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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-09-24

---Logopened Mon Sep 24 00:00:55 2007
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06:56<Brianetta>I have stumbled upon a freakish coincidence
06:57<Brianetta>The world population at the UNIX epoch
07:06<blathijs>was what?
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07:35<Tefad>i'm going to guess 4.3 billion
07:35<Tefad>but that's just a hunch
07:47[~]Phazorx pings Brianetta
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08:57<skidd13>hi
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09:17<skidd13>Any dev comments to FS1090?
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09:29<@Belugas>+ "cleaner_town_growth",
09:29<@Belugas>+ "mod_road_rebuild",
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09:29<@Belugas>Yo need otiopns?
09:29<hylje>:o
09:29<hylje>yo
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09:30<skidd13>Hmm. I prefer to split modifications from the original code
09:33<@Belugas>personally, i'm not much in favor of splitting. The option panel is quite populated, imho. If it is a fix, it might as well be an inclusive one. Or maybe attach it to any of the non-original towd road patter maybe?
09:33<@Belugas>after all, those are non-original behaviours ;)
09:34<skidd13>If you prefer it this way.
09:35<@Belugas>as i said, it is myu opinion.
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09:35<@Belugas>I do not know what the others think of it
09:36<@Belugas>and i'm not only speaking of th other devs ;)
09:36<@Belugas>so question is raised
09:36<@Belugas>and i'm not going to make a poll :D
09:36[~]Belugas resumes reading
09:37<skidd13>For + "cleaner_town_growth" I can agree
09:37<skidd13>+ "mod_road_rebuild", is a more difficult thing cause it changes the meaning of the RoadReconstruction
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10:07<@Belugas>could be skidd13. Justnot there yet. work@work is a nightmarish thing today
10:11<skidd13>work@work/uni is a nightmare here too ;)
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11:26<@Belugas>DaleStan, on var 45 of industry (the player info), what return would be required if we're dealing with no owner?
11:27<@Belugas>in vehspri.asm:1704, you jump out of the var if it is the case (cmp al,7).
11:28<@Belugas>note that i could simply prohibit the callback to be lunch if it is the case, might be easier. Just wondering
11:28<@Belugas>err.. callback 1A4, that is...
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11:33<DaleStan>Currently the no-owner return is unspecified. Actual value is 000000010. The low byte is unlikely to change, but the rest may, as some parts are normally dependent on [curplayer], not [esi+<foo>.owner]
11:34<DaleStan>Do not disable callback 14A. Some industries may want to select between some subset of the available colors.
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11:44<@Belugas>Thanks DaleStan. In the case of an owner none, though, c and C could be simply 0?
11:44<@Belugas>or does ttdp have some values for it?
11:44<@Belugas>(player info 43 for vehicles)
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11:49<DaleStan>The only other defined thing Patch could do would be to return the corresponding color for [curplayer] and/or [human1], but the former isn't always reliable, and the latter is not particularly useful. (There's lots of dont-look-at-it-or-you'll-break-it type magic to make vehicle 43 work properly in the purchase window, without using [curplayer].)
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11:49<Wolf01>hello
11:51<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
11:51<@Belugas>DaleStan, that is exactly waht i want to be sure of, for the whole callback system
11:52<@Belugas>since var 45 is based on ver 43, that is...
11:53<Wolf01>we Belugas
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11:59<DaleStan>indu 45 requires a structure, and is not defined if the owner is not a player. veh var 43 is always available, with or without a structure, and vehicles always have a player-owner.
11:59<DaleStan>And now I'm way late leaving.
12:00<@Belugas>so you can stay then :D
12:00<@Belugas>thanks
12:03<SpComb>masterserver / servers.openttd.org down?
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12:07<Rubidium>looks like it
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12:14<SpComb>according to XeryusTC it's been down since yesterday?
12:14<XeryusTC>yes
12:14<XeryusTC>well
12:15<XeryusTC>i heard the devs say it was down yesterday too :P
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12:17<orudge>It's not been down since yesterday
12:17<orudge>it just happened to go down yesterday. And conveniently just now, too.
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12:21<orudge>hmm
12:21<orudge>DOS attack
12:21<SpComb>against openttd.org specifically?
12:22<orudge>no
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12:22<SpComb>ICMP pings get through fine, but HTTP and the UDP master-server queries don't
12:22[~]SpComb heads to the store
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12:43<orudge>I think that's it under control
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13:17[~]Purno pokes scia in the eyes
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13:25<boekabart>Purno: How is DutchSet coming along?
13:25<boekabart>getting close?
13:26<Purno>boekabart , nopes, progress is on halt
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13:27<boekabart>ow?
13:27<boekabart>how come
13:27<Purno>because the full coding team (hyro and me) have other hobbies to spend times on nowadays
13:27<boekabart>shame... so much work 'lost' on hold :(
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13:30<Purno>yep, but if you're volunteering to continue... ;)
13:30<Phazorx>!was thre a nighty released already today?
13:31<boekabart>Purno: depends what needs to be done
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13:31<boekabart>grf-coding is not my specialty (as in, never done it :) )
13:31<Rubidium>Phazorx: how hard is it to find out yourself?
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13:31<Phazorx>considering i just woke up - very :)
13:32<Purno>boekabart , we use GRF Maker
13:32<Purno>it's not that hard
13:32<Phazorx>timezone maths will not compute at this time with me
13:32<Purno>but it's mainly coding which needs to be done
13:33<Rubidium>Phazorx: just type nightly.openttd.org in "random" browser
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13:36<boekabart>Purno: what does the coding consist of?
13:37<Purno>it's mainly drag and drop interface where you fill in some fields
13:37<Purno>you still have to know some NFO tricks, but I'm sure you can find help with that.
13:37<Purno>actually, most of the special tricks already have been done
13:37<Purno>so there's already examples in the file
13:38<Purno>it just needs to be combined and copied for other trains
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13:38<Purno>e.g. combining a year depenant livery like train A has with a consist depenandent livery like train B has for train C.
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13:40<@Bjarni>I just had the worst timing ever. Some guy PMed me a moment after I left the computer, waited 40 minutes for a reply and left 3 minutes before I returned :(
13:40<hylje>haha
13:41<hylje>serves you right for being afk
13:41<@Bjarni>now I guess I have to call him
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13:43<Phazorx>Rubidium: i got one for ya
13:43<Phazorx>another coopers desync
13:43<Phazorx>on r11118
13:44<Phazorx>this time guaranteed in 6 days from save start
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13:47<@Bjarni>save that savegame well
13:47<boekabart>Purno: wellaa...
13:47<boekabart>how could i get started?
13:47<@Bjarni>I mean... make sure you don't accidentally overwrite it
13:47<Purno>boekabart , what do you know about dutch trains?
13:48<Phazorx>http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/desyncs.at.February.5th.sav
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13:50<boekabart>Purno: a lot
13:50<boekabart>about the passenger ones, more than about freight ones
13:51<boekabart>although i just moved and now have a good view of the 4 track line departing from eindhoven north
13:51<boekabart>so I see (and hear) my share of freight trains now
13:51<Purno>boekabart , awesome
13:51<Purno>I guess I could just send you the file and you can install GRF maker and try some thingies with it :)
13:51<boekabart>good plan
13:52<boekabart>yesterday I went to den bosch - the IRM to tilburg went side-by-side all the way until after boxtel - awesome view
13:52<@Bjarni>heh
13:53<@Bjarni>it's always nice to have a good view
13:53<@Bjarni>while driving
13:56<boekabart>actually 'my
13:56<boekabart>driver didn;t see it
13:56<boekabart>the tilburg one was about 1 car behind
13:56<hylje>heh
13:57<@Bjarni>I was once in a train, that overtook the train I was suppose to get on (hence I switched at the next station)
13:57<hylje>heh
13:57<hylje>i dont get that much
13:57<@Bjarni>kind of funny to see our own train driving while I drove like 10 km/h faster
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13:58<hylje>i dont get that good schedules when it comes to overtaking
13:58<@Bjarni>it was kind of a rare moment... you see it was the short distance where two lines are right next to each other
13:59<hylje>heh
13:59<hylje>here it's LRRL all the way
14:00<Purno>boekabart , you got a PM at the forums
14:01<hylje>you silly danes have your rails all over the place :>
14:01<@Bjarni>no
14:01<@Bjarni>just in the Copenhagen area
14:02<@Bjarni>go to Jylland and if you find some rails, then it's most likely single tracked without catenary
14:03<@Bjarni>and without block signals, so there are no signals outside the stations, hence long distance between the trains
14:03<boekabart>Purno: thx
14:04<hylje>oh noes :p
14:05<Sacro>oh noes?
14:07<hylje>lack of block signals!
14:07<@Bjarni>well
14:07<@Bjarni>they have a bunch of stations
14:08<@Bjarni>even stations without platforms
14:09<hylje>!
14:11<@Bjarni>in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals
14:11<@Bjarni>and usually switches as well
14:11<SpComb>yes! The username.myottd.net/servername urls now actually work ;)
14:11<hylje>what about a location where a train usually stops to take and drop cargo
14:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11154 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix [FS#1239]: MIDI failing to play under Windows 95, 98 and ME.
14:12<@Bjarni>a "station" without signals is just a platform outside a station (we have a name for it... one I'm not sure how to translate)
14:12<SpComb>having the username as a subdomain is great, the myottd servers don't cluster together in the server list anymore, and the first thing that hits the eye is the username, which is better than having them all be "MyOTTD"
14:12<Phazorx>Rubidium: please take a look at that save
14:12<Rubidium>since which revision is it desyncing?
14:13<Phazorx>well i'd assume it is a oneoff of some kind
14:13<Phazorx>since this is 3rd game we have with same rev
14:13<Phazorx>but it started desyncing suddenly in a middle of it
14:13<Phazorx>there are only 60 trains
14:13<Phazorx>and i tried restarteign server - but that has no affect
14:13<Rubidium>then it's probably a train you haven't used in the previous games
14:14<Phazorx>we have diff trainset
14:14<@Bjarni>you can desync with just one train if that train can trigger the desync
14:14<Phazorx>Bjarni: obviously, but usualy it takes much large game to show
14:14<Phazorx>cuz some things are statistical by nature
14:14<Phazorx>and more vehicles means more chances
14:15<@Bjarni>more trains: higher probability of one of the trains to trigger the issue
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14:15<Phazorx>exactly
14:15<@Bjarni>but for all we know, the desync could be caused by something else, like a town growth or similar
14:15<Phazorx>well, my Q is - can it be looked at and mitigated
14:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11155 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp:
14:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1253]: work around a nasty MS CRT 8 SP1 bug making it virtually
14:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: impossible to debug 32bpp games under MSVC
14:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: (http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=257606).
14:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Patch by boekabart.
14:16<hylje>windows workarounds ;_;
14:16<Phazorx>given that there is only 6 days and 60 trains, should be not that hard to dig through log
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14:16<Rubidium>it'll only be a couple of megabytes....
14:17<Phazorx>Rubidium: can you llok at it then plz ?
14:17<Sacro>!logs
14:17<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
14:17<Sacro>hmm, this keyboard is swedish
14:17<hylje>oh noes?
14:18[~]Sacro presses the Hjalp button
14:18<hylje>hjälp!
14:20<Sacro>yes!
14:20<Sacro>i'm lacking in umlauts
14:20<Sacro>Oppna!
14:20<hylje>Öppnas här
14:21<@Bjarni>Sacro: you have your sparc unit?
14:21<Sacro>Bjarni: yes
14:21<@Bjarni>cool
14:21<Sacro>but currently i have no way to connect it to a monitor
14:22<Rubidium>argh... why can't OTTDcoop keep their GRF set like more than a few weeks?
14:22<hylje>haha :D
14:22<Phazorx>Rubidium: set comes out once per 6-8 weeks actualy :)
14:22<hylje>Sacro: do you have solaris
14:22<boekabart>Rubidium: why do you keep committing stuff :)
14:22<Sacro>hylje: yes
14:22<Sacro>getting solaris 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
14:22<Sacro>sunos 1.0
14:23<hylje>wut
14:23<Sacro>next for sparc and x86
14:23<DeGhosty>what you talking about
14:23<DeGhosty>grf 5 was like for 5 month
14:23<@Bjarni>his new gear
14:23<Rubidium>hmm... how useful to have a zip with the updates since 6beta for 6beta
14:23<hylje>haha
14:24<Rubidium>slow server :(
14:27<boekabart>how nerdy can a family get: just had a skypeout conference with my mother and my wife (who is in the next room) :|
14:27<boekabart>somehow - i didn't get/need to say much
14:28<Sacro>"with my mother and my wife" <- zomg incest
14:28<@Bjarni>I think he meant two people
14:28<@Bjarni>but you have a point... he wasn't clear in that staement
14:29<@Bjarni>*statement
14:29<Sacro>so, shall i begin my process of porting OpenTTD to solaris?
14:30<@Bjarni>sure
14:30<@Bjarni>I once compiled it on solaris, so it should be possible to get it working again
14:30<@Bjarni>it was sparc as well
14:31<Sacro>well this is needing a 4bnc to vga adapter
14:35<boekabart>4bnc... i have a couple of 5bnc2vga lying around
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14:36<Sacro>mmm
14:41<Phazorx>why doesnt it desync on my windows boxes with same save?
14:42<@Bjarni>what OS makes it desync?
14:42<@Bjarni>some PPC hardware?
14:43<Phazorx>pretty much same hardware, hwere and there, but win32 vs linux 2.6
14:44<@Bjarni>ok
14:44<@Bjarni>then we rule out endian issues
14:44<Phazorx>something tells me it is to do with GRFs
14:44<@Bjarni>me too
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14:45<Phazorx>i hope Rubidium is looking into that...
14:45<Rubidium>me no desync
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14:45<@Bjarni>but we can't rule out that the grf handling can contain endian issues
14:45<KoverSrac>Hi
14:45<Phazorx>Rubidium: needs server config or anything?
14:45<Amixwoktest>port openttd to ataritos ;)
14:46<Rubidium>no, I need to know how to reproduce it
14:46<Phazorx>Rubidium: or - want to conenct to server and see clientside output when desyncing ?
14:46<Rubidium>and just copying files around isn't the way to do it
14:46<Phazorx>well... how can i help?
14:46<@Bjarni>by default, everything is little endian, so if it should convert endian on load and it's not converted, then it works on little endian (x86), but fails on big endian (PPC and sparc)
14:47<Sacro>what endian is sparc?
14:47<Rubidium>Phazorx: I NEED to be able to reproduce it locally *or* I need some way to reproduce it between two different computers
14:47<Rubidium>Sacro: middle endian
14:47<ln->what endian is ARM?
14:47<Sacro>Rubidium: cheers
14:47<Phazorx>Rubidium: will having -d 5 on client when desynced help you
14:47<Rubidium>not a thing
14:47<Phazorx>and i can provide you with server specs and everything
14:47<Phazorx>since it is due to soem differences
14:48<Phazorx>Rubidium: well perhaps it ahs to do with soemthing specific like compiler version or kernel or whatever
14:49<Phazorx>if you wont desync when rest will it will tell you something
14:49<KoverSrac>Can anyone please tell me how to enable electric rails?
14:49<Rubidium>what I need is that both the server and the client uncomment line 45 and recompile
14:49<Rubidium>you have to pipe the output to the console to a file and send that to me
14:49<Rubidium>then I can diff that and get some data from that
14:50<Sacro>eej
14:50<Sacro>its a full moon :(
14:50<Rubidium>then I'm going to send you a diff to "dig" a little deeper
14:50<Rubidium><repeat until desync is solved>
14:50<Phazorx>Rubidium: could be the only plan
14:50<Rubidium>which usually is more than 20 cycles
14:50<Phazorx>line 45 where ?
14:50<Rubidium>functions.h
14:51<Phazorx>#define RANDOM_DEBUG
14:52<Phazorx>i take it just make will do ?
14:52<Rubidium>for non-MSVC yes
14:52<Phazorx>server is linux based
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14:53<Phazorx>same for client i guess?
14:53<Rubidium>yes, otherwise it's useless
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14:55<Phazorx>well something didnt work i guess
14:55<Phazorx>client compiled 2 files
14:55<Sacro>make -DRANDOM_DEBUG ?
14:55<Phazorx>server is compiling all
14:55<Phazorx>ahh...
14:55<Phazorx>didnt know i need to pass def
14:56<Rubidium>Sacro: that's useless as that won't recompile all files
14:56<Sacro>Rubidium: oh right
14:56<Sacro>:\
14:56<Phazorx>clienty only did
14:56<Phazorx>[SRC] Compiling rev.cpp
14:56<Phazorx>[SRC] Compiling resource ottdres.rc
14:56<Phazorx>[SRC] Linking openttd.exe
14:56<Phazorx>server is still compiling
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14:56<Rubidium>Phazorx: then you didn't save the file
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14:57<Phazorx>/home/trunk# grep RANDOM src/functions.h
14:57<Phazorx>#define RANDOM_DEBUG
14:57<Phazorx>#ifdef RANDOM_DEBUG
14:57<Sacro>!logs
14:57<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
14:57<Rubidium>`make clean all` then
14:57<Phazorx>will this mean anything: gcc.exe (GCC) 3.4.2 (mingw-special)
14:58<mcbane>what ever.
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14:58<mcbane>sorry wring window.
14:58<mcbane>*wrong
14:58<Phazorx>Rubidium: do i need to start it in any funky way ?
14:59<+glx>yes add a redirection to a file :)
14:59<Rubidium>pipe stdout to a file (IIRC)
14:59<Phazorx>that might eb hard within autopilot...
14:59<Rubidium>could be stderr though
15:00<Rubidium>then kill autopilot
15:02<Phazorx>started server - dont have any unusual ouptut in console
15:02<Phazorx>-d 5 ?
15:02<Rubidium>no
15:02<Rubidium>I really do not want any spam in the random output
15:03<Phazorx>so, what am i doing wrong then ?
15:03<Phazorx>oops hold that thopught
15:03<Phazorx>brb
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15:33<Rubidium>Phazorx: doesn't look like a "simple" 3.4 vs 4.1/4.2 desync to me
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15:56<ThePenguin>odd...When I compile the latest svn on visual C++ it keeps give me an error "No available Language Packs (invalid version?)"
15:57<+glx>from where do you start openttd?
15:57<ThePenguin>what do you mean?
15:57<ThePenguin>what folder is it in?
15:57<+glx>yes
15:58<+glx>it should be in bin
15:59<ThePenguin>I move it from my objs folder to C:\Program Files\OpenTTD.
15:59<Rubidium>ever thought about copying the language packs too?
16:00<ThePenguin>ohh that's it. hehe. I've never had to do that before thanks
16:00<+glx>langs are in bin/lang
16:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11156 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix r11155: fix one compiler makes the other warn ;)
16:00<+glx>nice lag CIA-1 ;)
16:00<Amixwoktest>http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Brondingtown.png
16:00<Amixwoktest>;=)
16:02<Rubidium>http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/Prindtown%20Transport,%206th%20May%201951.png <- most useless game isn't it?
16:02<Phazorx>sorry was AFK, personal matter
16:02<Phazorx>Rubidium: where did we stop?
16:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11157 /trunk/src/misc.cpp: -Fix: some random data was printed because printf "thought" that _current_player is 4 bytes instead of 1 byte, causing the random debug output to be useless.
16:02<@Belugas>teaser :D
16:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11158 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Codechange: reduce the amount of Random calls needed when we do not have NewGRF industries that actually need the random bits.
16:02<Rubidium>Phazorx: at you trying to reproduce it, and when you could reproduce it try to reproduce it in latest trunk
16:03<Phazorx>i see randoms now in output but very few
16:03<Rubidium>cause the random debug is kinda useless in r11118
16:03<Phazorx>isnt screen should be filled with the,?
16:03<Rubidium>Phazorx: very few?
16:03<Phazorx>oh... perfect
16:03<Phazorx>so should i even try
16:04<Rubidium>well, first determine what's the easiest way to repeatedly reproduce it
16:04<Phazorx>Rubidium: few as in i saw total of 10 on screen now
16:04<Phazorx>oh
16:04<Phazorx>plenty now
16:04<Rubidium>like 250 MB worth till the 7th
16:04<Phazorx>i guess since game was apused - nothing there
16:05<Phazorx>cant redirect console however
16:05<Phazorx>is that normal ?
16:05<Rubidium>then you are *screwed* very seriously
16:05<Phazorx>ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public/bin$ ./openttd -x -D 0.0.0.0:3980 -g save/game65.desync.sav -c debug.cfg > debu
16:05<Phazorx>g.1
16:05<Phazorx>dbg: [net] [core] starting network...
16:05<Phazorx>dbg: [net] [core] network online, multiplayer available
16:05<Phazorx>dbg: [net] Detected broadcast addresses:
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16:05<Phazorx>could it related to screen ?
16:05<Rubidium>oh, those lines...
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16:06<Rubidium>those aren't interesting and aren't send to stdout (they go to stderr), which is good as it won't taint the log file
16:06<Phazorx>okay i'm gonna let it run for awhile and see of file grows
16:06<Rubidium>what do you mean with a while?
16:07<Rubidium>has the client connected?
16:07<Phazorx>client has 11118M and server is 11118
16:07<Phazorx>cant conenct :/
16:08<Rubidium>both have local modifications
16:08<Rubidium>so the server isn't running the correct binary
16:08<Phazorx>i just compiled it...
16:08<+glx><Phazorx> okay i'm gonna let it run for awhile and see of file grows <-- you clearly don't know how big the random log can be :)
16:08<Phazorx>glx: if game is paused it tends to be 0
16:08<Rubidium>yes
16:09<Phazorx>which was confusing me a bit
16:09<Rubidium>and it only grows when the first client is connected
16:09<Phazorx>which is good
16:09<+glx>yes, but it's better to have a rapid desync
16:09<Rubidium>Phazorx: isn't it kinda obvious that nothing happens when the game is paused?
16:09<Phazorx>however - i can not connect due to mentioned reason
16:09<Phazorx>Rubidium: i see things happening in the log
16:09<Phazorx>so it not like just nothing happens
16:09<Phazorx>but yes i should have guessed that random has to do only with game enguine
16:10<Phazorx>rather than whgole applciation
16:10<Rubidium>what kind of garbage is sent into the log now then?
16:10<Rubidium>because it is obviously not random debug stuff
16:10<Phazorx>nothing in the log, but lots on screen
16:10<Phazorx>net related
16:11<Phazorx>how do i get M in the revision ?
16:11<Rubidium>then STOP saying it is in the log when it is NOT
16:11<Phazorx>or should i just do make all clean ?
16:11<Rubidium>Phazorx: by doing local modifications
16:11<Phazorx>well obviosly since randoms started to apperaing modifications are in effect
16:11<Rubidium>Phazorx: randoms ONLY show when the first client joins
16:12<Phazorx>someone did connect
16:12<Phazorx>with stamdard version
16:12<Phazorx>but i can not conenct with modded one
16:12<Rubidium>as I said before... you are running the WRONG server
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16:13<Phazorx>but it produces debugs, as it sugegsted by function.h line i changed
16:13<Phazorx>i mean i have someone joined there since server is in master list
16:13<Rubidium>then recompile the thing
16:13<Phazorx>no funky params necessary?
16:14<Phazorx>nothing special i nede to get it to put M under linux?
16:14<Rubidium>no
16:14<Rubidium>it should've done automatically
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16:14<Rubidium>but somehow your system is screwed
16:14<Phazorx>correction: Brianetta's system :)
16:15<Phazorx>mine actualy did put M where it suppsoed to
16:16<Rubidium>how big is the log now?
16:16<Phazorx>i stopped the server since i am recompiling
16:16<Phazorx>-rw------- 1 ottdcoop users 540006743 Sep 24 21:15 debug.1
16:17<Phazorx>that's about 20 min of one client
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16:19<Rubidium>more like two game weeks
16:20<Phazorx>well 20 min since server started
16:20<Phazorx>person could have logged in a bit later
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16:21<Rubidium>way later as 7 game days gave me 250 MB of log with the given savegame at r11118
16:21<+glx>anyway debug log is only useful if you have both client and server logs
16:21<Rubidium>(and a little less than 20 MB with r11155)
16:22<Phazorx>glx: exactly my issue - client and server got different revisions
16:22<Phazorx>hence i am recompiling
16:22<Phazorx>no m :(
16:22<+glx>and it's even more useful to make log when you know "when" the desync will happen
16:23<Phazorx>glx we know
16:23<Phazorx>6 days after game unpaused
16:23<+glx>is it an svn source?
16:23<Phazorx>yes
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16:23<+glx>what says svnversion?
16:24<Phazorx>something totaly differnt from what i expect
16:24<Phazorx>Revision: 11129
16:24<Phazorx>ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ ./bin/openttd --help | grep OpenTTD
16:24<Phazorx>OpenTTD r11118
16:25<Phazorx>and that's what i just compiled from that src
16:25<+glx>so clean r11129 trunk
16:25<Phazorx>well this is very confusing now
16:25<Rubidium>no wonder why it desyncs...
16:25<+glx>with forced rev
16:25<Phazorx>where the freaking revision is coming?
16:25<Rubidium>someone doing ./configure --revision=r11118
16:26[~]Phazorx kicks XeryusTC
16:26<Phazorx>bastard
16:27<Phazorx>thanks i'll come back if it is not resolved
16:27<+glx>anyway you didn't change the sources ;)
16:27<Wolf01>'night
16:27|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:27<Phazorx>didnt?
16:28<+glx><Phazorx> Revision: 11129 <-- means no changes in source
16:28<Rubidium>if you did it would've had an M appended
16:29<Phazorx>ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ svn info | grep Revision
16:29<Phazorx>Revision: 11129
16:29<Phazorx>ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ grep RANDOM src/functions.h
16:29<Phazorx>#define RANDOM_DEBUG
16:29<Phazorx>#ifdef RANDOM_DEBUG
16:29<+glx>wait it's not svnversion output
16:29<+glx>you did svn info
16:29<Phazorx>what is "subversion output" ?
16:29<+glx>just type 'svnversion .'
16:29<Rubidium>Phazorx: read and don't guess what somebody writes
16:30<Phazorx>ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ subversion
16:30<Phazorx>bash: subversion: command not found
16:30<Rubidium>Phazorx: READ
16:30<Phazorx>it is M
16:32<Phazorx>thanks and sorry for misunderstanding
16:32|-|Darkebie [~dkb@d5153D5CD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: VIP Gill ;D]
16:35<Brianetta>[22:14] <Rubidium> but somehow your system is screwed
16:35<Brianetta>[22:14] <Phazorx> correction: Brianetta's system :)
16:35<Brianetta>Why is my system screwed?
16:36<Sacro>Brianetta: easier than using an allan key
16:37<Rubidium>because the people administrating the OTTDcoop server have made a big mess of it
16:37<Rubidium>by for example overriding the revision of their OTTD binary
16:37<Phazorx>Brianetta: someone, apparently XeryusTC, didnt follow instruction
16:37<Phazorx>and got one revision to be pretending another one
16:37<Rubidium>which then caused OTTD's build system to not add a M nor the correct revision in the revision string
16:38<Phazorx>whoch lead to desyncs and me trying to figure out the reason for it
16:38<Rubidium>but that is okay, because it did override it
16:38<Rubidium>but when nobody tells me they have it overridden... then you're more likely to assume the system isn't okay than that they have overriden the revision
16:39<Phazorx>Brianetta: our AP is still very killabale with that command and would really like to know what exactly in config could be causing it
16:39<Amixwoktest>Rubidium: nice track
16:39<Amixwoktest>didnt see it before
16:40<Eddi|zuHause><Bjarni> in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals <- i learned that a station is anything that has at least one switch
16:40<+glx>Amixwoktest: try to find the coal mine grf ;)
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16:41<Amixwoktest>glx: ?
16:41<Amixwoktest>how to draw grf?
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16:42<Ammler>whats happen, if you update a patched to a new svn revision with patched files?
16:42<Amixwoktest>is there some guides on howto?
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16:42<+glx>Rubidium's screenshot was a test case, not a real game
16:42<Ammler>I always do svn revert to be sure, its "clean"
16:42<Amixwoktest>ok
16:42<+glx>Ammler: nothing if you're lucky, else conflicts to resolve
16:43<Amixwoktest>but ive seen people making such things and earns money on that
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16:43<Rubidium>Amixwoktest: just look at the industry window and tell us what's different
16:44<Amixwoktest>lets take it another time
16:44<Amixwoktest>i am ready for bed
16:44<Amixwoktest>;)
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16:44<Ammler>glx: a patched file won't be overwriten?
16:44<Rubidium>Belugas: seems nobody is interested in our work ;) better revert it
16:44<Ammler>(with svn up)
16:45<Rubidium>Ammler: that depends on the circumstances
16:45<+glx>svn does the right thing if changes doesn't overlap
16:45<+glx>else it tells you to do the right thing :)
16:45|-|Administrator_ [~chatzilla@84-245-3-240.dsl.cambrium.nl] has joined #openttd
16:46<Ammler>means, it breaks with an error msg
16:46<Phazorx>hmmm
16:46<Phazorx>[SRC] Linking openttd.exe
16:46<Phazorx>industry_cmd.o:industry_cmd.cpp:(.text+0x12d4): undefined reference to `Random()'
16:46<Phazorx>that's vanila r11152
16:46<Rubidium>Ammler: read the documentation of subversion
16:46<+glx>oh that's bad Phazorx
16:46<Phazorx>under w32
16:46<Amixwoktest>Rubidium: i am interested in trams ;)
16:47<Rubidium>Phazorx: been changing files while compiling?
16:47|-|Administrator_ changed nick to Barry
16:47<Phazorx>Rubidium: nope, just did revert too
16:47<Phazorx>but that didnt do anything
16:47<Phazorx>make clean might eb a good idea tho
16:48<Rubidium>yes
16:48<Rubidium>for some reason nothing seems to work as it should around you
16:48<Phazorx>at least not as expected
16:49<Rubidium>no, as it should, cause it works as expected on my machine
16:49<+glx>works here too (mingw)
16:49<Phazorx>well it is windows aftter all
16:49<Ammler>[23:48] <Rubidium> Ammler: read the documentation of subversion <-- omg, so complicated?
16:49<XeryusTC>Phazorx: WTH?
16:49<XeryusTC><Phazorx> Brianetta: someone, apparently XeryusTC, didnt follow instruction
16:50<Phazorx>XeryusTC: read around that
16:50<Phazorx>we dont know who was it for sure
16:50<XeryusTC>no
16:50<XeryusTC>what's going on?
16:50<Rubidium>Ammler: there are quite a few cornercases I do not want to explain here in detail
16:50<Phazorx>but someone apparently did update revision
16:50<Phazorx>but kept old versuion info
16:50<Phazorx>so we got desyncs
16:51<XeryusTC>hmm
16:51<XeryusTC>old version info?
16:51|-|Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:52<Rubidium>no somebody who made the assumption that ./configure --revision=11118 updates you working copy to r11118.
16:52<+glx>Ammler: svn up
16:52<+glx>M file1 <-- file1 was not patched
16:52<+glx>G file2 <-- file2 was patched but svn changes were in an other place
16:52<+glx>C file3 <-- file3 was patched and svn changes were in the same place
16:52<+glx>latest line means you'll need to edit the code then use "svn resolved"
16:52|-|Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
16:52<Phazorx>bugger
16:53<Rubidium>and then there are a few more cases, like svn move which does not "retain" the changes from file X to Y when somebody moved file X to Y
16:54<+glx>Ammler: anyway even without conflicts the code may be broken and fail to compile/work
16:55<+glx>like when a function get an added arg
16:55<+glx>Rubidium: yes c->c++ was nice for all patches ;)
16:56<+glx>then we've done Makefile rewrite, same effect :)
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, you just need to change the filenames/paths in the diff file
17:00<+glx>but you must svn diff before the update
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that would be appropriate ;)
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>that's what backup copies are for ;)
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17:24|-|glx changed nick to Guest1045
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17:34[~]SpComb has now pretty much finished breaking/rewiring/fixing myottd.net
17:34<SpComb>each user gets their own subdomain now
17:34<SpComb>which works out quite neatly with the urls and stuff and all
17:34<Tefad>heh neat
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>now it still does not work, but it at least looks pretty while doing that?
17:35<SpComb>it mostly works, I haven't tested the deeper corners of the admin interface yet, but they shouldn't have broken too badly
17:35<Ammler>hmm, ammler.myottd.net doesn't work
17:36|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:36<SpComb>does here
17:36<Ammler>its more a DNS problem, I guess
17:36<SpComb>hmm, it should resolve fine
17:37<SpComb>terom@shell:~$ host ammler.myottd.net
17:37<SpComb>ammler.myottd.net is an alias for www.myottd.net.
17:37<SpComb>www.myottd.net has address 82.130.16.18
17:38<Ammler>does also not work from Brianetta
17:39<SpComb>what error?
17:40<Ammler>so
17:40<Ammler>$ host ammler.myottd.net
17:40<Ammler>Host ammler.myottd.net not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>same here
17:40<Ammler>but I guess, thats only needs time
17:40<SpComb>hmmmm, it resolves fine from my university's unix server, which is unrelated to any of my servers
17:41<Brianetta>www resolves
17:41<SpComb>TTL's only an hour
17:41<Ammler>yeah
17:42<SpComb>dig +trace ammler.myottd.net // dig @ns1.marttila.de ammler.myottd.net // dig @ns2.marttila.de ammler.myottd.net
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>it also works from my university
17:42<SpComb>dump output in pb.marttila.de if it's interesting
17:43<Brianetta>Phazorx:
17:43<Brianetta>IRC PM from Brianetta: players
17:43<Brianetta>players
17:43<Brianetta>server_info
17:43<Brianetta>clients
17:43<Brianetta>echo doneclientcount
17:43<Brianetta>Mine's OK
17:43<Ammler>?
17:43<Brianetta>Ammler: Stop-motion conversation
17:43<Brianetta>Minutes to hours per frame
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>Brianetta: what was that about world population earlier today?
17:45<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause: Coincidence? I think not. At the UNIX epoch (1970/01/01 00:00:00) the world population just happened to be 0xDEADBEEF. Yeah, right, like that wasn't deliberate.
17:46<Brianetta>Ammler: ammler.myottd.net shoved in hosts file
17:46<Phazorx>Brianetta: extaly that number? :)
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>i think you should not interprete these numbers for more than 3 digits accuracy
17:47<SpComb>if you run dig +trace ammler.myottd.net, does it resolve it?
17:47<Brianetta>Eddi|zuHause: You can't say for sure they're not right
17:48<Brianetta>Phazorx: It's my determination to make everybody believe so, yes
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>i did not try to say that :p
17:48<Ammler>SpComb: yes
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>but it's a typical example of "do not trust a statistic you did not manipulate yourself"
17:48<Phazorx>Brianetta: and any conclusions based on that you want to share with us?
17:48<SpComb>I guess your local caching resolver has it negatively cached from some time earlier
17:49<Brianetta>Phazorx: It's a conspiracy.
17:49<Phazorx>almighty thee things in heaxdecimal mysterious ways?
17:50<Phazorx>thinks
17:50<Ammler>good night everyone
17:53<SpComb>figuring out how to make the subdomain stuff possible under the web framework I'm using took a while
17:53<SpComb>and the bearings in two of zapotekII's (which hosts myottd.net) fans are broken/about to break/making grinding noises
17:54<SpComb>may have to shut it down overnight to be able to sleep
17:55|-|Wezz6400 [Wezz6400@145-118-111-250.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit []
17:57<SpComb>it's making this sharp whistling noise
18:02<Prof_Frink>SpComb: Just turn the fans off
18:02<SpComb>I'd rather not wake up to the smell of burning plastic
18:02<Tefad>0x3857CC was worlds population in 1970
18:05<Prof_Frink>0x0000000F is the world's population next week.
18:06|-|De_Ghosty [~c4command@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Ghost by The pwnage]
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18:07<SpComb>how dire
18:07[~]SpComb falls asleep
18:08<@Bjarni><EddizuHause> <Bjarni> in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals <- i learned that a station is anything that has at least one switch <--- it's technically possible to have switches outside stations (most are removed by now and the few that's left are rarely used). It's also possible to have a station without switches (this wouldn't really make sense though, but the rules allows it). This could b
18:08<@Bjarni>e a difference between Danish and German rules
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>such a long line does not fit in my OSD on highlights...
18:09<@Bjarni>though I can only think of one location where this definition matters. Everywhere else would be the same
18:10<@Bjarni>hehe... then you have a poor client :P
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>btw, a platform without station is called "Haltepunkt" here.
18:12<@Bjarni>we actually have two terms for it. One is '"Haltepunkt" outside station area'
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18:16<Sacro>!seen SpComb
18:16<_42_>Sacro, if you can't see SpComb here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
18:16<SpComb>Sacro: pong
18:16<Sacro>SpComb: ping
18:16<@Bjarni>hey... SpComb can see into the future
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>oO
18:16<Sacro>SpComb: is there still talk of you altering your python stuffs to allow an irc client?
18:17<@Bjarni>he replied to a request sent 5 sec after the reply
18:17<SpComb>Sacro: I don't understand the question
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>like in the bash quote :p
18:17<Sacro>SpComb: i want a nice webbased irc client, and i thought you might have been working on one
18:18<SpComb>you mean write a web-browser based IRC client using SpBotII? Not today, nor tomorow, nor this week, probably not this month, ec
18:18<SpComb>I've talked about it, but never started, and don't really intend to
18:19<@Bjarni>yep, just looked up the switch I was thinking about. It's 400 meters from the station boarder, so it's outside. It's right next to a platform though... it's a funny combo since the signal in front of it (on the other side of the platform) acts as a station entrance signal without actually being one
18:21<@Bjarni>the switch is used to connect two railroads so it's only used when a DMU needs bigger repairs than the local workshop can handle or when they buy/sell rolling stock (which is pretty rare)
18:22<Ailure>bah
18:22<@Bjarni>I totally agree
18:22<Ailure>I promised myself to lay off playing openTTD until newindustries was implemented
18:22<@Bjarni>haha
18:22<Ailure>but I wnded up breaking that promise
18:23<@Bjarni>you sound like something who just declared that he would quit smoking and then leaves to buy more cigarettes
18:23<Ailure>I did hold it for about two months
18:23<Ailure>then I really started to miss openTTD
18:23<@Bjarni>but... why would you do something that silly?
18:23<Ailure>me partly being bored on that game
18:24<Ailure>and having other stuff to do heh
18:24<Ailure>I didn't want it to swallow up all my free time again :p
18:24|-|Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ac8e32d.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:26[~]SpComb shuts down myottd.net for the night
18:26<SpComb>I'll turn it back on tomorrow, and write a topic about it on the forums
18:27<@Bjarni> <Ailure> I didn't want it to swallow up all my free time again :p <-- so you started playing WoW instead? :P
18:27<Ailure>lol no
18:27<Ailure>just switching between personal programming projects like an ADHD kid on caffeine
18:27<Ailure>and then spending rest of the free time on other games
18:27<Ailure>go me
18:29<Ailure>I had a few programming ideas related to openTTD too
18:29<Ailure>but I need to improve my knowledge in C++
18:30<Ailure>Great at Java, decent at C. C++ spefic stuff is still a bit confusing. D:
18:31<dfox>C++ is confusing by design
18:31<@Bjarni>it depends on the eyes of the beholder
18:31<Ailure>haha
18:31<@Bjarni>once you get the idea, it's not that complex
18:32<Ailure>Object oriented programming is supposed to make life easier ;)
18:32<@Bjarni>and I hope to reach that level some day :P
18:32<Ailure>although I admit, at first Object programming seemed stupid and overly complex compared to traditional programming
18:32<Ailure>until I got it
18:32<Ailure>simple concepts such as encapslutation makes programming easier longterm
18:32|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-51-206.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:33<Ailure>I belive parts of the openTTD code was, or has been encapsluated
18:33|-|KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-152-231.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:33<Ailure>such as the map accessors and mutators
18:33<Ailure>or whatever it was called now
18:33[~]Sacro sighs
18:34<@Bjarni>the idea is great
18:34<@Bjarni>as long as the programmers are too
18:34<Ailure>yeah true
18:34<Ailure>and as long they get enough time :)
18:34<Ailure>the less time you get, the more programmers tend to cheat
18:35<@Bjarni>objects should make it faster to code
18:35<Ailure>...and the more spaghetti code there is
18:35<@Bjarni>decent code that is
18:35<Ailure>and it should make code easier to change
18:35<Ailure>without it breaking together
18:35<@Bjarni>I like the idea of function overloading
18:36<Ailure>I used that a quite few tiems in Java
18:36<Grey>what is function overloading?
18:36<Ailure>basically things like
18:36<Ailure>uhm
18:36<@Bjarni>how to make a good example...
18:36<Ailure>also called on
18:37<@Bjarni>say we make this function called add
18:37<Ailure>polymorphism
18:37<@Bjarni>you make add(int a, int b) {return a+b}
18:37<@Bjarni>then you make add(int a, int b, int c) {return a+b+c}
18:37<Grey>OoooOOh
18:38<Grey>Thats funky
18:38<@Bjarni>then the compiler will pick the right one based on your type and number of arguments
18:38<Grey>I'd do that as an array, just because its neater
18:38<@Bjarni>it has to be used correctly though it it will be really confusing
18:38<Grey>:P
18:38<@Bjarni>I wouldn't make a function to add two numbers :P
18:39<Grey>yes, but passing lots of variables is neater when done as an array
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>there are tricky ways to make that an arbitrary number of arguments
18:39<Grey>...
18:40<@Bjarni>the compiler has no idea if the functions will do more or less the same, so you can actually have two functions with the same name where one adds a wagon to a train and the other one clears a tile... it would just make the code damn hard to read
18:40<@Bjarni>and the diff will be rejected ;)
18:40<Ailure>heh
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, name all your functions "func" and just differentiate them through the signature :p
18:40<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: they aren't that hard... just look it up in the code and copy paste it and you are good to go
18:41<Ailure>anyway, sorta a newbish question
18:41<Ailure>but there's something spefic I want to mess around with
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>i said tricky, not hard
18:41<Ailure>where is the vehicle cost calculated
18:41<@Bjarni>right
18:41<Ailure>for when you buy a vecile
18:41<Ailure>was looking around the other day, but didn't have any luck
18:41<@Bjarni>that's somewhat simple
18:42<@Bjarni>say you build a ship
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>i mean it's not taught in the average C lecture
18:42<@Bjarni>the code to do that is in ship_cmd.cpp
18:42<Ailure>then I was kind of tired the other day
18:42<Ailure>hmm
18:42<@Bjarni>specifically CmdBuildShip()
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18:42<Ailure>I would been expecting code reusage here
18:42<@Bjarni>it has "return value;" where value is actually what you are asking for
18:42<Ailure>ah
18:42<Ailure>I look it up then
18:43<@Bjarni>then backtrace how it sets up value
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>Ailure: the code reusage part is how CmdXXX is called
18:44<+glx><@Bjarni> then you make add(int a, int b, int c) {return a+b+c} <-- I'd use {return add(a,b) + c }
18:44<@Bjarni>value = EstimateShipCost(p1);
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>which should not be of much interest
18:44<@Bjarni>Ailure: this is basically the line you wanted.... then look up EstimateShipCost()
18:45<Ailure>ah
18:45<Ailure>found it
18:45<@Bjarni>glx: yeah... but it was just a really simple example to tell what it was about. I missed ; as well and no comments and so on ;)
18:46<Ailure>well
18:46<Ailure>I had some stupid idea about how the economy would work
18:47<Ailure>modifcation
18:47<Ailure>which might be of a somewhat controversional addition
18:48<Ailure>vehicle cost would be affected by popularity
18:48|-|exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>vehicle costs should follow a supply and demand scheme
18:48<@Bjarni>controversial? You mean like you will add naked people to the finance window?
18:48|-|Grey [~Greyscale@86.160.171.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:48<Ailure>yeah true
18:48<@Bjarni>or some weird art?
18:48<Ailure>about supply and demand
18:48<Ailure>but my idea was just a simple multiplier
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>if you suddenly purchase a large number, the prices should rise significantly
18:49<@Bjarni>how should it be affected by popularity?
18:49<Ailure>...although something like where vehicles are auctioned out in case of high demand but low supply could be intresting
18:49<Ailure>well
18:49<Ailure>more you buy, the more expensive it gets :P
18:49<@Bjarni>ever heard of mass production?
18:50<Ailure>true lol
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>or it should prevent you from building any more for a period of time, so you will have to switch to less optimal engine types
18:50<Ailure>the idea wasn't to imitate reality too much
18:50<Ailure>it was just to prevent people from building 234234 of the same engine
18:50<Ailure>or aircraft model
18:50<Ailure>or whatever
18:50<@Bjarni>well
18:50|-|Grey_ [~Greyscale@86.160.171.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:50<@Bjarni>I'm pretty sure nobody will do that
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: yes, but even mass production needs time to adjust to new needs
18:50<@Bjarni>because we have a 64000 vehicle limit in the game
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>you cannot expect a prototype to be mass-produced in the first year
18:51<+glx>and you can already limit the number of vehicles
18:51<Ailure>haha true
18:51<Ailure>hey didn't someone actually reach that limit
18:51<@Bjarni>I had a bug report with cloning because somebody hit the hard limit
18:51<@Bjarni>of 64k
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18:52<@Bjarni>that was a damn crowded map
18:52<@Bjarni>I think it was 512x512 or maybe even smaller
18:52<@Bjarni>this guy had vehicles on almost all tiles
18:53<+glx>easy with boats :)
18:53<Ailure>yeah boats can overlap haha
18:53<@Bjarni>it was almost only trains
18:53<Ailure>although they shouldn't
18:54|-|ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-247.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
18:55<@Bjarni>it would be a huge task to make ships work as we would like
18:55|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0CDC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:55<Brianetta>Nah
18:55<Brianetta>Just have them both explode and sink if they collide
18:56<Ailure>well I assumed that
18:56<Ailure>or it would been done awhile ago
18:56<@Bjarni>but that's not how we would like it to work :P
18:56<Brianetta>The extra CPU for collision detection will be made up for in no time by fewer boats
18:56<Ailure>hah
18:56<Ailure>oh yeah
18:56<Ailure>I remember that
18:56<Ailure>even with a harsh ship limit
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18:56<Ailure>Brianetta's server still slowed down with ships
18:56<Ailure>due to the cpu consuming path finding
18:56<@Bjarni>that goes for all servers
18:56<Brianetta>with OPF
18:57<@Bjarni>it's not just a Brianetta issue
18:57<Ailure>I know :P
18:57<Ailure>it happened when I hosted my own server too
18:59|-|ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-247.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
18:59<Ailure>and even if the server is able to cope it, the clients connecting to it might not
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19:00<Ailure>which have happened in a few network games of mine
19:01<Sacro>Brianetta: i got my sparcstation! :D
19:01<Sacro>ooh i just noticed
19:01<Sacro>the swedish keyboard is a proper sun one
19:02<Sacro>and it has a sun optical mouse and mousemat
19:03<Brianetta>They suck
19:03<@Bjarni>great... I just noticed something. Last year some railroad tracks was replaced because they were in poor condition. Now there is a max 30 km/h due to poor condition.... wtf?
19:03<Brianetta>but the Sparcstation rocks
19:05<Sacro>Brianetta: it has an optical mosue though!
19:07<Sacro>hmmm, it can take 512MB RAM
19:07<Sacro>i wonder what type
19:07<Sacro>probably EDO
19:07<Brianetta>Sacro: Yes. I hate those ones.
19:07<Sacro>ooh NEXTSTEP looks good
19:19<Ailure>there's Sparc with swedish keyboards?
19:19<Ailure>:o
19:19<Ailure>I admit that's a type of computer I seriously been considering to have
19:19<Ailure>if I had enough money
19:20<Sacro>Ailure: yes, it has a swedish keyboard
19:20<Sacro>god knows why
19:20<Ailure>It's like
19:20<Ailure>I probably would want to have a X86 based for like Windows games
19:20<Ailure>and a SPARC workstation for everything else :P
19:20|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:21<Ailure>I find myself preferring NIX-like operating systems more and more for each day I use them
19:21<Ailure>so I don't feel as bound by the X86 platform
19:24<@Bjarni>hehe... some woman paid a company to find a job for her that matched her profile... something came up....
19:24<@Bjarni>sperm donor
19:24<@Bjarni>:D
19:24<Ailure>hahahaha
19:24|-|Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0E0B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
19:25<@Bjarni>I think that's a "money back" case
19:25<Ailure>or the woman in question was a hermaphrodite
19:25<@Bjarni>also.... "professionally sperm donor". Is that really a profession?
19:26<Sacro>err...
19:26<Sacro>http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1774933 :D
19:26<@Bjarni><Ailure> or the woman in question was a hermaphrodite <-- no... they just screwed up big time
19:26<@Bjarni>Sacro: old
19:26<@Bjarni>and still more weird than funny :P
19:26<Sacro>but sit and fart in my duck
19:27<@Bjarni>hmm
19:27<Ailure>heh
19:27<@Bjarni>Sacro makes no sense at all
19:27<@Bjarni>nothing new there :P
19:28<Ailure>every language seem to have a related language that tend to misinterpreted way off
19:28<Ailure>like with swedish and turkish
19:28<@Bjarni>Swedish and Turkish???
19:28<Ailure>yeah
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>how exactly are those "related"?
19:28<Ailure>they aren't
19:28<Ailure>swedish and english are more closely related
19:28<@Bjarni>Ailure: are you contaminated with Sacro?
19:29<Ailure>but it's was a short-timed fad to take turkish music videos
19:29<Ailure>and then attach swedish interpetions
19:29<Ailure>like with this "fart in a duck"
19:30<@Bjarni>I heard a commercial once on the radio. Some Swede went to Denmark to look for affairs... at least that's how the Dane heard it
19:30<@Bjarni>there is also the frokost<->fråkost timing
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>can you eat that?
19:31<@Bjarni>yeah
19:31<@Bjarni>one is lunch, the other is breakfast
19:31<@Bjarni>hence the timing remark
19:32<Ailure>ah yeah
19:32<@Bjarni>sounds like the Swedes get up late
19:32<Ailure>swedish for lunch is uhm
19:32<Ailure>lunch
19:32<Ailure>:)
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>oh yes, "früh"
19:33<@Bjarni>last time I went deep into Sweden, I ran into a closed shop. It was closed due to "semester"... only Swedes would do nothing during semester :P
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>"what time is it?" - "tuesday" - "not that specific, i just wanted to know summer or winter semester"
19:36<Sacro>half mittwoch
19:36<Sacro>err
19:37<Sacro>halp
19:38|-|Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38<@Bjarni><piro> well, irc is the realm of dictatorships, not democracy
19:38<@Bjarni>so be nice to me
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: b, not p
19:39<Sacro>i was close
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>close is not enough
19:40|-|Sacro kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [learn how to spell]
19:40<Ailure>[02:33] <Bjarni> last time I went deep into Sweden, I ran into a closed shop. It was closed due to "semester"... only Swedes would do nothing during semester :P
19:40<Ailure>haha yeah
19:40<@Bjarni>NOT close enough :P
19:40|-|Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:40<Ailure>the other way around confused me while learning english
19:40<Sacro>:(
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19:42<Eddi|zuHause>what does "semester" mean in sweden?
19:43<ln->holiday
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>"holiday" is a weird word also
19:44<@Bjarni>yeah
19:44<@Bjarni>so is the concept
19:44<Ailure>holiday
19:44<@Bjarni>I mean... time to do nothing?
19:44<Ailure>no
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>there is not much "holy" about most of those days
19:44<Ailure>lots of time for openTTD :)
19:44<Ailure>TtD is weird like that
19:44<Ailure>I can get very bored at it
19:45<Ailure>but after a few week i'm playing it obessivly again
19:45<@Bjarni>so... how many young people get drunk during their "holy days" these days?
19:45<Ailure>I never gotten drunk myself so I dunno
19:45<Ailure>but almost all of my clasmates in the gymansium got drunk each weekend
19:45<Ailure>or at least, so it seemed
19:47<@Bjarni>hehe... just found a file called snowball.jpg on my HD. I didn't remember it so I opened it and it's some stranger making a snowball
19:47<@Bjarni>...
19:47<@Bjarni>turned out that the scanner software installed it as an example file
19:47<Ailure>hey, at least it could been lots worse
19:47<Ailure>with that name
19:47<@Bjarni>it could?
19:47<Ailure>there's something called snowballing
19:47<Ailure>i'm not gonna explain what it is
19:47<Ailure>just google it if you're curious
19:47<@Bjarni>maybe I don't want to know :P
19:48<@Bjarni>considering you called it worse
19:48<Ailure>heh
19:48<@Bjarni>heh... reminds me of when I found sofia.jpg and didn't remember it either
19:49<@Bjarni>turned out to be the Dm3 called Sofia :)
19:49<@Bjarni>not to mention the road train driving in the town of Kathrine
19:49<Ailure>oh
19:49<Ailure>haha the train
19:49<Ailure>haha
19:49<Ailure>just looked it up
19:50<Ailure>never seen one of thoose
19:50<@Bjarni>They drive between Kiruna and Narvik, so it's not that many people, who have seen them
19:50<@Bjarni>they are nice engines though
19:50<@Bjarni>but kind of big
19:51<@Bjarni>35 meters and 286 tons
19:51<Ailure>most trains I see are either RcX trains
19:51<Ailure>Öresundst$BiH(B
19:51<Ailure>or X2000 trains
19:51<Ailure>and lately, also p$BiH(Bat$BiH(B
19:52<Ailure>I remember seeing them in my childhood, but I hadn't started seeing them around here until last year oddly
19:52<ln->wtf p$Bih language is that?
19:52<Ailure>Swedish
19:52<Ailure>and with RCX
19:52<ln->they didn't use dollar signs in swedish last time i was learning it.
19:52<Ailure>I mean anything between RC1-RC6
19:52<Ailure>:P
19:53<ln->especially not in the middle of words.
19:53<Ailure>oh
19:53<Ailure>that's encoding issue then
19:53<Ailure>Probably my fault
19:54<ln->kunde den vara utf-7 eller nånting sådant..
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of weird encoding is that?
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>but utf-7 is more like "+abcxyz-" i thought
19:55<Ailure>I suspect I'm just sending ANSI
19:55<Ailure>and your client was expecting UTF-8 encoding or something
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19:56<Eddi|zuHause>that usually gives other results...
19:56<ln->jo, men den borde autodetektera latin-1 i alla fall.
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>like chinese letters
19:56<Ailure>visserligen
19:56<Ailure>and heh
19:56<Ailure>maybe I need to upgrade my client
19:57<Ailure>I'm using some old version of mIRC I hadn't gotten around upgrading
19:57<Ailure>Thought I wouldn't mind switching to a more open source client similar to mIRC
19:58<Ailure>hmm
19:58<Ailure>it could be Windows-1252 too
19:58<Ailure>unlikely though
19:59<Ailure>there's lots of charcther encodings
19:59<Ailure>usually variations on ANSI
19:59<ln->nej, windows-1252 är för det mesta densamma som latin-1.
19:59<Ailure>ah ok
19:59<ln->speciellt ä, ö, å har samma värden.
19:59<Ailure>UTF-8 is same as ASCII for the first seven bits
20:00<Ailure>well ok, ASCII is only seven bits ;)
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>most of the time, windows-1252 texts are mislabeled as latin-1
20:00<Ailure>and ANSI or any encoding related to it
20:00<Ailure>is mislabelled as ASCII
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>but there are only a handful of characters different
20:01<Ailure>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437
20:01<Ailure>this is probably one of the strangest variations
20:01<Ailure>apart from null, the control charcthers was replaced by silly symbols
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>why is that silly?
20:03<Ailure>You rarely see them honestly used :P
20:03<Ailure>I only seen the smiley face used in the game ZZT and sometimes when hell breaks loose
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>when viewing hex dumps they are far more useful than hearing "beep" all the time
20:03<Ailure>haha true
20:03<Ailure>the bell charcther
20:03<Ailure>oh god
20:03<Ailure>I used to have fun with that
20:03|-|tokai [~tokai@p54B848C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:03<Ailure>I made a looping batfile with the bell charcther being printed out constantly
20:04<Ailure>lots of beeping
20:04<Ailure>:)
20:04<Ailure>On really oldschool computers, a bell would been ringing instead
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>i know someone who kept sending that character to the printer :p
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>(which then also beeped)
20:05<Ailure>Often it was used for "Ok i'm done, give me more input"
20:05<Ailure>and hahaha
20:05<@Bjarni>Rc is awesome
20:05<Ailure>what kind of printer was that?
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea
20:05<Ailure>and if you're talking about the engine, it is :)
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20:05<@Bjarni>it's stuck with 16 2/3 Hz though
20:06<@Bjarni>they managed to get X2000 to drive to Copenhagen, hence they can drive on 50 Hz
20:06<Ailure>heh
20:06<Ailure>if that Swedish trainset was ever done D:
20:06<ln->did they manage to drive it back to sweden?
20:06<@Bjarni>:P
20:06<Sacro>night peoples
20:06<@Bjarni>yeah
20:06<Ailure>I want to play with Rc
20:06<Ailure>ah
20:07<@Bjarni>I got one in my drawer
20:07<Ailure>when did they try that?
20:07<Ailure>heh, a model?
20:07<@Bjarni>yeah
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>Ailure: i think CP437 was the default in DOS
20:07<@Bjarni>I need to fix it though
20:07<@Bjarni>can't drive at the moment
20:07<@Bjarni>a "friend" of mine wrecked it
20:07<Ailure>Eddit: Yes it was
20:08<@Bjarni> <Ailure> when did they try that? <-- every day. It's in the schedule
20:08<Ailure>:o
20:08<@Bjarni>they also has both Danish and Swedish ATC
20:08<Ailure>heh
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>and if someone switched to 850, you got all weird characters instead of box borders
20:08<Ailure>I never travelled with X2000
20:08<Ailure>so I hadn't paid much attention to it's schedule
20:08<ln->Bjarni: what planes is SAS using between Copenhagen and Turku at the moment?
20:08<Ailure>since it's more expensive than the regular trains
20:09<@Bjarni>ln-: I have no idea, but it's not Dash-8 Q 400
20:09<@Bjarni>they grounded all of them until they are fully aware of what's going on with them
20:10<@Bjarni>and some expert went on TV today and told them to discard all of them if they want to save their image
20:10<@Bjarni>Bombadier has a really bad case in this :s
20:10<Ailure>ah yeah
20:10<ln->i've flown with one once... it survived.
20:10<Ailure>the aircraft with high crash rate
20:11<ln->but why the hell are they "all" suddenly breaking up within few weeks, even outside SAS?
20:12<ln->hmmm.. http://www.finavia.fi/lentoasema_turku?pg=flights
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20:14<@Bjarni>http://tog.photos.me.uk/c1025845.html <-- X2000 in Denmark
20:14<Ailure>heh
20:14<Ailure>most, if not all go through where I live
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20:15<ln->Bjarni: do you smoke?
20:16<@Bjarni>no
20:16<ln->surprising
20:16<@Bjarni>http://tog.photos.me.uk/p41532703.html <-- hehe... look at the map :D
20:16<Ailure>wth
20:16<Ailure>where is that
20:16<Ailure>xD
20:17<Ailure>is it upside down?
20:17<@Bjarni>yes
20:17<Ailure>ahahaha
20:17<Ailure>no wonder I couldn't recnoize it
20:17<@Bjarni>so it's Germany on the top, you are to the left and so on
20:18<Ailure>yeah
20:18<Ailure>H$BgT(Bsleholm should be on that mpa even
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20:18<Ailure>the rightmost green line
20:18<Ailure>or leftmost in this upside down map
20:18<@Bjarni>you really should fix your encoding
20:18<Ailure>is the line going through my town
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>must be an australian map manufacturer :p
20:18<Ailure>Hassleholm
20:18<Ailure>:P
20:18<@Bjarni>H$BgT(Bsleholm <--- I sort of can read that, but it's still annoying
20:19<Ailure>its funny too
20:19<Ailure>the building I live and study in
20:19<Ailure>is called "Norra station"
20:19<Ailure>but ironically, it have nothing to do with trains, apart from being next to a train station
20:19<Ailure>It's mostly IT education here
20:20<@Bjarni>huh
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>there are entire villages here that are called like "XYZ Station"
20:20<@Bjarni>I have a desktop image of Nora Station from Sweden
20:20<Ailure>...seriously?
20:20<@Bjarni>yes
20:21<Ailure>hmm
20:21<@Bjarni>well, I have a bunch of images and it selects a random one every 30th minute
20:21<Ailure>Can you upload it somewhere haha
20:21<Ailure>ah
20:21<Ailure>it might be totally unrelated
20:21<Ailure>since there might be more than one place with that nae
20:21<Ailure>*name
20:22<@Bjarni>http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/Nora040727.jpg
20:23<Ailure>yep unrelated
20:23<Ailure>can tell right away :)
20:23<Ailure>there's no lake nearby
20:23<ln->zomfg, a the-kind-of-dmu-that-were-also-in-use-in-finland.
20:23<@Bjarni>but your place has more buildings around it
20:23<Ailure>dunno about the age
20:24<Ailure>of that photo
20:24<Ailure>but I'm quite sure this line here been electrified for a really long time now
20:24<Ailure>so that would count it out too
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>where is the "M" part of "DMU" there?
20:24<Ailure>it looks like it was taken in the 80's
20:24<Ailure>Eddi: Haha good point
20:24<Ailure>it's more of a railcar
20:25<Ailure>or whatever they were called
20:25<@Bjarni>that type of DMU... when the Swedish shortlines closed 50 years ago, a lot of Danish lines closed too. To avoid closure, one railroad went gravedigging in Sweden and got some of those DMUs
20:25<@Bjarni>other railroads considered that to be a good idea and more went to Sweden to get them since they are actually pretty good
20:26<@Bjarni>anyway
20:26<@Bjarni>time for bed
20:26<ln->"bed"
20:27<@Bjarni>goodnight (or what's left of it)
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 25 00:00:36 2007