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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-18

---Logopened Thu Oct 18 00:00:36 2007
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02:33<dihedral|away>thanks TrueBrain
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03:27<dihedral|work>does squirrel thread?
03:28<TrueBrain>now that is a clear english sentence indeed
03:28<TrueBrain>I guess: yes
03:28<TrueBrain>But maybe: no
03:28<TrueBrain>depends on what you ask :)
03:29<dihedral|work>would it be possible to let squirrel do what autopilot does?
03:29<TrueBrain>depends on what you think autopilot does
03:29<TrueBrain>really, you questions couldn't be more vague
03:34<dihedral|work>ok
03:34<dihedral|work>let me be as specific as possible
03:34<dihedral|work>as to what i am thinking :-)
03:35<dihedral|work>autopilot has the ability to act as some sort of irc bot
03:35<dihedral|work>or more like a bridge to irc
03:35<dihedral|work>if squirrel threads
03:35<dihedral|work>one thread could connect to irc and keep that connection live
03:36<dihedral|work>if squirrel has the ability to perform such actions that is
03:36<TrueBrain>okay, so you want to know if Squirrel can make its own parallel threads. No, it can not.
03:36<dihedral|work>it could be used to maintain a black / white list based on other data
03:36<dihedral|work>:-)
03:36<TrueBrain>nevertheless, it doesn't need to, to do what you want
03:36<TrueBrain>but that is all in the future anyway
03:37<dihedral|work>so squirrel processing time is actually openttd processing time
03:37<TrueBrain>of course, as it is part of OpenTTD
03:37<dihedral|work>that is why i asked about the threads :-)
03:38<TrueBrain>but AIs run in threads, but they are serial threads, not parallel
03:38<dihedral|work>right
03:38<dihedral|work>that means, as long as the nut script is running, openttd cannot?
03:38<TrueBrain>exactly
03:39<dihedral|work>hmmm...
03:39<dihedral|work>so if one builds some hungy nut script... openttd will lag?
03:39<TrueBrain>yes
03:40<TrueBrain>for AIs for sure
03:40<dihedral|work>so an ai needs to run in it's own openttd instance?
03:40<TrueBrain>not instance
03:41<dihedral|work>but i could not play 'with' the ai in one game
03:41<TrueBrain>?
03:41<dihedral|work>say i start openttd, load a nut script so i have a specific ai
03:42<dihedral|work>could i play in that same game?
03:42<TrueBrain>of course you can
03:42<dihedral|work>or, as the nut script is threaded serially and not parallel
03:42<TrueBrain>you can even start up to 7 AIs at the same time
03:42[~]dihedral|work is confused
03:42<dihedral|work>i dont get it
03:42<dihedral|work>if it's serial threading
03:43<TrueBrain>why would you think a serial thread would block till the end of execution of a thing as a script
03:43<dihedral|work>then i would have to wait for the ai to do it's 'thing'
03:43<TrueBrain>you think it would be useful to put something in a thread, that keeps running till the end of its live from the start?
03:43<TrueBrain>sounds like a good waste of serial thrading :)
03:44<TrueBrain>now consider the simple solution, where the serial thread gives back its control every time a command is issued outside the thread
03:44<TrueBrain>basicly, every DoCommand 'pauses' the serial thread for a moment
03:44<TrueBrain>giving back control to the main thread
03:44<dihedral|work>but that could have influence on the length of a tick, no?
03:44<TrueBrain>so unless you make long long for loops calculating things, openttd won't lag
03:45<dihedral|work>ah
03:45<TrueBrain>the only way to increase the length of a tick, is to make scripts work longer than.. say on an average game the gamelogic takes 10ms, you have say 7 AIs, so that is:
03:45<TrueBrain>@calc 23 / 7
03:45<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 3.28571428571
03:45<TrueBrain>They have to work longer than 3.2ms
03:45<dihedral|work>would it be spossible to 'also' give squirrel the ability to do parallel threading?
03:46<TrueBrain>technicly, of course, but it won't be done for OpenTTD in the longest time I hope
03:46<dihedral|work>i mean - support both, for 2 different purposes
03:46<TrueBrain>not going to happen, is my best guess
03:46<dihedral|work>shame :-)
03:46<TrueBrain>well, simple reason: parallel threads will be limited to.. what... 1 API function
03:46<TrueBrain>which would be.. STOP
03:47<dihedral|work>...
03:47<dihedral|work>let me rephrase that
03:47<dihedral|work>the 2 different purposes being, ai and console :-)
03:47<dihedral|work>so when at some point squirrel becomes the console language
03:48<dihedral|work>when writing a nut script, choose wether parallel or serial
03:48<dihedral|work>(for the console that would be)
03:48<TrueBrain>what I said above goes for any SQ piece where-ever and when-ever in the code
03:48<dihedral|work>k
03:48<TrueBrain>parallel threading won't happen in OpenTTD any time soon
03:48<TrueBrain>even the TGP status thingy isn't parallel
03:48[~]dihedral|work was not thinking of "soon" :-P
03:48<dihedral|work>TGP?
03:49<TrueBrain>if I say any time soon, I mean like in the next 3 years :p
03:49<TrueBrain>landscape generator
03:49<dihedral|work>lol
03:50<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: OpenTTD is NOT thread-safe, in any way
03:50<dihedral|work>ok
03:50<TrueBrain>therefor, you can't have 2 things doing things in the game at the same time
03:50<TrueBrain>console does things in the game
03:50<dihedral|work>right
03:50<dihedral|work>yes
03:50<TrueBrain>cases race-conditions
03:50<TrueBrain>bad
03:51<TrueBrain>so: won't happen
03:51<dihedral|work>:-P
03:51[~]dihedral|work understands that
03:51<TrueBrain>the only way to make OpenTTD thread safe, is a long long long long long long long long
03:51<TrueBrain>did I say: long long already?
03:51<TrueBrain>road
03:51<dihedral|work>you forgot to mention how long it would be...
03:51<dihedral|work>:-P
03:51<TrueBrain>best way of approach would be microthreads, but that requires making classes of all code, and no class can write directly into an other class
03:52<TrueBrain>(so 1 class would be: _map, with tons of accessors (which we in fact already have))
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04:17<gfldex>i was looking for a game that is challenging, fun to play in a team and doesnt take more then one hour per day
04:18<TrueBrain>you found it! :)
04:18<gfldex>all i came up with was VGAPlanets, what we used to play about 15 years ago over BBS
04:18<gfldex>i feel old :(
04:18<TrueBrain>bzflags!!! :)
04:18<Ammler>worms
04:18<TrueBrain>OpenTTD!
04:19<gfldex>takes more then 1 hour per day
04:19<gfldex>and you cant really play it in a team yet
04:19<TrueBrain>depends.. if you puase after an hour :)
04:19<TrueBrain>sure you can!
04:19<gfldex>can you share money and stuff?
04:19<TrueBrain>you can join 1 company
04:19<Ammler>we do that all the time at #openttdcoop
04:20<gfldex>and do you stop after 1 hour?
04:20<TrueBrain>you can pause and continue later, sure, why not
04:20<Ammler>sometimes after half an hour
04:20<Ammler>but others might play forward then...
04:20<TrueBrain>but okay, there are more ideal games for team-to-team :p
04:20<TrueBrain>Quake!
04:20<TrueBrain>DOOM!
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04:21<Ammler>omg
04:21<gfldex>takes all to long
04:21<TrueBrain>Quake? Long? Lol :p
04:21<TrueBrain>my average match length if 10 minutes :p
04:22<TrueBrain>and in my case also: EVE: Online
04:22<TrueBrain>can't play that game for more than an hour
04:22<TrueBrain>makes my eyes pop
04:22<TrueBrain>(because of the boring factor)
04:22<gfldex>i used to play 16 hours in one go at lan parties
04:22<TrueBrain>sure, if you like you can play as long as you want
04:22<gfldex>quake does for sure take more then one hour
04:22<TrueBrain>but then all games don't fit your description
04:22<gfldex>the point is that i want to force myself to play less
04:22<TrueBrain>as you can always play them for a long long time
04:23<TrueBrain>set a power-interupter on your PC
04:23<Ammler>gfldex: then you should look for worst game
04:23<gfldex>and VGAPlanets got a tern every 2nd day so there was simply no reason to play more :)
04:23<Ammler>you are wrong here then...
04:23<gfldex>:(
04:23<TrueBrain>go play chess via email
04:24<dihedral|work>nice idea
04:24[~]dihedral|work sends A2 => C3 to TrueBrain
04:25<hylje>chess over irc
04:25<gfldex>i got so depressed that i started to reimplement VGAPlanets
04:25<gfldex>now i code 10 hours a day and still waste a lot time
04:25[~]dihedral|work might have confused where numbers and chars are located on a chess board
04:25<dihedral|work>http://www.chesscentral.com/chess_rule/pix/chess_board_blank.gif
04:26[~]dihedral|work corrects is last statement, to b1 => c3
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04:26<Ailure>bah stupid IRC client
04:26<Ailure>and oh yeah, just wanted to mention something funny before going to bed
04:26<Ailure>Gotta love how the same keyboard command can differ alot between games
04:27<TrueBrain>d7=>d6
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04:27<Ailure>Ctrl+S is screenshot in openTTD
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04:27<Ailure>but save game in Simcity4
04:27<Ailure>I nearly ruined a Simcity4 savegame that way
04:27<Ailure>D:
04:27<gfldex>you got a lot screenshots, right?
04:27<Ailure>no
04:27<Ailure>the other way around
04:27<Ailure>I saved when I thought I was taking a screenshot
04:27<TrueBrain>Ailure: don't play simcity, problem solved :)
04:28<Ailure>but Simcity 4: Rush hour is addicting
04:28<TrueBrain>or ask simcity if they can give a warning when an OpenTTD users plays SimCity, on CTRL+S keypress
04:28<dihedral|work>desync when giving Kommer's train 9 a goto order http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/FPN/autosave6.sav
04:28<gfldex>so you wanted to keep nice pics of that fat disaster?
04:28<dihedral|work>fixes when selling loc and rebuying it
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04:29|-|mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
04:32|-|Brandinger [ano@c-134-72-44.b.dial.de.ignite.net] has joined #openttd
04:32<Brandinger>hi
04:33<TrueBrain>hi Brandinger
04:33<Brandinger>i've got a little question
04:33<TrueBrain>oh-oh
04:33<Brandinger>:)
04:33<Brandinger>...considering the funtionality of the transfer-button when giving orders to vehicels
04:35<Brandinger>i connected 2 cities for passernger transfer. when i just gave normal goto-orders without any load/unload/transfer he took as much people from one destination and the other way. i got the money and the people walked away.
04:36<Brandinger>then i changed the order to transfer (german "Umladen und beladen"). he throuh everybody out of the train, i got the money but the people stayed at the station
04:37<Brandinger>after some time i got 3000 people waiting at the station because they did not wanted to finish their journey :)
04:37<TrueBrain>transfer in general does that exactly that: move things from one station to the other, but do not unload them
04:37<TrueBrain>useful if you want to bring them even futher
04:38<Brandinger>but i got the money for the transportation
04:38<TrueBrain>then don't transfer them
04:38<TrueBrain>see the wiki-page
04:38<Brandinger>yeah thats what i did not understood ^^
04:39<Eddi|zuHause2>Brandinger: if you use transfer, you do not get any money, just an estimation how much money you would get if you unloaded them there
04:39<TrueBrain>transfer means: pick up at A, bring to B but don't get money (transfer). Someone else picks up at B, brings them to C (non-transfer), and everyone gets money
04:39<Eddi|zuHause2>that's why the money is not green
04:39<Brandinger>ah ok
04:40<dihedral|work>Bandinger "umladen" != "ausladen"
04:41<Brandinger>k :)
04:43<Brandinger>one more question :) how did the trick work to make two different stations one with space in between?
04:44<Brandinger>to make one station with train and airport that are not touching directly
04:44<Brandinger>for example
04:44<gfldex>you make one big station with a connection
04:44<gfldex>and then remove the connection with the bulldoze icon thingy
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04:44<gfldex>like you would remove a signal without touching the track
04:46<Brandinger>ok, thanks alot :)
04:46<Brandinger>i think that will help
04:47<Eddi|zuHause2>pay attention, bulldozing a train station tile removes the entire station
04:47<Eddi|zuHause2>actually, that's the dynamite
04:47<Brandinger>yep so i would use bus-stations for build the connection, right?
04:47<Eddi|zuHause2>early morning...
04:48<gfldex>you can but you dont have to
04:48<gfldex>if you use the single tile paint thingy to drag stations across your screen
04:48<gfldex>you can just start to paint away
04:48<gfldex>and then remove the bits you dont like
04:48<Eddi|zuHause2>you can do that, but hitting the "build station" button, and then the "bulldozer" button on the right (like you do with rails) should also work
04:49<gfldex>isnt there a wiki page with screenshots and all?
04:51[~]Brandinger found this http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Join_train_stations
04:53<Brandinger>alright, thx again and byebye :)
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05:06<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: would there be any outlook on the possiblility tcp or udp rcon patckets that will not require one to be a client to the game?
05:12<TrueBrain>depends if someone programs it :p
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05:21<dihedral|work>well - just adding packet types for udp should be simple enough
05:21<TrueBrain>use tcp
05:21<dihedral|work>do i not need a handshake for tcp?
05:22<TrueBrain>tcp handshakes the OS takes care of for you :p
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05:22<dihedral|work>uh - good
05:22<TrueBrain>but it should be telnet alike
05:22<TrueBrain>udp is too insecure for something like this
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05:26<dihedral|work>k
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05:26<dihedral|work>i'll see what i can do ;-)
05:27<gfldex>if you leave your lan and enter the wild ocean that is the internet you will have to deal with 3% packet loss all the time
05:27<gfldex>if you got asymetric lines with load it can get a lot higher
05:28<dihedral|work>yes, aint all that nice :-)
05:29<dihedral|work>i hate lost packets
05:32<gfldex>i finally found a font i like :) http://www.dafont.com/hard-talk.font
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05:38<dihedral|work>hello
05:42<dihedral|work>clients on my nightly are desyncing a lot when giving train orders to new trains...
05:43<dihedral|work>'a lot' meaning when train orders are being given it may occure :-)
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05:52<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: would that rcon tcp connection need to be to another port?
05:52<dihedral|work>or would a 'packet type' be sufficient to dertermin that
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05:52[~]dihedral|work greets boekabart
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05:52<dihedral|work>just in time :-P
05:57<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: other port, of course
05:57<TrueBrain>rcon should be text-based
05:57<TrueBrain>not binary
05:58<dihedral|work>k
05:59<dihedral|work>another question, just to help me understand...
05:59<dihedral|work>other games tend to use udp for their rcon protocol
05:59<dihedral|work>why then use tcp - i mean - there must be a reason why they use udp...
05:59<TrueBrain>lol!
06:00<TrueBrain>I know zero games who do
06:00<dihedral|work>hl2
06:00<dihedral|work>hl
06:00<TrueBrain>uses TCP
06:00<dihedral|work>and why on earth do you find _UDP_ web interfaces to the rcon
06:00<dihedral|work>q3 uses udp also
06:00<TrueBrain>hl uses udp for gaming
06:00<TrueBrain>for querying
06:00<TrueBrain>but server control is tcp
06:01<TrueBrain>(as you can do it via telnet too)
06:01<dihedral|work>k
06:03<dihedral|work>thanks TrueBrain
06:04<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: you use UDP if it doesn't matter if the other end receives your packet
06:04<TrueBrain>you use TCP when it does matter
06:05<TrueBrain>Rcon -> does matter
06:05<TrueBrain>OpenTTD Game Logic -> does matter
06:05<TrueBrain>HL Game Logic -> doesn't matter
06:05<TrueBrain>(in HL you don't care if you miss 1 update package of a persons position)
06:06<dihedral|work>k
06:06<dihedral|work>yes - does make sense :-)
06:12<gfldex>q3 handles the packet lost "by hand"
06:12<gfldex>so they reimplement the handshake/resend semantics of tcp
06:23<dihedral|work>ah
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06:30<Kilinich>hi, is here someone who try write OpenTTD AI ?
06:30<TrueBrain>search wiki for NoAI
06:30<Kilinich>already did -)
06:30<dihedral|work>:
06:31<Kilinich>and realize that no AIRail clall in framework
06:31<Kilinich>class
06:31<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: didn't I told you? :)
06:31<dihedral|work>tell me what?
06:31<TrueBrain>Kilinich: first try to make a good AI in Road, then come back to us about Rail
06:31<dihedral|work>:-)
06:32<dihedral|work>true
06:32<dihedral|work>dont start with the most complicated :-P
06:32<Kilinich>what isn't related things. ok.
06:33<dihedral|work>?
06:33<Kilinich>imagine that I did it. and then come back... -) so...
06:34<Kilinich>let's talk about rail
06:34<TrueBrain>someone still needs to code it
06:34<TrueBrain>but because there is little enthoisasme in building roadAIs for example, my spirit of doing so is a bit low lately ;)
06:35<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: is there AI API stuff for ships?
06:35<TrueBrain>yes
06:35<TrueBrain>ai_marine
06:35<Kilinich>what is the problem with class AIRail ? why AIRoad done and it isn't?
06:35<TrueBrain>road was easier
06:35<dihedral|work>:-)
06:36<dihedral|work>for ships, can i find out if a ship can atall get from dock A to dock B?
06:36<TrueBrain>so show me a good RoadAI, and I make Rails for you :)
06:36<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: no
06:36<TrueBrain>no pathfinding in API yet, for any class
06:36<dihedral|work>ok
06:36<dihedral|work>would that be a lot of work to implement?
06:36<Kilinich>I don't ask for pathfinding i wan builr rails -)
06:36<TrueBrain>base already is there for PFs, so no
06:36<dihedral|work>Kilinich: I am asking about ships
06:36<TrueBrain>Kilinich: I was tlaking to dihedral|work :)
06:37<TrueBrain>Anyway, Kilinich, make me a good RoadAI, I make you Rail support, and I am pretty serious :)
06:37<dihedral|work>that means, post the road ai somewhere so it can be tested :-)
06:38<dihedral|work>perhaps start a new thread in tt-forums to get others more enthusiastic about it too
06:40<dihedral|work>are there some sort of 'nightly' builds for the noai branch?
06:40<TrueBrain>of course
06:40<TrueBrain>http://nightly.openttd.org/noai/scoreboard.php
06:40<TrueBrain>see NoAI thread
06:40<dihedral|work>i just dont have the options to build on windows
06:40<dihedral|work>and - dont like the thought of it either
06:41<Kilinich>i start my IA already, trying some stuff, i think week-two and i can show it.
06:41<TrueBrain>for all our branches we always supply binaries
06:41<Kilinich>IA -AI -)
06:41<TrueBrain>Kilinich: would be awesome :)
06:41<Rubidium>Kilinich: there were also a lot of people who said they were going to make a road AI when it would be possible. As far as I remember there are still no road AIs, which made us a little hesistant to add more effort for something that nobody was going to use.
06:41<Kilinich>joking yea -)
06:42<dihedral|work>the only thing i could think of would be to use the ai on a multiplayer from my client...
06:42<Kilinich>i know
06:42<dihedral|work>to start the company making some cash before i then take over :-P
06:42<TrueBrain>dihedral|work: it is possible to battle AIs against eachother :)
06:43<dihedral|work>nice
06:43<dihedral|work>is the ai aware of patch settings/
06:43<dihedral|work>?
06:43<TrueBrain>net yet
06:43<dihedral|work>that might be a good thing too
06:43<TrueBrain>yup
06:43<TrueBrain>create it :)
06:43<dihedral|work>:-P
06:43<dihedral|work>add it to the todo list
06:44<dihedral|work>:-D
06:44<Eddi|zuHause2>rewrite the difficulty settings if you're at it ;)
06:44<dihedral|work>nope
06:44<dihedral|work>2 different things
06:45<Kilinich>TrueBrain: that criteria of good Road ai? is there example of what is done?
06:45<dihedral|work>but making the ai aware of intrest rates, subsity multiplyer, breakdowns, 90degree turns for trains, etc could be very important
06:45<TrueBrain>Kilinich: nope
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06:46<Kilinich>making some profit easy, hard to do something compare to people
06:46<Eddi|zuHause2>dihedral|work: yeah, but so is "allow turning in stations"
06:46<TrueBrain>Kilinich: let's say, it can survive for 10 years :)
06:46<Kilinich>lanscaping is free am i right?
06:46<TrueBrain>you are wrong
06:46<TrueBrain>that is OldAI
06:46<Eddi|zuHause2>and accessing difficlty settings is probably difficult
06:46<TrueBrain>NoAI is a fair AI
06:46<TrueBrain>no cheats
06:47<TrueBrain>it can only do what real players do
06:47<Eddi|zuHause2>i mean more difficult than patch settings
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06:47<Kilinich>TrueBrain, have you ICQ?
06:48<TrueBrain>nope, but I do have IRC!
06:48<Eddi|zuHause2>really?
06:48[~]SpComb has bitlbee
06:48<Eddi|zuHause2>can i have that, too?
06:48<Kilinich>and you are always here?
06:48<TrueBrain>always.. hmm.. yes :p
06:48<Kilinich>sorry -0)
06:49<TrueBrain>nothing to be sorry about :p
06:49<SpComb>I don't have an ICQ account, but I'm on MSN whenever my IRC client is up, which it has been for 173 days now
06:50<Kilinich>TrueBrain: what common advice for road AI you have?
06:50<TrueBrain>make it good :)
06:50<Kilinich>10x
06:51<TrueBrain>read some good AI documentation
06:51<Kilinich>wiki?
06:51<TrueBrain>I myself am pretty bad in AIs :p
06:52<Kilinich>I myself a good AI -)
06:52<Kilinich>so I just clone it
06:52<Kilinich>and translate to squirrel
06:54<TrueBrain>squirrel is almost equal to C++, so if you know that, you should be fone
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07:08<dihedral|work>http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/WWOTTDGD1
07:09<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: can you pin the wwottdgd thread in the OpenTTD General Forum
07:10<Eddi|zuHause2>i finally think i got this station entrance right: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2020.%20Okt%201947.png
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07:18<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: diagonal foundations needed :P
07:18<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: yeah, that would be nice sometimes
07:19<Eddi|zuHause2>also, diagonal bridges and CBR, because those tunnels are unrealistic
07:19<Ammler>it also looks like typical PBS
07:20<Ammler>CBR?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause2>Custom Bridge Heads
07:20<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: try BKTunnels, would look better, I think...
07:21<Eddi|zuHause2>to place signals or crossings on bridge heads
07:21<Eddi|zuHause2>not just a straigt rail
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07:22<Eddi|zuHause2>the previous attempt was stopped, because the signal part was not possible with the current system
07:23<Eddi|zuHause2>well, PBS would be nice, but it works without
07:23<Eddi|zuHause2>i'd only have half the problems with PBS
07:24<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Ttdpatch#Saves_.2F_Screens
07:26<Eddi|zuHause2>Ammler: i don't really like those
07:26<Ammler>tunnels?
07:26<Ammler>thats not BK
07:26<Ammler>those aren't allowed to use in OTTD
07:26<Eddi|zuHause2>i know
07:26<Eddi|zuHause2>but also they lack a drawing of the rail basement
07:28<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, something is wrong with the freight overview of trains...
07:28<Eddi|zuHause2>"-0 Tonnen Getreide (252 Getreide) (x4)"
07:29<Ammler>I asked Osakar to use them in OTTD too, he told, BK Tunnels looks much better, I should use them
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07:57<dihedral|work>anybody here that does grf stuff?
07:57<dihedral|work>*who
07:58|-|Greyscale [~Greyscale@90.240.89.167] has joined #openttd
07:59<dihedral|work>or some sprite stuff?
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08:02<dihedral|work>we are looking for a grf for #wwottdgd
08:02<dihedral|work>it will also be included in the #openttdcoop grf pack
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08:23<dihedral|work>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=34514
08:28<dihedral|work>TrueBrain: can you pin some threads for me?
08:28<dihedral|work>s/me/us/
08:28<dihedral|work>us as in #wwottdgd
08:43<Purno>anyone here who knows some stuff about cpanel coincidentally?
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09:24<dihedral|work>@seen Wolf01
09:24<@DorpsGek>dihedral|work: Wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 44 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Wolf01> 'night
09:24<dihedral|work>anybody up to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=34514
09:26<Sacro>dihedral|work: i'll spam it in #tycoon
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09:27<dihedral|work>promisse?
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09:58[~]dihedral|work is looking for TrueBrain
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10:37<PIP>hello
10:37|-|SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd
10:37<PIP>just a quick question 8love the game though)
10:37|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76964.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:37<PIP>is it possible to destroy a city owned crossroad?
10:37|-|Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76964.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:37<PIP>it's basicly a roundabout
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10:38<dihedral|work>yes
10:38<dihedral|work>you need the coorect rating in that town
10:38<dihedral|work>there is also a patch setting
10:38<PIP>doesn't help even if i have outstanding
10:38<dihedral|work>remove more town owned blah
10:38<dihedral|work>what does it say
10:39|-|Arpad58 [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:39<dihedral|work>you get a message if something does not work what you are trying to do
10:40<Greyscale>going home now. BYe
10:40<PIP>um
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10:40<PIP>Can't clear this Area. local Authoroty refuses to allow this.
10:41<PIP>http://shrani.si/f/2B/5X/Vy9JdDa/ttd.jpg
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10:42<dihedral|work>patch setting
10:43<dihedral|work>remove more towned owned something
10:43<PIP>yeah
10:43<PIP>tried it
10:43<PIP>works
10:43<PIP>thanks a lot :)
10:43<PIP>cya
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10:43<SmatZ>hello
10:47<dihedral|work>hi
10:52[~]dihedral|work needs a gfx'er
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10:59<dihedral|work>uh
11:03|-|dihedral|work changed nick to dihedral|away
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11:20<Ammler>Problems with webpage / SVN Server ?
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11:44<Wolf01>hello
11:45<SmatZ>hi
11:45|-|dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-228-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
11:48<dihedral>desyncs while someone is 'generating' faces for his company profile??
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11:49<SmatZ>hmm great, bugs.openntd.org is out of order for commiting bugs
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11:53<SmatZ>dihedral yeah
11:53<SmatZ>it should use interactive_random
11:53<Ammller>Rubidium: same assert now on an other server, if you like to take a look :)
11:54<SmatZ>Ammller: yes
11:54<SmatZ>I have problems too :-(
11:54[~]dihedral is still looking for someone to do some grf work for #wwottdgd
11:54<Ammller>omg
11:55<Ammller>your are all so poor guys.
11:55<Ammller>brb
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11:58<Ammler>something is broken with opentt.org dns, isn't?
11:59<dihedral>it's there for me
11:59<dihedral>where on earth is TB?
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12:00<dihedral>:-)
12:00<dihedral>at least that is a start
12:00<Ammler>hmm, now, seems ok
12:02[~]dihedral is waiting for TrueBrain to follow _42_
12:02<SmatZ>yesyesyes works now
12:02<SmatZ>at last
12:02<SmatZ>amd64 bin # ./openttd
12:02<SmatZ>is not working for me :-/
12:02<SmatZ>somwthing wrong at my side...
12:03<SmatZ>maybe the hdd is on its last trip today
12:03<dihedral>put it in the freezer
12:03<Ammler>Rubidium: bt of coop.dev: http://paste.openttd.org/255
12:03<dihedral>preserve it
12:04<SmatZ>dihedral hopefully I do not have any important data there... maybe I will just do dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/backup bs=512 ...
12:04<SmatZ>it is a small partition with system
12:05<dihedral>heh
12:05<dihedral>i have had trouble with dd in the past
12:05<dihedral>esp when dd'ing back from the image
12:05<dihedral>to a hdd that did not have the same geomety
12:05<SmatZ>yes
12:06<SmatZ>dd skips bad sectors
12:06<dihedral>what else should it do...
12:06<SmatZ>so... the backup is useless
12:06<SmatZ>I expected it to write some data instead of skipping the block
12:07<SmatZ>because that way, the sector numbers won't match those before backup
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12:09<ln->he was running openttd as root and no one said anything?
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12:10<Ammler>dihedral: what does ResetGRFConfig(false) do in your patch?
12:14<dihedral>let me look at that for a sec
12:14<dihedral>ln-: who was?
12:16<ln->SmatZ
12:16<dihedral>ouch
12:16<dihedral>that is a very clever thing to do...
12:16<Maedhros>Ammler: that backtrace is next to useless...
12:16<Ammler>ok,
12:17<Ammler>its just meant be a 1. look
12:17<Ammler>Rubidum did take a longer look yesterday on that
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12:18<Maedhros>ok
12:18<Ammler>Maedhros: not sure, do you know something about that?
12:18<Ammler>do you like to habe a look on it?
12:19<dihedral>Ammler: makes sure the grf config is loaded
12:19<Ammler>!s/habe/have/
12:19<Ammler>dihedral, would that open possibility to load new GRF during a game?
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12:20<Ammler>so you don't have to do it local?
12:20<dihedral>hmmm
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12:26[~]dihedral greets Belugas
12:26|-|mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
12:26[~]Belugas waves
12:27<Wolf01>hello Belugas :D
12:27<dihedral>Wolf01:
12:27<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=34514 <--- intereste??
12:27<@Belugas>hello Wolf01 :)
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12:29<Rubidium>Ammler: you're not talking about the server I had a ssh connection to yesterday, right?
12:29<Ammler>no, its one from coop
12:30<Rubidium>so not a server I've "played" with
12:30|-|Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-131-34-109.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
12:30<Ammler>but I could add you key there too, if if would help...
12:30<Ammler>nope :)
12:30<Ammler>that server still runs
12:31<Wolf01>dihedral: eh... i'll never draw it in time :P i'm taking soo long to draw a stupid road, and it's easy to do, think about celebration things like banners or something else
12:32<Rubidium>Ammler: nah, I think I know what caused the assert
12:32<Wolf01>you might want something like this :P http://www.segnalidivita.com/fotodelgiorno/natale.jpg
12:32<dihedral>no... that is too mucyh
12:33<dihedral>just need a little color
12:33<Wolf01>i was thinking about drawing a band on the road which replaces the roadworks
12:34<Ammler>Rubidium: you mean you have fixed "my" server, that why it doesn't assert anymore?
12:34<Rubidium>it at least looks like it
12:35<Ammler>is that already in trunk?
12:35<Rubidium>no
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12:35<Ammler>or should I make a patch and make it in dev server too?
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12:40<Ammler>hmm, you "just" changed the assert...
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12:42<ln->SmatZ: why are you running openttd as root?
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12:43<Ammler>wow, thats brave
12:43<Ammler>(or stupid?)
12:43<SmatZ>ln-: why do you think so?
12:43|-|mode/#openttd [+v _42_] by Belugas
12:43<ln->20:02 < SmatZ> amd64 bin # ./openttd
12:44<SmatZ>well, you may customize your shell, too...
12:44<ln->... but that's not the case here, is it.
12:45|-|Wolf01 changed nick to Wolf01|AWAY
12:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11290 /trunk/src/network/core/packet.cpp: -Fix: obiwan in the assertion that checked for overflows when writing a packet, causing still correctly sized packets to cause assertions.
12:45<SmatZ>well, I couldn't run it, and I couldn't run it even as a root
12:46<SmatZ>!openttd commit 11289
12:46<SmatZ>!help
12:46<+_42_>Commit by truelight :: r11289 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs) (2007-10-17 23:45:22 UTC)
12:46<+_42_>[NoAI] -Add [FS#1346]: added AIVehicle::Is(Stopped)InDepot() (dihedral)
12:46|-|TinoM [~Tino@i5387CB83.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:47<dihedral>Wolf01|AWAY: if you feel like doing the work for us, we would much appreciate it
12:48<SmatZ>hmm seems I polluted FS with 1347-1349 while it was offline... if anyone can delete 1347,1348, do so
12:49[~]Belugas likes removing FS entries
12:50<+glx>done
12:50<SmatZ>thanks
12:50<@Belugas>lol
12:51<@Belugas>I lost the race :D
12:51<@Belugas>glx was faster
12:51<SmatZ>I thought about actual removing, not just closing, but ok :)
12:51<Ammler>does delete equal fixing?
12:52|-|Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
12:53<@Belugas>Ammler, not always, it depends on each case
12:53<Ammler>:)
12:54|-|Sriikki [~tomi.noro@dsl-lprgw5-fe5adc00-230.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
12:55<Phazorx>brr... my tcp driver just went awol...
12:55<Phazorx>Ammler: invite me to where ever i am supposed to be plz
12:56<Ammler>hmm?
12:56<Phazorx>channel i mean
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12:57<Ammler>#wwottdgd?
12:57<Phazorx>since i was missing i dont know if it has been asked here yet - is it possible to stop random tree planting with grf, or has to be a code change?
12:57<Phazorx>Ammler: the other one
12:58<Ammler>#wwottdgd.admin
12:59<@Belugas>Phazorx, i REALLY doubt you can stop random tree planting with grf right now
12:59<@Belugas>unless you write it ;)
13:00<Phazorx>Belugas: so a patch would be nice
13:00<Phazorx>err... not nice - the only option
13:02<SmatZ>it would be nice if you were so fast with commiting patches from FS, as you were with closing FS#1347,1348 :-x
13:02|-|Progman [~progman@p57A1F985.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:06|-|Wolf01|AWAY changed nick to Wolf01
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>stopping tree growth is probably a matter of adding an if() to a function call
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>and adding a patch setting is not more than a few lines either
13:10|-|Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-109-253.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd
13:11<huma>damn, this city is growing too fast :)
13:11<huma>11243
13:12<SmatZ>what city?
13:12<huma>kollumenvorden :)
13:13<huma>maybe funding new buildings and roads was a mistake :)
13:13<SmatZ>maybe you are in a wrong channel
13:14<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: yes, should nto be any hard if you know what you are doign :)
13:15<dihedral>back
13:16<dihedral>Wolf01: so... was that a yes or a not?
13:16<Wolf01>i think is a no
13:16|-|Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:16<dihedral>you dont have to answer right away :-P
13:17[~]dihedral goes to hunt for another gfx'er
13:17<dihedral>HELP....
13:17<dihedral>:'(
13:17<@Belugas>[14:09] <Eddi|zuHause> stopping tree growth is probably a matter of adding an if() to a function call <---nice :) another volunteer :D
13:18<Wolf01>at least... if you want i might draw the sprites, but you must code them by yourself, because i really don't know how to make grfs :P
13:19<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: feel like making a patch like that?
13:20<dihedral>Wolf01: that already would be great
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>no, i don't have that kind of time to spend right now
13:21<dihedral>as Ammler said that if i made the sprites he could code the grf, and i really dont know how to do the sprites :-)
13:21<dihedral>leaving aside the fact that i suck at design / images
13:21<Wolf01>supply me the source images and i'll try what i can do, i'll tell you in a day or two if i can do it
13:23<dihedral>i dont have a 'source image'...
13:24<dihedral>but if you can get hold of the town lanterns (which must be somewhere) :-)
13:24<@Belugas>Phazorx, if you wan to do it by grf, yu might face a big problem : there is no spec (that i know of) who can control stuff like trees behaviour
13:24<@Belugas>you'll end up creating ne yourself :)
13:24<Phazorx>Belugas: patch is much better
13:24<Wolf01>http://i.pbase.com/t6/62/511062/4/78964810.SbRCky16.jpg ?
13:24<Phazorx>this is for #wwottdgd we are gonna have own buuild anwyay
13:24<@Belugas>i hate adding patches :(
13:24<@Belugas>grf is so cool for that...
13:25<dihedral>yes - Wolf01 - that is a lantern
13:28<Ammler>no tree patch: http://paste.openttd.org/256
13:28<Ammler>:)
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i fear that will stop grass grow, too
13:30|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6E49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:30<skidd13>hi
13:30<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: fine with that
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather try http://paste.openttd.org/257
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>Phazorx: i wouldn't like to play on a map that is all dirty
13:32|-|Jezral [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd
13:32<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: no one stops you from pretting it up
13:33<huma>can i change one route order for all vehicles in depot?
13:34|-|Dephenom [~paul@80.175.234.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:34<huma>like one station suddenly stopped accepting food and now i need to redirect them to another one
13:35|-|Dephenom [~paul@80.175.234.185] has joined #openttd
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm, my version does not affect tree planting
13:36<huma>and this is happening in the downtown of 13 million city
13:36<huma>apparently they've had enough
13:36|-|TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>huma: office buildings don't accept food
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>only living houses
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>i suggest dropping off food at the main station (transfer), and distributing them by trucks to the suburbs
13:39|-|Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
13:39|-|mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
13:40<ln->a ...!
13:40<Ammler>eddi, runned may patch now for 100 years, no trees, but grass growing
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: yeah, i think yours will work
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>only don't play a tropic game :p
13:43<Ammler>Rubidium: I'll update the dev server on coop now, should work with current nightly
13:47<@Bjarni>I see that Markkisen is back
13:47<Markkisen>No
13:47<Markkisen>:o
13:47<Markkisen>It's an illusion
13:47<@Bjarni>Markkisen: do you know the story about a guy who joined this channel while he was high?
13:47|-|MarkSlap changed nick to MarkMc
13:47<Markkisen>Nope
13:47|-|Markkisen changed nick to MarkSlap
13:49<@Bjarni>well... from his point of view he decided to try some drugs of some kind for the first time ever and the next thing he remembers is waking up the next day. Then he is contacted (by email or IRC... I don't know) asking if it's true that he said that (name of person contacting him) is a drug addict and party animal
13:49<@Bjarni>in this channel
13:49<@Bjarni>he couldn't remember ever being in this channel so he joined
13:50<@Bjarni>and everybody knew about his personal issues and problems with his sister and stuff
13:50<@Bjarni>and he went like "oh god, did I really tell about all of that to a bunch of strangers in a channel that I had never been in before?"
13:50|-|AntB [~AntB-UK@host81-151-111-8.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:50<@Bjarni>yes he did :P
13:50<huma>Eddi|zuHause: thanks
13:51<@Bjarni>funny thing is that we have his real name and location so we can get to him if we like :P
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>huma: problem with transfer, you need to time your trucks so food does not pile up at the station, it will kill your profit
13:51<@Bjarni>that is what drugs do to you
13:52<huma>yes, i try to balance it
13:52<MarkMc>What kind of drugs?
13:52<@Bjarni>like I would remember that
13:52<MarkMc>:P
13:52<@Bjarni>if I really cared I could look it up
13:52<dihedral>and why are you so interested
13:52<MarkMc>Like cannabis would fuck you up that much
13:52<@Bjarni>but it's drugs... that's all that you need to know
13:52<MarkMc>Nice
13:53<MarkMc>Yes, it would be nice if you looked that up
13:53<MarkMc>:)
13:54<@Bjarni>dihedral: I banned Markkisen last night for proclaiming that he had drugs and something else
13:54<@Bjarni>basically the drugs thing was enough
13:54<MarkMc>:>
13:54<huma>i think i'm addicted to green tea :)
13:54<@Bjarni>btw did you write your (fake) real name while you were high?
13:54<MarkMc>What?
13:55<@Bjarni>come on
13:55<@Bjarni>like you are really named "Hestporr M. Lingonsylt"
13:55<MarkMc>Ah
13:55<MarkMc>:D
13:55<MarkMc>That's a internal joke between me and a friend of mine
13:56<@Bjarni>not to mention that your other client's real name is "Mjew Fucker"
13:56<MarkMc>:>
13:56<MarkMc>I don't like to have my real name in stuff on my computer, thats all
13:56<@Bjarni>you have to be high to get ideas like that
13:56<MarkMc>No
13:56[~]dihedral needs a grf...
13:56<skidd13>dihedral: hmmpf
13:56<MarkMc>All that I came up with when I didn't even had tried drugs
13:57<dihedral>:-)
13:57<dihedral>hmmpf what?
13:57[~]AntB is trying to work on the celebratory GRF gfx
13:57<@Bjarni>so you went "oh nobody can tell the difference if I do drugs so I might as well do them"?
13:57<MarkMc>No
13:58<MarkMc>Have I said that?
13:58<@Bjarni>no
13:58<MarkMc>Exactly
13:58<MarkMc>:)
13:58<MarkMc>You see
13:58<@Bjarni>you are just giving away a personal profile
13:58<MarkMc>I only do cannabis
13:58<@Bjarni>so I assumed
13:58[~]dihedral pats AntB on the back :-)
13:58<MarkMc>That don't fuck you up so badly so you dont rembember anything
13:58[~]AntB is stuck at the first hurdle...
13:58<@Bjarni>but it's still really bad for you
13:59<MarkMc>Shoot
13:59<MarkMc>I have a deathwish, so who cares?
13:59<MarkMc>:)
13:59[~]Bjarni notes never to drive with MarkMc
13:59<MarkMc>I don't drink alcohol though, THAT's bad for you
13:59<MarkMc>Haha
14:00<@Bjarni>you know you don't have to select alcohol or drugs... it's not like you have to use one of them
14:00<MarkMc>No, of course not :)
14:00<skidd13>dihedral: Damned work. I have to do some extra work. One presentation and one advertising CD for the company I'm working (deadline tomorrow 12.00). I'd have done something ;)
14:00<AntB>lol, at least you know what you getting with alcohol
14:00<MarkMc>No
14:01<MarkMc>Bjarni, you banned me for having acid at home
14:01<MarkMc>And theres a song namned "Hardstyle and Acid"
14:01<@Belugas>[15:02] <@Bjarni> you know you don't have to select alcohol or drugs... it's not like you have to use one of them <-- both! Both!!!!
14:01<@Bjarni>MarkMc: did you know that smoking cannabis will make your sperm more or less barren for a week?
14:01<MarkMc>:D
14:01<@Bjarni>oh right
14:01<@Bjarni>it was hardstyle stuff
14:01<@Belugas>i don't mind, i have my kid!
14:01<AntB>Is there any limits to drawing lanturn sprites?
14:02<MarkMc>Bjarni, barren = you can get laid without have a child?
14:02<@Belugas>who cares what my sperm looks like :S
14:02<skidd13>Can we please stop this discussion! It's a IRC about OpenTTD and not a drug helpline.
14:02<MarkMc>:D
14:02|-|Fluidicspace [~Fluidicsp@dsl-217-155-200-157.zen.co.uk] has quit []
14:02<dihedral>lo
14:02<dihedral>l
14:02<@Belugas>sniff sniff sniff
14:02<dihedral>i wonder why he left
14:03[~]Belugas was just sad, not sniffing ;)
14:03<AntB>lol
14:03<@Bjarni>Belugas: good... you know... I ban people who do drugs or talk about benefits of drugs ;)
14:03<MarkMc>But what is barren?
14:03<MarkMc>:o
14:04|-|huma [~huma@89.19.167.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04<MarkMc>Oh
14:04<MarkMc>Nice
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: did i tell you that the mushrooms were great?
14:05<MarkMc>Haha
14:05<MarkMc>:D
14:05<@Bjarni>somehow I think you are pulling my leg :P
14:05<@Belugas>i did drugs, in my pre-marital life. Does it count?
14:05<@Bjarni>sort of
14:05[~]hylje pulls Bjarni's leg
14:06<MarkMc>Psilocybe semilanceata?
14:06<MarkMc>:)
14:06[~]Bjarni sort of sets mode +b *!Belugas@*
14:06<MarkMc>:D
14:07|-|G [~njones@202.154.150.116] has joined #openttd
14:07<MarkMc>Cool nick
14:07<MarkMc>But it kinda reminds me of "Ali G" and thats gay
14:07<MarkMc>:D
14:07<@Bjarni>it's short and to the point
14:07<MarkMc>Exactly
14:08<@Bjarni>except if it were really to the point, it would be P
14:08<@Belugas>too bad it's not J
14:08<@Belugas>J point
14:08<@Belugas>lolo
14:08<MarkMc>Bjarni, do you want to know the best thing with me?
14:08<MarkMc>:D
14:08<@Bjarni>that sounds really scarey
14:08<@Bjarni>-e
14:08<MarkMc>I'm 15
14:08<MarkMc>:D
14:08<MarkMc>(years old)
14:09<@Bjarni>I presume it's not months or decades
14:09<MarkMc>Nope
14:09<AntB>lol
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>MarkMc: more like Macrolepiota procera :p
14:10<MarkMc>So quiet...
14:10<@Bjarni>so basically you went "oh I have a potential great future where I can meet a great woman, have great sex, a big house and a nice family.... but I will just throw all that away and do drugs instead"
14:11<@Bjarni>before growing up
14:11<MarkMc>Exaclty
14:11<MarkMc>Hmm
14:11<MarkMc>Exactly*
14:11<MarkMc>Eddi|zuHause ^^
14:11<@Bjarni>you shouldn't do drugs
14:11<MarkMc>Gosh, you sound like an american anti-drugwoman
14:11<MarkMc>:P
14:11<@Bjarni>you mistyped exactly and then you corrected it into the same mistake again
14:12<hylje>soccer mom
14:12<@Bjarni>hey
14:12<MarkMc>Fuck
14:12<MarkMc>:D
14:12<@Bjarni>I'm not American
14:12<@Bjarni>or a woman
14:12<MarkMc>I know
14:12<MarkMc>Even worse
14:12<MarkMc>Danish
14:12<MarkMc>:o
14:12<hylje>implied that you *sound* like one
14:12<MarkMc>:)
14:12<hylje>not that you *are* one
14:12<hylje>stop taking drugs
14:12<MarkMc>hylje, thanks
14:12<hylje>you hypocrite
14:12<MarkMc>Haha
14:12<MarkMc>Danish people dont like when you point guns at them I found out
14:13<hylje>well who does?
14:13<Maedhros>does anyone?
14:13<MarkMc>Me+
14:13<MarkMc>?*
14:13<hylje>aww
14:13<MarkMc>Iäm swedish
14:13<MarkMc>
14:13<MarkMc>+'
14:13<@Bjarni>I once heard a guy saying that you couldn't talk about drugs if you never tried them and my first thought was "based on that theory it's kind of hard to talk about successful suicides"
14:13<AntB>lol
14:13<MarkMc>:)
14:13<dihedral>rofl
14:14<@Belugas>in a matter of fact, it is true
14:14<@Belugas>apart from saying "he's dead", what else there is to talk about?
14:14<hylje>at least somewhere in the earth you can get shot for failed suicide
14:15[~]MarkMc are doin business on my laptop that stands at the right of me, and chatting on this computer
14:15<@Belugas>apart from saynig he's stoned, what else can one who didn't used drugs can talk about?
14:15<MarkMc>Guess what kind of business
14:15<MarkMc>:)
14:15|-|stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:15<@Bjarni>drug dealing?
14:15<Rubidium>oh god, you're a Nigerian scammer
14:15<MarkMc>:D
14:15|-|sPooT [~spoot@e142085.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
14:16<Maedhros>hylje: suicide is illegal in the uk, i think
14:16|-|stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd
14:16<MarkMc>:)
14:16<Rubidium>Maedhros: as if they're going to prosecute you when you kill yourself
14:16<@Bjarni>I don't think we need special laws regarding suicide... it's murder and that's it
14:17<@Bjarni>attempted suicide is attempted murder
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>suicide is illegal pretty much everywhere
14:17<Prof_Frink>Bjarni is schizophrenic!
14:17<MarkMc>:)
14:17<@Bjarni>what?
14:17<MarkMc>Prof_Frink, no, hes danish
14:17<MarkMc>:D
14:17<MarkMc>he's
14:17<@Bjarni>what?
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>even the Koran forbids suicide
14:17<MarkMc>cool
14:17<@Bjarni>Prof_Frink: based on what???
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>we are not schitzophrenic
14:18<Prof_Frink>Bjarni: You're murdering the voices
14:20<skidd13>This IRC is too wired for me ATM. I'm off
14:20|-|skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6E49.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd []
14:20<MarkMc>:D
14:20<Prof_Frink>skidd13: Get an 802.11 connection.
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>"Identity" was a great movie
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14:21<MarkMc>Prof_Frink :D
14:21<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Was that the one with the motel?
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14:22<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
14:24[~]Bjarni just realised something
14:24<MarkSlap>What? :o
14:24<@Bjarni>about MarkMc's deathwish
14:25<MarkSlap>:o
14:25<@Bjarni>if we don't go against it, he will die
14:25<@Bjarni>then he will not buy any more drugs
14:25<MarkSlap>Nono
14:25<Prof_Frink>You've got some fucking jaffa cakes in your coat pocket?
14:25<@Bjarni>and then he will no longer fund terrorism
14:25<MarkSlap>:P
14:25<MarkSlap>I cant see how a cb-grow in sweden founds terrorism?
14:25<@Bjarni>now you added a new info
14:25<MarkSlap>Yes
14:25<MarkSlap>:)
14:26<@Bjarni>it's not imported
14:26<@Bjarni>you never told that
14:26<MarkSlap>No
14:26<MarkSlap>You just assumed that
14:27<@Bjarni>then you are reduced to a burden on society
14:27<@Bjarni>not a terrorist funder
14:27<MarkSlap>Yay
14:27<@Bjarni>do you pay VAT on your weed?
14:27|-|izhirahi1er changed nick to izhirahider
14:28<MarkSlap>No, I do it through a business
14:28<MarkSlap>WHat do you think?
14:28<@Bjarni>so you cheat on taxes as well
14:28<MarkSlap>You I got to the "VAT-company" and say: "Hi! I bought some hasch, now I want to pay VAT. How much VAT should I pay?"
14:28<MarkSlap>:D
14:29<@Bjarni>you don't have to ask
14:29<@Bjarni>you can calculate it yourself
14:29<@Bjarni>oh wait
14:29<@Bjarni>you can't
14:29<@Bjarni>if you used the weed
14:29<@Bjarni>but everybody else can :P
14:30<MarkSlap>:>
14:30<MarkSlap>We have like, 12% VAT on grocerys
14:30<@Bjarni>basically you take the price you paid and multiply it with 0,25. The result is how much you should pay
14:30<@Bjarni>it's not like weed is a food
14:30<MarkSlap>Wonder if cannabis goes in under "grocerys"
14:30<MarkSlap>:(
14:30<@Bjarni>I guess it's a luxury goods
14:31<MarkSlap>Mmkey
14:31<MarkSlap>Then its like, eh,, 10%
14:31<MarkSlap>Yay
14:31<@Bjarni>err... are you sure?
14:31<MarkSlap>No
14:31<MarkSlap>Not at all
14:31<MarkSlap>:D
14:31<@Bjarni>it's 25% in Denmark
14:31<MarkSlap>It's probably still 12%
14:31<MarkSlap>:P
14:32<MarkSlap>We have between 27-34% tax on our income
14:32<@Bjarni>not more?
14:32<MarkSlap>No, not basicly
14:33<@Bjarni>here you can pay up to 68% of parts of your income
14:33<MarkSlap>Oh, fuck
14:33<MarkSlap>:D
14:33<MarkSlap>I like ireland still
14:33<MarkSlap>10-12% tax on the income
14:33<MarkSlap>:D
14:33<@Bjarni>surprisingly some parties wants to increase the taxes o_O
14:34<MarkSlap>:P
14:34<@Bjarni>we have the highest income taxes in the world, but lets increase it because only rich bigots pay taxes and if you are a good communist you don't make money
14:35<@Bjarni>or something
14:35<@Bjarni>shit
14:36<@Bjarni>I'm telling about political parties to a drug addict
14:36<@Bjarni>aka I'm wasting my time >_<
14:36<@Bjarni>you will not vote on any of them anyway
14:36<Prof_Frink>Better than talking about your drug habits to politicians
14:37<@Bjarni>well... if I did that to the politicians who wants to increase the taxes, then they would stare at me and don't trust me because they think that everybody do drugs
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14:47<MarkSlap>:>
14:51<dihedral>http://www.break.com/pictures/um-ok384245.html
14:52<dihedral>the one after that is pretty good too
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14:56<@Bjarni>the last one... I think they are even more expensive than normal weapons... you see they are damn expensive to drop
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15:09<Wolf01>i just looked at mirc and i thought: "i don't remember to have joined Command&Conquer channel" lol
15:10<hylje>lol
15:14<@Bjarni>you joined a C&C channel?
15:14<@Bjarni>there is a C&C channel?
15:14<hylje> * <- the joke
15:14<hylje> o
15:14<hylje>-|-
15:14<hylje>\
15:14<hylje>ah, i fail
15:14<hylje>you get the point
15:14<@Bjarni>.
15:14<@Bjarni>you can have the point back
15:14<hylje>aww, sweet
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15:17<Eddi|zuHause>· <- this one's much better
15:18<hylje>:o
15:18<hylje>it floaaats
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>˙
15:19<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause appears to use modern hardware where floating point has a decent speed. When using old hardware you should avoid floating point at all costs
15:20<@Bjarni>I still tend to think about how to avoid floating point and stay in the int domain even though I don't have to anymore
15:21<Wolf01>dihedral: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=580169#p580169 i was looking at some screenshot topics, i found that this roadset does have the lanterns you need
15:22<hylje>this is very silly
15:23<dihedral>Wolf01: i am really sorry to have to dissapoint you
15:23<dihedral>i am not looking for the lantern itself...
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: next time, link to the picture in question, not the whole thread with 50 giant screenshots
15:24<Wolf01>lol, i forgot that this forum don't have the feature to link one post instead of the whole topic
15:25<dihedral>and we possibly would have to get in touch with the author to modify those lanterns...
15:25<Wolf01>not if i redraw them very different
15:26<Wolf01>i only take the idea from them
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>and who in his right mind uses a BR 01 to haul Coal?
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>especially since two posts above he talks about realism
15:29[~]Prof_Frink uses a BR103 to haul Eddi|zuHause
15:30<dihedral>Wolf01: sure, the idea is good - needs some color :-)
15:30<dihedral>party
15:30<dihedral>celebration
15:30<dihedral>:-)
15:30<dihedral>go for it :-)
15:30<Wolf01>do you like green?
15:30<dihedral>i like a lot of colors :-)
15:31<@Bjarni>go look at a rainbow
15:31<@Bjarni>play rainbow islands... it's colourful :P
15:31<dihedral>aint got on here Bjarni
15:32<@Bjarni>rainbow islands... is it 5 or 6 bit colours? ;)
15:32<@Bjarni>looked colourful back then, but not anymore
15:32<@Bjarni>I think it's 5
15:33<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11291 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix [FS#1345]: changing the wagon_speed_limits patch option caused desyncs.
15:33<@Bjarni>heh nice one
15:33|-|LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:34<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11292 /trunk/src/player_face.h: -Fix [FS#1350]: don't desync when generating random faces. Patch by SmatZ.
15:35<Rubidium>SmatZ: FS#1349 doesn't look like a bug to me
15:36<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11293 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_text.cpp strgen/strgen.cpp): -Fix: newgrf defined industry news messages use TTD format for args, which is not the same as our. So we must detect those strings and pass them the right params
15:38<SmatZ>Rubidium: yes, but once you said I should mark everything as bug
15:38<SmatZ>else it won't ever get commited
15:38<SmatZ>as you look at bugs only...
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15:38<@Bjarni>!bug 1349
15:39<Rubidium>no, I said that patches that fix bugs should be files as bugs, not patches
15:39<@Bjarni>!Openttd bug 1349
15:39<@Bjarni>so much for being lazy :P
15:39<Rubidium>*filed
15:39<+glx>Bjarni: @openttd bugs 1349, but DorpsGek is not here
15:39<SmatZ>the http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1209 has been waiting for some time...
15:39<@Bjarni>ahh
15:39<Rubidium>and I didn't say I never look at patches, it's just that I don't look as often at them
15:40<Rubidium>SmatZ: there are a lot of patches that have been waiting for "some" (even more than your "some") time
15:41<SmatZ>ah okay
15:42<SmatZ>you know, there is a problem - the time I spend with updating the patch to be applicable for never revisions, could be spent in a much more useful way
15:43<SmatZ>and I am often very nervous when something is unfinished...
15:43<SmatZ>it stresses me a lot
15:44<Phazorx>Rubidium: thanks for 11291
15:44<Phazorx>thatw as fast :)
15:44<Rubidium>Phazorx: I already knew the solution yesterday, just didn't have the time to implement it
15:44[~]Wolf01 http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/lanternsandpeople.png
15:44<Wolf01>dihedral, what do you think about this? i draw some people that can be copied and pasted to make a crowd
15:45<Phazorx>Rubidium: it did look like soemtihng rather basic
15:45<Phazorx>do trains ened to depot to have afefct of the patch option change now?
15:45<Wolf01>so cities might look like new york :P
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15:45<Rubidium>Phazorx: it had nothing specifically to do with vehicles going to a depot
15:46<dihedral>Wolf01: sure - sounds like a good idea
15:46<Phazorx>Rubidium: i know that, but before the fix in order to get trains to readjust to wagon speed limits off they need to go to depot and be updated
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15:47<dihedral>In Fact Wolf01
15:48<dihedral>i am not familiar with grf's, but are there 2 separate ones for lanterns and for the side walks of town roads?
15:49[~]Phazorx pings Eddi|zuHause
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>?
15:49<Phazorx>whatw as your idea bout no trees patch before?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>rubbish :p
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>take ammlers patch
15:50<Phazorx>Ammler ?
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>http://paste.openttd.org/256
15:51<Phazorx>heh
15:51<Phazorx>not quite what i meant tho
15:51<Phazorx>that stops trees functinality
15:51<Phazorx>only think i wanted to prevent - trees growing everywhere on random
15:52<dihedral>so that you would still be able to 'up' your standing with the local auth?
15:52<Phazorx>well you will be able to manualy plant trees
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>OnTick_Trees() is the function that places random trees on the map
15:52<Phazorx>but they will not grow
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>TileLoopTree() is the function that grows them
15:52<Ammler>Phazorx: they will
15:52<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: is there a separated functiona that grows them?
15:53<Phazorx>Ammler: what rev it can go agaisnt and is it wgetable as .patch form soemwhere? :)
15:53<Ammler>I guess, it works since revision 1
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>Phazorx: click on "download" above the pist
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>post
15:54<Phazorx>ahh see it
15:54<Phazorx>thansk
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15:54<Wolf01>oh hello TrueBrain :D
15:55<TrueBrain>hi :)
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15:55<Eddi|zuHause>who was that again who said he was "always on"?
15:56<TrueBrain>shit happens
15:56<TrueBrain>connection problems too
15:59<Phazorx>heh
15:59<Phazorx>reminds me of an issue i had 2 hours ago
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16:10<Wolf01>http://xkcd.com/330/ ahahahahahahh
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16:11<TrueBrain>Phazorx: sadly enough, if this client is dropped, the problems are slightly bigger than yours :p
16:11<TrueBrain>(as that means around 10000 customers can't see their website :p)
16:11<TrueBrain>but okay, minor detail :)
16:11<dihedral>TrueBrain: :-)
16:12<Phazorx>TrueBrain: that's all matter of preception :)
16:12<TrueBrain>I am gone :) Have fun all!
16:12<Phazorx>my OSes suddenly loosing tcpip.sys was big problem AFAIC
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16:15<valhallasw>I still need some comic groeper
16:15<valhallasw>grouper*
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16:16<valhallasw>something that groups xkcd, little gamers, megatokyo, etc :)
16:17<Wolf01>we should make a webcomic on ottd
16:17<Prof_Frink>valhallasw: It's called an RSS aggregator
16:17<Wolf01>maybe with sacro as protagonist
16:17<valhallasw>Prof_Frink: yes. but most web comics don't embed the comics in RSS
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16:35<Sacro>Wolf01: eh?
16:36<Wolf01>nothing
16:42<Phazorx>err what do i do with .cpp.rej after unsuccessful patching?
16:42<Phazorx>from what i can see it should have worked
16:42<Phazorx>and output does not make sense to me
16:43<+glx>.rej contains rejected part of diff
16:44<Phazorx>glx: i figured that but from looks of it it should work
16:45<+glx>maybe a trailing space somewhere
16:45<+glx>enough to make it fail
16:45<Phazorx>http://paste.openttd.org/259
16:48<+glx>this paste miss the important thing :)
16:48<+glx>content of patched file
16:49<Phazorx>ints rej shows original and patch both?
16:50<+glx>.rej contains exactly the same as .patch
16:50<+glx>but only the failed hunk
16:51<+glx>and in a different format
16:51<Wolf01>'night
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16:51<Phazorx>http://paste.openttd.org/260
16:52<+glx>patching should have work indeed
16:53<Phazorx>my point :/
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>just edit the file and search for ">>>"
16:53<Phazorx>edit what file?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>the .cpp file
16:54<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: doesn't work with patch
16:54<Phazorx>/home/trunk# grep ">>>" src/landscape.cpp
16:54<Phazorx>/home/trunk#
16:54<+glx>>>>> is for when you have .mine and .rXXXX
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, then edit the file manually :p
16:55<+glx>yes it's a one line change
16:55<Phazorx>i did already
16:56<Phazorx>i want to get the point whi it fails and what does .rej supposed to show
16:57<dihedral>good night
16:57[~]dihedral is off to bed
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17:01<Eddi|zuHause>Phazorx: i'm guessing tab vs. spaces
17:02<Ammler>try this file: http://senduit.com/6184dc
17:02<Phazorx>Ammler: i did
17:03<Phazorx>actualy nope
17:03<Phazorx>i had a screen copy
17:03<Phazorx>which doesnt maitain spaces and crlfs
17:03<Phazorx>i direct link is nice for patches
17:03<Phazorx>otherwise "smart" services are getting in the way
17:04<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: this patch should work on server side only, right?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: it has to be on both clients and servers
17:05<Ammler>so does every single client generate randomly trees?
17:05<Ammler>if you have more clients you will also have more trees?
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>no
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>all clients generate the same tree
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise they desync
17:06<Ammler>does not the server generate the tree and tell clients where?
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>no
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>communication like that is only initiated for player instructed commands
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>all (pseudo)random stuff is calculated on each client
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>after each 100 ticks, the randomseed is compared
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>if different -> desync
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17:10<Ammler>and why is that needed?
17:10<Ammler>wouldn't be better to do that stuff on server only?
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>because you cannot send all that data through the net
17:10<Ammler>oh, ok
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>there are multiple thousand random decisions each tick
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>you'd practically have to send the entire map each tick, because almost all tiles can change
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: the premise of that system is to send as few data through the net as possible, so whenever you can deterministically recalculate something on all clients, you do that
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>that goes for pretty much everything, except player intervention
17:15<Ammler>ok, now, I see, thanks
17:16<Ammler>how many ticks has a day?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>grep "#define DAY_TICS"?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>something like 72
17:17<Ammler>74,
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
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17:19<Ammler>now, I also understand, why there are so many desyncs on some patches
17:19<Ammler>like pax dest
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18:11<Maarten>you know you have played openttd too much when you receive your paycheck, and the "ka-ching" sound rings in your head.
18:11<Eoin>lol
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18:50<Greyscale>snore time. Night
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 19 00:00:53 2007