| --- | Log | opened Mon Oct 08 00:00:00 2007 |
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| 00:18 | <SquireJames> | hello all |
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| 04:27 | <TrueBrain> | morning |
| 04:27 | <boekabart> | hi |
| 04:28 | <Amixosx> | morning |
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| 04:41 | <Rubidium> | good moaning |
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| 04:45 | <TrueBrain> | oh no, not this guy again |
| 04:45 | <TrueBrain> | does anyone know who this Rubidium is? I find him rather annoying |
| 04:47 | <TheMask96> | all dutch people are annoying ;) |
| 04:47 | <TrueBrain> | very true |
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| 05:05 | <TrueBrain> | any FON user here? :p |
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| 05:30 | [~] | Purno pokes boekabart |
| 05:31 | [~] | TrueBrain slaps Purno: don't poke, it is rude |
| 05:31 | [~] | Purno slaps boekabart |
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| 05:31 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Purno now stop doing that |
| 05:31 | |-| | Purno kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [now stop doing that] |
| 05:31 | <TrueBrain> | grrr |
| 05:31 | |-| | Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 05:31 | <Purno> | wtf? |
| 05:32 | <TrueBrain> | yeah, that is what you get :p |
| 05:32 | <Purno> | what the hell is wrong with poking someone? |
| 05:32 | <TrueBrain> | it is rude! And then you switch to slapping? I don't like SM :( |
| 05:32 | <TrueBrain> | (not in this channel anyway :p) |
| 05:32 | <Purno> | you were the first one slapping |
| 05:32 | <TrueBrain> | DOH! |
| 05:32 | <boekabart> | Purno: yeah yeah |
| 05:32 | <TrueBrain> | @kick TrueBrain now stop doing that |
| 05:32 | |-| | TrueBrain kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [now stop doing that] |
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| 05:33 | <TrueBrain> | so, now I am back on my kick quota for today :) Sorry Purno, I just dislike dutch people :p |
| 05:34 | <Purno> | I hope your dutch too, otherwise it'd be rather discrimating |
| 05:34 | <boekabart> | fortunately he is. Low self esteem... |
| 05:34 | <TrueBrain> | :) |
| 05:34 | <TrueBrain> | very low |
| 05:35 | [~] | TrueBrain hugs Purno |
| 05:35 | <TrueBrain> | better? :) |
| 05:35 | [~] | Purno huggles TrueBrain |
| 05:35 | <TrueBrain> | :$ |
| 05:35 | <TrueBrain> | @kick TrueBrain NO MSN ICONS! |
| 05:35 | |-| | TrueBrain kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [NO MSN ICONS!] |
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| 05:35 | <TrueBrain> | hard to keep up with the rules... |
| 05:36 | <TrueBrain> | I wish HalfLife OrangeBox was there... |
| 05:36 | <Purno> | eh... don't tell me you seriously have those kind of silly rules? |
| 05:36 | <TrueBrain> | no |
| 05:37 | <TrueBrain> | only when it annoys me |
| 05:37 | <TrueBrain> | and yes, MSN Icons really are a true pain in the ass to read on IRC |
| 05:37 | <TrueBrain> | but tha tmostly because nobody understands... |
| 05:39 | <TrueBrain> | lalala, pompiedom |
| 05:40 | <TrueBrain> | hmm, mouse needs new batteries |
| 05:40 | <TrueBrain> | annoying |
| 05:45 | <TrueBrain> | toen onze boekabart een boekje was, was hij aardig om te zien! Nu boekt hij alle boeken, en neust hij bovendien! (don't ask, I am totally bored) |
| 05:46 | <boekabart> | TrueBrain: then read and critize boekje's deepwater patch :) |
| 05:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i figure i really shouldn't ... |
| 05:46 | <TrueBrain> | boekabart: in fact, I was doing just that :p |
| 05:46 | <boekabart> | then you really _are_ bored |
| 05:47 | <TrueBrain> | told you |
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| 05:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | actually, who was the guy with the tunnel patch, and where did he disappear to? |
| 05:47 | <boekabart> | Eddi|zuHause: what tunnel patch do you refer to? |
| 05:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the one with the video |
| 05:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | arbitrary rails in tunnels |
| 05:48 | <boekabart> | never heard of it |
| 05:48 | <TrueBrain> | yeah, I know what you mean |
| 05:48 | <TrueBrain> | the guy publishing a ogg video |
| 05:49 | <TrueBrain> | SmatZ was it |
| 05:49 | <TrueBrain> | boekabart: this: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/SmatZ/tunnel.avi |
| 05:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | @seen SmatZ |
| 05:50 | <@DorpsGek> | Eddi|zuHause: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 12 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <SmatZ> good night |
| 05:50 | <boekabart> | TrueBrain: you even gave him his own directory on your ~ folder.. |
| 05:51 | <TrueBrain> | yeah, so I could remember the name :p |
| 05:51 | <TrueBrain> | I might look stupid, but I have my moments :) |
| 05:56 | [~] | boekabart cannot play divx/xvid at work ;( |
| 05:56 | <boekabart> | :( too |
| 05:56 | <TrueBrain> | boekabart: this: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/SmatZ/tunnel.ogg |
| 05:56 | <TrueBrain> | maybe? :p |
| 05:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | rofl :p |
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| 06:02 | <toresbe> | hrm |
| 06:03 | <toresbe> | the tunnel feature realle looks cool |
| 06:03 | <toresbe> | it's not in SVN is it? |
| 06:03 | <TrueBrain> | nope |
| 06:04 | <TrueBrain> | I believe nobody has seen the code |
| 06:04 | <toresbe> | meh. It's a really good idea though |
| 06:15 | <Ammler> | you mean the thing from SmartZ? |
| 06:16 | <toresbe> | I don't know.. :) |
| 06:16 | <Ammler> | or enhanced tunnel? |
| 06:16 | <toresbe> | well, that tunnel thing what makes me can place lights |
| 06:17 | <Ammler> | ah, ok, there is no patch available for that |
| 06:17 | <toresbe> | k :) |
| 06:17 | <toresbe> | Are there any other tunnel improvements out - or in the works? |
| 06:19 | <Ammler> | hmm, not that I know off, peter???? is working on enhanced tunnels, but also no patch availalbe for, as much as I know... |
| 06:19 | <boekabart> | peter???? as in peter1138? |
| 06:20 | <Ammler> | yes, he does, no? |
| 06:20 | <Ammler> | http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/downloads/grfpacks/screens/testing/enhanced_tunnels.png |
| 06:20 | <boekabart> | afaik, he's kind of missing |
| 06:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what this needs is proper ground sprites |
| 06:21 | <boekabart> | what this needs is a patch that works first :) |
| 06:24 | <Ammler> | boekabart: is there a patch for that already? (a non working one) |
| 06:26 | <boekabart> | yes, ttdpatch :) (no, not that I know of) |
| 06:26 | <Ammler> | yeah, the screen is from there... :) |
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| 08:00 | <Sacro> | rawr |
| 08:00 | <Phazorx> | http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3568/coop7thmar2035ot7.png |
| 08:00 | <Phazorx> | ttrs issue? |
| 08:04 | <Sacro> | or sprite drawer |
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| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what is "Industry Stations Renewal"? |
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| 08:45 | <Phazorx> | Eddi|zuHause: buggy facelift for industry stations |
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| 08:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so you don't recommend it? |
| 08:45 | <Phazorx> | more variety of station tiles (as well as non track ones) but they work normally only with rails, monorail and mlev is a bit buggy |
| 08:45 | <Phazorx> | Eddi|zuHause: i'd say wait till release, sionce curerntly it is beta |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i don't usually use monorail or maglev |
| 09:02 | <Phazorx> | well try it then |
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| 09:08 | <Phazorx> | http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6299/coop6thmay2036sq5.png |
| 09:09 | <Phazorx> | http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1940/coop17thjan2036xt8.png |
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| 09:56 | <SpComb> | hylje: ...and I don't particularly like paster, it's just the web framework that I've used and seems kind of quick to use |
| 09:56 | <SpComb> | pylons, I mean |
| 09:57 | <hylje> | :o |
| 09:57 | <SpComb> | but the load averages on marttila.de were between 4 and 14 for the past few weeks, and now that I've restarted paster (which was at around 170m of ram, RES), they're down to about 0.10 |
| 09:57 | <hylje> | haha |
| 09:57 | <SpComb> | which makes me contemplate if I want to switch MyOTTD to something a bit more lean before its too late |
| 09:58 | <SpComb> | SpBotII's stagnating for somewhat similar reasons... |
| 09:59 | <hylje> | i suppose |
| 09:59 | <hylje> | i didnt manage to get pylons up |
| 09:59 | <SpComb> | writing cgi python apps was very enjoyable <3 |
| 10:00 | <SpComb> | there wasn't fifty thousand lines of bloated (but admittedly useful) code between your code and the web server |
| 10:00 | <hylje> | :D |
| 10:02 | <SpComb> | things like routes are really nice features in Pylons that Django doesn't have (at least by default) |
| 10:03 | |-| | Progman [~progman@p57A1F0F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 10:05 | <SpComb> | but if pylons is keeping you from looking at MyOTTD, I wouldn't mind looking at alternatives... |
| 10:05 | |-| | Csaboka [~csaboka@193.6.168.53] has joined #openttd |
| 10:05 | <Csaboka> | Hi folks |
| 10:06 | [~] | SpComb is starting to run into problems with his maths/physics stuff at university though, and needs to give those priority over MyOTTD, though |
| 10:06 | <hylje> | :< |
| 10:06 | <hylje> | i know the feeling |
| 10:07 | <hylje> | i suppose i could work on porting that thing |
| 10:07 | <TrueBrain> | hi Csaboka |
| 10:07 | <SpComb> | the web app isn't particularly complex, most of the real code is in the twisted daemon |
| 10:07 | <TrueBrain> | SpComb: I know that problem... |
| 10:07 | <Csaboka> | I have some problems with the OTTD source code |
| 10:08 | <TrueBrain> | Csaboka: with the source-code, you don't hear thatone every day |
| 10:08 | <Csaboka> | I'm trying to extend the animated tile list from 256 items to a dynamically allocated array |
| 10:08 | <Csaboka> | but I got really lost with the load/save routines |
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| 10:09 | <TrueBrain> | look at other dynamic arrays |
| 10:09 | <Csaboka> | in TTDPatch, you just give it a bunch of bytes and off you go, but OTTD has to do it in a more complicated way |
| 10:09 | <Csaboka> | well, I couldn't find any other array whose size can't be figured out before loading |
| 10:10 | <TrueBrain> | almost all arrays for big things are dynamic |
| 10:10 | <TrueBrain> | best example I guess is either depots or signs |
| 10:11 | <Csaboka> | but those use an array of objects, and that seems to be different from the RIFF format the animation array seems to use |
| 10:11 | <+glx> | Rubidium started to do something for animated tiles |
| 10:12 | <Csaboka> | oh, so I guess I'm working in vain, then, he must be more familiar with the code :) |
| 10:12 | <+glx> | he have problems with saveload too :) |
| 10:13 | <Csaboka> | in TTDPatch, I would have saved a length prefix, then the TileIndexes, but I don't know if this is the right way for OTTD or not |
| 10:13 | <Csaboka> | or even, how to read a simple uint32 from the savegame |
| 10:14 | <Phazorx> | glx, TrueBrain can you confirm if this is ttrs issue or soemtihng else: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3568/coop7thmar2035ot7.png |
| 10:14 | <boekabart> | hehe, it was amazingly easy to make the grass-growth patch a lot nicer looking - without consuming extra bits: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=631617#p631617 |
| 10:14 | <Csaboka> | there is SlArray for arrays, but ReadUint32 is static |
| 10:14 | <Phazorx> | http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6299/coop6thmay2036sq5.png http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1940/coop17thjan2036xt8.png |
| 10:14 | <SpComb> | the Java course is trivial, uninteresting and takes a fair amount of work, the Digital Engineering course has a fair amount of familiar stuff, and some new stuff, the Basics of Electrical Engineering has a good lecturer and is somewhat interesting (although there's a lot of maths/physics involved), but maths and physics... lectures start at eight in the morning, the practice sessions suck and I don't like those subjects at all |
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| 10:15 | <Phazorx> | boekabart: is there a way to county used and unused track tiles? |
| 10:15 | <Phazorx> | *count |
| 10:17 | <Csaboka> | I think I'll revert the changes I've made, I could only do the easy part anyway, I guess Rubidium has already done that |
| 10:18 | <boekabart> | Phazorx: there is a way :) |
| 10:18 | <+glx> | I can't get his diff :( |
| 10:18 | <boekabart> | but not in the current patch |
| 10:19 | <Phazorx> | boekabart: would be very nice |
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| 10:19 | <Phazorx> | especialy applied to coopers aproach to evaluate performance of network |
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| 10:20 | <boekabart> | Phazorx: well the 'usage' is a byte between 0 and 255 |
| 10:20 | <boekabart> | 0 = 'new / just used' |
| 10:21 | <boekabart> | so 'counting' is hard - an average number would be doable but it's exact meaning is tricky, although 'the lower the better' is a good indication :) |
| 10:21 | <Phazorx> | boekabart: days? |
| 10:21 | <boekabart> | no |
| 10:21 | <boekabart> | not linear |
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| 10:22 | <Phazorx> | i mean what does the count represents? |
| 10:22 | <boekabart> | Nothing: over time it in increases, on usage, it decreases |
| 10:22 | <Phazorx> | decreases or restets? |
| 10:22 | <Phazorx> | resets |
| 10:22 | <boekabart> | decreases, the first train doesn't clean everything away |
| 10:23 | <Phazorx> | hmm... |
| 10:23 | <boekabart> | if it would, it would be useless as a 'usage indicator' |
| 10:23 | <Phazorx> | what i meant is actualy that param across all tiles of same company |
| 10:23 | <boekabart> | the way I did it (non-linear), it will stabilize around a certain number indicating the track usage |
| 10:23 | <boekabart> | lower = more efficiently used |
| 10:23 | <Phazorx> | well logarifmic scale would make great sense |
| 10:24 | <Phazorx> | but i really want to know total count of all tacks per type and some number representing percentage used |
| 10:24 | <boekabart> | pls look at patch, I don't know the exact formula by heart, but I did it this way (loga-ish) so that it would settle around a certain value based on the number of trains per 'time'. |
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| 10:25 | <Phazorx> | and for making game more challening - property tax should be proportional to amounf of tracks |
| 10:25 | <skidd13> | hi |
| 10:25 | <Phazorx> | boekabart: i'll check the patch and from sound of it looks like you are on right track |
| 10:25 | <boekabart> | Phazorx: it's definately possible to take the average of the numbers and derive an efficiency number from it - not in % though |
| 10:25 | <boekabart> | ok. gotta go now |
| 10:25 | <Phazorx> | i'm just saying it would be ncie to have more than just visual representation... that data has economical/game menaing as well |
| 10:26 | <boekabart> | i know - it should be added to tile-info ? as wel |
| 10:26 | <boekabart> | well |
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| 10:27 | <Csaboka> | I have to go, bye |
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| 10:35 | [~] | SpComb rewrites it in PHP |
| 10:36 | <hylje> | ha |
| 10:37 | <SpComb> | or perhaps I should write my own web framework, if I knew the code in and out then I wouldn't have any of these problems |
| 10:37 | [~] | SpComb is looking at CherryPy |
| 10:38 | <SpComb> | web.py's templating is ridiculously bad, and I didn't like the weird globals magic either |
| 10:38 | <SpComb> | pylons uses threadlocal globals (imported via "import * from ..."), which are even worse |
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| 11:01 | <skidd13> | @seen Wolf01 |
| 11:01 | <@DorpsGek> | skidd13: Wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 47 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Wolf01> 'night |
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| 11:23 | <SpComb> | hmm, taking a big screenshot gets a little big unrealistic once the map size goes up |
| 11:24 | <SpComb> | 8x8 was reasonably fast, but 10x10 seems to be taking a while |
| 11:25 | <Rubidium> | it's "only" 16 times as big |
| 11:25 | <SpComb> | a nice 219.8MB .png |
| 11:26 | <SpComb> | I'm assuming that there's currently no way to get a minimap out of a dedciated server in .png form? |
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| 11:34 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 11:34 | <TrueBrain> | Hi :) |
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| 11:36 | [~] | SpComb ponders feasability of modifying smallmap_gui.c to draw the minimap as a PNG image |
| 11:36 | <TrueBrain> | not impossible |
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| 11:37 | <SpComb> | I'm getting closer and closer to patching openttd for use with MyOTTD |
| 11:37 | <TrueBrain> | do it :) |
| 11:38 | <SpComb> | I probably will, although I'll run lots of risks in terms of stuff breaking with different versions of OpenTTD and not compiling/crashing |
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| 12:12 | <Ihmemies> | youtube links aren't cool? :( |
| 12:14 | <hylje> | yes |
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| 12:33 | <boekabart> | !logs |
| 12:33 | <SpComb> | Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) |
| 12:36 | <Wolf01> | boekabart, how's going with the water? |
| 12:38 | <boekabart> | Wolf01: Wet, very wet |
| 12:39 | <Wolf01> | do you are in deep water with that patch? |
| 12:39 | <boekabart> | I don't know - I've been getting feedback from the devs |
| 12:39 | <boekabart> | but if it's actually really considered - ask them :) |
| 12:40 | [~] | boekabart just opened a scanjet2400.. by force |
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| 12:41 | <Wolf01> | hammertime? |
| 12:41 | <Vaevictus> | can the advanced signals be used in an optimized fashion with bidirectional stations? or just with loops? |
| 12:41 | <boekabart> | it might be closeable and working again,, but the glass was dirty on the inside |
| 12:43 | <Wolf01> | dinner time |
| 12:43 | |-| | Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY |
| 12:46 | <SpComb> | oops |
| 12:47 | [~] | boekabart is quite happy with the result of the cleaning job |
| 12:47 | <SpComb> | looks like a bunch of people tried to create MyOTTD servers, but there were some slight bugs in the add-a-new-server part |
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| 13:05 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ |
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| 13:07 | <mcbane> | is there a way to log activity of network games if i host one? |
| 13:07 | <TrueBrain> | tcpdump |
| 13:07 | <mcbane> | because i dunny why but with ECS i getting a huge desync rate. |
| 13:08 | <TrueBrain> | ah, that kind :p |
| 13:08 | <TrueBrain> | what is ECS? |
| 13:08 | <mcbane> | extended cargo set |
| 13:08 | <mcbane> | grf |
| 13:08 | <TrueBrain> | ah |
| 13:08 | <boekabart> | mcbane: large map? |
| 13:08 | <mcbane> | 1kx1k |
| 13:08 | <TrueBrain> | there are ways to debug it, but you need a dev to help you out I guess :) |
| 13:09 | <boekabart> | right.. probably what ah, the ttdpatch newindustries developer suggests in the forum |
| 13:09 | <boekabart> | not enough animated tile slots |
| 13:09 | <TrueBrain> | scx |
| 13:09 | <TrueBrain> | shouldnt' desync ;) |
| 13:09 | <Rubidium> | boekabart: that shouldn't cause desyncs |
| 13:09 | <boekabart> | well depends how the tile slots are being filled, right? |
| 13:10 | <Rubidium> | in the same manner in each client, or so it should be |
| 13:10 | <boekabart> | but ok, if it's not 'screen position related', it shouldn't |
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| 13:10 | <DaleStan> | Apparently, ECS uses its animation state for storing other state. Could the extra animated tiles be getting undefined info for their animation state? |
| 13:11 | <TrueBrain> | a good grf should check the flag if there are more-animations, not? :p |
| 13:11 | <Rubidium> | DaleStan: undefined maybe, but the same on all clients/servers |
| 13:11 | <DaleStan> | Nope. No way to know the moreanimation setting, and even if there were, there's no way to know if it's large enough. |
| 13:12 | <TrueBrain> | | (0 << 0x1C) // moreanimations |
| 13:12 | <TrueBrain> | then what is that? |
| 13:12 | <DaleStan> | Unless it's set to at least $TILES_ON_MAP. |
| 13:12 | <DaleStan> | That just returns on/off. Which could just as easily be moreanimation 256 (no change) or moreanimation 65535 . |
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| 13:16 | <mcbane> | another thing i noticed at creating the random map at bout 50% itis really sol for about 10%... |
| 13:16 | <DaleStan> | (It's also wrong; the switch is "moreanimation", not "moreanimations".) |
| 13:17 | [~] | SpComb straightened out the MyOTTD code |
| 13:17 | <DaleStan> | mcbane: Could you try again, but in English this time? |
| 13:17 | |-| | AntB [~AntB-UK@81.140.83.104] has joined #openttd |
| 13:17 | <SpComb> | and tested/fixed the Add Server thing for the first time since I first wrote it |
| 13:18 | <mcbane> | dale: when creating a random map the progress is shown in % |
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| 13:18 | <mcbane> | right? |
| 13:18 | <DaleStan> | Anyone here can be assumed to know that. |
| 13:18 | <@Bjarni> | I think it's the sol part that we don't get |
| 13:19 | <DerFraggy> | hi guys, is there a specific irc-channel for ttd-internetgames? |
| 13:19 | <mcbane> | ok at creating industries when it reaches 50% its like something slowing the creating of industries dramatically.. |
| 13:19 | <DaleStan> | "bout" isn't valid in that context either. |
| 13:19 | <mcbane> | missed an a.. |
| 13:20 | <@Bjarni> | mcbane: do you mean that when it's at 50%, it stalls for a moment? |
| 13:20 | <mcbane> | yea |
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| 13:20 | <@Bjarni> | this would have been a whole lot easier if you just said so from the beginning |
| 13:21 | <@Bjarni> | and said it in English as well |
| 13:21 | <@Bjarni> | hi Brianetta |
| 13:21 | <Brianetta> | re |
| 13:21 | <@Bjarni> | wb Brianetta |
| 13:21 | <@Bjarni> | :) |
| 13:21 | <Brianetta> | re (: |
| 13:23 | <@Bjarni> | what's the idea about spam that don't sell anything or contains any links at all? :s |
| 13:23 | |-| | Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-144-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd |
| 13:23 | <@Bjarni> | I just got one saying "bigger is better" and that's it. No product name or links or anything |
| 13:24 | <hylje> | it's marketing |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | for what? |
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| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | bigger HDs? |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | bigger TVs? |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | bigger cars? |
| 13:25 | <boekabart> | Bjarni: just say the word |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | word |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | err |
| 13:25 | <boekabart> | bigger words! |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | the word |
| 13:25 | <@Bjarni> | THE WORD |
| 13:26 | [~] | boekabart pats Bjarni, he's a good boy :) |
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| 13:27 | <@Bjarni> | you know, it could be one of those unit enlargement thingies, but they usually tell you how to give them money for their worthless pills |
| 13:28 | <boekabart> | there we have it, bigger thingies |
| 13:29 | <@Bjarni> | but I don't need that |
| 13:29 | <boekabart> | she says that just to be nice |
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| 13:29 | <@Bjarni> | that was low |
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| 13:29 | <@Bjarni> | even lower than the belt area |
| 13:30 | <boekabart> | exactly there, in fact. |
| 13:30 | <boekabart> | sorry, that was indeed childish |
| 13:30 | <boekabart> | i was bored waiting for the stupid scanner |
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| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: miham * r11227 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-08 20:45:04 |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 fixed, 236 changed by TrueTenacity (239) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: croatian - 5 fixed by knovak (5) |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: italian - 1 changed by lorenzodv (1) |
| 13:46 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: slovak - 2 fixed by lengyel (2) |
| 13:46 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: spanish - 2 fixed by eusebio (2) |
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| 14:02 | <Greyscale> | Stupid internet |
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| 14:04 | <SmatZ> | hello |
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| 14:08 | <+glx> | <mcbane> ok at creating industries when it reaches 50% its like something slowing the creating of industries dramatically.. <-- probably because it can't place some industries and retries a lot |
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| 14:10 | <mcbane> | if you use a 1k x 1k map there is a lot space with setting industries on low. |
| 14:11 | <+glx> | but some industries want a certain slope, or distance too water, or ... |
| 14:11 | <+glx> | *to |
| 14:27 | <mcbane> | hmm |
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| 14:56 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11228 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: implement the "moreanimation" feature of TTDP, so we can properly support newindustries. |
| 14:59 | <Ihmemies> | implement a GUI which is usable at 2560x1600 |
| 14:59 | <Ihmemies> | and some kind of nicer scaling..... :P |
| 15:00 | <Rubidium> | can you be more vague that that? |
| 15:02 | <Rubidium> | *than that |
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| 15:03 | <Ihmemies> | what's not clear then? |
| 15:03 | <Ihmemies> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gui |
| 15:04 | <Ihmemies> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling |
| 15:04 | <Ihmemies> | the gfx get absolutely too tiny at higher res |
| 15:05 | <Rubidium> | well... all problems are solved when you change the resolution to 1280x800 I guess |
| 15:06 | <SmatZ> | I use 1600x1200 on 21" CRT, and everything is nice |
| 15:06 | <SmatZ> | if you use 2560x1600 on monitor <=21", then everything is very small, yes... |
| 15:06 | <Rubidium> | even on my 1920x1200 at 15-ish" it's legible |
| 15:06 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11229 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#1307]: one could sell vehicles that were crashed in a depot, which would still yield money. |
| 15:07 | <Ihmemies> | you can probably spot a flea flying half a kilometer away on a rainy autumn night too |
| 15:07 | <De_Ghost> | what's wrong with that |
| 15:07 | <De_Ghost> | it's in depot |
| 15:07 | <De_Ghost> | lol |
| 15:07 | <Rubidium> | yeah, but scrap metal is not worth a penny |
| 15:08 | <De_Ghost> | yes it is |
| 15:08 | <De_Ghost> | why you think people recycle aluminum |
| 15:08 | <Rubidium> | De_Ghost: relatively to the price of the vehicle... |
| 15:08 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: the actual patch for selling flooded vehicles was in http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1228 |
| 15:08 | <De_Ghost> | i mean it's at least worth 200 bux |
| 15:08 | <De_Ghost> | lol |
| 15:10 | <Rubidium> | SmatZ: oh |
| 15:10 | [~] | Rubidium hates bugs that aren't really that dependant on eachother |
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| 15:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11230 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1228]: one could construct trains out of crashed wagons and engines. Based on a patch by SmatZ. |
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| 15:24 | |-| | dihedral|work changed nick to dihedral |
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| 15:42 | <huma> | hi |
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| 15:42 | <huma> | eh.. still no youtube goodies |
| 15:42 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11231 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1311] (r11128): Someone misplaced a "static". This results in wrong bounding boxes for tunnels in X direction. Patch by frosch. |
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| 15:55 | <dihedral> | Rubidium: could it be that the vast amount of desyns you see lately are from moving the network_client.tmp file to My Documents? |
| 15:56 | <+glx> | why? |
| 15:56 | <dihedral> | because if you are connected to 2 games...? :-) |
| 15:56 | <dihedral> | you get the picture |
| 15:57 | <dihedral> | having 2 separate folders is not enough anymore |
| 15:57 | <Rubidium> | dihedral: only if you join them at the same time |
| 15:58 | <dihedral> | just a thought |
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| 15:58 | <dihedral> | so it does not keep the file pointer open? |
| 15:59 | <Rubidium> | only when downloading the game and loading the game |
| 15:59 | <dihedral> | why then not download directly into memory? |
| 15:59 | <+glx> | the save should be in a place relative to openttd.cfg |
| 15:59 | <dihedral> | or would that make things more complicated |
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| 16:00 | <dihedral> | why not relative to the executable? |
| 16:00 | <Rubidium> | dihedral: that would require a total rewrite of the saveload code |
| 16:00 | <dihedral> | k |
| 16:01 | <dihedral> | relative to executable or download to mem? |
| 16:01 | <+glx> | you can use 1 exe for many servers |
| 16:01 | <Rubidium> | the latter, though the former won't work on read-only install directories |
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| 16:02 | <Rubidium> | such as installed-by-admin-and-played-by-normal-user on Windows |
| 16:02 | <dihedral> | i was just wondering because XeryusTC desynced yesterday a lot |
| 16:02 | <dihedral> | i desynced on the day before a lot |
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| 16:03 | <dihedral> | right after joining |
| 16:03 | <XeryusTC> | heh |
| 16:03 | <XeryusTC> | my desyncs were caused by building certain stations |
| 16:03 | <+glx> | yours? |
| 16:03 | <XeryusTC> | yes |
| 16:03 | <XeryusTC> | from yesterday |
| 16:03 | <dihedral> | but you were the only one desyncing |
| 16:03 | <XeryusTC> | i desynced everytime i build stations from a certain class |
| 16:04 | <XeryusTC> | i know |
| 16:04 | <dihedral> | and that like 10x in a row |
| 16:04 | <dihedral> | all right after joining |
| 16:04 | <dihedral> | i was on my nightly game the other day and 1 guy got a connection lost and 2 others got a desync... at the same time |
| 16:06 | <dihedral> | so a desync is when the seed differes right? |
| 16:06 | <@Bjarni> | sounds like a desync bug |
| 16:06 | <dihedral> | which happens when the client map is different from that of the server, right? |
| 16:06 | <@Bjarni> | like something happened at the server and not at any of the clients |
| 16:07 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
| 16:07 | <@Bjarni> | and the server map is presumed to be correct |
| 16:07 | <dihedral> | Bjarni: when the that happend i stayed connected.... |
| 16:07 | <@Bjarni> | so all clients having a different map (or vehicle count/location) will desync |
| 16:07 | <dihedral> | then why did i not...? |
| 16:07 | <@Bjarni> | <dihedral> Bjarni: when the that happend i stayed connected.... <-- odd |
| 16:08 | <@Bjarni> | really odd |
| 16:08 | <dihedral> | i had been desyncing all the time before that |
| 16:08 | <@Bjarni> | try to figure out how to reproduce this |
| 16:08 | <dihedral> | then was connected for like 10 mins and the other 3 guys flew out |
| 16:08 | <dihedral> | Bjarni: i wish i could |
| 16:08 | <@Bjarni> | you use a little endian CPU, right? |
| 16:09 | <dihedral> | AMD yes |
| 16:09 | <@Bjarni> | I don't care for brand, only if it could be caused by different endianess |
| 16:09 | <dihedral> | for both, server & workstation |
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| 16:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Brianetta: are you aware that your tracker has a overflow issue with the client count? |
| 16:11 | <@Bjarni> | I wish I could say something clever regarding what could have caused this desync and a plan on fixing it, but right now I can't think of anything :( |
| 16:12 | <dihedral> | Bjarni: in theory, if it was the endianness, i should be able to play on my PPC mac and never desync... |
| 16:12 | <@Bjarni> | well |
| 16:12 | <@Bjarni> | usually it's the PPCs that desyncs |
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| 16:12 | <dihedral> | IIRC they support some kind of switching between the both |
| 16:13 | <@Bjarni> | but yes, it could be interesting to test it on PPC |
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| 16:13 | <dihedral> | well - i'll be doing that tomorrow evening then :-) |
| 16:13 | <@Bjarni> | I know how PPC works ;) |
| 16:13 | <TrueBrain> | dihedral / XeryusTC: I missed like 90% of the story, but do I get it right that XeryusTC desynced (as the only person) when he tried to build something? |
| 16:13 | <TrueBrain> | where the rest didn't desync? |
| 16:13 | <@Bjarni> | and I know that PPC OpenTTD for OSX is big endian |
| 16:13 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: yes |
| 16:13 | <TrueBrain> | dihedral: and did the building he was trying to build really built on your side? |
| 16:13 | <dihedral> | Bjarni: well i did not know :-D |
| 16:14 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: i have no idea what he was building |
| 16:14 | <@Bjarni> | I made the port. I should know |
| 16:14 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: but that would let XeryusTC have desynced ONCE, and not 10x |
| 16:14 | <dihedral> | Bjarni: :-) |
| 16:14 | <TrueBrain> | so the case is simple: either the DoCommand issued a Random() outside the DC_EXEC block, or the server gave a CMD_ERROR where the client of XeryusTC said it was okay |
| 16:15 | <TrueBrain> | my bet is on the first case ;) |
| 16:15 | <@Bjarni> | I also know that on G3 and G4, the game will use an opcode to read an int in reversed byte order, hence switching endianess in hardware |
| 16:15 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: but XeryusTC desynced like 10x right after connecting again |
| 16:15 | <TrueBrain> | dihedral: after building the station again, right? |
| 16:15 | <XeryusTC> | not right after comming in |
| 16:15 | <dihedral> | like within a second and 15 i'd say |
| 16:15 | <XeryusTC> | after i build stations from a certain newgrf file |
| 16:15 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: i dont think he would have had that chance every time |
| 16:15 | <TrueBrain> | so it is really the building that caused the desync |
| 16:15 | <XeryusTC> | the stations were build, but were the default station when i rejoined |
| 16:16 | <TrueBrain> | XeryusTC: funny |
| 16:16 | <TrueBrain> | and the grfs of your client are 100% in sync with the server? |
| 16:16 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: well - i build nothing when it happened on my nightly :-) |
| 16:16 | <DaleStan> | Isn't newgrf sync guaranteed? |
| 16:16 | <TrueBrain> | dihedral: never confuse 2 desyncs |
| 16:16 | <dihedral> | TrueBrain: well now i know :-) |
| 16:16 | <@Bjarni> | dihedral: basically PPC OSX and the CPUs it uses are big endian (Apple used PPC 7xx and 9xx). PPC 4xx can switch to a little endian mode, but I don't think 7xx and 9xx can do that |
| 16:17 | <TrueBrain> | dihedral: if XeryusTC said it happened when he build something, it happens because of that. If you desync too, that can be a very different reason ;) |
| 16:17 | <XeryusTC> | TrueBrain: well, i could join the server, so it should be |
| 16:17 | <Rubidium> | DaleStan: not 100%; one could sneak in a different newgrf just after the checks have been done, but before the newgrfs are loaded. |
| 16:17 | <TrueBrain> | XeryusTC: should be and are, are 2 different worlds ;) |
| 16:17 | <TrueBrain> | someone could modify the client to give always the right md5 |
| 16:17 | <XeryusTC> | but, i deleted the directory and copied exes from another ottd copy and put the correct newgrfs and stuff in there |
| 16:17 | <XeryusTC> | and it worked again |
| 16:17 | <TrueBrain> | and I can think up some other clever things to avoid it :p |
| 16:17 | <XeryusTC> | might also be because i removed static newgrfs in that proces |
| 16:18 | <XeryusTC> | i also had this kind of thing before, but i dont know how to reproduce it |
| 16:18 | <TrueBrain> | so you currently have no way to reproduce? |
| 16:18 | <TrueBrain> | next time, copy your whole map which caused a desync reproducable, before starting to get it to work again ;) |
| 16:18 | <TrueBrain> | that is, if you want to be of any use to us ;) :p |
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| 16:19 | <dihedral> | what if overwriting newgrfs with their newer versions |
| 16:19 | <XeryusTC> | well, i will |
| 16:19 | <dihedral> | while the game is running |
| 16:19 | <TrueBrain> | XeryusTC: tnx ;) :) |
| 16:19 | <XeryusTC> | dihedral: doesnt matter if it was running |
| 16:19 | <TrueBrain> | dihedral: in theory the grf-specs are already in the memory |
| 16:19 | <dihedral> | well - it did not matter to my server... |
| 16:19 | <XeryusTC> | even after restarting the game it still happened |
| 16:19 | <TrueBrain> | the sprites aren't though |
| 16:19 | <dihedral> | sorry - it did matter to my server |
| 16:20 | <dihedral> | it was sending md5sums in the info packet that were never resolved to names |
| 16:21 | <dihedral> | or grfid's for that fact - not sure |
| 16:21 | <dihedral> | i extracted the ottdc update pack into the data dir of my server while it was running |
| 16:22 | <dihedral> | and issued a newgame |
| 16:22 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 16:22 | [~] | dihedral is bad |
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| 16:22 | <dihedral> | yes - i will admit that i was being lazy :-) |
| 16:23 | <dihedral> | any how - afaik - XeryusTC was not the only guy to have desynct a lot on that game |
| 16:23 | <dihedral> | there were a few desyncs the day before, by i-dont-know-who... :-( |
| 16:24 | <dihedral> | perhaps one could find them in the irc log file :) |
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| 16:27 | <dihedral> | well - night time for me |
| 16:28 | <dihedral> | @monologue |
| 16:28 | <dihedral> | shame :-) |
| 16:28 | <TrueBrain> | night dihedral :) |
| 16:28 | <mcbane> | night dihedral |
| 16:28 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: |
| 16:28 | <dihedral> | and thanks for answering that question i had :-) |
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| 16:29 | <SmatZ> | r11230 uses call to DeleteVehicleChain |
| 16:29 | <SmatZ> | where is |
| 16:29 | <SmatZ> | assert(v->type != VEH_TRAIN && v->type != VEH_ROAD); |
| 16:29 | <SmatZ> | it doesn't work for trains/rvs |
| 16:29 | <SmatZ> | but I wonder why |
| 16:29 | <SmatZ> | eg. current trunk ends in assert when deleting flooded vehicles |
| 16:30 | <SmatZ> | anyway - it says my patch was incorrect, too |
| 16:30 | <SmatZ> | probably |
| 16:34 | <SmatZ> | actually I see no reason why this assert is there |
| 16:37 | <Rubidium> | probably so-called histerical raisins |
| 16:40 | <Phazorx> | Can someone confirm if this is ttrs issue or sometihng else: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3568/coop7thmar2035ot7.png |
| 16:41 | <Phazorx> | http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6299/coop6thmay2036sq5.png & http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1940/coop17thjan2036xt8.png |
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| 16:42 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: first try to reproduce it with a somewhat smaller list of NewGRFs |
| 16:44 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: it hapepnds on a save with only first 3 |
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| 16:46 | <Rubidium> | and when you disable the other two, or move them around? |
| 16:47 | <Wolf01> | Phazorx, i confirm it, it happens with the firestation to me, sometimes with the hospital |
| 16:48 | <Phazorx> | game wont load if i disable pbi |
| 16:49 | <Rubidium> | anyhow, I'm gone |
| 16:49 | <Phazorx> | and rearranging has no effect |
| 16:49 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 21:57 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: glx * r11232 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10495): industry tile override works like house override, so handle it in the same way |
| 22:03 | |-| | fjb [~frank@p5485EC04.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 22:03 | <fjb> | hi |
| 22:04 | <fjb> | Anybody still awake? |
| 22:04 | <+glx> | I am but not for a long time ;) |
| 22:05 | <fjb> | I should be sleeping. But I got some problems with the new newindustries. |
| 22:05 | <DaleStan> | It generally works better to just ask the real question. Then you don't have to deal with the not-an-answer to your not-a-questions. |
| 22:06 | <fjb> | Be patient, my english is not that fast at this time. |
| 22:06 | <fjb> | I tried them out with Georges ECS-Sets. |
| 22:07 | <fjb> | I discovered that there are at most 23 indutries possible. |
| 22:09 | <fjb> | Which that are depend on the sequence the ECS vectors are loaded. |
| 22:10 | <fjb> | Eg: if the agriculture vector is loaded after the wood vector, then there are no woods in the game. |
| 22:13 | <fjb> | The problem occurs with the night builds 11208 and 11226. |
| 22:13 | <fjb> | The ECS vectors are the latest GRFs from Georges site. |
| 22:13 | <fjb> | Is this a known restriction? |
| 22:14 | <+glx> | did you check in ttdpatch? |
| 22:14 | <fjb> | Sorry, no Wndows here. |
| 22:14 | <fjb> | Windows |
| 22:14 | <DaleStan> | So? Patch works in wine too. |
| 22:14 | <DaleStan> | In fact, Patchman has no Windows either. |
| 22:15 | <fjb> | Ok, then I have to install wine tomorrow. |
| 22:23 | <+glx> | I just compared using same grfs in same order |
| 22:23 | <+glx> | I have 33 industries in ttdp and 32 in ottd |
| 22:24 | <fjb> | Oh, what is your order? I only got 23. |
| 22:24 | <+glx> | ordered by grfid |
| 22:25 | <+glx> | and I am in scenario editor |
| 22:30 | <fjb> | Thank you. Now I'm getting 32 too. Never looked at that id. |
| 22:31 | <fjb> | I also tryed it in the scenery editor. |
| 22:31 | <+glx> | but there's still a missing one :) |
| 22:31 | <fjb> | Which one is that? |
| 22:31 | <+glx> | tourist center |
| 22:32 | <+glx> | and some industries don't accept/produce the same in ttdp and ottd |
| 22:32 | <+glx> | more bugs to fix ;) |
| 22:32 | <fjb> | But at least it is mostly working. |
| 22:33 | <fjb> | Belugas did a great job. |
| 22:33 | [~] | glx needs to sleep :) |
| 22:33 | <+glx> | good night |
| 22:33 | |-| | glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] |
| 22:34 | <fjb> | Does a log of this conversation exist? Or do we have to fill in a bug report? |
| 22:34 | <fjb> | Anyway, I have to sleep, too. |
| 22:38 | <fjb> | good night |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Oct 09 00:00:36 2007 |
