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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-09

---Logopened Tue Oct 09 00:00:36 2007
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03:50<dihedral>morning ladies :-)
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04:10<TrueBrain>I refuse to call the rest of the people in this channel a lady! :p
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04:24<dihedral>TrueBrain: the "rest"? that means that you would call at least one person a lady, and seeing as this person remains unmentioned, i somewhat sounds as if you were addressing yourself :-)
04:24<dihedral>*it
04:27<TrueBrain>I was :p
04:27<TrueBrain>I call myself a lady many times a day
04:27<TrueBrain>but sadly for you guys, it has little to do with my gender
04:28<boekabart>TrueBrain: it's the fact that you like men?
04:28<boekabart>:)
04:28<TrueBrain>nah
04:28<boekabart>the way you walk?
04:28<boekabart>the way you talk?
04:28<TrueBrain>nope
04:28<TrueBrain>nope
04:29<TrueBrain>but I like how you think :p
04:42<Ailure>wtf
04:42<Ailure>I must been drunk
04:42<Ailure>Sometimes I attach a brake van, or caboose at the end of a train
04:42<Ailure>....seems like I attached a passenger train instead of a break van during a late night of openTTD as one of my trains have that
04:43<boekabart>Ailure: simple misclick
04:43<Ailure>without noticing?
04:43<Ailure>well ok it's a covered carriage truck actually
04:44<Ailure>but I didn't notice it until a few days after, after unpausing the damn game
04:44<Ailure>xD
04:44<Ailure>I sometimes have openTTD on all the time
04:44<Ailure>and just unpause and pause it whenever I feel like playing
04:48<Tefad>i've done that before
04:48<Tefad>one time i started the scenario editor and forgot
04:49<Tefad>came back to OMG TREES
04:51<Ailure>horny little buggers they are
04:51<Ailure>the trees
04:51<Ailure>even if you start with a empty map
04:51<Tefad>yup.
04:51<Ailure>by 2050, the whole map is covered by them
04:51<Ailure>I don't recall it being that crazy in TTO oO
04:51<Tefad>improved tree algorithms.
04:52<Ailure>could be toned down a bit though
04:52<Tefad>all i know is that it makes me piss off towns easier in late game
04:52<boekabart>isn't there this new industry that chops down trees in a circle/square around it?
04:52<Ailure>thinking about the tropic sawmill?
04:52<Tefad>OH NOES, YOU KILLED TEN TREES. YOU CAN'T BUILD THAT STATION NOW.
04:52<Ailure>:P
04:53<Ailure>The temperate sawmill had a funny bug once though
04:53<Ailure>where it acted like a tropical sawmill
04:53<Ailure>my friends thought it was a new feature :)
04:53<Tefad>hah
04:57<Ailure>heh
04:57<Ailure>funny how they work diffrently
04:58<Ailure>then I guess the temperate forest "industry" is supposed to be a tree plantation
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05:43<fjb>hi
05:45<TrueBrain>hi
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05:52<fjb>Strage things happen with the new newindustries...
05:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm sure you can be less specific than that...
05:54<fjb>I try. :-)
05:54<fjb>I tried them with Georges ECS vector GRFs.
05:55<fjb>The number of Industries you get depends on the sequence in wich the GRFs get loaded.
05:55<Tefad>vector grf?
05:55<Tefad>oh.
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05:56<fjb>http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/downloads.html
05:56<fjb>My english is not that great, sorry.
05:57<Eddi|zuHause2>!openttd commit 11191
05:57<_42_>Commit by glx :: r11191 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-10-01 18:59:25 UTC)
05:57<_42_>-Fix [FS#1227]: GLS_ACTIVATION stage must be done immediatly after GLS_RESERVE stage, before the GLS_RESERVE stage for the next newgrf.
05:57<Eddi|zuHause2>that commit also caused grf order problems for me
05:58<Eddi|zuHause2>i had to turn around alpine grf and dbsetxl, else i get wrong graphics for refit options
05:58<fjb>glx was here last night and I told him about my problems with the sequence of the ECS GRFs.
05:59<fjb>The things that get produced ba an industry also depend on the loadings sequence of the GRFs.
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06:17<SpComb>http://pb.paivola.fi/298 <-- mm...
06:18<SpComb>load risen a bit
06:18<SpComb>although the way I understand it, openttd doesn't use any CPU when paused?
06:19<Eddi|zuHause2>smells like a dual core processor
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06:19<Tefad>SpComb: i think it uses very little if any.
06:20<Eddi|zuHause2>well, it has to occasionally check if you unpaused it
06:20<fjb> PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU COMMAND
06:20<fjb>41478 frank 3 20 0 34880K 27228K kserel 3:51 0.00% openttd
06:20<SpComb> no, it smells like a rather warm single-core processor
06:21<fjb>It uses no visible cpu load when it is pasused.
06:21<SpComb>then pausing them game when there aren't any clients would be a solution
06:21<fjb>paused
06:21<SpComb>or would it be better to have some other kind of pause/unpause logic??
06:21<Tefad>Eddi|zuHause2: does it check or does it receive mouseover events?
06:21<Eddi|zuHause2>there is a game option that automatically pauses the server, if less than X clients are connected
06:22<Tefad>oh. dedicated?
06:22<Tefad>meh
06:22<Eddi|zuHause2>Tefad: in any case, there must be running a loop checking for events
06:22<fjb>I did never play a multiuser game yet. What happens when there are no clients connected?
06:23<boekabart>fjb: depends on server configuration. It can pause itself
06:23<fjb>The loop doesn't have to use much cpu time. You don't do busy waiting nowadays.
06:24<Tefad>Eddi|zuHause2: meh, i forget this game uses low level languages
06:24<Tefad>yay message loops.
06:24<fjb>boekabart: Thank you. That would be great when the players are sleeping. Else it would be 100 years later when they awake in the morning (or whenever).
06:25<SpComb> the dedicated server uses CPU even with no clients connected
06:25<SpComb>probably ticking the game state along
06:25<boekabart>SpComb: yes, they are probably not paused then
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06:31[~]SpComb wonders what the effects in terms of gameplay are if the server remains paused when no clients are connected
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06:32<fjb>It's like when you put your Monopoly aside to eat a pizza before you resume playing. :-)
06:32<Tefad>yeah really
06:32<Tefad>it just sits there waiting for connections
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06:35<fjb>When does electrified rail cost as much as ordinary rail?
06:39<SpComb> I mean, does it make the server less useable for playing on, or more?
06:39<SpComb>the WLAN here is absolutely horrible
06:39<dihedral|lunch>then try WLAN over there
06:40<SpComb>I'm not sure what it is, but TCP/SSH goes completely stuck
06:40<dihedral|lunch>reception?
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06:44<SpComb>it's not just a bad signal, ICMP ping to the gateway is pretty stable at 2-17ms
06:44<SpComb>but somehow TCP connections just get stuck for minutes at a time every so often
06:45<SpComb>you can open a new SSH session once the previous one gets stuck and screen -dr, it's faster than just waiting...
06:45<SpComb>then you use the new session, and after about ten minutes the stuck session wakes up and detaches
06:47<SpComb>oh, and the network is built out of a couple dozen of those cheapest possible D-Link switches
06:47<boekabart>SpComb: that probably has nothing to do with it :)
06:47<gfldex>try a flood ping
06:47<gfldex>and look at packet loss
06:48<SpComb>the wired network is fabulous, though, esp. Trinet, the student organization's network that's available in the accomodations
06:48<Tefad>ok, i know my friend has a netgear switch that sucks at ssh over the wan port
06:48<Tefad>er switch.. wifi router i mean
06:49<SpComb>myottd.net's hosted from underneath my bed via Trinet
06:49<Tefad>hah nice
06:49<boekabart>SpComb: I'm sure that's allowed by their usage policy :)
06:49<SpComb>it is
06:49<boekabart>and the server humming doesn't keep you awake?
06:49<SpComb>no, but the UPS does :/
06:49<+glx><SpComb> ... cheapest possible D-Link switches <-- like DES-1008D ?
06:49<SpComb>it's a temporary arrangement
06:49<Tefad>BOOP BOOP BOOP
06:50<SpComb>ugh, not switches, I mean WLAN access points
06:50<Tefad>yeah, wifi in general seems to be flaky all around
06:50<SpComb>the only Trinet policy is 15GB/week upload, you can pay 5 euros a month for a static IP + yourhostname.kyla.fi reverse, but the default DHCP reservation never really changes
06:51<SpComb>outgoing tcp port 25 is just about the only blocked port, even incoming port 25 is fine
06:51<Tefad>antispam
06:51<SpComb>indeed, you need to send mail through smtp.kyla.fi, but that's a very sensible policy
06:55<SpComb>it's possible to set up a working Wi-Fi network, but it takes a lot more than just buying a bunch of the cheapest possible APs and sticking them onto windowsills
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07:28<fjb>frosch123: You are from Clausthal?
07:30<frosch123>yup
07:31<frosch123>Why do you ask?
07:31<fjb>I studied there some years ago.
07:32<fjb>I'm still visiting friends there every few weeks.
07:32[~]SpComb is on his fifth/sixth week at Helsinki University of Technology
07:33<frosch123>Ok, I expected you would talk about beer.
07:34<fjb>No. :-)
07:34<frosch123>*is on his third/fourth last month at Clausthal University of Technology :p
07:34<frosch123>err /me
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08:02<huma>oi ttders :)
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08:20<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i have a feeling, waypoint orders do not properly update after relocating the waypoint
08:24<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause2: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=24703&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=YAPF&start=220 <- something like that?
08:25<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, something like that
08:27<Eddi|zuHause2>the strange part is, they drive to the waypoint, but then do not switch the order
08:29<Phazorx>hmm, ECS Tourists vector is a bit bugged still?
08:32<@Belugas>ecstown, by the way... not ecstourists
08:32<@Belugas>and let say that it is a strange vector
08:33<@Belugas>but... you did not mentionned what makes you think it is still bugged
08:33<@Belugas>nor is it the support for the grf or the grf itself which is bugged
08:35<Phazorx>Belugas: if i use combination of vectors
08:35<Phazorx>like all
08:35<Phazorx>tourists centre isn/t there
08:35<@Belugas>we know
08:35<Phazorx>so back to question, it is still bugged?
08:35<@Belugas>although we currrently do not know why
08:36<Phazorx>or there is a workaround?
08:36<Phazorx>ahh
08:36<Eddi|zuHause2>alpine ore is still not subject to freight multiplier, and i do not know if that is a grf or an ottd bug
08:36<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause2: that's inetresting
08:37<Phazorx>is there a list of abbriviations used for cargo translated into their names somewhere?
08:37<Phazorx>and detailed description of constuction vector
08:37<@Belugas>not that i know of for last question
08:38[~]dihedral|work greets Belugas
08:38<@Belugas>first question, maybe on ttdepatch wiki, i remember there is a section for ecs
08:38[~]Belugas waves at Diabolic-Angel
08:38[~]Belugas waves at dihedral|work
08:38<dihedral|work>lol
08:38<@Belugas>gaaaa
08:38<dihedral|work>that was hitting tap a little too early :-D
08:38<Phazorx>the basic vector also says it mods power plants... and i recall seeing it do so in ttdp, not the case for ottd?
08:39<+glx>basic doesn't do it alone
08:40<Phazorx>glx: perhaps it is a combination, but since i had all ECS vectors enabled - power plant should have been producing soemthing
08:40<+glx>yes sulfur in ttdp but we don't know yet why it doesn't in ottd
08:40<Phazorx>and reason why i asked about construction vector - brickworks take coa and dont take clay
08:40<Phazorx>glx: ahh i see
08:41<Phazorx>also another thing i mentioned - probably grf related - brewery and dock placement on generation stage
08:42<Phazorx>breweries are jam packed in same sity in amounts of 3-6 per, and docks are placed on water tiles, where they obviously sink right away
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08:56<Eddi|zuHause2>i think the waypoint bug only applies if the waypoint order is the current order, if you skipped it once, it seems to work fine
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08:56<|frank|>Moin
09:02<Eddi|zuHause2>oh, and i just noticed: "dbg: [yapf] Invalid v->dest_tile == 0x1222E5 (train 65, player 0)"
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause2>and two dozens more of those
09:03<|frank|>Loks like that train got really lost. :-)
09:03<|frank|>Looks
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09:30<Phazorx>hmm... i see 2 kinds of iron ore in ECS, not sure what vector brings them
09:30<Phazorx>but is it normal?
09:30<hylje>:o
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09:33<@Belugas>we are pretty new to the ecs joys
09:33<@Belugas>who knows
09:34<Phazorx>http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6458/screenshothq7.png
09:34<Phazorx>Belugas: i understand that... but you been messing around with NI/NC much mroe than i did
09:34<Phazorx>and perhaps have a better idea
09:35<Phazorx>and 2 kinds of steel mill
09:36<@Belugas>true, but not to the same scale as you. Mixing all those sets togueter was never part of my schedule. ONly one or two at the same time...
09:36<@Belugas>and knowing waht they do
09:36<@Belugas>was not necessary to add all them up
09:36<@Belugas>or so did i though
09:36<Phazorx>well differet combinations create different results obviously
09:37<Phazorx>in terms of A + B is not same as placing set A and set B industries
09:37<Phazorx>some are becoming interconnected
09:37<Phazorx>but kinda strange, i got dual iron and steel after trying to deal with sulfur byrestarting with disbaled chemical vector
09:38<hylje>:o
09:38<@Belugas>hylje, your comments are more than helpfull... lol
09:39<@Belugas>pikka stuff is less tortuous, i have to admit
09:39<Phazorx>seems like hylje's jaw been missing for a while too
09:39<Phazorx>Belugas: yeah, newcargo seemed to work fine too (at elast brewery/petrol part)
09:41<hylje>the jaw is at most loosely connected
09:43<@Belugas>so it seems :D
09:43<@Belugas>at elast we know you're not a ghost ;)
09:44<@Belugas>ECS basically adjusts itself with the different grf been loaded
09:44<@Belugas>seems like there are some tests been done that are not correctly performed
09:44<@Belugas>dunno
09:45<@Belugas>0lus the fact that the loading and enabling of industries (override/substiture) may have some promlems
09:45<@Belugas>you do understant why 0.6 was not yet rbough to you :D
09:46<hylje>in other words newindustries is a huge kludge ;)
09:48<Phazorx>okay most bane of ECS seems to be basic one
09:48<Phazorx>which we should probably bring to george
09:48<@Belugas>instant poll... is last hylje's comment subject to a kick?
09:48<@Belugas>yes/no
09:48<Phazorx>no, we like hylje :)
09:49<hylje>truebrain might want to differ
09:49<Phazorx>Belugas: is thre sometihng funky about basic specificaly?
09:49<@Belugas>so no willbe :)
09:49<TrueBrain>@kick hylje I like kicking any day
09:49|-|hylje kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [I like kicking any day]
09:50<Phazorx>i guess hylje asked for that by highlighing
09:50<@Belugas>depens on your level of funkiness, Phazorx
09:50<TrueBrain>Phazorx: yup, his mistake
09:50<Phazorx>Belugas: if all 7 are enabled - basic aside of bringing lots of things also kills tourists centre
09:51<Phazorx>power plant does nto produce anything in any combination (it is part of basic)
09:51<Phazorx>with disabled chemical basic introduces secondary steel mill and ore mine (default colours and settings)
09:52<Phazorx>npw all that applies only to temperate so far
09:52<Phazorx>have not tried other climates
09:53<Phazorx>w/o basic i seems to have 25 working industries
09:55<Phazorx>this might be interface thing for editor, but - produces/accepts/requires in editor seems to be narroed down to produces/requires
09:55<Phazorx>like it states oil rigs require pax/mail
09:55<Phazorx>and many other industries requre vehicles
09:56<fjbAWAY>I got 32 industries. How many you get depends on the sequence in which the GRFs get loaded.
09:56|-|fjbAWAY changed nick to fjb
09:56<@Belugas>industries can only produce or accept. The requirment is just a matter of callback magic
09:56<fjb>I installed the 8 GRFs from George.
09:57<@Belugas>what saddens me is that there can be so many more loaded :(
09:57<fjb>Interchanging the loading sequence gives totally diffent kombinations of availlable industries and the thinks that a single industry produces also change.
09:58<@Belugas>because evaluations are done while loading
09:58<@Belugas>so order is crucial
09:58<@Belugas>in ttdp as well as in ottd.
09:59<@Belugas>same mechanism, just different engines
09:59<fjb>But it is really annoying if there are no forrests in a game. :-)
10:00<@Belugas>did not said the engine was running fine :P
10:00<@Belugas>sadly
10:00<fjb>But at least new industries are usable.
10:00<Phazorx>that means basic and wood mixed fjb
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10:01<hylje>i knew it
10:01<Phazorx>and i can get 32 but tourist centre and sulphur is missing then
10:01<fjb>You can mix basic and wood, if wood is loaded after basic.
10:01<Phazorx>w/o basic it looks complete and functional
10:01<@Belugas>although ecs is really well done, i prefer pikka. i think it is better integrated in the overall look ot the original game
10:01<Phazorx>fjb: what i mean lack of forests means you loaded wood before basic
10:02<Phazorx>Belugas: there are massive gfx glitches with ecs
10:04<fjb>And I prefer the DBset and Long Vehicles. Don't know if that works with Pikkas industries.
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10:04<Rubidium>sorry for saying, but ECS sucks from the beginning already. Quite a few of the graphics totally do not fit TTD (same as the Long (hyper glitchy) Vehicles)
10:04<TrueBrain>hylje: no, you asked for it
10:05<Phazorx>well i'd like to see ERVS working and looking as nice as LV4 does
10:05<Phazorx>fjb: bs doesnt work with ECS
10:05<hylje>TrueBrain: hence i knew it
10:05<TrueBrain>fair enough
10:06<@Belugas>I agree with Rubidium (but i would not use "Sucks" hehe) but one thing that is interesting about ECS is the complexity of the processes
10:06<Phazorx>a tourist centre between potash mine 2 refineries and cement works
10:06<fjb>It is graet that new industries are working so far. But it would be even better if more than one set would be working well.
10:06<Phazorx>that is a concetration camp pretty much
10:07<hylje>Phazorx: those pesky tiurists
10:07<hylje>s/ti/to/
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10:08<fjb>Maybe they are all indutry bosses, loving to see people work for them. :-)
10:08<fjb>industry
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10:12<Phazorx>well scratch that comment about basic being the only issue
10:12<Phazorx>cement works seems to be tropic only
10:12<Phazorx>although cement requiring industries are in temperate?
10:12|-|mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
10:12<Phazorx>that is a bit weird though
10:14<Rubidium>Phazorx: have you tested the exact same setup in TTDP?
10:14<Phazorx>Rubidium: negative
10:14<Phazorx>i should tohugh
10:14<Rubidium>well... so you don't know whether it is OTTD or ECS
10:14<fjb>glx tested the setup against TTDP last nicht.
10:15<Phazorx>Rubidium: i'd put my bets on ECS
10:15<fjb>There are always 33 industries in TTDP and the industries produce always the same things (but different from what they produce in OpenTTD now).
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10:18<Phazorx>fjb: try to start w/o basic vectore and check 2 kinds of steel mill and 2 kinds of ore mines
10:18<Phazorx>they looks the same btu they dont produce same tihng
10:19<fjb>Waht di they produce?
10:19<fjb>do
10:20<Phazorx>2 different kinds of ore apparently
10:20<Phazorx>and one mines requries vehicles
10:20<Phazorx>and one of steelmills is coal based
10:20<fjb>Funny :-)
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10:22<dihedral|work>Phazorx: did the dev server crash again? or did that not happen again?
10:22|-|Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-144-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:22<dihedral|work>curious to know what happned
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10:22<Phazorx>never happened since i gdb'ed it
10:23<Phazorx>another bohre bug
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10:23<+glx>heisenbug
10:23<dihedral|work>shame
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10:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11233 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1303]: handle some wrong written station NewGRFs a little more gracefully than segfaulting.
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10:34<Phazorx>hmm... does ttdp nighty has speacial ttdbasew grf?
10:35<@Belugas>not 1005 sure, but i think so.
10:35<@Belugas>look in ttdp-general section of ttdp forums
10:35<@Belugas>i think it is referenced there
10:35<@Belugas>but dont' take it as cash
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10:42<frosch123>Does someone know, if ssh automatically closes idle connections after some time?
10:42<Rubidium>it shouldn't
10:44<Phazorx>sshd settings can drop idle conenctions
10:44<Phazorx>Belugas: cement can be placed in ttdp on temperate
10:44<Phazorx>w/ or w/o basic
10:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11234 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1312]: the explosion vehicles were placed too far to the south.
10:52<fjb>I could buy a cement work in temperate (if I had that much money).
10:53<fjb>The fishing grouds are entitled oil rigs.
10:53<Phazorx>fjb they both are there
10:54<fjb>How do I go fishing anyway?
10:54<Phazorx>and for cement thing apparently you need a rainforest
10:54<dihedral|work>go fish :-)
10:55<fjb>Fish don't have legs. They are not able to go. :-P
10:55<@Belugas>fjb, iirc, you should use a ship, refitted for fish
10:55<@Belugas>Phazorx: is it good or bad?
10:55<Phazorx>Belugas: ottd behavoir is different from ttdp
10:55[~]dihedral|work waves at Belugas
10:56<fjb>Oh, ships are not invented yet. We need more ingeneers.
10:56<dihedral|work>:-D
10:56<Phazorx>and ttd doea not require rainforset in temperate for cement works
10:56<fjb>And where did my sulpfur go?
10:57<fjb>sulphur
10:57<Phazorx>fjb: basic set hides it
10:57<Phazorx>by forgetting to mod power plants
10:57<@Belugas>i guess you should start to lay down on paper you conclusions, with list/order of grf loaded, landscape, ttdp/ottd behaviours
10:57<Phazorx>Belugas: that sounds liek abug report
10:58<@Belugas>agreed. that is why, since you have so many already, you shold start at laying them down
10:58<@Belugas>the hell if i'll grab the logs...
10:58<fjb>It should all be in the logs. :-)
10:59<@Belugas>ho no... no way....
10:59<@Belugas>way too many lines for that
10:59<@Belugas>sorry...
10:59<@Belugas>i'm stilla t work, you know?
10:59<@Belugas>so... use the proper tool
11:00<fjb>No time. I have to play to find more bugs. :-)
11:00<fjb>And carrying around the new goods is so much fun.
11:00<fjb>:-)
11:01<@Belugas>too bad. no time to fix, too much involved at work
11:01<fjb>Ok, we have to fill in bug report then.
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11:02<Rubidium>oh noes, that means that Belugas will be busying doing his work till like 23:00 CEST
11:06<@Belugas>pretty much, yes...
11:08<dihedral|work>be back later, on my way home :-)
11:09|-|dihedral|work changed nick to dihedral|away
11:09<@Belugas>Phazorx, you forgot to mention the ecs's versions
11:10<@Belugas>unless you imply those from george's page
11:10<Phazorx>they are and dates are visible in the list on screenshots
11:10<Phazorx>i did submit wrong screenshot from ttdp though
11:11<Phazorx>it is misisng basic
11:11<Phazorx>i tryed w/ and w/o it on both platforms and ttdp worked and ottd didnt in both cases
11:11<@Belugas>gaaaa.... you are right..
11:11<@Belugas>apologies
11:14<Phazorx>i added proper screenie from ttdp now
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11:19<Ailure>I wonder if there's some kind of conspriancy
11:20<Ailure>with newindustries getting finished a week before my exams
11:20<fjb>Only one kind?
11:20<Ailure>:)
11:20<Ailure>Not like I have much to study on though, I don't feel behind.
11:20<Sacro>w00t, MSDNAA is back :D
11:20<fjb>It's not finished. Bellugas got the first bug report some minutes ago. :-)
11:20<Ailure>finished as in
11:21<Ailure>finished enough to make PBI playable
11:21<Ailure>:P
11:21<Ailure>I will try out the other newindustries newGRF's after this game though
11:21<fjb>Don't do it. It's really too much fun.
11:21<Ailure>too late
11:21<Ailure>at 1938 already
11:21<Vikthor>fjb: Actually I have reported one bug on Friday
11:21<Ailure>the game is definatly more challanging
11:22[~]Sacro doesnloads MSDN Library April 07
11:22<Ailure>I thought I would hate it
11:22<fjb>Oh, ok, I missed that bug report, sorry.
11:22<Ailure>but the concept of a limited supply is actually somewhat neat
11:22<Sacro>I will be starting a server later i reckon
11:22<Ailure>and coal dosen't seem to be as overly awesome
11:22<Ailure>in PBI
11:22<Ailure>as it used to be
11:22<Sacro>probably Brianetta's Standard GRF set with Pikka's industries
11:22<Sacro>and maybe a couple of other grfs
11:22<Ailure>that probably something which bothered me in orginal game
11:23<Ailure>it's all about the coal
11:23<Phazorx>you can get ECS not to have coal at all
11:23<Ailure>I want coal
11:23<Ailure>but I want it somewhat nerfed too
11:23<Ailure>:P
11:24<fjb>Planes are great at the later stages of the game. But a Zeppelin is also cool. :-)
11:24<Ailure>yup
11:24<Phazorx>planes ewww
11:24<Ailure>I always wind up using the airship at least once
11:24<Ailure>in my game
11:25<Ailure>rather amusing that it makes a helicopter sound
11:25<fjb>That doen't happen in TTDP, I have been told.
11:26<Ailure>yeah I heard that too
11:26<Ailure>I would check it out in TTDP
11:26|-|Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-198-255.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:26<Ailure>...if my orginal TTD+TTDpatch installation was copied correctly :/
11:26<fjb>I could not get sound working at all yet. But I didn't miss it either.
11:26<Ailure>for some reason, the TTD binary is missing in my TTD install
11:26<Ailure>I have no idea how that happened :)
11:27<fjb>Hm, not much luck playing without that binary.
11:27<Phazorx>Ailure: previous exam preparation measures probably :)
11:27<Ailure>or me screwing something up
11:27<Phazorx>Belugas: with same set of ECS vectotrs ttdp does not have dual iron/dual steel :|
11:27<Ailure>whne copying files from my old computer :P
11:28<Phazorx>owen can help you :)
11:29<Phazorx>and cannery is missing in that case
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11:45<Wolf01>hello
11:49<huma>hiya
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11:58<fjb>Moin
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11:59<huma>Bjarni: hi
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12:03<@Bjarni>hi channel
12:04|-|Grey [~Greyscale@host86-134-221-223.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
12:06<Sacro>hi Bjarni
12:08<Amixosx>Bjarni: hey
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12:09<huma>Amixosx: using mac?
12:10<Amixosx>atm yes
12:15<fjb>Bye
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12:19<Amixosx>looks like snow tomorrow night
12:19|-|SR-UNA [~una@0x55536ae4.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
12:19<Amixosx>will melt during morning,.. but wow.. i love snow ;)
12:20<SR-UNA>Hi guys, i just found OpenTTD today :D god i love it, i used to play tycoon for hours years back
12:21<hylje>great
12:21<hylje>a content user
12:21<hylje>what did we do :(
12:22<@Belugas>lol
12:22<@Belugas>we?
12:22<@Belugas>heheh
12:22<@Belugas>nice to hear SR-UNA :)
12:22<TrueBrain>You broke the Internet!
12:22<@Belugas>and welcome
12:26<Amixosx>SR-UNA: nice
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12:26<Amixosx>what sort of os do you run it on?
12:26<SR-UNA>Win :)
12:26<SR-UNA>(XP)
12:27<Amixosx>ahh
12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: miham * r11235 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt dutch.txt hungarian.txt italian.txt):
12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-09 19:28:02
12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 1 fixed by tperic (1)
12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 3 fixed by habell (3)
12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by miham (1)
12:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 1 fixed by lorenzodv (1)
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12:37<Tyr_Arcana>hiya all, I'm trying to find out the status of the symbian series 60 port, is it playable? where can I find it?
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12:38<Rubidium>I've never heard of it
12:38<@Bjarni>heh, I just wondered what it could be
12:38<@Bjarni>the only word I know in that name is symbian
12:39<Tyr_Arcana>lol, s60 is a smartphone platform
12:39<@Bjarni>so... no official port ;)
12:39<@Bjarni>but feel free to make one
12:39<@Bjarni>if you can get GCC, sdl and stuff for it, then it should be fairly easy to do
12:39<Tyr_Arcana>lol, I would, if I had time/energy/need/etc
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12:40<@Bjarni>if you don't have the need, then why do you ask for it?
12:40<dihedral>hej hej
12:40<Tyr_Arcana>I'm sure I remember seeing a port listed as being in development by someone
12:41<Tyr_Arcana>lol, its an addiction, not a need =P
12:44<@Bjarni> <Tyr_Arcana> I'm sure I remember seeing a port listed as being in development by someone <-- some company in the Philippines did port it, but we aren't related to those guys in any way. They download the source from us (they can due to GPL) and then they release a modified version of it
12:44<@Bjarni>and if you donate money to them, it will be for those guys only and we never see any of it
12:44<@Bjarni>even though it says "donate for OpenTTD"
12:44<@Bjarni>:s
12:46<dihedral>tried it?
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12:47<@Bjarni>I have seen it on a phone at uni
12:47<@Bjarni>it has issues with the screen size
12:47<dihedral>lol
12:47<dihedral>i actaully meant - tried donating :-D
12:47<@Bjarni>as we hardcoded a minimum 640 screen width
12:49<@Bjarni>well, I mean if you click the donate link, it will not go to our paypal account, but another one (presumably theirs)
12:50<dihedral>and will they donate some of that then to OpenTTD?
12:50<dihedral>:-P
12:50<@Bjarni>AFAIK we never got anything from them
12:50<dihedral>send them an email about that :-D
12:51<@Bjarni>we already did
12:51<@Bjarni>sort of
12:51<@Bjarni>I don't think they like getting Emails from us
12:51<dihedral>lol
12:52<@Bjarni>the company is known to try to make money on software made by other people
12:52<@Bjarni>looks like it's not located on the Philippines for nothing
12:52<dihedral>heh
12:52<dihedral>why not release openttd under lgpl?
12:52<dihedral>:-P
12:54<@Bjarni>we can only change that if we get written permission from everybody who ever wrote anything that has ever been committed
12:54<@Bjarni>which is kind of a big task
12:56<dihedral>yep
12:56<dihedral>it will only ever get a bigger task the longer you wait :-P
12:57<@Bjarni>lol
12:57<@Bjarni>the TV news just wrote about a person from "Findland"
12:57<@Bjarni>FinDland.....
12:57|-|Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd
12:57<@Bjarni>speak of the devil
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12:58<@Bjarni>how can you trust news reporters, who can't even spell?
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13:01[~]Tyr_Arcana remembers this window and reads the history about that philippines company
13:03<Tyr_Arcana>hmm... ah well, it'd be tricky to play without a mouse anyway
13:04<dihedral>would it?
13:04<@Bjarni>would it?
13:04<@Bjarni>it appeared to work ok when it comes to the mouse pointer
13:04<@Bjarni>the resolution sucks though
13:04<Tyr_Arcana>I think so, but I've not really tried
13:05<Tyr_Arcana>then again, a friend thought I must be finding it weird having only one mouse button (being on a mac usually), but then I pointed out that the cursor keys scroll, and I use them for website scrolling all the time, so its natural for me
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13:06<Tyr_Arcana>everyone is different, which is the first thing one must learn when writing interfaces
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13:15<Tyr_Arcana>anyways, thanx for the info, I'm off now, gotta cook for my flatmates
13:16<Prof_Frink>s/for //
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13:17<Prof_Frink>Bah, that fails
13:20<TrueBrain>yeah, Half-Life: Orange Box is released :) (for xbox) How cool :)
13:21<@Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Bah, that fails <-- you don't know what he is going to cook right now
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14:02<Wolf01>how does the ECS industries set work? can i load more than one of those sets at once?
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14:12<+glx>Wolf01: yes you can
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14:13<Wolf01>i loaded some of them and i can see only tourists and banks
14:15<+glx>order matters
14:15<Wolf01>uhm
14:15<Wolf01>i'll never understand it
14:16<Wolf01>maybe a little readme can be usefull.. is like the sims when you want to install the 2131241 expansions
14:21<Phazorx>order grfs same as grfid
14:22<Phazorx>thay way you only have power plant and cement works not working
14:24<Wolf01>and a good vehicle set for ECS?
14:26<Phazorx>lv4/nars
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14:26<Phazorx>i think that si close to only, rather than good
14:26<Phazorx>and you ened latest lv4
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14:56<mcbane>heh 102% of the estimated 4000k litres transported.. =P
14:56<+glx>it was an estimation ;)
14:57<mcbane>102%?
14:57<hylje>:>
14:57<+glx>4000k
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14:57<hylje>you're very efficient
14:58<mcbane>using ukrs industries.
14:58<mcbane>but shouldnt the oilwell close down when all oil is transported..
15:00<mcbane>or is it confused by using the transfer other oil.
15:00<Rubidium>mcbane: it is an estimate; if you do not know what the word means, you should look it up in a dictionary
15:01<@Belugas>mcbane: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32137&start=40
15:01<mcbane>geschätzt in german
15:02<Rubidium>mcbane: you should teach your client UTF-8
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15:18<Rexxie>anyone here have any experience with JBOD?
15:19<Rubidium>as in RAID-0-ish?
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15:21<Rexxie>yep
15:21<Rubidium>absolutely not
15:21<Rubidium>only a little with RAID-5 ;)
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15:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11236 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#1322]: DeleteVehicleChain can just work as good for all vehicles, instead of not allowing trains to use it (enforced by an assert), but actually using it for trains. Patch by SmatZ.
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16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11237 /trunk/src/ (rail.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp slope.h): -Codechange: reduce code duplication between GetRailFoundation() and CheckRailSlope(). Patch by frosch.
16:14<Ihmemies>jbod raid0, sounds like.. win
16:14<Ihmemies>i use raid1, because i was too cheap to buy a proper raid5 controller :P
16:15<Ailure>r11229 rubidium 2007-10-08 22:06:37 +0200 (Mon, 08 Oct 2007) 2 lines
16:15<Ailure>-Fix [FS#1307]: one could sell vehicles that were crashed in a depot, which would still yield money.
16:15<Ailure>I'm trying to figure how a train can be inside a depot while crashed
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16:15<boekabart>Ailure: flooded depot
16:17<Ailure>ahhh
16:17<Ailure>I guess
16:17<Ailure>I seen that happening in a flood
16:17<boekabart>IRL?
16:17<boekabart>;)
16:17<Ailure>no in the game
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16:17<Ailure>before a train could stop a flood
16:18<Ailure>now it still can stop a flood, but only for a few seconds :P
16:19<boekabart>I think we should have smth like a 'walhalla depot' (not @ map) where dead trains go , so you can clone them even if you're not fast enough. Once you have this, you can make flooded vehicles disappear instantaneously.
16:20<boekabart>(of course, not only for trains, but for all vehicles)
16:20<Ailure>I dunno
16:20<Ailure>flooded trains usually disapear too fast for the player to react
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16:20<boekabart>which is still too slow
16:22<Ailure>yep
16:22<Ailure>it looks rather silly when a train get's flooded
16:22<Ailure>it explodes and stays there for a bit, protecting the rails in meanwhile
16:23<Sionide>but making it look nicer would use up valuable GRF space...
16:23<Ailure>it does?
16:23<Ailure>Thought I guess it would be tricky to program
16:23<Ailure>:p
16:23<Rubidium>ofcourse...
16:24<Rubidium>everything that uses sprites
16:24<Ailure>I meant, I could imagine a somewhat better looking flood
16:24<Ihmemies>code it in 3d!
16:24<Rubidium>we don't have, in contrary to TTDP a sprite range for different types of sprites
16:24<Ailure>would have the train derail like it does when exploding
16:24<Ailure>but without turning black
16:24<Ailure>and the rail below it being flooded too
16:24<Ailure>but that might even require engine changes
16:24<Ailure>far more than it would be worth
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16:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11238 /trunk/src/waypoint.cpp: -Fix [FS#1316]: the orders of trains going to a waypoint where not updated when the waypoint would be moved.
16:33<Wolf01>'night
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16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r11239 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10495): don't do cargo translation when loading grfs, but do it once all grfs are loaded. This ensure correct accept/produced cargo when a grf uses cargo defined in a grf loaded after itself
16:41<Phazorx>glx
16:41<Phazorx>is that ECS related
16:41<+glx>yes
16:42<+glx>now power station accepts/produces what it should
16:42<Phazorx>can you elaborate a bit on what exactly it affects?
16:42<Phazorx>ah... thank you
16:42<Phazorx>i wonder if dual ore/mill thing is gone now too
16:42<Phazorx>however doesnt sound too relevant
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16:54<Ailure>heh
16:54<Ailure>there's still a 0.4.8 server up
16:54<Ailure>probably forgotton about
16:54<Ailure>I remember seeing 0.3.X servers for not too long ago
17:00<mcbane>and nighlies >r10000
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17:50<dihedral>g'night
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18:11<SmatZ>good night
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18:11<mcbane>night
18:11|-|mcbane changed nick to mcbane_sleep
18:16<Phazorx>pings to openttd.org time out :(
18:23<Sacro>ye[
18:23<Sacro>*yep
18:25<@orudge>yes
18:25<@orudge>network downtime for an upgrade
18:25<@orudge>it's a bit annoying
18:25<@orudge>but shouldn't be more than maybe 20 minutes
18:39<Phazorx>still no pings
18:39<Phazorx>1395 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss
18:40<Sionide>patience Phazorx!
18:41<Sionide>"you've got to build bypasses! [do upgrades]!"
18:41<@orudge>yes
18:41<@orudge>well
18:41<@orudge>there's nothing I can do about it, alas
18:41<@orudge>it's annoying me much more than any of you :p
18:41<@orudge>but one just has to wait
18:42<@orudge>ah
18:42<@orudge>there we go
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18:43<Phazorx>svn still isnt up...
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18:44<@orudge>yes it is
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18:48<Amixosx>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE256BYskXQ
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18:55<Digitalfox>Hello
18:56<Amixosx>hey
18:56<Phazorx>Amixosx is hoping admins are asleep?
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19:00<Sacro>orudge: can you ban Amixosx please :)
19:00<Sacro>actually, Bjarni is online quite late
19:01<Digitalfox>TrueBrain or Rubidium, i was reading the changelog of Flyspray, and i noticed that it's running 0.9.8 when the last version is 0.9.9.3.. I understand how hard it is to always have our software running the last build, but the 0.9.8 is from 23 October 2005, and some new versions are available from this year, so time for a little update? Or is there some compatibility problem / no free time...
19:01<Digitalfox>...for update? :)
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19:01<Amixosx>what have i done?
19:02<Amixosx>i am so nice
19:02<Amixosx>you bad people
19:02<Amixosx>shame on you
19:02<Sacro>you posted a youtube link
19:02<Sacro>that == ban
19:02<Amixosx>ban?
19:02<Sacro>read the topic
19:02<Digitalfox>Sacro: It does :|
19:02<Digitalfox>?
19:02<Amixosx>i posted a nice youtube link
19:02<Sacro>Digitalfox: yep
19:03<Amixosx>now thats difference from youtube clips that dosent make sense
19:03|-|Belugas_Gone changed nick to Belugas
19:03<Digitalfox>Sacro: What happen to make such a drastic measure?
19:03<Sacro>Digitalfox: err... probably me
19:03<Digitalfox>lol
19:03<Digitalfox>So i'm talking to the bad guy :\
19:04|-|mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
19:05<Sacro>Belugas: KICK 'IM!
19:05<Amixosx>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_W4yGG_bBA <- OpenTTD movie
19:06<Sacro>Belugas: HE DID IT AGAIN!
19:06<Sacro>BLASPHEMER!
19:06<+glx>Belugas: better kick Sacro ;)
19:06<Sacro>:o
19:06<Sionide>for caps?
19:06<Sacro>what did i do? D:
19:06<Digitalfox>Well at least is from OpenTTD, so i don't see a p+roblem..
19:07[~]Belugas thinks he'll kick both!
19:07<@Belugas>naaa
19:07<+glx>Sionide: yeah good reason :)
19:07<@Belugas>Amixosx, please refrain yourself
19:07<@Belugas>you're poluting the channel
19:07<Sionide>glx, i used to be a ircop on another network, many moons ago :P
19:07<Sionide>an*
19:07<@Belugas>Sacro, you have to study for uni, so get the nose on those books !
19:08<Amixosx>Belugas: 3 moons, one red, other yellow, third is green
19:08<Sacro>Belugas: studying? Got nothing to do so far
19:08<Sionide>finally
19:08<Sionide>heroes has finished downloading, yay
19:08<Sacro>well, i could grab some C# books and research the "if " statement
19:09<Phazorx>is it a coincidence or just my luck?
19:09<Phazorx>svn is still down
19:09<+glx>svn works
19:10<+glx>I just commited a fix
19:11<Amixosx>i am sorry to post youtube clips
19:12<Phazorx>--- svn.openttd.org ping statistics ---
19:12<Phazorx>1550 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 1549577ms
19:12<Amixosx>didnt see the whole topic
19:12<Phazorx>nevermind, it came thorugh
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19:21<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11240 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix [FS#1323] (r11152): forgot to invert a test
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19:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r11241 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Fix: Obiwan error on industry animated tiles. Spotted and fixed by Csaboka
19:44<Sacro>Belugas: wtf is an "obiwan error"?
19:44<+glx>off by one
19:44<@Belugas>Off By One
19:45<@Belugas>it's a joke
19:45<_Ben_>an oxymoron, obiwan doesn't make errors
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>it's like a once a week joke, how long have you been here?
19:55<Sacro>few years now :(
19:56<Sacro>actually, how long *have* i been here :\
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20:03<Eddi|zuHause>iirc you were already here when i came...
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>that's almost 2 years ago
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20:13<Amixosx>wow.. next night we will get our first snow
20:13<Amixosx>:D
20:13<Amixosx>i am so happy!!!
20:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r11242 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
20:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Codechange: When displaying the industry funding gui, present the industries in the same order as they are available.
20:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Prior of this, they were separated in processing/organic and extractive.
20:15<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Now, all are mixed, just filtered when required. This will allow easy comparison with TTDPatch's list. (glx and me)
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20:36<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11243 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: update waypoint signs when renaming a town
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21:30<rat>can anyone tell me who made this: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:DuelBranchMerge.png
21:31|-|Ihmemies_ [ihmemies@a88-113-24-180.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Signed off]
21:31<rat>i'd like to get a full sized screen shot
21:31<Sacro>GAS
21:32<rat>does he idle this channel?
21:32<Sacro>@seen GAS
21:32<Sacro>!seen GAS
21:32<_42_>Sacro, GAS? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember GAS.
21:33<Sacro>err...
21:33<Sacro>don't reckon so
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21:41<rat>how can i contact him
21:47<Phazorx>holy crap that's as messy junction
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22:50<sirotzke>hello?
22:50<sirotzke>whos here chatting?
22:51<sirotzke>how come my openttd is not working?
22:51<sirotzke>I cant seem to be able to pick up the servers in multiplayer mode
22:51<sirotzke>always worked fine until just now
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23:01<_Ben_>sirotzke: clikcing find server doesn't work? and you are on Internet not LAN?
23:02<_Ben_>you can manually add them using this page also http://www.openttd.org/servers.php
23:10<sirotzke>yeah
23:10<sirotzke>I have it set on internet
23:10<sirotzke>I been playing for the last few days and it has worked fine
23:10<sirotzke>the openttd.org website is down
23:11<sirotzke>do you think that has anything to do with it?
23:12<_Ben_>website isn't down for me
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23:27<sirotzke>hmm
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 10 00:00:10 2007