's through UDP. autopilot doesn't know about dates.
16:44<Brianetta>The web page and autopilot are separate. They only communicate, if at all, though MySQL.
16:44<SpComb>there's a getdate console command which I use, but no way to get the start date (or current climate, map size, etc) on the console
16:44<Jango>is that the most efficient way?
16:44<Brianetta>getdate is newer than 0.5
16:44<Jango>wouldn't you have to poll mysql for changes?
16:45<Brianetta>The console is lacking a great many things
16:45<Brianetta>Jango: It's a web page.
16:45<Brianetta>It polls if you refresh.
16:45<SpComb>I have a daemon process and a web process, they share a postgres db and the web process also makes HTTP requests for JSON to the daemon for quite a lot of things
16:45<Jango>but presumably the autopilot is a daemon?
16:45<Brianetta>Jango: It's a wrapper
16:45<Jango>for?
16:45<Brianetta>it runs openttd
16:45<Brianetta>parses the output, types in input
16:46<SpComb>(the daemon process spawns multiple openttd subprocesses and communicates with them all)
16:46<Brianetta>To be honest, SpComb is reawakening my interest
16:46<Rubidium>Brianetta: getdate is in (branches/)0.5
16:46<Jango>morning Rubidium
16:46<Jango>congrats
16:46<Jango>you appear to be doing a lot of work recently
16:47<Brianetta>Rubidium: Ah. Well, since I have no code that needs the date, it remains moot
16:47<Rubidium>morning?
16:47<Jango>well, soon
16:47<Rubidium>some Australian person I presume?
16:47<Jango>no, uk :)
16:47<dihedral>lo
16:47<dihedral>l
16:47<Rubidium>then morning is still far far away
16:47<Jango>i just say morning whenever
16:47<Jango>it's easier
16:47<Jango>nah, just one hour
16:47<dihedral>morning Jango :-P
16:47<Brianetta>one hour and then some
16:48<Brianetta>One h our rounded to the nearest hour
16:48<Jango>yeah, i think my clock's a bit fast
16:48<Rubidium>well, morgen maybe, but morning?
16:48<dihedral>:-P
16:48<SpComb>I use getdate for savegame names and the status info
16:48<Brianetta>That's a precision of not even 4%
16:48<Jango>heh
16:48<Jango>i work in banking - we don't do accuracy
16:48<dihedral>lol
16:48<Brianetta>accuracy != precision
16:48<@Bjarni>:D
16:49<Jango>yeah, ok :)
16:49<Jango>i fell into that one
16:49<Rubidium>oh, they certainly do
16:49<Brianetta>Banks are always precise
16:49<@Bjarni>no
16:49<Brianetta>but accuracy can be way off
16:49<Jango>however, i wasn't even accurate
16:49<Jango>hence the slackness of terms
16:49<@Bjarni>they once failed to inform me about a huge fee :(
16:50<Brianetta>That's not imprecision
16:50<Jango>it's both?
16:50<Brianetta>I bet the fee was carefully calculated to the nearest penny
16:50<SpComb>http://pub.marttila.de/p/iQAAAA <-- savegames are organized into seperate game sessions
16:50<Jango>hmm, wires crossage
16:50<@Bjarni>I had to pay 25 to be allowed to pay a bill of 69
16:51<SpComb>http://zapotekii:9160/me/servers/1/config <-- and then I parse the OpenTTD source code to generate a configuration display :P
16:51<Jango>i think that's almost illegal
16:51<@Bjarni>it is
16:51<Jango>a lot of people in uk are claiming back those kinds of fees
16:52<SpComb>* http://dev.myottd.marttila.de:8160/me/servers/1/config
16:52<@Bjarni>but I was informed once this guy had run it though the computer and stamped "paid" on the bill
16:52[~]SpComb is behind a NAT for the first time in two years :(
16:52<@Bjarni>and if I should make a fuss about it, I would have missed a lecture :(
16:52<Brianetta>http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/consistency.jpg
16:53<Brianetta>High precision, low accuracy
16:53<@Bjarni>but it was the last time I used that particular bank
16:53<dihedral>that is great Brianetta
16:54<Jango>interesting site
16:54<@Bjarni>oh and the ISP, who sent out those bills of such minor amounts... they are out of business
16:55<Brianetta>SpComb: You parse the source code?
16:55<SpComb>Brianetta: yes, to get info on patches, settings and difficulty settings
16:55<Brianetta>wow
16:55<Brianetta>I parse the config
16:55<Jango>i like the irony t-shirt
16:55<SpComb>http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/openttd/openttd.py generates a pickled python dict which is then combined with openttd.cfg by the daemon and then displayed by the web app
16:56<SpComb>so I get all the strings from the language files, min/max values, types, selectable values, etc
16:56<Brianetta>Perhaps I should finally learn Python
16:57<Brianetta>SpComb: Mine has "has joined the game" hard-coded in )-:
16:58<dihedral>Brianetta: nice
16:58<SpComb>well, I don't handle the *** events yet, but I'd probably just assume I'm running on american.lng and so on
16:59<@Bjarni>why american.lng?
16:59<@Bjarni>english.lng is default
16:59<Brianetta>I was going to make mine multi-lingual
16:59<Brianetta>It already has language files
16:59<Rubidium>SpComb: you can assume it runs with that language variable that people configured in ;)
16:59<Rubidium>you can just parse the other language files to get the correct strings :)
16:59<SpComb>does the server's language have any effect on the language of the clients?
16:59<dihedral>i am so happy i dont have to mess around with that :-)
16:59<Brianetta>SpComb: I don't believe so
17:00<SpComb>I'd rather just pick one language, run the server on that and hardcode the strings into my source
17:00<Brianetta>Actually, I started writing a Tk interface to autopilot
17:00<Brianetta>It's int eh svn
17:00<dihedral>what if you have someone who does not know english and wants to use your app?
17:00<Brianetta>it's in the svn
17:00<Brianetta>dihedral: They don't need to know English. The app does.
17:01<Brianetta>The app's own output can be internationalised.
17:01<dihedral>and how is the config then displayed :-)
17:01<Rubidium>that person has a big problem cause half of the website is in English and untranslateable
17:01<SpComb>dihedral: I mean the stuff that happens internally on the console, I could change openttd.py to use some other language file, as long as it uses the same {STRING1} {COMMA}% stuff as english
17:01<Rubidium>the configuration page at least
17:01<dihedral>k
17:01<SpComb>(changing the language in openttd.py would change what's displayed on the config editing page)
17:01<SpComb>the only hardcoded strings on there are "Difficulty" and "Difficulty level"
17:02<Rubidium>SpComb: *and* all those strings that aren't in *.lng
17:02<Rubidium>rather variable names, but still
17:03<SpComb>not very much I can do about those
17:14<Brianetta>how do you get a Cisco Certified Network Administrator off your porch?
17:14<Brianetta>pay for your pizza...
17:14<Jango>tell him that you are a CCIE?
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17:18<Sacro>Brianetta: hahaha
17:21|-|TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23<Sacro>Bjarni: do you have a mac with a tilt sensor?
17:24[~]dihedral greets Sacro
17:24[~]Sacro waves hi to dihedral
17:26[~]TrueBrain hates waving
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17:27<@Bjarni>Sacro: why do you want to know that?
17:29<@Bjarni>I'm not a tilt expert if that is what you want to know :p
17:29<Sacro>Bjarni: http://uri.cat/software/netPong/
17:29|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:30<Ailure>heh
17:30<Ailure>and to think that's used to put the head on the HD in a safe position whenever the laptop is dropped
17:30<blathijs>That was the excuse for putting it in
17:30|-|Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-58-36.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
17:31<Sacro>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Eb1Nt6WIE <- squirrels amaze me
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17:36<@Bjarni>looks like those squirrels outsmart Sacro
17:36<Sacro>yes :(#
17:37<Ailure>What kind of animal is Sacro?
17:37<@Bjarni>what kind...
17:37<Ailure>:)
17:37<@Bjarni>never really thought of that
17:37<@Bjarni>he just Sacro, our channel pet
17:37<Sacro>http://www.b3ta.com/links/HItler_Banned_From_iSketch <-- falls off chair laughing
17:39<Ailure>haha nice
17:39<Ailure>bet people start making similar spoofs though
17:40<@Bjarni>not as funny as the tetris one
17:40<Sacro>i think that;s a spoof of the x-box live one
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17:41<Eddi|zuHause3>i have seen something similar a while back...
17:42<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i think it was about xbox
17:42<Ailure>I alwayws wanted to do some kind of doom/openTTD crossover :P
17:42<Ailure>only becuse it would be so dumb
17:43<@Bjarni>http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tiq5kZZ967s <-- this one
17:44<@Bjarni>took me a while to find it... I first found it with Japanese subtitles only
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17:48<Sacro>hahaha
17:48<Sacro>the soybean
17:49<Sacro>:o
17:49<Sacro>ITS 2 BLOBS FROM DR ROBOTNIKS MEAN BEAN MACHINE :D
17:50<@Bjarni>yeah
17:51<@Bjarni>I like how he looks below his gaming device for the block, that fell though
17:51<@Bjarni>like it would fall into his lap
17:51<@Bjarni>http://youtube.com/watch?v=3UhPNUxqaOU&mode=related&search= <-- this one is.... wtf and funny at the same time... if only I could understand what they say
17:52<Phazorx>Brianetta?
17:54<@Bjarni>http://youtube.com/watch?v=mOq6KzfFiTY&mode=related&search= <--- LOL... why don't I have lectures like that? :D
17:57<Ailure>so hey I hadn't paid attention in the last 500-700 revisios or so
17:57<Ailure>and apart from autoslopes, anything new? :P
17:57<@Bjarni>yeah
17:57<@Bjarni>like 500-700 other commits
17:57<Ailure>lol
17:57<Ailure>feature-wise I mean
17:58<Ailure>I did skim through the commits, but there's lots of them :P
17:58<Ailure>So I might missed something
17:58<Eddi|zuHause3>svn log --limit 700
17:58<@Bjarni>| more
17:58<Prof_Frink>pfft, more?
17:58<Ailure>I already checked the log
17:58<@Bjarni>then why do you ask?
17:58<Ailure>Laziness
17:58<Prof_Frink>more is fail.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause3>who uses more anymore?
17:58<Ailure>:)
17:59<Eddi|zuHause3>more is so 25 row screen...
17:59<Ailure>wish I was using Linux right now
17:59<Ailure>was cursing earlier today over the limited command line in Windows
17:59<Ailure>and missed using Linux right away
18:00<Prof_Frink>Cygwin makes it suck less
18:00<@Bjarni>the only issue I have with more is that I should not resize the window while more is in progress... otherwise it works just fine and gets the job done
18:00<Prof_Frink>But I have not used Windows at home in ages
18:00<@Bjarni>http://youtube.com/watch?v=r7ttRaXlnfs&mode=related&search= <---- maybe this is our Sacro
18:01<Ailure>damn
18:01<Ailure>and I was unable to learn my grandpa to play Super Mario bros
18:01<Ailure>that's ms.pac man
18:02<Ailure>his reactionn-time have a bit to wish sometimes
18:02<Ailure>eh
18:02<Ailure>sdfsf
18:02<Ailure>mangled english
18:02<Ailure>he seems to get distracted now and then
18:03<@Bjarni>any naked girls at your place?
18:03<Ailure>when Pac Man is staring into the wall for a few seconds
18:04<@Bjarni>heh... disregard my last line... I read it as YOU were distracted now and then :P
18:05<Ailure>Well there are naked girls
18:05<Ailure>...not real ones though. :P
18:05<Sacro>naked girls?
18:05<Ailure>and they're hidden away in my computer
18:05<dihedral>well - good night ladies
18:05<dihedral>and thank you Rubidium, really appreciate you helping me out :-)
18:05<Ailure>I think they're in that truc set rofl
18:05<Ailure>just kidding
18:06<@Bjarni>dihedral: they are on Ailure's HD and can't answer you :P
18:06<Ailure>and I don't like that set D:
18:06<Ailure>yeah like
18:06<Ailure>AI
18:06<Eddi|zuHause3>miss .jpg?
18:07<Sacro>grrrr
18:07<Sacro>my new mobile has a usb port
18:07<Sacro>and no instructions on how to acutally remove the cover
18:07<Sacro>and now i think i've just bent the cover D:
18:07<Eddi|zuHause3>no problem that cannot be solved with sufficent violence
18:08<Eddi|zuHause3>Sacro: they usually call that "child protection"
18:08[~]Sacro might have to go back into the store tommorow and get a new unbent cover
18:08<Sacro>and complain for the lack of instructoins
18:10<Ailure>child protection
18:10<Ailure>so what's the danger of
18:10<Ailure>a USB port?
18:10<Ailure>it's like what
18:10<Ailure>12 volt?
18:10<Ailure>xD
18:10<@Bjarni>USB only has 5 V
18:10<@Bjarni>and max 500 mA
18:10<@Bjarni>at least if they follow the standard
18:10<Sacro>grr, this is stupid
18:10<Eddi|zuHause3>err, i think you missed the joke...
18:10<Ailure>You can probably make a zapper with a really strong capacitor
18:10<Sacro>now i have damaged my phone
18:11<Sacro>havong had it... about 8 hours
18:11<Ailure>hey
18:11<Ailure>it was worse for my dad
18:11<Ailure>he owned a phone for a whole minute
18:11<Ailure>before returning it
18:11<Ailure>saw the screen was scratched
18:12<Sacro>either way, its not suitable for purpose
18:13<Sacro>so i should be fine going back into the store tommorow
18:13<Sacro>not that i'm happy with that idea
18:13[~]Bjarni starts to wonder
18:13<@Bjarni>how did you manage to get that phone?
18:13<@Bjarni>who is looking for it right now? :P
18:14<Sacro>i bought it
18:14<@Bjarni>who is looking for his wallet then?
18:19<Eddi|zuHause3>i am looking for my wallet
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18:20<@Bjarni>then go to Hull
18:21<ln->has anyone travelled through the eurotunnel?
18:21<_Ben_>yeah...it's dark
18:22<Eddi|zuHause3>i only went by ferry (once in each direction)
18:22<@Bjarni>I never went to GB
18:25<ln->i went twice, first on finnair and about 10 years later on ryanair.
18:26<@Bjarni>I will never use Ryanair
18:26<ln->because you think they can't fly?
18:26<@Bjarni>because they sucks at cleaning the planes and crew education
18:27<@Bjarni>not to mention minimal maintenance
18:29<ln->35 passengers had refused to stay in a sterling.dk plane last week, because the air conditioning was broken and the door didn't close properly.
18:29<ln->so they exited before takeoff.
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18:30<@Bjarni>I didn't say sterling was any better :P
18:30<ln->i've flown on sterling once.
18:30<ln->and sterling is DANISH
18:32<@Bjarni>being Danish isn't always the same as being top quality
18:32<@Bjarni>we wish it to be like that, but it isn't
18:32<ln->so what is the top quality airline?
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18:32<@Bjarni>there are some good companies and then some not so good ones to spoil the reputation :(
18:32<ln->or one that is good enough for you to fly on
18:32<@Bjarni>you know... I usually go by train
18:33<ln->have you flown at all?
18:33<@Bjarni>yeah
18:33<@Bjarni>many times
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18:34<ln->out of a pub?
18:34<@Bjarni>:P
18:35<@Bjarni>I have a story about flying INTO a pub (or rather, a not so nice drinking place)
18:35<ln->so what airline have you flown on?
18:35<@Bjarni>the window was smashed and the drunk people in there called the police telling them that "somebody throws knives at us"
18:36|-|dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:37<@Bjarni>turned out that it was a diesel locomotive that malfunctioned and the power produced from braking went to the fan in the roof instead of the resistors. The fan gained speed and lifted itself up into the air and started throwing metal around
18:37<@Bjarni>oops
18:38<@Bjarni><ln-> so what airline have you flown on? <-- SAS, Maersk Air and Icelandair
18:38<@Bjarni>Icelandair is actually decent
18:38<@Bjarni>or at least it was a few years ago
18:39<Eddi|zuHause3>i went to USA in icelandair
18:39<Eddi|zuHause3>that was back in 2000
18:40<@Bjarni>I once encountered an overbooking issue with them and I was relocated to first class
18:43<Eddi|zuHause3>http://bash.org/?234970 <- muahahaha
18:43<ln->Bjarni: and after the recent events can you say SAS's maintenance is in full shape?
18:46<@Bjarni>well... Bombadier claimed the part to be durable and should live the whole lifetime of the place. The issue is that the bolt in question is inside the hydraulic system and isn't checked, so it's a flaw for all airlines owning the plane type in question "Q8-dash 400" (or something like that)
18:46<@Bjarni>I didn't claim SAS to be good either. I just said I tried to fly with them
18:48[~]ln- has flown with Finnair, SAS, Iberia, Ryanair, Spanair, Sterling, Finncomm
18:49<@Bjarni>ever considered settling down?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause3>and never once had a plae crash?
18:49[~]Belugas has flown on the wings of a dream, now he knows his father's betreat, now his wings turn to hashes his grave
18:49<@Belugas>fly
18:49<ln->not even once
18:49<@Belugas>on your waym
18:49<@Belugas>like an eagle
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18:50<Eddi|zuHause3>i don
18:50<Eddi|zuHause3>'t understand a single word Belugas says
18:50<Eddi|zuHause3>must be some kind of language barrier
18:51<@Bjarni>I do... I think
18:51<@Belugas>naaa... just the pressure's getting out
18:51<ln->Bjarni: i fly seldom..
18:51<mcbane>br glad ya didnt fly with oget turs (turkish airlines)
18:51<mcbane>*oger turs
18:51<@Belugas>in fact, it was a little part of Iron Maiden, Flight of Icarus :D
18:52<@Bjarni>mcbane: I wouldn't do that... they likely don't connect me with my destination
18:52<Eddi|zuHause3>öger!
18:52<mcbane>be glad.
18:52<mcbane>yes eddi its öger =)
18:54<mcbane>well i flew severel times with SAS and it was always quite flight (well one time we hit a storm that wasnt fun)
18:54<@Bjarni>well... since I rarely leave Scandinavia, I have little use for Turkish airlines ;)
18:54<mcbane>heh
18:54<ln->Bjarni: for example, this year i've only flown seven times, and i only have two booked flights waiting. (flight = take-off + landing, not a return trip)
18:54[~]Sacro fancies going away
18:55<@Bjarni>ln-: so far I have flown 0 times this year
18:55<@Bjarni>which is a change of 0 compared to last year
18:55<ln->Bjarni: but between years (1998,2005) i didn't fly even once.
18:56<Eddi|zuHause3>i flew once to USA, and once to Portugal
18:57<Eddi|zuHause3>and one time i did a sail-flight roundtrip
18:58<@Bjarni>ok, I have some coding to do so I will not talk about planes anymore
18:58<@Bjarni>in fact I will go to bed
18:59<@Bjarni>goodnight
18:59<SmatZ>night Bjarni
18:59<ln->"bed"
18:59<mcbane>night bjarni
18:59<@Bjarni>wow... SmatZ was lurking
19:00<@Bjarni>and I spoiled his cover :P
19:00<SmatZ>:-)
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19:10<mcbane>night
19:10|-|mcbane changed nick to nairan
19:10|-|nairan changed nick to nairan_zzZZ
19:12<Eddi|zuHause3>maybe i'm slow in getting things today, but in which way does going to bed improve the amount of coding done?
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19:15<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: tired programmer -> bad programmer :-p
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19:50<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause3, i can;t see the difference. is there a difference?
19:51<Eddi|zuHause3>the dirt is drawn over every 2nd wagon
19:51<Eddi|zuHause3>(makes them look darker)
19:56<Eddi|zuHause3>in the "after" picture
19:56<@Belugas>oh...
19:56<@Belugas>yeah...
19:56<@Belugas>like rusty wagons
19:56<+glx>like fix one glitch, it creates a new one
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19:59<SmatZ>all sprites are made for the old sprite sorter, no matter how bad it can be...
19:59<SmatZ>so many upgrades will make old sprites rendered bad :-/
19:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belugas * r11137 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add support for bit 17 of property 1A for Industries. This bit enables the protection of the last instance of an industry type once raise.
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20:04<Phazorx>ouch
20:04<Phazorx>ottd suddenly is pegging CPU
20:04<Phazorx>any way to find out why?
20:04<Phazorx>talkign about coop server
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20:18<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i got a stuck loading indicator...
20:18<Eddi|zuHause3>and it doesn't go away if i turn the setting off and on again
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21:28<Debolaz>Hoy.
21:33<Debolaz>Hrmm.. I see the licensing situation still haven't changed. :-/
21:34<ln->the what?
21:36<Debolaz>Well, last time I was looking at OpenTTD development, it turned out that the project was bound to GPLv2 which seemed to have been chosen rather arbitrarily. GPLv2 only is generally a bad choice for a project which does not have central copyright ownership over its code (Ie, here the contributors owns their own code).
21:38<ln->Changing the license would require just about every contributor's approval, right?
21:39<Debolaz>Yes, hence why it's an extremely bad idea to chose GPLv2 only, and the longer it goes the more difficult it becomes to resolve.
21:42<ln->One could also argue that there _is_ one central copyright owner, who has not given permission for releasing under any license.
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22:06<Eddi|zuHause2>and i don't see a reason to change the license
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22:10<Eddi|zuHause2>dbg: [misc] [utf8] unknown string command character 57368 <- what does that mean?
22:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i get tons of those suddenly
22:12<Eddi|zuHause2>but the cargo names are magically fixed now...
22:12<+glx>it means this character is not printable, and is not a special OTTD char either
22:18<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, but i can't find where this character appears now...
22:21|-|gfldex_ changed nick to gfldex
22:26<Eddi|zuHause2>it's somewhere in the freight overview of my ore trains, but not of my passenger trains
22:26<+glx>newgrf?
22:27<Eddi|zuHause2>lots :p
22:27<+glx>maybe some of them define strings to draw
22:27<Eddi|zuHause2>alpinew.grf most notably
22:27<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but those strings are also drawn elsewhere
22:28<+glx>and OTTD maybe doesn't handle some TTDP special chars
22:29<+glx>anyway it's late
22:29[~]glx goes to sleep
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 22 00:00:51 2007