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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-05

---Logopened Fri Oct 05 00:00:44 2007
00:59|-|Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-56-242.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
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01:00<nickname>i *really* want this town to grow
01:00<nickname>but it just won't
01:00<nickname>how do i force it?
01:02<nairan_ZZzz>tried give em money for houses?
01:02|-|nairan_ZZzz changed nick to mcbane
01:03<nickname>yeah
01:03<nickname>i need the big buildings
01:03<nickname>for the goods
01:05<mcbane>hmm
01:05<Rubidium>nickname: what climate?
01:06<nickname>desert
01:06<Rubidium>is the town center in the desert?
01:06<nickname>yes
01:07<nickname>yes i have food and water going to it
01:07<Rubidium>is it delivered close enough to the center of the town?
01:08<nickname>the station covers about half the town
01:12<Rubidium>is the station within 9 tiles from the town center, i.e. the town sign
01:12<nickname>yes
01:13<nickname>its only about 9 tiles wide
01:13<nickname>ok got 4/8
01:13<nickname>halfway there
01:17<Rubidium>have you build two bus stopes with one or two busses running between them in the town?
01:19<nickname>yes
01:20<nickname>and i put a 3rd station in a close town
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01:23<nickname>oh crap
01:23<nickname>theres like 300 passengers at this bus station
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01:28<nickname>well i got the 8/8
01:28<nickname>but now my station is 1 tile short of 1/8
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02:23<|Bastiaan|>hi there, how can i configure my dedicated server to load the last saved autosave on startup ?
02:23<boekabart>there exists smth like a auto execute script
02:23<Rubidium>|Bastiaan|: yes there is
02:23<boekabart>but.. last save autosave...
02:23<boekabart>it crashes a lot or?
02:24<|Bastiaan|>no, the server is turned off every day at midnight
02:24<Rubidium>what you have to do is open openttd.cfg and set the number of autosaves to 0
02:24<|Bastiaan|>virtual server, backup procedure
02:24<boekabart>Rubidium: 0? not 1?
02:24<Rubidium>then just make a bash script and do ./openttd -g save/autosave/autosave0.sav
02:24<Rubidium>oh, yeah... 1 ;)
02:24<Rubidium>typical obiwan ;)
02:24<|Bastiaan|>ahh cool
02:26<Rubidium>./openttd `ls --sort=time -w 1 save/autosave/ | head -n 1`
02:26<Rubidium>that might work too ;)
02:26<Rubidium>and then you can have multiple autosaves
02:26<|Bastiaan|>i dont need multiple saves :)
02:26<Rubidium>./openttd -g `ls --sort=time -w 1 save/autosave/ | head -n 1`
02:27<Rubidium>shouldn't forget the '-g' part
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02:27<dihedral>morning
02:27<dihedral>... ladies :-)
02:27|-|nickname [~ident@ip70-176-19-85.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:27<boekabart>dihedral: see what you did?
02:29|-|Hendikins|Work changed nick to Hendikins
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02:30<|Bastiaan|>thnx guys, its working now :)
02:30<boekabart>Rubidium: see that? :)
02:31<boekabart>the filter is already in place :)
02:31<dihedral>boekabart: yes - a 'nickname' left...
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02:38<|Bastiaan|>is it possible too add an (AI) player to a server with rcon ?
02:39<boekabart>Allow AI in multiplayer should be on. for this NewAI should be on.
02:40<boekabart>If those conditions are met, i don't know. rubi rubi rubi rubi?
02:42<Rubidium>uhmm... ask the author of newai
02:46<boekabart>|Bastiaan|: anyway, you probably don't want to ruin the multiplayer fun, right?
02:46<boekabart>if you really do, i'm willing to join and put some random spaghetti tracks down :)
02:47<|Bastiaan|>hehehe
02:48<|Bastiaan|>id like to do a co-op against a few ai's
02:48<Rubidium>newai is road vehicles only, so it won't be that bad ;)
02:48<boekabart>ah, so THAT is the big improvement in newAI !!
02:48<Rubidium>I think you should just pay some chines guys a few eurocents a day to be AI ;)
02:49<boekabart>Our company has about a 100 of them sitting around... maybe it's a plan :)
02:49<Rubidium>*Chinese
02:52<|Bastiaan|>hmm, to bad
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03:09|-|N101|AWAY changed nick to N101
03:09|-|pro changed nick to _2rB
03:10<N101>one question. if I added a patch to OTTD can i play online with the patch with out desync errors?
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03:11<boekabart>N101: depends very much on the patch
03:11<N101>ok
03:12<boekabart>usually, if the patch changes smth in the world/ the way the world behaves, you'll get desyncs
03:12<N101>for example the Build Templates (Copy&Paste) (r11133 + 0.5.3)
03:12<boekabart>IF it uses existing functions to do the final build, and doens't use Random(), it might be OK
03:12<boekabart>try and find out!
03:13<N101>ok
03:13<boekabart>but you can't join a 053 server with a 11133/11133+patch version, obviously
03:13<N101>yeah
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03:25<valhallasw>isn't Random() pseudo-random enough to yield the same results on client and server?
03:27<frosch123>Exactly, but that requires Random() do be called on the server as often as it is called on the client.
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03:42<valhallasw>so the client does not loop Random() until that number is reached?
03:45<N101>ill do it later. when i know how to compile.
03:46<N101>it keeps erroring.
03:46|-|N101 changed nick to N101|Away
03:46<dihedral>where is determind when a dedicated server starts a new game?
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04:01<dihedral>http://paste.openttd.org/239
04:01<dihedral>what's with that?
04:03<dihedral>fore reloading the config of dedicated servers at every new game
04:04<valhallasw>dihedral: afaik a dedicated server needs to restart
04:04<dihedral>just need to add a patch setting and a save config chm
04:04<dihedral>*cmd
04:04<dihedral>valhallasw: you dont know very far
04:04<boekabart>this is defintately smth you don't want without the save before -
04:04<dihedral>i just tested it
04:04<valhallasw>then tell me how :P
04:05<boekabart>or you'll lose the settings changed in the autoexec script/console before starting the previous game
04:05<dihedral>once a dedicated server reaches ending_year it starts a new game
04:05<dihedral>closing the network connections, generating a new map, and previously connected client rejoin
04:05<valhallasw>ending_year is boooooring :P
04:05<boekabart>dihedral: isn't there also a script that is run not on startup, but just before starting a new game?
04:05<boekabart>if so, add loading config to that script
04:06<dihedral>i tried loading the ini before executing pre_dedicated.scr
04:06<boekabart>If it isn't there yet, implementing that seems to be a more flexible approach
04:06<dihedral>yes - but at least i have a dirty workaround for now :-D
04:06<dihedral>and know what i am looking for
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04:08<dihedral>but i must say - i like the idea
04:09<dihedral>boekabart: a patch setting newgame_reload_cfg would be better than forcing to save
04:09<dihedral>as if you force the save, loading has no effect
04:09<dihedral>makes no diff to the game
04:09<dihedral>thogh loading the config right there, you can even change map size, landscape ... anything
04:10<boekabart>newgame_reload_cfg sucks anyway - afterstopgame_reload_cfg makes more sense
04:10<boekabart>then at least you'll have the chance to change the options again before starting the new game
04:10<dihedral>yes
04:10<dihedral>a save game cmd, and that patch setting
04:10<boekabart>i'd probably even use the patch setting if it were implemented like that
04:11<dihedral>i'll do that this weekend
04:11<boekabart>but still, a script that is run after stop game is a more flexible approach
04:11<dihedral>boekabart: will add taht too
04:11<boekabart>since it requires no new patch setting
04:12<dihedral>yes - but you need to access the shell of the server to change it
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04:14<dihedral>with a patch setting all you need is rcon
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05:19[~]dihedral greets Ammller
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05:36<dihedral>how come, if i have a patch setting nextgame_reload_cfg
05:36<dihedral>and check that setting in an if
05:36<dihedral>just before starting a new game
05:37<dihedral>if( _patches.nextgame_reload_cfg || _patches_newgame.nextgame_reload_cfg )
05:37<dihedral>then reload the config
05:37<dihedral>it only works every secong newgame
05:38<dihedral>if i set the patch value in the game from the console
05:39<dihedral>is there another _patches i could be missing?
05:41<Vikthor>It is funny - there is so much people who want features, but when a feature arrives nobody seems to notice :)
05:42<dihedral>some notice - just seldom mention it :-)
05:44|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6970.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:45<skidd13>Hi
05:45<dihedral>hello
05:46<skidd13>Congratulations Belugas. Finally I can play with NewIndustries ;)
05:46<Rubidium>LOL
05:47<dihedral>Rubidium: is there a _patches other than _patches and _patches_newgame i could be missing?
05:47<Rubidium>could be
05:48<dihedral>anyone you could think of?
05:49<dihedral>for some reason when checking agains a patch option i added, the LoadFromConfig() is only executed every second newgame
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05:57<Ammller>!seen glx
05:57<_42_>Ammller, glx (glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net) was last seen quitting #openttd.notice 8 hours 13 minutes ago (05.10. 02:44) stating "Quit: bye" after spending 14 hours 7 minutes there.
05:58<Ammller>@seen glx
05:58<@DorpsGek>Ammller: glx was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <glx> bluetooth
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06:00<Ammller>Hi all, I had some asserts with packet.cpp and now the data is: type 10, data CSTramSet v0.1
06:06<Phazorx>hmm... totaly offtopic... is there "audio piece/clip id" channel here or on efnet?
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06:09<Rubidium>Ammller: is it reproducable by a client without newgrfs trying to get info about the server?
06:10<Rubidium>and what's the exact assertion?
06:10<Rubidium>the server running with that tramset newgrf ofcourse
06:11<Ammller>openttd: /home/tt-ms/bin/ottd/src/network/core/packet.cpp:139: void Packet::Send_string(const char*): Assertion `this->size < sizeof(this->buffer) - strlen(data) - 1' failed.
06:11<Rubidium>hmm... so it's someone with absolutely no NewGRFs getting the info of all NewGRFs it seems
06:12<Ammller>glx gave me that for debugging: printf("type %d, data %s\n", this->buffer[sizeof(PacketSize)], data);
06:13<Ammller>Rubidium: I'll try
06:13<Rubidium>can you run the server in gdb?
06:14<Ammller>gdb?
06:15<Ammller>I'll could give you SSH access, if you like...
06:15<Ammller>its only ottd there atm
06:18<Rubidium>gdb == debugger
06:20<Ammller>if you try to connect with a "empty" client, I have 2 GRF without Title: one is Japanset and the other Hiroshima
06:21<boekabart>dihedral: your problem is - using a patch setting -> load -> patch setting changes. Just, leave the patch setting and implement the change so that it will load a generic script at the right moment, and put the loadconfig in that script. no patch option needed, no savegame bump, more general use -> higher chance of trunk acceptance.
06:21<Ammller>Hmm, I guess, "we" have still a problem with the GRFID range...
06:22<Rubidium>the problem is that it's due to "a lot of unknown newgrfs", not newgrf with no name.
06:22<Ammller>Rubidium: Is there a howto for running/compiling on debug mode?
06:24<Ammller>hmm, but how can they be unknown?
06:24<Ammller>the master server i.e. does know those...
06:25<Rubidium>the client doesn't know the newgrfs
06:25<Rubidium>thus requests *all* names
06:26<Rubidium>then the server puts them in a packet, but crashes because it would overflow the packet
06:26<Ammller>thats why he is asking the server, like master server does, doesn't he?
06:26<Rubidium>yes
06:26<Ammller>btw, now I have no assert
06:27<Ammller>but still this unknown grfs
06:27<Rubidium>well, either the server runs with too few newgrfs or the client knows too many newgrfs
06:28<Ammller>as I said, the data dir is empty (no newgrfs), so the client known no newGRFs, right?
06:29<Ammller>(every grf listed is red)
06:30<Ammller>hmm, if I try the same with 0.5.3, there are even more unknown
06:30<Rubidium>that's just bad luck with the UDP packets
06:31<Ammller>and yes, the last listed, so it seems, the pack was too small
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06:32<Rubidium>problem is that when *your* server is the first to return the first GameInfoCall, it queries *all* NewGRFs from your server, otherwise it might already have gotten information from other servers.
06:32<Rubidium>and the "problem" is that the crash probably won't happen when there is one newgrf with a name one character shorter or longer (probably some off-by-one error somewhere)
06:33<Ammller>but that info is reseted on restart of client, isn't?
06:33<Rubidium>yes
06:46<dihedral>yay - it workes ;-P
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06:53<Ammller>Rubidium: right, after refresh of the server, you will get the rest of GRF infos
06:56<Ammller>hmm, not able to reproduce the assert
06:58<Rubidium>as I said, it's some cornercase that isn't easily triggered
06:59<Rubidium>otherwise we would've had seen OTTDCoop servers crashe every minute
06:59<Rubidium>therefor the server must run in GDB, so we can get info out of it when it asserts
07:00<Rubidium>./configure --enable-debug=3
07:00<Rubidium>make run-gdb OPENTTD_ARGS="-D"
07:00<Rubidium>that should configure it properly and then build and run it
07:01<Ammller>should I keep the patch from glx?
07:02<Rubidium>that isn't necessary
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07:02<Rubidium>though it would be nice to run it in a screen, so I can see it when it's necessary
07:05<Ammller>yes, I do...
07:06<Ammller>I am wondering, why this isn't happen on the coop server
07:07<Rubidium>other set of newgrfs
07:07<Rubidium>possibly a different order
07:07<Ammller>hmm, I use same pack
07:07<Ammller>also the order is given from the file structure...
07:09<Rubidium>how is the order given from the file structure?
07:11<Ammller>because we use a configuration tool, we can't change the order
07:12<Ammller>so I made the folder structure to have proper oder
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07:14<Ammller>Rubidium: I did compile the server new, now I am in the console of GDB
07:14<Ammller>have I to start ottd from there?
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07:16<Eddi|zuHause>you start gdb bin/openttd
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07:16<Eddi|zuHause>on the gdb console you type "run" or something
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>it has a help
07:17<Rubidium>Ammller: if you did exactly as I said, it would've already started the dedicated server
07:18<Ammller>hmm, so no autopilot then?
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>do you really need autopilot for such a test?
07:21<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: the problem is, we can't reproduce it
07:21<Ammller>so we should run a usual environment and wait until the assert happens again...
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>and you can probably run autopilot in gdb also, it only gets more tricky
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. you can run autopilot like usual, and then attach gdb to the running process
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>you need the process number then
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>or you run gdb with the autopilot app (tcl?), and then type "run [arguments]"
07:26<Ammller>yes autopilot its a tcl wrapper, I run ./autopilot.tcl and that starts ./openttd -D -x etc.
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>then type "autopilot /bin/tcl[or whatever the first line of autopilot.tcl says]" and in the gdb console "run autopilot.tcl"
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07:43|-|mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
07:44<+glx>Ammller: ping
07:46<gynterk>pong
07:47<Ammller>glx pong
07:47<+glx>you were looking for me?
07:47<Ammller>yeah, I had the assert
07:48<+glx>with output?
07:48<Ammller>but is not reproducable
07:49<Ammller> type 10, data CSTramSet v0.1
07:49<Ammller>(thats all)
07:50<Ammller>I compiled it now with gdb
07:50<Ammller>#!/bin/sh
07:50<Ammller># Start Tcl \
07:50<Ammller>exec tclsh $0 $@
07:51<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: thats the top of autopilot
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: it might make more sense to use the other option, run autopilot as usual, use ps to get the PID of openttd, then run "gdb openttd <PID>"
07:54<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: try that
07:54<Ammller>hmm, how to exit gdb?
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07:54<Ammller>ah, ok quit did it
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08:15<Ailure>hmm
08:15<Ailure>newindustries finished
08:15<Ailure>I guess that means we might see a stable 0.6.0 release in this year after all. :P
08:17<valhallasw>nah.
08:17<valhallasw>maybe next decade ;)
08:19<boekabart>Ailure: no-one implied finished, it's just ready for public testing. :)
08:19<boekabart>.. they hope :)
08:20<Ailure>Open source software is never finished
08:20<Ailure>;)
08:20<Ailure>that's the beuty of it too
08:20<Ailure>I guess
08:20<Rubidium>closed source software is never finished either
08:20<boekabart>--- they just pretend it is
08:20<Ailure>haha true
08:20<+glx>then you get SP3 ;)
08:21<Ailure>this is especially true for games
08:21<+glx>the problem with games is they often don't release patches to fix the bugs
08:21<Ailure>patches rarely come after six months after a game erlease
08:21<Ailure>well
08:21<Ailure>when they do
08:21<Ailure>it's only shortly after release
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>they call it an "addon" later
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>and charge extra money
08:22<boekabart>the no-longer-crashes addon!
08:22<Ailure>yeah
08:22<boekabart>for even more working/playing pleasure!
08:22<Ailure>I seen that with the sims franchise
08:22<Ailure>some bugs weren't fixed until a expansion pack
08:23<Ailure>and games like Simcity 4 was rushed out of the door
08:23<Ailure>It's my favorite simcity
08:23<Ailure>but 1.0 of it was awful
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08:23<Ailure>it's even worse with patches that comes at relase date too
08:28<valhallasw>*uche* oblivion
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08:35<gynterk>details packet doesn't contain company color data?
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>err.... what does that mean? "/usr/include/bits/local_lim.h:36:26: error: linux/limits.h: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden"
08:36<+glx>one file comes from the future
08:37<gynterk>File or Index not found
08:37<gynterk>i think
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>i know what it says
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>i ask what it means
08:37<gynterk>ah k
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>it says "file or directory not found"
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>it never complained before...
08:37<+glx>missing include file
08:38<+glx>maybe this file has been deleted
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but i just typed "make", like a thousand times before
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>how do i view the paths gcc searches for include files?
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08:47<gynterk>do make clean
08:47<gynterk>and make again
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08:48<Eddi|zuHause>no, that has nothing to do with it
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>it is the include directories
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>it is missing one
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>where can i set them?
08:49<Ailure>hmm
08:49<Ailure>Now I have decide between patiently awaiting for todays nightly, or to compile it myself. ;)
08:50<Ailure>my compile tools are in a mess
08:50<Ailure>:/
08:50<@Belugas>wait, and until then, roam the grfcrawler ;)
08:51<Ailure>I guess
08:51<Ailure>there was this other newindustry set apart from PBI
08:51<Ailure>so I guess I should check it out :P
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09:04<Eddi|zuHause>AAARRRGHHH
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>i can't find the solution
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>the files are in /usr/src/linux/include
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>but i can't find where to setup that it should search there
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>there must be somebody here who can configure gcc... google does not tell me _ANYTHING_
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09:19<Eddi|zuHause>something is weird... my ore wagons look like they are transporting wood...
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>actually, the graphics don't change whatever i refit to
09:22<gfldex>Eddi|zuHause: when you run configure on gcc (what you dont but your ditro does) you set a prefix-dir
09:23<gfldex>the libc (that comes with gcc) is using that to tell where it looks for includes
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>grr... something made openttd load dir default to ~/.openttd/save instead of bin/openttd/save
09:23<gfldex>that's why you use a symlink for /usr/src/linux all the time
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i found the symlink part after half an hour of googling
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>that's half an hour of wasted time, if someone with a tiny bit of experience could have told me
09:25<gfldex>you could have asked me :)
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>i did... i shouted it into this channel
09:26<valhallasw>gfldex: I remind some message of linus about /usr/src/linux symlinking
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>some tutorial deep down in the google results told me to symlink /usr/src/linux/include/linux to /usr/include/linux
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09:29<valhallasw>yes
09:29<valhallasw>however
09:29<valhallasw>"Some kernel documentation recommends creating a symlink from /usr/src/linux pointing to the kernel source directory. This is specific to kernels prior to the 2.6 series and must not be created on an LFS system as it can cause problems for packages you may wish to build once your base LFS system is complete."
09:29<valhallasw>prior LFS version noted a post by linus about that
09:30<valhallasw>which was more a reaction to gfldex's point 'that's why you use a symlink for /usr/src/linux all the time', than your question
09:31<gfldex>and the problem is that your symlink can be overwritten without you noticing
09:31<dihedral>Rubidium: to reload the config file between the end of a served game and the new game
09:32<dihedral>do i only need LoadFromConfig() ?
09:32<gfldex>that's why you should create a package for your distro instead of simply copying files around
09:32<gfldex>but nobody is doing that :)
09:32<dihedral>or am i (as i assume i am) missing something
09:32<valhallasw>gfldex: debian makes it easy enough ;)
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>hm, this is definitely a regression of some sort... in temperate climate, the DBSetXL wagons work fine, but in Alpine climate, the wagons do not change the visualisation on refit
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>it used to work fine around r11150
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09:47<Eddi|zuHause>it appears to be fine for wood, coal, goods and grain, but not for ore... weird
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09:53<dihedral>_opt = _opt_newgame works fine
09:53<dihedral>_patches = _patches_newgame works fine too
09:53<dihedral>_grfconfig = _grfconfig_newgame segfaults
09:53<dihedral>any thoughts on what i might be doing wrong?
09:54<+glx>there's a function for grfconfig
09:55<+glx>ResetGRFConfig(bool)
09:56<ln->http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/kuvat/tmp/ottd-saari.png
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09:59<ln->are there plans to introduce a special icon for tram stops?
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm... somehow i read "Kekse" :p
09:59<dihedral>kekse?
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: there are no special icons for railtypes either
09:59<dihedral>mit milch
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: in the picture, the station name
10:00<dihedral>oh :-(
10:00<ln->Eddi|zuHause: true, but is such distinction made in real-life icons for maglev and normal trains?
10:01<dihedral>ln-: i dont see 'icons' in 'real-life'
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>i have not seen that many monorails in common use
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: ever been on a train station?
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>there are dozens of "icons"
10:02|-|TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>(most commonly giving directions: "platforms", "tickets", "toilet")
10:03<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause: i tend to call those 'signs'
10:03<blathijs>I don't think there is any usuable real-life analogy for this :-)
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>what's an icon otherwise?
10:04<+glx>an image
10:04<+glx>logo...
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's what i am talking about, you have an image of a man, and that means "men's toilet this way"
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>you have a picture of a woman... similar meaning
10:05<dihedral>"folow the icon" or "follow the sign"?
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10:07<dihedral>thank you glx for mentioning that function
10:07<Phazorx>i guess icon is a none verbal sign, the pictogramm only
10:07<dihedral>that worked :-)
10:07<ln->blathijs: are you saying the icons on the station name are in no way analogous to the signs used at bus stops, railway stations and tram stops of real life?
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>Phazorx: yes, and that is what you find at stations
10:08<ln->at least over here the bus stop sign has a picture of a bus, and a tram stop has a picture of a tram.
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: trams and busses use the same sign for stops here
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>usually a big H
10:08<blathijs>ln-: yes
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>or a HH for big stations
10:08<dihedral>glx: i can finally change my cfg file, and when the server starts a new game it will reload the config file ;-)
10:09<blathijs>ln-: Though "in no way" is probably not entirely true
10:09<ln->Eddi|zuHause: what a pity.
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: a differentiation is only made on the signs that tell which lines stop here
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>you have "[Tram] 5 Bad Dürrenberg", or "[Bus] 22 Heide-Nord"
10:10<ln->Eddi|zuHause: over here, the traffic signs with trams are (unfortunately) only used in one city currently.
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: often, trams and busses use the same stations here
10:10<Ammller>dihedral: so with Progman's config tool and your patch, no ssh access needed anymore...
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>same in openttd, if you have both a road and a rail, trams and busses can stop there
10:12<dihedral>Ammller: yes
10:12<dihedral>Ammller: i added a patch setting so you can disable it :-)
10:13<Ammller>hmm, is that a "server only" patch?
10:13<dihedral>well - yes
10:13<dihedral>or would you in a normal game change your config file other than using openttd's interface
10:13<ln->Eddi|zuHause: except in openttd the icon happens to have a picture of a bus -- even if your station doesn't have road.
10:13<dihedral>so that it will have affect on your next game
10:13<Ammller>oh man, its nice watching snow on the Alpine grf :)
10:14<Ammller>dihedral: I just mean, is it possible to patch only the server for using it?
10:15<dihedral>yes
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>ln-: typical station sign in germany: http://www.kvg-braunschweig.de/Images/bhbhschild.jpg
10:16<dihedral>Ammller: http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/nextgame_reload_config.patch
10:16<dihedral>that is an svn diff
10:16<ln->Eddi|zuHause: yeah, i remember seeing those
10:16<dihedral>Ammller: still have to remove the debug messages i added :-P
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>incidentally, they look similar in east and west germany ;)
10:17<ln->Eddi|zuHause: typical local-traffic bus stop sing in finland: http://alk.tiehallinto.fi/www2/liikennemerkit/images/531.gif and similar for tram stops: http://alk.tiehallinto.fi/www2/liikennemerkit/images/533.gif
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>(typically a sign that the design is older than that)
10:17<dihedral>there - updated
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: do you use DBSetXL in Alpine?
10:19<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause: note that you are calling them 'signs' not 'icons' :_)
10:19<dihedral>s/_/-/
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: yes, signs have icons on them...
10:19<dihedral>:-P
10:19<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but I guess its not working atm, (the alpine set)
10:20<Ammller>a farm always disapear
10:20<Phazorx> icon has too many meaning, what you have in mind called "pictogram"
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i had similar problem... they said they fixed it, but some check must have slipped
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: can you confirm my refit problem with the ore wagons (1930's version)?
10:21|-|Rafagd [~kvirc@BHE200150027244.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has joined #openttd
10:21<Rafagd>hi all
10:21<dihedral>hello
10:22<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: Low side waggon?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: yes, the 4 axle version
10:23<Ammller>or Gondola?
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: i noticed that the farms survive if you used the production cheat on them during the first month
10:23<Ammller>hmm, has waggons no introduce infos?
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: no, the gondola appears much later
10:23<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: disable smooth economy
10:24<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: and what shouldn't work?
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: the wagon shows as if it is loading wood
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>instead of ore
10:29<Ammller>ok, I try that, glx, with disable smoth econmy it seems to work
10:30<Ammller>hmm, shouldn't the farm production be 0, when there is snow?
10:30<+glx>it is
10:31<Prof_Frink>Not if you're farming penguins.
10:32<Ammller>glx, needs it "full snow"? (whole white tile)
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>Ammller: the farm itself should turn snowy
10:33<ln->how bad does this look: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops.png
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>very...
10:34<ln->thanks
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10:36<ln->and this too? http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops2.png
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>so far, around half the issues i had with the alpine climate have been fixed, and one was added
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>still bad... the tram should not be significantly smaller than the bus
10:37<ln->the bus is too big
10:38|-|Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
10:38<ln->and i assume it's not ok if the pantograph doesn't fit on the light blue background area.
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion: remove one pixel from the bus, add a pixel on top of it as the pantograph, and add one line representing the catenary
10:41<huma>what's this "improved tree algorithm"?
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>it changes the way how trees are distributed at startup
10:42<huma>supposed to be "better"?
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>not "better", "improved" ;)
10:42<huma>ok :)
10:42<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause: I am not able to "build" a forest
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10:43<huma>terragenesis is also an "improved" version of the original generator?
10:43<Ammller>it always says "must be over snowline"
10:43<huma>Ammller: on arctic?
10:50<Ammller>huma: yes
10:50<Ammller>and how to build a brewery?
10:53<huma>yes, it has to be over snowline on arctic
10:55<Ammller>huma: I liked to build it in snow, everything is white there...
10:56<huma>yes, i like arctic myself :) snowy and windy :)
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11:00<Ammller>huma: I have not arctic, I have alpine
11:01<huma>ah, just hilly?
11:01<huma>is there a way to boost some industry?
11:01<Ammller>green grass and snowy mountains
11:02<huma>sweet
11:02<Ammller>ctrl-alt-c
11:03<huma>great.. oil production goes down by 13% just when i built the route
11:04<huma>evil opec games
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11:18<ln->one could argue that most airports are not approximately squares.
11:22<ln->rather 3:1 or 4:1
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11:24<Ammller>hmm, where is Eddi gone?
11:24<Ammller>I like to append ottd to gdb, but its not accessable over internet then...
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11:28<Wolf01>wooo newindustries
11:28<Wolf01>ehm, hello :D
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11:54<ln->Wolf01: what do you say, http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops2.png
11:54<Wolf01>the tram icon?
11:54<ln->(it's not an authentic screenshot)
11:54<ln->yes
11:55<Wolf01>nice
11:55<Wolf01>maybe make it bigger, only half a tram with the pantograph
11:55<Wolf01>so it seem bold like the others
11:56<ln->i'm not sure how big can it be, now it's 12x7.
11:56<ln->which is also the maximum of others
11:57<Wolf01>uhm, let me do some tryouts
11:58<Rafagd>ln-:
11:58<Rafagd>how about you put a bus, with that thing to collect eletricity on top?
11:59<ln->Rafagd: the bus is 6 pixels high already.
12:00<@Belugas>ln, just a question : what would you suggest for the bus equivalent?
12:00<@Belugas>i mean, the tram station is the same as the bus station, just with wires
12:01<ln->Belugas: there can be tram stations without road.
12:01<@Belugas>mmh... got a point
12:01<ln->Belugas: so i suggest there would be both bus and tram sign if both are possible.
12:01<Rafagd>ln-: hm.. reduce 1~2px high from bus, then put a line in the midle. (as it was two color)
12:02<ln->Belugas: "if both are possible" = if there is both road and wires in that column
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12:04<Wolf01>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/tramico.png <- picross helps
12:07<ln->my third attempt: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops3.png (height increased to 8 pixels, i'm not sure if that's acceptable)
12:07<Prof_Frink>Wolf01: That's very similar to what I just made
12:07<Wolf01>i think is not needed so much detail.. is an icon :P
12:08<ln->i think the pantograph needs to be what it's like in my version
12:08<ln->to be recongizable as pantograph
12:08<+glx>ln-: don't forget cargo trams :)
12:09<ln->glx: of course not. :) maybe the same + some windows painted black.
12:09<Prof_Frink>http://www.alanblanchflower.co.uk/images/ottd-tram.png
12:10<ln->Prof_Frink: it's a good icon, but makes me think of trolley buses, not trams. :/
12:11<@Belugas>i prefer Wolf01's approach, to be honest
12:11|-|Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-183-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
12:11<Digitalfox>TrueBrain: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/OpenTTD is down :\
12:11<@Belugas>Prof_Frink's not too bad either :D
12:12<Digitalfox>By the way, nice work belugas :)
12:13<@Belugas>thanks
12:13<@Belugas>but i'm far from been the only one on the adventure ;)
12:13<Rubidium>Digitalfox: that isn't something TrueBrain can do something about
12:14<ln->one more attempt: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops4.png
12:14<Digitalfox>Rubidium: Right, so who can?
12:15<Rubidium>I absolutely do not have a single clue
12:15<ln->Wolf01: could we see your version in context?
12:15<Digitalfox>ok
12:19|-|Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
12:19<ln->of my own drawings i probably like number 3 the most.
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12:19<Wolf01>http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/tramico_in_context.png
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12:21<ln->Wolf01: btw, i used this finnish traffic sign as an inspiration for my version: http://alk.tiehallinto.fi/www2/liikennemerkit/images/533.gif
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12:27<huma>ln-: what's that?
12:27<ln->what's what?
12:27<huma>ln-: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops4.png
12:27<huma>is it a patched version?
12:27<ln->no, it's a fake.
12:29<Ailure>hmm
12:29<Ailure>that one looks the best anyway
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12:30<Ailure>the others looks totally alien in TT :)
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12:33<dihedral>there is no ifdef for dedicated servers?
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12:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11205 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: remove some, now obsolete, checks.
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12:53<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11206 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1299]: half tram bits could be removed in some cases. Based on patches by frosch and skidd13.
12:53<CIA-4>OpenTTD: glx * r11207 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1301]: don't use smooth_economy for industries using production callbacks as they may have no production for more than a month
12:55<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11208 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1300]: tunnel excavation could disown somebody elses owned land. Patch by frosch.
12:55<Ailure>talk about last minute commits
12:56<Rubidium>last minute?
12:56<Rubidium>what are you talking about?
12:56<Ailure>the nightly is compiled within a few minutes
12:56<Ailure>:p
12:57<Rubidium>we haven't paused the nightly compile farm
12:57<Ailure>heh
12:57<Prof_Frink>Last minute is different OS' nightlies being different revs
12:58<Rubidium>Prof_Frink: that is like... can't happen
12:58<Ailure>just thought it was funny seeing severeal commits within ten minutes before the todays nightly compiles
12:58<Prof_Frink>I know
12:59<@Belugas>we just want to beark today's nightly ;)
12:59<Prof_Frink>Unless you go checkout/compile win32/checkout/compile win64/checkout...
12:59<Prof_Frink>Which would just be silly.
13:01<dihedral>Rubidium: for network servers because others dont have a reason to be editing the config by hand or via another tool
13:01<Ailure>hmm
13:01<Ailure>the compile farm started
13:01<Ailure>just the source listed for now
13:01<dihedral>Rubidium: moved it to network settings http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/network_nextgame_reload_cfg.patch
13:02<Ailure>I'm hammering the nightly page
13:02<Ailure>xD
13:02<Ailure>there we go
13:02<Ailure>win32 appeared
13:02<Ailure>and downloaded
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13:03<dihedral>never logon to irc with your windows logon :-P
13:04<Ailure>my first thought
13:04<Ailure>xD
13:04<Rubidium>why don't you make it just a command?
13:04<dihedral>Rubidium: because it has to be executed when one game is over and before the next starts... no?
13:05[~]Prof_Frink /whoises everyone to find root@...
13:05<Rubidium>just writing stuff to _patches_newgame instead of _patches
13:05<dihedral>will that work for _opt and the grfconfig ?
13:06<dihedral>will i be able to change the landscape and map size?
13:06<Rubidium>well... I guess so
13:06<Ailure>ack
13:06<Ailure>how was I so stupid
13:06<Ailure>I downloaded the dos version of some GRF
13:06<dihedral>pluss i have to call the command each time i want to load a new cfg
13:06<Ailure>no wonder it was so glitchy looking
13:07<Rubidium>then why add the command to change the variable
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13:07<Rubidium>if you do it each time, you should've configured it in the first place.
13:07<dihedral>say your config sets the var to true
13:08<dihedral>and you like your current setup, but have already made some changes (or someone else has) and would like the next game to have the same newgrfs settings, etc
13:08<dihedral>you can set the var to false and it will not reload the cfg
13:08<Rubidium>then you run "saveconfig"
13:08<dihedral>and overwrite the settings you have already changed
13:12<dihedral>Rubidium: you find that makes no sense or is too 'complicated'?
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13:25<Ammller>hmm, I had my assert
13:25<Ammller>but can't run it with dbg
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13:27<mcbane>hmm
13:27<mcbane>in ECS construction yard accept nothing and produce nothing =/
13:28<@Belugas>could you specify which ECS and which version?
13:29<@Belugas>and for everyone, a little explanation that would be nice to read:
13:29<@Belugas>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=34331
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13:34<mcbane>he didnt update all files are updated on one date
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13:35<mcbane>some are eft out (nothing changed?)
13:36<Ammller>Is there another way to debug it, because I can't use dbg on my server, as it seems.
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13:38<Ammller>dihedral: you know now Autopilot quite well
13:38<Ammller>can you say me, how I can see the depug infos
13:39<dihedral>there are debug infos?
13:40<dihedral>or do you mean the debug info from openttd
13:40<Ammller>yeah, the usal dbg lines
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13:41<Ammller>yeah, I mean the infos from openttd
13:41<Ammller>autopilot seems to filter some of the output
13:42<mcbane>oh yea and in ECS recommended is start with normal ammount of inductry else you get a funny colorful carpet as map. =D
13:44<Wolf01>there's a chance to have the diagonal foundations patch on trunk
13:44<Ammller>someone else testing alpine?
13:45<Ammller>I am not able to place forests (must be over snowline), fish ground and brewery
13:45<Ammller>(oh, is alpine AND newcargo)
13:46<Wolf01>the forest were always allowed only over snowline
13:46<Wolf01>on alpine
13:46<dihedral>Ammller: add http://paste.openttd.org/240 infront of if {[string first "Current/maximum companies: " $linestr] == 0} {
13:47<dihedral>and set your debug_level up :-)
13:47<dihedral>autopilot sets it to 0 when it starts
13:51<Ammller>dihedral: is around row 330
13:54<Ammller>exp_send "debug_level net=0\r" <-- change to net=3?
13:55<Rubidium>Ammller: the debug output OpenTTD is totally useless in fixing that assertion
13:55<Ammller>if I try to catch the process with dbg openttd <pid>, then the server is not accessable anymore
13:57<Rubidium>cause the pauses the server
13:57<Rubidium>try typing 'cont'
13:58<Ammller>omg
13:59<dihedral>you can chance that value in the game Ammler
13:59<dihedral>or there if you like
14:03<dihedral>reset_company should work the way companies are made backrupt in the game
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14:03<dihedral>i.e. players in that company are made spectators
14:03<Ammller>dihedral: thanks, but Rubidums "cont" seems to work
14:04<dihedral>k
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14:08<Ammller>Rubidium: I don't get any output there, does that write a file?
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14:18<Ammller>thats my output: http://paste.openttd.org/241
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14:24<gfldex>somebody quickly implement this kind of transportation! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fqpp-IAXF0
14:25<Rubidium>Ammller: it only does something when it actually crashes
14:25<Rubidium>and then you must certainly NOT close the application
14:26<Rubidium>I hope you've started that instance of GDB in a screen though
14:26<@Bjarni>wtf
14:26<@Bjarni>possibly drunk driver detected
14:26<Rubidium>gfldex: you can already do that via NewGRFs
14:27<@Bjarni>yeah
14:27<@Bjarni>I don't think that vehicle can pass a safety inspection though
14:27<Rafagd>Bjarni: drunk drivers should be implemented as disasters
14:27<Ammller>Rubidium: of course, I have
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14:29<Prof_Frink>Rafagd: "Drunk driver in TOWNNAME crashes into bus, dies. Bus is slightly damaged"
14:29<Rafagd>Prof_Frink: what if the drunken driver is a bus driver? ;D
14:29<@Bjarni>then he is fired
14:30<Rafagd>Bjarni: after or before the chaos?
14:30<@Bjarni>a few years ago a car hit the last car in a train here. The railroad said that the crossing was functionally normally (they checked the log before telling the press) so this driver was either asleep or drunk
14:31<Prof_Frink>Or just plain stupid
14:31<@Bjarni>even if the crossing didn't work, the train was in the crossing. This is normally reason enough for cars to stop
14:31<ln->Bjarni: which one do you prefer, http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/tramico_in_context.png or http://www.alanblanchflower.co.uk/images/ottd-tram.png or http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops3.png or http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramstops4.png ?
14:31<Rafagd>the last car in the train got an scratch?
14:31<@Bjarni>yeah
14:31<@Bjarni>scratched paint
14:32<@Bjarni>and unluckily a busted airpipe
14:32<@Bjarni>so the brake died
14:32<Rafagd>ugh
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14:32<@Bjarni>or rather, wouldn't disengage before being manually disabled on that car
14:32<@Bjarni>that sucks
14:32<@Bjarni>but apart from that, I think it was fine
14:32<Rafagd>anything left from the car?
14:33<@Bjarni>I don't know
14:33<Prof_Frink>In TTD, a vehicle driving into a stationary train at ~2mph suffers a catastrophic explosion.
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14:33<hylje>Prof_Frink: in TTD, a locomotive hitting the rear end of another at 2mph causes both trains to explode dramatically
14:33<Rafagd>Prof_Frink: it's osama's car
14:33<@Bjarni>ohh... and a steering car was damaged (also a few years ago) because it hit a parked car in a crossing o_O
14:34<Ailure>simple
14:34<Ailure>road vehicles consists of anti-train matter
14:34<Ailure>:P
14:34<@Bjarni>still don't beat the incident in Malmö though
14:34<Rafagd>ugh
14:34<Rafagd>utf8
14:35<Ailure>Malmö
14:35<Rafagd>tks :D
14:35<Ailure>lol no problem
14:35<Ailure>:P
14:35<@Bjarni>a Swedish railroad worker showed up on the parking lot and it was full, so he parked on a track, that they never used. That day a signal broke and a freight train reversed though that particular track
14:36<@Bjarni>that was one 3 week old volvo that would never look like a volvo again
14:36<Rafagd>i would turn on utf8 my client options, but i'm brazilian, and in brazilian channels, everyone use latin-1 =(
14:36<hylje>haha
14:36<@Bjarni>and AFAIK the insurance don't cover if you do something as stupid as parking on the track
14:36<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11209 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp slope.h): -Codechange: remove some magic numbers and bit magic with appropriate enums and functions. Patch by frosch.
14:37<Rafagd>hm...
14:37<Rafagd>anti-magic update
14:37<Rafagd>=(
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14:37<m4rk_>hi
14:37<hylje>when are frosch commit rights expected?
14:38<@Bjarni>some train driver told me this and he thought it was pretty funny to tell how Swedish switching yards do it in reality, though I don't think it's common even for Swedes to do something this stupid :P
14:38<@Bjarni>hi m4rk_
14:38<Rafagd>ln-: tram4 is better
14:38<@Belugas>[15:40] <hylje> when are frosch commit rights expected?
14:38<@Belugas>[
14:38<@Bjarni>hylje: that's a concern of the people with commit rights and frosch
14:39<@Belugas>when it will be time :)
14:39<Prof_Frink>So basically, it's when his cheque clears
14:39<@Bjarni>yeah
14:39<mcbane>belugas i change the way ottd loads the newgrf of esc and all is working so far =)
14:39<@Belugas>no, in this case, it is when he will feel ready for it :)
14:40<@Bjarni>Belugas: one will not rule out the other one ;)
14:40<@Belugas>mcbane: nice, but... could you share?
14:41<mcbane>i lokoed in the ecs thread hows the order of files to be loaded.
14:41<@Belugas>Bjarni: so you're the one who stole the check!
14:41<@Bjarni>what check?
14:41<@Bjarni>I don't know what you are talking about
14:41<mcbane>belugas share?
14:41<mcbane>*:
14:41<@Belugas>like... tell us of your experience :)
14:41<@Bjarni>mcbane: yeah... like posting a diff somewhere
14:42<@Belugas>like: which ECS did you uised, waht was the wrong order, which is the right order, etc..
14:42<mcbane>umm.. i used the normal ESC grfs files i got from georges page
14:42<@Belugas>all of them?
14:42<@Belugas>some of them?
14:43<dihedral>hehe - that patch works well :-)
14:43<mcbane>all
14:43<@Belugas>and not the ones from the forums?
14:43<mcbane>well all normal ones not the used for
14:43<mcbane>the normal climate (not desert/alpine)
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14:44<mcbane>i wrote him a pm if he can get all his file on one date (update) so no one get confused whith all the different dated and versions.
14:57<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11210 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: unify the way that selection sprites are drawn. Patch by frosch.
14:58<mcbane>hmm generating instustry is no quite long
14:58<ln->Bjarni: do you have me on ignore?
14:59<@Bjarni>I don't think so
14:59<ln->ok, good
14:59<ln->see my line at 21:31 CET
14:59<@Bjarni>oh you posted links
15:00<@Bjarni>I guess I had you on a mental ignore :P
15:00<@Bjarni>either that or I paid too much attention to the other thing I was doing at that time
15:01<@Bjarni>I think 4 is the best one, but it's not my decision alone
15:01<@Bjarni>I would totally object to the first one (it really looks odd) and the 2nd one looks more like a trolly bus
15:01<ln->Bjarni: the whole decision of whether trams should have their own icon is yet to be made, i guess.
15:02<@Bjarni>that too
15:02<ln->although the correct answer is that they should.
15:02<Rafagd>i think they shoudn't
15:02<@Bjarni>I think we should try to agree
15:03<ln->Bjarni: heh, my thoughts exactly abount 2nd one; it's a good icon but looks like a trolley bus, not a tram.
15:03<Rafagd>which would be the same behavior of trains -> eletric trains
15:03<Ailure>well in many cases it would be reduant for me
15:03<Prof_Frink>I don't
15:03<Ailure>many times
15:03<Ailure>my tram stations
15:03<Ailure>can as well be used as bus stations too
15:03<@Bjarni>yeah, this is an issue
15:03<ln->Rafagd: but trams aren't electrified buses.
15:05<@Bjarni>btw indicating that I like the 4th best isn't the same as we should use that one
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15:05<@Bjarni>IF we use a sprite for this, then nobody said that it has to be one of your sprites
15:05<skidd13>good evening
15:06<@Bjarni>we will naturally use the best one we have access to at the time we should pick one
15:06<@Bjarni>hi skidd13
15:06<ln->Bjarni: naturally
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15:09<skidd13>src/newgrf_industries.cpp line 216 is evil :D
15:10<Ailure>What does it do?
15:10<skidd13>byte colour1, colour2; ///< Not initializing these two will give some kind of random
15:10<+glx>skidd13: we know the potential problem
15:11<@Belugas>skidd13 : http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/var45_protect.diff
15:12<skidd13>Belugas: Ahh :) Better
15:13<@Belugas>problem is that i used the same logic (but in ottd environnement) as what the asm code is doing in ttdp
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15:14<skidd13>So tainted code or what?
15:14<@Belugas>well... to a process level yes
15:15<@Belugas>or to a logical process...
15:15<@Belugas>ttdp does not explicitely set a result to the calling function, making the result basically random
15:16<@Belugas>but we need a controled random process, so it had to be corrected
15:16<@Belugas>just in case something could go wrong
15:16<skidd13>Agreed
15:16<@Belugas>Rubidium spotted it almost instantaneously
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15:17<skidd13>I noticed it earlier too, but thought it would be solved after a few revisons. (Thought of devs with g++ environment)
15:18<skidd13>Can someone of the devs check FS1263
15:19<@Belugas>if it involves Vadim, no way!
15:20<skidd13>LOL no don't mention this name.
15:21<skidd13>And no it does not involve the intolerant redmond OS user.
15:21<@Belugas>I do like it. The patch, not the name ;)
15:21<skidd13>Both, cause they do different things
15:22<@Belugas>i don't know how right is patch4, but 5 has my vote
15:22<DaleStan>Belugas: Since we're talking about it, is newgrf_industries.cpp:234 really supposed to be GetIndustryRandomBits, and not GetIndustryTileRandomBits?
15:22<@Belugas>4 seems to be fine, just not in the environnemet to deep look
15:22[~]Belugas checks
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15:22<Betalord>hello
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15:23<DaleStan>I don't know if the later name exists, but it seems more logical for the job.
15:23<Betalord>I read that you guys have problems with hosting the server for openttd, was just wondering was that web server or game server (and svn etc.)?
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15:27<@Belugas>DaleStan, do we agree that random bits are coming from the maparray? if so, than var 61 do indeed has the right functionnality. The name may be strange in that context,
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15:28<@Belugas>but it comes from the fact that is is related to the map accessors, who do not make distinction between industry and industry tile
15:28<DaleStan>In TTDPatch, the tile random bits are stored in the map array. The industry random bits are stored in the industry structure.
15:28<DaleStan>So it's just a strange name. OK.
15:29<@Belugas>now... you make me wonder how we call it :)
15:29[~]Belugas goes back in searching
15:31|-|m4rk_ changed nick to Franco_Begbie
15:34<@Belugas>DaleStan, where on specs are those industry random bits specified?
15:36<DaleStan>RandomAction2, albeit indirectly, under the Industry Tiles section.
15:38<DaleStan>The 16 (I think; Firefox is not behaving right now) random bits that all tiles share, accessed with type 83.
15:39<@Belugas>so, it is 8 bits on map array and 16 on industry struct itself...
15:39<@Belugas>mmh...
15:42<dihedral>network_nextgame_reload_cfg patch in the forums :-) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=34333
15:43<@Belugas>DaleStan, looks like we do not have that structure
15:44<dihedral>@seen Chris82
15:44<@DorpsGek>dihedral: Chris82 was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 5 days, 12 hours, 16 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Chris82> good morning
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's a long morning ;)
15:46<@Bjarni>whoa
15:46<@Bjarni>is it morning already?
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
15:46|-|Hendikins [~wolfox@CPE-124-189-3-149.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>[somewhere]
15:46<@Bjarni>like at Hendikins'
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, like that...
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>you just beat me :p
15:47<@Bjarni>Hendikins: how is work? :)
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>hm... "new" scrubs episodes tomorrow...
15:47<mcbane>wann?
15:48<mcbane>err when
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>15:00 or so...
15:48<@Bjarni>cool
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>same time as always
15:48<@Bjarni>I just got informed about an episode from a series that I don't know being transmitted on a channel that I can't see
15:49<@Bjarni>great info
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>i could also tell you that i'm going mushroom hunting tomorrow, if that helps you :p
15:49<@Bjarni>even better
15:50<@Bjarni>it will tell me to put you on ignore when you return
15:50<@Bjarni>maybe even ban for the rest of the day
15:50<mcbane>heh
15:50<@Bjarni>we shouldn't allow high people to spam with nonsense
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>hm... hunting is the wrong word... catching...
15:50<@Bjarni>with nets or traps?
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
15:50<@Bjarni>hmm
15:51<mcbane>with spears and axes ..
15:51<@Bjarni>what does a mushroom trap look like?
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>you hide behind a tree and jump out if they run past you
15:52[~]Bjarni considers the possibility that Eddi|zuHause already tried some mushrooms
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15:52<Eddi|zuHause>well... and if there is no "Pilz", there's always a "Pils" instead...
15:52<@Bjarni>:D
15:53<joosa>Pils is a tasty beer.
15:53<@Bjarni>ohh that reminds me
15:53<@Bjarni>I got an email the other day telling me that I will likely get an invitation to Carlsberg
15:53<@Bjarni>to see the brewery and stuff
15:53<Betalord>I just downloaded ttd after a long time, windows zip package, upon runing the game it says "Your 'sample.cat' file is corrupted or missing!". How's that? :)
15:54<@Bjarni>Betalord: start by reading the readme :P
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>Betalord: well, your sample cat is corrupted or missing :p
15:54<Betalord>yes I got that part :)
15:54<@Bjarni>most likely missing
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>the readme says what to do about that
15:54<Betalord>ah nevermind, I see now I need data files from iriginal ttd :)
15:55<@Bjarni>basically we don't help people who didn't read this
15:55<@Bjarni>and we might not help people, who are too stupid to understand that part of the readme either :P
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>also, we can't help people to get them...
15:56<Betalord>np, I was just too lazy to open the readme ;)
15:56<@Bjarni>they are available on eBay, but odds are that it's pirated copies and then... well I would never pay for pirated software. It's just wrong on so many levels
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15:58<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: We can't even tell people about topic 3407 on the forums?
15:59<Betalord>ok, works now
16:00<@Bjarni>well
16:00<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink isn't related to this project... he is just here
16:00<@Bjarni>we aren't responsible for his actions
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16:05<Rafagd>There is any way to tell if a rail is the last one?
16:06<Rubidium>well, if you want to know that, you need to check all tiles for rail
16:06<Rafagd>i just want to know if the rail isn't conected to another in at least 1 side
16:08<Rafagd>Rubidium: there is GetTileByXY? =\
16:08<Rubidium>TileXY?
16:11<Rafagd>hm...
16:12<Rafagd>if it was a monster
16:12<Rafagd>i was already dead
16:12<Rafagd>=|
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16:15|-|mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ
16:16|-|glx changed nick to Guest987
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16:32<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11211 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1302]: NewGRF GUI scrollbar does funny things when being resized.
16:35<ln->Eddi|zuHause: correction to my earlier reference to "cmdr Data"; he was only a lieutenant commander at the time.
16:36<Tefad>you guys are spazes
16:37<ln->and oh, he's not even going to be promoted beyond that.
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16:42<skidd13>Rubidium: Damn you. I just wanted to upload the fix... ;)
16:43<skidd13>Rubidium: if ((e->we.sizing.diff.y / 14) > 0 && w->vscroll.pos > 0) w->vscroll.pos--;
16:44<Rubidium>but what if it were two newgrfs outside of the window and you enlarge the window very rapidly (like more than 28 pixels at once)
16:45<skidd13>Hmm, you beat me...
16:48|-|elmex [~elmex@e180065096.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:49<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11212 /trunk/src/ (functions.h gfx.cpp gfx.h viewport.cpp viewport.h): -Codechange: add support for drawing parts of sprites. Patch by frosch.
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>what's the purpose of that feature?
16:51<Wolf01>'night
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16:53<Rubidium>not needing a gazillion sprites when you can get the same result from a single sprite
16:53<Rubidium>one could use it for a less zig-zag transition between the different snow levels on hills/mountains
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like replacing rail tiles, where you only need part of the tile on bridges?
16:54<Rubidium>that won't work as you need to have something rectangular
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i kinda feared that...
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>what disturbs me most about the snowline is the instantaneous transition on rail/road tiles
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>which often is along half-slopes, where you always go between snow and grass, even though the rail is on the same level
16:56|-|mcbane changed nick to nairan_ZZzz
16:56<nairan_ZZzz>night
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17:10<skidd13>night
17:11<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11213 /trunk/src/ (39 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#1298]: confusing messages when trying to build a bridge.
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17:25<dihedral>anybody left?
17:26<Rubidium>well, looking at the amount of people quiting, quite a few people left
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17:28<dihedral>lol - meant 'left inside' ... :-)
17:29<Rubidium>then no
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17:31<Sacro>is the flying dutchman here?
17:35<CIA-4>OpenTTD: glx * r11214 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Fix [FS#1296]: planes can't use heliports so refuse these orders
17:36<+glx>22 min, not bad ;)
17:38<Sacro>"This key is only intended for staff and students at Designhögskolan and should not be shared with others."
17:38<Sacro>isn't it funny what googlebot indexes
17:39<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11215 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: replace magic constants with less magic symbols. Patch by skidd13.
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18:27<Rav|Here>hi
18:28<Sacro> hey
18:29<Rav|Here>it's quiet
18:31[~]Ben_1 yells Hello loudly
18:31<Rav|Here>@lemon Ben_1
18:31<Ravbot>Ben_1 is a lemon!
18:31<Rav|Here>err
18:31<Rav|Here>hi
18:31<Ben_1>hi..!
18:32<Rav|Here>it's still quiet though :p
18:32<Rav|Here>@publiccommands
18:32<Ravbot>@cookie, @smack, @version, @lemon, @boot, @bless, @ascii, @kenny
18:33<Tefad>@lemon
18:33<Rav|Here>@lemon [name]
18:33<Ravbot>[name] is a lemon!
18:33<Tefad>what is thisnonsense
18:35<Rav|Here>it's my bot..
18:35<ln->who requested it?
18:35<Rav|Here>it follows me
18:36<Tefad>seriously
18:36<Tefad>stop that ; )
18:36<Rav|Here>lol,k
18:36<Rav|Here>@part #openttd
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18:36<Ben_1>what the hell...
18:37<Tefad>you are one crazy IRC user
18:37<Tefad>i've not seen something like that since 1998
18:37<Tefad>did you just step out of a time machine or something?
18:37<Rav|Here>I'm catching up with modern times..
18:37<Tefad>personal "bots" died out last millennia
18:38<Rav|Here>I'll remember that..
18:38<Tefad>er millennium.
18:38<Rav|Here>though if they are scripted right they can actually be useful
18:38<Tefad>not really.
18:38<Rav|Here>(they also need to be in the right context)
18:38<Tefad>they're only helpful in social channels that need added amusement
18:39<Tefad>some info bots are handy when users come in asking the same questions over and over
18:39<Rav|Here>I had a few of those: @faq (read the faq), @google (google is your friend) and @search (use the search button)
18:39<Rav|Here>but I never used them :p
18:40<Tefad>google is useless
18:40<Tefad>that's what web browsers are for.
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18:52<huma>ha! 2 subsidies for the same route in a row :)
18:53<SmatZ>huma: it is not a bug, it is a feature
18:53<huma>neat :)
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19:18<huma>hmm, here goes the 3rd subsidy :)
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19:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: belugas * r11216 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Codechange: Protect the callback who would access var 45 against a randomness that could eventually cause desynchs. Instead, use a controlled random value.
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20:06<Phazorx>well since PBI is on the menu now we ened to get sac to do trees for alpine...
20:07<Sacro>ZOMG NEWINDUSTRIES
20:07<Sacro>Born_Acorn! NEWINDUSTRIES!
20:07<Sacro>peter1138! newindustries!
20:07<Sacro>@seen peter1138
20:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 16 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <peter1138> _minime_, looks good to me
20:08<Phazorx>really tho, default trees look horrable
20:09[~]Sacro considers starting Sacro's Nightly Server
20:10<huma>what? new industries?
20:11<Sacro>yes
20:11[~]Belugas thinks Sacro has been sleeping the whole day...
20:11<Sacro>Belugas: no, at uni, then at a mates
20:15<@Belugas>:)
20:15<@Belugas>looks like a good day :)
20:17<@Belugas>'night
20:18<Sacro>night
20:19<Phazorx>hmm... how do i get brick chain to work?
20:19<+glx>load PBI first
20:19<Phazorx>or is it temperate only?
20:19<Phazorx>it is loaded 1st, right before
20:25<Phazorx>so only temperate
20:25<Phazorx>and only one quary on 8x8
20:25<Phazorx>is it "site" based
20:25<Phazorx>have to be particular slope?
20:28<+glx>yes quarry need a specific landscape
20:28<Sacro>openttd over x-forwarding sucks :(
20:29<+glx>laggy Sacro?
20:29<Sacro>glx: yes
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20:39<Phazorx>well 5 quaries on 6 8x8 maps :(
20:39<Phazorx>is there a trick?
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20:42<Sacro>wtf
20:42<Sacro>where does the nightly store openttd.cfg
20:42<+glx>windows?
20:43<Sacro>yes
20:43<Sacro>tell it to GTFO of $HOMEDIR
20:43<+glx>mydocs\openttd by default
20:43<+glx>but if there is one in exe dir it will use it
20:47<Sacro>ooh, t'works
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22:06<toresbe>hey :)
22:06<toresbe>I've got a question about path-based signalling
22:07<toresbe>I'm running latest SVN and I'm running a save game now and I've disabled YAPF to try to build some of these signals
22:07<toresbe>but I can't seem to
22:07<toresbe>any hints?
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22:08<toresbe>is it a build option, or something...?
22:12<toresbe>shit, it's 5am
22:12[~]toresbe goes to bed
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 06 00:00:25 2007