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#openttd IRC Logs for 2007-10-21

---Logopened Sun Oct 21 00:00:01 2007
00:00<ThePizzaKing>That's me, the guy who's just scary
00:00<Gekz>CIA-5: version
00:01<Gekz>there needs to be a command to get the current svn revision
00:01<Gekz>or there is and I'm stupid.
00:11<Ailure>what are you talking about
00:11<Ailure>I mean, that's like what happens by default in a SVN client
00:11<Ailure>reminds me it's been awhile since I updated my local openTTD source resource
00:12<Ailure>I don't actually compile my own openTTD source, but I have it around when I feel like exprimentating
00:13<Gekz>oh noeses
00:13<Gekz>it's saving to dun dun dun, /tmp
00:52<@Rubidium>Gekz: svn info
00:52<Gekz>I found openttd.notice
00:53<Gekz>I don't need it now.
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03:09<Alberth>While watching newAI trucks, I noticed a strange behavior. The AI programs visits to the road depot in the schedule. When a truck is at that point in its schedule (ie it should be going to the road depot), but it gets interruppted by a servicing timeout, it visits the road depot without its schedule moving on to the next stop. As a result, after leaving the depot, it makes a circle and re-visits the depot. The second time the schedult m
03:10<Alberth>I just tried it myself, and my trucks also do this, so it seems that AI has nothing to do with it.
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03:20<Alberth>is this desired behavior?
03:22<hylje>although one shouldnt need to have automagical depoting when the order is to go there already
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04:23<Wolf01>lol, 2 years and one week since my suggestion:
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04:37<@Rubidium>good moaning TrueBrain ;)
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04:59<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11322 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: select an allowed station size when drag&drop is disabled. Patch by Wolf01.
05:01<Maedhros>what does that commit do? select the largest allowed station size when using drag and drop if some configurations are disallowed?
05:02<Wolf01>no, selects the allowed size widgets for newstations
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05:03<Wolf01>like when you have a station which is only 2*1 or 3*1, if you change from drag&drop to fixed size, sometimes the not allowed widgets are selected
05:04<Maedhros>aah, i see
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05:41<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truelight * r11323 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: GCC2.95 gave a lot of bogus 'might be uninitialized', so never show them for this compiler
05:42<Wolf01>tanker wagon refittable for tourists... lol :D
05:42<@Bjarni>economy class
05:42<Wolf01>i thought the economy class was the bolster wagon XD
05:43<@Bjarni>but it's not nice to be outside if the train drives more than 60 km/h
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05:45<Wolf01>oh, yes i forgot that in India people is used to travel on top of the wagons :P
05:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truelight * r11324 /3rdparty/squirrel/sqstdlib/ (sqstdio.cpp sqstdstream.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: include <stdio.h> before <new> to make MorphOS happy
05:46<@Bjarni>not only India
05:46<@Bjarni>basically the idea works everywhere except at UK tunnels or if there are catenary present
05:48<Wolf01>uhm.. ECS sawmills cut trees?
05:51<@TrueBrain>sigh.. if you post PES2008 on a newsgroup, don't do it on a 10kib/s line... takes for ever!! :(
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05:53<CIA-5>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11325 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix (r11312)[FS#1357]: [OSX] fixed compilation on OSX
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06:04<Wolf01>why a city might want to dig in a leveled terrain?
06:04<Wolf01>and near of a little lake
06:06<CIA-5>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11326 /trunk/src/ (music/qtmidi.cpp sound/cocoa_s.cpp): -Cleanup: [OSX] removed now unneeded includes and unreached conditional defines from some OSX specific files
06:10<Maedhros>hmm. my dbsetxl wagons seem to be using the wrong loading stages (coal instead of iron ore)
06:12<ln->Bjarni: have you tested on Leopard?
06:13<@Bjarni>and just how should I be able to do that?
06:13<@Bjarni>it's not released yet
06:13<Wolf01>on UKRS, is possible to bind "sand" to "iron ore" instead of "coal"? i can't see the difference of coal and sand trains when i bring materials to the glass industry :/
06:13<ln->there have been beta versions for months.
06:14<@Bjarni>but I presume that if everything else fails then I should be able to crosscompile for 10.4 on 10.5 and that should work
06:14<Maedhros>Wolf01: not without editing the grf, no
06:14<Wolf01>but ecs or ukrs?
06:14<ln->Bjarni: i could maybe try ottd on Leopard next week at work.
06:14<ln->if it arrives on time.
06:14<@Bjarni>that would be nice
06:15<Maedhros>Wolf01: ukrs
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06:15<@Bjarni>because I'm not going to spend money on Leopard before everybody else. I have a working system that I don't want to upgrade to something that might cause me problems
06:16<@Bjarni>so basically I will wait until the Leopard patches are out
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06:17<@Bjarni><ln-> there have been beta versions for months. <-- like I would get my hands on a pirated beta OS and install it...
06:17<@Bjarni>dream on
06:17<@Bjarni>I rely on this computer to be productive
06:17<ln->what kind of a mac did you have again?
06:18<@Bjarni>one that should be able to run Leopard... that's not the issue
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06:18<Wolf01>uhm... aren't trams compatible with long vehicles? i loaded them, no warnings, no trams :/
06:18<@Bjarni>I presume it to be able to run 10.6 when that time comes
06:18<ln->no, it was a general question, just because i don't remember anymore what you have.
06:19<Maedhros>which did you load first? long vehicles might be using up all the road vehicle ids
06:24<Wolf01>eh i think so, i loaded trams for first
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06:38<CIA-5>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11327 /trunk/ -Fix (r7262): [OSX] make bundle_dmg once again names the mounted dmg "OpenTTD rev" (instead of just "bundle")
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06:49<CIA-5>OpenTTD: bjarni * r11328 /trunk/ -Cleanup (r11327): removed unneeded line
06:49<Ammler>lol, we reached sign (names) limit at coop
06:49<@Rubidium>haha ;)
06:50<@TrueBrain>you guys talk too much
06:50<@Bjarni>that's.... alot of signs
06:50<Ammler>I'll check that, can't believe
06:51<@TrueBrain>I guess you just ran out of strings
06:51<@TrueBrain>as you can place 65000 signs :p
06:55<Ammler>"Can't change sign name... \n Too many names defined" <-- true
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06:57<AntB>We've had that before, just so you know
06:58<Ammler>AntB: who is wee, also coop?
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06:59<AntB>its happened at least once before in coop, and once in a 2p LAN game (we got really bored and signed practically everything)
07:01<Ammler>Rubidium: was there some performance optimizing in the last revisions, we have lower cpu usage with many trains...
07:02<Ammler>hmm, maybe a "good" caching?
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07:06<Ammler>hmm, take it back, strange, now its up to 70%
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07:14<Wezz6400>hmm, gives an 403 error
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07:17<@TrueBrain>Wezz6400: try again :)
07:17<Wezz6400>it works, thx :)
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07:29<AntB>anyone know what program to use to get a PCX file with a palette compatible with GRFCodec? i've tried IrfanView and GIMP, those being the only two i know
07:32<Maedhros>you can use the gimp
07:32<Maedhros>load a file that has the correct palette, save it, and use it for your new file
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07:34<Ammler>doesn't grfcodec not tranfor to "right" palette, if needed?
07:35<@TrueBrain>how would it know which color to use, if you used a color not in the palette?
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07:37<AntB>i used the palette off Purno's drawing tutorial, which seem to match the one on the patch wiki
07:38<Maedhros>where the colours are in the palette is as important as which RGB values they have
07:38<+glx>I usually use -p flags too
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07:46<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11329 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: if a NewGRF failed to load for some reason (like fatal errors), but it was a "compatible" NewGRF, it was shown with the compatible colour and not the not-loaded colour in the NewGRF list.
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08:45<skidd13>Anyone in here who would like to help me testing the mersenne random on multiplayer?
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08:49<@TrueBrain>skidd13: only if you made modifications
08:50<skidd13>TrueBrain: The thing is I want to get information where the game crashes, but if I use 2 clients at my machine this is not representative.
08:50<@TrueBrain>skidd13: it doesn't crash, it desyncs
08:50<@TrueBrain>or not even that
08:50<@TrueBrain>just different things happen
08:50<@TrueBrain>which you can reproduce just ifne
08:50<@TrueBrain>problem is: the seed is not synchorinzed
08:52<skidd13>No desycs when I play with 2 clients on one machine. I understand that the problem is that there is no sync between the seeds. But I want to check if the sync is really needed.
08:53<@Rubidium>skidd13: is it actually checking the MP seeds, or is it checking the never-changing seed for the other random?
08:53<@Rubidium>would explain why it doesn't desync
08:53<@TrueBrain>one way to see that it is needed: start a SP, save the map, fast forward (doing nothing) and remember what happens
08:53<@TrueBrain>load the savegame, and the same thing SHOULD happen
08:54<@TrueBrain>but with mersenna twister, it doesn't
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08:54<@TrueBrain>same as with 2 clients: join not at the same moment
08:54<@TrueBrain>wait a year
08:54<Eddi|zuHause2><Maedhros> hmm. my dbsetxl wagons seem to be using the wrong loading stages (coal instead of iron ore) <- i had that too, FS#1315 i think
08:54<@TrueBrain>and you will see differences
08:54<@TrueBrain>town-size, industrie-productions, ...
08:56<skidd13>TrueBrain: Ah I got what you mean. So every random we need a sync packet. :( Thats awful.
08:58<@TrueBrain>not every random
08:58<@TrueBrain>but at least when saving
08:58<@TrueBrain>and once in a while to check if we are in sync
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09:31<Wolf01>what does mean "partially protected" when an industry has a very low production level?
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09:42<@Rubidium>Wolf01: ask George
09:45<Wolf01>and again, all fishing grounds disappeared, they lasted no more than 30 years
09:47<+glx>Wolf01: grf controled
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09:49<Ammler>Wolf01: did you read ?
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10:01<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11330 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Add: OTTD version checking for NewGRFs. This allows NewGRFs to do something different for different versions of OpenTTD, like disabling it for too low versions or loading different graphics.
10:09<Wolf01>uhm, the sell all vehicles button for road vehicles don't work
10:09<Wolf01>i must sell 50 trucks by hand :/
10:19<Ammler>Wolf01: really? used that many times...
10:19<Wolf01>it doen't work ;_;
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10:21<Ammler>Wolf01: which revision do you use?
10:21<Wolf01>yesterday nightly
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10:22<Wolf01>with long vehicles
10:22<Wolf01>and serbian tram set, loaded before long vehicles, so that truck might be a tram instead
10:24<Ammler>I tried on trunk with 4 lv, send all to depot, and push sell all vehicels and they are gone
10:25<Maedhros>it doesn't work for me either
10:25<Maedhros>selling vehicles doesn't appear to give me any money, so the command thinks there's nothing to sell and doesn't do anything
10:26<Ammler>yeah, I have it now too...
10:27<@Rubidium>Maedhros: vehicles with no value whatsoever anymore?
10:27<Maedhros>Rubidium: they cost money to *buy*, just not to sell
10:28<@Rubidium>Maedhros: selling vehicles should give you some money as the vehicles should still have some value
10:28<@Rubidium>not the buy price, but something way less
10:29<Ammler>it happens with new vehicels
10:30<Maedhros>v->value appears to be 0
10:30<Ammler>it still works if there are old vehicels
10:32<@Rubidium>Maedhros: easy "fix" would be to max(1, v->value) in the CommandCost that is returned
10:32<@Rubidium>would be "fair" as vehicle will always have some value (the metal)
10:33<Ammler>Rubidium: why have new bought vehicels no value?
10:33<Maedhros>Rubidium: new trains also have a value of 0, so i think there's a bug here somewhere
10:34<Ammler>old vehcels have value
10:36<Eddi|zuHause2>anyone got experience with the ECS grfs in combination with alpine climate?
10:36<@Rubidium>maybe GetEngineProperty(engine, 0x17, rvi->base_cost) is returning 0
10:38<Maedhros>Rubidium: possibly, but this is happening with every vehicle i can buy - including original vehicles and dbsetxl vehicles, which don't use CB36
10:41<Maedhros>and anyway, v->value is 0 when the vehicle is being sold. it seems to be set correctly when it's bought though
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10:42<@Rubidium>the vehicle value is decreased every once in a while
10:46<Maedhros>v = new (v) RoadVehicle(); seems to set the value to 0
10:46<Maedhros>it's sensible just before, and then 0 afterwards
10:49<Maedhros>Rubidium: the problem is OverflowSafeInt - calling new RoadVehicle also calls the constructor for Money, which resets the value to 0
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11:07<sdziallas>hi there! i'm an editor of the german computer magazine c't and I had already requested the permission for putting openttd on our games cd.
11:07<+glx>wb sdziallas
11:08<sdziallas>but I currently have the problem, that one of my colleagues said that a given permission (since it is GPL) here on IRC is not enough
11:08<sdziallas>he said we would need a mail address to let our database send a link to a form there
11:09<sdziallas>in this form, someone could give us the permission and see how we are going to describe openttd
11:09<ln->you can distribute it under the terms of the GPL, you don't need a special permission.
11:10<ln->BUT you cannot distribute the data files, because they are commercial, so it won't be very usable.
11:10<Phazorx>err. #wwottdgd is looking for another artist for newgrf project now :)
11:10<sdziallas>yes, i see...
11:10<Phazorx>since TB got snow in temperate working :)
11:11<sdziallas>ok... again thank you for your responses...
11:12<Eddi|zuHause2>sdziallas: the only requirement the GPL has is that you give a way to retrieve the source code, so either you put the source bundles on the disk, or provide a link to them
11:13<Ammler>and a "good" howto, how to get the original grf...
11:14<ln->Eddi|zuHause2: actually, it is not clear whether providing a link is enough according to GPLv2.
11:14<sdziallas>yes! i have understood this.
11:14<sdziallas>i need to talk again to my colleague because we are maintaining the cd together
11:15<SpComb>Logs: (old: )
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11:15<Ammler>sdziallas: maybe you can ask atari to allow you to use the GRFs
11:15<ln->sdziallas: distributing openttd on CD kind of encourages software piratism, because obtaining those required data files legally is not very trivial.
11:16<sdziallas>Ammler: that would be a possibility
11:16<sdziallas>ln-: I mean if atari would give us the permission to distribute the original data files, then we could - following the GPL - put openTTD on our cd
11:17<sdziallas>i mean something like a bundle of the original and the openttd files...
11:17<@Bjarni>SpComb: your old log system appears to have unicode problems :s
11:18<SpComb>Bjarni: the old log system is deprecated and unsupported. The new one is... half-polished
11:19<SpComb>but you can still use PageUp/PageDown to scroll around, although it fails to mention that anywhere
11:19<Sacro>sdziallas: the problem with sending a letter to sign is that no one person can give that permission
11:20<sdziallas>Sacro: Ok. This is truely a problem, but in open source projects somehow understandable
11:20<ln->sdziallas: i suspect atari would not give such a permission, the first reason being that they would first have to find out whether they are the copyright holder and in the position to give the permission.
11:21<sdziallas>ln-: thats another problem
11:21<Ammler>but worth a try...
11:21<sdziallas>Ammler: and thats right ;-)
11:21<sdziallas>ok. I will talk to my colleague and afterwards, i will contact you here again on monday
11:22<sdziallas>and maybe we will contact atari... but i will what we can do
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11:44<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11331 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: do not misuse CommandCost for overflow safe stuff as Money supports that now too.
11:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: rubidium * r11332 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp):
11:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix: vehicles getting a value of 0 on construction.
11:45<CIA-5>OpenTTD: -Fix: assertion when selling vehicles.
11:52<CIA-5>OpenTTD: maedhros * r11333 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Train engines still had a value of 0.
11:54<hylje>mass commit
11:54<Eddi|zuHause2>if (its->grf_prop.override != INVALID_INDUSTRYTILE) {its = GetIndustryTileSpec(its->grf_prop.override);}
11:54<Eddi|zuHause2>what does that mean, and where does this come from?
11:54<Maedhros>Wolf01: mass selling vehicles should work again now :)
11:55<Eddi|zuHause2>it's part of a conflict...
11:55<+glx>Eddi|zuHause2: new indu
11:55<Eddi|zuHause2>yeah, but it's in the "mine" part, but not in the "official" part...
11:55<+glx>old newindu patch?
11:55<Eddi|zuHause2>might be
11:56<Eddi|zuHause2>is it safe to delete?
11:56<+glx>hmm show the full conflict, with surrounding lines
11:56<Maedhros>that depends on your other changes, but it should be in trunk in a different form already
11:58<Eddi|zuHause2>the new line was "IndustryBehaviour ind_behav = GetIndustrySpec(type)->behaviour;" (around line 1230)
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>the old line had a spelling mistake
11:59<Eddi|zuHause2>and those lines i showed
11:59<+glx>so just fix the spelling for now
12:00<+glx>and check svn diff later
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12:09<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11334 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Codechange: add hg detection to MSVC
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12:19<CIA-5>OpenTTD: glx * r11335 /trunk/ -Fix (r11148): only consider changes in src when detecting modified (M) version
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12:39<Wolf01>poor hamilton :( but he could try next year :)
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12:39<Wolf01>hello skidd13
12:40<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... something is odd... my saw mill accepts grain...
12:40<+glx>grf mixup
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>even worse, the forest produces grain ;)
12:41<Eddi|zuHause2>i was mixing the alpine grf with all the ECS stuff i could find
12:41<Wolf01>so there is no problem, pick up the grain at the forest and carry it to the sawmill
12:41<Wolf01>they might produce popcorns then
12:43<Eddi|zuHause2>is it normal that the brick works accepts coal only?
12:44<Eddi|zuHause2>i'm gonna try a pure temperate game first...
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12:44<Gonozal_VIII>coal only is normal
12:48<Eddi|zuHause2>i get weird output like "VF-VVV-***-***.***-***.***.***.***" in the tinning plant
12:48<hylje>:o ?
12:48<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause2: do you get that in TTDP too; I seem to remember that it does
12:49<Gonozal_VIII>tourist centre also does that
12:50<Gonozal_VIII>note that... something like that
12:50<Eddi|zuHause2>tourist center does a more senseful line
12:51<Eddi|zuHause2>ttrs says it is deactivated, but still i get the ttrs roads and buildings?
12:51<Gonozal_VIII>apply changes?
12:53<Eddi|zuHause2>i did not change anything, just opened the newgrf settings
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause2>dbg: [grf] [newgrf/ttrs3w.GRF:5322] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 116 sprites; try changing NewGRF order
13:02<+glx><Eddi|zuHause2> i get weird output like "VF-VVV-***-***.***-***.***.***.***" in the tinning plant <-- debug info
13:02<Eddi|zuHause2>so i should just ignore that...
13:02<Priski>heh, seems someone else was waching f1 :)
13:03<Gonozal_VIII>i get that line in the nightlies, in chrisin, with and without ttrs and other grfs, so it seems to be normal...
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13:05<Prof_Frink>Priski: Yes. What an excellent weekend for English sport.
13:05<Gonozal_VIII>only problem with the tinning plant was that it uses very little steel, only stores about 80 but that could be intended
13:07<Eddi|zuHause2>you don't need 1t of steel to pack 1t of fish ;)
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13:12<skidd13>Anyone tried the autoroad tool patch?
13:13<Maedhros>Prof_Frink: weekend? the rest of the week wasn't that great either...
13:14<Prof_Frink>Maedhros: I'm just aware of 3 days, 3 Massive fails
13:14<Priski>Prof_Frink, better yet for finnish =)
13:15<Maedhros>Prof_Frink: we also lost to the Russians on wednesday
13:15<hylje>massive failure
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13:15<Priski>i'm guessin tomorrow news here is all about räikkönen all day long... :P
13:17<Phazorx>lost to russians?
13:18<Prof_Frink>Russia 2-1 England on Fri
13:18<Maedhros>that was wednesday :p
13:21<Wolf01>compile farm failed?
13:21<Eddi|zuHause2>why are the fishing stations called "oil field"?
13:22<@TrueBrain>you can make oil from fish
13:22<@Rubidium>cause there is no way to "modify" station names from NewGRFs
13:24<Prof_Frink>Was it? I'm losing days.
13:26<Eddi|zuHause2>so, how do i start with this mess of industries?
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13:27<Gonozal_VIII>coal to power plant is easy
13:27|-|LeviathNL [] has joined #openttd
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13:28<Gonozal_VIII>or sand to glass works... sand pits have huge output
13:29<Gonozal_VIII>and i like glass planes :-)
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13:34<Wolf01>why compile farm failed?
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13:36<Eddi|zuHause2>look in the log?
13:37|-|Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
13:38<LeviathNL>Is adding carriages to articulated vehicles possible in ttdp or is it planned for ottd?
13:38<Maedhros>umm, it's possible in ttdp, but not in ottd at the moment
13:38<@TrueBrain>now that is a strange strange question
13:38<@TrueBrain>the 'or' part is weird
13:39|-|Grey_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:39<LeviathNL>-or +and/or
13:39<Zr40>TrueBrain: logical or? :)
13:39<@TrueBrain>Zr40: hehe
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13:57<Eddi|zuHause2>that's weird... the wagon does not offer refitting to ore...
13:59<Ammler>something broken with makefile?
14:00<Eddi|zuHause2>alpine+dbset+ecs stuff
14:01<Eddi|zuHause2>it offers all kinds of refit options, except ore
14:01<Ammler>its ok, tested with new nightly
14:02<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause2: do you use dbxl_ecs?
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>it seems to work if i put alpine below the ECS stuff
14:02<Eddi|zuHause2>but then the snowline is suddenly much lower
14:09<LeviathNL>does MBs alpine climate work in ottd?
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14:10<Maedhros>LeviathNL: yes
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14:19<Sacro> I belive there to be an... issue
14:20<Sacro>or basically... tis fyucked
14:20<Sacro>hey Farden
14:21<Farden>I've got a little problem
14:21<Farden>the compil for win32 failed
14:21<Farden>how can I play?
14:21<Sacro>a) another version
14:22<Sacro>b) fix and compile it yourself
14:22<Sacro>seeing as nobody else much will have tongiht nightly
14:22<Sacro>i see it as not worht bothering about
14:22<Farden>I don't know how to fix and compile
14:22<Farden>and I need this version to play at #openttdcoop
14:24<Ammler>Farden: if there is no revision avaialbe, we can't play either
14:24|-|Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:24[~]Franco_Begbie is away, showerin, (log\on pager\on)
14:24|-|Franco_Begbie changed nick to Franco_Begbie|off
14:24<Sacro>Franco_Begbie|off: please don't spam the channel
14:25<Farden>who should I spam to get a correct nightly?^^
14:27<Maedhros>well, spamming anyone isn't going to get it to you any faster :p
14:27<Farden>yeah, I think so...^^
14:33|-|Gono_ping_timeout changed nick to Gonozal_VIII
14:34<Ammler>I have a working w32 bin, someone needs?
14:35<Eddi|zuHause2>the new foundations are great
14:35<Eddi|zuHause2>but i still can't get the correct temperate foundations in alpine
14:35<Farden>I need Ammler
14:36<Ammler>I'll pack it...
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14:40<Maedhros>good night
14:40|-|Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:42|-|Franco_Begbie|off changed nick to Franco_Begbie
14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/slope.h:347: Foundation FlatteningFoundation(Slope): Assertion `!IsSteepSlope(s)' failed.
14:45<Eddi|zuHause2>(while doing nothing)
14:45<Wolf01>a city or the ai?
14:46<Eddi|zuHause2>ai disabled
14:46<Eddi|zuHause2>town probably
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15:14<CIA-5>OpenTTD: truelight * r11336 /trunk/ -Fix r11330: '#' means comment in gmake, so don't use it in seds
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15:28<Eddi|zuHause2>why does autoslope not work with transmitters?
15:29<@Rubidium>cause transmitters need very solid ground
15:29<@Rubidium>and because it's the way it was intended to be
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause2>hm... it also doesn't work with (TTRS) statues
15:35<Eddi|zuHause2>i can live with the transmitters, but this is kind of a big limitation
15:35<@Rubidium>well... if statues can only be build on flat ground, then you can't terraform under them, as it is intended to be build only on flat ground
15:36<@Rubidium>it's a limitation as designed by the author of TTRS
15:37<Gonozal_VIII>"Statues on slopes (Added to trunk r11069)"
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15:37<@Rubidium>different kind of statues
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15:38<Eddi|zuHause2>i can't even destroy it...
15:39<Eddi|zuHause2>(too low ratings i assume)
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15:49<dihedral>i see towns with about 5 houses
15:49<dihedral>they have a pop of over 4,000,000,000
15:52<dihedral>that map is currently loaded on #wwottdgd
15:52<+glx>they have <0 pop
15:53<dihedral>now that should not happen right?
15:53<dihedral>esp. not with 6 - 8 houses
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15:55<dihedral>Phazorx believes it's because he changed the dates of a saved game
15:56<Phazorx>yes negative pop
15:56<Phazorx>not sure why but only thing i did is moved dates
15:58<Gonozal_VIII>how many towns are there, that list looks very long
15:58[~]Sacro screams
15:59<Phazorx>~400 i tihnk
15:59<dihedral>21 with that population
15:59<dihedral>world pop is also odd :-)
16:00<Eddi|zuHause2>it is shorter than my industry list
16:00<Eddi|zuHause2>and they are set to very low
16:00<dihedral>and the sorting is not affected (i.e. < 0 pop at top of list)
16:00<dihedral>though stations do get quite a bunch of passangers :-)
16:01<Eddi|zuHause2>with TTRS i get rediculous amounts of passengers
16:01<dihedral>for a town that should have less than 0 pop?
16:01<dihedral>any amount is rediculous
16:02<Gonozal_VIII>that's true.. very easy to get money by connecting some random towns with a circular line and let a bunch of trains run around
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16:34<@Bjarni>Could not connect: Too many connections
16:34<@Bjarni>I guess that's what you get for posting the link on IRC
16:35<ln->"BMW Sauber and Williams are under investigation of the Brazilian Grand Prix race stewards, has learned.
16:35<ln->Representatives of both teams were summoned to the stewards' office after their cars failed post-race inspection at Brazil.
16:35<ln->The problem is believed to be in the tempature of the fuel samples taken from the cars of Williams's Nico Rosberg and BMW Sauber's Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld.
16:35<ln->The trio finished the race in fourth, fifth and sixth respectively.
16:35<ln->More details to follow..."
16:36<@Bjarni>the temperature?
16:36|-|skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
16:37<dihedral>TrueBrain: thank you for the snow in temperate patch :-)
16:37<@TrueBrain>yw :)
16:38[~]dihedral greets skidd13
16:38<dihedral>i am quite enjoying to see the shape this is taking :-P
16:38|-|Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:39<Gonozal_VIII>i don't need snow ingame, there is enough here in rl
16:39[~]skidd13 greets back :)
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16:39<dihedral>TrueBrain: do you think it could be used to make 'desert' tiles useable in temperate map too?
16:40<dihedral>i.e. for the africa part of the european map?
16:40<Phazorx>dihedral: err no :)
16:41<skidd13>dihedral: I had a look at the wwottdgd map. What about oversea traffic?
16:41<dihedral>limited ships (perhaps 10 per company)
16:41<dihedral>limited plances
16:41<@TrueBrain>dihedral: lol :) How would that work? :p
16:41<Gonozal_VIII>new climate: world... snow in the north and south, desert in the middle^^
16:41<@TrueBrain>dihedral: how would it know where to put those tiles?
16:42<dihedral>i dont know
16:42<dihedral>makr them with a flag :-P
16:42<@TrueBrain>it would be possible to make tileX > 1000 and tileY > 1000 desert tile
16:42<@Rubidium>desert is easy ;)
16:42<@TrueBrain>if you can make it a rectangle
16:42<dihedral>hmmm... with transition?
16:42<dihedral>then the lower 300 tiles
16:43<dihedral>1200 tiles long
16:43<dihedral>everthing in that rectangle that is not africa is actually water :-D
16:43<@TrueBrain>and width?
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16:45<@TrueBrain>dihedral: it will make spain desert too
16:45<@Bjarni>dihedral: I can see my house from here :D
16:45<dihedral>thats funny Bjarni
16:45<dihedral>i can see my house from here too
16:46<@Bjarni>nice work so far
16:46|-|Grey [] has joined #openttd
16:46<ln->(copenhagen mentioned behind my previous link)
16:47<@TrueBrain>dihedral: do you mind of 30% of Spain becomes desert?
16:47<@Rubidium>it actually is a desert ;)
16:48<@Bjarni>ln-: that's both good and bad because now people will stop protecting themselves :(
16:48<dihedral>TrueBrain: if there is a transition from water to desert, and not just straight desert, then no
16:49<ln->Bjarni: they have stopped already.
16:49<@Bjarni>good point
16:49<@Bjarni>but it will just make that problem worse
16:50<@TrueBrain>dihedral: I have an idea
16:50<ln->Bjarni: there's one recent case in finland where some man has deliberately had unprotected sex with over 30 women although he knew he was hiv-positive.
16:50<dihedral>TrueBrain: i like it when you say that
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>"are you thinking what i am thinking?" :p
16:52|-|Greyscale [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:54<dihedral>TrueBrain: what is your idea?
16:54<@TrueBrain>dihedral: you will have to wait :p
16:54|-|Franco_Begbie [] has quit [Quit: if (horse.getOrigin() == SOUVENIR) horse.teeth.lookAt (false);]
16:55[~]dihedral tries to be patient
16:55<dihedral>TrueBrain: patience is a virtue
16:55<dihedral>and virtue was never one of my virtues
16:55|-|Farden [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>err... i hate this new log thingy...
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>how do i scroll back in there?
16:56<Phazorx>we can have everythg south of some tile = sand/desert
16:56<@TrueBrain>hmm, first attempt: failure
16:57<Phazorx>TrueBrain: actualy for desert
16:57<Phazorx>2 criterias would be nice
16:57<Phazorx>hieght and coordinates
16:58<@TrueBrain>we have an ice age!!!
16:58<@TrueBrain>all hell froze over
16:58<@TrueBrain>looks cool :p
16:59<dihedral>i am for global warming...
16:59<@TrueBrain>instead of desert, you get snow
17:00<@TrueBrain>re-usage of the same sprites
17:02<dihedral>tell that the guy in the forums
17:02<Phazorx>ahh i thought you knew TrueBrain
17:03<@TrueBrain>bah, I have an exam tomorrow
17:03<@TrueBrain>you guys are not helping :p
17:03<Phazorx>dihedral: get the 11336M and join .dev
17:03<Phazorx>we donty want you to fail
17:03<Phazorx>cuz gthen u'll have less time to fix bugs we find
17:03<Phazorx>so sleep time start now :)
17:03<@TrueBrain>good, neither do I, so that is settled :)
17:03<dihedral>heh - i shall go to bed too
17:04<@TrueBrain>dihedral: no
17:04<@TrueBrain>you have to wait
17:04<@TrueBrain>for like 5 more minutes
17:04<Phazorx>dihedral: join .dev 1st plz
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>can i have that map? i want to double check the cities and make suggestions
17:04<dihedral>where do i get the win binary?
17:05<Phazorx>map is up
17:05<Phazorx>on #wwottdgd server
17:05<Phazorx>join that chan
17:05<Phazorx>you will see
17:06<Phazorx>all you need to get for GRFs and revision
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>see... that is a bigger problem for me than for you to give a link to the savegame
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>(or dcc send, but that might fail, depending on setup)
17:07<@TrueBrain>darn, I can't find the correct sprite-offset
17:09|-|ln- changed nick to LN-
17:11<@TrueBrain>how many sprites are there in trgtr? :p
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>grfcodec -d?
17:11<@TrueBrain>I need trg1r of course p
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17:15<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: what problem?
17:15|-|stillunk1own [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause>problem is the wrong word...
17:17<Sacro>anyone here from finland?,3:2001:0:0,4:34:0:0:0;4:36:0:0:0;4:35:508:1:2007-10-22,104:35:493562,1:0:0:0:0:0:
17:17[~]Sacro needs a translation
17:18|-|Stoffe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:18|-|TrainzStoffe changed nick to Stoffe
17:20<LN->haha, sacro pasteing turun sanomat links, that's new
17:21<LN->short translation: that article claims the rumors about fuel temperatures are not true at all, and everything's fine.
17:21<LN->but then, this one is updated as well;
17:22<Sacro>Could not connect: Too many connections
17:22<Sacro>Could not connect: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'murray' (111)
17:22<LN->"The FIA has confirmed that the fuel temperatures of the BMW Sauber and Williams cars were outside the regulations during the course of the Brazilian Grand Prix. ..."
17:22<Sacro>what what what?
17:23<@TrueBrain>dihedral: special for you:
17:23<@TrueBrain>took a bit longer then I hoped :p
17:23|-|Osai changed nick to Osai^zZz
17:23<Phazorx>TrueBrain: is it compatible with snow patch ?
17:23<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: yes
17:24<dihedral>TrueBrain: sweet little monkey
17:24<@TrueBrain>it isn't real desert btw, FYI
17:24<Phazorx>that's cool then
17:24<@TrueBrain>just a GUI thing
17:24<dihedral>hown on earth did you do that
17:24<Phazorx>TrueBrain: sprite replacement based on coords?
17:24<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: exactly :)
17:24<@TrueBrain>fake, works only for this map
17:24<@TrueBrain>but he, who cares
17:24<Phazorx>TrueBrain: can it be "modified in enidtor
17:24<Phazorx>and how it works with frams?
17:24<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: no way!
17:24<Phazorx>or towns
17:24<@TrueBrain>farms die
17:25<@TrueBrain>towns I am looking into now
17:25<@TrueBrain>and I need to solve a bit of logic
17:25<Phazorx>you should go to bed :)
17:25<@TrueBrain> if (TileX(tile) > 580 && TileX(tile) < 1675 && TileY(tile) > 1720) { if (TileX(tile) <= 1250 || (TileX(tile) > 1250 && TileY(tile) > 1832)) {
17:25<Sacro>In such a case, Hamilton would be crowned the world championship.
17:25<Sacro>not the champion, the championship
17:26<dihedral>i am off to bed
17:26<Phazorx>TrueBrain: 2 rectangulars are necessary?
17:26<@TrueBrain>night dihedral
17:26<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: yes, else spain is desert :p
17:26<dihedral>thanks a log TrueBrain
17:26<@TrueBrain>it is fun, for a chance ;)
17:26<LN->Sacro: that would cause reactions in finland.
17:27<Sacro>LN-: and the UK
17:27<Phazorx>TrueBrain: how about simplier case for you
17:27|-|DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
17:27<Sacro>and Germany
17:27<LN->Sacro: and italy
17:27<Phazorx>see great plains on very S edhe
17:27<Sacro>Williams is UK, BMW is German
17:27<Phazorx>which are hight 6 and 7
17:27<LN->Ferrari is Italian
17:27<Phazorx>these are only ones that should be desert
17:27<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: the rest you want temperate?
17:28<Phazorx>i tihnk that'll be mroe proper
17:28<Phazorx>do sometihn like that X >1500 && height >5
17:28<Phazorx>that puts sand in sahara
17:28<Phazorx>but keeps coast green
17:29<Phazorx>perhaps toy with hight a bit
17:29<LN->Sacro: only deciding about the championship in a court afterwards is bad publicity for the whole F1...
17:29|-|dihedral [] has quit [Quit: so long and thanks for all the fish]
17:30<@TrueBrain>dunno, not really pretty
17:30<Phazorx>hmm.. hight--
17:31<Phazorx>it is close that it whould be in affrica tho
17:31<Phazorx>but problem is we miss tropical tiles
17:31<@TrueBrain>height-- does it :)
17:31<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: which tiles you mean exactly?
17:31<Phazorx>well thewse that are too green next to decert now
17:32<@TrueBrain>lol :)
17:32<@TrueBrain>we can in fact fix that too..... :)
17:32<Phazorx>more rules ?
17:32<Phazorx>ugly kinda
17:32<Phazorx>too much effort for one map :)
17:32<Phazorx>but it would look sweet
17:32<@TrueBrain>who cares? You want it to be fun? :p
17:33<Phazorx>well are you having fun YET?
17:33<@TrueBrain>I do now :)
17:33<Phazorx>instead of sleeping apaprently
17:33<Phazorx>do as you wish tho
17:33|-|DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:34<Phazorx>this thing is gonnabe 20+ patyches
17:34<Phazorx>and it MIGHT actualy work for an hour
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17:35<Phazorx>btw.. Leiden is on the coast?
17:35<@TrueBrain>Phazorx: almost
17:35<@TrueBrain>good enough anyway
17:36<Phazorx>you can make yourself a palm in back yard, hardcoded :)
17:36<Phazorx>palmtree i mean
17:37<Phazorx>patch i really miss is a giant minimap screenshot
17:38<skidd13>good night folks
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17:39<Phazorx>thats height 4 ?
17:39<@TrueBrain>4 + slopes, yes
17:39<Phazorx>perhaps 5+ slopes ?
17:40<Phazorx>doesnt matter that much tho
17:40<Phazorx>and i sghould not mess to much with dihedral's idea
17:41<@TrueBrain>why not? :)
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17:55<Eddi|zuHause>fake! :p
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18:07<@TrueBrain>night all
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18:54<Phazorx> << that bug annoys me
18:55<Phazorx>apparently if townds remove hospitals/prisons with TTRS - their pop goes way down
19:09<Rafagd>first time i've saw a underflow
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19:15<Phazorx>it is the overflow of unsigned int :)
19:16<Phazorx>bizzare tho
19:16<Phazorx>i'm just recreating towns where that bug appears
19:16<Phazorx>and not sure if it fixes the prob
19:17<Rafagd>underflow, in this case
19:17<Rafagd>0 -> unsigned int max
19:18<Rafagd>TTRS is that tool to remove anything, including industries and cities?
19:23<Phazorx>ttrs is total town replacement set
19:23<Phazorx>a grf tha makes cities looks nice and vidid
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19:31<Rafagd>Phazorx: i think its not so hard to patch this
19:32<Rafagd>if (pop - hospital_pop > pop) { pop = 1; /* or 0 */ }
19:32<Rafagd>not exactly with these names... =\
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>q: is there some kind of trick to make road vehicles split into multiple lorry bays more efficiently?
19:33<Gonozal_VIII>trick as in station design
19:33<Ammler>good night all
19:34<Phazorx>Gonozal_VIII: somewhat
19:35<Phazorx>check that post
19:36<Phazorx>Ammler: gnight
19:46<Rafagd>amazing grf, it kinda bug on turning but it's really good
19:48<Gonozal_VIII>i tried with all pathfinders now but somehow the trucks seem to prefer a single bay and line up behind that, only sometimes a truck or two uses another bay
19:50<Gonozal_VIII>does the distance of the route matter? this doesn't happen on the other routes and they are shorter
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19:59<Digitalfox>After a big google search i'm confused.. Well emule supports gzip and uses it to compress transfers, but i can't find info on what about torresnt's with azureus or utorrent, if they support or use gzip... Can someone enlight me please.. :\
20:00<Gonozal_VIII>torrents support any filetype afaik
20:00<Digitalfox>no no my friend, i'm talking of transfer compression
20:01<Digitalfox>not file compression :)
20:01<Gonozal_VIII>then i don't know...
20:01<Digitalfox>you see emule uses gzip for file transfer
20:01<Gonozal_VIII>maybe some clients
20:01<Digitalfox>but i can't get any info about torrents clients
20:02<Digitalfox>i'll keep googling.. :\
20:05<Rafagd>i think there is no compression
20:05<Rafagd>at least they do not compress the saved file
20:06<Rafagd>i think the only compression they may use on sending, and uncompress on receive...
20:08<Digitalfox>Well emule uses TCP compression, so you want to download a 600MB file and you only have to download 500MB in some cases
20:08<Digitalfox>But i'm not 100% sure on how this works, because i think and may be wrong that it was gzip on transfer
20:09<Digitalfox>Since i'm no programmer, and don't know how the lib's of gzip work..
20:10<Digitalfox>but never mind, i was only tring to find out if torrent's could use this kind of compression..
20:11<Gonozal_VIII>most files are compressed anyways
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20:14<Digitalfox>yes but not all..
20:15<Digitalfox>anyway time to sleep, work day tommorow..
20:15<Digitalfox>good night everyone.. :)
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20:39<alphax>Hi! I have a souce code question - how to get the cargo name?
20:40<+glx>cargo types have a name field
20:40<+glx>this field is a StringID
20:41<alphax>I am try to get the cargo name by following code:
20:41<alphax>for (int i=0; i<NUM_CARGO; i++)
20:41<alphax>SetDParam(0, GetCargo(i)->name);
20:41<alphax>GetString(buf, ?, lastof(buf));
20:41<alphax>But, I dont known which string should be passed as 2'nd parameter for the GetString function. Can you tell me?
20:42<Gonozal_VIII>why the loop?
20:42<Gonozal_VIII>i = NUM_CARGO; ?
20:42<+glx>just use GetString(buf, GetCargo(i)->name, lastof(buf))
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20:44<alphax>there are also something else in the loop which I am not listed
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20:49<alphax>Why the development team does not provide a more directly function like GetCargoName/GetTownName/GetStationName/GetVehName?
20:50<alphax>Rather use GetString(buf, cargo->name, lastof(buf)); ?
20:55<fjb>Hm, ist it possible to join arvs? I would like to make some longer trams.
21:05<@Belugas>alphax: one of the reasons is the lang that can change
21:05<@Belugas>plus, it serves no purpose to hold such a string regrading the logic of the system.
21:06<@Belugas>youcannot do anything with a string, other than display it
21:07<Rafagd>what about
21:08<Rafagd>GetCargoName(type cargo) { return GetString(buf, cargo -> name, lastof(buf)); }
21:08<Rafagd>or something like this?
21:09<+glx>why do you need cargo name?
21:10<Rafagd>alphax: need
21:10<Rafagd>alphax needs*
21:10<@Belugas>ok, then, why does alphax need cargo name?
21:10<alphax>I am making a management plugin into opentd (my private modification)
21:10<+glx>fjb: no
21:11<@Belugas>alphax, cool, but it does not tell us why you still need it
21:11<fjb>glx: Thanks. Is that feature on the todo list, or is it not considered useful?
21:12<alphax>display the cargo name
21:13<@Belugas>then, what glx told you is the way to go
21:13<@Belugas>GetString(buf, GetCargo(i)->name, lastof(buf))
21:14<Rafagd>Belugas: he wants an alias function
21:14<@Belugas>that, or keep on using the "SetDParam(0, GetCargo(i)->name);-DawString system"
21:14<@Belugas>define alias?
21:14<Rafagd>define can do this, but it's so... define... =\
21:15<@Belugas>please, tell me what ou mean by "alias"
21:15<Rafagd>GetCargoName(type cargo) { return GetString(buf, cargo -> name, lastof(buf)); }
21:15<Rafagd>something like this
21:15<+glx>you need to manage the buffer
21:16<Rafagd>this buf is the return string?
21:16<Rafagd>if it is, he should use this instead of spamming GetString on the code anyway
21:17<+glx>GetString is only used when needed
21:17<alphax>Not only I want to call this function, maybe others also want to call this function, we all use a GetString(buf, cargo -> name, lastof(buf));
21:18<+glx>usually you just need to use DrawString
21:18<Rafagd>i think i misunderstood what he wants...
21:18<+glx>I use GetString when I want to printf things
21:20<alphax>I am "plugin" a delphi compiled dll into the openttd, because the window system used in the openttd is too difficlt to manipulate
21:20<alphax>it just my private modification
21:20<+glx>window system is easy once you understand the logic behind it
21:21<+glx>but I agree it's not that easy
21:21<@Belugas>so within your own plugin wrapper, define the "alias" regarding the GetCArgoName you desire. would be enough
21:22<alphax>I known
21:25<+glx>the hardest part in the window system is the window definition (the table)
21:26<+glx>but once you understand how it works it's easy
21:30<@Belugas>but i fail to understand the realtion between the cargo name and the window system... true, we do not have your code to evaluate ;)
21:31<@Belugas>btw, i do understand delphi quite well, since it is my language at work
21:33<alphax>I can not use Drawstring in the delphi form, so I am want a cargo name return from openttd, and display in delphi form.
21:34<Rafagd>Belugas: i think he is trying to make some cargo management window... so he wants to print the name on the window
21:35<alphax>Not just cargo, also station, traffic
21:37<+glx>will be easier to add a window in ottd ;)
21:37<@Belugas>ho... ok... so, basically, you want some kind of management system, but since you do not nderstand the window system of ottd, you prefer to add a dll support to it, do it in delphi and have all hte strings exportable as strings...
21:37<@Belugas>big job
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21:38<@Belugas>glx is right, you should do it in ottd, a lot less headache
21:38<+glx>ottd uses strings only in display code
21:39<+glx>all the code uses StringID when doing "string" stuff internally
21:39<Rafagd>and if you use delphi, i think it wont patch to linux
21:40<+glx>anyway it's time to sleep for me
21:40<+glx>good night all
21:40<alphax>good night
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21:41<@Belugas>night glx
21:41<@Belugas>too late
21:43<Rafagd>Belugas: give him "good night" when he join tomorrow... =\
21:43<@Belugas>as i know him, he will join at about the same time i will, so ;)
21:45<fjb>Good night
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21:45<Rafagd>Belugas: maybe he is just a bot running in your pc =(
21:47<alphax>I want to working now, thanks for all help. Bye
21:47<@Belugas>very unlikely :) my irc client is on my work station at work
21:47<@Belugas>bye alphax, and good luck
21:47|-|alphax [alphax@] has quit []
21:48<@Belugas>i'm connected to it from home
21:48<@Belugas>so the ghost would be quite a network savvy one ;)
21:50<Rafagd>Belugas: then he may be your long lost evil twin!
21:51<@Belugas>a good companion, that's for sure...
21:52<@Belugas>and on those notes, it is time for me to get to meet my bed
21:52<@Belugas>time to crash
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22:12<DaleStan>Belugas: "0.6.0 (release) 0608000" EINSUFFICIENTDIGITS. Also, documentation says 80000h is "added", not "used instead".
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 22 00:00:44 2007