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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-23

---Logopened Sun Sep 23 00:00:21 2007
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00:37<Phazorx>is there a way to ban by subnet in ottd ?
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02:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11146 /branches/noai/ (166 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r11035:11045.
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04:13<Nickman>hi all
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04:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11147 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#1247] (r11105): reallow bounding boxes with x/y/z-extent 0. Some NewGRFs need them. Patch by frosch.
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05:07<SpComb>there, now MyOTTD supports changing the patch settings as well
05:07<SpComb>it's a bit annoying how OpenTTD writes out the config when it quits, but stopping OpenTTD, writing it out, and then starting it again isn't such a big pain
05:10<Rubidium>SpComb: there's a command line parameter to not write the config file
05:11<Rubidium>hmm, that's only trunk it seems
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05:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11148 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Codechange: add support for getting version numbers from Mercurial/HG instead of norev000 (when using a Mercurial/HG clone that is).
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05:54<CIA-1>OpenTTD: maedhros * r11149 /trunk/src/ (macros.h newgrf_house.cpp): -Fix [FS#1225]: Draw building stages for new house ground sprites.
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06:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11150 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1202]: NewGRF action 3 does not necessarily need an action 1 to be defined. Patch by frosch.
06:09<valhallasw>is there a way to change the team of a user, server-side?
06:09<valhallasw>i.e. to force someone to be a spectator
06:09<Ammler>instead of banning him
06:10<Rubidium>not without going very complex and possibly desyncing the game (with the current binary that is)
06:11<Ammler>its something simular after bankrupt
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06:17<Ammler>Rubidium: you mean, if you only patch the server?
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06:20<blathijs>Ammler: yes
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06:22<Rubidium>well, you could try GDB magic
06:22<Rubidium>but it's likely that the client will desync and then just reconnect
06:24<SpComb>eat his money
06:24<blathijs>What's the problem with banning?
06:25<blathijs>You want him to stick around and think about what he has done? :-p
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>while you are touching that code... allow creating/joining a company from spectator mode
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06:28<Ammler>blathijs: hehe, silly
06:29<Ammler>maybe its better to have the "bad guy" in spctator mode then trying another way to join
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06:45<Prof_Frink>Ammler: And you could have a 'sin bin', stopping people building for 6 months or so
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07:30|-|mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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07:39<Ammler> <-- unreachable
07:39<Ammler>which revision is current nightly?
07:42<+glx>Ammler: even if you know the rev, you won't be able to get it
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07:44<Ammler>yeah, just realized, svn is also death
07:44<Ammler>and TrueBrain is in vacation
07:45<Ammler>does that mean, we have to wait until he returns?
07:45<Ammler>nightly builds don't run on my machine
07:46<Ammler>I need sources
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07:53<Eddi|zuHause2>there are nightly source packages
07:54<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: path? isn't
07:55<Eddi|zuHause2>how should i know... i never needed them
07:55<+glx>anyway it's unreachable
07:56<Ammler>not everything is unreachalbe
07:56<Ammler>sry, thanks
07:58<+glx>nightly files are on another server
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08:11<valhallasw>blathijs: the problem with banning is that there are no ban messages
08:12<valhallasw>generally, we want to force people who are not on the IRC channel to spectate
08:12<blathijs>So someone doesn't know he's banned and why?
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08:13<blathijs>Wouldn't it be a better solution to add a ban messag then?
08:13<valhallasw>well, banning because someone is not on irc is kinda stupid
08:13<blathijs>Or just use normal chat to tell someone why he is being banned, just before doing so?
08:13<blathijs>ah yes, I see
08:13<valhallasw>autopilot can do that (:
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08:14<valhallasw>and as the irc banning options are more extensive than openttds... :)
08:14<valhallasw>(and does banning prevent someone from spectating?)
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08:15<valhallasw>oh great, but SVN is down so devving is out of the question :P
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08:17<Prof_Frink>valhallasw: Sounds like an excellent time to learn git/mercurial/vcs-of-the-day
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08:20<+glx>Prof_Frink: they are down too ;)
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08:24<Prof_Frink>How fail.
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08:28<Ammler>glx: those source packs seems to be not the same as the builds, after compiling, I get the revision 11101M
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08:30<+glx>latest is 11139
08:30<+glx>you extracted it in your svn dir?
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08:32<Ammler>glx: yes
08:32<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: it still takes the revision number from you last svn update
08:33<Ammler>and I also compiled it in its own dir
08:33<Ammler>Is Truelight the onlyone who can admin the server?
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08:34<Ammler>you should really think about transfer it to sourceforge
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08:36<unknown>where can i get the latest nightly, now the webserver seems to be down?
08:37<+glx>unknown: platform?
08:37<unknown>Ammler: thanks
08:37<Ammler>would be nice if not redirected to www
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08:38<+glx> <-- even better
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08:42<Ammler>glx: yeah, thats a good workaround :)
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08:44<Ammler>where can I see the revision in the source?
08:45<+glx>it's in src/rev.cpp, but only after configure, and needs svn to get it
08:45<+glx>unless you tell it as a configure arg
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08:46<Ammler>so i can just take --revision=r11139 ?
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08:47<Ammler>:( server doesn't start anymore..., I quit
08:48<Ammler>do we really to wait until Truelight comes back?
08:49<valhallasw>well... yes
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09:03<Eddi|zuHause2>this thgerg* thing is already going on for weeks...
09:03<Eddi|zuHause2>it's getting old...
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09:29<Sacro>can someon+b him?
09:30<ln->Bjarni can!
09:31<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, please
09:31|-|thgergo [] has joined #openttd
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09:32<Sacro>thgergo: either a) fix your internet, or b) DISABLE AUTOJOIN
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09:34<Sacro>@seen thg*
09:34<@DorpsGek>Sacro: thgergo was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <thgergo> !password
09:34<Sacro>Bjarni: requesting +b on therg*
09:35<Sacro>thgerg* even
09:35<Amix>i just love the trams :)
09:35<Amix>especially goods trams
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09:36<Sacro>thgerg2: QUIT SPAMMING THE CHANNEL
09:36<Amix>his ip can be the reason aswell Sacro
09:36<hylje>Sacro: /ignore #openttd joins quits nicks parts
09:37<Sacro>hylje: i don't like to do that
09:37<Amix>ignore, heh
09:37<hylje>you won't be missed
09:37<hylje>but really, given a sane irc client it should deal with annoying crap
09:38|-|thgerg1 [] has joined #openttd
09:39<ln->Bjarni: wake up
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09:42<Amix>you have to get into his dreams and wake him up ;p but thats a hard task i guess :)
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09:43<@Bjarni>what's going on here?
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09:44<@Bjarni>so you want me to ban a guy because he has an unstable connection?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause2>Bjarni: thgerg* is timing out every 4 minutes
09:45|-|Tefad_ changed nick to Tefad
09:45<ln->Bjarni: exactly
09:45<Tefad>i've been banned for that before
09:45<Tefad>back when i had dialup and/or bpl
09:45<Eddi|zuHause2>while the network timeout is 8 minutes...
09:46|-|thgerg2 [] has joined #openttd
09:46<@Bjarni>you mean he times out faster than the network would kick him?
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09:47<@Bjarni>thgerg2: why are you so unstable?
09:47<@Bjarni>well.. I guess you already asked this
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09:48<ln->just ban him to get rid of this constant spam
09:48|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*Thiering_@*] by Bjarni
09:48|-|mode/#openttd [+nt] by ChanServ
09:48<AmiXwoktest>my goods tram
09:48<@Bjarni>where did the +n and +t come from?
09:49<AmiXwoktest>+t is title
09:49<Rubidium>ChanServ rebooting
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09:51<Tefad>+n means people outside the channel aren't permitted to send messages into the channel
09:51<Eddi|zuHause2>[2007-09-23 16:48] *** ChanServ setzt den Kanalmodus auf "keine Nachrichten von außerhalb".
09:51<Eddi|zuHause2>[2007-09-23 16:48] *** ChanServ schaltet den Topic-Schutz ein.
09:52<Tefad>IRC started off without channels. the owner of the server was the operator..
09:52<@Bjarni>huh.. that last screenshot... why is there a black triangle to the left?
09:52<@Bjarni>looks like a jet plane shadow, but too dark to be a shadow
09:52<AmiXwoktest>which one?
09:52<+glx>map border Bjarni
09:52<@Bjarni>not that one :P
09:53<AmiXwoktest>because of menus
09:53<@Bjarni>the small one on the trees
09:53<AmiXwoktest>they are a bit screwed up in latest nightly build
09:53<Sacro>there is another at Larningpool Falls West
09:53<Tefad>the aliens have taken over
09:54<@Bjarni>that's a secret
09:54<@Bjarni>don't tell about our invasion plans
09:54<AmiXwoktest>its the tram alien ;p
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09:55<@Bjarni>I kind of feel sorry for thgerg
09:56<@Bjarni>remind me to unban him in a few hours
09:56<@Bjarni>I have nothing against banning trolls and stuff like that, but this guy... he is not even trying to be mean at all
09:57<Tefad>wait for him to come back
09:57<Tefad>then kick/ban him with a reason
09:57<Tefad>so he'll have some clue
09:57<Tefad>or leave him a friendly PM ; )
09:58<ln->Bjarni: if you unban him, the same thing is likely to continue.
09:58<ln->and ffs, the last time he spoke anything was a week ago.
10:00<Sacro>and that was !password
10:00<Sacro>i think we should cull all uses who haven't spoken in a week
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10:00<SmatZ>hello all
10:01<Sacro>you see
10:01<Sacro>we need people who enter the channel and say "hello"
10:01<Sacro>hello Sm
10:01<Sacro>hello SmatZ
10:01<SmatZ>hello Sacro
10:01<SmatZ>it was a nice weekend...
10:01<SmatZ>Monday tommorow
10:02<Eddi|zuHause2>you also have monday tomorrow?
10:02<Eddi|zuHause2>what a coincidence...
10:03<Sacro>we have montag
10:03<SmatZ>we have pondeli :-p
10:03<Rubidium>Sacro: that's not a valid English word.
10:04<Rubidium>nor a correctly written German word.
10:04<Sacro>oh yes
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10:28<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i have a feeling the freight train multiplyer has no effect anymore...
10:29<AmiXwoktest>tokai: latest nigtly build runs, but I get "Error: Could not allocate memory for the group-sorting-list" when clicking the train icon.
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i have now set a multiplier of 50, and my single BR 85 still climbs multiple slopes with 20 ore wagons as if they were filled with feathers
10:32<AmiXwoktest>does anyone else get tramsets to work with newest nightly build?
10:41<mcbane>what is newest for ya?
10:41<mcbane>sat 20:00 compiled?
10:42<AmiXwoktest>the newest on
10:42<AmiXwoktest>under nightly
10:43<+glx>newest is not a version :)
10:43<+glx>should be r11139
10:44<AmiXwoktest>but i am using morphos
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10:54<@Bjarni>AmiXwoktest: now you killed the channel with such an outstanding statement o_O
10:55<@Bjarni>"Error: Could not allocate memory for the group-sorting-list" <-- looks like you ran out of memory. For some reason malloc failed to allocate the needed memory
10:57<Sacro>i might have my Sparc box soon :D
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11:01<Sacro>huge a***nal fan
11:01<Sacro>i <3 overzealous filtering
11:02<hylje>you just had to look that up, did you not?
11:04<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: i have 512mb of ram
11:04<AmiXwoktest>earlier nightly worked
11:04<AmiXwoktest>but it works
11:05<Sacro>hylje: i know the scunthorpe problem well, got kicked from many a channel because of it :(
11:05<AmiXwoktest>until you want to see the list of your trains
11:05<Sacro>hence i usually call it scunny
11:07<Sacro>i just found my stepsister on a dating site
11:08<Prof_Frink>How rural.
11:08<hylje>date her!
11:09<Tefad>Sacro: pooper.
11:09<@Bjarni>Sacro: contact her and she will start to look for women :P
11:11[~]Bjarni wonders how Sacro figured out who the person behind the nick really is
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11:12<@Bjarni>any naughty ones? :P
11:14<Sacro>no :(
11:14<@Bjarni>then it's useless
11:14<@Bjarni>it would have been interesting to keep such pics until you need to blackmail her for something
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11:15<AmiXwoktest>its like that in all nightly builds it seems
11:16<AmiXwoktest>in 0.5.3 its all fine
11:16<@Bjarni>0.5.3 should be fine
11:16<@Bjarni>it's a stable release ;)
11:16<+glx>0.5.3 doesn't have groups
11:16<@Bjarni>that too
11:17<AmiXwoktest>i just havent clicked on the train or bus icon in nightly builds before
11:17<Eddi|zuHause2>that might be an explanation :p
11:17<@Bjarni>AmiXwoktest: do you have svn?
11:17<AmiXwoktest>so now i found out the bug
11:17<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: svn?
11:17<@Bjarni>I take that as a no
11:17<AmiXwoktest>what is svn?
11:18<+glx>AmiXwoktest: try disabling advanced vehicle list
11:18<@Bjarni>AmiXwoktest: <-- have fun figuring out which one it starts to fail in :P
11:18<AmiXwoktest>in patches?
11:18<@Bjarni>but do as glx says first
11:18<@Bjarni>as it might be simpler and faster to do
11:19<+glx>19th line in Interface tab
11:19<AmiXwoktest>glx: in interface?
11:19<AmiXwoktest>or where?
11:19<+glx>the first tab in patches settings
11:20<+glx>anyway it may be a gcc 2.95 bug
11:20<AmiXwoktest>cant find it
11:21<@Bjarni>even if it's a gcc bug, it would be nice to get rid of this issue (if possible)
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11:22<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: i didnt have same problem in osx
11:23<AmiXwoktest>but then osx version got other problems ;p
11:23<@Bjarni>that really sounds like an MorphOS issue (or gcc 2.95 issue)
11:24<AmiXwoktest>glx: where is the disabling advanced vehicle?
11:25<AmiXwoktest>lets try then
11:25<+glx>19th line :)
11:25<AmiXwoktest>then it works
11:26<@Bjarni>since it appears to be a MorphOS issue, we should make tokai take a look
11:26<AmiXwoktest>glx: i didnt look at the arrows,.. thinking not of them
11:27<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: but i dont really like the new box. seen it in osx version.
11:27<AmiXwoktest>just my view
11:28<@Bjarni>the question if you like it or not isn't really the issue. The question if the game crashes or not is
11:30<@Bjarni>AmiXwoktest: post a bug report
11:31<@Bjarni>we will need to look at this issue.... no crashes allowed ;)
11:31<@Bjarni>leave those to other projects
11:32<AmiXwoktest>this is the message i get when clicking the train, bus, boat or flight icon
11:32<AmiXwoktest>when turning off the new interface, it works
11:32<@Bjarni>don't tell me. Tell the bug report :p
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12:07<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, is this a newindustries, newcargos or general newgrf bug? i just got offered a food truck, but there is no food in this game
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12:15<_minime_>could be the grf
12:17<AmiXwoktest>i deleted all of the extra grfs
12:17<AmiXwoktest>and still it came up with the same error
12:17<Eddi|zuHause2>he was talking to me...
12:17<+glx>AmiXwoktest: your problem seems to be Morphos specific
12:18<_minime_>it's up to the grf what vehicles it provides for each climate, so that would be the first place i'd look
12:18<gfldex>still DB set Eddi?
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12:20<AmiXwoktest>glx: oki
12:20<mcbane>hmm cia is soo silent =%
12:21<Prof_Frink>svn is down.
12:21<+glx>no it's fixed
12:21<Eddi|zuHause2>gfldex: the dbset does not change any trucks :p
12:21<Prof_Frink>svn is not down.
12:21<mcbane>2 weeks no commits then?!
12:22<+glx>no there were commits yesterday
12:22<+glx>and even today
12:22<+glx>and in last week too
12:23<mcbane>11:05 today OpenTTD
12:23<mcbane>Commit by rubidium :: r11150 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp:
12:23<mcbane>-Fix [FS#1202]: NewGRF action 3 does not necessarily need an action 1 to be defined. Patch by frosch.
12:24<+glx>that's the latest commit
12:25<mcbane>it was today
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12:49<Eddi|zuHause2>who is in charge of newcargos? it appears like the ion ore in alpine climate is not counted as freight, but as passengers, so the freight multiplier does not get applied to it.
12:50<+glx>theorically OTTD does what the grf says
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>i don't have the patch to doublecheck
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13:09<Wolf01>could somebody translate this text for a friend of mine? "Bitte benutze den Bedankokaten um den Text sehen zu können."
13:11<Eddi|zuHause2>"use the Thank-You-O-Mat to view the text"
13:11<Wolf01>thank you :)
13:11<ln->is that "zu" necessary there?
13:11<ln->and wtf is a Thank-You-O-Mat?
13:11<Wolf01>a forum function
13:12<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: usually a link at the bottom of the first post
13:13<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: to avoid hundreds of posts of the form "thank you for this <whatever>", you get a list: "these people have thanked the author: A, B, XYZ, Blah"
13:14<ln->makes some sense
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13:20<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: about the "zu", "um [...] zu können" is a typical example of a "erweiterter Infinitiv mit zu"
13:21<@Bjarni>AmiXwoktest: how is it going with that bug report?
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13:21<AmiXwoktest>i havent regged
13:21<AmiXwoktest>i will though
13:21<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: is there some situation where "zu" isn't used in front of auxiliary verbs, or am i completely mistaken?
13:22<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm not sure what you refer to as "auxiliary verb"
13:23<Eddi|zuHause2>keep in mind, i am a native speaker, i just do The Right Thing(tm)
13:24<Eddi|zuHause2>ln-: yes, but i do not see the connection to the phrase here (or how it could be formulated differently without "zu")
13:25<ln->ok, not that particular sentence, no.
13:25<hylje>zug zug
13:26<Eddi|zuHause2>Zehn zahme Ziegen zogen zehn Zentner Zucker zur Zeitzer Zuckerfabrik.
13:27<@Bjarni>heh... nice sentence
13:27<SmatZ>ln- do you mean something like "Ich will es machen" x "Ich gehe dort etwas zu machen"? I hope nothing is wrong with those sentences :)
13:27<@Bjarni>in Z mol :)
13:28<Eddi|zuHause2>SmatZ: the 2nd one could use some improvement ;)
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13:29<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause2: sorry :(
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13:31<Eddi|zuHause2>but again that supports my point of view, this has nothing to do with auxiliary verbs (as "machen" is the main verb, "wollen" -> "ich will" is an auxiliary verb)
13:31<@Bjarni>fish... it was a sugar factory, not fish factory :P
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause2>how did you get the idea it was about fish?
13:34<Eddi|zuHause2>the one about fish goes like:
13:35<Eddi|zuHause2>Fischers Fritze fischt frische Fische, frische Fische fischt Fischers Fritze.
13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>there are more of those...
13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>Blaukraut bleibt Blaukraut und Brautkleid bleibt Brautkleid. [usually said 3 times fast]
13:38<svippy>"Er det det det er?"
13:38<svippy>IT sounds like... "Er det DDR?"
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>that is not a "Zungenbrecher" [tongue-breaker?]
13:39<svippy>That's "Rødgrød med fløde."
13:39<Maedhros>Eddi|zuHause2: tongue-twister :)
13:47<ln->which one is more interesting, Hannover or Hamburg?
13:48<Eddi|zuHause2>Hamburg has the model trains ;)
13:51<ln->hannover appears to be in niedersachsen
13:51<Eddi|zuHause2>i have never been in either city
13:52<ln->i've been to both, in hannover i've even spent a few days. hamburg was more like airport <-> hauptbahnhof.
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14:11<ln->but, another thing; does someone want to recommend a quality motherboard with the following specs: 3xPCI slot, nforce chipset, preferably integrated graphics?
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14:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11151 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add (partial) support for randomizing industry triggers (part of the backend for it). Furthermore update the documentation of the map's bits wrt to industries.
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14:53<@Bjarni>right now the news are talking about how everybody are using youtube
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14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11152 /trunk/src/ (4 files):
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: GetIndustryIDAtOffset crashed when translation of the GFX ID would be needed. Fix by Belugas.
14:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix: GetIndustryIDAtOffset crashed when the industry->xy tile was not an industry tile.
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15:20<Maedhros>is that Carol Vorderman?
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15:21<Prof_Frink>Sounds like
15:21<boekabart>it.... disappears!?!?
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15:29<@Bjarni>looks like it
15:30<@Bjarni>ln-: how do you manage to find videos like that?
15:30<@Bjarni>do you search for emergency landing and disintegrating planes?
15:31<ln->the first one i found just by searching for "boeing 777", the second one someone pasted as a response to my first url.
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15:33<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: The purpose of youtube is to find videos of boomy things
15:33<@Bjarni>it is?
15:33<Prof_Frink>My favourite being
15:34<Prof_Frink>Much boomeration
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15:40<@Bjarni>that last explosion... the shockwave that went through the ground made sheds and stuff collapse in a nearby town
15:40<@Bjarni>I can't remember how many km it was from the blast, but it was a pretty decent distance
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15:42<@Bjarni> <-- you mean that I use youtube wrong when I find videos like that?
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15:44<@Bjarni> <-- LOL... sounds so odd
15:44<Prof_Frink> At Las Vegas's McCarran International Airport seven miles (11 km) away, windows were cracked and doors were pushed open. A Boeing 737 on final approach was buffeted by the shock wave.
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15:49<@Bjarni>this is hilarious... British locomotives speaking Japanese... it just sounds SO wrong XD
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15:54<@Bjarni> <--- hehe... real life railroad oops :P
15:55<@Bjarni>anybody interested in an explanation of why this happened?
15:56<Rubidium>they put the train in neutral ;)
15:57|-|Grey [] has joined #openttd
15:57<@Bjarni>actually they did a full reverse when they tried to get it free
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15:59<Tefad>plow's stuck pretty good, heh
15:59<@Bjarni>the thing is they delivered a great deal of force to the snow. The pressure increased and snow under high pressure melts, so when the train was stopped by the snow, the pressure decreased and the melted snow froze again, gluing the snowplow to the huge pile of snow
16:00<Tefad>compressed snow at that
16:00<Tefad>like a block of ice
16:00<@Bjarni>yeah... something like that
16:00<@Bjarni>and the snowplow was in the middle of it :P
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16:12<AmiXwoktest>autosave is also broken i think
16:13<Eddi|zuHause2>AmiXwoktest: nobody here has morphos to test...
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16:13<AmiXwoktest>i have
16:14<AmiXwoktest>how do i dissable autosave function?
16:14<Eddi|zuHause2>in the settings menu
16:14<Eddi|zuHause2>autosave interval: 1/3/12 months or never
16:16<Rubidium>AmiXwoktest: what version are you playing with?
16:19<AmiXwoktest>11125 now
16:19<AmiXwoktest>Eddi|zuHause2: settings menu?
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16:20<+glx>game options
16:21<AmiXwoktest>screenshot saving works
16:21<AmiXwoktest>but saving dosent
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16:24<Rubidium>so MorphOS is fairly broken in the current nightlies?
16:24<Rubidium>(read: unusable)
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16:25<+glx>too much c++ for gcc 2.95 ;)
16:25<Rubidium>nah, probably the search paths patch acting up for MorphOS
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16:26<@Bjarni>search paths wouldn't explain the group window crash
16:26<+glx>there's also a problem with advanced vehicle list
16:26<@Bjarni>*group vehicle window
16:26<Rubidium>though that GUI doesn't use any fancy C++ things
16:27<Rubidium>if MallocT is broken, then OTTD wouldn't even start
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16:27<Rubidium>or it's MallocT-ing a size 0 array
16:27|-|Grey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:28<Rubidium>but that's only a thing someone with programming experience *and* a running MorphOS machine can tell us I think
16:28<@Bjarni>I only know one person that could fit that description
16:30<@Bjarni>so we should make two bug reports and assign them to tokai. It's likely that he is the only one who is able to figure out what goes wrong
16:30<@Bjarni>tokai: are you here right now? :)
16:31<AmiXwoktest>this is how openttd is structured
16:31<Eddi|zuHause2>'Michael Mittermeier: [... big dramatic excourse about wrecked enterprise ...] "and there is only one guy who can fix that." - Guy in audience: "MacGuyver!" - Michael Mittermeyer: "MacGuyver... He couldn't even get apprentice at Scotty."'
16:31<AmiXwoktest>in mos
16:32<AmiXwoktest>openttd have an .info icon aswell, which is the icon file
16:33<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, that's right. MacGuyver is fiction so he can't fix anything
16:34<@Bjarni>Enterprise on the other hand... it's in the future. You can't prove that it will not happen :P
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16:35[~]Bjarni considers the odds for a real faster than light Enterprise to be pretty close to zero though
16:35<Eddi|zuHause2>mathmaticians have no real problems with odds close to zero :p
16:36<@Bjarni>neither have I
16:37<Prof_Frink>It's aways fun listening to trekkies explaining how the Enterprise works
16:37<Prof_Frink>It's even more fun to slap them with a big sign saying "It's not real!"
16:38<@Bjarni>if 1:10.000.000 car will explode every year, then odds are that it will eventually happen because there are so many cars and a whole lot of years. If you pick a particular car (like your own), it's highly unlikely that it will be the one to explode though
16:38<ln->it is!
16:38<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Or, to put it another way, it's millions-to-one that a given ticket will win the lottery
16:38<Prof_Frink>But most weeks, someone does
16:39<@Bjarni>yeah, that too
16:39<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: try to ask trekkies if jedi knights can use the force to shut down a warp core
16:40<Prof_Frink>"zomg, the Force isn't real"
16:40<@Bjarni>I should try to ask such a question myself :D
16:40<@Bjarni>would be interesting
16:40<Prof_Frink>"Oh god, what have I been doing with my life?"
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>that's why a face recognition system that works correct 99% of the time is useless, because at an airport with 100.000 passengers, that means 1000 false alarms each day
16:40<@Bjarni>damn, I missed the sci-fi convention this weekend... I should have showed up and asked questions like that
16:41<mcbane>wow lowes nightly rev server i saw in the list is r9978 =P
16:42<Prof_Frink>Or, just point out that one Star Destroyer could wipe out most of starfleet
16:48<Eddi|zuHause2>starwars guys couldn't hit an open barn door
16:49<@Bjarni>a powerplant with an uptime of 99,9% is actually pretty bad because it would mean that it has a downtime of 8,7 hours every year. People wouldn't accept that ;)
16:50<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause2: As Obi-wan says "Only imperial stormtroopers are this precise". wtf was he on about?
16:50<Vikthor>Bjarni: I would say average powerplant has even greater downtime a year
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16:51<@Bjarni>I'm not talking about planned downtime where it's planned that another turbine or powerplant takes over
16:51<@Bjarni>I'm talking about the "oops, now we unexpectedly lost power" uptime
16:52<@Bjarni>or downtime
16:52<Vikthor>Bjarni: Even if its not planned downtime you can get away thanks to grid
16:52<AmiXwoktest>now i found out why i couldnt save
16:52<@Bjarni>read only access?
16:52<AmiXwoktest>forgot to add save dir
16:52<mcbane>switched it off?
16:52<@Bjarni>you have to manually add a savedir?
16:52<Tyr_Arcana>hi all, need some help with a bug
16:52<+glx>openttd creates it
16:53<@Bjarni>shouldn't that be created automatically?
16:53<AmiXwoktest>but the save dir isnt with nightly builds
16:53<@Bjarni>Tyr_Arcana: you name it and we will create it :P
16:53<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: yes, but only when save dir is present
16:53<+glx>AmiXwoktest: there's an empty save dir in morphos releases?
16:54<AmiXwoktest>in the morphos releases, there are no save dir
16:54<AmiXwoktest>glx: look at the screenshot
16:54<+glx>I mean in 0.5.3
16:54<@Bjarni>OpenTTD should create the directories it needs when it opens
16:54<Tyr_Arcana>hehe, well, its a bug I've seen in nightlies, but not in 0.5.2 or .3
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16:55<@Bjarni>Tyr_Arcana: that sounds like a new bug but we need more info than that if we should fix it
16:55<Tyr_Arcana>the scroll arrows on scrollbars and dropdowns are replaced with flags, and the resize handle is an oversized black blob, which hangs out beyond the edges of the windows and messes up the landscape
16:56<Tyr_Arcana>this on ppc osx 10.4.9 with r111118 and last nights nightly, probably other nightlies too but not checked
16:56<Tyr_Arcana>and I haven't tried compiling my own version either yet
16:57<+glx>you mixed openttd.grf files
16:57<@Bjarni>interesting revision number
16:57<+glx>check the console, it must tell something about missing or corrupted file
16:57<@Bjarni>it's from the future
16:57<Tyr_Arcana>lol, its some number of 1's lol, can't be bothered to count =)
16:57<Prof_Frink>Quite a long way in the future
16:57<Prof_Frink>Hopefully after 1.0
16:58<Tyr_Arcana>I don't think I mixed up grf's... just downloaded it, and supplied the same set of original ttd grf's that the stock release wanted
16:58<Tyr_Arcana>I def didn't copy anything from 0.5.2 into the nightly's folder
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16:59<@Bjarni>I don't think it's a mixup either. I placed the openttd grf files inside the bundle so the enduser shouldn't be bothered with this. Updating is just a drag-n-drop and that's it... no need to look at the data stuff or lng
16:59<+glx>but it looks like you overwritten openttd.grf from the nightly with an older one
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17:00[~]Bjarni tries the revision in question
17:01<Tyr_Arcana>ah, you're right... the folder I was dragging in does have a copy of openttd.grf in it, well spotted
17:01<@Bjarni>ok, maybe I don't have to test it :P
17:01<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: are you the main coder of OpenTTD?
17:02<Tyr_Arcana>I must confess, I got the data files as a bundle from a friend, not actually owning my own copy of the original ttd, I guess he just gave me his data folder instead of just the files I needed
17:02<+glx>the main for OSX :)
17:02<+glx>Tyr_Arcana: put the 6 needed files in a .tar
17:03<Tyr_Arcana>well you've done a nice job of the port so far btw, runs nicely on my 300mhz g3 iBook (tangerine clamshell)
17:04<AmiXwoktest>Bjarni: i dont know if you hate symbian or not. but does SDL programs work on Nokia N95 or E90 etc? And would OpenTTD be ported to them? How about Nintendo DS?
17:04<@Bjarni>I tested it on my beige G3 (that is until I decided to discontinue support for 10.2). It was playable
17:04<+glx>and for the nightlies you don't have to put ttd files in the same place you installed it
17:04<@Bjarni>NIntendo DS.... that reminds me of Alex_fili
17:04<Tyr_Arcana>you don't? where d'they look then?
17:05<+glx>Bjarni should know where ottd searchs for files ;)
17:05<@Bjarni>Tyr_Arcana: Documents/OpenTTD/Data
17:05<@Bjarni>read the docs
17:05<@Bjarni>that I have yet to actually write :P
17:05<@Bjarni>at least I don't think I wrote it anywhere yet
17:05<Tyr_Arcana>well, I did notice that it was saving in there
17:06<+glx>once the ttd files are there, you can have as many nightlies version as you want without having to move/copy ttd files
17:07<@Bjarni>it's a directory common to all your own OpenTTD installs so if you like me have several binaries, you can just place all the newgrf files in there and they can all find them... much easier than giving each app their own set
17:07<Tyr_Arcana>neat, I shall, thanx
17:07<@Bjarni>also you can just drop the game app where you want as it will no longer write files to the same directory
17:08<@Bjarni>say you can drop it in Applications if you like and all users can access it, but each user will have his own config and savegames
17:08<Tyr_Arcana>thats cool
17:08<@Bjarni>well... it should work, but I didn't actually test it
17:08<Tyr_Arcana>of course, thats how all apps *should* behave, but still nice
17:08<@Bjarni>maybe I should
17:09<@Bjarni><Tyr_Arcana> of course, thats how all apps *should* behave <-- it's not how 0.5.3 behaves. It's a new feature for nightly builds
17:10<Tyr_Arcana>yeah, but it'll be in 0.6 I'm sure
17:10<@Bjarni>if you drop a config next to the game app, then it will use that one instead of the one in the docs directory... I really should write how this behaves
17:10<+glx>I hope we won't revert the changes we made for this feature ;)
17:10<@Bjarni>someday before 0.6.0 :P
17:10<Tyr_Arcana>btw, to all of you guys who've been writing this wonderful game, thank you. I only found it a week ago, and have been playing virtually 24/7 ever since
17:11<Tyr_Arcana>kinda annoying actually, I should have been packing to move back to uni =P
17:12<@Bjarni>I talked to a guy at uni, who said that the only game he had on his iBook was OpenTTD... if he filled it with games, then he would spend too much time on it
17:12<@Bjarni>plan didn't work perfectly :P
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17:12<Tyr_Arcana>yeah... I can see why that would be hehe
17:13<Tyr_Arcana>I nearly had the same problem with freeciv, but thankfully their ai is so annoying that the game got boring before it was addictive
17:13<Tyr_Arcana>not that the openttd's ai is much better, but at least there's a lot of fun to be had single player (or coop)
17:16<@Bjarni>single player freeciv without any AI :P
17:17<Tyr_Arcana>yeah, but civilisation is about more than building, its about trade and competetion... the other players add more to the game than they do here, or at least it seems so to me
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17:18<@Bjarni>if you are cool (and the level is not too tough), you can do without trading inventions and stuff and just conquer the other towns right away
17:19<Tyr_Arcana>true... still, ttd wins imvho =)
17:20<Tyr_Arcana>btw, anyone know of a decent osx irc client?
17:20<@Bjarni>I once tried that in civ 1 on emperor. I started with the wheel (or invented it right away, can't remember) and then I flooded with my new fast unit. All civilizations was on the same (but big) island, so we never really got out of the stoneage before I was the sole survivor
17:20<@Bjarni>I had to try it, but it wasn't that much fun as I expected it to be
17:21<@Bjarni><Tyr_Arcana> btw, anyone know of a decent osx irc client? <-- I use Xchat. It gets the job done
17:21<@Bjarni>never really tried anything else though
17:21<Prof_Frink>There is only One True IRC client
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17:22<Tyr_Arcana>ok, I'm using xirc now, but it keeps nagging me to buy it, and the interface is kinda... meh
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17:22<@Bjarni>I hate when software do that
17:22<@Bjarni>and people, who wants money out of hard working students
17:22<@Bjarni>IRC+hard working student.... rare :P
17:23<Prof_Frink>Or rather
17:24<Prof_Frink>hard working + student = rare
17:24<@Bjarni>well, I AM rare... I know
17:24<@Bjarni>in fact, I'm unique
17:24<Tyr_Arcana>lol, well, I'm only here to talk to ppl about openttd lol, not been on irc in a decade otherwise
17:24<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: Get back on the grill then
17:25<@Bjarni>no way
17:25<@Bjarni>that thing is hot
17:25<Prof_Frink>That's the idea
17:25<Prof_Frink>Don't worry, it's not for too long
17:26<Prof_Frink>Just to get you medium-rare
17:27<@Bjarni>dude.... the grill is full of coolant from the engine.... you are not supposed to mess with it
17:31<ln->Bjarni: Which one is your favorite turtle?
17:31<@Bjarni>the one to the right
17:32<@Bjarni>what kind of question if that???
17:32<ln->A confusing one?
17:33<@Bjarni>not only that
17:33<@Bjarni>it's a wtf one
17:33<@Bjarni>are you drunk or high or something?
17:33<Tyr_Arcana>that it is, but I'm new here, so didn't feel like saying that =)
17:34<@Bjarni>I still have no idea what he meant by that question
17:34<@Bjarni>ln-: are you on some sort of medication?
17:34<ln->Coca-Cola® Zero.
17:35<@Bjarni>maybe you should switch to something else
17:35<@Bjarni>or stop completely
17:38<Tyr_Arcana>hmm.. anyways, thanx for the help with that little problem of mine, take care and such, I'm off for the night methinks
17:38<ln->Besides, it's a completely normal question.
17:39<@Bjarni>then explain your question
17:39<@Bjarni>bye Tyr_Arcana
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17:43<ln->Sacro: Which one is your favorite turtle?
17:47<@Bjarni>don't ask him such tricky questions
17:47<@Bjarni>his head might explode
17:48<@Bjarni>and then people expect the op to clean up and I'm pretty sure TrueBrain didn't code DorpsGek to do it
17:49<@Bjarni>I would have, but I tend to do stuff differently
17:55<@Bjarni><sac|metal|werk> anyway, star wars is real and star trek is some made up bs
17:55<@Bjarni>I disagree
17:55<@Bjarni>it's the other way around
17:55<Eddi|zuHause2>it's all real!!!
17:56<Tefad>they're both too goofy to actually work.
17:57<Eddi|zuHause2>noooooo!!! *head explodes*
17:58<Tefad>ur hed asplode?
17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>sorry, i can't go down to that level of spelling...
17:59<@Bjarni>I still wonder what you tried to say
17:59<Nite>sry but anti matter is real as used in starship enterprise ;p
18:00<Nite>while star wars i a simple farytale - prince saves princess and homeland story ...
18:01<ln->star wars holiday special
18:01<Eddi|zuHause2>now you want to tell me Lord of the Rings is not real either...
18:01<Nite>is there such a thing as unreal?
18:02<Nite>its a real fantasy story
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it's a game
18:02<Nite>still its a real game!
18:02<Nite>real is shallow word ..
18:02<Nite>(we all know it ;) )
18:03<@Bjarni><W-ll-am> well its nearly working
18:03<@Bjarni><BoltBait> You are aware, code that ALMOST works looks NOTHING like the code that ACTUALLY works.
18:03<@Bjarni><W-ll-am> dont tell me that, its due tomorrow
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18:05<@Bjarni>I once had to write an app in C, but I didn't have anything but notepad when I wrote it (don't ask). I wrote those 3 pages of code and once I was done, I could move it to a computer with a compiler and it just worked
18:06<@Bjarni>not even a typo
18:06<@Bjarni>and nobody ever found any bugs in it
18:06<Nite>*thinks of world without software bugs*
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18:07<Eddi|zuHause2>THAT is not real :p
18:07<@Bjarni>and then the dream ended
18:07<@Bjarni><Nite> *thinks of world without software bugs* <--- well.... the stoneage would be just right for you :P
18:08<Nite>im not even dreaming bout it - was a elusive thought
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18:09<ln->have you people noticed that software is in control of our lives already?
18:10<Nite>nothign special about it we always used tools to survive - be it a slingshot or computer
18:11<ln->i've encountered way too many things over here... things that have changed to worse, not because of a change of policy, but because "the new software doesn't support this and that".
18:12<Nite>thats still a fault of bureaucracy
18:13<Nite>the technic it self isnt bad - just ppl can be unkind.
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18:14<ln->like in a local bus; earlier one could purchase 9 days of travel with 10€ on the bus. now that's not possible anymore, because the software of the new devices doesn't support charging other periods than a whole month.
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18:14<Nite>you wouldnt assume that your slingshot is a bad thing just because it dont supports mammoth killing.
18:15<ln->earlier one could have a bus card that could both have credits for individual, random trips, as well as a certain number of days. now one must choose one of the two, or have two physical cards.
18:16<Nite>whole month tickets only is miserable.
18:16<Nite>what a strange bus system where do u live?
18:17<ln->it's not that strange, except for the new software limitations.
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18:18<Nite>the whole (new) money system(s) begin(s) to suck anyway
18:19<Nite>still software was invented by someone and therefore WE control software and not the other way around.
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18:19<Nite>you are controlled by other humans not software - get that.
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18:20<ln->earlier paying the rent where i live was easy, once a year an A4 sheet was delivered with all the necessary per-month information on it. one could also automate the whole process with a few mouse clicks on the web bank.
18:21<Nite>you can still.
18:21<Nite>imean automate the process
18:21<Nite>and what do you have 2 do then?
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18:22<ln->then they switched to a completely new system. the damn rent bills arrive no more than a week before they should be paid. and automating the process the same way it was done earlier is not possible, because this new system DOES NOT SUPPORT IT.
18:22<Nite>and how do you pay then?
18:22<Nite>cash ;P
18:24<Nite>and where is that?
18:24<ln->no, through the web bank or whatever method you choose to interact with your own bank.
18:25<Nite>whats so bad bout interacting with own bank - dont get it ...
18:25<Nite>(still, yes, there are people bhind it all)
18:26<ln->you cannot automate paying the bill anymore, because the software of the foundation that the rent is paid to doesn't support automated payments anymore.
18:27<Nite>so you have to walk to you bank every month and pay cash or what - HOW do you pay?
18:28<ln->earlier you could enter the required data once, and with a few additional clicks choose to automate the whole process, and you basically didn't need to do any work after that, the money was just taken from your account automatically every month.
18:30<ln->no, i walk to my web browser and enter my own bank's web site, and pay the bill. but i have to do that every fucking month, and i don't ever have the required info for two months at a time, so i cannot schedule more payments at once.
18:30<Nite>its 21th century not stoneage but message.
18:31<ln->i didn't understand that sentence.
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18:32<Nite>paying manually every month is really awkward.
18:33<Nite>i mean i live in a oldfashioned country but this is possible everywhere ...
18:34<ln->this automated payment thing is offered by almost all companies to which people pay something regularly. so it is basically offered by the bank(s), but the receiver of payments must have a system that supports it.
18:34<Nite>strange enaugh you have 2 buy most cars in cash here :-o
18:34<Sionide>direct debit...?
18:34<Sionide>my rent goes out as a standing order each month, on it's own
18:35<ln->it might very well be called direct debit in english...
18:35<Nite>sry but even i can eccept automated payment - yust everyone who has a bank account CAN do that
18:35<Nite>they yust dont want it, what reason ever ...
18:35<Sionide>Nite, that's a standing order, not a direct debit
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18:35<Nite>hoever i cant halp you
18:36<Nite>i also accept a "standing order".
18:36<ln->over here i'd say it is very uncommon to buy a car with cash, if one is buying it from a car shop.
18:36<Nite>you haven't answered where this is?
18:36<Sionide>too slow
18:36<Nite>yeah it is uncommon but you literalyl go with a bag of cas to many cardealers.
18:36<Sionide>Nite, /whois ln-
18:37<Nite>at least no software gets in the way this way.
18:37<Sionide>what the
18:37<Sionide>cars are expensive, i'd never walk around with that kinda cash in a bag
18:37<ln->but these stupidities cannot be generalized to cover finland as a whole.
18:38<Nite>same with cardealers here ...
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18:38<Nite>i basically think finland might habve good systems for doing a living.
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18:39<ln->over here, i think, the procedure goes like this: you go to the car shop, you pay something (like a few hundred euros, possibly using a card, not cash), you get a bill with you and you drive the car home.
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18:41<Nite>waht ever payment methods - wed be lucky to have teh "money".
18:42<ln->i can't imagine how can having e.g. 100k€ cash at your shop be very practical.
18:42<Nite>wht is "k€" ?
18:43<AmiXwoktest>seems like my Nokia E90
18:43<AmiXwoktest>got PowerVR 3D chip
18:43<ln->Nite: kilo euro
18:43<AmiXwoktest>thats the same 3D chip as in Dreamcast ;=)
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18:43<Nite>(my client dont reads the euro symbol)
18:43<ln->100 thousand euros
18:44<ln->your clients be broken
18:44<Nite>havent thought abaout that - myght be lukrative to rob cardealers ;)
18:44<Nite>no its not broken it just DONT SUPPORTS THIS *argh*
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19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>man, i want a feature to switch engines at a station
19:15<Eddi|zuHause2>so i can actually switch between steam and electric
19:16<ln->but that probably can't be done without rewriting half of the game.
19:19<@Bjarni>looks like Sionide got a point
19:20<Nite>acn you actually run atrain with steam/diesel AND electric loco on it (doubleheded) ?
19:20<Nite>. .
19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but that is stupid (from my point of view)
19:21<@Bjarni>stupid, but possible
19:21<Eddi|zuHause2>the electric engine will be disabled during non-electric travel
19:21<@Bjarni>maybe acn isn't aware of this
19:22<@Bjarni>anyway time for bed
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19:24<ln->so when do we code a new ttd-style game from scratch?
19:24<AmiXwoktest>isnt openttd fine?
19:25<ln->it is not extendable, it is not maintainable.
19:26<ln->it heavily depends on commercial files that are hard to obtain legally.
19:28<ln->if it was extendable, it would be a matter of hours to add support for e.g. underwater tunnels.
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19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>or shunting :p
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>or PBS :p
19:39<Eddi|zuHause2>or The New Map Array (R)
19:45<Nite>will it realy disabel? wil its % age decay ?
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21:03<Sacro>zomg an orudge
21:06<Sacro>i spotted leuchars in the guess the brittish station thread!
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22:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11153 /branches/0.5/lang/slovak.txt: [0.5] -Fix [FS#1251]: incorrect usage of {G} tag in slovak translation
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22:20<Phazorx>anyone alive on this planet?
22:20<+glx>I am but not for long ;)
22:22<Phazorx>glx: a server refuses to load a game
22:22<Phazorx>comes up with pregenerated althoug i use -g switch
22:22<Phazorx>what do i need to turn on in debug to figure out why it fdoes it ?
22:22<+glx>where is the game ?
22:23<+glx>-g with full path fails ?
22:23<Phazorx>have only tried relative
22:23<+glx>I mean -g save/game65.sav
22:23<Phazorx>nothing realy fails
22:23<Phazorx>it just loads a generated one
22:24<Phazorx>./openttd -G save/game65.sav -D -d 2
22:24<+glx>it's -g
22:24<Phazorx>well small g
22:25<Phazorx>how do i scroll up in screen session :/
22:25[~]glx checks source (I think order matters)
22:25<+glx>shift-pageup I think
22:25<Phazorx>that's console screen
22:26<Phazorx>oh... it did not find one grf
22:26<Phazorx>could that be it ?
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22:28<+glx>are you sure it's a generated game when it fails?
22:28<+glx>it should be intro game
22:29<Phazorx>if i use autopilot it is intro
22:29<Phazorx>i got a generated one once too
22:29<Phazorx>i think it is intro if i dont misspell anything
22:31<+glx>-G is for the seed
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22:31<Phazorx>that's what i mean by mispeling
22:31<Phazorx>i think it is grf
22:31<Phazorx>reloading map
22:32[~]glx goes to sleep
22:33<+glx>good night
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 24 00:00:55 2007