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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-12

---Logopened Fri Oct 12 00:00:05 2007
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01:56<FR^2>Good morning (here at least)
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02:23<dihedral|away>morning ladies
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05:25[~]dihedral|work wonders if he as ever mentioned that people here are way too silent
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05:26<FR^2>dihedral|work: Hmm. What do you suppose should one answer to "morning ladies"?
05:27<boekabart>dihedral|work: no work to do? :p
05:27<dihedral|work>at least "(?:good\s)?morning"
05:28<FR^2>dihedral|work: Does the idea of a channel full of bncs disturb you?
05:28<dihedral|work>i just look for distraction :)
05:32<boekabart>dihedral|work: that's what I referred to
05:33<dihedral|work>you asked me if i have work to do... and i do
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05:33[~]dihedral|work greets Ammller
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06:48<@orudge>"YouTube link == Ban"?
06:48<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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07:38<Ammller>what does "closed" mean in FS?
07:38<Ammller>solved or won't be solved?
07:39<Noldo>I think there is separate Won't fix
07:41<Ammller>oh, in my case, its solved... :)
07:41<skidd13>Ammller: There should be an aditional comment "Reason for closing:  Fixed" that describes it.
07:41<Ammller>yes, just saw it
07:42<Ammller>I need to look in the commit comment
07:42<Ammller>!openttd commit 11191
07:42<_42_>Commit by glx :: r11191 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-10-01 18:59:25 UTC)
07:42<_42_>-Fix [FS#1227]: GLS_ACTIVATION stage must be done immediatly after GLS_RESERVE stage, before the GLS_RESERVE stage for the next newgrf.
07:42<+glx>needs 11196 also :)
07:43<Ammller>ah :)
07:43<Ammller>!openttd commit 11196
07:43<_42_>Commit by glx :: r11196 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2007-10-02 20:20:14 UTC)
07:43<_42_>-Fix (r11191): _cur_stage was incorrect for GLS_ACTIVATION stage
07:43<+glx>grf loading stage blathijs
07:44<Ammller>glx: did my nothing.grf help ?
07:44<blathijs>glx: ah, tnx
07:44<+glx>Ammller: it worked with 11191
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>how would i go and install TTDP with wine? (for grf testing)
07:47<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i might still have a TTD directory from windows times...
07:47<+glx>you need it :)
07:48<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause2: a small howto:
07:56<Eddi|zuHause2>~/spiele/Tycoon5> wine ttdpatchw.exe
07:56<Eddi|zuHause2>Unknown language 'de_DE.UTF-8' specified in the environment
07:56<Eddi|zuHause2>variable LANG or LANGUAGE. Known languages:
07:58<Eddi|zuHause2>c:\windows\system32\wcmd.exe /C COPY GAMEGFX.EXE TTDLOADW.OVL >nul
07:58<Eddi|zuHause2>Konnte c:\windows\system32\wcmd.exe nicht ausf�hren.
07:59<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i assume case sensitivity...
08:01<Ammller>Eddi|zuHause2: I guess you also need the to give the parameter -y for skipping version questions...
08:02<FR^2>Hmm. I have a question concerning development organization of openttd... The nightly builds have very different features implemented, isn't it? So when in one nightly e.g. it is possible to buy a larger area of land by dragging the mouse, in the current builds this feature isn't implemented any more?
08:03<Noldo>I don't remember other features being removed from nighlies other than pbs
08:04<Phazorx>perhaps some bugs are classified as features before removed?
08:04<Noldo>releases don't have all the bleeding edge features, but that's quite natural I think
08:05<Ammller>Phazorx: which is?
08:05<Phazorx>Ammller: i dont think i have any examples
08:05<Eddi|zuHause2>FR^2: releases have all features the nightly had in last december
08:05<FR^2>Hmm. No, I'm only talking about the nightly builds, not the releases.
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08:06<Phazorx>Ammller: how's the pack coming along btw?
08:06<Eddi|zuHause2>FR^2: maybe you used one of the various "Integrated" builds
08:06<Eddi|zuHause2>FR^2: drag-buying land was never feature of a nightly
08:07<Ammller>FR^2: there is patch for "your" feature and they are in INs like Mini or Chris
08:07<Phazorx>FR^2: perpas you are talking about miniIN or ChrisIN?
08:07<FR^2>Then I was mistaken, I thought I read it in the forums somewhere.
08:08<Ammller>Phazorx: I have still no 10.3 on my pc
08:08<Phazorx>what's 10.3?
08:08<skidd13>I assume OpenSuSE
08:08<Phazorx>is that prerequisite for coop grf pack 6?
08:09<Ammller>:), yes, at least it was yesterday
08:09<Ammller>but I guess, I will stay on 10.2
08:10<Ammller>I am to lazy for new installation and upgrade won't work
08:10<Eddi|zuHause2>wine: Unhandled page fault on write access to 0x00000001 at address 0x603d07 (thread 0026), starting debugger...
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08:13<Phazorx>Ammller: may i ask what feat6ures of .3 are so criticaly important to you, so you decided to spend your time upgrading?
08:15<Ammller>hmm, just courious about it, nothing special
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08:15<Ammller>oh, the new kernel, I need the USB support for my mobile phone
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08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>whenever i try to update to a new kernel, something fails
08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>i now managed to get the modules right, so it recognises my SATA disk
08:16<Ammller>thats why I only like to update with distros
08:16<Eddi|zuHause2>but now i get wrong emty space values
08:17<Eddi|zuHause2>or at least writing sometimes fails with "disk full", when df reports 3GB free
08:17<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammller: i have a distro
08:17<Ammller>I updated on spring to 22 or 21 and usb works, but had problems with wlan then
08:17<Ammller>so I went pack to 18
08:18<Ammller>I mean I update the kernel, when I update the distro
08:20<FR^2>Well, seems I'm totally confused about the development organization concerning changes / feature requests etc. *shrug*
08:20<Eddi|zuHause2>svn log?
08:22<+glx>Reason for closing: Won't implement
08:22<+glx>Additional comments about closing: By policy we do not want this tool
08:23<+glx>so you won't see it in nighlies or releases
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08:24<FR^2>glx: Oh now I read that,too. *g* Okay, okay, thanks for the hints :)
08:24<+glx>but as the comment says, it was in MiniIN
08:24<hylje>DO NOT WANT
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08:26<FR^2>glx: Exactly that was the information I overlooked :)
08:27<Ammller>hmm, btw, its a clientside patch, so you can patch your client and play on MP
08:27<Ammller>with the advantage of it
08:27<+glx>it sends a bunch of CMD_BUY_LAND?
08:28<+glx>that's stupid
08:28<Ammller>I thought so, long time ago, I tried
08:28<Ammller>same with c&p patch
08:29<+glx>well c&p can't work differently
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08:29<+glx>but buy land could send only one command with start and end
08:30<Phazorx>glx: I got an idea for nifty MP feature
08:30<+glx>needs a modified server though
08:31<Phazorx>idea similar to "ping" command in some MP RTOS to get attention to some area - server broadcasted scrollto event
08:31<Phazorx>sent as newsarticle
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08:31<FR^2>Ammller: Maybe I will try that. I'm not that familiar with the internals, I even haven't tried out other graphics sets, yet
08:32<Ammller>hmm, wasn't meant, youj should try it :)
08:33<Phazorx>FR^2: looks change quite a bit, and grf bring not only grapfics
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09:36<ln->how could i generate a UML diagram (or similar) of all the dependencies in a program? (based on source code)
09:37<ln->doxygen+graphviz is otherwise sufficient, but it doesn't show _all_ classes in one picture.
09:39[~]dihedral|work wants to go home...
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10:06<skidd13>Any dev comments to 1328
10:09<@Belugas>nice cleaning
10:09<@Belugas>lots of lines to read
10:10<@Belugas>you're good at doing lots of lines of code :D
10:11<@Belugas>BRSW_PLAT_<xxx> is a bit obscure as a name. my opinion
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10:11[~]dihedral|work greets Belugas
10:13<@Belugas>hey :)
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10:14<@Belugas>apart from that, skidd13, seems to be going the rigth way
10:14<@Belugas>from quick reading
10:14<dihedral|work>any outlook on getting towns grf'able at some point? :-P
10:14<skidd13>Belugas: I agree that there can be a better name, but I hate too_long_names
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10:15<skidd13>dihedral|work: what do you need?
10:15<@Belugas>dihedral|work: who knows
10:16<dihedral|work>skidd13: like with new industries, a factory can only accept so 'n so much of any raw material
10:16<dihedral|work>i would like to see a town only able to accept so 'n so much pax, water, food, goods
10:17<dihedral|work>that would then make people distribute food, water, goods across more towns, rather than just dumping stuff in one town
10:17<dihedral|work>which then would make more towns grow
10:17<dihedral|work>+ you get more realism
10:18<dihedral|work>nobody dumps 40k passangers a month in a 3k town
10:18<@Belugas>[11:20] <dihedral|work> + you get more realism <--- that is the best argument one could give me for NOT dong it :D
10:18<dihedral|work>Belugas: it adds complexity to the game, making it more challenging
10:19<dihedral|work>how do you like that
10:19<@Belugas>skidd13 : so it's the challenge to find better and still short name ;)
10:19<skidd13>dihedral|work: there is a branch for the rewrite of the economy you kow.
10:19<dihedral|work>is there?
10:19<skidd13>Belugas: yup :( :| :) :D
10:20<@Belugas>dihedral|work: i have some ideas on that, but nothing clear yet. Problem is that currently, towns have nothhing really special to make grf-able, as you mentionned.
10:20<@Belugas>but it would eventually be faisable, on the basis of town-models
10:20<+glx>towns don't accept anything anyway
10:21<skidd13>dihedral|work: svn://
10:21<dihedral|work>thanks skidd13 i'll have a look
10:21<skidd13>but there haven't been commits recently IIRC
10:24<skidd13>Belugas: BRSW_PLAT_<xxx> Do you have more problems with BRSW or with PLAT?
10:24<skidd13>:%s /PLAT/PLATFORM/g
10:25<@Belugas>although, yes, BRSW is a bit obscur if you do not see the name of the enum
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10:26<skidd13>uppercase -> "BuildRailStationWidget_PLATFORM_NUM_X" is really to long ;)
10:27<frosch123>Hhm, shouldn't BRSW_PLATFORM_NUMBER and BRSW_PLATFORM_LENGTH suffice? (like BRSw_PLATFORM_NUMBER + 5 instead of BRSW_PLAT_LEN_5)
10:27<frosch123>They are used in computation anyway.
10:29<+glx>I don't think switch likes case x+y:
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10:29[~]frosch123 misses ranges in cases like in Delphi :)
10:30[~]Belugas nods
10:30<+glx>or strings in cases like in VB :)
10:30<@Belugas>that is evil!
10:30<@Belugas>but cool :D
10:31<skidd13>IMO I should replace some of the "BRSW_PLATFORM_DIR_Y" with "BRSW_PLATFORM_NUM_1 - 1" cause then the widgets could be treated more dynamic, but thats a damned additional calculation...
10:32<skidd13>evil is cool, if it is documented enough... :D
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10:34<@Belugas>agreed :)
10:35<skidd13>The diff of my patch sucks, cause it let the patch appear so huge. But thats a general problem :(
10:37<@Belugas>one way to solve it, i think, would be to go one window per patch
10:37<@Belugas>not basing work on a file
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10:38<skidd13>That solves the result not the problem ;) I need a word based diff not a line based.
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10:55<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r11248 /trunk/src/newgrf_commons.cpp:
10:55<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1314]: The logic behind industry slot allocation was implying that the only condition an override could be placed in a slot is that there were no previous override.
10:55<CIA-5>OpenTTD: That is not exact: the slot must not have been occupied by an industry coming from a grf.
10:55<CIA-5>OpenTTD: So now, tourist center is available if more then one grf is used
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10:57<Eddi|zuHause2><glx> I don't think switch likes case x+y: <- as long as x und y are const, that should be fine... but i'm not a C expert...
10:58<toresbe>glx: not a problem at all
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11:31<LeviathNL>hmm where can i find Whitehand's Tourist Set, his is only giving php-errors
11:31<LeviathNL>his site
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11:32<LeviathNL>oh wait, /drupal is giving errors, /wordpress works
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11:55<Ailure>I read that was Whitehand's tourettes set
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11:58<dihedral>what ya guys say to a custom penalty rail tile?
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12:00<Ailure>how would it work
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12:04<@Bjarni>if a train tries to figure out if it should use the track, it will get a custom penalty for using it
12:05<@Bjarni>or something
12:07<LeviathNL>when constructing industries that require to be buikd within a minimal distance of a town Openttd seems to measure from the center of the city. Is this intended behaviour?
12:09<dihedral>something like a wp that you can add a penalty to
12:09<dihedral>sorry - responding to something else LeviathNL
12:10<dihedral>Ailure: so that you are not limited to building stations in the middle of nowhere for a whopping huge penalty or rows of roadcrossings for smaller ones
12:10<@Bjarni>dihedral: I figured as much and it sounds like an idea. Sort of like the signs, but maybe a bit easier to use
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12:10<dihedral>at least for those people who somewhat understand yapf :-P
12:10<dihedral>hello skidd13
12:10<@Bjarni>hi skidd13
12:11<Ailure>I sorta understand how YAPF works in theory
12:11<@Bjarni> <dihedral> at least for those people who somewhat understand yapf :-P <-- we don't care for the rest :P
12:11<Ailure>at least in theory
12:11<@Bjarni>I mean we don't care for people who can't figure out that a higher number will decrease the chance of a train to use this route
12:11<Ailure>I know the math behind it, but don't ask me reproducing it into openTTD or anything
12:12<@Bjarni>I wouldn't code it either
12:12<dihedral>yes - it would be a pain to code i guess
12:14<@Bjarni>but you just said that you want to code a waypoint with a penalty
12:15<@Bjarni>would be interesting to give it a negative penalty :)
12:15<@Belugas>and graphically? How to represent it?
12:15<Ailure>I remember something like that being done
12:15<Ailure>with speed signs or something
12:16<dihedral>speed signs are something else
12:16<Ailure>it wasn't really speed signs
12:16<Ailure>more like
12:16<Ailure>fast trains would prefer a lane
12:16<Ailure>and slow trains would prefer another lane
12:16<Ailure>it affected the pathfinding
12:16<Ailure>by increasing or decreasing penatly depending on the trainspeed
12:16<@Bjarni>so if the train use the strait track, it's only 15 tiles, but if it turns and make the 200 tile detour, then it will have a lower penalty because of the negative penalties.... yeah, this is how real life railroads works
12:17<dihedral>"we appologize for the 2 hour delay, due to ..."
12:17<Ailure>I really love how how a train can get stuck at a terminus station in YAPF
12:17<Ailure>if lost
12:17<dihedral>and the additional running cost
12:17<@Bjarni>I once got a like 10 km detour... they didn't want me to pass a certain switch
12:18<Ailure>since the train can't find a path to it's destination
12:18<Ailure>it kept going forward
12:18<Ammler>something like this routemarker signals?
12:18<Ailure>and it kept trying to enter a busy lane at the station
12:19<Ailure>I swear that's my most common deadlock :/
12:19<dihedral>how do they work Ammler
12:19<Ailure>reqalized later it was partly due to my stupidty though
12:19<@Bjarni>I don't think the colours selected to be NCIE
12:19<Ammler>just give penalty to the color
12:20<Ammler>you can define train, which color should not give penalty or which more
12:20<Ammler>don't know exactly
12:20<Ammler>I agree Bjarni
12:20<Ammler>I rather would like the programmable signals
12:21<@Bjarni>in fact if it's a waypoint, then displaying them as signals would be wrong
12:21<@Bjarni>they should be signs
12:21<hylje>programmable signal systems!
12:21<Ammler>Bjarni: they aren't waypoints
12:21<@Bjarni>I know
12:21<dihedral>Bjarni: they dont have to be waypoints
12:22<Phazorx>i'd like "reactional signals" with definable signal block, like if there is a train anywhere between here and here - go red
12:22<Ammler>the train don't have to pass the signal
12:22<dihedral>just something where you get a field box when clicking it and being able to ender 300 or 1000 if you like
12:22<@Bjarni>but the idea is that the tile gives an additional penalty of a condition is met (or not met)
12:22<@Bjarni>which would make it a sign, not a signal
12:22<Ammler>waypoints are rubbish, btw.
12:23<@Bjarni>waypoints are flawed by design
12:23<Phazorx>Bjarni: pentaly as a change in prefernce of certain path or profibit some choices entirely?
12:23<dihedral>why is that
12:23<@Bjarni>they are limited to one tile only
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12:23<@Bjarni>by design
12:24<Ailure>I love the cargo announcments
12:24<@Bjarni>Phazorx: yes. You wouldn't need a signal to do that
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12:24<Ailure>it flipflops between "Finstock Steel mill accepts coal" "Finstock steel mill no longer accepts coal"
12:24<Phazorx>that was an "or" question
12:24<@Bjarni>Ailure: make a bug report
12:24<Ailure>that's hardly a bug
12:25<Ailure>it's telling the truth
12:25<Ailure>it's just that it stops being true rather quickly
12:25<@Bjarni>the bug is that it turns the coal acceptance on and off
12:25<@Bjarni>if it keeps doing that
12:25<dihedral>Ailure: stop delivering as fast
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12:25<dihedral>or open a nother steel mill
12:25<Ailure>Even better
12:25<Ailure>I need to give it more iron ore
12:25<Ailure>it's hard to balance
12:26<@Bjarni>then it's good that you are using conventional rails and not monorail
12:26<@Bjarni>out of balanced monorails would suck
12:27<dihedral>Ailure: you would have to ballence that with the amount of coal mines you serve and the amount of iron ore mines you serve
12:27<dihedral>not with the amount of trains
12:27<Ailure>I know
12:27<Ailure>the ratio was something like
12:27<Ailure>I think you need one coal for every other iron ore
12:27<Ailure>I'm giving it too much coal
12:28<@Bjarni>lucky for you it's OpenTTD
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12:28<@Bjarni>this issue would really suck in SimuTrans
12:30<@Bjarni>in SimuTrans if the steel mill demands 1 coal and one iron, then it will take away one coal and one iron at the same time. If you flood it with coal and no iron, then the input buffer for coal would fill up and once it's full, it will not accept coal until something is removed from the buffer
12:31<@Bjarni>I think we should implement this to get realistic behaviour
12:31<@Bjarni>and to annoy Ailure
12:32<+glx>Bjarni: already doable with new industries I think
12:32<Ailure>earlier in this game I almost had the opposite problem
12:32<Ailure>too much iron ore
12:32<Ailure>actually seems like it was balanced
12:33<Ailure>...i just had a deadlock at a iron ore source
12:33<@Bjarni>glx: that's possible. I didn't really test new industries yet
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12:40[~]Belugas confirms glx's saying
12:40<@Belugas>pikkabird uses it a lot
12:41<@Belugas>called stockpilling (i think)
12:42<@Belugas>you deliver coal. nice. but nothing happens until you deliver iron ore too. THEN and only then can the indu produces steel
12:42<@Belugas>just an example
12:43<dihedral>i quite like that feature
12:43<dihedral>adds complexity
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>re: custom penalty, i have said this multiple times, as a first step, one could put a waypoint, and enter something resembling "cargo==freight?500:10"
13:14<Eddi|zuHause2>as the waypoint name
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13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>then, in yapf or npf code, if you hit a waypoint tile, you parse the name
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13:15<@Bjarni>sounds like a hack
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>you can later replace that by a real scripting interface
13:15<Eddi|zuHause2>like squirrel
13:16<Eddi|zuHause2>'s not a hack
13:16<Eddi|zuHause2>it's a proof of concept
13:17<Eddi|zuHause2>the real challenge will be to implement something to create squirrel code from within the game
13:18<Eddi|zuHause2>either a sufficiently powerful GUI
13:18<Eddi|zuHause2>or an edit box to enter code directly
13:18|-|Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
13:18<Eddi|zuHause2>but the changes to YAPF should not be more than a few lines of code
13:21<boekabart>programmable signals?
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13:30<Wolf01>uhm... newindustries close too randomly
13:31<Sacro>Wolf01: too randomly?
13:32<Wolf01>yes, they are producing at good rates and suddenly close
13:32<Eddi|zuHause2>boekabart: no, more like programmable route penalties
13:32<Wolf01>raw industries are a pain.. you find them, start a profitable route, and then they close
13:33<Wolf01>i can understand secondary industries.. but raw ones
13:33<Eddi|zuHause2>Wolf01: set industries to stable?
13:34<Wolf01>economy: fluctuating, inflation: on
13:34<Wolf01>but with NI is really more difficult than the normal game
13:35<skidd13>good night
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13:37<Wolf01>and all fishing grounds, except one, closed their activity.. but they are still present on the map
13:37<Wolf01>or better, they are producing, but the station sign disappeared
13:39<Eddi|zuHause2>that sounds weird
13:39<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause2: Very interesting idea (custom penalties)
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13:54<@Belugas>Wolf01: any peculiar? or in general?
13:54<@Belugas>ECS as well as PBI?
13:54<Wolf01>in general
13:55<Wolf01>ah, no, ECS
13:55<Wolf01>i want to try PBI tomorrow
13:55<Wolf01>since ECS is toooooooo complex
13:58<@Belugas>it is a bit complex, indeed
13:58<@Belugas>PBI was much easier to work with
14:00<@Belugas>Wolf01, i know it is hard, but try to get a pattern. Like year of closing...
14:00<@Belugas>been servied or not
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14:01<@Belugas>if producing, how much
14:01<@Belugas>since when
14:01<@Belugas>stuff like that
14:03<@Belugas>in fact, anything
14:04<@Belugas>it does not help when there are so many grfs loaded at once, tough
14:05<Wolf01>for example my tinner industry accepted only 85t of steel, and was served for 19 years by 5 trucks of fish which carried the fish from the dock to the industry, not so well served, but at least to keep it open until the new railroad is finished
14:05<Wolf01>the problem is that there is no livestock :|
14:06<Wolf01>and i think that is the cause for it closing
14:07<Wolf01> lolz, try italian :D
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14:24<Wolf01> XDDD
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15:15<@Bjarni>damn you guys really don't feel like talking tonight
15:15<@Bjarni>next person to idle will be kicked!
15:16<SpComb> <-- Chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken.
15:16[~]Bjarni regrets saying anything
15:17<hylje>Bjarni: AAAAAAAA AAAA A AAAAAA :D
15:18<SpComb>Chicken chicken chicken -->
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15:21[~]Bjarni really regrets saying anything
15:26<ln->YouTube link == Ban
15:26<SpComb>it's not a youtube link
15:27<ln->technically not
15:28<SpComb>it's hard to define exactly what a is or is not a "YouTube link", so your policy needs to be expressed more clearly
15:31<ln->any link == ban
15:32<SpComb>and if one doesn't use a client that turns URLs into clickable links?
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause2>it does not really matter what "one" uses... it rather matters what "The Operator" uses
15:37<Eddi|zuHause2>[note that capitalisation is used to support an emphasis]
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15:41<@Bjarni>I find it hard to locate youtube links
15:42<Ailure>one question about newindustries
15:42<Ailure>if two newindustries accepts the same cargo
15:42<@Bjarni>I find it a really tricky rule to obey and ensure that everybody obeys
15:42<Ailure>is there anything that influences the priotery
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: miham * r11249 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-12 22:42:24
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 110 fixed, 141 changed by TrueTenacity (251)
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
15:43<CIA-5>OpenTTD: slovak - 1 fixed by lengyel (1)
15:43<Ailure>like I want to uhm
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15:45<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you mean by priority?
15:46<Eddi|zuHause2>you mean if they are in the catchment area of the same station?
15:48<Ailure>well yes
15:48<Ailure>like I want brickworks to take most of the gravel
15:48<Ailure>but a engineers yard to take any surplus in meanwhile as I yet have to do a clay pit line D:
15:49<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, i don't think that is possible
15:50<Ailure>mm understandable
15:50<Ailure>i'm sitll cruious though
15:50<Ailure>if it's divided between all industries
15:50<Ailure>or heh
15:51<Eddi|zuHause2>there recently was a commit about that
15:51<Ailure>which one >_>
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15:56<Greyscale>I keep reading Eddi|zuHause2 as Eddi the horse
15:56<Eddi|zuHause2>you, sir, are a sick person
15:56<Eddi|zuHause2>Ailure: i can't find it
15:58<Ailure>sure youdidn't misread anything heh
15:58<Ailure>can't find it either
15:58<Ailure> what was it supposed to do
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i am pretty sure i read something about "improve the way cargo is delivered to industries if more than one is in the catchment radius of the station"
16:02<Ailure>there's a clay pit
16:02<Ailure>bloody hard to find
16:02<Ailure>small as hell on map
16:02<Eddi|zuHause2>there need to be filters for the industry list
16:02<Eddi|zuHause2>like "show me all farms"
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>or "show me all industries that produce or accept coal"
16:03<Ailure>someone did something like that already
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>there are filters for the vehicle lists
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>they just have to be ported
16:03<Eddi|zuHause2>or the station list
16:05<Ailure>I mean on the forums
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16:24<julius>I have a problem with the version of openttd I'm using. The airplanes and the boats are not giving money at the end of the year :/ Do you know if this problem is known and if it is solved in the recent versions of the game ?
16:25<julius>I'm using openttd 0.5.3-1
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>what do you mean money at end of year?
16:25<julius>hmm... (i'm not a native speaker)
16:25<Eddi|zuHause2>you get money whenever you delver something, that has nothing to do with years
16:26<julius>I know but I don't know how to explain it in an other way :p
16:26<Eddi|zuHause2>provide a savegame?
16:26<julius>When a plane lands, It shows the money it has won
16:27<julius>I'm going to make a screenshot I think
16:27<+glx>what is the color of this money?
16:29<julius>wait, I've just make the screenshot, let me show you what I mean
16:34<Eddi|zuHause2>gnah, i need bendy stations...
16:35<Eddi|zuHause2>there's no way you manage to place 10 tile stations in mountaneous territory
16:37<@Bjarni> <-- I'm a minority :o
16:38<@Bjarni>julius: huh
16:38<@Bjarni>that looks... wrong
16:38<Ailure>...the black arrow looks like a penis
16:38<@Bjarni>like it's in French or Italian or something
16:38<Wolf01>its french
16:39<@Bjarni>Ailure: what?
16:39<julius>haha... That's an arrow, not a penis :D
16:39<@Bjarni>actual size?
16:39<Ailure>don't use as thick pen
16:39<Eddi|zuHause2>julius: make sure you are not using "transfer" orders
16:39<julius>that's just to show where the problem is
16:39<Rafagd>Bjarni: Is Openttd imune to Chocolate bars?
16:39<julius>Eddi|zuHause2, I think I am Oo What's the problem with that ?
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16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>julius: use transfer orders if you want to reroute the cargo to another station later
16:40<@Bjarni>julius: the transfer function is kind of... not well
16:40<@Bjarni>you see, it was never really finished
16:40<Eddi|zuHause2>you must not use transfer at the target station
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16:41<@Bjarni>Rafagd: sure
16:41<julius>ok, so that was a stupid question :D thanks for your help :)
16:41|-|Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:41<Rafagd>Bjarni: lucky!
16:48<dihedral>signs are not deleted when the company is removed?
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16:50<@Bjarni>Rafagd: actually it's more like the fact that I'm incorruptible
16:50<Eddi|zuHause2>you say that now, wait if you hold The One Ring in your hands
16:52<@Bjarni>are you saying that I will end up in a shotgun wedding or something?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause2>err... that is not exactly what i meant...
16:53<@Bjarni>then you should make it more clear
16:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i honestly don't know how to make LOTR references any more clear than that :p
16:54<@Bjarni>oh like that
16:54<@Bjarni>you would still be unable to bribe me
16:54<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: it was clear
16:54<dihedral>Bjarni: lol
16:55<@Bjarni>I was thinking of a wedding ring and thought about how a wedding could corrupt me...
16:55<Eddi|zuHause2>julius: this is a station where you typically use "transfer" orders:,%2024.%20Dez%201939.png
16:56<@Bjarni>LOL. For a good laugh, find some Japanese text on the internet and give it to babelfish
16:56<Eddi|zuHause2>the short wood trains gather wood from the forests in the hillst
16:56<@Bjarni>reading the kanji makes more sense :D
16:56<Eddi|zuHause2>and the long trains bring the wood to the far distant saw mill
16:57<julius>ok I understand, thank you very moch for the example :)
16:59<Eddi|zuHause2>chicken chicken chicken.
16:59<Eddi|zuHause2>what's that many question marks useful for?
17:00<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause2: you want to play chicken?
17:00|-|Eddi|zuHause2 kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [You chickened out. I won]
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17:01<TrueBrain>@kick Bjarni You chickened out. I won
17:01|-|Bjarni kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [You chickened out. I won]
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17:01<TrueBrain>I love good games :)
17:01<@Bjarni>that wasn't a part of the plan
17:01<TrueBrain>that is why I love it :)
17:03<@Bjarni>I just had a burp and a hiccup at the same time :(
17:03<@Bjarni>damn that hurts
17:03<@Bjarni>never tried that before
17:03<@Bjarni>it still hurts :(
17:04<Eddi|zuHause2>btw. i find it weird how the mine station has white snow shining through the ground, while the wood station has green grass in between the dirt, was that always this way or is that yet another sprite sorting issue?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause2>(see picture above)
17:05<@Bjarni>you know it's really cruel to laugh at people getting hurt
17:05<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truelight * r11250 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_vehicle.cpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: SkipVehicleOrder always skipped to first vehicle order.. replaced with SkipToVehicleOrder, and added a param to specify to which order it should skip (dynaxo)
17:05<@Bjarni>who is dynaxo?
17:08<Phazorx>that's nice... you dont know your developerS?
17:08|-|FlowaPowa [] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa]
17:08<Eddi|zuHause2>so... now i have a brand new shiny valley track, and i can't use a BR 05 on it, because of the previously mentioned problem...
17:09<@Bjarni><Phazorx> that's nice... you dont know your developerS? <-- I'm asking because AFAIK it's the first time he shows up in the commit log and I haven't seen that nick elsewhere
17:10<Phazorx>Bjarni: i got the idea, just sounds kinda inetresting that he is a dev, and not familar to you
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17:12<Eddi|zuHause2>nobody says he's a dev
17:12<Eddi|zuHause2>he's just someone who either provided a patch, or the idea for a patch, or a bug report
17:12<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause2: if the name is added like (name), he created the patch
17:12<TrueBrain>else it is: bug by <name>
17:12<TrueBrain>based on patch by <name>
17:12<TrueBrain>or something :p
17:13<TrueBrain>and Bjarni, if you care that much, you might want to read the topic related to the branch, might clear it up ;)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause2>errr... the loading of steel is totally messed up...
17:16<Eddi|zuHause2>it's like invoking the random trigger for the type of steel each time...
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17:18<blathijs>Bjarni: I haven't heard of the guy before either :-)
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17:19<TrueBrain>nobody has :)
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17:36<dihedral>does anybody know of a map set replacement grf to make a night game
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>there was a TTRS night version
17:40<Gonozal_VIII>hmm tanker wagon is refittable to tourists
17:40<Eddi|zuHause2>i think
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17:43<@Bjarni>Gonozal_VIII: sounds like budget seats :D
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17:44<Ammler>Gonozal_VIII: DBSetXL has also a new ECS support
17:45<Ammler>check for the grf
17:45<Gonozal_VIII>nice :-)
17:45<Ammler>its called something like dbxl_ecs.grf
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17:48<kaan>evening all :)
17:49<dihedral>hmm... not as promising as i thought it might be
17:49|-|bruce89 [] has joined #openttd
17:49<bruce89>who maintains the wiki?
17:49<bruce89>MiHaMiX: see
17:50<dihedral>who maintaines
17:51<bruce89>why would I ask that in the OSM IRC channel?
17:51<bruce89>sorry, OpenTTD
17:52<dihedral>nvm - me is tired
17:52<dihedral>and sleepy
17:52[~]bruce89 sends a bed
17:53<Eddi|zuHause2>/dcc dihedral send bed
17:53<dihedral>wow - where did that all of a sudden come from?
17:53<bruce89>it's the wonders of IRC and a load of wires
17:54<dihedral>i hate experiencing the laws of gravity with my eyelids
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17:54<bruce89>that's usually bad news
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17:58<Eddi|zuHause2>hm. all the high speed engines can't pull tourist wagons, that's quite a limitation...
17:58<+glx>touristic trains are usually slow :)
17:59<dihedral>for the sight seeing :-D
17:59<bruce89>MiHaMiX: the <gallery> tag doesn't work
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, tourists usually want to get to the target fast, to do sight seeing there
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18:01<dihedral>whats you point Eddi|zuHause2 :-P
18:01<Ammler>worker is a cool New Industrie Idea:
18:02<Eddi|zuHause2>· <- i thought we covered that yesterday
18:02<Gonozal_VIII>ice and transrapid can
18:02<bruce89>which yesterday?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: no, the ICE-3 (engine) can be refitted to tourists, but it cannot carry additional tourist wagons
18:04<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: as long as it produces the same amount of workers it consumes :p
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>passenger coach (main line)
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: did you actually read?
18:05<Gonozal_VIII>160 km/h...
18:05<Eddi|zuHause2>"Einige der im DB Set XL 0.82 enthaltenen Lokomotiven beschränken den Typ bzw die Frachtart der anzuhängenden Wagen, zB auf Passagiere (PASS) und/oder Post (MAIL). Folgende Loks können daher keine auf Touristen (TOUR) umgerüsteten Wagen anhängen: BR18, BR05, VT08, VT11.5, ICE-TD, BR515, BR110, BR112, BR103, BR111, ICE-1, sowie der ICE-3."
18:06<Gonozal_VIII>also ich hab hier nen touristen ice3 mit touristenwaggons
18:07<Eddi|zuHause2>maybe that only applies to attaching wagons, not refitting attached wagons
18:07<Gonozal_VIII>you can't refit wagons that are not attached...
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>but you can remove them from one engine, and put them on another
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>or replace the engine
18:08<Eddi|zuHause2>or things...
18:08<Gonozal_VIII>but that doesn't make much sense
18:10<Eddi|zuHause2>why? say you have a running tourist train with BR 01, and get a new BR 05, then you want to (auto)replace the BR 01 to BR 05, which fails, because the wagons cannot be attached
18:10<Gonozal_VIII>i can refit to passengers first, upgrade and refit back...
18:11<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but not "auto"
18:11<Gonozal_VIII>so it's only annoying
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18:12<Gonozal_VIII>but i don't care much, wagon speed limits are on
18:16<Eddi|zuHause2>BR 05 has an override for the wagon speed
18:17<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, almost all fast engines have
18:19<Gonozal_VIII><-- stupid
18:19[~]TrueBrain agrees
18:20<Eddi|zuHause2>very hard to disagree ;)
18:23<Gonozal_VIII>cement works can only be built in rainforest areas?
18:25<Gonozal_VIII>there is no rainforest in temperate
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, it's so typical... one deadlock causes the next deadlock, causes the next deadlock, causes the next deadlock, ...
18:35<Gonozal_VIII>how did you manage to get so many deadlocks?
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause2>technically, i have only one deadlock at the same time
18:41<Eddi|zuHause2>but resolving one deadlock put so much load on the next section, that it locks
18:42<Eddi|zuHause2>where it would not lock under normal trafficc
18:42<Gonozal_VIII>depots with exit signals are good to prevent jams from spreading
18:42<Eddi|zuHause2>and the next deadlock was caused because all ore trains got stuck in the previous deadlock, so the station filled up with empty steel trains
18:44<Gonozal_VIII>ok, that's bad
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2>the initial deadlock was a circular crossing between trains
18:45<Gonozal_VIII>seperate the loading and unloading track earlier and add a waiting depot to the steel side...
18:45<@Belugas>Gonozal_VIII, the cement works is what i try to fix right now
18:45<@Belugas>it can be anything
18:45<@Belugas>so... patience :)
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18:46<Eddi|zuHause2>weird callback results might be loosely related to my BR 05 and my ore wagon issue
18:48<Eddi|zuHause2>Gonozal_VIII: it's normally not needed, the track is so long, that the 5 steel trains hardly ever meet at the station
18:48<Eddi|zuHause2>just when the stream of ore trains stops, they pile up
18:48<Eddi|zuHause2>and i don't have the space for separate stations
18:49<Eddi|zuHause2>grr... this random trigger annoys me...
18:49<Gonozal_VIII>random trigger?
18:50<Eddi|zuHause2>it's like it's triggering the random steel graphics each time it is attempting to load
18:50<Eddi|zuHause2>instead of when it is loading the first item
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19:09<dihedral> or
19:09<dihedral>more or less the same info
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19:17<Ammler>hmm, I just changed some constants ;)
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>since you will probably be playing a huge map, people should bring patience for downloading the map when joining
19:19<Ammler>hmm, a 1024² should be big enough
19:19<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: i would assume the client being the bottleneck
19:19<Ammler>maybe doulbe
19:19<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, i think so, too, but bottleneck is bottleneck :p
19:20<dihedral>but then at least the client is used to it :-)
19:20<Eddi|zuHause2>and even for an empty game you probably have like 2MB to download
19:20<dihedral>that would also depend on the number of industries and towns
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19:22<Eddi|zuHause2>the trees alone make for a pretty uncompressible map
19:22<dihedral>heh - true
19:23<Gonozal_ping_timeout>why is there no option to disable tree growth?
19:23<Eddi|zuHause2>of my current game (2048x2048), the first savegame (1921) is 3.7MB, the current one (1941) is 4.3MB
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>i have very low towns and very low industries
19:24<Eddi|zuHause2>and like 120 trains and 50 road vehicles now
19:25<dihedral>but that is 4x 1024^2
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19:28<Eddi|zuHause2>yes, but a 20 player game with lots of industries will probably fill up very quickly
19:29<dihedral>lots hope it works
19:31<Eddi|zuHause2>i just want to mention that this is nothing for my kind of bandwidth
19:33<@Belugas>Dalestan, could it be that newindu.asm:1920 should read "...for callback 28" instead of "...for callback 22" ?
19:33<Ammler>hmm, the other thing is also, if you pause on join, what you need on big mapbs, you have much pauses if a lot connect and d/c
19:34<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause2: we would still love to see you at least for a few mins :-) paying a visit, if and once we get it to work :-)
19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>dihedral: well, the map is the biggest issue, so _if_ i joined, it would not matter much if i stayed a minute or 10 hours
19:35<dihedral>Ammler: we will just have to try a few different settings and see what works best
19:37<dihedral>night ladies :-)
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause2>i must say, daylength 4 is a really great setting
19:46<Eddi|zuHause2>you have enough time to enjoy all the great steam engines
19:46<Gonozal_ping_timeout>i usually play with daylength 10 :-)
19:46<Eddi|zuHause2>you have enough time to build up a nice network when you get the engines and wagons for long distance trains
19:47<Eddi|zuHause2>well, i tried daylength 32 once, but it was way over the top
19:47<Gonozal_ping_timeout>is that maximum?
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>at least with the patch back then...
19:48<Eddi|zuHause2>there are like half a dozen versions around :p
19:49<Gonozal_ping_timeout>30 in chrisin...
19:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r11251 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp:
19:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1318]: Newindustries must not rely on the old check placement functions. It is the the job of callbacks. Therefor, upon substitution, disable the said check.
19:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: Warning, plenty of industries are going to be generated ;)
19:51<@Belugas>Gonozal_ping_timeout, as you probably have guessed, here is your fix
19:51<bruce89>great time to do a svn up
19:51<bruce89>just before that
19:52<@Belugas>sorry :) i promise i'll never commit again when you'er on irc ;)
19:52|-|Gonozal_ping_timeout changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
19:53<bruce89>I'm only on because the wiki is messed up
19:53<bruce89>and I'm supposed to get it fixed, MiHaMiX
19:53<Gonozal_VIII>thanks for that belugas, i think that also helps with some other things
19:54<Eddi|zuHause2>i haven't seen MiHaMiX talkin in months...
19:55<Eddi|zuHause2>@seen MiHaMiX
19:55<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause2: MiHaMiX was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 0 days, 4 hours, 56 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> Prof_Frink:
19:56<Eddi|zuHause2>ok, that was while i was away :p
19:56<bruce89>anyone else
19:56<Eddi|zuHause2>what is actually wrong with this page?
19:56<bruce89>that I can moan about that is
19:57<bruce89><gallery> tags don't work --
19:58<Eddi|zuHause2>it looks alright to me, what do you expect to see?
19:58<bruce89>really, the table's all messed up here, see the image at the bottom right
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>that's not exactly what i see
20:00<bruce89>not messed up there then?
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>the table looks fine to me, just that there are only 4 pictures per row
20:00<bruce89>this is with Epiphany with the Gecko backend
20:04<Gonozal_VIII>looks like the picture
20:04<Eddi|zuHause2> this is what i see
20:05<Gonozal_VIII>i have the same borders as in the picture
20:06<bruce89>perhaps Gecko is just rubbish
20:07<+glx>I have borders changing when moving a window over the table
20:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i go to bed...
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>good night
20:12<bruce89>it's fine with WebKit
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20:14<bruce89>but not with Gecko 1.9
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21:23<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11252 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_cargo.cpp newgrf_cargo.h): -Revert r11239, Fix r9620: cargo translation was not done correctly
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21:24<De_Ghosty>hey ehy
21:24<De_Ghosty>what's the string thingy call
21:25<De_Ghosty>in c++
21:25<De_Ghosty>i wanan declare a string
21:29<De_Ghosty>array of chars..
21:30<+glx>array of char is a C thing
21:30<+glx>in c++ you have std::string
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21:33<De_Ghosty>yea i jsut read
21:33<De_Ghosty>so c doesn't have string
21:33<+glx>strings are array of char ;)
21:33<+glx>but C do it in the hard way
21:34<bruce89>easy way more like
21:34<De_Ghosty>how i get pFile = fopen to open a string like pFile = fopen ("%s",stringsthing,"w"); ?
21:36<+glx>and use fopen as usual
21:37<De_Ghosty>stringthing.c_str <---- is a string?
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21:37<De_Ghosty>pFile = fopen ("%s",stringthing.c_str,"w"); ?
21:37<De_Ghosty>string stringthing.c_str;
21:37<De_Ghosty>pFile = fopen ("%s",stringthing.c_str,"w"); ?
21:37<+glx>stringthing is std::string, stringthing.c_str is a char*
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21:38<+glx>but in c++ it's better to use streams
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21:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11253 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r9411): industries can still use cargo they define, even if these cargo are disabled by a grf loaded later
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 13 00:00:39 2007