--- | Log | opened Sat Oct 06 00:00:25 2007 |
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00:37 | <SquireJames> | Hello, I was just wondering if anyone knew if anyone had any plans for Restrictive Signalling in OTTD |
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00:42 | <De_Ghost> | or a always green signal |
00:42 | <De_Ghost> | lol |
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01:00 | <SquireJames> | Okay, i'll ask here ;) |
01:01 | <SquireJames> | Does OpenTTD support enhancedtunnels or custombridgeheads? |
01:03 | <DaleStan> | toresbe: PBS was removed ages ago. (Before 0.5.0) |
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01:31 | <Die> | identify |
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01:34 | <SquireJames> | Right, sorry if i bother people with questions but |
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04:04 | <Wolf01> | hello |
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04:52 | <dihedral> | morning... :-) |
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05:54 | <toresbe> | DaleStan: ah. The wiki does not reflect this :) |
06:02 | <XeryusTC> | <SquireJames> Does OpenTTD support enhancedtunnels or custombridgeheads? <- no, no |
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06:14 | <Tefad> | i've not known many wiki's to be very reflective |
06:14 | <Tefad> | try a mirror instead |
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07:19 | <dihedral> | max_ships = 0 a and i was just offered a hovercraft :-) |
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08:19 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11217 /trunk/ (Makefile.in readme.txt): -Update: the readme as some things weren't quite right anymore. |
08:20 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: glx * r11218 /trunk/ (Makefile.in config.lib): -Codechange: remove unused ENABLE_INSTALL in Makefile.in, and add --disable-unicode in configure help |
08:21 | <Betalord> | is that autoreplace button working? |
08:21 | <+glx> | in depots? |
08:21 | <Betalord> | I tried dragging a plane to it (in the hangar) to replace it as it was old, but it didn't do anything |
08:21 | <+glx> | you just need to clic on it |
08:21 | <Betalord> | so I had to sell it and buy a new one |
08:22 | <+glx> | it's a real button |
08:22 | <@Bjarni> | you press that button and then it will try to replace everything in the depot |
08:22 | <Betalord> | I clicked too, nothing happened |
08:22 | <@Bjarni> | make sure that you have enough money and all that |
08:22 | <+glx> | and it doesn't renew, but replace |
08:22 | <@Bjarni> | and that you set up replace for the engine in question |
08:22 | <Betalord> | yeah, money's no a problem. 200 million will do? ;) |
08:22 | <Betalord> | aha, how do I set up a replacement? |
08:23 | <+glx> | in vehicle list |
08:23 | <@Bjarni> | 200 million is not really a useful info as it lacks the info about currency and if you set up some obscene autorenew money setting |
08:23 | <+glx> | manage list, replace |
08:23 | <Betalord> | (I thought it would just replace it with the same model, just that it's new) |
08:23 | <Betalord> | let me check |
08:23 | <@Bjarni> | <Betalord> (I thought it would just replace it with the same model, just that it's new) <-- this is what it will NOT do ;) |
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08:25 | <Betalord> | ok again, where can I set up a replacement? |
08:25 | <Betalord> | can't find any button or anything anywhere |
08:25 | <+glx> | open vehicle list |
08:25 | <Betalord> | in the hanger? |
08:26 | <+glx> | no in the toolbar |
08:26 | <Betalord> | the plane button, bottom right? |
08:26 | <Betalord> | ah, moment |
08:26 | <Betalord> | ah, found it: manage list -> replace vehicles |
08:26 | <@Bjarni> | http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Autoreplace |
08:26 | |-| | valhalla1w changed nick to valhallasw |
08:27 | <@Bjarni> | glx: you need to be quicker to point to the wiki |
08:27 | <dihedral> | Rubidium: [14:20] <dihedral> max_ships = 0 a and i was just offered a hovercraft :-) |
08:27 | <dihedral> | is that normal :-) |
08:27 | <@Bjarni> | heh |
08:27 | <dihedral> | or is that intended? |
08:27 | <@Bjarni> | a hovercraft is not a ship as it's ON the water, not IN the water :P |
08:27 | <@Bjarni> | however the game don't know that difference |
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08:28 | <dihedral> | and out of which depot does it come |
08:28 | <+glx> | dihedral: you can't buy it but it's not a problem for the game |
08:28 | <@Bjarni> | ship depot |
08:28 | <dihedral> | and how many can you build if max_ships is set to 0 |
08:28 | <@Bjarni> | 0 |
08:28 | <dihedral> | :-) |
08:28 | <dihedral> | glx: i would not have thought it were a prob to the game |
08:28 | <dihedral> | it's just missleading |
08:28 | <dihedral> | and not very nice |
08:29 | <+glx> | well, make a patch to prevent it ;) |
08:29 | <@Bjarni> | you have an autosave from just before it happened |
08:29 | <@Bjarni> | keep it |
08:29 | <@Bjarni> | so you can test |
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08:29 | <@Bjarni> | by keeping, I mean move it elsewhere so it's not overwritten |
08:30 | <Betalord> | Bjarni, how does this work though? Does it replace all vehicles of that type, or just too old ones, or can you even controle which individual vehicles to replace? |
08:30 | <dihedral> | i do ... http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/FPN/autosave10.sav |
08:30 | <@Bjarni> | Betalord: all of them |
08:30 | <+glx> | but you can prevent some groups to be replaced |
08:31 | <@Bjarni> | globally next time they enter a depot (or if they are already in a depot and you click the button) |
08:31 | <+glx> | IIRC |
08:31 | <Betalord> | Bjarni, that is not very useful though |
08:31 | <@Bjarni> | o_O |
08:31 | <Betalord> | I want to replace just the ones that are too old etc. |
08:31 | <+glx> | there's autorenew for that |
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08:31 | <Betalord> | oh, where's that? :) |
08:32 | <+glx> | in patches option |
08:32 | <Betalord> | aha found that option. How does it work? When vehicle gets old is gets to hangar automatically and new one is bought? |
08:33 | <+glx> | http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Autorenew |
08:33 | <Betalord> | ok this is not what I'm looking for either, I don't want some old outdated models to get replaced by the same outdated models, I want to have some control over it |
08:34 | <+glx> | use autoreplace for outdated->newer |
08:34 | <@Bjarni> | updated that wiki page |
08:35 | <@Bjarni> | somebody wrote something incorrectly :( |
08:35 | <+glx> | autorenew for old->new (same type) |
08:35 | <@Bjarni> | please reload |
08:35 | <Betalord> | ok |
08:36 | <Betalord> | ok, I still don't get it - how can I make use of the "Autoreplace all aircraft in the hangar" button? |
08:36 | <@Bjarni> | say you have a plane of type A in the hangar |
08:37 | <@Bjarni> | and you want it to be type B |
08:37 | <@Bjarni> | then you set up autoreplace so A->B |
08:37 | <Betalord> | in vehicles list, you mean? |
08:37 | <@Bjarni> | and then you press the button to activate that replace rule on all aircraft in the hangar |
08:37 | <@Bjarni> | <Bjarni> then you set up autoreplace so A->B <-- in the autoreplace window, which is opened from the vehicle list |
08:38 | <Betalord> | yes I've got that set up, but the button in hangar still doesn't do anything |
08:38 | <@Bjarni> | then you did something wrong :P |
08:38 | <Betalord> | should I enable "Start replacing vehicles" in that vehicle list? |
08:38 | <@Bjarni> | YES |
08:38 | <@Bjarni> | do as the wiki tell you to do |
08:38 | <Betalord> | because last time that I clicked that, it replaced ALL of myy planes of that type, which is NOT what I want |
08:39 | <@Bjarni> | autoreplace is a tool to use when you want to replace a whole lot of one type to another one |
08:39 | <@Bjarni> | it's actually not really designed to replace just a single vehicle |
08:39 | <+glx> | it's a global replacement but using groups you can prevent unwanted replacements |
08:40 | <+glx> | (nightly feature) |
08:40 | <Betalord> | ok I guess I'm doing something wrong |
08:40 | <Betalord> | my goal: to replace aircrafts in the hanger with new ones |
08:40 | <Betalord> | what I did: |
08:40 | <Betalord> | went to vehicle list, then manage list -> replace vehicles |
08:41 | <Betalord> | selected the type that I want to replace on left pane, selected type B on right pane |
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08:41 | <Betalord> | now 2 different scenarios: |
08:41 | <Betalord> | a) I clicked "start replacing vehicles". That replaced ALL of my planes of that type, which is not what I want at all |
08:42 | <+glx> | that is how it is supposed to work |
08:42 | <Betalord> | b) I didn't click the replace button, but I did set up type B on the right pane. I went to hangar where I had a plane of type A parked, and clicked "Autoreplace all aircraft in hangar". Nothing happened |
08:42 | <@Bjarni> | this is how it's supposed to work |
08:43 | <Betalord> | now my question is, how do I replace that plane in the hangar with new plane?* |
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08:43 | <@Bjarni> | as I said: it's designed to work on a whole lot of vehicles, not just a single one |
08:43 | <Betalord> | (withouth selling it and buying a new one) |
08:43 | <@Bjarni> | you can't, unless you mess with vehicle groups |
08:43 | <@Bjarni> | selling and buying a new one is likely faster |
08:43 | <+glx> | in nightlies you can group vehicules and protect them against global replacements |
08:44 | <Betalord> | ok, then tell me what does the "Autoreplace all vehicles in hangar" button do? Beceuse it doesn't do anything in my case |
08:44 | <+glx> | autoreplace is done when vehicle enter in depot |
08:44 | <@Bjarni> | normally autoreplace trigger one vehicles once they enter a depot. If your depot is full of that type of vehicle when you start to replace, you can hit that button to replace everything inside |
08:45 | <@Bjarni> | otherwise you would have to make all of them leave and return to replace them |
08:45 | <Betalord> | hm I don't understand |
08:45 | <@Bjarni> | that's basically the only use I can find for this button, but people requested it, so I made it |
08:46 | <Betalord> | why would such a button be needed if autoreplacement is done automatically anyway? |
08:46 | <@Bjarni> | most of the time it's not needed |
08:46 | <+glx> | because autoreplacement is not done if the vehicle is already stopped in depot |
08:46 | <@Bjarni> | but imagine this |
08:47 | <Betalord> | ok anyway, my suggestion is this: make it so that upon clicking on this button all the planes parked in the hanger are replaced with new ones, according to rules set in "autoreplace list" |
08:47 | <skidd13> | My current openttd binary segfaults sometimes when autosave :( |
08:47 | <@Bjarni> | you stopped say 10 vehicles in the depot, then you set replace for them, hit the replace button and stop the replace setting in the autoreplace window |
08:47 | <skidd13> | s/when/during/ |
08:47 | <@Bjarni> | skidd13: that's bad |
08:47 | <@Bjarni> | what OS? |
08:47 | <+glx> | bad chars? |
08:47 | <skidd13> | Bjarni: Debian Linux |
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08:48 | <@Bjarni> | the OSX port had an autosave issue. It was due to letters like ä, but I think unicode got rid of this for good |
08:49 | <skidd13> | The problem is that the autosave works as normal quite a long time and then suddenly bang. |
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08:49 | <+glx> | maybe a NULL dereference in saveload code |
08:49 | <@Bjarni> | btw ä is a bad letter not to be able to use as the savegame by default also includes the name of the month |
08:49 | <@Bjarni> | skidd13: play in a debugger to figure out why it dies |
08:50 | <@Bjarni> | would be nice to know which line it dies in |
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08:55 | <Phazorx> | are there any NI crucial changes since last nighty? |
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08:56 | <skidd13> | The stange thing is, it happens from time to time, I noticed it after the NewIndustries got in, but I can't really reproduce. |
08:57 | <skidd13> | That's what I got in the console. |
08:57 | <skidd13> | "Laden des Spieles fehlgeschlagen" = "Savegame loading aborted" |
08:57 | <skidd13> | "Spielstandsdatei defekt" = "savegame corrupted" - Invalid chunk size |
08:57 | <TrueBrain> | out of diskspace? |
08:57 | <skidd13> | Hmm, still 3,8 GB free |
09:01 | <skidd13> | If I notice it again I'll tell you |
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09:03 | <TrueBrain> | idiotic Windows Media Encoder... it doesn't output a thing :s |
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09:03 | <Phazorx> | hmm... 11218 doesnt want to compile with AI bug |
09:03 | <Phazorx> | In file included from /home/ottdcoop/svn-devserver/src/ai/ai.cpp:5: |
09:03 | <Phazorx> | /home/ottdcoop/svn-devserver/src/ai/../variables.h:243: error: expected unqualified-id before '<<' token |
09:04 | <+glx> | conflict |
09:04 | <+glx> | search for <<<< and >>>> in this file |
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09:05 | <Phazorx> | $ cat src/variables.h | grep "<<<" |
09:05 | <Phazorx> | <<<<<<< .mine |
09:05 | <+glx> | that is a conflict marker |
09:05 | <Phazorx> | hmm |
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09:06 | <Phazorx> | and what do i do with that? |
09:06 | <+glx> | opent the file |
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09:07 | <+glx> | compare the lines in conflict and fix it |
09:08 | <Phazorx> | oh... some ancient patch i guess |
09:09 | <Phazorx> | thanks |
09:17 | <@Bjarni> | you will also get src/variables.h.* where * is rxxxx or mine... those should be deleted once you solved the conflict or svn will think that you still have it |
09:17 | <+glx> | just use "svn resolved src/variables.h" |
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09:27 | <Phazorx> | glx: there was a few patches i didnt know about applied |
09:27 | <+glx> | your problem ;) |
09:27 | <Phazorx> | i just cleaned them since theya re really outdated |
09:27 | <Phazorx> | yes |
09:28 | |-| | nStensen [noway@host-81-191-136-209.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd |
09:30 | <nStensen> | hi all, im trying to start a dedicated server on a machine running gentoo, but I get this in the log: "dbg: [NET] Server could not start network: bind() failed" |
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09:32 | <+glx> | nStensen: what did you set in server_bind_ip ? |
09:32 | <nStensen> | server_bind_ip = 91.189.124.72 |
09:32 | <nStensen> | server_port = 3979 |
09:33 | <+glx> | use 0.0.0.0 |
09:34 | <nStensen> | wont that make it bind to all IPs? |
09:34 | <+glx> | yes |
09:34 | <+glx> | you can use a local ip too |
09:34 | <nStensen> | hmm, it works now .. but I need it to bind to 91.189.124.72 |
09:34 | <nStensen> | ;) |
09:35 | <nStensen> | I want to run several openttd servers running on different IPs instead of different ports |
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09:35 | <+glx> | why do you need it to bind to the external one? |
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09:36 | <nStensen> | i'm not sure I follow .. could you define "external"? I have 18 IPs on this server, and I only openttd to listen on one of these atm |
09:39 | <gfldex> | nStensen: do you use any virtualization software on that machine? |
09:41 | <nStensen> | yes, it's running openvz (openttd is in a vps) .. but I dont see why it wouldnt work, because it works when running on a VPS running debian |
09:42 | <gfldex> | does openvz support linux capabilities? |
09:48 | <nStensen> | think I found it ;) |
09:48 | <nStensen> | after you found what's wrong with capabilities you can add missing capability to your VE with vzctl command. |
09:50 | <nStensen> | guess I need to add "NET_BIND_SERVICE" ? |
09:50 | <gfldex> | i dont know |
09:50 | <gfldex> | but you could try http://wari.mckay.com/~rm/bindhack.c.txt as well |
09:50 | <Ailure> | do we really need four diffrent newindustries threads in general? :) |
09:51 | |-| | Amix [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has joined #openttd |
09:51 | <Amix> | hey |
09:52 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Little2032.png |
09:52 | <Amix> | ;) |
09:52 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Little2033.png |
09:52 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/LittleBronnwell2036.png |
09:52 | <Amix> | ;) |
09:53 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Winninghall1976.png |
09:53 | <+glx> | Amix: no need to put one way on all tiles |
09:53 | <Amix> | trams are cooool |
09:53 | <Amix> | :) |
09:53 | <Amix> | glx: i know |
09:53 | <Amix> | but if i dont |
09:53 | <Amix> | the city will destroy the design |
09:53 | <Amix> | :) |
09:54 | <+glx> | disable city growth |
09:54 | <Amix> | it will make crosses which i dont want it to make ;=) |
09:54 | <Amix> | glx: ? i want the city to grow |
09:54 | <+glx> | ha ok |
09:55 | <nStensen> | ahh:) now it works :) |
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09:55 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Winninghall1977.png |
09:55 | <nStensen> | thanks for you help folks ;) |
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09:55 | <Amix> | thats tram with its own track allmost |
09:55 | <Amix> | ;D |
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10:13 | <Sionide> | neat |
10:13 | <Sionide> | but why? |
10:13 | <Sionide> | Amix, why not just use the existing road and lay the tram on top of it? |
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10:26 | <Ailure> | [16:54] <Amix> http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Winninghall1977.png |
10:27 | <Ailure> | this reminds me so about my Simcity 4 sessions := |
10:27 | <Ailure> | with one-way roads, avenues and highways |
10:28 | <Amix> | hehe |
10:28 | <Amix> | :) |
10:28 | <Ailure> | http://194.47.44.201/simcity4/Nuclear%20city-5%20Jul.,%202141191485463.png |
10:28 | <Ailure> | http://194.47.44.201/simcity4/Nuclear%20city-5%20Jul.,%202141191485384.png |
10:28 | <Amix> | Sionide: because tram isnt a good tram on roads |
10:28 | <Ailure> | I use them alot in Simcity4 |
10:28 | <Amix> | :) |
10:28 | <Ailure> | but hardly in openTTD |
10:28 | <hylje> | imma gonna open a bunch of tickets for sc4 features on ottd |
10:28 | <Ailure> | lol |
10:29 | <hylje> | Ailure: ottd revolves around trains and tracks, simcity around roads and vehicles |
10:29 | <Ailure> | some dosen't translate as well to ottd |
10:29 | <Ailure> | though |
10:29 | <Ailure> | well yeah |
10:29 | <Ailure> | obviously |
10:29 | <Amix> | Ailure: nice |
10:29 | <Ailure> | roads have no traffic other than trucks and buses |
10:29 | <Ailure> | in OTTD |
10:29 | <hylje> | ottd needs private traffic |
10:29 | <Ailure> | but in Simcity4 there's all kind of automobiles |
10:30 | <Ailure> | hm |
10:30 | <Ailure> | there's a lack of cars on thoose pictures |
10:30 | <Amix> | hehe |
10:30 | <Ailure> | probably becuse I paused the game right away and then zoomed in |
10:30 | <Amix> | i know |
10:30 | <Ailure> | there's usually tons of cars there |
10:30 | <Ailure> | it's high-traffic parts of my road network :P |
10:30 | <hylje> | how does one build arbitrary bridges on sc? |
10:30 | <Ailure> | mods |
10:31 | <Ailure> | the ones on the screenshot |
10:31 | <hylje> | yeh |
10:31 | <Ailure> | was built with the help of a networkaddonmod |
10:31 | <hylje> | do they really work? |
10:31 | <Ailure> | yes |
10:31 | <Ailure> | even in somewhat sucky u-drive-it mode |
10:31 | <hylje> | :o |
10:31 | <Amix> | Ailure: http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Gronningley1974.png |
10:31 | <Amix> | now i create this |
10:31 | <Amix> | ;) |
10:32 | <Ailure> | hah |
10:32 | <Ailure> | ...oh yeah there's a avenue with a tram track in the middle for that mod too |
10:32 | <hylje> | trams in my simcity? |
10:32 | <hylje> | what |
10:32 | <Ailure> | in this mod |
10:32 | <Ailure> | also called lightrail |
10:32 | <Ailure> | says lightrail/tram in the game :P |
10:33 | <hylje> | when i get around to my ttd clone |
10:33 | <hylje> | ill do that and go towards simcity when it comes to cities |
10:33 | <SpComb> | forget your TTD clone and svn co myottd :( |
10:33 | <hylje> | :< |
10:33 | <SpComb> | it's the new SpBot |
10:34 | <SpComb> | SpBot was out of #tycoon for a week before anyone noticed |
10:34 | <hylje> | :o |
10:34 | <SpComb> | or at least before anyone bothered to tell me |
10:34 | <hylje> | so what does myottd need |
10:34 | <hylje> | for development and features |
10:34 | <Amix> | Ailure: i am running openttd on morphos |
10:34 | <Amix> | so i dont have simcity4 here |
10:34 | <Amix> | ;) |
10:34 | <SpComb> | something along the lines of a feature-set compareable to autopilot |
10:35 | <SpComb> | and then other things as needed |
10:35 | <SpComb> | e.g. I got eis_os to create an XML-based API for GRF Crawler which I plan on using for some kind of NewGRF thing |
10:35 | <hylje> | well |
10:36 | <hylje> | svn: Client error in parsing arguments |
10:36 | <SpComb> | svn co svn://svn.martila.de/myottd/trunk |
10:36 | <Ailure> | [17:33] <Amix> Ailure: i am running openttd on morphos |
10:36 | <Ailure> | [17:33] <Amix> so i dont have simcity4 here |
10:36 | <Ailure> | [17:33] <Amix> ;) |
10:36 | <Ailure> | heh shame |
10:36 | <Ailure> | Simcity 4 is limited for Windows and any platform that Wine runs on |
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10:36 | <Ailure> | it runs faster in Wine than Windows according to most reports xD |
10:40 | <hylje> | SpComb: so what else do i need? |
10:40 | <SpComb> | marttila.de, that is |
10:40 | <hylje> | figured |
10:40 | <SpComb> | in terms of dependancies, now? |
10:40 | <hylje> | yes |
10:40 | <Amix> | Ailure: simcity4 exsists for osx |
10:40 | <Ailure> | I heard that version is rather quirky though |
10:40 | <Ailure> | with addons |
10:40 | <hylje> | mac ports of games fail when it comes to modding |
10:40 | <hylje> | in general |
10:40 | <Ailure> | well it works |
10:40 | <Ailure> | but any added buildings |
10:40 | <Ammller> | we have set up a NewIndustrie Server with PBI, if someone like to join: #openttdcoop.dev |
10:40 | <Ailure> | won't have nightlits working |
10:40 | <Ailure> | *nightlights |
10:40 | <hylje> | heh |
10:40 | <Ailure> | since the game have a day->night shift |
10:40 | <hylje> | ive played the game |
10:40 | <SpComb> | well, python, twisted, pylons/paster, sqlalchemy should get you quite far along |
10:40 | <hylje> | 20 MB of new packages |
10:40 | <hylje> | oh, just 2MB |
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--- | Log | closed Sat Oct 06 10:47:54 2007 |
--- | Log | opened Sat Oct 06 10:47:56 2007 |
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10:47 | |-| | Ekipa kanalu #openttd: Wszystkich: 96 |-| +op [5] |-| +voice [3] |-| normalnych [88] |
10:49 | |-| | Kanal #openttd zsynchronizowany w 92 sekundy |
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10:51 | |-| | Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: plaes, CIA-4, izhirahider, Phazorx, mikegrb, Tefad, Wolf01 |
10:51 | |-| | Netsplit over, joins: Wolf01 |
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10:55 | <Amix> | a nice game would be GTA:Norway |
10:55 | <Amix> | ;) |
10:56 | [~] | SpComb is now afk |
10:56 | <Ailure> | haha |
10:59 | <SpComb> | not actually |
11:00 | <SpComb> | hylje: oh, and postgresql as well, including psycopg2 and pypgsql (yes, both :P), I just commited a database dump as db_2.sql |
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11:00 | <SpComb> | we're still waiting for one player to join... |
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11:01 | <SpComb> | right |
11:01 | <hylje> | left |
11:04 | <hylje> | oh god these dependencies |
11:04 | <hylje> | now does this thing come with a server? |
11:05 | |-| | mikegrb_ Your nick is now mikegrb |
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11:12 | <Sacro> | rail_cmd.cpp doesn't appear in solution explorer |
11:13 | <hylje> | submit a patch |
11:13 | <Sacro> | no :p |
11:13 | [~] | Sacro prods glx |
11:13 | <+glx> | msvc? |
11:13 | <Sacro> | yep |
11:13 | <Sacro> | 441MB download D: |
11:14 | <+glx> | look in Landscape subsection |
11:15 | <Sacro> | so it is :) |
11:15 | <Sacro> | 23 mins on dx_sdk... |
11:15 | <Sacro> | twiddles thumbs |
11:16 | <Sacro> | and MSDNAA is down :( |
11:17 | <Sacro> | only 7 warnings |
11:17 | <Sacro> | not bad considering i don't have DXSDK or usefil.zip |
11:20 | <Sacro> | *starts ripping the signalling section to shreds* |
11:25 | <SpComb> | hylje: a server for what? |
11:26 | <SpComb> | and yes, it does have a fair amount of dependancies, it's really meant to be run centrally... |
11:26 | <hylje> | am i supposed to run apache to poke on it? |
11:26 | <SpComb> | paster serve --reload development.ini |
11:26 | <SpComb> | http://localhost:9160/ |
11:27 | <SpComb> | and daemon/main.py |
11:27 | <SpComb> | but the game continues --> |
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11:58 | <Sacro> | :o |
11:58 | <Sacro> | norudge :( |
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12:00 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ |
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12:12 | <Sacro> | glx: getting freetype errors :( |
12:12 | <+glx> | using useful.zip? |
12:12 | <Sacro> | err... |
12:12 | <Sacro> | no gnuwin32 |
12:12 | <+glx> | gnuwin32 libs are mingw ones |
12:13 | <Sacro> | hmmm |
12:13 | <Sacro> | and that probably won't work :p |
12:13 | <Sacro> | someone should remove the link to them from the wiki page |
12:13 | <+glx> | gcc can use .lib from msvc but the opposite fails ;) |
12:13 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/tramroutes.png |
12:13 | <Sacro> | nope |
12:13 | <Amix> | my tramroutes :) |
12:13 | <Sacro> | still 8 unresolved externals |
12:14 | <Sacro> | fontcache.obj |
12:14 | <+glx> | what are the missing symbols? |
12:15 | <Sacro> | __imp_@FT_{Done_Face@4, LOAD_CHAR@12, Init_FreeType@4, Select_Charmap@8, New_Face@16, Render_Glyph@8, Set_Pixel_Sizes@12} |
12:17 | <+glx> | with useful-1.2 ? |
12:19 | <Sacro> | yeah |
12:19 | <Sacro> | extracted include and lib |
12:19 | <+glx> | where? |
12:19 | <Sacro> | into a folder which i then pointed VS at |
12:20 | <+glx> | I don't know then |
12:22 | <Sacro> | do i need to compile anything for freetype |
12:22 | <Sacro> | i see a lsn |
12:22 | <Sacro> | *sln |
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12:26 | <Sacro> | glx: it works fine when you paste them into the VC folder :s |
12:26 | <+glx> | I have them in VC folder :) |
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12:33 | <SquireJames> | hello people |
12:34 | <SquireJames> | looking for a kind soul who can help me solve some of my compiling woes |
12:35 | <SquireJames> | I'm using BuildOTTD and I'm trying to add the routemarkers patch to the latest nightly, so I can Pikkas Industries and routemarkers |
12:35 | <SquireJames> | but, it just complains that the compile has failed, I can't seem to find any logs of why |
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12:44 | <SquireJames> | right, okay, no answer, okay go simpler. Firstly, does the latest nightly r11208 hve newhouses support |
12:44 | <+glx> | yes |
12:45 | <Sacro> | most people tend to use a proper compiler |
12:45 | <Ailure> | newhouses been in for a long long time now |
12:45 | <Ailure> | :) |
12:45 | <SquireJames> | Hmm, I wonder why TTRS is having trouble then |
12:45 | <SquireJames> | it seems to function, the new houses and roads appear, but in the newgrf menu it says disabled |
12:45 | <SquireJames> | and as soon as i click apply or try and add any new grf, it seems to realise that its disabled and the towns return to normal |
12:46 | <Sacro> | hmm |
12:46 | <Sacro> | i have a PPC2003 emulator :\ |
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12:47 | <Ammller> | SquireJames: just did a screen with newindustries: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/blog/2007/10/meaworth-transport-28th-jul-1957.png |
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12:48 | <toresbe> | heh |
12:48 | <toresbe> | I like how the mines are over the tunnel |
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12:48 | <Ailure> | bahaha |
12:49 | <Sacro> | oops :) |
12:49 | <SquireJames> | Whoops, i clicked the link and it logged me out |
12:49 | <Ammller> | yeah, hopefully, they don't dig more there |
12:49 | <Sacro> | Belugas: you around? |
12:49 | <SquireJames> | Could you perchance repost it? |
12:49 | <SquireJames> | and do we have any idea why TTRS is suddenly throwing a fit? |
12:49 | <Ammller> | http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/blog/2007/10/meaworth-transport-28th-jul-1957.png |
12:51 | <SquireJames> | I see from the screenie, you have TTRS working |
12:51 | <Desolator> | SquireJames |
12:52 | <SquireJames> | yes? |
12:52 | <Desolator> | I queried you |
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12:55 | <Sacro> | i need to find out how to convert blender to grf |
12:55 | <Sacro> | or ldraw to grf |
12:55 | |-| | Desolator [Desolator@86.126.36.149] has joined #openttd |
12:55 | <Sacro> | or maybe pov-ray to grf |
12:57 | [~] | Desolator slaps SquireJames around a bit with a large trout |
12:57 | <TrueBrain> | Sacro: good luck :) |
12:57 | <Sacro> | TrueBrain: why? |
12:58 | <Sacro> | i have all the rails done |
12:58 | <SquireJames> | sorry bck |
12:58 | <Sacro> | and the roads |
12:58 | <+glx> | Desolator: did you see my post in ChrisIN thread? |
12:59 | <Desolator> | no |
12:59 | <+glx> | your win9x build is not a win9x build |
12:59 | <Desolator> | blame that on MinGW |
12:59 | <+glx> | no you didn't configure correctly |
13:00 | <Desolator> | I followed the wiki article |
13:00 | <+glx> | it is not up to date |
13:00 | <Desolator> | ahh |
13:01 | <+glx> | you should do "configure --disable-unicode" |
13:01 | <Desolator> | ok, i'll compile againb |
13:03 | <Desolator> | btw what's CLI? |
13:03 | <Ailure> | command line interface |
13:03 | <Ailure> | compare it with GUI |
13:03 | <Sacro> | heh |
13:03 | <Desolator> | "or directly "make bundle_zip" (if you have zip CLI installed)" |
13:03 | <Ailure> | which is graphical user interface |
13:03 | <Sacro> | we got asked "What is a CLE" |
13:04 | <Desolator> | well glx, what do you mean there? |
13:04 | <TrueBrain> | that WinZip doesn't do it |
13:04 | <Sacro> | http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3Aecstatic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a hehe |
13:05 | <TrueBrain> | lol @ Sacro |
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13:05 | <Desolator> | TrueBrain: ok you confused me even more |
13:05 | <TrueBrain> | Desolator: WinZip == GUI |
13:05 | <TrueBrain> | zip.exe == CLI |
13:05 | <Desolator> | LMAO @ Sacro |
13:06 | <Desolator> | oh |
13:06 | |-| | Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-42-136.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
13:06 | <Sacro> | pkunzip! |
13:06 | <Desolator> | I guess I'll zip up it myself |
13:07 | <Desolator> | (using IzArc, who wants to pay for something that's worse than a freeware app?) |
13:07 | <Sacro> | windows users? |
13:07 | <Desolator> | yea |
13:07 | <Desolator> | and linux too |
13:08 | <Desolator> | (though I'm starting to kill Windoze & M$) |
13:10 | <Ailure> | http://194.47.44.201/openttd/newIndustries/Presworth%20Transport,%2024th%20Aug%201933.png :) |
13:10 | <Ailure> | I love the mess I wind up with sometimes |
13:10 | <Amix> | http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/Gronningley1986.png |
13:10 | <Amix> | :))) |
13:10 | <Amix> | growing now |
13:11 | <Ailure> | http://194.47.44.201/openttd/newIndustries/Presworth%20Transport,%2029th%20Jan%201929.png the way the steel mill works in PBI made things quite more challanging |
13:11 | <Ailure> | ah yeah |
13:11 | <Ailure> | that town form earlier |
13:12 | <Amix> | yea |
13:12 | <Amix> | :) |
13:14 | <SquireJames> | I have to say, all of Pikkas work really makes OTTD for me |
13:15 | <SquireJames> | UKRS, PBI, Brickchain, all brilliant and very British feeling |
13:16 | <Ailure> | they go together well with the rest of the graphics too :P |
13:16 | <SquireJames> | indeed |
13:16 | <SquireJames> | my only wish is that the roads on the industries could somehow be overidden with the TTRS roads |
13:16 | <SquireJames> | but i can overlook them :) hmm i wonder if i can override the roads on TTRS with the UK Roadset? |
13:17 | <Ailure> | heh I usually use TTRS |
13:17 | <Ailure> | but I skipped TTRS this game for some reason |
13:18 | <dihedral> | i want a newIndu game |
13:18 | <dihedral> | :-) |
13:18 | <SquireJames> | hmm no luck overriding, ah well |
13:19 | |-| | simon_ [~simon@awork119071.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd |
13:19 | <simon_> | hello punks |
13:19 | <simon_> | the music is blasting crazy here at Tsim Sha Tsui |
13:20 | <TrueBrain> | @kick simon_ bye |
13:20 | |-| | simon_ kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [bye] |
13:20 | |-| | Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-42-136.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
13:20 | |-| | simon_ [~simon@awork119071.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd |
13:20 | <SquireJames> | this may sound odd |
13:20 | <mcbane> | heh |
13:20 | <SquireJames> | but why kick him? Is he a troublemaker? |
13:20 | <simon_> | hmm, what was that for? |
13:20 | <dihedral> | how do i make use of newindustries ? |
13:20 | <mcbane> | never greet someone with hello punks. =D |
13:20 | |-| | Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-255-132.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd |
13:20 | <SquireJames> | dihedral, you will need some grf sets |
13:20 | <Desolator> | you download a nightly and use a newindustries grf |
13:20 | <simon_> | lol |
13:20 | <TrueBrain> | at least mcbane gets it |
13:21 | <dihedral> | thansk |
13:21 | <SquireJames> | either ECS, or if your a brit or like british things, go for PBI |
13:21 | |-| | toresbe [~toresbe@201.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
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13:21 | <SquireJames> | they may work together, i'm not sure if they cause some interesting conflictions |
13:21 | <simon_> | I got too many wifi networks here |
13:21 | <mcbane> | ecs is fun |
13:21 | <Ailure> | Probably try ECS after I played with PBI |
13:22 | <simon_> | I am in the main nightclub area of tsim sha tsui |
13:22 | <Desolator> | We need 0.6! |
13:22 | <simon_> | this place is awake all night |
13:22 | <Desolator> | so? |
13:22 | <mcbane> | but use low industries as there will be a lot on the map (high = colorful map) |
13:22 | <simon_> | the only time it is quiet is in between 6:30-9AM |
13:22 | <Desolator> | simon_: so? |
13:23 | <mcbane> | its 20:23 here =) |
13:23 | <simon_> | its 2:23AM here |
13:23 | <simon_> | and there is a traffic jam outside |
13:23 | <simon_> | through out the whole day there is not traffic jams |
13:24 | <simon_> | only after 1AM do they start |
13:24 | <simon_> | they end around 4AM |
13:24 | <Ailure> | [20:21] <mcbane> but use low industries as there will be a lot on the map (high = colorful map) |
13:24 | <simon_> | I got some labels I need to remove from boxes |
13:24 | <Ailure> | heh I forgot to do this for PBI, and ECS seems to have more industries |
13:24 | <simon_> | any one got any ideas? |
13:24 | <Ailure> | it got little cluttered around some towns |
13:25 | <Desolator> | what labels & what boxes? |
13:25 | <Ailure> | but the industries close down on their own after awhile so oh well :p |
13:25 | <simon_> | Desolator: cardboard boxes and paper labels |
13:25 | <Desolator> | good luck |
13:26 | <mcbane> | ailure: a lot more =P |
13:26 | <simon_> | Desolator: you don't know of any magic alcohol that will not ruin the box but get the paper off? |
13:27 | <simon_> | I am using a pocket knife to get under the paper and left it up but it is very slow and I poked a hole in the box once already |
13:27 | <Desolator> | nope |
13:29 | <Desolator> | glx: ok done |
13:29 | <Amix> | OTTD is so cool |
13:29 | <Amix> | i love it |
13:29 | <Amix> | :) |
13:29 | <TrueBrain> | we glad you do Amix :) |
13:30 | <Desolator> | We'd love it more if you could announce an estimated release date of 0.6 RC1 ;) |
13:30 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Desolator When It Is Done |
13:30 | |-| | Desolator kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [When It Is Done] |
13:30 | <TrueBrain> | damn, that felt good |
13:30 | |-| | Desolator [Desolator@86.126.36.149] has joined #openttd |
13:30 | <Desolator> | HEY! |
13:30 | <TrueBrain> | ;) |
13:31 | [~] | TrueBrain hugs Desolator |
13:31 | <Desolator> | I said *estimated*... |
13:31 | [~] | Desolator warns TrueBrain that he doesn't really love stupid kicks |
13:32 | <TrueBrain> | Desolator: it wasn't stupid, so that is a plus |
13:32 | <Desolator> | ... |
13:32 | <Desolator> | it was |
13:32 | <TrueBrain> | you are free to have your opinion :) |
13:32 | <simon_> | TrueBrain: come on... don't do that to people |
13:32 | <Prof_Frink> | Desolator: Between a minute and a century. |
13:32 | <simon_> | I know it is fun |
13:32 | <Desolator> | it would have been easier to type it directly and less annoying for me |
13:33 | <simon_> | but you miss out on the channel which gets annoying |
13:33 | <TrueBrain> | Desolator: but don't worry, it isn't personal: I kcik everyone asking for a release date, with that very same message |
13:33 | <Desolator> | Prof_Frink: kinda...long... |
13:33 | <TrueBrain> | I should add it to DorpsGek... |
13:33 | <Desolator> | LOL |
13:33 | <Amix> | also thank for morphos support :) as osnews person wrote. its something special with amigaos thats so different from other operating systems which is necessary to bring on into the future. |
13:33 | <TrueBrain> | Amix: you use MorphOS?!?!?! :P |
13:33 | <Amix> | yes |
13:33 | <Desolator> | never heard of it |
13:33 | <TrueBrain> | wow, that I experience that in my life... |
13:34 | <TrueBrain> | a person who really uses the MorphOS version... |
13:34 | <Amix> | ? |
13:34 | <Amix> | there are some |
13:34 | <Amix> | but not as active as me telling that |
13:34 | <TrueBrain> | Clearly :) |
13:34 | [~] | TrueBrain hugs Amix :) |
13:34 | <Amix> | ;) |
13:35 | <simon_> | I use much more than morphos |
13:37 | <TrueBrain> | Amix: does the nightly also still work on MorphOS? |
13:37 | <Amix> | yes |
13:37 | <TrueBrain> | amazing.. |
13:38 | <Amix> | TrueBrain: http://home.powertech.no/micbergs/OpenTTD/openttdmos.png |
13:38 | <Amix> | this is nightly with trams ;) |
13:38 | <Desolator> | TrueBrain, why did you left "mainstrea" dev? |
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13:38 | <TrueBrain> | Amix: cool :) |
13:38 | <Desolator> | *maindtream |
13:38 | <Desolator> | **mainstream |
13:38 | <TrueBrain> | Desolator: keep trying :p |
13:39 | <TrueBrain> | Desolator: and I did? I can't remember if I did ot nor did, I confuse myself :( |
13:39 | <Desolator> | well I barely see you commiting to SVN |
13:39 | |-| | Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01 |
13:40 | <Desolator> | btw, any dev on Windoze here? |
13:40 | |-| | toresbe [~toresbe@201.80-203-102.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd |
13:41 | <TrueBrain> | Desolator: last commit was just 21 days ago... didn't know you are degreded that fast in this community :p |
13:41 | <Desolator> | ... |
13:43 | |-| | Desolator [Desolator@86.126.36.149] has quit [Quit: out to do homework] |
13:44 | |-| | SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd |
13:45 | <Amix> | TrueBrain: i am using morphos, macosx, win2k and symbian daily |
13:45 | <Amix> | love all of them |
13:45 | <Amix> | openttd on mos and osx |
13:45 | <TrueBrain> | hehe :) Good choices ;) |
13:45 | <Amix> | win2k only at work |
13:45 | <Noldo> | I don't love this XP I'm forced to use |
13:46 | |-| | Greyscale [~Grey@host86-131-42-136.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
13:46 | <Amix> | if BeOS did well, BeOS could be a hero os :) |
13:48 | <@Bjarni> | maybe it is a hero OS |
13:48 | <TrueBrain> | now I need to remember my Steam password :( |
13:48 | <@Bjarni> | after all there are very few heroes and very few BeOS users |
13:49 | <@Bjarni> | TrueBrain: the key (or password if you like) is to add coal in an even load (not a pile in the middle) and you will do fine ;) |
13:52 | <Amix> | Bjarni: well.. BeOS had potential |
13:53 | <@Bjarni> | that's likely, but odds that it will get though today are... well not in the BeOS favour |
13:55 | <Amix> | its kinda ironic that the slowest oses survive |
13:56 | <toresbe> | no it isn't... they're harder to shut down |
13:56 | <Amix> | lol |
13:56 | <toresbe> | "oh, screw it, I'll just stick with Windows..." |
13:56 | <Noldo> | the OS race has never been about technical superiority |
13:57 | <Amix> | correct |
13:57 | |-| | Rafagd [~kvirc@200.196.39.5] has joined #openttd |
13:57 | <Amix> | its the gamers that have pushed hardware producers |
13:57 | <Noldo> | but I wonder how much resources does it take to "keep an OS alive" |
13:57 | <TrueBrain> | MorphOS is still alive |
13:57 | <Amix> | Noldo: you need a community, a trusted company etc |
13:58 | <Amix> | community can survive without company though |
13:58 | <Amix> | but its hard |
13:58 | <@Bjarni> | you don't need a trusted company |
13:58 | <@Bjarni> | look at some linux distributions |
13:58 | <Amix> | well, linux is open sourced |
13:58 | <Amix> | i thought we talked about commercial oses |
13:58 | <Amix> | ;p |
13:58 | <Sacro> | osen |
13:59 | <Rafagd> | anyone has a link to the video of that dude who drives a box? o.o |
14:00 | <Amix> | TrueBrain: MorphOS is alive because there are bunch of hardcore Amiga fanatics which loves it. Its only alive because of its community thru forum, irc and the web. I bet that without the net, AmigaOS, MorphOS and all minor oses would die much quicker. So you could say that Internet is pretty much a hero for small oses :) |
14:00 | <TrueBrain> | yup :) |
14:01 | <Amix> | just look at www.amigaworld.net |
14:01 | <@Bjarni> | I don't think OpenTTD would be anything without the internet either |
14:01 | <Amix> | how many hates Amiga Inc. |
14:01 | <Amix> | but they stick to their oses, because thats what others have |
14:02 | <mcbane> | i hate them for beeing sold to stupid ppls. |
14:03 | <Amix> | mcbane: http://www.amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7468 |
14:03 | <Amix> | read this |
14:03 | <Amix> | its for amiga community |
14:03 | <Amix> | and then you read the comments |
14:03 | <Amix> | from the CEO of Amiga Inc. |
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14:08 | <Amix> | updated the system |
14:08 | <Amix> | brb |
14:08 | |-| | Amix [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has quit [Quit: Shake it, .. sjokoladedrikk ;D] |
14:10 | |-| | Amix [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has joined #openttd |
14:14 | <TrueBrain> | \ |
14:17 | <Amix> | yes? |
14:17 | <Amix> | :) |
14:19 | <TrueBrain> | Today sucks |
14:19 | <TrueBrain> | I tried like 10 things |
14:19 | <TrueBrain> | and they all failed |
14:19 | <TrueBrain> | grr |
14:20 | <TrueBrain> | I wanted to convert a x264 to wmv3(VC1), but it failed to do what it was supposed to do (Windows Media Encoder) |
14:20 | <TrueBrain> | I am trying to install Steam, but both Cedega as Wine don't feel like it |
14:20 | <TrueBrain> | I am trying to disassemble a DOS application and recompile it |
14:20 | <TrueBrain> | but it doesn't let me |
14:20 | <TrueBrain> | grrr |
14:32 | <huma> | use the force |
14:33 | <TrueBrain> | yeah! |
14:33 | <Rubidium> | TrueBrain: could ofcourse break the negative thingy... |
14:34 | <Rubidium> | you could try to get kicked from #openttd ;) |
14:34 | <TrueBrain> | @kick TrueBrain be kicked |
14:34 | |-| | TrueBrain kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [be kicked] |
14:34 | |-| | TrueBrain [truelight@81.171.98.110] has joined #openttd |
14:34 | <TrueBrain> | and, deos it help? |
14:34 | <Rubidium> | don't know, the negative spiral has at least been broken ;) |
14:34 | <TrueBrain> | :) |
14:34 | <Rubidium> | now you've tried 11 things and not all failed |
14:35 | <SmatZ> | TrueBrain: what DOS app are you trying to disassemble? |
14:35 | <TrueBrain> | Populous |
14:35 | <SmatZ> | :) |
14:36 | <@Bjarni> | hehe |
14:37 | <@Bjarni> | TrueBrain: why would you disassemble populous and then recompile it? |
14:37 | <Rafagd> | hm... |
14:37 | <@Bjarni> | are you gaining anything that DosBox can't do? |
14:37 | <TrueBrain> | Bjarni: because I want to |
14:37 | <Rafagd> | where you've find it? |
14:37 | <@Bjarni> | fair enough |
14:37 | <@Bjarni> | that's reason enough |
14:37 | <TrueBrain> | Rafagd: abandonware of course |
14:37 | <Rafagd> | i've only seen that game 1 time |
14:38 | <Rafagd> | i've ever wanted to play that game =( |
14:38 | <@Bjarni> | it rocks |
14:39 | <@Bjarni> | I still have it for my Amiga 500 |
14:39 | <SmatZ> | Rafagd: http://abandonia.com/genre.php?search=populous |
14:39 | <@Bjarni> | that is, if the disk still works |
14:41 | <Sacro> | :o |
14:41 | <Sacro> | another 500 owner |
14:41 | <@Bjarni> | networking with Amiga 500 was kind of cool, but not really useful |
14:41 | <@Bjarni> | I can't remember anything good MP networking games |
14:42 | <@Bjarni> | stuntcar racer worked on network, but besides that |
14:44 | <TrueBrain> | grr, stupid cedega |
14:52 | |-| | De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
14:52 | <simon_> | what new features have been added to the nightly in the past month and half that I have been away partying? |
14:53 | <+glx> | newindustries |
14:53 | |-| | De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd |
14:53 | <simon_> | any info about what that is? |
14:53 | <simon_> | wiki page? |
14:53 | <Rubidium> | hmm, glx must be talking to someone I'm ignoring |
14:53 | <+glx> | lol |
14:54 | <Rubidium> | or that is at least the most logical explanation of his sudden "newindustries" |
14:58 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
14:58 | <@Bjarni> | the question is who |
14:58 | <@Bjarni> | because I also only see the "newindustries" line |
14:58 | <simon_> | Rubidium: you still remember who I am! |
14:58 | <simon_> | It has been more than a month! |
14:58 | <+glx> | he can't see what you say |
14:59 | <simon_> | I am back in Hong Kong now |
14:59 | <@Bjarni> | one can only imagine this conversation based on what glx says |
14:59 | <simon_> | glx: yes he can... he just pretends he can't. |
14:59 | <@Bjarni> | ok, cleared the ignore list |
14:59 | <@Bjarni> | what's going on? |
14:59 | <simon_> | nothing |
14:59 | <@Bjarni> | ok |
15:00 | <@Bjarni> | !logs |
15:00 | <SpComb> | Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) |
15:00 | [~] | Bjarni wonders why simon_ was on ignore |
15:00 | <TrueBrain> | Bjarni: I suggest you put him on ignore again |
15:00 | <TrueBrain> | really, a good idea |
15:01 | <simon_> | Bjarni: I don't know... I haven't been here for months |
15:01 | <simon_> | maybe someone else uses this nick |
15:01 | <@Bjarni> | oh now I remember you |
15:01 | [~] | Bjarni reenables ignore |
15:02 | <@Bjarni> | we are being nice to him, right :P |
15:02 | <simon_> | wtf... |
15:03 | <simon_> | you never ignored me all those months ago when we were friends |
15:03 | <simon_> | you people are cruel |
15:04 | <hylje> | :< |
15:04 | <hylje> | bjarni is |
15:04 | <@Bjarni> | is what? |
15:04 | <Sacro> | how would i go from a rending to a grf :( |
15:04 | <TrueBrain> | Bjarni: just: you are |
15:05 | <@Bjarni> | fair enough |
15:05 | <@Bjarni> | I am something :D |
15:05 | <@Bjarni> | I just don't know what it is |
15:05 | [~] | hylje snickers |
15:06 | <@Bjarni> | I bet simon_ said something stupid again |
15:06 | [~] | Bjarni disables ignore |
15:06 | <simon_> | I have said nothing |
15:06 | <simon_> | I am trying to work |
15:07 | <TrueBrain> | Bjarni: please spear us the details of your ignore-list |
15:07 | <@Bjarni> | right |
15:07 | |-| | simon_ [~simon@awork119071.netvigator.com] has left #openttd [] |
15:07 | <@Bjarni> | simon_: why did I put you on ignore ages ago? |
15:07 | <hylje> | TrueBrain, s/ear/are/ |
15:07 | <@Bjarni> | I guess he won't answer me |
15:07 | <+glx> | oh he's gone :( |
15:07 | <@Bjarni> | looks like it |
15:08 | <@Bjarni> | PARTY TIME |
15:09 | <hylje> | i'm reading pbf and seeing the sillyness here |
15:09 | <hylje> | what a great night |
15:10 | <@Bjarni> | what is pbf? |
15:10 | <@Bjarni> | some sort of mirror plane of pdf? |
15:11 | <SmatZ> | Bjarni: http://pbfcomics.com/ |
15:11 | <Amix> | i see there are demonstrations in Denmark again Bjarni |
15:11 | <Amix> | ;) |
15:11 | <hylje> | ungdomshuset |
15:11 | <Amix> | it will never end |
15:11 | <@Bjarni> | I'm at home |
15:11 | <@Bjarni> | I'm not there |
15:12 | <@Bjarni> | and I never will be |
15:12 | <@Bjarni> | last I heard on the news was that they arrested 300 people |
15:14 | <@Bjarni> | and a political party encouraged the bullies to move on even when told to stop |
15:14 | <@Bjarni> | so it will be interesting to see what happens next |
15:14 | <@Bjarni> | political parties aren't allowed to tell people to ignore direct orders from the police |
15:16 | <toresbe> | idiots... |
15:19 | |-| | Grey [~Greyscale@host86-131-42-136.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] |
15:20 | <@Bjarni> | you said that |
15:20 | <@Bjarni> | I didn't |
15:20 | <@Bjarni> | I just thought it ;) |
15:24 | <Amix> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkSh6KP7igs&mode=related&search= |
15:24 | <Amix> | this is so cool :))) |
15:24 | <Amix> | ASTRA promovideo from 1990 |
15:24 | <Amix> | love the music ;) |
15:28 | <Sacro> | hmm |
15:28 | <Sacro> | we can do ottd models with lightwave? |
15:33 | <huma> | yes, make pretty models |
15:34 | <Sacro> | i can do em in ldraw |
15:34 | <Sacro> | just no way of rendering them into the game |
15:34 | <Sacro> | cos i dunno how to use blender, povray or lightwave |
15:35 | <huma> | eh.. 90s |
15:35 | <huma> | i want time machine |
15:35 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
15:36 | <@Bjarni> | back then you could build your own decoder without any problems |
15:36 | <@Bjarni> | now those bastards use digital encryption so a simple setup of capacitors and resistors can't fix signal anymore |
15:37 | <@Bjarni> | I once saw schematics for a circuit that could break any encoding (at that time) |
15:38 | <@Bjarni> | it had a variable resistor and all you had to do was to turn it until it cleared up the signal |
15:38 | <@Bjarni> | and then you hit the frequency they used to scramble the signal and you could watch all the stuff you like |
15:38 | <@Bjarni> | go figure why they changed that system :P |
15:38 | <huma> | i wish i was good at this stuff |
15:39 | <@Bjarni> | why? |
15:39 | <@Bjarni> | it's a thing of the past |
15:39 | <huma> | sounds fascinating |
15:39 | <@Bjarni> | well, that decoder is |
15:39 | <TrueBrain> | wow, djgpp seems to be able to cmopile for dos :) |
15:39 | <TrueBrain> | let's see.. |
15:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | <Bjarni> simon_: why did I put you on ignore ages ago? <- i have logs of "ages ago", are you really that interested? |
15:40 | <huma> | Bjarni: so you never touch your soldering iron now? |
15:40 | <@Bjarni> | Eddi|zuHause2: I remember now.. he is the guy, who claimed to be in Hong Kong using an .au domain and he didn't know shit about Hong Kong |
15:41 | <@Bjarni> | and he said all sorts of other silly stuff like that |
15:41 | <@Bjarni> | didn't know shit about Hong Kong either |
15:41 | <huma> | em.. you repeat yourself :) |
15:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, i remembered from his line "<simon_> I am back in Hong Kong now" |
15:41 | <@Bjarni> | huma: you do and you can make stuff that works... you just can't use it to break the modern ways of encoding pay channels |
15:42 | <huma> | maybe he was using the aussie proxy? :) |
15:42 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> em.. you repeat yourself :) <-- that's on purpose. I use repetition to make sure that you remember what I try to tell you |
15:42 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: no, now you go to the next best forum and get a key there |
15:42 | <huma> | Bjarni: well, at least you can still mock up useful or funny things |
15:43 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> maybe he was using the aussie proxy? :) <-- no... he wasn't. He wasn't using is brain either |
15:43 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | to use with your player plugin |
15:43 | <huma> | Bjarni: ok, just don't use recursion :) |
15:43 | <@Bjarni> | huh |
15:43 | <@Bjarni> | player plugin? |
15:44 | <huma> | Bjarni: is there a good book on soldering simple stuff? |
15:44 | <@Bjarni> | I guess so |
15:44 | <huma> | Bjarni: guess it's never late to start |
15:44 | <@Bjarni> | but I have no need to read it... you see, I already know how to do this ;) |
15:44 | <huma> | Bjarni: you could be like a.. inspiration :) |
15:45 | [~] | Bjarni is an engineer in the field of electronics |
15:45 | <huma> | Bjarni: i suppose you haven't known it all your life :) |
15:45 | <huma> | Bjarni: recommend me some book :) |
15:45 | <@Bjarni> | hmm |
15:45 | <@Bjarni> | that's tricky |
15:46 | <@Bjarni> | because... |
15:46 | <@Bjarni> | what do you want to make? :) |
15:46 | <huma> | yes, it is when you know too much about the field :) |
15:46 | <huma> | well.. something like this for a start.. wait, let me find the link.. |
15:47 | <@Bjarni> | if you want to say make a device to check if all windows are closed in your house, then you wouldn't need to know about how to handle frequency filtering |
15:47 | <huma> | http://mr-lee-catcam.de/pe_catcam.htm |
15:47 | <huma> | meow :) |
15:47 | <@Bjarni> | that is, unless you decide to actually use a certain frequency to avoid problems with static electricity and 50 Hz noise |
15:48 | |-| | svippery changed nick to svip |
15:48 | <@Bjarni> | LOL |
15:51 | <huma> | i think he's gone to make one for his cat :) |
15:51 | <@Bjarni> | but... |
15:51 | <@Bjarni> | I don't have a cat |
15:52 | <@Bjarni> | you need a really quick shutter speed if this should work |
15:52 | <huma> | a dog will do |
15:52 | <huma> | or.. yourself :) |
15:52 | <@Bjarni> | you see, it's kind of hard to tell the cat to stand still while taking pictures |
15:52 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> or.. yourself :) <-- why would I want a whole lot of pictures of IRC? |
15:52 | <huma> | i'm not sure this tiny camera has any means to control shutter speed :) |
15:52 | <huma> | haha |
15:52 | <huma> | yes, indeed |
15:53 | <huma> | you could call it a scrotcam though :) |
15:56 | <huma> | this cam makes good pictures: http://mr-lee-catcam.de/pe_catcam1.htm |
15:56 | <@Bjarni> | this camera is perfect |
15:56 | <@Bjarni> | really really great |
15:56 | <huma> | some even resemble loko - like this one: http://mr-lee-catcam.de/PICS/CCTRIP1_03.JPG :) |
15:57 | <huma> | er.. lomo |
15:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | on trip 2, there's a "on the run" picture |
15:58 | <huma> | neat |
15:58 | <@Bjarni> | I can place it under the frame and record bogie movements while driving and it's not a big loss if the camera is lost |
15:58 | <huma> | yea, try it :) |
15:58 | <@Bjarni> | but it's too dangerous to place yourself at that location while driving ;) |
16:01 | |-| | SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
16:06 | <@Bjarni> | Big moment no. 1: attach the collar with the camera to the cat. The reaction was not very happy but finally accepted. Reality check passed :-) |
16:06 | <@Bjarni> | :D |
16:08 | |-| | nStensen [noway@host-81-191-136-209.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
16:10 | <huma> | yea, the guy is funny :) |
16:11 | <Ammller> | Cannot find user-level thread for LWP 32465: generic error |
16:11 | <Ammller> | thats the output of my dbg |
16:11 | <Ammller> | just continue? |
16:14 | |-| | Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-147-168-145.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
16:14 | <@Bjarni> | dammit, can't find any local dealer of VistaQuest |
16:16 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11219 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (199 files in 17 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r11035:11218. |
16:16 | <huma> | Bjarni: try ebay |
16:17 | <@Bjarni> | nahh, I guess I will make somebody in Germany or UK send it to me |
16:17 | <@Bjarni> | I just need to find some fool... err... naive person with a visa card |
16:22 | <ln-> | why don't you have one? |
16:23 | <@Bjarni> | I could |
16:23 | <@Bjarni> | but I'm too cheap to pay for getting one |
16:23 | <@Bjarni> | you see, I really rarely need it and they charge you an arm and a leg for just having it |
16:24 | <@Bjarni> | buying anything on the net inside the country allows me to use my debit card, which is almost free of fees (unlike visa) |
16:24 | <ln-> | but how do you pay on itunes? |
16:25 | <@Bjarni> | also using a local card gives me better protection against fraught, both in the sense that it can only be used in Denmark and in the law |
16:25 | <@Bjarni> | <ln-> but how do you pay on itunes? <-- I don't use iTune store. I rarely buy music anyway (which results in me listening to the same music again and again) |
16:25 | <huma> | ln-: there's soulseek for that :) |
16:26 | <@Bjarni> | soulseek? |
16:26 | <huma> | idd |
16:26 | <@Bjarni> | is that some p2p? |
16:26 | <huma> | yep |
16:26 | <@Bjarni> | I don't use p2p to get music either |
16:26 | <huma> | music oriented |
16:27 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
16:27 | <@Bjarni> | it takes me say 10 minutes to get to a real music store and then I will avoid all that DMA crap |
16:27 | |-| | Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] |
16:27 | <@Bjarni> | ok, maybe it can take 15 minutes, but still |
16:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you mean DRM? |
16:27 | <@Bjarni> | err |
16:27 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
16:28 | <ln-> | Bjarni: just for comparison; i pay 20€ per year for a Visa. |
16:28 | <@Bjarni> | whatever |
16:28 | <@Bjarni> | 20... I think that's a bit cheaper than what I can get |
16:29 | <@Bjarni> | but if I only use it say twice a year, it will be an extra €10 on each purchase and if the purchases are like €16 each, then it's a fee that really matters |
16:30 | <ln-> | with 20€ the per-month limit for purchases is 1000€. |
16:30 | |-| | Tefad_ changed nick to Tefad |
16:30 | <ln-> | Bjarni: don't worry, when you have one, you just happen to order all fancy stuff from amazon.com and others a lot more frequently. |
16:30 | <@Bjarni> | the limit isn't 1000€ if you don't have 1000€ :P |
16:31 | <@Bjarni> | I better not buy amazon.com or anything else that fancy |
16:31 | <@Bjarni> | you see I don't have a job, so whenever I spend money I have to consider how to get more :( |
16:32 | <Rubidium> | the idea of a credit card is that you pay afterwards, so you don't need money at the moment of actually paying |
16:32 | <@Bjarni> | newsflash: if I don't have the money afterwards, then the problem is still there |
16:33 | <ln-> | Bjarni: wrong, the limit _is_ 1000€ even if i don't have that much. |
16:33 | <@Bjarni> | besides they add fees for using money you don't have |
16:33 | <Rubidium> | Bjarni: true-ish |
16:33 | |-| | Rafagd [~kvirc@200.196.39.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
16:33 | <Rubidium> | you can delay all paying with about a month |
16:33 | <@Bjarni> | wouldn't do me any good |
16:33 | <Rubidium> | effectively leaving you with the "pay" of month |
16:33 | <Rubidium> | *a month |
16:34 | <@Bjarni> | I would still need to find the cash somehow |
16:34 | <Rubidium> | get a proper job for a few hours in the week |
16:34 | <ln-> | Bjarni: you can withdraw cash from an ATM with the credit card. |
16:34 | <ln-> | problem solved. |
16:34 | <@Bjarni> | guys, you are missing the point |
16:35 | <@Bjarni> | if I don't have a visa card, then I don't have to spend money on it and I don't NEED the stuff it offers |
16:36 | <ln-> | same applies for money. |
16:36 | <@Bjarni> | if I don't have [money], then I don't have to spend money on it and I don't NEED the stuff it offers? |
16:36 | <@Bjarni> | I guess I don't really need money as it is now |
16:37 | <@Bjarni> | but it does leave me without buying new stuff |
16:38 | |-| | Amix [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
16:40 | <ln-> | when are you switching to euros? |
16:40 | <@Bjarni> | NEVER |
16:41 | <@Bjarni> | we have a financial benefit from not using euros |
16:41 | <Rubidium> | he's still using pebbles |
16:42 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: Swede, or Brit? I'm guessing Swede... |
16:42 | <@Bjarni> | also technically our constitution prevents us from giving other countries the option of making certain financial decisions like the interest and inflation of our currency |
16:42 | <toresbe> | swede. |
16:42 | <ln-> | Bjarni: it's not about the financial benefit, it's about the treaties you have already signed. |
16:42 | <ln-> | toresbe: don't insult him. |
16:42 | <@Bjarni> | we didn't sign anything telling us to use euro |
16:43 | <toresbe> | Sweden is in no way committed to switching to the Euro. |
16:43 | <@Bjarni> | we added an exception to the treaty telling that the euro part (and 3 other parts) don't include Denmark |
16:43 | <ln-> | Bjarni: the finnish constitution stated that the monetary unit in finland is markka, and how much did that matter? |
16:43 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: Oh, Danish? |
16:43 | |-| | mikl_ [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd |
16:43 | <toresbe> | ln-: Constitutions can change. |
16:43 | <toresbe> | Here in Norway, ours just did, quite significantly |
16:44 | <@Bjarni> | besides it can be rather hard to find a qualified majority of the politicians to enable it when the population is against it |
16:44 | <@Bjarni> | qualified is like 5/6 |
16:45 | <@Bjarni> | toresbe: what new stupid law did you add? |
16:45 | <gfldex> | you mean those 2 other contries that found a nice lumb of oil in north sea? |
16:45 | <gfldex> | no wonder why they dont want to be part of euro land |
16:45 | <Sacro> | ooh the north sea! |
16:45 | <gfldex> | oil prices are made in $ |
16:45 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: didn't add anything. A deprecated law was removed. |
16:45 | <@Bjarni> | which one? |
16:46 | <toresbe> | it's a technicality referring to the separation of two houses of parliament that had been equivalent for near a century. |
16:46 | <@Bjarni> | <gfldex> oil prices are made in $ <-- I'm not talking about oil prices, though our oil reserves aren't any bad at the current prices |
16:47 | <gfldex> | you use nearly as much as you drig from the ground and it's getting less already |
16:47 | <gfldex> | you will have the euro very soonish :) |
16:47 | <SquireJames> | Question: |
16:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | in Hessen, they are afraid to try to remove the death penalty from the constitution |
16:48 | <@Bjarni> | it's more like if it goes bad in Germany, then Germany will have to use their financial tools to recover (the euro prohibits most of those tools, leaving in this case Germany in a poor situation). Being outside of the euro, the big countries to the south will not pull us down |
16:48 | <toresbe> | basically, the party representatives would decide on a law in one room, then cross the hallway and put the law into the Norwegian Law in a different "House" which hasn't been a different house since 1866 |
16:48 | <SquireJames> | Can you have multiple track waypoints in OpenTTD |
16:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | because of the possibility that the attempt might fail |
16:48 | <@Bjarni> | well, not as much. Germany is still a great export market |
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16:48 | <ln-> | Eddi|zuHause2: hessen has death penalty? |
16:48 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: The entire point of the EU was to fuse the European governments to such an extent that another European war was impossible. |
16:48 | <@Bjarni> | DKK is a stronger currency than EUR |
16:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ln-: federal law overrides that |
16:48 | <SquireJames> | at the moment i am using stations with non-stop, but it would be easier if i could have a multi-track waypoint |
16:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but technically, it's still in their constitution |
16:49 | <ln-> | btw, the king of finland was the prince of hessen. |
16:49 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: that's a relatively absurd claim. The EUR is far stronger by force of inertia and versatility of commerce. |
16:49 | <@Bjarni> | <toresbe> Bjarni: The entire point of the EU was to fuse the European governments to such an extent that another European war was impossible. <-- I think this is an odd argument. Everywhere else somebody tried to do that it ended in civil war |
16:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, and the king of england was the duke of hannover |
16:49 | <gfldex> | a stronger currency is bad if you are an export oriented country, what germany is |
16:50 | <gfldex> | our economy dont really want a strong currency |
16:50 | <SquireJames> | heeelooo? |
16:50 | <toresbe> | Hell, Germany is a larger exporter than China. |
16:50 | <gfldex> | yes you can have more then one SquireJames |
16:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | in the 17th/18th century was very common for people to have titles in multiple countries |
16:50 | <@Bjarni> | <toresbe> Bjarni: that's a relatively absurd claim. The EUR is far stronger by force of inertia and versatility of commerce. <-- stronger in the sense of being more stable and presumed stable in the future |
16:50 | <toresbe> | yes |
16:50 | <ln-> | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Karl_von_Hessen#K.C3.B6nig_von_Finnland |
16:50 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: it's working quite well. The EU is a decent idea, and the world could do with Europe as a superpower. |
16:51 | <SpComb> | There's Amixii in the channel |
16:51 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's why in the early days, it was called "King in Prussia", instead of "King of Prussia" |
16:51 | <@Bjarni> | the main problem is that EU is used for absurd ideas like making a law that prohibits selling cucumbers if they are too curved |
16:51 | <gfldex> | we dont want to be a super power. it would mean we would have to fuck up other ppl |
16:51 | <gfldex> | that is not our intent |
16:52 | <SquireJames> | How do I make one gfldex |
16:52 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | because the guy had titles in a dozen more countries |
16:52 | <gfldex> | you should have a button for creating waypoints in the track toolbar |
16:52 | <@Bjarni> | the problem is that the EU structure isn't stable |
16:52 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: consumer interest laws are a Good Thing, even though their minutae are debatable. |
16:52 | <@Bjarni> | specially not after adding even more countries |
16:52 | <SquireJames> | Everytime I place a waypoint next to another it becomes a new waypoint, regardless as to whether there join stations is on |
16:52 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | e.g he was "Kurfürst in Brandenburg" |
16:52 | <gfldex> | it seams to work out quite well Bjarni |
16:53 | <SquireJames> | What I am after is making a waypoint go across multiple tracks |
16:53 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: We Norwegians are very happy about Poland being added. We are starved for a workforce. |
16:53 | <gfldex> | the problems of low price markets in the east solved itself |
16:53 | <gfldex> | they got the same prices and payments as we do now |
16:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | they then agglomerated more and more territories through titles |
16:53 | <@Bjarni> | <toresbe> Bjarni: consumer interest laws are a Good Thing, even though their minutae are debatable. <-- didn't help us at all. In fact if leaves people in Denmark in a bit worse position if something breaks after say 8 months and you want warranty to fix it |
16:53 | <gfldex> | i think you cant do that SquireJames |
16:54 | <toresbe> | gfldex: the hell they do |
16:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (including east prussia, which was a very outer territory) |
16:54 | <SquireJames> | ah, well okays, i'll stick to my non-stop station method then |
16:54 | <toresbe> | gfldex: which is why we can hire construction workers for pennies to the building here in Norway |
16:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only much later the called the whole country prussia |
16:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | then it was changed to "King of Prussia" |
16:54 | <@Bjarni> | <gfldex> it seams to work out quite well Bjarni <-- not really... whenever something important comes up, then they can't agree |
16:55 | <gfldex> | that was that constitution problem with poland and that was a press problem. that does not apply to day by day business |
16:55 | <gfldex> | hot air doenst count even in the EU :) |
16:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_I._(Preußen) |
16:56 | <gfldex> | toresbe: that's true but the money is leaving your country and get's exchanged into their currency and thus your whole economy get's a los |
16:56 | <@Bjarni> | btw EU is trying to force Denmark to change a law that says that only people who worked in Denmark can get a retirement paid by the government in Denmark. EU wants all citizens to be equal so all retired people can move to Denmark and get a pension from the government even if they never paid any taxes in Denmark |
16:57 | <gfldex> | Eddi, may it be that wikipedia is your start page in mozilla? :-> |
16:57 | <toresbe> | gfldex: not really |
16:57 | <huma> | how about localized town styles in openttd? like italian, french, swedish, etc? |
16:57 | <@Bjarni> | naturally we object because all countries would break from such a condition and go bankrupt and then EU will fine us for not listening |
16:57 | <toresbe> | gfldex: the money we are paying them is going toward lowering property prices (because we simply cannot find construction workers enough) |
16:57 | <+glx> | huma: building style? |
16:57 | <huma> | yes |
16:57 | <+glx> | make a newgrf :) |
16:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | gfldex: why would i do either of those things? (wikipedia as startpage, or use mozilla) |
16:58 | <huma> | is there any? |
16:58 | <toresbe> | property prices for commerce is a major problem in Oslo, and there are tons of constructions underway. |
16:58 | <toresbe> | we have the money, but not the builders :) |
16:58 | <gfldex> | Eddi|zuHause2: to be able to post even more wikipedia links? |
16:58 | <@Bjarni> | toresbe: we have the same issue. Poland has the same issue, xxx has the same issue |
16:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i posted exactly one wikipedia link today... |
16:58 | <@Bjarni> | I don't see how Poland joining EU helped preventing this case |
16:59 | <huma> | glx: ? |
16:59 | <gfldex> | you are below your rate then. shame on you! |
16:59 | <SquireJames> | If you ask me, we brits have the right idea, I just wish we were less influenced by the US |
16:59 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: it helped because otherwise it would not be feasible for the Polacks to enter Norway to work. |
16:59 | <toresbe> | the leaking of money into Poland isn't a problem in the long term, as the European economies fuse ever closer. |
16:59 | <SquireJames> | but with Brown as PM now, maybe we will be, Blair was so far up GW Bush's backside you couldn't tell where one began and the other ended |
17:00 | <huma> | glx: found :) |
17:01 | <@Bjarni> | <toresbe> the leaking of money into Poland isn't a problem in the long term, as the European economies fuse ever closer. <-- this is never going to work. ALL financial experts claims that EU is not built on solid financial ground. In fact it's bound to fail, but the politicians moves on anyway and for some reason the media doesn't really investigate why the financial experts warns about this |
17:02 | <toresbe> | "ALL financial experts" is so biased it barely warrants a response. |
17:03 | <gfldex> | if you got a lot forein workes they are going to exchange into their currency you create (artificial) need for your own currency. that means relative price to other currency goes up. that means it gets more expensive to buy foreign currency what you need to import stuff. ATM that's not a problem because you can keep it in balance with selling oil. But that will change. |
17:03 | <@Bjarni> | <toresbe> "ALL financial experts" is so biased it barely warrants a response. <-- well, prove me wrong then :) |
17:03 | <toresbe> | No. Do you really think that the EU would even begin to happen if as you say, everyone with a clue about finance opposed it? |
17:03 | <@Bjarni> | and I mean a real expert, not just a self proclaimed expert |
17:04 | <gfldex> | Bjarni: they dont do worry much because it works for the US since decades |
17:04 | <toresbe> | In fact, when it comes to political parties, the more traditionally financially oriented the parties become, the stronger they favour EU membership, in most cases. |
17:04 | <toresbe> | Of course, in Norway it's a no-brainer: Joining EU would be truly disasterous. |
17:04 | <toresbe> | for the economy, and for the environment. |
17:05 | <huma> | politics is boring.. |
17:05 | [~] | huma yawns |
17:05 | <toresbe> | It is in the EUs short-term interest that oil and gas prices be low. The interests of Norway, and the environment, are the opposite. |
17:05 | <@Bjarni> | the US has problems as well due to this. They are transmitting a whole lot of money between the states in order not to bankrupt states and close most jobs in them |
17:05 | <toresbe> | huma: I find it to be truly fascinating. |
17:05 | <huma> | someone has to :) |
17:05 | <toresbe> | Bjarni: not so. The US system is idiotic for entirely different reasons. |
17:05 | <@Bjarni> | also the US has a fundamental difference. It allows bigger difference between the states than EU will allow between the countries |
17:06 | <gfldex> | the US is in trouble because their currency is not covered anymore. It wasn't with gold and it isnt with economics growth |
17:06 | <gfldex> | but they dont care because so many other contries have so much $s that they simply dont know where to put them |
17:06 | <gfldex> | so they end up in the US |
17:07 | <gfldex> | in the end they will let their currency crash and make anybody else a long nose |
17:07 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> politics is boring.. <-- idiot :P |
17:07 | <huma> | Bjarni: you're biased :) |
17:08 | <gfldex> | being biased is what politics is all about |
17:08 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: truelight * r11220 /trunk/Makefile.in: -Fix r11217: not all gmakes allow "" in ifeq (go figure) |
17:08 | <huma> | that's why it's boring :) |
17:08 | <@Bjarni> | idiot: word originates from ancient Greek and means a man, who do not pay interest in politics |
17:08 | [~] | huma googles |
17:08 | |-| | FlowaPowa [~Flowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa] |
17:08 | [~] | Sacro is fed up |
17:08 | <@Bjarni> | so I will claim by rights to call huma an idiot if he claims politics to be boring |
17:09 | <Sacro> | politics are boring |
17:09 | <Sacro> | from the latin "poly" meaning many |
17:09 | <Sacro> | and "tics" meaning blood sucking leeches |
17:09 | <huma> | "Idiot is a word derived from the Greek ???????, idi?t?s ("person lacking professional skill," "a private citizen," "individual")" |
17:09 | <huma> | told you, biased :) |
17:09 | <@Bjarni> | interesting |
17:10 | <gfldex> | you got that wrong Bjarni. Idiots where not allowed to vote or getting elected. What put them at the same level with women and foreigners. What is a bit mean. |
17:10 | <huma> | etymology is fascinating though |
17:10 | <@Bjarni> | I read the other thing... |
17:10 | <@Bjarni> | I wonder if the book got it wrong |
17:11 | <@Bjarni> | but if a person had no rights to vote, he was likely not very interested in politics, at least not as interested as the voters |
17:11 | <huma> | or you did :) |
17:11 | <@Bjarni> | no I didn't |
17:11 | <@Bjarni> | it was pretty clear |
17:11 | <@Bjarni> | not to mention the teacher said the same thing |
17:11 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | huma: your client is broken |
17:12 | <@Bjarni> | anyway |
17:12 | <huma> | gfldex: from that point of view it's funny how feminism and idiotism turned out |
17:12 | <huma> | Eddi|zuHause2: huh? |
17:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | huma: more specifically, your utf8 characters are replaced by '?' |
17:12 | <Sacro> | facebook is good for stalking |
17:12 | <huma> | oh.. |
17:13 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> gfldex: from that point of view it's funny how feminism and idiotism turned out <-- yeah... the US idiotists even elected one of their own as president |
17:13 | |-| | Rubidium_ [rubidium@rbijker.net] has joined #openttd |
17:13 | <huma> | damn, you got me into it after all! :) |
17:13 | <gfldex> | do you call religious ppl idiots nowadays? |
17:13 | <@Bjarni> | that depends |
17:13 | <@Bjarni> | on the religion |
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17:13 | |-| | Rubidium [~rubidium@rubidium.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] |
17:14 | |-| | Rubidium_ changed nick to Rubidium |
17:14 | <Sacro> | you stupid danish person |
17:14 | <huma> | i try to not label anyone |
17:14 | <gfldex> | with what kind of religion would you be cool with? |
17:14 | <Sacro> | *coughs* not muslim |
17:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but you do know that the majority of the gene pool in america is from poor immigrants who were often low peasants in their homecountry |
17:14 | <huma> | Sacro: :) |
17:14 | <@Bjarni> | Sacro: I didn't say anything about what religion I referred to |
17:15 | <huma> | Eddi|zuHause2: how about the australian gene pool? :) |
17:15 | <@Bjarni> | in fact I was thinking about Jehovah's witnesses and stuff like that |
17:15 | <gfldex> | like the ppl from Hessen that got sold to fight for england? |
17:15 | <Sacro> | System.Console.WriteLine("Bored"); |
17:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it was only in the mid 19th century when lots of highly decorated scientists went there |
17:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (usually jewish people expelled from germany) |
17:15 | <huma> | c# attack! |
17:16 | <gfldex> | that came later Eddi |
17:16 | <@Bjarni> | oh Sacro is bored |
17:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | er, i mean the 20th century |
17:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 19xx |
17:16 | <@Bjarni> | I will upload a pic to prevent him from getting even more bored |
17:16 | <@Bjarni> | one sec |
17:16 | <gfldex> | and most ppl left europe because their religion got them at trouble at home |
17:16 | <huma> | Bjarni: i told you, politics is.. :) |
17:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's why the two politically important groups in america are idiots and jews |
17:16 | <gfldex> | that's at least true for germany and england |
17:17 | [~] | huma waits for a nsfw picture from Bjarni |
17:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | actually, in germany, the religion thing was fought out |
17:17 | <huma> | i hope the latter will come to power next term :) |
17:18 | <@Bjarni> | wtf |
17:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 30 years war, 1618-1648 |
17:18 | <@Bjarni> | there are two pictures on my camera that I don't recall taking |
17:18 | <gfldex> | that you declare the war to be over after 30 years does not mean that you agree with each other |
17:18 | <huma> | Bjarni: you're getting old :) |
17:18 | <gfldex> | it just means you are out of ammo |
17:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | in the end, neither side won, and the country was totally devastated |
17:19 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> Bjarni: you're getting old :) <-- I'm more thinking like "who took my camera while I was elsewhere" |
17:19 | <huma> | what cam is that? |
17:19 | <gfldex> | a lot land switched hands and preussen got a good head start |
17:19 | <gfldex> | wasnt all the bad in the end |
17:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | also, a pretty large group of german immigrants were soldiers, who were forced to fight on the english side in the independence war |
17:19 | <@Bjarni> | I presume asking the person in the picture would solve this :) |
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17:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | gfldex: yeah, the father of the guy in the wikipedia link was a major agitator in the "Westfälischer Frieden", he got quite a lot of land through diplomacy that way |
17:22 | <@Bjarni> | Sacro: http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/kystbanen.jpg <-- look at real life simsig and drool :D |
17:23 | <@Bjarni> | I took this picture earlier this week |
17:23 | <Sacro> | :o nice |
17:24 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | they use Windows?!? |
17:24 | <@Bjarni> | I didn't really figure out why they prefer to sit in the dark. When I asked they replied that they just want to do so |
17:24 | |-| | KouDy [user@85.207.64.178] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] |
17:24 | <@Bjarni> | <Eddi|zuHause2> they use Windows?!? <-- it sure looks like it. Makes you wonder why more than 80% of the delays are caused by signal issues |
17:24 | <@Bjarni> | I think that's delays more than 3 or 5 minutes |
17:25 | <Sacro> | hheh |
17:25 | <Sacro> | rebooting |
17:25 | <@Bjarni> | a train being delayed 1 or 2 minutes in departure due to a child carriage or something is not included in those statistics |
17:25 | <gfldex> | the invention of LCD displays is the salvation of such work places i bet |
17:26 | <gfldex> | think of that in terms of CRTs. what would be 1kW heating for each work place |
17:27 | |-| | Amix [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has joined #openttd |
17:27 | <@Bjarni> | actually I was once in an EMU and two guys went from the cab to the middle of the train, opened a closet like device and pressed a few buttons. The lights and all sounds died and then they pressed a few more buttons and everything started to come back. One of them then said "now it will be ready in 3 minutes" |
17:27 | <@Bjarni> | they really rebooted the train o_O |
17:28 | <gfldex> | in some regional trains in germany you can see voltage displays of the train as a passanger |
17:28 | <gfldex> | if you had the right key you even could switch the train off :) |
17:28 | <@Bjarni> | I have seen voltage gauges and pressure gauges in passengers cars... it's not like it's odd |
17:28 | |-| | Amix [Michal@cm-84.208.152.166.chello.no] has quit [] |
17:29 | <@Bjarni> | I once saw some settings for a car (I think it's scrapped now). It was behind a glass cover so the staff could see the setup without opening, but it also meant that everybody else could see it |
17:29 | <@Bjarni> | it had interesting switches, like turning taillights on and off |
17:30 | <@Bjarni> | switching between steam and electrical heating |
17:30 | <@Bjarni> | turn the indoor lights on and off |
17:30 | <@Bjarni> | stuff like that |
17:30 | <@Bjarni> | I don't think they maintained the steam part of it anymore though |
17:31 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: glx * r11221 /branches/noai/ (118 files in 10 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r11145:11220 |
17:31 | <gfldex> | that's why they dont use steam engines in the winter anymore :) |
17:32 | <@Bjarni> | the diesel engines used to have a boiler to produce steam to heat up the cars |
17:32 | <@Bjarni> | I think the last "normal" train using this system in Denmark drove it's last trip in 1989 |
17:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | most german diesel engines were equipped with electrical heating |
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17:33 | <gfldex> | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Bahnhof-Hasserode.jpg |
17:33 | <gfldex> | that one is still going with 2 steam trains in the middle of germany |
17:33 | <@Bjarni> | the issue is not to produce the electricity. It was that when DSB moved from steam to diesel (starting in 1954) they had a whole lot of cars that had steam heating only |
17:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's narrow gauge :p |
17:33 | <gfldex> | it narrow track tho |
17:34 | <@Bjarni> | looks like the Harzen guys |
17:34 | <gfldex> | that Harzquerbahn Eddi |
17:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i know where hasserode is :p |
17:34 | <gfldex> | you ever used that one? |
17:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only the beer tastes crap :p |
17:34 | <@Bjarni> | they have narrow gauge tracks all over that funny mountain thingie |
17:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, my mother is from that region |
17:35 | <@Bjarni> | those guys master a special skill |
17:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and my grandparents still live there |
17:35 | <gfldex> | i went there as a child a few times |
17:35 | <gfldex> | lovely place but the steam engine is not as funny as one may think |
17:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but it is a while ago since i actually used it |
17:35 | <gfldex> | you are breathing smoke when it's moving slowly |
17:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the last time i can remember was around 1989-1990 |
17:36 | <@Bjarni> | whenever they make wheelslip, they add sand to stop the wheels from spinning really fast. The wheels are then slowed to the correct RPM, but since the pistons are at high speed, they are likely to crack and they produce a breakdown :s |
17:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | when they opened the Brocken for the public |
17:36 | <@Bjarni> | I don't know why they don't just reduce steam until it catches the rails again (like the rest of us) |
17:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it didn't drive up there yet, so we walked from schierke to the peak |
17:37 | <@Bjarni> | it really is the only way to stop wheelslip on a steam locomotive |
17:37 | <gfldex> | that's a good walk |
17:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, it is ;) |
17:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it was winter, but not a hard one |
17:38 | <gfldex> | i grow up in Leipzig, so they send me to that place to change the color of my lungs from black to something more healthy |
17:38 | <@Bjarni> | hehe... I think this is an interesting channel. One guy posts an image and the two other active guys in the channel can tell where it's from :D |
17:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | not like the 1988/89 winter, which we spent in neuhaus |
17:39 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | with like 2m snow in one night |
17:39 | <@Bjarni> | gfldex: they sent you to the steam locomotives to ensure that your lungs didn't turn black? |
17:39 | <gfldex> | that's how polluted my home town was |
17:40 | [~] | Bjarni notes not to go to Leipzig |
17:40 | <gfldex> | if you dig in your nose what color do you get out of it? |
17:40 | <@Bjarni> | that depends |
17:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: it has way improved since they closed down all the industries |
17:40 | <@Bjarni> | if I have been on the railroad, then black |
17:40 | <@Bjarni> | well, sometimes |
17:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i mean literally _all_ the industries |
17:40 | <@Bjarni> | specially if I have been on top of the enigne |
17:40 | <gfldex> | my bogeys where all black in that time |
17:41 | <gfldex> | because anybody was heating with coal |
17:41 | <gfldex> | that crappy stuff we digged out of the ground nearby |
17:41 | <@Bjarni> | that brown coal from Eastern Germany? |
17:41 | <@Bjarni> | or black coal from Poland/Ruhr? |
17:41 | <gfldex> | yes |
17:41 | <huma> | eh.. still the same |
17:41 | <@Bjarni> | first or latter? |
17:42 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: leipzig is in east germany, and when he says "nearby"... |
17:42 | <gfldex> | the brown one with that nice level of sulfur in it |
17:42 | <@Bjarni> | ahh |
17:42 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | actually, leipzig is not far away from here... |
17:42 | <@Bjarni> | sulfur isn't bad when it comes to creating black smoke... all the other impurities in the coal are though |
17:42 | <Vikthor> | Eddi|zuHause2: You say it was bad in Leipzig, but it was even worse on the other side of Erzgebirge |
17:43 | <gfldex> | in Leipig it depends where the wind came from |
17:43 | <gfldex> | so we had good and bad days. other places where not so lucky |
17:43 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Vikthor: that may be, but tschechia has much lower unemployment rates than east germany |
17:43 | <@Bjarni> | we could stop a whole lot of pollution if Germany would stop using their poor coal in the powerplants |
17:44 | <@Bjarni> | switching to coal from Ruhr would actually improve conditions |
17:44 | <gfldex> | we dont use it anymore |
17:44 | <@Bjarni> | and power output |
17:44 | <@Bjarni> | you finally got rid of it? |
17:44 | <gfldex> | the mines are nearly empty anyway |
17:44 | <gfldex> | we would have to open new mines and remove a few cities |
17:44 | <@Bjarni> | when did you stop using it? |
17:44 | <Vikthor> | Eddi|zuHause2: You know not only we had our brown coal-powerplants, due to prevailing winds we have been getting your pollution |
17:45 | |-| | mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] |
17:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's funny, near Bitterfeld they wanted to flood a "Tagebau" [= open mine], it was projected to be filled in 10 years |
17:45 | <gfldex> | we stopped in the end of the '90s |
17:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | then there came the big flood |
17:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and it filled up in 5 days |
17:46 | <gfldex> | there are 3 new sees near leipzig. they where not there 10 years ago |
17:46 | <gfldex> | that flood was indeed not planned :) |
17:46 | <Vikthor> | You should see the landscape around Most, its the same |
17:46 | <@Bjarni> | strip mining is bad for the environment and actually dangerous even after the mining stops |
17:47 | <gfldex> | but if those who felt victim would have listened to their grandpas it would not have hit them that hard |
17:47 | <gfldex> | the older ppl knew why they didnt build houses there for ages |
17:47 | <gfldex> | it's bad for ground water levels Bjarni |
17:48 | <gfldex> | but if you stop the pumps at gets better real quick |
17:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, the housing business boomed in the past ~15 years |
17:48 | <gfldex> | the parts of Leipzig that are close to that 3 sees even got problems now |
17:48 | <gfldex> | some basements are getting quite wet |
17:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | of course there come along greedy guys who buy cheap land, not considering the reasons why it's so cheap |
17:49 | <@Bjarni> | DSB found a nice empty spot near the tracks and built a depot to prepare the EMUs for service... then they figured out why it was vacant. They had problems making a stable foundation (really soft) and they have to use a pump at all times or they will have 50 cm of water on the floor |
17:49 | <@Bjarni> | there are certain places where it's just not meant to build anything |
17:49 | <gfldex> | like the subway in newyork? :) |
17:49 | <@Bjarni> | <gfldex> it's bad for ground water levels Bjarni <-- that too |
17:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | new york is funny, after 50cm of digging, all you find is rock :p |
17:50 | <@Bjarni> | during the war Denmark did some strip mining for brown coal as well. Now the area is sealed off because it's dangerous and it's full of lakes |
17:51 | <gfldex> | luckyly we dont got that problem in germany |
17:51 | <gfldex> | the coal was compareable close the surface |
17:51 | <@Bjarni> | there is a small museum there on one of the relatively safe spots, though they have signs everywhere telling people not to leave the trails |
17:51 | |-| | Progman [~progman@p57A1D5C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
17:52 | <@Bjarni> | one of the lakes (at least the one they told about) makes a chemical reaction with something underneath so it's an acid lake without anything living in it |
17:52 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there are still more areas to be flooded here |
17:52 | <@Bjarni> | too strong acid for just being pure carbon acid |
17:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | like one "Tagebau" west of Merseburg |
17:53 | <@Bjarni> | it had a pretty colour though |
17:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's an area which was not affected by the big flood |
17:53 | <gfldex> | where do you live Eddi? |
17:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i live west of Halle |
17:54 | <gfldex> | is halle a ghost town allready? |
17:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | not really ;) |
17:54 | <Vikthor> | Bjarni: Here(Well not exactly here, around Teplice) they flooded one mine and now it is open for swimming |
17:54 | <@Bjarni> | without any acid burns? |
17:55 | <gfldex> | a friend of mine is teacher in leipzig and he got friends in halle. |
17:55 | <gfldex> | teachers aswell and they say there is not much to do for them |
17:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | don't believe _all_ stories on www.hoelle-saale.de.tt |
17:55 | <gfldex> | quite scary |
17:55 | <@Bjarni> | well, I wouldn't go swimming in any of the lakes I saw. The reason is that the ground in the area was basically sand, so all the shorelines were really unstable |
17:56 | <Vikthor> | I am not sure but there should be no acid if you have not been refilling the mine with ash from the coal |
17:56 | <TrueBrain> | does the extension .tt exist? |
17:56 | <Vikthor> | and this mine was closed for rother long time |
17:56 | <TrueBrain> | we should get www.open.tt :p |
17:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | apparently :p |
17:57 | <gfldex> | .tt is trinidat and tabogo |
17:57 | <gfldex> | so they are basicly voodoo domains :D |
17:57 | <huma> | open.tt is available, btw |
17:57 | <@Bjarni> | it's called Trinidad and Tobago |
17:58 | <@Bjarni> | yeah, we should get that one :D |
17:58 | <huma> | glx could do that |
17:58 | <@Bjarni> | why glx? |
17:58 | <@Bjarni> | why not TrueBrain? |
17:58 | <huma> | he has a cool nick |
17:58 | [~] | glx slaps huma |
17:58 | <huma> | :) |
17:59 | <@Bjarni> | that's the rest reason if they ever was one :D |
17:59 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | getting such a top level domain might get tricky if you do not own a server in that country |
17:59 | <+glx> | not a valid reason :) |
17:59 | <TrueBrain> | $500 for 2 years |
17:59 | <TrueBrain> | lol! |
17:59 | <@Bjarni> | o_O |
17:59 | <TrueBrain> | wait, even worse |
17:59 | <TrueBrain> | $1000 for 2 years |
17:59 | <TrueBrain> | else you need to take open.co.tt |
17:59 | <TrueBrain> | but that spoils it :p |
17:59 | <@Bjarni> | I think we will stick to openttd.org |
17:59 | <huma> | TrueBrain: 1000? |
18:00 | <huma> | where did you get that? |
18:00 | <TrueBrain> | http://www.nic.tt/fee.html |
18:00 | <TrueBrain> | Registration Fee, FOREIGN, 2nd level domain |
18:00 | <huma> | damn |
18:00 | <gfldex> | if you got a .tv domain you are in trouble btw |
18:00 | |-| | svip [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
18:00 | <huma> | it's a ripoff! |
18:00 | <gfldex> | because you need a state to get a top level domain |
18:01 | <gfldex> | and they will be gone in 50 years |
18:01 | |-| | svip [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd |
18:01 | <huma> | a state? |
18:01 | <TrueBrain> | I once requested if I could have my own TLD :p |
18:01 | <TrueBrain> | I got a very nice response :) |
18:01 | <gfldex> | at least for that kind of TLD |
18:01 | <@Bjarni> | the domain called sex.tv was once for rent for $1.000.000/year |
18:01 | <@Bjarni> | all of a sudden it contained a porn site |
18:02 | <@Bjarni> | <huma> a state? <-- it's a whole island in the Pacific and it's a country of it's own |
18:02 | <gfldex> | it is a island for now ... |
18:02 | <@Bjarni> | they are like 25k people and some US company offered them $4 million a year for the rights to all .tv domains |
18:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | .tv belongs to the country of tuvalu |
18:03 | |-| | Jaywizzle [James@ip68-100-236-126.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #openttd |
18:03 | <gfldex> | the first country to get disbanded because they will run out of land in history |
18:03 | <@Bjarni> | 4 million a year is a lot for 25k people in a poor country |
18:03 | <huma> | their whole economy is based on cybersquatting? |
18:03 | <@Bjarni> | looks like it |
18:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 4 million? they can get better deals than that |
18:03 | <Jaywizzle> | Ok this may be a horribly stupid question, but i was playing a randomly generated game and its 2020 and i see all the aval trains but i cant build any, how do i gain access to build them?? |
18:03 | <@Bjarni> | most likely |
18:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | selling all domains individually |
18:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Jaywizzle: build a depot, click on it |
18:04 | <@Bjarni> | yeah, but it looked like they wanted to sell them all for a steady income without any work |
18:04 | <huma> | i wonder how many of those 25k have internet access |
18:04 | <TrueBrain> | I am so bored... what to do... |
18:04 | <@Bjarni> | then the buyer sells them individually |
18:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Jaywizzle: you cannot build vehicles from the vehicle list |
18:04 | |-| | Osai [~Osai@pD9EB75A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
18:04 | <@Bjarni> | TrueBrain: code something really cool |
18:04 | <huma> | TrueBrain: yes please :) |
18:05 | <@Bjarni> | TrueBrain: like an air condition controller |
18:05 | <@Bjarni> | that would be cool |
18:05 | <gfldex> | if they sell them by themself they need the infrastructure to run a registry |
18:05 | <TrueBrain> | Bjarni: I already made a server for EaB in Stackless Python |
18:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: exactly, and make a gazillion of extra money |
18:05 | <TrueBrain> | it was really cool |
18:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | for very little work |
18:05 | <gfldex> | that way they simply rent the right to have a registry out |
18:05 | <Jaywizzle> | yup did so i have plenty of trains but i want the new engines i dont see them aval on my list at depots |
18:05 | <huma> | for what? |
18:05 | <huma> | eab? |
18:05 | <TrueBrain> | Earth and Beyond |
18:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Jaywizzle: then build a depot of the proper railtype |
18:05 | <TrueBrain> | a cool game that closed down some years ago |
18:06 | <Jaywizzle> | i see them as being aval and they should be bwecause of the year, but when i click a depot and build a new train all i have aval is two engines |
18:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | electric/monorail/maglev |
18:06 | <Jaywizzle> | mmm kay |
18:06 | <huma> | why stackless? |
18:06 | <@Bjarni> | huh |
18:06 | [~] | Bjarni was just attacked by a bug |
18:07 | <@Bjarni> | it flew right into my face |
18:07 | <TrueBrain> | huma: proof of concept more than anything else, but also because it is the right language for that job |
18:07 | <TrueBrain> | as example: EVE: Online switched to it too, for a good reason |
18:07 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: here you have sex tv :p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIkPPCMW0Fg |
18:07 | <@Bjarni> | I guess it's payback for all the bug hunting and bug killing I have done |
18:07 | <huma> | python is sweet |
18:07 | <gfldex> | you need stackless python because of the stack limitations on windows |
18:07 | <gfldex> | that's why eve is using it too |
18:07 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: euh, like: wrong! |
18:07 | <TrueBrain> | stack limitations is not related to Windows, to start |
18:08 | <TrueBrain> | second, it is a 'cheap' way for threading, the reason EVE uses it |
18:08 | <huma> | haha! stacks flame war! :) |
18:08 | <gfldex> | true but they are more ugly on windows then anywhere else |
18:08 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: it is not related to Windows |
18:08 | <@Bjarni> | Eddi|zuHause2: hehe |
18:08 | <TrueBrain> | C uses stacks |
18:08 | <TrueBrain> | that is why in C, and all languages based on C, you have a stack limit |
18:08 | <TrueBrain> | Python is made in C |
18:08 | <gfldex> | i know, you got problems with the stack anywhere if you have lots and lots of small functions that call each other |
18:08 | <TrueBrain> | 2 functions |
18:09 | <TrueBrain> | and we call it recursion |
18:09 | <gfldex> | C got (at least in theory) an endless stack |
18:09 | <TrueBrain> | no, it does not |
18:09 | <gfldex> | the heap starts to grow from one end and the stack at the other |
18:09 | <TrueBrain> | in theory even, the stack is the size of the memory |
18:09 | <@Bjarni> | I found another youtube video today. Some candid camera in Japanese trains and they filmed the reaction when famous people started telling stories (or something) though the speaker system |
18:09 | <TrueBrain> | @op |
18:09 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek |
18:09 | |-| | [TrueBrain] changed the topic of #openttd: 0.5.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | YouTube link == Ban |
18:10 | <@TrueBrain> | @deop |
18:10 | |-| | mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek |
18:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | err... |
18:10 | <huma> | bummer |
18:10 | <@Bjarni> | it was in Japanese and with Japanese subtitles, so I think it could be really funny, but I didn't get it :( |
18:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | we tried that with bash links previously, it did not exactly work out :p |
18:10 | <@Bjarni> | TrueBrain: why? |
18:10 | <huma> | Bjarni: hint: use tinyurl :) |
18:10 | <TrueBrain> | Bjarni: for the same reason as bash-links == ban |
18:11 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: anyway, the stackless part of stackless python isn't real, and not the main advantage |
18:11 | <@Bjarni> | no, that's the result |
18:11 | <TrueBrain> | the microthreads are |
18:11 | <@Bjarni> | I asked for the reason |
18:11 | <huma> | TrueBrain doesn't have flash to watch videos :) |
18:11 | <TrueBrain> | and I refered you to the reason which states that bash links result in a ban |
18:11 | <TrueBrain> | huma: ssstttt |
18:11 | <huma> | :) |
18:11 | <@Bjarni> | :P |
18:11 | <@Bjarni> | TrueBrain: the link was bad anyway |
18:12 | <gfldex> | CCP seam not to be that happy then them tho |
18:12 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: in fact, there is a microthread lib for C, but it is rather ugly :s |
18:12 | <@Bjarni> | it's some gay looking guy in leather talking German |
18:12 | <@Bjarni> | didn't bother to finish watching it |
18:12 | <huma> | what's cool is when flash has a link to skip it inside the flash :) |
18:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's actually a german comedy show |
18:12 | <TrueBrain> | downside of Python, it is rather memory inefficient for jobs like MMO servers |
18:12 | <huma> | or even better - has a link to download flash :) |
18:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and moreover, a crossover between two comedy shows :p |
18:13 | <TrueBrain> | and after working for 2 weeks in python now, I have to say: I don't like Python-syntax |
18:13 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | although it is pretty old |
18:13 | <huma> | 2 years? as the main language? |
18:13 | <gfldex> | i read the syntax of python and i decided to stick with perl when it comes to scripting |
18:13 | <TrueBrain> | python is good for scripting |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | really good |
18:14 | <gfldex> | javascript (1.7 and later) is a true beauty tho |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | not so 'hackish' as Perl |
18:14 | <gfldex> | rather slow sadly |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | but... the mistakes I make 2 weeks ago, I still do |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | which annoys me |
18:14 | <gfldex> | i like the hackish part in perl :) |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | as it means that the language sucks |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | $@, $_, $^ |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | I hate it |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | @var, $var |
18:14 | <TrueBrain> | grr |
18:15 | <TrueBrain> | but then again, implicit decleration sucks too |
18:15 | <TrueBrain> | in Python: buf = len("abc") |
18:15 | <huma> | my $TrueBrain :) |
18:15 | <TrueBrain> | len = 2 |
18:15 | <TrueBrain> | buf = len("abc") |
18:15 | <TrueBrain> | 3rd line fails |
18:15 | <gfldex> | $_ together with destructuring arrays is quite nice |
18:15 | <TrueBrain> | not the 2nd, the 3rd |
18:15 | <gfldex> | and you solve the problem with variable parameter count in function quite elegant |
18:15 | <gfldex> | because it's the default :) |
18:16 | <TrueBrain> | my biggest problem with Python are the error messages |
18:16 | <TrueBrain> | gcc is unclear in its messages |
18:16 | <TrueBrain> | but Python tops it |
18:16 | <gfldex> | and they can be like a mile long :) |
18:16 | <TrueBrain> | that too |
18:16 | <TrueBrain> | bah, it is tempting to start playing EVE: Online |
18:16 | <TrueBrain> | lucky for me cedega doesn't work here at the moment :p |
18:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Bjarni: the most funny part is, the original "sex tv" sketches were part of the "Wochenschau", which was broadcast on Sat.1, but the guy walking in greets the "Pro 7 viewers" (knowing that he would later broadcast this sketch on his show on the other channel) |
18:17 | <gfldex> | i stopped playing eve. did it for more then 4 years |
18:17 | <TrueBrain> | last time I played it (2 years ago or so), I found it boring |
18:17 | <@Bjarni> | Eddi|zuHause2: heh |
18:17 | <gfldex> | then we moved shit worth 35B from lower tash to deep 0.0 and nobody really nobody could cause us a problem |
18:17 | <TrueBrain> | the reason I started to work on the EaB server :p |
18:17 | <gfldex> | and that's plain wrong |
18:18 | <TrueBrain> | but now I have a nice stackless python server for EaB, but several packages take 80ms to build |
18:18 | <TrueBrain> | which is just too long |
18:18 | <TrueBrain> | and that is because I can't allocate N bytes of memory, and roll a struct over it |
18:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | if you browse through youtube, you can probably find either more "sex tv" sketches, or more "rabigramm" sketches |
18:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | like the rabigramm with the klitschko brothers... that one is great :p |
18:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (that was in the show "Wetten, daß..?!" (on ZDF)) |
18:20 | <gfldex> | are discussions about youtube links allowed? |
18:20 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: Eddi|zuHause2 knows he is pushing it ;) |
18:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | probably not :p |
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18:22 | <gfldex> | what exactly do you need the microthreads for in that server TrueBrain? |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | anyway, I now wonder if I should try to increase the speed of my server, but... I think I should pick an other language and try again :s |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: simple: every connection goes in its own thread |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | if you do this via, say, pthread |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | there is a BIG overhead |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | and a max of, what, 1200? |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | (most systems drop out when you try to create 1000+ threads) |
18:23 | <gfldex> | linux should be fine with that |
18:23 | <TrueBrain> | microthreads aren't 'real' threads, as in that they don't push and pop the stack |
18:24 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: no, even linux drops out at 1200 |
18:24 | <TrueBrain> | Windows sooner |
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18:24 | <gfldex> | you have to iterate of those connections, right? |
18:24 | <TrueBrain> | not via this way :) |
18:25 | <gfldex> | so you end up with polluting the CPU cache quite a lot |
18:25 | <TrueBrain> | http://members.verizon.net/olsongt/stackless/why_stackless.html <- this tells most things :) |
18:25 | <TrueBrain> | Anyway, you can also put timers in threads like this |
18:25 | <TrueBrain> | so you say: wait(3) |
18:25 | <TrueBrain> | and it waits 3 seconds |
18:26 | <TrueBrain> | without holding the rest of the application |
18:26 | <TrueBrain> | 1 thing you really have to keep in mind, is that all local variables are gone when it returns |
18:26 | <TrueBrain> | but that is just a matter of coding correctly :) |
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18:28 | <TrueBrain> | wow, CCP helped with a lot of improvements in Python I didn't know about.. |
18:28 | <TrueBrain> | most of them are exactly what I need :) |
18:28 | <gfldex> | if you would have to serve that many connections in c++ you would try to handle all connections in one process |
18:28 | <blathijs> | CCP? |
18:28 | <TrueBrain> | blathijs: EVE: Online creators |
18:29 | <blathijs> | ah |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: yes, which overcomplicates things |
18:29 | <gfldex> | depends on your implementation |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: simple example: I read 4 bytes of the network, indicating a length of the packet |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | with microthreads I just do: while True: socket.read(). tasklett.suspend() |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | or what ever |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | till the length is read |
18:29 | <gfldex> | stackless p. has to be written in some language and my bet is it's c++ |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | in your case, it would be much more complicated |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | and in fact: slower |
18:29 | <gfldex> | you will type yourself bloody fingers tho |
18:29 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: it is a small patch over Python, so it is C |
18:30 | <Sacro> | TrueBrain: how did you get my lego train into ottd? |
18:30 | <TrueBrain> | Sacro: via Blender |
18:30 | <TrueBrain> | "ordered dictionary" |
18:30 | <TrueBrain> | haha, I love how CCP things :) |
18:30 | <gfldex> | you could use trolltechs Qt |
18:31 | <gfldex> | very easy and nice to write as well |
18:31 | <gfldex> | and you dont need threads |
18:31 | <TrueBrain> | you don't get it :) |
18:31 | <TrueBrain> | hehe |
18:31 | <TrueBrain> | without microthreads, a server of this magnitude == slow |
18:31 | <TrueBrain> | in which ever langugage |
18:31 | <TrueBrain> | -g :p |
18:31 | <gfldex> | you ever used Qt? |
18:32 | <TrueBrain> | only for some simple GUI |
18:34 | <gfldex> | TrueBrain: you know that CCP is switching from stackless to C++ bit by bit? |
18:34 | <gfldex> | at least for the server part |
18:34 | <gfldex> | the client will stay in stackless for some time |
18:34 | <TrueBrain> | at the 17th of August they claimed something else |
18:34 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: anyway, CCP doesn't use microthreads (yet) |
18:35 | <gfldex> | they sayed they do |
18:35 | <Sacro> | TrueBrain: thats too complex for stupid little me |
18:35 | <gfldex> | did you see the vids from last fanfest? |
18:36 | <TrueBrain> | "We will start experimenting in the use of Python threads in conjunction with tasklets to try to reduce client side lag." |
18:36 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: no, I didn't |
18:36 | <gfldex> | client != server |
18:36 | <gfldex> | they had some good interviews with quite a lot ppl |
18:37 | <gfldex> | and oveur sayed they replace python on server side bit by bit with c++ |
18:37 | <TrueBrain> | "On the server side, we have found that increased responsiveness reduces lag" |
18:37 | <TrueBrain> | (talking about replacing C++ with Python) |
18:37 | <TrueBrain> | hehe, confusing times :p |
18:37 | <TrueBrain> | but okay |
18:37 | <TrueBrain> | not that important, I guess :) |
18:38 | <gfldex> | they more or less pay the development of stackless python |
18:38 | <gfldex> | so they wont say anything bad about it |
18:38 | <TrueBrain> | true :p |
18:39 | <gfldex> | or better stay spend money to that uni where the guy got a position that is doing it |
18:39 | <TrueBrain> | anyway, normal threads are just too slow, and without threads, servers like this are a complete mess |
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18:40 | <gfldex> | that's what C++ is for. hide the mess behind classes (that happen to be messy then :) |
18:40 | <TrueBrain> | :) It is not only that |
18:40 | <TrueBrain> | take the EaB servers, there are 2 other versions: Java and C++ |
18:40 | <TrueBrain> | Java I don't know, didn't look into |
18:41 | <TrueBrain> | but the C++ is done via pthreads |
18:41 | <TrueBrain> | each connection gets a thread |
18:41 | <TrueBrain> | that server will be slow with a high amount of clients connected |
18:41 | <gfldex> | maybe they wantet to run it on spark? :) |
18:41 | <TrueBrain> | spark? |
18:42 | <gfldex> | that sun processors |
18:42 | <+glx> | I think it's sparc |
18:42 | <TrueBrain> | sparc :) |
18:42 | <TrueBrain> | ah, k :p |
18:42 | <gfldex> | it's getting late |
18:42 | <TrueBrain> | I forgive you ;) |
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18:42 | <TrueBrain> | but okay.. I like Python Stackless concept, I dislike Python :p |
18:43 | <gfldex> | is there any language that is actually good all around? |
18:43 | <TrueBrain> | of course not |
18:43 | <gfldex> | a good project for you then :-> |
18:43 | <TrueBrain> | hehe, I ahve been thinking about it ;) |
18:43 | <TrueBrain> | but no, if you are a good programmer, you will never find a language that is perfect all around |
18:44 | <TrueBrain> | there is always something :p |
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18:44 | <gfldex> | i missplaced a & in c++ code a few days back |
18:44 | <gfldex> | took me 2 days to find out whats wrong |
18:44 | <+glx> | , instead ; is nice too |
18:45 | <gfldex> | that gives you a compiler error on most cases |
18:45 | <gfldex> | i got a iterator that refused to stop to iterate |
18:46 | <gfldex> | resulting in a segfault |
18:47 | <TrueBrain> | :) |
18:47 | <TrueBrain> | and C++ is one of the best languages ;) |
18:48 | <TrueBrain> | hehe :p |
18:48 | <gfldex> | i ended up with comparing memory positions of pointers (that's what's left of iterators after optimizations) |
18:48 | <gfldex> | and i got to pointers that where different where they had to be the same |
18:48 | <gfldex> | i still could not see what was going wrong |
18:48 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: btw, one other advantage about Python, you can reload parts of it without shutting down ;) |
18:48 | <ln-> | an ottd rewrite in python?= |
18:49 | <TrueBrain> | hahaha :) |
18:49 | <TrueBrain> | good luck :p |
18:49 | <+glx> | have fun with the gui ;) |
18:49 | <TrueBrain> | I wonder if you can make a convertor... |
18:49 | <gfldex> | at first you would have to abond the grf and savegame void* deep deep black magic |
18:49 | <ln-> | i do have the python book, but i'm approximately at the "hello world" page.. |
18:49 | <gfldex> | and all those nice grfs are the point of that game |
18:50 | <TrueBrain> | lol, the memorypools would be a cool one too :p |
18:50 | <gfldex> | you would have to change anything |
18:50 | [~] | SpComb is a Python addict |
18:50 | <TrueBrain> | so basicly: a rewrite :p |
18:51 | <gfldex> | wouldn't be the worst move tho |
18:51 | <SpComb> | Python asynchronous networking/IO <3 |
18:51 | <gfldex> | you would release earth from a source of pain |
18:51 | <TrueBrain> | OpenTTD in Python, interesting concept :) |
18:52 | <gfldex> | there are bindings for SDL and kairo |
18:52 | <gfldex> | *cairo |
18:52 | <TrueBrain> | cairo |
18:52 | <TrueBrain> | ;) |
18:52 | <SpComb> | OpenTTD server in python... |
18:52 | <gfldex> | so you could build a fully zoomable gui fairly easy :) |
18:52 | <TrueBrain> | SpComb: sadly enough, impossible |
18:52 | <TrueBrain> | as the server needs to know the gamelogic |
18:52 | <Sacro> | http://www.glumbert.com/media/bbcgoatse :D |
18:53 | <TrueBrain> | and as the gamelogic is equal to the whole game |
18:53 | <TrueBrain> | ... |
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18:53 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Sacro nice try, but it still is a youtube to me |
18:53 | |-| | Sacro kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [nice try, but it still is a youtube to me] |
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18:53 | <Sacro> | aww :( |
18:53 | <gfldex> | you could give the grf (or better mod) writers a lot more freedom |
18:54 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: we can also just take Squirrel from NoAI branch, and allow that for grfs :) |
18:54 | <gfldex> | i would prefere javascript tbh |
18:54 | <gfldex> | i looked over the squirrel syntax and it got a lot stuff you dont really need |
18:54 | <TrueBrain> | we picked Squirrel, and for a simple reason: it is light |
18:54 | <TrueBrain> | 6000 lines of source-code to compile Squirrel |
18:54 | <TrueBrain> | JavaScript is a bit... bigger :p |
18:55 | <gfldex> | not much |
18:55 | <gfldex> | and you can load scripts in unicode |
18:55 | <TrueBrain> | the last time I checked, you needed a lot of files :p |
18:55 | <TrueBrain> | Squirrel too :p |
18:55 | <gfldex> | and that means you could implement the gui description completely in javascript |
18:55 | <gfldex> | translaters could translate the gui then instead of to short strings :) |
18:55 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: any scripting language can do that |
18:56 | <TrueBrain> | http://construct.wikispaces.com/tut-basics <- argh, I have made that in the last week myself! :( |
18:56 | <TrueBrain> | only a bit slower, but okay :p |
18:58 | <Sacro> | http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/03/gummy_bear_chandelier.html |
18:58 | <TrueBrain> | Sacro: pretty :) |
19:05 | <dihedral> | gnight |
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19:05 | <TrueBrain> | night dihedral |
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19:10 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: btw, the last time I benchmarked Javascript, it was very slow, relative to all other languages |
19:10 | <TrueBrain> | and last time I checked, I couldn't find a good embedable library, besides the Mozilla, which needed some lib that took 20 minutes to compile :p |
19:11 | <gfldex> | spidermonkey build in less then a minute on my system |
19:11 | <TrueBrain> | spidermonkey, that was the name |
19:11 | <TrueBrain> | I couldn't get the embed lib to work |
19:11 | <TrueBrain> | (and I did a lot of languages :p) |
19:12 | <gfldex> | did you follow the examples on developer.mozilla.org? |
19:12 | <TrueBrain> | no, it was a few years back now |
19:12 | <gfldex> | spidermonkey changed a lot in the last years |
19:12 | <gfldex> | and it's going to get even better as closer it gets to javascript 2.0 |
19:12 | <TrueBrain> | I do remember Python was a bit of a bitch to get to work :) I required that when you called a C function from the script, you could get the function-name |
19:12 | <TrueBrain> | but that wasn't that easy ;) |
19:12 | <gfldex> | operater overloading \o/ |
19:13 | <TrueBrain> | LOL! |
19:13 | <TrueBrain> | In JavaScript? |
19:13 | <TrueBrain> | that language really went overboard :) |
19:13 | <gfldex> | since 1.7 you got setters and getters and that means you can use good abstractions and working signals and slots like qt is doing it |
19:14 | <gfldex> | it got a fun little language |
19:14 | <TrueBrain> | it was ment as simple (slow) client-side language :p |
19:14 | <gfldex> | and very elegant in it's recursive(-ish) structure |
19:14 | <TrueBrain> | is it still that slow? |
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19:14 | <gfldex> | it's not optimized at all |
19:14 | <gfldex> | no JIT compiler |
19:15 | <TrueBrain> | is it planned? |
19:15 | <gfldex> | i never read about that but my guess is they are going to do that |
19:15 | <gfldex> | if you click anything in mozilla and thunderbird you will trigger some JS code |
19:16 | <gfldex> | and at some point they will have to do something about speed |
19:16 | <TrueBrain> | I sure hope so :p |
19:16 | <gfldex> | esp. when ppl start to use SVG and there are quite a lot skin writers that want to do that |
19:16 | <TrueBrain> | SVG? |
19:17 | <gfldex> | vector gfx in xml |
19:17 | <TrueBrain> | ah, that stuff yes |
19:17 | <gfldex> | http://dexhome.homelinux.org/~dex/uhr/uhr.xhtml |
19:17 | <gfldex> | animations are done in JS |
19:18 | <TrueBrain> | loading... loading... loading... |
19:18 | <gfldex> | my uplink isnt all that fast :) |
19:18 | <gfldex> | and the svg is not compressed |
19:18 | <TrueBrain> | hehe :) |
19:18 | <TrueBrain> | not bad ;) |
19:18 | <TrueBrain> | so GoogleOS will be a fact |
19:19 | <gfldex> | and in firefox-3 you will have blur as a effect and that means really easy drop shadows |
19:19 | <De_Ghost> | really? |
19:19 | <gfldex> | like compiz got them |
19:19 | <De_Ghost> | google os? |
19:19 | <De_Ghost> | that'll be awsome |
19:19 | <De_Ghost> | as long as they don't deliever ads |
19:19 | <De_Ghost> | lol |
19:20 | <gfldex> | you can filter them in your http proxy :D |
19:20 | <TrueBrain> | De_Ghost: I am saying this for, what, 2 years now? Ever since Google became a hit: there will be a GoogleOS |
19:20 | <TrueBrain> | a fully webbased Operating System |
19:20 | <De_Ghost> | oh |
19:20 | <De_Ghost> | pfft |
19:20 | <De_Ghost> | forget that |
19:20 | <TrueBrain> | where your computer only needs to set up some browser in some graphical mode (read: DOS) |
19:20 | <De_Ghost> | i don't want a web link |
19:20 | <TrueBrain> | and that via a webbrowser you do everything |
19:21 | <TrueBrain> | from word-editing, till OpenTTD |
19:21 | <gfldex> | in firefox-3 svg got 4x as fast fps then in stable release |
19:21 | <gfldex> | so they start to do something with that |
19:21 | <gfldex> | finally after ... uhm ... 3 years |
19:21 | <TrueBrain> | I made windows via Javascript |
19:21 | <TrueBrain> | that was fun :) |
19:21 | <TrueBrain> | you could drag them |
19:21 | <TrueBrain> | open them |
19:21 | <gfldex> | there are browser games that use svg to display stuff |
19:22 | <TrueBrain> | hmm, I no longer have that project active, so it seems |
19:23 | <gfldex> | http://dexhome.homelinux.org/~dex/test/window.xhtml |
19:23 | <TrueBrain> | too bad, it was so much fun :) Just dead and dead slow |
19:23 | <gfldex> | with magnetic borders! |
19:23 | <gfldex> | well you have to tune firefox a bit |
19:23 | <gfldex> | it got a minimum delay for repainting |
19:23 | <gfldex> | you have to lower that a bit |
19:24 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: hehe, mine did more: you could open Notepad, and Calculator (which really worked :p) |
19:24 | <TrueBrain> | via AJAX calls to the server and back |
19:24 | <gfldex> | with firefox-3 cairo support will enjoy us and that means (at least some day) compositing of the whole browser in opengl :) |
19:25 | <TrueBrain> | hehe |
19:25 | <TrueBrain> | I like you gfldex :p |
19:25 | <gfldex> | i make the future look bright, dont it? :D |
19:26 | <TrueBrain> | nah, you remind me of myself :) |
19:30 | <TrueBrain> | pff, this will be the 3rd big rewrite of my lovely server :p |
19:30 | <TrueBrain> | sigh... |
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19:36 | <TrueBrain> | I still dream to make a patch that allows clustering of server, so you can have 1000 players playing one map :) |
19:36 | <TrueBrain> | (in OpenTTD) |
19:36 | <TrueBrain> | possible: yes; difficult: VERY |
19:37 | <Sacro> | Science: Purpose of Appendix Believed Found |
19:37 | <Sacro> | Posted by CowboyNeal on Saturday October 06, @11:08AM |
19:37 | <Sacro> | from the still-at-the-back-of-the-book dept. |
19:37 | [~] | Sacro roffles |
19:38 | <@Belugas> | how difficult, TrueBrain? or rather, where is the complexity? |
19:39 | <Sacro> | oh Belugas, did you see that picture earlier, it may be a bug |
19:39 | <TrueBrain> | Belugas: what I have in mind means creating a map of, say, 102400x12400 |
19:39 | <TrueBrain> | spawned over multiple servers |
19:39 | <TrueBrain> | and clients connect from one server to the other if they cross borders |
19:39 | <TrueBrain> | each sector-server keeps track of his piece of land |
19:39 | <TrueBrain> | and the client only has a map of, say, 512x512 |
19:39 | <TrueBrain> | so needless to say, there is the difficulty ;) |
19:40 | <@Belugas> | ho... yeah :i get the picture :) |
19:40 | <@Belugas> | but it woul be soooooo coooooolll |
19:40 | <gfldex> | you could start with registering players and keep their wallet |
19:40 | <TrueBrain> | the client part is relative easy |
19:40 | <gfldex> | and increase running costs |
19:40 | <@Belugas> | Sacro, not a bug:) |
19:40 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: glx * r11222 /branches/noai/src/autoslope.h: [NoAI] -Fix (r11221): my text editor decided to play with me between compilation and commit |
19:40 | <TrueBrain> | the main problem I have: servers would have a 2048x2048 map |
19:40 | <@Belugas> | simply an optical illusion :) |
19:40 | <gfldex> | so you have to start little and make your way up the ladder |
19:40 | <TrueBrain> | so create a 10240x10240 map, you need |
19:41 | <TrueBrain> | @calc 10240*10240 / (2048*2048) |
19:41 | <@DorpsGek> | TrueBrain: 25 |
19:41 | <TrueBrain> | servers |
19:41 | <@Belugas> | and tat will break a bit the general maparray... |
19:41 | <TrueBrain> | a normal computer can run, like, 4 servers |
19:41 | <TrueBrain> | so you need 7 computers :p |
19:41 | <TrueBrain> | Belugas: not really a problem, with some clever calculations :) |
19:42 | <gfldex> | would you let players be able to have tracks from one server to the other? |
19:42 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: yes |
19:42 | <TrueBrain> | the easy way is to make special portals |
19:42 | <gfldex> | you could implement the connections like tunnels |
19:42 | <TrueBrain> | then the implementation becomes very simple |
19:42 | <TrueBrain> | so a very high montain on the borders :p |
19:42 | <TrueBrain> | but it is even possible to remove that |
19:43 | <TrueBrain> | and make the border seemless for the client |
19:43 | <TrueBrain> | but... it takes a lot of coding :) |
19:43 | <gfldex> | give each train a GUID and keep a distributed mapping of players<->trains |
19:43 | <TrueBrain> | gfldex: it can be done much easier |
19:43 | <TrueBrain> | just at some tiles, a train is tracked by 2 servers |
19:43 | <TrueBrain> | the big plus about OpenTTD is, that the game logic is 'static' |
19:43 | <TrueBrain> | the same thing happens over and over and over with the same Random |
19:44 | <TrueBrain> | so the main difficulty is to make this Random happen correctly |
19:44 | <TrueBrain> | solution is easy: make the Random set per object |
19:44 | <TrueBrain> | (so each train has its own seed) |
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19:44 | <@Belugas> | TrueBrain: like someone told me recently "write it down" |
19:44 | <TrueBrain> | Belugas: yeah, I did, in the past :) |
19:44 | <gfldex> | we use IRC for a reason :) |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | I was wondering why my BNC was lagging |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | but there is a bzip process running on the host |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | hehe |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | anyway, when each object has its own seed (and thatone is used correctly) |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | it doesn't matter who moves it |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | they all move it the same way |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | make the same choices |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | etc etc |
19:45 | <TrueBrain> | (unsure if YAPF agree with me here, but okay, we take NTP :p) |
19:45 | <gfldex> | how do you keep time in sync? |
19:46 | <TrueBrain> | that is a bit tricky, you need to assume all servers make the 30 fps |
19:46 | <TrueBrain> | else you need to make a general hearthbeat |
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19:46 | <TrueBrain> | telling all servers to do a tick, and check in when they did |
19:46 | <TrueBrain> | which means if 1 servers lags, they all lag |
19:46 | <gfldex> | you know how CCP keeps their sol server in sync? |
19:46 | <TrueBrain> | 1 sector doesn't have direct conect with the other, right? |
19:47 | <gfldex> | right, they dont |
19:47 | <TrueBrain> | so that is much easier |
19:47 | <TrueBrain> | even if 1 server is 10 times as fast, nobody would really notice |
19:47 | <gfldex> | when a ship leaves a system it stores its state in the DB and deregisters |
19:47 | <gfldex> | then the proxy is connecting to the other sol server and that one loads that stuff from DB |
19:47 | <TrueBrain> | a simple server-handoff :) |
19:47 | <TrueBrain> | in this case, it is a bit more tricky :) |
19:47 | <gfldex> | thats why jumping with 300 ppl is a pain in the popo |
19:48 | <TrueBrain> | all MMO of this type have that |
19:48 | <TrueBrain> | joining is most of the time very expensive |
19:49 | <gfldex> | they want to move from ethernet to infiniband or something in that range |
19:49 | <gfldex> | because then can than handle connections to the DB server transparent |
19:50 | <TrueBrain> | how? |
19:50 | <gfldex> | do you know mosix? |
19:50 | <TrueBrain> | read about it long ago |
19:50 | <gfldex> | you can move one process from one host to another |
19:51 | <gfldex> | if you use a clustering fs (or a DB) you have to deregister and reregister all your connections |
19:51 | <gfldex> | because TCP is to stupid to handle that transparently |
19:51 | <gfldex> | the limitation here is ethernet |
19:51 | [~] | Sacro stretches |
19:51 | <gfldex> | with cluster network connections you have another layer of abstraction |
19:52 | <gfldex> | and that means you can move a connection from one host to another, without closing the connection |
19:52 | <gfldex> | and that's cool! |
19:52 | <TrueBrain> | yeah, but still the same amount of data needs to be send |
19:52 | <TrueBrain> | I mean, you can solve it easier |
19:52 | <gfldex> | true but you dont have to talk to the DB anymore |
19:52 | <TrueBrain> | instead of doing it via the DB, let the leaving sector server pack the data it is using and send it to the joining server |
19:53 | <gfldex> | the two hosts involed can handle that between each other |
19:53 | <TrueBrain> | avoids the talk to the DB also ;) |
19:53 | <TrueBrain> | but okay, it is basicly the same, what I say and what you say :) |
19:53 | <gfldex> | thats what they want to do |
19:53 | <gfldex> | IBM is doing that for ages on the mainframe |
19:53 | <TrueBrain> | I am suprised they aren't doing that ... |
19:53 | <gfldex> | cant be that hard :) |
19:54 | <TrueBrain> | the only question is: do they have the player-data in a single struct or is it spread all over the place :p |
19:54 | <gfldex> | they use ethernet and windows |
19:54 | <gfldex> | under linux you can have loads and loads of IPs |
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19:54 | <gfldex> | you could make the connection transparent with some arp spoofing |
19:54 | <gfldex> | that's not possible with windows |
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19:55 | <TrueBrain> | are they servers running on Windows?! |
19:55 | <gfldex> | and they use MSSQL |
19:55 | <TrueBrain> | OMG! |
19:55 | <TrueBrain> | really... |
19:55 | <gfldex> | there was a funny video |
19:55 | <TrueBrain> | I expected more of them... |
19:55 | <gfldex> | do you know that marketing guy from CCP? magnus something? |
19:55 | <TrueBrain> | I know very little about CCP |
19:56 | <gfldex> | he was asked (in a vid) if they did well with the choice of MSSQL |
19:56 | <gfldex> | and he was sitting in front of that camera for 20 sec thinking what he should say |
19:56 | <gfldex> | quite funny :) |
19:56 | <TrueBrain> | lol :) |
19:56 | <TrueBrain> | there is no good word |
19:56 | <TrueBrain> | I have worked for this company |
19:56 | <TrueBrain> | and all their servers were normal user-servers |
19:56 | <TrueBrain> | nothing fancy |
19:56 | <TrueBrain> | but one |
19:57 | <TrueBrain> | that was a beast |
19:57 | <TrueBrain> | 4 CPUs |
19:57 | <TrueBrain> | dunno what more |
19:57 | <TrueBrain> | why? Because it had MSSQL running |
19:57 | <TrueBrain> | how many users? Just 5 |
19:57 | <gfldex> | MSSQL is a benchmark DB |
19:59 | <TrueBrain> | hmm, I remember reading they used MSSQL several years back |
19:59 | <TrueBrain> | then I already laughed my ass off |
19:59 | <TrueBrain> | I expected they had moved by now... |
20:00 | <gfldex> | the whole point of MSSQL is that you can't move off |
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20:00 | <gfldex> | vendor lockin as it's best |
20:02 | <@Belugas> | Sacro, i keep on looking at that picture :) it's incredibly good looking |
20:02 | <Sacro> | Belugas: isn't my pic |
20:02 | <Sacro> | but it is nice |
20:03 | <@Belugas> | it feels strange to see it been used on ottd by a non dev :D |
20:03 | <ln-> | wtf, i tried to install FreeBSD on vmware, and after a successful-looking installation it just says "can't load 'kernel'" after reboot. |
20:03 | <TrueBrain> | ln-: nasty |
20:03 | <ln-> | i tried again, same result. |
20:05 | <ln-> | "FreeBSD на VmWare плохо работает" says google |
20:05 | <TrueBrain> | now that makes sense |
20:05 | <TrueBrain> | NOT |
20:05 | <TrueBrain> | (Boray) |
20:05 | <TrueBrain> | (Borat) |
20:06 | <ln-> | "FreeBSD na VmWare ploha rabotayet" |
20:06 | <TrueBrain> | still not understanding |
20:06 | <gfldex> | rabotayet is easy |
20:06 | <gfldex> | i'm sure you can figure that one out |
20:06 | <TrueBrain> | I can a lot, but I am lazy :p |
20:07 | <mcbane> | rabotayet = working or something similar? |
20:07 | <+glx> | "FreeBSD works in VmWare" or something like that |
20:07 | <+glx> | my russian is rusty |
20:07 | <ln-> | ploha = bad |
20:07 | <+glx> | oh yes I miss the important bit ;) |
20:08 | <ln-> | and neploha would be good |
20:08 | <mcbane> | well i know a few croatian =) |
20:12 | <ln-> | well, i'll pick another *BSD then. |
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20:28 | <TrueBrain> | oh well, time to get some sleep :) |
20:28 | <TrueBrain> | it was nice talking to you gfldex :) |
20:28 | <TrueBrain> | night all! |
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20:32 | <toresbe> | "ya tvoy sluga, ya tvoy robotnik" |
20:33 | <ln-> | sounds like kraftwerk |
20:35 | <toresbe> | Kraftwerk quoted it, I believe. |
20:35 | <toresbe> | it is from Karel Capek's play R. U. R. |
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20:37 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: belugas * r11223 /trunk/src/industry_map.h: -Fix[FS#1306]: Rename and refactor adequately a function that actually returns void and set bits (smatz). |
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20:38 | <ln-> | ah, it's rabotnik |
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20:38 | <ln-> | and funny that слуга is a masculine, but it is. |
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21:27 | <ln-> | done watching ST: TNG season 2 [x] |
21:28 | <ln-> | warning: the last episode of season 2 is the worst of all times. |
21:33 | <ln-> | interesting, Dr. Pulaski, the 2nd season doctor has acted in a few episodes TOS, too. |
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22:32 | <Amix> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkSh6KP7igs |
22:32 | <Amix> | this is so cool!!! |
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--- | Log | closed Sun Oct 07 00:00:27 2007 |