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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-17

---Logopened Wed Oct 17 00:00:06 2007
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03:19<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: is there a 'test' squirrel ai i could use to test stuff with?
03:19<TrueBrain>'make regression'
03:19<dihedral|work>what will that do?
03:19<TrueBrain>test all AI API functions
03:19<TrueBrain>which are defined, that is
03:19<TrueBrain>it misses a few now
03:20<dihedral|work>and it konks out if something does not work?
03:20<TrueBrain>and tests if they keep consistent over time
03:20<TrueBrain>see bin/ai/regression/regression.nut
03:20<dihedral|work>but thing like checking if a vehicle is in the depot... that does not really do much appart from returning true or false...
03:21<TrueBrain>so what the regression does: build a vehicle, test if in depot, should be true
03:21<TrueBrain>start vehicle, wait a bit... test if in depot, should be false
03:21<dihedral|work>heh - yes
03:21<TrueBrain>now if that test ever fails, something is wrong with IsInDepot
03:22<dihedral|work>for the api, should it not rather use the is stopped in depot one?
03:22<TrueBrain>this assures as that no matter what happens with OpenTTD over time, the AI API functions keep on giving the same isgnals :)
03:22<dihedral|work>there are 2 methods
03:22<dihedral|work>one that check if a vehile is in a depot
03:22<dihedral|work>and one that check if a v is in a depot and stopped
03:22<TrueBrain>in fact, good suggestion
03:23<TrueBrain>now go and find out what the API currently does :)
03:23<dihedral|work>i was doing the IsInDepot last night
03:23<TrueBrain>if it doesn't check stopped state, please add and provide patch :)
03:23<TrueBrain>oh, there isn't InDepot yet?
03:23<TrueBrain>that sucks :)
03:23<dihedral|work>there is the c stuff for it, yes
03:23<TrueBrain>Oh, wait, it comes from an event :)
03:23<dihedral|work>just no squirrel stuff
03:23<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: either it is in the API or not
03:23<TrueBrain>simple as that :)
03:23<dihedral|work>it was not in the api
03:23<TrueBrain>There is no C or SQ when it comes down to AI :p
03:24<dihedral|work>so i copied the stuff from SendVehicleToDepot
03:24<TrueBrain>But yeah, you are right: when a vehicle enters a depot, an event is triggered
03:24<TrueBrain>so having a IsInDepot is useful :)
03:24<dihedral|work>and changed it to return ::GetVehicle(vehicle_id)->IsInDepot();
03:24<TrueBrain>although in your case: IsStoppedInDepot
03:25<TrueBrain>&& GetVehicle(vehicle_id)->status & VS_STOPPED
03:25<TrueBrain>or what ever it is to check if a vehicle is stopped :p
03:25<dihedral|work>there is v->IsInDepot() and v->IsStoppedInDepot()
03:25<dihedral|work>i think
03:26<dihedral|work>i'll let you know this evening if i can get that stuff to work :-)
03:27<TrueBrain>please do :)
03:27<TrueBrain>now I am back to processor design :)
03:27<dihedral|work>i must say - i did pick out the easiest there was on the todo list :-P
03:27<TrueBrain>you have to start somewhere, don't you?
03:28<TrueBrain>and did you notice the simplicity of the API?
03:29<dihedral|work>yes - but did you notice that i am absolutely unfamiliar with c/c++?
03:29<TrueBrain>did you notice you don't have to know C++ to do the API? :p
03:30<TrueBrain>a bit of copy/pasting, finding the right function, making the doxygen header
03:30<TrueBrain>in fact, a minor 10% of the API is real C++
03:30<TrueBrain>the rest are just redirects and comments
03:30<dihedral|work>you never have to know a langauge that well to make small patches
03:30<TrueBrain>true :) But in the case of the API, it is even worse :)
03:30<TrueBrain>commenting takes 60% of the time
03:30<TrueBrain>an other 30% I spent on copy/pasting :p
03:33<dihedral|work>commenting is very important
03:33<dihedral|work>no comments = bad code
03:34<TrueBrain>in case of the API it is the difference between dead or alive :)
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03:34<TrueBrain>without good comments, nobody can work with it
03:34<TrueBrain>while in the rest of OpenTTD, only the devs need to work with it :)
03:34<dihedral|work>not quite
03:34<dihedral|work>i may believe that you do get quite a few patches from non-devs
03:35<TrueBrain>okay: s/devs/patches/
03:35<dihedral|work>so no comments at all would be pretty nasty
03:35<TrueBrain>patchers in fact
03:35<dihedral|work>yes - the patches need the comments :-P
03:35<dihedral|work>or do the comments need the patches?
03:41<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: where are your psig stats btw?
03:44<dihedral|work>do you use a sed script for openttdcoop?
03:46<TrueBrain>awk in fact
03:46<TrueBrain>but okay
03:46<dihedral|work>you feel like sending it over? :-P
03:48<TrueBrain>in stats/ the file
03:48<TrueBrain>Handle with care
03:48<TrueBrain>the script does little safety checks
03:49<TrueBrain>np :)
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04:34<dihedral|work>@seen skidd13
04:34<@DorpsGek>dihedral|work: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 9 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <skidd13> good night
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05:58<|Bastiaan|>is there a patch to auto replace vehicles on diff. tracks ?
05:59<|Bastiaan|>like, replace all rail vegicles for monorail
06:00<SmatZ>it is not possible
06:00<SmatZ>you cannot have monorail vehicles in a rail depot
06:02<|Bastiaan|>ok, is there an easy way to replace them, like, "clone with diff. locomotive" ?
06:02<|Bastiaan|>or do i really have to replace em all by hand ?
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06:04<SmatZ>I don't know if someone did a patch to do that
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06:05<SmatZ>at least, it is easy to convert rail->el.rail
06:07<|Bastiaan|>thank god :o
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06:32<Gekz>How goes the trainset
06:32<Gekz>still 0.5.3?
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06:39<dihedral|work>Gekz: why does the sunset
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06:39<Gekz>because you're a creationist
06:40<dihedral|work>because in the evening when it gets cooler it's the same as with a pudding
06:40<dihedral|work>it sets
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06:54<dihedral|work>!seen skidd13
06:54<_42_>dihedral|work, skidd13 ( was last seen parting #openttd 13 hours 29 minutes ago (16.10. 22:24), after spending 1 hour 15 minutes there.
06:54<dihedral|work>does anybody here remember sim farm?
07:07<dihedral|work>i am looking for one image of that game... where the towns held a celebration.... :-(
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07:57<Ammler>cd <directory | number>
07:57<Ammler>what can I do with number?
07:57<TrueBrain>very old
07:57<Ammler>(console command)
07:57<TrueBrain>nothing anymore
07:59<Ammler>TrueBrain: you get a number with dir
07:59<Ammler>and then you can change to that number with cd
07:59<TrueBrain>Ammler: in the old days, you could only use the number to navigate
08:00<TrueBrain>now you can navigate via names, but still via numbers
08:00<TrueBrain>but numbers isn't useful anymore :p
08:02<Ammler>strange, I changed with cd to a home outside, but ottd does save still in ./save
08:03<Ammler>ottd is in ~/svn-zone/bin/openttd
08:03<Ammler>how do I save something in ~/website/savearchive/ ?
08:08<Ammler>(some output could be from AP)
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09:27<Ammler>someone around, who can help with debugging?
09:28<Ammler>I have now the assert with packet.cpp
09:28<Ammler>what have I to do now?
09:35<Phazorx>is there a refference in gdb?
09:35<Phazorx>which server?
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09:52<Ammler>Phazorx: mine
09:52<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammler: type "bt"
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09:53<Eddi|zuHause3>but that probably will not tell anything interesting
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09:53<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, you did not compile with debug symbols
09:54<Phazorx>debug symbols would help
09:54<Phazorx>did you run with net=2 ?
09:54<Phazorx>was thre anything interesting there?
09:54<Ammler>as its default in debug mode
09:54<Phazorx>that defult overridde by AP
09:55<Phazorx>unless you set it manually afterwards it is not active
09:55<Ammler>I started without
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09:56<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: so I need to recompile
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09:57<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11284 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: don't reset build industry cursor if it failed
09:57<Ammler>hmm, its possible I forgot that because of update to newindustries
09:58<Eddi|zuHause3>Ammler: maybe one of the gdb gurus can help attaching debug symbols afterwards, but i don't know how
09:58<Phazorx>Ammler: or we can trace that ip in frankfurt and ask a person what did they do
09:58<Ammler>I don't believe he did something special
09:59<Phazorx>missing some grfs apparently is special enough
09:59<Phazorx>and a key to be able to reproduce
10:00<Ammler>possible to see, with which revision someone connected?
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10:00<Phazorx>only if you get tcpdump running
10:01<Ammler>haven't installed that tool
10:01<Phazorx>emerge tcpdump :)
10:01<Phazorx>or apt-get tcpdump
10:01<Ammler>yast -i tcpdump :P
10:02<Ammler>I have a distro, not toys
10:02<Phazorx>a distro that does not come with tcpdump doesnt qualify weven as a toy
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10:05<Ammler>I have posted an other problem 2 hours ago:
10:05<Ammler>[15:04] <Ammler> strange, I changed with cd to a home outside, but ottd does save still in ./save
10:05<Ammler>[15:05] <Ammler> ottd is in ~/svn-zone/bin/openttd
10:05<Ammler>[15:06] <Ammler> how do I save something in ~/website/savearchive/ ?
10:06<Ammler>Phazorx: that sounds like a workaround
10:06<Ammler>so its not possible?
10:07<Phazorx>i was told you can not define any paths in ottd
10:07<Ammler>hmm, I don't find, how to compile with debug mode anymore
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10:07<Phazorx>so all homedirs and globals are workarounds :)
10:07<+glx>./configure --enable-debug = 3
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10:07<Ammler>thanks, i reconfigure
10:08<Ammler>I guess, the assert will happen until tomorrow
10:09<frosch123>Ammler: "Usually, I'll make diffs with svn diff, how do I make proper diffs with diff" <- diff -u
10:10<Ammler>:) thanks
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10:14[~]Ammler has updated Thread...
10:15<Ammler>I don't need any special start parameter for debugging in dedicated mode?
10:17<Eddi|zuHause3><Ammler> so its not possible? <-- it might be with ./configure
10:17<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: thats fine, how?
10:18<huma>anyone using palm these days?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause3>if i understand this correctly, if you specify --personal-dir=/foo, it tries to save in /foo/save
10:21<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, but I like to save it in different locations
10:21<Ammler>I thought thats the need of cd, but then its only for load?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause3>i never tried saving from the console...
10:22<Ammler>I would like to make the server SSH independent
10:22<Eddi|zuHause3>well, then you should patch the save command ;)
10:22<Ammler>hmm, or I could just smylink the save folder to the webserver...
10:23<Ammler>as Phzorx suggested
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10:27<Ammler>does debug mode also alter the revision number?
10:27<Ammler>have a M now
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10:30<Eddi|zuHause3>M means local modifications
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause3>(a "svn revert . -R" solves that)
10:32<Ammler>hmm, if I configure with --revision=XXX and later an other ./configure without --revision, will then the revision be overwritten again?
10:34<+glx>hmm no it will use default rev
10:34<Eddi|zuHause3>a reconfigure should remove that override again
10:34[~]Ammler is recompiling :)
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10:36<Ammler>hmm, why does it compile every file?
10:36<Ammler>usually it compiles only rev.cpp
10:38<Eddi|zuHause3>because you reconfigured
10:38<Eddi|zuHause3>reconfigure triggers full recompile
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10:40<Ammler>I mean, I did reconfigure just to remove the "M" more then once and it didn't recompile everything
10:47<fjb>I have a question regarding pathfinding again. Should "new global pathfinding" be disabled in the patch settings? I have YAPF enabled for road vehicles and trains.
10:48<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11285 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: 'site unsuitable' was always shown instead specified message when trying to build industry ingame (Csaboka)
10:52<Eddi|zuHause3>fjb: YAPF setting overrides NPF setting
10:54<fjb>Ok, but what about planes? Do they have their own path finding?
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11:03<Rubidium>Ammler: is somebody already debugging the crashed server (assuming it's still in stopped in gdb)?
11:03<Ammler>Rubidium: I have restarted, forgot to compile the new revision in debug mode
11:03<Ammler>but it should crash within 24h
11:09<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11286 /trunk/src/texteff.cpp: -Fix (r11228): NewGRF industries assume that the order of animation always stays the same. Patch by Csaboka.
11:10<Phazorx>cant add a bug for 2 days now
11:11<Phazorx>does FS have something against me?
11:11<Rubidium>or your browser
11:11<Phazorx>i get timeout from site
11:12<Phazorx>however same browser has no issue when browsing other side or reviewing old reports i made from same browser
11:12<Rubidium>strange as there were reports made yesterday
11:13<Phazorx>yesterday is really an abstract concept with so many timezones :)
11:13<Sionide>everyone should work on Swatch .beats
11:13<Sionide>internet time++
11:14<Rubidium>Phazorx: well... it at least covers your 2 days not being able to make a bug report
11:14<Phazorx>Rubidium: not necessary
11:14<Phazorx>my yesterday was 16 hours ago
11:14<Phazorx>as i recall
11:14<Phazorx>whoch is not anywhere close to 2 days
11:14<Rubidium>Phazorx: there were people making a bugreport between 40 and 16 hours ago
11:15<Rubidium>so there were people able to make bugreports when you couldn't
11:15<Phazorx>yet again, that is completely irrelevant to the question if there is anything at this time
11:15<Rubidium>so it looks like a problem on your side
11:15<Phazorx>Rubidium: i'm happy for these people, doesnt help me any
11:15<Phazorx>so a problem specific to submitting a bug?
11:15<Rubidium>it just should work; as far as I am aware nothing has been changed
11:16<Phazorx>weee worked oon 7th time
11:16<+glx>8MB save
11:16<+glx>that may be the problem :)
11:16<Phazorx>8mb ???
11:17<+glx>oups my brain failed :)
11:17<Phazorx>C:\BuildOTTD\msys\home\trunk\bin\save>ls -la
11:17<Phazorx>-rw-rw-rw- 1 user group 8628 Oct 17 12:03 wagonspeedlimits.sav
11:17<+glx>8KB indeed
11:18<Phazorx>perhaps save is less than bugreport itself in html form is the issue...
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11:19<Phazorx>well and i made a spellig logic error
11:19<Phazorx>Triggering *wagon_speed_limits* on a fly ...
11:19<Phazorx>if soemone can correct that - please do
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11:38<@Belugas>ping Eddi|zuHause3
11:39<@Belugas> <-- is it your bug?
11:39<@Belugas>i mean... your report of a bug...
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause3>err, yes
11:40<@Belugas>so, is it still a valid one?
11:40<@Belugas>have you retested it recently?
11:40<@Belugas>hello Wolf01
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause3>i didn't
11:41<@Belugas>whenever you'll have time for it, it would be appreciated ;)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause3>still the same in r11265
11:42<Eddi|zuHause3>if you exchange alpine and dbset, the ore wagons show the default cargo of the wagon
11:42<@Belugas>and in ttdp? Or does it react?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause3>as far as i can determine, it's only graphically
11:43<Eddi|zuHause3>i did not test ttdpatch
11:43<Eddi|zuHause3>i'm gonna try that right now
11:43<@Belugas>Good boy :D
11:46<Eddi|zuHause3>appears to work correctly in TTDPatch
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause3>how do i cheat the year in TTDP?
11:48<+glx>cht: something
11:48<Eddi|zuHause3>that even worked :p
11:49<@Belugas>ok, Eddi|zuHause3. thaks for confiming it is still a valid but
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12:04[~]dihedral is compiling noai
12:09<dihedral>TrueBrain: ??
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12:12<dihedral>should noai branch stuff go to category AI (New/Old) ?
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12:23[~]dihedral wonders where TrueBrain could be
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12:25<+glx>out to do some sport
12:25<+glx>was for dihedral ;)
12:25<@Belugas>ho... TrueBrain,not you
12:25<@Belugas>yeah, realisez it...
12:25<@Belugas>sorry :)
12:26[~]dihedral sighs
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12:32<Wolf01>!seen peter1138
12:32<_42_>Wolf01, peter1138 (~petern@ was last seen quitting #openttd 4 weeks 20 hours 1 minute ago (18.09. 21:31) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 29 minutes there.
12:33<Eddi|zuHause3><dihedral> should noai branch stuff go to category AI (New/Old) ? <- where else would it go?
12:33<dihedral>do i know how many attempts the could be for ai stuff?
12:33<Wolf01>i miss peter :'(
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12:39<skidd13>dihedral: ping
12:39<dihedral>sup dog
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12:50<Roujin>did anyone look at my patch (area terraform) since yesterday and found something bad (bad coding, or bug while playtesting)?
12:51<Roujin>since most people voted that they find it useful, i'll make a flyspray task for it...
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12:52<Wolf01>hello Bjarni
12:52<@Bjarni>hi Wolf359
12:53<@Bjarni>err.. wrong Wolf :P
12:53<Eddi|zuHause3>isn't that a planet?
12:53<Vikthor>Eddi|zuHause3: I think it is
12:53<@Bjarni>it is
12:53<@Bjarni>as usual I didn't just pick a random number
12:54<Roujin>wolf01, we might be related ^^
12:54<Vikthor>Not exactly planet, it is star
12:54<Roujin>that is, if wolf is your real name ;)
12:55<Wolf01>eheh, it's not, but i would have liked it :P
12:55<Roujin>oh, then nvm. xD
12:56<@Bjarni>Wolf 359 is a real star, but it's far away and way better known in it's fictional usage where Star Trek has a huge battle with the Borg there
12:56<Roujin>you could still marry someone with that name if you like it :D
12:57<@Bjarni> <-- well, this is the first thing that shows up when I searched for "Wolf 359".... I think I just proved my former statement
12:57<Wolf01>is hard to find a female named wolf... even in italian...
12:57<@Bjarni> <-- and this one is mention later
12:57<Eddi|zuHause3>Bjarni: yeah, i know all that ;)
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12:58<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause3: then why did you call it a planet?
12:58<@Bjarni>and there might be other people in here who don't know those facts
12:58<Roujin>aha, google speaks truth ^^
12:58<Wolf01>eeek star trek links weren't forbidden like youtube?
12:59<@Bjarni>I didn't quote Star Trek
12:59<Roujin>like those popular examples... "complete failure" --> first link George Bush's biography, or what was it ^^
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>i liked "evil empire" more :p
13:01<Eddi|zuHause3>(that ended up in "")
13:02<Roujin>that's a nice one ;D
13:02<@Bjarni>ahh, found it
13:02<Eddi|zuHause3>i don't think it works anymore
13:02<@Bjarni>some guy tried to prove that google isn't the right source for info
13:02<@Bjarni>Is fortran dying: 203,000 hits
13:02<@Bjarni>Is scala dying: 247,000 hits
13:02<@Bjarni>is george w. bush dying: 2,060,000 hits
13:02<@Bjarni>bye bye Bush :P
13:03<Wolf01>tomorrow there is a movie about Bush's death on an italian tv channel
13:05<Roujin>hm. what is scala?
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13:14<dihedral>when does openttd know of the 'client id' or 'unique id' of a joining / joined client?
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13:17<Eddi|zuHause3>i assume TrueBrain is the one to ask about network protocol stuff
13:17[~]dihedral wonders this time when TrueBrain might be back
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13:58<Markkisen>Acid, and haaaaaaaaaaaardstyle
13:59<@Bjarni>what are you talking about?
14:00<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause3: watch football? :)
14:01<@Bjarni>great now the power is unstable
14:01<ln->once you've seen one football you've seen them all.
14:01<@Bjarni>the light just started flashing :(
14:01<Markkisen>Bjarni :D
14:02<Markkisen>I've got a little boring
14:02<@Bjarni>Markkisen: yeah you are boring, but wtf did you just say?
14:02<Markkisen>And im listening to hardstyle and have acid at home
14:02<Wolf01>bah.. 22 years old and at home to watch "a shark tale" instead of go out to hunt some girls... poor myself
14:02<valhallasw>Wolf01: get a life? ;)
14:03|-|Greyscale [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:03<@Bjarni>acid as in drugs?
14:03<Markkisen>As in LSD
14:03|-|scia [~scia@] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
14:04|-|mode/#openttd [+b *!*shit@*] by Bjarni
14:04<ln->Wolf01: you never know when the perfect girl arrives at your door, so better be home to not to miss her.
14:04|-|Markkisen kicked [#openttd] Bjarni [Drug money funds terrorists so you fund terrorism]
14:04<MarkSlap>But hey
14:04<@Bjarni>ln-: that's my strategy
14:04<Wolf01>eheh, you are right ln- ;)
14:05<MarkSlap>I think you are a little hard now
14:05<@Bjarni>well... I did meet a cute girl at uni not long ago... well she was cute until she opened her mouth and then the cute vanished right away
14:05<@Bjarni>what a turnoff :(
14:06<@Bjarni>I started to wonder "wtf is she doing at a university with a mind like that???"
14:06<@Bjarni>could be a visitor though
14:07<ln->or from sweden
14:07<@Bjarni>there was no language barrier
14:07<@Bjarni>well, there could be one... intellectual vs whatever you call whatever she spoke
14:09<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: It's called en_US
14:09<Ammler>glx / Rubidium: its happen again:
14:10<Ammler>and last lines of console:
14:10<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: well, there is no dk_US, but I didn't mean like that. I meant the choice of words and the vocabulary
14:10<@Bjarni>then again en_US tend to lack words as well so in a way... yes
14:12<Ammler>Phazorx: do I have symbols now?
14:12<+glx>yes you have symbols
14:13<ln->Bjarni: btw, the code for danish is "da", not "dk"
14:15<skidd13>Anyone who can help me a bit with GIT? I want to checkout a branch of someone.
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14:17<@Bjarni>ln-: but I'm talking about something that wouldn't classify as Danish, so it would be fitting to call it something else
14:17<@Bjarni>skidd13: I don't know how to do that, but I can tell you how to do that in Hg
14:19<skidd13>:( I want to switch from svk to git cause in svk there is no revision number at these branches.
14:19<Phazorx>Ammler: you do
14:19<Ammler>skidd13: did you read man git ?
14:20<@Bjarni>that's the best I can do
14:20<Ammler>is there something more you need to know?
14:20<Ammler>I mean for debugging?
14:20<Phazorx>keep the gdb open
14:21<Phazorx>perhaps glx will ask you to do more digging
14:21<Phazorx>but we seems to know what grf casused it now
14:21<skidd13>Ammler: partitialy Bjarni: thanks that should help
14:21<Phazorx>and it's like 36 chars string only
14:22<+glx>Ammler: as Phazorx said, don't close gdb
14:22<Ammler>Phazorx: next game will have another grf
14:22<Ammler>but it was everytime one of the last
14:23<Ammler>glx, hmm, I will, but there is a really nice Beer production
14:24<Phazorx>beer production?
14:24<Ammler>with PBI
14:24<Phazorx>the bug seems to appear in ukrs addon rather than pbi
14:24<Ammler>Cottbus Beer
14:25<Ammler>as I already said, the GRF has nothing to do with taht
14:25<Ammler>its just of the last
14:25<Phazorx>i tihnk it is the last
14:26<+glx>Phazorx: the problem is not the grf
14:26<Phazorx>glx: you sure that nothing specific to GRF with longest name out of the whole list has anything to do with buffer overflow?
14:27<Ammler>yes, but independent on the specific grf
14:32<Wolf01>BigBB, do you think is possible to add the support for the Asiatic faces maybe with a grf? (and so maybe the support for more faces via grf)
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14:41<@Belugas>would require to define new specs...
14:41<@Belugas>nothing allows that, right now
14:46<@Belugas>plus, you would need someone to draw the said face...
14:46<@Belugas>and features
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14:49[~]dihedral wonders if TrueBrain is back yet :_)
15:00<Eddi|zuHause3>you need a sad face? -> :'(
15:02<dihedral> :'(
15:02<dihedral>thanks Eddi|zuHause3
15:02<dihedral>i would not have found the right way to express my feelings without you
15:03[~]dihedral hugs hylje
15:03<dihedral>dont cry
15:03<dihedral>there there
15:03<Eddi|zuHause3>well, technically, i was replying to Belugas, but if it helps you ;)
15:03<Rubidium>Ammler: any way I can communicate directly to that gdb?
15:04[~]dihedral is tempted to type /nick gdb
15:04<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Run gdb in gdb.
15:05<Prof_Frink>run gdb in gdb running on bsd in vmware through wine on linux on Xen.
15:06<Ammler>Rubidium: public ssh key?
15:06<dihedral>and make the private one available ad
15:07<hylje>one shouldnt need to make priv keys available
15:07<Ammler>dihedral, that would break much :P
15:07<Rubidium>Ammler: you mean .ssh/
15:07<Ammler>Rubidium: yes
15:07<Prof_Frink>Ammler: Quiet you.
15:07<Ammler>or an other special one...
15:08<dihedral>Prof_Frink> run gdb in gdb running on bsd in vmware through wine on linux on Xen. <--- that is good... that is real good
15:08<dihedral>lol Rubidium
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15:09<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11287 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: add support for pushing paramaters into NewIndustries' error messages. Patch by Csaboka.
15:10<Ammler>Rubidium: ssh
15:11<dihedral>so you are splitting up into more users now?
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15:34<Rubidium>Ammler: is that server running with 35 NewGRFs?
15:34<Ammler>do you need it correct?
15:35<Rubidium>well, otherwise I wouldn't ask it this way
15:36<Eddi|zuHause3>!calc 273-238
15:36<_42_>Eddi|zuHause3: 35;
15:36<Ammler>Rubidium: Yes
15:36<Eddi|zuHause3>smells like an array out of bounds access
15:36<Eddi|zuHause3>if only you used a decent language :p
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15:38<Rubidium>if only Eddi|zuHause3 would know where he's talking about
15:39[~]Ammler runns to plugin the notebook...
15:40<Eddi|zuHause3>yeah, i'm leaning quite far out of the window, but i associated that 35 entries with the length 36 Phazorx was talking about
15:41<Rubidium>well, there seems to be a obiwan somewhere, though I haven't found it yet
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15:41<Prof_Frink>!calc 850*77.1
15:41<_42_>Prof_Frink: 65535.0;
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15:43<Ammler>Rubidium: if needed you can also include other public key in authorized_keys...
15:43<Ammler>maybe someone else can help...
15:45<Ammler>and we can also keep it until tomorrow, I don't like to be quilty if you don't have enough sleep
15:45<Rubidium>what is the 34th newgrf?
15:46<Ammler>screen 2
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16:12<Rubidium>Ammler: very odd bug
16:12<Rubidium>I can't reproduce it
16:13<Ammler>dosn't suprise me
16:13<Rubidium>I just have to wait till the next time to gather a little more info
16:14<Ammler>but can I start "my" game with it or should I make a new one?
16:14<Rubidium>you can load your game in it
16:14<Rubidium>I haven't started autopilot or so though
16:15<Ammler>hmm, its not needed
16:17<Ammler>Rubidium: did you change something to get more infos next time?
16:17<Ammler>or should I do something else?
16:17<Rubidium>added an extra assert
16:18<Rubidium>should trigger where the problem begins with "showing"
16:19<Ammler>do what you like... :)
16:19<@Belugas>anyone knows where ttdpatch holds the code for its action 7/9 params evalutation? the pendant of our GetParamVal in newgrf.cpp:3361 ?
16:22<@Belugas>good :)
16:23<LeviathNL>is it possible to set a default blitter in the .cfg?
16:24<Rubidium>depends on the version of OTTD. For the current nightlies you can
16:25<LeviathNL>that's what i thought but I can't find anything in openttd.cfg
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16:25<Rubidium>Mr. Says Burp All The Time should know the answer ;)
16:26<TrueBrain>on what?
16:26<+glx>LeviathNL: it is not in it by default
16:26<TrueBrain>works in openttd.cfg
16:26<TrueBrain>add in first section
16:27<+glx>same goes for video, music and sound
16:27<TrueBrain>they are 'hidden' like video, ... what glx says :p
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16:28<@Belugas>is it me or is not up todate with grfact.asm:4212? Or if there are variables that are not needed to be exposed to the users?
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16:28<+glx>what do you mean ?
16:29<LeviathNL>ty, 32bpp-anim seems best on my system, with the other blitters I see the screen being divided in vertical bars when scrolling
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16:31<@Belugas>not mentionned in wiki but referenced in asm: var 80, 82, 89, 8A, 8C, 90, 91, 97, 98, 99, 9B, 9C, 9E, 9F, A0
16:32|-|Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
16:32|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
16:33<@Belugas>or maybe it is internal, and the user do not really need to know about them, like 8C current callback
16:33|-|mode/#openttd [-b *!*shit@*] by Bjarni
16:33<@Bjarni>I realised I forgot to unban him while the system was shutting down.... so I had to start the computer again :/
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16:34<@Bjarni>oh well
16:34|-|Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
16:34<@Bjarni>this time I leave for real... I haven't ban anybody else :P
16:34|-|Bjarni [] has quit []
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16:34<Prof_Frink>Quick! Ban Bjarni!
16:36<@Belugas>or maybe i'm not reading stuff correctly and there is another catch to the whole thing
16:36<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Eat DaleStan's brain.
16:36<Prof_Frink>Then you will understand GRF
16:37<@Belugas>i'm sure he needs his brain ;)
16:38<Wolf01>maybe you can lick him like the poison frogs
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16:39<@Belugas>problem, tough, is that i want to add a variable, and i stumble in this problem.... which number it should be? obviously, it should be A1, but...
16:39<+glx>Belugas: all 80+X in action7/9/D are the same as X in spritegroup GetVariable()
16:40<Rubidium>Belugas: just write specs and then file a bugreport for TTDP not following the specs ;)
16:40|-|Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:43<@Belugas>good night
16:43[~]Prof_Frink really thinks openttd should move away from grf as a primary format
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16:45<Prof_Frink>Hmm, kopete's failing with MSN
16:46|-||Bastiaan| [] has joined #openttd
16:47<Rubidium>Prof_Frink: then write something that is a) better, b) more powerfull, c) backward compatible with grfs
16:47|-|G [] has joined #openttd
16:47<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: That's your job.
16:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: miham * r11288 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
16:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-10-17 23:47:06
16:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 47 fixed by thetitan (47)
16:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: catalan - 46 fixed by arnaullv (46)
16:47<CIA-5>OpenTTD: dutch - 46 fixed by habell (46)
16:48<CIA-5>OpenTTD: french - 46 fixed by glx (46)
16:48<CIA-5>OpenTTD: hungarian - 28 fixed by miham (28)
16:48<Rubidium>then it's never going to happen ;)
16:48<Prof_Frink>I'm the end-user. I think of annoying features and find irritating bugs, you implement and fix them.
16:49<Ammler>and you sponsor Rubidium to doing it :P
16:50|-|Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: bbl]
16:52<SpComb> <-- you obviously want (dun dun dun) XDA
16:52<Phazorx>Prof_Frink: did you send a case of beer tyo Rubi it?
16:52<SpComb>(just to bring back some old memories)
16:53<Rubidium>Phazorx: as if that would help in any way
16:53<Phazorx>Rubidium: usualy helps me :)
16:54<Rubidium>SpComb: so one binary format for another binary format?
16:55<Rubidium>cause XDA is just another binary format just like GRF is
16:55<SpComb>Rubidium: it's more generic! It's even got eXtensible in it's name!
16:56<Rubidium>DaleStan: can we rename NewGRF to XGRF? Just so it is more generic?
16:56<SpComb>best to run that by the OpenTTD marketing department first
16:56<Prof_Frink>Oi! orudge!
16:56<Prof_Frink>Nope, no complaints from Marketing.
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17:08<Jhs>is MiHaMiX here?
17:08<Jhs>or anyone else involved with localisation
17:09<Jhs>i have some questions
17:09<TrueBrain>ask, who knows
17:10<Jhs>well, in the global statistics page it says that my language (Norwegian Bokmål) has 54 'bad' strings
17:10<Jhs>but when i go to language menu » fix, it only gives ten strings in need of fixing
17:10<TrueBrain>they are pending
17:10<Jhs>so where are the other 44?
17:10<TrueBrain>next commit that will be fixed
17:10<TrueBrain>(language commit)
17:12<Jhs>when i go to languages menu » manage, it also says that 54 strings are missing. when i press "show", the ten strings i just fixed are pending waiting to be committed, but the other strings only say "Needs to be fixed soon.". and they were all added in r11269 by Rubidum
17:13<+glx>Jhs: press next and previous in fix page
17:13<Jhs>no next
17:13<Jhs>previous only leads to the same page i'm on
17:14<Jhs>oh, all the other 44 messages are STR_FACE_ messages
17:14<Jhs>which i assume is a new feature
17:14<+glx>it is
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17:23<Jhs>glx / TrueBrain, i also have some more questions
17:23<Jhs>for example, about gender support
17:23<Jhs>it needs to be turned on for norwegian
17:23<Jhs>some of the newspaper headlines are f00ked
17:25<Jhs>And, i need to know which messages are used for the industry names where. (names of industry types (e.g. Factory, Farm, Iron Ore Mine) should not be capitalized in headlines or in names (like Oslo Factory, should be Oslo fabrikk in norwegian)). but i don't know which messages to change to fix that
17:25<+glx>I don't know how to do that
17:25<dihedral>TrueBrain: :-)
17:26<dihedral>did you see fs?
17:27<TrueBrain>did you?
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>I'd say introduce a grammar case "normal" and a case "capital"
17:28<Eddi|zuHause3>then decide on that which one to print
17:29<Eddi|zuHause3>there should be an explanation on cases somewhere
17:30<SpComb>Whitehat Greyhat Blackh#at Asshat
17:31<Prof_Frink>SpComb: I liked that comment
17:34<Ailure>I like replacing the title screen
17:34<Ailure>only one vehicle, and it's a bus entering and leaving the screen
17:35<dihedral>TrueBrain: that would have been the flipping Dev-C++ editor...
17:35<dihedral>i'll fix that
17:35<TrueBrain>Ailure: I would like a patch that rotates the intro games :)
17:36<Jhs>Eddi|zuHause3, ah, good idea. i always assumed cases were about grammatical cases, but that might just as well be one use of them
17:36<Prof_Frink>TrueBrain: Or, randomly pan the intro view around the world
17:36<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: bad idea, intro games are most of the time only good from one position on the map
17:36<TrueBrain>I think that is a good thing
17:37<TrueBrain>anyway, goodnight
17:38<Ailure>[00:33] <TrueBrain> Ailure: I would like a patch that rotates the intro games :)
17:38<Ailure>me too
17:39<Ailure>hell I was considering to program that into
17:39<Ailure>but I was too busy with two heavy courses and forgot about it
17:39<Ailure>[00:34] <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Or, randomly pan the intro view around the world
17:39<Ailure>[00:35] <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: bad idea, intro games are most of the time only good from one position on the map
17:39<Ailure>it worked for rollercoaster tcyoon
17:39<Ailure>although it works better for real games that "titlescreen games"
17:40<Ailure>titlescreen savegames have dead ends and stuff, and is rarely functioning
17:40<Ailure>most of the offical titlescreens are overkill
17:40<Ailure>the TTO, TTD and openTTD one
17:40<Ailure>trying to squeeze lots of features into one place :P
17:40<Ailure>instead of going for something gentle heh
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17:44<Eddi|zuHause3>i think the most loaded one was in the TT Demo, but my memory might be blurry
17:45<Ailure>I have a picture of that one somewhere
17:46<Ailure>that one
17:46<Ailure>oldest demo I belive
17:46<Ailure>buggy too
17:46<Ailure>it's possible to scroll in the titlescreen on that demo
17:46<Ailure>and you don't need to go far
17:46<Ailure>to notice that there are deadends
17:46<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, no, that wasn't the one i meant
17:47<Ailure>I can take a screenshot of the TTO one
17:47<Ailure>non-demo, tha tis
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17:47<Eddi|zuHause3>is that the one with the long suspension bridge?
17:48<TrueBrain>Ailure: strange monorail bridge there...
17:48<Eddi|zuHause3>or was that from world editor expansion?
17:48<Ailure>yeah, TTO had weird monorail bridges
17:48<Eddi|zuHause3>TrueBrain: why? it was like that in TT
17:48<Ailure>dosen't look too bad over short distances
17:48<TrueBrain>I like them :)
17:48<Ailure>but over long idstances it looked dumb
17:48<TrueBrain>we should have them!
17:48<Eddi|zuHause3>i liked that bridge
17:48<TrueBrain>max-allowed-length :)
17:49<Ailure>I would like to see a similar bridge
17:49<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: seconded
17:49<Ailure>as long there's suport every other tile or so
17:49<Ailure>so it dosen't look as ridicolus as in that screenshot
17:49<Ailure>it would mean that bridge would only have two supports in the middle
17:49<Ailure>wouldn't look too bad
17:49<Prof_Frink>monorails are futuristic
17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>placing pillars shouldn't be difficult, with newbridges
17:50<Prof_Frink>they're made of carbon nanotubes
17:50<Eddi|zuHause3>but that brings back an old question of mine
17:51<Eddi|zuHause3>how do i convince ottd to have the transrapid run on monorail instead of maglev?
17:51<Ailure>we already have that today technically
17:51<Ailure>ah yeah
17:51<Ailure>openTTD simple dosen't have unified maglev
17:51<Ailure>unlike ttdpatch
17:51<Ailure>so you would have to change the GRF to use monorails
17:51<Ailure>or add unified maglev to ottd
17:53<Prof_Frink>Or create a human-readable format and port dbxl to that
17:53<Eddi|zuHause3> <- i think this was the demo i meant
17:54<Eddi|zuHause3>doesn't MB's license forbid decompiling?
17:54<TrueBrain>can you make a nice archive page of those screenshots? I like it ;)
17:54<TrueBrain>but okay, I was going to bed...
17:54<TrueBrain>once again: night
17:55<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause3: Well, you write a converter and ask him nicely
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18:00<Eddi|zuHause3>Prof_Frink: well, you come up with a decent spec, and a plan to build a jit-compiler into grf, then we can talk about a converter
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18:02<Ailure>[00:51] <Eddi|zuHause3> <- i think this was the demo i meant
18:02<Ailure>ah yes I seen that titlescreen before
18:03<Ailure>makes me wonder how many diffrent titlescreens there are
18:03<Ailure>seems to be a slightly more recent demo too
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18:03<Ammler>this bridge is in newbridges, imo
18:04<Eddi|zuHause3>i've never had monorail with newbridges
18:04<Eddi|zuHause3>(because of the afore mentioned problem)
18:05<Ammler>we used it here:
18:06<Ammler>oh no, its in the monorail replacement
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18:21[~]Sacro wants to play TTO
18:22<fjb>Hm, you could replace the maglev sprites with monorail sprites.
18:23<Sacro>Ailure: wrong channel
18:25<Sacro>yay, TTO!
18:27<SmatZ>there is a TTO newgrf replacement...
18:27<Sacro>yes but it doesn't replace everything
18:27<SmatZ>yes :(
18:27<SmatZ>I miss the farms
18:27<SmatZ>and the design of windows
18:28<Greyscale>bed now. SNORE
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18:28<Sacro>crappy horrible building style
18:28<Sacro>haet haet haet
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18:29<Sacro>the Stanier 'Crab' is too slow :(
18:29<Sacro>SmatZ: so unrealistic
18:30<SmatZ>are you talking about Ammler's screenshot?
18:31<Ammler>sacro, I don't care about your opinion about buidling style, just like to show the bridges
18:31<Sacro>ooh yes
18:33<Sacro>monorail bridges
18:33<SmatZ>I like them
18:34<Ammler>but not the same as TTO, I realized.
18:37<SmatZ>almost the same...
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18:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truelight * r11289 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add [FS#1346]: added AIVehicle::Is(Stopped)InDepot() (dihedral)
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause3>that picture has a lot of alignment and colour issues with the monorail
18:55<_Ben_>looks nice, but the white/grey amount on the rail varies greatly on bridges
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18:59<Eddi|zuHause3>hm, i'm getting weird jams where there's no reason for them...
19:08<Ailure>are bricks usually transported by air?
19:08<Ailure>I'm so considering to transport goods by air, expect the goods is from a brickworks
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19:11<SmatZ>aircrafts have very low cargo capacity :-/
19:12<Ailure>not with goods :P
19:13<Ailure>they usually have a somewhat decent capacity with goods
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20:24<DaleStan><Rubidium> DaleStan: can we rename NewGRF to XGRF? Just so it is more generic? <-- My sarcasm detector is failing to register. Please tell me you just broke it, and a new one is on its way.
20:25<DaleStan><Belugas> problem, though, is that i want to add variable ... A1, but... <-- What new information are you trying to provide?
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21:16<Nia-Teppelin>So uh, Sorry for just bustinin here and asking a question..
21:17<Nia-Teppelin>Is there a way to bring AI into multiplay games?
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21:19<Belugas_Gone>04:25:14 < DaleStan> <Belugas> problem, though, is that i want to add variable ... A1, but... <-- What new information are you trying to provide?
21:20<Belugas_Gone>Dalestan : the version of OTTD
21:20<DaleStan>Is it possible to do that in a single flat number?
21:20<DaleStan>Or are you just doing "version" and not "revision"?
21:21<Belugas_Gone>yes, revision too
21:21<Belugas_Gone>i have the scheme somewhere...
21:21<Belugas_Gone>give me a minute
21:23<Belugas_Gone>ok got it
21:23<Belugas_Gone>The NewGRF revision of OTTD:
21:23<Belugas_Gone>bits meaning.
21:23<Belugas_Gone> 28-31 major version
21:23<Belugas_Gone> 24-27 minor version
21:23<Belugas_Gone> 20-23 build
21:23<Belugas_Gone> 19 1 if it is a release, 0 if it is not.
21:23<Belugas_Gone> 0-18 revision number; 0 for releases and when the revision is unknown.
21:24<Belugas_Gone>on our side, it willbe something like
21:24<Belugas_Gone>_openttd_newgrf_version = 0 << 28 | 6 << 24 | 0 << 20 | 0 << 19 | @@REVISION@@ & ((1 << 19) - 1);
21:25<Belugas_Gone>it is in fact the specs Rubidium wrote, but it has not yet been implemented
21:26<Belugas_Gone>the pendant of var 8B, in fact
21:27<DaleStan>How do you determine whether you're looking at a build of newgrf_ports, which supports Newairports, or trunk, which does not?
21:29<DaleStan>Or is that the job of some other test?
21:29<Belugas_Gone>i'm not totally convinced branches should be taken into account regarding that
21:30<Belugas_Gone>no other test planned, from what i recall
21:30<Belugas_Gone>anyway, the idea of a branch is to be merged to trunk one day or the other
21:32<Belugas_Gone>but i guess 1 or 2 of the 19 bits of revision number could be used to indicate a branch, if ever it is required, which is not a bad idea, after thoughs
21:32<Belugas_Gone>as to indicate which branch...
21:43<DaleStan>As I see it, the version number is only useful if it can be used to determine the support for the vast majority of @FEATURES, and preferably all. If newairports and trunk use the same range, then this becomes rather difficult, unless some other test is available. Of course, Patch would probably always report either 0 or -1 for A1.
21:44<DaleStan>So the exact implementation in Open is more a matter of making it useful to GRF coders, not Patch coders.
21:46<Belugas_Gone>indeed. Unless a new feature that Ottd brough up (not the case already, but it might be) would be implemented in Patch, as it is the case right now (but the other way around)
21:46<Belugas_Gone>so this is why i was checking for a free variable spot,
21:46<Belugas_Gone>and got a bit... mixed up :)
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21:51<Belugas_Gone>got to sleep
21:51<Belugas_Gone>good night
21:51<Belugas_Gone>and until tomorrow
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21:52<DaleStan>Belugas: A1/21 is indeed free.
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 18 00:00:36 2007