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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-14

---Logopened Sun Oct 14 00:00:22 2007
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03:29<Wolf01>hello
03:31<mcbane>morning
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03:56<huma>oi
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03:57<huma>there are no new trains in tropics? it's 56 and wills 2-8-0 is the only available.
03:59<hylje>there are very few trains in tropic at first
04:02<huma>oh, may 56, here it goes diesel - mjs 250 :)
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04:20<Eddi|zuHause2>huma: tropic has very few engines in general, try one of the grf vehicle sets (USSet, Tropic Refurbishment Set, etc.)
04:21<huma>thanks :)
04:21<huma>btw, did you guys try original music?
04:23<huma>i didn't make it to work. copied *.gm files to gm dir, installed timidity, but it doesn't play them :(
04:25<huma>how sad is that. it's maybe the reason i like jazz :) listened to it while playing the original ttd as a teen :)
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04:29<blathijs>huma: Can timidity play the files manually?
04:30<blathijs>huma: ie, "timidity something.gm"
04:33<huma>blathijs: nope. it says no instrument mapped.
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04:39<blathijs>huma: Do you have a soundfont?
04:40<blathijs>huma: On debian, that would be the "freepats" package IIRC
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04:40<huma>blathijs: em.. let me check
04:40<blathijs>Not sure if that matches the error message, though :-)
04:42<huma>blathijs: found this in archlinux repo: FluidSynth is a real-time software synthesizer based on the SoundFont 2 specifications.
04:43<blathijs>huma: I don't think ottd supports fluidsynth
04:43<blathijs>huma: Can you find something about "freepats" ?
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04:44<huma>blathijs: oh yes, there is in unsupported repo :)
04:44<huma>i'll try it
04:47<huma>oh my, it's 25 mb
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04:52[~]huma listens to diana krall meanwhile :)
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04:55<huma>yay! :)
04:55<huma>haha!
04:55<huma>it works! :)
04:55<blathijs>:-)
04:55<huma>man! the nostalgia is immense! :)
04:56<huma>blathijs: dank je wel :)
04:57<huma>i'll add this tip to my openttd svn package
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04:59<Ammller>Rubidium: around?
05:00<Ammller>My dbg stopped
05:00<Ammller>good morning all btw.
05:01<Ammller>Cannot find user-level thread for LWP 21837: generic error
05:02<huma>Ammller: oi
05:02<Ammller>thats all I see since continue
05:02<huma>i wonder if Rubidium knows ruby :)
05:03<blathijs>huma: Graag gedaan :-)
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05:28<dihedral>@seen skidd13
05:28<@DorpsGek>dihedral: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 31 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <skidd13> fjb: Its a task in the bug reporting system -> http://bugs.openttd.org
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06:06<dihedral>any tt-forums moderator here
06:06<dihedral>?
06:06<dihedral>i clicked on the wrong button and started a new thread rather than replying to an existing one
06:06<blathijs>dihedral: Can't you just delete your post?
06:07<dihedral>i'll try
06:07<blathijs>or is post deletion disabled?
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06:07<dihedral>good one - thanks
06:07<dihedral>i thought it would leave some kind of trail :-P
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06:24<Phazorx>dihedral/Ammler may be we should ask ops eghre to put it in topic?
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06:27<dihedral>yes - nice idea
06:28<blathijs>what?
06:28<dihedral>#wwottdgd
06:29<dihedral>and read the topic message
06:35<TrueBrain>dihedral: when is it?
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06:37<Phazorx>dihedral: we are playing now
06:37<Phazorx>mostly desyncing
06:41<dihedral>TrueBrain: we are just doing beta tests
06:41<dihedral>getting everything ready
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06:48<TrueBrain>http://nightly.openttd.org/wwottdgd/files/ <- dihedral: all compile-known targets will be there
06:48<TrueBrain>with the exception of the dedicated
06:49<TrueBrain>version is 11255-wwottdgd
06:50<Phazorx>TrueBrain: thank you, i think there is a tt-f thread that might be good to have pinned, and topic note would be nice as well
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06:50<TrueBrain>Phazorx: topic is only useful if you are ready to do it for real
06:51<Phazorx>TrueBrain: betatesting
06:51<TrueBrain>if you want a topic pinned, give me a thread
06:51<Phazorx>dihedral?
06:51<dihedral>yes?
06:51<TrueBrain>Phazorx: yes, non-beta testing I have no problems to put in topic
06:51<Phazorx>tt-f admin availble :)
06:51<dihedral>Phazorx: already sorted that :-)
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06:51<Phazorx>TrueBrain: sorry to bother you then
06:52<TrueBrain>dihedral: did you read anything we said above? :p
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06:52<Phazorx>TrueBrain: we kinda need cannon foder for beta test there :)
06:52<dihedral>TrueBrain: when we are actually setup for the day - we would love a ref in the topic and perhaps one the openttd.org website :-)
06:52<dihedral>about to read now
06:53<dihedral>nice
06:53<dihedral>yes
06:53<TrueBrain>dihedral: both no problem
06:53<dihedral>well - it would be the same thread (wwottdgd)
06:54<dihedral>did you see the 32 client screenshot?
06:55<dihedral>TrueBrain: i am hoping to be ready for the game, once i have heard from skidd13 :-P
06:56<TrueBrain>and please do use the binaries from the compile-farm
06:56<TrueBrain>they are prooven to work correctly :p
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06:56<Phazorx>good
06:56<dihedral>ok
06:56<dihedral>shall do
06:56<Phazorx>cus ammler's doesnt like ttf and -s
06:57<TrueBrain>Exactly why I tell you :)
06:57<TrueBrain>have to go now, bye!
06:57<Phazorx>and my compiled one fails on conenct with no errors
06:57<dihedral>cu TrueBrain and thanks a bunch
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07:00<Phazorx>hmm... same issues with official bin: -m null works, -s null CTDes
07:11|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5D1F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:11<skidd13>Hi
07:14<dihedral>skidd13:
07:14<dihedral>check out #wwottdgd
07:15<mcbane>and then?
07:16<dihedral>join the game
07:16<dihedral>we had over 32 clients connected an hour ago
07:16<skidd13>:)
07:17<mcbane>can anyone tell my why ecs unsyncs after a player begins to construct.?
07:19<AntB>Does anyone know what libraries I need to compile with Dev-Cpp (if I can compile with that)?
07:20<+glx>AntB: there's no project file for Dev-Cpp
07:20<AntB>crud...
07:20<+glx>and Dev-Cpp uses Mingw
07:21<dihedral>glx: come over and pay us a little visit :-)
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08:11<ln->did i paste this already: http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Boeing_757-200_Aviation_Video-8457.html
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08:15<Phazorx>ln-: looks very much like photoshop
08:19<ln->update your glasses
08:20<Phazorx>smoke + fire is fake
08:20<Phazorx>especialy smoke
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08:24<ln->Phazorx: and the radio traffic?
08:24<hylje>wat
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08:31<ln->Phazorx: you know, smoke does exist in real life, too, and is often caused by fire.
08:31<hylje>say it aint so
08:35<Sacro>dihedral: they appear to be playing chequers in your server
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08:37<dihedral>which one?
08:37<dihedral>Sacro: which server?
08:37<Sacro>dihedral: wwottdgd
08:37<dihedral>yes - that's ok
08:37|-|Ihmemies [ihmemies@a88-113-24-180.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
08:38<dihedral>check this out http://openttd.dihedral.de/servers/wwottdgd/
08:39<Sacro>mm, pretty
08:39<Sacro>though its not valid xhtml
08:40[~]Sacro confiscates dihedral's valid xhtml signi
08:40<Sacro>*sign
08:40<Ihmemies>not! valid! omg!!
08:41<hylje>wtf is this wwottdgd
08:41<Sacro>dihedral: why are all the trams available from 1920? that looks like a bug
08:41<Ihmemies>what's the point of that page :P
08:42<Ihmemies>some.. server?
08:42<Ihmemies>uh
08:43<dihedral>it's live server data from the wwottdgd beta test server
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08:43<dihedral>wwottdgd does not stand for Whalt Would OpenTTD Guys DO
08:44<dihedral>its World Wide OpenTTD Game Day
08:44<Ihmemies>where i could find the build?
08:44<dihedral>#wwottdgd
08:44<dihedral>or on openttd.dihedral.de
08:44<dihedral>or in the forums
08:44<dihedral>and read the topic of that channel
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08:47<Sacro`>hmm:\
08:47<Sacro`>dihedral: what was that channel again?
08:47<dihedral>#wwottdgd
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09:33<fjb>Hi
09:35<blathijs>ey fjb
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09:50<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11257 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix (r11145): wrong endian used when preparing text ref stack
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09:57<skidd13>Anyone who gets the Mersenne Twister Randow Number generator working?
09:58<skidd13>:%S /Randow/random/
10:06<fjb>No, not really.
10:06<skidd13>Ah got it. Missed one define
10:07<fjb>Will that become a new random number generator for OpenTTD?
10:08<skidd13>I noticed that piece of code yesterday and wanted to try it. No idea what are the plans about it.
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10:20<Phazorx>Rubidium / TrueBrain
10:20<Phazorx>apparently reason for desyncs we had on beta test server was not relevant to the patch
10:20<Phazorx>and was caused by triggering wagon speed limits
10:21<Phazorx>being switched off before clients have joined
10:22<mcbane>phasor when i used ECS i build a rail way and the other moved there he desynced.
10:22<Phazorx>i have a feeling that since vehicles speed is updated when they reconfigured in depot, that information is cached soemwhere on server, but then client join they calculate speed based on current settings and not aware that trains should be going slower
10:22<Phazorx>mcbane: on #openttdcoom.dev?
10:22<Phazorx>this isnt ECS relevant bug tho
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10:25<Maedhros>skidd13: it's been there for years, but it's never been made multiplayer safe, so it hasn't been used
10:25<Phazorx>Maedhros: perhaps you have a comment about what i just metioned?
10:26<skidd13>Maedhros: Sad. It works nicely in singleplay.
10:28<Maedhros>Phazorx: i haven't looked at that bit of code, so not at the moment ;)
10:33<mcbane>phazorx: ?
10:33<Phazorx>mcbane: we are not using ecs at the moment and that desync is unlikely relevant to NI, and i was wondering on what server did you get the desync you describe
10:34<Phazorx>was it one that runs in #openttdcoop.dev?
10:34<dihedral>TrueBrain:
10:34<mcbane>i was trying it in lan network
10:34<dihedral>you have a script to make pisg change autopilots lines to actually get credited to the actual players?
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10:50<mcbane>hmm
10:50<mcbane>if i scoll over my rail lines then .. boom.. desync..
10:52<Phazorx>strange
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11:10<mcbane>bjarni (i think it was him) said coalpowerplant has been fixed also , but i still have no sulphur..
11:10<mcbane>but im sure i have the latest versions of the datafiles of ecs.
11:10<+glx>using recent nightly?
11:10<mcbane>yes
11:11<mcbane>11255
11:11<mcbane>got 33 industries.
11:11<+glx>works for me
11:12<mcbane>strange
11:12<mcbane>in what order did you load em?
11:12<+glx>new game or loaded game?
11:13<mcbane>the esc grf files.
11:13<TrueBrain>dihedral: <publicserver> Name: is replaced by <Name>, yes
11:13<+glx>I put them in grfid order
11:13<TrueBrain>and pisg doesn't do that, but the log-files are changed
11:13<Phazorx>glx / TrueBrain: can you comment on what i stated here ~50 min ago on wagon speed limits disabling and desyncs?
11:13<fjb>I get sulphur in temperate climatic, but not in alpine climatic.
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11:15<hylje>newindustries makes me want a fantasy set for o?ttdp?
11:15<hylje>a toyland which isn't just as silly
11:15<+glx>fjb: don't mix industry sets
11:15<mcbane>glx: town , basic,chem,machinery,wood,construction,agricultur?
11:15<+glx>mcbane: yes
11:16<mcbane>strange
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11:16<fjb>I use the besic vector for arctic climate.
11:16<fjb>basic
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11:18<+glx>fjb: using only ECS ?
11:18<fjb>Yes, Georges ECS vectors and long vehicles and Michaels DBSetXL.
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11:19<Petar>moi
11:20<Petar>*moin
11:20<fjb>Moin
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11:20<Petar>fjb, sprichst du Deutsch?
11:21<+glx>fjb: works for me
11:21<Petar>unwell. Someone else who speaks English?
11:22<Petar>ehrm, I mean German ;-)
11:22<+glx>only English is allowed here ;)
11:22<fjb>Petar: Ja, ich spreche Deutsch.
11:23<fjb>Petar: I'm speaking english, too.
11:23<fjb>:-)
11:23<fjb>glx: Maybe it's the alpine.grf that makes trouble with ECS.
11:24<+glx>compare with ttdp
11:24<Petar>unwell. Okay, I'll try it. - I want to realize in OpenTTD something like the mainstation of Zurich. may be 53 tracks, and over 800 trains leaving and connecting. - The problem is with normal signals I can not realize this. I have to choose the PBS signales. - Does someone know a good tutorial for PBS signals?
11:24<+glx>no PBS in ottd
11:25<Petar>but why?
11:25<+glx>not coded
11:25<+glx>and not easy to code
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11:26<mcbane>same here petar =D
11:28<mcbane>ok glx.
11:28<mcbane>i tried on other comp and it works..
11:28<mcbane>totally strange
11:29<mcbane>but still i can desync lan game with esc,.
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11:40<Phazorx>peter there are ways to deal with load
11:40<Phazorx>and PBS is not the only one... mind you i have no idea what kind of CPU 800 PBSed trains will requite but it is at least 5x to what normal game does
11:41<peterbrett>Zurich station is fun :)
11:42<peterbrett>How about starting small(er), and doing Basle?
11:44<SmatZ>PBS is not "imaginary"? can real trains go on the same signal segment?
11:45<dihedral>Smatz yes
11:45<fjb>Yes they can.
11:45<SmatZ>scary :-/
11:45<hylje>i think it's only when the switches are set correctly
11:46<fjb>Yes, it is only possible when their paths don't cross.
11:47<fjb>Real signals ususally show red and go to green only when a train enters that signal block.
11:47<hylje>defaults to red
11:49<fjb>That's why I like Teekis proposal for a new signal system in OpenTTD. But Tekki seams to have disaapeared.
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11:50<Sacro>*coughs* not just his
11:51<fjb>Oh, ok, sorry Sacro.
11:53<hylje>it's okay to ignore Sacro
11:53<Wolf01>/sito OTTD_related/lego/T.png
11:53<Petar>what is with http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Realistic_Path_Based_Signalling#Bi-directional_double_track_in_the_proposed_new_PBS_system ?! - Is this realized yet?
11:53<Wolf01>mh
11:53[~]Wolf01 http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/T.png
11:53<Wolf01>comments?
11:54<Sacro>what word do german people really mean when they translate to "Realized"
11:55<fjb>Petar: That is the proposal I talked about.
11:55<hylje>Wolf01: pretty cool
11:55<dihedral>Wolf01: that looks good
11:55<fjb>Sacro: It means: Is it implemented yet?
11:55<Sacro>fjb: well why not used "Implemented"
11:56<Wolf01>i think that the - - - - line is not so good, but i'm poor of ideas
11:56<fjb>Sacro: I would like to see you writing german: :-)
11:58<Sacro>Warum?
11:58<Maedhros>using "realised" there is valid english as well... ;)
11:58<fjb>Not everybody speaks english that well.
12:00<Sacro>bug: the ukrs grainflow hopper shows (refittable) when it has no refit options
12:01<Maedhros>yeah, it's always done that - (technically it's true too - it *is* refittable, but none of the cargoes it's refittable to are available)
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12:03<Petar>ehrm, are there plans to programm a tool to build signals into tunnels?
12:04<Maedhros>not at the moment
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12:04<Maedhros>tunnels (and bridges) don't actually exist on the map - only the entrances and exits do
12:04<Maedhros>vehicles just move in straight lines between them at a constant speed
12:06<fjb>How do trains break down on bridges then? :-) (Yes, I know, bridges are called a black hole in the source.)
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12:07<Petar>Maedhros: but whats the problem? is it to difficult to programm this or is the problem the human? ^^
12:07<Maedhros>ok, ok, so the speed is not necessarily constant ;)
12:07<Maedhros>but they still don't know anything about their surroundings - their breakdown counter has just reached 0
12:07<Maedhros>Petar: both - it's difficult to program, and no-one's attempted it ;)
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12:10<Sacro>grr
12:11<Petar>Maedhros: it's funny. I don't know, how to programm in C very well, but I am very good in informatics (i am studying it). - I am our man, how can I help you^^?
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12:12<peterbrett>Would be nice to have PBS in 0.7 :(
12:13<Noldo>it would be nice to have everything NOW!
12:13<Maedhros>Petar: one of things you'd need is a way to actually store the signals and the signal state on the map
12:13<Maedhros>you'd also need a way to build them - the gui isn't really set up for that at the moment
12:13<Maedhros>adding layers to the map array is one option that has been suggested for storing the signals
12:14<Maedhros>you'd also need to update the vehicle controllers to check the signals, and you might need to update the signal code to take tunnels and bridges into account
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12:16<Maedhros>and one of the main things you need is time, which i don't have all that much of anymore :-(
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12:16<Petar>okay, i think, i am better in playing openttd than programming^^
12:17<peterbrett>I can't help but wonder if it would be worth using a sparse map array
12:18<peterbrett>Divided into tiles (say 32x32)
12:18<Petar>a dirty idea might be to say that tunnels and bridges are like normal rail lines, but on tunnels and bridges is a graphical layer which "hides" them. - in the gui setting you can turn the layer on and off, and so you can build signals
12:18<peterbrett>And you only add extra layers to the tiles which need them
12:19<SmatZ>http://88.146.45.107/ttd/tunnel2.png
12:19<SmatZ>something I am working at, but it takes 'some time'
12:19<Petar>SmatZ: yeah, something I though
12:19<Maedhros>ooh, impressive :)
12:19<peterbrett>funfunfun
12:20<SmatZ>:)
12:20<Ihmemies>just remember to make some nice gfx for the currently black titles too :P
12:21<fjb>That look really good.
12:22<SmatZ>it is not hard to place only rails, but this way you can see the rectangle it is built at...
12:22<dihedral>what on earth is that SmatZ
12:22<fjb>I have to leave you now. I'm going to meet some friends for an evening full of non digital games. :-)
12:22<Petar>tschüss fjb ;-)
12:22<fjb>Have fun.
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12:23<SmatZ>dihedral: haven't seen that yet? :)
12:23<dihedral>no :-)
12:23<dihedral>it looks like a cool feature
12:23<peterbrett>What are these "non-digital games" of which he speaks?
12:24<Petar>sex, drugs and rock'n'roll?!
12:24<dihedral>lol
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12:28<Petar>what's with the "new" renderengine? i read something about a new renderengine?! (ottd renders graphics^^?)
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12:53<TrueBrain>Petar: most likely you mean the 32bpp
12:54<Petar>yeah, thanks
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13:36<dihedral>is there an easy way to make max_loan something like 4 or 8 mio?
13:37<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, change the conversion factor in your custom currency :p
13:40<dihedral>no seriously
13:40<hylje>yes not seriously
13:40<dihedral>for a 55 client game, with a bunch of coopers
13:40<dihedral>1 mio might be trickey
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13:41<hylje>haha, 55
13:41<hylje>how large maps
13:41<hylje>-s
13:42<dihedral>1024^2
13:42<dihedral>it's running right now
13:42<dihedral>and we already had 32 clients connected
13:42<Amix^>what is the real difference between railroad tycoon and transport tycoon?
13:42<dihedral>#wwottdgd
13:42<Amix^>that railroad tycoon is only trains?
13:42<Amix^>;p
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14:14<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11258 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#1325]: if a Load Amount callback returns 0, it means (according to TTDP's source code, not "the" specs) that it should take the "default" one.
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14:27<dihedral>> SmatZ has left the game (general error) <--- when can that happen? never seen it before?
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14:29<SmatZ>likely I forgot to use the server patch
14:29<SmatZ>yes I did, sorry
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14:33<dihedral>SmatZ: lol
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14:45[~]Wolf01 http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/someroads.PNG
14:45<Wolf01>another little preview
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14:46<SmatZ>looks like original Lego parts :)
14:46<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11259 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1331]: the wrong song was played in the first intro game of a single OTTD session.
14:46<Wolf01>but i didn't draw the zebras :P
14:47<SmatZ>I saw only the straight ones... :)
14:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11260 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Codechange: replace a magic number by a less magic enumified constant. Patch by ammler.
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14:50<mcbane>so whats that means (more clients?)
14:50<SmatZ>no...
14:51<SmatZ>only replaces one numerical constant with enumerated one
14:51<mcbane>ah.
14:57<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11261 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: Draw selection sprites (HT_RECT, HT_POINT, HT_RAIL) on foundations as ChildSprite of the foundation, not as single ParentSprite. Patch by frosch.
14:59<Wolf01>does this mean that the square selection is not more covered by the tile?
15:01<Rubidium>you mean foundation?
15:01<Rubidium>if so, then yes
15:01<Wolf01>yes, when the tile has foundations, the square is offten covered by the raised tile
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15:07<bruce89>Rubidium: thanks for that
15:07<bruce89>funny nobody reported it before
15:11<Rubidium>s/reported/noticed/ maybe?
15:11<bruce89>it's reasonably obvious, mabye people don't have the music
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15:12<skidd13>hi
15:13<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11262 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#1330]: do not check for vehicles that are not on the ground when removing owned land, furthermore do not check for shadows (of aircraft).
15:13<dihedral>hi
15:13<bruce89>which is the best thing in the game
15:13<dihedral>bruce89: did you hear my remix
15:13<dihedral>?
15:13<Rubidium>bruce89: only if timidity wants to play it nicely
15:13<Rubidium>it's kinda resource heavy
15:14<bruce89>remix?
15:14<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/TTDThemeRemix01.mp3
15:14<dihedral>working on getting the sax to hold the notes just a wee tick longer
15:14<Sionide>ohh
15:14<skidd13>Rubidium: You complained over the original town layout bridge behavior. Did you check FS1338?
15:16<Sionide>dihedral, this is your replaced some of the instruments remix
15:16<Sionide>sounds cool
15:16<Sionide>get rid of the opening bit though..
15:16<Sionide>TTO is way better
15:16<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11263 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp landscape.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Reduce code duplication between DrawBridgePillars and HasFoundation{NW|NE}. Patch by frosch.
15:16<Kommer>TTO?
15:18<Sionide>yeah original
15:18<Sionide>the original theme tune
15:18<Sionide>not the transport tycoon deluxe on
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15:19<Kommer>ow.never heard that one
15:20<dihedral>Sionide: i shall do a complete remix of that too
15:20<dihedral>Rubidium: i can buy vehicles and sell vehicles in paused mode, but cannot give orders??
15:21<bruce89>svnup.sh doesn't work
15:22<Rubidium>bruce89: works fine here
15:22<bruce89>maybe it was the svn server
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15:24<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11264 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replace a lot of magic numbers with enums for the rail and road GUIs. Patch by skidd13.
15:25<bruce89>I don't get any music on start now
15:25[~]Wolf01 http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lego/T2.PNG
15:25<Wolf01>which is better?
15:26<bruce89>Wolf01: left
15:26<mcbane>left , thinner lines.
15:27<Wolf01>both have the same lines, the right has only longer lines :P
15:27<skidd13>Wolf01:maybe less lines look better.
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15:30<dihedral>the lines look a little wobbely
15:31<Wolf01>'cause my antialiasing ability is not much trained :P
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15:47<bruce89>dihedral: did you just replace some instruments with other ones
15:48<dihedral>yes aswell
15:48<dihedral>some stereo effects
15:48<dihedral>and deleted some others
15:48<dihedral>moved some instruments further into bg other fg
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15:52<bruce89>what happened to the theme between TT and TTD
15:56<skidd13>Rubidium:nice idea with the bit shifting!
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15:58<bruce89>why is the code supposed to be C++, it looks like C mostly
16:01<skidd13>bruce89: The 0.5 series is mostly plain C (yapf, etc. excluded). Its hard work to convert all code from C to C++. You can compile C code with a C++ compiler so the conversion can be done step by step.
16:02<bruce89>of course
16:02<bruce89>why bother converting though
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16:03<skidd13>C++ has advantages. And a bastard of C and C++ is not nice.
16:03<Maedhros>eh, i'm a C coder, so it works for me ;)
16:03<bruce89>Linus has some things to say about ++
16:04<Maedhros>Linus has some things to say about a lot of things
16:04<skidd13>Linus is human and no god!
16:04<Maedhros>although if he's talking about C++ in the kernel he's more than likely to be right
16:04<dihedral>linus comments on anything and everything
16:05<bruce89>it was in git
16:05<bruce89>somebody was shocked to see git was in C, and he said something about bad things being written in C++
16:05<bruce89>so all things in C++ are bad apparently
16:05<dihedral>and besids linus' oppinion on stuff, everybody here has their on
16:06<Prof_Frink>Write everything in brainfuck!
16:06<bruce89>go back to assembly
16:06<ln->Look what Linus has to say: http://aia.yi.org/fun/linus-speedo-mach.jpg
16:07<skidd13>bruce89: assembly <- you seem to be on the wrong IRC room the one from TTDPatch is over there ;)
16:07<bruce89>those are 2 words you hope to never see toghether
16:07<bruce89>linus and speedo that is
16:12<Prof_Frink>Could be worse. Could be rms.
16:12<bruce89>I suppose so
16:16<Ammller>Rubidium: around? I have really bad output on my debugger
16:16|-|FlowaPowa [~Flowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: FlowaPowa]
16:16<Ammller>(or even no output)
16:16<Maedhros>Ammller: i think he's gone to bed
16:17<bruce89>no output in a debugger?
16:18[~]Wolf01 quits
16:18<Wolf01>'night all
16:19<skidd13>night
16:19|-|Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-239-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:19<Ammller>but exits almost hourly
16:19<Ammller>does openttd.cfg support include an other file?
16:19<Ammller>so we could have one file with banned IPs for all servers
16:19<+glx>no
16:19<skidd13>Ammller: what about a script included in the autopilot?
16:20<CIA-5>OpenTTD: maedhros * r11265 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Feature: Make more advanced rail types more expensive to build.
16:21<bruce89>ooohhhhhhh
16:22<Ammller>Continuing.
16:22<Ammller>Cannot find user-level thread for LWP 3900: generic error
16:22<Ammller>(gdb) quit
16:22<dihedral>Ammller: the banned ip's dont even get written to the cfg during the game
16:22<Ammller>thats all I get
16:22<Ammller>Maedhros: cool thing
16:22<Maedhros>and with that, it's time for me to go to bed
16:22<Maedhros>good night :)
16:22<dihedral>good night
16:22<skidd13>good night
16:22<Ammller>thank you very much Maedhros :)
16:22<dihedral>me too
16:22<dihedral>g'night
16:22|-|Maedhros [~jc@host86-136-161-69.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: good night]
16:23<skidd13>Ammller: How was the more clients test run?
16:23<Ammller>technically no problems
16:23<skidd13>:)
16:23<dihedral>skidd13: twas awsome :-)
16:24<Ammller>:)
16:24<dihedral>looking forward to the actual game
16:24<Ammller>yeah, I need to sleep
16:24<Ammller>over that first
16:24<dihedral>heh
16:24<dihedral>over the numbers calculated or what?
16:25<Ammller>no, they aren't bad
16:25<dihedral>100GB + for 24h?
16:26|-|LeviathNL [LeviathNL@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:26<skidd13>woot
16:26<Ammller>dihedral: ?
16:27<Ammller>@calc 250 / 13 * 55 * 60 * 60 * 24 / 1024 / 1024
16:27<@DorpsGek>Ammller: 87.151160607
16:27<Ammller>dihedral: whats that?
16:27<dihedral>estimated traffic in GByte for a full 24 hours
16:28<dihedral>sorry - missing a /8 there
16:28<skidd13>number of max clients?
16:28<dihedral>55
16:28<Ammller>55
16:28<skidd13>:D
16:28<dihedral>@calc 250 / 8 / 13 * 55 * 60 * 60 * 24 / 1024 / 1024
16:28<@DorpsGek>dihedral: 10.8938950759
16:28<dihedral>ok - 10 gig
16:28<dihedral>+ save game downloads
16:29<dihedral>1.8 - 2.6 mb each
16:29<Ammller>one per 10 mins
16:29<Ammller>hmm, maybe more
16:29<dihedral>well - for an average that's ok
16:29<Ammller>but thats the worst case
16:29<dihedral>yes
16:29<dihedral>exacltly
16:29<dihedral>there aint no point on doing something withough expecting worst case :-)
16:30|-|KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-130-117.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:30<Ammller>we should define companies and their "worker" before start
16:30<Sacro>where is tekky
16:30<dihedral>"worker" ?
16:30<Ammller>players
16:31<dihedral>that is why i though of making a company for each continent
16:31<Ammller>for me its hard work, when I play OTTD
16:33<TrueBrain>dihedral: and, how is it going?
16:33<dihedral>i am really happy - must say
16:33<TrueBrain>do tell
16:34<dihedral>i appreciated seeing so many souls joined together in some strange way via the i-net... adicted to one and the same game
16:34<dihedral>missing out social life
16:34|-|TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd
16:34<dihedral>:-D
16:34<Sacro>i hate the high amount of co-op playing
16:35<Sacro>it really ruins the game and makes the map look so unbelivably ugly
16:35|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:35<dihedral>Sacro: it aint gonna be a forever game
16:35<dihedral>just 24 hours or something along those lines
16:35<Sacro>dihedral: yes, i just hate the people who put huge 4 line tracks and stupid dirty big useless junctions everywhere
16:35<dihedral>lol
16:36<dihedral>Sacro: join company 255 and enjoy the chatter
16:36<Ammller>Sacro: indeed, that should be other in the next time
16:36|-|Osai [~Osai@pD9EB4F4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai]
16:36<dihedral>seriously TrueBrain, i just enjoy watching stuff like that
16:36<Sacro>Ammller: ?
16:36<Sacro>dihedral: company 255?
16:36<Ammller>too many were on one company
16:37<dihedral>Sacro: company 255 = spectator
16:37<Sacro>god
16:37<Sacro>a 2MB save ><
16:37<dihedral>lol
16:37<dihedral>:-)
16:37|-|prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
16:37<TrueBrain>dihedral: and, any idea about the bandwidth usage?
16:38<dihedral>10 gig + downloading the map
16:38<dihedral>that's for 24 hours
16:38<dihedral>on net_frame_freq = 2
16:38<Ammller>but worst case
16:39<TrueBrain>@calc 10 * 1024 * 1024 / 24 / 60 / 60
16:39<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 121.362962963
16:39<TrueBrain>121 kb/sec
16:39<TrueBrain>how many players?
16:39<Ammller>or even best case
16:39<dihedral>55
16:39<TrueBrain>not bad
16:40<dihedral>sounds about right
16:40<dihedral>that actually sounds like net_frame_freq = 1
16:40<ln->let me speak some dutch; P(s), V(s)
16:40<Ammller>we had about 100k when 20 players were playing
16:41<dihedral>250 with 13, no?
16:41<dihedral>250 kbit
16:41<Ammller>oh, yeah could be sorry
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16:41<TrueBrain>bah, grfs...
16:41<TrueBrain>I hate grfs! :p
16:41<dihedral>hence the calculation
16:41<TrueBrain>one <unknown> newgrf, lol :p
16:41<dihedral>TrueBrain: and what amazed me most was that even with so many clients, all udp packest still worked a charm
16:42<TrueBrain>udp always works
16:42<dihedral>heh
16:42<Ammller>TrueBrain: just realod the server info
16:42<dihedral>depends
16:42<TrueBrain>udp is designed for that
16:42<dihedral>packet size
16:42<Ammller>TrueBrain: and check the revision
16:42<dihedral>TrueBrain: i am more regarding to the packet size limit, only sending one packet for each type (INFO | DETAIL | NEWGRF)
16:43<dihedral>if you have 55 clients, the INFO_DETAIL packet is more than doomed to run out of space
16:43<dihedral>make that DETAIL_INFO :-P
16:44<dihedral>anyhow - i need to get to bed now
16:44<dihedral>have quite some stuff to work on tomorrow
16:44<TrueBrain>lol, .tar support seems totally broken :)
16:45<TrueBrain>euh, nevermind
16:45<TrueBrain>UDP newgrf is broken :p
16:45<TrueBrain>hehe
16:45<ln->"not funny!", tron would say
16:45<dihedral>http://openttd.dihedral.de/servers/wwottdgd/
16:45<Sacro>where'd he go?
16:45|-|Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd
16:45<dihedral>heh - those are cached :-D
16:46<Sacro>@seen Tron
16:46<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Tron was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 30 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Tron> let me revert it
16:46<Ammller>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1337 <-- could be closed
16:46<Sacro>Ammller: but it's 1337 :(
16:46<ln->Sacro: again, that was not _the_ Tron
16:46<dihedral>TrueBrain: UDP seems ok on that page
16:47<mcbane>udp?
16:47<dihedral>a packet type
16:47<TrueBrain>dihedral: the naming of newgrfs are wrong from time to time
16:47<dihedral>heh
16:47<Sacro>SYN!
16:47<dihedral>how come
16:47<dihedral>that is odd
16:48<dihedral>SYN is a flag in a tcp packet Sacro, not a packet type
16:48<Sacro>:(
16:48<Sacro>i was hoping someone would reply
16:48<dihedral>ACK
16:48<Sacro>but then, if i don't specify a target, then i probably won't get one
16:48<Prof_Frink>sACKro
16:48<TrueBrain>SYN and ACK are no packets
16:48<Sacro>TrueBrain: they are spacestations?
16:48<dihedral>flags
16:49<dihedral>one bit flags at different positions in tcp packets
16:49<dihedral>syn floods are actually quite neat
16:49<+glx>there's no control for UDP
16:49<+glx>it's just sent
16:49<dihedral>most dsl home routers/modems dont have syn flood protection
16:49<dihedral>glx: data in the udp packets are sent in a certain way
16:49<dihedral>*is
16:50<TrueBrain>Sacro: SYN and ACK are part of the TCP implementation
16:50<TrueBrain>as dihedral says, flags to be set
16:50<Prof_Frink>dihedral: No, data are plural
16:50<Sacro>what is the singular?
16:50<dihedral>you still never have 'data are'
16:50<dihedral>there is no singular
16:50<TrueBrain>data can't be singular :)
16:50<dihedral>hence it's an exception and always 'is'
16:51<Sacro>Etymology
16:51<Sacro>From Latin data, plural of datum (‘that is given’), neuter past participle of dare (‘to give’).
16:51<+glx>datum is
16:51<Sacro>i thought datum actually...
16:51<dihedral>used in the latin language as singular :-)
16:52<dihedral>TrueBrain: did you hear my little ttd theme remix :-P
16:52<TrueBrain>you can only use datum if you use datus too :p
16:52<+glx>datus?
16:53<Prof_Frink>Aah, latin grammar
16:53<TrueBrain>:)
16:53[~]Prof_Frink has quit (Excess geek)
16:53<Sacro>hmmm
16:53<Sacro>graffiti is plural
16:53<Sacro>graffito is the singular
16:53<+glx>like spaghetti :)
16:53<Sacro>are you sure?
16:53<Sacro>spaghetto?
16:54<dihedral>lol
16:54<Sacro>or spaghettio?
16:54<dihedral>sei pazzo
16:54<Prof_Frink>Sacro: Italian hifi.
16:54<Prof_Frink>Spaghetto blaster
16:54<Sacro>spaghetti (uncountable; an individual strand is called a piece of spaghetti or a strand of spaghetti)
16:55<Sacro>glx: are you trying to con me :p
16:55|-|G_ [~njones@202-154-146-188.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd
16:56<dihedral>night ladies ;-)
16:57|-|G [~njones@202-154-146-188.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57<Ammller>nacht dihedral
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17:00<mcbane>hmm
17:01<mcbane>what did you do? i crash less with ecs set now.
17:01<mcbane>err desync
17:03<mcbane>what i dont understand in uk renewal set is that there are trains at 1902 but no passenger and cargo wagons.
17:11<skidd13>Ammller:you want FS#1337 to be closed?
17:14<Ammller>I guess, Rubidums explainations are quite good and the issue isn't really importend
17:14<skidd13>Ok I close it.
17:15<Prof_Frink>How lame
17:15<mcbane>?
17:15<Prof_Frink>Bug 1337 should be "openttd is not 1337 enough"
17:17<skidd13>Ammller: closed as you whished ;)
17:17<bruce89>only 1337 bugs?
17:18<skidd13>bruce89: since the init of flyspray... There has been the SF bug-tracker before.
17:18<bruce89>that's more like it
17:18<+glx>and it includes patches and feature requests too
17:19<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 19; Opened this week: 19
17:19<TrueBrain>we don't have that many open bugs ;)
17:23<bruce89>that's pathetic
17:23|-|FlowaPowa [~Flowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
17:24<skidd13>bruce89: Thats open-source (free time development). How long needs Mircrosoft and other commerical to fix their bugs half a year? OTTD fixes most bugs in less than a few days!
17:24<bruce89>so I notice
17:24|-|Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl10-66-102.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye]
17:24<bruce89>GNOME has 33848 open bugs
17:27|-|FlowaPowa [~Flowa@4va54-4-82-244-103-144.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:27<Prof_Frink>Ubuntu has 32911
17:28<huma>openttd has?
17:28<@DorpsGek>bruce89: Open Bugs: 18; Not assigned: 12; Closed this week: 19; Opened this week: 19
17:28<huma>haha
17:28<TrueBrain>we try to keep it as small as possible :)
17:28<mcbane>@hmm bugs
17:28<TrueBrain>so far we are doing a nice job, so I think
17:29<TrueBrain>mcbane: try thisone
17:29<TrueBrain>@kick mcbane
17:29|-|mcbane kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [TrueBrain]
17:29<+glx>:)
17:29<huma>eek
17:29<bruce89>Evolution has 209 more bugs than it had last week
17:29|-|mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498D166.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:30<bruce89>there wasn't a youtube link there was there?
17:30<huma>it was hidden
17:30<mcbane>very funny brain..
17:30<TrueBrain>tnx :)
17:30[~]TrueBrain hugs mcbane
17:31<bruce89>no wonder there are no admins (or whatever they are called) in #osm
17:31<huma>hey jude..
17:31<huma>osm?
17:31<bruce89>OpenStreetMap
17:31<huma>ah
17:32<TrueBrain>they tell you which street is not accessble right now
17:32<TrueBrain>because of roadwork and such
17:32<bruce89>really?
17:32|-|Rafagd [~kvirc@BHE200150043140.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:32<bruce89>it more of a free world map
17:32<TrueBrain>oh? :p
17:32<bruce89>http://www.informationfreeway.org/
17:33<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/heightmaps/test68.png
17:33<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/heightmaps/test53.png
17:33<bruce89>road map that is
17:34<mcbane>truebrain when generating the map the generator tries where to place the industries right?
17:34<+glx>yes
17:34<bruce89>_Ben_ is an OSMer
17:34<+glx>why?
17:34<_Ben_>Hi
17:35<mcbane>because i was it placing tourist center in the water. and of cause at the end the got flooded.
17:35<mcbane>without a message of cause.
17:35<bruce89>indeed
17:35<mcbane>im not sure how to log such stuff without compile openttd.
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17:42<skidd13>good night
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17:52<Sacro>bounce
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18:10<fjb>Hi
18:11<DaleStan>Rubidium: Re r11258: I think the official lines are "zero is failure" and "If the vehicle has no capacity for that cargo, it shouldn't be refittable to that cargo." But yes, the docs aren't entirely clear on that.
18:15<ln->how does one pronounce "ASCII"?
18:15<+glx>aski
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18:25<@Belugas>[18:37] <mcbane> because i was it placing tourist center in the water. and of cause at the end the got flooded. <--- I saw it too. I'll try to find out why, but it's not going to be an easy task.
18:35<Eddi|zuHause2>DaleStan: it was about loading speed, not capacity
18:37<Eddi|zuHause2>weird, i suddenly have statues and fountains with bare ground instead of paved area
18:37<ln->when can we build underwater tunnels?
18:38<DaleStan>Oh. *grumble* I've fallen into that "load amount" vs "capacity" trap before. The "zero is failure" applies more impressively there, though.
18:39<Eddi|zuHause2>anyway, now my BR 05 can actually carry passengers around ;)
18:43<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: Couldn't it before?
18:44<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: see FS#1325
18:45<Eddi|zuHause2>what i find most interesting is that it actually behaves differently in temperate and alpine...
18:48<fjb>Yes, strange. It's 1932 in my alpine game.
18:49<fjb>Oh, power stations produce sulphur now in alpine, too. They did not in r11255.
18:50<+glx>I don't see any reason for it to not work in r11255
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18:53<fjb>Don't know. They did not in r11255. I compiled r11265 some minutes ago and now they do.
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18:55<fjb>Electrified railways are more expensive to build. That's great. Now there is a reason to also build nonelectrified railways.
18:59<fjb>But there are still three kinds of bank in alpine climate.
19:01<fjb>But I didn't test if it different in TTDP yet.
19:03<Eddi|zuHause2>now i need shunting, to only have to electrify the relevant (steep) sections of my rail network, and still let the trains drive through the entire network
19:04<Eddi|zuHause2>PS: conversion from electric to normal rail should give money
19:04<ln->why would anyone want to do it that way?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause2>to regain the copper used in the catenary?
19:06<Ihmemies>ages ago max year was 2050....
19:06<Ihmemies>is there any limit nowdays?
19:06<Eddi|zuHause2>in 1914, all central german catenary was removed to get the copper for "war relevant" stuff
19:06<fjb>I will only electrify the mainlines now.
19:06<Ihmemies>openttdcoop's year is now 2148
19:06<Ihmemies>i'm just curious :P
19:07<Eddi|zuHause2>Ihmemies: something like 5 million or so
19:07<Ihmemies>cool
19:07<CIA-5>OpenTTD: belugas * r11266 /trunk/src/ (table/sprites.h water_cmd.cpp): -Documentation: Add a few comments. Parts of BigBB's work on shores
19:08<Phazorx>Belugas: got an NI/GRF question
19:10<fjb>Shunting would be great. But it would not be that easy to implement, I guess.
19:11<Ihmemies>hmpf, double mode (ctrl+d) doesn't work on win32 vista :|
19:11<Ihmemies>build11235. is it supposed to still work? :D
19:12<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: apart from the way trains are composed of sub-trains instead of simple wagons, you need a big GUI/Order rewrite, to have them sensibly programmed (from gamer's point of view)
19:13<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm thinking of that way: i have 200 ore wagons, two ore stations, and one steel station
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>i tell 100 ore wagons to go to ore station A, and 100 to go to ore station B, then gather at hub station C
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>then i have 2 small engines with orders "take 5 wagons from A/B to C"
19:14<@Belugas>go on Phazorx
19:14<Eddi|zuHause2>and one engine that says "take 15 wagons from C to steel station D"
19:15<Phazorx>Belugas: estimated capacity in pbi
19:15<Phazorx>it goes beyond 100%
19:15<fjb>Hm, yes, but would it be possible to add an engine to the train just to pull them over a hill?
19:15<Phazorx>then it goes beyound 200%
19:15<Phazorx>then ity gets to 255%
19:15<Phazorx>and then back to 9
19:15<Phazorx>0
19:15<Phazorx>does that number mean anything, and should it overlap like that?
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: yes, you would tell the train "go to A, wait there for engine"
19:16<@Belugas>i have no clue. you should ask pikka himself what is the intended and effective behaviour
19:16<Eddi|zuHause2>and the helper engine you say "go to A, join with train, goto B, split off train"
19:17<@Belugas>Phazorx: have you tested it in ttdpatch ?
19:17<+glx>Ihmemies: ctrl-d has been removed
19:17<Phazorx>Belugas: nope, kinda takes a while :)
19:17<@Belugas>well... nothing i can say either :(
19:17<@Belugas>sorry
19:17<Ihmemies>glx, why :-(
19:18<+glx>blitter rewrite
19:18<fjb>Eddi|zuHause2: that sounds great. When will you implement it? :-)
19:18<Ihmemies>so it's coming back (or something like it)...
19:18<Phazorx>Belugas: it just looks like data bits limitation.... which is probably more engine related than grf
19:18<+glx>it may come back
19:18<Ihmemies>:|
19:18<Eddi|zuHause2>fjb: haha ;)
19:18<@Belugas>Phazorx, keep noticing the behaviour and try to give a save game. it is possibly a bug, but since it is a new feature, it's hard to tell
19:18<+glx>but every try failed for now
19:18<Ihmemies>probably when everyone has those 3000x2000px displays
19:18<Phazorx>i have savegame and screeny
19:19<@Belugas>Phazorx, anything is possible. But i doubt it is related to a limitation of data
19:19<Phazorx>you wanmt the savegame by any chance?
19:19<Eddi|zuHause2>instead of double mode (ctrl+d) you should have separate GUI x2 zoom, and another map zoom in level
19:20<@Belugas>Phazorx: but if you can debug it and eventually propose a fix, more than welcome ;)
19:20<@Belugas>anyway, i have to go to sleep. rough day tomorrow
19:20<@Belugas>night all
19:20<Phazorx>night
19:20<Phazorx>glx: i got a dfesync hint that my worth investigating if you are interested
19:20<Phazorx>not sure if it worth a bug report tho
19:21<fjb>I used a screen magnifier sometimes. :-)
19:21<+glx>Phazorx: I'm not in a desync hunting mood
19:22<Phazorx>:o(
19:22<ln->why does desync abort the whole game?
19:22<ln->that WAS NOT the way it was in TTD.
19:23<ln->in TTD you could have two different realities running on different computers.
19:25<Phazorx>i dont think ttd behavior is correct
19:26<Phazorx>with how desync events are tracekd right now - it is not possible to say what exactly is different aside of the fact it is
19:27<Phazorx>synchronization can be achieved by reDLing whole data set, which is identical to relogin
19:41<SmatZ>:-D
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19:42<SmatZ>two different games, different things are happening, commands issued by one player may have different results in the other game...
19:42<SmatZ>I think the way desyncs are detected is very elegant
19:53<ln->SmatZ: are you saying multiple concurrent realities wouldn't make the game more exciting?
19:54<ln->on one world you destroy an unused piece of rail, on the other one that click destroys your most important airport.
19:55<ln->also trains jumping between worlds could cause interesting signalling challenges.
19:56<fjb>Everybody should have his own alternate reality. :-)
19:56<SmatZ>:-)
19:57<SmatZ>different patch settings, different modifications to ottd...
19:57<SmatZ>yeah, that would be interesting
19:58<fjb>Help. How do I build this station without PBS. :-/
19:59<SmatZ>this is the fun, designing hubs and stations without PBS!
19:59<Eddi|zuHause2>i really don't have fun there...
20:00<fjb>It would be more fun if you could build above a tunnel entrance.
20:00<Eddi|zuHause2>there are situations that really don't work...
20:00<fjb>Diagonal bridges would also help.
20:00<SmatZ>hmmm 3am, good night all
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20:01<Sacro>OpenTTD needs more realistic signalling
20:01<fjb>The presignal blocks are really stupid sometimes...
20:01<Sacro>though how I'd like it is probably too realistic for most
20:01<fjb>Yes, it does. But who does the coding?
20:02<Eddi|zuHause2>the current presignal system is just too simple
20:02<Sacro>i think trains should be allowed to go past 1 reverse signal
20:02<Sacro>so long as it can route to a same facing one
20:03<Sacro>this should allow for bidi track
20:03<fjb>I'll try it anyway. But I should remeber to build bus stops in that town first.
20:03<Sacro>and trains should be routed from junction to junction
20:03<Sacro>not signal to signal
20:03<Sacro>no
20:03<Sacro>junction to junction on bidi
20:03<Sacro>signal to signal on sidi
20:04<Ihmemies>i'm fine with signals ;P
20:04<Ihmemies>now when there's this "press ctrl to fill track with signals" feature
20:04<fjb>Some day I will find out how the pathfinder translates signals and junctions into nodes.
20:04<Ihmemies>signaling isn't annoying anymore as it was before
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20:05<Sacro>fjb: it doesnt
20:05<Ihmemies>altough some kind of priority signal would be nice
20:05<fjb>It is less annoying. :-)
20:05<Eddi|zuHause2>i never used that autosignalling
20:05<Sacro>fjb: YAPF and the signals are independant
20:05<fjb>Sacro: How else does it work?
20:05<Sacro>fjb: the signals use OPF
20:06<fjb>YAPF looks only for junctions?
20:07<fjb>Ofcourse it does... now I'm thinking about it.
20:07<Eddi|zuHause2>YAPF caches long rail sections without junctions
20:07<Sacro>yeah
20:07<fjb>Signals only put weight on the paths betwenn the nodes.
20:07<Sacro>the signals are not at all intellegent
20:08<Sacro>all they do is see if they can go to the next without hitting a train
20:08[~]Sacro is le tired
20:09<Ihmemies>:P
20:09<Sacro>i should stop playing MSTS
20:09<Ihmemies>of course it would be awesome if trains could find their way and not collide with each other without signals :D
20:09<Sacro>heh
20:09<Sacro>that'd not be realistic
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20:10<|fjb|>Ups
20:10<|fjb|>I hate it when my IP number ist forced to change...
20:11<bruce89>perhaps they should have walky talkies instead of signals
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20:11<|fjb|>bruce89: Go to wikipedia and look for train crashes... :-)
20:12<bruce89>hmm
20:12<bruce89>TGVs don't use signals
20:12<bruce89>they're too fast for it
20:12<Eddi|zuHause2>that is not entirely true
20:12<Eddi|zuHause2>they don't use VISUAL signals
20:13<|fjb|>Not only TGVs.
20:13<bruce89>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:West_Highland_Line_looking_north_from_Rannoch_station_01.jpg
20:13<bruce89>just a wee blue light
20:13<Sacro>errr...
20:14<Sacro>thats not a signal per se
20:14<bruce89>seems to work for them anyway
20:14<Sacro>what do you mean?
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20:14<Sacro>its OTW
20:14<Sacro>i would assume anyway
20:14<Sacro>given the fact they're using tokens
20:14<bruce89>in fact, there used to be no signals and they just used big token things
20:15<Sacro>yes
20:15<|fjb|>The signals are in the computers today. The show up on the display.
20:15<Sacro>thats all that is
20:15<Sacro>thats an electronic token thingy
20:15<Sacro>not a signal
20:15<bruce89>one nice railway though
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20:28<fjb>Why does the newspaper always tell me that something will close down when it already has been closed down?
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20:30<bruce89>papers always have yesterday's news
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20:32<fjb>But it should tell what will have been closed down, at least.
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20:56<fjb>Good night.
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 15 00:00:56 2007