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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-03

---Logopened Wed Oct 03 00:00:47 2007
01:05<mcbane>what happened to hydlaa?
01:06<mcbane>wrong window..
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02:28<TrueBrain>wrong person
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02:36<TheMask96>wrong brain :)
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 03 03:24:46 2007
---Logopened Wed Oct 03 03:24:48 2007
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03:24|-|Ekipa kanalu #openttd: Wszystkich: 75 |-| +op [4] |-| +voice [1] |-| normalnych [70]
03:26|-|Kanal #openttd zsynchronizowany w 86 sekundy
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04:03<dihedral>morning
04:04<TrueBrain>morning
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04:12[~]Purno pokes boekabart
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04:31<dihedral>TrueBrain: i have a little q for you...
04:32<TrueBrain>oh-oh
04:32<dihedral>is building "teleports" by making use of the station spread and removing the unused station parts inbetween considered a bug?
04:33<Alltaken>dihedral: its a feature ;)
04:33<TrueBrain>dihedral: its a feature ;)
04:33<dihedral>just checking - just because it's done a lot on my servers, and some people get slightly annoyed because of it
04:38<Rubidium>probably disabling non-uniform stations removes the option to do that
04:38<Rubidium>s/option/possibility/
04:39<boekabart>Purno: speak
04:41<dihedral>Rubidium: i dont want to stop people doing so - i just want to know if you guys were thinking of changing it at any time
04:41<dihedral>:-)
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04:42<boekabart>couldn't he limit the max station spread on his server settings?
04:43<Rubidium>unless you limit it to 1 or 2 you can still make those "teleports"
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04:48<gynterk>hey is there a status page for my ottd serveR?
04:48<gynterk>like current companies and stuff
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04:58<gynterk>google is broken :(
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05:36<SpComb>gynterk: there's various ways to do that, but nothing built into OpenTTD as such
05:37<SpComb>MyOTTD provides that info for MyOTTD servers, or you can use something like http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/wiki/LiveDemo for your own servers
05:38<gynterk>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25545#451840
05:38<gynterk>whats that ?
05:40<SpComb>a patch that has OpenTTD write out the info every month, querying with UDP or reading from the console are better, and exist in the current versions of OpenTTD
05:40<gynterk>querying info each time when page refreshes ?
05:41<SpComb>yes
05:41<gynterk>quite rape to game server
05:41<SpComb>every time anyone ever opens up the ingame server browser, they query each and every server on that list for some info
05:41<SpComb>although getting more detailed info on the companies etc may actually require something more intensive... not sure
05:41<gynterk>hmm
05:41<SpComb>and anyways, if that bothers you, you can implement caching yourself
05:42<gynterk>basically
05:42<gynterk>web status page is the same as in game
05:42<gynterk>only in web
05:42<gynterk>using same packets
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05:43<SpComb>the game uses UDP packets to get that info, which is what dihedral's openttdlib does as well (I assume it uses PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO, PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_GET_NEWGRFS)
05:43<gynterk>yes
05:43<gynterk>i found that thread already from forum
05:43<SpComb>it doesn't look identical to the ingame one, but it's the same info
05:44<gynterk>but, is there a way to make statistics ?
05:44<gynterk>that means writing data after each change
05:44<gynterk>monthly data about finaces and running data about vechiles
05:45<SpComb>historical data? Not sure if anybody's implemented that
05:45<SpComb>it's possible, of course
05:46<gynterk>but that would require somekind data structure and mysql is out question
05:46<gynterk>log files
05:46<gynterk>would be easies
05:46<SpComb>depends on your needs, if I did it (as part of MyOTTD), I would definately use postgresql
05:46<gynterk>and parsin those later
05:48<gynterk>anyway, I'm gona write a stats page :P
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05:48<gynterk>and not in PHP since I don't like it
05:48<SpComb>Python...
05:48<gynterk>haxe
05:48<gynterk>neko
05:49<gynterk>http://www.haxe.org/intro
05:49<gynterk>since I don't like apache either
05:49<SpComb>lighttpd :)
05:50<gynterk>i use Cherokee myself :P
05:50[~]SpComb is a LLPP person
05:50<SpComb>Linux + Lighttpd + Python/Pylons + Postgresql
05:50<gynterk>haxe has excellent build in template engine
05:51<gynterk>fast and good
05:51<gynterk>built in*
05:52<SpComb>first time I've heard of it, sounds interesting, but I'm too deep in python to get out
05:52<SpComb>not that I particularly want to get out, I'm slowly starting to get the hang of Pylons
05:52<gynterk>Its easy to me since it's based on ecma and I have programmed Actionscript for 7-8 years now
05:53<gynterk>and you have to compile web pages
05:54<gynterk>again makes things faster
05:54<gynterk>xml & socket support is excellent too, mysql, postgres, sqsLite
05:56<gynterk>does anyone know good freeware socket workbench ?
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05:58<gynterk>whats the address for master server anyway :P ?
05:59<gynterk>and good thing about haXe is
05:59<gynterk>it's compatible with flash
05:59<gynterk>that means live stats graphs would be possible
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06:00<gynterk>hmm
06:01<gynterk>what port it uses for those udp packets?
06:02<Ammler>3978?
06:02<Ammler>!openttd port
06:02<_42_>Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
06:02<Ammler>!openttd ports
06:03<gynterk>!openttd masterserver
06:03<Ammler>hmm, why do you need masterserver?
06:03<Ammler>i guess its master.openttd.org
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06:04<dihedral>gynterk: what kind of stats are you looking for
06:05<gynterk>nah I'm not looking
06:05<gynterk>i wanna write ones in haXe
06:05<gynterk>since I'm bored
06:05<gynterk>but is eol \r\n for each packet ?
06:05<dihedral>each packet has a certain amount of data
06:06<dihedral>you dont stop reading until you have that data
06:06<gynterk>i mean writing
06:07<dihedral>have a look at the code :-)
06:07<gynterk>is it hard to say :D ?
06:09<dihedral>it is the easiest way to find out :-)
06:09<dihedral>and not that hard to read
06:09<gynterk>i know you know :D
06:10<gynterk>btw about those packets, where should I get those constants, from source again :D ?
06:10<dihedral>http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L641
06:10<dihedral>the constants resolve to integer values...
06:12<dihedral>http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLibPacket.php#L23
06:12<gynterk>thanks
06:12<gynterk>but about that history thing
06:12<gynterk>anyone up to write a patch for it ?
06:13<dihedral>what history thing? you mean keeping logs?
06:13<gynterk>yes
06:13<gynterk>logs of everything
06:13<gynterk>for makin statistics
06:13<gynterk>like when train reached to station, how much was profit and so on
06:13<dihedral>you cannot get that data via udp packets
06:13<gynterk>when train created what were settings etc, train changes, crashes and so on
06:14<gynterk>i know
06:14<gynterk>that requires .patch to OpenTTD
06:14<dihedral>well - i dont think you want to get that messy with OpenTTD code :-D
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06:23<SpComb>you could log all the network multiplayer actions, although I'm not sure if things like trains reaching a station cause those
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06:28<dihedral>i doubt it SpComb
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06:28<SpComb>you could rewrite the game engine in haxe...
06:28<gynterk>not a good idea :D
06:28<SpComb>then it could connect to any OpenTTD server as a spectator and log it :)
06:28<gynterk>wait a sec
06:28<gynterk>hmm
06:28<gynterk>:D
06:30<dihedral>add additional output to the console and get autopilot to read that data :-D
06:31<gynterk>but
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06:31<gynterk>the sent packet to server should just look like 0 ?
06:33<dihedral>nope
06:33<dihedral>missing the packet length there
06:33<dihedral>:-)
06:34<gynterk>how should raw packet look then :P ?
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06:39<gynterk>ah
06:39<gynterk>size is first 2 bytes ?
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06:43<dihedral>yep
06:46<gynterk>hmm
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06:46<gynterk>can't find where size is set
06:46<gynterk>ah
06:46<gynterk>ofc
06:46<gynterk>preparetosend
06:48<SpComb>http://misc.marttila.de/browser/pyottd/udp.py <-- python queryer à la construct
06:59<gynterk>i still can't get it :S
06:59<gynterk>wtf
06:59<gynterk>I'm dumb today
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07:10<gynterk>is this packet in hex?
07:10<gynterk>like 000303 for UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO?
07:11<dihedral>gynterk: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLibPacket.php#L130 ( $d is a simple integer )
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07:23<gynterk>if i send 000303 it says connection error..
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07:34<gynterk>i can't send any packets oo 3978
07:34<gynterk>to *
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07:50<SpComb>gynterk: it's a binary protocol
07:51<SpComb>it's "\×00\x03\x03" for UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO (is that the correct endian?)
07:51<gynterk>should be 030003
07:51<gynterk>afaik
07:51<gynterk>at least WPE showed me this packed when i logged from game
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07:52<gynterk>x is 5c ?
07:52<gynterk>Žnah
07:52<gynterk>wait a sec
07:52<gynterk>whats that x?
07:58<gynterk>but
07:59<gynterk>when I make server in my machine, and use Socket Workbench to connect localhost:3978 it'll return error
08:00<gynterk>server forefully rejects my connection
08:00<gynterk>force *
08:02<gynterk>if i connect to 3979 i can see the chat :P
08:06<gynterk>anyone ?
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08:07<gynterk>anyone ?
08:07<gynterk>i'm gona cry soon
08:09<gynterk>i have OpenTTD server running but script says 82.165.254.161
08:09<gynterk>fk
08:09<gynterk>script says Failed to connect on localhost:3378
08:10<Eddi|zuHause2>but it's 3978
08:10<gynterk>omfg
08:11<gynterk>still same...
08:12<gynterk>whats server_bind_ip = ?
08:13<Eddi|zuHause2>if you have multiple network devices
08:13<Eddi|zuHause2>you can choose the one your server listens to
08:13<gynterk>ah ok
08:13<Eddi|zuHause2>you should usually not need this
08:13<gynterk>but still can't get data via 3078
08:13<gynterk>3978 *
08:13<gynterk>odd
08:14<gynterk>windows firewall is turned off too
08:14<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe you should turn windows off :p
08:14<gynterk>communication via 3979 works
08:15<@Bjarni><gynterk> i'm gona cry soon
08:15<@Bjarni><EddizuHause2> maybe you should turn windows off :p
08:15<@Bjarni>I think Eddi|zuHause2 found a solution to avoid crying ;D
08:15<@Bjarni> <gynterk> windows firewall is turned off too
08:15<@Bjarni>huh...
08:15<@Bjarni>looks like a line overtook another line
08:15<@Bjarni>!logs
08:15<SpComb>Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd )
08:15<Eddi|zuHause2>looks out of order here, too ;)
08:16<gynterk>but still
08:16<gynterk>any solutions why I can't get data via 3978 ?
08:16<@Bjarni>same issue in the log
08:16[~]Bjarni wonders how this happened
08:17<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe you used TCP instead of UDP? or you block UDP packages?
08:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the fault must be on your end, Bjarni...
08:18<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe you need to cry or something :p
08:18<@Bjarni>:P
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08:19<gynterk>how could i block UDP if i don't even have software to do it ?
08:19<@Bjarni>maybe those 3 lines were sent in a package of their own and the router decided on sending the last first (QoS is enabled)
08:20<@Bjarni>after all I don't have 1 GB/s internet access, so I can access the router faster than the router can send it
08:20<gynterk>localhost
08:22<@Bjarni>http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=10143&cn=52&d=100 <-- cool
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08:25<Rubidium>gynterk: a socket tool usually cannot send to UDP sockets... it assumes the socket to be TCP
08:26<Rubidium>and because there is not TCP port listening at port 3978, it'll receive a connection error.
08:27<gynterk>yes
08:27<gynterk>i agree
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08:42<SpComb>ugh, parsing OpenTTD dates...
08:43<Rubidium>what? They're simple ;)
08:43<SpComb>anything that requires you to write your own date/time manipulation code is silly
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08:44<+glx>no need to write it, just convert the OTTD one to the language you are using
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08:46<Rubidium>SpComb: means python doesn't understand the format...
08:46<Rubidium>but what could be more complex than days since "epoch"?
08:48<SpComb>aha, datetime.date actually does have a .fromordinal() where 1 = Jan 1st 1AD
08:48<gynterk>does the server send me binary data?
08:49<SpComb>what does a value of 1 mean for OpenTTD?
08:49<Rubidium>gynterk: depends on the kind of data
08:49<Rubidium>SpComb: 1-1-0 IIRC
08:49<Rubidium>1th of January year 0
08:49<gynterk>Rubidium: UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER
08:50<SpComb>so I need to subtract some magic number from it to compensate for the first year
08:50<Rubidium>366 or 365
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08:51<SpComb>is year zero a leap year?
08:51<ln->year 0 didn't exist.
08:51<dihedral>lol
08:51<SpComb>ln-: then why does OpenTTD have a representation for it? :/&
08:52<Rubidium>ln-: really... the Gregorian calendar wasn't invented back then
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>apart from the fact that the calculation is 7 years off anyway
08:52<SpComb>dihedral: trying to parse the date value using a python stdlib function that takes 1 = Jan 1st 1AD
08:52<dihedral>at what times can i get a (kicked by server) message (apart from someone issuing rcon)
08:52<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: probably due to Julian calendar being changed to Gregorian
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>the calculation when jesus was born was done by some monks in the 5th century
08:53<Rubidium>dihedral: you cheating
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>and it is known they were a few years off
08:53<ln->Rubidium: but the gregorian calendar does not have year 0.
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>the julian->gregorian calendar thing just affected about 2 weeks
08:53<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: probably because they didn't want to affect it by 7 years and 2 weeks
08:54<+glx>10 days disappeared IIRC
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>glx: depends when the country switched
08:54<ln->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_0
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the julian calender was about 1 day off every 100 years
08:56<dihedral>Rubidium: the copy and past patch... just found out
08:56<dihedral>when spectating and trying to paste
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>that's why the gregorian calender skips 3 leap years in every 400 years period
08:56<Rubidium>poor soul... not my problem...
08:57<dihedral>just thought i'd mention it :-)
08:57<dihedral>i dont use it, someone else did and got kicked, and nobody was around who could have done that with rcon - so i was thinking perhaps someone got hold of the rcon pw
08:57<dihedral>but that thankfully did not happen :-)
09:02<SpComb>dihedral: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/xml.php?api=search&type=grfidlist&q=6D620401,%204A430000,%20535A0501,%206D620004,%206D620601,%204A530101
09:03<SpComb>I asked eis_os about the API, so he implemented that today
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09:08<SpComb>nope, it's apparently not that simple
09:08<SpComb>is "the proleptic Gregorian ordinal, where January 1 of year 1 has ordinal 1" the same kind of thing that OpenTTD uses?
09:10<Rubidium>that is a good question
09:10<SpComb>the dates are almost right, but not quite
09:11<Rubidium>what's "not quite"?
09:11<gynterk>is day speed changeable from config ?
09:12<Rubidium>no
09:12<gynterk>but is it possible to make it changeable ?
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09:12<SpComb>1960-01-01 is 715875 in the protocol, and date(1960, 1, 1).toordinal() is 715510
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09:12<Eddi|zuHause>there exists a daylength patch
09:12<Rubidium>SpComb: what's the difference?
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: so you are 365 days off
09:13<SpComb>hmm, that's 365
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>and that tells you?
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09:13<gynterk>1 year off
09:13<SpComb>closer than I thoguht, I must have typoed something when playing around with it earlier
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09:19<SpComb>heh, there's one server that's currently in May 12102
09:19<SpComb>Python's date only handles years up to 9999, but I guess I'll be able to live with that
09:22<Rubidium>... where can I post bugreports for MyOTTD ;)
09:22<SpComb>here
09:22<SpComb>actually, there's a trac with a ticket management system, but I never look at it
09:22<SpComb>and the 9999-12-31 thing isn't a bug, it's a documented limitation
09:22<SpComb>206.130.122.71:3979: 1950-2010 Hard !NoAir - 512x512 - 0.5.1 - date:[1950-01-01 @ 9999-12-31]
09:25<Rubidium>it's a bug, because it doesn't obey OTTD's documented limitation!
09:26[~]SpComb labels it wontfix, closes the bug report and blacklists Rubidium's IP range
09:27<Rubidium>blacklisting as in ALL IP traffic?
09:27<dihedral>SpComb: what is with that url?
09:27<SpComb>dihedral: you can query GRFCrawler by GRFID and get back a bunch of info about those GRFs
09:28<SpComb>useful for any kind of NewGRF listing
09:28<dihedral>true - but i either query the game or a cache file....
09:28<dihedral>or the other way round
09:29<gynterk>btw
09:29<gynterk>does UDP_SERVER_DETAIL_INFO send ending year ?
09:29<dihedral>no
09:30<dihedral>you get http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/docs/OpenTTDLib/tutorial_OpenTTDLib.serverinfo.pkg.html this from an info packet
09:30<dihedral>http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/docs/OpenTTDLib/tutorial_OpenTTDLib.serverdetail.pkg.html this from a detail packet
09:31<SpComb>dihedral: GRFCrawler gives you screenshots, download URLs, Author info, etc
09:31<dihedral>nice...
09:32<dihedral>yes - ok - that might be worth it :-D
09:32<dihedral>thank you SpComb
09:32<dihedral>i'll get it into OpenTTDLib :-)
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09:33<Rubidium>dihedral: how does it handle "old" versions of the packets?
09:34<Rubidium>or rather, does it handle them?
09:34<SpComb>what are the different vehicle/station types? Train, Truck, Bus, Plane, Ship?
09:34<SpComb>I mean, in what order are they?
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09:53<SpComb>ok, got DetailsInfo working, now for NewGrfsInfo
09:55<dihedral>Rubidium: start here: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L641
10:00<dihedral>though i dont catch version in PacketServerDetailInfo
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10:31<SpComb>http://pb.marttila.de/170 <-- http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/daemon/udp.py
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10:32<SpComb>should contain full support for the UDP protocol
10:36<dihedral>why are you hardcoding grf id's and md5sums?
10:36<dihedral>i mean into the code itself?
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10:48<@Belugas>dihedral, who are you asking the question?
10:48<dihedral>SpComb
10:49<dihedral>but nevermind
10:49<@Belugas>he does not
10:49<@Belugas>the code is in udp.py
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10:50<dihedral>right - then i was looking at the wrong thing
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10:50<skidd13>hi
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11:42<Wolf01>hello
11:43<gynterk>lo
11:43<SpComb>dihedral: the first site is just the output of the script, which is a bit python-ish
11:44<dihedral>:-P
11:44<SpComb>but roughly 300 lines of code to implement an asyncronous client for the OpenTTD UDP protocol
11:44<Ailure>hmm
11:45<SpComb>and it didn't take me very long either, although I did copy the detail and newgrf structure from your PHP code
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12:00<dihedral>your welcome :-)
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12:12[~]SpComb ponders some big changes to the MyOTTD code/structure/site
12:13<SpComb>I need to make the server info page more viewable, a bunch of random-width tables below eachother with <h1>s in between smells
12:13<SpComb>I was pondering some kind of tabbed interface
12:14<SpComb>dihedral: where did you get the little icons/images that you use in OpenTTDLib?
12:15<dihedral>i took a screenshot and edited them
12:15<dihedral>feel free to take them :-)
12:15<SpComb>how are they stored in OpenTTD itself?
12:15<dihedral>i have no idea what so ever
12:15<SpComb>I can't find any resource files, they must be stored as tables in the source code or something
12:16<gynterk>SpComb: tables?
12:16<gynterk>css is your friend
12:18<dihedral>lol gynterk ....
12:18<dihedral>read that line again to the end
12:18<SpComb>I guess the images are stored in openttd.grf
12:19<SpComb>what's the license on them?
12:19<gynterk>[20:16:16] <SpComb> I need to make the server info page more viewable, a bunch of random-width tables below eachother with <h1>s in between smells
12:19<SpComb>dihedral: can you give me a .zip/.tar.gz of the images?
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12:19<gynterk>not the resource one :P
12:19<SpComb>gynterk: indeed, I want to replace the tables with something else
12:19<gynterk>css
12:19<gynterk>divs
12:19<gynterk>spans
12:20<gynterk>feel free to go :D
12:20<SpComb>yes, but it won't magically make itself look nice
12:20<gynterk>fancy blinking buttons
12:20<SpComb>besides, there's plenty of things that you still need tables for
12:20<gynterk>like ?
12:20<SpComb>like, I imagine, the list of companies
12:20<dihedral>gynterk: tables are needed at times
12:20<dihedral>an actual table!!
12:20<dihedral>http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/images
12:20<gynterk>tou can list companies in spans for example
12:20<gynterk>or <p>
12:21<SpComb>in such a way that the various bits of info line up nicely?
12:21<dihedral>all the "\d_vst_[dark|light].png"
12:21<SpComb>at the point where you give each piece a class and set fixed widths for them all, you could just as well use a table
12:21<dihedral>gynterk: have a look at http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/wiki/LiveDemo
12:21<dihedral>and tell me again you never need tables :-)
12:21<gynterk>SpComb its possible to write css good as with tables
12:21<gynterk>but takes time
12:22<dihedral>gynterk: you use tables when your are actually needing a table!!
12:22<SpComb>I use divs for the whole-page layout, but things like a list of companies is best done with a table
12:22<gynterk>dihedral: agree, and you need table there thou
12:22<gynterk>would be the best way
12:22<gynterk>so i conq myself :P
12:22<gynterk>tables on that stat page are good :P
12:22<SpComb>the only tables on http://terom.myottd.lan:9160/ are those two that you can see
12:23<dihedral>you like talking before thinking - i do the same - i think Rubidium here could sing a song of that :-P
12:23<gynterk>tables are ment to list data
12:23<gynterk>and thats what they do there
12:23<SpComb>and a list of companies is a list of data
12:23<gynterk>not to design a web page
12:23<gynterk>:P
12:24<SpComb>dihedral: but, an archive of the icons?
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12:26<dihedral>download a package of OpenTTDLib...
12:26<SpComb>good point
12:26<dihedral>:-P
12:28<gynterk>next version of openttd server inf packet should contain ending year too...
12:30<Rubidium>it's not as if there's space for that
12:31<dihedral>how much space is left Rubidium (i know it depends on server name etc...) but roughly?
12:31<Rubidium>something in the order of a few bytes
12:32<Rubidium>worst case that is
12:32<Rubidium>but that should be obvious the only "way" to consider it when wanting to add new stuff
12:32<SpComb>what are the vst_light.gif's for?
12:32<dihedral>but it seems like the DETAIL packet holds a lot more data
12:33<dihedral>SpComb: one is for a light image one is a dark image, depending on your background etc
12:33<Rubidium>the GRFs take quite a lot of data space
12:33<dihedral>true
12:34<dihedral>is there anyway grf could be moved completely to it's own request?
12:34<Rubidium>that requires two queries to each server and *much* more code to handle dropped packets and such
12:35<dihedral>right
12:38<gynterk>how many status page scripts are there already :D ?
12:38<gynterk>billion ?
12:38<Rubidium>at least 3, of which 2 are in PHP and one in Python
12:39<gynterk>hmm k
12:39<Rubidium>then there's the masterserver (or rather the update component of the serverlist), which is written in C++ (so it's technically not a script)
12:39<gynterk>I'll write that log patch if i get a time
12:39<gynterk>in what openttd is writte in ?
12:40<Rubidium>C++
12:40<gynterk>good
12:40<Rubidium>well... C+ is more like it
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12:48<gynterk>oh and it would be good if you could put signals in stations...
12:48<gynterk>you can fit 2 trains on each long station lane
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12:51<Digitalfox>TrueBrain: the developers blog is giving errors http://blog.openttd.org/
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12:52<+glx>Digitalfox: known
12:53<Digitalfox>ok glx :)
12:53<TrueBrain>Digitalfox: is because we switched back to Apache, as Lighttpd tends to get the server on its knees
12:53<Digitalfox>ok TrueBrain, i didn't know you were aware :)
12:54<TrueBrain>I am always happy if people report problems :)
12:54<dihedral>did you look at the 0production stuff TrueBrain :-)
12:54<TrueBrain> @kick dihedral go fetch :p
12:54<dihedral>:-P
12:55<TrueBrain>here Digitalfox
12:55<dihedral>thanks for the hint
12:55<Digitalfox>It's working again TrueBrain, thanks for fixing ;)
12:56<TrueBrain>glx: and php in devs.openttd.org works also
12:56<Digitalfox>One more question is newports brach being merged for 0.6 or the newairports aren't ready yet to be included in 0.6?
12:56<+glx>not for my account ;)
12:57<TrueBrain>how about now?
12:58<+glx>works now
12:58<+glx>thanks
12:58<TrueBrain>np :)
12:58<TrueBrain>sorry it took so long ;)
12:59<gynterk>is there a list of translators somewhere ?
13:02<gynterk>oh and could it be possible to make train stop in station only if this station produces the materials which train has a FREE cargo space to carry
13:06<dihedral>are any grfs known to (when loaded) be a bit of a cpu eater?
13:08<Sionide>gynterk, you can put non-stop orders in so trains will go straight through stations not in their order list
13:09<gynterk>yes
13:09<gynterk>but if TTDP nonstop handling isn't enabled in server
13:10<gynterk>then this doesn't work for me
13:10<Sionide>ah
13:11<Ammler>omg, there are server without set this option?
13:11<Ammler>gynterk: speak with the admin...
13:12<Ammler>first thing, when you join a server is checking the settings
13:12<gynterk>well sad
13:13<gynterk>but admin speaks only german
13:13<gynterk>:D
13:13<Ammler>oh, and greetings the others...
13:13<Ammler>say to him: "Schalt bitte TTDParch non-stop händling ein, danke."
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13:16<gynterk>but still
13:16<Ammler>not sure, but it could be "new_nonstop true"
13:16<gynterk>I wonder how hard is to make that log patch
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13:17<Ammler>and most non-english guys do understand more then one language...
13:18<gynterk>I understand German
13:18<gynterk>but speaking is a problem :D
13:19<Ammler>oh yeah, I understand, same with me and my english
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13:38<SpComb>where could I dig up the RGB values of the various company colours?
13:39<SpComb>although crap, the details packet doesn't include the company colour
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13:55<gynterk>whats screenshot shortcut?
13:56<Ammler>ctrl+s
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14:02<+glx>ctrl+g for a giant one :)
14:02<+glx>though I don't recommend to do it
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14:13<Ammler>glx: is there a shortcut for screenshot without toolbar?
14:13<+glx>dunno
14:13<Nite>its written beside the screenshot option
14:14<Nite>obviously: "strg+s"
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14:17<Ammler>Nite, thats with the toolbar etc.
14:18<+glx>there's a console command for the without toolbar one
14:18<Nite>kk i thought without using the toolbar S:-)
14:18<+glx>and console commands don't have shortcuts
14:19<Ammler>glx: yeah, thats why I was wondering if there is also a shortcut
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14:47<dihedral>there seems to be an issue with ttrs grf in 11194
14:48<SpComb>new layout on MyOTTD
14:48<SpComb>it's kind of a mix between the servers.openttd.org and dihedral's one
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14:50<Rubidium>dihedral: boring...
14:51<dihedral>just mentioning it :-)
14:52<Rubidium>like... way too late to fix
14:52<SpComb>dihedral: so what's your layout for NewGRFs? Need to take a look at that as well :P
14:52<dihedral>Rubidium: so you know of it or is it just too late in the day
14:53<+glx><dihedral> there seems to be an issue with ttrs grf in 11194 <-- try 11196 :)
14:53<dihedral>i went back to 11152
14:53<dihedral>i'll try 11196 tomorrow
14:54<dihedral>SpComb: NewGRFs are a little nasty :-)
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14:58<SpComb>dihedral: do you have a layout for them?
14:58<dihedral>sure
14:58<dihedral>check my files :-)
14:59<UnderBuilder>heh, I wanna see a remake of RCT, the one I own doesn't work on XP
15:00<dihedral>SpComb: sending the request: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L507
15:00<dihedral>reading the answer packet: http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/browser/trunk/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L642
15:00<dihedral>be aware of the endiannes :-)
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15:29<skidd13>hi
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15:44<SmatZ>hi skidd13
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15:48<SpComb>dihedral: I meant the HTML layout, but I've got that as well now
15:48[~]SpComb is takeing a break from MyOTTD and actually, like, playing on his server
15:48|-|Desolator changed nick to Guest812
15:48<dihedral>i use pear's HTML_Template_Sigma
15:49<SpComb>someone want to play with me? Info at terom.myottd.net :)
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15:50<SpComb>need to add something that'll show you the difficulty/patch settings on the server
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15:53<ActySofts>-NickServ- Desolatr is not online. The nickname may be freely used and does not
15:53<ActySofts>-NickServ- require regain or ghost.
15:53<ActySofts>* Desolator :Nickname is already in use.
15:53<ActySofts>?!
15:54<SpComb>Desolatr != Desolator
15:54<ActySofts>yeah, but it showed Desolator in the text box...
15:54<Prof_Frink>Desolatr == Desolator 2.0 (beta)
15:54|-|ActySofts changed nick to Desolator
15:55<Desolator>LOL
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15:59<Wolf01>'night
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16:13<SpComb>someone really needs to optimize the way that the trucks go into a cargo depo thing to load
16:17<Rubidium>that's called drive-through road stops
16:19<SpComb>0.5.3/trunk?
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16:24<Rubidium>trunk
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17:00<ln->50 years since germans entered the space.
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause>germans entered a lot of things...
17:15[~]peterbrett resists the urge to make one of several politically-incorrect replies
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17:25<@Bjarni>hehe... Eddi|zuHause made it too easy with that sentence
17:25<@Bjarni>one could mention Poland, something sexual or something.... do think before talking :P
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, i would really have liked to hear that...
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>of course i thought... that's why i made that statement so ambiguous ;)
17:26<@Bjarni>hehe
17:27<@Bjarni>actually Poland wasn't the worst you guys entered
17:27<@Bjarni>it was worse with Norway
17:27<@Bjarni>and Denmark
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17:32<Sacro>sexual?
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18:05<@Bjarni>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Ana.b747.pokemon.arp.750pix.jpg <-- LOL
18:06<Phazorx>and stuardesses probably have cat years and mangesque uniforms...
18:07<@Bjarni>"cat years"...
18:07<Phazorx>cat ears
18:07<@Bjarni>:P
18:08<@Bjarni>err.. what is mangesque?
18:08<+glx>school uniform ;)
18:09<Phazorx>mangae + "-esque"
18:09<@Bjarni>ahh
18:09<@Bjarni>glx made sense
18:09<Phazorx>sometihng that looks like it came off anime screen themed
18:09<@Bjarni>hehe
18:09<Phazorx>he made different sense from what i had in mind tho
18:09<@Bjarni>you mean sort of like a maid cafe thingie? :)
18:09<Phazorx>depends on manga i guess
18:10<Phazorx>could be ghost in shell sci-fi
18:10<Phazorx>or some super dolls or whatever
18:10<Phazorx>not like i watch tv and enjoy sit com anime
18:10<@Bjarni>you only act like you do :P
18:10<@Bjarni>and then you make a point that you don't
18:11<@Bjarni>sounds like denial to me :P
18:11<Phazorx>it's all aboit rpeception for you
18:11<Phazorx>however i do know what point i was trying to make
18:11<Phazorx>and it seems a bit different
18:11<Phazorx>but i tihnk glx idea could fit fine there too
18:12<@Bjarni>do your keyboard lag once in a while?
18:12<Phazorx>and they probably screem at highest peach of their voives once in a while as they start a fight with random passengers
18:12<Phazorx>Bjarni: i ithnk i fail to read what i type quite often :)
18:13<@Bjarni>ithnk...
18:13<Phazorx>and keysrokes come kidna close to each other
18:13<@Bjarni>are you drunk?
18:13<Phazorx>not yet :)
18:13<Phazorx>this is quite usual me
18:13<@Bjarni>are you on some sort of medication?
18:14<Phazorx>i care to be comprehandlable only... order of letters matters only on some cases, just having them usual enough for bing able to understand :)
18:14<Phazorx>heh nope, this is a "normal" as i ever get tho :)
18:14<@Bjarni>then maybe you should be
18:14<Phazorx>wont help most likely :)
18:15<Phazorx>thanks for caring btw :)
18:15<@Bjarni>sleeping pills would help
18:15<@Bjarni>then you wouldn't write garbled in the channel right now
18:15<Phazorx>considering time zone and fact that i woke up 5-6 hrs ago that doea not make much sense
18:16<@Bjarni>right
18:16<@Bjarni>you are on the other side of the Atlantic
18:16<@Bjarni>then you could be right
18:16<Phazorx>quite right
18:17<@Bjarni>this is normal spelling in your area
18:17[~]Sacro whistles
18:17<Phazorx>"my area" actualy uses different language :)
18:17<@Bjarni>I know
18:17<@Bjarni>we don't call it English either
18:17<Phazorx>i'd call it russian actualy :)
18:18<@Bjarni>...
18:18<@Bjarni>and you woke up 5-6 hours ago...
18:18<Phazorx>that is correct
18:18<@Bjarni>Are you in Kanchatka or something?
18:19<Phazorx>kaMchatka then, but no i'm in continatal north america, hwoever where i am has little to do with "my area" :)
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18:21<@Bjarni>Russian in North America...
18:21<@Bjarni>damn you KGB spy
18:21<Phazorx>i think it is called soemtihng else now
18:21<@Bjarni>you are supposed to say that
18:21<Phazorx>FSB probably
18:21<@Bjarni>to confuse the public
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18:22<Phazorx>hmm.. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/112/281802434_d68720a7b1_o.jpg that would be neat feature for ottd
18:23<@Bjarni>you can already use two engines
18:23<@Bjarni>and you can turn them around
18:23<Phazorx>i meant curved bridge
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18:37<Ammller>Phazorx: SmartZ is working on a patch for that
18:38<Ammller>didn't you see that?
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18:54<huma>oh, curved bridge would be cool
18:54<huma>Ammller: where is it?
18:55<gynterk>in my back yard
18:55<gynterk>waits for transporting
18:56<Ammller>huma: there was a video and some screens some weeks ago
18:56<huma>gynterk: ha ha
18:56<gynterk>i know
18:56<gynterk>i'm laughing too at the moment
18:58<+glx>Ammller: that was for tunnels
18:59<Ammller>glx, tunnel and bridges are almost the same aren't they?
19:00<Ammller>I thought, he showed us also a bridge on a screen
19:03<gynterk>Does anyone have ttd company color codes in hex ?
19:03<gynterk>or rgb
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19:03<+glx>the source has it :)
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19:04<Phazorx>Ammller: didnt know
19:04<Ammller>gynterk: but I would surch for player, not fo company in the source
19:05<Phazorx>video i seen was for advanced tunnels
19:05<Ammller>Phazorx: same is also for bridges
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19:05<Phazorx>Ammller: interesting
19:05<Phazorx>btw, can we have modified costs for everythign
19:05<Phazorx>a grf with params
19:05<Phazorx>simila to bippkabirds
19:05<Phazorx>pikkabirds
19:06<Ammller>yeah, why not?
19:06<Phazorx>i tihnk it is good for coopete and rp games
19:06<Phazorx>i want bridges to be at least 20x what they are now
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19:06<Phazorx>cus IRL they are complex
19:06<Phazorx>and tracks are bent/moved for better location of a bridge
19:07<Phazorx>rather than putting a bridge where you want them
19:08<Ammller>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=BaseCosts <--they are changed in pikkabirds grf
19:09<Phazorx>but changed and fixed
19:09<Phazorx>i'd like parametric GRF
19:09<Phazorx>where you tune them
19:09<Ammller>yeah, just show you, what you can change
19:10<Phazorx>a patch tha counst tiles used by particular types of constructions would be ncie too
19:10<Ammller>just look on my airmod, I changed also some of them...
19:10<Phazorx>yeah i saw
19:10<Phazorx>but your change is fixed as well as i recall
19:11<Ammller>no
19:11<Phazorx>i might have seen an older version then?
19:12<+glx>you can make the changes dependant on params
19:12<Ammller>hmm, possible..
19:12<+glx>nfo allows that
19:13<Phazorx>glx: yes we seen it done
19:13<Phazorx>thgergos ship mod for example
19:15<Phazorx>glx: aside of remaking involved grfs - would it be complex to add unload/load speed to engines/wagons?
19:16<+glx>what do you mean?
19:16<Phazorx>a new parameter for vehicles
19:17<Phazorx>cars/wagons/trucks/ships/aircrafts
19:17<Phazorx>engine as well if it applies
19:17<Phazorx>that controls how fast/slow they are laoded/unloaded
19:17<Phazorx>it would make sense for RVs mostly
19:18<+glx>RVs are slow enough ;)
19:18<Phazorx>modern trams not only have higher speed but also have more doors
19:18<+glx>no need to slow them more
19:18<Phazorx>so they would be unloaded faster
19:18<Phazorx>same goes for certain cars
19:18<Sionide>eg. aircraft take ages to turn around at an airport, so should be slower...?
19:18<Phazorx>like it is faster to unload containers than boxes
19:18<Ammller>thats very easy to change with grfs
19:18<Phazorx>Sionide: not exactly
19:18<+glx>gradual loading can simulate it
19:18<Phazorx>380 has 6 usable exits
19:19<Phazorx>glx: to some limit
19:19<Phazorx>glx: what i mean higher capacity sometimes comes with sacrifices
19:19<Sionide>Phazorx, but the airport only has one walk-way thing they attach to the side of the plane...
19:19<Phazorx>it loads more but it is slower
19:19<Sionide>heh
19:19[~]Sionide should be working
19:19<Sionide>back to work
19:20<Phazorx>and in some cases it would be more efficient to use smaller capacity but faster loading/unloading
19:20<Phazorx>think about urban busess and long range intercity express
19:20<Ammller>Phazorx: the trams are currently just coded wors
19:20<+glx>each vehicle type has its own gradual loading speed
19:20<Phazorx>glx: oh really?
19:21<Ammller>and of course the planes too
19:21<Phazorx>how come it is like always proportyinal to capacity?
19:21<Phazorx>and that does not appear anywhere in visible settings
19:21<Phazorx>as well as in vehicle info
19:22<+glx>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0General
19:22<+glx>bottom of this page
19:23<Phazorx>so default are used for most GRFs?
19:23<Ammller>glx: Phazorx means its a fault of OTTD :)
19:23<Phazorx>fault?
19:24<Phazorx>glx: as i can see it is possible but not displayed and mostly not used am i correct?
19:25<+glx>it is not shown, but I think many grfs use it
19:27<gynterk>I can't find those colors...
19:27<Phazorx>can it also be displayed somewhoe?
19:28|-|KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-156-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:28<Phazorx>glx: another thing, applicable only to planes: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/773
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19:29<+glx>there's a thread about that on tt-forums
19:29<Phazorx>i'm askign about feasibility
19:30<+glx>well nothing is impossible :)
19:30<Phazorx>especialy refitting with proprortions to range/capacity
19:31<Grey>sleep now
19:32<Grey>night!
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19:33<gynterk>anyone?
19:33<gynterk>where could colours be ?
19:33<gynterk>player colours
19:37<ln->people should not be discriminated based on their colour.
19:39[~]Sacro ignores ln- cos his nick is purple
19:39<Sacro>hmm
19:39<Sacro>night chaps
19:40<gynterk>anyone?
19:40<gynterk>colors?
19:40<+glx>all colors are in src/table/palettes.h
19:41<gynterk>thanks
19:41<+glx>company colors are some of them
19:58<gynterk>and how could i find right colors from there ?
20:00<CIA-4>OpenTTD: belugas * r11198 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_commons.cpp newgrf_commons.h): -Fix: When industry override is not possible because it is already been overridden, mark the new candidate as not being an override
20:01<_Ben_>I dought anybody would know this, as its rather outdated, but in the 32bpp full zoom build that egladil made back in march, does that support compnay colours? I have some graphics in there with the images needed to make the company colours work, but they seem to be fixed as blue
20:02<_Ben_>actually blue is irrelevent, as that is just the colour I rendered them as
20:04<@Belugas>gynterk, check here : http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/img/wiki_up//windowspal.png
20:05<@Belugas>based on http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=PalettesAndCoordinates
20:05<gynterk>thanks
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20:42<@Belugas>is there a cheat in ttdp like the money one in ottd?
20:45<@Belugas>yes... there is one... signcheat ...
20:45<@Belugas>now... how to activate that signcheat..
20:46<DaleStan>Cht: Money $BIGNUM
20:46<DaleStan>Or, if you want to undo it, Cht: Money $SMALLNUM
20:48<@Belugas>thanks.
20:48<@Belugas>but...
20:48<@Belugas>how and where do i enter these values?
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20:49<DaleStan>In a sign.
20:49<DaleStan>In the tree menu.
20:51<@Belugas>:D
20:51<@Belugas>wouhou!
20:51<@Belugas>Thanks DaleStan :)
20:52<@Belugas>by the way, is there any exception that would allow var 68 of industries to be accessed duringg cb28 ?
20:52<@Belugas>I doubt, not accroding to wiki
20:52<@Belugas>but... undocumented features,maybe?
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21:06<ln->but where is admiral 1138?
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21:16<DaleStan>Belugas: IMO, 45, 67, and 68 should all also be available in CB28.
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21:36<@Belugas>DaleStan, should? http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Industry_location_permissibility_28_ does not say so :(
21:36<@Belugas>is it normal?
21:36<@Belugas>i'll check with the sources
21:37<DaleStan>I suspect that the CB28 documentation was written before vars 45, 67, and 68 were added.
21:37<DaleStan>I'm not sure how helpful the sources will be; the controlling factor is most likely whether the parts of the industry structure that those vars use have been initialized yet.
21:44<@Belugas>true, they are relatively recent additions
21:44<@Belugas>i guess i should ask csaboka tomorrow
21:45<@Belugas>it's strange that George uses them(at least 68 in ecstown beta2), as if he already knew he could do so
21:50<@Belugas>ottd version of 67-68 are a bit dependant of a real industry, and not a fake one
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21:54<@Belugas>good idea, glx... me too, going to bed
21:54<@Belugas>night all
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 04 00:00:23 2007